Michael Gervais is a high-performance psychologist and co-founder of Compete to Create. In this episode of Experts on Expert, Michael sits down with the Armchair Expert to discuss working on the RedBull Stratos project, the nuisance of overcoming mental obstacles and his work with Microsoft employees to maximize work performance. The two talk about the mindfulness revolution, optimal coaching techniques and steps to train your mind.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome welcome welcomed armchair expert, this addition of experts on expert with your host Monica pad men and her boy too Dan Chauvelin. Today we have a very interesting human being. Very then, I'm not even that in the sports, because it doesn't it, they transcends sports. Doesn't it yeah, but Michael driving? It is a sports psychologist or a high performance psychologist. Any works with some amazing folksy worked with that crazy bonkers red ball Guy, who jumped out of from outer Ace also worked with the Seattle Seahawks. He really knows his shit. He was grey. He was really fun to talk to him about I want trains, they're mine to accomplish their goal. Howdy even find out. Your goal is in your purpose: mental gymnastic mental is a mental and physical gymnastic. They also podcast
called finding mastery with Michael Giovanni. I encourage you to listen to that. It's really interesting. Also, there are a few tickets left for San Francisco. So if you haven't got knows please swinging on over to our website W W W armchair expert pod that calm follow the linking you can get tickets for that or its too late. Please enjoy Michael Travail. We are supported by athletic greens. I travel with athletic greens goes right into my DOB kit, with my other tops. My other die ups necessity mine, assessing what minus as it is for my face and then for my health. Of course, I'm using athletic rings in all in one super food supplement was seventy five proven vitamins, minerals and whole food sourced ingredients. Designers. What your buddies nutritional needs across five critical areas of health, energy immunity got, health, hormonal support and healthy aging. That's got adapted genes extracts herbs and accidents, it's got dear,
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welcome to experts Unex, where I'm really excited talk to you, because we have really talk to anyone that does what you do now ineffective, a very nodded nor mine had put a very neat endeavour. I can imagine that there are too many folks in your field. Are they well there's a large industry psychologists, then there's a smaller industry of sport and performance, psychologists and then much smaller of folks that our spending time in hostile rugged environments and so in sport? Psychology, prenatal, Maria but that's really the study of the extraordinary. How did extraordinary people do with it Do the one thing I was listening to you talk on this topic. You are pointing out that historically, psychology was kind of a pursuit of pathology or looking for you know things that were wrong with people's thinking or mental process season. In that there was a sham
forty or fifty years ago, where people started going will hold on. Let's look at extraordinary things that are happening are highly efficient things that are happening. I get there right now, that's it traditional cycle, is born out of the medical model, and you know that that's got to study the dysfunctional things. That's where we started and so very different. Now you know the interest I think is much higher for the study of, and I'm talking about, broadly speaking for how the most extraordinary thinkers indoors in the world operate in condition themselves to be able to do just that. Yeah. The interests is higher there. Yes, because we are more attuned to want to know how to explore potential. Rather than to identify the things that are not working well yeah, there seems to be this kind of cottage industry in the book world of exploring me now, famous people who have been
extraordinary in their functionality at some given profession like even I read outliers. Of course I was drawn to that and if you read that Malcolm Gladwell book even essentialism- I don't know if you know about that book. But again it kind of does he's quick, portraits of people who are you know, have some enviable achievement. And we are, we seem to be kind of obsessed with people who are you no special in that regard? For sure I may we always have ok, so there's a history of this. I am eating while, like let's go back to divinity fascinated even time, not anymore Mozart. You know like and then even more modern times like Mother Teresa, you know, even though she is not an artist person, she might have been one of the most this woman in the world without appear for the yes
really brought through and without social media are anything like. I would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know who she is or what she stood for. Yes, although the church, the Catholic Church, very famous amplifier of messages they did, they do have free, network. They can disseminate info pretty quickly and do other things with information as well. The other can really Marietta Hider, India. They ve been quite barely town. It's a lot less all recent variously informations occurrences, yes, so just to give up like a little of some bread crumbs of where will end up Michael you, you both worked with the guy who jumped out of the red ball. Straddles revival. Remember, there's a guy who he jumped from technically outer space right was as it. What was his elevation when he did that, just about a hundred thirty thousand feet hundred and thirty thousand feet, that's in credible cause the moons only two and thirty four thousand miles, or something like that. The other project was named after the stratosphere says rebel Stratus. So he went right to the edge. If you will of space, I mean
the environment. There is one of the most hostile environments in the world right, you know, blood boils you can't breathe without support, and it is a one of the most dangerous environments and you end up in a capsule. What was it being Ellen it through, like a weather, balloon type situation huge, whether below that took him up to that distance and it was designed to basically stall or stop at that place? You know in that range and right will waive right there already out of the gate, the vat rate that range I mean they run any kind of me no trial without him in it to see if it yeah, there's lots. These are some of the brightest minds and aerospace that had a real interest. This wasn't like a let's go, get you know, culpable bones and see what we can do that you're like these, where some of the brightest minds and airspace trying to sort out what happens if we're gonna leave this planet, what happens if we have to hit Egypt button? My right right,
I was a great endeavour that went into it at the same time. There are you. There is a real interest from Felix to know I can I could I cook: can I be the first? The do it may be. The only like does that part of its workforce and winning glory yeah for sure who was there any? in collaboration with any kind of like NASA type TAT was it. You know the officially. The names of the folks in the industries that works It is more of Africa. I was out all the aerospace engineers yeah yeah yeah recognition stuff, but there was there was some support. I actually dont know the exact kind of way grey areas on. You say that, yes right so they brought contracted some kind of aerospace. Jp all types
said the sailor right exactly right, any was all funded by red bull in their endless pursuit of the impossible which is entertaining is held a watch. I feel grateful. I was born in an era where they're like funding stupid things. It is wild and you know it's interesting is that you and I watched them, and they are. We see crazy, but we mess like this. They Felix we missed when he jumped off the curb just a little earlier than everyone else. We missed when he jumped off the fourth step whenever one else was jumping off the third step with the stairway you know, so we must, when he jumped out of a tree when he jumped Phil. Why were joining him at the apex of his pursuit? Yes, at a totally different experience, he's highly skilled right in credible around becomes skilled at falling out of an army is guy. Like a lot like leverages side known, I was, I was dismayed without a paddle, and I were there is
stand in it where we jumped off like hundred twenty four waterfall, and I very much want to do that, because that was my hobby as a kid was jumping off bridges and stuff, and this it will know we cannot allow you to do it because a river you haven't been train for twenty talking about trained, there's, no training for jumping off water, what you just fucking jump in the land, I'm not flat water and you keep your arms. What would you like? A train? There's no school for jumping off waterfalls, anyone centre digital? They did not we. What was really helpful for my ego is that Bert Runnels was also in the movie, and he said that a poem societies it did you see deliverance, Nego, yet love it. You my hero, started, then use remember when I went down that waterfall and unlike Yang us, I broke my back and you can't tell me what the guy's jump. The white paper's like birds tell me to pass thumbing its I've been fascinate, though most of my life like and we can use your stories example like. Why did you want to jump what wide why you want to do something that was dangerous in
in a sane mind? That's not what we're supposed to do, which was to protect ourselves. Resources like take care of our next generation were supposed to provide resources for our loved ones like. Why did you want to do that? I wondered at you I, don't have it at all. I never want to jump off the water far right, even if everyone's doing I could care it's about that. No my thing I now understand to be tribal some rights of passage, proving my willingness to get into a life threatening situation so that my brother's know that I'll be there for them like. I now understand the mechanics evolution airily, why I was drawn to that stuff, but I will put on top of that another layer which is no dad around trying to get male approval from all peers in so anything that earn jus glory or gave you manhood. I was the first to sign up by fought. I drank too much I try to have sex with everyone like anything in all the the generic bullet points I was just running through. If you were to ask me twelve years ago, just like
why doesn't like it, and I would have us believe that, yet again it does for me we jump up this railroad bridge and in our all the time it's it's me. Sensation. I just really love it, but I now understand There was way more happening than that. So you ve done some work. Yes, yes, someone fourteen years sober silicon requires you to do while some people like knuckle. If that's true European Vincent, that's a hard way to go now exactly you know, I meet people all time that they're doing, which is great and I go via. Can I just beyond you did, the quitting drink was the least I got out of his ass. I mean literally that's the ransom Orton thing for my life at this point. Let's call back to why were you drawn to those things? Oh yeah, you are yeah, I'm in so I grew up in action sports and your action adventurous work,
those things that are just a little off access back country type sports, as opposed to soccer sticking ball sports, like I played them as a kid, but I didn't fit in. I didn't like the manufactured part of it and so you have always been Johns that in there's an alive this ok can I got a banana armchair theorize anew as well. Just tell me: this holds water at all. Also, you dad work too much right. Yes, when dead works too much or does not their death camp do reps in the yard. He's not gonna throw the ball eighty times it shoot baskets, you're not gonna, run long for a pass, so I didn't have any one at home working with me in any that stuff, so those who organise sports when I showed up, I felt so behind the buck, everyone else was so advanced sounds like for these things drawn the individual sport or no one. No one dared could have passed on snowboarding. Does it didn't exist or skateboarding or be MAX? So I have to imagine that in your soup somewhere, like that, you ve done your homework.
He's good, like that, you recognise arm chair, you got no business, making this assessment both as a really really good. You know dad worked a lot and then was around four shore to play sports to two. It was actually coach for my socket going ok, so there is some of that engaged, but your spot on about like there is a draw to the borderless environments where there's there's really very few rules, and so that was actually the draw more than like. I didn't I didn't fit in because I couldn't catch the ball. It wasn't that ok yet was more like women. This is our manufactured and there's a lot of rules. Goin on here am I don't feel right like I don't feel like that's the dna of the yeah, and so I was more attractive to the other stuff. Did you or do you have any version in general to male authoritarian or disciplinarian types? It's a really good question, because
currently the last eight years I ve been up with their seattle. Seahawks felt him ends well John Schneider, the GM and Coach Karel de Carroll, the hacker when they draft players There is an insight in an understanding that, when there's not a male figure around for extraordinary talent like we're betting, big on on your extraordinary talents in the difference in the way that we engage with them in coach when there was a figure round and when there wasn't it yeah, the so awesome flat up here it is they're, just sent different sensitivity. Are you allowed to tell me how those approaches differ? Oh sure, I think that this is not a rule right. I thought, but the idea that if there wasn't a male figure that had that baritone voice and that occupied the spy is that you would imagine from a larger voice call it a male energy for lack of a more tickled placeholder chair, that as soon as a coach takes that space, so the burden
voice as a large presence, and there is a suggestion or command that what you are doing is not good enough that if all the sudden it's like new territory and all of the alpha tendencies pipe up and one or two things happened- fight orphans right. So they get small. Which is rare and alpha sports, they get small or day, let's use a phrase like a conference, a beau up. Unlike what what talk to me like- and it's like wait a minute, I'm actually addressing you, I'm just using decoding. I am using my voice to say what you're doing is not good enough. Does it does this over attachment to the person being criticized and then the male energy of them? Can a booming presents a fuel yeah
then there's layers to write title is complicated. A you didn't have dad you weren't used to that being kind of bossed round by a guy, and you don't know the reward of it, because it leaves those guys got male approval. They got dad's approve on. They felt like they were, come in men, but all out into a single mom means random dudes come around, which was my experience, and suchlike. Here comes a new dude with a whole game plan, how we shall live a whole, trusting, there's lair lairs on trust, as were eager to nature like manna, I'm an adult now the days of me listening to some random do tell me what the game plan is as out bewildered eyes that I trust that they left you know so are so. Who are you now tell me what to do, but the the essence the net net of it is that it is hard to be coached. It is hard to be in a relationship where the person is pointing the things that are not good enough and that's an amateur coach world class coaches like the basket
in the world. They are in a relationship to want to see a person flourish. They ask way more questions than give directives and there they really deeply regard the experience of the door and the thinking patterns that support the doer. So they asked a lot more questions yet, and it is the positive reinforcement also amplified. Are, I don't think so now I guess so that that serve with if we broke it up in a bands, I like we're talking about this, because I don't talk about this. You like this is like a visit. This conversation I rarely get out fascinating. I can promise you that the first time I had it's like I'm delighted to hear that that even a strategy that exists got them going suggesting theirs is really bull, headed swiftly and sports psych. No, now you were not bending to your will you get with the Fuckin programme. Are you get on another team which sure there are those which way to go through it, but you could be leaving you know the neck
Allen Iverson out in the car, because you didn't, you know you could have gotten a lot. More could have been short sighted. There's lots of ways to create cultures, to you know, bring out talent. If you will there. We are not a whole lot of ways to create a culture that celebrate people's uniqueness and to help them flourish. Both on and off the sporting environment and that something the coach girl has done. An extraordinary way is that he is, you know and I'd love to go into detail about this, but he has created. A relationship based approach and so not an outcome based approach, but a relationship based culture It is designed to understand the person their core, what they're about what they want, help them shape that and then back Phil View in a green right and sometimes in a visible handshake. Sometimes it's really clear and written, but an agreement that ok, we understand the fabric of of what we think is possible in the athlete
you know nods their head and there's a calibration back and forth like yeah. Ok, let's agree that we're gonna work towards that end. Then we back through all the psychological tools, all the physical tools and technical tools, and that becomes the essence of the culture. No, what is it due to again? If I were, I could check and imagine fearing that will shit if I give Jim this programme these set apart, manoeuvres and then I gotta give Kyle. These sat there'll, be players who are resentful, let's say players who had two heads and are afraid of authority or what not there's gonna be different rules properly or see. Now there that's different. Ok, I'll rules are different thing. This is like the essence and the fat. Well, you're being the hautala using communicate the agreement that you're seeking to go on this thing together and whatever it this isn't. This is your sport is just an app metaphor for life, really in many ways and
This is an agreement. This could be a father son. This could be a spouse where what is possible, for you start there like what what is possible in your life, not probable. What is possible- and I did look question yeah. How does one assess what's possible cassettes thy unknown great yeah? That is where I think that the genius of imagination comes in calibrated with history. Ok, you know. So it's like balancing those two things, because if you, if you us using your imagination alone and it's not grounded in something that has some evidence, its little crazy, where you can say, I want to run a three second. Forty are deaf, rightly rail and you haven't trained and right and no one's ever done it. The fact that no one's ever done it. The problem is that your d conditioned or have never been, condition, was on, grounded and a place. That's real now you're getting into the art of bringing out the best and other people, and so that that the really cool skill and whether again,
but it's a relationship, whether it's an employee, whether it's a kid you know like that. Starting with that question is really cool and I also don't forget the part about rules. Oh yeah we're different, so rules are like there are different rules, unwritten rules and written roles in some cases for high earners. They the extraordinary talents you not, and if those rules Ben's or bleed too much in other people's dignity, he becomes problematic. But they're like it be naive to say everyone's treated the same. Not everyone is treated equally different because we're all uniquely different, and so that's the- Duration is like. Let me know you, but the rule is, and coach girl has three rules on off your curious to know the origin of our looking one. I was protecting tick, Erika right, whether that's on the fields,
the field, whether that's in a club urinate, whether media guy get hot you fucking over there and if you use that was protected him. Your part of this crew here, like take care of you. Bigger than always. Yes, maybe that's a really important part of why the majority of people Don T well after spot, I was just getting that up. I was really compelling interview with Brett Farm he was saying Post football, he didn't miss the adulation. He didn't miss the page check. He missed the calm, Roguery in being a part of a unit in, and he actually had to find a new unit leave as life yeah yeah. That's and it's not easy francs, actually ones that are so mission minded. So Brotherhood based whether it's a female you know or Austria, a male environment like or mixed like that brotherhood, as lack of more sensitive word, like togetherness, is rare, so you're, not so laws protecting. Take every other memory now neuron, no,
no complaint excuses and other its own. Your stuff! Ok right, although we know complaining notes, you, that's gotta, be a tough one man and we have fun with it as soon as someone like it what's up and they go. I know my my dog, whatever, like the room, Willie Rob like all my role to violate or local. We got here like you know, so I was a little yet let its fun and you know, there's lots of little textures too, that there are there by the way. You know this well Monica I of course, but our two years resolutions as your work were kind of of the same tree in this ain't mine was, I was no longer come. Gonna complain about anything they Monica was she's gonna, stop saying I'm busy when people ask how she's dead. I love that same reason like it sounds like a complaint or inequality, this of some sort, even if it's not it's like. There's no reason to do that. The business for me
seems like a moniker of success like a false manicure of success. Like it's not dislike. Are you busy that doesn't mean I'm ineffective with my time re right right, that's true. I love others might hear my thing was. I find this brown lining as opposed to silver lining, even the greatest things happening in my life, because in some level I'm a little bit of ashamed about how disproportionate my luck is banned in life in so I'm always putting spindly. I get this great thing, but knife not you gotta, taking get it serviced, fuckin forty miles away and you can't even write like I'll I'll, just a dump, and then I realized I am doing the kind of hopefully make them not hate me, but it's colouring. My experience has now I'm putting my energy, and so this is indissolubly negative. That's interesting! So that's! U becoming small to all
yes, hide some ways of your successors like hey, I'm just like you. Yes, my shame over having vs shame, embarrassment, Eve. If I'm talk with a friend who I know, makes thirty thousand dollars a year is on a roof all day and is killing their body physically, and I don't want to go where this sure that a red carpet for x amount of money and blah blah blah blah. I feel like a fuckin asshole, I think rightly so, like I need to keep in check a you're talking to someone who's fuckin killing themselves. So I think that's worth started where it's also a family thing. I noticed everyone, my family complains lot is guy, that's also part of the mix. Are, I think that they feel and people in general, who complained feel
then that the negative things are the things we have in common. So I fear relaying the thing. That's negative. It's like that's how we can connect to, because we both that bad stuff right, but it's like that's a horrible way to connect with someone like you can't relate to the fact that I got this really cool car, but you can relate to the fact that it's a pain in the ass to go, get Ex Whimsie done this car, you know, but they could relate. They could relate to that feeling, maybe not getting that new car, but getting something good, and then they like, oh yeah, that making uppers unhappy. That makes me happy searches, issues in misinformed and our brains. You know you does brought this up earlier. That this desire, this deepening, that we have to connect- and so this is a second time we're talking about today- are in this conversation through relationships we become nobody. Does this thing alone right, not even individual athletes, individual actors, businessmen and women, like no
does it alone. There is a deep, deep desire to be connected. Then we will do funny things to connect. Yes, and if you look at the neurobiology of it, what were really chasing in that essence is oxytocin. Ah ha, warm the cut off the cattle chemical, you know that thing that happens after you know you make love or have a baby, what you don't have an exchange, whether it's an intense exchanges but there's an oxytocin release and soda it's one of the reasons that technology is grown us up, not technologies I'm not gonna sit here and dump and beyond that shows like us about technology were using it right now, it's whatever most gray, neither great terrible yeah optimism to you. I would say I would say that, like this beautiful assets, innocent real challenges, but when we're taxing back before that we're looking at pictures of other people that we're not working dopamine serotonin to other really powerful nor chemicals, but we're not getting oxytocin
right, so what happens if we reduce oxytocin, whether were complaining with them more, not or your misguided connection right here or were actually making love with a person or in a grey conversation, I contact is taken place, we're stimulated by the conversation we're getting that oxytocin. We don't have it. We just basically have this thrust inside of us of Adrenalin and feel good chemicals completely alone. That's one of the reasons were seeing people reporting, depression, anxiety related to technology, yet in its it's it's too specific The triggering right you're, your pleasure reward system of your brain dominance- autonomy yeah! That's! So all that you know slot machine Instagram. Everything, quick, ass, shiny, bright, loud bells is, like basically do said. That right is the strawberry on the tree. Evolution airily, but there is not yet there's no, it's it's so to DE it's, the can't produce oxytocin, but what what
priested scrubbers come from an apple? How about our shiny Apollonia apple? Now we're gonna, I remember as an urgent years and what does Virginia fourth grade. California, Morgan agenda that, but first Let's go to rule number three. Some number two is no complaining and then so be it. There's. There's there's some good hearted group shaming when people break that ruled sounds like yet. Yeah right. So it's not this way you broke rule them. It's not like right, you know it's, it's more playful and fun and enact ends up creating in shaping part of the culture of havin. Fun like like coach Carol, loves to have fun, adding loves to figure out how to bring the best collectively out of each other. And then the culture ends up being celebrating I'll, gets a third role but ends up celebrating like manner I feel like I'm like people are invested. My teammates am I just like people are invested in me flourishing and like
they're. Getting it to like this feels really good you're being depend. An accountable to other humans. Weirdly feels good, our intuitive a little bit right as it sounds like it's an obligation or homework or being of service which is going to prevent you from doing something you might wanna do selfishly, but the result is. Very positive right and that's where rules on the three comes and which has been early We would like that, yet it be untie and not be on time. The early or in other words, organize your life in such a way that you demonstrate that you have regard for the other people that are trying to do something difficult and hard beautiful, wonderful, because her sighing right Manuel reality I'd eye on this year we were very judgment or people who are late. We I have also really hard time at people who I lay that like really feels like great disrespect, yeah yeah, but they have valued their time more than everyone else is around in the way that we look at it
that we say there disorganize their priorities aren't quite in line. It would listen. So we that way with its like git your way, icily other brain of this is attribution, error, syndromes, eyes, job, designing, here's, my assigned the character assessment right, which is you think your shit doesn't stinking you're more valuable than other people. That's a character. Asthma in yours was circumstantial, so it's the mechanics of their data, not good planners, which is the much better way to see the world. Well, it takes out like that personal attack. Yes, I'm so glad it just happened, gazettes, it that's a really hard example to give a concrete thing of it and that's it in another. She learned through, I dont did you do tossed ups beget? Yes,
you very, and you ve learned that no like it's not the person, it's the behaviour right answer, that's like and lessons shaming guilt are to the culprits for addiction right that that keeps purely as a one way to help people through. That, too, is to say: listen, it's not! You like your behaviors are not Kay and I'm not gonna be around. You can have these behaviors there, but it's not you. It's behaviors others that line in the big book. That's like we got sick of people, never judging aspire intentions. Only behave like tensions are crazy. Relevant at this point of view, has shown a pick up your kid us three days in or out, stay too. If you dare we our supported by us, if we love Pacific, Chrysler, Pacifica, listen,
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so specific it in because I generally move through life thinking beyond time do every morning with drop my daughter off at school and I fucking suck at it back this morning I saw another parent. I like not doing this well like I, we are rushing every single day we pass on anxiety to our children and life weighs about again and have you for her. Aids is opposed thinking. I must walk through that gate before eight thirty, I just as I like they have twenty five year. Get there Saunders, get everything is going to move back a. Why isn't that mourn over a ten year old business? morning thing a challenge. All it is because I haven't, unlike I'm trying to get me a little bit too I gotta dump. Before I leave the house, that's
non starter, I don't care, I would miss a meeting with the president. I got to get that then you really trying to manage them getting ready. We, I gotta, go to my own thing for a few minutes. If you don't have you don't work for us is that we switch on music in the morning. So you know just so. My son as a playlist, ok, we fired his playlist feel good stuff and we get music drawn in the house in all every room. You get it wrong. It's a changes, the nature of the seriousness of whatever in the morning, yet I'd say one in five mornings. I do that when you slow you down over in their music plain yeah, maybe last you think, though his kids that just makes them dance and did it. I am using a map. Unlike ogre, we gotta, he added with a totally drew, but also generally does no fighting happening. When you come into that invited
That's a fine to me as justice. Distract me like the they can't browser tee from their fighting. They can't russian. They can get already where fighting and there's a whole bunch of fighting if they're not hell, yeah yeah yeah, therefore sick. So it's their share ruminants, but there was something you were gonna say before we got back into rules. Is there anyway? We remember it. I dont bans on the river got to let the bands of Coachman amateur coach yeah, maybe that professional culture we'll talk about that so, like amateur coaches, there's no signs of about one. I'm saying this is like this is obvious and am not able to reference anything from here. You and I say that, because I tried his squarely being in the anchors of science with everything I do and appreciating the innovation has to happen in the theatre. You know in the EP, a theatre of whatever innovation has to happen, but when its ground and good science like we can go somewhere,
amateur coaching they say a lot and then I'm really accurate and its more about them than it is. You know the the other person, but like an amateur coach, maybe they want to do well for other people, but there is just not together rather not skilled and what our ok, then, are they often just API nor parodying, something that some ideal they they absorb through media movies and Hoosier, whatever the fuck, it was lying there, they ve been missed, but perhaps not skilled, Vienna and light, not really informed, and maybe it work for them, but LO in sight and understanding and brown, probably not intentional, inasmuch as they would want to be her ago. And then we ve got a performance coaching. So there you know
they got the stuff together. They say a little bit too much, but they tend to be accurate right. The pretty accurate with what they say like they'd, been around I've got good frames of reference. They understand people that better to understand a craft a bit better, so that their good they're gonna get some good results with boy and it's not all about them right right. So there's a relationship, but it usually is about performance here and it's a snapped into outcomes Alison. We all need outcomes, those invisible handshake that we all make with each other all the time that if you dont perform when I hang out right and unless its family that's different, they are you. Let him get away with murder, it's amazing and then the earliest. I'm sure sure what do you know not for me.
We always debate this and I am always like. I would absolutely shelter a fugitive family member. You it absolutely. You would now have highly word tear my wife claims. She would turn me and she turned her mother and she turned our children. S sake, I'm just a little smaller. All for the sake of other people. Do you have a person could then keep harming people. If we don't do that I'll go to an island that is I'll. Take her I'll. Take the kid we'll go, she's a murderer on her and I will go, spend the rest of our life on an island will make sure it doesn't happen. Argument it headed since go there's like like institutional law, verses like nature of humans and yeah, yeah yeah the dignity and rights of others there, but I got so than those early coaches and those coaches like like us earlier. They ask a lot more questions. Ok, if such a right are, they have such a command. I've seen so many things. They really are
deep understanding and the real deep information comes from the person. That's doing now. Let me just as you really quickly about those coaches. I have to imagine that an element in this is again summer day: hey one, the tenets of aid as find somebody that has what you want and asked them how they got in listen right. So I see this all the time, because again, I'm not super into football, but I love hard knocks I love HBO show about the precision and I love seen the dynamics that exist in the approaches and all these different things. I often think well that guy that coach, he is nothing I want he's fucking morbidly unhealthy. He does our relationship with his wife. He's angry a lot. I see I just on some integrity level. If I'm on that field, am I
sorry but you're not walking the walk, you're, not somebody that has what I want. You don't have any kind of contentment. You don't have peace of mind as other aspects of your lights are all in shambles. So is that at all part of it they have to walk the walk to get that respect. Well, you know it's a. It depends on the culture that they're allowed to be. You know if they are, if it's an outcome base culture and they know how to at all costs help somebody win then I'll probably be tolerated, barely respected, but not loved right. You know not appreciate, not regarded as it depends on the culture. I love that your pointed out like when I go to, let's say a financial adviser like I want them to be really switched on baby. I hope they make tenets whenever it yeah. You know, if I'm going to a fitness coach like have your stuff together, like you know, live it understand it apply it I grant yet. This is one reason I hope I'm not gonna, send you to but
the railways, can strongly systematic have here. Is that, like life, coaching scares me? Oh hours, big aversion to herself so awkward, we're friends yeah yeah as ever, and there are probably hundreds of really great life quotas at a change people's lives. But yes, I am Disan General little bit. Cynical are suspicious tat. You had better be like a just a thriving human being on all which Don T find all levels is like on it. So, and it was now that we're bashing entire industry, but yet so when I look at again, let's all move it out of sports in some way a little bit after this, but when I looked at Feel Jackson. Years ago, has undeniably got something right: he did it in Chicago and then get it here and our way and this kind of harmony that he can instil the kind of introspection, all these different things that he seems to imbued onto players. He also when I did
get him a my other guys walking the walk. He is somehow a Buddhist, he is somehow managing his emotions and he's thinking he's using frontal lobe thinking at all times is capacity over the rest of his brain, like that really special, and if I was working for him, I'd be like yes, I will are you. I can see that you have a secret you're picking up on some. That is really deep, which is alignment inconsistency. So let me back out of that for a minute is that from clarity we then began to have the ability to have conviction in life when and but we need a lot of. We need some real skills to have you no consistency over time, so clarity to conviction as just a first model. What you're picking up on is somebody who is consistent across conditions, and so when its chill,
they are themselves and they can be tightly round or they could be really relax whatever and then in high stakes or rugged are demanding environments they're the same. So what allow that to happen is that they have done the internal deep were, and nobody can do this work for another human, but they ve done the work to know the principles to guide their thoughts, their words and there science, and when you have alignment between your thoughts, your words and your actions across environment, those are powerful human beings. Those are people that were attracted to because they ve done the real work they stand for something their thoughts, their words in there
actions line up, that's Mandela, that was Buddha that was mother Teresa. You know that was Helen Keller that was fill in the bank fell by those people are extraordinary. Nobody can do that. Work for them well by the weather is also another aching that mere as this, which is watch your thoughts, they become your words watch your words. They become your actions. Watch your actions, they become your character exactly right. Yes, what's is really very similar cancer. So that's it get other world sports in that very sympathetic to folks that don't feel that they have a calling right or they dont they're, not driven by some Norstar just from birth, or you know, I'm a very sympathetic to that. I think for me, the scariest feeling and life would be
have a desire to go anywhere in particular tax that that is, unfortunately, the healthy majority, which is really does the word you describe. The adjective you have is right on like there is hopefully deep compassion for people that are still going to no purpose and meaning or lies there. We go yeah, it's really hard, it's a hard thing to do. Nobody can do it for another person. We can be in communities that help think and knowledge and suggest for other people, but we have to do that deep alone work by ourselves with ourselves and there's three ways to do that that I'm familiar with good. Thank you cause. I can't imagine it feels very daunting tried already go out your purpose. Isn't it, though? I mean just talking about it so abstract it so upset you know, but the ok. So let's do let's do that. For me, I was one of those through mechanisms and we can come to snap alert deeper on it. Is that
being around and in conversation with wise people that helps rice or getting yourself with wisdom has worked. An ado here. Does not a point of this point of experts on exports in particular, is like yeah. That's really consider, for some people have dedicated actual time to any founded Lang. Things are now and then the second is listen? This is where mindfulness as a practice pays. You know dividend is to really listen to yourself and so the world so for noise. That getting to the signal is hard signal to noise ratios and our engineering term. Ok, it's also psychological term. So getting to the signal is hard and what were I cannot with purpose and meaning is part of the signal. So where'd you, reveal or get in touch with the signal in the present moment. Mindfulness, which is the act of listening paying attention without judgment on purpose,
is about listening to like what is really happening in the thought strain the emotional stream, the environment like what is happening now. So that's the second and the third is writing we'll get me concrete example that, before your yvonne, you know when you are paying attention, like your listening to yourself and all the suddenness like that. That's like us! That's right, like that's true, like that's a theme in my life, or that feels right to me that that type of aha moment both types of revelations, those internal insights as their often called, though, are difficult to find because we're so cluttered with noise. What we should do, what we shouldn't do, what other people are doing? You know this patients beat of modern day life. There's lots of noise wall right, that's what essentials of gets into a little.
Nobody has budded budgeted time in their life to actually evaluate anything right, you're just going from past it ass tests ass in your never stepping back to get a global perspective of your life, or even just do some inventory this as well. What is interesting and we can find something- many of Us- can benefit from the feedback loops athletes have so for an athlete to get better there in environments the provide real time, and hopefully accurate feedback loops like how do the rest of us get this feedback loops about the email that we sent or the conversation that we had, or this conversation like that I just choose the right word or the right direction that we're taking it. I don't know you know what are the feedback loops and so in athletics. World were classified. Does incredibly sophistical the feedback loops? There's somebody watching you right,
you're gonna be Eimer, that's right and as a coconut quantum court expert, that's helping you make adjustments. They're asking you questions your body is giving you feedback weather on balance or off balance. So to speak. There's film there's tape, there's incredible feedback loops are taking us, but for most of us unfortunate we don't have them now. You can do that with thinking, so you ve been practicing. I saw somewhere ATM oh yeah, yeah yeah. Will the actions are to do a set of activities to become or aware? That's the big word more aware of your thoughts and emotions and what what does that? Technically? Look like her concretely look like mode practices begin with breathing and the reason we focus on a breathing is there's a couple reasons. One is always available Natasha as long as we're alive. Physically, it's available so distant, there's, two types of meditation, their single point and is contemplated.
So single point is focusing on the one thing for an extended period of time could be a flickering. Candle could be a sound or a mantra which is unity. As for your inhale and your exhale, that's the one thing and contemplated just for clarity is like just go with it. Just watch without judgment authority just watch what your thoughts and emotions do, and I may misunderstand my auntie em training, but to me it seems like oddly, a combination of both things because you have the mantra, which is a singular focus thing. Yet you are given permission to let your mind wander as much as you'd like and, as you remember, to bringing yourself back to the mantra, so it's kind of like weaving in and out of both of those that's exactly right. Ok, right and it could be separate, but you could set out to do likes just some explore Tori contemplate of you know following the if you won't see where you go and an end or you could do something more mechanical, which is just follow. The one
thing bright and then, when you're mine wonders, which will just gently bring it back, he asked panic of I'm failing at this looks like a big. These just been given permission to fail for me was why I could do to you. You're not gonna, be perfect. Your your hands are thinking about. Taxes are doing a week. That's ok, thinking out breath one and a half yeah declaring that offer a minute the winning feel like you can maybe get that monitor back o hadn't sardine it again. You know my ok good. I I dont have to be perfect that this y yeah and you know, there's some, I think, is really a beautiful thought around. It is it. This is real the awareness training mixed with some refocused training mixed with some non judge, metal training like those three things so them the moment in which you recognise that you're off the one thing at the moment to celebrate like low I've got. I just did it completely aware that I'm off from the thing I wanted to do so now? What I want to do here,
you always were always in control like we and do whatever we want, would arise right pretty much. So in that moment you can say you know what I wanted to bring it back to the thing or you know what no I want to follow our solve. I just want to follow where this thoughts stream is going. Yes, it would, when I've had my Mama most like unbelievable TM sessions. It's the first ten minutes, her gonna taxes coming back to the mind, we're gonna taxes going back to the next I've like ten through fifteen, unlike I'm starting to settle into my body in a way that I may be lost feeling in my arms, which is gonna, go becoming aware that maybe I can't feel where my legs are they cross or they're not cross. So I can't even remember and then in a great thing, there's five minutes of pretty much. I don't even know how to explain it, but I come out of it with an entire act of a screenplay written. You know something. I've been wrestling with forever.
It did not try to think of it, something some other hamster wheel inside was doing it and I dont know how that to me to experience that magic words like oh, my god, I know exactly what was to happen. I didn't created their coal consciously. I didn't created the science so Mine from this is a practice has been around twenty six hundred plus years. You know like best the best idea there. In the sciences: ridiculous, like the science that's coming online right now, there's your nineteen eighty. There was only a handful of research articles on mindfulness just a couple for the year in two thousand eight there was about a hundred and something so we got this flat line. You know and then two thousand eight bumped up a little bit in two thousand eighteen is over a thousand, and so it is really
clear. Hockey stick arc. You know growth exponential almost if you will about like what is actually happening from a scientific lens, from a mindfulness meditation perspective and for one people, the practice, marvellous, have an increased frequency flow state. The most optimal stated human can be an that's kind of cool yeah, yeah she's. So it's crazy good for your body and many many ways right, larger cortisol raids, your adrenaline. All these kind of things increases parenting behaviour. Now you were you brought up that not here today, but I heard elsewhere that nobody has trained they're mine right you, you do seminars, U S, folks, who has some formal training for their mind, or even that would me neither. I would say nobody very few very few in order to be safe here, like yeah the grand place, because his eyes is gonna, say you even when you said it. I was thinking boy. If I were in that audience in
he asked me, do I have any formal training for my thinking, not sure that I'd know how to answer in some ways I think I have through either a or those calgene red or whatever it is you know, or tea Maybe I don't know, but there are like, but I dont know, so what does that? does that mean and how do people get formal training for their thinking? It's really breakdown mine and in brain to all your at it? Yes, I wish you would be able to answer that question relatively easy. If I were to ask, have you done any formal training of your body, yet I have had a coach right right. I've I've gone to a strengthened fitness expert rent. Have you any formal training for your craft? I've gone to the studio, I've gone to this, you know acting
you have done. I didn't you say yes about those right right and then, when it gets alike, have you for my change your mind? Part of that is a little bit of a set up, because where do you go get it right, but there's only three things that we can train craft body and mind so what we learn from world class athletes and performers they're not leave that third letter, the stool at the chance you not most people are looking for. Is alignment or go back to that word again like when there's a complete invite and there's a believer ability like there's a person whether it's in your craft and art or something else, leadership in business or intimacy in a relationship like stand for something get those words and emotions body postures lined up so that it's like real? And I can't I don't know I've never stepped one day in a shoe of you know for an actor comedian like I don't really know, but I do know that what people crave
and they recognize it when they see it. Is that authenticity that alignment words like what is yes, that's it because I think we are mouser drawn to is confidence. This is the thing we most desire and if you can see someone fear sleep living there, authentic self, it's the most attractive thing, even if it's in its red. Yet even if its objectively, something new to say, I dont like when people do export z. When you can see that it's actually them, they just opened up their fuckin chest and let you look at it. It has a crazy power right, an confidence as a tradable skill. How does someone become com? This is something I wrestle with all I'm like. I imagined my kids, who are inevitably going to enter junior high and high school, and there's going to be this where it's like, I'm going to be trying to explain to them, you got a fake it to you, make it and it all. Your thinking and belief will catch up with your actions at some point, like that's a very hard concept,
isn't it the money not even be healthy, explanation of what evidence is, but now how do you work on confidence? Ok, I told the answer more ground yeah an eye so I want to say that I do this respectfully. Are you going to say you're gonna like I was like, maybe never say that phrase again like it vacancy you make it like. It's really bad. Is it take it easy? I get it. Only why one the research on it doesn't hold up ok, so let s start with the sides. Zaka sides right does work. Ok, ok proposes that science, you? U progress! That somewhere else are there are power poses, though, has about that's absolutely like mimic. Confident stances does musicality. Doesn't want or or LISA Research one held it up and I don't believe it well so that the idea of fake anything feels really wrong right to this other thing we're talking about,
his deep authenticity, purpose and meaning and you're not like the idea, hey fake it, and that's to me that's analogy to he get over on people turning to find out and by the way, what I'm doing that on off your full. I don't feel right, I'm lying to myself and lying to you that I got it together, but how about this year, teen you're in at the mall and you're in the food court in you see an attractive person, your terrified to go talk to them, but you have got to act like you are not terrified! That's the figure till you may get like. I dont know that you'll ever harness your adrenalin, but you must present at least some version. That's not freaking the fuck out! That's what I mean by fake it to make it so I would go on stream. Just one like one level: ok go up stream, it I'd, say: ok, where his confidence come from and it comes from only one place. What
say to yourself, that's it and what you say to yourself when it's credible build something that is sustainable. Okay, so confidence is this internal thing that we do to say? I think I can do that and I think I could go ask I think you know what I could you know what I can do that. So coffins comes from what you said yourself and it's gotta be grounded in something, that's real incredible, unbelievable or confidence again is like. I think I know do that right, like that's kind of a kind of a conference state and then but you're saying things yourself like I don't know, I don't know she's gonna say our boys are concerned, about idle. I don't know how this is gonna go. Well, that's actually like questioning their non statements. Their questions about the outcome conference isn't coming from their tax or confidence comes from the mechanical thing. Like you know what I'm a good human, I think I think about it.
You know really, I'm not. I'm really attracted to that human over there and what's the worst that could happen now, I'm asking a question the worst that can happen as avian see I can live with that. You know what I can do this. So as a credible engagement that explains the true evaluation. Yet so that's where conference comes from and now, if the person I can't answer the question like can I live with the failure of polish aha now so now we gotta go upstream again. The most dynamic humans are ones that they don't need this going to complicate about things worth it. Ok, if you say approve, along with you,
so trust us gonna go to trust, a pay, so trust of self interest of others. When I say that we're trust most people think about trust of others like do, I trust others right, ok, sure and trust of self is way more powerful. The idea that I can trust myself to figure out any condition in life is a very powerful place to be in life like what even the worst thing that I can imagine taking place like. Can you sense that you could figure it out and when you do than that, that's where you want to start somebody at the twelve year old like to learn how to trust themselves rather than trusting others, trust them so and then layer confidence on top of it. So how do you build trust of self? Do difficult things get right to the edge
of capacity, what you're not very good at it and then come back to your tried to your family and talk about it and then do it again and then get right to the edge make mistakes struggle heart rates up, back to the tribe, talk about it and then, before you know it, it's like this. This is almost like a balloon. The blue starts kind of small without attention and as you breathe new experiences, you know the capacity building, uncomfortable ass things, yeah the balloon gets bigger and bigger and bigger bare, and then you get to play a little bit more, it's not so refining will, I think, that's the did. This does get talked about a certainly on here. Does a lot, but yet this is the year. The fatal outcome of helicopter parenting is your denying your child, the confidence building the air like what I do. What I say is telling your kids, the great is useless, allowing your kid proved themselves. Their great is everything alone
can just say: you're great. You could be president fuck that you know any my Poli Sci are you? Are you all right or do you take the bait? Do you know you can't? No one could be fucking. President less! You got a pretty specific skill set now I'd love to provide you with that opportunity to go discover that skill set or work on it, but to me telling you you can do, that is a fucking lie. That's really good and science backside up as well like when you're gonna, coach, kids or talk to kids apparent them. You we wanted, A line are conversations up with things that their actual control of so they're, not in control of becoming a president or not right, but they are in control of things like effort and attitude and attention to detail and you know getting up after a mistake like the way they adjust to adversity. You not so it when we talk about those things with our young people, more often than outcomes like getting the job losses.
Learning from mistakes or whatever, then the king Gos, you not like. I can do that figure out things that are in my control and then back to that big word like agency, where people become agents they they are not victims of the circumstances, but they actually put themselves in positions of stay too diffuse there. We are supported by Roth ease the coolest most com the ball fund his shoes on the planet- also made from recycled plastic water bottles. Unity are so concerned about the plastic water, but also- and this is what a great down stream solution for that problem. What's the one you like, they like four kind or different silhouette? Yes, and I like the low for her to really cute, they have a bunch of different colors. I like classic black you're, very class guarantees, but they have really fun. Pranced are so comfortable the baby
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being we're one being great. All these things. Do you ever stepped back and take a global asked the global question: is it even a good pursuit because baked into it is comparison, there's no way to be elite or number one or anything without comparison, which I personally feel like is a brain cancer. So it is the right thing for us to do to try to be number one try to be the best or is the right,
thing for us to do find the thing we love process on an just fucking go bonkers on it and then you may end up somewhere. You want other people. Tell you whether night you're the greatest while time but is it is it? Is it healthy to pursue the leaked anything or number one? Anything, that's my kind of global question. This is your complete industry side, my mask in a very dangerous question potentially, but I try to be the best for your best time. That's the a good start, yeah right and I struggle with black and white thinking. I struggle with reductionism. I struggle with by an area anything he had this idea, that it is just one way with humans, because we are complex. Added its nuanced. It's wonderful, you know like it is hard. You know, like life is hard It is not easy, even when you have great command of your inner life
you're in a world. It's still challenging. Yes, ok! Now you only have better tools to deal with the inevitable problem. The problem is never going to be or the odd about what you could change that and say and set a problem. You could say opportunity or challenge like an end. It not be soft, like I'm not suggesting like posit psychology and life is the answer to I'm just saying in that frame like I don't think the problem, some things are like opportunities, oh yeah, the podcast that I have is that I just I don't know if this happened to you. I think you guys have your own pictures, but we grab the picture for a blog of the person we interviewed by now had a photographer come say: ok, Akashi. Twenty grand sure like this will then so is that this is a problem we gonna now turn into an opportunity can take some fun selfies with people right, yeah right granted until it over aways, okay, so the best or your best and distinction. What I've found is that the comparison model that you're talking about brink answers like.
Oh, I wouldn't have used those terms, but the idea that it is crazy making. Yes, so it is part of a deep question for people like what are you really trying do if you are really trying to be the best? It's going to be some consequences, some traps there's going to be some stuff. You gotta wrestle with, but dont say your gonna be your best when you're really trying to be the best get on us right right? I, along with yourself, and I would say what what I've learned is that people are trying to be their best and they're doing it relentlessly so and love the process and they really want to grow at a fast clipped, unlocking discover and experts or the nuances that they're trying to better understand that sustainable and it's not confusing when you get the trophy ro the recognition of the reward right. So because you are you, are you you're playing something that is deeper now, if you want to be the best there's theirs,
I'm just there does also challenges. If you're trying to be your best, you can get caught in this world that naivete know what other people are doing and like what what what world standards are yet can I give you one example: I'm nervous to bring this up because actually all I can and I would love to have a month, but unless it there was a documentary on Showtime about Kobe Bryant. Did you see by chance? I haven't, but I got some people have talked Loca is what he's done predict shorter right, so I watched it one of my best friends, Andrew Pinochet, watch it we had lunch. Raise. I see a documentary, my guy S, eyes, I mean that's how you Maybe that's how you accomplish your goals and that's how you that's, how you get into action? That's how you can have singular focused Babo over when I'm like it's interesting. That was your take away, my take away. Was this guy by my assessment, ruined his life for this?
you interviews, teammates. They say terrible things about em interview, people, Butscha Colonial. I don't think that got ever play these potential, but everyone loved him. He had a great time. His life has been fantastic and, I think, a while everyone, so fucking caught up in that blue ribbon that you would actually choose an unhappy life without tons of friends. Without me, but love in you, unlike in you and enjoy mean around you, for this fucking thing to say I was number one. So what on your death bed, you can type peacefully, knowing that you were number to me, I saw that document is the biggest cautionary tail. I've ever seen it mean you go hold I'll, be careful. What what's the costs to be a number one cause? I don't think it's worth it Dax. If you knew what I know about the pursuit of being world leading you, wouldn't you wouldn't be pushing your kids, I'm not saying you are, but if you knew what I knew like the dark side of that is, that venture is costly
and saw em right there. With your saying, you know, like proof, that being said, is that there is something incredibly stimulating about, unlocking and exploring potential Viet right, and you know for a concrete examples like if you're, the only person that his son, I don't the this, you say Everest share in your community you're, the only person ever done it. It's really hard to relate to people that they don't they the smells the sounds, the things that you experienced getting there at the top coming down. When not one other person, in your world, your small world or larger encircled influence like has browser. It's really does a loneliness to this. This is it. This is the astronaut syndrome, a lotta astronauts vagueness effort, yeah. They are right to be outside of our bubble
in view it in it. So unreliable now everyone else so there's the concept that we ve been playing with that This is something that has been ascribed or we ve bought for many generations, certainly in the western. World is that we need to do the extraordinary to be extraordinary. We need to do amazing things to be amazing, so we're I'm watching that flip right on it and the fact that you are bringing it up in this conversation is really. I love it, because what I'm watching happening right now and then I'll talk about like the tip of the arrow, the zero point, five percent. Is it a flip that model or say no? I need to be more to do more. I need to be me and you be be grounded. I need to be present, be authentic, be creative and from that place let the doing flow. Aha. So this I knew I need to do more to be more broken. You know much about Brody Miller, I dont know a bunch, but I have it.
The squire, yes, the sneer, then I have a little bit of understanding of who is from maybe a sixty minutes, peace they did on, and it appears to me and I could be wrong the back. I actually wants to ski his best He is in a bubble and sometimes he wins, and sometimes he loses he's after a perfect run. He's not concerned of someone as a more perfect run or less and he's done some pretty eccentric things on the two or as a result of this, but I look at it and I got a man them, that's who, if, if my kids were and sports and want them to model them else after is like he's on his own ride it in he's he's in pursuit of the perfect run whatever that means to him that doesn't require that other people he fallen to some hierarchy. For that to happen, he could have the perfect runnin, lose the race and be delighted. I think holy shit. If that, if you could be motivated with that kind of criteria that excites me, there was a run. A thing was
last limber games where and there's legendary stories about him in your how he operates so, but he gets down to the bottom of the room. These are the games and he has done. He puts it on the edge as his in life and on Skis and he gets down to the bottom, the famous horns or buzzing from the crowd. You know people a cheer and there's all that kind of stuff. That's happening at the at the embassy slides in and you seem gather himself and it's as if he's running the race that it just ran in his mind again and he's adding any nodding, eddies nodding and it's like you did it and then you see him, look up, that's so cool and he looked up at the top. Is time in the kind of scoreboard the leaderboard is up there. It is again like so it was to your point. It was a self reference. First, did I live true. Did I execute the game plan? What did I live? Basically, what the order I hold back and did I play it safe
in small, or did I go over aggressive because I was scared, or I didn't think I had would it took like? Did I run my true race? Did I run my my true life? It's an app metaphor for life. What I just described now I dont know body- and I dont know what happened in that moment, but me why, king in knowing stories of him from friends of friends and friends like amazing moment, and so what is that
one of my life to get very aspirational. You know I raised cars in the thing I enjoy about. It is for many folks out there they're trying to win the race. I M trying to do let's say Fond Fontana, it's a twenty three turn track. It is nearly impossible to go through all twenty three turns perfectly as you're supposed to do if a computer was driving the car. So for me the whole time, if it's our in thirty minutes in the car, I'm just like turn thirteen turn nineteen, while I'm driving I gotta come. I gonna break a little bit later and I got to turn into a bit earlier legal whatever it is, I'm only did the whole experience for me is internal of I'm. Just trying to get all twenty
three turns lined up perfectly, which almost can't be not or a couple elapse ata. Seventy, I do it, you know, and then that is accidently put me on the podium a few times, but it again- and I still do not later in life, where think it could be like Marvin, individual pursuit of my own personal perfection and I've just found that really pleasurable versus the times I've tried to go when things get those experiences. This flow state back to this it's a flow, you know, musicians, call it being in the pocket. Athletes call it being in the zone right, there's lots of phrases that they have tried to articulate that complete absorption in the present moment and when those moments happen, they are normally mystical like the mystics talk about a two, but there's a full animation of mind and body and action and
innovation and harmony of those three is not only a credible elusive but its incredibly freeing when it takes place and that that goes back to that signal to noise ratio. But though the noise and those environments are like what are they doing, what are their times? What are they? Thinking of me? What's happened with you know the engineering of why I'm slow on this or braking systems here and there, as opposed to signal which has me right here feeling the track in the track, feeling me and then figuring out the nuances, and you know, there's there's drivers that I spend some time with this ache in this when I'm in that space
the bottle caps on the outer shell, like have you seen. Some of that study are sure you know and like like the sea grains of the asphalt well again as you too bogged down in, but the ability of your brain to adapt to a hundred eighty miles an hour in a bank turn after a few lapse is astounding, like you can slow your world down within this thing and yes, as you use, you say, you're you're seen everything in your brains, kind of making some huge calibration to keep you alive and that scenario, and it's just a fun experiment of nothing else. School that you're into it. It's a forcing function for being present dangerous will in, and I acknowledge to like, even as I talk about Kobe Bryant or I talk about body Miller like I don't. I also recognise it. Kogi probably biochemical IE is Co. We Brian like Him guph around the block Roma be in good time, Charlie with his teammates. It wouldn't be pleasurable for him, for whatever reason you know he doesn't desire what Shack desired.
I'm I'm, I'm I'm assuming a lot of them to know a lot about them, but this is my arm chair assessment of, what's going on These you gotta. You got a kind of optimize. What you really are, too, which is something to think about right, yeah you mention early, you said like where I can remember how you put it, but it's like to be the best like that conversation or talk about and there's a part of it that I wanted to add, which is like a really big part of life is knowing how you want to be not just what you want to do. But how do you want to engage and be you while you are trying to do the minutes, that we have no only get fourteen forty a day, one thousand for forty minutes, today we are spending nine hundred, sixty of them sleeping you're like how do you want to do those minutes? Those moments in those
people that condition and train their mind to live in the present moment? More often end up experiencing in high performance, because that's where I prefer that's what performs takes place. The highest performance happens, and only in the present moment- and that's also were wisdom- is revealed, and so those that spend more time the present moment experience more of the richness and the texture of life. But our minds are why yet not like embarrassed that training conversation we're having who is actually train their mind? Where does one go for training for mine training? Yes, so people that have spent years to understand how minds work, and so these are, in my best opinion, licence professionals that have studied the theories and the strategies and the tactics and techniques and understand how the mind works and has the artistic skill to get you
as well to understand you, so how do you set a therapist by its like us are usually psychologist, doesn't have to be, but their formerly trained. None of those are the ones that are formerly therapist too. You know all that being said is that there are very mechanical ways that we can all train our mind. You can train confidence. You can train the ability to be calm, breathing training, confidence from self talk. You can train mindfulness right becoming more aware of your thoughts and actions. You can train optimism, which we believe is at the centre of mental toughness optimism. The belief is going to work out. If you believe it's going to work out- and you condition your mind to believe things- work out, then why not stay in it when it's hard? mostly wanna tardy jack, and they duties funny little things. I don't feel like I'm not trying to get on a puppet here, like We do this funny little things to say, give ourselves to save our self esteem. You know,
isn't this like this fundamental believe it's going to work out, it's not right now going according to plan. So what am I going to do if I believe it's going to work out on this day in it and that's really cool? So it's interesting to me, as I have never been person there. I didn't move the LOS Angeles and think I'm gonna make it that really wasn't my modus operandi. I was like I'm going to prevent a rig. A grat like I have to pursue this or I'll be mad at myself. I will feel like I let myself down. If I don't pursue it yet I don't think it's going to happen. I'm aware of the numbers, I'm aware of all these things. I was never optimistic about it, but low and behold and so I dont know what was your driver like what was the main driver? I get the regret peace, but then, when you got here, what what are your primary drivers level
I do it just once. I was actually out the part, because I thought this: I'm not. Can enjoy this experience if this is how I'm perceiving it all right, like the regret, based model? Yes, her yeah, like God, just preventing a regret or- being so ashamed of myself for not trying out. You know, I do start from a place of extreme negativity, just I think hard wired that way or trauma kid. Whatever. The reason is it's not really super relevant, but when times I have experienced optimism like you're talking about is what I've been directing movies and am, I know we're making the day that were always gonna make the day. That is never an option to mean that we're not going today when I make the daimio make the day? Is your gears was issued five scenes that day of ours is sunlight and you'll, be on many movies, that's where they lose the date they have to kick assigned to the next day or they kick it in a week later. I dont work that way, unlike we will always make our days, and I had one of these
moving alike. I actually learn some theme from you, even though I'm sixty like you can, will some stuff. I I witnessed you will some stuff, and I thought this is so weird cuz. That's not really me, like, I think, of myself as pretty pessimistic and negative, but let's go back to deconstruct just a little bit back to the thoughts words and actions like you believe that right, a hundred percent of your thoughts are like we're going to figure it out we're gonna figured out without some skill. Here your words were like yeah, ok, we're gonna win the day, and then your actions were to back it up, maybe had a movable, fast or mail. I have some animation your pastureland Ford, on pushing valleys on yeah helping people grab- cable, yes, what's about so, though, so that that, for me, goes back that thought words and actions Emma were round people like that, it's so stimulating its gilded ages, Riah And- and it can also be benevolent as well right. It can also it can. It doesn't always have to work in this.
Wonderful way, you can be a good economy on the other side of things to get out and about one bright, the sick and so on. But that idea that we line things up in that respect is, can just for sure. Yeah and the science is not clear there right, but I feel I want on switched on environments like yeah and, like we start birds unfastening with how birds move and like you ve seen a big flock. Birds like an like one sends a signal and then they all dip in shift, and then The one sends a signal and they all loop and flow, and so I don't know how far off we are from that, but we find group flow
man I love being than those environments? Yet there was there. Was I read some recently. I can't remember what book it was and what it was about. Bad was about Spalding that the ones that huge flocks- and they all move there was injures is all I know is that it was a breakdown of the brain can't like. But if you boiled down a conservatives and liberals to different points of view, the conservative is very concerned about the individual traditionally and the liberal is very concerned about society or the group, and they were saying you can't think of both at the same time. Basically you get, you can focus on one or the other. Any did their example was looking at a big flock of birds. If you look at the individual bird within those flocks, they're doing something unique. Yet if you zoom out, the entire flock is doing something coordinated, so it's kind of
at odds with itself. You know it. Both things are happening at the same time, that's kind of what your striving for in it. Some kind of healthy democracy is like someone's work watch out for the individual someone's watch out for the flock in some out. We can make all this happened. Idealistic yeah, yeah, I'm not in my head, sounds were right, sounds so wherever we go down and one or the other viewpoints, but I dont know if families work that way. You know so of communities. You know I don't have tribes work that way in the ideal sense here: but this is one of the reasons why I think people are attracted to small communities of people that are trying to solve something that mission minded approach from a military spurt perspective or sport or the extraordinary Moon mission that people, you know were fortunate to be part of like they talk about how extraordinary that
I'm in their life was because people are working towards something in a chaotic harmony sometimes, but there was that alignment also going back. Ten optimism, really quick. I do think if you live your life, would some element of it will just work out. You subconsciously are making moves to make that happen, whether or not you are saying them out loud. I think, because you ve set the standard for yourself thing, you're doing sort of things, so I got all the lingua bias guerrilla. Give your convinces, I'm gonna work out. You look for all the things proving it won't work, whereas if you believe it's gonna, you look for you, you, you see you spot all the things that confirm it will work. I guess for example, for me, I I feel like I'm always gonna have enough money. I just always M going
to have enough, so I think with that mentality, I am subconsciously doing things to ensure that I do have enough. It doesn't make sense so confirmation viruses like finding the thing. The opposite is another way to look at what you're describing the people that are anxious. They actually live in a more dangerous world because their finding things to demonstrate that they're not crazy. Their findings confined in interpreting things. So your model, like that, I'm gonna, always have enough money, would be a basic statement about your ability to earn your ability to not spend frivolously there. So it doesn't mean that you're going to be a billionaire now. It means that you understand how to take care of yourself in a modern society and not be above your means, so that you're not like no that's a general kind, of course, statement or belief system that you hold of yourself,
which would actually be here's a very fancy phrase, part of a person who has high self efficacy, so efficacy as a scientific phrase for power. Yeah like it does it's not your statements on about me right, but it's just funny. I would not. I am not doing those things purposefully, I'm not saying like ok, so I'm gonna be careful here this month or that you, but I think I am doing those things subconsciously, because I've set a standard for myself that I'm gonna have enough musically. So I think if you like, set some things
your brain, sometimes than you, your actions, will sort of follow that or maybe not. Maybe that's not me that scary to say cause them boats it some it's a little pop psychology that thought yeah ends, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means we can't quite find the evidence, but look you would. I think you would recognise if your teaching a child, how to shoot a hoop shoot a basket that we wouldn't want that person we wouldn't coach them and say to them it wherever you do. Just don't miss right. We right, we would say, a focus on the back of the room here, it like see it going in like we would say that. Why is that? Because we create some images in her mind, read that our body tries to figure out how to make those images work. It's a little pop psych, I'm telling it though this is where I get on the fragile over from science. I go, but I don't need
a lot of evidence, because I know that it works. That way for me to re, regulate this fun thing that parallels that in I also race off road which is in the desert in there they rule there's two rules and off road racing, which is, if you come around it turn, and you are headed straight for a bolder. You have to look at something, so look at them, other yeah. Do you build your body and want yellow bad to steer the older to make sure you don't hit it, but you will end sure that you're gonna hit it. If that's what you're staring at. So it's like it's it's this week, muscle memory. You have to force yourself to redirect if you're going to hear you're going to hit it, but you don't need to be looking at it. You know so, but when you made quickly when you look somewhere else sub some miracle happens and you end up there. We don't know exactly how works right. There's always some scientists that there is some research love me with it has been sorted out, but were not there yet, as far as I know, but I'm a thousand gonna go. If I asked you to proceed with our kids, we see it in off
set off road outgrown racing. Yet there, the other principle is, is when in trouble full throttle. It's like scheme lean, going back you're out of control like there's a lot of there's a lot of those things in sport and life as well be aggressive. You take a good chop at this at the ball, rather invisible, rather than hesitate, you know like yeah, we, we coach those things as well the owl very counter intuitive in some way against your instincts. In the moment, tat we took a couple of what I would call candy. So when you worked with Felix is its public knowledge at his specific issues with he was claustrophobic. Yes, he was about four years into the project.
The whole project was being scrubbed and they had all the technology and places you is. Fitness was on point that all the bright minds in the room and he just couldn't figure out how to stay in the suit long enough, and so he was creating a claustrophobic response to being in the space. Ok, I can really relate to this. I feel like I, I dont have a lot of phobias. What claustrophobia is one of them? So what was your lake? Where do you start. Well, I mean I could give you the specifics of it, but in general, where we start is like what do you want? And that's that's a big question. You don't like if you answer that question for yourself in life right now, cuz that was a a moment of crisis You know, but if you're not a moment of crisis- and you ask yourself like what do I really want to mine and then and then get honest with yourself, so it started their cause. Maybe he needed my help too
out of the project's sure. Maybe he needed my help. You know to go further into the project, but we had to start their yeah and discipline. Again, but his response was in in a nutshell, like it'll, be more painful for me to walk away from this project, then it would be to go into the project and die. I would rather go and die, but I literally dont know what's happening that I can't stay in the suit that I need to be in right and so is willing to do whatever talk to unlock that, and so then we just got so the psychology like how to train his mind to unlock that conditioned response to his suit like disconnect it to go. To embrace it or to embrace a yet to embrace it shows it like. I have over very thin understanding of what I think is called immersion therapy or, as is like oh cd folks, will they fear something, though make them go? Handle trash, like literally go through a dumb stir. This kind of thing is it
is it in that same world at all, yes, or that the model is flooding or systematic? Desensitization immersion is as an ice phrase for it, but the science is the first thing that we do. Is you build a model, but just make it simple and say it's one to ten so a one on this model. Is it's like steps of intensity? So one is low intensity, tennis, high intensity, so ten is being is holding the snake? Ok, And a one is thinking about driving to the place where you might hold the snake, her ok yeah and then an eight is like walk in there and you see the agony. Ok, so you build this model of intensity, the fear response, and then we get really clear on what that you know mixture that that's right and calibrate the accuracy of it. Then we pull off for that. And back feel any of the psychological skills, the mental skills that will help you or the person be in control commander themselves in those moments
This is a directive that yeah so then. So what does that mean? Decent breathing training? They were going to himself talk, training, we're gonna, preacher awareness of yourself talking you're breathing. So that's mindfulness we're going to have some strategies and tools that you can use your mind to actually bite down or relax. Even myself bite down my credit out to stay in it and then eventually get to relaxation we're going to use a concept of a locus of control that listen you're in control of yourself, and you don't have to go to the next level, but you can't control what the snakes going to do right. So this is about controlling you and then we met commitment. The person makes a commitment that, as we start the progression and we're in level one that we don't get to go to level two until that person has full command. So what happens for most people is that they get somewhere on that track that one to ten tracking woods mullet, they see
a spider, they see the snake if you are and what do they do they take no right and every like the full flight, fright freeze mechanisms in our body in our brain activate, and then we leave so now. What we ve just done is paired an awful internal experience with the spider outside the snake were use a segment, and then we run away from it. So now we strengthen that responds, so we make the commitment that you're not gonna leave. You can use all the psychological tools that we ve been working on and you're gonna exercise and train them prior to getting into those into these conditions. The level eights level, tens and you're here to stay until you figure it out, but you know how to get to a level nine budget
data level ape right, ensuring leaving that's that's what it's about. It's kind of baby steps riots likings also again back day, it's a little one day at a time to look at the thing in front of you. You must learn to shut your mind off from the future from broadcasting into the future, projecting into the future right. If you can really keep an incremental people can kind of do incredible things yeah- and I was you said, the important part of that aspect is training. The mental gills training thus goes ahead of time. So it's not just rusting somebody at the edge of the cliff, that's afraid of things they figured out. Yeah I'll, see you later here. You know it's like forgiveness. Skills are breathing and self talk and awareness of that. Like all more morbid version of this, as I read this fastening book on killing of you ever heard of the boat Grossman,
do you have a failure? So those are the whole history of of guys enrolled were one they would find dead and they are holding their guns and they had not never fired it. This is when they discovered always thought of this binary response to fear being full of flight or fight, but really is the animal kingdom. Ninety percent of complex or resolve with posturing and submitting right. Yes, your way more wiring to either submit when someone postures or posture and that person Smith's in their name what they figured out that when these soldiers were running from trench trench, their brain reptilian brain was seen. Posturing, they heard a loud noise and then the response was to submit to freeze, like don't, kill me, I'm freezing you win and so through training and they track. They have dad on all this by Vietnam. They figured out how train these guys to fire, no matter what,
it started civil war, oh ok, the civil war part of the first war like to your point that they found the bandits like the rifles on the with like three four bullets, and yes, is it. There was an overview in response to seeing your cousin. Aha, to seeing the human that looks just like you yeah, and then there was a little bit about removal immoral to. But there were some listening that there were also engaging on, if I remember correctly, were making them the other yeah objectified yes and then went to jeer instead of practicing shooting against Hey bells, there are practising against, like things that looked like humans, right right, desensitization too, like killing yes right now and then also just establishing muscle memory in response, so that when you're thinking those offline, which was a great pointing out like at a certain blood pressure and heart rate, yours, your brain shifts from from
hello thinking to mid brain reptilian, brain and now you're, not really making decision sure, like an instinct mode. It's the that. I love that you know like that. The nuances of how the mind, and brain or working together. It so fascinating is because it has. It got relatives because all humans have a desire to retroactively understand. Why have done things so giving a piece of the puzzle like that you're gonna go back in your memory ongoing! Oh yeah! That's why, when that Bali was doing this, I that's weird. I run off. I just fuckin froze yeah you're, like you, ve only been presented two options. Will what did I do you? Are you not to make sense of that? Yet, unfortunately, submission happens more than we think right more that people want to talk about, because fight is in some ways, cool sure sure, acceptable, you're running away is like. I took the high ground, but freezing in some mission. Submission is like rolling for in showing your underbelly, yes and so
there's a does a social acceptance or deference that comes with that, but it's at the cost of dignity. Again, yes, you know when it blew my fucking mine in and I was like a wild. This is the aspect of the need to combat no one's talking about. We are watching a story on tv about the owner of this chain of restaurants in New York, and he had some allegations against him. This morning, at woman was explaining what happened to her in the car, which was she got in the car with her boss. He leaned over to kiss her and maybe touched her boob and she froze, and when I was saying, is the guy's a creep, but what I never considered in my life of someone who pursued women is that I might not get any signal they might freeze out of fear of this situation and I dont there's no signals to really go on then that's. It does need to know that I dont know that I'm expecting either. No. Thank you
move away. I don't want to kiss you know somebody verbal, maybe something even nonverbal physical, but I've never considered. Someone might just freeze, and I think it's a high percentage of people that just free spell. Yeah. I mean it's a real brain strategy in order to deal with something that is threatening yes, but something wrong with the the other person in that experience. That doesn't recognising the fairy like just to say that, like if you can't figure out nah not talk about you Duxbury. I ll give you can't figure out that someone is like completely rigid. Ah, you know like theirs it. There is a predatory nature about that. That is still its net, showing fear an environment where you're trying to breed intimacy- and somebody is totally rigid. That's a good sign that they're not excited to keep going forward. Yes, ok, but just
just to be provocative and hypothetical, I could see you leaning over to kiss a girl and she's kind of still any girl, like oh she's, never done before she's confused about what she supposed to do. Next, I do not know so she doesn't want to just oh. Maybe this is new fur I mean not in this scenario is like await rooms, thirty years old, whatever, obviously not that situation, but I don't like to sixteen year old or something I could see where you'd fill in the blank of something that was wrong right, but then could just say if you're starting to feel like something a little something you can just say is tat ass. You do a quick, she would do not gonna ruin. It wouldn't hurt us to. Let kids know that she's a response. Look at just something: you're, not you ve not been warned about you're. Not thinking now sixteen year olds doesn't have that lair that trouble power.
I now ask you know that you know there's that part two you're you're right. I think it's like I've never had the thought that it would be important to talk about. That is a natural response to stress, but it is actually meant to be a response to threat. Not just stress stress would be more about a flushed face and then threat is like attack, or freeze, submit yeah, you know, and so I think, evolution airily right freezing most animals have bad eyesight within a few, don't move. They can't see. You like this really well worn reason that that you, your basically has been dead, still and hopes that they lose sight of you, and you know, I think that you can also map back to when you were a child and say what is my natural response when you for the sound under your
better in your closet, like what did you do? Did you jump up and go see? Did you did you run away from it or to get really quiet and stop breathing? You know like what, like what she'd over your magic sheet over your head, yeah like what so that would be a little bit more like freeze, maybe it's a little bit of a fleet what it? What did you do? I think I definitely foes more of the like just be yeah. There's all she had an amazing plan in her head. Tell me: yeah lay as bad, but I never executed, and I had plans that like if there is a kidnapper I could tell there is somebody in the house I would get under my bed and then and then attach myself to the trying to frame of the bed so that when he looked under eight see emptiness, but I was really in there. Just hang to the top, and what do I have a cigar, but still, I still think like a work, sounds about right now to love, to put it to the test
some every last question for you just you obviously do you do work, but you ve done work with a limping ends. You don't work with the sea hawks. You done work with with Felix for the rebel stratus. You also do work with companies right like you with Microsoft. So when you go to companies what what is it that your expected to help them with okay, so there's a little bit of back story is that coach, Carl and I head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. We are heading into our first super bowl, where the hallway one day at the training centre, anything any comes up like super animated starting us might. Can you feel it yeah, and he was talking about the culture like how alive the culture was. How many noses were pointed in the same direction and the real work? The difficult challenges were happening and it was like the good stuff and without hesitation. He says: do you think anyone outside what would be interested in what we're doing
without hesitation said? Let us write it down. So what does that mean like he wrote down, wrote like he was back of a napkin. Almost right he's had four the years in sport, and I had twenty years in sport and his is about how do you a line and create the methodologies to support a culture where people can flourish and culture based systems and ecosystems there, and then myself is really about. How do you train from a psychological perspective, the people that want to be their very best, how to the condition and train their mind? Yeah, and you put one one together and it felt like. I was eleven like it was just super dynamic, and so he wrote down put them together, credit a short little list of like how we would do it in another environment and then leave out some of the but the story. But we had a conversation with safety in Adela, the CEO of Microsoft and these four recent, whose job it is like menaced. These. These are the same principle
purpose and meaning and flourishing, and conditioning when mine, to be open and learn and progressive in the way that, if they organise their into the life of their own or life, to get this harmony in and just radical work ethic to go, be mission minded in life, and so they have a hundred and eighty. Sixty sixty hundred eighty thousand people that report up to the tea. Oh I'm sorry or me personally, fuck that that's. The last thing I want to worry about is a hundred new events. Reading your nearly president of a country or each outrages, and their mission is beautiful to help every person and organisation the world achieve more, like they're they're, really about it, and so on. Is that turned into full day trainings that we are offering people- and I was coaching up at that point- some Libyans and Sport Sykes to help with the mission to help them ends. Eventually, we had, we ve reached thirty thousand people
at eight hours, a person they ve committed over two and forty thousand human hours to train their minds so that the people and their organisations The commander themselves work better together or can be mission minded your can truly a purpose and meaning and flourish in life, and so eventually what they taught us to do is to, and they showed us how to do. It is to build an online curriculum, and so now inside of Microsoft, we ve got this online training and then, for the first time ever, we ve brought that out now into a public access, and so it's available it's an eight weak online course or anybody Now. Let me ask you a really simple cynical question about that. I totally understand people wanting to change their life, which is very hard to do. You know for me to life or death stakes for me to be willing to change. I can see doing it for a super bowl trophy again.
doing it for a gold medal. If you're going go to staples and try to get that team fired up about the mission is isn't much harder to get people to want. The outcome of like we had a self six percent more office supplies this quarter at its heart. Nor right, that's us Ethical S, real or by the reason people changes, pain rights. The reason people grow is because again uncomfortable and help people get uncomfortable is really hard. That's it that's a very difficult thing to do where, if you again go back athletics for a minute is that the whole day is designed to get uncomfortable like to get up to the edge so that you can really learn, grow, ok, so to go into the business frame and says even Microsoft, those people have a potential to have stock that'll be worth fifteen million. and there are even there there's a huge care whether there really is yeah and all that beings
add, is our first assessment of in a movie. The first thousand people we work with is that they're working as hard as humans can work they're about as tired as humans can be, and that is painful so addressed the pain you know like hey. What is this like? Here's observation, what's happening so the so we did that deep work and it started was sought to the sea. the way upstream and he stopped in or to four days with his Your team to say it. Let's get our philosophy are individual personal philosophies right, let's figure out how word defining high performance and successful ways of for ourselves. Let's train ourselves from a mine for this approach, and you know that these on public record, he he just wrote a book, sought to read a book, and this is sound like I'm, then a break for minutes. I am, I do us, but like he put us it put pages four five and six of his book
about how is switched around that culture he's done it. Not us yeah he's done it and he's done it. You might be the most significant ceo of modern times like what he's done is right. and so he made this beautiful commitment that we ve been fortunate to be part of the actually train. They do some of the most hard working brilliant people in high tech right now The present moment more often. Well, here's a counter intuitive thing again and I was forced to learn through sobriety, which is at least a programme in demands that Socrates number want, because without sobriety, there's no family without sobriety, there's no career, thus rather's nothing. It is literally the foundation for all that which can come on top of it, and I imagine, is hard to convince people who are very inclined to work hard and work a lot to. Let them know that if
you take care that outside human, the you everything can be built on top of that, in fact, there is no real flourishing unless that humans taken care of before the employ. That's exactly it in one of them. I think most powerful once we get after, is that when somebody walks away with its an online training or in person- and they say this is why I love working at microsoft- is because this type of engagement, I'm better. Can it be better? Were yes, but on better now I feel like I can be a better parent, better lover, better spouse, ya, but a friend, it's not complicated. The mind is complicated, yeah, the brain which is different than the mine. The brain is the tissue. The brain is complicated, But the idea like to organize your inner life to have great command into organ. You're out our world to have some alignment its. It is not that overwhelming now to practice it on,
regular basis, day in and day out, whether its optimism, confidence, breathing mindfulness recovery. You know, that's one of the kind of core pillars is like: do you recover properly elite sport? We talk about recovery way more than we are working hard as you know, what's happening right now, though, is the hustle hard mentality, I'm so fatigued by because in the light of our modern, fifty percent someone else's work, and so you better work too, like oh, my god, it does that's, not sustainable and it's not fulfilling right. In also recall, we talk a lot about the the art and science of recovery. Now. Well, Michael, your fascinating. I'm really glad you came in entire value this. You say that everyone. Now, though, we may do, then, is adding another hang. You know this has been a really good experience, Are we to get out of our trade? Have you come back
and now my favorite part of the show the fact check, with my soul made Monica bad men, I wanna go check setbacks, Amano, GOAT, the facts and another backed down in another backs down. Monica jagged backs: hey did you undertook to do a month ago? Checks backs Monaco Jake's backs. That was great. Two different folks recommended. That's all. I can't believe we have done a year. I wondered if that was it from your own. Brain fell to good right to be just something that I came up with a balloon. Is it ok? I didn't say that while I ve been really kind of stumbling my way through some of the most recent one, so it would be. You know it totally be understandable that I've got that from
somebody. Ok, here we go, yeah was from Instagram and with someone who's account name is why arm d be why aren t you bird, oh yeah, I only say yard. Where do you, I always cold chicken yard bird you ve hurt me said Otis, Maybe this is very moist yard Bert. I said that on Sunday, after mother prepared the moist chicken in years you did your bride, couldn't here over. The sound of your own, true, I gotta know, is very tasty. Ard bird, you are masticating yard burden of the people with me, so would have been driven out window if they were not. I was well anyway. Thank you. Yard bird yeah now stick to their script, exactly how they were hoping, I would say, and another one gone and another one gone. Monica checks, the facts: hey she's, gonna check you to monitor checks, the facts
guy. What kind of work tat still where there was a nice, and I bet they couldn't belle- that's our dispatch. How would you even for a billion dollars? Do you think you? spell that, in a way that someone be other, read it yeah and know what to do it. You would probably right it s why I now and the news came riding a soccer it out in that concludes my gold you're worried. Now. I just think what have we never got any effect? Oh I'm so glad I decided is
big big blunder again on our part we keep doing. I would have liked you to say you have to say ok boy but we're owning them, we're owning them as quick as we can in real time. So you know it's funny, because I listen back to it and I was like why did that slip pass me because I know whose thirsty Boston is from six million dollar man, because I watch that show tat. He was played, of course, by Lee Majors, who was also the fall guy, which was my all time. Favorite show anyways in fact take like it's kind of theirs. Oh set up for you just opposite. You go stone, cold, Steve, Ass, Paco, yeah, stone, cold Stevenson. You go, I know him then I got all yeah. Ok, because for the peoples just listen. They don't need to hear a whole ten minute thing about why we talked about they just heard it take out no Emily's explaining why I didn't catch. It is like it for me. I hadn't just listen to it permanently!
rise or ugo. Stone calls divorce and I just went straight till I oh do you know who he is and then we have a conversation lessons we would now we're not now yeah did he says six million dollar man. He did ok, that's when I didn't hear. Nor does that show that title of a show, prime mean anything to you know I do know because they mentioned and on friends I wouldn't have. I said I would have heard that I may not have put two and two together that it was the same person involved. Have that name it does. But the question is called take his name from the six million valley there. Always if we ever meet him, we should ask him I didn't know he said and I then, after when people were getting upset, I thought, oh, maybe everyone just assumed like how do people know which Steve arson he's talking about, but he didn't say the tanner shell, yeah, ok yeah, but it's a t wrestling is a tv show sure is worthy of ease, its ignoring no yeah. I've had that case any who that was one just time now is one of people were outraged
by the way you was really funny. I will say it was a poignant moment for me because really the outrage, it was your mistake. It's me I didn't read, it is outrage and I actually had the awareness to see this like soil as reading about it in a lot of people are vocal about it and I realise, when it was about you, I was able to just see like other pointing out like hey. You should know that use actually talk about this, but when it's my mistake- and I read all those comments- I think they're outrage- I have like a moment, whereas I all it feels differently when it's about Monica than it is about me. That's interesting like when I should the bet on the Mormon thing in your red nose. You parliament, see them as direct attacks on me as much as I did war, except it depends on what we're talking about, like Steve Arsenal. Think people care that much about people's relate, although it's probably some people love the wrestling. As you have heard some people, it was not the six million dollar man. Maybe I don't know I don't it's. Hardly matters can, but when you're talking about something serious like the sex,
when I'm about to say oh there's another one Charlottesville, this was an atom polyzoa, so you say Charlottesville South Carolina. Ah it's some spill, Virginia whoops and then I do a whole fact than I like give facts about a Carolinas law. Rerolling I'd. We really only butted NEA starting with my misunderstanding here and there we built more misunderstanding on top of it: yeah yeah. So you don't. We are there re sorry about that yeah. So I guess you know my views when I think of Charlottesville. I, the first thing I think, is not Charlotte North Carolina. That's where my head goes and pay the current trend. Remember the name of Charlottesville. I stopped first said Charlotte North Carolina, then you know assignment in North Carolina its South Office, Virginia yeah yeah. So
will the media. That, though, is definitely Jews will not replace us right. I think that's the Messiah people in South Carolina pal. I don't feel like it's fair that they are made worse. Possible for something we're evil. They weren't they didn't do now. Ok, walled, I will just say too that bomb, nor were the people in Virginia. So it's not like you, No one's ever saying that the state of Virginia these people travel from all over the country to come, be a part of that that's right at fundraiser. Whatever was it, though we did fear, we did seem ignorant. Then we were we were, and women were now we can do is correct or mistake. I we're talking fast and loose, and you know how things are going We're gonna think gallop the real I'm listening to a lot of ours. You are, many. I had our lot of ours and things slip through the
We'll becomes our white noise at a certain point right, try not to let it there. Clearly, it does sometimes believe link had studies, were they prove that the people watching those secure. reminders that no one can actually pay attention to those tvs. For, like more than forty minutes or something you some statistics, then I'm not making an exact claim and I wanna get yelled at me. You get the point of making yeah, so I have to imagine the same goes for my voice in you hear how? How much can you really hear of it and still pay attention attend? Well, to ensure all really it's just that I can't sit for five hours like I have to be doing other things too, and sometimes it from doing something else and my I lose my attention, You are diagnosed me if I'm all data, but I have to multi tat year.
I wish I was pitching a plan for you just gotta annoying. I realize I sounded annoying when I was doing is very hard to suggest to somebody like a time management strategy. It feels very like a personal attack. Doesn't it isn't you like a personal attack? but it does feel like our own modal noise. No, you don't understand, but unless you're doing that same thing, how could you really know how to manage that? Well, my argument was: why don't you just do one hour blocks see do an hour of editing and you do not look at your phone and then you'd. Take fifteen Manson. Look at your phone than you do another hour block a just war
I'm thinking out loud that you might do both things faster. If he did it that way, tat can be done. As I was saying, I realize if someone was trying to manage my time for me, I would be pretty defence over triggered her boy, I'm feeling controlled. No, I don't, I don't think you're trying to control. I think it is China, be helpful, always air of yet to try to do one thing that was aimed at hurting your feelings or destroying you here I mean come on I'll, do it it's in the future too. I haven't yeah yeah they're, just there's no point even having this conversation, because there are too many factors and is too many things that are, and that are not interesting for people to hear right right. But thank you for that suggestion here. You know people do like hearing about sex tinge. They do you think so
look, don't you think Amelia? That's what that's why everyone, so I'm so interests in talking about Gaga Coop on the Academy award, see that Leveluess Exchange Sex Antennae, in your ear, my imagination, man's amounts out of college chemistry, because I don't know of its extension. I know nothing about it, but lotta yeah. You got Rosalie palpable, like home, Jim Tinge like there. Well, so we we knocked out those two old facts. Wherever you're bribe me some in this one's uranium. Just prepare yourself, you, I guess that's the headlines. Hey we ve, not our aim, rhubarb now or not perfect, even even like with the safety mechanism of a fact ill. It makes me a little sympathy
till I news outlets, they're fucking, getting it wrong, kidding they're, giving information out twenty four hours a day. I now, which is fine. If you get it wrong, but you just have to own it. That's the power it gets. Tricky or people are just saying, lies purposefully, mainly were not saying anything purposes, They were vibrations in accident. That's true, but people will savings to tried to coerce people in the thinking. So bang and then they don't own that moves bacon is so vague. Yeah yeah, ok, Michael drove a euro is great. Oh, I wish I were. I was thrilled yeah you so fine and somebody that, while be wild, went out and procured on his own while he met him before I was on Michael rose and bombs path
inside of you and he was wild by him and brought him and our fault beyond those great yeah. He was very smart. You know I'll eat, he passed the task. As you know, anyone like that. I'm a little bit cynical of out all well parties. Can you really instruct people on how to be more efficient or you know, optimize their performance? Is that real? Can one person talk some one into optimization? So I'm always like fifteen percent of me, is like this persons, a shyster kind of how he felt about life. Coach I'll, extend that even then about psychologist psychologists were claiming that they can guide. You talk. PETE performance seems a little interesting. Suspicion, tat comes in all that to say, after, like forty men staring into his eyes, I might not disguise legitimately yeah yeah. I totally disagree.
That's crazy, yeah! I think that you can definitely impart positive attitude. I think that's really the war, near training, your brain to for positive thinking, but I think the most poignant topic that was covered was actually how one finds their purpose is. Wavin tell I mean the biggest bigger problem, probably other than actual eyes in your goals. Is that so many people dont know what their goal is? I think that's the most ubiquitous patent problem yeah. Oh, that's neat that he has that part of the equation. Tat there is a lot of sex Can you tell here between Michael and oh really say that he was very Q, yeah, yeah yeah? Of course, of course, because there's extractive waste, because everything I turn every single conversation into something about, looks or sags right and
I'm fine oh yeah. Did we relating there are steps for finding your purpose? I kind of feeling our mothers performance psychologists, but I have some like simple guidelines. I think I would bum urge people to think about. One of them is, I would just be the thing I would be mouse, conscious of during yourself. Reflection of what your purpose and goals are is. Are they stand motivated? I think, if you start by weeding out goals that are
Golly status, oriented, that's a good start to find an actual purpose, that'll be fulfilling. If you accomplish it, yeah absolutely, but I don't really think that's the problem. People had like. I think some people really had just a problem figuring out what they're going to be do a passionate about here I don't know. A part of me wonders if passion is something that we like placed on. That's not fully necessary for a purpose. Norbert Emmy buddy you weren't, k through twelve have classes were they were like islands, this whether was pottery or well dean or didn't you know any number of things and, by the way that the purpose doesn't have to generate income regenerate now anything right so clearly out of the fuckin onslaught of options they give. U K through twelve right of all the different topics. You get your seat.
You got your Jim now hear your damn all this shit, one of those things sticks out to people. Maybe you now yeah probably, but I think there is in the majority of people had a class daylight dear, but that doesn't necessarily always give you purpose that, even if you follow that thing like sometimes that fizzles out or that becomes not fun for you any more also purpose, in my opinion, like the people that have a tough time are people
who, just Joe no, what their day to day is gonna, be an that's what I mean by purpose, but you need a reason to get up. I think I think there needs to be some thing happening in your data day. That makes you need to wake up and do that thing, and even if it that thing is not something you're crazy about it, still something that you have to do somebody's holding you accountable for it. I think that's a really important. That's interesting, so different perspective on it now.
Well, then, I would have had fifteen years ago, which is I dont, have many if any career aspirations anymore in so my getting up, is I'm literally trying to have fun like I hadn't seventh great? That's all I'm tryin to train a right dirt. Bikes with my friends, I'm trying to be with the kids make me feel that way, having friendships and mean social and having a game of Thrones Party makes me feel that way like. I have now gone off of what I'm trying to accomplish, and now I'm just trying to capture, but it is well viewers old again for the rest of my life re, which has that's my purpose yeah, but I dont think you would be able to have that unless you, if, unless you learn holdings, is that its accomplishment not the right? Were it literally be every day you have to go, walk your neighbors doll. It doesn't have to be some massive accomplishment. Some career go, but there needs to be a reason
Murray is something for you not do I freely hired exactly you do that you have children and people that require that, but also anonymous. The party. That's my thing. I gotta get up son or miss the party and I'm gonna, I'm gonna manifest the party. It's gonna be a party whether we go to a funeral or wherever re timed party are ready. But is that what the fuck, what is it you're a relief who's been sitting here? Why is there really from my lazy boy if your mother Fucker, with an ear egg broken. This is a clue about who has whoever stealing our in the water in their ear and then they're using
drink relieved to get it out. Why is that in my leg is deaf? I not your now. I was looking for my chewing tobacco. Oh some trade issues, much tobaccos possible since I'm quitting after the ranch wraps. Ok, it's a good. It's a lofty goals that have tried. Ok Gray ignores my skins peeling off right now I didn't notice. I dont know whose filming yesterday on the ranch in MID way through, I knows only fuckin skins, PR, the brow ridge. I can't himsel grow some years and I am knowing, if you didn't like me as much- and you just saw me at starbucks- you ain't gonna, guys, Brow Ridge, Dandler ever say that tell you, people would say is like that person has sexual attention, the with the barrister in his skills, peeling off that guy with a skin, then feeling up he's too hot for as long as you yeah sexual ten issues. Ok, I haven't done any facts, yet
so you favour kind of you said sports psychology is niece. Now I tried to find how many sports psychologists there are in the United States and I could not find it so I think that means it is knee shipping so because there would be some statistic about. It also look just think about the people that require a sport, so called it's not like if you're weaken call for you need, because your psychology, our weak antennas, where's you're, talking about only professional athletes, would meet one right well or member. They used him in Microsoft.
sure sure homicide, but some words like all these are to become visible at the Olympic Games in nineteen. Eighty four zero. Oh, I think, Sir, when the olympic teams began to hire sports psychologist further athletes and in nineteen eighty five in the U S, team employ their first permanent sport psychologist for the summer, limping ninety, ninety six, the? U S already had over twenty sport psychologist working with their athletes, won t in ninety six alma, but the number three hundred now probably every athlete, has their own psychology. May they should a media. I now saw me those things are fuckin all mental like there and do whatever their body can do and then some days they can't jump days, they can its share. It's crazy mine fuck. It is a bunch of sex tat with their own mind, may do ok, red Ball Strata House. He said he jumped two hundred and thirty thousand p.
Twenty eight thousand one hundred fee orca K, weaken round well yeah I'll read both status was a space diving project involving Austrian Skydrive Felix Baumgardner. On October fourteen two thousand twelve Felix flew approximately thirty nine clamours into the strategy o whoever wrote this is european and because they rode on fourteen October to love and well, I had to do some fast changing my brain was quick. Iranians prevail, you, but they wrote. Kilometers could be canadian to love the canadian backside. Thirty nine com is that you that's a good joke is universally. The Canadians are loved around the world when you go back hacking, our Europe, yet everyone puts canadian flags in their back back as to not be mistaken for America. So it's a really funny joke to make because no one ever say ill. Canadians II,
yeah exactly it was. It was a big job. There was thirty nine kilometers into the stratosphere over New Mexico, United States, another give away that they had to write united dates in a helium balloon before free, falling and pressure suit, and then parachuting to earth. Listen. Why don't know about this I dont know why you're not everyone know about. I certainly did not, but I'm pretty dialed into the whole Red Ball extreme? Our already more than you had chair, I guess they had thrown cheerleader out of this capsule you'd know all about early now. Another include an idea anymore. Spending on my time answering these facts right and I'm not really looking at any other facts and other real. I think so.
Through the Charlottesville incident? I started feeling like a wider, not the actual elegant, but just talking about our many areas, the non racist childs villains. I thought I gotta be really extra diligent about these back. So I fact checked was filled Jackson, the coach of Chicago and allay that's what use and he was but I never know what could be raw boy up. It was any in the basque about He was also a player very tall man, really how Tom I hadn t no nine, six, seven or above, but why reliably some six eight six is a monster of of Ben sitting. Next to him standing and I was shocked at the height. That's so much time then me? Yes, I mean. Will your fault
then, please tell day that we propose that video the owl monitor. Really. I got my come up and see, and you are five foot one half in Chad, Re Zactly right you're in there is a pretty funny video that Christian shot. While I was measuring you our posterity just so just so the people. Now I am five feet. The half inch right. So you are a one foot: seven one slash two inch shorter than coach, Phil Jackson. I'd love to see you guys engaged in coitus. I would love, there's nothing! I'd like more than to walk in and see you guys in the missionary position. So he is gigantic body lane. On top of your body, I just imagine that your head would be around his chest in your toes a beer on his knee caps yeah. I think era,
oh there be aside buying a boy. He was the president of the next to her like five season, that's great and he also was dating hand or married Genie, bus daughter of Jerry Bus, the owner of the lake, so he swooped in and brought some championships to Lakers, but he said unfortunately, also gonna. Take your daughter already yeah now, meaning probably was happy. I guess I was big age gap. How bag many plus years, maybe the shortest she one for two. Why no wonder he was attracted to her you seventy three, Annie is a great opportunity to do some quick math, so I'm already ready to ten east five thousand seven hundred and fifty south and so sixty six seventeen years, ten, sixteen seventy three and
because if you are you're right sixty he got me. You got me, you said Roadie Miller, howdy, mailer yeah. I said Brody millions, Brody. Then he said body and then you said both an ice or caught off the hook for people Man me, a vital prerequisite. Booty Miller on killing is by Lieutenant Colonel David Grossman. All thank you for saying there also interesting that his name is Dave, not David, O rails interested. I think so here he's u permanently going by Dave his neck. Will you know my dad is: was David Robert Shepherd in my brother's David Robert Shepherd here, and so what they did is my dad went by Dave and day when by David
listed Dave once David was blown. No, he was always Dave and day would probably always been day God, but he went by David for the distinction interesting it affected my brother, not my dad magnificent, making any changes. You now air known him, but do you think that if your dad wrote a book that he would put his name is David David, big Dave? I think good deftly save my big so that people know big Dave. I wish I knew big day. I wish you did too. He would CIAO dude. You eat new sexual attention. Yoda, like you, a lot yeah yeah I wish I had many would have been probably quite inappropriate with some of the comments and the outer been funded. Watch, that's interesting. If he had them out with a new round, would you just?
What would you do? I would be staring at your face reading whether or not you thought it was funny or not. If you thought it was funny, I would laugh encouragingly so he'd be worse, and then, if I saw how trouble, I would say, dad shut the fuck up our interests day. I could go on you're. What You know, because our guns, I was in this position all time you see he was very forth with Whitworth Wait staff at rest, her right in some they loved it near, like sometimes Those in all the other gale yeah really got a bang IDA being flooded with by him, and they sometimes I was like this. I think this gals not join Euralia, and I would say it it's interesting though I mean now it at this age. It probably more apparent how I was really feeling but indefinitely for a long time in life, and somebody made me uncomfortable
it would just laughin per ten like I really work after. I am now that so misleading. How can we know well the here for that, but you know I know I know the whole thing is that's the whole point that there's never gonna be a solution that works legislate. Everything's going to be because it's like a lot of people like being flirted with a lot of people. Don't like being flirted with some people respond in an encouraging way, some people and spot responding a a very clear stop that way. So it's like there's not going to be. I think the answer is to just tune in to the person your ear and unroll, but even if they were to your point, you just said: if we her younger you'd, have just laughed like he s gray. You know it. That's my issue, not that wouldn't have been your dad's issue or whoever it was. That's that's on me to say, actually I'm not crazy.
Yes, but I can see some on making the argument. No, it's not your responsibilities. The person Hussein, weird stuff, you just stop it. So that's a great point, but a lot of people like it. I like it. I want the sick, the five year old waitress, to say to me: what do you do in hot stuff? What can I get you? I love it right, keep it come. If you said you please answer. You well hung fuckin soldier with any bring it. I think it's fun in exciting. I don't he'll physically, threaten yeah cause you're gonna six through an exact yes here now you deal safe. If I was in your apartment, when those loud noises happened, even though you won't say yes, I mean a very different position and someone whose fault eleven or five foot in one hand- and I mean- and what do we measure my wingspan-
how about with you on unless you really wanted? I just took I take you at face value here. Like you wanted mean immeasurably, I believe you it's exactly five feet and one half in India there it's perfectly proportionate, it's cool track. He I think it's mostly will have. No, they don't that's what you're supposed to have it, showing my purity its. People are to be pure. That card. You got more carried away with everything than I was ever USA must we were supposed to be popular, saying it's not that common pay said it is idea. Tell me tell me the thing that a person with Sand Seti Desi Desi D as I, why is it? Does he told I already forgot, because men do you not know either men de tailing for all of our listeners is who we love and is our most elusive. Guess we want guess and is casting a new show with Indian, yes, and I
into a vote, have to have an indian acts, the one that would fit my aim. Racket has an indian acts, and so I can't because Monica won't do it. Well, I can't deal you were first or you can now. I can't watch. What's this? Don't let's play this out, let's say you that I can teach you to you when you say that as this hypothetical letting you learned it the next day or two? Ok, if you learn new felt proficient at it, would you do it so think is more about that you wanted, even if you could do it. I think I just feel. What's this this crazy, I know it's acting, but I think it would feel so briefly recall adjournment, but don't you think the context changes will hold on. I think
weirder to assume that a native to India who actually authentically has that access is gonna, know all the comedic queues of an american sitcom right verses. You who gets the american sense of humor yeah, also the context so different. It's then a white person writing LA does show making fun of the acts are noted, indian, american woman. Yes, writing it. So there's gotta be zero. Ethical dilemma knows its ethical dilemma, learn to know nothing, you can do it. I don't wanna easier ones. Do you know it's nice little? I would feel so uncomfortable doing it and then I would be bad it will. I am uncomfortable it. You can't be uncomfortable an good when your act. Bullets is not what happens when I underscore the CALM brothers movie. It was first swedish guy I've never try to swedish accent. I dont think I can do it.
But I sat there watching you two clips and I did it over and over again to like after hours. I I think I can pull this off early gonna, try and by the end of it. I doubt it was a great sweetest accent, but I had something going that I locked into that became funny for me, but you do accents and you feel totally comfortable day You do that you love doing them. I do so. I can't, anyway, why they bring this up. Oh yeah desi, because you would, if I got you, do the oxen like these and then suddenly you sound like you from Bali, but whether even say Bali, I meant the that New Delhi abolishing Indonesia, that's not even in the so called. The fact is that even the road reading, I notice you David David in your. I can't work anymore. Desi means rob.
What have you read us? The biography of Desi Nazarite, now payment understand do you feel and other colleagues way as away be he may say and desi it's a first thing. Does here the people, cultures and products of the indian Sub continent? Well, Bangladesh, Indian Subcontinent, you fuckers Bucky Stone. It is often accepted that India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are desi. Countries is as as does he is a loose term countries where others through an answering, lose sexual. Let loose. people from their lose its derived from San Skirt Land scrapped Santa's means one from our country, Blue one from our country, usually people from India, Pakistan or Bangladesh Lou
Bangladesh. So angle, you know how to speak in an indian access to an ear befit. The criteria should audition for Monday. Show ok, bandits guy and he could probably audition then tell you, can behind and introduce clay would say Bangladesh, Bangladesh Age, you didn't like it his mind. You look up, I love you, Bangladesh