We're excited to celebrate the release of The 99% Invisible City book by host Roman Mars and producer Kurt Kohlstedt with a guided audio tour of beautiful downtown Oakland, California.
In this episode, we explain how anchor plates help hold up brick walls; why metal fire escapes are mostly found on older buildings; what impact camouflaging defensive designs has on public spaces; who benefits from those spray-painted markings on city streets, and much more.
Plus, At the end of the tour, stick around for a behind the scenes look at the book as we answer a series of fan-submitted questions about how it was created, offering a window into the writing, illustration and design processes.
Exploring The 99% Invisible City
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Our first book is out now the ninety nine percent, invisible city, a field guide to the hidden world of everyday design can an excellent,
the New York Times. Thank you and seems we selling well in bookstores all around the world, thanks for posting all the pictures of spy
clean it out in the wild? Your excitement has,
so rewarding after all, the hard work get a print cut
you have your own or you can always get the audio book or both
Going to ninety nine b, DOT Org slash book.
This is the ninety nine percent, invisible city, I'm roman Mars,.
For the first time, in a long time, I'm in our office in beautiful, downtown, Oakland California,
A couple people actually still work here are two people can occupy the space without violating any social distancing. Guidelines are to introduce there's two different bathrooms, two different kitchen,
I usually work at home, but today, I'm here because our first book,
ninety nine percent, invisible city has just been released.
Into the world scene
it's a guide to the city with stories histories-
the seemingly mundane things around to my co author crooked,
said, and I are gonna use. It took
all the everyday objects right outside
our own headquarters, but before we
leave the office just looking at the window. There's a brick building next door and the tops of its walls are dotted with a bunch of square metal plates. These anchor plates are of
two inches across their pretty thin and their spawn in front a different orientations so
even though their painted the London with a brick won t notice them. They cannot stand out. You could think of them like giant washers with bolter rods, tying them into the bricks and helping brace them against the facade in
these ones haven't be square, but I've seen others the neighbourhood that around or octagonal. In fact, anchor pleads like this.
Pretty common in the Bay area. In part. First, seismic reasons:
make sure that lose brick still fall off buildings and hurt people dying, earthquakes.
these particular ones are way: a pie where the walls overrun the roof. So there's parapet up there were the bricks can't be pressed against the main building.
Into someone install bees and connected them to middle braces on the roof tat you can actually see from below and other place.
so you can see aeroplanes all the way down a facade. In those cases they have a ton of work to do
they help pulled up. Entire masonry was that might otherwise be at risk of total collapse in the book.
We have an illustration, with a bunch of different shapes that you can look out for air and whatever say you're in there squares and Sir
calls and stars other geometric forms, but there are also some really ornate ones like this huge curbing as shape that holds up an old stone on Europe, but whether they look good or not so good, they ve got a job to do and they all looked better than the alternative, which would be, of course, a pile of stones were bricks.
So if you walk outside of our building and look back, you will see a beautiful black ornate fire escape. I love that we have
fire escape on our building. I know a couple of people on the staff they they climb out on. It may watch the city at night. I never do that because I'm I'm a big chicken fire has long been one of the greatest existential threat to a building and its occupants, but fire escapes became widespread
of late in the game back in the seventeen hundreds fire escapes weren't built in features, but
other mobile ladders on carts hauled to blazes by firemen,
other solutions for escaping a fire in a multi story. Building in the eighteen, hundreds included, parachute hats, I think you can imagine both others looked him
they did not work at all. There was even this widely circulated plan that propose that if there was a fire,
archers from the ground would shoot arrows with ropes attached to them residence on the upper floors to shimmy down, but eventually we settled on iron virus gapes attached permanently to a building facade
earthquakes are, thankfully, not use very often, but unfortunately this also means that they can fall into disrepair, especially if
and Lord is prone to cutting corners, the IMF,
most triangle shirt waist bribery, fire that killed one hundred and forty six people in nineteen eleven
was a national tragedy that sport a lot
Change in terms of workers rights, but it also made people will close.
At how we need safe and plentiful means of egress from buildings in case of emergency. In this instance,
One of the things that cause caused. The deaths was that the fire escape collapse under the weight of all the people trying to flee for their lives.
Since then, and especially today, managing the flow of people during urgency is a top consideration. Stop her,
Obviously, if you look around the city, most buildings don't seem to have fire escape Seymour. The newer buildings never do but looks, can be deceiving these buildings. They do have fire escapes, but they ve essentially been swallowed up by buildings, evolving into fortified stairs,
fire stairs, often double as ordinary staircases used on a daily basis, but they have extra protection than feature
to make them safer routes of escape during emergencies. So you could be walking on the great
Granddaughter of this virus gave every day and not even upset,
so right, extorted obvious, there's a storefront
the business is inside of a fair, have changed over the years without front. There's this persistent element and its planter and the planter is kind of recessed into the facade of it, so the edge of it, the front edge of it, is up against the sidewalk and the plants dirt are held in place by this low retaining wall.
That's maybe a couple ages and you know under the best of circumstance, it wouldn't be a great place to avoid seeing people try. But what makes it really
really unappealing. Is this row up now that they have read along the path and we ve talked about things like.
makes on the show before this.
city, but these nabs. They look almost decorative. Like repeated to blending
the black wall there
offensive design but like in the skies.
When we think about things a defensive design or hostile architecture, we tend to imagine obvious things like spikes, but there
a lot of less obvious ones to some places have sprinkler systems that are situated to she people away, rather than to actually
vitamins and its. Yet it is this one by crack in particular its kind of infamous, because
people started to question. Why the technical background not a place, we would normally Parker Banks, it turned out
This was put there by the city to keep people from setting up tents and camping on particular stretch of sidewalk, and you know,
sure a lot of these interventions to tackle
underlying issues they just kind of shopful people around and to me, that's
a good argument for transparency, among other things, is when you,
This is something new
conversations from starting rang rights once its clear
I think this way it is people concerted debate
whether or not a given design put a solution, is humane or equitable, or even affecting looking down on a street corner. You'll see a bunch of spray painted marks on the road and on the sidewalk, whose fun backed the first two page illustration in the book located just before chapter. One is an illustration of this very spot. Kurt took the picture from our window. The colorful spray painted markings are a guide to all the pipes
wires and tubes crisscrossing below the surface, and they are there for a very important reason.
in June of nineteen seventy six workers were excavating stretch, events Boulevard in LOS Angeles, California and accidently cut into a hidden petroleum pipeline, the pipe ruptured in pressurize gas,
ignited into a fireball that engulfed passing cars and adjacent businesses more than two dozen p.
were injured or killed. This wasn't me first or last tragedy
its kind, but the enormity of this particular disaster helped catalyze. The codification of these color coded utility
so in general, anyone excavating on public property is required to contact a regional political organization before digging into the ground, so that the different utility agencies can come out and mark the hazards that may be below the American
standards and to has formalised which colors
Kate, which utility. So this is my report, so rare
It is for electrical power lines, oranges,
we're. Telecommunications, yellow is for gashes or combust of materials like natural gas or patrolman green.
four sewage lines there.
where the colors, but those are some of the biggest
for some reason in infinity symbol is used, indicate the beginning or end of a proposed product area. Even though an infinity symbol is no
applied to things without a beginning or an end.
So obviously some colours and symbols are more intuitive than others or what I love about all this official graffiti is that for this stuff
sure, concrete. We all have x ray vision if we know how to decode it so on are blocked,
there's a relatively recent renovation that added a bunch of traffic coming by six things like planters and bullets to him in the car is a bit and slow people down and to make it easier to cross the street in the it's pretty good.
further up the street, if you ve got a bit, there is a much more traditional in classical and recognisable traffic coming feature these people and it's pretty typical. It looks like any other speed bump. It's just I raised stretch of payment that goes across the lane and admit the slow people down and then the boat. We write about a bunch of different traffic calling strategies, but this is this one in particular, but I really
the men to and what it's called thirty depends on. Who you ask if you, Google, speed, cushion you'll, get the right result? What makes it
special, actually pretty simple. It's got these we'll widens laces cut through it. So if you see why actually looks like three smaller me book side by side,
But why well their space to accommodate emergency deepens like
ambulances so for a normal driver of economic power with normal deals, basing its still works like US people, but for a driver, rushing to save lives. Thinking breeze right through without slowing down
honestly pretty simple, but I think it's quite teachings
ok traffic lights. We already told you about the one in Syracuse New York with the Green on
The red is a symbol of irish pride, but that is
the only funky thing going on with traffic like colours in the world in Japan,
their green light is more of a blue
who green in this comes from the fact that their interpretation of the covered, a blue or I'll, go out, as they say, that's the best I can say as they say,
I'll historically encompasses Hughes, that most english speakers in the West would call green jobs
was not a signatory to the Vienna Convention on road signs and signals, which was this Malta.
Treaties, systematizing road signs, markings and lights across dozens of countries, and so for nearly one hundred years. Japanese stop lights have been labelled blue on official documents, even though many languages would call the color they see on japanese traffic lights green. So in order to cut down
on international confusion. They came to a compromise
in nineteen. Seventy three the government mandated that traffic lights used, the bluest
aid of green possible. So is the color
frankly green, but blue enough to be called out. So if you go to Japan, their green traffic lights, maybe more growth,
between, but still just keep moving along all is well
while when they had space of Japan by Way of Oakland, I want to tell you about the man who covers of Osaka. Oh, my god, they're beautiful, the open manual covers in our neighbourhood or so boring in comparison to those in Osaka. There's one that looks like
in point. Eight would block print showing Osaka Castle wrapped in blue waves in white cherry blossoms, and fancy covers streets all over the country with pictures of flowers, animals, buildings, bridges, boats, mythical heroes, rising phoenix. Is these artistic covers gained arbitrarily in the nineteen eighties, when a government bureaucrat named Yazoo Talkie Khamenei proposed them as a way to raise awareness of the autumn? This is pursuing systems and pick one mistake is pursuing systems are more some. No one should need to be convinced
but he wanted to levy more taxes to improve and expand this your network and so
anti covers where the focus of a visibility in appreciation campaign he even incurred
different cities to compete over who had the best lids. Now you could easily have been a good hour. Marvelling at japanese manhole covers online. In fact, I encourage you to do just that. These opened once, though, they kind of shock, but municipal water systems. There still makes
So if there's one thing, I always notice when I walk round downtown open its this giant array of stuff on top of this tall building a few blocks from our office in it's hard to tell from far away and from down on the ground. But these things are huge, like the size of suvs, their curved at the top and the tapers. They go down and a face and various directions. But what our
Well, they're microwave really towers and their vestiges of this really remarkable technology from the midnight in hundreds act in the nineteen. Fifty is eighty anti engaged in this huge nationwide construction project. The company deployed a whole network of these relays across the country, ensure ok long.
works, existed already and not like this. What I find most amazing about these relays is that they were wireless and require
Lines of sight which meets every o re had to be visible to the others around it. In order to relay signals, so these are point to point relays out information from coastal coast across the entire United States for decades the connected cities to cities across these vast expanses, you could see them upon mountain tops just everywhere across the country. You, Google, a map of the
it's really incredible how expensive they were, and now, of course, in the days of fiber, optics and satellite they're, basically obsolete, and some of them are long gone, but many are still up like these ones in Oakland
alas, one of my favorite sense,
but I really liked in Minneapolis got taken down me something
this kind of crown around the top of this building downtown into you kid
look for that particular one anymore, but you can't you noticed mention of it in our budget,
And some relays are still up because it's just too much hassle to dismantle them in this really no reason to, but in cases like this
or in LOS Angeles they are factored into the architecture itself, so they really made to fit into the design of the building and in part that makes them harder to spot.
because you know you don't really know what they're, therefore, and they could just because of an architectural flourish and even
in cases where they do stand out, more they're, not always
is it see because the tops of buildings are covered with a lot of stuff like each back systems and satellite dishes, but once you know what you're looking for
you'll just start seeing them everywhere,
most of the numbered streets downtown are one way which means they have white dashed, Senator lines that divide lanes. This innovation is credited to one man Edward in hides. It was a road booster and a member of the Wing County Road Commission in Michigan and the early twentieth century when cars
us getting more widespread roads story,
He was driving on a country, road behind milk truck that was leaking its cargo and this
inspired him to invent
Lane dividing centralize this always
as a ridiculous story, but anyway
However, he got the inspiration thanks to Heinz the first stripe Paint
providing lanes was laid down in Wayne County, which includes Detroit and from there
I began to be drawn. Curves dangerous zones to encourage cars to stick to their side in those particularly has response.
and then eventually they appeared on all those in the county and then across the state today, roads,
is across the? U S feature millions of miles, a paint from coastal coast Heinz certainly left
an indelible mark on the world, even if that looked like
This is bullshit. So
Lotta construction go home and opened a lotta sidewalks or turn up or closed down downtown area
A beautiful murals though around, but if you are the good work done sidewalk you like some are obvious. You can see these little plans embedded, wonderful and
This one is pretty clearly worded so private property permission to pass over revocable at any time. Some of the bit more cryptic, they say things like space within building lies not dedicated, which can be of hard departs. But the message is the same: it's basically he you can walk here, but just so you know, this is technically private property. Sometimes owners will build right up to the poverty line or put landscaping out that marks off the edge of their territory, but when they don't, this is a way for them to maintain their ownership, and so some install these shiny, middle blacks and other issues stamp messages like these right into the country and effectively there telling you you're on private property in a place where you.
Not think is private property, so it might be like at the public sidewalk. But it's not, and if you look down a sidewalk, you can often see a bigger matter like a series of swarming along dash line and that, of course marks out the properties edge and then at the corner, Brenda right angle, version and that's supposed to mark out the corner of the property. So together these form an outline of the building property footprint and their important four billion dollars because
of something called adverse possession now the laws around this very from place to place. But the basic idea is that if you dont explicitly reserve your property rights, somehow you can lose them, so these markers are there in case the others want to build up later, but in the meantime, there also conceding some space for semi public use, which is nice once you recognize what these markers signify in start to see
also start to see open spaces different and recognise their invisible line, dividing
public and private public, or these invisible
I told you, don't you start reading the box,
just a handful of stories from the ninety nine percent, invisible city.
Fired by the things on our streets, when you get the book you can explore about four hundred pages of similar stories.
and if you listen to me reading audio book about eleven hours, you can put it
on a bedtime, you can listen all the way through the night without having to queue up another episode or listen to a furniture at all, though I, like the furniture hats
it is an interesting time to be alive and an interesting time to be putting out this book.
Since we're not really travelling and generally sticking close to home. This is accidentally a perfect feel guide for that
mom it's a guy to the wonder of the built world right in your own neighborhood, using examples from all over the globe. Maybe it will be a comfort to you. It was designed to be a good companion and to bring more joy in the world we're trying to get it out to as many people as possible and expand
little tribe of black readers, design, fanatics and curious urbanists copy for yourself in your friends, family,
ninety nine p, I dot org slash book, but going up,
when I talk about some of the behind the scenes of making the book and answer many questions. People have been asking about the process stay with us
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simply safeguard com, slash nine nine. So I'm talking with correct course that he's the digital director of ninety nine percent of visible in the co author of the book.
and we want answer a lot of questions that we ve been asked as we ve been putting together the book of last couple years. Yet some of these are questions that have come up. You know over and over again, and so a sort of distilled them down and end said: ok Eric, which ones are the ones that people are asking them most, and we came up with these questions that seem to sort of synthesize
the things that people are interested in knowing more about mine. So the first one is about the process of gathering material, unpicking topics and organizing all the book. I mean
One thing that we had working for us and against us was:
the ten years of the show. So there's a lot of like
information information presented in different ways tonnes it up. That's in the book
you know never, as appeared on show before. So, let's talk a little bit about how we organise the book. There's this.
look I've been telling friends, you know if you're gonna write a book, maybe right about one thing:
set up a hundred things and it's a really unique challenge to try to bring all of these stories together under one roof and a figure out either not just what to include how to how to structure the whole thing going way back. If this is the thing that we first started talking about, like my first text file, that has the field guide idea sitting in it is from June two thousand and seventeen started to think about. Okay. How might this work? What kinds of things, but you want to include- and I started writing articles and we start doing shows with that in the back.
I am like which things are recovering or not covering. It would make sense to include in a book about cities and design mine and then in twenty eight teen. We started to really sit down with this thing and who started working on this giant spreadsheet
which was a list of every article that you ve ever written and every episode that we ve ever done and a bunch of ideas adopting about, and they were all tabs. It was this hats if they
it was really something to behold, yeah and in the end, then, you and I went through and we raided them on a scale of one to five of what type of things
would be included in the book that each of us is conceiving in our mind before had actually been put together right. That was sort of this initial weeding out process, whereas, like okay, if you say it's a one- and I say it's a five- maybe we should talk about, but of course there are a lot of places where we just agreed is like all this has to be in the book. This is a story we need to tell and in one of the ways that I've explained it to other people, too, is like you had this idea and maybe I'll oversimplify at all, but you have this idea,
of including the best possible stories, which is a great idea. I had this idea of you know making sure it all made sense as a book. You know me here. There are sort of arcs within stories, but also between stories and and sections and chapters, and- and I think that tension was actually a really productive tension.
you are sort of checking man. Are you just trying to fit this end because you cut of wanting to make more of a bigger thing right. Rumours are actually a good story year, one of the other
entrance was this idea of like how much to be a field I that related to what.
Have needed most cities and how much to tell
the best and most interesting story possible, and I think we haven't. We
the line really well but
Recently we thought about each step of the way like I have. A particular affinity for
kind of the most interesting story about the most every day or mundane thing. Like that's my favorite version of this, that's kind, the heart of the fuel guide as a concept
but there's so many things that dont quite fit into that that we just we're just excited about
like especially new things like when you come back with some research about stuff, that
you know we never recovered and the show those were my favorite, because I often get
you like if I've covered in Amerika like I know it can so like when he came back with us.
Berrigan in various other things like that was really the type the thing that I was like really really jazzed about when it came to putting the book together it for me to like as a person who is yet our fail of the show for years before. I joined the show there are some fun in revisiting old old stories and instead of looking at the raw material and look at what has happened since the noise or published answered of rethinking at all for the book and end
The Chicago River comes to mind and in we talked about the scholar River or you did in a in an old episode deal. It was when we do years ago with ten Weissmann, but you know in the book we talk about it in a different way. I found some more history to that that was cut upon an interesting, and so we in the Epp within the book was this kind of combination of something's, drawn from the episode some some sort of new developments in the case, and then some more history too. So it's totally is fun for me to die,
into some of the classics, unlike expand on that materials were here, and it really is a different thing to create a book verses, to create a story for upon cast
A of people asked us about like how it differs like
audio storytelling in terms of structure and approach,
when you writing for audio. You know
its linear. You know that people
or only hearing it in order once and their knots
scanning it the same way that they do when it comes to written text and so there's this process of reiterating the point. You know anecdote reflection, anecdote reflection and reiterating a point, and it is
something that it does not work in text, and it was something that was really clear when we started working with Kate are editor at each of age. She really help guide and put us in a direction towards a more written format. It was just learning new skill, especially for me for sure o for me too, and just the levelling up
It happened as we got more involved with them and involve them more in the process. So for us we started out riding essays and it started to graduate towards sections. But you know soon enough: we were sending these essays in sections to the editor and getting back feedback at the kind of granular level, and then it it took a long time to come to build that up until these larger chapters and each stage of the review it was like. We would
something bigger her in wait a little longer but get more feedback in, but fortunately early on in the process, we did get a lot of guidance from them about what does and doesn't work in a book which helped us decide. You know how are we to tie different stories together,
it turned out. I had an idea early on that, but you know each story would really clearly dovetail movement here and they did not want that. Kate was this like no people when I read it my way, I remember
one. We we you and I like ladybird over these hand,
a final sentences that would lead right to the next essay and Kate KIT. Nepal tunnel was like a fantastic editor who did amazing work with us in always kind it
what kind of just like you don't need to do this, like
if they're going to read the next one? They read the next one, if they're not, and if you really mean it that that people can skip around and re different parts, then it just doesn't help and it was like
oh yeah, I guess you're right, but I really like we had all
I'm turning of like
If there is one table, sends most consistently cut, it was probably one of these like pithy hand off sentences that leads directly to the first paragraph of the next S, a fright, and we ended up with a kind of compromise where it it's it's like it. If you do keep reading, you will connect the dots and we're not gonna connect those dots for you, but if you're reading straight through use, it's like a little Easter rang out, like you're eating straight through you'll catch under the connections between these different pieces,
you're? Not gonna forced to read straight through in order to make those connections either, and you can jump or exactly exactly, and it was all that whole process. Everything about the process a was, I think, pretty smooth like it. It was like a really good. They were good collaborators and innocence, but one thing that was just really different was but
I'm learning of a book I mean, like you know we do a show every week it takes. Maybe
sixty eight weeks to make an episode of the show. So there's always this constant turn you put out articles. You know, like
there was a little bit less than one. When you were a kid
sets timing about asylum seekers.
Would you needed to, but you
consistently over the years it without me or two or three articles week. It sometimes you know it's always. You know we're very used to a production process that has a different metabolism than that of the of a book creation having a long deadline. That's really far in the future, like what is what happens with the book is terrible and what makes it almost a screw.
it is having a weekly deadline that runs
In parallel to that that, I feel like the only way the long deadline at the book worked really was to break it
down to the Lord no lines. Ok, we're we're gonna have chapter a version of chapter one by acts of virgin to chapter to buy. Why it's like? Where do you start? How do you find the kind of motivation to the new this? If you doubt in any one of the surprise us to be able to look back- and I think it so silly- but I I told you no friends and family towards the end of twenty nine Tita.
well we'll both through the hard part in it seems so diy that I'd say it's just it's a process and a key.
going and assumes you done with one thing. You ve got a kind of move on to the next, whether its working with
illustrator and working with the designer there's, there's always something to be done, and the text is part of that. The text is a key.
part of that. But it is an honour for sure no loses out by along its deciding on illustrations in
in design in color and the printing, and
You know everything about. It was just so complicated and in one of those things that we were really involved in because one of the pit
of ammunition about design is that the book you make better be good.
I think it is good it better,
eat. Well, it better flow.
It better have a reason for existing. Let that was my main thing is like is like. I already get the opportune
to tell millions of people stories about design.
So why should a book exist in? What can I do that? The shocking
do and that something that we were constantly thinking about, of how to exploit those differences between a book and upon cast and web.
type in. So all those things required so much.
I mean so much so that I think each image was shocked at the level of detail
especially you were right in them. Well, yeah. I think they expected about their use to authors opposite authoring right. There writing they're doing the text stuff, but of course you know we're interested in design. So we want to work with the designer we want to work with illustrator. We want to make this a designed object, and I have this background in architecture, and so I'm not a great designer but like, but I at least like the process and know how it works, and so a lot of it. It was her navigating this, this challenging thing, which you always have to navigate with designers, which is to say.
figure out what their strengths are. So we spent, for example, a lot of time looking at the portfolios of both Patrick Veil and rapid Journey, who were the illustrator and designer of the book and saying: ok, how can we lean into their strengths? How can we sort of give them the freedom to do what they do well, but make sure we also cover the things that we need to cover in the course of this design process.
So when we went through in took every story we ve ever told and whatever format and put it into a big spreadsheet and rank them from one to five about what to include in the book. We both quickly settled on the first one being the official growth,
It had an explosion. It seemed like a good thing that people would see everywhere. There was a story behind it. We can teach people how to decode it
in ways that are really fun an obvious and so on,
That being kind of one of the first ones we settled on this leads me to one of the last ones we included, so
It was a drama in San Francisco with these boulders witches in chapter six, which is really the last story that we included at all
and remember you asking me like: like is worth it. You know I can't you pretty, but
rankled in retired from the four hundred pages. Rarely just felt like, like I also is worried I was like is: is the publisher got us a guy?
You have this without having a serpent, it's like it can we can. We convince them just sleep
one last year and its ruling,
obsolete is so much of what we were talking about already in chapter six that it was just like. I think we gotta do it one of the questions that we ve got last, who, as you know, what's your favorite peace and that's hard to kneel down. I really like the first piece in the book. I do think it sort of captures the essence of the book really well, but in some ways some of my favorite pieces are the ones I had a fight for you. So there is some consideration of of cutting a few pieces.
is one of which was the piece about standardized time. Re wrote businesses story of how
Brent towns had to finally sort coordinating their clocks, because the train was
and then they had to get on the same schedule it. What I realize sort of going back over this is that it wasn't super clear. It is probably too long. I could see how it wasn't working. I really thought that the ideas in it worth keeping and that it was a story were telling just in short or for who yeah, and so it became one of my favorites because it became one I had to work
in order to justify keeping it in the book. Basically yeah. I do. I remember a sitting in my kitchen table and.
Going over that one and me being
The naysayers who does was like this is too complicated, like people, people can't do math in this. In this way and asking you questions about like wise as important and
haven't you, Reno obviously does come through with it, and I remember you like
I've more recently in the deep dive with the book, because I've been reading it. You know in its in the studio loud and
That's a great section. It really works, like you did a great job, making that like relevant and now
complicated and make people understand what it really meant to stand
rise time when this,
not a concern of people at all, for you know millennia yet, and I remember that conversation to an end, it was like I needed. I got it like. I understood why I was so attached to it, but I needed some way. I basically did you to talk to you and you D say: ok, it just explain it to me like this. No read it just explain it to me and once I did, you saw the cut of passion I had for it. I think we both reels. Ok, there's something here. It's just not fully on the page right now so like we gotta go back to that,
on board a bit and and figure out how to simplify this and streamline this, so that it just a compelling store and that's where we tried to do for every story over and over again page after page or putting this book together, and it comes out today, Brazil and one of them
Kurt posted for working so hard on. Every aspect of this book is talent
and attention to detail is unparalleled, and I also
I think, the nine ivy idea for reporting, so many, the originals worries me told and also take
the slack when we had our heads down trying to power through the writing in the editing and
wanna. Thank you. You beautiful nerds for supporting us this far.
And buying copies were all your friends and family. It's a really.
But from nerdy dad forgotten
That is the good, but for him I say this as a nerdy dad. You should skip giving him the biography of some
a war to general this year, and even this book instead, all the pre order
It is up to this point and the sails from this week. Some together,
to give us our place on the best seller charts. I really want to be in the bizarre charts, so this is the time to act. Get your computer,
an ip, I dot org slash book
Many members, an invisible, was police this week by Kurt costed Music,
I shall now do hall is, as you know, producer veracity is crisper. Ruby emit Fitzgerald, Christopher Johnson Sophia Cluster Miller, Vivian lay Abeam Adon Katy men.
Joe Rosenberg, and me roman moors
your product, another one point, seven Caille W in San Francisco and Produced-
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We're a founding member of Radio Tokyo from Pierre acts are fiercely independent, collective, but the most innovative listeners supported one hundred percent artist, own podcast in the world fund more at
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Dot org, Slash book.
Transcript generated on 2020-10-19.