« Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

EXPERTS ON EXPERT: Bret Weinstein

2019-01-24

Bret Weinstein is an American biologist and Evolutionary theorist. Bret sits down with the Armchair Expert to discuss the boundaries of empathy, the concept of metaphorical truth and the bonding dynamics between males and females. Dax and Bret advocate for the protection of intellectual discourse and the two agree that there isn't a universally effective human diet. Bret talks about the evolvement of monogamy, the trajectory of gossip over time and Dax teaches Bret about the mechanics of the hall pass.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Everybody welcomed arm chair expert experts on expert boy. Do we about juicy pre? the team brain bomb for you today. The ideal we like this gas is joining the top wrong of our favorite die intellectuals who ve come on here and made time fly. We may want him to come on as a recurring gas worth thinking about. Avenant is much zeal. Stop by Brett Wine Stein is an evolutionary biologist. We just covered him on other pod cas where he just as the most well spoken person we ve ever heard ever you can throw any topic at him and he will just start the launch in on it. He was a professor as well at ever brain where there was a very exciting protest in his classroom. It was found on you, too banned by all accounts. He prevent
Elden that interaction people trying to silence his speech. He thinks about everything with the most unique perspective right, we're just gonna launching bizarre things at him and he would run him through his little evolutionary biology calculator and he has such an inch listing. Take on everything yeah. I do want to say what we set out. Some of the other guess you ve had on that. You might not agree with that. anything? He says an you also, my Bristol, at some other things he says bet it's his and lens and his knowledge base he views the world through illusionary terms. Yes, that is how he is making sense of the world around him and it is a fascinating pet pair glasses to slap on for a couple hours ferry.
so without further ado. Please enjoy who we hope will be a recurring gas Brett wines time we are supported by Robin Hood, Robin Hood. Monica Robin Hood is a very cool app for investing. You can buy and sell stocks ATM options encrypt those all commission, free, that's, crazy. That's the key commission free, most broker dessert upwards of ten dollars, a trade, but not on Robin Hood girl for stock market newcomers to invest the first time we'll be easier, very easy to understand, charts and market data. You can make it trade in just four taps smartphone, can you handle for taps? Think I can almost everything you do is three, but I'd think for sure you could do for tat like implicit before you can view stock collections like hundred most popular or sectors like entertainment, social media, female ceos, it's fantastic law,
now do invest in build your portfolio. Robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like Apple Ford or Sprint, to help build your portfolio sign up. An arm chair die Robin Hood: dot com- that's arm, chair dot Robin dot, com get to earn in that paper he's right. Why Stein is here, who I have long admired and them you know just kind of worship, admonishment, both yeah we heard you and SAM Hair ass. Our conclusion was your: maybe the most are taking the person we ve ever heard without being to us a liar de yeah. We
We heard that episode, we're like jeez, always the sky. I mean that he was basically throwing new grenades that the pin had been Paul. Two seconds are going. You heard about a second to unload it before it exploded and you just navigated also whether so many hard hard topics confirm. in all of us right now and you I've kind of a unique way wade. I don't notice the above it yet get into it. It's really admirable. I really like Atomic super excited you're here effects. I should say in the same Harris case. I definitely cheated. Oh you Tell me how little we always do. I'm gonna cheat now to get what I do is I spend a huge amount of time obsessing over. What's wrong with what I think and so you know at some level it does on earth the errors in the ambiguities so that at the point they come up. in conversation you know might seem like yours, Will they come up with an answer right away, but really the pointed at a rehash of something that occurred in private right.
So do you do this? You can possibly have arguments with yourself in your head: oh absent time. An effect I would argue this is one of the keys to human uniqueness is the fact that we can learn. Really hold two views that cannot be reconciled simultaneously and have what amounts to a literal argument with her ourselves about the truth of it. They are that the ability to do that puts in a great position to discover what we don't know. Basically, the bootstrap knowledge rise cells. Crazy helpful relationship? Isn't it it is. so good unless you get to where you really don't understand the other person's possession, and so your attempt to push it out with yourself. Just all that happens to me all the time. I have the argument with my wife and my head before I bring it up at dinner
and by God she never goes with the script. It's like. I predict what she's would objection she's going to raise two, my my thing and I've already got an answer for and then invariably she never goes down that path, right, yeah what she's senior come in and she won't be a winner social life ago. Some other direction, which you know frankly keeps an interesting idea and also its kind of enlightening in that like. Oh, she genuinely has a different perspective that I often can't get to through any any technique. I won't be able to get to her perspective, sometimes almost like she's an entirely new. Imagine it's crazy. But we em right
He sat down, we were we. I was. I was meeting that I can up on project under people who I d lies for being smart. I all my character, defects and praying they have when they arrive so like I'm, hoping they drink too much coffee or maybe they have nicotine or so you know something, maybe flip someone off on the way here and the no doubt they didn't even doing it and get it out of my sister good, clean out the carbon of the engine, but yet but you ve started talking about empathy and in the limits of empathy and how it kind of works. Well, I was getting at is that empathy is basically predicated on the model that you carrying your head for somebody else's architecture. So if I mean I have my own sort of technical definition for it that I've used in the classroom basically, I say empathy is: is it is running the data of somebody else's experience through your brain architecture? In order to how they will feel and to predict what they're going to do, which
you know, we I think we incorrectly view empathy that that circuit is useful, whether routine about somebody who's, an ally of yours or an enemy ring. You want to know what an enemy is going to do. Maybe even it's a higher already the knowing what your allies you're gonna do sometimes. So, just simply, you know understanding, for example, why I Hitler kills himself, as the Russians are descending on. The bunker is important. You size in order to understand why he would do that. But you don't sympathise with right right. so in any case, in order to empathize. Well, you have to have argued, sure that mirrors what's on the other side, and there are really two ways that you can get. That one is that your experience, a similar enough to another person's experience, that your architecture, simply is like theirs, and the other is that you can put yourself through some kind of exercise that generates architecture. That's close enough like, for example, all sorts. narratives tat we are obsessed with well our literature movies. You really
What you're doing is your understanding, what it's like to be a character whose living some very different life and if the character is well drawn- and they have to be- if they're, not plausible, they're, not compelling, so in the characters well drawn by somebody who does understand the mindset of what's on the other side, then you basically import. You know it's a sketch, but get that allows you to understand what them what lies there so, for example, regime and we must have us. Don't live a life like twenty soprano button. a large number of people followed the story enough that his emotional states made made sense. Yes, so, anyway, that the upshot of this view of empathy is, at some time. For example, in my case I actually met my wife in high school. We were not going out, but we ve been together a very long time we traveled in the same circles for most of our lives at this point, which means
I do not have a very good understanding of who she is right up to a point, and the point is the point where its different to be male than Those circuits I have to be careful to draw on experience that isn't mine and doesn't mirror my architecture, and I think there is a lot in that that is really a lot of. trouble in relationships can be avoided. If you simply understand that your, if you're trying To imagine how well do I understand the other person and you extrapolate from the way they view art or the way they view circumstances or other cultures. You may be misled into believing. Oh, I get this person completely and then in the zones where you dont get them at all. You you'll trip over some learning learning where your your model is not a good predictor is the key to a good relationship. I think Yeah, you know actors do this, or so it is a technique in acting, I certainly employ, which is we Montana
I've had debates about this. Now I do not know the black experienced. No ever will. I can see that for sure. I was dyslexic and I left the room for an hour every day to go to but was then called the retard room, so I certainly know what it feels like to be excluded in arms aim and there seems to be some rich, some hesitancy or some resistance. I understand that knowing someone story, but I also reject a little bit. I don't know the emotions at the bottom of the story or that I can't relate as a human to feeling rejected ostracised alone. All these things that are scared. All these emotions that are maybe like route base, emotions that are the room. You know the end result of these unique situations that I feel like I can relate to people on it, but it's it's very tricky and murky and dicey. but the question really is: do you have a good detector for where your ability to predict falls off right below?
in our also not blacken, for sure that there is a level of ignorance that I will, but I just can't get beyond and I'm very interesting. You know to IRAN that level of ignorance and to understand as much as I can. But you know I can't understand what it's like to be black anymore. But I can understand what it's like to be a woman it it's just not it's not the same level experience that one has withstood, on the other hand, I had an interesting experience. My first research gig was in Jamaica in a little town, Helen gone from Anywhere South Field, Jamaica, and I was brought thereby my my adviser at the time Bob traverses Ex very famous evolutionary biologist, who spends a lot of time in Jamaica. One point he left to go. I think, actually he was giving up lecture at the CIA. Here he left- and I was the only white person for item fifteen miles in any direction and the
thought is that I'll tell you what it's like to be the only black person in a white town. In the? U S, it doesn't, oh yeah, we break them down. Tell me why well there, as I might narcissism Romania can I got this is exactly now so that look here, The thing is in Jamaica and I now encountered this and lots of other places there. sort of two parameters. There's are you the minority that part tracks? from right when I was the only white guy in South field. I will I stood out like a sort of famine. You know, as I walked my motion through town was easily track. People were probably Please presently aware of your whiteness right right and you know it came up. as as I would pass, people are not self conscious about this fact. The fact that I was a white person reading black people was like central to the interaction. The eye
There is a thing that doesn't flip, which has to do with power right. Because it was clear that I was coming from the? U S and in other cities, are economically very different worlds. The point is the power dynamic did not flip was like yes, this person is other, but they are also the powerful culture, and I would have justice and that in a second, if there was any way to do it. But there wasn't your inexplicably linked to the head Germanic Power bearing right race from it at her, but even more jarring ministers. I was twenty. So as I was now you and I was like, about how the world really works. But there was a couple of events like a child was born in the town, somebody not connected to the people. I was living with but the child was very light skin and this was celebrated.
boy you now that's a piece of knowledge. I did not want to have that. These that the color is I'm ready. Yet there was biased in favour of light skill yeah, even in a place where everybody's black, yet so deep, you can even begin, but it's not the deep but its ration, because the thing is extended? The world is biased in this direction. It you know you want the best for some child has been born into your community and to the extent that they're gonna have unfair advice, It is because their skin is light. That's good! yeah, yeah right and unfair yeah you're I'll well position too. when the advantage they can have wrought, so that was that was the opening, to say the least, and you know it took a lot of a lot of work internally to sort of reconcile myself to okay. This is this: is the world eleven. But now you are spent a lot of my research time in central and South America and the biased there are two and you know you want to see it
go. Look at the products in the supermarket right. Of the models on the packaging, are latino. but they're all light skin small, this european aesthetic- and you know it doesn't look like the people on the street rights right that's not representative, it's not representative so anyway. Well, I have a friend I M, a good friend who is his father's black and his moms, either white or she's. Maybe half right now like regardless, he was brought to his father's side of the family down south in their from Washington in the first, thing the grandma said their little boys and he's a set of identical twins in the grandma. Looked at them and she goes keep them out of the son A pass, though The first sentence it out like a HAWK I would now you know they're, so many layers to it that I would not crossed my mind. I grew up with that with my grandparents same thing like they would when they were talking to Our friends, the color,
of our skin. My and my brothers would come up as like. How are they that was part of the answer all like there crackling, like order yeah, oh wow, and they are all Mamma Mamma. I pretty light skins and I think they bade really there's like a pride in that and then also programmes for the british, and you know that's like a whole thing, but it's interesting plays a part of it. It is, and what do you is that a historical thing will shake at some point. Is there a trajectory out? Is there an answer? How do we, like you know, is the melting pot. The solution were everyone's just some kind of shade of Carmel. What what? How do we transcend that huge chunky history, the great question and its one
I'm obsessed with, because it's really it's a special case of a more general problem and to me I think it's it's the problem, the dictates whether or not there is going to be a viable human population on planet earth. Two hundred years from now. The question is: can we escape the programming that has evolved in us for essentially tribal conflict? That programme makes perfect evolutionary sense and it is absolutely fatal in a context where you're dealing with the kind of weaponry and industrial power we have at our disposal, once you spot that we are wired to exclude people who are likely to have less genetic overlap with us than other people and that we are capable of doing something alternative. I mean this conversation right here is not pretty
get it on. The fact that we are closely related to each other are distances arbitrary and its productive. So there is this other basis for for cooperation. We have to essentially recognise what our dreams are up to be properly horrified by happiness? is horrifying. Be ahead of it right well, but the hardest part it's real. actively easy to say now its relatively easy, not to do your dreams bidding on this front. What is not easy is did step away from here for genetic programme and not lose the game. So please explain how better to me, I'm if I fell off if enlightened people reject the genetic programme for tribal conflict because it doesn't match their values, which is I think what we will all do. We will be at a competitive disadvantage automatically to people who didn't reject pressure or even killed. cultures around the globe that aren't embracing that right right. Plainly, that that,
In fact that endeavour can be used against us. It is inherently a competitive disadvantage right So in some sense we either have to architect a way in which people's tribalism is a disadvantage or we all have to step away from it together and both of them, are not easy to match it. So true, when you look at just geopolitically, what's happening at the moment theirs, there's somebody ways a look at that some of this stuff. So, ah I want fair so much for us to head in that direction. I believe that the enlightenment, the ideals of the enlightenment, are worth fighting, for. We should be embracing those, and yet I also recognise that perhaps I ran in North Korea aren't plane with that same sat where I mean the very cynical evil part of me, probably, male parties like what we need to do: this choice, dominate
entire planet so that then we can put the switch and be enlightened. It seems, like The only route out with the army goes. No, maybe we have our characters appealing than everyone else will want to join us. That's all it's hard to figure out right Well, it isn't it isn't. I'm crying, I think, I'm in partly the solution involves doing exactly what we're doing now and the irony I dont know if either of you feel it, but I certainly feel that the topic we're on in others. Pardon me, that's reviewing what we said here and wondering well was that it did step over a line that this is now going to become. You know that focus of of mice. I worry that I'm, maybe not a decent person for thinking, thoughts about raising I'd functions and my guess, as we haven't stepped over such a line yet? But the fact that there are such lines complicates the press sorting this thing through believe what we need is to read.
He's the threshold of a fence so that decent people can have this they can say things that are wrong. Thing discover that they're wrong. They can honourably back up and say: ok, I'm convinced, I no longer believe that thing I believe, the sting instead that, conversely can get us to a more hopeful path than what you're describing and then you can imagine what what people in the part of the world that you're suggesting would have to be dominated and led to the enlightenment here in that state, of course, did not. Let me just acknowledge that that's problem with the same rationale that lead every evil thing we ve done. Historically, imperially ought in fact we ve done quite the opposite. We ve taken honourable experiments in enlightenment and weave installed dictators who were more favourable to our international policy all over the globe. Again and again. So the fact that we have not been we're, not
but in doing this, we're not gonna doing, and we not even always trying to do it and sir, I somehow we have to get on enough of the same page that We recognise re ferment. This danger, if we don't all that is humane and he don't I'll get to a similar enough paid soon enough that we can see and down the intertribal conflict. That is so dangerous to us and replace it with think better. But you just want to throw one innocuous example, and I think that the example so innocuous said, I hope, maybe frame why what you're saying should be embrace, which is there, is a famous court case here now lay in it was by an assistant in the writers room of friends, and this assistant was suing for being subjected to sexual content relentlessly and all these different things that made the person feel less them in the outcome of that in your party aware of this court case, but the outcome of that was no
the writers room on a television show is a creative space in the creative space for us to get to the joke. That makes it on tv. That's not broadly offensive to thirty million Americans. We have to make about twenty eight, terrible jokes. We have to make some then a racist, some that are sexist. Some that are all these things were, throwing everything against the wall and collectively we're going now. That's actually raises if you break it down like ok, great, let's get where that. What can we replace it with an there's this process that has to happen for us to get to that? milk, that you're gonna, except on television, and so luckily I think that Process was was was protected up in his did. Court decision, and so now we re presenting a writing room, they're kind of warned- and this happens on sets as well, which is like a fear at the monitors with the director in the actors.
you're going to hear some shit. You don't want to hear because we're going to try some things that are not gonna work and then we're gonna come to the things that also has to happen in philosophy. It has to happen in biology, has to happen every where we have to have a safe place to throw shady ideas up on the wall before we get there. so fine line right like they can't you should Able to make job that could be offensive cannot be offensive which can't like pull your pants down in Georgia, as a job example. Is this funny INA there would be learning dazzling be. Finally, we can all agree on. You know you have to be careful when you give Carte Blanche. You do As all these things, I think there's nuance in contacts and all these things, but I think here's, the part where I think people are so scared, Miss frustrates me. We have the ability. to discern whether point on your pants, jerking off in front of the writers assistant weaken figure out. That's that sexual harassment and or predatory we
the ability to navigate these things, and I think people are so afraid that we can't navigate that. We just need these hard black and white rules that will hopefully get us out. But ever having to think about something complicated again, but I just don't think that's how progress is made of stone four for very long combination that spur on anything you're, so many target, we have six there as a parent upstart. So, first of all I would just point out the the elephant in the room is that we don't even have a good evolutionary explanation of what humor is and so we're trying to navigate with the rules of it. should be without even talking about what its function as- and this is a terrible mistake- You are their theories because I mean I end with their mark. They also have a deal. How come, but I would, I would argue that superficially, let's just but a placeholder theory, but a hypothesis and in place.
Part of this is that humor treads at the edge the fringe of consciousness and at what happens when a comic finds a truly funny jerk. What they are doing is on earth. thing, a truth that people are only kind of aware of, but he's so universal, that the whole room. Suddenly ground, that everybody else gets the hasn't. Aha moment right and in fact I was playing with this hypothesis- and I mentioned it, somebody- and they said the Tom starboard had said laughter- was the sound of comprehension, which somewhere near neighbour to the same idea? But anyway? The point is: I would argue that this mechanism, humor, is the mecca- in which we sort out what's in the grey area. If you eliminate that, tool by saying, hey, you can't say anything there that's over the line. Will then, how exactly do we fix where the line against any what it's made of the
apparently right by design. One has to step beyond the line, to figure out where the line the right and, to the extent that somebody steps over the line and the room, irruption laughter. Well now you actually know something you know that? Don't you know if it's racism that has caused the room to erupt and laughter? Yes, you have a problem, but the problem isn't what the car mixed said, and so do the standards on earth. Something now We at least know what landscape or you can see that something systematic NGO like Everyone here seems to have the same right. awareness of something? Let's put it this way, I dont think can write a rule about this topic is off limits me right. You can't anticipate every edge case. I've forgotten the comics, mainly australian, comic, who had a song about the only a ginger
can collagen drink ginger. If you heard that I haven't heard that out. Well, the thing is this: song is entirely the all the humor in the sign. The song is quite brilliant, very clever, hahaha. treads right next to the inward for the entire thing. Does it by substituting other concept, which actually isn't a sensitive concept. Button right, This is an unanticipated case, so we can do so, I'd, maybe that it's over the line there, you can't decide its, not clever its clever. Right, there's so what what I've? Also you get old enough, which I'm getting old enough. I start seeing things in common that are very telling one is, one of my very best for she directed to turn out besides a bashaws on whose jewish and very jewish goes to synagogue and is involved Please tell telling me why likes pass over. One of the reasons was: is his rabbi tells him all these jokes, and so he was repeating some of these jokes ripe and as
repeating them. I started noticing, so one of them was the sky com can't get his wife to reach orgasm. So he goes and says to the rabbi. I don't know what to do and the rabbi says. Well, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to a bar tonight and find up the biggest gentile you can and in not gentile into the room and make love to your wife and while you're making loved you have had the Gentiles spin, a towel over its head spend the Tao over and over again to make love and she should reach climax. So he Some finds a big gentile, the guy right. She does not reach climax, and then he goes actors rabbi and says I don't know what happened. She didn't reach climaxes, Ngos. I tell you what This time tonight. Have the gentle make love to your wife and then use swing? The tall over your head
ok I'll do, that saw the Gentiles hurts making love to his wife. He swinging tell over his head in his wife starts. Coming like crazy. That's how you fuckin Spinnet Tao is its old. These jokes, I started realizing that in my own community of white people, we have almost all the exact same jokes but replace it with black guys. So Do you have that, basically, that same job it was go, find a black guy to have sex with your wife, I realized all all these jokes are playing upon these other strata that are either that group FI emasculating in some capacity so like somehow the gent that this in this who is joke the Gentiles emasculating, the jewish kind than in our version of it. My white neighbourhood was, in black eyes, mescaline The aim is emasculating the group that the jokes about- and I just on that very funny. That of the jail
the same interest. What cultural inner group dynamic is. Are you plunging into the same equation? Is it ass? An eight? It's interesting. You ve got both dynamic Sometimes you have jokes that are economical and you can swap in different. The cities or something Amazon, and you know across certain cultural boundaries. The jokes distant translate at all, Oh yeah, that's true! It's! Actually! You know. If we go back to the original topic that we were talking about, it's it's a way that you can become aware that, to the extent that you feel, like you understand somebody from this other culture, you actually dark, because if you did you'd get why the joke was funny, stay to export their wares. Boarded by me and these sweet love me. Andalusia, begone me funding, because there is such a blast put on you and I always choose the adventurous prince yeah. They sent me a really cool a pair of wine and cheese,
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Does one Tasty box and meet nine to eleven pounds or shop at your door and that's good for about twenty four individual sized meals news subscribe, members will receive two pounds of free wild caught alaskan salmon plus twenty dollars off their first box by going to butcher box dot com slashed down get into that meet you. Yes, in so Iman, either an area that Ives as started to slowly evolve towards is in let go it is a union that I want to defend comedy at all costs and dumb but what I am coming to recognise in owning and changing honours its great for you to make that joke about the tall. Stop great for me. Can now recognise that the gene
I can tell Miss jokes. I can't help and that's fine someone will tell him. I don't need to protect comedy white males does have access to all comedy Dave chapels gonna make jokes that I can't make that are better than I could ever make them, and rightly so, and he should now should make fun of my things. So I do think or finding that white male wandered, just kind of invade every single type of humor and tell whatever that white male thought was funny, and I do think I'm accepting that its people, we healthier and better- that I just gonna tell the jokes about me and I do that the accents and the voices that may be pertained to me and that all benefit from that well to a first proclamation, yes, but the problem is: when you decide that you can draw the borders of what jokes your lab tell based on a topic. For example, I was on stage with the Dave Reuben last may have done several of his common issues with them
and it s not really expected to do Carmody, but I kind of like two. Yes, I think humor is fascinating in tremendously firemen and really great, when you explain why anyway? The thing is I like to joke about: Dave's being gay, a home right now, here's the thing, the actual core of the jokes, I'm telling are not about Dave being gay right. They are actually about straight guys. being dim about homosexuality right right. But the point is, if you say well, you're you're strike, I don't get a joke about gay The point is actually we can't navigate this other topic right. The fact that this great guys, do not into it what geyser about and in fact that there's a whole horrible history associated with that failure to grow spit, is something we it to navigate, though I dont want to be told. I can't tell a gay joke because I'm straight, but I
You want to police myself, there jokes that Dave can tell that. I can't Well, let's say really quickly: I'm assuming you were the butt of every gay joke. You may that's the point that yes in ink, but but now Dave can tell jokes, were the gay guy is the butt of the job soldiers? And yes, I guess that's a great distinction to make. That's that's the truth, but the problem is you I'd I challenge you to write the rule that actually defines that border. It's right. It will stand up in court or right. it just won't work, because even if it works in the room- and it always does right- because these are people who have shown up to see Dave Once you decide that the borders of the room aren't the walls of the room and the borders of the rumour actually the internet. And what really matters is that? There's not you know a thousand motivated people who don't like the joke, because they don't think you get to tell jokes about gay people if you're, not gay, yet
Then you got a problem. So what we really dealing with is a bunch of novelty effects where we are not built to understand and the dichotomy of I'm in a room there. A hundred and fifty people in it, but the actual room is millions of people right. That's that's a novel phenomenon that we don't have good architecture foretell unit, jumping ahead to a lot of things. I want to start. We just a couple of really base thoughts so that we can launch in Two things one is, and we both agree upon us. You have a great breakdown of it, so you got it think of a human being is being too things really theirs. There's a genetic part of being a human being and that that that human being has evolved of is a primate for me, no two point: five million years as a hominid. All these things now culture, and your your analogy, which I love is basically the human is the computer and Culture is the software. The computers running and were a vow
very, very unique animal and that we have all put a lot of our genetic coding and we ve left it for culture to felony. blanks. Can you just break that down in a better way that I just did yeah, so Let me just say you can do this analysis and you can go deeper and deeper and add more and more new out, so I would argue you know we had a conversation like this will. Probably it's worth going to three layers. I'm saying the human being is a a a machine robot effectively. It's got a computer on its shoulders. The computer runs on software. It also has firmware, though right so software can be swapped out pretty readily form. Where is more difficult process, What's the firmware in this case well firm, the stuff that we inherit the stuff of deep culture and it gets swapped out by a different process, the software you know what
What you understand about your world may be very different than what your grandparents understood about their world at the level of how you you know interact with transportation and plastics yeah tools. Plastics are all of that model. But then there's another way in which you know we're all speaking English in this room. I have no english ancestry whatsoever. I have picked up a software program that happens to be useful for interacting with other people who have that same software program online and you know, were I to move to Brazil. I would struggle to pick a Portuguese, but my kids would pick it up and that would be the software program they used to interact because the people
then, would be speaking portuguese now, in any case, the the thing that thro his people, people are so used to drawing the dichotomy between our biological cells and our cultural cells. That is not correct dichotomy. Culture is every bit as biological as dreams are, so you can draw a distinction between genetic and cultural, which is still hard to do, because many things have components that live in both spaces, but you have to realise that most of what you are is the product of an evolutionary adaptive process, irrespective of whether it has come to you through genes through culture through software or a mixture. he's very frequently the case. This is basically the nature nurture argument right, like what percentage we think of this as being in the same way, we thought of
the emotional brain in the logical brain all these different by an airy black and white things. So there's nature, which you were born to be in theirs, nurture what you were brought up and change. just as a result of your environments right, we we want to think of- This is by an airy, an opposite. And you're suggesting they're not like that there now like that at all, just doesn't stand up to a proper evolutionary analysis. In other words, if culture could you give us one concrete example of how culture has invaded genetics, or vice versa, Non invaded at all, ok partners, and what has happened? You know you. You said the right thing, which is that much of what in other animals would be transmitted. Genetically has been off loaded to the cultural apparatus. The question is why cultural apparatus is prone to failure. You know a few few are from a culture that has a long tradition of building dug out
it is for the purpose of getting between islands or something like that. A single generation of not building a canoe can wipe out the information so that you can recover it that's a big meaning, everyone that chose not to use a canoe would die or not reproduce or not, is out you're saying that did the genes in essence would die off cause that the gene culture, the culture one one generation of nobody knowing how to build dugout canoes, because it didn't happen either. Maybe there's a fire and there were no logs to build the canoes out of her when it can agent scenario, but the fact of nobody having sat there their men tee down and saying here's how you make a dugout canoes can wipe out the information about how to do it, which is not true genetically right regulatory or I might have some compound that you have an enzyme to break down and you might not encounter that compound fer. You know your population might not encountered for numerous generations. when they encountered again. The enzyme is still when they need
They have had for it. So why would you have an apparatus that is vulnerable to losing it formation. That way on the answer is that downside is matched with a much greater upside, which is the flexibility of having things in a software layer that can be swapped out. If I ask you, for example, what is the human niche? If I ask you, what is the nature of a Mamma said, talk about what it eats and where, where it spends the night and how it gets replaced- place, and we could define that niche. Do it for him. What's the human it owes humans on Everest in in the baron straight. So and the sub Saharan out again every crazy thing. Any I've got people who have survived hunting marine mammals from us skin, kayak yeah. You know you ve got people who have enriched poor tropical, so
bills, by doing advanced chemistry of terrorists. Hillside mean, oh, by the way that that is when I always kind of Brussel when they buy new diet breakthrough about what humans are spells. The end, I think, will you have into its who were eating virtually while fat just their whole die it's well fat into a thousand calories a day they don't have, our disease than you got: people the Messiah, just drinking milk. You know that there's no way. There is a diet for us this simply by looking around and see how many different ways weave it live. It's a paper serious notion. Once you realize what marvelous and special, the human animal actually is yeah. I can't be human die, and this raises all kinds of questions right so for it even raises questions about the philosophy of science, because philosophy of science is predicated around the idea that you advance a hypothesis. It makes predictions and then you see if those predictions are false, if its replica
Well, that's a big part of it right. Well can do that under immigration with southern. Let's say that we have the hypothesis that you know a diet without ex component causes heart disease right and then you tested the internet for high hurrah almost none of these components and they died. Have this very special by you will discover, it is false, Cyrano it may well be true for some large fractionally, even population, so complex systems, don't fuck. In a way that lends itself to the tools that we invented for the chemistry lab, where the physics slap, you were probably the worst thing to study on the entire planet, when your great the hard most difficult, yes, we're it's an and credit Lee noisy system and not a compounded. I think what we ve done is we have wheel, backed out the rules of science from the places that we succeeded early and the problem is that all of the places them
succeeded scientifically early, were even on the simple and of the continual. Now I dont mean simple, like easy to understand. Physics is hard to understand. with the actual material in physics is simple right right at the complex end and humans are at the far end of the complex, and the rules of science have to be different. They just it doesnt work the same way. It is too easy to falsify a true idea based on the noise rather than what actually taking place right- and we don't have the rules for the complex under the continuum yet because we haven't succeeded there well yet right. So, if I understand you correctly, illegal really simple way to think of this would be. If you compare, gasoline and the cylinder and ignited with a spark plug? It should create an explosion, one hundred percent of the time right and, if it doesn't occur. We know we have a problem now if we say human? You feed a human acts, and then they have this education. You should get this result at best, is the solution for us to have. Maybe,
bar, where we're like this should have a seventy percent outcome. That would be acceptable, is kind of a truth or a fact or a law when, studying human just cause, there's so much variation. Could we arbitrarily put some kind of percentage, because we can't deal in a hundred per cent. Well, you know mean there is a way to deal with such phenomena. You can talk about what percentage of a particular pattern is accounted for by a given influence, and you know this is actually the reason that the pattern of diminishing returns is universal in complex systems, where there's a goal is that you tend to find the biggest contributor to the pattern early and You know you got the next one down and the next one down at some point you get to influences that are so small that there are almost impossible to isolate, and so
We begin to understand how to do this, but what we don't have is a way of explaining how to think about such concepts right to say. Well, you know it's science and the fact is what groups biology with chemistry is really only an approach. the two topics are not similar, because in biology you do have a goal. Biological creatures are attempting to accomplish something. Chemical compounds are not, and so these systems to function like each other at all and if you wanted him biology, the goal is to reproduce pass genes and I hate to say it so simply because the old really not very fun to think about it. That lay I that's gotta reminders of every now and then we are obsessing about what color car you wait a minute. This is a very fringe goal.
I've already reproduced, everything is taken. Care of slots is right size. This concern bright well, and also I mean we. We run off the end of the evolutionary taken away because after birth control, what we do and our motivation to do it, which, in the past environment, would have had an influence on report. Action of one sort or another, is now so disconnected from this phenomenon that we are just you know where we have become absurd, right, meaning that in the rest of the animal kingdom few have sex is a great chance that you're gonna be saddled with an offspring at the end of that, but now that we have been, control and we understand cycles and what not you're now having sex recreation, your kind of choosing when you want to have a kid when you don't want to advocate all these things, throw the whole are
conventional darwinian evolution model at the windows out. Well, it's even one step more interesting than that. Ok does what you said is right about other creatures. Mary few creatures have sex when fiend are not fertile bonobos. He asked why we like them so much tat, though the story on banal both may not be as a little exaggerated. It's a little exact. I've still seen a lot of tape of women rubbing their vaginas together and staff from light our actual argue about envelope, yea, I dont, really mean women, a regular email, bonobo using you may have seen that too. But so I've seen conflict resolution was sex which to me seems really idea let our it might have been inflated, but I do love the idea of me. the guy getting shoving match the gross storing on fucking wondered each other. How does seem like a more peaceful way to do it about? Ok,
another story, I'm just saying I would like to put an asterisk aren't. I am not convinced that we have it as as clearly as we have portrayed it. Ok, but there is something very unusual going on, but others on sex, no question about it, but here's the here's, the interesting thing about humans long before we had birth control. We had sex for pleasure now. The question is why so in humans. We have concealed asters right right. though we don't know even women, and you will get push back when you say this to a classroom full of women, because there are ways to know when you are fertile. Your breast get larger right, but isolating actual period of time in which a woman's eggs can be fertilized is a very dicey business at best right.
Judge. I just wanna write that down lay person so when a winner, but about boon, is fertile. Her vulva swells up, who in turns a different color and all the males, go oh she's fertile, and we ve now lost that gradual mugger she's willing to have sex in sex is likely to be reproductive and males are interested and when she's, not in Asturias, she's, not and have sex and males aren't interested because there's no point The thing is evolution for whatever, isn't in human beings has altered that programme and it has created long before there was birth control. It has created sex for pleasure, think on yeah yeah absolute that's a form, only guess we're, given anything because those markers aren't as identifiable, and Human women, even women, don't know when their fertile and so having sex outside of your fertile period is about sexual pleasure and sexual pleasure happens outside of this fertile period. So the question really
is. Why would evolution have done? Why would it have relaxed that parameter? And why would it you know it's one thing to hide extracts from males there's a reason that females might not want males to know when their fertile. The fact that its hidden from females is particularly interesting because what it does is it effectively protect women from having information that might arguably be a hazard to them right, How so well think about it? This way, to the extent that a woman knows the tree is fertile, shows no sign of it. A powerful man might be able to get that information, to the extent she doesn't know, there's no point in trying to get the information she doesn't have it. So that might be a protective mechanism. But what is I think clear is that tax for pleasure and the very nature of actually the physiological chemistry
that goes along with with oxytocin in and love and yak. Citizen on the female side is that this has to do with and that is that we know groom each other's hair anymore, right here, We have here brushes murderers, and I bet you do look at any group. Animal there's some money activities that are the sole goal of it is to keep it. Barnes Alive and to keep your alliances known him, but we don't really do that. We don't I but jokingly, but yeah chimps, groom each other all day long and that's just dumb telling him yeah, I'm with you, I'm bonded you right to do some of this stuff. It's not physical, but you know that when, as you know, when anthropologists have studied what human beings actually talk about a huge fraction of it, I'm going to hesitate to use the term gossip because of this kind of
in this way to say it, but people obsess about the details of the social interactions of the people around them, and now they upset about the social details of the lives of celebrities because he asked if they don't really detect that those people are actually on their circle. Yes, but but anyway, we do these kind of ritual things, but you know in a pair sex is a binding ritual. It happens Not only does it happen at times of the month when no child as can be produced, but it happens, you know after a child is born. born and though the? with this in mind, national lament area and she's, not gonna, be fertile for some time, because in an ancestral, circumstantially would have been able to produce another child and have it be viable. You know until the first one has as weaned, so we we have this mechanism, Evolution gave it to us is a gift and I don't think we treat it very well, No, I haven't in the past. I don't know
fly bene for eleven years. I think I've treated well, but there is definitely periods where I the mining were not there. I was not in search of bond now I was in surgeon regulating my internal emotions with an external pleasure. Do you think men? bond. In the same way, the female is doing now well says is where we were in the Marquis. They enterprising men do burned in the same way. That's the easy part of its ok Let's put it this way? Much about human sexuality and relationships can be much better understood. If you understand females historically have had one reproductive strategy and males have had to those two reproductive strategies and males
are perfectly capable of living together in the same man and functioning at once, so in females them. The reproductive strategy involves high investment, which typically involves bonding to a mate and both the mate and and the woman investing heavily in the offspring. Men have that mode and in fact it is almost certainly the most common mode by which men have succeeded in reproducing and when men are in that mindset they are actually not the same as women. There are distinctions in the way they see reproduction, but they are similar at the Yin Yang. I never a parallel, but men also have this other way of reproducing which involves by one mechanism or another fertilizing, a female in whose offspring they will not invest? Women cannot succeed in that in a historical context very easily, and in fact there is something special that happens and cultures where,
for whatever reason the pattern of mating obscures the eternity obscures. Who is the actual father, which is when the certainty of paternity drops below something like fifty percent males invest in the offspring of their sister this rather than the offspring that they have likely produced, because now, I'm sure down their sisters, offspring actually related to them, where they can't be sure that offspring that are ostensibly there's are really bears interesting. That's not. The mothers brothers phenomenon, but I do want to I want to bring one thing up to speed which may be is not abundantly clear, saw a woman either if she did not want to invest in her offspring. Minimally she's gonna carry the baby for nine months, so even at- even if she's immediately having the kid handing enough to a wet nurse and then becoming pregnant again. I think you said the record. All time record is sixty one woman heads sixty kids, and that also includes at that. The woman would have had to have had twins.
at times and what not so hey, twins and handed them all at its very best, a woman could produce sixty offspring carrying on her genetics and a man could either now or average man private have six three times a day. You know over the course of a year he could have a thousand kids multiply, thereby sixty years of fertility, verses twenty and you, look at how rewarded and animal would be that preceded that way. As far as just passing his genes on, he could pass on his genes. Ten thousand times in a woman at the best could pass them on sixty times, such as the math. That's the math, the the tricky part is very few males would have had the opportunity to honourably reproduce without committing to a female, because in the past no female would have consented to this right. To the extent that there is any mechanism and a culture too
Require evidence of commitment before producing offspring. These things are taken very seriously for a reason, which is that the prospects of the kid art of that much greater if there are to investing parents him in there really financially. So men are obsessed with the possibility of reproducing without commitment, because it such a bargain, not because it would ever have been common right in modern circumstance behaviour that feels like you. One is engaged in the sort of thing that might produce offspring, for which one is not going to be responsible, is so common that effectively. Men are behaving as if they are, You know that everybody is a sultan, producing lots of ASP right right. The chief, the chief, something that everybody is. You know it is some kind of hunger
running their seed everywhere, and you know that their genes are so desirable that no woman is going to try to pin them down the genes, within the area, which is just nonsense, but it damn like big rooms. Seamen have you heard the bigger the pick from pact aspect. Rye is fascinating with pesticide nobody maintains people offered him a million dollars for a sea member not that I am his mind. He is one of those big chief sultans people are dying just to have that genetic package, amazed that there are any of it. I think, there's I envy the competent besides call that's a sight all share yeah, I do feel compelled distant rock, as I'm sure you know this, there's there's enough. Hang attains its interesting is the females get raped
and somehow they don't really know. Maybe they do know since I learned about it, but they don't understand how the female is choosing who to become pregnant by, and it's not just through the sex act because they're having sex with people they don't want to, yet their seeming have offspring with the partners that have invested. Well, I don't see any reason that there should be a difficult mechanism to evolve does may we necessarily no exit How is, but you know. The figures are simple: chemical could be released ice right. All dynamical could be really with abort that and would yet realising all of whom are on over. So such a large fraction of implantation end up aborted anyway for natural processes will fit. Percent of all pregnancies in human self terminate roots running people really get brightened, yeah, which you know that, there's a lot of meaning in that and we have not dealt deeply there. I think we can say that
one of the mysteries about sexual reproduction is that it basically takes a half a genome, infuses it to another. if a genome and creates a totally novel combination of genes every time and that process is fraught with hazards. One of the hazards have to do man destruction, but there are lots of other ways in which something that is quite right can emerge from that and from the point of view of a woman who is going to invest nine months, unlikely five years likely DEC it's at one level or another. It may sense to take any project that isn't that does show every sign of being functional and ended and start over. It even makes sense from the point of view of the embryo that support it, because the sibling that will be produced that isn't a compromise in the same way, carries fifty percent on average a of the treaty.
in the abortive embryo. So basically everybody is on board with the idea that the only projects that are worth bringing to fruition are ones that show signs of having the potential to become functional, adopted and build a house on a cracked foundation, yeah right now stay to arm chair experts. There we are supported by quip my favorite electric tooth, hush. If you set the new year's goal of being good, I neer oral hygiene. There isn't a better companion and quit you just can't be messing around your oral health. Ok, you normally use in an old, tired, worn out skanky toothbrush air. Nelson. Got sonic vibrations in a lot of those Electra toothbrushes they're just to abrasive, but not quip. They got a built in
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so. Here's the here's, the the rub on the difference between males and females. In this regard, when female. So this is I'm speaking very generally and aims have again. This is a place where I wonder if I'm going to save the thing that others may to be driven into the sea anyway. The m the thing is: we know that females typically release oxytocin in response to sexy, though it is, you know there is basically a physiological obstacle to an exit dose in his generically called the love hormone right. it is a little bit of a cheat because in fact it sort of thee in group our group hormone alone is also it signals. This is persons in your in grew in your in group, but it also, you know, elevates the tribalism that defines who is not here
anyway to all of the protect for this egg weaken called the love. For me. That's the sweet way of thinking about, but the thing is in in males because of the function in the way males can reproduce males, as I mentioned have the same kind of interests in long term, binding relationship, that's most have where male reproduction has taken place for our ancestors had so males are looking for many of the same things that females are looking for in that relationship there. Looking for somebody who will go, the distance who you know is going to be a good parent who faced novel circumstances and be clever about what to do about them all those things. At the same time, males are looking for that. Looking to score
and because of that are free flats and that's a big for four years now, and so the thing is: if you dont know this, then you Know- let's say it was a woman might think. Well, men are very focused on sex So if I'm looking for a mate, then I'm going to go. Have sex that's going to get a male's attention and maybe it will blossom into a love relationship, but actually rushing to bed is going to inhibit that vert process, because males are aware on these two channels of sexual opportunities. There aware of opportunities that are long term investment opportunities and there aware of these sort of free ride, free ride, evolutionary bargain opportunities, and to the extent that somebody advertisers that they are an evolutionary bargain opportunity there, actually not a good may for the long term, because
those who s there can offer that opportunity to, and so to the extent that men are I'm not saying this is good. I'm saying this is what is to the extent that men are wired to fear huckleberry to fear there mate having sex with somebody else and an egg being further, as the main raising that offspring, as if it were their own being fooled into that situation. They are wired to be alert for behaviour that would put them in that jeopardy. So The thing is apparently- and I learned this from somebody else- I was at a conference in somebody- gave a talk turns out. There is actually a physiological underpinning to this and that males apparently use a different hormone and I've heard this, and I was about to ask you this, as I heard recently that when a man orgasms, he gets base almost the opposite of oxytocin. Well, he gets a get. The fuck out of their chemical is that
Is that what we started? The I'm? Not I'm not an expert on this, and I don't want to say more than I now ok go anywhere. I understand about this is that when sex happens too early in a relationship and inhibitory compound is released, I think it's fast. Suppressing prevents oxytocin from up taker. Well, no, it sends another signal which says this is a short term score. This is not a patent to invest via rat. Exactly so, you know again I'll just it really clearly I'm not seeing this is how it should be. The I am San makes sense to understand how things are, even if males look at this and they say I dont want to be there because, even under in the simplest way, ledges acknowledge as well. There is no man in LOS Angeles right now whose training it laid, whose thinking I got a spread. My genes.
you're not even aware of what the underpinning of this urge is with the bassist is so it doesn't even require your awareness for you to be acting on it absinthe at so it's tricky. I think, that's what very Harwood we're trying to assess our own behaviour beyond so self is, is we're getting signals that that we don't really know why their driving us here's. The question I don't understand why people have a hard time grasping that. Matter what else is true about sex, no matter what has been stacked on top of it, the the the foundational truth of sex is reproduced write them all of this other stuff, including sex for pleasure right, which has he in us before there was ever birth control, even that is built on top of a found if that had absolutely everything to do with the production of offspring I don't really understand. I mean to me, it looks like men are baby crazy
they deemed real. I arrived right, yeah, he's kind of IRA like yeah, it's out, but I mean it snowed staring us in the face. What're. You know men obsessed with about women's bodies, hearts that are involved in reproduction right. It's ignore a path to the ovaries. It's you know it milk glands. Maybe that does anybody miss that this is about reproduction and to the extent that we are gonna, come up that system for some other purpose. We still have to work around what was built for that sea. Now this is kind of, and this becomes you'd need be shocked at how often this is a recurring concept. not just in biology, but if we have an actor on here, we're talking about things and an eye. Please try to make this distinction. Alot, there's a big difference between an explanation excuse, and I want people to always think about that. Sometimes their hearing, an explanation, not an excuse, so just because we
explained the underpinnings of why I would act like an asshole is in no way a same. That's an excuse. Well go one step further! Please do and this is where I am definitely gonna lose a piece of your audience saga, especially alarming, more mostly only really, what's he actually yeah. Increasingly, this sort of logic is just not welcome anywhere, but It seems to me that we actually have an obligation to choose what sort of sexual creature we are going to be and that this has deep moral implications, that none of us are perfect at it, but that what had what the market has done to us by figuring
out how to hand us everything that we will by is. It has obscured our obligation to be deliberate and thoughtful about who we are, and so I dont does anything ever does anything good ever come from. lowering the bar to sack so that it is a non special casual activity. Is we because I have argued at different points in my life on different sides of it. So, yes, I could say you know what it's just a great physical activity. I've both people have their expectation, since correct their zero harm and why shouldn't two people? Have orgasm in the middle of the day and get their heart rate yet that it's totally beneficial sharers rewarding yeah. I now, though, can evaluate the overall health of my life when I behaved that way versus the overall health in my life now into my own anecdotal experiences or whatever benefits
was receiving from that cardiovascular activity in my ego and what not the long term result was that I have lower self esteem ironically, and now that don't live that way, I have generally increased self esteem. So just in my own experience, but only through having both sides of it, could I got alike? I can t tell you. I felt I feel better. This way, ok, but so you feel better this way, that This is something we all know why, but it's something, but the question is, you are interfering. When you engage in a kind of low stakes, sexual interaction that would not have existed in the past landscape, because women, just as men, fear being cock older women. fear being left to raise a child Landon being abandoned exactly that architecture that
structures. The way we see sexual opportunity is also tied up in the most important human relationships that we have to do. Extent that you interfere with the way you see sex with your eventual made by having a lot of random sex. That means exactly nothing. Is that a gamble worth taking? Is it a good idea so that that's really my question, I don't think you can separate completely you're low stake sexual encounters. from your eventual sexual self that participates in the partnership- and am I saying people should be free to decide. They dont want those partnership Now am I saying that anybody should tell you you can't have casual sex now, but deciding yourself whether or not it's a good idea with
all the knowledge as well right, given what you know it is connected to whom is it a good idea? The question genuinely dont, know the answer, but I do suspect that therein, good- know the answer and then also choose wrong, but every my preference that you knew the answer. So, if you one of abuse, alcohol. I happen to be sober. I came to find out for me wasn't good, but I want I'm gonna to have the full option to do that, but I also want them to have the full knowledge of what they are actually signing up for air, and I think that kind of his the way I would have like a Rotarian view of this society is like I am. I am totally coolby woman decisions at an ultimately or self destructive, but I will it would be my wish. Everyone knew what they were signing up for. What do you think Michael logically, women, even when their having casual sex, it's still about finding the partner finding investment, even though the
answers are low. It could be ok Were the ass I now Diana what I so first but by the way we already said at best you He had a seventy percent- more probably even that's high, so certainly we would agree with seven billion people in the world you're, not speaking for everyone, something really having sex. For other reasons, we can't even comprehends right that beans, as some people may be, having sex, they are listening? I hope you'll be all right. So. here. Here is what I am saying. This is based partially on evolutionary theory and what I think ought to be the case at its best. maybe even more on discussions with lots and lots of people and so on and building a model What is a matching up with what I think probably is likely to be true. Somewhere somewhere out of that emerges the picture. Yes, I think. Well, first, we must draw a distinction.
We all have a conscious self and that kind of self is more or less the person that we refer to. When we say I, and then there is a vast mysterious self that we don't have access to in some places we have a little access in some places. We have no access at all and that's actually most of us at the level of our arc. so? Can I just as I think I understand it does put concrete examples on it, so for the guy who's horny, the self, the eye, the conscious is horny, but the other unknown self is the genetics that have this whole programme to produce haughtiness in the conscious and that that conscious state is unaware of all that. Others. Yes, in fact all the conscious eight needs to know is your horny, and this is the kind of thing you're looking for. right, you just enough information seek commuted.
Direction right point, but you don't need too much. I mean you mean that this is in fact the answer to that. What we are talking about a second ago, which is that the guys aren't aware that they are trying to produce baby yeah because they want. Would it be helpful that doesn't make your horn, the analytical the warning, but what I do I think is true- is that the conscious mind of modern women often tells them? Something like you, Oh men have been pursuing casual sex forever and, to the extent that things are unfair to win. We want access to that. You and why shouldn't we have it right? Sex is pleasurable, so we want as much access to it as men have and then, when they take that idea, which is super, surely one year and they deployed they find it is not static. And I mean there is not
turn on every hundred women, who would say absolutely not the answer they satisfy, and who are you to tell me how to feel about their right yeah? I'm nobody tell how to feel about. On the other hand, do I hear again and again from women who have tested the high purposes that in fact, casual sex. Just isn't all that ray and that they are confused, At the weekend, unity with dating anecdotally. You only need to have a conversation with your wife about who her whole passes are because My wife's hall passes, which, by the way, bread theirs it so volume is right. Monica thousands of automatic,
for Christian, yet is making sure there is. You know I've been I've been cloistered in an academic environment. I feel now versus term a couple times. I know what it means, what ha ha ha ha passes. So you're married in your hall passes the one person you're allowed to have sex with, without causing any merit all parties over most people at his we're, never gonna run into Bradley at elaborating its generally celebrity. So it's like a married couple, Wisconsin the wives of look on. If I ever me, Brad Pitt an elevator, my husband goes bureau go ahead and do that if you should run into Brad Pitt. I want you to go out and have that I get it so my wise hall passes. I would challenge any algorithm to model what she's after it couldn't be discovered. Peter Dingley, Did you watch game of neurons yeah, that's one of her number ones and then I'm going choice of it, gonna have a whole about showing within. On the other hand, it's it's tee, I the hip hop artist
and then, on the other, that Vincent in Austria, there is no common tissue between any these people which to me, if you s if you ask my hope, ices what you're going to discover in short order is there are a big ass in dark skin in Uganda. Up I can predict what his all passes, but I mean to me That's so telling that in of itself is very telling of what she desires, verses. What I desire and should be the first amid this. She wants the approval of this person who she has deemed have inequality. She admires, but first I have the perfect example of what we were talking about about where For your empathy goes along. You will understand. Christiana really. Well, that's a point at which she, the total. Mr Dupuis, I can predict yeah lights in keeping with this, because those people on her list, our people that she likes to spend time where and would invest where it is all this. It is. These things essentially be are now granite again another
a ton of women out there that their hope has his are Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp unit, which is not do so. I get it, but just my anecdotal situation, its view, a glaring between my wife and I, this difference so crazy quest let us hope: ass, yeah lily, you gonna, get that legal terms correctly presented your wife actually pursuing. this entire landscape. surrounding monogamy, a mental landscape that dont know well and just like marriage has gotten a terrible rap that does not actually match the actual experience of a good marriage at all. Our understanding of how monogamy works is there's no place. You can go to find out, what the truth of monogamy is made it a little bit like sixty the mythology is so off that we just don't have a good source of information, which means, everybody is sort of on their own to discover
reality and then once having discovered it. I can't talk about it because it's at odds with what post box and have been imprisoned by religion, in my mind, at least where I grew up it. If it has a religious connotation to it, there definitely and religion is free, we had a logically dishonest about India. because of that it's like. Ok, we have this iconic thing which isn't right and no middle ground between that and a belief that it's actually a kind of affection than something imposed beyond, in the world by people who knew no powers, they wanted wag fingers rather than something else, but in fact it is not true that monogamy is the human mating system, but it is that monogamy is a human mating system and that it is a product of evolution where it happened. So that raises questions about why evolution would ever built. That's us will enhance the logically speaking
far more data, supporting that it is the more when anomaly farce, when you look at hunting and gathering societies, which we spent the bulk of our time being its very rare and their well. Again as a great example of something we were talking about earlier, which is if you think that the evolutionary nature of a human being is all in the hardware side, then you're right at the level of the hardware, human, the vast majority of Hunter gather cultures, which is the vast majority of the time that human beings have existed, were not monogamous network, wildly religionist either right, but they were not monogamous and on the other hand, if you look at the vast majority of people on earth today they belong to cultures that are at least nominally monogamous now have to say
no monogamous culture, that's actually perfectly monogamous and there's no creature that we have studied. Yet. As far as I'm aware, when we say a creature is monogamous, what we mean is that have a high degree of monogamy, not that there's perfectly monogamous creatures anywhere. We look, but if we make those allowances, monogamy does exist and it is not an accident. I would argue that it is a feature of the cultures to which most of us belong right. Modernity. Has fostered the spread of monogamy and it's not? Incidentally, I would argue that the reason that modernity, has favoured Monogamy has to do with the difference between.
The way evolution works in what we would call zero some circumstances where a population is growing and non zero sum circumstances where a population is expanding and the thing had happened in the last phase of history is a massive expansion in the human population, including many of the the ancient populations discovered new continents, and in answer we're talking about everything here from people from Asia having migrated into the new world, something like thirteen to fifteen thousand years ago through the bearing straight, but the basic fact of expansion actually favours cultures that made monotonously and the reason is a subtle one. We tend to think of politeness cultures
what might be called polygamous cultures in humans, but polygyny sculptures as may be more sexual. But it's not the case. The thing about monogamy is that it provides mating opportunities for every able adult, both male and female, because everybody's pairing off and because the numbers of males and females but are born, tend to be similar. A monogamous culture. Brings all adults into child rearing, when that does is it allows a population to grow at the maximum rate after population is growing that parameters and favoured. But if you population is expanding into a new territory than how rapidly it can expand across the territory made dictate how much of that territory it ends up with anyway we have a monogamous programme, it isn't the default for humans, but it is encoded
on this cultural side rather than on the hardware side widening incurred when the cultural side, because there are things that can happen, that would cause another system to be advantageous. In other words, every expanding population runs into a limit at some point, at which point the mating system might change, which might be. Exactly what we are seeing right now, there's no new landmass to discover, and lo and behold we have a whole lot of cereal monogamy by powerful males The syrian monogamy isn't really monogamy at all. It's cereal polygyny right. So the point is: that's what she would predict. You predict a breakdown of monogamy and the re evolution of religion, that's a very dangerous fact for society, but nonetheless, let's call it what it is so. In essence the question really is: what's that It's a monogamy. Can we read it worked, discuss it or anything so that people have at least good data to go on
allows them to choose whether or not to engage in experiments with something else, and I don't know the answer, but air when this brings me to the right kind of global thing. I hoped we would talk about that some mom fascinated with which is there are certain elements of r r firmware hardware that we seem to be aware of his society that we accepted right part of our hard wiring. I think it's underestimated. All the time is being a group animal. I think, you have a dog now. If I could use an analogy, people seem to really get that dogs are group. Animals in that dogs have alphas and betas and gammas and Zetas, and they will they will behave pretty predictably, based and our desire to please and alpha We see that in practice all the time when we train them. I think people more generally unaware of their own obsession with status with alpha with Gamble beta
and their driven by it so much in its it. I see it as a very, very destructive force and I just want to talk about kind of how we evolved will. Things you can count on with a group animal evolution in how we ve we ve broken out of that parents. I mean we're paying kind of a heavy price, and already twenty things have come up about that, so one of immunity brought up with our brains now how to come talking to a hundred people, a brains. Dont know how to cook you're talking to one million people, one of things, of all the time is right I ve been groups, let's just say generally, but about a hundred people are so if you go out with a hundred people, you're gonna, be the best at one thing, your dear destined to be the step. One thing in your ear, broadly destined to derive a lotta self esteem. From that one thing you can make arrow tips better than any one else, so you can shoot, but whatever that thing is
if we now live in this community, really that seven billion people, if you're on Facebook you have access in, you will never be the best at anything. You won't even be in the top ten percent of anything and in that them two anguish that creates an anxiety in the many different kind of I think pandemic mental health issues. We deal with are really, I think, and our growth of us being designed to live with a hundred people were living with seven billion people in so just if you could tell us just in a very broad strokes, difference between being a solitary animal and in a group animal well. Is it such a huge difference? as you know, we are theirs, as, as you know, there is a saying in anthropology alone, baboons a dead Babylon, which is really a statement about people.
More than ever, the idea has we're so thoroughly pendant on our social structure, trust even for basic survival. That to think of us as independent entities is, is a mistake, and you know, if you think about it, is virtually impossible for any human being to survive in any natural habitat on earth alone. That's gonna sound wrong, because you can imagine well locator habitats, where I could the fish alone. On the other hand, how much of your fishing is predicated on the fact that you ve got somebody doing metallurgy to make hooks or, if not, gonna, use hooks, that somebody's making motto filament line and if you're not gonna use line? So anyway, would I taught a class once one of my favorites actually called lights out, the premise of the class was
that's what, if civilization stopped running and suddenly you are not alone, but group with people had to boot, strap just basic survival skills eat sleep during water right, an how quickly. You discover just how difficult these things are. In fact, I had a policy in the class that anybody who, by the end of the ten weeks, could start a fire with only materials that they had come up with in nature, would get full upper division. Credit And a glowing evaluation, a heart and nobody did have using the show, naked and afraid I am in another a lot of issues I haven't seen. There is one goal: negative radio you ve gotta watch it because it is absolutely laughable, even my own assessment, of how I would do got shattered by watching people who are even survivalist like right, train, they do them somewhere naked and they're. Just two of them
I needed to bring one thing and just finding water, just You underestimate the necessity of just clean water that could be a twenty hour day job. So it's a huge infect, my first assignment in that class. I brought my students out into the woods and I was like okay, you need to bring A small amount of water to this location and you can't use any modern tech and it's like suddenly the vow You have a bucket basically forget that practically free throwing away like you know, people, let me they were clever yet to find a gourd, gotta find it. Well I mean, if you look at you know the come. For example, you will find them using ostrich eggs to transport water. That's weird, but no that isn't weird at all, because that thing or stomach lining rise are actually yeah, and you know you, you do figure out these things. There are things in nature, but we have a very off sense of how easy it is to
ah the idea so anyway, the point is you. You're very existence assumes partnership. with people who you may never meet, who have done some job or they ve innovated. Something I mean you know too, to Flint map a stone to make it sharp enough to be an arrow point is not an easy thing to learn, but one somebody's learn that they can transmit the promotional pretty effect effectively make you miss school failures that class it has even when he says I had I like his teaching analyzer students. All thing is my teaching life Heather and I were taken at Evergreen him. Everything was so different in terms of what it allowed us to do and what it facilitated It was paradise. That's up in Oregon, it's in Washington, Owen, Wachovia. Ok, yeah, so you had access to going outside with the well. I mean a key to it was a noble, He was in a position like officially. Nobody was an obsession to tell us what the teacher heritage we could. Literally,
allowing the rule book and yet somehow other way which and I both did and the other key to it was our students took one class some time? Oh wow, one class at times. But the point is, when I say my students, these were people I knew well yeah. So you know, every person was a course load was one class that one sixteen credit class and you know it could be taught you couldn't as Heather and I talked together. Sometimes we took a class to Ecuador for eleven weeks. Why a year long class. You want for eleven weeks. Tat would have traveled around but anyway, that kind of high level of contact between professor and student allows you to teach to every which were in the room and so get together, and I got good at delivering staff at the front of the room, but watching each person in the room, and you know you- you knew
Somebody well enough to know how a particular idea was gonna land on them and you could tailor it and if it didn't land, you could figure out. Why didn't that hit? And anyway, it was a marvellous and anyway I do miss it, that's what we were withdrawing my status in group animals, and so I think a couple things are going on one. We are thoroughly group animals and we are living at a scale in which the groups that we evolve to understand it makes sense, and there are, of course, some famous things about this, like Dunbar's number, which is ostensibly the number of individual identities. You can carefully track, which has a low number compared to the number of people that we actually doing counter accurate Dunbar's number actually is, but the concept has to be right right. We're just now
for this the new we have a capacity right. But even worse, is we have all of these technologies, which we are not our conscious. Mind understands how we are being given bad data, but I dont think most of us get and I think we can actually prove that most of us dozen, get it. So, for example, you have a box on the wall, you're living room, and it should photo realistic. Moving pictures of people who you actually know who they are right and you can know things about their life and you can look into what looks like their living room and here's the thing. A hundred years ago, if you, look through a window and you saw somebody's living room, it was actually an indication of something that you could evaluate, because that living room was near near enough for you for photons to be bouncing off it and going into your eyes So that means let's take as an example,
human beings are focused on relative success, so we know from careful sociological work that people feel much less good about some level of success. If somebody they know by comparison right, there not focused on the absolute level of buying power. There focused on the relative level Power seems extremely petty the optimism, but it's not if you think about an ancestor, early, primitive, an environment, well. Let's say that you are farming and your neighbour is forming a similar peace, a territory across the fence, but their harvesting twice as much right well now you know something something in this environment that I'm getting wrong. I'm leaving corn on the table somehow because they're doing something I'm not doing so being obsessed with what there they ve got that I don't
feeling bad about it enough to be motivated to figure out what they might be doing, that I am not doing that's a route to success. Maybe I can figure out if that guy has a wheel. and his wheel is allowing him to invest the same amount of effort and get a much higher yield. Then I'm gonna noticed that that will exist on the think. I need one of us make one right now the super beneficial soup, for a time. The super logical, Now what happens when you stick their ball on? I mean that box on the wall of your living room. Now looking at living rooms that a don't even exist right, rowdy shows what to show you neo. Hence EMA people picked out the curtains. Then, when he met people picked out the curtains, and maybe they did it, because your wired to be obsessed with somebody is succeeding. Bay also had twelve approaches. Twelve attempts at that I love your hearing. Them say right, so it's perfect, the time you here in your discounting the like a. Why aren't I that witty in real life? Well, if you it
of runs at twelve runs that's right. We can't compete now. So that puts us in a bind that were not actually in. The people were actually we're not even in competition with the people who live next door to us, the actual people who live next door to us, because maybe we're different industry than they are, and so People are really a relevant to our calculation, but nonetheless reprocessing the data of who they are and what their about. So my point would be this is so novel that we're just confused about what the process and reprocessing data that makes us act in a completely arbitrary fashion right. We could be potentially much happier where we are we could be more successful because we would figure out what it is. We should focus on what we could ignore, but this doesn't happen because, no but he sat down at some point and said: look you're, a modern human. The problem for modern humans is novelty. You're gonna face all kinds of things for which there miss wired the and you need to know how to ignore them be great to be,
process, the right data throughout the data that are relevant while another one and you brought it up in there's somebody these things where I get very judgmental of and then start really really thinking them through. So one of them is gossip and eyes, sometimes it by my perspective and the victim of gossip, because I'm one of the people on your tv. So I'm now trembling of other people's God. Yes- and I am, I find gossip repugnant or repellent a knife, and I have a judgment that it's a moral failing, but there actually learn. In answer of the the utility of gas, I've been here is how it works. Hunting and gathering societies were very egalitarian they were not prone to dictatorship. And the reason they weren't prompted dictatorship is that if enough people started talking about the lead, the chief and the chief was kind of exploiting people and not enough, and that in the benefits weren't there and they were taking more than they were giving gossip serve the purpose
forming a coalition. Now one chief might be the strongest but he's not stronger than for other people decided. He has male intention in that gossip could have saved the whole group right that there is at hand such a fundamental purpose and I Then I go. Oh, it's! No one's fall, we're gonna, hard wired to gossip. It's like episode of the weeds and I'm a little more sympathetic to the desire, and I have it I loved talking about other people I once they may What to do wrong. I can't resist it It helps me be a little less angry at myself to and arrogance of this I'm inclined to do this well mean. This is why I said I was uncomfortably using the term gossip is that I think it dismisses something important, but when people gossip about you, you're famous you and your wife, because you both families. The reason that we are obsessed is not relevant right.
But you guys do and don't do is not a factor in the lives of those people. Gossiping because they're not processing hey. This is not productive gossip, you know it just fun yeah they do it, and so somehow being becoming aware of where we ve run a foul of some piece of novelty: and where we're doing something that makes no sense or even destructive, just becoming because of it lets you navigated better, which is why I think I'm gonna go back the past year and will you I know we really energies upset. You can use it for years to quell the way your wife has hope ass. She hasn't told you she decided in her head. If she there's one person she met on an elevator in Beijing. She already knows her whole past, I think, is Peter. Have you been, shall define Kristen building it so he used here is the question.
I suspect that the whole pass thing. So let me just ask your question: I want the real answer: you're gonna get it if you now yeah if he ran into your heart pass and they were willing to do it well, so which obviously unique about us in the hall past situation as we are gonna see, Brad Pitt elevator. I have seen him this year, not on an elevator, but I see him solely. The hall Pascal for us has to be way more its higher step just more fun like I do think. If we, Don't look d Michigan and I did see Jennifer Lopez on elevator is she join me. I would because this gimme a once in a lifetime thing around. I take it, but but I No very we're position were most of my whole passes. I'm I meet up with occasionally or I may end up even plain a love interest, so it a daisy game in our household desolately that you Hollywood,
types do have the thing, which is that the script sometimes calls for stuff that your spouse have to deal with the right up. Ok, so Let's SAM, illustrate that the more difficult way impact for a guy so Kristen runs into her whole pass. She takes him up, How are you with that? I'm totally go with it I'll, tell you: why can this is Superman? I mention all, but this is where we're at so my first. Jim Girlfriend was a five year she lived in Michigan, I lived in a way we were both eighteen through twenty three. The reality of being that age. We had to open it up. or maybe you didn't have to, but we chose do. We chose to open it up and we had a power. See kind of like what I don't know. I don't care about making illusion at the end of that relationship was it had had zero impact and how much she was in love with me, or vice versa. In my experience,
I've had a nine year open relationship and we lived together and in practice it was more theoretical. It was hey, I'm twenty three years twenty two I'd like to be with you forever. I can't see, is getting through the next fifteen years, be monotonous. I just looking at the data, I would say I don't think it's gonna and I wouldn't want to lose you over. That could actually love. You want to be with you, so in that case we lived together. We were together every night, but I wasn't always with her. She wasn't always with me. Things definitely happen over that nine years again, You did not see a reduction and how in love she was with me or vice versa. Now it did have an impact, I believe, on our sex life, because I do think the sexual component of relationship is the very hardest to keep healthy. and requires so much vulnerability. That's the hardest thing for us to do so. I do think we need
it's that hard and you have an option that doesn't require any of that work. You're gonna take the option that doesn't require in you're gonna delay dealing with those issues. All people in relationships deal was so I do think it was destructive in that respect, but all that told when I did surmise after fourteen years Is it being an open relationships? Is I don't? I don't subscribed to the family you can't be very in love with someone committed to them and be therefore them. I also think that our priority list and relationship is a little weird. I think a lot of people have partners that are, they have to say, in for them. They are bad partners there, not good dad's there, out with their friends all the time right, biology on my list there a shitty partner and not be a deal breaker yet just cause. not fucking, someone else, that's that that math to them makes the one thing that person can't do it. I m still
good partners fuck someone else now. If you gave me the option criminal be aware, therefore mother, do your kids should be home. Every night show all your needs and she's fucking someone- and I don't know about it- I'm picking that over she never fucks anyone, but she did really listen to me, she not really mean my needs. So I I personally and an eye not prescribe. this anybody, but priorities are not fidelity. That to me is not what's important about this partnership her being a great mother. Isn't it that's everything Do you know her meeting my needs? That's everything! So I have a unique perspective on it. I really don't care if she fucks someone, I never knew about it. I care of my needs are met yeah, that's that's unique forgot, Evolutionary you would expect that pasture to be more likely for a woman and then I would be more sensitive about emotional infidelity- right, where the rule, by the way, I am more threatened by my wife. Did my in her boss,
but you won't talk about where my jealousy comes up. It doesn't come up in someone in by the way this all rooted in people's, and no one really likes to think about this that's all rooted in your own personal insecurities, I'm not evolve. now, for my wife, I'm not is empathetic as she would like. I dont commit to charities like she does her boss. is all those things she idolizes the way he moved to the world. That is far more threatening to me interesting so rooted in your fears? I think well it is rooted in your fears, accept that there are an economical fears for men and for women, and it sounds like you are exception? for whatever developmental reason, I concede so. Here's the your thing now, here's a bracket were I'd. I could listen to someone describe man and how their jealous- and I like it- I could raise a big stink on lining. Go not me, but I
be me and recognise. Yes, the trend moves towards that, and I have many friends who would choose. This is a game I play at my house at a dinner parties, you're up Gene is one of these two things, your partner dry. I'm your children very drunk somewhere, picked them up from school. what are my children drunk on sugar? As always, you choose that I'd. One of these two things is gonna happen either your husband is gonna drive your kids, heavily intoxicated home from school or Europe I'm gonna get a hand job in Atlanta on business and in it judgment free zone where I buy. I've foster that shocked, to learn that many people would pick their there there. Their husband endanger their child's life over get a hand job in Atlanta and I think, there's a hiccup in logic there there is, although
I also wonder about the set up of your experiment, because there is the question you out an experiment, like its official leave out of thought, experiment that qualify, but The problem is that in asking that question you Also listening and advertisements of value from somebody who is actually in a live fire exercise with their mate. So in other words, to the extent Let us say that you were asked this question the end. You know that you're, being okay with your maid driving, your kids in a very drunk state, is not likely to happen because your mate Put you kids endanger, so there's no value in turning up the penalty on that one, because there's plenty a penalty already, but you don't want mate messing around and thinking you're, ok with it so you have to advertise something: none the penalties for it. So the question
Can you get good data on what people actually think and in fact many people have pursued data on what people are threatened by and it's very interesting. So you know, for example, not surprisingly, men are most threatened by virginal sacks sex by infidelity that involves virginal sex and other kinds of sex. There must much less threatened by will. Why would that be? Because no other kind of this is going to produce a baby that they and appraising under false pretences. Now that is interesting, and I do you, you can stay mom on this cozier and academic, and you don't want any part of the statement I meant to say, but I would be curious if, given the option for men, if they would rather had their their wife, had anal sex with a guy, vaginal sex, I have to say they prefer they had vegetal sex I bet she'd, be wrong relay because there is a meme trees. That's I'm so
a glaring at em. You don't know you can bail out at any event whenever possible too embarrassed, but I dont want to speak about. things I read and then go back after the podcasting realise I'd, Miss remembered something buggy. My memory is that there is good data about how much trouble is produced in a relationship by stranger rape it is fashionable versus anal and is much less troubling to a relationship if it is not appropriate alarm enter interesting. Also whether a condom was Zia sewed up again. None of these are surprising from an evolutionary point of view right ram, so anyway, I do think, there's landscape, it's asymmetrical, but it's also interpret of all yours. Situation sounds unique,
maybe anomalous, Sir Hollywood people or because I think my own just passed in again my own fear. I was gonna hypothesize that the whole pass phenomenon which apparently I've never been your new does your discussion, but Monica we gonna do something new to, whereas that area, but I was going to argue that it plays a key role It is not exactly what's on the brochure. No, I find Well, you know with Heather and me we joke about issues of fidelity region. About whether the kids are actually mine share and that this is actually a kind of a binding ritual. The point is that sort of evidence of security at evidence is that we both get that there's a it's a safe way to be vulnerable. It's a safe way to be vulnerable to you now to check in that territory asking everything's cool that kind of thing. And you know I answered I just that it from never reason. I think it makes us stronger as a couple
pending that this issue isn't in existence is a vulnerability right, because who knows what emerging that space that you're not talking about, but to the extent that is sort of out in the open. so anyway. The hypothesis was that hall passes some sort of a formalization of a game that isn't really about anybody actually having licence that they would use. But it is about a sort of pressure. Release saw high like us, even knowing that your mate that acknowledging we're both aware that we have attractions outside of our pair bond and that that in principle as a threat, and that we could we're we're we're cool for each other. We could formalize some sort of a discussion around that and so The question is how often these whole passes actually used, and how often is it actually functioning in some made. It doesn't have anything to do with people going about with a bright. I mean never the boy never anything there here, although I do wonder of nearly every woman Brad Pitt bumps into these
Ro Ro Liza Hybrid, have entities as these bizarre reality that, like everywhere, your goes. Fifty fifty share everyone's hall backs earlier of fun conundrum. Well, I mean, but I also think there's something boy. This is. We have not talked about this there's also something to the question of who you're allowed to fantasize, about which most people, I think would say you know. What's between your ears, those whose business is it what's your fantasizing about, and I actually think this is just wrong because I suspect you think about the way sexual fantasy actually works. It's more regimented than you Imagine right! Your brain has rules for itself and any those rules are about something. My conjecture would be it actually fantasizing about somebody who's. Actually, someone you could end up going to bed with increases the likely
but that will happen to get real real with you when I masturbate, which is increasingly infrequent witches that's a side note of getting older, but when I do it, this is why I don't Joy pornography as well is. I need there to be some plausibility to the fantasy or just doesn't work. I will never yeah. I would never masturbate to someone in a magazine, lingerie thing because the ages, I can't work up a plausible fantasy. I have to believe that it could happen or our to work so your brain is actually testing out things that oh audibly result in reproduction, yes right in, like an attic, I'm working through insane steps, by which I could end up in a situation like there's so much, foundation laid before I get to the sex part of fancies iguana. I went in to that restaurant where she works, and then I said this in others. I need this
the preamble for it to be plausible in my head. He wondered if this is what the The song is short skirt. Long jacket is about I don't know that this a cake side guys describing some women are needed too. You know they meet. Accidently, yes, Did he bank, when she borrows his pen and yet so clearly detail? And it's not metaphorically, that's a very much at the very would like male fantasy, which is to say it's not a free for all its about stuff that can happen and that that support so to the extent that it is good to have people impair bonds that our secure, maybe it's also good too, who have people believe that their? fantasy life is. Nobody else is business at one level, its nobody s business. On the other hand, do you have responsibilities to you? No boy. I believe you do
You have responsibility. I do. I believe that things become pathologies when their secrets, because it's good to check in with people to get outside perspective, I think there's a book called on killing and he makes his parallel between our obsession with killing on television being relate to us, no longer processing animals ourselves no longer bearing grandma. am I in the back yard or watching them die, because we have our first hand experience with it. We are now obsessed with it. We ve been, we ve been separated from it and he makes the parallel that you can kind of track sexual path oh geez back to when we start living in the same room with one another cause as a child. You heard mom and dad have sex. You heard an uncle have sex. You had a lot of familiarity with sex, but the time you were ready to have tax actual sex, yes actual set. What that noise is now is a total.
fictional landscape, in which porn is teaching people how sex happens and porn is designed around. I'm getting you to buy something, so it is giving a com. He'll be misleading. Yes, they say when you start separating kids into their own bedroom and they have no first hand, interaction with sacks their left to fill in the blanks and, again, that's why you need to check in saying I feel that these profits and then someone else goes well. I tried that once with a woman, and she did not enjoy that. You know like you need those chickens. I think they're healthy yeah there our healthy and we haven't. You know there's no As far as I am aware, there is no good guidance for somebody who is trying to navigate this and figure out. What they shouldn't shouldn't be doing. There is nowhere to go the totally it's a terrible
tat you if you do a search, clearly there's some sites that would be productive but they'll be on the eighty five page of Google. Rather forty, you get through all the exactly stuff for sale of a high dollar stuff will have gotten your attention long before you figure out who might be worth listening to be ass. You, you have a concept that I believe you coin the phrase and it's called the metaphorical truth, and I want to see if I can get it to couple a little bit with broader things that are happening on the debates that are happening in your involved in a lot of em. In your breath, your brother, Eric, is, golden lot of em, same Harris's involving some of them, Jordan, Peterson's, involving that some of them and I find myself straddling the two worlds, or at least that, as I understand them ray, I find myself getting very intact. Located by the thoughts and viewpoints and would speak
called the intellectual dark web and then I go home, and I check in with my wife- and I think my wife emotional genius to her and she pokes good holes and stuff, and I find that, were We have a little bit of a binary option between no facts in all facts, and I dont think the truth is in in there and they give the simplest example without getting blood, because we don't do that on the show. We try to avoid it this She was building a wall. The left's defence of it is to point out the logic of how ineffective a wall would be, and that's the full brunt of the defence of. Why We should have one and I'm sitting over here. Thinking you're still fail. to address the emotional trauma that is the leading people to want a warm first place, you're, hitting them with facts about the pregnant, the of a wall
and not addressing what are people feeling in this country that that seems like a great option. What's the emotional thing that's happening in, how do we treat emotions and how do we acknowledge that we are not, chemistry set were not predictable. These things we ve just laid out the interest All of that is that, quite often, facts are only part of it in its its feel sacrilegious on either side to say that. But I really like your thing about metaphorical truth and explain that to us sure metaphorical. Truth is a concept. I came up with the solve a problem, which is that it is clear that religious belief in particular, is producing? It is driving a tremendous amount of human behaviour at least historically, and a lot of expense is, is spent on it right, elaborate buildings, rituals, time taken away from productive activities are spent.
on these belief, structures and the belief structures. I think we can say they just aren't an accurate description of the universe. Many of them are unforeseen I will, but they're just isn't any evidence for the things that are described in these religious texts, but these texts cannot be nonsense. because if they were nonsense than those who simply didn't believe them would have a massive advantage because they weren't spending all of that on buildings and rituals and time taken out of their schedule. So the fact that these back or faces an offer All of these most amazing phenomena, all of those things would be nothing but a vulnerability if these things, which is purely not true, so if they're not true at a factual level, what are they
Well. The answer, I believe, has to be that they are functional beliefs, which is to say, if you act as if they are true, you come out ahead as you headed, where you would, if you act according to the fact that they are false, so they are, when I said in class, has literally false but metaphorically true, metaphorically true just means it's a belief that provides you an advantage and the nice thing about this is it's a continuum? You know the degree to which something's a factual description and the degree to which its functional, but not factual, can be slid all over the map, jar, but all we need to know is that for a believed it for an expensive belief to travel through history with some population over a long period of time. It must be paying its way. Somehow. right, and so that means we are now justified at looking at those traditions and saying well. What's what, for?
you might have been serving, and is that still relevant to us or isn't? It is not something that still valuable to us. Maybe it something we can afford to jettison, or maybe it something we have to replace what something that's functional in our circumstances. So That's the basic architecture that it is in the binary between fact in fiction. There's some The intermediate which is a functional affection. Basically- and so
I think your wall example is an excellent one and a bunch of different levels. I believe Trump played on the fact that there are lurking sympathies. There are fears of the other. There are fears of people flooding over the border and taking opportunities and irrespective of what the reality is about, whether or not on average immigrants coming across that border having a positive or negative effect on the culture, the fears are very real there. Very ancient phobia is not a good thing, but I would argue it isn't evolved thing and we all carry that programme and the question is: can we successfully unhook it? Can we build an immigration policy that is not built on a facile fiction of immigrants? Good immigrants
bad right. Maybe one of those things is true cried, but the fact that the wall has become the issue that it is is all about the question of our internal fears, which are not being addressed by the technical question. Much as you as you argue and as you point out, and I think it really an excellent point- that debate rings hollow because it focuses on a factual level that is at best a part of the equation and so yeah. I hear so much on that side of the isle of this stripe or it's like they are talking to themselves. right. It was a matter of making a point to other people who are, I agree with them, rather than engaging what's actually in front of them, and it certainly no way to navigate policy. We are often juggling one two three ideals were actively trying to
service, three ideals that are often contradictory even in our constitution, we have equality, we have liberty and these things are often mutually exclusive. Yet we value both in what we failed to recognize is at best We will have the pendulum somewhere. We The majority raise with We will never have all liberty, we ll, never have all equality ends though just starting the that the conversation with look we're all gonna have to give a bit? We both want both these things to be thriving it. We know they can't both be thriving in four people, people, are so drawn to decide Agnes. This is one of the things people loved about Donald Trump is things were quite black and white for him. M M in theirs comfort- that decisiveness theirs. lot of unease in some weird compromises at sixty percent of quality. Forty percent liberty- that's uncomfortable for us.
But I think we're gonna have to learn to explore that more and in think of, That is a sound work in a live in is making any sense, oh yeah, and that this is actually one of my favorite points, because I think this actually something very hopeful at the end of it, which is, if you get to the stage of having an adult on relation which were having trouble with it. Public, but privately, it's possible. Where you do say hey, you know what it's not the liberty and equality cannot both thrive. They actually can. What you can't do is maximizing one right any time you try to maximize a single parameter every other now you have a crash as a result, so anybody who's got a one parameter. Objective can't be allowed near the levers of power, but once you accept that- and you say, look I
really like liberty, but I'm not ready to surrender on equality. What, if you could have eighty percent of both, but she had to accept you weren't gonna, get perfection in either case that you can probably do it's in the nature of diminishing returns and so What we really have is a complex, dynamic system. Complex dynamic systems are always about tensions between competing values in this is how your body works. Your temperature is maintained by something that looks out for being too into cold and is constantly pushing parameters around that you're, not even aware of, and we have to have a body politic that works. That way, and in fact I think this one of these places, where we ve inherited a structure from the eighteenth century which made sense. Then it was about as good as you could do and really I can hardly fault the founding fathers for how far sighted
They were. They did a great job, it's incredible, but there's no way they could have foreseen this world and so it as much as we can honour what they were attempting to do and what they actually accomplished. It's time for us to figure out how to ride out it extract the values that they help to add to them, where they didn't quite get it and to build a structure that is capable of protecting those things in the twenty first three and it's not gonna- be done with a pendulum swinging back and forth way too much carnage in that process has to be done more like the way a body is regulated where there's a thermostat like control that navigates between competing parameters and allows you to say: well, you know what actually we got the balance wrong. We didn't get enough liberty. We were too focused on equality and move the slide or that way, or you know what we don't get enough equality, we had much too much liberty and too many people got frozen out. move the slide or back and then have the thing function to her
Thus some desirable compromised and acknowledge that as culture evolves, as it always will do and will never stop, we will never reach the finish line. That is going to be forever sliding We are going to be required to the end of time to constantly recalibrate. as new information arises and we can't veer these tax. The way we do as if, but it just to me it points out, are predilection towards religion, Alpha's the whole good thing, it's kind of all present in r r r r obsession with that doc. This is I mean it actually again. I see a lot of hope because I see the conversation that needs to happen breaking out in you have SAM Harrison, Jordan Pearson talking about the nature of truth in what emerges in that conversation is the fact that you know what you can't dismiss all of this.
Ancient mythology. It's really important. On the other hand, there, not only no indication that it is timeless. There is no way it could possibly be timeless. Constitution is the same way, and you know if you think otherwise, you know check in with is the third amendment that protects us from soldiers being quartered in our houses That turns out not to be as big an issue, as has it was made out to be. You know, arise of giant issue at the time, but the point is not a timeless document the right and there's evidence of it right there and not just their obviously that he says you know so and by the way, those guys, recognize that it would have to be amended. That's why it was created in them in a manner that allowed for change right, and I think, unfortunately, what they didn't count on was that it would be mistaken as a religious text.
And so that the caution around amending it has been too great. Yes, and it's not even clear at this point- you can amend yourself to a stable fix. It may be just to rickety relative to the problems that it faces, but you know it's been said by Many people they'd be shocked at how little we had altered that doctor. In light of the youngest. There is because you see John Adams going like really guys and not the EU, or is it at that? yeah, it's incredible Will you are such a pleasure to talk to you in we? I honestly think we got till one of twenty six things. I had written down. I want to talk to you. I really hope you'll come back and about you and I'm very encouraged by you, because you You do to me and this is something that can be measured- a quantified are tested, but something weird about feeling someone's intentions. You know, that's why
tensions, are relevant these conversations, especially in these you see conversations were things happen that ever greener here their peoples into we want to say: it's not relevant it's relevant, but I can feel you you being a force of good and I'm I'm just so excited. You came and talked to us and I could have done this for six hours, so hopefully he'll come back I would love to you of a book out anything right now that we can promote I'm workin on a book and a couple of big projects, but I got nothing to announce but damn can't find me on twitter plea and yet they can find them. What your daughter hammer at Bernstein at brought, Weinstein's, How are we deciding whether we say wine, Steiner Wednesday? That's actually relatively easy, because wine Stein is correct or wine plan has been compromised by behaviour, so yeah. Suddenly wine Stein and you know it it. It's a German.
it has a meaning, and so there is a correct balance. Ok, its Weinstein's Weinstein's I'd, say you're at Brett, Weinstein's won. T you up! you're, not an instagram arms round. I am on Instagram, and is it the same at uninterrupted, really good question? I dont remember, I think, if you plug in my name, it will come up in the search. Ok right, now, while we love, you thinks we're going so great. This was awesome. and now my favorite part of the show the fact check, with my soul, made Monica Batman on a girl Monica Monica hey, my look, body is ailing. Not a little bit quite a lot about. You had a one point: six this weekend, you're. Yet he had a temperature of one hundred and three year which has been labelled by Delta, is a one point. Six right, the highest temperature you can have here
I bring you this weekend. I brought you over a computer charger returned computer charger, your computer charger here and you look like he had been having quite an experience in that department for the last couple days in a tough couple days. It really like I arrived at like a FEMA tat, you know like someone just been given by a mare, that's unsettling. Well, I really was hoping there is some mica bring you like some chicken soup or you no pity, alight something exciting to give you sprang in your step and aegis the you weren't in the mood for any thinks of those crispy French try yeah. I got some french fries. I don't think it was the best idea. Tell me why I am sad to say that, as we know, was temporarily do well. Did you we appoint right when you have an illness of this caliber, you lose your appetite. there is a certain boy- you, like I gotta, put some calories in my body. I don't care how terrible
or absent of nutrition. They are the air and need some calories fact, though, it's a good time to adjust oh all the way go hard, yelled ham as so go hambone here and you and I agree that in the nose moments of weakness in despair that we off and turned to Chris Beef, the hot french fries yeah. We won't tell you the provider of uncas when, as is weird endorsement to say, we only then will we have diarrhoea vomiting, but their dark Krispijn hot and delicious, and will will you know moment when do calls yeah? How much of that large fry did he get through sent me a little photograph of photographic displayed out just half. those large body, see them the large try where I had a cookie. Also, you love your cookies yeah. I didn't have a good night and I think
should probably have just knotty nanny thing day. No, but it was fine deprived bought you thirty forty seconds of pleasure, I did at Bay God did they taste other hot annoying and salty society. I do now like the science were seen, come out about french fries. It's a little discouraging I believe it either gunning for everything we like in this world. What's next- cigarettes are bad. You now never parts bank parleying Nuclear, probably in the clear we had beautiful, live show this week we sure did. Yeah boy, we have a fawn live, show an ally, and I was forty eight hours out of a significant foot surgery where I got a steel rod coming at the end of my tone. I gonna posed a picture of it well
probably the x rays find the other photos way to triggering. I think people lose their lives ease, they would lose their cookies if they saw it. Is it's pretty mangled? Looking when you agree, it's gonna get Europe pension yeah. It definitely would need stop your scrolling, yeah yeah or pick up designers growling. It's really hammered nobody. At any rate, you forty some hours out of surgery. I was a little nervous I wouldn't put on a good show and then everyone else has picked up It's like now, you dad you, you did put on a good show. You rallied, and you did good, has your good feeling now feels good. It does, considering that it's gotten very little rest since the procedure we the live, show that we have an award show Friday night and photo shewed all day to day sprawling.
What the doctor proscribe, but with that said, we're going good. I feel good down there. The rod in there doesn't hurt it. Does it doesn't hurt, it is living total fear that sums gonna bump into and drive them rod deeper into my toe. This interesting that you can have a raw coming out of a true that many can be pain? Let's make no mistake, there's an inch rod hanging out of my talk. It looks like you should be dying, It looks like they put a tiger. My talk of past oh yeah but back to the show what happened was I was I was trying to rally, and I was a little nervous and now you you're starting to feel a little rough too. And we that no wings at the opening of the show as you and I do an Bob started playing his mash up of all the many differ. Great songs that started in L a year and ink
still sang yeah, Jackie sang Aunt Hannah, saying we're end Andrew Bird, the most, complex whistler in the world, which you're gonna be quick to write that off like do as I was like the greatest whistler in the world. Who cares its whistling? I was does he not yummy crow because he whistled our themes are chill. send for it was sell em, it's think it was them unique thing, I've ever experienced or heard so special is so jealous and so a happy new year, and then the waves started coming so the waves were kick off by that we saw, and then they were just punctuated with Hannah a key Kristen singing Bob's amazing malady in you
I just got we rode the wave we high as hell on those chills and by the time we got on a stage. It was go time and I felt spectacular and then our Gaza men are gas was like unbelievably and tat is ass. It in there On Friday, you in Europe First, a word of your whole life. You we want. Will we leading Wabi LA la Mancha and wags one Iheart radio break out by guest Ward, which was so fine for us it was really find an exciting. I was proud of you as broad a you knew me. Speech and while we were smile jet all was good in the world and we went home what we didn't. Actually we weren't given a trophy were told they ll be a trophy, but he gave us a fake one. The whole than a fake wanna take a pitcher with and then with the we laugh when they wars are thing they're like tough
It easy Anna. Like all. We need that, just like more non Sheila. They said tough tidies three hours a week, ok or One more thing I want to say we beat out. What's your favorite podcast doktor death? Yes, and I haven't heard it at that time, but I've been very ill, as you said into I binge debt. Did you love it. Yes, I love did. It also is the is very disturbing it's very hard to listen to, especially when you feel. Your body is failing you, bless, you down, there I blush not I care when she coughs in she hates it, but her car zones, often like us, NEA dies in and then I think, arrest by and I think just take all the blessing. You know yeah or body. Sorry, look
ok, so I listen, and it was really disturbing and good and scary yeah, so scared to ever ever surgery and lay dad's about to have a surgery and milk. I got really scared. He's better was very easy highs, heard repose cataracts, but still the he'll be fine, and you know I I add surgery just after losing their vat. I'm glad I didn't he here that before you went into surgery. I found myself talking to the nurse prior to the procedure. Saying like I love you listen to doktor death now all well, let me tell you bonbon, and I'm really I'm getting too is like but those who nurses had felt more empowered. They knew that it would. The procedure is going wrong, but they were not empowered to stop it boy. I hope those things are a man basically Sanders. If you see some shit gone sidewise steering this foot thing? You tell somebody yeah stop stop this person, but Let me tell you doctor Weissmann: he was. He was like
sixteen fighter pilot boy he got in there snips near bows in and out no prob no issues. He did a bang up. Job no need for nurse intervention is not a doktor death. Now no noise, the antithesis that it the advice that they gave on the podcast like talk to your nerve, she's your advocate or he's your advocate generally yeah. Oh, who did so good, though everyone should listen to your dad's got the same folks who did Dad Dirty John, where we also loved man. There is a lot of great podcast. This year was when you saw like the category rearing, their naming. People were like will no way, there's no chance when I shot and how air and research Are you a doctor datum? I know. I know
you know you ve got a darker like it's a lot like when I won my first day. Championship is the same. There were so many good people in our category, so many good teams there were who was? There was a longshot crapshoot yeah. Why loved that of pig? back on your winning streak, retail I'm tryin to absorb Samir. Good luck seems to be working. one more thing that was so sad, the sad as part of the whole weekend I had a really nor your now at this they had a plan eight with your mom and daughter had a date with my merle, I gotta see really cool mad. Show- and I was gonna girl. I was going up until one of three when your temperature here one or three, he thought Moreover, that is because magician job,
Stan Wheelmen, he shout out he listens. Magician is awesome. He is that magic for human sky. On Netflix he made he got you some tickets. He was, generous enough to find a couple seeds and sold out show for you and mom a Christian, and you we're gonna. Gaza broke your hard to have to call that all he had been. He is a little baby at home. I felt a response, all bringing my sickness into that Ray and that one of the three is are you might be kissing him at some point during the show, I fear that as part of the magic, if the aim of all you get a balance here to come up from the get come upon staging, yes, the magician all that yeah yeah anyhow, but am I try to go what you would have gone and it did prove to be too
much for you and you did die during the show. It probably great promotion for him like his magic, so debt. The fine caused the death of that. Now that you, why do you mean you want it to be their fight? they have inducing now I see so for me. I'm not terribly interest in going to see a magic show, but if I found out that one hundred people they attend will die of him being impress. I probably would go that's true. It was death inducing there finally to beat the odds, Actually, I only have fun if I think there's a viable threat of death. I know that's when I really start having a good time. Jumping off the roof was summoned to a pool. You know some of them motor strapped to you. That's one
Some things really come online from here. You like higher s, my dream, glands, you shot! That's why I got a really poker hard give a good kick in the liner airline, their purpose Yours are rare ears are overflowing yeah, yeah, ok back, so you meant. the court case about friends my favorite show and you may let me talk there hung over show as well. Did you think that the time and place for yeah I did Well, then I apologise, but I'm really Algeria is from now on. We need to pontificate on the value of friends call so It was in two thousand six, what wasn't all the court, This was our ten thousand set out in the California Supreme Court. Throughout his sexual harassment, lawsuit against the makers of the hit comedy brands rule.
The vulgar, in course, comments by the shows writers reflected the quote. Creative work place broke harmony comedy with sexual themes. In ruling unanimously for Warner Brothers, television productions estate, high court said the shows writers did not direct their love. Lewd comment at the woman who sued them or at a woman, particularly or at women particularly state law does not outlaws sexually coarse and vulgar language or conduct that merely offends Justice Marvin our Baxter rope for the court Baxter's that the court basis. Decision on the totality of the undue beauty circumstances, particularly the fact that friends production was a creative workplace focused on rating scripts, for an adult oriented comedy, show featuring sexual theme The army, sexual themes, yeah me in which I it true wish not earliest show about sexual themes that sexual themes I can. I can, I can tell you
All the apis says. If you want, you, don't think a lot of them. There was actually I'm your man. Watches shows we can really some enemy and there's like three lines like you know, Joe is horny for everybody in that way, How you doing You know that broadcast members were involved in sexual Congress throughout the series right Comcast members will now on the show didn't members of the friends group date one another weren't here when we are all too Laura our worries, girls and boys dated rachel- you never watched area there. I didn't I didn't want to show, because I heard that the writers were sexually vulgar in the writing room ass. I want no part of that right. That sounds right. You yeah yeah, look people show
aim their sexual jokes at any person. Yeah that's wrong. Sexual harassment, wrong! No woman should have to go to work in here. Some asshole deeds thoughts about them. Personally, he asked that goes without saying what does it? Ok, There are longer say it. So I'm saying I say I then I'm also saying that you, Nobody has a constitutional guarantee of not being offended. I agree mean, is a part of being on planet earth. It's it's a part of all discourse. You know So a guys you're gonna be offended. That's part of life s they'll be no protection of being benefit, Thank you said in this conversation. You are really relaxed. Just now me boxes, but my foot up interest side decided to recline my lazy boy. I got comfy a coffee in the evening. The hardware is sixty percent. then you just put your leg down, so I don't know what
you are so emblematic of the call out culture. Look at you and your friend expose all my indiscretions, the game. I just don't know what you're doing we're not connecting, as I can hardly see your eyes at and in Europe. attending like it's about your leg, and it's not news, I can see you probably. Can you not see me, I mean kind. What can I do seared share in your mind, when I see her eyes any way. Oh all we were talking about this and you say well yeah I mean we have the ability. Aid to discern whether point out your pants, injured jargon, Often further writers assist, it is harassment, and you know that True, it seems like that's obvious, but some times. Weird stuff does happen in these rooms and it filled the boy
Andrey is really blurry or blurry than I think. doing structural engineering Y yeah, but it's more. It's just or blurry than anyone really wants to give credit for yeah and it's just hard dynamic. I think it's hard to navigate than than you are giving credit for well, I stand by everything I'm saying, but I will also add that a lot of this problem would completely go away. If half that writers room was female and half of every writers, room should be female. So that's a problem that we should address right and confirm. because once you are at the sole woman in a room with nine guys that that dynamic shifts dramatically, If I'm, the sole guy around nine women. That's a different thing, and- and I recognise that, but that's not what does not the wrong issue you know.
to me? The issue in that situation is like. It should be a pretty equal invite meant to go to work. To begin with, and now You have allies and friendships, and all these things and you don't feel isolated, and this is a lot of dynamics that could be beneficial, does have make sure those writing. The rooms are there, some equity, their yeah. I agree, I think, both things a true. Ok, woozy australian comic, that's sing, a song that was only a ginger, can college gender ginger and that song is called prejudice and its by TIM mention. So people can watch that if they would like, and so you touch eleven about the food diets of different people, groups and how ya we can't really make any a searching judgments on any in based on that any mention
the mass sigh just drinks, milk or Taos blow they during yeah. That's what yes, there, their tribe living in Kenya in Northern Tanzania and their traditional I can see almost entirely of milk, meat and blood. You lied to me of their calories, come from that and they consume hundred two thousand milligrams of cholesterol a day while it was one of those is, is I made terrible analogies, though, when you pointed out, because I was basically trying to position them in innovates as opposites when, in fact, they're kind of dead, similar oh right, so I made a bad. I could have picked a much better group that had like a ninety nine percent, vegetarian diet or some right. You know that's true, so I made a bad but you're. Just saying like I mean we Americans would never take on that die like that. Would sound crazy. That would sound very irresponsible
ones bazaars it wouldn't it would result in a different health. come here than it would there be asked, is also so fascinating raising here, it's like I want please Papa New Guinea were on the path I still think it's this way now, but as recently as like the seventies, they would wean children from breast feeding with cigarettes in people. There are small from the time are like five years old and they did chest x rays and no one had lung cancer. Rarely and then it becomes a big debate about like walls of the additives in american cigarettes, blah blah blah, but again just so More intuitive air, crazy, here and now that they are young enemy back to Normal Korea. Now I need your foot to be rest. No, no! You know what I need to be there for you today. You are there for me. You took. Let me just say that to the arm chair is that you took a spectacular care of me. You pick me up from I procedure
ten in the morning and Bev Hills in you our main and you drove me to my follow up appointment. And you are administered my pain, medicine, which I'm not allowed to have access to. You really took care of me, so they can do is sit up right to talk to you in your moment of need lap. I like taking care of you. Thank you in its a burden for you to take care of me by sitting up, and I don't want that. I want you to be comfortable news on the drive to Beverly Hills and no- and I literally morning here of you, ok indifferent likes or I like sitting up for you, I'm in joint letter box to put your dog watches, watches, watches watch, let's not Co. Uk look at elevated. Holding that come from is very common, ah very comfy open on false sleep like this, as my only fear yeah. Do you think that's pie? of why you dull, like getting help legged because then
you feel, like you owe them, I used to think TAT. I used to think I ever asked someone dry, me too, the airport, because I didn't never want to be asked to drive zone to the airport, but I I threw me we're? Thinking about it? I recognise that's not what's going on what's going on is. single mothers, three children, everything stretched to its limits? all of us as a team having to be completely self sufficient and not be drain on the other person and at that exactly how you demonstrated your love for someone in my family is that he would never be. a drain on them when I meant drain on people. I feel like the message jumps I'm sending is that I don't love you ride on value you as much as I value me, I can switch, is very backwards in my head.
And even with the awareness, even with the intellectual awareness, I feel bad forcing other people to help me just exist it's hard for me, even though they might derive some pleasure. from here and also not forcing no one doing it if they don't want to do it Ah, so, oh so, at the record of how many kids one and had he said, sixty and its sixty nine o sixty Yeah though- and this is disgusting- Ok, her name isn't like nowhere to be, and she's referred to as the wife of Theodore vessel. Lee of four years this Seventeen o seven occur so I'm sure, that's why I mean it. I'm sure her name is maybe
Some are, I could find, but definitely not on the first page, the firemen, the cheese raising these sixty nine kids in there's no indoor plumbing. Trinity how are even washing these diapers their cloth. You know the whole thing. Air sounds like this person pie had a pretty tortuous existence unless they just loved, creating babies and caring for them, which may be the case minded judge, but boy. Does that sound like a rough existence should disappear How many sets it too was a I just saw that what what what How many twins were in their says in twenty seven confinements Mohammed manner she gave birth to sixteen pairs of twins Foma, seven sets of triplet all my girl or sets of Quadruplex no yeahs
in awe and even on here. That's an injustice. Thea view view of how Romania Subsequent up. Would you do, sir, quadruped. Let's say she had set top less seven sets of triplets. Oh my god, you're, that's twenty one, gosh I mean it. Also on the seventeen hundreds, I can't imagine more than half these kids lived. I now now. I know why you re no way she was a peasant s, ages, learn, and so I don't think they had good care. For them of any. If what I know about peasants holds true, is a rough go wow? What a life here is sad. I mean just imagine having quadruplicates in it,
in agreeing to have sex ever again. I just can't imagine that that once you you deliver for kids again and going in surgically in seventeen hundred. She is delay ring for kids in a row at once, sitting and then she did that three more times to more times are able to offer all. Oh, my god, Yes, are you take state of affairs in her vagina arts yeah you're right there probably were coming out easier and easier ass time went on, but so, if you take all that way, you take away that the quadruplex in the triplets and the twins. You start looking a more realistic number of someone's every one. At a time when do math on it was say- would be like. Probably you probably only has Pregnancy, she'd, maybe like thirteen sixty nine told all hey so six,
in pairs of twins. Thirty to her, Evans sets of triplets rides What's your sixteen seven's, let's twenty three typing pregnancies now, so she that tone, three pregnancies says sixteen seventeen twenty three and then for our further Quadra twenty seven who'd skill, preposterous twenty seven times aye aye cutlasses, this lame nameless peasant, maybe twenty seven, confinements means twenty seven pregnant, ok sure! Well, we ve figured out the. the least efficient way possible to figure out what the word confinement means or understand. We did a bunch of had to have some that were regular re, apparently not apparently not away, I was out of the kids start over thirty, two, so first woman, sixteen twins
thirty, two to end twenty one trip, let twenty one times three is sixty three. Sixty three wait. Wait. Tournament! twenty one times three six is. This is all wrong, not twenty one, twenty three, twenty one sure airlines triplet. Ah, you twins and six team Quadruplicates, ok, we're! Where were we are in the ditch year? Sixteen plus thirty, two plus forty to forty, eight, ok, plus twenty one, forty it was twenty one is sixty nine online, God, she doesn't have any single children, no single children, just I just wanna just forget climb on my soul box for six seconds when you think this world is as bad as its ever ban. I just want you to think about this seventy nine, some peasants or force? Have sixty million kids
a shitty existence, are we gonna, low, better so big grum does victim, claim to offer people, a million dollars for a seaman yeah. He said He denied sexually assaulting over a dozen different women who took his class and in an interview in which she, Splain. Why there's no way he ever needed to assault a woman? He said p, we'll pay one million dollar from her drop of my sperm here. He didn't plural. But he's inside I didn't die. There are good anyway, always said I can make up here, like what we did. What's your name, your mom on no sir, no the dancer, the dancer. Who was not sexual but was appearing to be sexual
remember to command me. I'm trying to figure out that the spanish stand, sir. Who is also Georgia, e g. E g g g g g g g now and she would say, Michael's my coochie, we add my courage: coochie huge Coochie, Coochie air way. How is it like her? Obviously you almost couldn't say her sentence. Without doing an ax is horrible. Charles Charlie, so he said I can make million dollar
economically condemn days. Only blur lies I can make million dollar days, do you think is even possible that somehow in India, you dont pluralist dollars? now you just can't Asia's does not that well versed in the English. Will you bring him for you know over like forty year now, but it takes a long time for access to change. Sherman paralyzing things isn't really liked. What kind of, if I'm speaking, Spanish there that's the First thing: I'm letting go. Leisure Earl is Asia to ensure you know, you know she stared? I can't deal with that. I'm just not the same as a basic thing right, there's gonna be like you for everything, I'll your tango, Yo Com. All you definitely yeah yeah anyway, it make million dollar day every day.
Three days had ok by the way, what a great like defence for between a predator, as that you wouldn't have to as if that's the only innovation for being a predator, that selling a power trip that it is due. Actual necessity, but he didn't have any sexual necessity, because he the charge, one million dollar a day, for his seamen exactly yeah. Ass, a man so You mentioned that a rang tangs. I know you call them or hard and respect that you're, never gonna, say you're, never gonna, say, and I respect that you say it correctly me around Deng's get raped and Then they choose who to get pregnant by yeah. That's so that oh crazy, and I did find some corroboration on that. That said, dull females, are highly unwilling to meet with young males undeterred.
a young male off and follow a female and even form a short courtship with her the female continue Europe uses advances his superior size and strengthen used to overpower raper such relationship are either terminated by the arrival of an adult male who displaces the youngster or else by the female finally managing to get away interesting lay. There is some evidence that such rapes rarely result in pregnancy, possibly because at the peak period of fertility the females most likely to be found with her preferred fully adult male meaning some mystery there any of these, these adult now orangutans or such assholes, in there too big to go up into the canopy, so the women and all the babies and adolescents they all live in the canopy. They are never down on the ground because they don't want em. They ought to be around these males in the males are solitary they're on their own, but the rest of the group's social
do you see that I'm sure I visited document around orangutans in she like was anything up to this adult male, this older adult male? That of course lived on the ground too big to get up in the trees, and it was like looking peace. looking peaceful canals and he just grabbed her by the neck shareholder in and all the people around sorted freaky. Now, of course, she's freaked out of any just held her nurse position for this, what felt like an eternity and and they got her away from him, but it was very dark see any went from. Like oh look at this majestically creature to like Chrome, he MRS Orangutan Self Gas and do they kill So I do not like it assumes that chimp aside homicide, but yet they say chimps are the only or I may bat other than us that they have observed, killed for fun.
real, like in their own species to so that there are some totally unexplained, chimp homicides that seem to have no advantage to the perpetrator of the murderer, yeah, you have that too narrow dark as a result makes you think that, like our anger, tat with it with the guerrillas yeah it's it- does suggest that, with intelligence come some darkness darkness yeah. I think that's what it's a proof Guph moreover, one of killer whales. During that weird shit like that, because there there hyper intelligence were often right, I remember learning that Belgians disposed to really be about NEO, cortex, size, verses body. Mass circumlocutions are really really smart. To the little animals. You see an outbreak, a little monkeys with the skin face their crazy,
more, although they have a small brain is their tiny, but there the NEO Cortex mass relationship is quite high which, by their so smart Kroes, to ever, really high NEO Cortex Mass in in Apparently, workers have the high compared to us. So I wonder if they do need trippy, homicidal unexplainable, weird shit, because one be called homicide with them. They're, not hominids, There was some really interesting statistic: I'll have to go back and find it that their Christian told me that she read and some people besides magazine crows and how they can like right, gig nice people from above the lake see. You know they're like flying around in there, like others, tax yeah like they know us they can all. You do like a nine step problem too,
a tree which is not if you you to this, like. I went down a rabbit hall of I just Google. What's the smartest bird and then immediately crawl comes up and then immediately these videos of them solving these multi step problems to get a prize its bonkers. like open boxes in turn, switches and do all this stuff crazy is core is Ok, see you said fifty percent of our pregnancies in human cells terminate researchers found that more than half of successful fertilisation, wind and miscarriage the research which is which has yet to be peer, reviewed, was pen. by evolutionary geneticist William. To rise of the University of California, Santa Barbara in dry
upon many previously conducted studies and I've been quite often women don't even realise that they were pregnant and that they self terminate dancing. They have like a heavy period one month, Zactly cause. I think, previous to this new, incite ten to twenty percent think they were accounting for people who knew right. So then he is he's not he's saying. Like allotted time here, you don't even know sad I think it's cool, I think it's so cool org is what your body has detected is that there is a mutation or our dear. junction, where you're going to have I'm forty seven chromosomes instead of forty said. Yes, I mean it's good at our bodies. Can deriving it's really cool that our body can read that I now did southward Ally's, overcoming our now that some that's not gonna, make a healthy
the animal curious about the abortion, yet what I dont think prologue people would want to acknowledge that our own bodies- aborting half of all pregnancies, because once you start think, about it. That way,. If you're calling it a murderer, then your I have to say, half of all pregnant people are murderers because their bodies herself terminating right. So that's where to me, but again I went never going to convince anyone. Norma gonna, try, but it just is food for thought. at, were designed to self terminate half of that, you know they would probably said the distinction is, you are choosing so it wouldn't be murder, it would be gal, I wonder, do you think God is doing it or their bodies doing it year. Maybe I do now but do you? Don't you think that that frames, the debate much differently when you acknowledge half of all pregnancies are terminated idea.
But, like I said, I think that in their problem it is the choice of playing God deciding deciding to terminate when you don't look so weird. Is your bodies deciding determinate that pregnancy? Those like ok, wasn't a decision that you that had that happened in the subconscious or the conscious its but your body to chose to terminate that pregnancy, but it wouldn't be the difference between murder and cancer Ah, it's Woodward. That's again, there is a big difference, big big difference, but if cancer, person, we'd thrown in jail. Sure I'd love determine all, can imagine that Abu apprehended cancer beyond dollar bills- daddy, I hope someone catches- cancer, I'm no! I don't want to catch. He has a legitimate apprehend cancer boy right. That's all That was all yes, ok, you know
There is a saying in the talks that programme a member of that expectations are resentments waiting to happen. So I tried to avoid expectations, but I also fall victim to expectations and I added expectation about brought Weinstein's thakane was it meant tat. It was met men, some air, feels good when you actually allow yourself to have an expectation that fully met Yad, rare and special yeah yeah, and we want to have a man now for everything right, we're talking about poop and what a weird thing poop is, and I can't wait to have him explained to us. The evolution of fine in the smell poop repugnant right. Because in all other animals down there eating their book other animals there challenge down on it. So you can't just subjectively say: poop stinks in some in us that has identified that a stinky, it's an evolution and made us and it's weird help our Own isn't,
so repulsive to us. We can. We can deal with yeah. That's right! That's right! So we can now make sir I can handle other people's people. I like The adds up, if you love the person, but which makes sense, do because again an evolutionary biologist, but I have to assume that we find that smell repulse. so that we will stay away from other people's poor because other people's poop carries lots of germs and disease that we could then get. So it's a great trade. If we live in Multi member groups were or I'll pumping around each other. It's good to be driven away from that way. Right, but if your own, you already have all the diseases and everything so there is no repaired. That you avoid around Pope the air and then You could even extend that a little bit to the immediate family, which is you're all sharing the same germs anyways like you. The cold. I had three weeks
and I'll have the one you have you know like. So I think I'm safe to be around you're excrement. but probably not you, know someone down the road. I mean. I also think it the smell has to do with moving through. Our entire body in there's all this vile and chemicals that it meets or a comes out bid again, because we have so many examples of other animals, not finding it now, Add smelling it's: it's not objectively bad smelling across the animal kingdom. So it's something unique, us that we find a mean you watch these elephants at the zoo. They will one elephant poop, the other one is pigs, are right up and Charles down as videos galore there's. Even this horrendous video encourage IRAN, find it were elephants. This is trunk up. Another elephants bought at the zoo and it just pulls out this gigantic clump of excrement, and then Eads in Messina Rob
in the other relevant there's a lot going on in this video, because your initial thought as like how grows who would want to go grab that out of the other element, but that these are thinking that other elephants very casual about having a trunk up its, but in its body written around in there, it's fine with that That's me even more shocking in wanting to be in zones but anyways we eat bread eyes on this week to explain to us exactly what's happening but duty? I love you feel I think many mouse thinks more often going for you gonna send a collective wave of love. and good mojo towards you K and bless you