« Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Dr. Nadine Burke Harris


Nadine Burke Harris is an American pediatrician who is the 1st and current Surgeon General of California. She is known for her work in adverse childhood experiences. Nadine visits the Armchair Expert to discuss the impact childhood trauma has on health and longevity, she talks about her own experience with childhood adversity and she gives tools to buffer those who have many ACEs. Nadine talks about the screening process she pioneered and Dax wonders if parents will ever be truthful in admitting their contribution to childhood trauma. The two talk about the study that first led to ACE research, they discuss how awareness leads to shame reduction and Monica and Dax are in awe of Nadine's uniphile status.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to armchair expert experts on expert is padman here you're here I see you, I'm dyin shepherd a we have nay, Dean, Burke, Harris, Doktor, nay, being Burke Harris and she is a pediatrician and she is the first and current surgeon general of California she's, the four first never hold that title, she's, a badass, yeah she's, incredibly smart and she focuses on on the long term effects of trauma or would she calls childhood adversity? She has a new book called the deep well healing the long term effects of childhood adversity. I think some of these statistics are going to shop impactful the downstream effects of childhood adversity, yeah it's profound and you're, going to find yourself as a listener going through this was she gives
because she said there's that two thirds of people have several of these in its it's a health crisis, So please enjoy the brilliant, the beautiful, the talented Dr Nadine Burke Harris. Also, let me add, we added a second oh in Nashville on November second whereat Andrew Jackson, home of ember second, so please, if you want to see that second show, there are a few seats left. You can go to your website W w w dot, armchair expert, pod dot com and you can following their by some techies in sea. Manawa Bi in Nashville on November. Second, we are support by Bob's red male, my favorite way to start the day, Monica Genome Gluten Free Mouse Party, the Africa breakfast is the hardest meal. It is the hardest. Maybe we have told no beggar new brain
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dot, com, Slash, Dax, enjoy he's you're gonna know caffeine, I'm sensitive to caffeine, it messes with my sleep, okay sure, so I tend to be a low calf person. So I to hard time, hard time sleeping, but I've gone the other way. 23andme. I have not my brother TAT. I have not did he find it Nothing really exciting. So nice, family. We already know that we have a really interesting background: and so I think it just kind of confirmed Manly lore. Also often, though, these tests actually debunk. Family, for we have really good friend who, since
early believed he was wild twelve point five percent native American because in fact his grandpa was native American. But then he got a twenty three me test and he didn't have a trace of it, so that what you would expect This is that, although that was grandpas, chuckled really doesn't my, namely grants skins ass, but yeah. We did 23andme Monica, and we cannot stop genetic markers for like sleep, which I felt a relief of guilt, because I don't sleep well and then I go okay. When I can drink caffeine after x time, right, then I can't go to sleep and then I'm mad at myself, and I should have cut it off at eleven blah blah blah shame spiral and then another thing on my own kind of genetically wired to be missed. Omnia that there's a little comforting well cutting down the caffeine, is likely to impact your with all due
I have gone no caffeine for like a few months. At a time, I didn't see a huge difference that I, like. I just drifted off to sleep. Now it's get the racket inside it's just it's loud and pervasive in the evening. From that, it's when I go to bed. I think this is one of the things that makes me really good doctor is that I have all these checklists and I need to make sure that I check all of them. but I keep a journal next to my bed and so one of things I do to help my sleep. I really have stuff that my mind is going on. I just write them down, and then I meditate track. I do Thou Mimi do yeah, nay, Dean, Burke Harris! You are a period, Christian. Among many things you are, you are our first and current surgeon general of California
I know that kind of cool smile on your face either said that's cool or where wrong, I'm, not twentieth. You got that right now. I am California's first surgeon, general. Isn't that's really fascinating? What what's the back story of how Governor a nuisance decided, we should have a surgeon general for California on his first day in office. One of several executive order is that he signed was an executive order to create the role of certain general for cattle yeah. That's really interesting is the thought behind it like. Well, we have many different municipalities and oversight bodies on a state level. Why on earth do we not have our own for health? Is? It was at the premise by So, yes, I mean we have a lot of oversight bodies for health. In California me we have a secretary of health and Human services, who is a dear colleague with whom I have the opportunity to work.
I think what the governor had in mind was that the role of surgeon general for California is really is someone who has the opportunity to work across sectors, ain't so to work with partners across education and transportation and health and the justice system, for example, young, to be able to advance things on a public health scale and really in particular, what the governor highlighted in his executive order is that our early social determines of health are the source of some of our biggest and most anthem, health challenges facing California, and so he really created the role to have someone to target those develop solution.
and across all these different, and so is the simple theory that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That'll be so much cheaper for us to deal with this in a preventive way. I deal with a downstream when people are in emergency rooms. That kind of the fiscal model yeah haunting? I would imagine if you don't have a predecessor you kind of have to, create your own. I guess you like a teacher at a college and they never taught that course you're going to create your own. Your own agenda? Yeah, that's right and I think that it can be daunting, but my disposition is that I can also see that as an opportunity role again. I have to opportunity to shape the role of surgeon, General California, for the people who come after me, she's, pretty amazing, that's a big load on your shoulders and kind of got to figure out how to do it
How tall is that there are no existing protocols right so setting up a budget and hiring a staff and all of that kind of stuff, because the department, the role didn't, exist before yeah, but that's kind of my gig like I've, always founded things early in my career. Coming straight out of my residency training, I founded a clinic in one of San Francisco's, most underserved neighborhoods, and then I found it a center to be able to address childhood adversity as a root cause of major health problems. So I feel like somehow maybe that's a little bit it in my dna. I might be a glutton for punish, so in generally awoke- and I will all learn about what led you even to being a pediatrician in the first place, but with the work you're doing that brought you to my attention
is very tasty, so I kind of want to. I want to say right now kind of what your work is and then I want to go kind of back and We got there at what I mentioned in my to talk with that in a role in my clinical practice when I started this clinic in this neighborhood in San Francisco. What I quickly discovered was that there was an exposure that dramatically increased my patients risk of long term health problems and that we are talking about in very high, do says: brain we're talking about triple the risk of heart disease, triple the risk of lung cancer and a twenty year. Difference in life expectancy is crazy. So
significant break, and so if this were some packaging, chemical or some BP exotic by Lee Lag, pulled off the shelves in a minute like and by the way, it's not only harmful, but something that two thirds of our population is exposed to. two slash three: that's the number of population is exposed to right, and so you know that where the case right, you would expect every mom in America, every advocacy group and every health group would be out their marching in the streets to like and this, but it turns out that it's not packaging chemical, its childhood veracity, which we would, in general The white person would just say trauma. Is that what kind of talking about trauma right Oh, I think a lot of us use the word trauma when we talk about it. But what's interesting is that
Part of the reason why I use the word adversity rather than trauma is because I think that for a lot of people, it so common that they almost kind of don't think about it, astronomer right right. So first, let me say that this research, the science of this, came from a huge study from the CDC rain. We trust them and hand yes and Keyser Permanente these, like big, well respected healthcare institutions, and they did this study in seventeen and a half thousand people, and they asked them about ten categories of childhood adversity, and these include physical, emotional or sexual abuse. Physical or emotional neglect growing up in a household where parent was mentally ill substance dependent incarcerated, where there was parental separation or divorce or domestic violence girl. I got like seven of those you just click through those, I dont think blush.
Now? It is why you drink so long so's readily and with ease with the without any path. Algae adds that really what's goin on here, while it so in that is referred to as ACE in my raises the adverse charm and expand aces in so obviously those there's a wide spectrum of abuse and level of trauma. We quantified I would assume, predictably, the more you have of it than the less chance. That's right. We referred to it as a cumulative adversity. Really quick and racial. Wasn't there now wasn't, because this is what happened so the head researcher, who did Kaiser, he did it at Kaiser San, Diego, the population that they studied those seventeen and a half thousand people. Seventy percent caucasian set.
Recent college educated, interesting and when they came up with the criteria, what this doctor doktor Vince validity, what he was seeing was that he was talking to his patience and actually he ended up creating the study by accident. What happened was he was running and obesity trolling programme. We are well aware of that story. Was it topple that was telling us about this? Or was it you ve all Harare, the doktor? treating people for obesity and at some point he started realizing that, like it's, seventy or eighty percent of them had been abused. That's right happened. Normally. He asked his patients how old, are you when you first became sexually active right, but he just slipped in his words and what he said was: how much did you weigh when you first became sexually active
and his patient responded, and I don't know if it's because it was you know related to he was doing obesity treatment or what her answer was. Forty lb She was like. I was five years old with my dad. Yeah weather was topo love. Her but one of them was no, it was, it was Johann are hardest hit. He after tat, you ve all her our lives, and yet he was making a case that, like part of your regular restraining order at physical. Your annual physicals, like the doctor, should say like hey by the way, if you had any abuse you know, but that should be like one of the main things we learn about. You is along with your allergies and everything else wow. it's gonna happen in. That's was gained caliber, how urgent didn't newborn yeah, so I can a man
in, where its illustrated perfectly. In a study about obesity, I can imagine, deter Actors from this notion going: ok! Well, yes, lung disease, heart disease- these are probably hell style choices and it's the bad food in the smoking. The drinking and all the things which we all would understand is being ways to cope with the trauma, but does that get Marquis? Two people go like well, it's it's not the trauma, it's the life choices resulting from the trauma yeah. So that's what people sad when this study came out. So let me just back up real quick and just say the two things that they found. One was that this was incredibly common, two thirds of folks
at least one of these adverse childhood experiences. One one slash, eight folks have four or more. The second thing that they found was like the more you have, the greater health risk, including increase risk for our you know: heart disease and stroke and cancer, and all these different things, and so that's what people said. People said, oh well, of course this is about health behavior. And this is why I love being a doctor and a science nerd, because it turns out that some really smart doctors decided. Ok. Well, let's put that to the test, and so they did what we call logistic regression. Analysis like they said: ok, we're gonna, do all this complicated statistical modelling and pull the effects of smoking and over eating and inactivity and hiring behaviour and drink out. You know all of that kind of stuff, all those noon, health risk and what they found
but it only accounted for about half the risk, really wow, that's incredible. Clearly, this is costing billions and billions of dollars downstream. Yes, obviously it seems like the earlier. You could intervene and help little kids, the better your outcome would be. I would imagine, there's certain hurdles of getting that information out of a kid like a six year old, so I'm imagining someone trying to glean that from talking to them and need your paranoia's like old, be the 80s like pedophilia. Ok, air and outrageous, like they're putting words and kids miles and what now? But how would the doctors go about assessing whether the kids,
at a young age are experiencing trauma. So I will say that when I read this research as a doctor as a pediatrician caring for kids, the first thing in my mind, was like: oh, we should figure out how to screen, and so I and my team actually created a clinical protocol for screening and it turns out you don't ask the four year old. so furred little kids rain. We asked the parents Reese, you know we say hey, we ask everyone and we now know that these factors can impact the child, health and development, and so now we screen because early intervention improves outcomes so that the first thing, but for kids, who are adolescents so thirteen and over we ask the parent- and we asked the teenager to do a self report and those are done separately.
and often times the parent report and the teenagers report are different. The rainbow adjust the and the other thing that we do, which we learned over a decade of doing this screening is that the protocol developed by me and my team before I came into this role, was we actually do what's called, I D done a fight screen, so we list the ten address childhood experiences and then we asks the parents to report not which ones their child has experience, but only how many o Brien? That's great, you are you just right: ok, you're trials, zero or a five or a tan. or whatever it is, and what that does is that it gives the doctor asthma.
Information as they need to be able to act to say. Ok, this child is at low risk, intermediate risk, high risk rain, and, just as if I heard a heart murmur brain, I would for my patient to a cardiologist. I'm not gonna, get in there and fix the heart myself right, like the back of open. You know so the whole. Hi. I refer them to a specialist through that. Similarly, based on this risk, then I can connect the family to the resources that they need to be able to support and he'll. Yet the inherent potential issue of this, I would imagine, is that that, but the parent is heavily disincentive eyes to report stuff that ultimately would incriminate them
on some level or at least trigger their fear, that child protective services can come in so even its if its benign and not like that their molesting their kid, but that mental health issue or substance abuse for the parents to say yeah. I have substance abuse or my wife has substance, abuse and yeah. We, you could say we neglected for periods while we're both doing all these. Just whatever the thing is. I think there would be an implicit fear on the parents part that they're gonna lose their child. So it's almost like again. This would be so controversial, be it's like you don't want to grant the parent amnesty or something so that they could just be honest, so we could get involved with the prevention and of it is their telling in place for that. So I,
that's a big part of the reason why that we find the de identified screen to be so effective, because when you're, a parent- and you read this thing- and you say ok, these things could affect my kids health right. That's why the doctors asking right, but right at this moment that I'm doing the screen like I don't have to say. Yes, my child has been sexually abused or their substance it. You know we substance, use and help right off I don't have to say that on this form I can just say: okay, my kids are free for whatever and then the doctor can connect you now. I have to say that doctors are, mandated reporter he bright rye. So it's not just like hey cool, it's likely literally, were managed reporters about one of the things, and this is what I feel like
I've found over a decade of screening is that parents want, what's best for their kids, offer sure right, and I think that for many parents, especially for parents whose kids have high aces mode since the time they themselves have high Asia and one of the things that we recognise is that they tend to be handed down from generation to generation and to recognise that there is an opportunity for us to break this cycle d ass right. Yes and frankly, I think a lot of it comes down to relationship and trust. Rain and so typically what I've? What I found in my practice cuz one of the interesting things about this. I think doctors often get pretty nervous about,
Is there like great? Am I going to be calling child protective services on you altogether kid kind of invertedly creating the hierarchy by which, if I see a broken, femur and some bruises on the back. That's clearly child abuse and I need to report that what was ironic probably is the other forms of abuse are probably just as destructive on some level down the line right absolutely, and so this is the piece that I think it's really important. I think, as GM. Do the screening what we understand and what we have the opportunity to communicate with families? Is we know that exposure to these high doses of adversity is harmed. four kids help, and we know that when we do really identification and provide the supports right because, frankly, the supports the response is not
not that were met and the harm right like, and I will tell you, even in cases where there is frank, awful child abuse going on right where there, let's say you know me or often than not as the dad whose abusive, but you know whatever. I am you know, even in those cases right so typically from my clinical practice. I have seen so many beautiful examples where, in doing that, screening the parent understands wholly crap. You want to know the frankly the reason I'm beating the crap out of my kid is because I have a way overactive stress response, because happens when you are exposed to lots of trees, university in your childhood is that you can develop
an overactive stress response and helping that parent or caregiver to actually get the two. The treatment to hearing that there is a cycle of abuse or there is a cycle of trauma and knowing that probably the best course of action to break
cycle is in in again. This is interesting from my mother, who is a cossack who works with kids in foster care. It's like it is weighted to keep the kids with the parents, as it should be in my opinion, because that, then, is another level of trauma, so you're comparing a bunch of terrible decisions, and I just wish we were kind of open minded for thinking enough to just go like okay, let's just hang off the punitive nature for one second and try to interrupt this cycle, and let's just try to work on this before we start separating people incarcerated people all this stuff, none of its leading towards a solution. But I imagine it's a very tough theory to get the public to embrace or is it not our people cooler than I think, are they able to go like listen park? for one right now is getting everyone treatment. So, as I mentioned, I'm an optimist, and I do think that raising public awareness is one of the most important
things that we can do? You should go on a podcast, but seriously. I think that's step one, because I think that the key to addressing anything on a public health level, like guess what smoking causes cancer and step one, is raising that awareness because listen government doctors, nobody is going to go into every single person's house right, but if we aren't people with a knowledge to understand some of these frameworks, we can talk to our friends and our Lincoln, our kids and our you know nieces and nephews, and we can not only share that knowledge, but also share the solutions, which is the thing that I'm super excited about:
right because no point I mean. Obviously smoke has been on the decline, I believe for the last thirty years or whatever, and it was not because awesome agency went into people's homes and broke up their cigarettes or ban the sale of ashtrays and lighters. It was solely the education the public service announcements, all all. That is what armed people with making better decisions. I suppose the biggest thing was If this is what I do like, I study what worked, and I had to do it that, like the public health think, the biggest thing was smoking was one of the biggest things that came out of the tobacco settlement was a huge I should have to prevent young people from starting smoke because guess what smokers are really really really hard to create Yasser ought yeah. Look at me. I'm stuck fifteen years later, I'm nicotine's lozenges. In my mind, the dramatic decline. pain in the prevalence of smoking in the US? Didn't come from, like all of these people quitting smoking,
some people that but smoke it was from people not starting smoking in the first place, and that was a public asian campaign. That is why, when it comes to adverse childhood experiences on the fact that it has over your lifetime helping to raise awareness and a spell, of number one, the younger generation but number two parents to recognise like hey guys, we can actually interrupt the transmission and we can do things to not handed down to our kids. Number one and number two is that, even if our kids have been exposed, we can actually also use the science that shows that like Nurturing relationships are healing write like when our kids experience something stressful or scary for most of us, as parents
one of the first things that we do. What do we do? We wrap up in our arms? We give them hugs and kisses and love on them right right that releases, oxytocin oxytocin interrupts the biological stressor right, and it counteracts almost all of the effects that has on our biology rain. It literally protects yourselves against damage is adrenaline and cortisol for it is all right, they're damaging. Are they not their helpful and life? saving cost in. when they're released occasion in severe circumstances, but when the release happens too frequently, yes, they are damaging. So I want to get into biology of cause. I think it's fastenings. I do believe, though, also be certain people, my
page who are getting old and cranky and they'll go like all everyone has trauma. All everyone has an excuse, so blah blah blah for me Bubba. So I'm on some levels. When I hear millennials can't work at a place unless their boss takes him to lunch four times a week. I go. Oh, my god guys what the fuck is happening to us, but I am not in that camp in that I do believe in Biological effects stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare, we are corded by Cbdmd Cbdmd is a trusted leader the Cbd industry. Now you know what Cbd is? It's in marijuana, but it is different than thc. No thc is the Can I get you high feeling silly making you want to watch Scooby, Doo Cbd does not get you high at all, so you don't need to worry about that in the slightest. I use the topical Cbd cream on my joints, cuz.
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get hyper or hypo like does it fatigue in run out because it my interests, namely had a blood panel a few years ago, and the guy said to me now I took this- is a feather in my cap. Budget set up the sky works would like the Navy seals would cover football teams, one of these guys negroes your dream. No, Glands are like they're not making adrenaline, because in I've really only seen this in the Navy seal guys, which there just in so much shit eventually it gets fatigue and the kind of such working you gonna need adrenaline for your mood stabilization, so any who yeah does it? Does it get fatigued or does it become hyperactive? Let me start by explaining what the fighter flight response yeah. So all of us, the way that we are designed is that when
the experience, something scary automatic right, like imagine, you're walking in the forest, and you see a bare and what happens is that immediately the a Mig delay in your brain, which is your brains, fear, centre, activates, and it send signals to your whole body and your body really This stress hormones, including, like you, said, adrenaline and cortisol, and these have lots of effects on your body, so the effects of adrenaline think about it. When the last time you're scared right, like your hearts, What's the pound, you're feeling your muscles with oxygen? That's right! Your pupils, dilate your airways, open up you shunt blood, to your big muscles. For and jumping away from that itty bitty muscle to hold your bladder closer,
they pay your parents are right and that's awesome. If you're in a forest and you're gonna find a bear, but if you were to think about it, fight them bear wouldn't seemed like a good idea, rang out, run and so actually you're. A Mig de La Fear Centre sends projection that sends like neurons nerve cells to the part of your brain, that's responsible for executive functioning or judgment an impulse control. It's your prefrontal cortex. and it turns it way down, because you don't want judgment to get in the way of survival and instead what it does. It turns up the part of the brain, called the nor agnostic nucleus of the locusts early us, but hit me with TAT. I got a little out round me, one more time, the noradrenergic nucleus of the locus coeruleus,
I like to call it the part of the brain responsible for James Brown Center. then in the brain. Stress response. Only thing that happens when you activate your stress response with a little bit less obvious is that it also activates your immune response, because, if that bear gets his claws, do you you want your immune system to be primed, to bring inflammation to stay. lies that wouldn t even live long enough to beat that their or get away, and I am also immune thing- you just kind of map that out for me yeah, so just really quick in a very pragmatic example of what you're talking about. I read this great book on killing am in world war. I found many many people in the trench warfare who had been shot, who never fired their
that was so perplexing to all of these people, because they thought why one in every Germans running at you firing at you. What why won't you response be to fire back and what they later found through. All sorts of research. Is that exactly what you're saying your frontal lobe goes offline, so you're not making a national decision with a really fun, as we had this binary grouping of light or our fight and, in fact, most traumatic situations in the wild resolve themselves with posturing and submitting that's the bulk of how we resolve things of a bear. Growls most people intuitively will submit Bill Cowher the look down with you all these things going to be trained almost into and so all these guys were watching posturing which was allowed gun firing at them and they were submitting like ice rendered, don't shoot me and they just sat there and got shot in so they had to train these people. A part of their brain would act without thinking, basically defy your no matter what yeah it's. Actually we as a short hand. I say fighter
flight, but they fight light or free that's the long and short of like what happens with our stress response. It's really good, autoimmune part, that's really fascinating quite logical folks with high aces, are at dramatically increased. For I don't mean this is worn AIDS, as you have double the rest to or more issues you have. My uncle I told you I am seven of those league has there was so much in full mission early on getting this activation of the stress response. Also activates, the inflammatory, and this is the thing to this out of the doctor right like this- is why this is such an important health issue, because when we think about childhood trauma- and we think about the effects of it and importantly when we think about how much it cost most people think about
since use, or mental health issues or incarceration rain heart disease is another one killing the United States of America re right? You have four more aperture expanses you're at twice the risk for heart disease. We Spaniards, three trillion dollars a year in our country on healthcare, seventy five percent of which is for the treatment of chronic disease, and what makes me really sad set of the doctor. When I read this information, I was like why is no one telling Hey having aces can increase your risk of these health problems and why are we not in
Staying here in prevails because weakening really ends up dollars and by the way I get the fiscal conservative point of view. I totally understand it, but even if you don't give a shit about anybody in all you care about is as dumping money down the toilet. That minimally should get you interested in the preventative route. Through these trillion dollar fees that were yes, because here's the thing we now know enough to do something about this, so this is something that we can prevent. This is something we can heal. This is something that we can interrupt and the amount of money we are spending on health care costs because, having or more aces increases your risk for eight out of ten of the league
causes of death in the. U S, that's a big deal yet re tonight is again give myself as a personal example I was on who married I forget how much that was a month. It was thousands out. I was unsafe genes, that's thousands amongst! So just me personally, I've gobbled up tens of thousands of dollars to deal with an auto immune thing. The medical of science behind it in terms of question around what happens to your stress response, so what the research shows is that it becomes overactive for a lot people and then in some cases, and sometimes in the more severe cases. What you see is essentially burn out of your stress response system as you get higher and higher doses of adversity, and so
that may be what they were fighting and I was told Monica this the other day I dont know if I accidentally found a back door solution to all this in his profit, making it worse and alarm. But we used to think of our remember, taken a site college class early on and they basically said the difference between people who can watch the grass grow and risk takers. Is this MAO Chemical in your brain and it really creates brain activity, and so some people a lot MAO? They could stare at a blade of grass watch it grow in the brain is fire. Other people love MAO. They got to jump off a bridge or something- and that was the two category can follow that in. But now, as I learn more about this in fatiguing, your adrenaline Athena Monica, lowrider motorcycle most places around LA
can adrenaline racing experience because of your lane, splitting there's a ton of stuff- and I was saying, as I like the days I drive my motorcycle to or from work I'm in such a better mood, and I'm like, I wonder if I'm just like squeezing a little bit of adrenaline out to help stabilize the mood or something so one of the things. That's really interesting! That this research is that they found that high doses of adversity- also, affects the pleasure and reward center of your brain right to this is the part of your brain that buy cocaine heroin, that you ve got all the things that will have to listen,
Well sure yeah, it's everything and what's interesting. So this is a pleasure centre of your brain and what they found as that high doses of adversity and childhood affects the structure and the function of the way that part of the brain can develop. What can happen is that activities that should be pleasurable. Actually, it's less sensitive, so you need higher dose of the. So you know I think, for someone who perhaps has zero eighth as they get a little bit right like they got a little bit of something exciting and they're good. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so this is why, for folks with for Maurice's right ten times as likely to be subsets of yeah. So, okay. So that's a very interesting scientific way to think about it, but I have to share with you this kind of breakthrough out. I had to recently- and I one of the jibes with that which is just so many people who have tried cocaine that are like yeah. It was whatever
cooking was like whatever I tried. It was our and well what we talking about it was it it would ever know. Did you meet? Leave you off to mistake, seeming ecstasy, I would have just said I would imagine across the board this chemical works on everyone's brain the same in the date. They must feel what I feel in the night puppy look like ambivalent about it. It's so confusing to me in that again that goes with alcoholic cuz. All these them- and that's always been a little perplexing to me and when I thought of the other day was a good childhood friend of mine who had quadruple what I have I mean and in fact I think, maybe even why some of my stuff, I didn't even gone out that bad, like Ike, he is living in fucking hell. You know one bedroom, trailer, crazy, alcoholic beating everyone, just fucking carnage, all day long every single day, and he and I both fell in love. Getting fucked up together That was our life. When I remembered the other day was there was a period for a year? Were he hopped gas he carried it got a gas can arrange for a year in eighth
no, I don't know if you've ever hot gas, gasoline gasoline gasoline you just you huff it. I have done it and let me tell you it's the worst feeling imaginable. I hate it's, the grossest buzz you could ever have. It feels terrible right. So I did it in eighth grade or ninth grade and I'm like this is terrible and I never could make peace with why he enjoyed that and what I thought just a few weeks ago I was like man all that tells you is what his standard fan on his chest and feeling emotional feeling was so fucking shitty that that terrible high of huffing gas, better and I almost started crying for him and I almost time for me cuz. I was like yeah for a lot of us when we took that first drink, we were like, oh, my god, relief. This feels so much better and to the point of huffing glue and gas, and all the shit that feels terrible to this is something that I talked about with researcher at Stanford. Who has
A lot of this work on the impact of childhood adversity on the brain, and we were sitting on he's doing all these MRI studies and we're. Looking that you can, you know some of the stuff is now but an mri, and you can see we were talking and he was like. So imagine you're a kid and you're experiencing this from the time your itty bitty. Is it any wonder that by the time you get old enough to get access to substances you're like bring it on our behalf up until that moment, there's no relief in again, I'm not ass. He resumed the announcing their own feel better attics, whatever I'm using its fascinating that the thing is as complicated as it is. You know, in the longer I'm around
another addicts. You can't not not observe these patterns emerging, so you know that act like how many of the attics that you know have had some experience of childhood trauma like what percent my sponsor, who has over the last thirty years, probably sponsored. I mean thousand guys. Probably at this point he told me, you know your forced us, where you right out all these resentments and these personal immature, and then you read it to your sponsor and he said that no question. Seventy five percent of the people have a sexual abuse thing in their M Tory. That's like that stark. So this is the point its regardless of how you're feeling about the choices that people make in their life. The basic science and public health tells us that if we adopt a fine early and we intervene early
We can change the odds for people rain and that's what it's about, regardless of whether you're on the most progressive side or you're, on the most conservative side, changing the odds for people improving the likelihood that they can be healthy productive, NPR contributors. is a good thing. I want to have one more thing about addicts before I really want to hear about what that prevention looks like and what the intervention, but I do want to add one thing which is in again. It would be me, I'm a fucking, Senna, Kaito you get it. If I wasn't an addict and be like fuck, you just send me willpower or choosing not to have willpower, kneeling. Counter argument I want to make that is if you were to have looked at my life on paper, every chance I I could,
I was. I was at work, making money saving money. I was going to UCLA. I was getting great grades. I was going through the groundlings. I was making my levels. I was writing as many or more sketches and everyone else. I didn't have a willpower issue. If you look at any compartment of my life you're, seeing me exercise a tremendous amount of willpower, and then you put this fucking thing in my mouth: one drop of it to pills if it would ever gone I'ma disappear for four days, so I just want to point out like there is a difference between willpower and addiction. I think I don't know that I ever make that point on and maybe for some people. You know one that someone is just a lazy piece of shit across the board, but I did it's easy to conflate those two things and they're much different Send that raising awareness about this is so important to me is that okay, so the way that this manifest biologically in different people is,
friend, it's a combination between nature and nurtured. You know its combination between your dna or protective factors you're all these different things, but the thing that I would say about it is that I think it makes a difference for folks in the way that they view themselves to be able to say, oh well, because of what I have experienced, I'm at greater risk. So we don't NASA
barely have to play that blame and shame game right rain and Anna Roma. I want to be very clear that no one in this conversation is saying: oh you have these, so you know I have a built in excuse for the rest of your life. It's not know now you have an explanation with that explanation comes some semi proven treatments for it. That's right! Yeah! That's right! So tell me about that. How you intervene, what what happens when someone gets identified, what kind of programmes or are proving to be successful? One of the first things is safe, stable, nurturing relationships right. So what the researchers showing is that often times to really kind of adverts, the worst outcomes it can only take just one person rain that wine trusted loving support. The research shows that just one person who is at loving, safe trusted person in a child's life can make a difference. That being said just as
impact of adversity accumulative right in the body. Similarly, the impacts of what we call buffering or cumulative, so the more sources that you have of safe, nurturing buffering relationships are really important. they probably the strongest healing power connection. Is this nurturing buffering and part of the reason for that, as I think, kitchen earlier is that when, when you get a hug from someone that you love right like that releases toast in your body and not oxy, toes and inhibits the stress tests,
and not only inhibits the stress response. It protects your organs like it protects your brain and body against the harmful effects of the stress response, because biologically are stress, response was designed to save our lives, but we also have this biological response. Led by oxytocin to be able to recover rang so that peace is really important. Some other peace. As that I talk about in my book, could I wrote a book on this topic is really work. The title, That book is the deepest well healing the long term effects of childhood adversity, which I have a copy of and cannot wait to read. So sleep is really important, so it turns out your stress response, resets itself, while you're sleeping it recalibrate- and you know how like, if you
sleep for awhile. You get sick because not only does your stress response recalibrate itself, while you're sleeping, but your immune system, recalibrates itself, while you're sleeping I'm. So one of the things that I talked a lot about is the importance of sleep hygiene. right, like I'm, going to bed at the same time, every night and not sitting in bed with you? I passed near blue back and you know going to bed and waking up at the same time, avoiding things at a distraction and sleeping in a calm, quiet, cool environment. Right, like all of these things, that really help us get better sleep and that helps our body to have a fighting chance when stress response get overactive. Another thing is exercise so when we exercise
again that helps to metabolize. We burn up the stress hormones rain. It helps to release endorphins our bodies natural high and do sang chemicals which can help to stabilize mood. It helps your immune system function better and it actually so exercise releases something called B D, an F brain derived, Neuro Tropic Factor, and this is kind of like miracle gro for brain cells, and so we know that one of the biggest impacts of the stress responses on the brain bdnf helps brain cells be able to make new connections
and so literally biologically, exercise, helps to reduce stress hormones, reduce inflammation and enhances the ability of brain cells to make new connections so mindfulness meditation. That's another thing that helps to regulate the stress response. Part is through a combination of breathing and awareness and turning off your thinking. It helps to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system, We know that we have the fight or flight system, the opposite of that. Our fight or flight is called our sympathetic, nervous system. The opposite of that is the Paris sympathetic nervous system, and it is in charge. Resting and digesting fresh, and so when we do mindfulness practices, it strengthens the parasympathetic nervous system so that it can fight again,
overactive, so I talked about sleep, exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, mental health and healthy relationships as like the six really powerful tools that we how to fight an overactive stress response when you say all that I go well, that's the difference between why didn't end up in prison ultimately my mom was so nurturing and made so much time for nurturing and snuggling and petting my hair all that she was amazing at that and then my friend was talking about. We get twelve snuggled, we snuggle all the time we were with each other arms around weather like we didn't know. We needed that, but we found that- and I do get so sad when I think of kids who are on their own with it cuz I was, and I was saved by this friend of mine. You know what about the tests in and you now like? You don't know why,
You don't know why I'm this is the thing that I love about. Science right is that we take a look and we see ok like how does that stuff work, and I will tell you one of the things that I would really love to see so as a researcher looking at the effects of Oxytocin interesting Lee, when we think about the solutions, a lot of the solutions are the things that I talked about. Sleep exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, mental health and healthy relationships, but I'd also like to see medical science do more in the term of research to leg, help people out man a hate year yeah. So there was a researcher at Stanford that I tracked down, who actually doing a randomized controlled trial. She was a population of kids who had autism cuz. You know autism, communication. Social deficits can be a big part of the manifestation. She was using
oxytocin, nasal spray. You can you might want to that yeah? This is the thing that I literally last week I was at the NIH and I was like: have you guys ever thought about like doing some trials about oxytocin nasal spray, to treat an overactive stress response, because you know we spanned, how many like hundreds of million dollars for treatments for cancer heart disease in all of these are routinely right and when we think about all of the money and scientific mines and effort has put behind it leg, hello to all the manual Two thirds of the population has experienced childhood trauma and the effects are significant like if we can do something to help.
how to block that from happening. The reindeer, and I think that we should use our arsenal of resources. We have still by the way, there's so much downstream stuff. You couldn't even imagine what stuff it would clean up downstairs. How much is you got a bunch of people with trauma running all these countries in the world? They got people acting out of fear. Being out of terror at protect? You know it's so global and humongous that if people felt good, how many other things would be affected to? The thing I would say is that when we talk about solutions right after about the things that are like for the individual and what we can do in medicine and science and that's why here in California, getting in January. Two thousand and twenty doctors are going to get reimbursed if they screen adults and kids
adverse childhood experiences, the biggest project that I'm working on right now and that's for our governor put point. Eight million dollars into reimbursing doctors to screen and that's in our Medicaid system, I'm working on trying to get the private payers to pay for it as well. Also put fifty million dollars over the next three years for me to work with our Department of Health care services to train doctors on how to screen on how to respond with trauma informed care. So that's like the medical response, but to be clear, I see childhood adversity, it's like germ theory right like once. You understand it that this is the source of so many
of health, social, mental health outcomes. There are things you can do in medicine and science and medicine it's kind of the equivalent of developing antibiotics. We can do these advance our farmers therapy. and we can do practices like sleep exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, mental health and healthy relationships, but we also have to like change the way our society works. Say to the folks who are like a well. Everyone has trauma yeah and you are also covered, had to tell it with bacteria there's a trillion bacteria living in your got. The point is: when we have this information, it doesn't mean like we have to eliminate every bacteria bride, that's dumb, but you can figure out. It doesn't have to cost disease and early death. The rapporteur and we are sure that good bacteria and you can minimize the things that feed bacteria exactly a year exact year in any. No. I think it's really interesting an intriguing in road too
adults recognizing their own drama. In that I was on a tv show for six years that dealt a lot with autism, so I met over those years, many many different pair but to stick it in many of them had discovered their own place on the spectrum by going through the questions with their kid. In going. Oh, I guess I would have answered yes said that, so it's almost like a Trojan horse of your. There did just help your kid and then you can of accidentally find out of shit. I probably have some things that you know. Those are great things in their things. People can do. People can aim to sleep better people can aim to get some exercise outside that. What kind like is there a cognitive, behavioral therapy? I suspect. Is there any kind of their appeal or is yeah absolutely so? Trauma focus cognitive, behavioral therapy as one of the treaty,
that's recommended there are more and more mental health interventions that are proving to be effective in helping to address an overactive stress response. I'm not, Mental Health professional, and so I put some of the ones, We hear about our example, DE are as one that a lot of people are talking more and more about. I movement decides Playstation but trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy, particularly for kids. There's, child parent psychotherapy developed by Dr Alicia Lieberman, a researcher at Ucsf. The most important thing about the mental health treatment is that it be trauma focused because this is one of the things that we see. That actually still happens to this.
a is that someone has a challenge, whether they you know where they have their an addiction or their having anger, manage miss you sure, they're depressed and they go and see a therapist and the therapist spent the whole time trying to treat their substance dependence and never treats the trauma, you're right now that's reign was exactly, and so that's them. The trauma focus nature is important here. I feel I get some Port and in the same sentence when you say these things can cause this that we also, and you can stop it, because otherwise I might Fear is- and I think what may be a lot of people might think when they hear it is like. Could this caused some sort of self fulfilling prophecy Oh, I have four aces so I'm going to have this and I'm going to have so yeah
see people being like well. Do you want to find out? Because if you find out than you know, you're susceptible about these things- and you know that any re with that, but I have reactions like that. It's funny because it all boils unto like I have a very low assessment of people's true good nature. I'm like, oh anyway, someone. the system. There are gonna game, the system you know like that does knee jerk. having grown up around a lot of wolves that reclaiming the system, I among highlights four people here to your point, going like why five so tough shit, I'm sure I don't even mean consciously like that knowledge even to game the system, but just like knowing that. Ok, I'm probably gonna have a substance abuse it like it You know better now, but again, I think it would be look I pretty much new he's. Gonna have one on third generation of known people having it in yet. I was like, while I still gonna, find out right
You know, I wonder, but I guess it sprang. Isn't you catch her? If you know these things are really than you can start early with some of these and service yeah stage, armchair expert, if you dare, we are supported by the Chrysler Pacifica the dopest ride. yeah. I can find himself in our or as single parents are a single person. You know I drive the Pacific it'll work every day. bless this mess, I wrap the other day and there were a few crew members yeah they're during my pacifica and they go on, is really cool. You put twentieth wheels on it and I make no girl these things. Come decked out to the MAX minds, dealt black on black on black, with a stone.
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What my hope would be and what I see- and this is for like this- I have over and over and over again, because when you write a book about the topic and you doing book door. What happens is that everyone in line is there, but they also tell you there a sky re like real. I did a right away. Sulkily, Anne and one of the things about it is, I think, especially for adults, is to recognise o dang. Ok, I might have an over active stress response right and so when something stressful, it's going on in my life and let me actually be proactive and do the things that are going to make a different so that I actually don't have that negative right outcome ray. I wanted to give an example of this, because I mean I'm looking at you guys. You guys know that when I came into my
clinical practice. It's not an accident that this is the work that I found will then that's where I was and yeah yeah yeah yeah. I mean you for myself. I grew up in a household where my mom was paranoid. Schizophrenia and there were a lot of scary moments, anything that informed my medical practice in a in ways that were really powerful that thing that I want to remember, say cuz. I think this is so important is that I think are aces can be vulnerability, but I also think they're the source of our superpower oh absolutely, for real. You know it's hard to deal. I'm yours yet, but when the shit hits the fan which, over the last twelve years, the shit's it and found a couple times in its chaos. I'm is key
who was a cucumber. I make the right decisions, I'm not very affected and she's like. Oh, my god, I'm boggling out there was a huge ass, people were screaming and you were like. Aren't, let's party regarded as this in this so yeah? That's the kind of other side sword that I like having that's right and it's actually actually think, there's a lot of people. I truly think I'm a big, What's cartoon movies now, but young people who blow stuff up right? They had they have these. There have these mutations they blow stuff up, and you know it eventually, professor X's, like the head, you're right. He finds them and instead of again like blaming and shaming them, he has his professor x's school for gifted youngsters and he teaches them how to you.
Use their gifts and instead of blowing stuff up how to use it for good and in my own experience of my medical practice from the experience of having a mom with mental I kind of learned how to read. Nonverbal cues like- really well or you have to cuz. Your life is threatened. If you don't think they have no spidey senses wash it's about to go sideways when I'm caring for a patient and if there's something kind of going on beneath the surface. It's very easy for me to read that, and it makes me a better doctor right and then similarly, when stuff is going sideways, I am at your best yeah couple years ago, two thousand and fourteen my husband and I had the experience of
child, oh my god, yeah we were six months pregnant and our son came early. search for fourteen minutes. That's the worst rem and you want to talk about stressor, and I will tell you I'm going to I'm going to say. I really feel like this science probably saved my life and did some really good things for our kids, because this is not an abstract exercise. To that question of how do people use this information on you for myself, because of my
own history. The likelihood that my brain and body are stressed, sensitized and then I'm more vulnerable to subsequent. It was definitely the worst moment of my life ever when we lost our son and it took some doing even me, like sciences, research, or this is what I do for a living, recipe, Ology and all the stuff. I was a hot mess and it wasn't until my brother was like dude. Are you okay? oh, my god, I'm really not! Okay, I'm that person, I'm the I'm, the impaired parent yeah. I can't take care of my kids right now and I literally I was like what are you do I live we bare bears on Youtube I'm literally like did the thing
yeah religiously. He made a huge different eyes hidden to deeds. I work within the programme all the time which is like No, you list you got to have your list. Mine is journaling exercise. Temp service on. I don't want to be. You know I have my thing and I'm not allowed to get scared until I've done everything on that list and I still feel pessimistic and tariff all those things and so yeah mean you got to know your list, you got to, you got to run through it even in when you're miserable. That's exactly right. That's one of the things that I tell my patients all the time, as I say, make a list of what works for you right, and hopefully it's informed by you know some of the science and some of the research. Really it's What works for you and that list can include like who your people are right, leg and who your people aren't like? Who is like you? yeah, and just
same way that my youngest son has a peanut allergy, we literally have a thing. An emergency care plan on our fridge like if he eats peanuts, do what you got to do. This is the medicine you got to give. This is a dosage, it's literally like if your tree earth or, if you are having that structure that tremor, even if you ve, just feel yourself kind of tipping over rain, get that plan B. I am. I am the sad thing and the problem with mental health issues in general is that you're at your worst to be making those decisions is very much a self. Accelerating thing were it's? No, cuz you're making bad decisions. So you decide to eat a shittier meal to comfort yourself, and now you feel even shittier. So you decide to do this, that you know and you're getting further and further from the list there in it. So easy. I don't like your one thing. Monica the one thing I was going to add to what you said about the cellphone prophecy is the one thing you can do is
alleviate some of the shame. I think it would be a shame. Is such a driving force of all the other isms that are destructive, that just a cut myself a little slack and go you're doing a little bit predictable. It doesn't mean you're, not responsible for it, but it does help it. I'm not a failed human being unworthy of love. all these things in good feelings. It's just helpful to know like oh you know, these are again if you had diabetes but again I don't make insulin fame and that no one sit round me now. They are beaten themselves up over it Do you think, knowing that, like the subjects were all similar and race, do you think there's more research to be done with different types of people yeah? So the ten criteria that were in the a study, the ten adverse childhood experiences they kind of set the scientific foundation for Understand this cumulative adversity. If someone is
threatening you or oppressing you because of your race did activate same biology, re rain orbit. Have your sexual expression or whatever that activates the same biology. The point is, is it's about basic biology right and that actually for me it's been a real eye opener, because I actually came into this research from the standpoint of addressing health disparities like: why do certain communities have worse, health and initially was about access to healthcare was yeah right. I did my masters and public health at Harvard, and that was a big part of the Monica Plushie residency that were unifying specie residency that Stamford she went to Harvard she went to
We don't forget, you see, Davis man go out, do yeah. Well then, I am from you see, system that you see, Davis did not make our unify Alcott, I'm so sorry, I wouldn't like us and Larry S Mirage, but you know I don't have what you see on their site, I'm sick and one as well. The burglary makes a better answer. This is to say, as lead a black person living in America, I've definitely felt that little flutter of my fight or flight response. when I'm like a mile. Risky rhyme is there a threat to me or my kids, crazy stories of this the book, the spoiler alert, so my husband, Have four boys: do we baked in the oven to give to purchase, though we have for black boys jar three of the time cuz I hadn't been born where up in Tahoe, and you know something is around Tahoe, get real
Oh, when you're lying about aside headed towards Reno yeah, yeah yeah, so does so that where we are and our boys are sitting on a bench acting like rowdy little boys and two guys welcome behind them, and I described them in the book as like shaved heads steel, birds real, like you know, tattoos on their now, why national luck and they're, looking at our kids, crazy, like what the heck are, these kids doing, like really an I had been in the restaurant, I walk around the corner and eyes, see my husband he's looking at the kids and is looking at these fine and his fists are clenched and he looks like he's ready to brawl and the point of making the book is that my husband is white. ok, but because he has, for black kids reign the impact
of racism. All America cuz he's like I'm about to die pit it might prove my point about Wabi, while Wabi one hath Asia. We fight about this rubs wife is filipino. She's, actually have Filipino in a seer than is quarter Filipino, and I keep telling Monica that now rob is half Filipino she hates so anyways. You just kind of stumbled into a long time, joke of to look at that. Her husband is Once you have now address responses which you have largely now, I'm geryon Monica wild yeah yeah. That is wild yeah, and I guess, if you know, if your white you've had a black friend in you, places, and you felt that too by proxy or you've dated someone over that you get
not nearly the same level, but you can witness it in a brand new way. What's yours is largely unaware of art. You know just imagine. every time you see a cop in your rearview mirror it's the feeling that you had when you were drunk driving all fuck, I'm fucked, I'm going to jail literally. If every time you saw a cop you would like to meet, you know that's the idea we ve a yeah yeah. You get let's get behind your line of every single time. Why the worry is- and I think that for a minute it's a night. Listen, I'm! The surgeon, general of california- and I have the experience of. Is this person going to have a bias, Can I put my life at risk? It's all coming to the surface. I think, thank God, because I'm fucking blind eye group
You know I lived in downtown Detroit's, ninety two percent black and I'm still at forty four having things explained to me and we were like: oh, my god, yeah You know I'm trapped in my own perspective at all times, pretty much okay, I do want to just introduce an idea I had, and it's not to make you defend what you've been saying, but didn't have this thought the other day I watched a million documentaries about baboons chimpanzees orangutan Gorillaz these videos they witness almost daily physical abuse from an outranking mailer. Male sexual trauma, orangutans rape, each other- there are interspecies wars that have and where they witness homicides about homicides hominids. But when I look at that, pardon me goes shit. We are so hard wired to deal with this stuff. We have to have bet, there's no reason that we are also great apes and I can look
but all the other great apes and their dealing with just daily trauma by all definitions, and we must have the mechanisms and we couldn't have just a volunteer to lose them so There is a voice. My have it goes. A horse shit were designed to deal with trauma. Have you read the research on cortisol in private? is it off the charts All we know a lot of this stuff, because yeah monkey do the same thing. Private insane so Rob supports key he's at Stanford, heedless, went out and lived in the Bush and track monkeys and monkeys. Gorillas, gorillas You can tell him not a primate tall, you get up so trapped guerrillas and he measured cortisol levels. I guess what the lower ranking you write the higher
your court in the level, except in one condition. This is fascinating is that when you have the highest ranking guerrilla and then something happens that shuffles it up? Where there's a threat of losing their privilege, in that instance, the gorilla that has the most have led to lose their cortisol level, whether the citizens right bags of ass, an aim. But this is where the ones that have that alone, thinking they have the highest quarters inflammation that the highest level of illness they live shorter. They all of the above. That makes sense why zebras don't get ulcers zebras don't get ulcers. I will okay another thing and you- and I talked about this a little bit before we started, which I think is interesting stuff.
Where's, starting here more and more about generational trauma in kind of inherent teen trauma in a most frequently its brought up in reference to the black experience in America, which makes a ton a sense. I of course was a little bit like all. Then we can you can't change your dna. No part of Europe experiences can alter your dna or pass on that, and so I brought it up to you and then you explained to me in artful detail what actually and how that can be transmitted generationally. So it doesn't change your genetic code,
your dna, the atgc. What researchers found is that on our dna there are markers that called epigenetic markers, because epigenetic means above the GINO, and these markers tell us how our dna should be read. They put markers on sequences of dna, which essentially say skip this next segment. Don't bother to read this next segment of dna or hey, you know how much inflammation you have read that twice make some extra copies of that right. So it's this epigenetic regulation, one of the things I say it's like if the DNA are musical notes there, like the musical notations, which tells your body how to play that segment hand, and I can also lead to computer program that again go go
it's a long, twenty relaxing on thirty! That's exactly rang right! So our happy genetic regulation is very strongly shaped by our environment. And that actually can be handed down from one generation to the next. So, for example, the way that we know this their stand. This they die on research in the children and grandchildren of holocaust survivors, using naturally occurring circumstances. severe trauma and scenes changes in their appy genetic markers raids. That also coincided with increased risk of health in mental health in behavior our problems. But again we do. We also see this across species, but here's what's totally dope right
play. This is what we were talking about, so we used to say which is more important, nature or nurture, and now we know that it's actually, your environment shapes how your biology manifests or right and here's what's really dope about it. Is that Some of this research about nurturing relationships. There's evidence to show that these nurturing relationships can actually change. Epigenetic so. We literally seen this in rats where, when they take baby rats, stress them out, and then the moms either do lots of during care or some rat moms kind of naturally did a little bit less nurturing care and the rat pops, whose moms did a lot of nurturing care. They had better. Decorative functioning right, like they perform better on tests.
They had a more normally functioning stress response that turned itself off normally after the stress her was done and what they found was that that was associated with the changes in these happy genetic markers and that they handed it down to the next generation and the praise. Thing is that in these experiments, when they took the next generation of rats- and they stress them out again but this time instead of giving them to their biological mom, they switch them and they gave the pups are biologically from a mom who didn't do a lot of nurturing care to a mom. Who did do a lot of nurturing care? Those pops better executive, functioning, more normal stress response and they had the epigenetic markers of the mom. Raise them not their biological mom. So this is what the science is showing us is that nurturing care really can change us all the way.
Rdna, which I think is really cool. Yes, very cool it's got me to buy in actually bought in every call again twenty years ago, in a cycle to class learning that schizophrenia is a genetic right, so you eat generally. Can pass that on and is it was explained to us again and probably changed in twenty years, but there were people who went when identified as having the genetic marker for it or encouraged and not do anything stressful between the ages of eighteen and twenty four. That's kind of wine is generally sets on. If you carry the marker, is that still how we think of schizophrenia? And if so, where, terrified to also become schizophrenic by tariff ids. Solutely. I was Adam and I think some of the research shows that even for example, again like we are understanding a lot
how this combination of nature and nurture so even, for example, identical twins were one develop schizophrenia. I think the other one. Don't quote me on this, but I think it's like eighty percent chance. Okay, so I can, even though they have the identical dna, they don't just necessarily both get it. shouldn't between genes and environment- and yeah I had a mom hoods parents. It's ready and I also have very stressful environment way right. I, which was really challenging. What am I four brothers, ended up developing gets a funny. How did he have a dramatic event significantly more profound than any of you guys did in that window? Honestly, I think he was more sensitive, aha, but I also Look like one of the things that research also shows is that you can have five kids growing up in the same family who have different experiences,
and part of this is around buffering care. Part of the work is increasing state the cumulative dose of buffering in the community because it could be like your soccer coach who's that or it could be. You know your pastor or your rabbi or your mom, or it could be. Who you know your next door neighbor or whoever is that person who is able to be that between care and the more sources you have, the better rain. For me, my dad was a huge buffer for me, so my dad is a biochemists. Yes, appeared the inorganic chemistry, no long, and we all hope that class. But but it was a really interesting experience, my family, because of all of my brother
none of them were really scientifically inclined. None of them have gone into the sciences. I like out the gate just loved science, and that was thing that my dad and I totally bonded over, like we were like the nerd, father and daughter like doing natural experiment, the kitchen ray, I'm not with a big source of buffering for me so off topic, but I'm just going to ask you anyways. We recently heard a different podcast, is a woman on there talking about that's so many folks. This is so dangerous, I'm going to repeat what they say
so many folks that get into these ivy league colleges, better African American, that have had some kind of waited admissions through affirmative action go with the intention of exploring some kind of stem pursuit and they gave Michelle Obama even as an example and her book. She talks about having gone there to get into medicine and then being kind of redirected towards something else. Did you feel pressured to drop that pursued or what do you think of that situation in general? I don't know that That's fine! I'm not! I wouldn't be surprised. If I heard at I mean, I would say, I know a lot of people who were pretty met him I said when I heard at but african american doctors right. So, let's just say you went through college. You two were pre med. You go through medical school in you go. The whole way are five times as like
to serve underserved communities right I'll, go tell you, you don't make it look buddy as caucasian but seriously. Listen, I think that just You know you're a parent right like if you saw a dad in the park and he had two little girls and something was going on. He was kind of struggling you'd be like man. I got to help him out. Similarly, I think because people of color we do, we walk through the world, and we see the experiences, and I will tell you that I, when I was in college, I would spend all my summers doing like these pre. Ed training programmes and the M card that horrible People have to take like em cat training programmes, and I remember I went to do this M cat training programme was in Chicago
and who's leading this for students of color she's. Like don't worry about China, too hard because you know the average black person who gets into medical school. They have lower Mcat. anyways. What are you? Are you, take me to lower my stand. right leg- and this is the programme for students. Unfortunately, for me, I feel, like my parents taught me the opposite, and it was really wonderful that you know my dad's a Phd in organic chemistry. My mom's and they always talk like hey. You have to like get your education. They had very, very high expectations for me and for me that was actually ultimately
the reasons why it was really important for me to open this clinic in this really underserved neighborhood in San Francisco, because I just felt like you know what this community, that is mostly low income, african american and latino and pacific Islander they need a doctor who went to Harvard from Berkeley, and you see Davis and yeah well, Doktor Harris what a pleasure you really really fun. When my favorite topics, I'm so happy for you made it They had high expectations and deliver it yeah. Well, either they weren't indian Barents illicit jamaican parents are no doubt this is my dream. Job I have to say I love science and I love people and I love using science to help people be healthier, and so I'm
grateful. I think it were in the hat. Well, I think they picked you out. About nice handwriting. Your yeah. He wrote a note and it I think, is nice handwriting.
Farewell little far away, and I am now I am. I got us so the compliment is only so strong you and I wasted. I don't know forty minutes last night, looking at sharp teeth, because you didn't have your glasses, and I was like the ether sorry that I am very sorry that you can wear on your neck. They cut you only known as the soft, partly and now I still feel like if you're wearing a sharp shark too thin air raid on your body- and you know you're jumping around on it- cuts you well dad who hold on. I don't think he could cut you because there's gotta be some opposite force. On the opposite end of the the tooth, but it's just jiggling around you know, I'm saying: there's no hand pushing it down Don't know what? If someone pushes you ok? Well now you're paint putting Britain different circle NL, the girl, that's my point is in life, shit happen
You fall down. People push you you're, jumping in something you that's what I mean it's too dangerous. Well, I wonder rob at it. Died from owning a shark tooth necklace. Maybe lesson as you can tell us: if you know someone who have died, Normie us you something close your eyes closed them tight and wanted to sell it turns out, I'm wrestling around in your nose with a napkin, but I thought it sounded like someone rolling around in the brooklinens big stretch. I would never thought you'd ordained the tissue in my he knows me bring in the tissue up to my big. Your brain did the rest. He yeah my brain works pretty. Well, you got a damn good brain. I really liked Maybe my now you know my friend Lizzie one
smartest friends. Lizzy is also the person I turn to for all the jewish question She was like hey, you guys, think about having person on she'd read about her something, and then I put two and two together that that was the person that was involved in these. Aces that we had heard about a while ago. So then so the uneven. No. At that point she was a surgeon, General California and soldiers, a style. You know my fav kinds of episodes are ones where like as soon as we finish, recording them I'll like reach out to my mom, going like. Oh, my god, we just recorded when you have to yeah, and I think I've already told like three or four people that they have to listen to Her hair yeah ass, a great up so that it can be confused with Doktor SAM Harris Z, about I guess he is cuz,
I kind of wish medical doctors had a different through. I still motorway of M D. Give it you don't say that arise, the empty differentiate. You just say doctor age, although I should say that, because I love professors yeah, you do so. I gave you doctors. I don't think he was a doctor at that point, but she sent a follow up email T just see about was ok, which was Remember I don't know it's a two months ago I was, I was saying nothing to feel bad about witches and you stay got a certain identity. Some of the cost of that are sometimes people aren't too worried about you, so it felt very nice that she was like. Are you okay, I said I don't know. I think I am. How does one know if they're, okay.
Oh yeah, are you functioning? Are you happy? Are you working yeah? Can you feel happy most days, pretty girl, I guess you're right, but you know the same as those eyes. Oh you had all these issues is clear, but then We wonder like oh, is there a specific treatment for aces like mainly personal relations, positive personal relationships and quite a few of the Mediterranean, which you do who sometimes and so they were young, very good about there. yeah. I think I'm gonna live, I won't live twenty or shorter, beat off the nose. You said the doktor knows
not raced over to Glendale and erased over here, and I did. I had a little fantasy about this product total illusion. So this way and I'll be this way even retirement, but I had this notion of being retired just dilly dallying my way everywhere, and I imagine that's going to be good for my body. I don't think that's going to happen now I dont mean that would happen from me either. I don't, I don't think I have delayed year now and I'm your whole life kind of was mainly doing assistant work for Kristen that specific kind of work. I was manic like I know, and I could tell, and at the end of the day I would like recognize that I was state. I was in a brain state that wasn't healthy because of
trillium balls in the air. Was it just the volume of things the amount of said the air at once, not for me for somebody else, So it was. It felt like pressure, mixed with this, like? No? No, no, no! No! No! I didn't have any evaluation of it. I just had my brain was just working at a hundred miles an hour all day, trying to hold like beat fingers was to be remembering the apple. But but it was weird because I was recognising us, I'm in this sort of man, s state. My could tell when I was in it, but I also can alike did sure would people who have manic spells they enjoy the manic spells. It feels really productive you're a little high, your
yeah yeah, but I think it's your a high on your ability to be able to do it. A manager YAP, the EP, well Sunshine amount. Mechanically. Things are like drawn ally's Yahoo and getting you extra near by taking an extra oxen maybe, but I was saying that, because you do good on you and I both do good on vacation, what are the type of people that need to like see on vacation, I will sit down in a chair and vacation and stay in it for twelve hours, you know, that's changed for me because I? U still I go of occasion and I had a list of things that I had did Russians I had to go to lay them. Yes, I tiree an ideology
what's wrong with my family to New York, and I really want to go to sound deputy and maybe when line was like three hours and they said no and I was furious, you would have waited for three. Oh yeah you're amazing about the premier in London. Oh sure, you're, a great patient, four aligns when you want to do the things that I really need to have. Oh yeah, yeah away by was walking down the street and there is a billboard said three oral sex with scarlet Joe. and there is more than ten people malign. I'm gonna keep moving that's so weird yeah don't. I don't know that I enjoy. Anything in life is much as I dislike waving tat, interesting, the illegal arrests. I'm like I got my mind, set on it, I'm already eating it on the car ride, get there there's like, seven people mingling in the doorway and I'll just keep driving past the place.
So many ways to distract yourself now, like podcast and stuff? I just Maybe if I were with like you val and Jess and whatever I knew you were going to cut up and have fun and make fart noises in my oh, my god, he got to tell it stop so. Naturally, we have a story to tell it's someone yesterday and I'll add that it was a pretty female for me Sydney's new bars. You know I'm generally mostly paleo, and so they fit into that that sounds he ass white pounded like two or three those bars in the morning and then throughout the whole interview. I found that I was getting very gashes and I was really holding them
Beastly want a small space, its own discomfort, blah blah blah. For me, we go outside to take the photograph as we do at the end of the interview, and it was a rate interview only on and we got along with her, really well out there and then we're taking a picture yby changed his focal length at one point or is aperture something, and I was about to comment on that and right as I was about to speak, I did up. a real loud fart. I mean it came out of nowhere. I have no warning that it was as big of a surprise to me. Was trying to Wabi. While they were, woman is longer than the Wazirs LAW Right junior year. You're more objective me: I do what you all know, I'm going to push back a bit, because maybe that lengthy curve, but
that. You're sounded wack, good farts but his eyes his wet it might and no way Anyone thing I needed to go like check myself for white birds, change my meundies. It was a lot drier than that, but up, but I can see that it might have been that blank, the volume it was. Oh loud in Mamma had had You had a runs who, in addition and this one hour break, we have. I did so. I miss this moment. You, MRS moment in there was no missing it. If you were within twelve or fifteen feet of other. You heard that why did I was driving acknowledge eyes far back at the other end, he was so obvious, an unavoidable that I mean these go. Oh my god afforded I'm sorry and carefully that in its complex her she was like all my. I love that it is far image. You clearly just be nice to makers. We
will you- and I really really I'm hammered this out last night. What are the different levels that go on and you were like? What's fine if she said she thought it was funny, and then we were playing this game like hypothetical. What if we had Scarlett Johansson on and she tooted during the pictures in your right like I'd first, I would like now, but then I really put myself in that situation me in the eye. What I decided was I was, I would either be neutral of of it or even may be. Thank you was cute yeah, but I would also be overcome with the co. Dependent, of course, second hand, embarrassment than I know, she's feeling he and I would take that on. I so, however, cool this gale was yesterday. She had to have been like. Oh my god, he's
on bare how I've got a comfort. This is like the re state, AIDS or comfort people who were bought. It seemed for green raises the that's different EU foreign and you couldn't help air and that I did not you didn't nine on islands, everyone site house injure in this far its mixture of feeling a bit like? Oh no he's embarrassed, but also the probably the mirror neurons like that. Position. I like what jogged why memorably in head is been sixteen years. Since I forwarded in front a someone on acts, it arise as a very heated affliction. It is, it is before you can. Control of yours well. I was casino how to paddle, to the very beginning of the movie, where I climb a very tall rope up to a tree fort in something about you,
exerting myself. The in this manner was climbing and the whole crew is staring me climbing the rope. There's like eighty people in a moon shape around the rope and I get a midway out. So I'm virtually my butt is just maybe a foot above everyone's head, and I just one just rips out in he climbed. You ever know why, no here's what happened because we're rolling we're filming me and my only love I don't know much about movies at that point, when I don't even know that they can draw up a sound for a second. Whatever here point is I get to the top of the tree house and was maybe twenty feet off the ground I get up. Stan? I say whatever I'm supposed to say in a meal after I go guys. I know I are there and then everyone started laughing, as everyone did in fact here at ya. First Movie
To me that's way worse than what happened yesterday. No, I would argue not because I because those eighty people could share it also public that it's almost like they were protected in there in there. Your numbers up a lot of people laughing at you, but it's worse because there's something about someone exert a lot of energy really focused and then farting? That's so embarrassing. But I'm more going into like. Let's put it this way, what would be more embarrassing, you're in an elevator, it's just two of you and you laid out of You're like in line to get an apple product in, like forty people, hear you fart,
that is way worse to me, and they all hear it yeah that's way, worse are just think they can all look at each other and share it, and then they're alleviated number yeah? I think you're now thinking of it from the perspective of yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that I'm talking about the person and farther than use, you can't remember one in adulthood in your inclined to think it hasn't been. Since you were a kid, I don't think so, I, like I know it's gonna have this time around there you would be must be so upset. Europe course. I am turn. Eighteen, while we hijacked hear your fact check with a fart check boy, that was not it's good to be it's good to me. melanated occasionally cuz. We are saying there is no
there's no embarrassment like that one. That is the ultimate I was saying. I would rather of walk through a plate, glass window or spilled like a hole smoothie on my shirt is something a droll of your, but all is one also mainly because it could come with a smell all right, which is denied. Oh, my gosh. Thank God, thing got there was no smell. I didn't smell it is all this conversation is only I am out of sight. I far did oh boy, sorry, just like all mean that so cute Babo Bob and then, unlike now. Instead, the clock is ticking, unlike ok, will shortly. If there's a we were very kind words dancing. So close, my car, you go well, it would have been worse if it were silent, but but and I said no, no, no because of what but Adonis gotten hurry mail in
Hey sorry, Rob farted during a picture session. Has that sometimes I got to just like the only one reason this is kind of extra bag. It's a stranger that you just hadn't expected dance with they have some opinion of you now Some judgment of you now part of it is like a thing. He farts alike were exactly will that's definitely what our gas things are. There's, no She thinks that that that was that it had been sixteen years since that last happened. She's, like the tragedy in the who, wow what a good question because those bars and then just a total lack of war. It normally. I can feel some activity down there and I noted clinch my my bottom cheeks were do without you. Gotta do. But this this came. I was
rod cited by the civil been there. Everyone knows exactly what you're talking about both also it so funny about it. She was hugging, you did to squeeze you about passenger. Nobody review would call like we had our arms or only to looking at your camera. We were like facing now, but enough. She had like tight around my waist area. No! No, I think it was it was in my latissimus. Maybe she was holding me oh, how any well that's more than that really do ok anyway says aces. Swishing back I want to read them to people know. Please do ok, there's tell. Can I M a check when you ok, ok, lobby, to count years unanimously, which one do you don't I in our view, said that aid.
Zero, but I have one birthday: did a parent or other adult in the household often or very often swear at you insult. You put you down or humiliate you or act in a way that made you afraid that you might be physically hurt number two before your eightieth birth they did parent or other adult in the household, often or very often, push grab slap or throw something at you forever hit you so hard that you had marks or were injured three before your 18th birthday did an adult or person at least five years older than you ever touch or fondle or have you touch their body in a sexual way or attempt, or actually have oral anal or vaginal intercourse with you before,
it didn't birth? They did. You often are very often feel that no one in your family loved you, I thought you were important or special or your family didn't look out for each other feel close to each other or support each other before your agent birthday, you often, or very often feel that you didn't have enough to eat, had to wear dirty clothes and had no one to protect you or your parents were too drunk or high to take care of you or take you to the doctor if you needed it. This is where for me, as we go through these because a lot of these, I would say no to my primary living situation with my mom air, but then you know it weakens with dad right. Has the council not like our dear, neither have Norton before your 18th birthday. Was a biological parent ever lost you through divorce abandonment or other reason, before your eight but there was your mother or stepmother, often or very often pushed grabbed slapped or had something thrown at her or
sometimes often or very often kicked bitten hit with a fist or hit with something hard or ever repeatedly hit over at least a few minutes or threatened with a gun or knife. before your 18th birthday. Did you live with anyone who was a problem drinker or alcoholic or used street drugs before your 18th birthday was a household member pressed or mentally ill or did a household member attempt suicide before your agent did a household member go to prison? Okay, that's all might have to ha answering these bills, hearted it as we are hard because you got what you I I think he tried a minimum why you know I'll nearly as this would be. A consistent performance is often more optimism and like especially with the one about physical fear of getting whenever
It's like also at that time, kids were getting hit like as as punishment, which is, in my opinion, then just getting hit difference, in my mind would be. Was your parents administering a consequence right, or was your parent enraged and hitting you right, but I think that me would be how you delineate between that lost control and started hitting you or did they go, I told you four times now: you're gonna get a spying writing to spanks and that's it they're, not enraged or totally making you feel completely unsafe, but you brought it feel unsafe when you're getting spanked reproaches didn't like it yeah, I don't think so. The moon, metal thing people feel safe when they're getting spank, which is why spanking has now
on the way of the Dodo, my grandmother used to spank me and she would do it with a yardstick sometimes or a paint stir paddle. But I just I wasn't: beard she was going to lose control, I felt like she was in control. Trevor moments where they were so angry that it was still a consequence, but it was like behave with anger, yeah you're workers. In that situation. and I would be a scared like. Where is this going right can see when someone doesn't have control themselves and of a big and it is hitting you and you
can see, they don't have control the natural you're like how far as is gonna, go or like. I remember it like my brother and I used to fight nonstop, yet only normal, and he would beat me up, and that was fine, but there was there was one incident, one incident where we are fighting at my dad's house and he was now teenager, so he had so many hormones and everything and I'm here I was driving them insane and it got to the point where we fought and he got on top of me and I used to have these carrying cases my hot wheels cars in inside the case. They have these plastic hard plastic grids that each car would go in and he took that and he pushed it on my face and he was pushing it with his whole body weight in it my nose and was staring up at him, and I really was thinking. Oh gosh he's lost
complete new role. I dont know how bad he's gonna hurt me yeah. I guess that's out, that's how I would be no near defined. It is yeah, maybe trauma he adds its lead away. Don't blame him at all. He was crazy, chaotic situation very toward father and we're pouncing around the houses and bit Serbians. I absolve him a ball guilt see you at one. You think I don't know. I definitely had one at least one yeah. I think I have between one and three hard when you have good, Aaron start to think about the deadline. In that way. Yeah until I really heard a value anything like her here, but but you could have a good parents whose incredibly loving, whose of fuckin attic to nods out on the couch and yeah I've missed you
meaning a trip to the hospital. So it's like business, I mean you're, bad or evil, Yeah I mean I guess I would probably say that that's not a good. Pair, and I doubt that not everyone knew her love. Then right, that's not good parent team, but it's not. It's me. That's different than choosing the injury or child does those aren't for me. Binary like there's a whole spectrum of parenting and what's healthy and what's not healthy, and I also think loving you child is mutually exclusive, candy from from hitting them from neglecting that from all of those things, I don't I think most parents love their kids. I think biologically they do, but I think you can still be a knot.
Although some parents, and understandably they resent that killed as a result, the deck he had his change their life and away there not enjoying the stuck with cited here. I think that's rare and she said She was like most parents want their kids Is it to ya? Even when they're gay you have a lot of these things, but why are you in a year there? Maybe a couple? Those like you goes on. Maybe it's not a man devilry, six or black and white for me, but yeah. I think I mean I I guess I'm a take away is even without the screening attack. I guess why? Don't you just teach kids early regardless to build personal relationships to meditate to sleep well liked,
sleep training every person as a preventative cuz. Why not? It's never going to hurt you to do any of those things, so it's only going to help every kid, and so, if you're saying like we're going to leave them in the house, given those tools from the beginning. Instead of evaluate Booty disposal doesn't exist. Anyway, railroad and amusing oxen already been sounds in my body. He all right So yes, she was talking about the Vince Voleti study on Tri city? Yes, that's what sort of started this ace research? He heedlessness obesity, trial, and everyone was dropping out and he couldn't understand why people were dropping out because they were
using way so is like a fifty percent drop out rain. He was like one, what is going on it's working. Why would they leave and then so? So then he went and started talking to those people who dropped out brides, he found so then he accidentally said how much did you weigh when you had your first experience, but I was led by the time he was asking on these questions. Forty minutes owns, I know he will. My girls was so upsetting as when I why soaking wet out of the shower and forty lb. Breast reduction surgery might go get yourself under eighty. I think a where fifteen pounds you don't look so now well
get them on scalp that I need to test the hell. I guess I could My bodies attack us a double whatever the number one will get a physicist to give us of calculating. able to come in I'm sure he has a new scan volume Times mass equals. Ask him any questions? I need so love. I now I love him. So much so busy, but I loved the load room hire him as are our resident doc, We do so at any moment Eric and pop out about us through an answer. Why did he die? That's great yeah, any So you said what you said this a few times now and the past this week, you've said yeah millennials, you know they when I hear that they can't work at a place on
boss. Take some the lunch four times a year. You said that exact phrase couple times. I don't know if he heard that noise coming from, where is the evergreen complaints, was that the student had never been to her professor's house for dinner. ok, you fucking getting me sure that runs that's one burst and then also you know, there's these this whole new employment approach employed by Google and all these tech companies that rely on young people and they have to play games for x Mount of the day and they have you know, there's that there is being millennial that sees tat companies? They are recognising, like
brain stimulation that happens in those activities is then gonna create some creativity and it is not enough. Not does that is that turn over. They can afford turnover and millennials, unlike my generation, in an even more so the generation before me. Most people got a job in that job became their career in they stayed there twenty thirty forty years? That's not the paradigm. Any more people will have eleven different employers by the time, their thirty. Yes, oh just knowing that there already in a situation that they have no intention of being there for more than two years. You have to now start heading off any grievance. They might have. That would cause this turn over. So there they are coddling. These tech, which I have no f. judgment about it. The markets demanding that they act this way as the market will do, maybe I guess all that's true, but I don't I don't know if I like. The playing games is because of that I mean
Tampa supposed to be awesome all the day than they do at ever hook up with people. Jungle gym, but I think that's an extreme thing that you're saying that's not true, bill a straight upon. I know what you're saying it as if, like you heard that somewhere, what kind of did you didn't heart disease woman was furious that are professor, never had her over to dinner. Ok, we you don't say that you say millennials aren't getting their bosses. Aren't taking them out to lunch four times a week, a point like back as then you're making the sweeping Judgment in your room is as you decisions at a moment in anyway. If I go well, here's the thing about, millennials one millennium wanted to go to dinner at or prefer ass Okay. Well, that's that's. What's happened, a judgment of a group of people based on one
uncoupling it with what I know about the tech industry and how they have to prevent these young. Alt from leaving and going to another company, but look not every millennials intact. That's a tough one hundred percent and yeah might be about retention, but it's probably because these people are hard to come. you are really good. Even let me backup Henry Ford was one of the first people to kind of over pay his poisoning overpaid his employees because he had done the math and he found out what the price of turnover was any figured out that it be cheaper to pay them more than to have turn over cuz. This a period of training them and all this shit. So I'm just saying the market forced him to pay people more to deal with turnover, and I think that currently happening still into me.
Different generation? It seems a little coddling, but if it's happening in Henry Ford generation, it's not millennials, it's annoying that has had been happening forever. Yes, yes, I'm saying that this is always happen, but where is it used to be pay them Weis what the going rate was an hour now, it's masseuse on staff? Get your wonders: Jungle, Gm Maize or wherever s not try it out. Above a you know, it's great it's like me. it's like at working at a help. Today, it's made of everything you just said is completely made calling to have a masseuse on staff. Maybe they do part of the main reason that that is also happening is because these people
our working twenty hours a day, so their hard great workers now. But the point is the reason: there's like a bad, maybe take a nap is cause. They expect you to constantly be on and working that's new gear. Will. That is the the rationale behind the free, dining room. Cuz then it'll encourage co workers to sit at a table and eat this free food and then they'll end up talking about the project and get so. Yes, I can see that that's his colleague work set, not flax, which is great like every time. You tell me something that they do not like someone, that's amazing. I know, but freezer eggs appear, though, paid a freezer eggs which we will do. They pay a four for a bird s right to and from work, which is all like on the surface you're, taking that in as like they're giving them all the stuff to retain, but it's not to retain they. Let they want to pay for uber but in the morning they can work in the car they are paying for the
freezing so that you don't feel like you have to leave your job and have a baby. It's all for the sake of working. More and longer and all the time, so I don't think it's that I'll, ask Google that have a part time. Masseuse I can now she's a milliner, modern everyone. She was the part one. It started up with forty employees, she had of part time job money and please she was rubbing down forty people in eighteen. Eighty, call Jesus. Twenty years ago years ago, before millennials were working, interesting. I think it's more likely that they hire masseuses to come in.
post to keep anyone on staff I'll tell you why they want healthcare in retirement and stock options, something he read which I was bar, but the only way I could find- about millennials and lunch, and then there was a time one heels and let me, but of a kind of no, there was a ton of articles on this exact thing, which is millennials, want lunch breaks but feel like they can't take them which go to my point where they feel like they have to work all the time and I'm saying they, but I'm one them, so I and you always have to have dinner with your boss-
makes me. Have the auditors fanny? Why anyway, but see Nevada masseuse at work. I mean. I guess it were, but I am there if this is to my point of a really going to talk about it. I don't leave really don't leave. I leave for five hours. I mean I physically don't leave that environment, I would say I'm a my house, what's I don't by the way I'm grateful for this I'd love to be at that your house, but I probably go home at Tat S right right back at seven, I mean eighty, the ten hours- and I love it- that's also. This is also a legal situation shots and was not the same situation. Where will we wiser wins unveiling? Let them assistance
What are the sole shopping? Roma were all on a team brown team and were blown money, some rhymes with massages in vacations is what's happening, yeah, but the vacations are for work a product of the work We can afford to go on vacation cuz. We all do this work together. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So manuals don't be upset that Dax keeps talking about how many want a lunch with us a Europe. One arm chairs like shit. That's me. I want to go to I don't even know I'm saying it because in reality, who wants to go to lunch with their balls, I'm sorry, you have to you have to fill a fun archetype. For the sake of fungi,
saint, just as my generous ass to fill in archetype, now look eating. The greatest generation was really are all great y. All now the greatest innovation wasn't all gray, but where we gave them that archetype and I'm sticking with it. You know, I'm talking, I think you're. The greatest generational Dingus generally, should have fought in regard to the greatest generation. Now. Clearly a lot of those people were scumbags, but we call it. The greatest generation goes if it's easy and fun and we tell stories and light. We only think and stories, and there are here Those are the greatest generation. I disagree, mediocre generation! Oh wow, that's sweet! Look! I'll, be honest. I think MILAN Those are one of the best generation, not Jan ACT. z or whatever the one is under millennials. Millennials are not fucking. Know
that is not true. Your text Jen, you are talking about the one below and I'm a millennial I'm saying is we have many people here see that millennials are having less sex basic gin? Where were you to set out the that the generation that is totally isolated and on their phone end, that's the them. Millennials have happened: half they haven't lived, half a life with out all that technology and half with so they are not the ones that are even Jonathan height when he came on. He made the distinct distinction. He's a lot. Millennials rob We want frustrates, you shouldn't, be a millennium. Think millennials should be anyone born for two
Also, the new millennium? That I know is that you get occur in this, a man tax on labour com. I wanna call me the Falcon nineteen hundred. I agree. I don't really get why ok Robs got some nineteen anyone's. Ninety. Ninety six is millennial right, so stupid, but I think maybe it's because I know It's because when the millennium changed over, this group was young Rite aid around the turn of the 21st century. Did it I am at this man, don't you like idea of them than the ones that were born after the new millennium yeah, I mean what I dont like is play. My brother and I are in the same group, and I don't like that- my brothers and ninety six weeks of genetic someone or my brother, and I are sixty five to seventy nine bomb,
Ingenix and my brother? Is he sixty nine I'm seventy five anyway. Millennials you're done great you're a good job, and you worked really hard on him before generations. The baby yeah That's my mom, my mom too, in the silent generation, his twenty seven. Forty thousand, we don't know any those people in my dad Twond ease at what twenty eight forty five you know sporty five specified brother is too is on the cards be about humanely is on the other. You said that he, your doctor, said it was important for mood stabilization norepinephrine adrenaline
energy and attentiveness, so that would be the mood part that you're talking about, but it's a both a hormone and a brain neurotransmitter or Oh, it's mainly stored in the neurons nerve cells of the sympathetic nervous system, with small amount also stored in a drain on tissue which lay on top of your kidneys. So maybe you have some in other places, but I don't think I want for attention don't feel like. I'm unfocused and you have energy yeah. I mean a mile or two caffeine, nicotine some supplementing, maybe anyway, that's all that's all you ve ever had a bloodline, done to see what's happening in your body. Can I get a blood work done at the doctor? I think that's really important to do
doctor in Aragon. Helping go anywhere. Toby was a full body scanners and take our black spit mecca pv cough some coffee, all hell hole the lobby, while an ice nods have turned the left. Car he's gonna be weighing my beards Shari yeah. It's only fair if I had to bear like fire to give a real bad. I bet you while we walked testicles way more than mine, ok, we'll based on one end. Thank you I'm not positive yeah. What you he's got youth on his side. I would say youth would make it last night at full of a spurt, Netteke material yeah, very interesting. What I love I love you, really liked Nadine. I would love to talk to her again, goodnight,