Elizabeth Gilbert is an American author best known for her books Eat Pray Love, Committed and Big Magic. Elizabeth sits down with the Armchair Expert to discuss growing up on a Christmas tree farm, her highest moment during the Eat Pray Love process and she talks about a tragic moment that led to a deep realization. Elizabeth recalls getting her first short story published and Dax dissects his young attraction to rogue writers. The two discuss methods of female empowerment and Elizabeth talks about her positive relationship with fear.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I over you watch me Monica. You were gonna turn. I worked at a time still probably a net loss, its full down there and then, as pop some deasey, down hard and fast, and you are the result. My apologize, I hope your cut out the belts for the listeners, welcome welcome, welcome armchair expert. My name is Elizabeth Gilbert in today's guesses shepherd I'm here Emmy Nominal, had its experts on experts Thursday. Monica we have already been raised over eight years. As what happens, and I thought I should explain to the listeners, the cherries- why I'm a little off my rocker cause I over consumed a thing. Is relevant. Don't you its context? Ok, in reality, I'm your hosts Dan Shepard and
still are eminent nominated miniature maximum Tammany Emily. Today's guest is Elisabeth Gilbert. Who is one of the most successful writers on planet earth? She wrote, eat, pray, love. It was on the New York Times, bestseller less for idle. Now, six thousand weeks read it loved that read it loved it emitted. She also Rome big magic. She wrote she has a new book called city of girls which has released two days ago on June for those available everywhere right now, so please check it out. I'm just gonna be on can I wanna be very transparent rain. I didn't we, pray love. It was one of my favorite interview, I had so much fun talking to her yeah. I came in like article nine in red that book and there's a reading about her, and I got really interest in her and then through talking to her one of my favorite guess what it cool person, a call anyways Elizabeth Gilbert, was an absolute blast. I really hope it gets talk to her again. One last thing before we go have tickets of Veal Living Cleveland. I'm gonna go further. That guy's. I can allow tweets from you.
only pensively cup come to Philadelphia come guys clean, This close go to Cleveland me in Cleveland on June. Twenty third, and there are, I could still available so go to our website to check that are also Detroit, my sweet home town. We got a hell of a lineup guess wise on this Midwest tour elderly want tickets for Detroit. That's on the twenty first go to a website to be to be w armchair expert, pod dot com and come party with us. We are supported by Palatine Bell that is causing, nor because, if you dont have time, I don't have time. No one has time to drive to a german and drive back to a jump. That's adding another hour. I barely of the hour for the work of a green paper on the cooling, because you are taking a cycling class ass inciting. Has it Fine, we want name the one that used to do, but you love yeah except I didn't love. The extra time involved the transportation. So this is how it is you get a Palatine bike. They have twelve live com
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It's really fun to have you here. I am also. I just want to applaud the fact that you're coming off of already talking about right. So but that's not a problem. So ever I talk allied just general as it would. You say as a hobby as disorder. more than as a hobby where he had always been that way. Since this is not a problem for me whatsoever, similar problem, if you stop talking to me and then I have no fear, I will never stop. Ok. Now, if you someone who enjoys talking as I do you kind of organize your life around that activity, let me give you an example: please stand being some are allowed music as much as I
love, music and I love loud music, I'm immediately mad when we're somewhere, where I'm not gonna, be other taught. The only reason I'm going anywhere is to talk to people I will leave. The restaurant has lebanese beware around, like a do very white lady think tat, honey you're like make yourself a system of british honey and then say something subversive around their entitled neglect. Babies use me and blow my head off a little lower value. Your thank you here, for you was an ideal amount of people to have over because minds capped our right to have over yes like some people they liked ever gathering of like forty people, there's music at the house, blaming ok, it. I'm already like that's going to be a lot like how about we say six and you get to brings a couple. Your kid It rejects grown ups and a couple, kids is all right. But beyond that now I want that yet because structural,
at a table? Something happens when you go beyond ten where, Now, there's gonna be modular conversations out, compartmentalize Rikers joint assembly, acoustics, don't afford for you to hear the person at the other. I have no interest in unless somebody is speechifying and that's horrible today at a dinner party, the Temple, but where somebody's is getting speeches only I have a HANS. That's me. It's a success at that that I note your or that movie obliging met one of my favorite gags and that movie was Cathy Bates Ex husband loved giving speeches. He was always trying to give a speech in given time and finally, at one point because just shut the fuck knows had been right now. I've got a funny characteristic that gives somebody, because we all know people who like live for that moment. Clint Berlin cling to ask you a super interesting childhood, specially in today's contacts. There was a chemical engineer: yes Mamma
the state or mom. She was a nurse. Oh, so she worked part time out of the house, but she was also like a full time: farm, wife and stay home, and you guys lived on a Christmas tree form. That is correct. Do isn't your long, then I'm so excited to hear about this. A you. How many acres are we talking tiny, like really tiny, like a little postage stamp piece of land in rural Connecticut and emerged shares? My dad was really into efficiency, so almost every single inch of our property had a Christmas tree on it, real I'm! Yes, we didn't have much lay space, ok and then we had a pasture cause, wheels, goats and chickens and honey bees and the then the garden like. So it was about maximizing the amount of space so that everything was producing something.
The user aware how to your time. That's comic the movement. You see happening up around the Bay area stuff. I guess it is, although I think at the time, in the seventies, around the oil crisis, there is a little bit of that, like pan back to the land kind of hippy thing here that my parents were weird kiss they're, not hippies their republicans. I guess there. I guess there more like survivalist skins behind us, but without guns, right, ok, take away the guns and racism. Will I've never quite found the demographic that they fit into, but but I guess it would be libertarians. Oh yeah, other young ivory wiles libertarian decide. Now: oh you mean yeah yeah until downward, A world economic meltdown of two thousand eight? I was like. Oh maybe we need regulation. This is a joke. He did that they will not act in anyone's even in their own best interests, the market won't regulated or collapse. That became very obvious. That did this thing has got way too complicated for us to release.
I am the invisible hand of atoms may know that great line English Channel four years ago, I heard say: if you hadn't invisible hand, what would you do? legs. That's what the market does when it has an invisible hand, deals and groups, and it does all sorts of things. But yet my dad is still of the opinion that the problem is it there's too much regulation in the banking industry, oh yeah, sure elderly workers they gonna, take no prisoners. Look at it would just like now they should all collapsed brilliancy below these by or fees around the lady eating hundreds early nineteen hundred kind of that, the original tycoons in Britain Class and all that any. When you read those books, banks were failing every two hours straight later. They would, they failed non stop eat the biggest institutions were collapsing. All the time before we got some regulation are the other great example of it, too, is the earthquake that took out Haiti. If I'm right about this monocle,
Patrick you but Haiti's one side of an island right and on the other side is dominican, enabling Othello again and the Dominican Republic did not collapse same exact earthquake, Haiti comply, it will collapse, and that's because the Dominican Republic has building regulations. and is the easy worrying, literally collapse like the buildings little guys cloud, they stayed at those lines that were then led to all bad. So we see those things you're like oh now, maybe you can't leave it to the guy or Gale writing a check to build something. To do with the perfect were another thing: little talk you out of libertarianism is going to Scandinavia. They tell me walk as you like, while everything works really really well lotta rules and they have a lot of taxes and they take care of their society while seemed a really fair enough.
When things we really out the point to the fact that they are happy to launch and they share they like making people share, and it seems that many years and we d write by driving scandinavian base, I bought guess weeding the scandal whose United, who, in his eye general term for that part of the world in my mom's families, Swedish, my dad's families, Hasn sketch hooligan in them Kate and tell me the banking moving in part of them. It's just a gift, a word that I made up while good
Maybe someone else later but at sword, I use for the language in the IKEA manuals Scouts to hear too who d screwdriver along an over generalise here, but that's kind of what might I do in the Monica points? I was wrong, but you know I've been to Minnesota a bunch of you, ah a bunch, my mom's from their ok grit. Yet they deliver on the stereotype that there then I sleep on the world and within nine minutes me at the airport. You're like. Where did I just lay on the hand, yeah yeah I'd go even further than can eighty, I mean in the heirs there in there again I think, there's a lot of elements to it. It's very dangerous climate to live. You really do need reliant neighbours and help, and all that kind of stuff, but certainly the scandinavian underpinning is compelling. It is now we then my family, my sister, and I call it Scandinavian stand off, which is when you keep braiding. Thank you.
Therefore, to each other. This happens in my family lot. We're like I will vote. my mom's house for dinner and she'll. Write me a thank you note saying thank you for coming tall ass. I writing her thanking those looking for dinner and then you might even get a thinking of saying. Thank you so much for your note, a man. The scandinavian stand off that's hard core, but one of the only upsides to having family is you don't have to be a proper and anyway that's. The actual appeal is like another sharp and on the fuck. I want you and I'll leave. I don't have the makings not might and you'll love gave about your family about laid out. You know the old joke of why wasps don't have Gripsack Sauternes, because too many thank enhanced her there. That's the kind of protection from ok, you're, beginning a thank you now. Oh my gosh. I look forward to have I've only got one from a guest in it was from David, said, airs, who we worship. Of course,
are you president? Are we ve never met him, but I'd love him so early in my heart, and I once was a book to her, where I was following him from city to study and like every city I went to. I got incredible David said era stories I they would you like to hear one I would normally okay. This is one of the story is that I was told I was told that David sitters was in the book signing line. This was in pretty southern place. Every time he saw a woman who was there with her husband, sort of figure middle aged nice. Looking man who looked like he had come just type b there with his wife, It be standing back with a wife was getting the book sign David would call the guy forward and he'd say listen. I am. I just want to ask you a personal question. I'm kind of taking a survey. Do you mind if I ask a question that has assured he said if you were to wake up one day in the woods, with a lump on the back of your head and bruises and cuts on your knees and a used condom hanging out of Europe
would you tell everybody and the very nice in his flight Christmas sweater would be like, No, I would say you wanna go campaign with me. It too, I, after guy after guide that amazing yeah, really all that based on the story to tell lies, o charming and lovely that he somehow gets weird like a bit. Certainly hope. It's ok that I just repeated, though, of course I feel it alive and I love it allows loves. Should it won't come up often is on their jokes you're. Apparently, I'll tell him not allowed to tell, but I was more than a very open about it, so I enjoy molesting jokes. One of my favorites is a voice.
Out leader and your gowns voice, gas will rightly equity Boyscout leader and a young boy scout walking deep deep into the woods tonight and boyscout says the book the scout leader It's scary out here. I'm I'm really scared. Ngos hurrying, if you want me walk around here by myself, ninety okay! So oh boy, when I was growing up, I had my my dad my grandfather, two of my. So my great grandfather when they were all alive and when they were all active alcoholics instead of like recover, then my uncle is like a reform. The holocaust point, my dad doesn't drink, like you used to my grandfather's, doesn't drinking more benefit for this but like the there were these gatherings, these and when gatherings when these guys they were all lay areas outward aegis, loud joke telling competitive drunks and there the happiest man.
So my entire childhood is sitting at that at that table as a seven year old and their editing themselves. One share one sense of consciousness. The second great girl sitting at the table, maybe doesn't need to be hearing the rape, choke abortion, violence and it just trained me in everything what to delight in the world and how to be with premature Anybody. I guess what I was able to be a bar tender and work on a ranch and do all this stuff that I've done my life by its also people ask a question: if you could have dinner with anybody living her dead, I might like. I just wanna have one of them. again like if I could just go back and like yeah, just sit as a kid at that table and listen to the completely hideously filthy, jokes being told by my trunk male relatives.
I can't think of anything that I would. Rather you should look into my borders can be there. I totally agree with you in its relevant to think of as apparent I would argue, you're an example of it. I'm an example of it. The highlight of my childhood was being able to observe that firm. It's an also either their teaching in this interesting dynamic which exists in society. Any any society which is there's the Baden than there's this dance around playing with it and there's some weight to that. You feel at all times. I do the weight of society. What your ex fact it is good or bad at a groceries or like you're, aware of it at all times, and I would argue, it serves a pretty cathartic purpose to be able to break that, for little periods of time in a way that is acceptable in its healthy, somehow, kids know too, I mean I went to school and talk to my third grade teacher. That way, right next day, like I knew that this is for this time and your superman
that you're getting to sit at the table- and I felt like I had a tiger by the tail half of jokes, I didn't understand, but what I did understand. I was no and enough tucked them away, and I still have those jokes in my memory, but I know one told me: you can't bring this to school. I just knew fighting of my greatest frustration as a kid. It was most often bat I was being taught to in a way that I felt was deaf the underestimate what I was understanding right. No, no, I get there ice am seen all the stuff, I'm not not seen he and I was frustrated with the notion. I was not understanding it. You know it's almost like a few like, I was getting gas letter, something like well. That's the ambassador of the Minnesota Scandinavian upbringing rights of my dad's families from New York. So they had like my mom's family, wouldn't have done that arrives right and they would have said you know you have to be nice. People have to be polite about your neighbors and you can't say bad things about people were
dad's Hamley would sit at the table and they would talk about the neighbors call them a conglomerate of assholes high because that's what they actually felt there is nobody at the table saying you know you're not supposed to say that about people like yeah you're, told was the Ceta about people. If they happen to be a conglomerate of ass, it was like some east coast true to secure a year. I knew there was a consensus, mental life because I think the truth always feel safe, yeah, where's, someone's an asshole in someone's telling you it's that you can't say that I feel bad about them. There's something agitating in it. Were you like, but that's not in keeping with my experience, yeah, there's dissonant ass with what year observing we are being told you are allowed to observe, but I think ideally would have what you had, which is like a New York that about you and your dad and skin and avian mom. I was definitely drawn to negativity and binding with people over mutual hey Prince for things when I was younger night and as I've got an older, I find that I tried now to Bonn mostly with people, that we have a shared love for something I M for me, it's is, I feel better at the end,
all about right, anything ones right or wrong. Just how do I feel at the end of it, and I feel much better doing it this way, but I am, I am grateful to have been exposed to all the different kind so that I could make it choice and don't you think when you're young and learning how to be funny, it's the easiest way to be funny, too, is to be mean and hello. It's the first stop Europe, and then you try to figure other ways to be funny beyond that cause. It makes you feel little acidic. Yes, while so you're honest Christmas tree, you don't have television and you know, have even radio or Reykir players or no media, no media either on the site. More men, in his report. We could open New England, yeah Connecticut and we don't have neighbors are age, but we have books, lame yearns for Threeg into reading in books a library was within reach if you could get your hands on a bicycle,
so we had that end, and I address this: are older yeah she's elder and she is a writer as well. You were just a clue in jeopardy this week to unless a sister she is a young adult, chums but greater, and so she kind of created the world that we lived and when I was a kid because she would read stuff and she was three years ahead of me- she was and is brilliant she's kind of the sharing out of of spinning these narrative, Susie rupture hurl shares from arabian nights, the story, teller, who keeps telling stories issue or die Catherine had that ability and she just generated everything that we played like. I don't remember us really ever play any games accepted she made up, and then I was her foil. So I will just be whatever part she told me to be in the area and and she wrote plays and and we made books and should incorporate anything issues currently reading. She would just kind of alchemy with her imagination and turn into a game. So she's reading a book about cave twins and we become the cave twins.
But she's? Also reading a book about Sdr, and so one of us has polio, she was just force of education and imagination. I remember ever wanting to be anything other than her. You know like what she could do. I wanted to do yet you guys want to publics. I am right there can be this weird transition for siblings right where she's your whole world she's, the coolest person you ve ever met, and then you guys enter this other world and then you can have varying levels of social scale and it can get like murky. Cannot yes, Absolutely. I was always more social is way easier for me to make friends and also because I had to learn from a very early age. How do agree and adapt, because I was smaller and stupid or you know, and you ve got the the older, more powerful, smarter person and you just can't really do much, but a green adapt. I was gonna win in any kind of a battle against her some rise,
agree, ability and adaptability may be able to to make friends easier. I would also argue to witness it now with my girls, who are two years apart: their foreign six, the amount of aid the action, the a child clearing up the hourly right throughout a day right, it's in the hunter, literally them rejected all the wrong time. Now, gas and learning that you can live through that yeah, that's interest is an asset, so it's like, you might think you might wanna go talk to somebody. Then you might go over, they might hate, meaning yeah. Mrs read's me twenty times a day, olive through that I'll. Try, you don't say May you hit the Astor or you don't wanna, be around me a message and won't be around seventy percent of the time. That's cool. I know others feels in your social, circle now are most of your friends, younger and middle siblings or older siblings, because almost every one of my
and does the youngest or a younger child. A very few friends who are honest. We just did this. We are at a poor party at our friends. Our there's probably like sixty knows- and we just started going through the order right in what had kind of happened is the people who I mean. The conversation were largely younger, siblings or middle children right and then we are isolating who the only children were an like. What was my wife she's by yourself over in the corner of this poor party. Doing God knows what and then the other one was over. On the other side, the put like it was there in real travelling a catering we were kind of seeing patterns emerges, as we ask. Only child thing was pretty start goes entirely, and Chris sandwiches really fine Eric who you bitterly, I believe, on the other hand, out of our add up already middle, and I just now an escape at your kind of really an only child and wage her brothers, eight years younger than societies, she's dancing, she's gets
in both. But what I'm curious about is there was a momentary here and a farmer. He was working rubber chemicals. He was fires at the URL Chemical factory in Naugatuck, Connecticut, one of my favorite top vulgar innovation and how I saw tat. He was it. He was a rubber chemical guy. It's a very inspiring story. How we came up with artificial rubber. I think it's a testament to what we can do. If we have to do some re because of the need in the war. It is our moral or do we no longer have access to all the rubber trees that were growing Mps and we are trying to replant them in South America, which was working varying success. We are like this isn't cut net right. They need dont money and sciences into it and said solve this. Now in like the Manhattan project, they came back me like we can make rubber out of, but it only those merit is yet. You have no idea how literally fascinated by this not even makes our unlike ray
eyes. Do this as own spiral to go out so interested me. While I dad hated it, he did him he's a brilliant mathematician scientists. His little spectrum me really can neither give receive. An order was always meant to be. Solitary always meant to be a farmer and thank God he found he found Christmas reforming and that became his salvation ended equipped. He did over there that he eventually didn't, because my parents are so frugal and I will have a frugal off with anybody's parents about it like, but because they're so frugal he was able to eventually quit and just be a farmer, and then he became bar happy and then he was when I was a little because he still alive and he still farmer is able to take money from you now now were given them. That's not you actually have I've sent them on vacations and, yes, it is
it's. A very complex area has a lot of insanity around that my family, but whence he became farmer. He was a lot happier. He was never meant for corporate world or industrial worlder right meetings, bosses ages, these camp were they in general, supportive of you and your sister pursuing writing as a talk loyally, because dad hated his career, he didn't ever have that thing of all. You need to get a solid job because he had learned instantly what a trap. That was all right, so I mean I remember him saying very early on in oh: go to college, to get an education, not a career, the great and terrible thing about my parents and often a great and terrible thing. But somebody is the same thing, but in this case with them is very much so there whole parenting philosophy is you're on your own, so the terrible thing, but that is your like into work. I'm on my own I'm a kid. I dont know how to do it. You think in others, no coddling elite figured out the great thing about that is you're on your own,
so there is also no helicopter ing, hovering or controlling in terms of what you have to be. Is a wall Dorothy? Isn't that all scandinavian? I guess kind of yeah yeah and my mom side. I would say that that was tinged with a bit of terror on her part, in MRS sense of shit, a real fear of raising daughters who would be dependent on Ebay because should seem first him what happened to women who are dependent on anybody so yeah for her. It was like panicked, like you have to learn. How to do everything. Yours because nobody will every a little way there. You was the little scarcity base. You know, no one will ever take our view that the great thing about that is that their whole thing was like will we know we're not gonna, take care of you, so you go. Do everyone as long as you're, not asking us to two bankroll you or or help you anywhere wink of shit? What should I do? I get your life? Not ours, and then they felt and they treated us like that from a very young age leak, put a lot of responsibility on us and a lot of K. Do you do every one and in less Europe causing the problem
now you went to and why you ass an did you love and why you you might shortening your career, and I got. I think I got her pretty nice education and weigh it wasn't as good a school then as it is now, and I'm not sure I would have gone into it now. I see how competitive it is now, but all I wanted was to be in New York City. Only one to be was in downtown New York City, so for me, and why you is just an excuse in New York and in what I loved most about it was is second you step out of it building it anyway, you you're not on a couch campus Hearin city in that's all I've ever wanted was to be in New York, so it was awesome for me yeah I'd such an and fractious place. I was just there. This weaken yeah, you walk out side in your just overall energy level goes up. Foreigner precise, like oh, it's eleven, a meme, almost fifty and I still feel lake for some is in New York. City is the only place. Moreover, I don't feel like a visitor tourist. Just always felt like are supposed to be their mouth. When
you were in school, you were studying Poli Sci. Why were you doing? Probably sorry, because I didn't want to take english classes, and I really did take my dad up on what he had said. Get an education and I felt like I should take advantage and learn stuff I didn't know or couldn't learn on my own, for me meant a lot of history and a lot of political science, but I wanted a broad liberal arts education, but I didn't feel like studying. English was going to get that for me. So what I would do this is fucking nerd is that I would get the curriculum for the classes and in the summer's I read everything that those classes taught by my own cause. I figured if I can just read a book sharp Bulgaria in your writing short stories throughout this period. In do you have favoured at that time short story right desires Allison row I loved. I was reading a lot of was reading in college. I really like during a blank. Ah,
the route trilogy somewhere people are screaming has now I love them, so you're negative, their dash, valium tweets I'll find. As I was feeling allotted dunes, all the pretty horses was of a really important book for me in high school and culture. Relented. Hemingway lot of fuckin I wanted. I think I ll want to be with those heavy hitting literary guys. I finally to be like those guys was going, the ultimate romantic. They were like when I pictured when I pictured what writers There was a period where I read a lot of stuff and I at a very romantic view of the world, and I wasn't sober yet and now I'm sober, and when I read Hemingway, I'm like yeas up huntin it's five in the morning
he's on over he's, not writing about it, but he anyway, as I as a serious drinking Romania's, was serious depression. He blows his own head off at the end of his I've been so interesting to now is like a full blown dull. Try to read between the lines of a lot of that's now. You'll see that in fact nor too oh yeah, all those guys I mean I did the alcoholism in that arrow waste, absolutely on the sharing of male when you're young it. So it is a pretty, is hard to not be a young romantic person and think that that's just not the shit yeah. We had no issue with me now call it. My hair was bukovsky, I'm like yeah, I'm a fucking, drunk yea meddling actually sit with young men and Bukovsky. Can anyone tell me, would you, but it is yet when I read it now, I it to me what's very obvious now at forty four is: he was a guy that felt invisible in schools. These huge it was all over his face. His father was a world where one like beat the shit out
miserable existence came to hate women, because no women liked him became an alcoholic got some fame had access to win which made him even maybe more massage domestic. As now he didn't trust. Why they liked him like that. Now I can see all that right, but when you're eighteen, what I saw was yeah go live at the bar. Everything else will the care of itself. All the stories will fall out of that experience. One need only order that first drink and then the whole operable Sterical. That was so appealing to me right. The lack of accountability was appealing to me Ray, and it must be telling your young in your so scared that you're gonna get trapped in it and Mary a job and goods. When you see that I feel like the female equivalent for girls that
it for a romantic girl that aged gives Frida Kahlo felt like there's. This kind of I want to be as wild and free as her and dressing we're drag and not plug my eyebrows, rebellious yeah. I'm also never surrender to come gin and yeah. That's interesting its harder for girls to get there. I think it's romantic. a guy to be like fuck everything, but its way harder for a girl at that age to get on board. With that idea, I think is whirling almost hubris hop yelling. I would need to somehow imbue superpower to behave like there was a guy you're, almost halfway there. Just by this may be a guy. You know are totally agree that interesting
aid to arm chair, if you dare, we are supported by me and now we are in a Monica boys- have two different techniques when using the term, let alone Pepe Alot of gentlemen, pull it through the barn door. I e Wabi. Why and there's other folks like me, they like to drop all the gear and pull everything out yeah after the new boxer brief, has a fly. That's great, got the same great cut, as the boxer briefs would still made of the micro modal fabric, which is three times softer than caught. I just love it and looking right now, which ones I'm wearing just a letter. one now. Oh, yes, I'm wearing kind of dark. Green me Andy's is also the go to for this Gaza is lounge where on the planet, I set a star wars, ones. Either The so called for May the force be with you day. That's
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so you were ready, shorts or is again wrote a short story called pilgrim and you got public Esquire yes, now I in college, who was trying to get a book of short stories published. I did the thing where the s see that below what he called yet some Jesse area. Yet I spent a lot of money on those Emily's who- and I haven't- I spent I sent on earth of samples short stories and you know you'd be delighted that I just gave you a rejection that are most, namely I don't know, do even get their extreme and get the rejection letter. What was the experience like of getting a postcard baron like our it wasn't? It was a phone call and it was after seven years of those rejection letter box what Arabs in years. But what had happened is there in others those levels of rejection, letters licked not in the form letter and then every once in a while, your former with a little knew at the bottom. I got a couple of those that said like interesting, not for us,
in somebody's handwriting and God help them if they signed their name to it, because then from then on assent, it was like a haven of whisky. Already lighter, doesn't want to be more exact and in like I would lie in the cover letter and be like thank you for asking me to send you more just in case. They forgot that they hadn't actually asked me now, but there the guy named Tony friend, who was an editor at Esquire, who wrote me like a pretty nice, actual letter back after one of my stories saying like we almost bought this but its way for us and do please send more and so for two years I sent him more things just kept saying: nope nope nope nope, and then am I moved around so much because I was doing my version of my book skip thing in my own way of like living in it places I could working in as many jobs. I could so. I always gave my parents phone number and address on the letter because they never moved anywhere. So I figured if ever if something happened in oak, sometimes it takes six months for them to get back to him by then I'm in a different locations,
so I'm my uncle was staying at our house and he took the message. Five o clock at night on a Tuesday saying, Esquire called, and he took no further message me because you think about dollar called me in by the way somebody Esquire magaziner. If I get the name right, here's the number that was one of the worst knights of my because I didn't dare to hope. I was like other calling to heavy renew a subscription calling because it was just remember being in a kind of panic that night and then at nine o one the next morning going, and it was Tony's direct line and he said our buying off and I didn't have an agent I mean it was out of the slow pace at you're, the first unpublished writer, with punishing since permanent ah my so he was such an angel and he was now much older than me. I was twenty four something and he was about the same age and teaches help me find an agent. He just nurse made me through the entire process, and I still have the agent that he found me and I M just any two full caretaking did it come easy to use to avail
yourself to be men toward or helped India and one who wants to help me his well come at any time. That's gotta help me yeah as a good law. The air no like, if anything, I'm usually outweigh, run, screaming help me so yeah. Definitely that might be one of the better parts, designing the way harder for a guy, I think or to be vulnerable. Honourable going to admit, you need help universal service figured out and yet not check, yeah yeah leaked to say I don't know about you, and I want to say this to enlighten. You know it's coming with me too about the media, world and women in the media world. It was so beautifully taken care of by them male editors and agents and publishers who I worked with all through my twenties. There is such a sense of real mentorship, an inkling bucket Uni Junior at spin, who gaping my first journalism job and
was at some point sued for sexual harassment. Alleyway by people gave me such bigger chances than they should have. I was nobody, and just one after another of of these guys were like. Let me show you how to do this. Let me help you out. It is that I've I've I just gotta, wanted to send a little love to those men, because they were really really good to me. A very profound, no way not in a kind of patronising share their little girl way. But you know we wanted. You are. What can we do to make this easier for you? What are the chances you wanna take one of the risks you wanna take. How can we support you? I got that it she Q. I got that its spending for years are. I only worked with men which why wasn't I write a chick like girl, but when you believe what was that, because percentage wiser number wise though there weren't even females indisposition, yet she was sure we are yet to be sure. I mean all of those magazine to run my men and they were really about man. I mean spin was mostly writing about man and cheek. He was mostly way
that man will gentleman's relating to be fair, the area for their jobs, their immense magazine stay on Brian Eno by the hour, so grateful for that people will sometimes ask me about reddened screenplays. Should I get this bullshit? I get that balkan bubble and, unlike you, that's all that's great honesty. The facts go right. A terrible, fucking screenplay cause that's what's. First right, you're, not gonna, sit down and right pot fiction. You're gonna learn the right through writing. Not through reading about writing that right is like you're gonna. Just do the thing read it realised by the way, when you're not so impressed with yourself for finishing something and loving it causes of that. Months later? You re read it now. I want a week there that's what are weak there and then, through the browser rewriting you can write like do you have any feelings about that, as well as leaders like engaged at best recently in a tweet where she said in a yellow, just keep coming to me in asking for tricks end and hence end in a waste. A game
how to get ahead in writing just act. I wish that there was another thing I could tell you other than set your ass down and do it every day, but unfortunately that's always going to be my answer. There just isn't another way to do it beyond that rises. Isn't so you married all the books you on it can, but no nothing nothing will get you there are them in doing it. I mean I've also learn, though theirs. I used to say that two people, and now I dont, say that people, because I think the way Now that a little bit more subtle, I think, but I feel like you're an adult, then you and know how you're circadian rhythms work sharp and if you reach a certain age than you know what works for you. You should know by this point your life. What time of day you you're good like one time of day, is your brain at its best, because the reality as we all get me,
you like to go to horses her eye day where we actually feel kind of awaken alert, and the big important question is who currently gets that time from the best time of your brain every day? Who or what currently gets that, and would you be willing to take it back so that it's yours and then give the world this can re version of you, which is the other twenty two hours of the day are high, and so you get to decide based on just your own empirical experience. What what is it free for me? It's twin sixty eight in the morning. That's when I'm sharp I wake up on fire, but there are other people who can't even think till three p m and it would be so cruel to say you have to sit down every morning right because that would be murderous from the right. I also have a friend is bipolar and she doesn't have to good hours it issues to good days a month. Maybe but she's figured out that those are. Hers Twenty eight is the month for managing her mental illnesses, her full time job right and then, when she gets that clarity she's like fuckin, I'm taking this, you won't be hearing from it, because this is the only time I can write. I know
somebody's got young kids. They might have one day where their their divorce in their single mom and their husbands got the kitten that their one day, if you were to say to them, you have to write every day. That's cruelly cat right, you know. So it's really just about. I think a ferocious self accountability about looking at the reality of your life, your biology, your energy, your mental health issue, financial needs and being like what do I have that I can give, my willing to draw circle around and say: okay, this is sacred and it might just be the one day a month. That's fine! That's yours, too, and let me let me put a little final point in my earlier state, because that was a little harsh one of my, my personal, knowing my own psyche is, I have to give my permission, to write something shitty I have to say just right: five pages they can suck that's my trip from JANET. Is very generous to yours a whole year, its legality, you you're only commitment right now is five pages, not five great pages. Just that's your only commitments and do it by page because I do I do it by time-
Don routes that writer he's a very famous screenplay writer, he's kind of someone. I look up to allow any has document he gives to other writers, and it's called the kitchen. Timer uses a kitchen timer pain. Nothing in the world is allowed to be addressed in that one hour and other than your writing, and if you did it without doing thing, but that you knew had a great deal of rating, that's the only measure for me like did you sit now? Why did you not do anything else perfect day of writing a letter? That's right too, but through me also sounds like your managing expectations nicely like you're right, Korea is, I think, a lot of people- and I have heard you speak about this when you ask people what their character defects are and they ve lists perfectionism. As one of unto me, that's a little triggering like also your one problem is that you're too perfect right, my own pet beef, but humble bag, you
but people certainly suffer from being perfection ass yet and can be really arresting for a writer you will not just in writing. In every single creditor lie ass, I mean even in relationships even and in every speech. You know my line is that protectionism is just fear in it and a fancy mean coat and pearls pretending to be fancy all. It is fear that you're not enough that you're not enough the tuna and the reason perfectionism is such an insidious version of fear is that it tricks you into thinking that its virtue, so perfectionism great great awful vile trick is to tell you that it makes you special when all its doing is stopping you from having any kind of a life. That's rewarding are good or or generative her or interesting yeah. So it's your friend the right for you in big magic. If you look at fear a bunch yeah, then you have a cool relations
with it right now. I wish that I had this relationship with fear and other aspects of my life, but I have it and creativity are involved in creativity and into fairy loving, friendly relationship. My theory of it is that you know fear is the oldest part of the conscious like that: their Rosalie and further reptilian brain right, Thomas, a tick tock. It doesn't have any subtlety, it doesn't have any creativity. The only thing it knows is to tell you to stop, and it will always tell you to stop when you're about to do something. We fear itself does not know what the outcome is going to be so fear. Looking at you about to embark on something does know, the outcome is gonna be just to be so if it's like shut it down sure why? Why take that risk fears thinking if, if it can be said to think is I don't know if this is happening? things before I dont know how this ends. Therefore, no yeah, I'm because
the problem and it ended my death, which is why, when you sit down to do something like rate a poem, it feels like you might die like it's so weirdly frightening, because your fear actually thinks you will, and in my experience of fighting it is that the were you fight it than more. It asserts itself because the more you fight it, the more I go now things are really serious. There's a panic of no shot. The whole thing you know it's on. Lockdown will it has ratio so the more it fights? The more of your adrenal glance around your cortisol? It's got. High octane share in front of the other party, rain having that conversation with itself doesn't have acting. No, it's also knew it tells you are only a hundred thousand years old and the fear his lot older than that like the new creative consciousness, is like this, this brand new operating system, Fear has no idea what it is. They don't really know how to talk to each other a lot, and so my tactic has been to learn how to talk to fear and really loving way and to be really kind to it, and so it's very different from what I think we're Talkin
culture, which is like Github Rudy kid through near showed his boss punching phase, which I don't know, I fear, doesn't work for me. It is all it does, is to make me more scared. So for me it is this very gentle, very loving, very motherly voice. That's like oh, my god sweetheart. I can see that you're really super freaked out right now and you are totally loud to stay in the room I dont send into exile in your totally to be here with me and I'm in here and in me, in your sister creativity are going for road trip. You're welcome to come. We ve got a car seat for you in the back. We love you you're part of a family get in the car. You not allowed to drive and you're not allowed to interrogate guideline depict snacks and you're not allowed to suggest detours, but you'll, be in the car and then fears job is to sit in the back seat. The car screaming and terror in the entire time, and I'm Victoria honey we got. You were doing this anyway right. So there's an inclusion of it that, rather than an exile you and honour of speaking to her that opera hosted. Ah, there are twenty thousand phone
right. If you're, a human being, you had to have had anxiety and fear about the very initial step out onto the stage, so what'd fear say to Elizabeth what it Elizabeth say to fear that one interesting fear took me over in a physiological way. At that point, I'm pretty comfortable public. Speaking in this by me. I don T, the talks, but I was I've. Never certainly done it. A stadium tour where Oprah sitting in the front row watching you and she's just said, I'm giving you exactly fifty minutes to inspire twenty thousand people. Gotta look you know I'm here, don't don't let them down. Don't let me down, I remember, being backstage the first day and I'd never had the experts before, but my ear. We had this statement. My knees were quite literally knocking from a drama. We could feel my balloon sitting each other and my hands were shaking. There is no way to hide it and it wasn't even thought it was just a complete physiological response. Anybody who has staked phrase policy this with the palm sweating right now here by what happened was some
other pardon me kicked in, and- and this is exactly how the conversation when I said to Myself- there are times in your life- is where the greatest gift that you could ever give two women, because it is ninety five percent women in this audience. The greatest gift that you could ever give two women is to show them your human vulnerability, and let them see that you're, exactly like them in your anxiety in Europe, security, and today is not that day. Motherfucker today is not that day, because these women, already know how to be afraid. They already know how to be insecure. They already know how to diminish themselves your job today in them generous gift that you could possibly give to these women is to model for them. When it looks like went on, stands in her own self confidence in our own power. So why don't you show them? What that looks like the way I sort of twisted it in my head was I haven't offering that I want
make out of love, and so the love that I felt for the women in that audience and for me wanting them to be able to see what it looks like for a woman to be relaxed, because so few women are relaxed overcame the fear. So is again love over fear, but it was love for them. Yeah overflow for myself, so I love it. But let me just someone be an advocate for to say I got devils advocate. I remember poor Monica will never be tracked, astounding either read or heard that the some result of self help books. It doesn't help people in that they are introduced to a model that is kind of unobtainable and they dedicate all this time to and they now have caught the tools and yet they can implement them to another feel even more like a failure, because they were just given the tools Campbell Moray. So I would just I'm I'm curious. I could see where you go well, you stepped out on age in you just showed the these women, something that really is
almost impossible. Could that had the effect of like? Oh here's, one more thing I couldn't do as opposed to a view came out, you go, are knocking I'm going to pass out, but I'm gonna go any ways because I love you guys and I want to do this right- is more reliable. I mean I'd love what you're saying I'm just working at all through my head. You mean it be absolutely right about that I don't know I'm just wondering yeah go right since I have a question for you: have you ever been helped by self help? Hey if you call a in the big book about Oxenham itself, L book, which I think it is bs incredibly, but I dont know that the book on its own- in fact, I am almost certain the book on its own, wouldn't have helped me. It was the cuban unity and vanishing and how this dude interpreted that thing and how he employed that part of the book that I don't really understand, or almond atheists and journey other atheists, how you guys deal with off as a higher powers, yeah yeah yeah. Oh this guy made a great point. Nine
sun comes up every day and it goes out everyday and I'm not the force doing that re mummery, oh yeah, I'm not gonna marry insignificant compared to gravity in the cemetery. The universe. Thank you. Re right, like that line from the book of job. Have you ever commanded, the dawn? Never nonaligned like that? Do they helpful at that? I find it really helpful. Do when I start again like ie and not once have I command had on coming up and gone long after I'm gone, but I would say definitely it's it's been. The more that community, that's hell room that helps him more than the buck. Yes, if there is one aspect I want to make me want to be very clear, I was not in any way trying to challenge. I will take away. I waited, I think it's a really. You know I'm still thinking about it. I guess my question is: do you think you could have come back from that acknowledgement? Well, I think what I spoke about in those fifty minutes was very vulnerable.
The stories that I was telling them were not heroic stories. They were stories of my pain and depression and sows testifying in a way, but it was more about what I read We want to see our women almost even the way you stand as a woman are women who can say and in a stadium relaxed with their head up and say yeah, I'm here because I should be. I did feel like there was a great gift to offer. Was to say I'm here, because I was invited to be here and because somebody- I trust trust me so and I tell you my my sad, I'm fucked up stories about my supper- fucked up mistake, but I'm in a tent to you from a place of show me what it looks like to just own. Your story not come out on that stage and say: oh, my god, I can't even believe I'm here. I shouldn't let you know cuz, that's some, see we're doing a lot that I wished to they wouldn't quoting
they may they gave a lot yet wish. I wish that opening a great strong statement in the main book in it with, but I don't know you know, lotta people black. That was my take away from editing the show that the difference between listening to what the way women speak in the way, men speaking up notice it as much in life when your list learning and all you have as the auditory. It's so incredible the percentage of women who back pedal and who apologize and the percentage of man it's the reverse eighty five percent of women do at eighty five percent of men. Don't do anything, it's incredibly apparent when they're just listening. I think that's the feeling and it worked cause. I my physiology relaxed in that sense, because I felt like oh no. This is what we all need, so it was almost like the collective love that I felt stronger than the eager fear yea I'm. So I don't know whether that's transferable, but that's how it worked. For me. We have
other, really weird anecdotal observation from doing this show if we then honoured thirty guess, Weave invited, probably four hundred people to be on the pot gas. If we broke down most likely, you say yes and, whose least likely to say yes, it is pretty stark You ask a white male if he wants to come talk for two hours and like you, I doubt levelling out two hours were the stiff. Their numbers are cut in half for women, and then it just keeps going down. So we just started kind of like again. It's only a sample set of five hundred people, but what we ve seen it makes sense to me and if you would have said to me before doing this, men are so entitled like they just so in what are known, as I believe that, but just witnessing who says yes, it does lead me to think you're leaving. We ve got two hours, a great shit to say all white men they ll do the here.
Of every movie of effort has really were the one who said we are talking in this society. The president's a white man that this you know here, you that's Mary and on more favourable yeah. That's that's really interesting that I think you, I think your decision to be confident is what helps, and that is what helps turn the page I'll bet is to see more women in those powers. This year I grant wages model. What it would look like you know, some of your anxiety was would probably totally subconscious, but the mere fact that yes in your lifetime, you ve probably seen ninety percent of these great speeches probably made by manner so that some subconscious level is in the stoop and I've seen lotta women get onstage and start by saying. Oh, my god, you Adam Sandler apologizing Romania, and I just I don't want to see any more
cities are the great counterpoint to you. You haven't, I would call it you would not a pretty great. Then I'd from getting published in Esquire too then getting published think it's a great, ok good good morning, don't think of their own right. It's been inquiry great totally. You become a free plants writer in uranium for all these great publications, G, Q and spin than times magazine and you write about you bar tender. Now I completely now acknowledged I've been wrong for twenty years. I always thought Coyote ugly was based on blogs and have our failure in a family dispute. Ok, Hugson efforts and Coyote ugly were too bars in New York City that were both born of the same parent and their parent bar was a bar called the village idiot that I used to go to when I was in college. That was the dive. increased I've ever been in my life, I mean the guy on the bar used like piss.
The beer I seen. I know it's just it arose place, but there's something also fabulous cows fiasco I loved it. I used to eyes together and when I was in college in the bartender all women and they were kind of skanky kind of hot kind, of tough kind of bakery kind of cool and made when the bargain too crowded. They would white the barn fire with the card when fifty wanted just keep people back. I've got another heaven wider and then it closed numerous I'm health coincide with incidents and then to bartenders from their each opened one open kind. ugly Red Cross street I've been hugson, heifers and Coyote ugly was Where I worked all can, and I wrote an article four g q about my time. Working at Coyote, ugly, like me, became ably was made out of it simultaneously. Hugson hovers became a very successful barn first
reason because they have they were so similar. They have the same kind of five years on the thing you know big of worker motors our baby hours. You know you guys come in and you just poor shot rate down their throats like there's. Also it was all very similar, but but in fact, occur in fact. I am very happy to set the record straight that equality. Ugly, was the wisdom. I I know, because I worked there- the story yeah yeah- I its long occurred to me that I'm wrong, but I'm glad to understand how it was somehow there is some connected. It is my honour to set the record straight academically out, as our good friend, Caitlin Olsen was in Coyote ugly and came up on her episode. I'm still was like. Why do I think it's hogs and have no it's coyote ugly? Ok, so you wrote that article and became a movie at that time is there I mean is that we are this thing that must be right. It was it you didn't write the movie neither went away. I never even believe for a minute that that movie was going to exist charm and I still have trouble believing that it exists, and it has almost nothing.
With the article that I wrote in Ciccu Disney called and said. We want to buy this because we want to me a story for teenage girls will like, which is essentially what Coyote ugly was of like. How did you take a costume bar filled with day drinking alcoholics and like a real boost bag, die and turn it into something that public footloose, but they did and they it's interesting. If you watch the movie, they manage somehow take drinking out of it. You they're gonna be out of the water, they literally dance around us, but there is not really is Erin drinking interesting that, whereas my articles will entirely Patrick what was your take on that? bearing on the movie run when your article, I loved that job so much I mean I Can I have the stamina to continue it. I work there for about a year and a half, and then, after that I went to another bar that was much less strenuous because it was a lot of physical work working there,
was laid out on a show it to put on a show. It was your responsibility to keep that bar packed and entertained. Were you drinking hard, your site? I've never had the stamina drink hard, so I faked drinking IRAN and because it was actually required of the bar tenders there that they get drunk every night with the customers, and I couldn't drink like that once without going to a hospital. I was never ship, as my trick was that I would not back a shot of Jack genuine, I would change back with a coconut spit it back into the coat I got away with that for a year and a half there was one guy a regular name. Lou was so attentive to lady was helped me when I he's like I'll, give you twenty five dollars for cocoa. Very unsettled. It's like. Don't you I'm telling you, I literally lose my job, but but it was fine just exciting and it was an inherent water power, because there is no bouncer, and the woman little who, on the bar had a theory, and I think she's really right that who, having
women only working behind the bar and no bouncer. There would never be bar fights and she was completely right. There is no path. Male power for drug men to fight against you, and so all I ever had to do to keep shit under control was to turn the lights on internal jukebox off like the minute two guys got into it. I'll just lights would be up two bucks, a bee, oftener Blake. I nobody's getting a drink or musical play until this stops always activists. entirely one hundred percent are frequently we're fights breaking. I learned that would be as far as it would go. I have to do that and once or twice a week twice a week. You know that was it in, and there was something about that there was a dude and warnings. They would have thought me, but because it was a girl, they didn't this. There was a weird kind of power than I had over all these men. I left her. I was a waitress too, and I never felt like I had powers a waitress. I always felt like a servant, and I felt people often treat me like shit is a waitress there's something about being Barton.
Oh gives you enormous fucking power and those eleven there is an evil trying to get your attention. Air waiters, company or table yeah you know have to tie dont have to serve you, and in so I threw men the bar like without any problem in the other thing, is the each bartender had her own kind of policy of regulars. So I had my teams. I had like twenty guys there, who I loved him and who loved me. So I never felt like I was endanger this. This is my family and makes me think of this great article. Vanity Fair was that it was about Germany and that the german character and how the very straight laced clean, orderly in there really drawn. Ok, so, like point was like they wanna be close to the flame like they're. Not from that in their conduct drawn to it was a very great article, but I wonder coming from the Christmas reform, is you and your sister right? It's not
Didn't you end up at this bar? No, I mean I walked into that place. I was trying to go to the validity of that might have a drink with my best friend. It was closed and there are like others in your place, and it was literally the first stay that coyote ugly opened and I walked in, and I was like Mama like a just, and I had also just come from working for two seasons unaware. Why arming? And that was all There were similar kind of via your career as a cook, and then it was a trail cook ranch hand, and it was around those kind of guys, the same kind of guys who I've always been really attracted. Do it. He asked it in and walking into this place, where George Jones was playing on the Jew Box and people were drinking. Perhaps blue ribbon, like how my god this is in new york- I can do this in New York, so it just to me fell like home, but it also felt like I was such a story. After all, they wanted was stuffed around.
That says it was a predator for stories, what better placed to be than in a bar like that. I was out there looking for stuff to write about, because I had a very sheltered life Robertson. It uses the canadian guy, stop overweening everybody. Ok, we got it. Ok, now go ahead. More finders, more indulging in the drinking right was the aspect of that lifestyle that you were indulging in did you think you're in any, and I allowing any conscious level trying to gather your own story. You're, all marine biology, tat yeah. I was in love with the vision of me like a Lange this bar, like lion, tamer, piano and having you know these three hundred men at my command, hopefully I thought that was the balls, and I still I think that this year I was also very much taking notes in a legal, literally taking notes. So behind the bar I had a notebook, and I was writing down things that people are saying in the morning. When I woke up, I was sure
everything that how frequently would you date, the customers well married, a guy that I met There- s only first husband was accustomed for so that was definitely indulging in that aspect. Yeah boughs- and I was boy crazy guy in it, and it was it- was full of boys, so yeah yeah, yeah yeahs stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare expert annex birds is brought to you by man's scaped, they the number one in man's below the belt grooming. Monica it's a real challenge to groom you're testicles in pain. Us area has ie, you dont, want to anything you now between you and I can the gang listening and though I have cut my testicles out while shaving it's not desire We now know man scaped as an electric tremor called the lawn more to point out in a Scots scheme.
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Hank Williams Junior the third year- and I am a huge, outlaw country music fan. I am, I guess, I'm just curious what drew to doing that I missed, or why we do not want to write about Hank through his fascinating and the entire story of his life is fascinating, didn't know who he was till. He was sixteen dna. Now Y Y, you didn't even know that hang drawings, father of your hand, Junior out of wedlock or yeah, ok now and then all of a sudden he finds out who he is and then there's the sick, amazing kind of made for tv moment where he goes to Nashville any meets many pearl and she looks at him. She said Lord sign, your ghost, because he doesn't look like his father. He looks Exactly like is strikingly so sounds like em looks like him and then his carry that legacy and he's like this punk like punk kid who starts getting into old timer country, music and creating this weird punk, Billy
Hybrid, hybrid thing. I mean I don't even kept up with him, but certainly the time that I knew him. He was appeared to be actively trying to drink himself, to dash your words in the blood and all those Hank senior. He was like in his thirty's right yeah demand younger Amy twenties. I mean he definitely had absorbed this idea that that is actually what he had to be and what he had to do at any monstrously, talented and also very sweet about his father. Despite that fact, his father had never never took care financially or in any way. He was very defensive. Of his other people would say to him around. Others awesome your awesome, your father sucks assure shame, and he was constantly defending his father, which I thought was very very sweet and strange is a lovely Katy was very sensitive. Beautiful us out of our love and added such a ban on a key area of dad and on those lines are parties love them. You can help it. My mom says she never met of algorithm Mary,
ok, so that did mongers moment. Your career life is two dozen six separate love yep. Helen was on the best sellers less years, and years was at number one for over a year, and then it was on there. I think for like three years or something just as just sat there. Is it easy for you to absorb and take that in it's hard right, yeah. I know it's not easy, but I wouldn't say that it became a full blown crisis. I think something that could become a crisis for a person. I think it if it was my first book that would have been really traumatic and so grateful that it wasn't. I am grateful that my relationship with writing is- and I thank him who has the healthiest relationship. My life said the one constant and has been long before anyone ever heard of me. I loved it here I respected at I loved it any treated it with reverent. I think that was the kind of sound
issues that made it ok cause. I knew that I could continue to write something after a trail of it. Didn't have to ever. Do that again. It was really great that my first books sold like what four thousand com there's something because I had that is a standard wearing and say like it's actually finer write a book, the cells four thousand copies. I love that book right, but I still really like that book. So if, after this, I write books and they saw four thousand copies- that wasn't a problem before it doesn't need to be a problem now. So there is some kind of sense of perspective that I had that I think was really just based in respect for rating itself, but that said, if it was tricky to navigate, was puzzled to figure out how to navigate it without letting it undue me Anne, and so I think that, like when people ask, what's it like to have Julia Roberts play you in a movie, might my answer that I then I truly give is. I still have not digested that right and in fact I am not even going to try gods ground because I d
know how to digest that unhealthy way. I'll tell you why I even think about it is there's the modern of you ve ever watched american idol. They do it every season. They take these kids back to their home town. They have a parade in all of them sit on the back of a convertible sounds like they, our crying with like just exude like they are so in that moment that looks really joyful in even rapturous. I can. Do that I don't know that I should be striving do, but I do I do see them envious of it, nor when they have been the only win, the superbowl people are cheering and then that the quarterbacks crying and hugging all these people are my fuck. I want to feel that feeling That looks really intoxicating. Well, ok, this is gonna sound. I dont a high school Who gives a charge of how it's just going to tell you the truth that I enjoy creating the stuff
create so much and I've been amply and generously rewarded by the world for it, and I have yet to have a reward that feels nearly as good as what it feels like to do it and to make it, and so I feel like maybe that's also the foundation me, when I wrote the last page of repressive- and I remember I wasn't- I got up this artist residency and way of living that book in writing. That book. It took me from depression back to myself, so it was a salvation for me to do that and going on that journey in getting to go on that journey in getting to spend the or travelling around the world. Meeting these incredible fastening people studying all this stuff in learning has italian and learning how to meditated and falling in love and having all of these events, I'm getting to come in and try to synthesize that into a book and going out to the middle way, arming and being in a cabin alone. In writing it. All of that I loved the loved I loved being alone as much ever gregarious person as I am. I am never happier than when I'm alone with me
work, I love it. I love making something, and I love being in engage conversation with the book and the day that I finish reading last page of prey love. That's when I cry I'd like I'd won the Superbowl sat there alone in that studio, and I wept with gratitude like I have never felt. I was so happy and I've never cried cheers like that, since free pay love, because that was my peak moment- right gotten the thing out of your head successfully into this, and because I'm in animist and a pagan, and I believe that everything has spirit, and I believe that everything that I've ever created, I'm in relationship at so and I believe that this book is an relationship with me that it wanted to be rich it and I had a relationship, and we made this thing together in the mystery, and I talk to my books all the time
as I'm writing them, and I asked them what they want from me and how I can work with them and because they have a certain level of kind of witching match a pathway that order. When I was finished reading a book I remembered I'd gone into town and printed it had even read through yet that's the day. There was crying- and I put my hand on it, and I said you have given me everything and I am so grateful and as far as I'm concerned, you never have to do anything else and if you want to just sit on a shelf and be a book that nobody ever reads, I still owe you my life and I am so grateful. I love you so much and thank you think You thank you, thank you and that's the relationship I have without book. So the trophy moment for me was that I mean not to say that I was not aware super site to have it on the vessel has for three years and in TAT it made my life so much easier. Financially. Did sir much for me assure at but but yeah, that's the difference between an intrinsically motivated thing in an extrinsically motivated thing. In generally,
former results and self esteem and happiness in the latter does not achieve it. Here too the superbowl player that moment of them training. Is that moment it's that exists for now it is being filmed exam right at the end of the journey. Exactly yes well deserved to cry, then data twin deserve to cry because they did it and that's yelling, and thank you for that point anchor very right. Thank you. It's just that there weren't any cameras about around, but it looks like the moment as about the winning, but it's not it's about the completion of a really and you weren't together as a team in every ass theirs. I may we're always too for now you think, on any level you were initially drawn to writing because you could have total
control over the world. You in writing. You get to make people say what you have them to say. There is your God, you are our only God. I mean yeah, hell yeah, oh my god, why have searched yeah, but the reason I was wondering, if you might be the exception, is that the way you just talked about allowing the book to tell you what I want to be in that kind of pushing Poland communication openness, I'm more like listen! You fuckin square pay gear. It meant this round all like either You got. We gonna end this fucker at a hundred ages. That is standard where I do it. You know like not that for me that when I interviewed Tom waits for Jake you years ago, he said that they'll be one song that won't cooperate when he's making an album and he's like I will send everyone on the studio. I will pull down the shades I'll start.
Creamy arrested ever they always in the van we're all going on this. Taking your shit packed up if you go out in the next ten minutes, I like big, and I know that, whatever the bulk of said, all my characters are galley slaves, but am but yet there is for me, there's aid. There is a level of magic and to wither something that happened. Sometimes that I know is me that's coming to me through me. Do you just feels like it can only be magic, so it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, is progressing. to US men's yet at the same time. Well, I wish, but you do marriages, and then you have friend Re Elias Who was that we use best friends beyond shit? My my soul mate, my human. Ok. She got there. No sweat terminals, some pancreatic cancer. Ok,
in from the moment she was diagnosed, something shifted is the right way to say tat. I loved rare more than I have ever loved anyone or anything, and she was this like clamour, its lesbian, rock and roll of course use for junk. You know what man you gotta live attics and till they still have helped. You look or when I met her she'd been so refuse. Bitch had been a major speedboat heroin junk in lorries side in the eighties, from Detroit Port in Syria, moved Michigan as a kid choose. A hairdresser should a film because she was a writers she's, just the most dynamic eyes. I've. Never I mean I've met all sorts of people. I ve never met more charisma, she's, a weather system, common cannot hide and she what is vital to my life and we became best friends, but that word never even really worked. I always just called him my person. She is the most important person I've ever known. I could not do
without her here in the first phone call in any crisis. The first phone call with any thing great report, the safest. I have ever felt my life with when ever re. It was in the room. They just felt like she got it and if I don't know what to do, she will and she had this ended this quality and she's. Very tough and very street smart should lived intensity Tomkins where parking she'd been Rikers Island, sheep She lived every kind of bad ass light that there is, but you know, there's that adequate doesn't kill. You makes us stronger and with most people isn't true, what doesn't kill them, make them really fight over with Ray. It was actually true that what hadn't killed her had indeed made her stronger and had also made her kinder. She had this infinite capacity for mercy because she had truly been a horrible person when she got clean had to go beg so many people for forgiveness and many of them for gave her and she was so humbled. Her heart was so broken in the most beautiful way by the amount of forgiveness that she was on the receiving end of that. Her general policy was to withhold
see from nobody, while at the same time having immaculate boundaries. It's not like anybody could ever run, moreover, over she had issues. This incredible, powerful combination of very strong, very forceful you're, never gonna manipulator, and she would never throw anybody away. So this sense of safety in her presence, incredible near in and on the day that I found out that she had terminal pancreatic and liver cancer, massive tumors in Oliver organs and that she was gonna die. The bottom just follow my life. Like I said this is the one human being in the world. I cannot live without end within a couple weeks of that interest became abundantly clear to me that I had just never called that relationship by what it really was, which is this is the person who I love right. This is this is a person I'm in love with the minute. I knew that I just had to change life. Well, so we had this great moment in here drama here is one of my favorite human beings ever his mom, left his dad for a woman and because, while I may just be really clear, my mom I'll tell you she's, not gay
areas gaze hell her partner but see this fell in love with Mary. She doesn't like just like all women. She shrank back Love with mare, railways, gay and I was in love with rare yeah, so unique an interesting. I am I'm proud of you for being open enough. It didn't. you're, my that was never the issue in order. I like that was there were so many bigger fish to fry during that time than what's, people's sexual identity is right. You know I was just desperately alone with her, but again I'm saying it's. It's aspirational vat. Like Ireland, such a solidified compartment in my own head. I love many, my friends, I'm very touchy with my friends there. I don't know that it would be open to them. I was in love with one of my mail friends, you know, but you haven't been. Probably
you like you, then them, but you probably having been rapidly love with one. I question whether I have a in the oven or on my throttled that has just taken here and weekly about your weekly all day long I have, since I was twelve years old. I love him so much. I have a connection to him on a cellular level and we when we were kids whenever anything sexual, but I just I loved him in a way that is this very unique than I do wonder if I had different parameters in my brain, if I'd be like none, I like air nice have lived together for a life in adopt kid I just wonder what there's also there's also justice, hearing that I had a mean. I saw some vision. In the end it was just dreadful. I'm a mean everything there is seen was dreadful. Seeing a rail is world was dreadful like like it would be opposed to pocket lipstick landscape, in which a speed like how on earth- and I suppose, to live in this world without this person. But I also what
I saw. Was you know I knew I would be her caregiver mean I would I knew I was going to be the person to take care of a new. I can drop everything in my already had the second. That phone call came as like nothing else in the world matters, except taken care right, we're doing it s. What I saw was a vision of heard moment of death and I knew I would be there for that, and I was and- and I saw that, like a permanent no it, and I saw me holding her hand in her dying and her leaving this world, never having known what what she was to me. Never having done this love my life and me letting her go without her ever knowing that it just felt like mice, Tal was appalled by that vision. Yeah. That would be a tragedy. It was appalling, yeah, and so it is quite utterly like that it could not be allowed to happen yeah. No, I just couldn't be allowed to happen and and
the really the most of my way to that. I saw that then it was just now. Everything must change and Anne did instantly and that didn't happen. She died and I was holding her hand and she knew exactly how loved she was now. She knew exactly what she was to me too many other people too, by the way who are there. Other everyone's desire in a dream scenario is to be looking at the people. They love the most certainly when I think about. If I get to stare at my daughter's when that happens, and I feel like I will be so happy ungrateful yeah, you know like that, could make that experience to me, which is unimaginable self fulfilling and something I could die with complete gratitude. What you might not now is that it might be even more important for them
to be looking at you when you die, then to be looking at them, as you might not be conscious, but like there's, something about the need to be with the beloved at that moment is: is fairy primal and the promise that that I had made her air and and Ex wife and her ex girlfriend, we were all there was like Mitterrand's funeral. We will examine very nice, but she was such a man daddy. Of course, it was six eroded by hot blondes. What should I do assure you put about it? The promised that was made was in a wee. Wee will walk with you write to the edge of the river and we had to for our own hearts. It was as much for us as far as it was for her. It was essential that we do that, so the post apocalypse glanced, tat I had anticipated, would be rayless. World has not actually come to fruition, and I think it's because I shipped it the story so dramatically too, that I got to love her and that shit,
to know that love and that I'm really proud of us. I guess how proud of us that we did that my wife and I will have these horrific relations. I don't know what humans do this to themselves, but we'll talk about if something happened to her kids or whatever you know and my take on it, which I doubt I would be able to employ. I would refuse to disrespect what a beautiful experience since this had been by by measuring at all by the end like right now, my kids, if the buyer, I'm comes tomorrow, what a fuckin success the best six years of my life for years respectively, and I would refuse to measure by them last moment you know I'd. I would force myself to see it as a success story is a happy story which nourishing legacy, but I'm sure nearly impossible, but I just feel like that would be the most respectful way to them to go like
wow. What a fuckin gift I met you. I shared my life with you and I was Greek year due to your point. I didn't know the thing back yeah you knew how I felt about the whole right now, that's a big win. The ad is, and here I would not have missed a minute of it and it was Hariri and even in the worst of the horror of it, there is nowhere else in the world it could have been. It wasn't, like my I've run, but the thing the day that I haven't like my feet, led me to her up. I met with a suitcase of what I would need and I never left my heart is never laughed like. I slept on her couch that night and I just never let she just said: don't communists This isn't even I'm not even deciding this rather mandate, yeah like I'm just following instructions from the mothership. I have to be on your couch right and that's how
it's going to get. This is what we are doing. This is what we are doing now. This isn't even a decision will that's a tragic but such a beautiful story. I'm really happy for you that you are you had that. Need you followed that voice and needed all the things you have. No regrets it's a unique way to be living here. Ok tell me about your new book. so to totally shift gears. Invite this exhort you did you write it after she'd utter miles. You I own book right after she died. I let's relevant is, and I wrote it has an antidote to grief. It's called city of girls, it's enough about New York City showgirls. In the nineteen forties in the theater world, it's a book about promiscuous girls behaving with total reckless sexual, abandon its like a fool, my more sets written from the voice of a woman in her Ninetys as she's, remembering the forties and and the shit that she got into with these girls who she fell into when she was nineteen fees in nice girl from a nice family who gets kicked out of ass, her because she's board and doesn't study and her parents don't know what to do with
so they entered a New York City live with her aunt peg, who runs a theatre company in midtown, and she instantly falls in with this group of near city showgirls on end and becomes part of them and tries to be is as bad and reckless as they are gets into all kinds of trouble. I mean one of one of the reasons that I wanted to write it. I've always been fastened with near seeing the nineteen forty six as they can possibly glamorous era. I wanted to write about the Theer world. No wonder if show business and, like you know, I'm not peered that look the language of the clothes. I love that everything about that time. New York during the war, but I also have always wanted to write a novel about girls who are really reckless and promiscuous in their wives, are not destroyed by it, because that is it very difficult story defined in the annals of literature, because normally the wages of sin for females is usually death or exile from the community or ruination. Or if you managed to survive your promiscuity than like you had better, then settled down, get married, become a really good people really good girlishly.
Maybe a season of your life where you're allowed to be sexual, and then you got a pack it up and put it away, and I just one at my characters tool for her entire life, and I want to write about that and I want to read it surviving the consequences of a shitty decisions, because there are consequences in this novel to her reckless decisions that she experiences of them. They are weighty and she survives them because we do right. You know there's this idea that girls can't survive themselves somehow, but we actually can so I'm through with that's the story I wanted to talk. I got to talk to like a lot of old showgirls and answers telling me about when they were like that and how they got around it and the sex they had in the sense that they wanted in the sense that they regretted in the sense that they regretted not having enough, like those kind of conversations with women in their knives, was the awesome yeah I mean a lot of it is just Johnny and and double standards.
Obviously, in this novel the men behave just as badly as the women. The women are more severely punished, as always, Bill Clinton gets a presidential library. Monica Lewinsky becomes Its line right like it's like. We all know this kind of how goes, but it was also it also really. You know about the decked out test the Emerald environmental test so and she is a cartoonist. writers wrote fun home on which is amazing, amazing book, but she came up with something that you called the backdoor test, which is like a feminist test of. Male characters in movies, and it's a certain number of questions to the first question is: is there a woman in the film? Is there more than is it more than one woman in the film? Do they have names? Do they ever speak to each other, and do they speak to each other about anything other than the man in the movie? So there's four and you would be shocked how many movies I coming moves. I love that that task like rigours lost, dark like theirs is like movies that if there are like critical to my
I've. Where will we fails it? It's called the backdoor tested this novel and also is kind of like a total reversal of that, because it is fuckin stacked with characters yeah, it's so much about female relationships and friendships. I was actually realising that it's like well into, but maybe half way through the book before there are two men talking to each other in others there is male characters, but it is it's a book about women and want to different kinds of women. Theirs lesbians in it in theirs. Older women in it, and there is of very high tone british actress than it has very fancy and there's like low class Bronx born showgirls in it in there's all these different sort of female different kinds of female workers. So for me it was is a delight to just like just write a novelist stacked with women. I mean the most seen I've ever written ever is in this book in its the scene, where she loses her virginity and the showgirls they find out that she's Virginia now like what you know and elegant, we who are we going
to fix this, you know like I'm, gonna put their heads together and they create they set it up for her very loving way for her, like we're going to Skype exactly the right person can be somebody that you like, but it can be switched grotesque, Gabby somebody who's, gonna use, prick. Oceans like there's all this discussion among you know who there, when list and amend this very medical kind of clinical, diverging and- and it was I hadn't such like- writing the scene, because I believe most scenes that right of women losing virginity airy there very traumatic or very my mind unbelievably romantic. Yes, you know where it's either just absolute trauma or its impossibly pleasurable. It's not my or most of my experience at the first sign that, like you, would know your DNS effort, so that, like you, want to write this really, it's orchestrated, I women for women and it's completely clinical, is neither romantic nor traumatic and actually serve comments that was relief under it. Well,
it's been cellphone talking to you a nice talking to you. This is exactly all I ever wanted to rail. I could not be happier ok right. Well, your book, a sound awesome and I really to put a just little side. Don't I am always I talk about this Monica all the time she so sick of me. Talking about is, I always feel like. There's a faction in America always trying to hijack whatever movements happening back to a puritanical, shame chamber sex thing. I think there's some people that objective, and so I'm I'm very into a book. That is pro yet you know I started writing this before to too movement, and I didn't change a word of it during the ME to movement and I love them into movement, and I am grateful for it and it's not a bite, but it's an end and I always just want to remind everybody that as important and vital as female consent is it's not the only and final word of female sexuality is not just about consent. Cuz, I feel, like the full process of a content is vital, that what it implies is that women are just waiting around
The main content sake I take us from you were not and they'll say yes or no, and that is not the entire dialogue of sex between men and women, and there is also such a thing as female desire, and magnificent and beautiful, and when you see a woman who looks across the room and is more predator them pray and says, I want that it is something to behold. He knew- and this is a book that this sort of celebrating female desire, which I caught in a plot hours and that is not to take anything who now I am the current movement. You say, let's not forget about e mail desire. No thank you because, yes, the old paradigm is fucking, broken no question about it, guys must change. The whole system must change with that said, we have had a long tradition of males per. Do females females have the brake pedal mail said the gas pedal gonna change, all about which is great, but I need I do want to hear the voice at Saint guess. What also now gals you
how to get assertive and tell us what you want, because that's part of this as we evolve. I've never had to I should have been recently always had the seller like it's not just me. I've seen lots of stories of women pursuing man Jack. I've pursuing men a lot in my life, I'm saying they invented a guy s, amendable guess what time for girls ass guys to prom? That, like that's what I'm sorry about that, that's part of the evolution that has to happen is all this: the becomes much more even handed. Let's teach girls, you like a dude, ask him to coffee. You, like a dude, ask him to the dance boys, listen the fuck and ask women questions. We are both sides. Really need to evolve. Taxing like this back of euro that a lie seller you. I really hope, will do it again when you write another book speaking
and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soul, mate Mama got bad men She's got back and it seems to me reminds me of actual will memories where everything was ass fact jacked is the bright drew now and then, when I see her face, she fact Jack's me your way to that special plays and never faltered Do long, probably right, down and ground wow swede fag Jaeger. Why, along Sweden of a man, the gray, I didn't write it. Someone wrote it for me. I had almost say too much true dissing net song. I felt some of the food making its way nor
in my gee I'm glad you saying it you're going I sang a year ago. I don't. I could not comprehend what you now. This is a nightmare. You know what I was just about to say opposite of nightmare. For me, dream come true. We didn't get to do to fact checks. I hated back three three, that's right, a real time fact We miss three, I missed everybody. I missed everyone and am glad to be back me too, but you had a great trip right. There was a combo, yes, yes, yes, but what I said in the interval. I was at home in Michigan for medical issue for a friend, and talk about it. Yes, my best friend your weekly, we ask- and I went home, but I everyone's loves errand employees alive. He's very lonely. He's ok, you with us he's with Detroit yeah so guys come to Detroit is best for an errand weekly will be.
As a reason to come and alert. You bet your ass to make him cross that stage or something yeah yeah. I know how much fucking fun we had in the hospital room. This is a testament to your best. Does your child's best friend you can really be anywhere. We were for four days sitting in a hospital room. The watchin we watch a naked and afraid met. I loved it. We are checking out of the bonds, male and female. Ok, it's a p d programme. it's our normal cable, but you see bonds and generally the bonds or nice, and then we watch the where the giant document or I sent you a text of our favorite moment during the giant here at Africa, which is took a far yeah. I mean Jesus, says andrei- would take us forward mean gene is not Jean Cordell. People should know that mangy also
You got to hang out with Jean Cordell recently. How is so jealous cause. I love him so much use all over them. You thank you so much for near the me, and I have always really jealous and threatened by him and is not too big or do use nemesis he's my nemesis here and there we found ourselves at Improv show the ACE hotel to raise money for some Detroit Cause and I fell in love with, like you, dear the ads easy to do and I was nurse who don't know the backstory, its Eugene CORD Darrow, not Jean Cordell, that's the name. Dax gave him to the limits. Have those boys colony jobs here I was doing to find out that Mean Jean was from Michigan yeah mean Jean Jean Cordell in this case, not ranging from attacking manner. That's right! That's right! Yeah! I dont know where Jean the W W half an hour, There was from now didn't feel like a Detroit or to me now, but he talked about
under the giant. He said that he would, he took up. Andre would take a firm, clear, all the room. Then everyone just then talked about his farts for ten minutes. that document they dedicate so much time yeah it's one of those weird things: words like a kind of She had smelt one. I mean there clearly, the worst things. That's ever happy ale. Here everyone reminisce about it. You do feel o left at low formal. You feel farmer about their armour. I death part of missing. I don't have that I don't need a smell, has far no, let's talk about you crept though so then I got home in the new immediately hit the road. I did. I wanna trip with my own. s friend, all your Georgia pale yeah, my best friends and families who, as a whole, big group of us in a house- and it was so lovely it with special to have p
so just now, you that, while they know you more than anyone near near him in your posting things and I was getting jealous, knew were roar. Remember I responded to your story saying I really regret not hanging out the smart kids because they were all making this like really high quality brow I am for it was called a French. It was friends breakfast and everything began with an f r, so french toast for a ride by right leg. It was a strange, but we need a debate unless a friend those casserole for tat we were gonna, do a frozen drink, but we didn't and not being able to pull that sell. You, like my Gruber friends at home and I still adore them, but when we would get together, we would sleep intense and then we would have Miller high life for breakfast not we ok but were
older now so may back then, would probably weren't always so did good cool stuff in college. I lived with two girls and we would every Wednesday make for each other. All that's love and these dinners got extravagant the bar kept like rising and rising and rising one time Kelly made fortune cookies. From scratch? Scratch problem? Was she wrote fortunes in them so cute, but the depended it blood into the cookie under the problem, so we couldn't really either How do you know little ink? We might I ate a little bit of the edge to please her wrong. I was a debacle. What did the young fortune say silly stuff. She's very clever, did you.
The game. Growing Aubrey read your fortune than you always add in of course, so good tat. It has like they worsen every single fortune of ever read the ads caravan bed. Anyone try that, oh god in bed and as that doesnt work really also lets update everyone. We just had a really great trip: Wabi web Mamma and abandoned. We went to San Francisco. We will see at Washington, yells really farm so far, great weak and lots of life lots of tears lot of too many flights, but other than that really a great time. When will we finally can teleport places on an eye grave aren't way? I just cannot wait, listen kind, say one thing about be careful. You wish for conversion we'd like to teleport yeah, but I think it's kind of like cell phones
We want at all the convenience in the nearest slave to sort. Here's. What would really how our line shows? We be sitting fucking here until five p m in L a of its trade. We would just teleport the theatre. We wouldn't get em fine in the city. Will there be no adventure anymore Kazoo, the Mena like chicken? hotel. Gonna, be like all kind of food that you wouldn't hotels would go out of business. Every industry would collapse of teleport in Manhattan. Why is it so expensive live there? Won't, because that's where the jobs are that pay millions of dollars, so and if you could never in the middle of July, the whole Wyoming and then work in Manhattan. Everyone would do that there be no property value of
because everyone could live anywhere on a lake in assigning asked oral setting than work in a city and then go home at night me in a farm embryo do it. I don't even know if it's like a working so much as like I want to live in New York, so I can like have Emily's burger every night. What are you could have? Anyone need the lives down to dinner where we goin out unwritten. Imagine the fucking lie great again: Emily's burger, Kay, everyone in the world can go there Virginia how it reservations, half and also so real estate values will collapse. Zonia live in Manhattan choose to pay sixteen million dollars for a partner when they can just live wherever the hell. They want and still work in man, I walk around him in hand when they want to number two transportation: oil, big oil. Auto manufacturing. I mean you name it. Every industry almost would collapse will tell reporting to have new industries. Nor would it be a rough trim, vision on design. Someone did invent Albert.
Maybe they already have, they been definitely murdered by a syndicate of OPEC and whatever real estate board. There is, I think, Jake corralling that invented it because she knows about flew powder ends. Ways to tell poor and tat pausing, above all realize, was surely cracked the logic of the ep to she knows. Certainly, if you could tell a port I feel like, then you could time travel. Probably I don't know that seems very different. Actually, on car you make sense, assuming you're tell boarding over the internet do you wanna tell people about your new time travel plan. I would actually, while I was away in Michigan this like hit me like a ton of bricks. While but my hotel room in a previous
we have said I wanted to take a time machine back to nineteen forties, India meet your grandmother, any whew her yet make love to her. That's off the table. Now it occurred to me that would be even more pleasurable would be. To take my time machine go back to the set of legends of the fall kidnap, Brad, Pitt, a tryst, and at that time then him back to India. Have him all your grandma maiden? Just watch those two make love cause. Could you even imagine the power? I know your eggs more to most beautiful humans to everyone on planet earth engage in sexual Congress. Let's hope she becomes pregnant, because I can only imagine what the offspring of Brad Pitt in your grandma would look like chop. It would be that person may be posters everywhere. Like Chairman MAO all over the world is celebrating the beauty of this child. They could
does not the way it works always know such leads to be. If only we now not always know beautiful people don't always make beautiful children. In this case they I'm pretty. Certainly ok but you're right, you're, right, you're right, it doesn't always happen, and if you do that, you change the course of history. Has that my mom unborn, I wouldn't be born so you'd rather have that happen in combat me know. All this would mean is that your mom would be the most beautiful human being to ever live while she already is ok for the session anyway. No, that's not what it would mean, my mom. Is it made of Brad Pitt? yeah, I would be. Did I we'd all be very different: some Why in ruin? The courses of our lives, but in doing this now you went back your original plan. I wouldn't why wouldn't adultery?
Could you I wouldn't get pregnant racism? I'm I'm sterile he'd be sterile. Why I'm sterile? oh yeah, you be going back now, yea be stare ass. I have to go. Get younger deck Shepherd yeah. Annoying to send my foot My name is very weird yonder Dac shepherd. By the way, if I showed up to younger Dax Randal Shepherd hey, I got a time machine. I need you to hook up with this chick nineteen, in the eye would be. I wouldn't even have to finish the sentence. I'd be in that time, machine You think you would need some convincing if you went back to younger monarch and try to get her to get in your time. Machine code brought an errand be any images of horror. There were tears. Strange, were you Rugeley yourself, for I'll, think about it. Ok, you don't look much different than you are
in our view this day when you're eleven, you look very similar, still Nazis old soul, yeah they already had like wrinkles on. My aim is that what you're saying you said, you'd dark certain under attack settled. No, but I would be very sceptical because I dont know how I turned out. I could be misanthrope and trying to get my area like rule behaving self, to break some rules, so I need more info. You were so different. If I saw older me, step out of a time. Machine first thoughts would be. That's me second, that would be. Oh, my god I have my hair still thank This is why there was born. I was very much thing you were thinking that your whole life, I am so little, then I'll, be like a while I'm stronger when I'm older than I am now in better shape. That's great news. Exam Lucy Goosey like via, like the twenty four hours, pounded beers and never exercised. Ah, you know a gigolo giggly Bilbil
really how good on us, Canada, the Bicetre you? U, I we trust that persons that that person getting out of the time she would clearly be much more together than twenty for your many adolescent. Whatever future me sad see here, first action is like a static, absolute Lydia like harmonica. No, it's not this offer. My yourself absolutely would not know. Now You would know if the old version of you appear to you not be like always still my hair like how what is happening, and how did you get here absolute I would like both we hair. Now tell me, will now, would you what, let's take its current day, let's pretenders enough at the Door Commission's up, I step and at sixty eight, and I look better than I look right now, but I had my first thought is
all you ready. I thought it was all down hill for mere its uphill from here. What a great I kissing the desire first reaction absolutely then I'm like how'd you get here. You don't think you had four to evaluate your physical appearance. No now our soda. For now, I don't think you're a euro, valuing this appropriately. If I'd actual you walked in you would not first thing I would dues evaluate what I look like for sure. I would definitely leave, feel you immediately see how your friend Natchess held up over time. I know, while those are still open air, I'm glad or those broad at night, I have brought it now: dont zombie aerial, I don't know allowing shouldn't if anyone's trying to it's not good free good for your what circulation in here. I don't know why, but
teams, torturers, yeah, yeah, I'm not promoting it at all. Forget isolation, stirred love. I guess you don't have a clue if you want here fancies to stay point out. What leads I dont know because it requires to know what you're saying you're you're painting a pitcher of yours- of that I really started wondering if even care of your fancies are gonna be up. North so many things today that make me feel. Like you don't know me. I know you better than you know. You know what this is. My first reaction command way, who I am I'm occur- aims sixty nine year old. Monica way why you know you're, not yes, I am prove it. Ok, when Europe eleven years old, you thought about a young man, throwing up
and Irene found yourself around ok. Will you just listen to a pod cast? I think I don't believe that you're really me all. You need to get a blood test and I need some actual proof before I can go any further. With this conversation, pray this is she says you know what I never knew him leave. Going to argue with you bet. I me you would not say that it is me she would understand. Will she was usually men and believe you were you know the illegal a poor. She would have brought a blood test. My comments are what a compromise that would have her advice or idea. Raw backward rob knows me so much better than you know. Anyone who knows me work thrilling nicely back
Are you mad dog me your mean that tell me the main thing I said here mean when you time travel, I don't like it and we're not doing it anymore, I mean because about this display how it go to me. I am older. Monica then you'd say what I know. Are you really? Oh goodness, those suckers really elder congrats boy, look at you and take regrets the real time you you're not future you, but I don't think I'll hold up from being honest over there might adopt a very heavy, I would even say otherwise, but anyway see if you came in you looked better Ma Ma. Our reaction would not be like oh good, for you, I'd be like oh there's. Some science in the future all makes this all capable of looking young. You
yeah you and I will be asking about the science- and I wouldn't be like oh great job. We do need consider that so you just brought up something that could be really interesting. Okay, if fucking twenty nine year old, Dax walks and budgets really. Eighty year old Dax abandoned that Latvia tripping know that that science got like you're saying when I'm sixty o the science to appoint word, you can revert back to your twenty young, a still be wizen boy. It would be very confusing my point six, you take all this at face value someone's eighty, but but actually looks twenty nine there you the first thing I would just thinkers. Thank goodness, I look good yeah. I I just don't think I'll care about that when I get out. Maybe that's what it is. Ok, now how about this come in then I'm squeeze between.
Why set fertilizing. Why does your voice sounded gusting? Will I'm a good book your words, the ogre? Yes, then, will be like. Oh, my god, I fucked up right. Yes and like the ghost of Christmas, you yeah that's different. I believe that you are either very different. Five, you know what's easy. I would believe that more than the person who look good listen, I would believe that, like, oh, no, like something has fully our. Why but also more metabolism map the future, but I will be more concerned about like health, not it's that eggs. I would really be concerned about what had what happened that made me get to that point.
Good, I'm! Seventy I'm gonna Karen! I look like mountain. That's it! That's the dream, but I've been on Did you I care so much about what I look like you know I mean I do. I want to look good irregular did shallow in vain and pointless, but I've always been honest with you. I want to look good. No I'm you think about only look all the time. I don't think it's shall I think it's norm all, and I do that. I, of course, care about how I look but muzzle like we're stuck in our bodies and our faces like this is what we are working with and you can make some things look a little bit better in a little worse, but I dont know: what can we do? Well, I can't be too obsessed with things are nothing I can do right unless you sir go getting like some. You know cutting edge surgery, Non Guadalajara, something like Langston stench in surgery or somehow Kay
or dangerous. Seeing as we both agree, though, even though we we care about how we look in unit both that dont, like certain things about our face, we have both decided that we'd rather look like this, then potentially look, I know, go get a nose job and then often more are more aware of his, like your noses and look real, there will be a bigger fear of ours than to have the noses we have that we don't like that accurate yeah I mean I will get aiming anyone. Who's got plastics are no, no! No! No! No! I wouldn't because I could never guarantee that the outcome of it, if you a guarantee that I will do it oh yeah interest, if I could get ready, I let you make me so sad, but I'm I understand I totally understand now. I love your nose d like mine, yet you're right. I hate it when you like it
now, but I was with you now allows it to get a nose job right. But if you comrade that I dont like mine, but you like it, can you come round, then I like yours- and you know I am here for tat or quit- broke grope quid pro quo. Ok, Elisabeth Gilbert, Lizzie Gilbert, so you said in the biographies of these old tycoons. Banks were failing every two hours, so I don't think it was every two hours. I couldn't really get hourly rates on bank failure, but in the wake of the stock market crash of October, one thousand nine hundred and twenty nine They were growing increasingly anxious about the security their money, wealthy people were pulling their investment acids out of the economy. consumers, overall, our spending less and less money. Some six hundred and fifty banks failed in nineteen, twenty nine, the number would rise to more than thirteen hundred in the following year. Nineteen fifty banks in two years could laugh yeah, that's a couple a day for sure yeah.
Think how many people's lives were literally ruin. I mean ok, that's too big of a statement because, obviously you your life's not made or broken by money, but Oh, it is when you lose all your money and we have lost everything. I've saved their whole well disappears and a second line, but again it Eleven, zero saving, joint yeah welcome to my world. Most people on have savings most people on their everyday maritime research right. Are we gonna? Look it up? I think the average Americans in that light, I actually does Americans, but ok, but you can be in debt and I also have a raving sets the thing that we can't really will be able to really have a good answer on. This can only be met negative because people have like. They on school debt or their own. They owe to those are in their house, but they have a savings. Account is paying slowly yeah
Ok so anyway, so rose about nineteen. Thirty three gave you know these fireside chats and the first fireside chat. Roosevelt spoke on the bank crisis, explaining the logic behind his closing of all banks and stating that your government does not intend that the history of the past few years shall be repeated. We do not want a will. I have another epidemic of bank failures and so yeah he closed eminent reopened. It then he knows
cried the f B. I see some stance on savings opened her son, two thousand six survey said thirty. Five percent of all adults only have several hundred dollars in their savings. Thirty four percent have zero percent, and only fifteen percent have over ten thousand dollars fifty into thousands sex tourism. Sixteen out of tune, so over sixty percent of less than a thousand bucks saved. That's that's rough. Yet it is already a scary way to live scary. We're lucky you fuck. We are incredibly lucky. Ok, you said the Haiti, the earthquake in the day. many can Republic did not collapse. The same way same earthquake, Sir Morland yeah. So the key disparities between Haiti and Dominican Republic, which contribute to each country's ability to recover from natural and man made disasters. The subsequent CNN g
a graffiti base like where the fault lines are. Haiti lacks resources. To prepare for Natural disasters are no funds for disaster response or infrastructure improvements in watershed protection or irrigation programmes that can help prepare for hurricanes and storms. Why? it spread. Deforestation in Haiti is also lead to flooding dramatic rates of soil erosion. Back in nineteen sixty the two countries have the same gdp per capita according to the World Bank and now the dominican republic. Speedy per capita is about seven times that of Haiti, which remains the poorest country in the Western and the sphere all while in the crazily shared the same man, it is crazy,
is Waldorf parenting Scandinavian. You said you that it was gonna name in its German who also known as Steiner education, based on the educational philosophy of Rudolf Steiner, strives to develop people's intellectual, artistic and practical skills in a hole and holistic manner. The cultivation of pupils, imagination and creativity is a central focus. First Waldorf school opened and nineteen nineteen in Germany do you think it's possible that the same Waldorf invented that school and the Waldorf salad yeah? What b? I don't seem like a big, huge labour, many inter yeah. What is it? Sadly, in a Waldorf Duhamel, elders, salad, like maybe p, cans, com, berries and great? I would like to say a grave concerns. Defiling grades and real dark green lead,
I was gonna, say light Green led preserve now, not a frozen more like a romaine vulgar. There might be a dash of reserve rob he's, got the ingredients. This man, s lemon juice and this recipe manages lemon juice, apples, grapes, salary, walnuts. Unless specific about the latter, it sounds like a little bit like a chicken salad, electoral, a chicken salad child. Try, brother letters. Costa has a really good chickens, yeah that out it's like the best canned chicken breast. That's what we're making our chicken salad sandwiches! That's true! I want I gotta get back in.
The kitchen. You are always a meeting at some mean encouraged me. I think I'm gonna get back in the kid. I count William your summer of trash food. I think, oh, I told our Michigan for sure. I'm cooking autonomy, shit yeah when we re things it's all all day and hit the ground beef every mail. Ok, you mentioned, because she was much submitting short stories to these public patience, and you said that you did that any more time on an s e envelope. I know what you are talking about: the Essen Essay Ass E, yes, but it sounded like s e, aided now, ass. A sea is an envelope on which you have stuck to stamp and written your own name and address you. Send it to a purse. An organisation so that they can reply to you in it S. A s e is an abbreviation for self addressed stamped envelope.
gotta by all out of the camps in submitting. I now remember like sending your Razumihin paper was a thing yeah. I do. I had disbar anything abiding. My mom got it for me for Christmas. It was a list of every publisher in America. It was a big thick book. Fucking went through this thing, yeah by warm and addressed at all, my God printed on their short story and sent it off cover ladders. I applaud Elizabeth. I I had like being a six month, attempt at an angle, never getting published seven year. She did it yeah, it's impress. It is impressive. Its inspirational yachting stick with it. When I first met here- and I was just sending out emails to all those age- it like this genes all day long it I got it so desperate. I was
oh desperate daring, but you are des me, I knew are desperate for any thing here. You're like how do I get into this party, I don't know, I don't have an ancient for ever and my first agent fired me. I shall age when two so here's the of the letters I kept, my oh, no, I my Barbara Cameron, Cameron's MA. Oh you fired me. She did. I have a long letter. It's in my memories bogs. I know we kept mine too. I probably didn't he might. I was like I got to the throw this away and never linked about ever again. Is so embarrassing that we talked about your your trip Florida here I only nearing for its flexible. I don't know if we have here Kelly and I in high school,
after senior year, I think of high school, or maybe it was going into our senior year. During the summer we took a trip to O cow Florida Goin. at an inn in the industry and our Florida, her grandpa's brother Library uncle MIKE he had some connections yeah. He had some connection hooked up with some meetings on the sofa in Cuba and we went The first meeting was at this like a guy who basely made instructional like fish, videos, kind of and others a swamp be and on or off yet all is t now and we were grave folded. Talk to her yeah. We didn't learn about how to small mouth byles yeah, but the big big big meeting was with. this one, lady who cod.
Wish? I knew her title. Actually, let me see of Kelly knows you're good title scout or no, not even that now will genuinely serves the title to be met with her She was very nice to us and she was giving me tips. I was your age is welcome, pimp, I would say, Sixty writes about fifty. Does Europe you're! Eighteen in these out, you sixty says you re. Fifty, maybe, and she gave me some good advice moving into the industry- that I could play a lot of different ethnicities, icon, go out for black roles and should do that. I should maximize my opportunity for sure. I also remember she said that we should go to all the parties and make sure we went, but then we had the order soda water. So
I think that she was part of the Florida Film Commission programme. The first see who knows what that even means to be it's good to know that those employed, the state was telling you two people wanted me to fly black and attend all these like kind of vital Raby, pard, don't drunk barrier wits about yeah exactly and shoes come on to something. In our view, we felt good leaving now we had some good tips and we were ready for the big, similar work and they went to cook Dell Alba Mexican quote restaurant for a big meal for big Oliver. Tory meal, this is the cubes Trevor. I wish they had been making a documentary lunar why it was a great reflection of what actually happens out here, which is you can never again in front of anybody real for a long time. You like it was a good first
clearance, even though I think we were still, I think we thought we had like giving we really liked it felt like. Oh, that was productive step one. You dare Devil one shack, yes, by the way anytime, you just taking action, whether you're, even aware whether its use for distant be taking action towards a goal. You have always kind of feels good. It does Gilgad, that's true. Every belonging to get hung up on like whether its ultra effective at the end of the day, yeah just be active vehement. Are you feel it's not really about the results? He hates feel good about that. That's great now, upon further investigation, maybe not the greatest advice! You do during get parties any don't play black here. Squint great things are now almost you follow the Applause! anyhow, so self help books. Are they all or not? Ok, that there's a psychologist,
Sven Brink men who says no. We ve become obsessed with looking inwards and trying to achieve our ideals. Its action is less equipped to be a human on the outside the type that's connected to other people, and on top of that, we're supposed to be happy. All the time which turns out is a hard thing to do. In your constantly being told you can do better and more positive and more productive and then Lena, any about depression and anxiety and books about that. He said these are likely problems that are part of the human In addition, in many ways they are productive for us. It's rational to feel anxiety when there's something to fear is a rational to feel depressed when something awful, as happened to you or if you ve, been under a lot of pressure for a long time
Depression is organisms way of reacting withdrawing and perhaps metaphorically recharging the batteries, but now there's so much pressure in modern society to perform and be productive to be efficient that we don't have this time to recharge. We tend to pathologies, kinds of sadness or losses of energy. Europe's true but big magic is a good book. Do you and your people should remit Josie vessels, the blue book of Cox numbers. It's all relative. You now, but a moment you, my favorite line in all of the big book is we claim progress, not perfection, but so key you'll find this interesting. So was looking for the Vanity fair article about Germans, o the german characteristic. Yeah and I dont know I don't think I could find it, but I found another article on Vanity Fair, also about Germany. Maybe it's the same one, but I couldn't find that stuff you were talking about, but so
oh there's, an anthem. Apologists named Alan Dundee S set out to describe the german character through the stories at ordinary Germans like to tell one another Dundee specialise in folk lore and in german folklore, as he put it. One I'm an inordinate number of texts concerned with analogy analogy is the head shooting gear: it ok shit dirt A new or ass, no dog folk, songs, folk tales, proverbs riddles folks, beat all attest to the Germans, longstanding special interest in this area of human activity Dundee caused. if a stir for an anthropologist by tracking the single low national character trade into the most important moments in german history already. Are you know I love? I know you love me. Maybe it s are you german, and I was though disappoint. I've been telling myself that Ivan German. Until I twenty three to me, I know I'm predominantly like the Scottish, the English.
Why would a? Why? Did you wanna be German, so badly I'll? Tell you tell me, because I'm ass would neanderthals in the end was primarily lived them, the biggest numbers and gall, and in Germany, aha in the inner mingled, the that's how they got. They got absorbed by homo sapiens. Sapiently didn't go extinct, they we fuck them until we all became one species so, but they did much higher genetic rate of me in her tall ism there in Germany, in Eastern France, and so I just wanna, be neanderthal yeah. That's why I want to go to Germany. Well, it's interesting. I was in Homburg. I was like this is how you run a place like the city. Spotless. Everything runs on time. It is a swiss time, peace and mixed metaphors NEA and I was when it love in Lebanon in it so happens. That trip took us immediately over to Paris, and I ain't parasite now fuck order factor
fuck cleanliness, displaces, colorful, vibrant, theirs rhythm. I really split minding my majors drawn to order control cleanliness, but but when I have fought that my greatest moments in life are always when I'm being much more parisian and beautiful and sang it here, pay so the fiercely scatter logical, Martin Luther. I guess he said, I'm like ripe shit and the world is a gigantic asshole Luther. Whence I cut up under this whole thing is like a parity wholly vinyl. Now is it in the union? No, it is a very fair potent. Ok, Mozart's letters revealed a mind as dandies put it, whose quote indulgence in fecal imagery may be virtually unmatched. One of his favorite words was shithead
He apparently usage describe my only other people but himself as well. After the war, Hitler's doctors told you S intelligence officers, that their patient had devoted surprising energy to examining his own pcs, and there was pretty strong Evelyn that one of his favorite things to do with the women was to have them through Bonham Hitler had yeah for him. Sattler was so persuasive to Germans, Dandy suggested because he had share their quintessential trade, a public abhorrence of felt that masked a private session. The combination of clean and dirty clean, exterior, dirty interior or clean form and dirty content is very much a part of the german national character. Andrews lingering adds devil emissary. Mongolia yeah, I wouldn't have been any Germans at our listening stood guard or something, as I have a great affinity for German. I don't think it's a fence,
war, someone what's what's but assume for one saying: maybe the vast majority of detergents are nonetheless we here in the work we are saying is knowing what this no we're not into of clean exterior of filth, interior. I guess saying let the anthropology an essay on the Van diversity, when did Hank William Senior died with twenty nine. The back dal test is a measure of the representation of women in fiction it ass. Well, a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man there. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added about half of all thumbs meet these criteria. Passing review
and tat is not necessarily indicative of how well women are represented in any specific work. Rather, the test is used as an indicator for the active presence of women in the entire field of film another fiction and to call attention to gender inequality and fiction of bankers. Bloggers to that problem, a high thought you might yeah, I think there are, I think, the fields been dominated by male writers. We will write what they now and there much more privy to what men are saying and what women are saying and their riding women's staff there. Just now I have to write the women's characters. There's gonna be women in the movie. In so look I think, there's undoubtedly like a massage need to all of it or just a lack of many things, but also women tend to ripen female conversations when they write and males tender right male conversations,
I don't think one genders better or worse. Add. I think it's just the limit of empathy and the limits of your own pretty hard to be a woman. Getting better working in that industry, yeah yeah, that's the point is like no one's being represent it in front of an behind yeah, absolutely you're. The promises is not as many female creators and directors and all that stuff that are working. I dont think that they are trying to be. Oh yeah, I have no position on how many are trying or not. I am always aim that their under represented it right as writers, employed writers lesson now we're getting better slowly getting them, but certainly over the history of failed me as very male dominated, but I'm just saying, I'm not willing to go so far as to say that those men who wrote and hated way Nor are they do not like they write the same way. Women right about women them right about men, yeah was that everything
computer everything was so happy to be back happy to back. This is the icing on the cake. Yeah sure is I love you. I love you.