« Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

EXPERTS ON EXPERT: Dr. Drew

2018-10-18

Dr. Drew Pinsky (Dr. Drew on Call, Loveline, Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew) is a board-certified internist, addiction medicine specialist, and media personality. On this episode of Experts on Expert, Dr. Drew discusses balancing ambition and family, how gut instinct is linked to the brain, and his reasoning for advocating the 12 step program. The two talk about monogamy and sex addiction, they list the myriad effects of suboxone and they chat about our ego's inability to separate self and family. Dr. Drew details some of his public blunders, he talks through the criticisms of Celebrity Rehab and Monica and Dax engage in a strange Foley exercise in the fact check.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hillary. Everybody welcome to arm chair experts, addition of experts on expert- I don't know if I phrase that correctly, but here we are Uh today is a friend of mine doctor drew penske- is on he and I of when we met doing love line some fifteen years ago or something and then, over the years. Our paths have crossed many times. He and I are both spokespersons or spokespeople for the prostate Cancer Foundation. We're always trying to raise awareness for that and urge people to get screened at the PSA level, checked uhm he's a fascinating man, he's brilliant. I love chatting with him and I think you'll love. It too please enjoy our expert today, DR drew as address is brought by Chrysler Pacifica. My
sexy, sexy gangster van- that I roll around town and you sure do black on black means wheels. I know I still feel handsome every time I get into it. I got to say you still there. Thank you. Let me tell you about Pacifica. I love this thing. hands, free sliding doors and liftgate makes it so easy. Both rose oh, that's, very unique to the Pacifica yeah, you still those seats. You got all kinds of cargo capacity. I think I told you through a four by eight sheet of plywood back. There did some like a man's man who build stuff. What I think listen to me, the Chrysler Pacifica, is an incredible vehicle. I drive one on road trips. All the time with my family could be happier with him. Those kids are so entertained back there with the You theater system or watching their shows grew up there. Looking at listen to our podcast hold hands could be better Chrysler
is offering armchair expert listeners an exclusive one thousand dollars incentive on a Chrysler Pacifica to get one thousand dollars offer Visit Pacifica index com and enter, information. Dr drew Pinsky Welcome Emily. I hope you'll receive this as a compliment. I did. Very little research on you, which is not gonna like me, because every time you and I run into each other- there's never enough time for us to talk right. It's always rapid fire because we only get commercial breaks. Usually yes, but but what I like is that what you don't know is that both of us will do these things. Just so we can say- commercial breaks. Yeah drew- and I are both- you know- advocates for prostate cancer awareness and Andrew works. A lot with prostate cancer foundation,
in the end? I too was trying to help that so last year we did this us the media, to our right. Where are you we shop at a place of five in the morning? in you literally talk to a hundred and ten rate news stations around the country, and it's like every three minutes the shell will in Wisconsin yeah. I know it's a Susie and JAM in Atlanta I'll be on a three to one and then so we're both just regurgitating all this information about prostate cancer, an awareness and not what you should do and then anytime we have twelve sat. in spite tween them patching us through a much well. Did you hear that episode of such and such podcast, because I was I'm in- I was in I tunes you like consuming. I would I consumed everything there was from Yale in Berkeley and a couple of schools. I just used to be this great repository of the world class lectures. Well, they start pulling back there was simply deleti issues or some of this, and that and then you see still does it but
and then I was consuming this year. There was nothing left and you advocated some podcast to me. Those are, I mean no. No. I can't give a guy would lectures with this and you are not an ad out. Everyone was oh yeah. What about SAM Harris right as I started getting the podcast now I'm deep into podcasts yeah yeah, when you get that Brain candy! I always thought podcasting wouldn't be. I needed, like somebody to have thought out. The material presented to me that sure. Where do I mean I thought I don't get enough for a podcast? I was wrong. Oh goodness, goodness, oh in you're, smarter than me, and have much more on schooling, but I just got a bit smarter now. I hope you have the same experience I have when SAM Harris is talking to say an astrophysicist, or somebody like that, where I am just like, I'm I'm strug
three, it's my favorite feeling like I'm, I got it. I got it again. Okay, like in in any moment if I lose like a sentence, I'm gonna be gone. Every listening to secular, back your junior yeah out, like that, the the the episode that I love so much was the Jonathan hi. I probably was there. You have to remember Joe these two had had a a long standing war in academic journals and online. I assume and then finally, they sat down and talked and what you quickly found out as they do agree on ninety nine point: nine percent of everything right course You really diverged was a Jonathan believes that being religious is a part of our evolution, right that it is a by product of evolution right that we're actually, we evolved to have right right, we are yes, we must. We must have yeah as an anthropology major, the never came across a group that didn't have a creation, math and somebody benefited us. Is it as a society at some
Yes, some from some evolutionary perspective, but I'm so excited If somebody is, I want to save it, but SAM, you know, I'm a sermon. It was a neuro scientist that was my it doesn't mean that sorry, so I went off and neuroscience then back to medical school. Internal medicine in India, Bhaskara back in neuroscience vis a vis, addiction, addiction, yeah. Aha, that's sort of why that intrigue me so much because the brain has always been my things on Matt, I am, I a mind to blend with SAM as a pertains to most of his science, the most of the things he talks about. Yes at that stuff, I know he he is a true neuroscientists area is a p as generous as I don't have that, but it, but it's the domain that field. I so deeply yeah, I think it's one of the more exciting places that's happening. In Madison right because well it will always will, because it's so calm yeah, the infinite questions to be answered, but we've, but we've been
I'm studying psychology, I guess, as a real discipline, for what a hundred years now well since it's instead, since it split off from philosophy. I mean crystal had a psychology right I mean she has resulted psychologies. It just was kinda, considered natural philosophy at that point right, but but so much of this stuff you were never able to actually view right the functions, the functions of the brain in the earlier crime and we still pretty primitive. What we're using, even though people declare as though it were the case with great sort of certainty, this is involved. very vague and very very much in terms of in its infancy yeah. But it all is.
very very exciting, because we of some of the examples all give is not even in a Malcolm Gladwell book, they talk about pitchers right. They would talk to these great, I'm sorry great batters in major league baseball in their batters. How is it you know when to swing? a pitch right and they all had an answer? Oh, I can tell when the guy cocks his arm this way that he's going to throw a fastball whatever it was. They all had some reason after the fact of why they were able to be great batters and then as they broke all this down. They realized that from the time the ball leaves the guys hand till he's making the decision to swing. It would be physically impossible for the brain to do the things they're saying that the rain is doing perception of what they're doing yes in that it actually the the brain. Is they monitor these guys while they took batting practice? What was that they're, a motional center of their brain is what was telling them to swing or not slash it's instinct. Yes, I think the reason that there may
there actually be some weird communication between the pitcher and the battery on an emotional level? Will let me even really make it more complex? I would argue that, what's embedded in our right brain, which is those written, those visceral overseas sort of Marshall, centers holistic centers, is it shipped out of it from you should coming out of our body. Oh the autonomic nervous system. We don't even know we have to me. That's the final frontier. How do these gigantic webs of parasympathetic mats? That's it over our chest in our stomach. How does that process information an eighty five somewhere? Eighty percent of the vagus input, which is what all feeds into this one. Trunk is after it goes to the brain, and we were always trained. It was just the nerve that slowed the heart down and maybe made the stomachs, creates a massive turns out. Most of it is coming back from the body.
and there's all this information is going in and then it's embedded in the right side of the brain and that communicates and there's body to body communication that we just don't understand right which I believe is happening. I also you flirt with a woman, if not some of that, go right there yeah. The factory right there's like biochemical thing. Everything is picking all kinds of crazy, but having been in do your years of therapy. I was in therapy and and I'm as a patient as a patient right, and I was aware that there was some exchange. Some co created something that was way beyond my ability to consciously per our system understand right and it's were healing occurred as its rhythm. I think it's worth of spirituality. A lot of things are: is this thing between people that can be sure, if you're really opening, so it kind of string theory. So, there's that applies also well. Physics, interesting! Is that when you take, I I try not to take it over down physics, because there's so many in the intervening processes of sort of a phys
illogical, wiring nature that, yes, ultimately, of course, if we knew everything, I could explain everything through quantum theory we'd be able to drive it back up and right. I don't think we can do that. I think things I think changed things change actually qualitatively at certain levels of of expansion or growth yeah now, but you were just mentioning that not doesn't the arm. I remember someone telling me that the your your stomach has as much as many neurons are as many something the circuitry in there is as complex as your brains. and then there is some of the cut generally when they say they're, they say the get all those all the serotonin, your gods, it yeah yeah there is, but it has to be able to integrate that in process in some way, and we have no hope idea. What that is so we use. I have a gut instinct, it's that's what you have you got it exactly what's coming to you and how you develop your gut new, something which is did yeah
now come on now. It's awesome that is very exciting. Yet I want to go back to what we were talking about evolutionary biology of religion, yeah, there's one strange really strange thing about the human being. Is that we repeat drama particularly from childhood? We repeat it repeat: it repeat it. We would read it through the mechanism of attraction. In other words, if I have an abusive alcoholic father, I'm magically attracted to abuse of alcohol. If I'm yeah I get attracted to that kind of person. Yes, that's repeat getting the trauma now, the psychologist will go well, it's that they're trying to solve the pasta. But that's not my theory by the my theory is we have a wiring that makes us repeat, pass 'cause, there's no rational reason. We do it it's irrational, except let me propose my theory because it has an anthropological basis to I think I'm scheduled for you during a commercial
and so it goes to the religious thing. We could expand it out from there, which is that explicit memory only serves us so far, and certainly is a population we really cannot have much. They have explicit memory, even when we write it down. We distorted mythos dries. It sure alter it. Unless we ritual lies, and then repeat the behavior every year, so on Passover to never forget yeah this horrible night, we eat and do the same thing every freaking year and I'm never changes right and it becomes an externalized repetitive trauma, but because the external I just a memory, that's fixed, there remains an anthropological fixture that informs the population from an evolutionary perspective. Yes gives us some advance wells and survival, there's a ton of literature. I think this overlaps with that, which is
it's? It's our storytelling nature right and because the great advantage that human has right is that we have culture and that's our software and that's: what's able allowed us to expand and evolve so quickly and dynamically? Is that download new software to our children right there are only born with uh huh call Vince thinks that would serve them, and then we gotta load everything else in there. Yes, so this storytelling was absolutely a prerequisite for passing culture and information or there was any written text so and again culture being modes of survival. Yes, at that point yeah and that's why we're so drawn to story just innately, because that's how we were passing on all this acquired knowledge. That's how we were now morning was over a campfire in we were telling all these myths and- and that was helping us right. You keep the acquired knowledge. I I think it explicitly as survival techniques. Okay in enhanced mechanisms that enhance arrival.
uhhuh right had a look at shirt where to eat when the eat yeah. I don't need this kind of stuff. Where do you wash your dishes yeah or do you go to the bathroom yeah yeah and then you survive and here's you know if there's a war is what you do and yeah in in in the to to counter sales position, which I prime not doing it justice, but did you read homo Sapien or homo deus. What he's suggesting is that has allowed us to. Basically a mass into these large civilizations there, where you can get specialized industry right can have a doctor. Drew who's, doesn't have to grow, his own food. He can just specialize in the kitchen, because that would not be a good survival story. What was required? for us to assemble peacefully was a shared myth, but he says this:
ability for humans to share a myth is what allows them to peacefully congregate right because you're in a group of a hundred humans. If you come across in a group of another hundred humans, that was a very high probability that there's gonna be bloodshed. Yes, right, what what? What helped facilitate peace is that we have, we can all believe in a math right, so be it the math, the evalue of a currency, sure the value of gold? So now we go. I love you put money in the same category. That's perfect right! So you come across this group of another one hundred, but you both of you believe in this concept of gold in the US, so we can evaluate so now we have something we both believe in that allows us to exist and then, of course, that extends to if we have the same God, if you meet a high a group of another one hundred and they go well. We believe in Yahweh were like cool, so do we now we can get along that. It's really that that ability to share a myth that allows us to assemble and great masses, and so in this
we believe in the myth of a that. This is a country, that's a thing that we have the same nationality that that's the thing right. All these things they're, just missed that we make up and it helps us bond to one another. We had DOW them with delineates, Ingroup, Outgroup, right yeah, and so it's all very dangerous, yeah yeah. It is the thing that that allowed us to create civilization. there's one other thing that sometimes we believe at that I think was probably significant- is that we have to have a way to deal with their aggression, and I think one of the ways we dealt with that collectively was human sacrifice. We would put all of aggressions into this one, and you see human sacrifice in extremely traumatized populations where there's lots of aggression, pre revolutionary France, x, things like that and in our culture we just sacrificed one guy. He did it for all of us. When I we drink it, we eat him a drink, his blood, this one guy.
but he did it for us, and this just won't do anymore, because this one guy did it. We now ritual and eat him a drink. It Melissa yeah, which is one of the problems with Christian in the roman eyes. They thought it was a a card, a r cannibal coral called that they thought it was but anyway, but now 'cause. We have this ritual around that and we relive the trauma of him being dying for our behalf. We have to do anything, but here is so great, so you just brought up something that really still fascinates me and I'm boggled by. I feel like humans. Just as a species have this propensity towards guilt because I think what you're saying is they would they would sacrifice a person. Right near funnel all of their yeah errors in think we all walk around with a good deal of shame guilt, and so, if you can put that on the one per yes right that
oh, yes, that somehow gratifying and we get a catharsis from it too, and we feel collectively guilty. We relieved or guilt by him coming back to life. Yes, he's gonna guilt over, he survived, but I want to know what it is evolutionarily that has made all of us in again. I don't I'm speaking, anecdotally were end of what I think yeah we're gonna we're gonna speculate purely yeah. Why you? What would be the advantage of us feeling this shame are being so easily led towards guilt and shame Is it just a product of being very social animal? Yes, we kind of we police I each other's morals. There's a group in shame each other. If you have someone wasn't shame, they would probably be sociopathic and they would be done by the yellow yes, and with the it's probably probably many mailers, that's right, so we're gonna just go on the what occurs to us. You know, I, I think you really Tomic
gilts, primarily yeah, okay, because Jamie is different right. Shame has all kinds of antecedents in trauma and mistreatment, and yes, I am bad as opposed. I did something bad really. All the society cares about is that you did something bad has a high so so guilt is a very powerful Mexico. Really quick society saying you did something bad, but the individual person feeling like I'm bad shame is I'm bad guilt, as I did something bad, okay, angry yeah and so guilt is thing that if you never do anything wrong, you never feel guilt right. But and so we always do we're good luck right the best, and so then we carry guilt and- and that could be you know they could be shame- also search it with that, because I must be bad if I did that it's not just arrived guilty in the eyes of others, a judge myself, you know we, we we take on what the culture tells us right. Yeah stigma to nothing self stigma is a real thing of giving a lecture on self stigma in July and was stigmas out there right I've middle sort of what I'm interest
ok, it's the stigma, but the people around you will feel like yeah yeah. I should be stigmatized in some wrong with me. Well, it is kind of crazy and you know it's interesting. This was something that I had a whole course on anthropology, which is the western world labels people with mental illness as a permanent condition. There a schizophrenic, their manic depressant, their cyber activity there, this right, whereas like in subs, Aharon Africa, where they believe in which graph and and spirit possession it is a temporary condition that someone can have either 'cause someone put a spell on them or whatever it is, and they can be relieved of it and they there is proof of people overcoming illness is here we think of as permanent, and it's a language thing you're going to bump up against. This is where the given relative. I wish I could change biology with that right, but but it is, it is fascinating that culturale, you can label those things as permanent or not. Well, I would
Argue that it's probably more of that the outlying, problematic behaviors may not be perceived the same way. Okay, if you're a more inclusive like, for instance, I noticed in Western Europe. They don't they don't really identify. Alcoholism is just that's just uncle Joe who drinks, but the drinking uncle Joe right he's wasted every night. That's what I call Joe is waste a guy every night they they they incorporated into identity. Okay, so the behaviors aren't pathology, guys they're, just sort of recognize as part of the other two. That guy is rise that guy that I'm I was there now like unilateral their specific to Uncle Joe there I remember, like I was in a restaurant. I remember that was in Florence and there's a restaurant, and this is my waiter was wasted and he was dropping. just don't read the other ways. We just like that on the whole equator, that's that guy courses. Jabri dishes he's the alcoholic right. What else is in fact I thought wow
So when he dies it's like, maybe you should have looked a little bit differently at it yeah, but they just sort of adopt and adapt and bring on the behavior. So if you're schizophrenic, Joe and you're having visual hallucinations or something you might I personally ometer might bring them into some other something worth that those behaviors had utility yeah, you wouldn't a sick move model at some point, a full two hours to, I do believe that this teacher is saying, but I want to jump all the way back to repeating trauma. Yeah 'cause, I didn't. I didn't spit out my theory to you yeah. I think that we are more than maybe we're trying to win over the approval of the Father we never were able to yeah, I think that we often mistake familiarity with another emotion yeah, so you meet this person who's, basically reminding you of your dad, even though you're unaware of that it just feels familiar,
and things that are familiar are less scary than things that are unfamiliar. So I do think people often confuse feelings of familiarity with love that could be That would make sense to me, and familiarity is often what sort of talked about is the reason that people are engaged with this reputation. It feels familiar, it feels are gonna right. I, but it's there's really an attraction associated with it, and when I do with patients they will set, has really like lightning bolts. Are us really attractive? That guy nothing like all the rest. I've had all the rest were the alcoholics. This guys not like that yeah long behold. He turns out to be our goal, because our attraction mechanism perfect. Oh my god. So you just reminded me of my favorite speech you ever gave and was on an episode of celebrity rehab, which I want to talk about a great length because there's there's haters and there's lovers, I'm one of the lovers, but you were talking with a patient who is describing how they felt a
someone they are attracted to them, and you were saying: that's not love right. Let me tell you what love is right and you had the best description that I hearing some say about that. What did I I was hoping you would remember. I know tell people we we routinely told people was if you, if you have this repetition pattern and feel lightning bolts, it's that again yeah. You should feel butterflies, not lightning, bolts and tell people right and love the we'd say you know more about to complete people of being mutual and attracted and being able to fuse and come apart, but not being overcome by intensity. Yeah. Ten city is not love, that's usually what I'm telling them is intensities
yeah and they and they confuse intensity and getting high with love. Well, absolutely as a an addict myself, I can fully relate to getting myself very high on a traction, and I mean as high as any other drug like I've ever been on. The fantasy takes off and I'm going to be this person when I'm with this person- and I will no longer have any of the self doubt self hatred. Self loathing everything will work 'cause. I can feel it. I can see it. I can see where it's join in. It's got all my earthly troubles will be behind me soon, as I am inside, of this woman had so much yeah, it's humanity at its best. I sort of all were the worst people in the planet, but no say no hold on I'm going to defend us to know no, you feel a little bit bad for us that that that whatever we're dealing with require with that that were we need relief that bad
your human beings. You're like you're, like you, be like your humanity is writ large and it's full of pain. In Britain in certainty in all kinds of horrible feelings that overwhelm you guys yeah yeah, but it's, but it's that richness. That is what I love about addicts either. So it's smart to always smart. So you've got you. they drawn to addicts much not unlike my mother who married, no go ahead and leave I didn't know I was. I had no idea. It was an accident I got involved, so you don't have a parent. That was an addict, not that I could not actively nothing could tell I got concerned. My mom may have had the jeans or something more rageaholic key, so you weren't like repeating No, not that I could tell ok not in any kind of classic way. Anyway. Let's just really quick say that your father was a doctor, yes yeah. What kind of position? in family practice, family practice and your mother was a singer yeah after yeah. So you are the perfect pollination. She had she had stuff going on
she like. I said she was a singer and actor well, but for in that, but for instance, when I was about ten years ago, she was in a lot of these men know our films. With a friend of mine was a very sort into that stuff and he was visiting me at level. His professor and he was looking her up online. Go here's a web page or her. I'd. Never done that yet so here it is. She was married to dump of silent hill, r into it. I was like really late, that's interesting! No. I said the entire line of an entire life good for her, I'm so proud of her I had some very famous western silent film STAR Harlan, something what is a gene Autry, no he was known for so and she was eighteen years old, wife, form he was my. Is God with that in last,
and even if they had a great relationship, you have certainly died quickly and can last that's right and so that you know this is all that's but is it humor you at all that you have this weird hybrid of both being a physician, and you hear a entertainer on some level? Yes, yes, yeah, but but I eat eat eat. I have not done therapy parts of me were left behind link there be forced me to bring all my parts together. Really I could not a journalist out there no way, because I was being the perfect doctor at that time. You wanted your dad to really be. I am I guess I I just was fully invested in the identity of physician, great and and and I'm so glad. You just said that, because why? Why were you drawn to that? Because if I could just as someone who grew up dyslexic and was an idiot first through fifth grade leaving to go to less patient like this will come back like going to special ed, and I was the dumb dumb. That's just a fact.
Later, so they did not. They did not have the proper technologies to identify and help. with errors that presenting you for expressing your cognitive skills, absolutely my point being that enhance formative years self loathing at that. This only goes away and recovery on that I'm the one behind it would be over yeah. I, like I gotta, tell you overcame me body, brought it four times already today. Well, I'm just saying that, because of those five years yeah, I have spent the rest of my life trying desperately to be recognized as someone who's smart. I know why I was drawn to having some kind of credentials that say on your smart. So that's my baggage, that's one reason I shared So I'm curious to know: do you think you had any kind of baggage that required you are going to have to prove it world. You are a doctor if it wasn't your father, very, very different experience for me.
Clearly, it was something more about my identity and my doing a ha, because I struggle with it in college. I don't want to do it you're in it's, not me. Everyone expects this of me, so I was sort of expected to do it. Yeah. Now. He rejected it and I screwed around for year and a half, and I got very depressed and very had panic, attacks and all kinds of psychiatric symptoms And as I was struggling one damn it, but one thing I can't go backwards, I'm not going to take their job. You know there were, and I thought well, you do like science, but if you were to do it- and I started feeling better, as I started thinking doing these things that are I'm really good at aha and and the more I could move towards it. The better I felt and then I got excited and then I got investors will be, could use it because you made it yours, you exactly your size. But still the identity was still some sort of subconscious, processing of mom and dad and all that stuff yeah, but it all
it was mine. Now it was truly mine and I always remember, first year, medical school, I park on the roof of this parking structure and it always had. I had anatomy lab at the end of the day every day and I walk out in the sunset just go. Oh, I am just so grateful to be here, I'm so happy with so much fun. I'd, look I love my training, eight years of training and I really dug it and as it went on, I got more and more and more and more into it, and then I became a severe workaholic, severe severe how's that going it's a way better. Is it way better? I still know it's way better right now I don't feel I mean. I felt it that now I'm busy, but it's busy that doesn't bother I like it yeah then I was having dreads and I was not sleeping. I was was so some years and years. Yes, you. This is someone who, because you're not an addict, you weren't forced to go like be thoroughly humbled and then take advice from other people and do all this down. How does one whose doesn't go through that process? How do you
have the willingness to confront your identity. Do you evaluate your own identity and just have a checks and balances like drew? This is this is bullshit yeah? This is something you think people like about you and yeah. They that you do that lots of it, but I've always by very, very self critical but buddy. It got more realistic in an inter personal contacts again, and that was there right is there? Be did die, I got so much out there. You did everything everything I How many years were you eleven years? Really I did three or closure how that's to say goodbye. Yes, you built this. In a very nice house from way, but I I it was where they're all my god- and I would you Know- is the sort of psychotherapy and stuff and- and I fell into some promised I all kinds of stuff that didn't know it was sitting around right and towards the end like the last couple years. She
Why are you here you're not doing it? Don't do any work, I mean you know. I guess I gotta come. I need more anymore and I'm like yeah. I want to go in and she's like well you're, not doing anything and finally I went. Maybe I need to go and started working right. So I and I realize that something that I had gotten none of growing up was reproach mall. You know what that is. No, I do not. It sounds. French. The french word for CHI got when you set for coming and going reproach open approach and we're in maneuver your way away a common report a way and it's what kids do when there is getting the tanami they got my mom to watch me runner, go out and come back for a few willing to go that I have to do some septic more wrist like a magnet revealing. Okay. Why not? zero. I mean zero because you are so closely monitored in and concert in terms of it yeah, Well, it was a little more pathological. Your mother probably had a ton of anxiety or something she could control and it felt great until she couldn't,
and then I had to be rejected. Oh sure, so as soon as I start, Express' autonomy pull it away, you can't yeah yeah. I was either all in all. I I've heard so many little pearls of wisdom from you over the years, and I I don't even know where I heard you talking about this, but you were saying that what seems to be kind of the ubiquitous in our culture is that parents are trying so hard to to be such great parents that they're they're doing every single thing they can to prevent the kid for having any kind of discomfort, discomfort or upset, and in you also said that, because our children are an extension of our own ego, they shouldn't
really be shouldn't be, but yeah we make them as tension of. Are you go in and we, of course are inclined to to prevent discomfort in ourselves, so naturally expands to two things. What one is we don't have a good boundary between us and them, so their feelings become our feelings and from an ego standpoint they represent US sharks, two different things, yeah things that I I I find myself all the time I'll take my five year old somewhere and she has this defense mechanism. We get too much attention, but when we go out into- too many adults start talking to her as some kind of like conduit to us. She doesn't like it understandably in her responses to talking baby talk, mind you. It took me many times of watching this before I realized This is her way of saying shut. The up, stop talking to me, maybe or she's regressing 'cause. She feels scared, okay, either or either way.
I had to recognize that I was embarrassed that the five year old was talking baby talk, yeah, of course, which is preposterous. I'm not talking baby talk and I do the same thing. I think we all do the same thing with their parents like yeah actors, parents will It is set and they're just mortified for four hours and then and they forget that another address we're just sunset the other day and they weren't mortified for that actor, they just recognize them as parents that are older and you know, but you really take on yes, that shared family identity right, and so I just every time I hear like she'll start talking. Baby talk in public and stand it it's embarrassing, but then I just go: I'm not going to tell her not to talk baby talk 'cause, it's just my embarrassment, yeah she's not embarrassed, and this is somehow helping her get that person away from. Whatever. It's also societal, though, that you feel there they're representing you, because people will say like Dax, Shepard's kid or even, if you're, not famous, that person's kid did this.
so. There must be parenting in correct, no you're right. Will there if the family sort of crest, I guess, identify with the bad behavior of yeah one member of that family, but back to what I was doing, what Alec is? Yes, it is all of it all the to the Wi Fi, you knew they are groups and everything all that stuff represented. I personally am judgmental of some of my friends, kids, your behavior, I'm assuming my friends, are having a terrible job ruling out any biochemical issues. I don't know what to do with that that my kids, as they are now twenty five after a five year old, triplets and they're, starting to complain now but stuff like that- that I was the right No, I was saying this or that they were they were having to subjugate their needs to me and my brand or sense of me and I'm like dude, don't I said, don't do that? you want to go, do something or speak ill of Maine publicly. Please proceed yeah! That's my problem! I'll deal with it. It's not me telling you how to beat you. Please please, please, but your overall
point which I think is needs to be heard by all parents, is that what so are rather what you reap when you, when you do this, when you prevent them from ever, did feeling discomfort or or embarrassment or as laid out their heartbreak good call the gift of failure that parenting. Okay, we just had the doctor when the mogul on who wrote the gift of a of skin knee yeah, a same idea yeah. So you were saying was if, if your children, if you never allow them to develop some coping mechanisms, you will eventually send them off to college. They will meet the real world. Full of tons of disappointment in May will have no option but to use drugs virtually potentially. You know if those are good to them, because they have to have a certain genetic set up for to feel good right in,
right. Yes, I guess I should let you say that, because it was your state, no no! No! I just want to remind it's got that it was just a real light ball moment for me, where I thought. Oh yeah, man, if you don't, if you don't go through all that the off and there's there's other stuff that I'm worried about now too, which is you know I also to put under the category of grit an insurmountable task. Both are important experiences in great meaning, overcoming adversity and going struggling, struggling struggling without us intervening and saving it right and the other is having some sort of insurmountable cat task in your life over overcoming something that you think you couldn't do haha higher? I had a couple experiences like that. One of my sons did too, and I was talking about it- was like yeah, what was yours? My TED two one was. I was the crappiest football player in the world and I became the captain football team manager edges grid now at a wheel. Will at a little private
things that would possibly read, but I did it right and and then the other was when I was around hey you're, not the boss of me band in college and the desire to go to medical school it it looked it. There's, no way, I'm going to pull that off. I remember I actually had a visual image in my head of a brick wall that went to infinity like Jack in the beans dog, and I had to over that wall, and I just thought one brick at a time and up with the bags in the break the Cisco yeah and pretty soon I was over the wall and my son football He was not a great football player and a banker in offensive line and same school problem with a math degree he had to get to- and he just did this amazing job and this impossible discipline right and both he feels like that'll be such as handle anything now isn't the most prideful moment you can have when you watch your kids overcome something they're, not
immediately great at it. Yes, I think, except they will let you know that because I, although I thought it was really important, it's exactly what I wanted him to experience. He of course, but for the misery of its life, so they got to let you know that it's not something you can hold the pride for very long yeah. Well, you just Let them know that yeah, that's right, but I will say I haven't had two kids now my mom, I am daily shown the. How much of this recipe is just nature right, Lotto, my five year old with these polls in the and in the patio they go to the rough and she started trying to climb this poll in she just she spent ninety minutes
doing it failing failing family family until she finally climbed it and touched the roof, and I'm just watching the whole thing, and I'm like. I have nothing to do with this. I can't have instructed her to do this. I can't reward her for doing it. She has it in her to just keep out that thing and what a blessing right- and I don't know that the three hundred last night, but we will find out the two girls- are playing two girls yeah, so yeah, you know there's only so much. You can kind of take credit for yeah yeah screw things up, though I think it's mostly what we do is parents yeah, mostly screwed things out, yeah and so the the being recognizable- and I don't want to put in a position- we have
too much of your kids are saying to you what what do they? What do you think you could have done better? What should I be doing better known because I I'm I think about it? Quite often yeah I'm part of it is it is what it is right. I cannot be famous. I can't turn a switch on it right and I, and I and I was in full survival mode triplets and I had to make ends meet and I that I couldn't be home right could have been home more yeah, midway, Lester, Oven yeah. Could I have been less anxious because I was super anxious back then for sure. Could I have interfered with some of the stuff. My wife is doing that they're complaining about now yeah yeah, but you know that's her eye and she's my marriage,
your mom, and I can't really change control. Her necessarily right- because I tell this to new dads, I'm like, if you want to say and how these kids are going to be raised. You gotta change, half the diapers and you got a Waco yeah him at the time only entitled codes, it's it to to equal and levels of advice. Is you are putting into it and I think traditionally it in the past maybe get dad's gone so much that he just really isn't entitled to kind of yeah a. What do you think should be being done are where I was active, very active and in there, but but my daughter says not enough right. I know it also in this is what I think of sometimes too, is that I don't know where the concept comes from, that you're you're entitled to perfect parents in They should be there with you all the time 'cause. I certainly felt that way like, but at the same time that's not really so much going on right now, food home right, exactly right, and so I'm just keeping myself they need to have kids. Then you have kids once they have kids all stuff, because you realize it's just it's just you gotta survive, especially with trip
Let's see how we would know I would have left. If I were you, I would have just on the fact that I was going to be a lot less than other people. Do that yeah it was alot with triple parents, a lot for humor, that's what they sat us down. There said reduced it too, because no marriages make it through this right. it's like having an autistic child. Your rate of divorce goes through the roof, although I don't know we were fine anyways. We were partners than all the way we really had when we decided to go for it and do the triplet, but before that we couldn't imagine reducing, which is something we couldn't bring ourselves ethically morally. Today, if you of course, but but we were being courage to do it and they can do that, they can give an abortion to one of the selective reduction here. Oh my goodness, I had no idea and- and we we We can add a hotel down there. Gonna start going, do what we're going get it literally had this image in my head. Finally, I like Sunday morning I was like chips are all in that said they just ship, sorry All in all that we are in an parenting. That's it! We stay tuned for more
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cash app will send five dollars to CASA Columbia, Gorge, which is a wonderful program that helps kids info. Care. It's a true win, win so download the cash app and get your cash card now and use it I'm really interest me we're at a wedding not too long ago together, and you you said which shocked me me is that you it want your children to pursue medicine Now that is, that a blow your mind Monica! Do you only one circumstance? I work if it's they're calling, if they must of I I it's a. I guess that it's part of my identity. I could imagine having not experience it and you know even I've. I've not been as active my practice last couple years, and so I've been backing away a little bit in and it's changing my perspective, but but if you're talking for years about what I can. I can imagine not understanding all these idled. I know how to get your life without this information right now, I'm sort of liking the noise goes,
I can talk about it yeah. I understand how people can get through now, but by the same token, if you want to be a physician, it's the the real doctor. Part of it is so painful. Now it's so difficult and so on. How may I well you can't you want to get to do it? Your your, unless you are outside the system like a plastic surgeon or something Okay in the system. It's you know it's ridiculous. The system is being like a Medicare turns cover so that you don't get to do your job.
All you're doing. Is you mean example, all you're doing is administering paperwork and taking liabilities. Essentially, all you do. I mean you can make judgments and you can do things, but what you can have your patience is, is second guessed by everybody, so not Medicare Medicare gives you thirty six dollars every fifteen minutes, okay for patient, and for that fifteen minutes you have to is a requirement of all the things you have to document this pages of stuff. You have to document the fact to get that thirty six dollars that fifteen minutes and then, if you don't dot, crossed some. I across some to you, hear from the Office of Inspector general they're gonna federally charge you okay, for having up with the right code in or something crazy like that. Yeah. If you, God forbid, is a bad outcome. Will now you've got a lawsuit and everything you wrote down is now gospel and whatever you did and what your judgment, size, police or as normal assault, absolutely all the time. Every interaction right, that's just Medicare, I have those. Are you say that I've noticed that my appointments have become really computer driven so there,
guy can design the dog rolls in him, pewter right away and he's going through. Well, that's the great well, a chronic medical record, which has been a catastrophe for most beat most doctoring and because you're for spoke, you you're doing all your work on the computer, not retention. J are sincere in their future line. You know you're, not you're, not doing any care, because you have to do that in There are better way or yes, like let the market determine the relationship between the doctor and the patient. Let the doctor doc reasonably well. Let the doctors defense in a tort situation be that he or she, decision was based on my judgment. Here's why I made that decision and that should be a defense. right as opposed to I was negligent. I didn't pay any attention. Well, that's that's a problem, but if you have reasoning their new. This is why I did it that should be good enough. Yeah nothing's good enough, then, with insurance. Companies. They literally determine the care you can deliver like how long is our office. I mean I can
I tell you how many this was most of my life in addiction, medicine was spent, trying to get resources for patients, not taking care of the patient and then dealing with legalities and administrators and meaning trying to get insurance providers to pay or treatment or aftercare, and it never in they never did it. The patients that needed six months of treatment, the maximum better I'd ever get be like seven days really seven days and then, when you when you discharge, then when you go to the patient you go. I want to bore you, but this is my the burden of position these days, but you have to patient. You go! Listen. If you stay the extra day, the hospital we can make a deal with the hospital, but they're going to charge you and it's going to be a lot of money. So I don't feel comfortable burdening you with that, but I think you did a three weeks or two weeks in the hospital. Whatever it is and yeah you were suicidal yesterday, you're still having her own, withdraw whatever it is, and they're going to call my insurance company. They call insurance company Insurance Company says oh well. If the doctor will just give us the information, of course, we would extend your stay
don't tell the patient. Is the insurance company sets the criteria of that information and you don't meet that criteria they're in their criteria, not my criteria, random insurance company criteria. So then the patient gets angry and isn't with me. They split now the patient, the doctor, the again the aid do. What's it called a doctor doctor review with me some more time spent on the phone trying to make my case to another doctor says get the patient out tomorrow, so I discharge base tomorrow. Let's see the page goes and kills himself to go. We we don't practice medicine, that's doctor, Pinsky's name on the chart. There we don't practice medicine, that's his name. We have nothing to do with this. He does charge the patient ha. Then you make a complaint, the insurance company and they go over your troublemaker done Thank you will talk to your hospital ministration about this, then the complaint of hostile ministry. If you can train your in, you can continue to make trouble logo really don't like our business practices, will decertify you in the entire hospital wow. That's the that's! The game is about some very and
fun and all you're trying to do is take your patience. Is all you want? It's are you trying to do right, it's terrible and what what what drew you out of school to do. Addiction accident is an actor access at 'cause. You need your residency, some internal medison doing interesting internal medison. I would be a cardiologist, ok and I was doing in the mood lighting in a psychiatric hospital down the street and all the addicts were there getting detox as I do, you can make a discipline at a detox are weird, I feel It's a heroin addicts in our clocks. I didn't know there was some sort of Ross. right, so I right so I became an expert in detox and see having to see lots of alcoholics and addicts most the most dangerous detox right, you can hear have complications with the straight detox, alcohol and benzos Probably yeah. Benz is a very rough rough, very you and I were talking when we were doing that. Weird satellite tour. Is that the thing? No one talks about right that everyone's talking about opiates and it's certainly a huge epidemic pandemic.
But benzos there's so many benzo addicts in it's one of the hardest things to quit right. So here wrapped his arm in an exam axe at a Van valium as little as a pan, hidden epidemic right now. Ninety six percent of Oxycontin deaths included a benzodiazepine or other substance rights because those two combined to release the pressure breathing. Yes, like Prince, was on enough fentanyl to knock him off his feet. What is Xanax the made up, stop, breathing right, it's a very lethal company, yeah and yet prescribe all the time in conjunction yeah, right and yeah, and so you know so that physicians learn that the way to end a an appointment is open your prescription pad. That's the quickest way to open it and appointment and for drug addicts alcoholics, that's the worst. You could do us now what they need yeah, and so you know there's this horrible problem going on now I don't blame my peers right. I blame them, but I understand why they do what they do. They are trained
clean at the dinner of time, they're being pushed back when it's your second history of it's essentially that a couple of doctors in it with very spurs information declared that opioids were not addictive right and that we were under treating pain, yes and they developed a li, a a alliance of a patient advocacy groups and attorneys and then paint specially groups that we were. We were in the dark ages and pain, and a religious fervor emerge to treat pain, aggressively yeah, to the point where ninety percent of the opiates prescribed on earth were prescribed in this country, pain became the fifth vital sign that was done by Joint Commission hospital accreditation was a mistake that vital signs, Paul temperature blood pressure respiration pain level? Oh ok as important as your pulse. That's how insane we got right, if you didn't have an if you didn't have a happy face, you were now
only were you practicing for medicine. You were not just a guilty potential malpractice, but they started putting doctors in jail for inadequate the pain, wow and finding them outside of their malpractice for reckless negligence, awhile for inadequate treatment painted sent shock so it's really incentivize them prescribing people got crazy. And people like me who are the whole while screaming about it. We were marginalized. We were told we're old fashioned. We were dinosaurs, we liked. We prefer people to suffer yeah, I mean it was just really horrible time, and still I hear some of that stuff, yeah well there certainly is a time for right. So so my step father just died of prostate cancer. When I was up there and I was in charge of administering. I mean the and everything in Macedonia and Liquid Oxycodone cotton, but that's what it's designed. Yes, it is. I will saying so for in that situation it was saying to to my mom and everyone there, man, thank God. We were doing this in the eighteen. Hundreds like I I just read the list is a
grant biography. It was life changing. It was then that life changing biography, yes, unbelief unbelievable you I had a buyer for strong with absolutely and it's showing all whole new light to me on race relations or why black folks are where they're at you have this notion that that you know they have full access to everything in eighteen. Sixty eight is for absolutely it's a the fan for five minutes they had and then completely up, but anyways he died of throat. Cancer and when you read a description of dying of throat cancer in the late eighteen, hundreds there there? I can't imagine anything worse. You don't even drink water was like like battery acid amiss, yes, and they were holding what they describe pulling aft, all my god. Yes, the clumps they would come to excavate,
so he could breathe. So having just read that is is is has sad ages, don't email is ends of my stepfather. I I had was incredibly grateful that we live in an era where you can yeah, for the most part avoid the ugliness that, but, but so you- and I also share a view that is kind of a little bit controversial. We both are are- are pretty critical of Sabah
yes in it but I've I before we get credit I'll write it. I am here's the here's waves. I framed my criticism. I'm criticism of the excessive enthusiasm for it. Yeah like it's up here- oh my god, yeah that that's really dangerous so before I even the err, my grievances, with that. Let's, let's just say that I want to make their case for them the proponents of it, and that is there's this huge opiate epidemic right. There are tons of young people dying, the average. You know, tens of thousands are dying a year and those people are going to go, get sober in. So what you well We don't know we don't know, but we don't know but they're, but they're at their argument would be that the relapses are so chronic. Yes, and so many that's unrealistic to save it's unrealistic that they're going to get sober, and so what you're really determining is do you do you want to save this person correct? Let it is is a our goal to save lives or is our goal to restore to a flourishing existence right? Was it two different goals? There two different goals. I am not interested
in the former I deserve this at all? I wanna do knowledge that I a hundred percent. I I appreciate that point yeah, If I was the return of a nineteen year old, I don't say it. I'd rather have a little zoned out in a lot of the the late or whatever so yeah, I'm very sympathetic to me too, with it that's Go ahead, I'm not interested in participating in that that's, not a form of treatment. That turns me on right, I'm interested in taking what got me into addiction treatment as well as moonlight hospital. When I was doing all those detoxes, I watch these people go from dying. Young people with rich lives, ahead of them dying to amazing- and I was like nowhere in Madison. Is that happened? What is the I do basically beating terminal cancer. no idea n n not to be durable but like and then becoming like by it's right at the other side of it. Like I was stunned. I was stunned. I couldn't figure out what was happening.
Yeah, but I wanted to Know- and that's that's what I got me in and that's what I'm interested in helping with yeah. So did it begs the point, though, how do you select the right, brace patient for the right tree We don't really know that yeah yeah we have instinct would help us because it is such that stakes could not be higher if you're trying to evaluate whether someone will will be able to use a twelve step program and maintain sobriety them and have all the wonderful discoveries I've had through that or were they just never get that may just need to be on that or is or some intermediate something they get motivational enhancement of C b, T therapy, while there are two principal but at least tell people what what are the effects of Suboxone you get very high you're on a drug you're on opiates. If I you took it now, you wouldn't you have trouble working right. right. No, not ok. I have used to abuse. Suboxone lots of right is not
similar to the methadone response is the same. It's a it's a different thing, but it's the same idea and it's the same thing that physicians have done since eighteen, ninety which what it, how do we treat alcoholism in eighteen? Ninety with morphine sulfate? How do we treat morphine addiction with amphetamine and lectured shock therapy and ins, all kinds of crazy stuff? We always go to the replacement we all, because that's what we do. We, Pharmacology is doctors. What else do we do? We don't do a lot else answer tool, kit, yeah and with it would nice to go home with these people and police now right, which is my point about twelve step. That's the only way that could happen, and they do need that yeah and but anyway, side bar is, if you're reading this stuff about Psilocybin is being used for addiction. Recently, it's kind of compelling, even though I'm never going to try it I'm trying to work on some documentaries on this topic. I mostly Psilocybin LSD, I think most are going to be in the life going to be interesting in life like micro dosing.
No that's a mood intervention like how to try to deal with your mirror. essential problem right, yeah right, but I'm not surprised people are trying. So so I don't see how we were, there was a great I listen to a really good podcast owner who was on TIM Ferriss is any had a guy and he was saying what's interesting about Psilocybin Sis, your NEO cortex right is where your identity lives. None the that's! Not true! That's not true! We don't we don't know because, like a dimasi down a c thinks it's it's, this entire big sections of the parietal in deep in and by the way were embedded in a body, that's part of who we are too okay. It is much much more complicated than that. Okay, or for the sake of this argument, let's say that it exists in your. You know the last area of your brain to avail yourself concept, yeah, yeah, yeah
Danity yourself, your sense of self okay, and that what happens when you take Psilocybin zero Esty. Is it actually show up to that area of your brain off? That's true to a degree, yes, that you can actually start experiencing the connective ness of you and the rest of everything. Plan a which is really hard to do. Yes, while your sense of self is it'll, engage and if, by the way, your your feet facing and of life, which is the end of self, and you fear that experience you can have that experience and turn out and feel okay about it all right there, that's wild, probably why it's useful one of the reasons. I knew all that that said it's of identity and so yeah and then go through it and go hey. You can be ok without the self and you can connect to some. There is something besides the self out there right and that makes perfect sense for end of life doesn't make great sense for addiction, 30s, ok, so so box
what are some of the side effects? So you are altered, Europaea you're on a little bit. It's just it's just in pharmacology, different, binding structure, different intensity, that you know just different pharmacology yeah, and it's it's definitely better. But but it's not a lot different than just saying he was just give right in here is where our control, it will control, and it's important you get this out here, because it would be very easy from the outside to just start looking at statistics, and there are a lot of compelling statistics to support Suboxone use right, so one of them is what it survive a year a year after, using that, that's where most the data is collected in the problem, the the again but you're zeroing in on what bigger problem, which is really to have meaningful data. Out of the kitchen you five you're down, because right, because this is what I get to see next- is the fall, the fall out after the first year, yeah, the kind of stabilized and then they start using other drugs, and then they start messing around us. A box they're still using addict right and that thing progress So I think we are saying yeah good, a good chunk of those people that even on it for a year, there's there peeing.
first on, never tested for it, not that data includes testing for a whole yeah, yeah yeah, so they're not looking for benzo yeah, and that makes it very problematic and that's we just and there's a big market that you they sell it amongst. They sell it to get heroin. The young ones all do that. They all do that, and so the issues is is that the data is not long term enough right, so it switches I'm generally problem with addiction, Madison, yes and then another great point you brought up was that the statistics for twelve step programs aren't great. they're, not very wrong was about to you know, like you say that, for you, hysterectomy the. If you just look at the data it says, let's say: Hazelton is the most successful treatment facility in treatment is different and foster. Okay right! Well, let's just go through that. So one would be you. You know the the highest percentage of recovering addicts out. One treatments is like in the 30s right. It's like thirty, six percent yeah. It depends on how many treatments all the dirty little secret, is
or a severe alcoholic takes an average of four treatments in five years to get one year sobriety right. That's just the way it is a bummer yeah. The way it is yeah takes awhile, but from the outside, if you're, just a late Person who's ever dealt with addiction and on any level, and you gotta wait a minute. The best treatment facility in the country is only getting a third of the people sober, that's a little disheartening. I could see where they would be critical of that, but here's what the point I want you to make because we talked about it is unlike other diseases or we can monitor the effect of the treatment by going. Ok, this person had cancer. We gave him this level of chemotherapy and they This result. A a is not a pill right, so there are so many elements of a there. Is you go to meetings? That's one of them, the other one. Is you recommend to get a sponsor? You start talking to this person another one. Is you work, the twelve? Always
you have to do right. Another element is, you, do provide service and you help other people, so nobody ever measures that, when their studies exactly so because there are these five pillow or whatever. However, many there are to just say Some guy walked into a name, meaning that's a good judge of whether or not that whole program works, win right. Hold programs taken holistically that the numbers probably much more significant than what he will do. It works right, the new I know that- and I know that and it's hard people on the outside, to recognize that there's about to be a Cochran analysis, which is the state of the art now see the r meta analyses. Okay. This is a compilation of all the data that's available being published by going to our John Kelly at Harvard's, getting Keith Humphreys in in Stanford's behind this and the data for abstinence as good or better than any treatment out there. For a for me to relate societies. Generally, whether it's smart recovery well step whatever it is, they're outcomes for abstinence are extraordinary. What is the alternative to absent, Suboxone and other, which me some other met, is
behavior therapy, our visual Hanson therapy, okay, replacement therapies, some combination of these things and and these things are helpful, but it, but I don't think that you know without twelve step. If your goal is to restore that person's life, he is free. Just there are enough band power, the world did do what's necessary to get that attic where they need to go right and it's Is there an works, and now we have the meta analysis about to be published, showing you that it works yes and then the other is getting people engaged. This is another piece. That's really off problematic, Keith Humphreys, a study where he showed that you know. If you go to emergency room, alcoholic. They do this study where they, it was a veteran study and they so came in french room then withdraw whatever they had. One group of the doctor sat with the patient, give them pamphlets about twelve step education about twelve meeting schedule and said, go do it, and that was that the in the other population they did
same thing. A little less education but said, and I'd like to introduce you to the Dax here, is gonna. Take you to a meeting tonight. Dax meets Joe, aha and, and you say to I'll, see at six o'clock we'll go to the meeting. Okay in the educational group. The meeting attendance was You predict I've solo zero. Okay, in that I was going to go out in the warm hand, off yeah. The meeting attendance was one hundred percent no way one hundred assets stark and the recovery rate amongst that group I forget how far out they took it was quite good yeah. So it's some part of it is education of we don't stand behind it. It's free this with the thing I can't understand. We have these freaking free services out there that stand up to scientific scrutiny free and we don't advocate. by the way that that's a clue for you yeah
huge lie. Notable yeah, I'd, see billboards everywhere, I see ads on tv, but who should the government should be out of there with the commuter should get it by the end? Of course, you have to be careful because there's eleven there's traditions that you notes. We shouldn't be, but I'm saying at least from an educational perspective, we should be advocating only half of it yeah You know the let's just talk the eleven tradition or is that this we're gonna stay anonymous at the local press, and right. So Bob and- and I break this I think Bob and I studied very that's the fourth one was my first part. Is it will bomb, and I went at that hard before we decide to slightly rehab right, and turned out. That was mostly bill. Wilson's wife's idea. and that late in her life she completely converted and said. No. You have to get out of the meeting. People need to learn about this. Well yeah. I have a friend who is a bit of an a historian, and he said what he had read was that that was mostly to so that they wouldn't be inundated with the trip,
in drunks that rampant in society that a level of it was just they couldn't have. Every channel is showing up at their door in and to be fair eat it. It is work that way right. It's been good, but but but I think, there's been a paradigm shift in the. If you were a alcoholic cool in the fifties. That was a very shameful thing and I just don't think it has this steaks anymore. True and it might might stance is always been, I'm happy to piss off a handful of people on a if it means twenty five. Do. that listen to me find their way. I you can, you can put me off to crawl and what they meant by media was totally different than what we have in media today, that isn't very Asian, all this that we all are a media outlet yeah. There was no concept of all this in the idea of a reality, show what the hell does yeah they they were thinking it really. They were thinking advertising
right they were thinking Madison, Ave Promotion, yeah 'cause. We want. We want to appeal to people to attraction, not promote it's right. So your show, which I've had many debates with people over the years about her. First of all, I loved it. Did you watch it Monica? I did not know it was so good and I will say it works on a lot of levels. The criticism of it, of course, was that you were kind of voyeuristically um profiting or something on people's pain and addiction. So let's go to that. So let's go it's just break it on each one yeah. So one was the additions so Bob. I really thought a lot about that and it was actually Bob's idea to go ahead with this, and I thought new to this, your instinct. Let's, let's go it it. But for awesome you should never have sometimes a great interview and uh, but I fully engaged,
and so this issue of, let me let me I can take you through all the criticisms life. I what I think about it very carefully, yeah they're too sick to make a decision to agree to be in a situation. Yeah, that's a pretty good. It's a right yeah and to me that means that an alcoholic addict in their diseases into secret position to consent to anything they can't consent to treatment. They can't consent to what I mean they are they so impaired. They can't consent to things right in the eyes of the law. That's not true the consent, all kinds things all day long or they will be held accountable for either they can't go to treatment with a consenting to treatment, yeah. So that's sort of a an issue. That's been kind of squared and by the way. If I had heard from any of the patients that hey man, I didn't really know I was getting into never heard that once haha we all have heard quite the opposite, quite which was we didn't know. This was going to happen. Something happened that we didn't know people all came in because they wanted to make. They may be one old treatment and they want to screw with us. They wanna make make hell for us sure sure, and it's a great
Well, because we wanted. We took the treatment so seriously halfway through the treatment. Everyone of them had the same thing. They went from being resistive whatever and just there for the money to being. Oh, my god, I'm getting something out of this too. I want to share this with other people what this to be a good outcome. So I can make a difference for the people. Yes, every single patient had that transition did not expect that yeah. I was. I am thankful to God for that. That was amazing transition. Everybody had yes, and also by the way I look at it. This way, it's it's the spoonful of sugar with the medicine. It's like sure I initially tuned into that AO sober, and so it is interesting it so I'm tuning into the fucking train wreck That is my initial. You can attraction to it in and I'm very judgmental of the people on there and I'm like oh look at this dirtbag and he's a liar and blah blah blah and one hundred percent of the time there would be a breakthrough or I will go holy fuck. This is
One's child is a human being human being and all that stuff aside, we got to help each other man. Much how that was. Our goal needs as perfect all everything on medium heat, everything I mean I do I try to sort of bait and switch. I try to bring you in because it's media I want to give you something you need. That's, that's always what I try to do it absolutely and you know some of the other, you know the only fair critique of it was is that thank you. You were a little handcuffed. well people to think go ahead, so so the but then people got all your exploiting these people. I go, please ask them if they felt exploited and if they had any perception of exploitation right, you would think if somebody was exploited, exploited, individual one of them would have a feeling of exploitation, yeah, not one right so good, I believe I'm and I here's where I was hunting- you good here's, here's where was different than than, and I did know the cameras. Cameras seem to help treatment. The payment definitely help treatment, because I can
motivate them to stay and how you want to leave get out here. I'm going to dock your check yeah, so that was very helpful. Sure, and I, but I couldn't find I couldn't fire people, wouldn't kick him out. That was different than normal yeah, so that that's the part that is jurors, because yeah, I think some people on the outside were like all these fuckin' antics they get away. A murder and there's no consequences, and that's whether this way to begin with the correct that that that was, that was eight adjustment. I, as a man, you just got to swallow. Well, I had to you'd think id think of it as a tool that I did not have yeah and I was gonna use, other other things, which was the carrots and the other techs and indeed corner work. I was surprised yeah, the only other thing is to is bringing ten people in on the same day. You know everybody comes in all at once, and that's like what that is very I saw for me yeah because they're, sick and they're sick for a week or so, and That is heavy heavy lifting. Usually it's one today in the newcomers are helped by the old, the guys that have been there and yeah,
Everybody. I would also imagine two it breaks apart. This societal dynamic, that's helpful, which is you enter treatment facility. There's some people twenty years or something already working at your inclination- is a is a multi member group. Primate is to kind of blend in or go with the flow. It's just fucking. Everyone leave the gates at the same right, they're awful to us right. Then we've got to get a man. We gotta get me yet in that work to that, one, that one okay, I'm and what that's, but I loved it, and- and my my you know my my defensive. It was always this like you are whether you tune in for this that or the other thing you're. Getting exposed to really great principles, engine you're watching them work. Yeah. You know for a long time afterwards to we offer the treatment for a long while afterwards, in every case yeah some of them took at some
didn't? Some of them are doing amazing, like amazing yeah and some of them not. You know. This is the way the deal goes. What's interesting is even though I've got like now, fifteen years of experience of being in meetings and everything and co mingling with a bunch of other addicts. I couldn't do the job you do because I have a. I don't think it's unique to me. A which is a you get with the program or yell go try your thing. So no! No! This is what I need. You guys right I need you, I I I I I I have lots of people glad to hear that way, because I I will refer you people to one another, then you're, gonna, judge and and what my my the people that are just or the eastern role. You know the the way I look at that is like those people that I referred that way for enrollment we'll go to the man for people, if they're motivated they're, not they have nothing to do with it. That's totally appropriate like when I, when I, what you have to do is someone who's running a treatment facility just much different than
I was very disappointed when it when a new guy comes in- and I I just personally believe there is a level of humility required for this thing to work. Yeah just I've. Seen no signs that thousands of people try to get this and to me that the ingredient that is absolutely required is is humility and an acknowledgement that you need some help and guidance. So I always tell them you know sits. Put up cotton in your mouth. Take it out of your ears. Sit down down, sit, dress down a seat couple times. A day and just shut up now, the real art that recovering people sometimes do is I've seen some amazing full scale attacks newbies. With that scared, the crap outta me, I think, the guys going to go, kill themselves yeah that gets them in either. Out of that meant or I'll show you a mop or something that eight people that apply that when they do it yeah else Well, we can also saying you probably can't all mother, I know exactly how it works. You you just do we miss that I did it, but I did it. What are you talking about like I'm? Using
I think you're telling me well. I have a half and I have a version of that. Okay, because I because I'm really pretty good at knowing what you know what people say. Oh I I feel I just got a ninety percent bullshit. I've learned to trust what comes out of my mouth and I'll, sometimes say something like that or worse I'll, say: you're. Full of shit you never even and they'll, be crying and they'll just cup up and I think, are they gonna punch me yeah go. I know how you know: don't know anyone with with Wilshire what is it because they don't yeah, so I'm you also had there was there was that there was a spin off show about oh yeah, before you do I'll give you another criticisms we got was early on. We intentionally kept the twelve steps out because of the level tradition. It's eleven. And then what was the big complaint, the twelve step community, whereas the trust, and so we became, were brought it, I kinda started, calling it classes and assignments and things like that still same same complaint. The compromise I had always been instructed on was that
I was always allowed to refer to it as a twelve step program. I'm in a twelve step. You can name the program yeah right and then just you know, I'm doing ours and ours is but there's no way. I'm gonna keep. also the news creatures. We mutual aid society. What is it mo number creatures, mutual aid society. Mutual aid society has even longer yeah. It is going to be on the same day, all right. That's what one of the one of the Good Chrisette criticisms, though I will say that is more event up current issue and why I I I do have respect for it is, I'm out here talking about ea valves and axes the face and I'm just as likely to relapse anybody else, and so, if I relapse it will not be,
indictment on a and then I stopped working the program correctly, because when I did work it correctly, it got me fourteen years of sobriety. So that's the probably the thing that need people do need to lead with, and I try to lead with often yes, but what seems to be pretty and knowledge now the make sure there's push back, but that this disease of addiction, Israel and that requires treatment and- and it is a health issue right. I don't feel like Sex addiction has that same kind of respect in our society. It differs your doesn't I'd I'd interview with somebody today about love addiction and that definitely is not an end in sight fee to people right.
And I get a little concerned about the over by application of the term addiction to I mean it really, it's it's a construct, your with. With with how would you define addict well with with how do I find it yeah I defined it as a genetic disorder, a biological disorder with genetic basis that the hallmark for which is the progressive use and preoccupation the face of adverse consequence, a high consequence and work or school finance, health, legal or financial status, and then then I'll. That's all I need for debt for addiction, okay, how the o d s m five is all kinds of corrective breaks out here is in this and that right. But for me it's the Jane, the progression, the consequences. The deny- and I know it's there- okay, so but environmentally some, so my mom is a cost said. You know the cost is it's a court appointed advocate for kids in foster care? Yes, indeed be that she's around here. She has to go all these workshops every couple months and she left one of the workshops and she called me. She was awesome. I was
I said Well- did trauma, puts the rocket fuel interdiction great. So I was going to say you could you could conceivably not have the biological component and have been traumatized sexually as a kid be still off to the races? Now? No really, I think there has to be a biologic comply, a gene that really oh yeah it, but the trauma I mean they're traumatized kids don't become drug attics, but if you're traumatized kid with that chain game on its over for sure he said yeah, she said it was eighty percent. And I always tell people I said, look if it's give me a lecture one time and I said, look you know hundred all of my patients have drama. That's just it's just if they're bad enough addicts, they need to see me they had childhood trauma. It is very, very bright. You know, reporting psychiatrist said because the don't don't always never sell it. So I give up the lecture. I said you know the,
so, and so is advised me not to say always also at this weight one hundred percent of my patient- and it's always always always there. If it's bad enough and I'm not saying all the diction requires that I'm saying if you get bad enough addiction that you need to see me, you had it for sure. Ok, so because here's one thing and that's by the way- that's that's the piece of addiction that people get left up about, which is why they use in the first Why did they use? I understand why they got out of control. There's a gene, the biology drove it. Okay, why? The use the first place? That's the problem, they're trying to regulate emotions that are unmanageable right, you're, you're, trying to take something from the outside and fix a hold on the inside in a word so by the way it works you we would have had well, it works for me I can work for quite awhile, yeah yeah. In fact this is. There was a period of work better than this. Like you, yes, yeah, could shut, that brain of mine off, and that was there was a lot of peace in that and the thing with sex addiction
time that I saw were. People seem to be so outraged that it was being used was when Tiger Woods came out and said, I'm a sexy yeah and I think the I think, what have in there, in my opinion, is that people were hearing that as an excuse right, and that was not an excuse for my mind. That was an explanation correct and I get so infuriated at people not being able to make that distinction. Well here it is the came up today in conversation, facts. Let me tell you what I told the might. Carburetor partner and I said, look I go shows. Why does it only happen when the wife finds out about it, then, with that and I go Why do I only see alcoholics when they get a dui as well? That's different and I go. Why is it different? What if they didn't get a DUI said, then I see them when alcoholic liver disease- I don't see them before the consequences right get the consequences before you get through to them when it's, whether it's cheap, getting caught by the wife or getting an edge
what they're not merry. When you see him, I said when they have medical problems which they do yeah all kinds are financial is a we're all or most of the getting all kinds of crazy. Absolutely, and so you don't see it until they have their consequences. Yeah. It just happens that one of the more common ones for the sex addict is growing up relationships. Yes in this this this, this concerns may be and I've I've read about this before, but I think if you are I'll, just use a wife for the sake of this argument. If a wife found out that her husband was an opiate addicts, then she had missed all the signs and she found out that that that that husband of hers was driving her children can be anything more important in our lives, was driving them daily completely up in danger in their lives. I have to imagine a great majority of those women with would give their husband a chance to go to treatment, yep and fix that yep, and I think it's such a frown. This of our all of our own
you go that if my wife turned out to have a sex addiction that I wouldn't extend her the exact same right willingness to get better, as I would if she was a gambling addict. Does your husband was a gambling addict and he he he gambled away your home and you our on the street yeah jeopardize the safety of your children will be more paramount that right yet husband got a hand job in Tokyo. Let's blow this whole thing thing up or your wife got it. You know I'm annoyed, but let me tell you why it? Why that's so? They can be a great explanation but, of course primary. It's that explodes the intimacy right. It it explodes into say it explodes the trust and the feeling of safety, the need for intimacy and that's a very shattering yeah and the co dependent of a sex addict by their nature has got a lot of stuff going on. Okay, somebody that which would be attracted to the back to this attraction. Car
Asia so may be attracted to somebody's going to sex addiction needs to do some work in and they're and they're very fragile on many levels, often times I've, I've, I'm sure I I would imagine, that's all are ultimately true. I look at it from a perspective, which is the reason that that can't be overlooked is that them being addicted. Opiates does not trigger, or one of our deepest fears, no no spouse is going. I wasn't enough of a spouse to save you from being or being an opiate at yeah yeah. I wasn't enough of a spouse to keep you from being a gambling addict, but our biggest fear as humans is that we wouldn't be In fact, if you know it's so, do you know what attracts more meeting? It's a little more of a man. Think it's a male thing there we put sex and attraction of the same category. Well, I think I think, let's just say we all have deep, deep biological component to mate Yes, that's, yes, that's easy in the shelter may, but the meeting is about safety and about a you know, it's all kinds of things that way way deep
that, when it's shattered, as he makes you crazy, it does make you crazy, but I do think you can. You can trace back to peoples oversized reactions to it triggering fears in that most partners of sex attic, stay in the relationship or really of those in treatment, the majority of the ones in drawing seventy percent. Okay. So, but they got to treatment still in a relationship that yeah, I feel like a lot of people were probably read it out before they get it right. There's a lot of people blow the relationship out, but this is really so we're talking a weird way. That partner may be healthier that just I can't stand this in a weird way. I would advise it sure would advise it. I like them to hang in and work it through yeah, but sometimes then I'm not even using someone stay with a sex addict, but but but this time I'm obsessed with this topic, good, I just think sex is so triggering for people, and I asked this question to a group of people that are at our house and
House at our house. There covers as yet this is that they got to go to dinner party here on this tomorrow. I said: here's your choice. You find out that your spouse drove drove the car. They they would have blown a point too. Well, okay, they are dangerous, they drove your kids and want to object, or they had oral sex with someone else What's your choice, you have to pick between those two things and unanimously they all picked. I'd rather have them drive my kids, drawing wow that's telling I mean they're in a very safe environment. They would have said that in an interview but but in our house I understand that she admitted this country will be would rather have had that happen then be cheated on. Maybe they don't- and I just think that's incredibly telling about how important that is to or a lack of standing, how Stanley Hotel
even when they understand how dangerous that is, if they're being dead, honest they'd rather find out that that happened and that that their partner cheated on them, and I would prefer that Kristen cheated on me. The driver, kids at points and what kind of I'm kind of with but it's hard. It shouldn't be hard. That was my point. That leads how sized or fear is over this. You know that we have thought something through Are you an ai that others don't normally do? Maybe we have realistic? Well, I even Santa MAR spouses or something high likelihood. Your kids are going to get very hurt in this scenario, but why are we different that we gotta figure out? Why Why or why are we having a different reaction 'cause if that's the typical reaction, that's the typical reaction. Why are we different? Why are we having someone different and I'm wondering if it's because over overly confident,
no nation zero. I think it's the therapy in the work and the rear, because it makes you realistically except human beings, are a e s. A n in you have to relook realistically, except your spouse, and failings are part of that. But endangering children is not really a failure. That's another starter criminal behavior. It's either one option you give me after that, I'm probably going to pick it yeah, but I also very much understand why it was kind of you know again no understand the feeling I get totally yeah yeah and I just think, there's a whole world of inquiry. That's not happening for whatever reason. and here they've, been your dinner party questions and I think everybody running out the back door that Jesus shut tax up. I find out a lot. Oh maybe I can ask you this. I find out a lot of these are informal studies. I'm doing you'll like this one, so Chris and a movie together. The customer came into her trailer and she was talking about cleaning up the boys there. A a bunch of boys on the movie cleaning cleaning up there
shorts, that they were wearing the movies, and I said something like how many do they have and she said very high amount- and it's like, oh my god, that's so good, pathetic. Why on earth are these guys? They can't wipe their butt? What is going on right now? This led to a conversation where Chris and I were talking about. How often do you poop your pants, and I said you know happens to me once every year and a half or something right that's insane, because that's insane right, she goes. I've never put my pants and I go ok right after that movie rap we went to Michigan, we go camping with, like forty of my friends, were all around this huge campfire an I tell them about this conversation. I go look man, I put my pants once a year once a year and a half and then we go around the whole, fire in every single guy was like yeah. You know once a year twice a year, whatever the get to this guy who's in town, from germ He's an engineer he goes, I would like to say never but twice times per year. Okay, what we've!
and at the end of this is all the guys had experienced pooping their pants none of the women had, but then Christians had halted. You peer pants, go around the sun it's a difference. Every woman is Peter PAN you're, no guy peas, their pain. We have a. We have a more iron mechanism down there, yeah we're very interested in handicap. The handicap down there: okay, yells much shorter distance, much easier thing happens, much work on and if you've ever had a baby delivered a baby you're going to be. Doing that. All the time right thought there was some kind of sexual indicator of those two things. It's just bizarre. It is weird but yeah I put my pill. Women have an excuse for the.
but men do not mix well, no, I know we know it, but it's always been. Is it not always? Is it not always the case when that happens, you're going to fart, you have diarrhea well, this is not always the case. One of the theories person I've come to is that men are just innately more cocky like they'll test. It like this could be diarrhea, but I'm going to see, and then oh boy, I was wrong, so it's like an air against a male may be driven by testosterone, really hurt to pass gas in wherever I think that's about it really all wired into like our daredevil tribalism. This is so good that not the way it happened, just how it happens. I thought well I'm just going to either either we give me a we get down river often be. We were more often and that's that yes, ok, great The last thing I got I want to ask you about: is you've had a very public career and as a doctor and throughout how
gotta on the radio. How long ago, twenty five years ago, please one thousand nine hundred and eighty three one thousand nine hundred and eighty three so still a medical student, oh wow, so I'm going to they do, the math Monica three thousand and seventy seven years, but anyway, you've had this very public life and one of you blunder. What what? What are some moments that you had that were hard to get through that, like Why? I'm remember one time just put curse, you mention it. I would have panic attacks yeah, and because you said you a trauma and you're, not an addict, so yeah I was soon. Work was away from work without work was one of the mechanisms and but I depression a pack tax things. I stop at that. Okay, all way better from therapy, and but there was one yes, I exercise right. I think that's yeah, it's a little bit of a crazy thing to, I think I'd like
shows a mere something okay of man, but I, but I get a lot of this and all the podcast when I'm working as Miss. My study is really important good for me. Yeah. Do you think the curse me as a it was while I was on the today show used to do a lot. I had not slept, and I as you know, windows- and I was talking to your Kindle New York and I've- just you Know- gotten their seven hours before structured for hours before and it was like three in the morning: U S time, I've, California time and I'm doing something and Matt Lauer's interview me on a topic that I probably was not that into, and I remember I start having a panic attack. And so I started blocking and I started like not making sense. or leaned into me like looking like. Are you ok, and I thought oh man I gotta together, I just sort of power through all, but that was a moment where I was like. Oh you're live on national television having a panic attack and it could get. You can get out of hand yeah because I have to go. You think you're having a heart
No, no. I know my panic attack my pants extra psychological in nature. I just feel like I'm strike, I'm it's Imagine you're drowning at sea, even though you know you're not say just that, you can't you can't find a way to get you. Just can't find the purchases that gives me thinking and I block my thinking stops. That's the biggest problem for me. I block in my thinking. If you ever tried beta blockers, I now 'cause I was 'cause. I need I any full faculties when I go into battle your available is. There is a fact that I have never tried it, but I was fear that anything. That's an anyway mind altering gonna affect my ability to, because I'm I'm I'm needing everything. I've got to express myself yeah. I I've never personally known to be able to block about my my wife. As a proponent of them as a singer. Who sings in front of large, yes, is in the eye, concert, musicians, yeah, I know it's.
It's? I listen is a no, but it's a non problem. It's an easy one and I maybe I'll do it one day, but I I don't have right now a panic, and so one day it will happen right right when I least expected in you think that the the that was the result of being. hired prior to all the blah blah whatever and who knows what else did you have fear over talking with Matt Lauer yeah I fear and anxiety or get a the reason. I say it's a topic that I don't really care about. His people push me to talk about things that I'm going to the earlier much to say, and they want you to hear of expertise like come on right. Is no no you. We need you to do it like on okay yeah and do they do they want you to generally comments. As a physician on someone in the public eye yeah, I'm going through some, the estimated six in our that is typical or somebody dies, and it's and it's like or or a parenting thing lot of parenting stuff, because I talked and lessons for so many years and things that are like it's not really a topic right really know about it like that. Okay, all don't do the research on the list. I can't you know yeah in in how do you like we
you feel it 'cause. I I'm now on the other side of a lot of those triggers for me, everything when I was first with Kristen, my insecurity and self loathing was if I was on a talk show, and they want to talk about her. My thought was: oh they're, not even interested in me. They just want to talk about her, and so I couldn't help but be defensive about adult reader reader. You know stupid now. I don't feel that way at all. I'm loved it and I also started noticing everyone when she's an adult show, yeah. It's like it's like talking to you they don't. That is as you how your brother's doing they don't ever. Ask you what you're doing but yeah. I did that feeling of going like park here they go again. They want me to do this track, yeah in in yeah.
Yes, law that, like when brain as you have like more moral moral, feel a knowing does and be a bit because I always think of it as well. If I really don't understand the topic, you know yes, yes, but if it's something where it's like the other stuff to be learned here, I guess to really make the effort- and I mean yeah, even though I do it's sat like with Kate and Kate, Spade a. were there ever was. I don't think I like your site and then it's a you know a lot about that. I know about suicide, but this is this. Is these none of these cases are exemplary. There they're all very different. I think a pertain to you her. Whatever drinking I mean yeah very different situation? I was always impressed by that. I would I had read kitchen confidential, I absolutely loved it. I never watch the show, but I'd see it advertised all the time and I was like well that's cool. He can drink he's an ex junkie with. you can drink. That's impressive! Now! I'd would like you to think about that realistically. Look. I would use these people in a that's like thanks, my no no good for him as my thing, but like some people, smoke, pot and
So so, but here's the I'm not here to say I like those- I can. I talk to Anthony fifteen years ago, he's in danger. Ok I don't know. I don't know how it's going to go bad, but I knew it was going to go bad yeah yeah. I see you can't do that. I'm UK and you can do it for a while, but it always goes that it was this bad if you're opiate, adding your working please. But I do think the thing that and again I know nothing next to nothing about the boarding thing other than I saw his commercials and he seemed to be a guy living a fantasy, the, and I was happy for yes, me too, like I just had this he's a great guy feeling about that. Yes, that anyone with people yeah, I think, That's why you know, I think, that's how we kept it together. So long he made it about other people and that will keep you going for awhile right, but inevitably the biology kind of around, but I did find 'cause. I can be very cold to people on the outside when people in our group ODI 'cause. I have this weird thing:
for because I'm so was like yeah? That's what happens is that the condition I I mean to me, and that was what happened. Yes, you know if this condition and it sounds kind of his passion and and it's like you- it's like you're in war. No, it's like cancer is like if you were working with cancer patients. Some data cancer going in was that's what happens right and it kind of sounds cold people, but I I will say that this boarding I think I found myself feeling sad or about it than I have in the past when I've heard about people who have killed himself- and I do think it's it. It speaks a lot to the condition of depression because it's so scary to think someone could have everything they would want. The people are commenting on, but but the afghan it. But but I like you, know, that's a great that that could be more helpful. Yes, a confession than any other thing, absolutely so weighed in them and they're and they're living on the streets. It's now it doesn't scare anyone the one that still hangs over most of us that this was struck really a depression. Star was just about anything that we know just from looking
mark. Oh, very sad, that is just yeah. I mean that was recalcitrant impression for guy long term recovery. Don't going well in recovery, oh yeah, so terrifying. I just had my mother on here, which was so wonderful and she had two different bouts suicide attempts in different times, one when you would expect it like everything was going wrong. Three kids can't support him all this stuff, but way. More importantly, an informative was was at the height of everything in her life, kids are succeeding at everything. She'd hoped they'd succeed at her business is thriving in her. Marriage is perfect and just fuckin' rock bottom on an oil which to me is such a good indicator that is so much biochemical. She bipolar she's, not bipolar, or at least she's not been given that diagnosis she had never been medicated up until that, second time since then, she's totally fine, I mean it's not totally fine. She is a great game plan now and she's medicated and now nothing. But
me that ISM. That is a more informative scenario. Then the person that we can write off is just correct, been a failure or something or or Min Missouri or pain, or something yeah. Yeah. Look it's it's a brain thing. It's a brain disorder and we get a disease disorders of the brain. Just forget this or a heart disorders of the knee yeah no different, and we should treat it differently. And do you know the whole history of the DSM and why that even came about and how they I just ever ask needing to know the details. I know there is a catch is always trying to make itself medical as those trying to make it. You know yeah the there was this guy who was a prankster. He was like an english guy who debunk things. I forget his name.
He came to the U S and he had an experiment where he had ten colleagues go check in the psych wards and all they could say was I hear a thump in my head and then beyond that they had to tell the truth and then all ten people were admitted to the psych wards and they were given a litany of different diagnoses and then the this became an expose and it calls the whole psychiatric community to go. Okay. We need some kind of standardized thing in there kind of created. The DSM came out of that. If you're with your three ds, I'm too, and if you have three they're hysterical all really come there so yeah. I think that's part of the reason. People have a hard time sign in psychology is in general is that it's it's there's been a lot about psychology right, yeah, there's a lot of terrible to catch a hard thing to get a picture of the how they used to do frontal, lobotomies and a secure those patients. You know you
years later: haha disastrous, disastrous yeah, so when the dm actually came out with standardized and they started giving it to people that they found. If I have my history correct, is that a mental illness is probably pandemic. That was the conclusion hum, which I mean a universal or affecting a majority of us in this country. Okay- and I I I kind of agree with what is true is that we have right. Yes, it's true that Sim the a b symptomatology affects the majority of us. The question when you want to call it an illness, sharia, okay, but my broad question for you is: let's assume for us, and that the majority of us have sixty percent all sitting in a room right literally, a majority yeah, I'm owning my addiction, stuff you're saying you have panic attacks Monica you had a spell where you thought you had things anxiety so
I don't hear that any different than my mind is going well. A lot of us had the flu. everybody much everybody has had the flu yes or most have been a lot of appendicitis in this. Human experience includes this brain thing that does some weird stuff to it. Yes, so my broader question is a are we as a species, a species with mental illness? Yes or did we live in a certain way and that we stop living in a certain way and that his his given that this great rise in it and I have a kind of a little armchair theory on it. Okay, I'm certain both okay- and I am so certain that some of it is also we? I was peppering seed throughout this. Yes, I got it in this. Yes, is that you're going to see it have an awareness of it and an ability to identify it and give it a name and to understand it as a feature of our brain function. That may that may be this firing at the moment,
now. We just we got super smart in here. Sorry, there's a by product of that right and we may be pathologizing things that always in the past was never pathologized or never barely, even noticed, yeah but yeah sure. If I had to all the about hunting mammoths it be hard at my pet in the packs x, experience very differently right, very differently and here's our my theory comes, and it is that I believe that we are the way we both be dead. Now. Two, oh, you wouldn't have lived this long if we made it through childhood, which we very unlikely, but I would have challenged the twenty three year olds have fight. So I had access to a female and I would have been killed by a strong and I know exactly how I would have gone out and by the way back then just a single sword wound somewhere it would have been it 'cause. It got infected and it's over that's right. Now you don't get run through we're, forgetting the fact that I would have died of asthma as a kid. Anyways wouldn't even made it to that point. But let's just say I made my theory, though, is that having studied Anth
oh yeah. You know for ninety nine percent of the time we've been on this planet. We were hunting and gathering and we had a very labor intensive lifestyle and we had all this physical activity and that physical activity is rewarded with endorphins and instead of proper slavery was much difference. Yes, personally when we live that way. Yes in so you mentioned that you have to work out, I have to work out. I don't think we're doing a good enough job, letting people in America now not just for your vanity, although great motivator. For me, physical activity is a real.
I think essential for our mandatory health agree in I don't, and I don't. I don't see the program promoting that I don't see well organic and I talked to Robert Downey Manic. I made a big point about that. Okay feels like the over emphasize that my opinion with terms of here who is able to get through and finally into recovery and but good for him yeah and if he talks about all kinds of spiritual and physical practices and things yes, and there are people that do it, they're they're always margin. I don't know why we do that right, but you're right. It should be at the core, and by the way and now when you have podcasts and things you can listen to and be an expanding while you're focusing on your exercise, I mean to me it's a perfect combo in a perfect yeah. I said on here that weirdly. If there was a single thing, I hope my kids do by the time they graduate and forget and sat score any other habit. That one thing I'd hope is that they had a habit of exercising. If you do it they'll, probably Well, I do it and they come down there with me and they watch cartoons when I lift weights and they occasionally lifting right now. I'm hoping that that'll, perfect
My gym in my garage in my kids, my sons at least still do my daughters too, but that's pretty fantastic, the something I was wondering I was hoping. Maybe you would bring it up, but do you regret the Hillary thing? Oh of a sort of a blunder. So let me explain what happened yeah, I'm so sure I regret it. That's dancer, question! Okay, let me tell what happened so I have to imagine just politically. My guess would amend that would have been your pick of the two yeah yeah, yeah and you would never wish her any ill? No right would you go to hear what happened? What do you think happened is that would happen. Ok great. It also little about what happened. So here's how it so I was on Don Lemon one night and I did ten or fifteen minutes on Donald Trump's mental health and we talked about it was right. In the beginning days as it were, hyper mania, narcissism, and but I would say you know you don't know that a good thing or bad thing. Teddy Roosevelt was in our system type of manic and, like we can't hard for me to judge, but that's what
this. You know not just her being very agnostic about the little rule that you're not allowed to diagnose someone who have not studied the goal. What role? Because people are objecting that now I mean because it's so easy to characterize what you're saying you know. You can't talk about psychological nuances, but I can characterize the way to characterize a rash. You know you can Yeah, okay, I'm not saying this is his diagnosis comes in these of these kinds of things that this was a local I either some red yeah and so, and so I I went to the I do a radio show or in LOS Angeles I want to raise their sticks and that my program director says great. Would you do? Would you do thirty seconds on that for the radio for our website and when? Okay, so I sat there, I did thirty seconds and summarizing what set a dollar limit, yeah mind yours, fifteen minutes on on CNN, talking about Don dropped, okay and as I was walking as get up to go to the chair of my program, director at radio goes push for eighty three seconds a hill. Richard have some for her and I go. You know what they just released: her medical records and the care she's getting a sh. Yet I would love to talk about that yeah. So I discussed her medic
a record that was released that day and I was critical of the doctor's decisions and what they were doing in terms of her health care. So I was critical of the doctors. Yes, Drudge picked it up and their headline was. Finally, a physician is willing to take the position that Hillary is not fit for duty yeah. So right. You must always hurry. I mean tell me about the sinking feeling it's a horrible feeling yeah. I once we already storms like this in my life, I don't know why I get in the, but I get in them yeah and This was another one was like. Oh my god, I you've got to be. I I just sort of link dot. That's my first does as doc yeah yeah. So I was trying to dock yeah. You have a strategy now like just now, yeah that, that moment I mean, and having been through some of these before going to because they're all like they're all. I just need to ignore this free twenty, it's a we! We live in such a weird world. Now, if you don't have people living in Haiti, you don't exist. Well, that's good! If you're some kind of shitstorm, you don't exist, and so right so I was. I was not yet
hold on that. So I was working out pretty good, but any event I felt like I could duck and it will pass another deal well. The CNN brass start calling oh boy came down hard, oh boy, and how dare you and this comes up and they didn't want to hear it, and I said fine. Fine I've tried several times. You had a show at that time and HLN. Aha, but we'd already decided a month earlier to end the show, really we decided month earlier. Ok, this had nothing to do with me, ending the show right. Three weeks later we ended the show and the whole world went haha see. Oh, they kicked him off the air because of what he said about Hillary. Ok, so and if it is what you thought it was right. I don't even know that I thought I still regret it as to regret it, but it was- and I still stand by my of valuation of the physicians and in fact they were so did everything. I said as the where they were interrogatories in the changer treatment a little bit and they are not some evaluations and I thought she needed they did it yeah good, and so it was it was it the thing that you thought. Maybe it was just like doctor. She,
for ever and trusted in that and if they don't have dental doing, you have to watch out for this celebrities get horrible health care doctors that get turned on by taking. Whomever in the public disaster they have to not care. Have or you know nobody different, oh yeah, you're, all the same, you get the standard of care. The standard is the best. That's why it's the standard, nothing special. As soon as somebody starts giving you special attention or special care watch out when my prostate cancer was diagnosed. I thought they were doing that to me and I was like I'll come back in six months. It retested, don't worry! It's me. I know it's yeah, no drinks or anxiety, yeah, you identify with me as a doctor. Your dates me, don't just do what probably do. I think this is what we normally do when I got damn it, and so we ended up with a biopsy Pist and then diagnosis. They did exactly the right thing. They use their judgment properly. Our judgment is it It's it's honed in a certain emotional interpersonal context and we step out of that. Take care of our family take care of ourselves. Our judgment doesn't work, it doesn't care a special person or think that's a
little person we're not using our judgment are you saying Elvis is doctor wasn't advice and he was not saying it's not so when you're in one of those storms is your, is your natural thing to do? I'm hoping we can bond on this? Do you go home and just talk like a four year old to your wife and then you eventually have to police yourself and go Jesus. My wife does not want to fucking hear about this anymore and I'm being a narcissist in sometimes, hands on the thing I I try not to bring it home, but what is it this time? But then, when you have a partner at the scene, all right? What happens when I, when I start verbalizing too much that drives her crazy? But I can't stop talking about something. Yes, I know that silly and that makes her crazy and makes me crazy you yeah? I try not to do that. One and you have to recognize- or I tried to recognize, I'm just being a narcissist, and I had this whole thing with the world. Think say about me or be about me. Has nothing to do with
life in this house or children. Friends you can see all because, because the containers should terms I gotta get get very threatening dude, because because then the threat to call my professional societies and I'm off to Philadelphia to stand trial, I mean there's crazy stuff. They can have the physician Yes in that is the logical difference of it, but that that's that's the part I would say is bullshit like it. So so what will tell ourself in No, no I've gotten I've had that stuff happens. I believe that I totally believe that, but when I've done something where I feel like I'm under attack in a lot of people are have some certain opinion of me now, I'm making a logical case, so I thought why they got another blender for you. Oh great, go ahead finish up, so I'm building a logical case of why it's appropriate for me to feel this way right. But in doing that, I'm I'm failing to stop and say all these people whose opinion I think, I'm concerned about. None of them are my friends now. One of my friends has this opinion of me right now. One of my family members has this opinion
I mean my wife. Doesn't my kids? Not so what really is going on yeah, I I am prioritizing that does appear is who I don't even know. That's the vast majority of these kinds of things. Yes, yeah that that's what that's actually my narcissism, whose actually concerned at the greater world long journey, yes and and that's just wrong absolutely, and I need the police myself on one hundred percent right. Here's a blender from blender yeah, in nineteen. Ninety seven twenty one years ago I accepted a fever, my drug company, to do a two year campaign to raise awareness of the side effect of antidepressant of what being highs, and it was this before he knew about the sexual side effects. Aha, I knew about him. Okay in people's lives are being destroyed by
So I went on a campaign and I did lectures I did. I mean it was mostly into anti ssri in it. Yes, it will at least where Nis about it, the company that funded Maine had well Buitron. Ok and of course, they had their position with hard drive. Doesn't do that as well. I don't care I'm going to educate about all the stuff. I wrote a book on it. I did it multiple psychiatrists and people that tour with me and stuff yeah, the company got caught in a billion dollar federal lawsuit for essentially for advocating off label use of their drugs. Is there a lawsuit? Ok, they found a radio interview with Maine, where I said they I said I was going to his SSR eyes, because sexual function and the radio interview said what do you? What do you do in so doing practice in my practice? What do I do? Well, I switch into well Buitron.
Arizona Remeron, which I did or sometimes a ad will be turned to the s s all right, which I did. I am entitled to say that yeah, that's my practice right what I do yeah I forgot to say: oh by the way, I'm I'm this the glut. future company their funding, this campaign that I'm on, I just left it off the internet. I just I just didn't disclose in the interview I assumed that have been disclosed. I guess I just didn't remember to close it when I was saying that yeah huge, huge, It made you look like a shelf, maybe look at exactly you said to this day. People will bring that up from twenty two years ago. Really twenty tearing that, though you're over it, was your overall message that Yes, we shouldn't do s s r. Yes, I was your hand. Are you anti? Are you still in time? I am. I am the generally the anti Medication guide general. I didn't know I I I'm you would generally I mean I, I think, there's a way over. You know the the the there. Certainly the band dens opiate, where, yes, yes, I yes, I think there is a tendency not to be willing to move,
ordinary misery that we everything I'm very concerned about primary care. Physicians prescribing this stuff trust me. They don't have the training, you don't yeah. I worked in a psychiatric hospital for twenty five years. One of the first thing I notice when I got there was like oh man. I thought I understand this country, I do not ten years- and I thought- and probably I know enough now, ten years of working there- that I could really be a decent prescriber. But would not. I said it all to an expert for psychiatrist, and most of under a veces or as prescribed by primary care. Guys don't have the training they just don't right at so I'm concerned about. It also concern about people getting left on them and not getting out of it psychotherapy. I am very concerned about all over the place yeah and at that point no one the the companies were denying that they cause the sexual side, effects and relationship forget destroyed all over the place yeah, and so that was when I I was felt. I felt good about that campaign for and by the way back then was a hold
world, you routinely to work for drug companies? That's what you did right. They were. They were sort of seen as allies in the in the file. Then you just have to make the the unilateral decision, like I'm just never going to be in bed in any city. Never I I'm! I will do supplements sometimes when they really look good, just kind of like I think, like some I'm gonna take, and somebody wants me to help them with that. All if I'm taking it up, I would say I'm taking a gym right, but I know nothing with pharmaceutical company zero. Nothing sense, so you do have a ton of is this from doing love line that you had to be come super knowledgeable about sex, yeah yeah from because of that right, every night, with because when I was on you would never remember this, but the time I did love line there was a caller the weird thing about doing love line that people probably wouldn't imagine, is the problem. Is I'm a comedian, so I go there and I want to be funny on your show, love line, and I have to keep reminding myself he's a real human beings calling with real problems and I'm like regularly trying to avoid making a joke
right in in that subsides, and I'm really listening in that this was the call that came in, and I couldn't believe what you said this woman called. She said. Yes, I'm DR drew. I I I I have a girlfriend and I love her a lot and we we still are very connected everything, and I just you know we should we stop having sex about three months ago and I'm just a little concerned- and you said ok, so you've been with your partner. You stop having sex three months ago. So I'm going to say: have you guys been together six months, and she goes yes, that's exactly right. We've been together six months. How did you Know- and you said it was a female female female, so your relationship area in you go well. You are in the pattern that many lesbian relationships fall inside that once all the oxytocin in front of wears off of falling in love, there's no test. pastor own in the relationship to drive the sex life and I was
along the way they do actually developed a day. I I election about the term is called the lesbian, bad death, death, death, yes and- and people object to that in the strongest terms, but we were hearing about it all the time. That's just the pattern it just was there is there was yeah and it's interesting so I wonder now. Would you be is readily to give out that same by the way, you're stating something that you observed? filter many many times you and by the way judgment behind it and right and and you're, not and so therefore the you guys should be in a relationship. You need to sell it. So what I say is you need to pay attention to settle? It is important I can use in Europe. The drive there's no there's no drive, therefore necessarily and should miss it and it's an important. art of intimacy? And you gotta push it yeah yeah! It's made with a it's interesting that you would che Felis come to
today saying, then I wouldn't jump to it today because it because, since in those days I know exactly when you're talking about yeah, we see lesbians- I I don't know Akela Gay relationships with women seem to have prior transaxle more I say here a little lot more of like it's about it's quality. Well, I don't know who knows why? Why 'cause, I'm not there with them, but but there's much more come, engage, satisfying, satisfying, persistent sexual contact. That, then, back in those days, yeah. I don't know 'cause every, since I did that yeah that episode of love line with you over the years as we've had less Friends are always bring that up like oh, I was doing love line and they said this did you and they would have go. Oh yeah lesbian bed, death right right and not us right right, but I wonder why six months do as a weird number, but we kept. We kept hearing that number six months, six months
yeah an I wonder now would would you be nervous to say it because you feel like it could be weaponized or just now why we're about I, but everything we talked about here. Being weaponized yeah. it's gonna say I ask in the honest, just be truthful and forthcoming forthright in when it comes to observation about human behavior. I can not divert from the facts. It is just is what it is right if people want to weaponize it or or give me the way to dive. I was, on my mind, expanded and change of people want to give me alternative data or explain why the dad I'm seeing is the way it Please bring it, I'm I'm delighted yeah, they have to weaponize it. Well, I've gotten so much pleasure out of sense, meaning that very first time when you said that comment- and it stuck with me- and I remember to this day- and it's spurred on a lot of these comma- stations I have at my house- or one thing I know for sure, as I do not want to go to a dinner party with chef
yeah. It does very friendly, as it is scary scary experience now. I like it 'cause nothing is being written down and recorded so because I will say the times worse than this come ten times worse. Like I said, I'm not sure I want to go to dinner party, but it does intrigue me. I don't feel like I would tantalize. This is the one thing SAM talks about a lot, and I totally agree with which is what's a rd in academia. Is that through discourse is how we make the so we had to have opposing viewpoints. Socrates for gods. It's required that people go too far. Then retract. Then you see the error in their ways, but we have to have the latitude to go too far to come back only correct. Then we hand yes, otherwise it's the at wait. We're going way, one where, where the other in in it doesn't stop without it. There is no forward movement but anyways I drew. I love you. I love that I get paired with you on this stay canceling out of that, sir. It's a great excuse for CJ, yes,
and then these podcasts aren't excuse yes and dinner parties the next cues. Yes, absolutely, although I will come with my beta blocker specimen with beta blockers old school and bring the lunch sack Now the breathe into the brown paper bag. Yeah. Yes, ok! Well, thank you! So much for I mean project and I hope to talk to you again here soon. And now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman Let me see here. He requests, Oh I have so many requests, they're piling up. Oh wow, they are piling up. Alright, you ready my anaconda. Don't none. Unless you got facts HUN you can do, I bends or sit ups, but please don't lease those facts. Baby got fax
was it I think I might have collapsed two different. That's ok, perfect, I haven't the song in twenty five years ago you did yeah. I think you pulled something yeah. It's still good baby got fat. x. Someone to hear that. I love that. Another I want these are class. Yet request a really fun okay for this one but you're doing more and get bonus, one already, no No more fire jerk working all the time, November fire truck, journalism. Well yeah, you never called me line, but you're still, a soul, mate mine, screwed up the rhythm there at the end now did stands on. now the mode of architecture, put in old time.
well that was another one good job two for one. Oh, my god. Here's another screen grab right someone so just so I know I just want to let you know that seven, there are seven suggestions in this one okay, good, it's good. It's good! It's good! It's good! It's good! It's good! It's good! Alright! Right, DR drew Pinsky. It's so interesting when a doctor gets known by their first name. Dr drew very rare, very rare, very uh yeah, something there hair yeah. You say like debonair. No, that's that's also accurate. Thin air in fine Erin in or don't know what you're saying yeah. That's! Maybe up really high, ok,
head itches, okay, you got a little bit of a head. It delights dander I I might need to use a head and shoulders or Neutrogena T gel. Q use Selsun Blue Oh I use a little. I think it's called living proof. Oh ok, I think that's what it's called This government really nervous that we have a shampoo, We don't we don't, but we're open to living Peru our Selsun blue or head and shoulders? I guess or Neutrogena T gel. Any even great great cleansing cleansing. My first commercial morford, real commercial was a hair Prada well yeah. Were you played a mermaid yeah yeah, you're right, you're right, so it was shampoo herbal essence yeah your
jury s luxurious your hair, thick flowing or if I should can say that I had extensions in where you can now the terms of the secular spinners yeah. I was going to say your hair. You already have crazy, thick hair, do but even more in there. Yes, indeed, I did. Oh my God yeah. It was the first and I've. Never that was the first and only time I've ever had my hair dyed. I was a little bit. I didn't really. to do it well, it probably felt like peer pressure. You have feelings, here yeah, but I did it this time. I let myself get peer pressure, and did you love it? No, I am color. I think they were just like giving it a shiner some training in all the gray out. Yes, I do have some great so that sensitive, no, no wash them a great read out of my hair. You know that Jim I do not wanna watch four can't.
Member the product. But I do remember the song. That's so sad. That sounds like all I'm talking about is all my commercials right now. It's ok we like here, but your commercials? Everyone is tweeting me every five seconds about you and that Geico commercial yeah I've gotten more updates on when and what channel you ran over the s too weak? My parents texted me yeah. Well, that's good, where they watching football. I don't So what they're watching death punch he's I'm sorry, you can't even you just can't help yourself. It's in the middle of people sentences you're right, it's an impulse, control issue. What is song, though? That's, do you remember that one and they got they've gotten rid of it? I think it was Hank Williams, Junior anyways. Are you ready in Folsom and it was like house simple. Could you make it they're? Like listened
discretion whatever creative freedom go crazy. Whatever you want to say just are you ready for some football? It was almost too much great. It was like to do much of an open space. Maybe it was maybe in some boundaries, but yeah. Are you ready for some football? I never finish my point. I did it. I did a car, commercial and amber it was for Volkswagen. and everyone came up to his like. Are you was that you were in the Honda? Commercial everyone thought it was Honda, and I was like that's not a very good commercial is no one can even remember the product. I remember having a marketing class in high school and the guy said. Ok, who remembers where's the beef which the most popular Kamur for my tie, even know it and no one I knew was Wendy's for whatever, but but ninety percent of the class didn't know what burger chain it was from. While it did you, love being the person who knew absolutely
totally I'm not at all. I know I know I loved it. I would have loved that too, but I wouldn't have known I would have been mad at you, leave a smart not enough to not just let people call it out yet. Raise your hand if he didn't call on me thanks, okay, So you said: we've been setting psychology as a discipline for a hundred years. Psychology was a branch of the domain of philosophy until the 1870s when it develops as an independent scientific discipline in Germany and the United States. Psychology is a self conscious field, experimental study, which began in eighteen. Seventy nine in a part of Germany that I can't print out Try l e, I p yeah, I don't know yeah. That sounds right. Sure yeah
So I was off by fifty years, sounds like yeah. I can live with that now. You know now I'll always know now you'll say 1870s, the second someone brings up psychology when they will and then they'll go no dex known asks what year was became, its own discipline. You'll say who cares where's the beef Wendy's they got the beef beef, everybody so. That's the go gos. They got the beat to the beat This is a very musical yeah. The Malcolm Gladwell book with the baseball is blank blank. Yes, so people can check out. If you haven't already or a Boeing it up all the time sure do all those Gladwell books can't talk of Adam in a few love them
surprised no one is done. They got the beef for an ad campaign for a burger stand, it's probably expensive. I don't think You barely remember the song. No yeah? I did. I knew this song. I thought, maybe you were saying it all wrong. I was intentionally made out to be We talk a little bit about rate of divorce. For autistic kids. Parents about testing kids right yeah. I don't think many autistic kids are wedding to begin with. Well they kids on the playground. We know well, that's well! Those all end in divorce. playground weddings. Your daughter got. she got married on the playground yeah twice in one week, yeah, that's right! Then I married her on Friday use it. Yes, there she had a rang and I actually put it on her finger and everything were I loved it. You're, sick watt, so cute
It is really put a ring on her finger, her little yeah a little fat finger. Okay, because there's a there's, an eighty percent is the like number. What is the that's even higher than I think again, but a but there's some research saying that's not true, Oh really, some discrepancies here on that. But eighty percent is the general number and then people are sort of fighting back on that. Ok, the pushing back sure, they're, leaning in ok, so the hot book right now, there's a hot book out about psychedelics how it can help you and his name is MIKE Colin Michael Pollan, like the kind you would. That would give you the sniffles, sure but I know you're saying it correctly, but I'm just fanatically its sound is spelled like Paul Land yeah, calling him yeah. Michael. Might, I guess we're in it might be a
my god say just Mikey. And it's called how to change your mind with the new science of psychedelics teaches us about consciousness, dying addiction, depression and transcendence, and people are liking this book, I know a few people who have picked it off the shelf yeah, and you know I hope you don't wait till you're on your deathbed to try. hello Simon's to get a handle on your sense of self. I hope you do it when you can probably do it on my death bed. Ok, Maybe- and I won't be there to administer it to you. Why is your die at least twenty years after me. You don't know we don't know, but uh insurance actuary would say for sure you're gonna
I don't think so, because you have more money than me so you'll probably get that blood that vampire blood transfer, asian so that you'll live way longer I mean I won't be able to afford it yeah right yeah. First of all, I don't think that's the truth, and secondly, I will vampire blood in a they bring it to market. I know we're watching a vampire, we'll right now let the right one in a great swedish movie or halfway through you've, already seen it danish. I thought it was danish, but then remember one of the characters said there was a they found, the body by stock home which is sweet, and so then I had changed my tune. I thought it was a danish movie, but I said yeah, but it appears to be a swedish film it's nothing. It's a danish film shot in set in Sweden. I guess, but why would they do? That would be like doing in a Michigan movie shot in Ohio, stay in Michigan. It's not like it's that different. I can't
offense to anyone in Ohio or Michigan. Ok, so here referred to Bob a couple times. An Bob is Bob forests. Yeah Bob is his partner on celebrity rehab coolest dude. Ever he tells it like. It is yeah like you or even more than Maine. Well, if you find me to be direct, you should tune in to Bob interesting he's. A real noble should guide for people who are getting sober, yeah yeah, he tells it like it is he's, got a real real good, bullshit meter. He knows when people are full of it. I was starstruck by Bob Forrest Asylum at this like meditation event and I kept staring at him and stuff across the room, and I introduce myself to him and he didn't seem to
it was cool moves very common. Okay. You said eighty percent of people with trauma become addicts, so I could not find that statistic, but I did find sort of the converse of which is two slash. Three of all addicts have experienced some type of physical or sexual trauma during childhood, so it's kind of semantics, but it is different. Well, it is different because a lot of there's way more addicts, in general, you can come to addiction many ways, but if you are sexually abused yeah, it's of you becoming an actor quite high, but again just knowing that two slash three of attics we have yet sixty six percent have experienced trauma very small way to go to say that eighty percent of people with sexual trump become as well. I did read that it's likely
but I did couldn't get a percentage trying to trying to find it. Okay laurel below one one thing talking about sex, fiction and you're saying you're. Breaking up like Tiger was saying here was a sex addict tiger. Woods. Couldn't think of his last name? Second, that was scary. Well, I went straight to the only tiger I Know- is the son of a friend- and I thought I wasn't talking about Monica and the sun on the pod under the veil of sex addiction, Well, you do know Tony the tiger too. That's true! That's true, but during Right Tiger woods. You said that when all that stuff was happening in he said he was a sex addict in the, in rehab for it well yeah, but you were saying that you've! that that was an explanation, an excuse, who said, then you said you get?
fury aided by people who can't make the distinction yeah, but then you also say that I can't make the distinction or things, sometimes our arguments are cirque. Circling that misunderstanding that you're interpreting what I'm saying is offering an excuse when I'm offering an explanation right, yeah uh huh, so you get infuriated I mean no! No. When can you recall when Tiger made that speech? Did you go one excuse that was just a baby No, you were a baby. Fine now is in that line. I'm I don't remember. I bet I bet at the time I probably felt like it was an excuse right, I'm it's still. I still might think it's an excuse. I don't
thanks, but really quick. I believe it's a connection by the way and you almost can't think it's an excuse because he didn't say it's not my fault, that's an excuse. When you go. Oh I'm late, cuz I got hit by a car. That's not it's not my fault. He never was saying it's not my fault, I'm a sex addict. He was saying. Yes, I have a problem and I'm going to go to, and I'm a sex addict. So I think people interpreted he said was saying it was not his fault, but that is in no way what he was saying. Well, I think that's true, that's true, but it. But if you saying this happened, because I don't remember what he said. I don't know why I wish we knew the details of how it was presented exactly 'cause. I don't
long press conference and the other thing I thought was watching it did. I say this with doctor drew Pinsky that I was thinking of. The people in France were just laughing hysterically at us, like, oh, my god, look at these look at these America having to say apology for having sex. Who cares didn't like it way, more than just having sex It wasn't like he did on her healing. He had many, No, no! No! No! No! No! No! There is none of that. No, there was something with uh are in the remember know his thing: was he golf clubs there was some like no but no it just the Big news. Was he cheated on his wife? He was married. That was the big thing in his wife's leaving him and then, when, after first stripper came out. Many more came out, but there were no growth stories about him like being aggressive or anything with them. He then subsequently got in.
some guy issues later down the road but his his, admission is his. His big press conference was, he was just at the height of his he represented. He represented Buick and some underpants. I think Anna some shoes who's. No, no no and these command on now don't talk. Don't bring me he's into this. Why I'm just sort of me, you said underpants yeah, he I think more like a Haynes or uh. the lunar, nothing! Nothing! That compares me exactly exactly hi! That's all I was trying to say is come on now. like you would never even be able to string panties, he was trading in damn it. I want to find it. I can't anyhow it's just to adknowledge his public humiliation and I think the french people were probably I mean
midir ends. Mistress was at his funeral standing next to his wife, and everyone was fine with it yeah. You hear that I do here. Is it gross? No, I bet people won't know what it is me rubbing. My beard hair. It also sounds like someone walking through a forest. Listen. It does look like a Axel Foley, so this could be exercise. game. So what I'm going to do is I'm setting a scene in your walking through a forest and you're going to find facts. So if you could go like discovering, ok, you're ready, and you know I'm trying again exactly well of the percentage of Americans who have mental illness is one in five adults
in the: U S, one in five adults, forty three, good, eight million or eighteen point. Five percent experiences mental illness in a given year approximately one in twenty five adults in the US nine point: eight million experience is a serious mental illness in a given year that substantially interferes with or limits one or more major life activities. That's crazy! High one! In five! If one in five people have heart disease, we would it's all we talk about yeah, We are talking about it more, but you're, right, you're right. I'm! Then you also said I had a spell where I thought I had anxiety and I did have it really did I didn't mean to say it that way. Oh, That's what I meant is that you don't seem to have a permanent anxiety condition that requires medicine today, I don't want my medicine but pretty bad period of anxiety, yeah it it's not gone right.
oh yeah, yeah. You are really nervous when we're at the movies this weekend that there was a shooter. I was, I didn't get it in my head. Oh sure, look! Is that what I think it is a shooter am. I did think that, but I actually weirdly I mean I. I guess that was it. Part of my anxiety, but but my anxiety, presented itself in a very physical ok so yeah? I recall very much that you thought you had a couple: different illnesses, timmers yeah and you were going to the doctor kind of frequently yeah. It was just anxiety, yeah No, I did, but I was saying it I didn't have. I didn't have like a panic attack 'cause, I thought so. There's like a perfect example like that's, not an excuse. That's an explanation of what was going on in excuse me like when I be excusing that you're going to the doctor,
Many times with these Apple Condrey ACT, kind of hypochondriac things yeah and you go. You wouldn't be saying, like oh It doesn't matter that I did it or it's not my fault, you go! Oh, I have anxiety and that's how it manifested itself and I yeah yeah. yeah. I guess that's the same thing. It's the same. I don't know this the same, I'm trying! That's it! all done as you share you want to, this now you're walking and you realize there's just no more facts like like you clear the for when Hi Norfolk North? Should I go back in for some more facts? Do we get enough friends. Do you think there's more in the forest? I think there might be more ok,
I think we're good, I think we can right now. You're like Now someone just said like you could hear them from outside the forest they don't Monica. Do you want ice cream? Ok, so Monica do you want some ice cream? Yes, Wrf cream as you running through the farther coolant or exactly what was said The new one. You two were people, the the the a s m r s m. Only the rights in that it's close enough and we saw a little thing on it and the people get kind of like high off of it and it treats people's anxieties and of anxiety, yes This thing now seems set up just to bring up other cool tool in treating anxiety, asmr eye
a the reason. I never think that's right when I say it is because there's read all when the letters spelled out. I'm in we did this year that you read the letters and it says something: yeah. One of the letters is O S, a r you. You're saying: oh yes, they don't want to give it away. I guess yes, they are. they are got that riddle. Remember, did you get yeah. It is or like Eighty percent of it enough that people realized what the riddle was and we all may be. The last sentence together. Outlander yeah Non wrote it down. Yeah yeah is again graduation congratulation shot in Leander baby. Will you baby? You have a little bit all right great! Well, I love you and I love doctor drew. I hope you enjoyed a my god yeah fungi all really.
cute, fun, sad thing about DR drew. Is he heard we are going to have SAM Harris on and he came the morning SAM was coming and he was like at the very end of his like possible, time window to get to work, and he was hearing his panicking 'cause. He really had to go to work, you really wanted and then yeah and then he finally had to pull the plug and then honestly, their cars passed. He turned it. Sam turned in the second after drew turn set up a rendezvous for him liaison France style.