The chili pepper is the pride of New Mexico, but they have a problem with their beloved crop. There just aren’t enough workers to pick the peppers. Picking chili peppers can be especially grueling work even compared to other crops. So most workers are skipping chili harvests in favor of other sources of income. As a result, small family farms have been planting less and less chili every year in favor of other less-labor intensive crops. So, scientists are trying to find ways to automate the harvest, but picking chilis turned out to be a tough job for a robot.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is ninety. Nine percent, invisible, Roman Moors summer. The governors Mexico in Colorado got into a fight on Twitter words were had umbrage was taken, but the fight was over. Tax incentives or highway funding or water rights. Instead, it all go down to this cholera those governments have the gall to insult who Mexico's pride and joy its chile peppers the latest war of words comes after Colorado's governor made them insulting comments about our chile. Colorado's governor Jared Pulleys is claiming that chile and blow is better than ours. Naturally, makes goes governor, had no choice but to respond in kind this morning, Governor Michel Lou, gruesome, defended our precious crop on twitter. Saying quote: if weblogs work any good. It would have been on national shelves before now in New Mexico, Chile numbers are everywhere resources.
Right. Jellies hang from every door where they are promptly on license plates. Chile, pepper cheeseburgers, are part of the standard menu at Mcdonald's. I can report I'm not very good go remains the only state in the union with an official state question red or green its chile season right now in New Mexico, which means that the states, Chile, pepper price, is wrapped up to the next level, that's reported rose Evelyn host of the flash forward. Podcast there are chile, scented candles for sale. The roads are dotted with big white signs. That's a fresh chile. This way and every parking lot seems to have a roast ongoing, tumbling, green and red chile, peppers over a fire and in September nineteen on an incredibly windy day and security. The new mixer Chile Association, hosted the first ever New Mexico chile taste off and when I asked farmers at the chilly taste off about,
rivalry with Colorado. They basically just laughed now Colorado doesn't scare us bring it. She asked you're, worried about Colorado, Chile, or not at all. I'm gonna call out of her something it will be for Chile. I might go skiing, but probably not even that amidst oldest Colorado, drenched arguing the organizers of the chilly taste off, also crowned the chilly queen of New Mexico. You, rather for Your royal chile, Highness is nine. Five years old June has been, in the business since she was a little girl when her father carried her around in the fields. In a pepper sack, there's even a chilly, Bert variety named after her. The miss and she wasn't going to let a little wind stop her from talking up New Mexico, Chile or Chile is a bitter taste in anywhere else and I'm not bride. You there's no body
taxes, Arizona, California and even Colorado can't beat came readers, Kate leaders, we have some then nobody's gonna theirs. Secret ingredient to New Mexico and Chile. Peppers. Unless you count tradition, new Mexicans, June have been growing their own varieties for over a hundred years, mostly on small. Can we farms that remain dedicated to this one, but love of crop for generations? But despite these, where's pride in their peppers. All is not well in Miss journeys, Kingdom Mexico's Chile, maybe The best in the world for a while. Now the chilly business has been in trouble New Mexico Do we? Farmers have a problem, one that might
to enforce them to choose between tradition and technology? When I started reporting this story, everybody told me I had to talk to a guy named Glenn Dragons. They told me that Glenn was a great cheer. Friendly guy, but when I first called him about chile- and I asked- is this Glenn he answered? What's left of him- get really started about the old till it is beyond some. It was easy. I miss him, help was easy. Everybody made money, we stayed drunk most of the time. I mean we had a good time at it. It's not near fine anymore. Glenn runs until he farm called five star Chile and Sakharov New Mexico, and he says that every year things get a little more bleak for the business. It's not that nobody wants to buy jelly
nation wide demand for Chile. Peppers is at an all time high and yet the economics of being a chilly farmer they're, just not working out it's been while this year it was bad weather. It's more than that. It's like the perfect storm came together. We had bad weather. You have few reform First, you have fewer acres to make matters worse. Chile grown in Mexico is often talked over. The border labelled as New Mexico, Chile and sold for far cheaper than the farmers in the state can compete with, but Glenn says that there is one thing in particular the has him and other chile. Farmers, especially worried Julie, former's Borgias to bad weather too. Petition to all that other stuff, but no, even if they have perfect, whether perfect crop of to ease and no competition at all. They still have a problem. There just are enough workers to pick the pepper
we, we hire everybody that comes out everybody when I visited on his farm. He had eight workers out in the field, picking he's as on a good year in the past. He would have had thirty, mostly from Mexico. They would go to one ranch house work a few days for them. Their freedom take care of him than this in that go to the next franchising. They would eventually give here That has happened in years ten years ago. He used to wake up in the morning at the start of chilly season and have the thirty guys he needed standing in his driveway. They just show that Europe is not that they know where to go in there, not China, it's not just Glenn, and it's not just the chilly industry. Farms across the United States are reporting
shortages of labour since two thousand to the number of immigrants coming to the United States to work in agriculture has dropped by seventy five percent in Calif. One survey found that fifty six percent of farmers were unable to hire and of workers the number of people emigrating to the. U S for farming, actually been going down since two thousand aid like when you call me crashed here that Sarah Taber, a crop scientist based in Faye, will North Carolina and she said, The great recession scrambled the familiar labour paradigm in which migrant workers would arrive in the. U S, looking for work on farms, a lot of folks were like wait. I can actually do both for myself to stay in Mexico. Increasingly potential foreign workers are staying put in their home countries to work in places like call centres and zero point out that the children of immigrants who came to the? U S and went into agriculture
they're, not following suit, so the folks who already came to the US from labour they're getting older and our kids are not going into that third there here to make their lives better in their like. Please, kids, don't go into picking Chile's it's, not even that this work doesn't pay well it does farm labourers in New Mexico and Chile fields can make double the states minimum wage. They can make nearly twice as much picking Chile as they could working at a chile's restaurant, but they still don't want it. Do it in port because picking chile peppers can be especially gruelling work even compared to other crops till he plants grow the ground and the Chile's themselves often sit close to the stem nestled deep inside the bush. So workers have to over in the hot sun, get them all this. While wearing gloves to protect their hands from the oil that give Chile's their characteristic heat and green, and shall he peppers the kind
Glenn and a lot of other New Mexico. Chile farmers rely on our especially hard to pick a green, Chile's are just unripe red Chile's, which means that the seeds in sight of them aren't ready to Germany, yet the planned doesn't want to give its fruits up. So it's won't. Let go without a fight and we hire people every year like It isn't here that we need a job and all I can do that, and a quick by noon gets too it's not the money, they don't want stoop over and big chile or o weeds. They won't do it. I mean I'm, not gonna. Do it? Are you in order to stay afloat, small family farms, that glance had been planting less and less chile every year in favour of other less labour intensive crops. In nineteen. Ninety seven new most cordially farmers planted over
thirty thousand acres. Last year there was only eighty four hundred and now some younger farmers are opting not to plant Chile at all, as glance showed me around his farm. He pointed out into the distance where his son was driving a tractor raking up, hey you don't take over after you retire saying, but he won't do Chile, I wanna. He sees what I go through. He will go through it. I mean what we have we made years ago. We haven't done anything in the last sixty years. Didn't you ever get back to back now, you'll, see how the the the how Glenn genuinely doesn't know the answer to that question. Do a lot of other chile farmers, but if you ve been paying attention to almost
every other industry. You may be wondering why can't Glenn just get a machine to pick his peppers. Withdraw it wouldn't be the first time a machine is replaced human hands in the field especially as there are Taber point out in a country with abundant land and scarce labour. It's always been very easy. If you, Only one person in United States to get your own land and As a result, you could get way more land, then you can actually work yourself pretty easily. So then, what do with it in the south landowners cultivated more land than they could on their own through the use of slavery. After slavery was outlawed the scene, landowners increasingly rented their land out on unfair terms to sharecroppers and in the north to tenant farmers who would harm, things like green, so work. It needs to be really really super labour intensive. He had cut it by hand yet dry, it staggered fresh. It know all that. That was all done my hand but boom in the
Getting eighties commercial production began on a combine harvester, a machine that could do it all at once. That's why they call it a combine combine. Our research allowed landowners to harvest all their green themselves, no extra help required. So they kicked off the tenant farmers off the land and kept the profits for themselves. The american agricultural industry has been busy automating things ever since in nineteen thirty, six, the first practical cotton picking machine was demonstrated in Mississippi that same year, patent was filed for the first fully automatic, hey bachelor and in nineteen sixty three team? At you see Davis, released a machine that good harvest tomatoes? More recently, machines have started harvesting everything from olives to potatoes to carrots. So why not Chile's? Well, it turns out it's not
he's a for a machine to pick a pepper in the beginning. I was definitely are the optimism of being new added, so I think I ve had our growers asked me that, oh how long- and I think I would sit back then five years- and I have to look at this- is deafening Walker, a crop scientist at New Mexico State University who, for the past fifteen years, has been leading a team working on the holy GRAIL. EL of Chile's figuring out away to plug a green chile, pepper off a plant with a machine when stuff, we first started automatic harvesters ripe, ready to pick red sleeper there's were already in the process of being perfected, but she wanted to figure out a way to have them. Best Green Chile, the gun farmers Thy Glenn, reliable Stephanie, says that in
those early days, she tried out a bunch of different red chile. Harvesters end match them against common varieties of green job, but the results were disastrous when they came up against the unripe green peppers with their tough stems and their hard to reach locations, it was like the machine just didn't I want to do instead of picking the peppers off the planet, the machine would literally rip up the entire planet and try to stop it in its mouth. Like some kind of mechanical toddler, choking toy there was one I remember the plants are very, very large and where she but the machine is based, seduces tearing up the plants and shredding another machine they tested had the opposite problem, both very gentle combing mechanism through the clouds were broken, but it was so gentle. We left like worth more than forty percent of the fruit on the field Stephanie inner team tried machine after machine, but none
we're a match for the chilly about the successful crop. Automation of the past might make you think that the chilly pepper is an outlier, a stubborn hold out against two centuries of agricultural and technological progress. But in fact Chile is just one of many crops that machines still can't harvest as well as humans. If at all asparagus cherries balls, saffron chocolate, they're, all still harvested by hand in many ways. Automating certain crop harvests is still a lot harder than automating, something like say a carved. Factory, and the reason for this is actually pretty simple. Crops are not like cars, very easy for a robot to install it shield or put the lug knots on a wheel or lift an engine into chassis, because each component is near identical to the component in Pursuit
David Otter as an economist at MIT who studies the interaction of technology and labour and he says, that automation works great when a machine is placed in a highly regulated, highly predictable. Setting like an assembly line, however, outside about serving in the natural things tend to have a lot of variety, and they tend to be rather delicate, and so it is simply not the case every heirloom tomato has exact same shape and size of every other heirloom tomato. Nor is it the case that the effort that will be required to pluck it off the vine would be identical in all cases, and so that's a very challenging setting
two mechanized. So if you want to automate your harvest, you can't just find a great machine. You have to standardize your plans. In other words, you have to make a crops more like cars, so in agricultural mechanization it's not sufficient to take what the person was doing and have a machine. Do you actually have to change the way, the agriculture's down or even the nature crop to be able to do that, and so agricultural mechanization generally takes the form of making the the crops kind of tougher and more concise stent, where there are more like assembly, lime, objects and what that means for Stephanie and her quest to automate. Chile harvests is that, even if she found the perfect machine, she would probably continue to have disastrous field tests. Unless she, changed her chile, which is why, for the past five years, most of seven his work has been about Ray
in a whole new planet, one that is designed specifically to be picked by machine. Oh, we really haven't done anything much to the machine, except for a couple minor modifications. Most of my work has breeding lies. Stephanie is ideal, Shall we plant will have to have a few key drinks to make it truly machine friendly. One a deeper better anchored tap route and the plant the roots need to be strong So they don't get ripped out like they did before. Ground, we want a strong single stone. We work to grow straight up. We want the green, surely fruit lying on the outside the canopy, because if their nestled too deep in the canopy, the harvester can't reach in listening forget they also have to do and acquire quite late, flavour and he'd has to have a good flavour of the process. To looking for plant with all those things to get everything on her wishlist takes time, especially because lots of fun,
words are wary of Gmos since deafening, isn't using any fancy genetic editing techniques that reduced bringing process requires rubbing flower parts together in a greenhouse planting seeds and waiting to see what you get year after year. A lot of what you select, the looks really good one year is that with the same the coming season, so it's a whole lot of looking at plants, tasting chile, fruit and then started the cycle over again. But now after ten years of searching for the right machine and breeding peppers, that the machine can pick Stephanie and her team have a combination that has been showing some real promise and when I visited her inmost, let us it was time for a final test to see how her special chile's would perform if this test, what well Stephanie planned to move on to the next step and eventually start providing farmers with these new and improved see. So
We have basically here's some varieties that curried chilean seed company is developed. We just want to see how they pick. We have a couple standard control. Also easy. Nineteen o four, which is the most commonly grown green shilly, currently for commercial production, these standards, varieties, were their deserve. As controls to compare against her special strings and in the field, I could immediately tell that not all the chilly plants there were the same kind, some work tall and skinny with big fat peppers. Others were short and bushy with smaller skinnier peppers end of the rose sat her newest machine, believe it or not, it's called the most. This one thousand, perhaps because it was by a designer in Israel. Stephanie wasn't quite sure she was more focused on the price They gave us a bit of a deal. I think that's where the first, so we spanish it was about. Fifty five thousand, I think, with hostile to the seventy
the thing was the size of a writing lawnmower basically- and it had a kind of tier drop shape with the pointy bit of the two year tilted down at the ground inside There were two really long metal tubes that looked like gigantic drill bits. It was attached to a tractor Hoopdriver driver maneuvered the whole set up into place, then a volunteer flip a big switch, the drawbacks started. Turning and the machine slowly began to move through the first row of peppers of you. Later. One Stephanie collaborators turned to her and said he realized why it's called Moses, oh yeah, why yeah, that's right as it
Delong. I could see the metal bits spinning and could have judging up each plant, coaxing the peppers off and carrying them up onto to conveyor belt and into buckets waiting to catch the Chile's, in other words, Moses, seemed to be working there right, so you We do not support make us all find a field? Every girl? I was one of the breeding,
in addition: do not making sulphur in the field Stephanie breeding lines performed better than our controls, which means it wasn't just Moses that was working so well. It was Stephanie special plants, she's still sifting through the data trying to figure out exactly how efficiently in all went, but this particular combination of plant and machine might just be it. The holy grail of Chile's mixed Stephanie will have to go through was called a seed in Greece, which means we can a whole once these plants, so she can distribute the seeds to farmers, but the bigger challenge will be convincing farmers to give her seeds and machine a shot, because, even if it does, EAST exactly right in the machine works perfectly. Not everybody is ready to turn to automation. Back at the chilly taste off. I asked some farmers if they would, ever by a chilly picking machine, Sally, bigger the honor of Jenny,
this gardens said no, we would never link machine. Oh no! No! That's not new Mexico, and that's not chile. There, like the present regime, would probably not that's part of the pleasure in the law, Shelly some truly farmers like Sally, see hand picking as part of the tradition there, trying to defend its one of the things that makes it New Mexico, Chile. So for a lot of them, the idea of bringing a machine into the field doesnt sit right back, it is to reform and Sir Coral Glinda Guns Wilson.
To call for a different reason, he just didn't think a machine would ever work, but then again he hadn't seen Stephanie lay this test. You sure this is the machine it goes through and I've got these likes you access and it goes through the planet just sort of like she's up and plants days by. Let's look in pretty good, really that were. Seventy have noticed yeah. Seventy thousand dollars is not that much labour. Chinese, which of these reactions of the future of numerous go. Chile is itself Baker, who won't even consider omission or is it Glenn dug and willing to try it to save his business? answer will come down to what authentic chile actually means in New Mexico. Can a pepper,
Behind by scientists and picked by a machine really compared to a pepper like a Miss June named after the chilly a ninety five year old, whose father used to carry around in the fields as an infant in Chile, pepper sack, maybe Let me just needs a really good branding campaign, when her new line of Chile comes out, shall have to call it something Givney facts about the name I know that I don't know about you. I have some ideas that are not very happy with this. Another way. Will we looked at Mackey now, but I don't really like bag not a bad name it after people. But I just always worried that it's a gene, since you name it name of Friday after somebody is something goes wrong with that. What about Robo Crap row book? I think if you think that I would get in
copyright violations. For that wonder they see me it might be good publicity for the animals, the Chilean, this exactly exactly now you're dying rose. Evelyn is the creator of apart gas call a flash for which combines audio drama in deep purporting to understand the future things like. How would diplomacy work if we couldn't lie and what would the world look I get cement. The topics are unexpected in mind. Expanding and if your listening to this, it's probably right up alley
when we come back or be talking with her about how peppers could enter the wider world of agricultural automation, including the story of a machine that takes a different crops which did not in that helping people much at all state in we often don't think of winter as a time of growth or creation. But if you think about it, it's the perfect time to greet your own website, cooped up your thinking about being proactive and now square space can help you do it. Whiskers based can take your cool ideas. You ve creative content, your services, goods, and you can turn them into a beautiful website in just a few clicks. Does it because,
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We have spent a lot of time pondering the impact that technology will have on society in the future and in this case, the story that you just told us about the automation of the chilly pepper harvest it paints. This rosy picture like a kind of automation, as is unalloyed good. That is just there to fill a labour gap yet, but with what's funny is that that is usually the opposite narrative that we usually here, we we hear robots are taking our jobs, and this is horrible, and this is a bad thing and in your reporting you said it. In fact, you did come across the example of this phenomenon as well of robots, not filling in for missing agricultural workers, but actually displacing them canoe, a little bit more about that store, yeah, an interesting, because it's a story that kind of starts basically
the same way as the story of the peppers that we just talked about, so lots of small farmers facing a labour shortage looking to technology to save them, but a kind of goes to this darker place in that version of the story. So this one starts in the nation fifties in California, with tomatoes and specifically what called a processing tomatoes. What does it mean? Basically anything, but you don't eat fresh, so tomato sauce tomato paste candidates can hold all because of the you get can basically the grocery store ugly tomatoes, and this was a big business in California. There were about five thousand farmers in the Central Valley in California. Growing processing tomatoes and those farmers relied on migrant workers to pick those tomatoes and those workers came mostly through something called the breasts Arrow programme and with them, The research programme is worker program. It started in world WAR two as a way to replace the labour that went off to war,
and it allowed mostly mexican workers who come up into the. U S and work on these farms and the programme actually kept going after the war and the California tomato industry was completely reliant, on these workers and then in the nineteen sixty there was a rumour that sort of going around that the Brussels Programme was going to finally end, but these we at that point tomato farmers sort of freak out. They don't really know like why, they're gonna, do when they dont have workers through miseries edges or was it you I've ever problem exactly at it like gets, been more familiar because, just like with Chile peppers, there were scientists to scientists, in particular at using Davis who had been working on a tomato, harvester and tomato plant for ten years at that point was a billboard, so they were, they were I can tell the baby in the work of workers at the point is. I was gonna kind of its a good question and you don't like the that you guys these two guys
you guys are amazing, Avis, Jack Hannah and Kobe Lorenzo, and they were these sort of rogue figures at the time they started working on this in the nineteen fifties and every thought that their whole plan was basically impossible and also kind of ridiculous, because they just thought like a horse. We're gonna have workers, there's no there's no way we're not gonna have workers and their an oral history from the time when they talk about how these two guys are basically the laughing stock of the industry, as they ever thought. They were like totally out of their minds, but they they did kind of see this it's your labours wanted to think they guessed that the Brussels programme wouldn't be around forever right. It was just supposed to be the special stopgap dermal virtues they kind of predicted this. So how did the story turnip differently than the story of the papers? right so far were basically on track with peppers, but where a difference is that, in the case of tomatoes, this worker shortage actually didn't happen. I'm the research. And was eventually terminated, but it wasn't terminated until later and so the tomato
listing machine and the tomato actually came. First, I'm an even after the research programme was terminated. There were still workers who wanted to pick these tomatoes. There were still leave but the farmers they had already mechanized anyway, that's the nightmare scenario for workers rather totally unaware, yet an end, the ito they lost their job at this right. There were still workers, both in the United States and in Mexico, who relied on these jobs in the tomato fields, and they were suddenly replaced by this machine new tomato variety and rubber since the nineteen sixty. So there is no way for these workers to kind of like know that their jobs are gone, the can't text each other, they hate don't come in his machine instead, so thousands of farm workers actually showed up at these tomato farms expecting to pick tomatoes, and so you had thirty or thirty five thousand people with no work, often with their families and no money to buy food. No money to rent housing
they were homeless and they were penniless. So that's bill, Horner he's a retired attorney and bill is important in this tomato story, because in the nineteen sixteen he worked for an organisation called the California Rural legal assistance and they actually see food at the University of California on behalf of these displaced workers, so you see they ve got sued for inventing the tomato picking regime yet technically the less it wasn't really pinpointing the tomato machine. Specifically, it was about whether the University of California, which is a public Landry University, specifically Davis, should be using its funds to work on projects that benefit. These big corporations is bigger farms at the expense of family farmers and workers, and when this loss it started bill actually didn't even work for see our allay and the way he actually got involved is that Sierra Lay was trying to recruit him to work for them for a completely different job. But he had this on history of working for marginalized groups and marginalized people, and when he heard about this case, it really spoke to him. So when you,
interviewing for this other unrelated job he service. Just like forget about that. I want something else: they are you. I said to the then executive director on the phone. I said, look stop talking to me about this position. You're offering me, I don't want it I do want to come in and take over this lawsuit, and I get hired to do that that deciding that was exciting and this lawsuit like actually got it. And of attention at the time is covered in the New York Times. It was on the radio and for bill. It was this huge moment in his career. Frankly, I came back from my honey moon the night before the opening the trial attitude we had a two day honeymoon because my wedding coincided with the last weekend before the new truck help, and I came back from that to walk into the courtroom Monday morning and give this openings
ignorant and there were probably fifteen to twenty television cameras. Every network every radio station- and I had never been in an arena like that. So bells main argument in this case was that the tomato harvesting machine not only hurt californian farm workers by taking away their jobs, but it also hurt small family farmers, the user Davis Machine, it's really expensive, and to kind of make it work economically. For a farmer, you have to have a big fat with a lot of tomatoes to harvest. The funding was being used deliberately in many cases to promote large scale, corporate agriculture, and that was an explicit purpose that one can find in red
doing research proposals at the time, so he was trying to show that what automation was in this case was not sort of science making a world more prosperous for everybody, but instead it was the sort of way for big agriculture to grab market share such that everybody, but them loses suited the when it was good now because they have a good point. They do everything can point, and in fact you know the travelers forever it goes on for over ten years they go through two different judges, several appeals and ultimately they lose the case. But, like you say, to have a good point and bill was ultimately sort of right in just five years after the release of this tomato variety in the picker. Not only did all of these people lose their jobs, but four thousand four hundred and twenty eight of the five thousand tomato.
Growers ass. She went out of business in their place, the these mega farms they took over the land. And today, if you drive along the ninety nine into rally in California, you can see these giant tomato harvesting machines, harvesting, tomatoes for processing and those are a direct descendants of that uses. Avis project, through you know, if you put this together with the purpose story, there's really you two sides of this argument or mission could be a good thing to do labour shortages, or it could be a bad thing in the robots you take over jobs that don't need to be taken over. So another is unfair to ask, but you do a speculative like ass. You know, which is it like, which would More true, the tables have turned normally. Anyone asking. I should hope I mean I do think. It's kind of both
and neither right so in some cases like in the pepper case. There really is this labour shortage and in some cases these jobs are bad and dangerous, and if people can find work in better arenas, that is a good thing. In other cases, the good jobs the well paying safe union jobs. Those are actually the ones are being automated infective at all we heard earlier coined a term. He calls Polynesia paradox, which is this idea that the hardest jobs to automate are often the ones that people call quoting what low skill things like Mcdonald's, employee line cook dishwasher those jobs are actually often the things that machines can't do with a really hard for machines to do, but the easy jobs to automate are often the one that we call kind of good middle class jobs, things accounting and even you know, a union car assembly like job those of the jobs that people actually want and there the at the robots- are really good at taking. They arose links
many represent abysmal was produced this week by rose Evelyn edited by Jo Rosenberg, makes intact production by reviews of music by genre Kitty Mingoes are Senor producer. Kurt coasted is the digital director throws. A team is emphasised world average off my lady all crisper, Ruby, Sophia, clots, Caribbean lay and me roman Mars. Rosen a bunch of amazing people for their story, whose voices we were able to fit into the episode, but one special credit thanks to stone. You Schroeder the executive director of the New Mexico, Chile, Association, Brad Tunnels, who works with Stephanie on her breeding minds and Ellen. Send donuts who works on pepper breeding at Davis, and you told rose to talk to Stephanie in the first place We are productive. Ninety one point: seven k: L W in San Francisco, produced on radio role in beautiful, downtown, Oakland, California.
Ninety nine percent of visible as a member of Re Utopia from Pierre acts are fiercely independent, collective of the most innovative shows in all a pot cast fund. More radio Tokyo Donovan You can find the show enjoyed discussions about the show on Facebook. You me out roman Mars and show at ninety nine p. I ordered one instagram and read it to, but we will make you hungry Virgilius, with red and green and ip I dot org. Radio, too.
Transcript generated on 2020-02-14.