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378- Ubiquitous Icons: Peace, Power, and Happiness

2019-11-12 | 🔗

There are symbols all around us that we take for granted, like the lightning strike icon, which indicates that something is high voltage. Or a little campfire to indicate that something is flammable. Those icons are pretty obvious, but there are others that aren't so straightforward. Like, why do a triangle and a stick in a circle indicate "peace"? Where does the smiley face actually come from? Or the power symbol? We sent out the 99PI team to dig into the backstory behind some of those images you see every day.

Ubiquitous Icons: Peace, Power, and Happiness

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is ninety nine percent, invisible, I'm roman Mars there are symbols all around us. We take for granted like the lightning strike icon to indicate that something is high voltage or a little. Campfire to indicate that something is flammable. Those icons, they might have some fascinating origin story But there's symbolism is pretty obvious, but other abstract HANS are not so straightforward, like Why does one vertical line and to angle binds incitement circle indicate peace? Where does smiley face come from or the power, but today we- and down the nine o team to dig into? extorted behind some of those images. You see every day, you I know what they mean, you, don't know why they mean what they mean calling this episode, ubiquitous icons, so it is here to brings the story of the peace symbol here.
I am We are talking about the peace, simple, like two fingers up. We need someone takes picture right now, the drawing of like a circle with a little stick Yes, one that looks kind like the Mercedes bends logo. Right that you see everywhere, I mean it's kind of hard to think of a more ubiquitous icon. Yeah right, it's like truly truly everywhere, and I think what interests me about it was that, despite the it's sort of totally liquid It has a very, very specific origin story. Oh it's cool okay, so hit me with it so the symbol goes back to the nineteen fifties and a bridge organisation called the direct action Committee against Nuclear war, good name that says does what says on the tin yeah, it's pretty self explanatory. They were there and anti nuclear group red meat. It was then I can fifties it was set up in the early days of the cold war and nuclear proliferation and and Britain itself was was developing
a hydrogen bombs, and there was this growing active- sentiment that they didn't want that. Country to go down that path, and so in nineteen. Fifty eight they started organizing this really big March from London to a weapons facility in town called out or Maston, which was about fifty miles away. Also, there's like a long works like a multi day March right. Why of the people who help organise that March? Was a man named Gerald? Hold them and hold them was an artist in a designer he trained at the Royal College of our, and it was his job to design all up the posters and banners and what not for the march- and he specifically wanted to design a symbol, something that could convey the goals of these marchers convey this idea of anti nuclear proliferation, and you know he wanted to be simple, something that could be reproduced and a lot of designs, and I take it that he's the one who came up with the Pisa as we know it, you got it so where's the specific design actually come from like what is it supposed to represent.
Well, to answer that, I think we need to take a small diversion. So are you familiar with some a force Yeah, I mean it's the communication where you have to flags in your hands and you write different positions with your arms and it simply front letter exactly that myself was actually the concept goes back to the late eighty century in France. And this man named Claude Shop invented Basically, what it was like a network of towers on top of these towers, they had they sort of wooden. Structures that could be manipulated to create different positions. Would symbolise certain things, and so one tower would pass the message: onto the next hour, which were pass the message on to the next hour. They were operators in these towers that wouldn't nebulae the things, and it was this kind of amazing way and in a pre digital age to communicate messages over mean really large distances. It's like in
The return of the king, the Lord of the Rings movie yet light the bonfire doesn't exactly asked the whole mountain range and let's uncle Alec, Ella Bessie inspiring earns his government right and you know those about as fast as communication could happen. In this time they get em a supposedly send a message, a hundred miles and under ten minutes, and so that concept was a basically adapted to the floor. Language that you know by ethical, was british naval officers who served? we made a handheld version, nothing flies and so create these symbols, and you know an officer. I'm one ship communicate to an officer on it They ship or communicate to an officer shore and and hold the flies and a certain position that many certain letter and might habit and at another meeting- and this became an effective means of communication,
It's not terribly well used at this point anymore. You can, for obvious reasons its fairly redundant. You still do see a dozen times a in researching this. I discovered that the ocean city, be patrol in Maryland of sort of Super lifeguard group uses. It to communicate down the beach, let you know like a child is missing, no hold of the flags and one to the next, and then everyone on the business had so good has often them yeah, so some of you have to do with a piece of other. Well Gerald hold them used the same afore alphabet, the flag alphabet. Basically his inspiration for his design. So take a look at this image, So it's a stick figure human and they have arms kind it down at four o clock at eight o clock and to flags a kind of pointing down ears like that, but not directly down. That's one symbol and then another one is person with one arm up the five point up in one arm point down so at twelve and six
right and so so yeah. So basically, the peace sign that we are all familiar with is essentially to semi for letters, in your locking, something about a circles that you ve got to get the one with the down that then yeah than the upright de in India. So what is it in these? Therefore? For nuclear disarmament right what's a good air death recall forget such an abstract checked, you know I never knew there was a literal meaning encoded. In a totally I mean I always interpreted as a jet fighter, plane Lugano, that's that shape. And I thought it was the appropriated ironically to mean peace, not it's bizarre. It's a nuclear disarmament or in re. I just thought it was like you. I grew up in I run a gauge and so have you know. Examples like struck me as totally normal right, but the vote the richest stands for, and indeed together, is, is really cool. Is what works as with a direct explanation, but also works. If you don't know
Reilly, most people, the right- it's not like this is coming at it I dont think is common knowledge. I it's interesting item himself had sort of multiple interpret nations like that. In addition to the end of the day, he said that it sort of to him represented a figure with their arms outstretched in kind of like despairing position. Almost before firing squad. He mentioned the painting with a man before fires goes very like sad despairing image. Even so, designed specifically for this marked and obviously they accepted the design right right. It was a super, the marshes very successful, and it actually became an annual event is the time is traditionally the time for them then, the bomb rally at all of us- it was bigger than ever this year, and this was this before they set out on the fifty mile marched in London, a noteworthy event whether you haven't agree with our views are not tens of thousands of british people too. Took part in these marches. I learned dumb Fun fact that a year I am rod yet
good work, and yet they became like they became. Embedded within culture, this, a very famous scottish folks, singer, Matt begin, who wrote a song about them called the road from other Maston but the that's where he has in his voice. The year, usually nice. There has been a great body as the elder Maston marches, became this annual event. They start to be organized by this Ardour umbrella Organisation, called the campaign for nuclear disarmament, which is
organization that still exists to this day in the UK and they actually have hold them peace symbol as their official logo. Oh I'm so is not just a symbol that Europe, the symbol that people obviously use everywhere, but it is really an official logo for one individual organization. That's really kind of something so like how did it go from being a symbol used in this Martin, a specific logo for a certain organization to being this icon. That is just everywhere today, yeah. You know it's obviously not easy to answer that like how does anything spread and come on me like? If not you know, it's not an easy thing to to explain for sure one little like interesting tippit that I came across his eyes researching was that this right leader, buyer Rustin, actually spoke at that first elder mass in March, through the queer civil rights, leader, yeah yeah. Exactly very often,
are appreciated figure in the american Civil Rights movement, close adviser to doktor King important, organised or of the March on Washington, and he was there. He was at that first March and then you see the peace symbol starts showing up in civil rights, marches and night it as early as nineteen sixty, and so there is some speculation than it might have actually been Rustin himself, who brought this logo from these british marches to civil rights the marches in the? U S, it obviously became dolphin featured in some rights, marches and then obviously, really snowballed became a huge symbol and the Anti WAR movement in the United States with Vietnam, every one sort of took on happy in the peace imbalances in their own right I mean it became, does the symbol of Counter culturalism, but I don't know it's really. That is much any more like it got crabbed onto by commercial interests, to such an extent that I don't know
That's serious as simple as it once was. Yeah it's interesting it. So it was almost like so ubiquitously it lost its edge a little bit. I mean, I don't think of it as a countercultural symbol, necessarily it sort of just something. You know who doesn't support PS, who doesn't support irksome for them, is in Belgrade, funny. I remember he no eyes like I think I was in first or second grid is a picture of me from a school picture day unlike the like the lizards background, I'm wearing this like goofy little like safari, vest and like this ass, if peace sign necklace scene, I ever aromas massive work say I mean you know like over the lake leg, like half dollar half dollars, that's pretty good yeah, I'm I'm I'm certain! I had a piece I Nicholas when I was in high school, yet totally the area. It was everywhere maybe even more so than the now, but crazy certainly feel out of him round dumb are our beloved eddies
for sure? Do you any that I mean? Do you have any thoughts like as a summary things about design and and logos, unlike why this was successful like what's what's good it is as a logo as a piece of design, I mean, I think it's really easy to draw its really striking is enough of an abstract image that you can poor meaning into and seemed to retain that meaning, even though went beyond nuclear disarmament and went to like prayer general in lots of ways like us The orientation like it doesn't have to be perfectly upright for it to work. In fact, like a little bit tilted, it looks good and either way yeah, it's interesting on. I, like I talk to this historian of the peace symbols. Neighbours can call spun and we were. He wrote a great book detailing all this history and he said it Gerard hold them actually himself came to think that it should be free.
Completely upside down, so that the two lines coming off of the centre line will be facing upward and forty five myriad forming a. Why forming a? Why- and I think you know part of his reasoning- was that that it would look almost like, like a tree, o gum and in a sort of a more hopeful symbol there. But the other thing which I think is pretty interesting was that then it would, in some afore butter is be a? U on men or not an aim which he saw as universal disarmament instead of nuclear disarmament, which is pretty cool, you think, We know that this has actually happened. Most people do keep it. Went down, but I think that unite in his mind. It was bigger than just you. Ve been a Briton, not developing nuclear weapons. It was about like world peace, which is exactly the kind of what what it, what it has to come to symbolise bs or whether or not you flip it or not. It really is that intended still there. I think so yeah pretty gray and means that he created a symbol that stood the test of time.
What do you flip it or not? Right I mean you, don't know once you create something and it gets sucked into culture to the degree that the peace symbol did you don't exactly get to you don't get to flip nights head like five years, where it was gone, its everyone else's belongs to the life of the world that circle thanks. Thank you. Special thanks to KEN Coleman who spoke with him at about the symbol, he wrote a great book called peace, the biography of a symbol. Would you can find a link to on our web, so I'm industry within lay, and what is your ubiquitous icon you're going tell us about today,
Oh this story actually came from one of our listeners name, Monica meaner, who is awesome by the way, We have some really call his nose and she lives in Vancouver now back in two thousand. Or she was working for a law firm in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia in intellectual property, under trade, so my job was basically to look, has either a crazed, trademark, applications or right as statements do the registrar, and I promise that this story is gonna. Get more interesting, my government, you man,
So I will get more interesting promises. The cornerstone of Collaborative nine, ninety ibis everyone's about IP and its can be cool. No doubt you going out, so I just feel like we have to clarify a couple things right up top, and one of them is what a trademark actually is. A trade mark is basically, words or sounds letters or design or a combination of of all or a few of them. Distinguish our ones and goods or services from all in the marketplace. So, if you're accompany you can register a trade mark or like a logo with the trademark
this and that logo is supposed to be representative of your goods and services, and so, as this mark becomes associated with their product, it becomes tied to the reputation of your brand gonna countries over. So if someone wants to register a trademark they have to submit for reveal, but if there is an existing trademark already and the owner thinks that your trademark is to somewhere to theirs, they can oppose it. For example, if you take the nine p I logo just like the blackboard with the l, a square that logos associate with there were a great. So imagine a really really bad. Podcast comes out admiral motorboat, so matching there's a good Harebell, chatty, pod gas and there are logos very similar, like it's. A placard would like a slightly different, yellow veto, whatever they might see that and think it's nine nine p eyes work, and then your reputation would be negatively affected by their logo total. That's that's the whole reason one of trademark protection can
Using the consumer is the heart of trademark protection. Yes, exactly you got it so Monica basically wrote to us because there's this one case in particular that she worked on back in two thousand for and it's been stuck in her head for, like the last fifteen year, so I dont know if you're familiar with the come on institute, but it's basically like an education centre franchise like a bunch of flight tutoring schools. Basically, ok! So there are trying to register a trademark logo, but they were being opposed by another company. We got a statement of opposition, from another company regarding one of our registrations for a trademark afforded command institute, they were sent a opposition to say that commands a logo is sad to similar to their already registered trademark, which is a smiley face, as in the classic Smiley face a big yellow circle to evolve
he's in a semicircle mouth, the exact. Let me think about a smiley face, that is the company that was opposing. This education centre certainly qualifies as ubiquitous icon, but I told you I think that it could be owned by one company such there they would have a trademark dispute and even designed by anyone here just seems like a thing that exists. There is everywhere inside everything, so I should actually show you what the common logo looks like. So there's a photo. Ok, so it says, come on in the the o is is a face. It's not smiling and just like a very simple circle and a kind of straight line like pensive. It looks like the head of the nineties cartoon anything like it. It's not really if only smiling down the. I am like to me. It kind of looks more like the the Zoloft cartoon than an actual smiley face were just like
as you can see the Madman Depression yet it has a little bit by bit. Also just has a little bit like you know that it's cool looking. Actually it's a good luck. It has its good, let go I like, but the combining state was being opposed by the Smiley company, which was founded by Journal Name, Franklin, Lou, Phrony and now it's run by his son Nicholas Leaf Ronnie, so they registered the Smiley face trademark in nineteen. Seventy one, they basically licence the rights for commercial purposes to leave eyes, are candy companies or basically need buddy. That wants to use the design. But do you want to know the weirdest thing, but I learned while researching this adoring government were over. So if you go to Nicholas Lou, fraud is linked and page he's. His fischler title is beloved leader at the smiley company.
Leader. It's not a good look. North korean, oh goodness, only needed a mean that he could be a delightful fellow in this just kind of having fun or whatever, but like that is definitely dictatorial rule. It's better that screams to me personally in whenever, wherever it enjoy Gub Gub Gub, yet so, knowing that this actually wasn't first time that we Phrony tried to block and other trademark. He also tried to block a joke boxer which im not sure, if your feelings I totally under company and they have their their logos, like basically, a smiley face with a tongue sticking out and they are also involved in, like a year's long battle with Walmart, because Walmart uses the smiley face in the rollback campaign. Totally yeah. I like floats around and changes the prices on the wall. That guy disappeared for awhile because of this legal battle with we front so was the smiling face
originally created by Lou Phrony, or was he just the first person a trademark at sea? That is the question because, even though Lou Phrony was the first to register, the mark is definitely not the first person to claim to have created at there's like accounts, they go back to the sixteen hundred. Basically, some variation of a smiling face, symbol being used, but the most widely accepted theory of who invented that classic, yellow smiley faces? We note today was a man named Harvey Ross Ball in nineteen sixty three, he was hired I a insurance company to improve morale, so he was hired to create some kind of a design that they can apply on buttons and other maybe materials so ball was a freelance artist basin, Worcester It was with some Massachusetts: chowder socks and around this time I'm state mutual life insurance merged with one of their competitors end every
In the view of a merger, I guess there's a lot of lay offs and sadness for sure yeah. So what state mutual did? Was they hired ball to come up with this logo for a friendship campaign that there are launching, so they just like slap on buttons and posters and handed out to like, staff and clients in that sort of thing and honestly, not a ton of thought went into the design because Paul said that he mocked up the design about like ten minutes and just paid forty five dollars for it. But the campaign started like growing the other button sorted catching on in state mutual started selling, actually, like thousands of these smiley face buttons, their state, mutual or ball trademark. The logo signals I know so, have you ever heard of the smiley face being referred to as have a nice day? Sums familiar, but no I would I would always cholera, smiling yeah. It's kind of like a slogan that went with Smiling. Some people might recognize like have a nice day rather than like the smiley face them, so they have
I stay smiley face, is essentially the same design as ball smiley face, but instead its credited to these two brothers name, Bernard and Murray, Spain, so in nineteen, seventy they basically just took balls design and sold at the hallmark with the phrase have a nice day, and this is kind of the point where the smiley face shot into that nebulous pop culture. Stratosphere broke his end up on the mugs, tee shirts, bumper stickers, earrings, and it becomes sorted this embodiment of merchandising and mass production, and because the smiley face was everywhere and on everything the meaning behind the smiley face was notes easily corrupted so like in nineteen. Seventy two, it was featured satirical on the cover of mad magazine there, like a composite image of Alfred, inhuman space. The yellow smiley they re read, but do, You know the song, California, member Alice by the dead Kennedys. What? Yes
I know this. I will get nowhere near knowing a little bit about what is it tat you ve never come closer to being fired and you are right. Do you know I doubt and also experts or do you want me to think the first thing you see how about that governor, Jerry Round, Myra smiles and never rounds soon. I will be brief and then I know the southern California to sell it. Like seventy nine nineteen, seventy nine. So the song is about like this hippy, fascist,
run by Jerry Brownrigg, the single art it kind of toxic Jerry Brown is the Dick Peter, and it's like a Nuremberg style rally. Instead it behind him, it's bad wants to goes there smiley face in the eye ass notes like this, it's kind of entering this corruption, phase a smiley face where there's a sinister qualities exactly and then the smiley face is reappropriate it again by Alan Moors, watchman or you're familiar with totally and it was, it was clearly already creepy. Then, and then you know he adds that splash of blood wearily comes the symbol for watchman and the comedian whose, like that's the his symbol, is deeply flawed and awful character and. The smiley faces this, you know kind of ironic, but also almost
look, I don't even know already pre corrupted to an extent that I don't even know how much the comedian his character is subverting. The an almost you dont have a nice day when you see the watchman, smartly, have you not in the bed and also just the violence of that. It's a graphic novel that kind of makes you feel bad idea. Its edge is very jar as it has a piece of art in Ghana. Good when you read watchman you that smiley face began to associate with that discomfort total yeah, but once you start getting into the eightys, the smiling face kind of just strays. Further. And further away from God, because acid house, music in rave, start taking over the UK and I'm not sure how much time you ve spent at raves murmured. Their tends to be lot of drug use happening there scandalous I mean I just want to caution you about it. Is sometimes there's drugs and at a lot of these raves, the pills would be printed with a smiley face, design on them
so like in the eighties and in the nineties. In the United States, the smiley face was kind of justice socio with this rave culture and like illicit drug culture. But yeah did so it's like it's gone it's far from where it started here and it is kind of takes on its like tofu. It just takes on the flavour of whatever girondin. Yet his point in cause. It's just that its icon, tofu, that's great! You are so Dave Gibbons who, where's the illiterate or watch get used to illustrate watchman. You actually said this of the smiling face, which I really like. He says it's just a yellow field with three marks on it. It couldn't be more simple and so did that degree, its de and ready for meaning. If you put in a nursery setting, it fits in well. If you take it and put it on right, policeman's gas mask, then it becomes something completely different, and this is your kind of war
the arguments that Monica used against Lou, Phrony and Smiley company when they tried to oppose the common logo. Oh that's really interesting how it should do so. If you remember, a trademark is supposed to be like a distinct representation of a product or a company right now, but the smiley face is so ubiquitous and has been used in so many different competing ways that, as a trademark for the Smiley company Doesn't really hold any association to the smile company, orderly, Phrony himself. That is actually a problem for the funny because it is now out of such widespread use. It is most probable that most people have never even heard of me being associated with dismay face your army MIKE, I think probably most people trip
The smiling face logo to forest Gump than before on here. Any hast related, yes MA am before us and the story, I would have said forest got made this mainly so does she when she dead yet, and that is the current logo for human things, had them local you, that's all thanks, must go right now, we're if you have an interesting job done some cool, It's not interesting, but there's a whole story. We sped through burning job There is an interesting story. Vine, and if this is it This is your things are really thank you.
Curtain, I will talk about the symbol of power. After this, we often don't think of winter as a time of growth or creation. But if you think about it, it's the perfect time to create your own website, cooped up your thinking about being productive and now square space can help you do it with squares. Based can take your cool ideas, you ve creative content, your services, goods, and you can turn them into a beautiful website in just a few clicks. Does it because.
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officially known as these standby symbol. Oh ok, this is what you'd see on a computer, for example, oh yeah, if you spent any time at all around computers. You ve seen power buttons like that, it's very common in its like very specific, it's basically just a circle with a gap at the time and lose this vertical line that runs up through the centre, the circle and through that gap yeah this is pretty what you see on every computer, you press the button to restart the computer or to put to sleep or to offer that sort of thing, yeah, yeah and it looks sort of abuse act like doesn't look like anything in particular, but is also one of those ubiquitous icons. It like the ones we ve been talking about that it seems too, makes so as to what is, even though I never really thought about how abstract there is or how little it is at all, yeah yeah, you learned from context. You see it over and over again you're the guy. It's a power button bright, but is actually based on binary notation. So
Chile binary is about on states and off states which are usually represented by ones and zeros, whom and those of course, look a lot like vertical lines and circles. Ok, so like the circle is the zero that indicates off and then the line part. The vertical line is the one and then it gets on, but wise align like breaking up the circle like it is on a button So that's why this is called the standby symbol, because it's not a complete power on off symbol and its used mostly to put devices to sleep and await them back up again, so it doesn't actually physically cut off power going to a device like pulling the or removing the battery or something. But I also feel like I've seen the general use of the circle and the line on other types of power, switches and stuff like that. Is that comedy, agile, gay? You definitely how there's a bunch of power related symbols that all use lines and circles. So some of you will see a switch for example. With
line on. One side and a circle on the other and rain and that's like a hard on off switch. Even front somewhere buttons that, where, like the circle, completely encloses the line, so that There is no ambiguity. You know like this is gonna turn something completely on or completely off So once you see I was the connection between the binary zero and one all these other power buttons, pretty much since they are a little bit of variation, but they premature that, but there is also I mean I number one. I was a kid, but boom boxes had a at us like a switcher morning, a light switch. Where it would say like on and off for, like. Stereo area push button, but it would say power, I think, that's colonel, on way over time, a little less overtime yeah I was, really common thing for a long time to use english language labels rummage, people could read, but the MID meant under its late. Ninety, in other words as electronic started to get made
around the world and then shipped around the world languages became sort of a barrier right He needed something more universal. Also, if you think about it, words take up a lot of space compared to simple red resolve. This is where the I e c comes in MRS and that's the nonprofit international electrodes. The commission, and in the nineteen seventies they publish this document called graphical symbols for use on equipment within them. Cool, and this is just like us sampling of what this is. I just read out a couple pages pages: is he lingered a gas tank, a symbol for a hood on a car and a trunk. Opening seatbelt sign oil sign battery sign. These are already recognises all on the dashboard of car, you can tell a month and urged for this together, because it's like they all that they all work at this,
As you know, the end there all very uniform in size and they convey information in that size of a lot of information, but they are really kind of different too. You know, yeah and the ideas came up with some of these, but a lot of them. They just adopted or adapted from what was already being widely you and then they just folded them into this huge set of recommended standards. They look kind of like tech, hieroglyphics. They convey a lot of information. If you put him all together. Almost story, certainly not the best at maintaining my car. Oh various later on in my car at all times. So I'm familiar with a lot of these least symbols. Yeah. And the idea is that they are supposed to be familiar and they're supposed to work across languages and a different scales. Bs to have hidden universals possible. So if you travel to another country and drive a car- and you see I come on- hopefully you also know what's wrong and that the other country right and as part
of making them universal and understandable The icy goes out of its way to create these Julie, similar sets are families of symbols, and that way. Once you understand one of them, you can start to make guesses about what other symbols would look like yes, I'm coming through, and I knew I reckon has a lot of these symbols, but the power icon, one that we start up that one, You see variations of that more than easy any of these in a like that, it's on every type of got it in every type of computer or whatever get its super widespread now and there's this great Youtube video about it on the child called algae are the power symbol, agent most never given much thought the mirror. Shows a bunch of reasons and remixes things company logos tee shirts, even tattoos propose are really serious about it of all the symbols defined in I e c sixty four one, seven, the one for power is our
surely the one to have best achieved its goal of ubiquity around the world, especially among the Tec, loving community. So the simple really has become recognisable and ubiquitous, which, from the perspective of the I e c, is great. That means it's working as intended people find the icy manual online. Oh yeah they'll be links on the web say it to the icy manual I'll bet this video. Those is talking about that you can go wild and play guessing games, trying to figure out what the different symbols mean: picture, ninety nine percent invisible was produced this week by Emmett Fitzgerald, Vivian, lay Kirkwall Stead and crisp ruby music by Sean Rio Katy mean is our senior producer recipe. Is Delaney Hall, Joe Rosenberg Sharif Use of
every twelve lament Sophia Cluster and me roman Mars. We a project of ninety one point: seven K, L W in San Francisco and produced on radio row in beautiful, downtown oakland- California, No I'm presentable as a member of Radio Tokyo from Pierre acts are fiercely independent, collective of the most innovative shows in all upon casting on more red utopia. Diaphragm You can run the show enjoying discussions about shown. Facebooking tree me at Roman Mars and show at nine p m or run the grim and ready to. But if you want us, To explore the origin of other ubiquitous icons, leave a comment and nine and beyond DOT org
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Transcript generated on 2020-02-14.