Ethan Kross (Chatter) is an experimental psychologist, neuroscientist and writer, who specializes in emotion regulation. Ethan joins the Armchair Expert to discuss the usefulness of your inner voice and how to harness it. Ethan explains how important context is when triggering emotions, how negative emotions are just as vital as positive ones, and the ways language can shape our emotional experiences. Ethan discusses how having the ability to feel the way we want all the time could be problematic and tips on how to be in the past and the future without being sucked in the chatter. In the fact check, Dax & Monica discuss the Royals.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome welcome argon, armchair expert experts on expert, I'm not Dan Shepherd them join by Doktor, Monica Pad man, s Doktor, Monica Pad man. The MA am the pad the fat man. I don't you feel comfortable, saying this doctor about myself, hadn't even sound right didn't feel right. I hated it. You gotta alone on this, actor. So maybe you could you be that doctor doktor d, is that dog? That's true reward. You wanna be a diary this doctor that tax they doktor US doctor I need a moment ago. Doctors dark,
oh daggers, Doktor Carr joined by Monica MAO's, this doctors doktor, while there are even a lotta levels, Ethan crosses our guests day. Anything is an experimental psychologists, a neural scientists in a writer who specializes in emotion, regulation. Do you know this is a day you think, I'm pretty sure he's a doctor all and must be more say doctor, can cross the wars and say well, but no, it doesn't bullets a worst case scenario. We call someone a doctor, that's not they'll, never sue over that or be offended. That's true, but were about the facts. I was in a whole rabbit hole in my headline embed two nights ago with this doctor thing I decided I don't like that. You have to call doctors doktor like when you just talking to them like MIKE you gotta, see say doctor so because I'm
make my case a year? Have your support? You got that right. What do you mean medical doctors all the people are always say. Like Doktor Smith Doctor, you no phone call for doktor, whoever just when you are you a doctor you're supposed to call them doktor, whatever right. Yeah! I don't like it. You can tell you why be yeah, ok still weird status, acknowledgement, and albeit doc, there is a very noble people, but there are also many other occupations that are noble and you would never say like Roofer John, or lawyer MIKE so there's this status thing say.
You just don't say it about any other occupations. So I am a little sorry and of even bring that up on your cause. Your worthy of the title, if there's cover that that Acta, ok Doktor Ethan Cross, is an experimental psychologists, Neuro scientists and writer who specializes in emotion regulation is a we call new book called shattered the voice in our head. Why it matters in how to harness it. Now we ll love this one, because we have the loudest fucking Ras, ignoring on upstairs here there at all times. Yes, I view some other techniques. I really like I'm it's really worth trying. Yes, thank goodness, there's some tools. You feel powerless over that racket or-
Chatter, as Doktor Ethan would say so. Please enjoy Doktor Ethan Cross. We are supported by better help if you're having trouble, meeting your goals or difficulty with relationships or trouble, sleeping or you're feeling stressed or depressed better help is available. Better help offers online professional councillors who can listen and help simply fill out a questionnaire to assess your needs and better elbow match you with your own licence, professional therapists. You can start communicating in under forty eight hours. It's not a crisis line, it's not self help. It is secure online, professional counselling and better help. Councillors have a broad range of expertise which may not be available in your area. You can log in to your account any time and send unlimited messages to your counselor. You'll, get timely and thoughtful responses. Plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions and everything you share is confidential. You won't ever have to sit in an awkward waiting room again, it's more affordable than traditional offline counselling and financial aid is available. In fact, so many people have been using better help their recruiting additional councillors and all fifty states. This podcast sponsored by better help in armchairs get ten percent off their first month at better help. Dotcom Slash Dax visit better help. H e lp dotcom Slash Dax, enjoying the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced, better help, professional he's, and then I bet Doktor Ethan Cross can see what's happening here,
What happened here? Godson Jordan, there that wall about what are these Jordan's make you think of it made me think of my childhood in Brooklyn Ok! Well, that's very fair, but they're! U of em colors! Oh, let me get it back up here. Ok, very nice or we'll go blue family. I'm fine! Milford Michigan twenty miles up? U S! Twenty three firm! You will you never know. Sometimes people had the audacity to like the green, those green color yeah my sister went there. I mean I should be sympathetic to it. Yes to the two of you, so we ve got Michigan and then also Atlanta. My wife is from Atlanta, so this is like a whole family, one per cent De Springs. Sandy springs from Duluth, ok, Do you know? Sandy's rang. Yeah, of course, is how close to you was it's not too far. I would say pilot fortyish minutes
you want to the doktor about the Georgia Red Clay. Well, if you months now Dac deprecated, this morning and said it was resemble Georgia, red Clay, I'm so sorry you had to hear a hive. Gotta be a good ice rank area. There is little enabling undeniably Georgia Redcliff, listen, I two young daughters and they love the dooms. So you want to go there we can arrive at work, is how old are your daughter's? They ten insects, ok, Six and seven saw weren't a similar world, similar world and you're from Brooklyn. How do you feel about raising these girls and aunt arbour? Are you excited about it or do you feel like their missing out on the city experience? I love it. I grew up in Brooklyn I like to tell people terrible
joke here before was cool, but I really mean that when I grew up there, it was like now right pleasant place to live. I worked my butt off in school to leave and never come back and sound. It gives me great delight that Daughters can in a walk to school, I'll just hang out outside. I never had that kind of experience. So so I love it. Yeah Ann Arbor, if you're gonna be a Michigan. It's in the top three I'd say areas: you'd want to be traversed city is pretty darn nice to live. I think as well. Oh yeah. I often think if you have an was in ever city with the water is perfect in Austria is pretty clear. But it would be an even nicer, no one, things, so I tell people like the peninsula. It's like their vineyards up there. You feel like you're in France I mean it's beautiful and you have people, Look at me, like I'm out of my mind, like you, draw the cool idea in Michigan. How you know you ve lost touch with reality, but but you could back, up on that right. It's pretty amazing was so good
because we kidnapped her and we forced her to vacation on Lake Michigan to some years ago. Now we brought we brought up Californians and they kept going like so confused. This is not the ocean ill, I'm so confused It was a lake, it was not a lake. It was an ocean we're all in a late ass. It s remarkable yeah, it's a little little secret solely. We know it would be nice if they were better sushi and ensure more restaurants or beef would be fun, but otherwise we're pretty happier now we're gonna venture. We talk about one of our favorite topics, which is the racket in our heads. I guess that's what we say we come were fond of I'm at the racket but we're going to get into that internal monologue, we all do or the dialogue of the invoice. But before we do, I guess I'm curious. Do you have theories and why you were interested in psychology to begin with? You started at PAN as a no
Brad and then Colombia Phd. What was it about psychology that interested you also? My story goes way back to that. You have three years old because I had a dream who is an unconventional dad? it was not an academic use, a salesman and from a time. I was three he would be. Sickly. Whenever something bad happened, he would encourage me to go inside. Tommy go inside, find the Colonel Colonel early talking about, embodies the greener get too part of the matter, and so he basically encouraging from the time I was really young to interest back when the thing that happened and listening to my dad and his lesson serve me well fur much of my childhood and adolescence. When I ask my crush in high school and she said no, I introspective I moved on it and get stock and I figured it out so forth and so on, and so so I was,
really good at managing myself ass was that this was a tool I relied on. Then I got to pan. Can I borrow really glad yeah, please, just because I had a car salesman. Dad I'm so now jealous, because my father was like, if you are, let's say the crush, if then go your way. You try to sleep. But their best friend. That would have been my dad's advice. Ass. You know, by something or could do something black ass? She? So I'm a little jealous added value Garza allotted buys. Well, you know it's all a matter of perspective. What you get for your fifth birthday from your dad. Oh no! No! I know what you're Daggett you when you're five, you got me a mantra,
get the fuck out of here. He took me to transcend dental meditation centre in New York City and you I was hoping for a bicycle or that x transformer that didn't happen and sell. My bodies are hanging out and I'm learning about meditation in the name of the worst part is you're not allowed to share your mantra with anyone. I and you found, cannot tell your buddies what you got. You can only a vague. It speaks to health. Format that experience was I still. I don't think I've ever told someone what my mantra is, even though its it's silly. What I like impractical I think I have to tell my wife. First I've been trying to get everyone to tell me. They're mine tries for years in David Walton tell us who is he dead? He does me the most here he cause he gets suspicious that everyone has the same one because he found out. He and his body were given Zing won him in and they have tried to go to a third
and he wouldn't tell him- and I said, look here's what I'll do you tell me yours and if it's the same I'll admit it is, and thank God it wasn't desire to get a little suspicious that it's all the same Montrose well say. I mean he was an inn sting character. My dad or forced him to be that way in these things don't happen on their own. Do they my dad, not a college grad but was always fascinated by east, philosophy and the Beatles and that whole Tom yeah movement back in the Sixtys and Seventys and so to his credit, thing. I really am really grateful for like he would talk to me like it was an adult from the time. I was a little kid and now really Sometimes I would prefer to talk about like the Yankees yeah, gee, I Joe, but but I mean those
early conversations really did leave their mark? So it's an interesting upbringing. Okay, great, I was going to say this to the end, because we both have daughters but I'm going to say right now, cuz, it's so appropriate, which is yeah. So I talked to my kids like they're my age like their peers, and I sometimes wonder, like I guess, I'm trying to understand the limits of their capacity. I'm trying at all times to convey what a forced step is in a you know: it's like your mad at Joe. Why you met a jolly tries to get me fired. You know. How does that back to you all and affects my essential security, this that another thing and what role do I play in that well by weren't late I would have nothing to say to my boss, so you know all this get them no work through their resentments. I'm trying to help them see that most of their feelings are really coming from a fear that they would be helpful to identify and then I'm confronted with the idea that, like this is all going over, their heads is a waste of their time. Is this? Is this the
a course of action. So how do you do with your daughter's first? I think it's a waste of time. I think it's great there's some theories, there that suggest that you want to push kids always have them reaching for a little bit more outside their comfort zone? By way of analogy me, when I was on the wrestling team, I always used to wrestle in practice with the guy who was to wait classes above me, and so I often think about talking to me kids, the same way right. So I realize that now, when I talk mechanisms and the pre frontal court tax they may not really may not sink in, but the more we talk about it, the more they serve. Eyes me, I mean you know, and so I do enjoy going for walks in just kind of sharing. What's going on in my world and sometimes
I get no at times they say this is, as my youngest daughter too, is borrowing daddy, ok, so years, specialization in psychology is emotion, regulation, which is something that I am deeply. Interested in fascinated by him, I gotta say. Monica have many many debates is a great topic for Monica my I because and I'm wrong often want me to start by saying I'm wrong after that in general, I have kind of a blanket view, she is- The world is kind of a nerd inasmuch as feels like it's not, it is just constant right. So traffic is a reality bosses are real. All this stuff is a reality. That is the variable in the equation. That is unchangeable, so I am left with the only variable in the equation. I have any say over is myself, so I strive to not react Two things are or ought to be, a slave to these things are get emotional all the time and sometimes are
Bates are about. You know someone can't really make you feel bad like you can allow someone to make you feel about Europe and by the it has been pointed out that I'm wrong. We are watching this great documentary. I hope you watched it about Keith Harry the vow and it can be taken to an extreme right where you never ever, I d say someone's attack you our, which of course they are. So I think in the EC dream, but just in general, I do think we have maybe more control than we think we have over how we feel and respond to things. What's cunning your blankets thought about that guy, I think. We have enormous control over how we react to the world and I think, step one is simply being aware of the fact that, You can change the way. You think to change the way you feel I think that's again. Changing idea for a lot of people. I mean that something that I talk to my kids about quite a bit like when my daughter's having too, pretensions, particularly the older one, not that shit
as more temper tantrums. If she heard me say that I've been thinking about it, she's at a point where I doctor and explain like you, feel it way. What if we thought about a differently? What, if we re framed it and those kinds of re framing, That's a lot of what we do in our lab like when we get really up there are things we tend to zoom in super super. Narrowly, I'm a problem at hand to the inclusion have everything else right words out in oh my god, what if I don't know what I'm gonna do, can you believe he said that and we consume and when we zoom out, we get more perspective and that can often be really really useful. Yet, and I dont implicit lead is denial of feelings. I can sometimes I hear a reaction to my point of view is being like I'm asking people to deny how they feel when, in fact, I think I'm more going like go out and feel that, like your allotted sperience it and feel it, and then I think it's time to work through it mentally anyway,
you're describing. I hope it's not wrong, because it is, Twenty years of what I do is towards that idea and so on. Taken any sites you I just want to say. I'm just tell you how I think about this. I dont disagree with that. We, I disagree. You sometimes with him saying people can't make you feel a certain way. I think people can attempt to make. I dont think we live in pods and in vacuums, and I think if you tried to actual that's dear detriment, and they use should be taking in other people's. You know or whatever their giving you I mean, doesn't mean you have to do feel at all. But I don't know I just don't think we live. In fact, this is the this is the perfect scenario here, because I can extract an agreement both of you here myself, so I like to use the word harness to talk about how can harness all reactions and oftentimes other people and instigate certain emotional responses in us,
like. If someone says something to me, that's the wrong thing, Its automatically goes going to elicit a response as much as I want to prevent that, I'm not going to be people to and you probably, if you're thinking about how people work you problem We wouldn't want to make it so that you could perfectly control your emotions, because Emotions are functional, like negativity we often hear. Nowadays I want to live without any negativity. I would I endorse that right now, Activity in small doses is elegantly adaptive but when I get a little pink of anxiety a week before to give a high stakes talk, that's a good thing. That means I'm not watching football in basketball and doing oh no work it means are I'd even time to get to it, so negativity can be good. But when the emotions get too big and stay for too long a period of time, that's when things get proper,
American, that's where our ability to control comes into play as we can. Rain in that response and we can move around, and that is a really useful skill. I think I can get an example of what I mean generally, when I'm bumping up against this. When we have this argument, I guess I point, as I start from a place where you are tempted to say This person objectively wanted to hurt my feelings, and I agree with that. People do objectively try to hurt other people's feelings, but here is where I think you're personal role comes into play. If you, by a homeless person on the street and they look up at you and they say you're a fucking loser does not impact you? You do not care because you don't seek there. And now, if someone you look up to, let's say we were interviewing someone that Monica loved historically and they say you're a fucking loser. It would be crushing. Now both people tried to her,
you, but one has status and one doesn't you want approval from one person and not the other. So for me once I recognise that it is that subjective, whether or not I'm going to care and its own desire to get approval people's status or people. I love whatever it is that to me, where your control comes from, or at least you have to acknowledge its actually not objective? Well, I think- What I hear you saying is when our self is on the line, so to speak, right like when Something is said that actually impacts us makes us feel vulnerable. That's an organic experience at emotional response. Totally. Not everyone. You know. I gave a presentation to my kids class a couple of years ago and one kid, you said this is boring. And I said well, that's not nice, no more talking for you, but I didn't lose sleep over it. Now I might lose in another context right so well, you are on the line, can make a difference in terms of
whether the emotion is triggered weren't, a simple species like it's hard to predict. What's gonna trip you up is different from what's going on, You up, Monica like our triggers, are different, but once the emotion is triggered the tune, We can use our similar NEA Ok, let me go one step further. I guess what I see the solution as and again, I'm very brainwash by seventeen years in a soap factor that in but I guess I am tempted to say is: if would everything that triggered you, if, treated that yourself right. So if I have a set of definition, that says, I'm not a loser and personally meet them and I actually decide that. I have accomplished that, and I dont have a fear that I'm not a loser I believe no one's comment could have an effect on me. But it should because it shouldn't, have an effect on you emotionally, but it tell
you something about your relationship to that person. It tells you something about that person for sure a person may be trying to manipulate you that person. Might you know it's important to take in what there are people are saying, so you can assess an entire relationship situation. I totally agree, but my men and place emotionally, where I'm like what I'm not a loser. You know it's like I'm, not the example. I always using someone calls me short I've. Just I'm six to I'm not sure it doesn't trigger any fear of mine. So figures, you just triggered me Dax. Seven also thanks a lot that make sense, and I apologise, but I guess my point is if someone says to me you're very short, my fur, restart, is why would that person say that what is their agenda? What is their objective? What thing now they dealing with which in general, I think, is a good way to be thinking about these interactions is like it all, things, we say really say more about ourselves than the person were addressing in many ways great example:
talking too much for don't worry, I'm gonna really turn it over, but we had just in timber lake on yesterday The comments than ever Your comment is about how clearly in love Monica is, would just and timber like loyalty. Yes, yes, oh wow, I gleam from mad. Is those be in love with just Interlaken? If they were staring at, I would argue her faces purty neutral to what it is and most photographs she's definitely smiling, but I think she smiles and others- and I was just like that in matters that just straight projection like I would be in love staring at him, and so I am pretty sure, that's what I see I'm Hanukkah's face. Yeah, I mean people do project. Let's go back to me think you're, saying that you're incapable of being hurt right, not at all. I get her all the time, I'm supersensitive right and NGO. So you know, triggers may be different, like the loser com and it seems to me, like your car,
that you're not a loser, and if someone says that screw you I'm not a loser, and I know that, but let's switch like. Imagine someone who you care about deeply said you were a shitty parent that my tweet, you that would let's say I'm workin real hard, and you know my wife says: you're not a good father, TAT, would really really offend me like that, would hurt think our triggers can be different or a hundred and fifty things you could say that I have a fear about or that I do incomplete in that way. Send me really. That's what I'm arguing that that's my work to do so I could somehow either confront the fact that I am not a great and become a great debt so that that doesn't affect me or you know I do it's an internal job. Ultimately, I think, if you had real self esteem across the board, all these comments would have no impact, I don't know, I don't know if I agree that if you
that argument with extreme. That would suggest that you would never never get offended by anything. Yeah. It sociopath, like you're living in your own space and nothing affects you like you want to effected by the world and then a handle it and I'm definitely not suggesting that you don't handle it after, you feel the feeling, but you should be taking in in feedback from New York community? I agree we shall animal and this is how we help each other be good animals. But what I'm saying, as you can imagine a state where you confront every of those things that would have affected you, you're a loser, you're, a bad parent, who actually damage if you no longer that thing there is an imaginable stay where you ve actually done all that were somehow you have eighty hours in the day and you become this person. That really is impenetrable to that because you ve done the work
Sure I mean you can make the argument that there is an emotional ideal that is home, a static. You just stick to a baseline. You don't go up or down you just go about living your life and in some ways that's the Easter ideal. I have yet to see, breathing human that conforms to that idea. So I've seen it, but they have to be in complete isolation, we're going to interact with other humans. It's almost impossible. It's it's hard, and so you know it. Almost like working against the machine that ideal we are built to experience, emotion and I'm a proponent of the idea that emotions are are useful, both the good ones and the bad ones as I was saying before, and so I wouldn't want to live a life without the ability to experience both kinds of states. Clearly, I like the good ones better? I mean you know the house, people do but the name. If ones also, I think, are, are vital
alter my ability to succeed and be effective in and be a good dad like I need to know that when I see something that may be offend you or not. You may be Monica like if ice the facial expression, on your face that suggests I may have hurt your feelings. I need to get the feedback I'm sorry, like yeah I'm really sorry. I did not mean to like. I say things. I offend PETE I don't mean to, but I get feedback its negative and then I just behavior and saw motions, are signals really important for me I think the big challenge that I too look at in the lab and and really in my own life is: how can we make our emotions work for us. Both the good and the bad ones rather than take over, which we see happening quite a bit
yeah and by the way, even in my weird utopian thing, I just pitched you guys are neither of you are buying into. I definitely. I still see oh well of emotions. Being someone shares with me, not what's broken with me, but they share with me When you do this, I feel this way and then I he'll terrible, because I do not intend to make the person feel that way, and then I just I behaviour accordingly death. So what I am hearing from you is that your ear, what we would call low on region, shhh insensitivity, so your less sensitive to being rejected, then maybe others, but that doesn't mean you can experience other kinds of a negative emotions. I anger sadness or no plugin Favorite won't stay to arm chair experts. If you dare
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after the voice in our head. Why it matters and how to harness it? The voice in her head wholly smokes me can I both as well as one does one of the foundation all connections? between us is thank you, There is a trial going on at all times in her head. We are horrendously introspective. Were we I'm an obsessive thinker? I think I would say she is to have we been cases we lose objectivity, we're so busy. And for each other, the three of us share the crew, but this is this is this is what the book is about, and this is why I ve spent the last twenty years studying. So if we go back early part of life, GAD interests backed it's, the utopian ideal know thyself right, look inward fast! Ford I get to college. I take my first psychology class and half. If you this semester, we turn tension.
Faction and I'm like the equivalent of filling up my sleeve here we see now. Let me show you how it works and loan hold. What I learn is that there's a lot of science on this and a great deal that shows that such as these, opposite of what I mean, growing up, which is a lot of people all the time when they are in spect when bad things are happening. There getting stuck negative thought loops. What I can Chad rumination worrying catastrophe sizing choose your favorite description, the negative room made in your head, the Itty Bitty Shitty committee right. Mines are taken over in. Awful ways, and so for me this. This became a giant puzzle that I became fascinated by it. I've been studying the past twenty years, which is why is it then in some cases, and we can benefit from introspection like interest
action is an amazing, amazing tool. So it allows us to problem solved to innovate, to create, and it is the basis. I would argue of like why our species is so effective? A lot of people. Of included. Think that this is the e evolutionary advance that thing wishes us from other animals like crazy yeah. So, let's through the utility. First, like little interest, I mean there's a couple things that probably are obvious to many people, and there may be some other people haven't even consider. First and foremost, we think in whatever language we speak or you'll sometimes meet bilingual people right now I'll say they think in Spanish, with whatever it is but the notion that I am thinking in English finds me to a very specific culture which in it of itself is fascinating right because its culture is highly persuasive and it is a structure, and why
confined by that even inside our heads in ways right. So can you talk about that phenomena that that that we think in language, so we can think language or images, and sometimes we think and like I am regularly now fantasizing about the next speech vacation whenever that happens, and we can leave quarantine right now, I can see myself on the beach of opinion, Calot, ten lotion casino. I can. I can do that, but we to spend a lot of time thinking in words, and we do think in our native language there some actually interesting research on thinking in a foreign language, I don't want to get too far too much of a detour but emotion, have less impact when Think about an emotional experience in a foreign language. It has residents like cursing in a foreign language doesn't feel is bad. Cursing in your native language, and the reason is one word growing in developing
we're processing the world through our native tongue, it's so emotions these when you first in the first words like you'll, learn them in native language have the same zip when there a foreign language which he knows you can play with that. Sometimes next time, you're upset now, after all, they Alsatian shall the time and said a share in it. It just cute. Everyone knew even now at marmalade it in German yeah yeah To tell you the words I use in damaged by that I have that Yasser Arafat will have a different conversation when you're tenured. Are you tenured, I'm tenured, I've style your station with you know, that's why you're tenured, even right citizens debate going on here is an interesting, interesting tidd bit. Maybe we get to at some point in a social media, is really interesting with respect to the inner voice, because it provides us with a giant
Miss megaphone for what's going on in our head, like Facebook off says like what's on your mind, just put it out there and some p our obliging that request and just sharing, and I often I tell people that I wouldn't want anyone to have alive feed into what's. Goin on here all the time, I'm really happy without being a private, experience that I can do so degree curate what comes out of my mouth yeah, so, editing is good and so going back to what the inner voice does for us. I think of it the swiss army knife of the mind it does a lot, a different things. One of the things it does is it does it help us edit? Are stories like me now great. Our experience were constantly create stories to help us understand who we are in our vote. Helps us do. It also helps us simulate and plan so enough. I'm prepping fur an interim
I can think ok, your mom he's gonna, say this and then I'm a nurse in this way, and then she's gonna respond, this way So we often do that little raw relation with ourself role play internally in our head, the eye and then at the what are the other end of the spectrum? The universes is helping us. Do things as simple as just keep things in mind like if I asked you to memorize a phone number repeated in your head, That's your and our voice to oh nine, oh you know so so it helps us to a ton of things, but it can. So get us into deep trouble, which is what I spend most of the time study is a really good just so I can put a pen in the language thing. I got curious and she would know this. Do you find, because language does vary, the lexicons different will we have words for things that other cultures don't and vice versa, and it gives us I was an anthropology major. It gives us a sense of what they value is the language you thinkin potentially have an impact on your overall happy.
As our mental health in this matter quickly. We always read. You know Sweden and Finland. These these norwegian countries are always highest on the. U unhappiness scale. Metrics are always you noticed of living all these other things, but I wonder, is anyone even considered part of it is the light quick. She that's in their head yards. A question. So language can shape our emotional experienced. And in fact we ve done a lot of work showing that there are some Corky linguistic. Jujitsu moves that you can use to harness you're in her voice, but as to whether cross cultural differences in language put people. Two different emotional trajectories, I'm not sure of research that speaks to that now, specifically there. Certainly there some cultures that have worked four emotions that other cultures, don't men, that's really fascinating right, because there are certain experience, is that certain groups of people are having prince
I believe that they have a word to describe that other cultures or not. We have a You show with Wendy Mobile, whose family therapist and she also does a lot of stuff and linguistics. So far that show each episode. She presents a word and a different language that we don't have bout word in English is a japanese word where you're unhappy with your hair cut right are you get. You know any kind of funny, because we do all have we know that emotion, but some cultures put a Monica, don't don't project but tat. You love your air, but I just see that yeah, like some cultures, put words to things that others, don't that's so fascinating or war two factors. But again I can't remember I learned this score. This is just apocryphal that also- and you know it- there's no word for jealousy, and now would be, if that's true, which will fact check. That would be a really phenomenal idea that there would be a
that doesn't even need a word Her jealousy the idea, dont know I did. There are definitely studies that have looked at some of these. Comparing different draw groups on these specific emotions and find some inconsistencies on the Paul. I think a lot of the emotions at our that are common to us are expressed linguistically in different cultures. It's funny you remind me of one of the first studies I didn't. Actually I tell the story the study in the book because it ended up being in her voice escapade for with a kind of death threat that was not for an accurate make us not than usual, but we did it daddy, where a lot of you who had noted that in cultures around the world differ culture is used the same words to describe the experience of being rejected, which is the language of physical pain right, they describe they feel when their rejected? As my feelings hurt, I now Hain.
We did a study where we we looked at whether what happening in your brain is similar when you are experiencing social rejection versus no pain, so we brought people into the brain scanner. This is back in New York City. We recruited people who had just been dumped monogamous romantic relationship turns out. Your city, who is really easy to find people and we had them bring a picture of the person who dump them. This sounds terrible right, like we're not trying to make people feel off for the sake of it, we're trying to learn somebody for an alliance. I don't care what you did let's hear now, ok, so so we show them the picture of the person who dump them and as they look at that person This was the thing at how they felt when they said. I don't love you anymore. It hurts it's not pleasant to look at that person and In another part of the study we put a little pro metal probe on their forearm that heated up to a high temperature to be clear Chris, a clear minnetaki slower now to give the disclaimer this is
burning someone. This is like holding a hot cup of coffee without the protector leave. So it's a verse if but tolerable, and we and basically overlap in physical aim circuitry in the brain, so as a funny little study that someone then sent me a death threat for hours. Again. It says a lot more about that person Ok, so is inner voice it is that that's frontal lobe business. Well, there are language centres in the brain, but it's also distributed so fifteen. There's a ago we tended to talk about the brain in terms of specific spots, whereas now we're talking in terms of patterns across the brain networks and there's a network and there certainly a frontal component- that, because One thing that was fascinating and I listened to you on another podcast about Calgene, and I guess there was a tweet. I never read it, but there was some tweet that caused a bit of ass.
Yeah, it went viral and it was basically people Wayne in whether or not they have an internal monologue going in. Three hours. I was shocked. Anyone would have said that they don't. I would have assumed we're all imprisoned with all these thoughts. Well, you know. This is why I think thinking in terms of the inner voice one thing. It does a lot of different things for us is really useful for addressing that debate. Either. Do some people port not having like a monologue stream through their heads yeah. There are people who report that there thinking in terms of images Maura, you know most of the time. However, if Brains are properly functioning there still possess, like the pass city too think in words like so the ability to Peter number in your head repeat a word silently. That is a basic feature. Of a well working brain nets.
Verbal working memory. It's part of the architecture that supports how human beings navigate the world, so we all possess that capacity now Whether we use language silently to do other things like reflect on our problem arms and work through them yeah. I think you We have a lot more variability there in my senses that that whole debate was about at that operates The spectrum, some people just report not having the the stream that we see depicted in the movies. In outward like the constant commentary right. Ok, I probably wrongly or a Rony easily believe the objective would be to get rid of those voices, and I assume you're gonna, make a case, for They shouldn't be like India, I fantasize about a state being or I'm just aware of my current surroundings and I'm present, and I'm not writing the fuck story of my life that no one's going to read that seem,
pleasurable, but that's not the desired state. I would say it the desired states. It has. Actually, I tell a story in chatter about a narrow anatomist who had a stroke and lost her her language, her linguistic facilities were wiped out essentially, and she initially describes that state as one of utter bliss for peace. Firstly, the reasons that that you're describing tax write like no more nagging, all that time, no more over thinking. But then she goes on to describe how, without those voices. She also lost her son, if who she was entity and her ability to do basic things like plan and stimulate was also lost, and so I think that unique proof for just how vital this view this is- and I think the goal should be. Not to silence said, but to harness it right, so to figure out how to me
get constructive. How to make it more. You no support if more coach, like we do, studies on that, how do you eat Patty and motivate yourself come on man get our act together, and so I think that's the challenge and, what's really to me a bit of, mine blower, is that there are two rules that we have evolved to possess all around us and some things we could do yourself ways of tea king to other people and even ways of navigating the world around us that allow to harness this conversation and that's really exciting to study. So when we want to harness it, what are we trying to downsize and what are we trying to nurture so we're trapped? to reduce the chatter, and the chatter is that those zooming in really narrowly on a problem and then getting stuck spinning over and over and over in ways that are ultimately. Dysfunctional and destructive that get in the way Have you doing the job optimally that create. For
in your relationships and and chatter there can be no undermine your your physical health rogoff were built experience straight trust becomes a bad thing when you expect stress, and then you keep experience over time we are, very well equipped to me, team that stress response, because we just keep replaying the negativity over it over and over and that led to the kind of wherein turn our body. That's not so good for on jeopardy. And so when you talk about zooming out what what are the mechanics of that are? What is a literal example? You could give us of how one should attempt zoom out surest, so they're alive it's a different ways. You can zoom out, one way to do it is something called temporal, distancing or mental time. Travel and I actually uses a lot when it comes to covert right. I try not to focus on what happening right now and how awful it is- and I think, are now making to feel nine months from now
twelve months now, when I'm vaccinated when most of the country is and when the ship is right it and we're back on past. What that does psychologically, as it highlights back that what were going through right now is not permanent it somehow got, gives us hope and hope is really really good four silencing those Chowdhury inner voices, so that's one way, broadening the perspective and not thinking just narrowly about what's happening now. I'm looking at the bigger picture can also go back in time. Right like like think back to a hundred years ago, we had a terrible pandemic, but guess RO alive right now sitting here we made it through that He endured it. We grew and we will do it again. So that's one technique. It's. My personal monster, I just want to say, is an absurd and on here before my personal mantra. Is this only temporary. This is only temporary the site. Don't you know what I'm really caught in a dark: blue Moon,
but I just I just try to remember all the time that its temporary and its powerful that's actually one of the finding features of wisdom, so we study wisdom took what does it mean to be wise to a wise. There are a couple of features One of the things you want to do is be able to recognise that the world is constantly changing its constantly in flux. Another thing want to be able to do is recognised is that the law, It's your own knowledge, like I, don't know, Eddie everything I can't possibly know everything to another feature, so that's one zoom out taking. Let me tell you about another one that is fun I rely on it a lot. It's called distance self talk and it involves coaching yourself to a problem using your own name like you're talking to someone else, awhile, silently in your head of course, and so here here's a back story on on this and how this works
We know that we are much better at advising other people on their problems and we are ourselves I mean, have you read a situation or someone comes to you there there ruminating their anxious. They don't know what to do. Reset the situation to you and hey no problem? This is what like I've ever about parents. I am daily. I sponsor Guys- and I hear myself giving them advice that I need to follow, and I just fucking can't do it. I know you know I can tell them all their life easy, and yet I might, while you just can't do that for yourself. There's a impress called Solomons Paradox named after the Bibles King Solomon, who was famously adept at giving like he's known as the wise king, but it came to his own life, yet like a hundred concubines and ultimately built them all shrines and temples, and it got very.
I see in it at all times like these kingdoms demise right. So our boy. This is fundamental in so what what's? Really cool about distant south talk is we're using language as a tool We usually use names. When we talk about other people so, when you use a name to talk to yourself, it's like a cycle, logical, jujitsu, frying. Is it changing your perspective really fast automatically and its authority here's what we need to do- and so that's it a tool with a caveat that I don't endorse, doing that out loud and in public. Silently try to put yourself your problem user name. We find it that actually also gives people objectivity makes it easier to think through problems in an adaptive way. Now in the book profile, some top athletes and some fortune five hundred executives, and I'm curious what tool or techniques
Allergies or methodology easy you found that they employ that we could all benefit from What's a distant self talks, one than I talk about Malawi you solve see in, and the brown using another findings ample comes from Russia on a doll and one of the greatest tennis players of our time who I think it was in his autobiography. He wrote he wrote something to the effect of the hardest I do in a tennis match. Is I try control the voices in my head which to me he is astounding right. So here you have a guy who is competing against V Bass, athletes in the world on the great, Stages in the world he's not worried about how fit they are. How good they're back hand is his India? since he is worried about the conversation is having with himself on the court and so what is he? What does he do to do this? He does something that then elicits you know raised eyebrows and ridicule, so he engaged in these like elaborate ritual
so if you watch Nidal you'll see him, he always walks onto the court carry, the tennis racket in one hand and then, when he gets to his and she turned to the crowd he unzip his jacket. As he's bouncing on both feet, then he carefully takes out his to water bottles and positions on a diagonal one to one too, then, when he's playing. He twirls his hair. A few times looks like he's picking his butt, every serve easing key. In a ritual and what he's essentially doing rituals are highly structured activities and he's got control, so he's trolling himself and his environment compensate for the latter of control that he feels in his head. It turns out a lot of people do this, and science shows that it can be useful. One were experiencing chatter, try to all our surroundings were gauge- and a ritual too
help us in those circumstances and an hour I'll just say that when I was writing this book, I something along these lines, which was very typical for because I'm not the most. Organised neat person, it's you know it's a constant issue in my relationship, three close all over the floor piles of books in my office. But when I was struggling with a paragraph, eight after I go to the kitchen, I wash all the pots and pans, and I neatly put him away, and that was so. Thing inside me telling me to pay try to fix, what's happening. In here right. Into the world around us, and so so that's another fund tool that people use yes, so we ve interviewed a couple of a really successful athletes and I want to say Tom Brady was tell us about his kind of ritual before a game for all those reasons like what's control all the things we can up to the moment, it all starts in
We are also interviewing a formula driver, Daniel Ricardo, and he said I am against those, because what an equitable happens is a part of your ritual can't be performed and now a built, an excuse to not do your job the way you sure you know the insight into this kind of interesting. I guess I would engineer. Degree with this is like knowing your own predilections is helpful to like. Are you the type of person that that's going to be super productive for? Are you the type of person that's going to build an excuse off that because I'm I'm I'm I'm glad you ve brought this up. I mean I'm a big proponent in the idea that there are no magic pills and no magic tools, and so you know I advocated is, is a toolbox approach to managing the mind where, let's say there twenty or so science based tools are likely more. I think the challenge to figure out what are the combinations of tools that work best for you as a unique individual facing you stresses in your life figuring out what Those combinations or blends of tools are that
the really important challenge that that we all face, and could you give people like if possible, could you approach, a definition, so we know, when you're having constructive self talk and when your veering into rumination like how do people delineate the difference between math, there is no very sensitive apple watched, detective all red line that says. Ok, you know I mean the chatter zone, because if they were yeah, but you know I subjectively, when you find that your thoughts are getting in the way of you thinking- and killing and behaving optimally like that cue. To suggest I may be experiencing unproductive chat or so, in other words I'm trying to read a book- and I read pages? And I realise how a man, If I pays, I remember anything. I just read, as I was thinking about this problem right and that's not it.
The thing when your job is to for a living- or you know if I'm so I was to be performing well in a high. Take situation, a big talk, thousands of people and I can't get the words out of my mouth, because I'm so worried about what everyone's thinking like- that's a cue there your minds. Take you over an unhealthy way, so I think it's often apparent when they productive, chatters, shrikes, you know, I'm gonna do submit to one thing, which is: I had these kind of hard fast thoughts about how one should evaluate why their trade, by things evaluate what things are, having an impact on them emotionally and who found myself in a couple unique situations over quarantine, one eye relapsed on opiates. I was fucked up on opiates and then I was detoxified from them. And I recognized in that state, oh man, you know your kind of underestimating the impact of your buyer
chemistry and how that changes in these things, that the tools that I was able to access normally we're just so elusive to me. I also took arthritis medicine. At one point it didn't read: any the side effects came to find out. Depression was one of em and then in nets day at finally, going like. Oh I'm, not enjoying interacting My children I always have what this is curious. The ear mystery man. It's a big part of this, isn't it I tried it sometimes look at people go. Oh man, their problem you know chemically feeling how I did when it's you can almost not climb out of that no question that that's all it's all integrated and connected right. So so the brain is influencing our biochemistry, which in turn is having implications for our emotions, we're. Learning is that I mean by thinking you can change how your brain risk and which, in turn, can have an application on that Neuro chemistry
research on placebos here, as I think super fascinating right like this, idea that I give you a sugar pill for depression. Anxiety and for in all cases, but many cases like if you believe me that this pill is gonna make it. Feel better. Has an effect adoptive affect like This to me is another mind. Lord, what that means to me is that we put Yes, the capacity to choose The way we feel in quite standing ways yeah, but we often have to like back door into that capacity. It's not fully under our control. There are like safeguards that prevent as from unleashing that capacity cell doubt maybe security, but if a trust Person says Dax you're gonna do ok. You will be better. Take this pill, then, that if
comes to fruition. That it speaks. I think the work that science has to do to figure out why we don't have more control over ourselves, yeah. I totally agree with you on that and we ve added. So different scientists. That pointed out, the symbol is, is real. Like Blue, I think we all have this notion of what placebo is all they give you a fake, pillon you, but they ve all pointed out. None the result is real. It doesn't really matter what the cause is. The result is measurable and real semi, like so, let's think about like why, when it makes sense for us to have these limitations on our ability to feel the way we want all the time, because I really talking I write like if we have the bit the ability think how we feel no depression, no, more anxiety, no more anger right. That could be problematic if you, think about it, because we know that people- are motivated to approach pledge earn avoid pain.
The reason negative emotions are useful because I feel really bad. We pay attention to that because we don't want to feel that way. So there are people who are born just by way of example, with a gene a condition that makes it impossible for them to experience physical pain like em ridable. Yeah and you know what happens to them. Yet. Yet really her in dire exact, exactly so. So that's what talking about so it's kind of a catch. Twenty two here right. We possess the ability to feel less bad but you're, if you are in charge of creating something, I don't You want to give that. Mechanism that that entity, the ability to just me, you're late, how they feel without any safeguards at all, I could be really dangerous. Herein lies the great conundrum of the simulation you can't as too much of what we want, a boy doesn't work, you gotta, keep it hunting for more than I wouldn't
Imagine the mastery of this self talk does have the potential to be damaged, I guess Blake was soon, as I saw that you had done the top athletes. I went. Mediately to the Tiger Woods Documentary which we both just watched. I don't know if you had a chance to see that our not having yet it's incredible you it would interest, you saw much because his conditioning sense to three years. Olives is father, craning racket around him. While he played this game and perfected this ability to block out stimuli and two compartmentalize and to really master the voice in the Hague is, as you say, similar to tenants. I don't think there's a mental get your plane yourself. Tigers began himself, unite them there not been an example of someone who better mastered that internal voice, then than Tiger and then the single struggles. He had to me fit perfectly
within that mastery, which is, he can come our main allies, this part of his life. He can silence this voice in his head and he can perceive you know so well, but go ahead. You got me chopping at the video always as well as helping to make your horny for this. We're gonna need another episode hospital this speech. To do something I think, is also fundamental about human nature. We often think about people in terms of traits, so Good itself talk across the board nerve across the board. Conscientious, I have a different perspective. Then there's a different tradition, which is that who e r is very contextual I can be. Incredibly controlled in work contacts, but but total animal, not true, but hypothetically. In other contacts with my friends or with my family, it's an if today, profile that characterizes who we are
Finally one context Then I behaved this way that I mean control. If I'm in other context, then I believe very differently. My ass figures are very different. So when I that example of tiger I I see that as his bill, led to Master self Talk, is getting him into trouble. I view it instead, as He really mastered his ability to control himself on the golf course but when it came to other things in his life, He was in much less control. For a variety of reasons likely. So it's much more contextual. We all, our triggers I would argue that the amount of self control was so overwhelming and he needed such a reprieve from that, when not doing thing, which is what he did most of the time it's like yeah. It could be its power Above all, I could think of other. You know who knows
is there I gotta watch the video or I get is tremendous. I think it's more. My arm, chair theory, is it's. His life was so public and I think when your life is so public, and I mean his to an extreme. You crave a private life because everything you know you need that, and you're not getting it. So I think that more what's what it's about as opposed to instil control is controlling the amount of privacy. You have our anonymity or whatever, but it's not so much about his self talk, I think. Well, you know this is like. I feel like we're in the lab now and were workshop in idea and coming up with some experiments. We can do because when I hear you we'll talk about this, which I agree. Fascinating I hear I think He also started mastering the self talk with his dad, the early on in life before he was famous and well known right and then what see got to the next level a whole day
world opened up to him a world. That now he's got the spotlight on him as you're, suggesting a world where he's, probably more self conscious. Where he has handlers enablers in, and these are all new set of challenges that he probably wasn't as a apt at managing and certainly didn't have the same practice as growing up with his dad. You know gonna the driving range. However often he did so very a different slice of life comes into play and he is my projection because since me, which is, I have demonstrated great, sir. Of control and will, in many fat it's. My life gave me an arrogance in these other harder to manage areas of my life. So he energy is also an attic. He was on the brazilian different pills. He clearly was struggling with that and I could relate to thinking. No, no, I
the skill set to do the impossible so I'll be the person that can handle this situation in the same way handle this other situation in a way most people can. So that's my, projection of. What's going on, you know yeah. What like one of my pet peeves is when someone might say to me, though, remain nameless. You have no self control No, that's not true. I am able to control myself. I can delay gratification for a very long time to do my work and I can tell you- it's true, maybe late at night I get a little package. Want some snack inhibit, but its contextual, so it's trigger. If then- and I think having the understanding that we couldn't be, really good at controlling ourselves. In some contacts, but not good, in others, that's an important observation, and it really.
As then allow us to start thinking about how we can get better in very specific context, it makes it more manageable, because you not now, I have to shift everything about me. It's ok. How do I master this task yet It is compartment eyes like it is it ok, this is an area I can focus on as opposed to this broad, I'm ex wire z. Which I think is all back, then the great disillusion of our colleagues, which is of their people with no willpower, will now they're they're running fortune, five hundred companies? That's too simple! It's in that situation! Yes- and you know this, to have a bigger, You have human nature, which is we tend to categorize. We like categorize, because categorizing makes the world simple and we likes him city, so black white good. Bad controlled. Not on the one hand we have attendance he too categorize and simplify the world? On the other hand,
We ourselves all know when we think about who we are that there is a lie. Texture too, who we are don't reduced. Two categories so How do you make those different views? Align? I think that's a challenge that we really to figure out to improve the way we work as a society. You know we have this we have to start with understanding how were built. And once we understand our built, then it becomes part the ball to start thinking about how to how to the gate, the world more effectively. We need to take I am certainly not like mindfulness. I talk about this little been the book to like gap. Look I told you, I been mantra since five, So I know how to meditate. I totally value the mindfulness invitation, but I do react to them. Stage that we always need to be in the moment which a lot of people talk about right. Like
drop. Human beings were designed to always live in them all that, but we evolved to be I want to live in the past in the future too, and that's really good at it, for quality. So I don't think we should be telling people always be in the moment. I think being the moment if you're in the moment, but also just figure out how to be in the past and the future without getting suck into the chatter vote. Extra Ruins people's lives, and so, we gonna work within the contours of how were built yes, absolutely and your book chatter is a great step in that direction. So what a what four way to try to start understanding both the usefulness, the potential- The logical nature of it and how to navigate it and how to harness it, so people should definitely Reed chatter, so Doktor Ethan, cross pride of an arbour, so great
talk to you. I hope you appreciate my u of em colours, and I hope I talk to you again soon. I think we can cover allow a different topics as great fun. Truly a fun conversation thanks for having me. Ok, thank you be well take care by. Stay too for more sure, experts. There we are supported by athletic greens, the most comprehensive daily nutritional beverage I have ever tried. I have athletic greens every day. It always always always makes me feel immediately better and more balanced. Yes, I've been having a little bit of unwell, spell I've been taking athletic greens and I always feel so much better after it's a big strides, rushing when you feel you deprived of minerals and vitamin it's fast past it out now was only stressors in life is difficult to maintain effective nutritional habits and give our bodies the nutrients. It needs to thrive and empower you to take ownership of your health. One too,
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We're not together. Women Georgia right now, I'm in a storage clause, sacred your cubby, your fact check cubby, copies adorable word right that show that, like to tell them Kinda gardeners, you get a copy, put your stuff in your cubby and they don't really have stopped now, not not too much Little first star not a lot of work to bring a ding ding ding. I met my childhood desk really childhood like before. Like not Highschool does like this. Is a five year olds desk. Yes, so funny, because I remember, I'm all take a bedroom, has a bookshelf attached its tall, and when I was little I was climbing it together, those who smile. Studious, and I lost my footing, and I like
slid down. I got a big scar, my belly, oh my goodness, That's their to this day. Now it's gonna be ok, so a scratch, We got a scratch, then evident stick around a bad one. Now it was a wound anyway. I'm looking at this now and the idea that I could have gotten her on the site. It's is that I was so small, but I soon fell and slid. I must have been just one two inches of you, gonna wedged angles, the I posted it this most Adieu will these artwork came our way. My lord So you, ah my what a picture of you. It was me a tiny mouse about you. I beg your pardon in the bookshelf. That's what made me think of it doesn't look like yeah, it's a little by little whiskers. Those along fall for that little mouse, yeah yeah, but
miser lie, so they don't land with a lot of thunder, then on sky are easily, but they do get scratches they really that's incredible thing about Mises, they eagerly cut him up early slices and then they'll here without any scarring Oki Loi. No, my garage more yeah and I do want to update people because we did tell everyone about it so less they. Concerned, and we can alleviate their fears of opiates then Saturday, doggone on four days, are no no issue. So if anyone who is concerned we went through, it were passed, and I always good and the body is based. A great bodies on great some bad news Tuesday reality, it's about that and also I'm proud of you. Thank you So when they got in there in the shoulder to put in the new hardware, my stellar doktor doctored elements yarrow, he thought he saw some infection thought. Maybe it wasn't, but
let's be safe, he said so. I got a port in my arm very sexy. Its due dab, dude adds a new law gets common good to reinvent yourself every now, and then it's true that's true. I didn't have a Dingle doodad coming out of my arm and so and I have to put in a box directly into it and then they put the news they send away the piece of whatever body material to a lab and they see if anything grows. So for the first five days, nothing grew, which means no infection, I guess journey. We get really excited at my check up, it would have been the ten day marker and I had been told of nothing grows in ten days you get rid of the sport, so I went there with the sole goal of telling him either you pull this poured out on pointed out, I wouldn't automated em, a boy- oh my god, you know I like opera and so about. Few seconds into me a winding up for this speech. I've already were heard in my head. He stops up the culture grew this weekend. You haven't and
as my God, I said, ok so far more another week on this thing, none minimally another six weeks of the deer, we're gonna. Why and I need not, because I can see what the Deuce Turkey are now to be submerged in water with a duty, and I was really looking for the snorkeling with the girls and splashing around or lazy rivers, whitewash lazy, or maybe you wade in and just like, you know, keep your arm now yeah, it's just a pretty big risk to take with an open hole in your veins. If someone here- some kids, God strapped his bacteria flesh f, you gotta wait. I'm really duct tape around its no water. Can we ask your steer this dark, not this doctor but your doctor, but that doctor that her doktor Del doctor
Why don't we ask him what we can do? Maybe he has some sort of great contraption work: land, a proprietary contraption. Oh my gosh, here to force him to invent a medical device and he's going to become a billionaire. This is work now be so lucky to be much larger. Before even do it, then we have to take a second we just have to. We must talk about oh yeah, I'm gonna need you to fill me, so I guess you're referring to the fact that they got Marco Mega Mark on Prince Parry. They got interviewed by opera yeah he's so many take a ways. One is oh bra. She still got it. She dies like some of the things she hasn't like or like someone. The tall sectoral soon, but I loved
like what was one of the things she said where you're like a careful breaks, support supervision she's. We need to pay more nah. I guess it attempting. When you see someone is good as her to think like that's what we should be doing the apple, when me, of course, like Wendy email me after, like after listening to that, I think I should listen. Everyone is taken, their keys from Oprah always the interview two hours while this personal interview? People are just like one something big like this happen show there and then, where does she drop? It was on Debbie Ass. All I think she got like eight or nine million. No, I think so. Yeah circuit the good for her. I now good for her. I will tell you in my very egocentric way that I role through life. I knew that was happening and, of course I so wanted to talk to them, as did you, and
I did fantasize about being like how can we ever be that those people that, like one People decide to talk that were the trust placed crossed my mind ya, but a flattering quota. Be year, wonder what are stationed occupy so cool. Ok, so take away at me with a two okay, so they take my so you're gonna feel so validated a whole, ok, I like that it's pulling the back the curtain on the royal family of EV, hey, that's like whoa what they are And of course, if you watch the crown which of having launched to combine, you're, not my friend, then you Oh that, like you see it, you see it in this. The great dysfunctional families of all time? Yes, but You hear this outsider coming in and talking bowed and like she was suicide. All end was asking for help and they will they want
just like Diana who are dying of an EU is order. Knowing that an Harry said that he said, I could see history repeating itself. No shit Aurettes is more his mom yeah, both the most salacious accusation. Well, the big one the people are talking about. Is someone in the royal family had conversations with Harry you Walter and was pregnant with Archie. There boy work, aid about the skin. Color of the hair. And no one, no hidden, they didn't say who it was, but of course, or speculation. I think it is a pervert out of the picture, I mean no use caught ease really many kind of is but he's dead. Another Epstein California, Andrea? We ponder yeah, you hold the MAX book, I'm pretty sure he's still gets paid and they are they ve cut. Ray and Megan off completely. They haven't there. There
Are there any money? No money, no security, oh wow, like really bad How would the are they do for a living? So he sat so we know they laughed. They went to Canada and envy. The really trying to make it like as good for, though the family s, possible as like we're going to still keep Our duty is we're just gonna. Take one position down, you know trying hard to make them look, not crazy, yet and then they were just like cutting them off. No protection know this and local. The Diana had saved money. Frau kids, and he said I would never have been able to do this without the money. My mom, left me, and now they have like
Europe's energy ideals. Yeah. Can you imagine anything more distracting, then? If you walked into Starbucks infer from parents, Henry was behind Harry, Prince Harry was run, counter would put the Tat thing is really bad because, like you know, are your whole stands about the kids. You know like they dont choose it. He was born into this. He has no choice and to take away protect. And from that person is very scary. Endlich deserves a lot of like death, threats and laws about her race and obliges oh yeah justly got really really really bad. It's really worth, especially for you cause your ears, gonna, feel so good about hating, the Roy I felt guilty fur liking them don't do there. Why does felt like in our interest, to be clear, I dont like them in a way
That's like I admire them. I just find them and readily fascinating and I'm interested in their stories mirrors the question: if you had the choice, would you end this thing? I think up until this appeal, the boy would have said no right now, I don't wanna be, but now now it's hurting people its appeal, a bloody war. Again. My point is always like. Nobody's benefiting their narrowing the deserve even the perpetrators of this stuff, they're fucking miserable nor taking it out and our own owls arose winning exactly that's. What Harry sad other than tabloids oh yeah and then that's a part of it. I didn't realize like their therein who, like their feeding off of each other tabloids, neither royals in the royal need the tabloid so they're like they host dinners at the palace. Further, this tabloids, your bedfellows, yes
Harry said: they're all trapped here. I dad's trapped my brothers trapped, he's, giving them some grace they're, not out of it. So they can't see again, about being in the water? Can imagine meaning that water? What a fucking weird warp in view of the world you am, I now do you think, there would Charles went through like Camilla Diana and all that, like you'd, think he'd have more compassion for why was going on and but he's trap, yeah well think over his while he's got to consider. People like you are enjoying the stories, so it is gonna break your heart, but then suddenly I imagine they see it the same way. People who went to world WAR two thought like one: You'll kill myself, because I believe in this country, like they have some ideal that feels It can justify all other things, murdering people whatever and so yea, I'm sure being a royal is of far
stronger force than being an American, oh for sure, for sure any are literally, like all my gonna destroy this thing that has existed for five hundred years on my watch on Hungary, the Dingus who miss handles this thing. But he made me feel so only for her, oh yeah, yeah busy, sexy yeah, I think so yeah. I remember seeing, may get those photos in it, a great body from a long time ago and using beggars was imbros. Leg was moaning. The Cameroon is top of any fucking. Look great The media are obviously always been a bit rebellious. I felt respect. I respect these two people so much because that must have been so fucking hard to do walk away I'm getting out of the ultimate abuse of relation like darkly, exactly as because
you don't even have a living you dont have and what again was getting a job somewhere that camp can't. He can't get a job anywhere. Various star or podcast hose, but that those there's two options or prime indulges the monkeys on a whole year, ok. So here is the one criticism I heard, and I don't watch it so I don't know, but I I was told that Megan stuff I felt a little too scripted in rehearsed in not really like as much from the hard as much as may be like aired monologues about the situation. Did you detect that at all now, I'm ok, I'm sure there very anxious about this. Obviously, maybe she had pretty planned in her head, like we all do before. To do anything, but I did not feel like it was disingenuity all ok
I am I'm going to explore. Like I'm put myself, an exact same position are in an attempt to write, so let us assume, because patriotism, it's a new more than you ever our am. I think it's in a lot of people more than they recognise rights. I often find myself doing. This is like I don't mind, someone from another country b somewhat critical of us, but there there does get to a point where I get defence. Only. Let us imagine that a English, dude or russian dude came in and wooed one of the Obama daughters and their became this big circus. And then the Obama daughter in the Russian went back to Russia. From Russia. They explained why this whole system we have is oppressive and abusive malarkey I could maybe more critical of a russian and outside
came in and facilitated the end of this thing. That's from my country. I can see a little in group. Our group thing we're might be different. If your british watching her talk about this, then it is for us for sure, and also I think the british tabloid exploit phallic. They say like Megan stole Harry Megan. This. She Maxie yeah. They made her there and so may exert that so yeah there's a good report I mean I get it. I get a people who live there lie, but Americans, not things by destroying the monarchy here, but you know in your example that you gave the Obama's like, if saw, share and the Russian were on Russian TV, Vladimir insertion, and they were talking about. Oh we're, really works. Russia is a russian new
we're gonna hurt and if they were talking about some like real, real deep seated racism that they experienced in the White House. Whatever we reverse raises umbrella in this case, because, as the over US This racism doesn't exist, but yes, right. Though, I would know they could they she could have experienced. Oh, we are be calling out. We love Obama's, I'm starting from colleagues. I gotta pick someone. I love I'm a little wonky on the presidency has ever changing and losing the analogy abandoning anyway point as if they, if they call it something like that we might be like hey what
That's where we are found Asian is in oh, my gosh, but also they'd be doing the right thing. They'd have all doing the right thing by calling it out and try to expose this really bad bad system. Friend whose bread issue that was his take away about Magna guess I was trying to consider why that would be as take away because he's a very thoughtful person, and he is not pro monarchy so arising Why did he read it differently than you? And I guess that's that's. What I'm trying to come as a justification is like Similarly, she is an outsider. Who's been very critical of the thing he is born into so I can acknowledge Also, maybe me she wasn't like bawling, maybe fur hair he disliked does I would add, to fight? You knows autumn people do that or think like? Oh, I be crying or I be doing this. If I was talking about it, you know everyone just response differently, especially when talking to Oprah them We think immediately of Madame Grant
viewed Malcolm recently, and they re? I have not heard any of them. Have you heard the now? I know they're like debate re, yet they fight the greatest I mean they love each other, but like they don't agree on anything in Adam, is so challenging to him it's really fun and in other is there such different personality, taxes really fun, but one or two things was Malcolm head at cited this so logical study that had happened in Germany, where they're trying to disprove that your face is so linked to your heart, which was this kind of consensus in psychology, and they did it. Experiment where the injury and leave these people's down this long dark hallway, and they would put him into a room and then they ask him to read some Kafka or something depressing, and then they open the door and when they came out there was no hallway- and someone from their childhood was sitting and chair in front of them and they ve film their phase, and then they asked and what happened name, they would say like. Oh, I was I was so shocked and I was in there. You know every single thing they would say they experienced. And really none of it was on their face and some
I promise I got my opinion that study kind of dispute- this notion we have that people's faces are so telling and then Adam countered and said. Well, it might more proved that p or are really shitty recounting what they were thinking or feeling tat they might have not had the language or adjectives say what they were really feeling like. They just went to all. I was shocked fascinating debate. Our that's interesting here and I think what they do. Is they ve any time on? One of them has a book the other help some promoter, but they have been promoted by shooting on a kind of early so that I can listen to Adam Bede, a stone, Malcolm Show where he was promoting his book. I ended so funny has had Adam, never said it. He said I want to say that I have observed a pattern where you write a book with a theory and then, a few years later you write a book with the opposite. The he's like blink is say that people are really good at things lysine and they can make really good decisions.
And then you write the most recent one. I forgot the name of it that I love, which is people, don't know what anyone's talking about and confusion is the norm and then he says, then you write outliers, which is about there's no advantage in it's all about thing and then you're right, David and Goliath and say all being empowers the disadvantages like what you meant. Malcolm just like you, dont care, like you, want me to have a seamless trajectory of my thoughts and opinions, and I don't he's that I take great joy and contradicting myself- and this is our fastened- is tasty AUS really tasty? Let's hardware, even although back so this is a fact which is something I wanted to bring up. He talks about Raphia on the door. Rituals and we know a lot about rituals on here and I think after hearing all these different opinions, I just worry the rituals make you
c d, like I don't know if they can and on his back and work backwards like that, but but the exact same thing they're both an attempt to get control over something uncontrollable right, yeah, but one INA Oecd. You don't have control of what you have to listen. The song either yours is you have to listen to us on twice ones, Aunt Ellen John Bia yeah. Anyone say I know I'd hate, even saying. Ok, we know and I M hoping shrouded in bad luck with MRS iota by you know, that's something can't control, whereas with these athletes their creating them in their creating the compulsion, they're like creating thy tap this five times, and then I do this. It is a way to get control by its invented, but then I wonder at some point: does it does it get out of control
Ok, so I have a little bit different of opinion. I dont think they engineer them. I think they are things they link to so one day they were green socks and they finished first so that they make the connection of green sacks. I I don't think they set out to have these. I think they take notice of something they did just prior to in a great warm ants, and then they clock, So I would say I would say the chicken or the egg is that their OECD, the already time might be true. And then I think, Verlag, DNA, Danny Ricardo, who doesn't believe and those with a really really defendable why I prefer it yeah yeah, why you gonna? Let these little things inform all you do is what have one of those goes wrong like that? That's GINO, but I think it's easy for him to have that opinion diseases now c, b yeah. That might be too, who came right by. We talked it out Ok, the name of the disorder that where you can feel pain. Ah it's just.
Odd, congenital insensitivity to pain or yeah I know, but he said- and I were enough for me to take a meter- is I don't love it either congenital and insensitivity to pain and an hydrolysis see the ip. Is her at a Terry disease that causes affected individuals to be unable to feel pain and unable to sweat. Oh Anne Hydro, Sis is unable to sweat that, as you are, you're Hydro and Meda, make sense, K o use another general insensitive to pain, also known as congenital out man, national anal? anal vizier, who give here the option easier. Anal Vizier, anal, easier on now geezer I now he's here. Oh my gosh, I've got a rag doll, just treat, both anal easier
Zeilinger anus is full of g. I think it's like per Jerry the disease where people aged quickly, I think, is of a gazers anus early, I ain't no easier, because our Benjamin button had no. He had reverse anal easier by guy. His ass Oleg Way younger was a baby's animal, the abalone the baby he had regular, our anal easier he had straight up Indonesia, but that is turning into a river. We a little bit about the tiger dock. In this we have talked about it on yours. Integrate super intuitive and I just tell you know there is an idea, yeah yeah Tiger Woods, and there has been an update, of course, Since you got my car accident in just one thing, you like it when people are probably gonna get mad at me, fella sympathising with him.
But you know this dot comes out. He's alive, he's feeling that the world is large. About him hearing stuff about him, a portrayal of him that he's out part of- and I just wonder if that leg it must drive you crazy. Any already is not the most stable, although is is super power of this associating compartmentalizing being employed right now is actually able to crews, you have more than any other person wooden nor We be able to pursue I just wonder, is on his way to play golf right, yeah he's in public playing golf. I know- and I think that compartmentalization star send a certain point. Unless your truly truly diagnose, simply demeaning cells, the path. Ah, then, I think I compliment delegation
and now or at least it's getting funneled into other areas, and you don't know it. I guess what I mean is like his ability to ignore his surroundings and the reality around him? I e tonnes, a noise is dead, doing the keys like Hagen yeah yeah. He can get an attack clearly and ignore the world, and and maybe that's what he's been doing to deal with all this think. The fact that he had like thirty girlfriends include some. How do all that as a lot? Thirty people, that's a lie with the latter folks, but that's really offer Ethan. I also Laura me too share. She too got a mantra when she was like five or six for her birthday, which is really funny to Laura. I grew up in Iowa in them my hurry, she community she went home a hurry she school and its weird to me that Laura grew up like that. I think
her growing up- and were all hanging out o my you seem the matron nor more abnormal, but just like there's. No, trace of it exactly like I'm more aware of. Like all you want. Do you see? That seems yes in keeping yeah, but not moderation, yeah or they meditated at school, and he has in fact done. Your six birthday was a mantra he ivy resentful. Let me in my therapy right now right over there be. I was suggesting off MIKE that you get Europe find your way over to Athens and do a little booty pumpkin. Oh that's true! The good old days I was hoping you'd dust off your booty bumper I was one may. I should like to look through some pictures as if there were any pictures of those party oh yeah yeah, give it a good idea to scour. Go through with a fine tooth car? Ok
I love you. I love you
Transcript generated on 2021-03-19.