In this set of short stories, 99% Invisible producers talked with host Roman Mars about everything from climate-changing sheep to the persistent urban legend behind the invention of a space pen.
Mini-Stories: Volume 10
99% Invisible’s Impact Design coverage is supported by Autodesk. Autodesk enables the design and creation of innovative solutions to the world’s most pressing social and environmental challenges. Learn more about these efforts on Autodesk Redshift, a site that tells stories about the future of making things across architecture, engineering, infrastructure, construction and manufacturing.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is ninety nine percent, invisible, I'm roman Mars. Is this
two of the twenty twenty twenty twenty one. Many stories episodes where I interview
the staff and our collaborators about their favorite little stories from the built world. They dont quite fill out.
Tire episode for whatever reason, but their cool man in IBM stories. Nonetheless, we have space pens, see sheep, but don't make me
turn a second circular design
a seasonal national forest populated by all Christmas trees stay with us.
so I'm talking with Emmett Fitzgerald. What is the many story you have rocks? Are it so,
came across this story. Why was reporting? Are our peat bogs episode from a couple weeks back? It's it's also a scottish climate change story,
in a certain way, climate change stories, scottish or otherwise it is definitely your beat, but we'll get Russia will get like climate change part in a little bit, but first I want it in
Did you see the Sean tear it? She is a woman who lives on a tiny island in Scotland, called North Ronald see which
is the northernmost island on Orkney, which is just north of Scotland
is it really small island is about five miles along and one more wide
at the moment, is got sixty two residents.
of which you are one, was something when we arrived, it was made
fifties, so it them is gonna blow. But since we arrived, there's been too.
Families arrives since we moved here, which is the greater the hunt.
he had more people all the way back in the seventeen hundreds,
the main industry at the time with sea weed, it's really stormy
therein so there's. There's kelp like lots of helped us constantly washing up on the beaches and people
a north rounds would gather it up and it was used to make iodine or or sometimes burned, to make potash, which was a common industrial chemical at the time said they
They, you know really booming industry in the seventeen hundreds, and they had about five hundred people living here at the time
and both, firstly, that help industry collapsed souls. Fifty
two years later, and so
the islanders and needed in a new industry a new way to support themselves and they decided to really focus in on agriculture at and cattle specifically, but the issue with that was that it's a really tiny island than they had
limited space for cows in particular that they decide that there was.
grass to share between the cows and the sheep, and so eight eighteen, thirty two they came together in hatch this plan they were gonna build.
A stone wall all
the way around the island in order to separate the sheep from the cattle
here. The idea was that they would pay, would save all that good grass in the middle of the island for the cows, wherein the sheep supposed to go there.
Well, there's lots and lots of this sort is interesting, so the the stone why that that dyke, as they call it, basically pushed
all of the islands sheep onto the shore line where they were supposed to survive by eating all that seaweed
Ever since eighteen thirty, two the sheep of being kept just on the beaches, are they learned
survive way. It's in the sea weed and you are kind of like shit.
Three against this and six foot
a dyke which goes all the way around the island of this work. The do like sheep were able to survive on the beach eating
yeah so over over the years centuries, really the sheep basically learned how to eat. Kelp and sir
I've entirely off helping. Now, if you visit North Ronald's eel, see hundreds of sheep waiting into the
waters around the shore line and just like munching on kelp,
so they tend to waive the low tide, though, if the worst go out was gonna reveals all of the fresh sea weed
and their own flux down right now.
the war taking as its not to store manned and just kind of life.
Stop feasting and you see them
tackling these huge like franzl cope. I'm just!
let munching it down. Then straight away
and you see some animals kind of ice swimming out too little rocks
the kind of waiting out to get the freshest and the Bessie that they possibly can do. So
lovely and whimsical little floating sheep out on your shoreline, even more
well then I imagined they are totally Johns
Maybe they don't look like the kind of pristine white scottish sheep that you imagine she says there. They sort of look more like a kind of like Greece,
although, like seafaring sailor, sheep, yes M, the rounds spoke, they lead, pray back,
by the weather. I guess we're going peg legs
Exactly so was it hard wishing to adapt to their marine lifestyle? I mean like how do you make
amphibia sheep. The I asked Sean about this. The archaeological evidence suggests
Sheep were actually eating some seaweed before that see other so much seaweed on on the shore line, and that's probably in what gave the Islanders in eighteen. Thirty two: the idea that this might work, but you know, after the war went up, they had to adjust to a diet that was entirely ups. He read, which is, is actually pretty different food
then grass on a chemical level seaweed is very low and copper, which is something that will end in quite small doses. But you still need a lower of copper in your dad
to function and what they do. What they have evolved to become is very sensitive to the copper in their diet, so they can extract. You know every sort of single milligram of God,
available in the sea weed
some forty when they go and glass they can base of over sensitive to the coupling grass and amateur actually get couple poisoning, and that is that the most
copper, sensitive animals that we that we know of
and the whole world say they ve done an amazing java over that
into their environment in order to get what they need for men but better so fascinating, the idea that they could put himself was copper because they are so adapter. Taken in whenever a copper is available, is so cool, yeah yeah, it's command on! What's
amazing to me that they had all because of its wall. You know like that they visited changed because of this piece of human infrastructure. It's like changed their biology, that's while so,
they can't climb the wall and we like, like its lack of this whole time, and they never had a sheep, go free. No, I,
the occasional I mean they know they get copper poisoning because occasionally they will have understood home, whirling and actually Sean said that there is some there's been stories of sheep climbing onto each other's backs to get over the
but the vast majority of the sheep have have been maintained their
shore line lifestyle over two centuries,
because this, what this wall as their end- and you know that the way the system works as the sheep are are owned by individual people on the island, individual farmers, but their managed collectively and and so that it- and that includes the wall, the walls maintenance is sort of it.
collective project by all of the ship owners on the island and so Asia for generations that shipowners have worked together to keep this thing standing, but but keep keep em like this wall is, is twelve miles long. It's actually one of the longest rise stone
I was in the world will help me like a leg. It doesn't have mortar, like a justice like like stacks of stones, right,
that that makes even more amazing that had spent so robust for so long as well,
Yes, and no like it's. It's kind of constantly crumbling and falling down in places, and so it's this been this like years long project to maintain it, and that's been that you have the job of of of the islands
but you know over the years as the human population of North Ronald's, he has diminished. It's been harder in here,
and so I can at times they built some centre fencing to plug some of the gaps. But it's you know it's been. It's been a problem
men so, and so has year. They came together
and they decided like
let's hire some young fit whippersnapper to go to like it seems like job. It would be just like deal with this problem and and fix the walnut that their full time job and the person who answered the job posting was Sean
just sounded yeah really know. Adela had spent a lot of time on different islands and women,
places and on just one
had to find a job. That would have me so outdoors from waste their time better. Maybe I could pick Tony Lucy why she did that commits council ideal to me too. She spent
most of our time does like walking around the island and and making sure that the sheep or are on the right side of the wall and then looking for gaps and places where the stone Wall needs to be repaid
and then it's basically on her. She rebuild those spot by hand using rocks that are there on the beach or you know the rocks that were originally part of the wall. It fell down,
but again, there's no mortar to keep everything together. You ve gotta pick exactly the right rock for the right.
Place. It reminds me of bum arising stacking would, I think, is like
and jigsaw puzzle
but on the whole is really therapeutic by things is to spend some time and we welcome your hands over she does she do my bit. You know the task is is enormous and at other times I can feel
totally says Sophia, like you just heard, calling around the island as soon as you fix something. There is something else that needs to be fixed. The plan before the pandemic was actually for Sean to sort of
In addition to working on the wall to coordinate a volunteer programme so that you know you get more people to come and visit North Wild C and they would help rebuild the wall, but but that all has some gun put,
on hold with with covered such trust, her and she just just keeps added- he heard little little by little bed every day at a time. I really feels like a folk tail or or leg.
A model in short story, although its citizens are maudlin, but it has. That bears the qualities of that yet totally.
exactly. I got a little bit of what what drew me to innocent of imagining her working to preserve this rare breed of sheep. You know like one one stone at a time when some cool, so at the top- you? U mentions the climate change or two houses, a climate story. As you probably know, livestock produce a huge amount of greenhouse gases. Yeah course you not to their their parts in their burps which which do off methane. Mostly other gases, tuba, mostly methane and and and cows, are the worst offenders here, but that livestock, it as a whole, are summed up by some estimates are responsible for about fifteen percent of all greenhouse gas emissions globally. So it's it's like a
massive thing that we need the erratic. We deal with a fork and deal with climate change, but but recently there has been this kind of interesting development because it saw a few different scientists from around the world have studied and figured out tat if you feed cows, sea weed
You can actually really dramatically reduce their methane emissions. How ok? That's so all that
Oh, I can see how that ties in now
That's it you're, seeing a ton, a ton of research into this right now into seaweeds in Catalan and which types of seaweeds reduce methane. How much you would need to add to their food, so you ve got
near the background over all this research going on. It's mostly focused on cows, but, but you know, sheep also produce methane, and so are you know the thing that I guess this in terms of our story, the cool thing is you, you got the sheep on North Ronald Z and empty
Theoretically, we need to add anything to their type. It in mind to do anyway, prevailing bonnets, but so funny
you know there's a lot we don't know, but but the thinking is that may be. The sheep have important information things that
that that people can learn about how sheep and cows, in their stomachs break down seaweed and what's going on in Canada,
local level, but I'm sure it will be beneficial to look
the sheep are here. The richly surviving losing weight in the whole time potentially live,
In these unique enzymes and got bacteria that- and we really useful to science- I just goes to show you. I guess the region
pour into so save all these different reveries and not just have one. You know one breeders of sea,
The sheep available.
so our scientists like flocking to North Ronald, leads us to study the sheep and in your savers, longing the agricultural picking does that leave us even dislike, save us from being inundated with methane from from cheap parts. I think
at some scientists of have begun to look at this boat, but again, like that's kind of been Mina, put on pause because of the pandemic.
but yeah. I think I think that would be a really fascinating thing to look at in like what it. What is the kind that contribution of the North Ronald the sheep population? Maybe it's nothing, maybe maybe it isn't. Maybe maybe these Phil live. Maybe they stole. It made a lot of methane, but I think it's worth looking at, and so when Sean first got there, it was really
about. You know just sort of the cultural heritage of preserving a sheep, and now this sort of like this scientific reason too, that, like maybe these sheep, have important. You know information inside of them. That could be beneficial for, for science, really,
yeah. That's amazing that it makes it even more of a folk to tail. It just goes to show how you just like chance, had like the importance of maintaining rare breeds and variety and culture, because
you never know. What's gonna save us yeah, it's it's really. It's really stunning was such tat such a good story. I love it. I love it. I'm nothing about this a lot
about about being the Wall Builder on the island of north will hopefully now haven't you
dream job, that's that's right! Now
I think, John. I think she is serving a three year.
Term. So when it's over, maybe my application ready
or you know you know again, I know I've done us suggests
Are you going to Scotland Fer to see the people like I'm on your way up from the people? You could make it stop in and be a volunteer building the long, I'm so on board with Us Winkie. You think I might be joking just for the sake of the agreement on the radio I am so
on board, but as they are now to expect here,
expect your service.
Thank you so much. I thank you
So every published our book than ninety nine percent, invisible city, Mercosur,
when I read it to answer some questions from vans and in one of them asked us if we'd be interested in covering left handedness, so Kurt wrote an article about that,
Challenges of being left in a world may
they designed for writings, but it also reminded him of another story that he's been warning to tell and it's about an object designed not just for left handed or right handed people, but for anyone anywhere- and I do mean-
yes anywhere, and this idea has been sitting. I myself for a while- and it starts with this anecdote, but I've heard since I was
kid it's kind of like an urban legend or job, and it goes like this during the space race NASA supposedly
He spent millions of dollars developing a space bed
the Soviets just used a pencil,
I heard it too. I mean it's pretty funny, but it totally sounds focus
it really is. The reality is that for a long time,
both the? U S and soviet space programmes struggled to figure out ways to write in space and they had tried on things like regular pencils and mechanical pencils. Fragments
graphite floating around, we really dangerous. Even Greece, pencils could flacon break apart and is really big mess
as part of the story, that does the part that never rang true to me, because if you ve ever seen
when the pencil little things float around and look there.
The ground all over it, and you can imagine that just like working away into any type of electronic exerts on things like
there's a reason why you wouldn't have a pencil and by its absolute they they have to keep track of everything up there. You can have little particulates they could like clog. The air filters are like best with the electronics make. This is like life threatening re brain.
Oh that's where this fishers
he's been actually
has come in it. Ok, so the sort of a pocketful nature of the two different styles and ask me like an inch otherwise
Thomas. You may be a little bit heightened and a little bogus, but there
it was really a space pan back. I mean yes,
like any good urban legend, there are bits of truth. Obtrusiveness, like it really did, cost billions of dollars to develop, but it wasn't made by NASA. It was made for now
and every other space agency that wanted
the guy? Who made it was then Paul Fisher, any just took it upon himself to figure out how to make a pen for space that would work in any conditions like extreme temperatures, zero gravity,
and he did all this guarantee and he solved it
and then did he just listened at all these space agencies like for millions of dollars. You know I would have thought so at home at the letter by him, but now here
he put it all this research and the just sold them basically at cost her in a retail prices, Eddie Space Agency that interested in it
These are really important for these agencies, because keeping manual records and space of read out.
Computers and everything else is really important and
just kind of blows my mind that all these literal rocket scientist with their attention
detail and safety and everything else and be able to crack this thing? But this private businessman just said: I'm going to do it, I'm going to solve this and I'm going to make a pendant.
the space, and so how did you do and how these medical pens actually work? The key, basically is nitrogen, pressurized hermetically sealed ink cartridges so think about it.
Most pansies gravity to drain ink down onto a page, but these pens actively push the ink out
and while they were made for use in space, they approved pretty popular on earth to, and they prove popular with right handed people, especially lefthanded people. To ok. So tell me how I sort of aunt I gravity pen can help a left in a person in particular like walk, walk me through the mechanics of that right, so listen
Imagine a ballpoint pen for comparison now as a radio person, you hold it in your hand and you can of dragon across the page and that
It's fine and gravity drains think out, but if you put it in your left hand and you writing from left to right, you're, basically working
against the mechanism sort of jamming the pen into the page and the ink just doesn't PLO properly so rehab, because when the right hand, your dragging across a pay
So your pulling that ball with ink on it, but with the left hand, you're pushing it into the page and therefore the Incas employing properly and getting another. That makes some sense. Sober
space spam. It really doesn't matter how you hold it because it has the nitrogen pressurized ink, and so it has rights, no matter what exactly
It has no direction alley at all. You could be a right
you can be lucky. You could be sitting back in your chair and holding a pad up in the air and writing upside down. If you want it so
was made for people who are literally having out to explore the universe, but it turns out to be a pretty b
universal design on earth to her it's almost
We should revise that apocryphal story and say every
This agency in the world wanted a space pan and no agency. Actually did it government agency did it, but a scrappy entrepreneur
I believe that installed it to them that about
The story is use the example of the wastefulness of a government based bureaucracy, but it turns out that the true story is extremely american,
to this day Fisher cells, all these different space, pins and in cartridges- and I even have one myself because it's nice to have operated-
I have a pen where you don't have to worry about it like drying out on you good sentence. You can just kind of throw it in your backpack
and it goes anywhere with you, so I think it's great guy at the very
we can entrepreneurial story, and I think personally, that this is
is good as these original story, I'm in the lesson of the regional story and I'll keep it simple government bureaucracy that the lesson we can learn a lot of places, but this is just a lesson of tenacity and and figuring out what turned out to be a relatively
simple engineering solution
applying it and selling it to the world. This is like more of a true story of design of admiration
in perfection and then being rewarded for exactly exactly so
you're interested in courts longer article about lefthanded design, its titled left behind appropriately, and you can run embedded in this upsets web companion at night.
The view celebrate Christmas in the traditional western ways. Probably within the past couple weeks, you had
intend with what to do with your old Christmas tree.
I'm going to live in San Francisco. I remember that people would collect other people strings from the curb before that. Greenway struck could pick them up and drag them all to ocean beach to make the biggest bonfire I've ever seen. The flames were like fifty feet all. It actually scared me, but if you like
in normal Alaska, your old Christmas
service ennobled purpose. It will become part of the seasonal nomes national Forest, easier, all dressed,
trees, are arranged in the Barents Sea ice in front of no into it
temporary display, which they accept with wooden, stand up of
cartoon characters and a sign that reads appropriately nome
forest. You can
the pictures online. It is delightful principally in there
when the ice begins to mount an caretakers,
like the wooden cut out and the sign, and eventually the ice breaks up in, carries the old Christmas trees out to sea.
We have more minutes after this.
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For this modest way we're going to do something a little bit different everyone's awhile. With the help of the Autodesk Foundation, we like to cover impact.
What does design that's focused on making the world a better place and to that end,
I can well believe Us Falco, who is the impact and design lead at the Autodesk Foundation, about some innovative design approaches to environmental sustainability towards known
Circular parity is very high.
So you come on. You taught me a little bit about
regularity and different companies that are thinking of circular ready in a new way. Soap. First,
What's to start with, what is the definition of circular irony?
simple definition of, is to use a product at its highest value
as long as possible, and that can mean the product itself, its material or the component. It's made of
and for this union to build circular system or closed loop system that basically
I mean, remains the use of resources, input and the creation of waste, and this is
goes to a linear system in which you get a bunch of materials you manufactured into something
and then eventually you just throw that away the straight line to the garbage dump, yet
a closed loop systems like reusing sharing, repairing refurbishing remanufacturing recycling
regenerative by design. I think
most people when they probably hear the word circular charity, they probably think of the word recycling. What is the difference between the two sides,
Oh, I'm in recycling is one piece of the puzzle for sexuality and it's a great promise that it's not working alone. You know, otherwise we will be sending so much into landfilled. Actually, today, recycle
Oh, you know nine percent of plastic. I think everyone wasted about thirty percent, nine percent of classic, while the difference
Yes, I think so. Clarity is that it goes way beyond recycling. I'm thinking about
but the models like reusing ivory manufacturing like refurbishing
it's also based into not only the material that the products are made of meaning.
and into cans paper into paper and so forth. These really thinking about the product
their design and the way their manufacture, so still thinking about the business model in which this product are being built and then the infrastructure that support these credit.
Lifecycle, meaning boost infrastructure that are hardly.
Like the waste management facilities, but also the infrastructure that our software and the data they inside? The information that flows across the product lifecycle, so you control today
with a few examples of companies you
using circular already in innovative ways to try to explain the concept. So would it? What is the first one you have on back
the first one is the containing cautious, the seventh street design, and I love them. It's there really about rethinking the design and the manufacturing of the products so
fifty seven street design and they make furniture they don't
single design circulation, which is a service that take back, restoring, be circulate the furniture
and they really had to rethink the design itself.
his furniture so that they can
create a system where they never discarded anything in the furniture better
they re circulate them from home to home in perpetuity basically
But they make sure that a table? That's a pretence.
we trashed in one home is being
used as another piece of furniture and another home. Eventually, they have differing design
principle. The first one is that there are using silly it hard words and Henriette finishes to ease the repair. Dirty ended
the idea of this product they make sense just make
of high quality, and then you don't problem. Why
chicken is around standardization, so they are working in two having parts of these furniture that can be transferred from one type of furniture.
to the other, for instance, if your table leg
are broken. You can replace them with your legs, are replaced pride of the stable into a debt, for instance they also thinking about the ease of this assembly.
so that they can be pair, these books, part of their furniture and that's interesting because, typically, when you think
ease of assembly. Andy's assembly are furniture, you think of IKEA and typically Atr turnover,
almost single use, furniture, unfreezing cleaners and related issue. That is the opposite of circular. It just goes in one direction: it exactly that here they are taking the same same principle associated too
Did you to assemble design, but we
the mindset that you can easily disaster
You told them and therefore I prepared these books, parts of this design and these furniture
so something the rule that the innovation in total with them is like to use the design of the product to aid circular.
Everything is made, so can be decisive.
Old reused refurbished, and this
the fundamental part of the design is not done after the fact exactly and I keep on
thank, you will not recycles something if it hasn't been designed to be recycled. It's alright! It's hard to recycle something when it
has been designed to be recycled. So if it's not
This is really, I think, you're company, that exemplified ideas like thinking circular at the design space security starts,
design. So what's another aspect of irregularity or theirs,
innovative approaches other than that you ve seen so
talk to you about the importance of rethinking our infrastructure was from you know, hardware and software almost perspective, and I think there is a company that exemplifies that quite well cold and providing MP robotics and
make a I based robots to improve way, citation at waste management facilities
I'm sued at a high level, it's basically robot that teacup trash, though
dissertation lying in these facilities in right through a conveyor belt, and the Roma
sensors? What's what pulls out the recycling stuff or like maybe pushes it with a puff of air and in separate it from the trash?
exactly answer these robots, our train in recognising material
I've been different types of trash
to train these robots and providing needs a lot of,
dad I'm a k, a basically pictures of trash to help them recognise emperor.
But it is today so successful. I went there doing that major consumer brands are practically sending them teachers or design,
of their new products. Before they even hit the market markets. The robots can learn
these new recycling try
that are coming their way like, for example, they are currently working with caring doktor paper that introduced new recyclable key cut parts for coffee
parties, like is like the single serving coffee thing that goes into her up.
You probably Nord, maybe not, but
paths are non recyclable,
and so you know when now they're going in to recycling management, I studied there not sorted out and they go straight to lend shields.
now that you have one brand doing recyclable, take up tied? How do you sort specifically just take a part, and so
the example here that they gave me was that they are working directly with the company on ensuring that the robot can recognise the specific Kika pod.
inside them so that they end up in proper recycling and streams. So, in essence, what?
what's happening, is to ensure
circular parity of materials that the companies that that make things and make make
bottles and holders in and little single, serving packs of ground coffee
are feeding than information to and probiotics, so that when
they come into the waste stream. They reckoned
I know how to recycle them exactly
I think today, when really one is the issue that we run into, is dad's design,
please don't, has the right information of what can be recycled or a night and then
Waste management facilities have limited information about what is coming their way and therefore they count adapt their infrastructure to actually handle what needs to be raised
I called ensued: what's really interesting ways and provided Cosette
They are connecting the dots and basically closing the loop, as we like to say, a circular ready with both the dad
and the insides from flowing from this convention to the waste management facility and the hardware that is actually making this
irritation process more efficient, so whatever aspect of regularity but other companies are using to make the rope less wasteful.
then the last example is a little bit maybe starts to start with
similar story that, with we ve heard about security, which is really around. How are we? How will we handling the amount of waste that we're sitting?
on right now in kind of soldiering. Also, the plastic problem.
Circumventing called the plastic road and
Recycling plastic into prefabricate,
the roads and they are actually modular pieces of road that our containing your training systems and they work like a legal box. I'm so you can just
them in and that some boys into the road and actually it can also be pulled out pretty easily.
its using recycler content. It also can be recycled, not spare time
and so these are modular roads or somebody is, is kind of like a pre made piece of plastic that you can drive over your bike or a maid for cars
well yeah. This started with some biplane. Then they have made some strength, states that shows that Carson dry them well and so there
or you can lay down a road that has better drainage, because it's it's sort of manufactured in this way and it can be laid down really quickly, because the young pieces are proof,
and joined together, and then it's a road look exactly
so like it's faster to build because it is prefab and unjust illegal box. It's much lighter
less carbon emission because it comes from recycled sources and doesn't require any excavation, no heavy foundation, no concrete or I salts layer. Wait when you think about the the concept a circular already like, and what is this project or tapping into for you like? What? What is it achieving? That gives you some kind of Pope, or you think, is on the right
it's kind of this concept. We you Dixon currents. Clarity, love to Turkey is the idea of city as material banks and the
Dear that, you know, when you gonna build something you you can look into what is already there into your own cd and maybe what is soon
He demolish that. You could areas
I called are reuse, and you know this aid.
Yeah I've cities as material Dank is also the idea like all gilding. An infrastructure can become
resources for a new building, new infrastructure and other industry was in that city, because I, like the most about these examples of that
the heart of this seemed to be about sharing information. So if you know that this much
Astrogas generated by your city over time or that that building is
come down and all the steel which can be made available. That, then, you know,
but you can build and as long as you have all the information it passed through to the right people, you can closed. Loop
when your circular ready by really just having a this material bank as he as you call it
to reach into women buildings with without creating more waste its current stunning, and it was just like it's my favorite part design is the port of it. That's a common sense into the hurdle that its, it seems, like you know,
is that the method for obtaining new materials hum is
oh streamlined and simple, and the method
forgetting use materials is more complicated and it seems like the big hurdle. Then is to just make the
both the information and access to recycle materials.
easy to get as it is to order something new head of a catalogue, exactly I mean I think,
your comment on an information and data is really spot on. It's like
clarity is really gonna, be on look when we have,
Information, that's true throughout the entire lifecycle, end value chain of products, material and components, and we really need to have data the centre that start connecting stakeholders throughout this life cycle, so life, even the old the exam.
plus connecting designer was waste management facility, but there is also a materials players with you know, manufacturers and so forth. You can look at its different.
What's throughout that cycle
I think there is another thing is also a concept that you know, typically with the set of that single,
the mindset of recycling and once again the idea that we are recovering material to make always the same product. There is this
and said that material, then downgrade
and therefore lows value and really
to unlock Sir Clarity, we need to sort of cross pudding AIDS, these
you changed so that maybe
The waste from one industry becomes really valuable in another industry and with stop kind of this vicious circle of
downgrade right. Boughs of value.
material as red strike, the damaging because of you
the two endlessly recycle, a plastic bottle. Eventually, the placid becomes so degraded that it doesn't service a plastic bottle anymore. But if you took a somewhat degraded plastic bottle, you could make the perfect road with it and therefore it it doesn't get a great in the same way, and so alike is like the old
of one man stretches another man's treasure exactly, but today the information does unease as seen
industry and will even within an industry, there are often doesn't even leave a single company. So how do you unlock that information so that the next spring?
in building their roads know that there is all this pile of class.
Trash and this factory waiting for someone to use it
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Transcript generated on 2021-01-14.