« Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard



In this episode of Experts on Expert, the Armchair Expert speaks with broadcast journalist and Dateline correspondent Keith Morrison about the difference between Canadian journalism and American journalism, his reluctance to appear self-aggrandizing and his most haunting experience as a journalist. Dax praises Keith's spectacular ability to craft language and Keith tells the story of how he cut off his thumb. The two discuss the impossible role of a step-parent, the correct way to evade spousal homicide and the duality of career ambition.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello where everybody I'm Dac shepherd I'm joined with many mouse manic appeared me I posted a photo of her you'll of her Rarely seen that before you heard this episode, but she looks just like minute, your mouse today and wearing a bow and my hair I'll read bow Red Island, my hair and you have to choose on that. Look like mice feet are used. Minute. Your mouse. You were high yields or something tat. These are not the shoes at a many mouse. What were you look out like many miles a day it so fun? It's been a blast to be around you for a few hours a move. If anyone who knows my wife and I well know that we are head over heels in love and obsessed with Keith Morrison. We came, to love him on day line, which we watch religiously. We just can't get enough for those martyr mysteries. We like it dark many. I know that you do in fact
Our early friendship was forged Liz, acute story. Monica. I can add Lana for three and a half, years ago, yeah! We had dvr all these episodes of dateline, but I prefer the ones that are if Morrison handles the heavy lifting share. and so you had gone through all of the episodes and labelled what they were about who hosted on the whole thing you had a whole breakdown and not see is tied all the way you would have done with your friends. Episodes when you are younger, yeah really brought me back to that is nice. That might have been the first, I'm out just really blown away with your due diligence yeah. There was a way a step above and beyond. Just have that little pet of paper. has achieved. It was great when they give you at the he wanted and you did in a big big way, Dateline there.
Twenty seven season is going to debut September. Twenty Eightth at ten p M Eastern on NBC, he's Morrison. So I guess, but before we get to keep Morrison our guess, we have a very exciting development here. At eighty headquarters, which is Somebody bottom left handed mug want. I mean it for real you guys somebody purchased a left handed being left in love. We go so excited here, and we decided to wear. Kind of peace. Is a ship would accept two thousand for a mug start as a joke, but because this wonderful woman, China bought this mug he's up and why In turn, we decided couple things donate that money to a worthy cause, and we're gonna call China to sell a break her purchase. And maybe we'll get a thing going so other you know, philanthropic people will know it's really gonna go somewhere good in you'll. Talk to us,
without further ado this, our conversation with China and then, when that concludes, will be into Keith Morrison, hi, it's Actually my way, like me, how am I gonna hear there You sure XO shown a year. The first person to have bought a left handed mug and have you received the I I have, and I happened to be left handed oh, were of a better breed. Aren't we finally and his eyes? I appreciate that you say that bag found provocative yeah, it's a little egotist, a goal to say it, but, let's be honest, work were the chosen. That might be honest if I can trail as I just can't you affirming S.
and what would you do up in Bellingham now that I just had the upward yup? You may be surprised that I am, I I'm an I may hr Thank you, too, for a health system only I like it even more for nature per year. Loose vanity is good. I go. Oh they get it. We live in. The real links are human yeah you're on my team melody. What did I do wrong? A more open? Do it as it is called the later? It is totally her. I've done it for a long time. For both the cursing and these are well. We are going to pay your generosity forward and working to donate the money that is spent on your left handed coffee mug to a chair. Now. Is there a charity that you love, that we don't feel like it too reelect like a powder file or something is urging her to you on controversy, chair it in a political
clarity that Europe, let alone not the Why would I enjoy more fond without once more illegal? Oh my God sends funds ivy. I'm super passionate about foremost this, particularly folks, where there's a lot of homeless, stop at rest bet, but one that are specifically dealing with families, because homeless, homelessness and work of the immigration issue a lot at length. There what families member might respite housing and though there is a local sheep there, the local non private Lydia, like that deals with specifically keeping families together, especially if monitored at, have a conviction and they can't get ensue regular anyway. I do think, however, that sounds good. That's gonna were powerful, arose and allay here. Is they d get families housing?
The lady is Libya's way. What is life that really is ways they already nodded way partner agency and they are not covered by the technical term nor are they associated with any specific turning up religious shirt and good luck France has the well we're goin to then pay pay forward? Your humongous generosity we also Ebro We can imagine the elation that happened. It was like a bomb went off because I see that our learns furs. My sister Carly receive the orders and she just started spasmodically taxing us, some about a left handed mug and then we were then call him. He cried there and then I, why was I not in every one was just when we were satisfied at the air? It
We accept that that makes me happy. I am going to sound like a gusher or obviously as unlike us, whereby, if I bought a two thousand dollar mug and hope It would take your word disparity. I believe that do you I'm not that you would my eye. I have told so many people about this part gas shares near my friends. like Mariette already Euro one? May I dragged street team. I like
I would like to say that not enough my eye, I think it is so it is so important. I mean just your ability to express strong, passionate opinions on controversial topic with our drawing blood and maintaining an end going there. I think that I think people got scared to engage in an discourse with each other. We just think there's no, where this can end well, I knew best love really freely to each other and your gas, which I also think really really important. This makes was so happy and we're gonna come up to Seattle. We very much hope that you do our show and then we will make sure to point you out and embarrass you and then bring you up to obey recruiting allies in the crowd to make my
signs huh, huh, ok, fantastic! Well, I think I speak for both of us when we say we love you. I love you. Thank you. so generous, and definitely see you in real life in Seattle now what they thought okay, I m. In again you have my permission to extract my dna and make a clone of me. You know if you You meet someone who does cloning is there for the taking of waiting for the results of your twenty grand niece. I will outline yet. No, we love, you will love you. therein. I love you guys age ugly, Why am I here very, very flattered to announce that one of my absolute idols Keith
I sent a sitting in the attic of the armchair expert. Welcome to our podcast. I feel like I'm in a strange dream. But you re about his hearing. tender that their timber, I'm waiting to be murdered by Monica Battle that she is he's in over a cheaper, so she probably had met. I sat up and men minutes. I have not been able to everyone this was a previous guess, because I've not ever written a tribute to a previous harassing newsletter button, you you don't even know that you are aware of this, but the daylight, folks, knowing I was such a huge fan of yours when they had their twenty fifth year celebrated Every guy celebrated yes somewhere there. If I am a time anyway, yes decades? They asked if I would write a tribute to you and I did and it was published in a magazine- and I doubt you ve ever heard it well. I I didn't. I didn't hear it, but I saw ass. I was I mean I didn't know. We are your louder.
where mammal your fuckin lulli yeah really get in here. I read that I don't know whether shuddered old man said those nice I'm I'm defiling and use that but anyways in an honest embarrass you, but that's just the price of doing this packets, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna now read my tribute to you just because I think it's a really good introduction to to you and why I love you so much a guy this. This is the tribute. My love for Keith Morrison started with the obvious things that attract most everyone to him his appearance, style his vocal acrobatics, the poetry behind his story going, but somewhere around my hundredth episode, whose subtler more nuanced qualities began to surface Isabel we believe on almost any surface, a barbed wire fire wind his eyes, his high Thirteen brand of empathy and his bought on high preparing any environment with the perfect leather jacket.
he is that unique blend of scrappy, hustler and honed professional intoxicating mix, to say the least, drunk when you wrote that nobody, I feel like a channel, do just what the last line to say the least doesn't sound. A little Kay EM This is a wonderful reality, as I don't think there could be more audit orally pleasing gas to have on you could just virtually just read The passages values really positive, Gabriel EM, but but look let's bring about Up to speed in case you ve missed any any of these things. Christen IRA, I obsessed with you.
As I say I am I right, but what a wonderful person we and I spent a day with her. As you know, she interviewed rash interview may favour this from little thing yeah, but I was so impressed with what are really bright perspective. just sort of person. She is yes, she is hyper town, it boy, it's not easy to live with her I give you were gone. I am going to say that's what I thought after the faint, but no I didn't I once it's like it. revenge player in the NBA, and then your roommate was Michael Jordan. It's just a little bit of its a bit of a reminder day. I have the gap and talent level. Oh, but She loves you beyond belief and in fact, I regularly list her get out of jail, free car. You make that list of five, and I think that makes you uncomfortable because your happily married man, but suffice to say that it could be a grand no cheese, Sir she's, all well she's does all that
It does not change, but we did come to know you on Dateline, which we became obsessed with a few years ago, and then immediately. We were just completely drawn to your segments. in your hunting avoid smuggler s, but this is. This is sincere evaluation. From my perspective, of what makes you so great of at that job give us the usual suspects having I did, but I promise forget much. It's good it's I'm cabin space spacey is wiser, so say, and there's this group of other guys right right in one of the guy he's been easy. O Dell Toro the younger right It's nothing wrong! There's nothing there for anybody to do any other some would have been completely forgettable right. He has no lines. So he chooses to kind of study in mumble his way. Through this thing and all of a sudden he's the most compelling character in this great ensemble, he made its a mountain out of nothing your job
very easily just be exposition moving the story along in yet you're such a huge component of why it's enjoyable, it's it's it's! So you, Neil KIDS, the weirdest, Moran eternally item. I say the sincerely well, I do crash very nice. you. Did you go into that job? Obviously, you had a lot of experience in broadcasting prior to that, and I am extremely old. Now. I know it's true. I haven't painted events in a long time. Irrelevant What's the last bit of manual labor, you did g, well tying your shoes at you. Let me do that. I know. Is that most upon shoe, I manage to avoid what are they I noticed when you are leaving that you're at the back of your outfit was velcro. It was just a one peace that you switched on such a bad idea. Actually action.
Work on that some so manual labor be done any recently. That way, you know not late. We know that no unanimity, kind of Hobbes, gardening or anything Woodworking y know I used to do that by I loved woodworking years ago and I build things all kinds of digital kids die houses when they were little, they had DA has for me yeah and them or a cabinet are some suddenly there and then one day I was my wife is a four went for a decade or so of being an interior desire. So and whatever first labour. First client was Sir Nancy grown she's a soap opera Crispin had have wonderfully successful career for the past twenty five. Thirty is a right and a thousand episodes
at least thirty yeah she done lot and them so anyway, she was having your parents over a week or so later and she had to get this job done and involved. Because of the time I guess everybody Wanna put up crown moulding alright houses and dress muddle that, and so I was cutting some of this crowd. Moulding for her bed and because the guy who is doing the job was slow and leaves them help. I have the expertise and I had the chop saw yeah so I went over there and I was carrying away now doing crown. Moulding is very difficult because It comes at an angle and it doesn't all come out of the same angle. You have to figure out a way to cut it, and there is a method that I didn't really learn proper guy, Eureka. Here's the inciting incident right. I just now notice here, you'll enjoy corkscrewed the thumb I put it.
under this off and it came. Ass. They came off in a kind of a corkscrew pattern. Oh, my goodness, has those complicated and No, I said What who's, your actual reacted. You remember it was that there were if this is the main reason was to produce o o so's user was there. She was working in Missouri, there's a lot of blood dry, quite a bit of blood in the bedroom of this about it all over the sea ran who cares about or the bed. So we have to have a car and went to the hospital, and this doctor and like eighteen hours later hid reattached it doesnt band writer, look probably like somebody eyes,
You had better than a dog. I am like a monkey now it will. I can't tell anything from this distant Alex Norm, anomaly forum, the way some of it was really globally. Monica you got your little Alex totally. I would never have thought twice. Real and Azeri observe you don't look they're gonna, go! Oh no riot doesn't look like it's been through an oh, no experiment, but for fur listen, who are not geographically incline where you're from Canada and You grew up aware, says: Actually you ve done. You know this yes, I grew up in Scotch one as young and say it quickly and scheduling. Ok, sketch one eastern Canadians call it a scotch wan and dry. The scratch Romanians, crazy, as they say this catchword, it's your Oregon, Oregon, exactly our hunger them through the people who live there, see you now talking down here.
you that expression. Ah and my group in one of those places it was a little bit. Is it that merely little mercosur? Is that made it's right now, another country, it's it's! It's flatters apparent calculates about money, that you that your Montana North Dakota Border, if you went straight up from that border, you'd, get to Saskatoon, ok, Saskatoon an the population when you were a kid there? What is that as a kid it was, I you know- maybe a hundred and fifty hardened Seventy thousand, some like a soda goods. I was I used to think That is the sort of the Paris of the prairies whenever going through it and bridges, of course you would call the heiress. areas, I can see you introducing a gruesome murder therein right now. But what did your folks do? My dad was a preacher, a minister or no kidding. Yes, and I can about Europe and then at the
I am increasingly progressive protestant Church United Church were covered with. They don't have a really it's Maybe he took the most term progressive churches progressing at their word. That's it. I guess arising area the most progressive. Churchill, you're saying I don't kill gay people. Basically, every man I can't let you have a gay person as you're moderate of the church of the now that. Will that's Devlin Progressive, gay, female, a gay black female Rebecca. Minors are clear at right, so if you put all those reedy, progressive churches other men. You made him a little more progressive, thus now Oh I'll call the United Church of Canada, and so was it. It was a minister there, but the point was, I guess her: whether there was a boy is that this is a pointless showed that ministerial burden off of utopia no fucking point to any of this
it's just an enhanced. the question: what if I was in a room hanging out with keep Morrison admin and action, I need to talk about myself and it's really kind of you don't like it. You tell me that I should tell her. I should I shut out you got just before we started. You said you just generally not comfortable, be mass. The questions you well, you know it seems odd to talk about yourself. You say something else: it yeah, but don't you think that some that's accomplished a lot like you have that you could be of service to people that you could share with with people the journey that that the time that it was may be hard that you found some tactic tool to overcome and that that something people could adopt. You have a value to pass on to. You could does the arc of a story there that you ve got it write them yourself, ideal moratoria,
my words moms capacity bilingualism is she was the choir earlier in the organist. So it was a team to see how the consequence was it. All US kids went to church every Sunday and went to the Sunday School and taught Sunday School and when I went to church twice morning in my a while. You were you like it as much as I did, which was I hated it or did you you know? It was my father was such a wonderful man that it was impossible to I'll get it was carrier Rio, it's just the ceding. If nothing else, it's uncomfortable right, those pews there made a full year. Why would I did? I know I've ever feelingly they're they're, making people basically reprint repent, just by sitting it's like a we're going around area that of losing its by design. Oh, I don't know
It would be done challenging to make those things comfortable, Mcdonald's disfigured about some of them do with a sort of fuels affair, bypassing the artwork yet Khazars as sort of it. In its involve. Yes, that's what I'm saying you gotta, earn it or something air, or maybe it is also. It could be to stave off people falling asleep because it could get boring at times and if you're too comfortable, maybe could be it's like a talk, show they keep it. They keep at it, like fifty eight degrees right that audience awake, Zulus people right, it's warm. I understand why they do ok, so Mommy's is running the choir and she's the organist. Yes, and I was The choir, oh, you were yes, and so you had to do all these things in it in the end. It was incredibly beneficial because These are all things that are extremely valuable viola in my lab work. Healer headed,
speak correctly, how to speak. The crowds of people, because you know a western up would be allowed to read the lesson or something like that or you know, teach a bunch of kids about something so you're learning those skills and you're learning how to sing? And my mother used to have this expression, which was the cadences everything are you the way you in motor the way you a musical way of singing and talking, I will put people in here we'll get people hoping that you succeed as you performed for them, because their into it, the ruling for you I mean I was the notion she anything in there arose runs off. Imagine another benefit that that applied later in life was that your also dealing the cross section of a community you're, not sigh loading, whatever Socio economic bracket right he's, my tracking sure yeah. I I interrupt people all
No, I have very badly complain about unto her all the time, just so excited to talk to people well armed and very excited to doctors. Yes, oh you, you have Carte Blanche in Europe as much as possible yeah. But your point is a very good one, because you know that probably seventy five percent of people in just talking about that situation in those little churches and canadian prairies that seventy five percent of the people about dont, really agree with his progressive theology progressive the early last year. They wish you wouldn't do that yeah. They have a much more than before, were inclined to want to have a kind of a hard and fast ruled rules based system that doesn't change. Yeah yeah we're more were very comfortable in black and white rise. There that's
comforting for some reason, so you say things with the realization. Some people are going to like what you are about to say so, you're a little bit careful with their feelings, because if they don't like what you say, they're just going to turn you on right. Yes, you don't italianate the people you're trying to connect with right. So that's a skill, and can you Do you have a comfortable lifestyle, as the minister in and in organist was life comfortable guys were no, actually it and the air. In my father's case it was probably right choice as much as anything else, but years many years now, since he died, just talk about what a great person he was, but he really was, and he he lived the message, aha you live a spartan live harden life he was never in. I think they are more yuri retirement
He would have made the equivalent of less than the minimum wage is entire career while and raise falcons ended that make you covered wealth. I particularly like I think I am Tropic issue However, I cannot hide out you're comfortable life, man yeah. I could be something the rustle at the I completely coveted it, so I don't feel guilty about it, but also not you know. I talk about this all the time. It's It also not the fantasy. I had either so when you come You run the risk of this fantasy. I whipped up at my head of being Hum Ricky, shorter and silver spoons ditches. I dont have train in my house. No, you Brian see that he was a little kid me at a locomotive, Ass. I noise, I sinacherib, rounded Abu as you're talking at my mind, drifted knows thinking about this lovely you next week
notably browser train. Yes, I think so, but so when you told your father that you want they pursue journalism. Did that feel like a worldly and our? I wouldn't do that tell him that I don't know what they all I want to do, and I was terrible. didn't. I never did my homework. I was I didn't study ever and so you can escape through forbear to time and again even through high school. I was that because of attention deficit issues, or do you think you had a learning disability when nobody talks about those things Uncas member, I am super old saying at the time was just you know. I fidgeted night didn't pay attention and ok I Didn'T- and I M so, but my teachers were, enough to let me graduate from high school with a high enough averaged go to college, which I immediately screwed up in every imaginable way.
By being interested in all the extracurricular stuff? Not they you gonna, go, get drunken get laid, but the more like, ok now. I'm gonna change the world and joint political club and I'm gonna be in debates and things like that, and I dont you know them. You? Don't study for the political science, exam and you're right, some sort of bs about the marvelous philosophies that you don't have a clue So so you don't do great in high school. you you graduate! Do you mind if I turn I don't mind also it's gonna, be how do you do that? All the time you know we too, before we started reviews ever the sound personal says old erodes homestead, often yeah. They also yeah. I forget to turn I found every time it rings in the Middle Yasser it's gotta be very uncomfortable and rings in your in the middle of a very emotional part of an interview right.
yeah that that is a bit of opined saying so but but you graduate from college, I'm assuming you. No! No! No! No! I wonder now I was the stories voluptuous and Vienna. A guy cut. His one get in journalism and independent Well, you know dead now, a days you get into the same way do here, which is you go to some fancy journalism school as it at the post, read about it, you're a basic arts to rear what have they call and but then I think that was maybe you're only one or two journalism, schools of any note anywhere in North America and with the Arab there are becoming popular, so people were so go to them. I, however, having been unceremoniously evicted, told if you decide to become mature,
maybe apply, come back, but not for a while. Our interest in this feels very canadian. Yes, oh well, I do love you, you have to leave, but we do. I love you. I were rooting for use various shit out and combat right that exactly there, so my ever kindly Father said. Well, you know we have this programme in the church where you can go often spend a summer filling in four ministers were taking their holidays in small towns, little farming town, very small, because we want a screw up too much yeah and them I did that for for a summer you did you spread the gas war again, some years, all twenty and I'd be looking out of this crowd of farmers of new no sort of the earth people. We lived full lives and many of them were in their sixtys and Seventys or something
They ve been around and I Hadn'T- and I dare say always things I felt were heretical- may be falling asleep. But you know what another can. I just say that that that makes a tremendous amount of balls to be wanting and get up in, but basically inform elder people that there is a leap of faith. those well, but I realized ever so foolish it and only valid and re boiler setting anyway, also, but but I first official we're time it yourself and radius. I went out anyway, so, whereas so my first term official function as this student minister for the summer was a funeral for an eighty year old farmer who suddenly died and left his wife of close to sixty years as a widow and farm. Nobody knew what was going to happen to you,
was it the neighbors would come round and help, but anyway there's a fence. There was I heavy. This is I haven't you? I had to do the funeral and so I met with the widow all you know, twenty years of man and was trying to figure out how to be sympathetic and comfort her in her situation and asked her what she wanted me to do, and she started asking me for advice and tell him leaning on my shoulder and why, It was a moment where you boy, if you, if you don't know what you're talking about you better go figure it out before you start messy yeah! The stakes are high in their real right. The asses is a real human. To arm chair. If you dare experts, an expert is brought to you by stitch fix Monica.
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that stronger than that, I'm gonna go right at a right. Now we can, we can zigzag. I have to imagine what medicine I'll. Give you an example so that there was this popular show, love line. It was a radio show and doktor drew in Adam Corolla Warehouse of it in fourteen years. I went on it to promote a movie, ok and then you start taking calls from real life people write and These are real problems. You noses on tourism has got syphilis rode over. The things were that they had, and I I had a really hard time on navigating b, funny doing what I'm there to do, which is to be funding entertaining and then also reminding myself regularly. Is a real human being on the other. End of this phone call who's panicked about this thing and that's real real real, but I actually have two as a mental exercise force myself to go. This is real. This is We hope this is real. You do you ever get caught up in the production of your show in your managing a lot of things you produce these things.
lighting and there's the time There is already on his. You ever find, so having due to bring yourself naturally keep Keith. This is a real person. Don't forget that! Well, I'm I'm really really lucky in the respective that this program is so well organized and highly functioning having practiced for a long time doing this, I sometimes I tell people we're just going to sit here and talk. I don't know what the hell People are doing around us, sightings dovetail, they say already ready, but they never really ready and they want twitter cameras out what they do and yeah I don't and I dont know what they're in other producers are all younger and way smarter than me. And there I will not adding their their college there there, they all graduated from Colombia, with masters in something or at least masters, send the reedy. You know good at what they do and it allows me then I have to think about any of that stuff,
Well, that's only enter into a story, and I've just got this sort of background all the people there and I can sit down across from them like you're doing today and talk You know what you are. You know ye you're you're, not actually just free to shoot the shit with these. All these harmful. Lately long as you want my guy get it out of them in an hour and then it's two hours and every two hours isn't going up. Then you just if, if you see the the possibility that this person is gonna contribute significantly to the story, just one mind, you want you. Madame, but you don't do not feel that in your brain, where you're, like your juggling an objective which again you that you have a job to do there whether you have the luxury of taking three hours or for hours or whatever you. You definitely have a mission sure that he, oh you ve.
yeah yeah answers on so so one side of your brain is engaged right. Immense kind of timor- tactical, ah, you know us produce brain and that the other side, your brain, is your emotional brain rear, literally talking to someone who may be lost a child or spouse or something right in them. He has his wondering if it, if it ever, You can feel your brain going. Ok, click out of that mode, click back into this mode! Now I really I mean: did it start that way or you did a revolver did over the walls and and and again it's it's because you ve got really. I don't have to worry about all that stuff right, that's pretty nice! Ok, back to college. You, you leave, ecology, you you, you bury someone, you officiate a burial which is also a lot of pressure for young guy and
and then you end up writing right that your first foray into journalism is you you right for a paper that it was no. I didn't write for the paper. I was a gopher for the editor of the paper who was a neighbour of mine and that's. It was in his how you fall into thing so hide finish. This student minister gave I didn't know what they ought to do with myself or on the money you have just made. I did have an old car. You know those old Volvo five. Forty four, that's slope back De Leon Brittan. Bees, sixteen, that sort of cheapest version does, are cool. They are now how they weren't them so one of those and and and I ran most of the time and but my neighbour up the street was the editor of the local newspaper and he did DR for what
release version and really what my job was to get the mail to taking the work so on and them, but that it was an introduction to the business but the thing that made the is so the reason I again I had nothing to do with guinea and rod casting. I was my only responsibility was to pick up his own kind of grumpy guy and take him to work. He would have a bag with him. One was in the back. It was a bottle of blue and a bottle of wonder some spirit and wonderful, This is great better than he was an old fashioned editor. What he would do as he would, somebody would write a story and he would or Galaxy shut and he forgot about opened a little pieces. Rearrange it so the structure work better
blue at altogether on another piece of paper and it so it is. We did have a genius for that yeah and he was the mired guy, really good old fashioned newspaperman, but he reached the retirement age of the paper right around the time, I was driving them and had to go to a and took a job. As the new director of a radio station o car in Saskatoon Sunni obviously needs to be transported. There is well, he did, and so that's really when I started, so an end the they did. Did he discover that you had a knack for something? As now I just our I just thought boy. I could do this. Listen get people read the news on the radio and it sounds kind of cool yo and I went to see the guy who is running the radio station and he said I have you ever been to journalism school and I said no one here, good wooden hive, yeah, oh really, that's right! So
was good and, and the editor would send me down a magistrate court and there you again run into the real stories where people are have done. Some they had on a related, a bad thing, and they are appearing before this pretty grumpy judge in the morning and he's in a given them a punishment of some kind of still small enough time at stuck up. for it, and the kind of media were a rock n roll radio station ETA, six or seven men newspaper man. While I am no women love all day, so no monocles raised me nice, but follow pilots are so I'm gonna A fast word you end up getting a very legit job is. Is a reporter right and in the thing that, if I'm right, that kind of propels you Disan notoriety in a claim is that you end up covering the Yom Kippur WAR is that I asked
yeah right. I got there that seventy three seventy three of the vessel, Three, I got this two thirds of the way through the same so they had anything prepped you for that. Had you been on location like that in the event of a war zone had not a war zone, I mean I've done. My international reporting had been in Detroit destroy them on the table, seventy one, whether a river a year when the river God I act is an athlete. This time was. I was sent on my not North Dakota to do something or other meeting in London. Party instead appear to you, but
So we're worry, Yonder Memoriam Pretoria. So where did you go? Syria, Egypt or Israel? You know by that point. It was the the Israelis head kind of resumed the upper hand. They turn the tide back. Eight. Six of this wars, yeah yeah, later Mary anyway. So we positioned ourselves in TEL Aviv and regular reporting from the israeli side and they drive us up. One day too, the Golan Heights, where there are still battles, noise on and then the next day we go down too to the egyptian front, which events which pretty soon turned into negotiations at a place called kilometer one on one may be. There was a tent with israeli generals and egyptian generals, no arguing it out over where the demarcation line should be and what
Rules of the game should be in your time, firefight broke out, and maybe a mile or so from tat, and you saw that was actually a thing that really sticks in my memory and gives you hope for the method, humanity, mankind. These two generals are too high ranking officers. One is really want. Egyptian came tearing out of the town and hopped into a jeep together at roared off and stop that firefight oh really about. While wouldn't you witnessed it, get down rush of like holy shit, I'm actually in a boar I've only read about this are seen. I gotta I'm scared, shitless, but also I mean I don't know I some people are really good at covering a complex and wars. I am not one of them.
We're gonna be bore you interviewing. Are you talking to Israelis or just every eye was area it did. It was easier to Israelis Cacena. We were everything because of where we were position, everything that we do, everything I wrote and every picture we tend to talk, had to pass through the israeli sensor before we could send it back to Canada, and that listen. There is normally wasn't too hard, but you ve, you couldn't ready. There are some things. I didn't want you to talk about right, I'm entails out of school. It's pretty normal with a country in the conflict. Doesn't want you to all stories in the other side, but that's a unique place and they all you have to do. All we had to do was sir. You now leave our hotel roman, walk to three blocks and talking to hold different group of people who have an entirely different point of view about the way things are we spend a lot of time during our time there was the Palestinians and and- and
learning about their side of the story and that you know that there are two sides to every story and there's no it that say that both the hope and the agony of humankind- will no matter what your position is. You lose sight of the fact that at the very least there's humans on both sides right right, Zog is on your like, oh my god, this guy's a dad. Always he is a wedding ring a blank point blank and when they like you for dinner and you spend an evening was familiar, you talked of a whole family. And you see what warm wonderful people there and I'm not not to start with that situation, any situation, any conflict yeah you ve heard people demonized for months or years, even as somehow deficient or bad. people are run by people are something he ran. Then you get to know them personally in your realise, as all horse shit yeah these its people in there and there,
so any I get worked up about that gave to me. War is not exciting. War is a dismal failure of the simple quality of being human, I cannot agree more with you. It is ironic that I've been twice as I am generally a big flaming liberal. This anti war, but I am also very pro lead. The guy's over there, no I'm thinking about them so those are weird It use a mixed bag of oceans warm there as I look at the manpower the ingenuity, look at the expense of a body blow shit up all tire leave some advice its end. Then these poor sons of bitches come home for Africa, using now expressions assessment, only the most positive and embracing what tat is poor, geyser and women come home. and they have to deal with the aftermath of it and reinstate themselves into society that doesn't give a shit what they were doing over there.
Oh yeah, and and and and they don't get the services they need. That's, I think, pretty much agreed by everybody. They are this huge service for their nation and are really not appreciated and air time there is one of these complex from Second World war, not first we're. or Vienna Korea Afghan ass. They come home and they end they. You have a lost generation of people who just have to struggle now, yeah, And also, I remember learning this anew in Vietnam. History class in college, which I never had thought of, was the guys world war, two uneasy at all lobbies. In both my grandparents were in order to the amount of com
combat actually saw versus the time they or their versus the Vietnam WAR is like tenfold rights of the guys in numerous seen way, more actual combat and then not only that the guys in world WAR two they took a boat home right, so they're leaving the Philippines or wherever they were based, and they ve got a three weeks with their friends, daddy, compressed talk about what they saw. The guys Vietnam gotta knowledge on the shoulder they run of flight ten hours later they were landing in San Francisco. Seen people signed, saying, you're a baby killer. There was no decompression there is. You know it was a twenty four hours from Rice Patty too, to J F K said the sound of helicopters. I called in the military ass. I thought that's how I should note is hovering over, but yeah that that's that's a lot is too but just citing thought about that three week, decompression faintly around that's true,
yeah. No, no, and is additional thing. I what we did a story about this sort of the moral cost of war to the people who actually are have to do. The fighting doubly business don't be part and in the Second World WAR the likelihood that the person who was armed and looking an enemy in the face. What actually pull the trigger? Yes, listen, very low, and in May twenty twenty five percent yeah they wanted up. It got up to fifty percent of Vietnam yeah it's up at eighty five. Ninety percent now because of the deliberate training training that they get make us open. I read a great book written by a either Annapolis or the other military academy. What does the less waste by your house, psychologists, professor, whose also of that in writing wrote a book called on killing. Yes, very
that was, the book did, did and form the basis of our story, ok great, in what they talk about in their which was its really, and it has a broader thing to think about this as a human being, which is what would happen was the two to really fastening things. Is we think of brains is being wired for fight flight or fight me we're either gonna kill someone organ or flee, but it that underestimate the two other categories which our posture in met. So if you look at battles between animals in nature, you'll find that ninety percent of the time a bare raises up on its back hind legs. It growled the other one powers right and then that bear they don't fight. So that's that's a builtin mechanism to resolve that conflict without either flight or fight in humans. Have that too sure yes, in Trench warfare world, where one there seen a guy run at them with a gun, the guns firing, became a loud noise. The your brain selling, you that's posturing,
so I'm going to submit I'm going to go steal, I'm going to put my head down and then I'll be safe right. That's it that's very hardwired, I'm not going to fire my gun I just want to submit also when you're, a pressure raises above or whatever your heart rate above one sixty all your thinking shifts from your frontal lobe brick to your mid brain to your reptilian brain and you're. No longer you can't make decisions like you and I would normally make decisions your Disan Instinct mouth. So, yes, they train guys out of that. They train guys to act while their thinking shifting to mid brain and they ve been really effective at it. And it's crazy ok, so you cover the Yom Kippur were and you in some awards and you get attention and you get a pretty good job off of that. It's going well at that point, right, you're, you're, gainfully employed to say the least. Yes, yes, hi In the end, you, I got a job with a network I was, I was hacked they
there's a it was a kind of a sit on a hard church bench for a little while until we decide whether or not you're a serious person, then and and then we might give you a really good job, so it was I am. I was harbour the network, but as the overnight writer to write the news for them, for morning show ok, so I'd come at eleven o clock at night and it felt I was getting pretty good at toning down a year, complex story to a fifteen minute, tell yeah the anchor would read. And and then after a few months I took over today as the morning news anchor on the on the canadian morning show, and then there was a weatherman at a station in Vancouver. In addition to being a reporter? Was so I got and cover the harbours and labour disputes during the day and in the evening come back and
I'll, be the happy whether guy time the weather is gonna saw coming. Primarily your job and printing also say this is what their sparks ready. Certainly there The only rainy went. When do you cite you is it when you set your sites on America, I ever USA, you never did he deserved this. Always among many people working in canadian television, there's the while Peter turning to a state and boy look out. He did an air and more safer and whole, but of people, it's the big show right, lichens hours, exactly em, but with me as if just like a again falling into stuff I was had. I was at the time I moved over to the sea. We see the mother corporation, these kind of Government funded, that's your equivalent of the BBC. Yes, and it was in those days it was it was the Canadian they show so is doing it. I was
Cole hosting in and reporting foreign, and every evening current affairs show called the journal which the junior colorist. I should say that the main co host was David from mother, Barbara. In David from concerning commented, I dont arrest. He was he was the guy who he was credited was coming up with the line, the axis of evil for George W Bush. Billy and he was. He was kind of a punching bag for liberal media as a as a conservative. now he's these added. Anyway he's, always gotta public intellectual in America, but at the time I was a high school student in Toronto and his mother, Barbara, was a canadian Icon and the main host of this program called the journal, and I was barbers life cutaway, I used to like to say: oh yeah Anyway, I was working on that China is doing a story for its end.
The producer of the story and I was sitting in a coffee shop in a hotel and into this is obvious. Prince our arms, and I was, called the phone at the hotel and that's like that. you're, worried children die proverb. Well, yeah I mean you know they would have had to contact somebody Althea Office at Sea receive when they would serve to know where I was standing in. My direct guy wasn't Orton so into the phone, and it was somebody who were one economic cannot be with. The general manager of the television station in LOS Angeles, Cayambi Sea, and so this weird thing happened about me want me to come down and see if it was it was. It was like that
very day that producer- and I had been saying you know, sir- we did its great working seriously. I think we're just enough we could be. We could be lifers here yeah at the time I was very happy very comforting. Oh, I was married to this wonderful woman who had been territory those per second reading. We will. I was gonna, bring that up children like crazy and just having a wonderful time yet. Your first wife worked with the first Trudeau, my current and future and only then that's a fantastic. so she is still yeah. I guess I didn't Maroni. Refugees are only she's, my own back at work. I had it was at first anyway moving. I guess she word for that. The first trudeau in he was. He was a big hero right in Canada. He was yes, they heard of this treaty. Romania. The linear and- and he
He was a lightning rod, figure and canadian politics about it in a way if people were asked, who is the most I mean there is Trudeau, appear somewhere and then the rest of them kind of I for the second, but is it, it is fair to say he was like the J F K of of tuna. I think so, but he was he was in power. Long time is in part. Fifty meters bore about once for a year and a back in again, but he was divisive as well as being loved, so he loved and hated but more love than here than and thus his electoral success, but he was without doubt the most brilliant personal men, whose company out ever spent any time and whenever I interviewed him he would at which wasn't very often because one didn't get in.
very often, but it was like gained in easy awe and he would delight in in a kind of dancing around no worries and yeah, just you feel like you're, soaking, wet and and feeling quite ridiculous by the time, really, while you were saying that I was paying very close attention, but I was also doing the Caliph Edison, my head of why I went online. Much now I was I was, I can repeat, must have it back to you. I think your soaking wet with perspiration s knee Outfoxed, you button. I think the reason I said your first wife as I am also aware of the fact that your Matthew, Perry Step Father saw- and I guess I assumed that you married a woman later who had ordinary earth reduced rates. we have the legal marriage for ok. The son who lives in Toronto, is my somewhat by first wife and an Matthew is Suzanne son with the
papers doesnt. How old is he when you came into the pitcher he was tarnish? Tenant share. Ok can always nine ten or eleven, but in there somewhere. I am now I'm gonna get person on you don't have to answer, but I stated a woman with a child, and I fell in love with that child and that's when a government we'll get it for me, because it was easy for me to stay out of the fold when I was not in love with this kid once I was in love with this kid. I very much wanted this kid to turn out well and what I found self somebody in in places, I probably should not have. It was hard for me I love someone not wanna help guide them as well. I was that it is. That is what I would. I realizing that moment have had many step that it's a much fuckin harder job than I give you credit for you ve had and he stopped. Yes, I have found it uses toy Aurora. It's totally one. Eighty you the way it should be. Today I mean you'd be fastened
imprisoned interview, and yet here I am in a way he hasn't wealth and believe me, I is you- can organise I now every once in a while, you let others a muddle of as it does a little dribbled adherence. Yes, I found it gave me a new respect for mean a step farther and I recognise the very hard role to take on cost. You your gun, you invariably falling over this kid in then you want. You want to guide him as a sure right was that hard for you? Well here's the thing about Matthew. He is a he's pretty and is a remarkable guy, he's kind of a force of nature right and and we had, I think, a relationship that what you'd call respectful I'll write you he, because he he wasn't gonna, be guy
right- he made it clear that you have the role. I want you to feel right and he had no not step dad's, but other men had been in his life and have tried to mould him in ways. You won't be moulded the already good it indicating that. No that's not for me yeah, but he's he is he's extremely bright ease extreme and he knows where he wants to go right and when somebody is that way, you kind of your kind of want to okay, I'm going to stand back and watch this kid and see how he does It was your approach is my last at that whose my current step at, whose bend my stepped out for twenty four years or sign He was the only one that term did a right for me, which was he did it tried to guide me he's, like other speakers,
Are you want to chat cool? If not, I'm not. You know and that's exactly what I happen to need and then again, even though I witness that I found it almost impossible to take that approach parenting is a very interesting failures. Yeah. You never know when you do the right thing or not right, and you get a couple dozen. Kids right, a lotta cubes, thirty, two business. It's only gives you for six six altogether yeah, and I assume you learn a lot as you're going right. I have too little kids and were certainly learning our yeah learning how much you never ever. Gonna learn hi I'm in here it requires a certain resignation right there. You know you're, not gonna, do this perfectly and that's the yes, rising, guess, rule number one you understand you never gonna do a perfectly so, but you have still have to every day. Is a challenge to get as close to perfected? You can ya think
So, as you tell your story, you weren't sending your resume out. Everyone in LOS Angeles, you're sitting at a bar and the phone rang, and I invite you to LOS Angeles yeah and you decide and you have to tell your wife. Well it you know things come along it if something comes along when you're ready for that to happen, like I have just said to this colleague minor, I'm prepared to be I figure, but in fact e g telling growing areas we're getting on. So I was never really ambitious person you were or were not. I was ok great and I had spent some years trying very hard to get the next level up in canadian television yeah and it was one thing after Another- going up going up going up and then you hit a ceiling and at the sea BC, I'd gone over their partly to do this show which
really enjoyed working on, which was very satisfying in many ways, but also I have my eye on the brass ring, which was the national anchor job, which I knew we all knew was coming up very soon, because the current anchor was aging and going to retirement, going retiring had indicated so and they were actively trying to. They were looking at her heart, be the one Can I just point out no, what a job you ve chosen, where there's quite literally one the job of AL you wanna Vienna of Pure Middle, is yeah, so that if they d, the call from the guy in L, a sort of coincided with the I've never said this. Anybody in public before blue sky coincided with the recognition of the debt that what was said to be by people who know that it did that person on the top of the pyramid was not can be me. After all,
right. So then I'm thinkin! Ok! Now what now? Where do you go? Well? What do you do? and suddenly this guy says come on ads raid during early in California. It's that carry you been in the Chicago Symphony, not early in some sort of symphonic production, now come on some rock and roll. It was it that different I mean culturally Ella is away in its different than every other place. and this is this- is nineteen, eighty, nine, eighty and eighty five algae so. Why are eighty five or come but culturally different? Yes, but that wasn't a big thing it was in the culture of the business was completely different, that people's understanding of what news was Completely different a lot of people in work and delivering the product had a different idea, one because it had some
where and salesmanship to it or some further hunches a performance be, and then the content is all different, but it did that that old expression of the Lees leads very much a part of local television, in LOS Angeles, do those helicopter, chases guards on the railways and an end you go, live on the drop of a hat to cover some thing that happened now does not as yet no skilfully is now, because the tools are available and are better, but In other words, we were attracted by every shiny object but at the same time the polar opposite of Canada, just kind of law right yeah, but at the same time they were closing. The bureau's NBC was causing bureaus all around the world to save money and can be used to have a bureau in Sacramento where they had political
coverage coming out of the state cap? It all about it? Yet I closed that and you are so we stopped doing an until him, but television generally, we stopped covering the sort of issues that of governance. and about how society out a function- so yeah wasn't! Very sexy wasn't said about gridlock in the senator, something right right. You talk about what's gonna. allow you to win the sweeps period and that's what you put on the news and if you don't and you're an idiot and one and you have a job right shortly, right How did you adapt to the l? A lifestyle, though, did you at any point? Go fuck and I did it Look at this is great sons out all the time. I am now
that's a no! No! I mean I've got the Canadian. Do you know you can't make him stop feeling guilty. I think that this point so that should really be living. My warm climate like this is it boy gonna be some wrong with it. He has its do good. To be true. Is this? Is this the waiting room for how's sin city gotcha right boy? I'm I'm glad. I have a lot of issues, but I've never had a rustle with the decadence like out of it. wrestles very hard understand you, you tat Thou, but you a wrestling for a short period of case, Oh you're, in for a while, and then you missed him horns doughnuts setting ninety two, you move back up to camp and well. You know that famous Canadian Leonard Cohen, who
What is one line in one of his songs is always kind of resonated with me. It's I'm sentimental. If you know what I mean, I love the country. I just can't stand the scene. and there was something of that. Is I really re missed my canadian US, So anyway, every year or so somebody would call up and say- and I want to come back and we got some thing that you might want to do and in every time a talk to one of my canadian friends. It say what are you doing down there mom back in other things, you happening and street got a mile longer very so threaten world right. Young freedom has been idle winding down. Again, man has done. I underline as world regards ahead, so anyway, the brass ring was, at the other network, was sort of opening
dangled in front of me in the suggestion was I go into the morning, show there for a few years and a couple years, because the person doing the NASH, news was probably gonna be retiring had indicated. Probably this is his last contract really having value Raymond. Is your wife kicking and screaming about all these moves? Are she she's up for all she? She was. She was less enthusiastic about this. I think she thought I was going through a selfish, phase a rush, and I think I honestly you used to believe you. More but mere mortals, the outgoing and enjoy so then the guy changed his mind and found myself, I'm street wonder well, It was. Was it impacted by this? This thing that I read about, I wonder if this is true, but you were about you were going to In our view the prime minister and the evening, all you,
keenly said. What's his name earlier in the day, and he could answer, is that true or night I had a relationship of sorts with that private relations? I've known him since I did the first story about him for national television and kind of back in eighty, two or three when he was made a run to the leadership of the conservative party hahaha. I spend some time with him and we we jousted and- and I did a story about him which he did really like very much time ain't, but his response to it was to offer my wife a job. The dangerous, and so there is a sort of bad enforce them in and a a jockey kind of relationship, at least as eyes,
right right here between the two of you he's a great guy Brian Maroni in you never spend a dull are unhappy moment in Brain Moroni. Company is a sweet guy with a huge heart, etc. so anyway, he was leaving the stage he was retiring as the leader of the cost. The party and Prime Minister of the country. Men We were in a car with a convention where his successor was being chosen and it was a night before he was going to do his last speech and and and go off into the you live in palm beach. Florida and right and we were having among the show, so I and I am used ways it we got all what's his name on the show tomorrow. Ah good jog, I stand by their job is area, and I sign off on very well laid his name's. Why didn't like that? What MRS Eyes is in a heap, my daddy there, and so here?
an old and in those of you who flew about it, but that was that I was not knives r r anything around now. Where do it? Was some change his mind about that so that's a spurious conclusion at at best that that had any role in you Bein, ultimately, relief of your duties, nay interfere conspiracy theories, deacons in all kinds of things, I'm not. Unfortunately, so that happens, and then do you move back to. Sandro on your own. Where did you get an opportunity? Ears, a thing? and one of the reasons I am happy to be working for NBC. Now, as I always have been when I was doing the news, it can be sea and said to somebody at the network, you know I'm not sure this is for me really they said. Well. What are you try reporting for the four nightly
This was Tom Broker an end from today Show- and I said sure so I started doing that as well as the angry, and I love that I am so that anyone anywhere that was happening from LOS Angeles. But in the years before I return to Canada's awhile. Then, when I caught, I call them up after this thing happened. I said you know. Can I come back and they and I was the very next morning I was doing a story for deadline Ah, that's amazing Redonda Pittsburgh to do a story about a woman running a shop where she fixed transmissions or something you can remain. now, I'm still in this day line for one. Second, your copy that you write should I wish I would have printed out a thing that First, it will often when you said when you control a story, I got nothin made sense in an all.
Like in so I may come fake ones in a curling criminal write em now, but I think I will watching one and as I can start on a shot of the moon- and I said Andrea under a hot moon on a cold winners night, you'll really mix of eel mix. Temperatures sees it, but you you I must leave. You write those right. You write your own coffee at yes,. began good. Thank you, but no truth in advertising. The older. Get more. I rely on this crack staffing, sure they and they can challenge so they can writing your voice. They will produce a script which also Marilla shut down under pressure to get now yet don't pull your goal glue out in your bourbon yeah, but no things have reached the stage now right I go in and I ll write a new top.
oh mess around with their. You know I'll change the language, but but the structure is somebody else's guinea, and I just I work around the edges and and make Ok and you have fun doing that or is that the home? Why have job wonderful time- love doing here, you're, very good writer. That's very nice, but all that doesn't surprise because it sounds like your basic door or foot in the door was that you were your condensing these stories into a very good fifteen minutes, be all right, that's kind of where you started shining, so it, although catering, you think about it, a really complicated story that would be we do these two hour pieces about an inner. Maybe they rang his thing Friday night there's something yeah through our Rwanda and an end to ours. Isn't enough time you could do all serious. As you know, you know about these kinds of things
and dwell on the little moments when you think of of taking a super super complicated thing like the state of world peace and in between or relations between two countries, all they all the millions and millions of little things that go into making up the reason for announcements being made, and then what you hear about is a fifteen second piece of copies. Some guy reads over the news: yeah, so that wasn't a good thing that its chance. Somewhat with the internet, but now worse, in other words, on setting the idea, but it still into over that plus years you ve been there. You ve covered such a range of different stories, not just obviously murders, and what not by me you ve, covered em. but you know Columbine. You ve covered a child soldiers in Africa. I ve covered soon. Armies have.
have any of those stories changed your life of any of them. The kind of major, stock of things or or or the momentum impacted you can permanently. Yes, a lot of them. Have I mean I mean that's salami boy. You should have seen that place bond the archway in Indonesia, city. If I dont know, half a million people and a wave comes in one day and in Ten minutes it had killed, turned fifty thousand out, I'm leaving, I knew is there and it just like it was at the deadliest natural disaster in modern times, dont be close, if not fifty o crazy and then we arrive a day or two later and also giving aftershocks. Only six and a half to seven range
There were other bodies everywhere, where their bodies everywhere in the smell is pervasive and hangs in the air and their collecting bodies from rubble and put you in the back of dumb trucks and taking them off to aim to mask ray and burning them all barriers and in it looked for all the world like you were standing in as I imagine it must have been standing at the epicenter of Hiroshima bomb rye. Is everything flattened little bits of things sticking up here and there, but, and then people who had survived this thing in in us and stunned silence all bent over a kind of looking around if they could discover anything to remind them of what used to be there or or members of their family were just gone like that, oh my god, they never see again. He s dismay should realise how kind of small we all are lucky
we are not to have gone through such a thing in the year. very bleak thing to witness live man, and you know what got to me, though, that other countries would rushed into help. And we would send their ships and their aeroplanes in their tracks and they're trying to do the right thing and I think all the people in those countries felt they were doing arising as well as the people who are actually doing in this is no slam on any of charter. I'm just talking about through my eyes when I see the trucks of AIDS I was going through, and many of them were in a gift from the people of the. U S, gift from the people of an insight. Fuck off just bring this rather die than herself on the back as you do it s or or as the guy from the United Nations was saying to me as were flying, leaving their gratefully.
Getting out of their flying back to were a place, it wasn't destroyed the acid. Yet he said you know these. These people they think they can send over green or they can send over clothing over, can send over some product that they already export and that its gonna help somehow were. These are the these. The survivors of this are sophisticated people. What they need is a twenty dollar bill. Chinese somebody had come in hand them a lot of money and they can put their own lives by together. Just fine right. interesting, yeah yeah, that's that's some. There was some sorts You ve covered these. These really profound events in there Certainly in the last twenty some years, you ve had to have been completely embarrassing your covering other stories. Have there been any where you're like what the fuck Am I doing here or you mega coloreds, like what you know where we're done this year?
is there any that you're just like this is really embarrassing that I'm here doing this, oh and I mean it you. Don't I heard anyone snellings bed, he could just be your own personal embarrassment, where I feel silly it the ash. In answer to your question, every story could be potentially wonderful story. An adult ladder. I could be a tiny thick, it doesn't matter. What about IRAN had really doesn't it's in the stories, never about what a seems to be about it's always about, as as my colleague Dennis Murphy used to say it's never about the murder. It's always about. marriage, ah or by the EU, in other words its all thee, it's all the ancillary staff that leads from one place to another place. It makes a thing interesting, whether you're as there's a narrative to everything you do and life. If you re get up now and go over to your a bathroom with the door on men do their bit
A process where you're thinking about what you're gonna do you taken action to launch this process? Then what is it? Then? You, you you, you know you Baxter you're the execution state, and then there is the code of your story when you're back in your chair, a kind of contemplating what you ve done unless what every story. About really ass. Yet My life seems to be back in the chair contemplating and only at that moment, recognising, although errors- I maybe you have an incredible sensing or about yourself, that I admire cause, I'm very thin skinned. In our view, it should speak out more detail money for them. You really! You really do. I hope that you recognise, like my obsession with Eu Christians, is very genuine. It's that there's no bullshit. also, I think it's hysterical. You lean on everything, that's also in the inner in the game. That is key Morrison's one of the ingredients
sweet leather jackets. You weren't, we wear the same. She is. I just took a picture of your urim inordinately hip. I'm gonna say that, but you have it. You have an actual method, dear madness, on this leaning, which is you hate knowing stand upset when I read reviews awkward to eat more me, yes, and I guess I just the gay people, what what what normal is one says when the reporter stands in front of a camera and emotion for awhile and ended in sometimes you have to do that. I mean a lot of a material is on cable television. How does nothing to cover the you'll live and you're just bringing people up to date on things, of course, yet certain front of a camera talk to the works, if you're doing a story where its weight you telling the whole story about about a person about a family, about a life about other things that happened in certain places where them
useful that the night was chosen as a scare you made a better is the the corresponding the person telling you. The story is not important thing. The important thing is the story so Ivan My complaint was always well. You know. I really want you to do a stand up in the relevant why There is no need for it. Doesn't it doesn't help the story right and and often it's it's a method of self aggrandizement that distance unseemly, yeah Yeah, I'm gonna put you throw are humility workshop. I think we can do. We could ratcheted up to solar rather or maybe even ratcheted down
but having seen so many episodes, Dateline one can't help but start fearing that their love one will merge them at some point right. This is a natural assumption to measure lodge enough. Doesnt have a most marriages, yes, and so I wanted to add that off at the pass. I want now to take that option off the table for her, so I preemptively searched on her phone. How to get away with murdering my husband and and so if you were ever murdered, somebody would go cap reform. We would know immediately. She did at right as I've really kind of neutered. That's it you do. You think that was a pretty clever waiting avoid. Modern which she found out about it. So but she's Filberts Dylan, her search history, FBI, agent, still find that she is probably the most famous evade husband. Invasive tactic that's been made in the last couple of years,
I will not use the approach where I'm just nice and don't deserve to be killed. That would be too simple. You lived a long time now, yes, you're the one eye and you watched, a lot of vibrations of Media culture all developments day, huge technological developments right. Could you pin point something that you think is the most significant or that you're amazed that happen in your lifetime probably hard? But where would the yard
yeah I suppose. But what is it is? Maybe the saying that I don't know who deserve Mcluhan ask say: where were creatures of our tools? They change us suddenly changed them. So we had a certain kind of culture and society and in the age before the internet came along and now it's a different culture and society and we are different creatures, yeah wired differently. We behave differently in different situations. We have different kinds: leaders who have you know who were were regurgitating ideas. We all thought were buried seventy years ago, but here they come because we had not because- and I think it's because-
as of the fact that these new tools have created different ways of being human being and that's the huge headlines yeah but it, but it is impressive that you ve navigated, a lot of cultural changes in the workplace that everything that you You, ve, managed, never go well. There's no longer makes sense to me son, I'm happy now. You know, I think it's a testament to your flexibility, which is a pretty admirable quality that you have continued the beef Odin Functional it within it ever of all being system. I think that becomes overwhelming for people drive out. Thank you you took the compliment is good is the last time and that of Russia. Orson, it's it's it. A truly is a fan boy honour for me to have you come into the attic, and I really thanks. Thank you for crossing.
Town and rainy day. Thank you and an adventure for wearing the cover roles in the streets, I did not know if you are going to challenge me, a rustling or whatever I desire to have all my basis covered in the place. Thank you. now my favorite part of the show the back checks with my soul, made Monica bad men, you won't take a cleansing breath before mister. Well, I don't feel like you expunge any dirtiness, because I don't hear anything. I argue that I opened my mouth, so I didn't do it you dead. Could you you do on where you cannot now dig yet dirty think so. Ok, don't worry, I went out, a lot of negativity? You did and toxicity. Ok s face
he d C age, see Kay that's an honour of miniature mouse glove out Maybe it's your mouse clubhouse come inside and by some facts the manager miles rob how's inside all too ok. Toodles doing many facts or Toodles Peter O toodles. First, I want to tell a story o broke. I love lorries for Alice physical. It didn't come up in the episode, but I wonder if it's come up on the spot ass before for Christmas. A few years ago, Christina night came together to make her epic present for you in where, We took little baby delta. She was so little back then I begged hamburger ass. You couldn't even talks, you could say too
Three words yeah and any outwit started me. Has it one day she was at work with their Warner brothers and she was led by bossing people around well, I guess you'd I've been around. We went into the sound stage where we were going record, the score in mixed the movie and she walked in length. Such a boss, and I was walking behind her and she was really walking around like she on the place and the laggards thinking. What if there was a baby director like that, was right, a good use a once in a lifetime baby director yet, and that was a joke. I would say all the time she was a baby. their actor. You guys got together. We, together. We made a movie about baby director, follow me, movie ever it was it started out. I was gonna, be like a two men. A little Iphone, video and turned in to a wanting five men, film, ELM and new- are
and we hold in every favour, possibly share dead, all star cast in this thing. It was a mark, you memory about at the may rise and fall of correct, the making a babe directors second movie after after her first big head by no. No, no, The first movie that she made was called no nine, I know now here she's never want to go nightmare, since you say no, no, no! Nine now is so. That was her first fell and you go got five euros in Bradley Clover was at the president for your brother's Gregg Silverman was in a at my age. It was in its, I began. I call it Every time there is a new scene, I would just start screaming laughing at you got these people to participate in this, but that the crane Yes, they do want to say now you can say it if the movies
it's out, will you guys force me to go to a screening room at Warner Brothers, and why do I? What is this thing that we're going to see and it starts off in its baby director, walking into a building and all other setting, Keith Morrison's voice starts narrating, like it's an episode of day, and I could not figure out what the fuck was happening. Yank there is delta, it did they pull his audio from some existing thing and then I realized. No, he is talking about bay. he director NEA and I was Do you ever have you heard me laugh and never a score? Re me I now I thought maybe you're gonna die a. I hope. The word now would be a right way to go. You now absolutely he wrote, he wrote the copy himself. We we asked if he wanted to or if we would, we could send him some stop and he said he would take a stab at it and
The boy didn't you ll, never yeah above the level of the bar, so high for what he wrote: yeah yeah anyway, you re position. It is like a greek tragedy, it was. I am, it was the labour of love for then audience of one one person is put. So much were. Oh, my God, was the whole Slav Present way out of the water. I await you much better for that. This baby director was like the ultimate gift. Anyone rang given form. unseen it. Yeah we're doing it all under my nose ducas. I was working on the lot and Warner brothers directing and you guys were sneaking in laws at lunch using my office using the golf cart did just exploiting all the assets of Warner Brothers out a permanent, designing a dime yeah, really. It was a gorilla filmmaking at its present. Okay, so Keith What did they couldn't remember what what animals the deadline, just celebrated and it was for coming
up on the twenty seventh. today. I am that makes me upset at its debuting on September, twenty Eightth, it would be there is so much more symmetry if they release and on September twenty seven year our lied and said it was the twentieth anniversary, either outcome of work from near aim. But celebrating twenty seven, The twenty Eightth doesn't want from some lives a little bit too off. It is yes. I understand that this joint so. Full disclosure be recorded this a few months back. Now we are waiting for the premier of the show to come a yes and yes, we like to try to reward people's time sir and donated to us by promoting a project. Yeah does make much sense of four months ago we told you to watch a kick in the season premier in September, twenty eight he would have forgotten, we did it for you, guys, really you're, welcome, but use
said Chris and on all run on member, why you said this, but you said Christian is thirty seven and She Polly was at the time that we recorded that, but she has since turn thirty eight first and bells thirty eight votes. One fact she might not thought you No, I can't help it. I had like every fac directive. Maintain your integrity, anthrax silver. spoons came up again and I Who's gonna find there s a again, but is ok, if you want to listen to that. You want to hear the essay you gonna go to the drama, kill fact checked as we do talk about in the dark health. Ass reader allowed their yeah Ah here. Was there more combat in Vietnam than World war to cause? You that there was well hold on a second. Let's not exactly what I said,
said the soldiers on a one year two or saw more combat then worldwide to soldiers saw in a two year deployment. That's not to say there was more or less cumulative combat it. Just how much combat did your average soldier witness on their tour as one be real clear about that. The average infantry man in the South Pacific during World WAR two saw about forty days of combat in four years, the average infantry. Man in Vietnam saw about two hundred and forty days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the helicopter ergo, so ok get that stood up to what other member just gonna save. There was more combat world war. Two nope I'm killing is by David Grossman PETE. You mentioned that book. A few times of people want all again too. It is called
on killing the psychological cost of learning, to kill and wore an society. So you can do. I remember me recommended to me by my body Duffy, whose a Navy seal yeah I have a sad that killing killing ever sad fact the correct, oh yeah area. It is sad for real. also at this time they were accorded this Barton was still with us you referred to York step, dad your car, you say my current step dad and he is pass. Yes, so is still your stepped out of course, but so people known
yeah easy that Walter. He is sadly my dad area myself, I'm with you. Ok, I won't say when I was a kid, my former dead right. It is gone, I'll get my old dad everything got through the year. That is Well, you know, but it's it's big, cause You would never referred to one of your old step that, as your step dad of your previous stem. I accept the exactly I wouldn't say my step dead, Gregg right so you'd say my exit, add or my old stuff. but you're hopeless. Pardon me, mother, sat down again you ok, is young street the longest street in the world. You said it was
until ninety ninety nine, the Guinness Book of World records, repeated the popular misconception. And it was one thousand eight hundred ninety six kilometres long and thus along the street in the world, but this was due to, conflation of young street with the rest of Ontario Highway, eleven, so so what I did say of Ngos will today here today. The section of young street is is a prevent shawl, my salary LISA Highway, which I would now ask, the Guinness Book of Records no longer less young street as along the street in the world and has not chosen a replacement street but Sid, but Sir the PAN american Highway, agile worlds, long motor a bull road o interesting hellenes outbreak. I think that's what people raise the PAN American
raised on. China is a race I want to do in my lifetime, doll, vintage cars and erase through public roads in Mexico, and then they shut down little sections in those sections are timed out only open a back up so take a ride. Ellie and timed raising its is like an early Marty. You roll into these towns in your vintage cars in everyone's dancing and celebrating drinking to kill. It seems really fun, Oh let us some fun, you ok, the doubt its natural disaster? We wondered if it was the sooner me the deadliest faster, since nineteen hundred was the nineteen thirty one, China, floods a hundred thousand people couldn't but it was the deadliest this, the Indian Ocean Cinema in two thousand for was the third on the list. after the nineteen seventy cycle in Bangladesh, Cyclops yeah,
cycle on a hurricane. We figured out like any longer and use a tornado block. I don't know, I think it's a tornado. I think it's a hurricane holy FUCK, Robbed is came in a three point: seven million for the China's flood. That's a lot of people yeah. Thousand there were they weren't report didn't know how to come back at night online or things common over these countries. Back in the data on the reports that cause they're trying to maintain their image abroad, they would feel about stuff the opposite. It s getting attention by senior said yesterday that sympathy Secret now go on China,
Ok, we're gonna, tell us of recycling, is a tornado hurricane or on Rob Biogas, so threatened driver around Why why the cycle I think cycles are hurt, I think her NATO we'll how much you wanna bet many miles. Verses was the big ugly guy who is always choose When is it always your name? I chatter something in making the roads. Razors is again Cheats Alla time. Is it biggest guy now say that too I am in your manager mouse. I don't know about. Circular may be referred to as a typhoon or a hurricane. So I am is the direction. Is the typhoon sometimes referred to as a tornado? Is it a three step down on another because our name
a much smaller storm that starts over Why now in is and continues, I think, a big I'd. Think of hurricanes come off were honorary ass? They do an typhoon you're really. what what site What are you getting map brown, So all we have been a tornado. My whole life, you know what you're thinking of is with twist are now hold, I think cyclone as a shape in so he tore. Nato can take on the shape of a cycle, but I think a storm. That's called a cyclical agreements may be worried. and some level you could call a tornado a recycled, but the Cause Cyclops Tornado, making sense. I'm out on a limb renown of waded out the deepwater tropical Storm David.
As long as it's all right, I was just dead right against. A tornado could be a psychological, described as a cycle, but a cycle and could not be described as a tornado ape cycling is any kind of tropical winds known right now, so yeah. So, ok, now now, ok, this makes so much more is said. It's a technically which I am I abide by the technical rules as Hag Mc Lean, a buzz. I reminded any kind of circular storm. I want to remind you that your initial statement was a site closures, torn NATO yeah. So I can make. No, it is a tornado could be a cycle on both sides.
on camp sites? Clown could be because a cycle and technically as any sort our storm, so a cycle include be a hurricane or a tornado. You Admetus defined on the internet, a statement that said a tornado could be a tropical storm. Now known it's annoying aside and go about us a clone is the is the overall top ten cynically now we know now they ve changed it. Ok before its high, sigh clone is the technical term for an me, sir. from so it's the over as the umbrella sidewalk under right again, so you could describe a tornado as asylum the torn ADA was a circular storm, but a site clone in Bangladesh could never be described as a tornado in that was. Your first statement is that a cyclone hit Bangladesh, which you think as a tore, nato- and I said no-
Avatar, NATO, you see my distinction. I hope that somewhere in America, a man was driving a truck with a gun, rap bind his head and he pulled the rifle offered. The gun reckon shot. Hysteria was, who did it fits in with it what and by my fact, that it could be a tornado down in Bangladesh. Yeah I'll go along with that Think Bangladesh, Bangladesh. On the water yeah. I just can't. I guess it's on the water level. Those ship graves there, the people to take their huge ship. since just dessert em in Bangladesh and then all these kids in IRAN they go and they take parts out, traded, make scrap out of m o railing at supporting early seen the beach where they Parker Mahler sick. Sixty minutes, I well out there on the wider than a party, is a hurricane. Unfortunately,.
I'll get you said some quote any current member who said He said the quote was where creatures of our tools, It changes more than we changed them, but the real quote is worth it. I bet you're laughing, who laughed adjust now? Maybe you ve gone paranoid. I'd really do. Dreaming meals up I'll, say, laughed arrive, but the little love me, ok, all you do is you ve grown a little paranoid? No indeed, even you look like we were snickering aren't you were such about recently tat. The real quote is men have become the tools of their tools and that's Henry David, the Rome who on Walden Spa, yes Walden.
yes, I love David's row and I was in high school. I was one of the only poets I, like Z, align the M marched into the beat of your own drum. He said it differently. Also, DDT Http with that withdraw my mama really upset him too. Yes, she said that she came out terror, that's up and the actor just throw. First, I'm a man of my senses down it's his son. your son is throwing cash. But my first question to him was: are you in some way related to Henry David? Throw any actually is he a guys like I want to say. Is this like great great uncle or something no wonder is over? I wish I could be relate
it to a thorough. Will you and I have talked about this? We we differ on this people who are interested in their genealogy to find out, like famous people in their history, and that has no appealed to me and it does you yeah yeah, that, with its one other thing, I would feel special if I had that blood you and I was like- I wouldn't feel the least, with special. I didn't accomplished right on Walden Spartans, even on walls by just one while then yeah yeah yeah. I did what you saw. How could I take any pride and I you do that occurs in genetic, so real, so things do get. ass down. So if it's someone is a profound in our profound per cement society figure, your hair, at their status? The organ inherit, whatever made them profound well, could be alas, no, but none of us
but agree if your grandpas a holocaust denial that your somehow guilty of that he's got nothing attending. But we would agree that no one should take on the sins of their grandparents. So why on earth would you be able to take on the the their accomplishments of your grandparents? Just like you have nothing to do with them? This is proud to get a prize. I don't think you re use good. I will live with pride of rigour, family. No, it's good to have pride in your own accomplishments. You ve tried over your mom's accomplishments. I wouldn't call fry that have admiration and respect. Will you help me but you have private. You come from a hard working. Sir said gangster yeah you're, proud of them. Nor do I have
man, I don't feel like I started. I wake up or like I'd, feel better about myself because she was so awesome ages. I was like. I still have to do everything meta philosophy. Shore car is not saying like you automatically get to the next level, but it's it's opening. This is your care system, speaking through your privilege. How dare you My parents were on raising a browser. It's no use! It ground. There are their primary. I asked I guess, They are ass, not to brag began again. Mozilla happened again visit, feel you feel frightful when you think of a high cassius from now. I think that's discuss right, my dad, but if they were, if they were like Nelson Mandela, I'd be tied up. though much pride, they ve done anything like that. You will have a lot of pride,
I have a lot of pride that my my there now have no. Prior to the Bible on a private, my grandfather is biologist and had did all these studies and genetics them, as is brilliant. I've. A lotta pride on that I've admiration, an pride like I'm proud that that is where you card Yeah yeah. You know the alike well Then you need to accomplish something amazing, I think of you. Cooler to come from, like seventh generation incarcerated parents, and then you go to Harvard that's like a man Who were underdog story yeah? I love that two earlier, but I love you will you get you now dog?
playing games. You get me, don't get upset you again, you don't get it so you have to find a way to be proud of either thing yeah. I got a grating uncle that murdered another one of the articles, Neil up, that you really do, love that! Well, yes, because it makes it that much more impressive. What my grandma office did And then my dad and then me we also think it's called again. to I, or rather we are now. I think you would go visit our great grandma haunch. All this AL, who had committed them, homicide Now it is tiny white is indeed have a pistol with them at all times it was fucking scaring that was also fall. Am I being near weigh up north mission? It was like if, if cow want to shoot us, it be years before and unfair
when you were out in the middle of nowhere they were chickens run around everywhere and here's uncle Callen is tight. Whites in a thirty eight pistol is a variant, situation. You know what this reminds me of the piazza hillbilly. Elegy yeah. That's all I know that's all. I know We should have that author on this debate. I would love to have him on. And I would not I would be on his side. I know you were in it have Sancho cow. If you had uncle cow you, it would read, it would read phony to you, I guarantee it, but I can have on a debate it I'd like I'd like to do. I also come. I can recommend the book, I'm not saying don't read the book, everyone who read it loves it. I personally about like the stories warrant first hand. They were third him. That's my that is my critique,
yeah and that's just me assistant bag. It's a big thing to say that I don't think it's that big of a thing. If you know something, if you're an expert at something you can tell when you're here the non expert told them. You are an expert in your life in Europe I've story, you, you can't say you're an expert on everyone's life story, and I am now I would salmon expert on drunk adults being violent. I'd, say I'm an expert on that which was put it this way like we always talk about boyhood on this, you had cast link later told the true story there have been found. His store egg or somebody's. He today's very specific story that right
Nato, with a lot of people, had AL and had a lot of themes that cross over in the world. It was very clear: the weather was the person who wrote it or directed it, yeah that that person had actually had that experience, and that was that was tangible, and I know it's true and I would be able to add an end they when reading that book, I dont get the boyhood feeling I dont say or heat he was in that situation. I go. He heard about that situation. Yeah nice, stand by that We all want to fight me on here I'll, never really solution him. A knife is right now. What is a my mind, whoever one that piss white won the argument? I would not be surprised if that's what you thought
will listen, I've I hate when I lucien these things. We start out really good. Where air C c. C: H, easy! I'm an illusion live while ass now you're mad at me. I'm really ology, I'm not mad at you, but I'd, but I I'm not mad at you by your frustrate. I give frustrate the EU some. Times are no it all. Now that you make your that, then you can't possibly there's no way a whole new world that somebody We have had a similar experience. As you and it ended a bit different and it comes across a bit different.
yeah. What I'm saying is, if someone tells a story where a drunk at all with a history of violence, takes four steps that I recognizes the four predictable steps and then the fifth step is completely antithetical to what that person with them. And do next is the same in my opinion as being a chemist who is really The account of someone and mixing hydrogen and peroxide than this than that and in their along, right and then the first thing they added turns blue and you got no matter what happens It's not science. People's people are Ryan's not has regiment way predictable than you do me. I don't understand, that's ok, we're
yeah, because they all went the same way, the even if the people were different and the houses were different. When a man with pride who is violent is until things happen, they happen the same way for every single guy. That is a violent, drunk guy on full till. If the people around him are gonna be victims and he can get away with it. It happens. I've watched it happened with dozens of different people all the same outcome, so I dont think that, because it was in Ohio, daddy, I seen a Anna and permanently just one person. I now talking about many people, in one area, Michigan in your area, Michigan we're not many areas in Michigan. when he fares in northern Michigan Livonia, where my grandparents lived of Sturgis. Where my grant you no sooner miles away so
Maybe it's a specific Michigan, but I don't think so. I think it specific to why violent pride for man, else. We ve just so you know what I've made. This comparison of war If I'm reading men these book or reading something the disease has written about his life, and his family and those things or any of these books. I I I dont like ball, yet something that doesn't match my perception of of growing up to the UN parents or anything like that, or all of that that too is just that purse its experience in that circumstance, that circumstances the same as mine, but the experience and is not guaranteed
to be the same. Oh yes, yes, Our experience at the eye of the storm will be completely different, unique to you. I agree with you, but it you tell me that you take a grizzly bear out of a cage and you five people with a lot of meat around their neck, and then you hit the Grizzly bear with a baseball bat. I can tell you what the bit grizzly bears gonna do. The grizzly bear is to me the variable that doesn't change now the people sitting in the circle with the meat strapped round her neck. They could have any number of interpretations of what that experience was like in yes couldn't argue whether they were scared or they had empathy or they felt like the or providing a service or the bears a bully. Those things which is as easy as perspective, Minis Perspective, Europe, respect those things are all completely subjective, but what a grizzly bears gonna do is not, in my opinion, very subjective. We can predict what a brisk a grizzly bear does not two things one. I have to disagree based
My parents my parents are not doing what the grizzly bear. Parents did often in these stories sure some. So this idea that there is like a except acted out come every time and that in ITALY there would be an expected outcome, but they did not follow that yeah. But but again, if the ghost stories the Grizzly Bear got up on his hind legs? It growled! Let us then it then it swiped at us, and then it lay down his back unrolled around we all pet it. When you get to that point, I'm like that didn't happen. I'm sorry that you guys didn't pet. The grizzly bear it didn't roll on its back and go even further
these situations where a man is enraged. What makes a person a person a human is, the frontal lobe is the part of their brain. That is thinking about the future, making decisions with empathy and sympathy and all these things and behaving the way we want people in society to but had drunk lunatic on it or not rage. Bender is fully mid, brain thinking, their brain that they're using at that point, is as primitive as the Grizzly bears, so that the all that frontal, cortex stuff is off line, and I think there are incredibly predictive is my is just why I think it's different than like you're at dinner. Your parents are both immigrants from India, what's the outcome. Well, there's so many variables, Khazars identity in funneled, cognition and projecting in the future and theirs. million varieties, but.
I would say the same thing about any human in any circumstance Joan I ever once again on killing what you just brought wants. Your heart rate is one seven b and your adrenaline as reaches a certain point. You, your frontal lobe, doesn't work you're, all mid brain thinking, which is that whole book on killings about so once you reach a state nobody's thinking what their front. I just can't how through do you think that every person who has Alzheimer's behave in the same way Does the same degenerative thing is happening to their brain, People with Alzheimer's are not relegated amid brain thinking that sound what's happening, but I'm I'm just talking Their brain is is dead,
then a rating in the exact same way. All of these people were over announcing sincerely is it I don't know, that's how it works out of it, attacks the exact same apart of everyone's brain or if it's like the indifferent spots, indifferent people or what I don't know, I guess, but you could. You could propose that the eye pathetically to me as If all timers patients all end up with simply mid brain thinking, I would say there yet there their behaviour we get really predictable. Thing it does it. That's why they're indicators of Alzheimer's or are there are predictable elements qualities, but that doesn't mean that every single person is going to to behave the exact same way, because of that I just
guess you know for someone like you who rides himself in seeing in not seeing things in such a black and white manner in life. that it feels it feels it feels very find your sensitive yeah yeah. yeah? I maybe I can escape my history, but I have seen a hundred guys get violent and I don't think that those stories in that book rang true from those experiences I have. I just don't more ethical he's, probably an amazing guy I would like in the book is very well written. I recommend people read it Jimmy, I didn't find it to be yet in rings, yeah? I just like if I wrote a book about Ella gangs, the experience of being in an ally gang someone.
was really an ad in the crypts. They would read, it may go this dude wasn't they would be able to tell. I wasn't no matter how much research I would do on it. yeah. I don't think you and that's eggs. equally the idea, your accusing him of doing that and your cycle, that is, huge accusation. I dont that's not fair, though its by the way, this Jack same thing happened in? I was dead right away million nine hundred million little pieces, which I loved to great book, and so is my friend Leonard. our I read million little pieces, I loved it. It's a great book and they said that's bullshit. That is not an attic, would not possibly do the things that he just didn't have the outcome. We have I'm sorry, I've seen eleven hundred people try to get sober and knowing what he said about himself in how we used theirs, no way that that happened. I knew it. I saw your level and everyone there was sober, knew it and every
it was not said. No, that was his experience and then come to find out what he had to admit that that wasn't true. He had made that up you can know when something's not true. Yet No, we in it, because it's a huge accusation on somebody's integrity. You don't even know this person, you never spoke to them in your life or taking one. Passage and deciding more Europe giving a moral evaluation on a human, but it wasn't wrong with million little pieces. Ok, so everyone ongoing time will but everyone that thought there was correct. That's fine, but in Stephen King wrote this great piece in the back of entertainment weekly. I encourage people to find it. It was his name romilly little pieces. You remember that as James
yeah James, by the way, I feel so bad for him that he was exposed as having James Frey. I feel so bad that James Ray was outed like that on Oprah, and I don't agree with any of that. I don't think you deserve any that I think you wrote a beautiful book and it's awesome, but I knew it was bullshit and Stephen King wrote this great thing in the back of entertainment weekly a one page thing about: we, we attics always knew it was fake and we just you, you can say we dinner, you can say it's unfair. You can say all this stuff that noise is expense. it could have been unique. You can say all that, but we knew we knew from page ten and we were right in so. For me, I have the same feeling. Reading hillbilly ology that I had when I red million little pieces, and I just have that feeling I stand by it cause. I was vindicated the first time and it didn't work for me.
Do you love on this? One does neither did it help when I at least Parallel with that book now Bermudas for you to see my point of view, No. I know that that happened in that's already been proven to all be true, sir. That's a set to me. I think it's it's Erasmus a bold to be making a public accusation about somebody's moral integrity. I think that's barriers answer well, and I think we would have had earlier about James Ray I think what you said earlier about a bow, But he sang Reno reading. That's, bore saying that you ve had plastic surgery, when you know that's, not true, and they can say. I know a plastic surgery looks like what I've seen it. I know for a fact: that's what it looks like it's not ok, to do that. Sound, ok,
but that parliament is Eve. I'm had a word re I'd clear, I'm not slandering that author. I know I'm not even saying what I am saying is that the book doesn't ring. True to me no, that is not one that is not how those things go down. That's find a safe site. Does I entreat you? That's not true you ve, said some other stuff. In this conversation, that is more defamatory. Yeah I mean out again, I go back to the James writhing I who at every attic knew it so. and you would have said I can't say that, then you decide, you can't say that that's not really. What happened with his writing and I'd, say. Ok, but I know its not just not that's not how it works. I know how it works through a ton of talk about ten thousand hours. four thousand hours- I know, that's, not how it works.
There must also be room in this other right for a vigorous, yeah addiction is more scientific, then the culture right, I don't know, yeah. It is its there's more science involve an addiction in what's happening in your brain chemistry. In all these things, then, then, then, the economy variants of living in a place that far There is far more subjectivity there you have it. The premise of the book is is, it is, is elaborating on how the culture of pride works, how it started in tennis in Kentucky how it then migrated north though high, which it also migrated nor through Michigan. We know that comes from scottish and irish settlers who herded animals and they had- and define boundaries and that's why they had to stand there ground and fight. These are all things that have been very well studied and we understand causality. Why it's happening.
and now, when you just talking about what the result of the culture of pride is, and some of it is just not ringing true, I dont really not to say about that. This is why I many you and I'll probably for years, disagreeable, have away Iris use an adversary, and I appreciate your conflicting thoughts. Always I respect you as well. I love you. My dear you many miles.