Dr. Alex Katehakis Ph.D., MFT, CSAT-S, CST-S is the Clinical Director of Center for Healthy Sex in Los Angeles and the author of Erotic Intelligence: Igniting Hot, Healthy Sex While in Recovery from Sex Addiction, Sex Addiction as Affect Dysregulation: A Neurobiologically Informed Holistic Treatment and co-author of Mirror of Intimacy: Daily Reflections on Emotional and Erotic Intelligence. Dr. Alex sits down in the attic to discuss the role shame plays in sexual dysfunction, the indicators of love addiction and the practice of tantric intimacy. She talks about the multiple factors that lead to disassociation and Dax believes dolphins are very sexual. The two discuss the different types of relationships young people are engaging in and they talk about the impact of pornography on developing minds.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome. Welcome welcome to experts on expert I'm doctor deck shepherd. I'm joined with surgeon Monica him well in another life. Why? Why do you wish that I could be cool? Like underlines our enemy? Ok, I had a friend dated three surgeons in a row and Michigan. Why, in his conclusion, was that they were worn here is the interesting I wonder why he said they were real ranch uniform way, maybe just as we are dealing with the nuts and bolts of humanity? Maybe maybe it's like life is too precious usages issues by a well what a great transition to our guest. Today we have an incredibly smarten, interesting sex addiction, their best sex therapists in marriage and family therapists named Doktor, Alexandra Cotta Hotchkiss. I had so much fun talking. Mediation is fascinating. I liked our lot. I just love talking to her and she has a great book called me
of intimacy. So this is a great opportunity to pervert with us with the expert that actually knows we are talking about so please enjoy Doktor, Alexandra Cotta Hotchkiss, o one more thing, Monica yeah, if you like, watching on tv I know your idea, you do ok, gravity or reside deal I'm on tonight. I am the hosting game show I love Game, called spin, the wheel on Fox tonight after master sheriff. It's so exciting, you can win twenty three in dollars item you didn't invite me on their because you're, not good enough Nor am I normally the people that are on this well have like rescue people out of derailed train our real Yanks. Ok, yes, I never was I standing across somebody that I was even remotely as good as but it's a very high stakes, fun game show and then I am a little bit weird on it.
As you would hope. I'm talking to the contestants about how handsome their husbands our work are. You know that's the what you'd come to expect a sure, just a dose of pervious. If you want to check it out, it's on Tonight box, aftermath chef we are supported by cash. App armchair is brought to you by cash. Have the number one finance app in the app store cash app is the most powerful way to San Span and save it's connected to the free cash card. The only debit card with boosts just select boost in your cash out than instantly save at some. Your favorite places,
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lives of children and foster care. A true win, win police download the cash up today. Pre, please he's, will you your last name for me: cut a hackers hockey sit sort of phonetic, Cotta, Hotchkiss where's, that from Three, I would imagine, are you proud? I am yeah. There was a time when I was in elementary school, where I hated it. Aha right, because I grew up in a very white area of where a well. I grew the central is close to Florida and there's air force base their own very white middle
I was speaking white people and I have really curly hair when I blow dry it straight yeah, but as a kid I, like tiny TIM dates, me uneasily, but so I hated my aunt for mom and dad Greek. While my mother was born of greek parents in the states, I father was right off the boat. He was innocent. Ah my parents, have a really interesting story in that my father came right at a world war, two as a young man, and he couldn't make a living on his island. He grew up in Crete, so he decided to join the merchant marine travel around the world and make some money and go back was his idea, but when You got to New York. He called his uncle who lived in Miami who, so why do you come? is it us, and so my father had no change in his pocket. Essentially spoke. No English got on a greyhound bus,
and made his way through segregated south meeting cheese and crackers and coffee for hours. Then had this experience of like getting off the button Georgia and going to the bathroom and they were black and white bathrooms, so he was an alien really. So what to Miami by then he had in a broken all rules of curfew. He was now in trouble. He was a wall in its exactly off his aunt and uncle were very good friends with my maternal grandmother and my mother had married very young and had a child and then her husband divorced her and then he died. He had cancer, so he knew he was dying, resting yeah, because that could either be an incredibly benevolent gesture or act very weirdly, selfish, gesture right, and so my father comes along and my grandmother says you should marry him because you know you don't have any options Asher and she does. He can get his green card and Santa Country Rhine. Well, though, in the just
The thirties and fortys marriages were very much financial are. In many ways right there. I saw this wasn't very nicely arrangement? Both people benefited now. Did they fall in love? Well, I think it was more or unilateral. I think my mother was crazy about him cause. He was greek and gorgeous I'll ad and my father was a young in hand some in no way ready to settle down so right, it was rocky, but they were together for like twenty five years and that's how I ended up there also- and they are a bunch of Greeks there that were in construction, flooring, mechanics you're, what's the greek stereotyping. No Italians are bricklayer, as they were in my Detroit Suburbia, the restaurant tours, but my father was it. He did a whole bunch of different thing. He ended up building in establishing a flooring company that my brother neurons today are no cutie there, while so very hard for a family on business to survive. A generation is known yeah now
reason. I ask all those of us because we get to talk to a lot of people in I'm always interested and why they chose the field or word pulled towards the feel that they ultimately went towards re, and I was just curious if you yourself knew why Europe onto sexuality, human, sexual yeah. Well, I a very circuitous route, as most people do and so in our group in this family, where there was a lot of attention- and there was info- reality. My rather made that very vocal to all of US she was so unhappy and no, I didn't have a compass or any kind of role model for what it meant to be a healthy sexual relationship over time. And so I grew up on the backside of this actual revolution. And had a lot of sexual experiences that relate and led me much of anywhere.
Other than heart broken mostly. So at some point I started to ask the question of offers What am I doing with my life and that's when I considered going back to graduate school? The question really was a: how do people have a long I am committed relationship that remains erotic over a lifetime, and is that even pop right now really quick? Were you equally judgment? All of mom and dad, or did you put your judgment on one or the other? Were you forgiving of dad and thought mom should have left him, or did you think dad was a dog No, I don't think I was really judge mental of either one of them in that way on urgent for us, the ways in which she was vocal wasn't explicit, but
she was angry and if something was up- and I really adored my father loved him- deeply clearly views- I mean many affairs, he was probably a charismatic charm. Oh yeah, Georgia area, handsome sexy continental, the whole nine yards. There's a terrible Chris, Roger, that's really funny is that men are only as faithful as their options that right now, but I would imagine he brought a lot of options he did was also seeking them, I'm sure right and he got married and hidden fallen, loved, the traditional way area, You know my father passed away last year about, as the age and it's later years he told me that he was homesick for a very long time. He never intended to leave grease. There was a woman there that was, you know his girlfriend. He thought he always said he was going to marry her and return home if he was really torn. Butt
these two worlds, and so he was not satisfied or happy for in a most of his life, I would think without was concerned. While ok, so at a certain point, the many roads lead. You dig in getting a doctor a degree in human sexuality and you're, also a licence. Psychotherapist yeah marriage, family therapists. Do we know what percentage of people who stay monogamous are sexually active? Well, I thinking Basically. What we are saying is that Americans over report, their sex lives, actually having less tax than ever before. Aha and then the young people write rather terrier, especially there's a researcher in San Diego has really in the forefront of all of this. Her last name is twenty, and she looks at really twenty. The twenty cohort college and in the twenties and everybody's been so freaked out about all this sexting into
staying in young people having so much that it turns out there having a much less sexy than ever before. Solo sex and virtual sacks like nobody, goes steady anymore. The review will you know I mean it's so uncool, really it's much more of a hook up culture or it's all through virtual conversation, while imagine, males here, would still list sexes a number one. Priority ever their policing a lot more porn than having the sack. So it's more of a solo sacks trend that taking place in I don't how familiar you are with the latest generation of vibrator, for example, line all you do so you don't have to tell me so there are out there at the time when vibrator were all this kind of hard plastic flesh, colored plastic thing the really unattractive, and now they're made an all these a gorgeous colors. They look like lipstick
right lavender, rightly rated a beautiful materials that don't cause cancer and we all have usb ports there plug right into your computer. If you read I urge them, so they can no longer need batteries and have to deal with that all mass, so that becomes an extension of the computer and that people are having more and more sex by way of porn or coming through these devices. And were wiring up our brains and our sexual arousal template towards these boxes. What and I can only imagine that they're gonna only get more and more interact. Sure yeah, hey are you sure. The vibrator already has a usb port, then clearly it could be linked in up to some kind of imagery that would change its pulse and all these things as the images chain that can't be far away if it's not eye and we only have robotic sex dolls now on the table, yea. I
there being made, and especially those female dolls are just less signa your father's blow up doll, right? You can have this designed anyway, you wind, and there are even modes of famous porn stars and stuff that young people can get right. Yeah you can get to Anything you want now I mean there's even a company called we vibe that has a remote so that, if you are with a partner and let's say you're in London and I'm in la you can use as vibrator and one person couldn't ask the adjust a stimulation of it in her wifi, while, while my wife and I are living in Estonia, in any event is exciting stuff
was there with a religious general question? Let me tell you so I'm predicted the most anything I enjoy, so the topic of sex addiction is come up on here numerous times and I generally defend the concept. I think some people have an issue with it. Think generally people in the public feel like it's an excuse, as opposed to an explanation. So what? How do you feel about how the public views sex addiction will? I think when people say it's an excuse, there's a profound lack of compassion in that statement. For sure, people go right to being angry and we have a culture in this country where we love to watch people rise to the top and then we love to watch them crash and burn a very bizarre kind of sadistic relationship. We have with celebrity especially the up and so there is no place for compassion or this idea, even of redemption, that people can redeem themselves that they can make restitution and then its through this
hunting, so biblical right now and I'm not, but through this dark night at this, all that we recover ourselves So I think that in a sex addiction has been sort of in this site case now, as a constellation of behaviors, as we know it and the argument between the six hours and the sex addiction therapists. The psychologist say: you can't be addicted to a behavior and this Six people are saying: well, it's not the behaviour at sea, Neuro, chemical adaptation in the, rain and in the nervous system that keeps driving these repeated behaviors that lead people to destroying their lives, the drug taking is an actually eliciting the sensation that your experiencing the drug, your taking generally is unlocking Dopamine serotonin. All these things that are already in your brain, you have the chemistry set in your brain and then the drug as if its cocaine, it's a three time inhibitor. So you're gonna have a flood of all these different things
hard to get, but so it's already your bodies, chemistry, that's producing the euphoria and the experience rain, So there is no reason to say that some kind of behaviour when an act and the exact same way and as someone who is used sex to regulate my own feelings and emotions, I can tell you, I have been high, is hell out here that so that's crazy to think that the behaviour is not producing they reward system response, just like a drug was ended, dies and people speak about it repeatedly and that's where tolerance comes into play, because looking at one person having sex is not that now, Lenny more so than you need to three ten martians. You name it and the next will like drug addiction. I too can use to escalate right as a pretty predictable trajectory sure and then there's the talents to the escalation of there's always a seeking of more indifferent and that's what has their lives in a d railing: American Psychological Association?
not recognize it does it as it does not. But there is an international coding book of the Icy De Eleven that's coming out and they do recognise and they are recognising sexual compulsive. Eighty in the newest edition of that book, which is coming out the next couple years and that's a big boon for the field of sex addiction, because that means people will get on insurance reimbursement and help in treating the problem right now. What is the history of a ones the first time, for even suggest that you could be a sex as it was in the eightys. There was a researcher in the UK named James Orford that started talking about sexual compulsive Eddie, and then John Money, who was at Johns Hopkins University in the United States, started looking at two pair Ophelia, so people that were engaging in Aberdeen sexual behaviors exhibition his employer resume and saw that people could be addicted to those behaviors, so
Carnes, came along a nineteen. Eighty three and wrote out of the shadows was previously called thus exit action. He looked at money, work and said well what? If we looked at compulsive sexual behaviour that were nonpareil Philippic in oh just people that had this problem with being addicted to these sex behaviors that were problem, that weren't offending behaviors, and so that's when he really brought the term sex addiction to the foreground course. He was attacked heartily during that time as being homophobic negative does with the primary accused patient. It is a tricky topic. I find a pattern merges, quite often miss country in particular, is there is this puritanical bedrock that does hijack many things I'll see it in feminism, like there's like a clear feminist argument and then all was, and it gets hijacked by Secret puritanical desire. We all have liked glad, can give an example of that year.
So we had alive shell. Monica was talking to one of our guests, Thomas Mental, their gaze, targeted, Thomas Middle, ditch, she's our joy when her breasts beam egg, and then Thomas said, oh my god. I'm just excited now just do because we're on this topic and Monica jokingly said, while I'm here to please while we then get a bunch of tweets, I'm fans same. You know this takes us back words a hundred years bubble. Why, and I kept pointing out, I think what you'd like to say that you would feel uncomfortable in that situation, which is totally fair. It's not fair for you to tell Monica. She should feel uncomfortable rises, european if she wants to instigate that she should be free to do there. I always feel like there's just an undercurrent just waiting to pop up and pull everyone back into the very puritanical bedrock that is America. I wanna hear parents so reluctant to talk to their kids, about how you shouldn't you shouldn t
new penis. Besides there right, that's a very hard conversation for people to have which boggles me right cause every. Has one year, it's not a big but he's a little awkward for them. For you stupid, looking penis that crazy on dad it looks ridiculous gray, usual see anyone else's. And if you do, you should tell me no matter what they say. You will not be entitled to have their conversation, but there's a lot of. I think, shame and embarrassment around sacks out term. Then yeah, I would agree with that. One hundred percent- and even the way you were just talking about that, it's so normalizing, it's like saying you have to feed or enough, but when the parent has shame their transmitting, that shame to the child and shame is the absolute bedrock. It's a cause and effect of sex addiction. From my perspective, because most people who are sex attics grew up in unbelievably shaming families, where there was any some kind of abuse, but there wasn't a glass or emotional or physical or sexual,
views and as such they have a shame base sexuality. They had to go, had it in these furtive ways or difficult away. Yes and nobody knew about it. Nobody was stewardess that child into their sexuality, and then it becomes a tumbleweed. It just gets bigger and bigger, and more and people feel disgusting about their behalf yours or what they like and they feel like. There are normal when it goes on and, on its become shame, addled, because you think your horny feelings are unique and raw awry right, yeah as opposed to their biological and evolutionary, and it's the way the human organism is wired how we continue the species and all of you like. I wish my dad had served so hey your twelve, now
soon, you're gonna get horny right, you're, gonna masturbate, and that's how we do it exactly. I think what we know from neuroscience now is that every human being is coated for pathological dissociation So that means when you ve got data coming into the central nervous system, meaning through the eyeballs through this five senses, and it's too much for the organism to handle so and a five year old organism a ten year old, thirty five year old, we have different capacities depending on how old we are like a child who's got all this data streaming in, and the autonomic nervous system that regulates the body is geared towards what we know is fight or flight right, so something horrible. Happening like if there was an earthquake right now we wouldn't sit around and talk about it. We would all just dash out the door as best we could
when it was my adrenal Windsor Shop, yes, I'll, go wrong legally, I write your hand and that nothing like that, but the brain is designed to move the bodies european and a high fleece state high adrenaline high court, as are to get ourselves out of danger. But if you have a child, that's little infant. Five! Eight, you name and it's in a family where there is violence or alcoholism or just neglect. No food, no tending to nothing that little system can only take so much and because it cannot handle what's coming at the cortex. The higher cortical functions uncouple from the lower part of the brain. So it's a cortical sub cortical disconnect that's one. Dissociation is so the cortex goes off line and it's the biggest.
Rating system requires the most oxygen. It's the slowest. That's why, when you're on a plane, they say put the oxygen mask on first gender entered on the child and also a certain heart rates right that frontal lobe goes off line as well rack dry and its different for everybody. So during nine eleven, there was a group in Boston that looked at the faces of people that were running down nine eleven and they tried to discern who was gonna have PTSD and who wouldn't buy the face by the social engagement system who online and who is offline interesting in the folks, were online. We're not gonna PTSD right They were able what to process all that information cordial next year. They could process it. They could remain themselves to breathe. They could probably use some positive self talk.
Help down, regulate the high arousal state, they were an yeah, and so each one of us her different. If we look at the four of us here right now, if that earthquake happened depending on how regulated we were as infants and what kind of Views we suffered will depend on whether or not we would go off line or not. So that depends again on how securely attached you are meaning how regulated you are. So maybe this would be counter intuitive, but but Nancy myself. Someone who does very well and high stresses inch shits going wrong situations. My person, theory. It always been. Oh alive seen so much violence growing up and I lived through it that each time it got kind of successive level, less impact for or I had lived through it, so it was like. Oh, this is happening again
but is that counter and do well? And what should have happened and that's a couple things they are one is. It could be that your tendencies more towards avoidance so You start to over regulate who, instead of someone who's under regulated, who freaks out, in the face of that so you're systems quietly going yeah, but you look chill and like you got together, that's my case. Actually you want therapists that are kind of war on the avoidance spectrum than on the hyper arouse spectre, rapid surgeons of Gore ourselves over. We thought that it, so it could be that your desensitize to it it could be that you're able to regular your heart during man, or that your system starts to really go down and you are so ITALY and let a moderately dissociated in the face of that kind of trauma. That's what has you able to handle it yeah, interesting
I wonder, evolution airily again, I'm gonna get into big stereotypes. There's a lot of I'll be incorrect about a big section of the population. Let me just stupid. That, but for on him, forty thousand years we were hunting and gathering the Male pursuit of hunting was such that you had to click, do a weird mode. Occasionally there's a normally side of hunting. Let's just say that in I wonder if evolution airily me and dissociate more easily than females. What you're talking about is dissociation, but let's be clear that an association is not always pathological, so hunting knife attics people that are mathematicians, hey the moon number sing to them artists when their pay. Jane, went when you're in a flow state and that flows state is a form of moderate dissociation.
Its required in order to be creative, so the left goes off line. So you're, not thinking in criticising everything you do the bodily based right brain process, that's very much emergent. When we talk about these flows, states or art and its true for athletes anytime, you in a groove writing singing painting you name, it is so dissociation is a feature of the human organism when its pathological, it's what a mentor of minor ensures says with escape when there's no escape mommy, he about abuse, children and so is built into the human organism. To go out when it's too dangerous and we can't handle it anymore, so those hunters I would say yes, their focus is starting to give very narrow. There only have their eye on the target. They are not thinking about their choice, during their wives or the cave, or anything else is just about killing the dear or the approaching Warren. In tribal at
so sure yeah, but I think my best understanding of it again is that we are on believable e, automated creatures. Our brains are very optimistic and where adaptive, and so we will adapt our strategies towards survival, I think you can turn a child in large part into a sociopath or a saint, depending on how you raise that child. Now, of course, there are genetic predispositions and also to the things in the mix. But if you take a child to is a sexually abused, and especially heated lay. There is high sympathetic, arousal there and there's also shame in the mix. How does a high sympathetic arousal work? Well, it's activation in the nervous system, so you ve got high adrenaline, as I said before, high court as all maybe even dopamine B. As its novel. There's also fear is a fierce state on board and there's probably a shame state which is deeply visceral. It's in the interact system,
got so so the child is getting sexually aroused. Aha, because that is again an evolutionary strategy. It feels like this is dirty That is wrong and it feels good right and that that fusion especially early on pre puberty puberty creates an arousal template that is very, very tenacious to get rid of. So if that child doesn't have a trusted other to go to like a parent that says, if you see anybody's penises besides dad, you need to tell me they can't tell the parent, and it happens repeatedly over time that becomes in a dab. Patient towards this is how I have sex dear. I look for sex. It's furtive! That's humiliating that shaming. They were treated poorly because it's a housing, but it's also dirty and I feel horrible about myself. It's so complicated we'll get into these theoretical conversations, and I wonder
you feel about it. So my wife and I will argue about strip clubs show go rightly so I think the majority of women in their probably sexual abuse, survivors in writing and I think statistically she's correct I'll, propose so ass? I agree, but who are we to say how someone should best deal with their trauma? Sure if someone? For whatever reason it's not me, I can't personally relate to it. But if that is the hand you were dealt and here is an occupation that you don't mind that you actually, for some reason, are drawn to a moral imperative there like what if someone's trauma, creates a certain type of person in there. That way is ambiguous at all Morally yeah. I think morality is kind of a tricky conversation because you could say, like let's say
This young woman is one thousand nine hundred and twenty two years old. She doesn't know what she doesn't know right right, so how much of her traumas, associated or repressed? How intelligent is this and where they feel like something's wrong, and I want to get out of this they're. Not even thinking that do they have the capacity to get out of it. Do they want to, or do they just not even think or would never imagined that they could do anything more than that can see where someone would be a stripper NGO, you're right. I do this because I was abused, but here I am, and I like it- and I'd rather make money doing it. This way than another way, designate complicated art you know are now I dont think so because for me, that's when it becomes a healthy choice. It's when people don't undressed. And why they do. I do it's magic. So if we take the example of Media SAM right, which has a lot of controversy,
some bondage discipline Saito asked that's a great example k area, so Let's leave a young woman who was terribly abused as a child. I mean this is a real case, a female whose father was very violent, and so she ends up picking really violent, guys that beat her up and so for her sex is hot, because its autonomic arousal, which is being humiliated and beat and hit, and so she goes through this a number of times until finally, she learned about the media, some community and she to therapy, and she starts to see that while this is really destructive for me, it's hurting me. I hate myself because of it, and then she finds out that there's something called a programme approved, dominate or a man that she can pay to dominate her. Only now She gets to call the shots she to say this is how hard you hit me. This is, You know where you hit me: is what I like what I dont like an afterwards. I want you to hold me and tell me I'm a good girl
and then I'm ok, I'll bet, Ok, yes, it's called after care and in the domination media, some world and so over time She works with this programme. Who is really a form of therapy like immersion? There exists play and she starts to have an experience, and it's not sex. He may not even have intercourse with her, but she starting to have this experience with someone she trusts was not gonna violate her boundaries and who takes care of her afterwards at overtime. She no longer has to choose guys that are you know better is essentially the notion saying TAT I like video, am I liked being tied up or spanked or whatever right, but I'm not leaving with black and blue marks and going to the hospital and hating myself anymore. She's, like I know, that's why I got into it I'm no longer seeking that validation. I just happened to love the sport and its fun for me, yeah, it's very easy to become a judgment from the AL you guys younger, like even in that case now you should be
in here, as someone who doesn't hit anyone here, yeah, it's easy for me there's drawn arbitrary line and go now. That's not healthy. I guess what is healthy me, I think, It's about awareness. I really do think it's about away as if somebody is, but do so seated and they have no insight and they don't know why they're doing what they're doing their generally gonna get her, and I think when we start to have awareness that we start to see even in Accra. Anonymous right. They talk about the return of choice that you starting to make choices theirs and now I d like oh I'm gonna go do that thing and if I do it, I know there's problem: gonna be suffering on the other side of it, but hey. It looks like funds do it anyway right as opposed to I do it and I keep doing it and I can't wake up in the morning and I'm hurting myself and I can't get to work or whatever yeah stay too diffuse there? We are Boarded by Roth. These Monica have you heard of this company there, making style issues for women and girls are recycled, play
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They go now ay, it may be sobriety, for them is not seen any sex workers. Another some might be nosed her clubs and other briskly even know pornography. It could get tighter and tighter until some people know masturbation rain, and so they define their bottom line is and what is called dear. Yes, I guess it can't be abstinence. I can't be like the removal of sexual staff. Costs will mean that there is some people, some people. It is about its typically time limited, like rain. In sixteen ninety days interests will. It is one of the challenging addictions to deal with in the same way that food addiction sprang I am most sympathetic to people with food addictions because you have to eat three times a day a similarly, if you
up in a relationship. Sex is a healthy component of any good relationship, so presumably you're gonna be sexually active at some points out. The idea right is for people to restore their sexuality. Yeah s a sex, attics anonymous uses the same sobriety plan that over eaters and misuses. They use a circle plan. What's the circle of the inner circles are the behaviors that are problematic, that people don't want to engage in any more and is different for everybody gummy their lot of people that are addicted to poor that never touch another person there really quite a voice and then there are the guys that in a higher escorts and go for sexual massage, and then they look at porn, but that's their thing as other people. So it depends on the person shores like somebody who eats over Eads, like you might Marcie mother like cheese and bread, and I'm like I just like cake right so
That's what goes in the inner circle as the thing that's most problematic for you and then the middle circle defines all the triggers all the things that lead people to sex. So you have to consider that compulsive sexual behaviors or problematic or addictive behaviors are maladaptive coping skills right. If you grow up in a family where there's nobody there to soothe you to tell you it's gonna, be ok, say that you know we are loved anyway, that child is gonna, find it another way to take care of themselves, whether its masturbation or looking porn or you know, chasing after other people. That's a one trick pony when you are secure person when you're a healthy person and your feelings are hurt, you call a girlfriend right if sad. You ask for a hug if you just gotta promotion at work, your best running your like dude guess what happened to your right? You ve got lots of ways of soothing yourself interactively with other human beings, but attics are isolated people, and so they only
it one thing it's in secrecy, it feels dirty and they hate themselves for it when it's not working, so that the middle circle, and then the outer circle are all of the life affirming constructive behaviors that people in a move towards like fellowship and making phone calls and being with friends and family right again, so anecdotal of women and two meetings, but it did seem to be a pretty consistent. Division between many of the women seem to be what is maybe referred to Mars, love out and right. It's really mad diction to fantasy, isn't yeah, which is decisive. Ok, explain how we are going to fantasy, you mean you drive, home right, you're thinking about something imagining your weekend. You get home, you know how you got there all right. Well, we all are mildly, dissociate aiding orbit him. Yes, like fantasy, is more moderate, too severe. Depending on the person we are living in a bubble, which is even language using a were you not really press
or in reality, so you see somebody and all of a sudden airline. Oh, my god. I wonder what would be like to marry that person and already thinking where he's going and should I drive by his house in arranged to meet him, and can get really story. Also because it's a one person, stuff. I'm having this experience in my own head and I've, never even talk to that person or I have, and they ve been kind of lukewarm, but I didn't notice it. The immense are people assigning emotional states to it? So when I'm with him and we live in this. How yeah I prepared dinner! I'm gonna feel this way and you can actually even feel that way, while in the famous he lets her eye because imagination is very powerful and how we create our reality, so yeah yeah Esther serve the Bruce said. Love is a product of the imagine,
nation that the other person, something which is really that's, love addiction, is at its height. I would not have the goal of convincing everyone listening that there is sex out, but I think it would be helpful because we all kind of have some barometer of what substance abuse looks like. I think sex addiction is full, more closeted, then it is alcohol it in AIDS easier to hide. I suppose it is here- and you probably don't know- you're not aware that you're doing at that you're using all these mechanisms to control, Your motion a lot of times there not aware until they keep hitting a wall like they can't get into a relationship or sustain one. That's the main thing and the thing that they're doing is no longer fun or pleasurable or doesn't give them the same high. It starts to feel depressing there's despair. They can't stop doing it because I don't know what else to do and that because of the adaptive nature of it, you just keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, yes, and you can't not do
because you don't know what else to do unless somebody intervenes on it and that that's the power of fellowship and power a program you wanna labeling things right or wrong, or bad or good, or this or that what are some kind of red flags I'd say for people to be aware of when their thinking about how their pursuing people, how much fantasies involved, are there any guidelines for people or is it just something they have to know that they don't feel good at the end of it, not that Love annex have a tendency to push the fantasy, that's where they go there, not in reality about what's happening. So for the sake of arguments, are you married? Ok, so I'm gonna use her my partner, please events that of the USA, Monica Nyjord Dating, and I'm super excited and we go out and she's kind of aloof and in I can't really tell whether she was
be with me or not, but I got this idea now that this is going to be my partner, and so she said, yeah I'd like to get together again and I'll call you and she doesn't call, and so I'm thinking, okay. Well, I'm making excuses for why she doesn't call him. Then she call the days later. That's all my cell phone battery gone- and you know I forgot about it- I'm like oh, ok, no problem, so that's a viable possibility right and that she supposed to pick me up and then she's. U no thirty minutes late and there all these yellow flags along the way, and I keep making excuses for why she's the one- and this is the right relationship and then I meet her friends in there just like awful, but I dont care, because I'm desperately want to be in a relationship with her and so and then quote normal person is going to look at these things and say you know what this is not going. Well, this person doesn't call me back. They don't do what they say Gonna do their friends are kind of do she
so I don't know and she lazily no relationship with their parents whatsoever or in oh. She has a have. Many friends is so I look at the yellow flags and the red flags to, and then we go when she takes me to a really nice dinner. She say I forgot my credit card Ok, she has no money going out with her will you know? It's interesting makes me think of advice. I heard long ago when dealing with a stalker, the very best response is Z. That's right, any response will be interpreted by a stalker, raise your yes, they can twist any you could write fuck off. Never call me again in May will figure out how to make that other rely. Ayala. That's like you know. Actually he really likes me
right- that's like remember when you were an elementary school in the little boy would tell dirty were pull your pigtails yeah. I read it is that's how others they're scared to be with me in the right. You know that's right yet to intensify the r and d love addiction at the extreme is exploitive, like that it does turn into stalking because now she's like not into me but I'm driving by her house, and then I see his car in the driveway, and I'm wondering if I should like climbed through the window or go over there drunk and get her to have sex with me, like all these matters patients. People go through to get what they want, but it's their fantasy is not reality of what's happening at all, even if this is not answerable question, but why do you want me? Is it something I've given I'm making you feel a specific way or is it just cause? You just decided. This is the person because the love attic decides. This is the person and it's a projection of what I need you to be, because I never got what I wanted and needed. But it's a one person system.
I'm not seeing you, I'm not reading the queues and that probably why in the first place, you wouldn't have wanted me if you were a secure, solid person it of like ok, this person's, not quite rightly so- that book you just not that India was basically or fantasy atmosphere in large and hang up get into reality, because a realistic scenario is we go out. We like each other. We agree we're going to meet again she's on time. Then she said she's going to call and she doesn't accept. My cell phone was dead and I'm like okay, and that really was the truth, and I meet her best friend and she's. Ok, but I really like her sister, your mom ray. I see so there's ass relay right as let mostly I keep getting green light to keep moving forward. I realize there's no perfect partner that we're all impossible people to live with right here, even only about exactly, and so that is a more secure system moving forward and I'm actually were listen
to each other. We're talking we're getting to know each other. The love attics will also at like the sex attic just lunch at the sacks. It's all about, that right off the bat seal, the deal out of my anxiety to make it happen, intriguing. Yes, this is a concept I heard there that I was like. Oh I'm so guilty of this new. If I understand correctly, could you maybe give us a definition of intriguing? I think it's similar to what I ve been talking about, but it's more about to get that person's attention, also, aha right with the intent of being sexual. So you know looking at that person checking them out giving bodily base signals than rhythm, like all rhythm, Jane stir them out right. That's a great word, also yeah. It would be my preference that I knew every single female I met was in love with me. Would be my ideal world I'd live now, you're you wanna, go to me right away, have to earn in every single time, but I would like to go from person to person a person and just get everyone's approvals slowly
and I'm married. So there is some level I feel like is ok floor, but I'm not gonna ask for your phone number. I, but I think that's a healthy space- and I just did a webinar interpretation on monday- and I talked about flirtation- is exchanging energy without intent is no intention to flirt should you can flirt with babies. Lord ladies what you'd, probably even more exactly right and all that is about saying. I see you you, I see your beauty or your humor or your wit, and there is an energy exchange with that look. All human beings need validation, to a certain extent, the idea, those that we internalize it so that we can walk with confidence and know that were good enough on any given day, good enough, not perfect, but enough as opposed to people that have mixed. Dream narcissistic wounding where they really weren't seen as children. So it's a bottomless pit of law hit me see me want me, those we emotional vampires. We will become an
once it has been a success, and we see that a lot in sex attics also that chronic validation this: has your line of work been at all challenging your own life, you mean sexually yeah, Yes and no. I've gone through all sorts of generations with it, but at this age of my life, I'm very, very interested in the contract practices which are really about deep. In close connection with my part, now. I have a very urgent Eric stereotype movie version of what Tantric, as my interpretation as you have sex in China to have. Nor yet now that's not run out like the old system of please help me well. I mean I'm not an expert in this by any means, but these practices come from the hindu tradition and they are about the honouring of the masculine and the feminine a deep, deep honouring So it's not just about London
general sacks, it's about close and I connection breathing together, touch lots and lots of touch. It really is slowing down the sexual experience and building an erotic charge so that we are all our own best lovers. Looking for someone else to bring me to orgasm we're all responsible for our own orgasm. We need to know what we need and what works for us and communicate that to our partners yeah, but when there is a deep honouring of oneself in a deep love for oneself and a desire to bring that to the other therein lies this connection that can be. You know you could call it incredibly spiritual and deeply novel, because when you look into your partners eyes, that's one of the most. Novel things we can do cause it's activating the autonomic nervous system That's what people love movies, it's a very privileged
in our view the errand someone's face without any panic of I'm not allowed to do this. That's the appeal of right. About one of I think, propositions of becoming deeply internet is about getting present in one's body and being able to make eye contact in the most intimate quiet moments or a quiet love, not this inner like pornographic turban charged exactly the insects can be incredibly aggressive and sweaty and erotic free these moments of meeting, but then it becomes about a heart connection that leads racism, as opposed to a full on crotch connection, which is about getting off, which is what porn is right. So it's not an anti sex movement. My feeling about sex addiction in a recovery is about creating a very alive sexual lady. That has no shame to it. Right no pain
degradation unless you explicitly say hey, I'm at yes right, so that there is an intention reality behind it and that's the distinction. Ok now fidelity monogamy. What direction do you think it's moving them? I don't know now. I think it's gonna be different for everybody and that's part of what is interesting to me, is that you know a couple with last year there was a big article in the New York Times about Pollyanna, Murray and open relationships. They really did a good job of featuring couples that were an open relationships and, I think, there's a generation of people that are trying this out to see if it works, and it may work for some and it may not work for others so We may be moving more in that direction. There are some people that are going to be more some patio with solar sexuality and a sexuality the binary
is going the way, the Dodo Bird, a mini shermer that they're gonna be all these different interpretations of sexual expression and the normative standard is going to continue to melt away even in the face of the Puritans holding onto a male and female enema. Knock em is committed relationship. Yet at the moment for me that it hit me like a tunnel bricks in a meeting with a twenty three year old guy sharing about hooking up with Trans prostitutes, and this by all other measures. A heterosexual may arise and The way he was talking about it it like hit me almost tunnels like oh, my whole definition is dated, like the ever a twenty three year old he's just sexual, Sexual include sometimes hooking up with whatever feels good, yes, there is not even an inclination to label that. For that report, I think we're seeing is that mail sexuality is much more fluid than we ever wanted to admit to.
Yes, this is something I am now moving off of, but but its very still, I can admit, confusing amicus. In my life, generally had known lesbians that had been with men and women. I had never met openly gay male who ever went back to a female had never seen right I'm no longer thinking that? That's a fact, I don't know that's relevant anymore I don't know that it is, and I think what I see is a lot of straight men who identify a straight having sex with other men in all different admirations again, because pleasure is poor sure yeah and you know there was a woman named Jane Ward, who wrote a book a couple years ago called not gay. I remember look and now she was very interested in the Craigs list when it was up and all these single white men seeking sex with men who they were occasion. Man don't if they were all single, but they were all caucasian man. Looking for sex with other men and when she interview
them to find out why they did it and whether they were gay or not the distinguishing factor, whether they were gay or not was if they said they were. Nay said about this God, not gay lifestyle, gaze, sexual orientation as opposed to know this was about hooking up, because you can't find look up, look bathroom where women are hanging out wanting to have sex with guys? They don't exist now, they're, plenty of guys that all hook up with got bathrooms beaches parks, you name it. Yes, why big proponent, of the direction it's moving and we always tat this document. Are we love called the mask live in unanimously and I have yeah it's incur the born. They make a great point in there that when you do psychological evaluations on ten thousand people, what you really fine is that men and women are really different by about five percent on either older, which is encouraging and interesting, and I believe- and we see this from infant developmental studies to now right and the men are just as empathetic, but we beat it out of them.
All these things right. The one thing I'm gonna push back on as we see when you have an all male population, what their sex life is verses in all female popular. That's is to me completely undeniable, as someone many gave male friends in the amount of sex that's happening daily in the frequency and the as you say it don't go to a bath house and they might hook up with for deeds and under an hour you know, seen women do that now I mean like a guy, can be in a restaurant and see a detective guy. They can go, have sex and be back and for cocktails yeah, but that I think, will that'll stay consisted in future. I feel like I can imagine that evolving much that just this poison. We have testosterone now near
that's so I was in a nine year old relationship outside the one downside, the icon, it up its argue wasn't a downside is that we neglected our sex life right. It's takes the most work and it's so interesting that it's the thing couples marginalize the faster because of the discomfort and the time it takes an there's. This erroneous belief. That is something that should be happy naturally like right and spontaneously, and you should one and all the time he had all these mythology in unfortunately, just doesn't work wait. I gotta like schedule a fuckin day, goddess key, you know you may be gotta have a off yeah the phone and all these thing ray? I would be interested in hearing people living polymers lifestyles. They must have a very strict dedication to maintaining their own sex life yeah. I think it's challenging for people, I mean just scheduling,
people is kind of a nightmare exhorting schedule to peat, for I don't know how you do it with care without children, and I really can't imagine how you think. It's harder- and I d I'm starting to think of that monogamy may be for people that are more mature because it takes so much work and love vulnerability that's required to say to somebody after you ve been married to them fifteen twenty years. You know that. Sometimes I wonder if I still want to be married to you or I wonder if I'm still attracted to you- or this is when I dont like my own body, and can you hear this from a neutral place without taking it Finally, your running or making it into something where we can, he really emotionally naked with each other takes a level of maturity. What I am head over with my wife. I respect her. I admire her, there's she's a perfect mother, but I will think not based in any discomfort unhappiness. Others go. Oh, this is gonna be there,
to my life. This is the last personality, I'll try honouring the last year that can sound Don t like I'll, never wander around Europe and bump into somebody and get to know them like ok. Well, that's something I have to accept! You know at night, born out of any unhappiness snow assist ear. That's the novelty seeking but I would say that in order to start to- and this takes work really orient your compass towards the deep novelty in her infinite sense of her- that you can't possibly know right now cause you haven't known her five years more or ten years more because I think there's something powerful about knowing someone deeply over time. That helps us to know ourselves in ways we couldn't have known otherwise, because my knee jerk too. That is now. I know her. I can barely predict what she's gonna do much more accurately than she kept at a different kind of knowing that- and I am talking about-
ok, the kind of knowing I'm talking about was would have tie him up before when you're deeply gazing in her eyes gazing into the universe. It's a visceral connection. It's like a ripe brain to rape, rang communication body to body communication that's producing oxytocin! I allowed dopamine, initially yarmulke and with dopamine loves novelty and say you start to see her as God S, lover, erotic consort and it's out the personality, who she is and what you know. She's gonna say it's the essence of who she is. If I can describe it that way, sure the intangible inside of their own yeah the siren temptress, like all of the sort of mythological characters that represent aspects of humanity and nature of zones infinite.
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spin. The wheel with your house me right after master chef, premiers June twentieth and Thursday at nine p m. Eight p m central only on Fox and it has the biggest jackpot in game, show history. What what do you think about porn, but what we think are and remain a cause, and there is a lot of pro porn sites is sometimes it was even a feminist state. My right to be pro pornography. There's literature that says it's a great pressure veil for people, the innocent people say it leads to and sexual dysfunction. Others will prove that its lower, where that's about what is current science say about point will look. There is a lot of science that is looking at the way. Horn impacts, young brains. So I don't
have any morality about poor and as long as it's between consensual adults and not into porn with children or animals or innocence that cannot consent right, but about dolphins. Seem pretty our case. How do I do will be yours you're these stories about them train of sex with female swimmer? Maybe that why we hardly feel bad for that? I have not seen dolphin poor well, that's. What I do have a problem with is the fact that pornography is completely unregulated on line and that any child can open a laptop and see intense, hard core, even violent porn, We feel that a problem for me yeah because they look, we have limits on we'd in California. You have to be a certain age, buying alcohol buying tobacco gambling and there used to be a time when you had to be an adult to look at porn. Have a credit card. Remember and then, with the advent of the tube channels, anybody can look at any time,
yeah. In fact, you can accidentally look at it. Well, are you kidding the pornographers, know what words to put key words into sea got an eight year old, little girl typing in Miss Kitty pussy boom up or not if he popping and the impact that has forced by the average age of children, looking approach, right now is eight years old Vantyle, so imagine I mean, and I've had many clients who are now with thirty years or twenty years old. They were looking at porn from the age of eight. By the time they were twenty, they had erected dysfunction and there are study, and porn, induce direct how dysfunction in a bunch of exile or be screaming. Hearing me now saying that that it's not real buddy real for a lot of people, which is why I gave deem started boot, nation and Alexander Road started. The no fat movement on Red it amended online platform. Elsa move the no masturbation, ok. Pornography, and these are grass roots.
Young man that have started these forums to help each other get off of porn because they feel that their addicted to it, yeah there no therapist inside, they don't call it addiction. They just say we the problem with this only a fucking gaming addiction in exile, Korea lay recognise that how on earth could do not recognise because it impacts the brain in the exact same way? It's interment reward its job and its addictive, and so young, especially male brain start too. Wire and mile eight to these images very tenaciously, because every brain is different. So let's say your kids have nobody at home after, oh and they come home and they put that on and they start to look at it over and over and over again, their grow stout by at their freaked out by it. But it's like the accident by the side of the road,
stop looking at her again. So some people you know from in Oklahoma some are just more compulsive than others. Some kids will take it or leave it. Some kids won't be able to stop looking at it, and if parents had the option to opt in or opt out, then we would not have this problem, but the port industry- ninety six billion dollars a year industry worldwide and oh by the way, it seems like everyone's getting it for free. I guess the advertisements Zani ninety six billion dollars, and so are very invested in discrediting the research, and so it makes it very difficult to get any kind of parental controls on this problem at all. Yet I think it's also affecting expectation. It's me why people are moving towards the solo sex, because real sex isn't that interesting Marcus even get whatever you use? Ecstasy, while you're doing
the Americans, but his books is that I had a woman call me once a couple years ago. She was twenty seven. She worked for, I think penthouse she wanted interview me about six sex addiction and she said you know, and I dont want guys, my age anymore, and I said how come because they first thing I want to do is come on my face because that's what they see in poor they, I that's what girls, one and girls will also one of the girls. I mean young women in their twenties alone. Them will admit to doing it, not because they want it, because they think that's what guys one cause that's what's important, even though we don't want it or not sure why were investment sexy right yeah precisely boy and is a slippery slope, because irony with the exact turn, when all of a sudden porno were all about the girls guy. Yeah when they gave oral Sakhalin. I want to say that was like private sixteen
years ago. I remember going to friends house married couple and I was like I saw this fuckin videos watching porn and I want just beat the shit out these guys like they are all about. Just get these guys. The wife was like that. That's awesome. I was a little bit like. Oh that's, interesting, this woman, whose very empowered digs, new right and who the fuck am I to say that that that's where it gets all very murky it, as I mean That's where we come in to these matter of consent and people really talking to each other about what they like sexually, what they dont. What's, okay, what isn't yeah you know all women when it be spanked or have their hair pulled, but a bunch of women think it's hot yeah. Boy, that a lot of someone navigate that led by talking about here yeah. I think it's harder from young adults at people in their early twenty Asia, because there is still a lot of self consciousness about saxon sexuality. That Mozilla by John Crack Hour, but I did it was all about rape about Mozilla and
my wife and, at the exact same time, my wife and I felt ever both people virgin boy female girl, both hammered she's in and out of consciousness, He starts putting his fingers inner and he soon I'm gonna make you squirt this kid's, never even kissed a girl and you kiss first move is going to be something he song, it's terrible for her no question about she's the victim, but my wife and I both like also to feel bad for this kid like this is what he thinks woman would want right ride or all women's bodies dude and yes, so that's ghost then, to our lack of sex education in this country, yet this is about don't get pregnant, don't get HIV don't get assessed, std around, don't don't you and that's the beginning and the end of it. There is nothing about sexual pleasure about desire about
in your knee yeah and experiencing your own body. What this particular body likes, which is different than the other bodies, just none of it and do you think the foundational fear of it is that by talking about it, it'll encourage kids to do earlier I mean that the irony is by not talking about their they're doing so much more of it in different ways like there was this whole movement, I think about ten, ago now this was called. Were the girls got the rings from their fathers tumor? This chat, ouch ass. To do something I know I don't want to, but it was sort of like the more conservative factual was encouraging their daughters. Do not have sex abstinence only so they weren't having actual intercourse. They were having able or yeah so they could have a virgin. You re always loved that Russian. Well, there's something really! You knows poetic justice, and that is good news. Mike Janius still version wrangling over his nails, eggs, a hundred right and you get him.
Her down the aisle, what do you see as the future of sex in America? Now? I think that ties back to what we were saying. You know some people are predicting that were moving towards a more solo sex culture. The way the Japanese have that its burden summoned bothersome, and I think this ties into a meteor socio political, cultural questions, but ties in to the level of security catchment we have in this country and how raising our children. So if you have a more avoidance population, you're gonna have a bigger popular masturbate errors and people that are looking at internet poor and they don't connect with other human beings. I mean that's kind of a doomsday scenario, but we have to look at that. Secure attachment in this country has significantly reduced from the nineteen. Seventy yeah, and you know I try to resist the urge of just being an old man where it's things aren't the way they were when I was a kid sore throat implicitly wrong, but I will argue:
not going to get around the fact that we are a social primate by design it just that simple we're supposed to be with a hundred other primates in close proximity at all times. That's what were designed to live as so, I do think we're going to have unavoidable. Of the isolation and technology allows for rain innocent with all this, a and and inner people having sex with robotic dolls- and I mean, what's gonna, happen and I already think that the internet has changed the way we have sex, and this is the Good NEWS like with fifty shades of grain. How her interests in the book was poorly Rick. Then there was a movement and there are lots and lots of young women that I talk to and their early thirties, that of their merchant some kind of light media SAM and they
seen more in their more experimental, I'm sure than their mothers ever were. So it's really has stretched the capacity for pleasure and trying things, and that is the perfect example to illustrate the complexity of the issue, because someone in here that was being very critical that book because the females exhibiting visual signs of arousal, yet she was succumbing to his will and near the point was you can have visual sounds arousal. Energy can still be non consensual and all this stuff and then it just occurred to me later after I left, but my woman. So if the ECB avoid that part of women read it, women read him in old road like you can be mad at a woman roads. Are you can't tell that woman she's not allowed to have that fantasy right and one of the things people don't really understand about media SAM is at the Sab really has the power and the dyad this sum user to work
that me that I have a submissive, writes the script for what the dominant can do to her. Oh, she says you can pull my hair. You can spank me, you can't call me names, you can't humiliate me, I like roleplay or flogging, but I don't like electrical shock. It defines how this scene is gonna, be played out she's very much in control. She writes the script and then surrenders it to the door the dominant. Could she trusts that he's gonna do exactly what she said and that's fifty shades again there is an interplay between the two of them that women is not just subjugated to that mail. I'd be the worst dom because unknown for him improvisation. I would be a I would be under employed as they got How do people know- and I we were gonna hit at earlier- about like what people could maybe just be aware of his they whip up fantasies or how much time their spending there but
How do people know if they are sexually compulsive or if they just like a lot of sex again iris with this, because I'm super sexual ized? I must my humorous Sure I'm it's on my mind all the time. I am also aware of the fact that I am an abuse survivor likely that's up the part of that with the recipe sure does matter. I said enjoy it, so I'm always kind of like. Is it a pathology? it just who I am. I understand the route of it like what's good, what's bad, like the simplest, I think test is whether your behaviors are secretive, shaming and abusive, ah ha so, if you can go home and tell your wife about not your dirty thoughts, because no one needs to know ahead of our head on a lighter note, what you did that like if you went to a sexual massage parlor today are you you know, had a happy ending and you can tell her she's cool, then there's no
right. But if you're doing it and your spending the family money in your lying in your sneaking around, then you had a problem, no matter what it is, you're doing right right right. So if its creating messages or what we call unmanaged ability in your life, you got a problem. So when you start ignoring your friends, family? You dont really make commitments to do something because you never know when you wanna go. Do that thing and it really one of the hallmarks of all addictions is high level of preoccupation. All your thinking about all the time. I have this great example of a friend who I have no judgment of their sexual activity whatsoever, but they have an app in there on the upper round. Me none star in the planning of the fact that you're not present with me now. I consider that thing that seems like a red flag exactly because the primary relationship is with that thing, as you know, with alcohol, with the gambling with the sex, with the whatever the thing
as then you're no longer really have control over your life. Yes again, it just depends on the message that it creates in one's life as to whether or not it's a problem. This is just one of my pet There was a great, I want to say it was either a radio labourer, this american life, and it was about Facebook, one of the things that they accidentally scabbard was when people post a photograph and they tag you in it. You can ask that Facebook remove that photo and it gives you a drop down menu of reasons why you don't want that picture up in the original drop down menu. It said, that's not me something else I'm embarrassed and then other and what they found quickly with just having that up for like a month, seventy five percent of the people
clicking one of the boxes. They were writing under other, it's embarrassing. So no one will check I'm embarrassed but they'll right, it's embarrassing and they changed the down menu too. It's embarrassing and that became a very high percentage of the reasons people pull it downright, but there's this great window into how people's brains work in that its objectively embarrassed. I e anyone would be embarrassed. It's not my own insecurity verses, I'm humiliated by that are I'm embarrassed by the right that two percent, the second one takes vulnerability right and I guess in the world of sex. I do find sometimes that people want desperately the label sex acts, sexuality as objectively wrong, objectively gross objectively, demeaning, objectively anything any
out of owning their own personal triggers at their own personal securities, and I think that's part of what's driving the whole puritanical wave at times. It's also it keeps people from really getting close to each other. I think, because to be that vulnerable to talk about what a person really like sexually or what they don't like means that they are letting there or see them in ways that they ve, maybe never let anybody see them before. If I tell you what I really like sexually, I mean I have had. This happened many times. Were a couples talking about sex and the other party rules their eyes. So judge a mental and really is shaming and humiliating may just be there. I'm just so embarrassed at the thought of doing that. I'm gonna make you out be a weirdo. Oh yes, but it's really my sexual limitation. It's my hang up! You're right. I often hear people saying you know he's just a freak
That's right there, a pervert he wants to have anal sex with me and cigarettes. Ok to just not one have anal sex. He doesn't have to be a pervert because you don't want. I mean I don't wanna say what I'm approved right he's a pervert not improve. Yes, yes, yes, and so there is neither our true now, that's right that there's a real dishonesty and that as a pole Two. Are we really going to vulnerable and talk about? Why do you like it? Why don't you like it? What are you afraid of? What does it mean about you, because so animals do not make meaning about sexual acts. But humans do so you line up ten humans and you ask him about anal sex and one person is going to say it's. The most disgusting thing on the planet hell for a number ten says it's the road to Nirvana so which is it, swear. I think we get hung up as that. We're dishonest about our fear and then there is also the meaning we make of it. What is say about me if I like that act right where you gonna think about me, if I like that
because that's not how I comport myself in the world- and I don't want anyone to know that yeah is there any statistical evidence that but it seems anecdotally my circle with many male friends who have many wives, that the men want more sacks. Many lives like as light oh. I wish I had many wise none under, even though you ve run in when I married men married being misled by the data around me. The anecdotal data did do men, I know all of the cliches that our two rooted in in red the which is men, have sex to be intimate and women intimacy leads to sex all right. There. You have a reversal, which is an issue. Too bad design its hurry back right, insulates accurate. So it is that kind of Statistics- The norm will, I do know about statistics. I can only tell you what I think.
Nikolay archives in ITALY. Yes, it is, it is part of that I think, is just again biological. Yes, if you look at the work of Helen Fischer who talks about you know why we love and how we fall in love and that pair bonding happens, and it's usually good for four years, because that's what it takes to raise a choice. To fruition, aha, but then the novelty starts to wear off a man with males you got in. Oh, as you said, Tessa High test us grown and some females are higher tee in summer, lower t yeah, so some have higher sex drives lower. Once women have children energy all going towards their children. And then we live in this hyper sexual iced culture. Would you just I'll have to do
I've out those gates and down the sunset and boom right there, boobs or ads or something like me. All of it is about you know, sexuality and being sexual, and some people are gonna, be more activated by that than others, and so I think that is part of the the desired disconnect between male and female is a real thing, and some people just have more drive and less, but ultimately, and especially as we age. The question is: why do we have sex? What happens when it's no longer about DR? Why do it right and I would argue, to bond rain, to connect to bind or to really learn about ourselves. That is about the development of the south. Who am I sexually at twenty? I can tell Twenty I'd have to do, is look at a guy, and I was ready to have sat now. Is that man in their thirties? You know people are having children and install about children than forties. Our sex drive changes again. Fifty sixty seventy is at some point.
There is no drive and that's why I think it really requires a maturity in an exploration of who am I sexually now that my body is changed, and what is the meaning of sex for me now and how do I have sex today, it's very different than it was when I was twenty years old Is the body just doesn't work that way anymore? So when people come and they say well, none of my girlfriends have sacks I'm like, or do you want that marriage or do you want this marriage? And what are you gonna do to look at? What turns you on sexually? What you need, how you can have these conversations with your partner so that you can move towards the kind of sex life you and have not. I mean it's complicated, is really complicated, so many factors yeah, it is and is changing rapidly as it should and were evolving and women are empowered and they don't need men for funding. Real security model sexual pleasure guys just all these developments that are gonna probably end up, exposing even more of our true nature, because we want these interesting. I we want peace.
Battened down, yeah or driven by some out our terrier motive, when you're really discontinue like what you're taking care of so now? What are you doing? You use probably doing your own desire right, yeah, and I think that would be to do with gender expression, as we started out talking about that, everybody will express in what's really true for them. So your current book, The addiction as affect this regulation is your new book here, not part of the Norton Series on Interpersonal neurobiology or really looking for a scientific point of view, These underlying regulation, issues that lead to attachment that lead to addiction. Now, a sort of my theory that disregard later children, abused children become attics, and that's what I see in classic sex addiction as people just don't become sex attics by said, and is there a genetic component like waiting, alcohol addiction. We don't know for certain that Patrick Carnes one a Fulbright awards a couple years,
in the last two years, has been in the University of Alberta in Canada, collecting data saliva data on five hundred sex acts and they're gonna be looking at all of this data and they're. Looking for genetic factor for sex addiction right yeah, it would make sense it. We link on the surface of all the other. Diction seem to have a genetic sure yeah. I think it's Bernay Brown, who says genetics, load the gun and trauma pulled the trigger, because at the epic genetic component is the trauma the FBI agent. Epic genetics has to do with how the invite A man gets the gene to express right, sir. I have a latent capacity towards something, but the right. Environmental factors will have it expresses very interesting, so sexy addiction, as fact this regulation, a neural, biologically informed holistic treatment super into
seen topic, I'm glad that there are people kind of synthesizing, all these different things right we're. Finally, in an era where alike were combining biochemical stuff with kind of critical observations, will all the fields of science or finally talking to each other in this technology made that possible. Oh yeah, you're things start making sense and there's some symmetry all this stuff. Right, yes, really fascinating. Thank you so much for coming in relieving honour. I heard you run another book soon, so we can ask you more of their questions, good for you too, and now my favorite part of the show the fact check, with my soul maiden Monica bad rope doktor caught a hockey ass. If my name was Dax Cotta Hockey's, what line of work do you think I would have found my way into when you said doktor so medicine? Oh, if european D, you call someone as a doctor degree and physical doktor right now, the doktor
yeah, but you still com doktor. They always call those professors like dynamism in the bus architect in the world. Nine grandfather was a doktor. He was but not a medical dark. Now now let me ask you this: is it ethical, if you're doktor to examine your family members. It is right! Well, go straight to gynecology! Now, I didn't I went to that riddle the riddle about the more than has to operate. I came up to eight hours. Man he's my son yeah, so indicative of the time of that riddle over it let us help people in case it all now it because they're here and they wouldn't even understand, a man and his son or driving a sports car down a winding road. The father losing control of the vehicle. He said that he was infallible, but he clearly was not now your cross pollination. Your custom made me very You can go to Monday inspectorate and we want to know more about that about my statuses infallible. Ok, so the file
the sun or driving in an italian sports Cardono winding road in the father, whose had a couple cocktails loses control of Ferrara. It was a Ferrari dino. They called it. The poor man's Ferrari cause it at a six on there, but they ve risen in value anyways. He lost control the Ferrari they land upside down. The fathers killed, the sun is rescued from the crashed Ferrari, rushed to the emergency room straight into the Yo R. In the surgeon looks down at the boy and says I can operate on him, This man's my son. How is that possible this boy? This boy is my son. Yeah. I remember these people think no man that does in fact makes and people could not figure it out myself included, who we really are absolutely as I fuck is eager to little when oh, it's is
after an obviously to everyone listening I, who am sure is young they'll know it. Says more obvious riddle on earth in two thousand nineteen, it's really easy riddle, yeah, it's not even a riddle in just a scenario in the eighties. I heard it in the nineties. I mean I heard that riddle in class. I did get it immediately, not what percentage of surgeons were women in the nineteen eighties? My tracheotomy back. Ok about this, this gift, little, at least like cover fire for us. In the eighties, women only mean a two percent of surgical residents. Ah so
You! No. Ninety, eight percent of the surgeons were men ass. It was stark, you know, nothin, I think about it. Even when I asked you that question I'm still sexist, I guess because I was picturing like the patriarch of the family, being the doktor. Really what you want me. I can't grow up in a different time period. You come from a working man, that's this is where that's. Why that riddled with that remains doktor still, though, when they riddle was sad. I immediately was I go. That's his mom because my mom works you and I think the gaieties that was a little bit less, but also only two percent of surgeons Lorenzo probably never seen one I'll die, but look you know I can be evolved today today I can. I recognize my errors and even when I say it, I recognise all that's an error. Air the end an era? It was an error where women weren't surgeons? That's when I grew up so
my brain cemented in a period whirling. Two percent of the women were surgeon. Ok, that's unfortunate for me, but I will probably always be trapped. In my first image of a surgeons, gonna be a man I mean I can think my through my ill? I can still think that's of course, but I would want you to cut me some slight that we grew up in different areas share when I was a kid. Smoking was still very healthy endeavour and say that you did anything wrong. He took us so defensive. I know we're wine, the tape throb when I thought of person being a doctor, I went to the patriarchy exactly I'm going to stay up to the house, but that's not me being defensive. You expressively we're disappointed that that was my thought. So I feel compelled to explain to you why that's my thought, but it seems like you, are sending that no, I dont defend it, but that is the reality of you know. I don't know that make sense.
Your nose thing looks like a small pair of headphones my goodness they are headphones. For my end, breathing that calm knows breathing apparatus at length. Thank you. Have another tiny have had wearing two years, have a picture of me from their yeah anyway, I say at least three times a week. Someone tweets mere instagram me who takes your photos yeah? They re, always a big compliment to war. Yeah anyway. So it looks like you have to headphones on one tiny and one now can't say me with my name- was decks collar hawkers. I have an idea of what I'd be doing. What is your idea of what I've been I have you in a doctor's office, doktor video yeah and a lab coat. I think I would be a structural engineer. Ok, that's gotTA, Harkness Karate Instructor,
that's really tired. I got I'm sorry, but a waste of that doctor degree. Being a structural engineer now, karate instruct, oh, but just as a hobby, Ok, but you know why tell me I don't think you need a doctor, degraded biased. Engineer no no known, but I am also a professor of engineering, Oh her fast, sir animals, like stark iron man, stone at home EAST Anthony STAR, where, like still teach a couple of classes out like a prestigious university, but I'm also building like biggest skyscraper. Ok drive like and then do you turn a little bit: evil notice more sexual look in the class from my worst sweaters would like of the next sweaters ash and they went on designing my buildings. I mean like Armani, suits and too little slime. I think there's a period where you turn a little evil, probably labelling Sir Drink and my own coup labels on them structural engineer. Euro gets huge and eat
really see react the anymore, no cause I claim to be infallible, etc, engineering? I you know, I wonder where they lay one of my buildings collapses, because I didn't do enough soil Saint going for the bedrock has happened in San Francisco to know about this building they built their sinking way faster and supposed to Fritz, go forth to other buildings, Jays other thing. That was, I saw now that we're on a structural engineering. Tangent is this. Amazing airport in Japan. I think it services Tokyo can fly been airport, be they wouldn't claimed a piece of the water they put up. You know sea wall, the may dredged out the water, and then they filled it all with sand in cement in it. A built in island to how's the airport and they were out of real estate for airports, have ended it. If the fairy people off that airport to get centres
courage to build a bridge, but when I was watching this discovery channel show about this Noriega Airport, nuttin, narrative, concise internationally acknowledged that, like Marietta, something anyways so that both ends of the building very long terminal right and then both ends were built on these huge screw because they knew that the island may be. Would settle on only in that they would have to jack up sides of the building and at the time documentary, they were worried because they had already run through like ninety percent of the jacking up capacity, and it was only the first like ten years. Our know how that no real Is there an arena earlier now? Cobby now you shoot Zaka cancer. Ok, then, these sound, like any other ones. You said no Rita airport cod.
Norwegian international airport airport in the arena, Japan, why baser that's floating I'll, tell you? How far can tell you right now? It says nothing about it. I'm act as incorrect. That's the airport. That was a long walk for nothing. Kind of impressed. I knew the name of airport in Japan, yeah, that's cool. I guess I always try to find some, so Four aligning went along be even notice that has the bane of your existence. I get nervous about the people how to build that floating airport. That's now sinking thinking they might get corrosive. She die from overworking yeah and the stress of now intervene. Oh yeah yeah. It's can like those guys in Chernobyl, yeah usage or not Oh sure, now, please on associate
mom who are about this half ass. I was just thinking of how I plaster name that time really bad. I say: Chernobyl, Chernobyl, ok, greatly C h, pay. I share the men Nobel, like Nobel Peace, Chernobyl calendar. That's my son, an accident coming out What if they started giving on a chair, Nobel Peace Prize and p religion or good. Thank you. Yeah, ok, Doktor, Alex speaking of other countries, she's Greek Lou, that's where their full name comes from. Yes, and you asked what the greek stereo type is required. Eyelashes blue past it smartly here, but then I looked it up while yeah. Well, I'm tempted to guess the few that they say that they can't shake shook hands off? This heard by a the Greeks, don't shaking out it's ok the stereotypes, harry. Loud care,
free skies, gossip burs smoker and Mama's boys and daddy's girls. So I am glad we got out okay, so she said that nobody goes steady, anymore over and yes, I was looking at some articles and a lot of them confirm that data are going on. Dates does not happen anymore. It's too old fashioned to formal the best you'll get is coffee, a casual drink or hanging out at someone's house or apartment. We want. We take out to a nice dinner. Take yourself even if people do get together in a way that an older generation would consider an official date. Millennials will never call it a day. This sounds like it's an artist, and why I am do you remember that magazine young Miss? It was now, although age in the nineties were not a ring Eileen red wine?
yeah, I'm, oh no! I was more of a cosmic generation. I feel like every Cosmo cover. I've ever read was like five blow TIM yeah, your man state. Basically, the theme always like you better get your shit together in the bedroom. Ur gonna lose your man my right and yet ok pretty much yes, exactly as our sex tips basic men every now and then an article old or two about charity boy. This is all really emblematic of the problems because used to re maxim when I was younger than a lot of great articles in there. I don't remember any sex tips and there should have been rightly takes a lot more knowledge to get a woman off than a May ILO yeah. I think you're right of any one, three being educated, it's the mandates through boys rallies land by young man's penis in it with a jack. You wait a minute doesn't take much, but there are endless articles about tracks and tat sin.
Do this in practice. There is a realistic like yeah. If you're going to get your man, often two seconds which wants. I guess, though, sometimes that is promote, not bad age, nobody's gonna hurry movie, Article should have been like if you're, in a hurry, hears five tips. Yeah that should be one article, one time: nine five hundred articles every year, yeah, that's interesting. Neither article should have been how to get yourself off you're? Having sat YAP Emily held there might have been that they're. Probably there probably is. Yeah you're right, that's not great. Now we just have a pool and our parents there's not a bunch of both the stuff. Now, there's not a menorah majority, the Torah so bad, you know come out can you know what I'm saying here while they do say, though, that the prostate, as the male g spot of the ETA experience
but I've heard that failing of Europe that I've heard that either there right ear Polly from him I love all this by the way I never was indeed taking. Anyone on day was like. Let's go hang out what's to forced awkward right. I try stakes eight or any other awful sit across from each other. Your strangers steer directly at each others. It is my night of meal which is like already stuffs falling out of your mouth. You order. Will you get gas all its four? Yet it was play. Pickup, basketball or I'll. Join you at the Fuckin market will look at your own eyes, but that's the eight Thou flea market issues a cool day. It's like a fun day, Yale Wendy, I said, might What date would be to those bonds and noble? But this is once you know the person, Barnes a noble or bookstore, and then you guys pick out a book for the UN per cent. I read this on a blot. Oh
Also, I love the bookstore, so my anyway so go. The bookstore find for the other person. And then you go to dinner, probably pasta. And then you'd give each other. Your books probably pass this great wrong. It's nice, and didn't full and then roll around with your distended bellies yep smear Miranda on each other, love it, but the gas. Why? So you said that cocaine is a three time inhibitor. Why Does that mean so assess our eyes, which is the common anti depressing? The country be Zol laughter. All these differences. Those are Sarah tone and uptake inhibitors I or making serotonin and then in his reabsorbed, and then you make more right. So basically, what those drugs do is prevent the absorption so that the settlements floating around your brain longer before it is up taken up.
Get up, took rehab tat. You re up! That's why there's no past tense for uptake, I guess so. They had to say re, aha, yeah, again, Ria by area, Islam in furs. First, a juicy worse, is that you favorite one zero. Oh, is that your favorite song juicy bird. She another think different generations of bat. Like your work, you know it's weird, those there's nothing for. Second, they just pretend the baseball goes. First base third base because we know that right in your feel, a juicy too. Diarrhoea diarrhea when your sliding in their home in your pants, are full of MA goods, just as a great version of that he'd ass foaming any does a beautiful music when you sliding into first how he sang you, let the alert you see, burs down
ray you there's a verse for second base. What is understood in the two in your pants are filled with good also they had to call it to get you care on Saturday at eight, a m so you're saying that cocaine yes, disrupts the uptake of dope a mean serotonin and something else and denounce this cocaine and so the uptake palms and prevents them from a moving dope mean from the sin apps. This results in more dopamine in this sent apps and more dopamine receptor are activated this only Tarzan, dopamine, couldn't find anything about three times the Austrian some recently about animals, like all. That's why it's so good cocaine uptake inhibit We take the item. You had a ray, I gotta area that was part of my googling problem at first, because I guess that assess try. The r is re uptake right, oh yeah! Yes, it is
anyway, but I didn't find three time just but look email, king, Ria, ok, so the percentage of strippers who were abused. Is there a number on this year between sixty six and ninety? her sad as children, so I've got a lot of statistics about stripper, saw. Give it to that are interesting. Came I ll start with some happy once They make great money per hour. Well, average earnings, ok, seventy thousand to a hundred thousand dollars. That's a good way is: it is its according to Malcolm Gladwell study enough to be happy, rapid, right, right, right, six law, this new S, other it's a sixth largest and there's eight here. So I can get to him for sure. Ok, largest, U s market for strippers yeah, it's either dal Assorted, Lana land is in there and Alice Ortega's. Reg says to
their Vegas in their ok, so Vegas Dallas Lana those eighties New York? No, oh, ok! What hit me then you stand, Could she is making sense? I do a little more. I think we all know some more if you think ok norland now I'll give you clip, then three cities are in the same state in the sea of Florida. Yes, Ok, so Orlando? Yet Miami YAP Jacksonville now what for longer now: Lauderdale nice, nice, nice right of course, and then LOS Angeles, and there too, great job. I allow a giant highly finds itself on a list with to Texas City three Florida cities. That's right! in Atlanta, in Lima The whole make it rain thing, isn't it Lana phenomena rights the robbers in ITALY It has one more socially acceptable that, like hang at strip clubs, I think Lastly, we,
I'm here but we're here. Anyone like any deeds braggin that they spent the day Yet yeah is one at my college. What I went there. Oh fund, did you get a rare hammers is caught tapirs? I wonder if it started operators as an ironic names. They didn't have time to write corralled topless, her act Landry and I did a production of closer with apply. Oh yeah brought to the big scream. I might Nicholls correct. So then I went for research that, like out cause you're gonna play the Natalie Portman character. Ok, that landed. Gaza is me and to the guy, without even greater urgency. Then, when another time with my group of friends, we were your mail review now
Well then, I have also been to that for, like a bachelor party, many oh tell me about the male one, because I want to go so bad, but I wanna be discreet about this, but I think there's nothing Guph here guys out dancing sexy in smacking their penises, people, I think you know my dream. I've been asking for the same birthday present for seven years. I now we gotta do down under a front row. Seeds and I want to scream the whole time. But I've seen a lot of videos online up. These bachelor party that go haywire higher or smacking subpoenas zombie when you went where they smacking their junk in the women's faces, I don't remember being like on their fate like during their little pennies, yeah and then there s smacking their panties, which is clearly filled with Dong, their smack
their panties and they are doing weird stuff yeah. It's where the one ice of seem to the guys who say they do the splits in then they start pop in there, but cheeks up and down and adjust to me it doesn't readers sexy on a man RO, I see, but it's funny, but then people get wrapped up. I think they get really rather than and what's goin on sea This is why I wish I'd never drink alcohol, because you number. I dont have a good memory of that night and I think I think my friend and I blew- now what I think we did have like a special day. Oh, I don't really revolver friendly. I will find out if that happened at refer back next time, but maybe you got panties from might me. You know what I'm going to say this say if we, the male review thing I wanna, get hit in the head with a team ass. We want you're, not a bare penis,
in my opinion. It is you do and I'll be Agatha had. I think I would start laughing so morally value and when Lloyd Punch that personnel oh, if I asked for it, if I went and I was like talking to you and I was- and I felt this pitter patter on the back of my head and I turn around there's a little blue panties bouncing around hit me in the act. The way they do a donkey to getting a job a hill. Like that's what would be happening to the back my head, I truly think they knew would react in a way that you wouldn't even expecting you would like get really angry. I don't think so. Ok, they help law, we let's find out this could be a challenge. We could go. It's almost robs birthday. His birth is this week, so maybe we should arrange for rob to have some penis today. When the hour, when the air today today its birthday today today, should find a male review, their boxed around. Yes I'll, tell you why I like it the same reason. I really love that scene with Ryan in chips. Were
we're banging our penises together like war, because I, like things that feel uncomfortable and weird to me, I like me, you feel you do that safe with Ryan and that also completely under your control. You wrote that seeing you directed that scene, it was your best friend, the very person in the world and how MAC and I had. Control didn't have control. I don't think you like. I just dont right. I guess we'll just have to find out, but to me it's so silly, I think, would be the some silly years. I think men's penises are the stupidest silliest appendages in the animal kingdom. Yeah you stick hanging between your legs, so near did so stupid it they look with did you less like her for me to be banging my penis against Rhyme Hansen's re? It gives me the weirdest butterflies and my stomach, not sexual butler.
I don't know, I guess, there's a physiological and it makes me giggle Trouble in the giggling is really fun so right and I you couldn't say that we enjoyed the feeling of our penises hitting each other, but we ve loved the giggle session that care sure sure, and I just think of Rhine, and I were out the Strip club in you guys it pay these guys. Often they just started work in the back of our heads with those little panties on. I have to assume, I would say, glancing. Maybe maybe you were doing in these penises are kind of like legs didn't fully grow, a baby lay hind legs. Yes, an infant, even three legs and one is just a tiny forgot to grow. Ideally for us, we have three legs not for women
between each other. Yes, ideally, how lazy more taxpayers strippers sad months so yeah between sixty six and ninety percent of women. The sex industry were sexually abused, children, sex industry or strippers. This whole thing was out for us, but it is saying sex industry kind, so maybe that's like ours. Yeah could be yeah. Eighty percent of women in the sex industry said they wanted to escape. It had no other means for survival. Strippers are often substance abusers. One said he found the number to be around forty percent problems. Remove women who work in the sex industry have only twenty five percent chance of making a marriage. Last for at least three years, seventy percent of strippers reported they ve been followed home and forty two percent say they ve been stocked
four thousand clubs in the United States, while here I'm kind of an inside, look at the whole culture? When I lived in Santa Barbara, I had a high school friend who moved a sign of our after I did in she stripped at a place called, government, why now ok and I would often hang out at her apartment in her roommate was strippers well, I can- and I was kind of privy to that whole life's. I'll of theirs the others on alcohol consumption in some drug consumption and it's rough okay. So the Esther quote that we can really exactly remember, but you said I think, almost exactly right, which is a Proust. They say prized Bruce Troost doing so. It is our imagination that is responsible for love, not the other person. Basely wait. He said. Ok, are dolphins, sexual all, their so horny? It's crazy, bewail, rape criminals.
Are you now? I know I think that's just a rumour thou. I don't think that's true whales. Dolphins have surprisingly interesting sex lives, replete with various position, elaborate vaginas and a rare type penises penis, almost always a rack bulky. Some species like dusky dolphins. Copulate bellied to belly. Who so can look bar? used often seem to make a t formation or the male crosses the female. Exactly at her men line Heart porpoises are really unique in that they wait for the female to come to the surface of the water to take a breath and they leave out of the water and try to hooker with their penal, oh my god, yeah yeah. So one of the questions is, could it be that some of the positions are just for fun there, sex all year round, even when they can only conceived for certain periods of the year for recreational by looking at her
the genitals align. We can now say certain body positions are more likely to lead to successful fertilisation than others which might be for the purposes other than reproducing is at play. Is it working out? Hierarchies Ravishing dominance is learning there could be. Many functions of sanctions is not always the case. You know. Dolphins became a part of a really compelling dinner table debate. We all had one time which was beast reality. You know, because quite off, these homer Forbes, they would say oh yeah, let's legalised gay marriage, and then let us also allow people to marry animals right. So they would. They would compare something. Criminal was something that's not cry, something that's cool. Finally a moral and unethical because there is someone suffering exactly and animal suffering. If a man as humping guess about
no consent or no consent their victim, its harmful, but then I thought the one exception to that is I guarantee a dolphin would love to have a relationship with a female human, in which case that dolphin would not be a victim at all. We don't know how do we know also if the animal has an erection and starts humping, my presumption is oh, it wanted to. It was hard and it was started. Humping, ok, but this is where I again to some. Key just because a man had been a female dog. Is moral clearly the moral of her, but I'm a german ship humping a woman. I dont know that it is clear for me, ok, but just because you get an erection Does it mean that your brain is saying? Yes, I want that birds.
Ricky? I already got married men get directions. A woman just saw that they were erected thought well. I guess that means we can have sex because they were clearly want to doesn't mean you can wear them and married Yasmine man is married and making their ranks and they could still get erections around other women. It does it mean interaction does not equal consent. Is my point: There need to be. I arrive, agreed agree, but what about an erection followed by getting on the female and then hopping. That's clearly consent at that point, their driving the thing This is just one month ago herself up to this is kind of a Jonathan I kind of arm. Melodic moral thought experiment, which is a bet, the male dog. If it decides to harm We enjoys it. So what are the moral consequences of that? It is doing its interests
but we also don't know enough about canines like oh, yes, we don't realize you ass I happen to know tremendous, maybe that's what Doktor Dax or have a darker sir. He is by animals colleges anyways. I do think I dont. Let us put it this way. I put my final on fallen thing. I would feel very bad for a female dolphin unique ploughed, buy up human mail. I would go come on. Do now Chris just try not to just lay off a little bit, but if I saw a male dolphin, humping, a beautiful swimmer and they were both parties were enjoying it. I guess I just don't think I would have the same reaction as kind of goes back to the debate about the young. The male students have, with their female teachers verses. I die yeah. There's some double standards happening. Yes, that also three eyes. Yet no one's look here that unthinking Ike Oh good for their good, There are good for them like used our thinking. Some things happen
with that lady that she wants have sex with this dolphin like fundamentalists yes, not help you to want to have sex with something. That's not human human will again what is not healthy on the yes, your gut, says no, that's wrong. Clearly, immediately your gut issues like now, that's absolutely wrong, that does mean you can really make an intellectual defence of that position. I bet there's a division between men and women, so I think myself and my guy friends if we saw a dolphin male dolphin humping a ten female. I think we would all be like good for that often I wish you would think something's wrong with that. Person and knew she needs help. I wish that would be what you think but I saw gauge familiarly believe I'm. Certain of this. There are definitely women who have sexual fantasy,
about dolphin yeah. Oh yes, a hundred percent because I watch this show it was called fatal attractions and was on the animal planet, was people who had wild animals who there, were attacked by the wild and rain has proved dominantly women here, where these huge large. Caverns Van account the air and when they were being interviewed, I was like there's something more going on the measures they like cats. There was a career, they were having arrived alarm, they were having a love affair, yeah and you think that's healthy will clearly neck as they get eaten by these can exactly like. None of this is our behalf. A logical but right but I'm only making the point that there are women, sexually attracted dolphins, Hamish, weird spiritual connection with dolphins. They have you know. Many women have fucking tattoos of dolphins on their lower back there. No man with a sexy, our kids are bow or the
hot for dogs now, they're, not know they're, not look some people sure, thereby I'm sure there are some people on this planet who are attract the dolphin lose if you're in the audience, and you have sexual fantasies about a dolphin. Please please, please tell us on on social media and, let's you're not going to want to type. I have sexual feelings for dolphins, cuz that you could get rid of flies or something so the code, we'll be dolphin asparagus myself as a serious kind of. Is it in no way is serious people with the cats and serve those people have a deep seated now joining thing. That's not getting mats and now they're going into weird realm and it's a pathology and that's not
my arm, they died because of it. My fury on it is more specific. I think that those people had a crazy, dangerous, dominant parent that they didn't get love from and if they contain this wild killing machine it'll be like getting their parents lover approval abandon option. That's my We asked people that could be an option. I don't mind an option to the options. Oh yeah, you also that desire to nurture something also comes from, probably something yeah. I got into the ultimate. I'm gonna fix this guy NEA. Because I'm gonna make this killing machine. Well I'll be eleven years yet not hurt me yeah well yeah, but the dolphin thing again there not they're not eating humans out there, so that nothing would be a different thing. I think it could be bore purely sexual. I know it's nice
same it's, it's the most extreme level of wanting something you can't have. I also think women are attracted to horses, no women. I think soldiers as you like things done, meaner attracted to them sexually. No, I know- and I think that ninety nine percent of women who, like horses, are sexually tracking the horses, but I think some women who spend their whole life in a stable like riding and all that, I think that gets and so I shall address the waters, videos of women having sex with horses- and I guess you could say that's probably orchestrated by some weird yeah, I would say so year and I dont think that woman is excited about having to do that with some friendly road. Ferber framer says one having sex with me. I don't think so, haven't, I said, go through what I arrived, I was going to say I do think giraffes. Her pretty
a cry of alarm a pretty face like they have like these big eye. Lashes very anthropomorphic faces, but you don't want us acts with the giraffe no, but I M always saying I've recognize it they're pretty. I get again. That's my point. I never looked at a female Barrowman like oh she's, clearly feminine and pretty, I guess that's what I mean about women in horses like they might be like. Oh, this is a beautiful creature and it doesn't mean they want to have sex with it. But it's hyper masculine like so muscular, the penises, so large, idle, consider or horses to be super masculine. You don't eat while clearly you have used Next, you like this big yeah yeah. I know what a horse sucks. Oh you did you have legs are checking so the movement work. Girls were rings from their fathers. I couldn't really find the father thing, but their purity rang yeah. One is a sign of.
Ass to the practice originate in the? U S, the ninety Ninetys as part of the purity movement that gave rise to Christian, affiliated sex abstinence groups, yeah wearing a purity rings, typically copy by religious, bowed to practise abstinence until marriage and they're all having anal sexes. When she was, there was a girl, my high school, who was with her boyfriend for a really long time and and she was really religious and we knew there were gonna get married and they were not having sex and it was a big deal that they were not having Saxon. We were talking about at one time in this big group which was like well, I mean he's put it in here now. I think he just he just didn't common there, or maybe you just place didn't, Indeed, move back and forth: male, oh yeah! Maybe this is not sex workers or just
I've had a similar conversation in my youth, for the girls like what's on, have sex but just put it in one hour, Maybe I don't want to talk about mixed messages. yeah yeah. I don't so you do it in, of course, how they not do with the person like that, just in General Walker. Really now, if I were in my twenties and two thousand nineteen, I say I'm sorry. I need a little more clarity near sharing. Do you want to have sex or not, but back then to remain a virgin. Note was even about virginal. We shouldn't have sex, just put it in by the way. Everyone knows what the that's, why the just the Tipp cumbersome in wedding crushers was so funny in everyone's laughing so loud cause. Related many many people related to just the Tipp. We're gonna try to wait. When I can. You just put the Tippit a comment.
That's why everyone wives way it's a joke that made it until I says it is funny I laughed and I just idea of only putting the tip in his funny. It is for me, but I would argue that it would have made it in the movie of point zero. One percent of the population had some connection to that. So you said there is a really good radio lab or this american life you couldn't remember on Facebook and how they discovered the it's embarrassing thing, yeah. I emailed iron asked if there was a this american life and he said no ogre, but he said radio lab did a great Facebook episode about them. Censoring content and how hard that is that has nothing to do with this menace apply a jerk that yeah and I couldn't find I couldn't find it on radio lab, or he said, maybe reply all I looked. I couldn't find that road, but does seem like
yeah too, so I couldn find bear ever you find it altar. That's it I was it yeah, ok, great! Well sure, love Doktor Alex Vienna, Harry smooth and steady yeah, I liked her disposition a law to us very confident com yeah. Well, I love you love you and happy birthday. Wabi law, happy birthday we find a male review. Or I can I can. I
Transcript generated on 2019-12-04.