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as the doomsday bunker, there is a huge amount of subterranean space that were not aware of around us all the time for those of us who live in, urban and rural areas. It's not unlikely that one of your neighbours has a bunker and meet their house that you don't know about. This is broadly garret. I'm the author of. Incur building for the Times people I've always built survival shelters to stay saying from things like playing sir hurricanes, but in money history we really are done ourselves. There are tens of thousands of governor and military bonkers around the world and every day, people are building private bunker space. Simple backyard shelters to luxury, on those that extend hundreds of feet underground? You know what she said, Looking for bunkers, you see them everywhere, and this episode

it will be our guide to the fascinating world of architecture for the end times and we're gonna find out. Why today were going through a true renaissance? What's a little bit about the modern bunker as it relates to the Cold war and the FAO doomed, so tell me about what what happened during the first doom boom. Well, essentially, what happens in the middle of the cold war is then it becomes clear that The threat of nuclear war is very real, and governments have to make a decision Are they going to try and build shelter for their entire population, as some governments actually do this as Switzerland, famously built buggered space for every single human being in the? populous in fact their space for more than everyone. So there I don't. I guess

visitors were in town. They have a place to go as well for one year, but in the United States. That is vision, was made not to build these spaces because the nuclear strategies that brought these numbers to the Eisenhower government I mean the numbers were astronomical. It was essentially that the government's gdp for an entire year to shelter the population So a decision was made in secret to build bunkers for politicians and their aides, but not their families. Interesting Lee that becomes you know the snowball effect there becomes a sort of difficult to deal with, but when Kennedy takes power. He is clearly uncomfortable with the idea that people don't know what kind of danger therein, and so he gives this famous speech where he says that I'm paraphrasing

here in our conflict with the Soviet Union. It's not provocation that we seek but preparation. Our primary purpose is neither propaganda you're, probably what preparation tomorrow I am requesting the Konrad move on following media objecting to identify and marked bathed in existing structures, public and private that could be used for fallout, shelter. He sends out this admonishment everyone. If you have the resources, build a bunker for yourself and your family in it. You have to look after yourselves, and so this triggers this that what we call

The first doom boom this multi million dollar industry that springs up overnight of private contractors who were suddenly rushing to excavate people's backyards and build nuclear fallout shelters. Why didn't it seemed like a good idea for the? U S to build, tells us for every citizen. It was just a broad core concern of doing the numbers to widespread too expensive or giving there's something fundamentally different about voice jumped and governance. People why Switzerland would have placed for everyone plus one or was it is practical. That decision has something to do with the way that we imagine the United States as a kind of collective of individuals, but the logistics of building buggered space for

Every American was also just incredibly complicated cuz. It's a huge country. People are really spread out. It wouldn't be fair, for instance, to say if you live in a densely populated urban area, we're going to make sure that you have access to puckered space, because logistically we can offer that But if you live in a rural area, well, you're on your own near the government did make an effort to build, follow, shelters rather than blast shelters in rates of transforming parking garages, for instance, into his face that people could hide out in, but that's a far cry from what many governments did so could you define the difference between a fallout, shelter and oblige shelter, or maybe you know, follow children a bunker? As you see in the traditional cold war calculation, there are two kinds of shelters: there's a blast shelter which can take a direct it from a nuclear weapon and there's a fallout shelter, which is a shelter you would hide in for fourteen days, fourteen days being the magic number when radiation levels fall to the point to which you can sort of safe

emerged from the bumper into the post apocalyptic world. So it's a lot cheaper to build a fallout shelter. Obviously you know you don't have to reinforce it to the same degree. It doesn't have to be buried, deeply underground, and so Many followed shelters were built during the cold war, and many of those were private. They were built in people's backyards. The fear of nuclear war started receiving in the nineteen nineties at least my fear of nuclear war started receiving the ninety. Nine is as in any right that some of these private bunkers were converted into pantries and nurseries for kids. What happened all the government bunkers? If you think about the the sums of money that were invested in constructing those massive bunker spaces for the cold war, I mean it's kind of incredible rate that we Emmy, because of course they now appear to be an architectural follies. They never served the function.

But they were intended for. So what do you do with them right you're a government and your house if operating under varying levels, austerity and you're trying to scramble to find money for thing. And then you realize hey, wait a minute. We ve got that subterranean fortress we build whenever he is. Maybe we could put and on the private market, this has happened. Run over again. Governments put their bunkers up for sale and very often the people who want to buy the spaces are not doomsday peppers right. That people want to put data serve prison, mushroom farms and wine, sellers and all certain things, but they are competing with people who genuinely believe that we're headed towards a precipice and they're interested in buying those drunkard spaces and moving them into the private market, and it's a very lucrative business. If you can have,

bored to pay a million dollars for a defunct government bunker and then retrofit that with some fresh technology in painting Anne and sell space inside that bunker to private individuals. You know it's, it's a booming, realistic market right now demand for bunkers me down after the cold war, but in the last few years it's gone way back up the Tec website. The birch reported that, according to bunker accompanies the demand for bunker space in America has reached an all time high since the beginning of the corona virus pandemic. You think this is an anomaly, your or part of a bigger trend in contrasts you

the cold war, where we had of a kind of specific anxiety about a very particular event. I think people now or just generally anxious about everything. So we think about existential threats. You know the threats that have the possibility of wiping us out as a species. Nuclear war was clearly an existential threat, but now we worry about climate change, we worry about artificial intelligence. We worry about viral outbreaks in a potentially one is much more fatal than what we're dealing with there's a calculation there. That is incalculable. Where people are trying to make the people are trying to make every day in some people respond by becoming apathetic or trying to you know, don't dole their senses to make it do these things and other people respond by trying to control the parameters of their life that are immediately around

so. I would argue that were in the midst of it, of a second dump him at the moment that doom boom is being a bunker. Building is part of it. People are building private bunkers as they were in the cold war, but there were also building these massive communal bunkers for multiple families. There's a thriving market in survival, food. You know: freeze dried foods, escape vehicles, bug out vehicles, people buying. I mean look at look at how the market for hummed these right private. There were seeing spring up all around us and which is now a multi billion dollar market selling. All of these products to alleviate people's dread about an uncertain future. That is all part of the second doom boom that were in the midst of right now, so how many people are actively prepping than those where I'm supposed to be assessed scientists. Let me give you some get here in two thousand eleven. There was a survey done where three point

Seven million Americans admitted that they were actively prepping that was broadly conceived, so that could have been people just you know, putting an emergency kittens Garage and thinking about I mean in California. We all do the that's the thing. It's really part of the culture you get, bucket that has allowed stuff in it or you have a solar power of crank radio. I mean it's sort of like expected. It is expected on another on a low level right now. Here's the shocking statistic there, the research direct Cornell University, a Phd student Chris Ellis, who took some survey data from FEMA. They had conducted surveys in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen in every state and territory, and they found that there were extrapolating those statistics that there were almost twelve million Americans who are prepared to survive for thirty days without any kind of state infrastructure, no water. Now.

Electricity, no internet, no restaurants, no grocery stores. Almost twelve million Americans are currently prepared to do that, Ellison research because these people resilience citizens and what was fascinating? Is it per capita the Most resilience citizens in the country were native wines and pacific Islanders, many of whom are already. Growing food right or live off grid, so they're kind of better prepared than people like myself have been living in cities for fifteen years have absolute talkative food beginning, I guess the final take away there. Is it those numbers or from twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen imagined they're gonna look like in twenty twenty one when we collect that headache

I think so. Many people have been pulled into the orbit of what I would call practical, prepping man. You know prepping for like just basic every day, functionality rather than a kind of doomsday scenario. I think that those numbers are going to just it. There's gonna be a meteorite rise in the next couple of years. You went out unexplored some of the architecture of the new do boom. What was the most impressive peace work at her that you came across this was the great joy of the book was going to see people's bunkers and, as you can imagine, most people don't want you to see them so it is it is. It took a lot of trust building. You know to get to the point where people would send those invitations, but one of the best imitations I received was from a Canadian who is living in Thailand. I was in Sydney at the time of the inverse if Sidney semi a mess, then he said, I'm building a bunker. It's in the countryside. I would love for you to come out and see the thing and, of course,

immediately flute, flew open, heretic coat and see it, and, in contrast to many of the papers that I met, this guy was like he was very, very cool, very collected, the story that he told me was so that he moved to Thailand to marry a woman that he met. And in a dvd rental, store way back in the day and they had a wonderful life in Thailand, but he was working on offshore oil fields, and so he was often away for two or three men: at a time and eventually they had a child and he was he was worried about them all the time and he admitted that he was spending his time digging through the news. Forbad store and so he kept moving them in Timor. More more fortified gated communities and then Sleep decided, I'm gonna build a bunker, so he bought apply

of land in an abandoned orchard and his plan was to create four blocks. There were these villas, he called it Sanctum and he was going to live in the first blocking he was gonna sell off the other three to pay for the first and the block that he was building, which I had the opportunity to see was an incredible thing. It was a giant concrete square with no windows, but the place was beautiful. It was open at the top light flooded through the middle of it. It dropped down into a swimming pool and underneath the swimming or there is a nuclear blast, sheltered that he had actually turn into a day? Spa guess others. So I didn't feel like a shelter, and that was that was his idea. He had passion fruit, fine screwing down the walls inside and it was totally self sufficient, so he drilled wells. He had solar panels on the top of the bill.

Then he actually won some architectural awards for the sustainability elements in the building. But essentially it was a fortress We are standing on them on the rooftop there and it was looking around they realize is it we are in this. Incredibly remote village, like people were living in small huts, everything was totally open, most people didn't have doors or windows, and he had built this fortress here and then I looked off into the into the distance and I could see a buddhist monastery. This huge gold statue Buddha. There was staring at this fortress. I mean I was impressed with the building, but I was also very kind is taken. By the idea that I was in this remote place and rural Thailand, and even here

Someone was building a bunker waiting for the end of the world. One of the boys you visit was at a place called survival candle, which is a luxury bunker. What is it like? A lottery bunker like how nice could it be yes, rebel condo is built by an Ex government contractor Canary Hall and he used to work on defence projects for the government, including building bunkers and when he

had the opportunity to break out and work on his own projects. He decided he was going to build his own bunker. I asked him why, and he said you don't want to know which was really disconcerting implied of dangers, you didn't know about, and and that's why he's bunker? Yes, precisely. And I have to say a lot of the people that that I met her prepping used to work for the government, and you know it could be that If you're in those sorts of roles, you ended seeing disconcerting things, and that makes you think about the world in a particular way. Or it could be that they know something. We don't know that yeah, but Larry Hall he purchased a nuclear missile silo that used to have an intercontinental ballistic missile inside of it in the middle of Kansas and I'm sure behaviour listeners will know whether two kinds of nuclear silos right there, the the horse

until ones in the vertical. When this is one of the vertical rains. Obviously, missile had been removed. The place was actually flooded, it was in the middle of corn fields and all the sort of agriculture run off. It filled silo. He pump that all out of there and he turns Then too I described it in my book. Is a GEO scraper sort of the opposite of a skyscraper, its fifteen stories. But it goes into the earth you drive through the giant blast stores. At the top of this thing, you drive into the parking grudge and then you take the elevator down and ask you to send you move first through levels that contain condominiums, both full floor and half floor condominiums. And then, when you get to the bottom of the facility, you ve got the kind of communal facilities. He had hired a psychologist to educate him about what people needed to survive and, of course the base level needs are easy in it. You can give people first

good and clean air and clean water. And but what gets tricky is is how you keep people there for three weeks or three months or three years He had introduced all of these elements on the advice of the psychologist that would keep people from going nuts are hurting each other or whenever inside the bunker, theirs Jim, a yoga studio, a shooting range, climbing wall, swimming pool, fully stopped bar, and the thing that's really interesting about survival condo is that Larry Hall was very clear about the fact that he was building this for wealthy people. He was building this for people who actually didn't want to take any responsibility for their own preparations. They wanted to pay him to do everything they wanted a turnkey solution, so he sells half work, wonders for one point: five million and full floor condos for three million. You have to pay with cash because you know what bank is gonna find it.

Through Doomsday Bunker and it's an incredible facility- is its incredibly comfortable. In fact, I would you knows in the middle of writing the book, and I said, do you want someone to test this for you, because I would be very happy to stay down here for three months. Finish. Reading the book he didn t me up on that offer survival. Congo is kind of the high and low cost, a million and a half dollars to get a unitary or three minded it fancier unit, but you did visit through a ranger than another place called ex point. I think you sort of suggested it has the potential to be more widespread and functional, because it's not exactly a luxury bunker community. So what like it at this point and who are they trying to attract so it was built during world war. Two. It was actually a munitions, storage, complex and the hour

the of engineers built these. These semi subterranean concrete igloos. They called them the kind of have that shape and they built five hundred and seventy five of them, in this huge expanse of land in the middle of the plains and South Dakota. I forget the square footage, but it's about three quarters of the size of Manhattan, this bunker field. And at one time they would have filled all of these bunkers with weapons to protect them from other weapons, strange irony there and now they're filled with people who are protected themselves from weapons potentially or viruses or zombie or viruses or radio, exert its on bees have has omby apocalypse. This was another real estate development project that was pitched by it. I deem stay proper,

his name's Robert Pacino. He lives in California, and when he saw this bunker field, he saw it as an incredible opportunity to create what he described to me as the place from which humanity would be reborn after the next great calamity. He very much saw it as a kind of calling you And build this place, so he found this bunker field in South Dakota. This is another one of these architectural spaces. The government has a really hard time dealing with. What do you do with a giant bunker field? Who do you sell it do so when they had some, real estate developer approach than thing I've got a viable business plan. They said fantastic, please take because half of her and envy see no. He started cleaning up and selling empty concrete igloos for twenty five thousand dollars. And I was there on day one I saw the first for families move into their bunkers and they were working class people. So people were

building there. They were interested in building a space that would become potentially a second home. So rather than purchasing the second home, they buy the bunker in turn into the second home, it's kind of their vacation property. So they would go therefore, fourth of July, for instance, it would have big parties with all of the other bunker residents. But it's, but there is no one, was really interested in living there permanently because, to be frank, it's a very rough environment, its windy, its dry, it's cold. It would be really hard to live in these bunkers per really not to mention that in the beginning there is running water or sanitation infrastructure that did come later.

The families that are living there now we're living in or they have space there are living in decent comfort. This is some very interesting, and I wonder if you, if you thought about this to you, it seems to me- and in these are with broad yourselves logical terms, that the person who built or is attracted to a bunker is kind of self reliant, libertarian, maybe minded person who is trying to solve this problem, her own, because in that they probably think that they should solve a lot of problems on their own, but their buying into this come even in the post apocalyptic world that might run counter the how they would live their lives today. But they may be think that this sort of like this doomsday event, would your realign their interests or something heavy Turkey. Few people who thought about what that transition would feel like for them, one of the most difficult things

To get out of people is what they imagine the post Apocalypse Dick world to be. Like everyone imagines building, you know everyone's building now I said they can imagine the bunker they want to build amusing bunker loose near showed that this kind of whatever space you know their remote property ear, thereby subterranean bunker, whatever And they can imagine the event, you know the thing that drives them: the bunker, and then they imagine very often this kind of moment of relief. I dont have to go to work in I don't have to participate in society. My phone doesn't work right. The internet's broken there's this kind of euphoria that people have expressed to me over and over again about the idea of being like trapped in the bunker? Maybe with a couple of you know what they would consider like minded people, but we never really get to the long term vision where we headed with this. What kind of society do you build after that? Those people who

might also have depend very much on themselves and mistrusted. The government to deal with emergencies you're. Now a community with those people, and you have to rebuild when I into those conversations with people. Often they would stole out at that point many verb bunker. Perverse are prepping unaware it's really geared towards them in their family. It's very individualistic like no one's gonna, tell them what to do, and yet some of the various you talk to seem totally ready to assign people roles after the disaster, like you'll, be obeyed, and you'll be a doctor Lecter making a commune. It strikes me as a funny contradiction. That's part of the Euro. Here, I think, is imagining all of the traditional roles being broken, which is an irony right because love these people are very stuck in in traditional notions of how things should function but we should also be careful not to caricature peppers too much cause they're like that. There's some brilliant research by

Anna Maria bounds at Queens University in New York, where she worked with urban peppers, and she worked with the specific peppers network of inner city peppers, most of whom were black and most of whom said that they had been through traumatic experiences in the asked they ve been through. The sandy they'd, been through nine. Eleven they'd had difficult childhoods and they said we're not going back there. So stockpiling for and saving money and preparing emergencies and skill building for them. That was on effort to kind of in a keep themselves in the space they had climb, two in their minds will have more with Bradley geared after this, Bob yeah

So if you go to my personal website Mars that calm. The person you notice is a big photo of my bearded Jen talking into a microphone saying you're, probably on us as a quote from Iraq, glass, I'm looking to review the quote, but just to say fire Gus ever says anything nice about you, you're gonna protein put on your website to mention this to point out that these two things are very personal and unique to me, and only me no one has ever gonna have my beard, or this quote on their side, and it was so easy to make my sight person and unique because I used square space Scr airspace has everything you need to build your own site and grow online start with a design, template and use, drag and drop tools to make it completely euro from websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics square space. Is the online platform to build a beautiful online presence and run your business? So big, your own quotes your own photos and try yourself, go two squares

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realized in the time that I spent with them how many skills I was lacking and how little knowledge I had about so many things. It's also introduced a bit of dread in me that I can't shake. You know this kind of uncertainty about where were headed and with the purpose of all this is, I guess, it's it's kind of shaken my faith in this kind of enlightenment. Trajectory where were supposed to peat is escalating into utopia. Whenever you know I kept running into this feeling that they saw time as moving in spirals like breakdown was, equitable tomorrow is going to be different than today, and that's ok like that we're at peace with that idea, and I think you know before I started working on this project- I wasn't I on it tomorrow to be better than today, always end. It actually filling me with anxiety, continuing to think constantly,

But you know what more I needed to achieve, or you know what university shy work at next, how many books die right in the next ten years and I still I dont care anymore. I mean I do care, but I guess that care has been that kind of obsession with my career. In that trajectory has been tempered. Now you know The pandemic- has also contributed to it, because I am like stuck here with my family. Taking care of them and that's been great, it's been actually a healing So for me, but when I started writing this book I, had no idea. There is going to be a pandemic, so there is a kind of I don't know just perfect crescendo. This led me to this place where I feel so much better about my and that's what the They told me. They said the disaster that mean we didn't know what the disaster is going to be, but they said the disaster will fall

fully realign your priorities. When you talk to people who worked with, engage with us like built or lived an ardent architecture had bunkers prepped a bit. Did you feel that their fears were being assuaged by this stuff surrounding them or stoked by this stuff surrounding them? I expected to find a group of people who were anxious and paranoid and they really weren't. They felt that they had taken control, Of the parameters around them, they lived with the profound sense of peace, actually, regardless of the external circumstances that they were dealing with or might have to deal with. They had put everything in place that they needed to assure

the best possibility that survival. You know you can't assure survival, but you can assure the best possibility of survival. Thousands of years met when a man is gone. What is going to be laughter? Will it be the empire state building or do you think it'll be apocalypse bunkers? Just look at the Atlantic Wall, those bunk? earth from World war, two that are like giant robot helmets in their slumped into the beaches of Normandy. Those things gonna be there in a thousand years. We, our building monuments. Right now, monuments to this age, they may at last us It could be some other species that emerges that eventually find these giant bunkers and subterranean fortresses that we built and they're gonna tell a story out a civilization that was it that is afraid of itself. Are you

to be an archaeologist, and I worked in Mexico and a site called to loom Sub post classic my site, and these people had lake the most ideal. It lifestyle you can imagine they sort of built temples on the beach and others in a beautiful blue water, and right at the ends. Eventually, they disappear like every civilization right at the end, according to the material records, they start building these walls around their temples and they never had walls before and no one knows quite why they started building them. Some We have said that they were engaged in in warfare with me. I know someone that they had a falling. How with but there's another theory that actually it was because of viruses when the Spanish came over and people starting infected

they didn't know what it was, and so they started building walls to keep the virus out. Those walls were still there today, but it either. This to me that the walls were building now are until a similar story of a people who were who were scared and uncertain about the few, who aren't sure where their headed. I think one of the most Interesting aspects of the bunker as an organ sure space is actually imagining it as future. Archaeology, read the Guinness book, is called bunker building for the end times. It is so good if you're fast ain't buy stuff at all love this book, there's so much. And at that we did not cover here and get it now in her back and it will be out in paper. Back later this year Ninety nine percent, invisible was produced this week by Chris proving music by show me how some

by a meter cannot do there isn't any hall course that is the digital director rescue team includes and this Gerald grow. Rosenberg Vivian lay Christopher Johnson, every modern, Katy mingle, cluster and me roman Mars. We are project, one point. Seven k, L W in San Francisco and produced on radio row, which is scattered in little audio bunkers across the world, but when the in times come, we will run straight. Two beautiful downtown oakland- california- we are a founding member of Radio Tokyo from Pierre acts. A fiercely independent of the most innovative listers supported one hundred percent or his own podcast in the world by law and Radio Tokyo diaphragm You can tell me around Mars and show at nine nice guy Org one Instagram and read it to you, see pictures of bunkers and a link to the book Bunker, building for the end times. It's ok! I don't want to get it look no further

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