Ellen DeGeneres (Ellen, The Ellen DeGeneres show) is an American comedian, daytime talk show host, actress, writer, producer and one of Dax’s true loves. Ellen sits down with Dax in her podcast debut to discuss getting invited to Johnny Carson’s couch, reinventing a career at age 45 and the fall out of her public coming out. Dax admits men are disgusting and Ellen reveals she questioned whether she would make it to adulthood. They talk about what its like to be an unintentional advocate for an entire community, the need to be free from secrets and Dax makes a public declaration that he’d like to kiss Ellen more.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello! Welcome to the armchair expert, I'm your house Zack brass today, I'm speaking with a good friend of mine, Ellen Degenerous, you ve, probably never heard of her she's, mostly unknown. I mean she does have a daytime. Show that's pretty popular she's. Had many sick coms, in fact she is such a power, has, I think she even has a game, show that's very popular so it's hard to get a few minutes with this woman and she was gracious enough to give us some of her time. This is a shorter episode then you're used to because of her challenging schedule, unlimited window of opportunity, so you might notice I'm going a little quick through here, I'm kind of trying to take you from soup. The knots in an accelerated way you'll have to bear with that, because she is so worth it Ellen.
numerous he's not because I have even for such Harry, I'm not jump right. John. I am again. I just tell you that I very much interest and stand up when I was younger and I used to watch. Everything stand up, unlike comedy control wherever they showed a back then, and I really really liked you as a comedian when I was younger and the thing that I think is defined you. You could differ in this opinion. Is your embrace of silence and your commitment, your pacing, was very, very unique yeah, and so that was uncertain the other day. He was talking about that. The comedians he's most drawn tomb has the most him on respect for it. It's the ones that can embrace that scary period, where you're just waiting the who and what
How can you do that? Why? Why were you so confident that a volley of, or did you start, was that your brand of stand ready the gates? No? Not at all? Now my brand was really bad corny. Is enhanced and like really silly really silly things like drugs are now a guy would I would just like bring out different fabric. I would hold like I'm already laugh at the audience is quietly I will just now. We just show people a broken. Then I get up. Something else now would show em men, then I did that for a while and I'd say I was just trying out new material and I would do like. I would I use this pass out my autograph, because I would notice that big celebrities. You had to wait in line, and so I wanted to be thoughtful ahead of time. So I passed out my autograph and and seven people justly
on the table they laughed and MA. Am I just did? a lot of props dovetail. Did you like Andy Kaufman, rather bizarre anyone that you were kind everything I am, and I bet I heard about his stuff, but now bob new heart was a big influences of mine on Woody Allen and Steve Martin, and now I think that as I go a little more confident. Low, better and had material. I was happy with it violence that the biggest sigh until I had where the phone call to God. That was the functioning I was waiting on for the other empty side of the conversation which was really dangerous to do at a club. Porsche showed a clip of that at your birthday. Party right was at the club that that was shown in the little video package phone call, the guy. yeah. What did you do that? I'm Carson yeah? That was my first appearance right, yeah I I think so, but it was like it Monday, when you do with phone call, the God like it is literally year just waiting for people to scream and fulfil in that, whatever the other side of the conversation is, but that was
I fear when I started doing the talk show is that I wouldn't be able to have, because you can't too many silences on on television jack. It's different, and I thought It'll ruin my entire kind of that's. My rhythm is just having pauses, and I can't do that on the shelf. You still do you have this still bizarre confidence in silence, which is just as is very rare and unique. I love it when you do. I do want to ask you when you were on Carson for people not now that the big thing with Carson was, if he really really liked you write, he invited you over to the couch, so you go into that perform its knowing that He's gonna call me over the couch or not and I'll know whether I soccer did great What is that experience like? Well, this I've told the story before but I'll I'll condense had little bed. I on my girlfriend was killed in a car accident when I was like twenty years old and I wasn't doing comedy I was, I think I was probably waitresses someplace at the time.
I was living with her and when she was killed. I couldn't afford a live where we're living together, and so I moved into this this tiny little basement apart and that was his assent, Orleans yeah, ok, as if some moved into this basement apartment that I was sleeping on a map on the floor was invested with fleas, and I was just thing I just an ice to write a letter. I wrote, poetry and songs and stuff, and I I thought why is this? beautiful twenty one year old girl just gone. please or here, and I just not. It would be amazing if, if we could just pick up the phone and call up God and ask questions, actually get an answer Ryan. So I started writing and I just thought you know it rings along time. Was it's a big place? an unholy right away and edges, adjust it just unfold that I just broke the entire thing and when I fear I read it and I thought, oh, my god, that's hilarious on what to do this on Johnny Carson. I would be the first woman in the history of the show to be called over to sit down, and God
yeah and I and I'd never done stand up. Oh you have even Duns Nanda they came to you like I've heard hit songs, be deceived. I'd, like, were the writer just gets kind of the whole song out of nowhere and half a pint over now I thought I'd just wrote. It just came out. Nato came out of this pen that was moving on the page prior to that. Did you deal with what would order you in your family? Are you we'll child area just me and my brother, and in your older, younger younger Ok, so you were you lightning. The mood in your house with Kommeni. He laughed out one night, parents divorce. It was just me and my mother, okay and that's a bizarre split unconventional yeah. He went on the road, he was a musician said. Ah he just left. Ok, he was old enough to leave now really he was like.
teen, that's not all. Now we don't advised that he left he's gone and done it. Is you and mom? Is this me? Did you feel like you're lightning, the load with her? Did you get Credit Europe, yet that was sort of where it started started? Yeah, that's how it happens here. I was milltown. Kishar. Curiously, I was gonna sit over there. Every region is out of what does that mean something being the middle child? It does because it generally there's a baby in the max, so the baby's Vulcan, that's in their either distressing. Mama recommended the older kids getting the dope other shit might snare. The age gets were big, so it was a teenage boy in a baby both of them draw my mom crazy, and so my role was Donna poor thing, nothing I can. and fire. I would ask for Waterloo and try to lighten the mood about this chaos. In her life, I think that's what started yet in Dyslexia that there too yeah so narrow, safeguarded with mom yeah. Ok, I had torn
a generous. I saw you, you wrote this thing and you actually thought I'm gonna start doing. Cinnamon I'm gonna happen. Carson he's gonna might mean that cuts, but you some new people, got invited to the council. You you follow comedy already. Oh yeah I mean I was there. I was a huge fan of of stand up and- and you know you like their air and my brother at that time. I think he was already on sorry. I live he created Mr Bill, so he was mister. Haynes you're kidding me yeah side, even nowhere near enough. The thing I love when I was younger yeah, so he he was mister hands and he was uncertain light. I think that if he had started at their norm, but he was he was that I wanted one, he was a musician and he was funny any was creative and I was just kind of around. around rotating nothing. Did you think him having a measure of success, so all this is possible, I live in a world where this is possible. I could leave new Orleans and things could happen. No, no
Ok, so I didn't think we're you tell me your name that unit you thought you were likely to die before six Christmas outright. Yeah yeah yeah, I didn't think I was gonna, live to be at an adult right. in here where the suit you oh that and then did you immediately start performing that? No no no, what happened? I think there was no comedy in New Orleans at the time. Man I don't know, I don't know the sequence of of what happened. but then I started doing stand up like I don't care the houses, and you know people ask me I didn't go searching for it. I didn't go where. How can I get on state and then and then I slowly hadn't? You know I was an m c it at a club that opened up out of nowhere, and I started working on material there, and then I started touring you re, introduce people that were coming up yonder and do like five minutes, and then it was ten minutes, and then I built up to where I could go out on the road and do like as an open like fifteen minutes and yeah so, but I
you know it took it took a while and analysed because there was no club like I said so. It was just a few months of just me performing where I could and how do you end up on Carson I was living in San Francisco and I won I actually didn't when Sinbad one I lost by like a tenth of a point. That was a big How do you go right out there I'd? He helped me shot by the way. Oh, yes, he did. He loves quality. Last big baggy alone pans, and here he has a river can't. We were really good friends He won this contest Dodd. That is the San Francisco comedy. It's a big deal and I came in second and people from NBC saw me in, and I really one like I was doing really really well and he won by like it s such a crowd, he's a laser Asia so easily mongers personnel, the area and I was still kind of not confident and anyway,
to end. I ended up in New Orleans cause a lot of people who saw me and said you should move. You should do a set common, some to allay and still doing stand up at the improv in different places and an numb, so the guy that book can. I show saw me at the Improvin book me. Were you scared, yeah? course when you had done that routine. At that point a thousand times yes, but and I you can't say that I guess there's one lines in their like. You know a resume, calling as there are certain things on this earth, and I mean Jesus Christ, not that we're still talking about non economic, about your candidate Jesus Christ on television rights. So I had to remember too, you know there are certain things on this earth that you know. I don't like you know known, Charles and Anna, like you know, you don't even know who sorrow is. It was a singer elaborated south american, single yeah, yeah Latin, like some kind of good, you gucci? Yes, yes, yes, yes, I was an old didn't eighties. Anyway, Yeah I was really nervous and then because an end
time you can imagine. Roseanne was on tonight show and she killed and those like on home now and he didn't collar over and no relief was on Paul abounds. Them was on everybody. I would watch I was just like you know. I really have to do a harrowing, never called over a woman. I was and still it when he retired. I was the only woman called over the first appearance. It was like five men and me so when I did it- and I knew I was doing really really well, but I didn't look over at home, I looked over tax doc in and ethnic manna looked over and then finally, over, he was just kind of like you know, signalling me to come over. He had been doing that for while, but I didn't look at him because I was so she if you look at that appearance. I was like my boy It was really hurt when you go sit on the couch I was. I just wanted to come out and snugly you yeah you're. So little you're. So let alone that moment, yeah yeah, I don't know, if the same for you, but for me it was Letterman. I love Letterman somewhere in the first time I did liniment. I had keep reminding myself like, don't just
staring at him like an ear to ear smile, yeah yeah. This is real you're, really on the showed. How do you feel that way about Carson yeah, of course, yeah yeah yeah was he was Letterman before I mean Letterman felt the same way about Carson. I mean Carson. Yes was the the you know Pinnacle of of as a comedian and then and of course it became Letterman but but Johnny Carson was the guy and he can change your career overnight. Yeah, it's crazy to hear the stories about people going on there, because at that time, what did he We had twenty million viewers are something in saying that doesn't exist. Now I live one in three people are watching it. So let me know, literally overnight there were no, you know they weren't the amount of late night. You gotta watch cow now at eleven thirty five couldn't watch and it was it all went off the air at midnight or something I got. There wasn't anything other than Carson. There was not another late night there weren't competitive shows when their meagre,
to be in show business where you just new they're gonna, have to watch me yeah for better. That's the only thing that was like its changed, so much it's crazy to yank about that there was no competition yeah, it's really kind of a testament. Anyone who succeeding currently be it's crazy. You couldn't me shout something they are successful, I'm suit in overnight. Did you get us a com? Is that what happened after? Oh god, now for the sake of our time. Could you say over the next morning with the aid of a lot, and now I got two years ago I didn't get, I got, everybody else was getting their own sitcoms and I got a line on it. Show. Ah, I think the first show I think I had hello.
ok, but somehow I made it very funny. It was the people kneel and Carol Marlins and they had created the wonder years over and growing pains, and so they did the show- and I was not the leaned I was just in my brain- was like why you taking that, like you know, literally carry, has his own show and you know- TIM, Alan and everybody and other people that I can't remember that don't even have anything right now they had their own show and I just dumb, I just thought their great people, their smart, and maybe they'll see something in me in and develop something for me and sure enough. That was who develop, might sitcom. Oh really but but did the appearance at least get you a a huge bump and how many people would come see you when you tell yard he answered Now I would imagine, after that, like you're, making pretty good money at that point, yeah I was making like five thousand dollars a week, let's really
great, though right when you ensure that wasn't rely on yeah yeah, that was a lot for me. I mean I was talking about money just keeps changing, yeah who's, never the amount that you whatever you think it. But then I started doing you know theatres and you know like larger venues, and it started becoming five thousand dollars for one night in our young. Then it was and then I had a nice and I stopped doing clubs altogether ingested. Theatres, so yeah, then it was and then every time I was on, I thought I was gonna walk round the next day after I did because he calls me of our. So I'm like a star now right. So the next thousand San Diego says plain Improv looking around like waiting for people who run up to now like no one recognize me not when I was like happen is so many people watch they show. How do people not right, you know, then everyone watched it and you know it take. A lot of appearances
people to recognize you, but I assumed I was gonna be mob. The next day also show business, as is the perfect occupation for anyone like myself, who has swings of Total self loathing and then total grandeur. So it's like, oh my god, I'm gonna barely be healthier and more than your mealyback. There are no that's right. I'm a piece of shit. I remember I didn't think I was a piece of shit for ages. I don't go now. I went I oh yeah. That's why I too self medicate, but when you when you your show when you ventures are doing your succumb, was it what you wanted it to be yeah? I thought it was really funny. I thought it was. I got to do physical comedy. It was very different when we first started it but yeah I was a lot of because I was a big fan of Lucille Ball, so I kind of incorporated a lot of, physical comedy into it and yet a deluge droid going to work in doing that, I was, it was gray. I couldn't wait to stop stand up because I had been doing it in all its heart. I think if
one to tour and be in a hotel room, much ass, a woman like I was young. I myself, it's not like. I had friends I could afford to put up with me or, like you know, and I wasn't flying private. I was flying you no commercial. All the time and changing planes and I hate flying. I get anxiety when I flies. I couldn't wait to stop touring. Yeah, there's ways. People do that. I think the male comedians just got Tom trading. It lay that becomes how you I got the alone. You did a bit of an automatic, but yet it seems to be like the male responses that is like. I feel lonely and awkward in this hotel room. All these glad to have our that you may have an apple. You have some kind of medicine. You can write pursue and when you're staying in a condo which sometimes happen with these two strangers. These two male, So if I'm the headliner order the middle I'm with opener in that you know like I was two guys we're all so I'd see then bring home. You know regular far less. Eighty I was ill is gross
like you know. They were scared to sleep in that bad until I was there before, and you know, what's in the rug, that kind of yeah sure anything reliving, would do that its. He added such NGO. Each of you love that guy. It's it's hard were not the best creatures. The cohabited with it may have influenced my decision as well in life. He absolutely makers. You'd have boyfriends, have heard you say that right. You have allowed the area here, but I would say that when I started doing stand up, I was hours because my girlfriend had been killed in a car accident. I was already seeing women but yeah. I had boyfriends all I'll wait, do the end of high school. I I did and I think you are largely spared when we get grosses, which is as we get older ouses describing earlier, like the Throat Clarion all the things I do that, like my grandpa dead and my dad did, I now do in front a curse. The knife- and I don't need you to hear myself an occasional I'll, go. Jennifer Ivan like two minutes and I'll look at her and I'll say: God bless you that you can stay and next year
Yet the sank, yeah yeah we just get worse and worse and worse ashamed yeah. You may be right. before the road you chose greatly. I made the right decision. I don't really know it as well as I should, but your show ended in an ended. Why? Because I came out ok, and in the network said okay. Well, that's a different showered that now that your public persona such This is a long, long story, but but they really didn't want me to come out just so you know I don't even want the juicy details. I mostly want to know how you doubt with the heartbreak of that whole situation. That's what a mild interests are not trying to get any juicy details of who was a motherfucker. I know I know I know, but it's like they didn't We have come out. I wanted to come out my they kept saying you know, I said it lids my life and I want to come out. I want the character to come out, it's the timing and they I said I'm would lose the career like you can just put another show.
On its my show to lose your so even that wasn't my shoulders with, but they and they. Finally, Let me come out and then and they, they didn't really, and it was a huge success. The night of it was huge, was LE braided? It was you know forty five million people that watched him and then they just stopped promoting it cause everybody was scared, ABC Disney, didn't wanna because of their sponsors. having a hard time we were losing sponsors, so they just act like we're, we're just letting it glide we're not going to touch it. So I d had no more advertising. I got no more on promotion, I got so it just you know, so they cancel it. So and during that time, because as there was so much talk about it. Everyone was just sick of it and even though I only done the cover of time magazine a prime time Special Diane, Sawyer and Oprah, those are the only three places I talked people were reporting on report.
Reports in Romania and even Elton John said, shut up already, know you're gay be funny and I'd never met him and his on what kind of support is that from the central Asia, but everybody assumed I was just non stop talking about it. till I was just it hurt my feelings I was making. I was getting jokes made at my expense on every late, show people were making fun of me, so I was really depressed and because of that and because the show was cancelled, I look- I was looked at as a failure in this business, so no one would touch me so I had no agent. I had no possibility of a job had nothing in other men and I didn't have money saved. I wasn't making that much on my sick, comma, wasn't making what Cherry Seinfeld made or rather timid Elinor. You know I was making drew yet heard you care as hell. He made a lot of arab yeah and I I didn't make that might so. I didn't have money saved stay with us for more on your expert after this message.
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Three years I didn't work. I thought I'm not gonna work again. Unless I do stand, You know I mean that I got to do stand up so I wrote the beginning, which was my HBO. I thought well. At least I can do stand up. That's what I do and I didn't want to do it because I was done with it, but I wrote the beginning because it was beginning again in its how I began so I wrote the big. ending and I went on tour and awe and it was people still loved you. It was gay people still love me, I had very few straight people showing up to those cause. They, they assumed I was just doing gay comedy, so it was really hard for me to get a crowd again That's where I've been guilty of this its hypocritical in its paradoxical I've thought when I found out some owes gay. I thought go out. Well, I'm am I going to build a believed them in a role. Were there in love with someone of the opposite sex. Is that gonna get in the way, my knowledge of the mingott? Why thinking these scenes? Oh? But they don't really like that. It wasn't it
probably watching like two straight dude play gay guys and I'm totally invested and I believe they loved each other. Where I realise this is so fuckin, hypocritical and but I was susceptible dinner, for whatever reason I don't know, why is like you you think somehow that you're not going to be other buying this fairytale cause. You know too much about the person well yeah, but you're, just talking about like being at home. Watching a movie or going to a theatre like these are people letter scared to stand in line. Go and people gonna think I'm gay if I'm he like. So I got you so I was like, and so I ended up making a joke about it. In my special, like that, we're all here for a right, the same reason we're gay and run, and I was like even now the straight before life did. I think, I'm game. I want you and I do this whole thing you thought about it. I haven't thought about it like site that this effort of because it really was- I was kind of looked at- is the new leader and I didn't want to be a leader and I wanna be political and I didn't want to be an activist. I just wanted to be
from a single, a secret, and that's all I want it. So it was really hard to go out onto our again and see they only had and Sometimes like really at you know the gay coming He is like a really difficult like line to walk like some people thought you're, not gay enough, you're not doing enough for our community and and there are so many people who have done more in a site. I didn't say I was your leader, nine didn't say I've. I had a movie and theirs as much diversity in the gay community as there is in any community tourism. You there's this assumption that you guys are somehow on the same page about something but you're right, you're, just all unite people that, but that's what I'm saying, but there are a lot of like really militant gay people about get really angry. If you're not like just and it's like, I don't. I just want to be a comedian. Just happened to be gay and I just in of course I'm gonna. U know speak up and I think I'm doing it just by being a you know. Physical presence of you know we're, hopefully a representation not of the entire gay community but of
body at home. Go and oh there's someone who's gaze. Anyway, it was tough, because there are a lot of gay people that thought I and being in an active and often and political enough and gay enough, and then you know, if I had, then the straight people are like you re into gay and if I lose manual labor yeah like how do we have the item on the right amount of gay? For me it is working. I found it to be a real european. So anyway, it was a really. It was really tough time so was. Was there but was there are some relief accompanying the depression of having the show go away and all that is. Is the joy of having the secret out that quantifiable? Do you feel that you feel like? Ah, this is a big burden released. Of course you are But then you also dealing with some something. That's very hard to deal with, which is this lol in your career. There was a high and it was celebrated, and then it was a complete, often low, and then you know so it was. It was an arena
never thought I'd even be successful enough to have a sit calm in the top ten. So to me, I had reached the pinnacle of success. Ryan. Then I get you know the cover of Time magazine cause, I'm the first knew no person to be you don't know there's a normal, but because Manas sitcom like I did you know so, there's all this attention on me for that. So that gets a lot of attention. So I'm thinking you know, that's the pinnacle and everything is just now taken away from now. How do I start over on a millions of that level? I can relate to having been honest about mean molested in interviews and then that always becomes a very big story right and then I always I get this fear people thing promoting this right where I was as may be being honest in the moment when someone asked me: what's all in this bag of tricks that led the x y rosy and it isn't, it
so tricky, because I remember being young and seen certain people say stuff in magazines, and then I thought all that's weird your bragging about that. You know and I come from that place in it in its prevented me from doing things. No one. I do them. I just eventually. I have to go up who gives fuck. If someone thinks I'm trying to promote that I can only just be honest about my own story and then just whatever. If people think I'm trying to get attention for this a weird way to get attention, but oh okay, I just going to have to live with that right, so I mean understand somewhat. I feel like yeah, that weird feeling of light I'm not promoting, I'm just being honest rise differ yeah. You just have to just trust that you know. There's gonna be haters out there. Now you have a cheap farmers success than you thought you were going to write. Has it healed any emotional stuff? For you? Oh yeah, I mean I let go. Above all that a long time ago it here I held a hunted like bitter
anger for a little while, but you know I'm really grateful for it now. I'm I'm actually really grateful for it. I think it's. I can't believe that I was able to achieve what I achieved lose at all and then get to this point in my life at sixty years old like to startle. at forty five. Nowhere start no, no, no body start over forty five in this business, much as a woman, and so I'm really grateful that I had that experience it made me a stronger person. Did you have a mentor during that time or anyone whose advice you are seeking inner? Now, a lot of people reached out to me like, madam reached out to me in upper reached to me. It is hard for you to ask for help or guidance, oh it's just that I wasn't like in the day. It'll people that literally Meda, like Madonna literally made a phone call to me like I did ya, know her and she reached out and said you know you. You are brave and trust that that's gonna come back to
to be the best thing that ever happened yet, and certainly there is probably no one. I had a u that navigated, this all beautifully that you could call up. You know I think every lesbian was looking at me like mere that's like they were just like. Their heads were what's gonna happen and then they all went back in their holes like never mind I mean I know, portion is said that to me, like people really were watching like shit, I come now. Let's see how this was the litmus test. Yeah you recommended in the coal Mysel yeah it was. It was definitely something that was like I said and when it was really celebrate and I think a lot of people like oh and then it took a while for other people too, to decide to do that. I have to send people. Tell you and me if all the time that they must thank you, for all that yeah, that's the one thing when it when it first started happening because I was closeted. I wasn't part of any kind of you know Gay organization like glad or or the travel project or anything I was not a part of the gay world, and so when I came out
I got letters from like kids that were literally ought to commit suicide and I say their lives, and, and so when I saw the impact and then Matthew Shepherd was was killed right after I came out, and I went to the steps of Washington and spoke out and basically in tears was saying. This is why I did what I did to hope that this would change the world. I mean outlasts. It was stupid, naive of me to think that I could actually make that kind of impact in the world just by coming out, but when Matthew Shepherd was killed, it it broke. My heart, yeah cause I just thought this is gonna. Stop now, and people have as an example, and so I will I learned a lot about. You know how much impact, having a presence you know out there in and being and instead of saying my career in my money as more important, I realise that it actually making a difference in the world and unjust being honest about who you are, whether its if you are molested or whether it's that you're gay or what whatever it
as because whatever your secret is there's lots of other people out there that had the other seat. That same, well yeah. I not that that's why I'm so attracted to you is that I don't think it's helpful for people to see other people some crazy skill set there never gonna have, but what I think is super helpful ago, like Oh, I have the same secret, I'm carrying the same shame. I really like that person I'm not. I must not be as bad as I think I am because I know they're not elected. I think that so helpful to people absolutely, and I think that you feel better about yourself that you're, actually you know I. I know that I am not just a famous person, I'm someone who's actually making a difference in the world for allotted different people, and I'm really proud that I'm openly gay and I get to talk about and say the word wife. I mean that the fact that that was never talked about on television, but that its becoming part of the vernacular that someone can hear. Why
if an and that there is at least its digesting? You know slowly into society and and that I can now talk about my my amazing incredible life with another, a man is, is, I think, doing something. It's pretty and growth when you took on show. Did you feel like the stakes were super high, like, oh god, if this doesn't work now what I've done a sick come up. I've done it talks, you did you feel that pressure of the south african work I may have I don't. I dont really remember that pressure. I remember just think it. It was gonna, be fun and I had high hopes for it. well. I think the amazing thing that you ve done with the show is this
thing I loved about your stand up when I was young was it's in a box. We all recognise which is daytime talk show, but it is a hundred percent you if you want to be talking about animals, you do it. If you want to talk about any kind of social issue, you make room to do that and you don't seem to worry about what the outcome of that's gonna. Be you you somehow stay very very true too who you are, and I think that is an incredible accomplishment for someone who is back on exactly what they are and for it to work out in its really the impressive and I really I am glad that I know you and our friends in the same way that you thanks we're doing this. I love you, I love you too will get someday. Ok, will we get a lot, but now we don't make out really a money will have to be a mega. Does a lot longer longer Keziah like one would be were alike? Are they gonna? Stop this everything? That's gonna, You say that now, but you know
other things ahead of us, I may relapse. We may do ecstasy together, some point down it yeah, it's very unlikely, but just there is a world in which that could happen I don't want to end this on a bad because it was no use. I can always cut about me. I'm gonna, that's gonna happen. I love you stay tuned. If you'd like to hear my good friend and producer Monica peasant point out, the many errors in the park has just heard Monica? This was a short episode. So I like to think that you're you're lifting was like this. We was it unless, as only is only a few things- ok and some of those just clarification. then not even someone was wrong regions that you were right. Why are they not least what's good good on tax about how she started out as an m c and a club in New Orleans, and that is Clyde's comedy club, o decline. I'd comedy club as its door out,
We remember yeah, that's a hard thing to remember now and then you are talking about Sinbad, clothing and you're, just referendum as big baggy pants, but they have a name heroin pan. Oh yeah, you're. You are a lot of Europeans, which is super fitting for some of the name Sinbad I had to enjoy did not have a choice. He could never worn overalls men Sinbad, although he pike and uphold them, He probably had harem overalls super billowy at the bottom tied on TAT bottle outcome. First you did, I tell you. I didn't have time to tell the story because it was such a short interviewing. I knew it, but I was shooting a movie. I can't even explain how deep in the valley I was in if you're, not from LOS Angeles. You know that the further away from the centre you go uses deeper, deeper, deeper valley in the concentration obviously of movie stars out. In that the deep recesses of the valley. They fall off pretty dramatically and we were shooting this movie at a carpet store
that we had bought out the afternoon for they shut down in sin. add showed up while we are shooting- and he was not happy that his carpets fish it was one of the weirder celebrity signs I've ever had, because I just couldn't understand why Sinbad a shopping for carpet beat what was he shopping for carpet their interest, and he I'm sure he had come- become accustomed to the star treatment and he couldn't believe they weren't and open up the carpet store for him may Let me also say I may be failing in the blanks there. He may have taken it well. It appeared from my point of view that he he was. He was there for a while long after he learned that it was shut down for the day it was very interesting and he wasn't dressed as loudly as I would have liked him to have been our now. It's not like. I saw huge burst of color walk through the door then looked and it was in bad. It was more a notice, it was Sinbad and then there was no real accoutrements to back up the persona. Sir area, Burma
gotta help I'm right that was in man. Are you are you? Is this could this be defamation of character and who have been accused of shopping for carpet deep, deep valley in the middle of the afternoon? I like it because it shows that we on the carpet even send bad needs carpet right while he spoke again leaving the needs of flying magic carpet, maybe use to try. fashion. His own whatever ok, what else. Ok Ellen brought up char out and you said she was South American and she said she was American. I just want to clarify she's from Spain, ok, so neither neither right other. If she said Latina did she say latina now and I think that may arise as a Spaniard, I just want to put into contact Ellen getting the knot of approval from Johnny Carson, because there are so many huge comedians who did not
I invited to the cow yeah like Gary Seinfeld, unimaginable right guys. I dont year old, Seinfeld, one of the most accomplished comedians in the history of the art form he had not yet called over here. Harry now really quick. Do you think that discuss Carson was an anti semite weight? You started terrible rumour. Ok, I'm trying to see no humans. We talked about this. You know we try to make sense of things after the fact, when things that we want Renato ACT and yes, uncomfortable with things not having made sense. So when I hear Gerald Seinfeld was not invited to the couch, I think there has to be an explanation, as it sure is fucking that he wasn't funny. She's. So I go straight: it Carson was an anti semite which of course, is not true at all to all these comedians. When they go on are at last get a year com deal, some people don't know them yet, but then often the next day, people with no they're gonna get you
million people are watching represent. One of the facts you're gonna bring up is, I think, I'd took a stand up his ass so anyway, yet gentle soft, when I was in it, oh Jim carried again bite it over here, while so, maybe that he hated our people yeah, we gotta figures hall, we got explain these anomalies were maybe off night. You at this the other thing at noon, putting all your eggs in this one person little finger waving you over yeah yeah, envy bloated. He could have diarrhoea that J and he wasn't gonna fuck off that's days, angle with his business fact. Also, you know some people's comedy really lends itself well, two or three minutes didn't give you any time, which is almost shocking. That Ellen's went so well, because she has a very paste casual delayed, yeah or Chapelle. I think of Chapelle trying to go on a talk, show and be funny in three minutes. It's not you mean he needs a kind of like yeah bring you in. It was world for a little while, before you a stir,
are in your ass yeah. Ok! So here that you said listen had twenty million viewers. I was really out on a limb Mama one and then he said why do people were watching at which wouldn't be twenty million right? Exactly is there there were two hundred and fifty six million people in the? U S and ninety nine, around eighty four million, so it would have been about one in thirteen people, ok, but do even now. Maybe we're really watching them. The final weeks His run in ninety two average nineteen point for three million mine. I know that's the final weeks, so we can. We can assume that that was inflated. I tried the Rhine, average numbers macro economy, but I should have on a box office motor, guess. I dont Marianna Mary TV by the numbers. That's another website like go to check up on things. tv Mile dollars. Are you guys we're talking about how much other comedians we're getting paid for their shows around that time? and you said you'd said like oh drew, carry made along
on his youngest network, should carry shall in. I had heard two hundred fifty million. Did I say that out loud I don't know but a court, to my research now I feel nervous. said seven hundred and fifty thousand per episode. Well, but that that's not any remind those guys made the way a tv contract works right. He was getting seven hundred DE grand shop and found the many was getting a residual and they re aired. But way more importantly, as he owned a significant percentage of that show and when it got sold in this indication, for example, the seventy show which I dont think was as big as the drew carry show their first cycle of syndicates. She went for like seven hundred and eighty million dollars, the Seinfeld catalogues gone for billions of dollars. That's how Jerry Seinfeld ended up with yeah, whatever he's rumoured to have a higher million or whatever so yeah I only meant that drew carry ended up with two fifty when they sold his show or whatever you said tv, mail
I have always heard that he muttered fifty million. I don't think I said that on aspects, but not from his fee for acting but from his ownership. Alas, it was packard that fifty thousand an episode is fuckin money. Yeah Noah makes anything like that. No, they showed up. Ok, that's all right? Well, did you like sitting with her? You will we on the way there we were discussing the fact that your regularly around a lot of famous people and that and I'm not a famous person and you're, not a famous venison right. You have been in movies, but whatever in that you're. Never really, I'm not stars you're, not a star at all, but then when we left the eager, I felt a little nervous, I'm a gouty I yet it was we. We went yeah, we had just been talking about it and I said it's so weird cause. I'm not I'm not nervous around anyone any more, I'm not starstruck. I don't think there's any one I could meet now that I would, besides, maybe Brok, Obama being the only excluded.
Your politics over this part. I love him. Sir. Hundreds of fewer yeah was just noting that and then we got there not we were sitting we or we are awaiting a little bit as as you are setting out old in the term, shewn yeah she's a very busy lady, as you said, and we had such a short window and I started to get arrest that she was gonna, be in our presence, and then I just had to throw out my whole my whole thesis from really do you think any of it had to do with the fact that she's such a powerful woman that being in the presence of some one that has accomplished so much as a woman meeting. That was up aspect of it. That's interesting! Maybe next I think like
I think part of operas power is not just that she was that success for that she made a really nice, but that she did it as a black female there's, something that is just what droopingly impressive about that. That's yes, I mean yeah, it's overcoming much more aids, but I don't think that's registering for me as much as she's a lesbian females, yeah again that that still not, I feel I feel I owe you understand. I just said that word out loud and I felt like, I must also say anymore, to still say: lesbian yeah, ok, who I think I just felt we're gonna about you know. Sometimes you know like I feel, like my grandparents, We are, like my grandmother, thinks she's been very respectful when she said summons colored, like Cosette their herd childhood. That was as good as you could do. Right too. She thinks she's being really respectful and is rough when you're at a restaurant and she's talking about the colored people
in our neighbourhood or whatever, and I just wanna go like eyes. She really thinks she's doing it, the rising african american Raw yeah yeah. I think it's, ok, they each is another matter. I think she said it, but this is we are thing to say, maybe it's not true, but when you meet Man, in your woman, there's more involved than just like taking them in at face value. There's, like other things, I come into play when your meeting man we were, you're tract of them ever thing to say why I don't know you and me I was annoyed job as appropriate- is all subconscious either that none of us are not thinking about twenty four seven fucking job yeah. One thing we're here: it is eat, but has run intentional. I think it's! It's not like you meet someone. You think Emma attracted it's just as there is a subconscious thing happening value waiting a little bit more away, while in a weird sense now that you're saying that does put a little,
the power in your lap cause you're like what I'm making a decision now, whether I'm attracted this person or not. Yet you are you at that moment, our kind of in the driver's seat yeah. So wicked right size their absolute power that when you meet Ellen, that's not there, so it is you're just confronted with just her at face value and yeah and her power and all of her skills and so little more intimidating, yeah, absolutely so. I've been kind of wanting to do this for a while and I'm gonna attempt to do it off the cuff, because I think in this pod cas we were gonna have time on this one because she was short. I often reference the twelve step program that I'm a part of, and I say that I do think there are some elements in that programme that could be very useful to all people, alcoholic or not and let me also say this sometimes you'll hear me reluctantly say a and I prefer to call it a twelve set programme, and that is because, in the principles of the programme we are supposed to remain anonymous at the level of press and media, and I have
broken that in I've made a very soon. You know a well thought out or not, but I put a lot of time into whether or not I would break my own. It anonymity publicly. I ultimately lean towards the fact that I think more good can be done than harm, if I'm honest about it, and someone might think you know that,
I'm someone they they might want emulate, and then they might find some writing. So you know I've I've pissed off, probably lotta people, nay, by by talking about it. The more important reason that I dont generally say a specifically ask as I may relapse I've been sobered thirteen years, but I just as likely to relapse tomorrow. Maybe, as I was on day fifteen of this, and so I do not want to be the face of acres of it. Fair. If I fail at my sobriety, it is not a failure of aid. Is failure of me olive stopped working it the way it needs to be worked. So I just want to be very clear about. I am hesitant to talk about so much as I don't want to be the poster child and I dont want if I fail for it to be a mark against day with all that said, I went away, but my interpretation of the force that because I feel like it, is the most break through kind of thought process, its change, my life tremendously
it's a really clever in the way its constructive, because it gets you to do something that you probably wouldn't be able to do if, if construct in any other way, for the very first thing that they ask you to do is just make a list of people that your resentful towards rang you might say I hate MRS Glenn DE. She was my third grade teacher. She always put me in the back of the class blah blah blah blah blah right. So MRS Glenda is on the list. Then you might have an ex boyfriend unless you might have someone you work with you know this is this list can vary, have gone over many guys for steps with them. You know some people, but fifteen people on this list. As some people have a hundred and fifty people, it doesn't really matter you do you want to get at least in, I think round, twenty people on this list and throughout your whole lifetime. So just a list of people, your resentful towards or angrier. So that's on the left column and then you make another column, and you say so Jerry I resent Jerry. What what is it you resent about Jerry, so the next column is he's always trying to get me fired me. So
telling my boss, if I'm laid- or I didn't turn in something right. So that's easy to answer. Why the? Why do I hate Jerry? Well, here's wisely training at me fire and then in the third column, you're gonna say what fear of yours is being triggered by this. So if Jerry's always trying to get me fired, will that threatens my sense of economic security right? So I will write down my fear of economic insecurity and then ultimately, what you could then think about is well if I'm never lay. There is really nothing for Jared. Tell my boss right. So I do play a role in this minimally. If I dont turning my shit late, there's nothing to report on me, so I do play a role in this that me hating Jerry on part of this but way. More importantly- and I encourage anyone detritus if you make a list of thirty people are a hundred and twenty people or whatever you will start to see so quickly that all these people you're upset with trigger the same three fears over and over and over and over again. So for me I have a huge fear of economic insecurity, growing up kind of port beginning. So there is a lot of people on my list that they just triggered the same fear over and over again, and then I have a fear of my status, I'm so worried about this person was trying to make me look stupid or make me look less than or whatever I manage Mary. Could she said this or that, so I have a big fear of that. I won't be high enough status or that I am less than, and then I have of fear that people think I'm stupid. I've talked about that on here in that comes from being dyslexic or whatever, and so, when I am done with this whole force that list. I now have a sense of these three fears that are basically running my life, because I am there's people I hate because of these fears. I'm certainly doing a lot of my character. Defects are probably to support this fear. I have, and now I have a road map of what to attack, as if I dont have any fears, I'm not gonna may resentments and you re
we can't be triggered by people that aren't triggering fears of yours, the example I always like to give, as you could put a hundred people in a room put me on a stage in every one of them could be shouting tax you're too short, you're, too short, your embarrassingly small you're, just a midget you're. So embarrassingly short, I could withstand that for ten hours and it would always be comical to me because I know one six, two or three I have no fear of being short and it just will have no effect on me. But if you but be in a room with just one person who saying your ego maniacal at times in our system. Can you talk too much and you need everyone's approval? That's gonna get on my nerves, right, quick, because those are we all character, for, as I have an eye act, those ways to try to L a late, my status because I have a fear status or to overcome this- that people think I'm stupid again. If I can get my arms around the things, I'm afraid of it's incredible, much downstream business it takes care of, and there are steps you can take to confront
her fears if I have a fear of economic security than I should do, some real financial planning, and I should really crunch the numbers and find out what it takes me to stay alive for a year or support my kids and I should have a real number, not one that I've I just never feel safe. You know I should really put some effort into going, what what's worth being afraid of and what's not, and then you know my status, a thing I like to do to confront that fear. Minors is to just every time. I start comparing myself to someone else like an alarm in my head. Oh go off going here, we go this. Is you you're always gonna feel worse when you compare yourself, somebody and you're not going to feel like your higher status at the end of this, in
you're really only and entitled to compare yourself to an older version of yourself. A previous version is really are. Only only goal. Is to make yourself better and that something I can do. I can also help other people who need my help, because when I'm engaged in that activity, I kind of stop thinking about status, and I start recognising the true or more meaningful things about being a human on this planet. But always that's it
I thought I throw up this way. You don't have to go, become an alcoholic. Just a joint aid learn how to do a forced out, but it is fine specially in a relationship. If you start talking about a topic in, you feel your heart rate, accelerating in your blood pressure, rising it's a good time to go home. I met a fears being triggered and I know what fears I have so, which one of these fears as being triggered my fear of abandonment. My fear of you know this or that its very helpful when you start to fight with a love. One to take fifteen minutes go under room in really get honest about what fears being triggered in recognise that this is something from childhood, and it's not real in the moment right now and then go out and tell your love one. You know but when you said that it really triggered my fear of abandonment and that's what I'm ex actually fearing, I don't care. If you want a trip to Spain, I just that I felt
that way, and then your love, one could tell you, I will never abandon you in that may solve everything self, that's my two cents on that, and maybe I'll tell some other steps if that was of use or value to any one else. I'm glad you share that. I really am his. I feel like getting to know you over the past couple years has really changed the way. I think about those things, because you talk that's a laugh and yeah. We ve had a fine kind of like going through things if their hot button topics on the moment. What kind of dissected minutes one right here and it's very helpful. I love you