Steve Madden is an American fashion designer and businessman. Steve sits down with the Armchair Expert to discuss feeling different from an early age, his experience going to prison and the surreality to watching his life on the big screen. Dax is excited to learn Steve is sober and Steve talks about managing his ego. The two talk about the trap of narcissism and Steve discusses growing his business from $1100 to over a billion dollars.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome while the world an armchair expert experts on expert. I am Dax expert on joined by expert Patman. What am I an expert in? Oh goodness, all kinds of things, you're a veritable information centre for the grove? God, that's true! I am an expert at the grove, Tell people, perhaps even better than Mr Grove, John Growth, but we're here now like Michigan Emission Yeah. I know you're Dylan Michigan over in the woods by the lake the way here. I sing to you good Boy, You know my mama moves me budget can those day on their game, show in my hands in normal face on tv, and I was explained either
History wound Jennings doing the theme song for the Duke Boys and, if you'd a rate that better information I gave him, but where would you put it as far as interesting are useful work? Ok, cuts due to score. Ok, use fall wine or are even zero. Maybe you could come up. I could come up so I'll. Give it a want. Interesting. Seven! Oh great! yeah that Lyric was put in William Jennings own release of the song, because in the title Sequencer dukes a hazard saw his hands playing. The guitar but you never saw his face. Yeahs Ozma couldn't understand. The cap has shown is hanging a tv, it listen. Here's the thing with our guest today, Steve Man, I was aware of Steve. Man is a gigantic shoe empire. Yes, and then a vaguely remit
Some kind of tasty morsel about may be him being Wolf of Wall Street out her like, I remember them, chanting, Steve Man, Steve men. He was in fact, part of Wall Street. He did go to prison for nearly four years and he is so. candid about it, you're so interesting to hear about how we built the shoe empire, and then you know that sucker wrapped up and not so great staff, like the Phoenix fell and then rose or rise or risen from the ashes and really took charge after that yeah take his light back. I also just really liked him and he was We must give her in fear. We started off with pictures and I got my arms round his broad shoulders and I just had to say for someone above sixty lotta muslim ass. Yet he had a lot of money. power. It wasn't one of the reasons I liked him right this generally, not what you are trying to do, but me big time big time so steep man is here is our expert today and he is fascinating
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I feel like I'm gonna love, you not sure why. Now you have a very charming accent in the bows of New York yeah, but you're strong, I'm looking at you and I pray that when I'm sixty one I'm murder, You mean the level of muscle mass. You have shown it. I did a couple of years in prison, Vienna, it's not something you leave it will ensure that, especially if I see dance- but you know is really not much to do. Good work out I am obsessed with prison. I was in a movie about presenting clauses regarding, I was at Juliet Yea prison and just acting in their Steve just spent. In ten hours a day in the cell elsewhere, no fucking pay out. If I reached my arms, I could touch both walls and still be very bent. That made me feel panicky. Yet people are fascinated with it because its everybody's worst nightmare. Yes, that's right. What is needed here is my worst nightmare, which I imagine would become. Weirdly empowering to have lived through something that is everyone's worst fear like meaning
so for giving this whole new perspective on life Riah. As a kid I state, thank God I dont have to have a baby cause. I don't know if I could do that in a like it. It's seems so terribly Bosnia bear thing. Maybe I was I thank God and it doesn't look like I'm gonna be going to war rights because Vietnam word ended. The draft was over and there was no draft there was no war here. So I was grateful for that. Is that seem to me to be unbelievably bad. You guys, just ten years older than you were going to Vietnam and Jane shot. A prison was the third thing right and I thought well. Only now, I'm not gonna bogies will lead started the very building you're from Queens New York and you from oh yeah, yeah Kennedy Airport goes right over the five towns and far outgoing right. My families from that little neighborhood in Europe have jewish half Italian. Have you a chef Irish need at the Catholic Right, Sir, very
air, irish and jewish is very rare. Young, italian and jewish is not his room. It's not as rare pick the italian mother's, a similar the jewish mother Teresa, the overbearing mother, my irish mothers, the not really that interest, so it would dad russian mom, like I was in. So how did they may well? My dad was from the christian part of a jewish neighbourhood. Ok, it was very jewish neighbourhood, but they had this little town world. It gentiles lived. Ah ha, that's where my dad was from it was the end of world war two and I think they met at some sort of dance in the neighborhood. I suppose you know it end of war, I imagine that maybe barriers were less stiff because we all go to war. You fell very unified as just an american earth. Imagine yeah! I wasn't born to fifty eight. So will you remember, I certainly remember to bring it way down for a second, the day of nine eleven and the day after I remember
I was in Santa Monica, and I went to seven eleven two by ship in there was It's bizarre civility till one another that I had never experienced on planet earth and I was like a while. We are all overly aware at this very moment that were a thing and that things under attack and were in this together born out of trade did he, but I, but it was. I was very aware and present for how unique that feeling was near. It feels like we're not there right now now on its head be the opposite. I really like everybody's vary in their own camp and almost half do apologise for liking the president. Charlotte disliking the pressure now it seems to be really while our identity is now Yahoo, we'd like politically, which I think is bonkers with so many things like they're, so many things that would come on my list when choosing a firm before who they voted for you personally, but this is a very
extreme time there were living and you must admit, o absolutely the idea and there's a brazilian theories, I have my arm chair theories and get her. You have yours, but I think social media is to me a very loud megaphone for difference. It must be that because it is extraordinary time what you can't argue as if this is the most device of president of all time. That's just not true, Andrew Johnson. They had to get rid of him. He tried to go backwards. Emancipation proclamation. We had a civil war, I mean, if you just look at Hilcrest Lincoln would have been the most divisive I mean literally divided yeah divided the boy. I actually think that were headed towards some secession in. I don't think it's out of the question is so much rancor between the two sides. What I praise it doesn't take, been like nine eleven to fucking remind us that we're all neighbours, I hope, were evolved enough to get there without some horrific innocent. Well, even
America in I've made that argument to friends of mine, like people all over the world were all the same right now. There's a guy named Abdul and his wife is breaking his balls yogi. I just like my broke. My balls, you know I mean we're all that Oh yeah, you men! Yes, it would be great if everybody could get with that. Yes, we have about ninety six percent. In common. We all wake up. We don't want to wake up. We all get. It then take a shit. We gotta feed ourselves with her. I gotta get kids to school, but the time you get the moment you would have your political debate. You ve done nearly the same exact Yang, unplanned earth as everyone else. Yes, and that should be very unifying and bonding my opinion, we're all plagued by being humans, yeah you're obsessed with them, occasion. I notice you ve got your interests interests, they know what way tell me, I'm gonna, throw it in that its general beginning. Jews are very obsessed with that. Germany's
The matter is that Reza Cultural Characteristic, I read a whole vanity fair article. They ve got like thirty two hundred words for shooting. german language is interesting. Isn't it is I'm able if I had a cold or something my jewish grandparents? They would want to give me like ex lax. Sure you did. I get it out so mom and dad they stayed married. They stayed marriage ass, they stayed Mary fifty years, that's beautiful earlier about gone, Snows mix, says jewish and Christian. At the same time, in those days whose rare it's not rare today, my kid goes to school, everybody's F, jewish and I of course have this view of that time. Period in that area. That's very much informed by good, Fellows, Bronx Tale. I have this kind of ideal kids running around ST people plain stick? Ball is any of that the one they touched me was madmen. Ah, he captured the S
in some of the family in the early sixties and my dad wearing a hat going off to work, a shrinking you know the drinking at lunch and I'd watch that show I feel like. I was getting together with my dad, seeing my dad so great, and what did your dad do? He was in the textile business. He saw fabrics to department stores or fabric stores every day would go off on the train and he'd where that long coat and where the hat and then at night as little boy I'd pick him up at the train station with my mother. I'd be a little boy to in the back seat and he come walking off the train same train every night? What was the golden goose for? Him could see my dad's old cars yeah, so I could list to you'd like four things that would have been the panic
offer him. You know I was only neuron dealer share in others all these things, the dad have some obsession ass. He was building his career if he could just slink. I think that my dad was so worried about losing everything that he grew up in the depression. We would add me at like forty five forty six, years old, which was old in those days out shot at all. Any more said, the guy with a six year old, likes to accept that he grew up in a poverty stricken so his thing was always to have enough money plague off on the weekend. Whose and have a cadillac, we did allow himself. The yangtse did. Ok, you're always lived in fear, operated out of fear, and he would read to me the bankruptcy notices in the newspaper when I was like eleven a look see what's happening in the country and it would read this stuff and it is coloured. My best
I started this business many years later, even though I dont look very conservative as a business man, I was very conservative business and they used to call me chicken little. I always think we're going back open. The sky was one. I had actually serves me well, because I built a big company, so I have a similar disposition and I thought at a certain point. I had to go it's time for you to shift gears, because this is gonna, be limiting you're, not acknowledging. What's really, putting in your pessimistic view, you will you'll be limited by that deserves our ever an evolution, but to grow a business that you ve got a fucking at some point. Swing for the fences, know what you're asking me as a deeper question its desire. What point did you think you deserve? Oh that's interesting in all this stuff, I'm a wealthy man today. He I dont think I am like I'll say it look at big ball or other stocks are well of guy. That's not me and I'll do that those people here, a guy spoken rich and people. Look at me like a youth,
up in the hare had it, for you are right, and I am so. My personal life in my business would separate remember in the early nineties, buying two pairs, a cowboy boots, brown and green. I was so racked with guilt that I bought two pair. I had a return. One: aha, did you have an entrepreneurial spirit as a kid? Were you like always trying to figure out how to make a couple bowel ways I mean I can remember, being six years old and nine years old and being different, I was always different. I was always two priorities: shovelling now cutting your AL all that stuff carrying and if the guys were good loomed up and they shot well, you might get a nice to gradually to black sea our. How did you do in school? Not well, ok, grant! Well read. I have attention deficit disorder, was diagnosed as an adult we didn't know about it. When I was growing up, I love to read on my own. I loved history
now when you talked about Andrew Johnson there that set. Let's talk about by arab shit like that, and I was just all self taught. You are pulling your hair out sitting still in a classroom from our at home. You know when I had hair, I did pulling a hawk and about what happened how did I had trouble focusing too his offer me and how did this mix religion play out in the social circle? Iconic dug it. I was an outcast and I can't I've enjoyed that, and so, amongst my jewish friends, which I mostly had jewish friends too, I was just a little bit different may rise. Different and I revelled in the jar and then the irish guys. You know I was a Jew with I'm- Are you heard millions of jokes nonstop at your expand, of course, and how do? You know I thought it was great. I enjoyed being an outcast. I didn't really have to pay a bit price by the way in that you can get your ass. It was already only black guy in a white school right. You know something like that or in the I'm, a jewish guy in a school, the only indian girl, Andalusia, the owner,
they all. I am all for the sake of the many guided prison well be graduated high school. Did I gradually and I went to college where'd you go. What did you ever see? Miami? Ok, larder yeah yeah, but I only last year it did you like the party one year. I gave you yes, I joint drugs yeah me two zero, my drugs, so he asked. Are you sober? Yes, I am, you are assessed, I'm sober. Did you like cocaine? I liked everything I was a complete lunatic. Ok, did you have a stare at the people of your apartment? Oh god I used it. not cocaine and I'd be alone and I'd start taking the love, seed and the couch and putting them up against the door? I was convinced that people were coming down to arrest me shop, cocaine made workers the center of the universe, who clearly everyone around you, the anchoring about your hair and eyes so paranoid they actually call cocaine psychosis.
Usually. My experience is more of a day too on the drug that it sets your first ninety hours are I'm at least feeling pretty calm here it's generally, unlike for me day three I would be completely and said it was the worst drug was your favorite. You know I did it with reckless and did it stop going right? You know each other major feel so bad. It was the oddest struggling loved it you'd, snorted and you'd feel bad. It was the most bizarre that, oh yes, I totally disagree know yet, but you couldn't talk you could knapsack. We can have that you can have such you can't talk. You can eat what's goin on a different relationship with him. When he does, I would snorted and feel optimistic. I liked to myself the world was going to work out. It was a great relief from my pessimism. Now there is a little bit of euphoria that goes with it, but you can t
came out, locks up well argued Saudi. I can, but I wanted to talk, and that was one of my big breakthroughs and re ionizing. I had a problem with it was. I was At a bar, I was talking to a very beautiful gal. Things were going swimmingly, someone come over and said: do you want MIKE to bring an eight ball by, and I like looked at the girl and back in human, as I know in full. Well, I say bring the ball on not having sex with this procedure, and I said yeah Hamburg enable my mind. Oh it only get you like this thing more than settlers. That's a red flag. Yes, fellow scare, yes, nobody! You know it's a bad relationship with a knife. drank a lie behind the coke, and so I just took everything to access all the time. My drugs on older than you, my crew. We took quailed my dad love. Yes, the heat would regale me. with my all. You want to lay a loved quail. It's my generation with we used to go to the pharmacy. They were called seven four
and you would just get this in. I tried to talk about quality in my documentary because it was a really big thing. I wanted to explain what it was like, usually took it on an empty stomach, as you want anything interfere writing more mature about it. Really takers notoriously skin and sexy so you'd get this Tingley feeling and you loved everyone. It wasn't even sexual, although was that as you are, but it wasn't even just then you see the male men delivering you managed. I wanna be close to you. I want to be your friend. You know you want intimacy draw yes alike. Added to see you know I never did ecstasy, how did I get similar? Maybe I'd heard people say that about How long did you quit so I'm sober six years, six yeah I had a little time my and I went out how long have you had before you're? Not I had about ten years. So in your back
yeah, I'm not going to have so I had a little detour with painkillers. Oh sure, that yeah very calm you get a surgery. You you wake up the beast. Yes, yes, I'm very vigilant today and I don't mess with with anything, and I mean I do take agile and I've had a lot of stuff. I had my teeth done in Hell out of work but my mouth and I didn't need anything while we're amid I got. Obviously, Nova came right, but man I had so much work done, they drill. Then they put implants and did everything in my mouth stronghold sober and I didn't need it. Wasn't either that moment where you, like, my heard enough
yeah me. Let me grab one of these pills. The pill addiction, I would argue as the worst of all them in that such diminish return of all the addictions right. It's just immediately downhill as far as your honeymoon getting anything out of him, though, is I've been kidnapped, yeah, especially opiates because he gets sick. If you don't take them right, that's another kid in the cook. Hang it in really wasn't the same the opiate, you physically, you feel it. Oh, my god, I gotta take something that I may not make it its awful it so bad, and then you need more and more so bad. I'm so glad you're here where'd, you find your way back. He s really say it takes a lot of courage to come back after a slip. Yeah encourage anybody is out there to go, get help its courageous, it's the opposite What you think you feel ashamed. I should be sober. That's the nature of the disease
what I'm going to add to it a huge service to come back well and tell me what it was like I'll be fantasize about, or maybe it's getting. Maybe it's that, like you, can't overestimate power of coming in telling your story, it so helpful to Oliver strictly to have like long terms, arrangements, here's another guy at ten years or so help right and then you can also underestimate the disease. That's one thing like it's always true: see guys they went to a re happen. They come back and they seem to be doing ok and smoking a little we charting where they're taking edibles and the like. But you're cool, you known him like a cheese. Maybe they are. all right. I am I such a loser. I can't take anything you know and then the next thing you know they're like in a strait jacket it off the outbreak. Yeah. Ok, when do you start your shoe business, so I was thirty or thirty
on thirty one may be started did not in what were you doing between dropping out at Miami, and so I was in a shoe store, ok, learned the shoe business and then some pulses company pull me out of the store. So you got a lotta. Pluck hotspot luck, I per annum. pull up as better neighborhoods biscuit talk, as I heard that when I went to work, the wholesale business- and I learned my craft and I wholesale choose, and then I started to design shoes. I started to work on shoes saying and I could do this. I think I could do this and I did do it and then that ran its course working for another company and I started my own in- were you arts is to get all the kids like where you someone who's sketch store. Not now I was an artist so fascinating. I mean I was very creative in some ways sure
gotta get things you wanted. The whole of Europe is a creative kid, but I wasn't a draw an artist in that sense, but I thought differently. Were you reverse engineering, where you going? I can see what's working in the market place, can you explain your design, inspiration? That's exactly. I could recognise the voice in the market and I knew how to get it done, and I knew how to make them a heart. I had a sense for business and I wasn't nervous about that. I never doubted my ability to do. but you know there are so many things in a business to raise money. You have to be able to pay your bills and but there's a lot that goes into it, to have the perfect skill set to make a business work build it was an incredible programmer, visionary, whatever the fuck he was Belinda, also be able to hold the reins of a business growing that fast,
yet another crazy anomaly right, there's so much to it and also creating shoes. On top of creating this company, the secret to business is to have people on your team. That's really you know. I had a good thing. I can do stood gotta to make a shoe that sold. So I had that town, but then is a million guys with that talent. The secret was, I started, building players, people coming in and building this thing and growing the business in admiring people that were better than me Rob was a real secret. You know really do For me, video, knowing that I couldn't do certain things. That's an Achilles, though, for many people, myself included, were I'm a bit of a control freak, but you have got to delegate right. You ve got a fine people that are better at ship than you do absolutely in a very interesting. The way you put it made me think, because the entrepreneur is perfectionists Annie is a control freak, so its counter intuitive to let go
Robert. In order to win you must let go yeah in order to win. You must let go. You must get people that are better than you do different things in this very few people. They can do it all. There are some. I was not one of them and then I can keep a piece of paper on my desk if you guys,
me a piece of paper. It would be lost and forty minutes the I work, whereas that behaviour by going through my you know that wasn't my thing. He starts the man you took savings you had acquired through working for other people launch this business. I started with eleven hundred dollars actually was able to build a bankroll and one foot in front of the other sounds corny. I did what I could do and they different business deals that weren't quite capital intensive. Ah, so I was able to use other people's money in the beginning and then keep building right here and now. Here's whether really fascinating party or story begins. Yet lotta people have seen Wolf of Wall Street. Yes, they have. I couldn't. believe there were making a film. I can't believe my life was coming to the big screen. Also by the wave of heralded by a guy. You must have been from New York loved you score saves. You must know he's just the greatest film yemeni good Fellows is that's the film its everything that when I'm with my friends, said, what's your favorite film, you can't you
then he swore says he felt was not allowed to China. We celebrate anyway, I sort of films they screened. For me, twelve people from my company in my heart was pounding. You knows hounding as I thought. What are they gonna make me look like we know my kids, so I really couldn't take it all in because I was just so nervous, but then I realized they treated me fairly, aha, and so I started to enjoy it. The hours like maybe two thirds of the and I never saw it again since then. The kind of freaks me out, of course, that the scenes that they show with I'm at a basketball game, they'll show, is seen and put me on the jumbotron. Ah ha is a famous scene where the thereon quailing and they say I work on the streets and people go ski. Why yes, so the guy that Jonah Hill is plain. Is a childhood friend one of my best friends, one of my oldest friends at they were incredible
these guys they held it. Yeah nailed it so so many layers about one how wild to see A story you are involved with be brought to the screen by Scorsese leaner, to cap realities. That itself is extra reel off right, yeah, that's crazy, but then their story in and of itself is crazy. Sorry, the pomp and dump the whole thing yeah. Now I was sober when this was happening. Oh, you were just only recently look back and seemed that my addiction to money had taken over arise. I was sober people that you couldn't have been sober amendments. This crazy and they were high all the time, but I was but it was something else was happening to me. it was another external thing they gave you an internal feeling, that's right, yeah, yeah, how it doesn't matter right, use, clear money up, it will good. I like that, like when I'm eating popsicles at night, no weird manner, I think they might be used to deregulate my emotions. A meeting over the SEC
never ends right. I'm still eating over this and I'll give you that, as a filmed in my store, they invited me to the sat in my store and I was like no, you got it play counting crows too in those days galloping because they didn't listen to it. So your child friend. I am assuming he approached you and said. Let us help capitalize. Your accounts actually write an exactly. He seemed to have the money train the backyard. That's right in my shoes at thirty one years old are all road you are young, you wouldn't have even been interested in whether was legal or not just personally yeah Morton, given if a well appreciate you given me the better the doubt at that time we thought it was legal. Ok great is a little bit of a grey area shark because it was so much money being made. They promise me to get me my I'd ever had more than twenty grand in my life. I don't even believe them said yes, sure, yeah, ok, whatever right we'll get, you will get your six hundred grand
Then we're gonna raise you seven million bucks and they did it yeah and that it must be a feeling it can The winning the library or I could you even believe that was happening. It was amazing to have money. I never really had money outside yeah was an odd feeling that would propelled me into all of that. Just now then. What's next controlling happy for about thirty seconds right, if we get the thing, it's amazing how that goes. So it takes up. So they actually raise all that money in an and then you put that money. good use. I'm assuming idea had an innate sort of instinct on how to make it happen, and I took the money and you grew the business yeah and I was involved with the guys and they were doing other deals, your investing with them at the height of those with the things that I got it into trouble for and while you were doing them, how conscious were you of, like others deafening
or this is deniable? I know there's little shady, but I think it's deniable very plain that law shell gay with your head. You just thinking that it will never happen to you. This bride happens to others. But like we're all going along- and you know nothing bad is gonna happen. stay too diffuse there. We supported by door dash an incredibly easy way to get food from restaurant. You love without any work. You're stuck at the office just treat yourself to a meal, get home pop on the tube open up the door, dash app and get somethin tasty deliver directly to your house. We use this Allah Tommy. I and the other day we got some. I screamed. We were recommended birthday, cake, ice cream yeah. I was for a very soon,
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different, so don't miss out on this amazing opportunity again go to Cuba, code outcomes, lashed acts and get your first month free, that's kiwi, Godaddy COM, slash decks Will you know it's a bit like that college scandal? That's going on united people have been paying to get their kids into school out for forever. You know that's an old story. It's that kind of thing. It happens, you do it, you do it and then all the a sudden somebody gets busted. And it's like what were they thinking about DMZ hit me when I was walking out of a restaurant and they asked me what I thought about it. I said it was a stupid thing, but do you really think she should go to jail for that right? I'm an idle! shit, I'm talkin about lorry the girl from I dont know our but ah ha full house here. It has deuces as we were moving about us of your thirty thirty, because I can
still see and muslim all the time. We ve had to come to the same realisation likelihood headlines on inspired. Many long have as its habits, but I cannot say she was married tissues, Bessie Massimo I found the zone, usefulness and I want to diarrhea and besides the early ninetys stews, The unmasked Emma seems she was the same thing ass. I could serve fur yeah very similar right ear. The ice ball had kind of thing. I know she's, really unpopular she's become the posted, for the one percent free inequities, yeah she's the whole thing Tena Mass got now. People are beaten the shit out of her, and this is about imprisonment in general. Do we have the goal of punishment or do we have the goal of rehabilitation because rarely can the to exist, the Saint IA, and so for me? Yes, what she did is abhorrent. Yes, it's disgusting! It is still a that. Do I think now, on top of that, we should all spend thirty one thousand.
dollars a year, so she can said somewhere and we should pay for her to be in there and she's now, not adding anything. Besides, let's hard ourselves to show her, she was wrong in some ways, not a violent crime. I don't know what the productive end goal of it is okay. So it's a good point that you bringing up because there's prisons and certain people need to go to prison to protect this society out. So I've heard about that a great deal here and do I think that white collar people should be locked up? I guess they should this at all different kinds of stealing. I certainly deserve to be locked up and it's a question of how much times you wanna give people- and I agree because you can't say that a black kid Robin a liquor store is worth going to jail for and then a white guy, robbing whatever
fuck and fund is not in that respect. A hundred percent. You I've been thinking about all these things in the last few days, because this fellow that I know the sky Michael Cone. Oh right! Yes, I know him. He was trumps guy. If MR fix it and he's going to prison- and I spoke to him- you know to drag him some advice and thought you know like would just a bunch of white guys talking about prison. We ve done such it on justice to the black community, jarred warehousing black. You can't talk about prison without talking about the african american experience, which could be a whole other programme. Nobody There's a disproportionately incarcerated in some sort, crazy. They were giving black kids three hundred and sixty month selling crack cocaine, which is thirty years. Nineteen year old, kids twenty years was just crazy, so is also just point out that crack at its own class
ok yeah, then of mandatory, sending reign in that white people correct right. Yet you and I are sitting here talking about being extra galaxy yeah. I never was in jail for doing drugs real now. Now, if you in our black and we have the same history, we would have done jail time. That's almost certainty, because we would then stopped thousand more times you and I were stopped and they would have found shit on me yeah. It's that simple! Yes, that's correct! We don't know what that's like right and I think that the a thing that we need to deal with. So now, when you got sentence, you got centres to forty one morning, one month. Syrian at that point, where was Steve Man shoot. company at show the shoe company was doing great. We just had a great wholesale business. Then we had about thirty stores or something like that. You were doing like two hundred million and business. I don't remember what the number was, but I know that when you got out of prison, you elevated to two hundred million to three. Forty is something like that. You so much
the been around, we really exploded. The rules, a big business is a nice business was doing well, and then I went away in the layers of panic, fear that you are experiencing what percentage of it was a fuck em about to lose my freedom verses. Oh fuck, my business is gonna collapse. In my absence it was all of the above. I was worried about that. I would die penniless or maybe not that dramatic, but that I needed to save repenting, because you didn't know what the future would break at that moment upon entering you're the ceo I met in your horse to yeah. I had a seven year ban from being the sea area a friend took over, and I have to say that
did going yeah. They did some really good work when I was away, and it was pretty much the same- maybe a little bit less. When I came back, I came back thirty months later and then we were all just so energized and it just exploded in the businesses exploded. Since then, I've been back fourteen years now. Can you walk me through some of the phases of that thirty month? Experience have to imagine you first arrive at just panic and of panic. Is the right word it's just like how am I going to survive this shit, like am I gonna get through this and strike a day at a time right, and you just have a few things mind your own business. That's a big thing! No, you see some crazy shit. Goin on you go the other way. You know you dare to just to do your bid. Do you like movie out of sight out of sight, George Cloven yeah that moves in a grey, the greatest that was the greatest fill in, so that sat largely enough yeah Lord Hydro penitentiary? I love them, will be so very
deleted a resemble that place. Also we lived in cube, see cement block similar to orange. Is the new black verse sort o captured it, but it was much smaller. Those girls had bigger rooms and a tiny little cubes. He lived with one or two guys who foot locker, not this
Your foot longer yet was a foot block career ass. I run a review right. Did you mean any super interesting people unless all many interesting people, mostly everybody's there for drugs? Ok, I would say eighty percent of the prisoners. Drugs. If I mean I don't know, that's accurate. We actually know that on one fact, trackers it's much higher lateral than state you found out yeah. So I went to a cat. Then I transferred to a low is living cubes. You go into a cell in a medium prison, but media mom security. May they call it medium. Ok, mostly cuban and put a rican, the spanish guys and then the black eyes- and you know see you get into that experience in our shops are not doubt pain it as a positive experience, but there are certainly elements of it that are kind of
cool, privileged experience. It was a positive experience. It was a heartbreaking, awful experience that there was some great guys there. You don't have to join a Nazi gang Disney. I didn't have to join the air, and Brotherhood area in June would have less alike. I was ass. Trial made no, I I played out. Oh you did. I just made a deal played out and went off so then the night before you have to go there. What is leg, just knowing starting tomorrow as four years of military dairy. Queen with my guys, we flew down six or seven guys. My brother, some really good friends and we went out to dinner hung out and then you go with ten thirty new self surrender. They called self surrender and, while you're doing it, you think you could be like the remedy.
It's not right back and it's not checking in you go area. I remember I brought with me a book. I had a book about the rolling stones. Don't ask me why I had about. and they like to be threw it out like what you're allowed to bring a bible with you, a boy can't bring anything with you like the moment. You go with your friends and you drive up to the gate and then all of a sudden you go into this room at it's over. It's over problematic parties over it's over it's over strip clothes, gonna bag hand goes up your ass, I mean it's. You talk it's awful, it's awful as you can imagine that's how it is nasty fuckin, prison God. They must pick the nastiest one, not all the prison guards, a terrible
right, but the ones that do the induction are particularly terrible, they're, sending a clear Macedonia, the guy. I you know that famous seen from officer a gentleman where he says. Don't I bore me boy? Are you don't? I bore me Lugosi? I was like tat. Look them in the air it would you look at tat, a dog and me to tell you the fuckin taught. Did I say you could say anything: it's like that crazy. Was there any point in their where you had gotten so used to the routine of it that it started feeling normal? Yes, actually, I dont know what normal means, but the last nine months, my routine there's pretty documented exam, of people who actually long for that experience. I got have been in there now at its heard that a notch
you buy an online, it's it's bad, but you're, making the best of it. So, like you know, for me, get up, I turn a class. I worked in the library tuna class. Here is very quick. It's like a ninety minute thing and then you pay much free and you do you lunch. You do your work out right. You know you try to do something. Then you come back reading. You know and I really got into reading and I really got into reading novels. It was a big thing like at night, like your turn on a great shower yeah I get in my bank, and I would have two click on play, light on her work and I would get in the dead and you get in there and, unlike you know what it was. Ok like. I did another day right here. I got through this because the thing that does seem appealing to me is by the way it's the only thing I miss about drugs once you get high. You have a singular objective. Everything else gets right. Size is just stay high, that's
in for some reason. I found that comforting. I'd like having one thing I have to do So in a weird way, I could see myself just and join the fact that I get up. As you say I go to this class, then I gotta eat nothing and work out, but like the weight of the world is no longer on my shoulder. That's true. Actually, even though I had a business, either was nothing. I could do that rights are people running the company and they would tell me what was going on, but I wasn't focused on that and I know if you started this business, you have a very busy brain yeah, so there must be a little bit of freedom and stepping out of that, and just knowing like why cant do anything. My favorite thing the world is a road trip cause I'm completely unaccountable want. What can I do from the driver's seat or my car? I help you order answers. I can't do anything and I love you still do it yet live for. We may I had this ability to play tapes in my brain. I play the marriage, take the father tat, but I wasn't any of those things or I played the golfing tat bore,
the business tape and I was able to fantasize him to go someplace else and that ability it really save me. My brothers were much older than me, so I was sort of raised an only child. I think I got that from being alone and having create my own world yeah, but also addiction lends itself to romantics in a way there's like this romanticism about Bukovsky or Hemingway or the romances ISM involved in sex addiction. It's this ability to create this fantasy that so complex year, an enticing that it can get you high like a drug can so there's it's almost like implicit in an attic to be a little bit of Romania. Yes, I think that's true, but of course, that you get to a place. I think I have now where they find a dreadfully born doesn't work
ok, so you get out day, one of out is what I would think or does it under deliver it was sublimer. I was engaged, got engaged to a long time, employee and we became romantic, a hot sex yeah, but romantic while you were in Siam wrote beautiful letters to each other, and it was great. That sounds very romantic. It was the most romantic thing, and so she put me up, and it was just like a blur, I think, like we had sushi eight. I don't remember she fears. I can. I think we went on the airline that has tv. Oh, I was just like blow out the ago it off, and then it was amazing, like a dog hang in and set out the window in every smile was like that and then I was able to go back to work quickly and it was just the most exciting time in so what things change, because your first year out, you increase the business, a ton and then mighty does visiting you ve tripled, even what that
thousand six was going to count your money from everyone, but a lot of fuckin money. One point four billion into that's chatting. Yes, when you got out you increase revenue a hundred million brought up to four seventy five and then by two thousand fifteen. The companies make one point: four billion dollars a year. What happened between there too? I have to digress a richer prior used to do this great bit where he would be hired cocaine, Anita Hall as accounting and go ya, got here, look at three in the morning it needed so that he can bring it over right. Have you know, as others someone else taller great story about who weren't sight he invited them over in the guy? Got there any had like a Kilo cocoanut coffee table in two hookers? can he said, look look at this look at this way, these girls and Ngos. oh, my god and you are getting, is though with
these are good. Bye, though we're gonna parties- and I just want you to see what I'm doing at the park at embedded did we come observe what I've got going. So what were these and once a paradigm shifts, but what happened where the stages of that stages of coming back, coming back and then grown into such a huge successful company because of incarceration, I was forced to pay, so many people and then even when I get out, I did that and I hire people that were smarter than me. I bet on a couple of people and they ve really been amazing right now. The companies at the best level, its ever been out the three billion dollar market cap. Why one thousand one hundred dollars, wow yeah yeah, it was really quite a journey. Are you actually able to digest that information until actually you can, because you have you see stuff right, you see the money or you see the success, but do you feel it viscerally right now on a cellular basis, and the answer is no:
dont, and there are days that I do. I wish I could talk to a bunch of guys that have made a lot of money. Sharp INA, like what's that, like some people, seem so supremely confident but like one truth that I know I'll bet, Drake wakes up and thinks he looks like shit uncertain days. Yes right. Yes, it's that kind of thing, because people think, oh, my God Steve. You have all this money now and I know because I know what it's like to be Steve's. I would have to imagine
if I found twenty five year old, Steve Men- and I said when year sixty one you're gonna have x amount of money and x amount of market share and x amount of stores. All that stuff, you would of fantasized about a feeling in internal feeling in the sense of self worth than a sense of all that stuff. That just doesn't exist. Kenneth coal- he was the guy. I looked up to my god. He's got his name in the shoes. What's it like to be, Kenneth CALL and I actually begin friendly whether we play golf together eyes. It is a bad sees a pretty cool guy, but my companies,
it's better than can it's! Ah you then you didn't feel some magic now now, if I'm gonna go right right. Yes, sir, if it ain't that which it ain't that I think what you can internalize is you can be proud of how hard you worked. You can be proud that you were humble enough to get people that are smarter than you there's some things there to be proud of. The number doesn't really illicit any pride, no right, but you can be proud of the hard work now. What things in your life give you the thing that you thought a billion dollars would. Sometimes there is a moment where you look at kids, are with you and I never thought I was gonna have kids, you know, and I have three kids and you know where they be eating in an unlike step outside of it, and I look and I see them eating in either that or cut Hocking had song younger this man, this beautiful wife. How did I get here?
it's better that out, but there they look. So beautiful is a wonderful feelings when I wake up and I make the kids toasted Bengals with butter. Ah, I dont want to do it. I can't stand getting up in the morning. I hate and going up. They gonna score, unlike stumbled to the total stood by these bangles, because I dont really cook wows, but I do make great labels and I am proud that I make them chocolate, Milkin, Bengals, infer that moment. Aha, you know the world is ok. Yeah. Now that moment is all is well yeah, freedom from the bondage of cell. Yes, yes, so weird, the gift: isn't the gift you think it's gonna be, but yet there is a big gift sitting there. Yes to becomes ain't mad and go home. I look in the mirror, still see a guy that I wish. I had better blank and buddy. I examined him so its name, your documentary, it's called mad man, man,
May we wanted to call the cobbler, but somebody had taken their couldn't use it, but now the books gonna be called the cobbler number. A great day. What is your philosophy untie manage makes? I have to imagine that if you gave in to it you could be busy twenty four seven lately the last couple of years may be less. You have been enjoying doing nothing more than ever a kind of a new thing for me now I dont know if it has to do with Donald Trump, not to get political, but it's so interesting. What is taking place in the country? that you can kind of like have the tv on. Oh sure I just cannot tumble around it, so entertained of em hate him. Whenever you fall on this thing, it's a hell of a show. Some of this stuff is, if you wrote it in a book you, it's unbelievable, what's happening while I believe the sheer volume is what's unbelievable, literally daily. I keep expecting them to run out of something, but if I glanced at twitter there's its hourly its daily, he tweeted
the Kentucky Derby any doesn't surprise anyone come Norma, but maybe he's onto something the adding bill Mars lately been saying: of him. He saw himself is a non politician who is a great business man but in fact he's a great politician whose a terrible businessmen late there's like of weird flip. Let's actually true, that's good! Well, ok. So now you ve been dialing back. Do you have fear that oh shit, if I'm not around at the holdings in collapse? No, no! I have a terrible fear about. I work with my team and they're doing great and actually doing better without the which really freaks me sure. Shake clearly makes me insane and I had to get used to that. Of course I built it. I have to say that, but there doing great business is great to have a little bit more free time and your divorce now on while arise yes of divorce now and got a good relationship with my ex wife were married for nine years for ten years to voice. But I have more time to come to think about all this stuff
he's getting used to it. Yeah yeah! Well, you know out imagine a friend of mine in their nature- and I was talking to him just Friday about when guys retire from being any challenge. If anything, since most of them experience a pretty big lull in conventionally people fought over, miss the limelight or they missed the paycheck or they missed the game, and it's not that they now now, like it's the calm robbery yeah it's this year, sense of purpose here. That is invaluable two hands here, so I miss the action, the love to fight, and I love to scrap and pulled grudges, and you know I left it and don't do that as much anymore. Things should could things are normal as a kid I was obsessed with reading about the moguls power to read about Jack. Warner and Louie be mayor and Darrell Zanuck and all these guys
I had the sense that I was like that in some way, even is like it like an eleven year old and twelve year old kid reading about these guys. Here they were interested in the hall vision from the creative, the business, the everything putting all the pieces together. Guy that made gone with the wind wasn't the director. He didn't write the screenplay, he wasn't an actor. His name was cells Nick he was the executive producer, and that was like. That's the guy that's what I want to be, and I brought them to the shoe business right. I really did you succeeded early on by my understanding of having unique marketing that everyone knew about right, see the bubble head young woman Wall Street? What role did that play in the success? Do you think, though, it started with an idea that I had, which was this elegies at the plaza, which is an ill New York thing, and it's this weird part Tobias, was with drawings. We stopped
with that and then the sky had this photographic trick where he blew up the heads. Yet nothing like yellow is right, but that's what I wanted and he made it the sky and what was great about it was looking back on at once. We had this technique, we, my company, we created the ads, we styled and we created him. We worked with this agency and it was great areas like a group effort. It was a very exciting time in a fund Hey, you had come through the back door to do something: Hollywood ass. Yet, like you actually had a production, it was weird now that you mention it. It ended up being there. I ended up being that guy Rhino were putting all the pieces together. It was fantastic period, but they're all good periods, yeah and you'll find that to you as a sober man like me, they're all good. They all bring interesting shit
just all interesting, if you're awake and of my egos not evaluating which one of those things is more important than another, then I can just be present and enjoy. Those thing was, I might be a tall order, that's a very that's all we have to fight that years ago. Is not my a meagre, you got that my army is there anything that you still have your sites on so many things getting older. Now, sixty one more was twenty. Fourth, much twenty.
fuck you twenty fourth now officially eyes. I gotta. Let's change it. I will say one thing that I heard and believe so we don't get older, but our bodies get older cousin, the same ten year old noxious kid, but the casing changes so China, at last, myself, were trying to overcome all my shit on a daily basis. My self centered newness, which I am in the extreme and that's the challenge today and it seems a little prosaic, but it's not, I dont, think be an entrepreneur who grows something to build something without Bein, a crazy self centered yeah at Times Eagle maniacal at times our civic. All these things, the trick, I think, is to step off the treadmill right, any slighter that yeah can be done, even if you are a part time narcissist right it. I've been reading a lot about the North Caucasus thing, as I tell my god. Is that me, do you know about these things like tat
David Narcissist thought within heart. Still yours saw about gonna stuff than has been me, but it's not me. It's not who I am the out. You know what I mean so and even if it were you it's not to say it has to be you not me, but it could be me. I was wrestling with it strongly. Recently, myself, I'm like, oh my kid, I think I'm just a hard core nurses I certainly am thinking about myself, twenty four seven when I'm in a situation. My first thought is how I'm uncomfortable, but I will say that I witnessed something at work on one of my many acting jobs, I'm not singling out which one it was, but I was watching it at another. Actor could been male could been female. This actor was complaining about their lines. They were complaining about where they had to stand. There were complaining about this and that and I thought to Myself- that's the definition of narcissist. I have the same thoughts. I think my lines are crappy and I think I don't want to stand there, but I recognized
Everyone around me also feels that way to feel uniquely hold upon its is a narcissist like to feel individually targeted and individual everything's unfair to you, and you can't recognize it around us and say I think that's where breaks now, or at least I told myself that, unlike ok, I'm not a hard core analysis, because I am aware that everyone doesn't like their position or their lines or their light. Whatever the fuckin thing is that's a good point, but it is something that I like to do is like it. So let's say I go and sit down some place. I have to say Steve: why don't you ask three questions about other people? You know like it's a drill. Almost there are many times when I walk into a meeting and ago Steve ask about somebody else and listen to them and don't talk about yourself, because all I wanna do is talk about myself, of course ass it. But the simple fact that you're a cross, your minded that something you should do, whether it comes immediately natural to or it's a little bit forced.
It still something I don't think a narcissist actually asking themselves what let's hope your I get. There occurred at change, let's opium aerial his eyes right and then also we know from our club. You can act your way into thinking differently. That's for sure behaviour empowers feelings for sure. That's a very good point. Don't you force yourself to do it for a while at some point I will just be a habit in it'll, be real in a nurse This can be so fuckin boring. Often I dont want. What did you tell columns that private? What did you advise him to do that? He was gonna, be ok and to mind your business from simple stuff like the guards don't talk to them? Yes, sir, no sir, don't even try to minimal, not that's a fatal flaw,
all the testimony was happening. It was this great opportunity to see how on objective, I actually I'm as a person's when Cohen, was defending tromp alike, disguise the biggest piece of shit reality. I dont like shape of his face. He ate the kind of guy that this, like I filled in all the stuff, then is there watching the testimony? Of course, he saying things eyelike right here so now he said, I bet you. This guy's, a fun, hang lay all things aside. I bet it a dinner party, I like this guy and then I this mama rose like oh, everyone has. experiencing this? What so everyone loved in three months ago, haters guts and everyone who hated him loves, and it just goes how subjective we are as people right, yeah yeah he's a nice guy, but but he got caught up. You know if you can look at it like that. I know you have caught up with a very charismatic swag,
the mother, Fucker yeah. You know Bialik alone golf courses and casinos and shit skies. You re round pretty girls and he got caught up now. You know he got caught up any any. Did the wrong thing a lot at times I don't think that's who he is and what he did is not, who we soon, and we have to have compassion But you know he did some shitty stuff. He did Fisher hung on he's telling himself the same. Why we all tell ourselves which he's saying if I can get somewhat, that guy's got, I'm gonna feel Assyria away. Here. We need to put ourselves in the other fellow issues, sometimes being compassionate doesn't exclude you from being just. We can still send people to pay their debt yeah. Also have compassion, it's not either or I will see man near awesome via enjoy meaning you so much. I wish you tons of luck is thank you. Thank you, school after Dorado a little head keys into relaxation stay to defuse the air. We
supported by ring now. Monica you ve heard me talk all about ring the company by those video doorbells and security cameras can't put a price on feeling safe, but did you know that they have an app to help? You stay informed about crime and safety events in your neighborhood, it's completely free and it's the neighbors out by ring. So your neighbours join a little community where you can help bring attention Anything that suspicious that's going on or anything that's happened in the neighborhood find opposed. We're neighbors were helping out neighbours, Returning the loss, Pat dropping of some miscellaneous delivered package sharing safety tips took the fact is the opposite easier for my neighbors to work together and keep community safe. It's like a kind of a new neighbourhood watch, but by real people back, let's get the community back together, like if I see some police around summer house or someone get nosey end up on the neighbors up and I'll find out what's happening over there. So if you
make sure you and your neighborhood are saved, download the free neighbours app today, good a ring, dot com, slash, arm chair, Download from Iowa S or Android app stores. That's ring dot, TK I'm slash armchair? Make your name had safer today with the neighbors out by ring and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soul, mate Monica bad men. Just some good all facts. Never mean and know how beats all you never saw. we'll burn in trouble with the facts. Since the day he was born a well we're going full circle with the dukes, a hazard themes, she never had our lives show in Detroit somebody hello
we're in a log cabin known as MIKE, stands and robs the just really Roslin with his head. I live show in Detroit. Someone made up a song fact: checks on saying: well, taught you to sing a viable, The lyrics were so complicated. I could only retain like the first line. What was the song your real fire one when you back and facts as God, it was very well. I was wanting to sing. I felt it was those moments like on that british version of star search, our american allies, ever like an old girl comes out, then Oleson. She opens up her mouth and angels. Why? Out? You know we ve all seen those momentous
moments in reality shows where summons an incredible singer, so it is waiting for that man all of a sudden, just start singing variety or something that's. What has prepared for workers is female partner said he has a song buddy shy and then, after all, this is when this house share that good led up intestine rather letter revelation. I hear you and I can not get our arms around. That word. We want to say a revelation, but we want to say past tense of it and then we say revel at all. Which is not as not that's like when you're revelling in some thing. Yet this is a revelation level, asian all relational any who hit that did not happen and that was ok still lovely. It was dark little boy, but again, if he had just been won, Pavarotti Alison? What a thing no witnesses have liked: equitable Society man yeah. We only a few gas
Are we exchange telephone numbers and now he and I are texting, no real connection. add inaction. She who can action, did the name of a shoes. Tourism said be now that Sue gallery or french connection. What does he taxi about private stuff? You know, I rode, why can say were taxed, he went on a detail what he's sorry tat the wall. The theme was it necessarily what he said as much as we made it a french connection at the shoe gallery. He was interesting to the big time you went to prison himself fascinated by prisoners. I imagine many of us are because it's the ultimate fear yeah. I was trying to tell myself as a month I'm really upset, and I'm just haven't. I Elsie Day and grinding over stupid details of his room. I myself one not in prison and I'm not dead, does really the only two things you can't really deal with well. In this case, he did deal with it, but yeah. I think You do deal within no thanks. I don't We that experience I'd rather not
It also see see our people get there. Oh sure you now, could have ended up their competitive indefinitely living incidents. Well, one for certain, you Are you gonna tell us where I'm sorry, I can't omitted the thing I knew but is of an eleven. I can't say that I love I shouldn't say and it could have gone to prison for sure run a dinner at the same time- and I think I told him that I do have a slight fantasy of going to prison, just a read all those books, I'm supposed to read that I don't know how I'm ever going to find time to all the classics, like. If I was in there. I could really right a good book. What the hell else would you do online weights? In my fantasy, I exit prison like a sword, Nigger J D, Sounder chap amazing writer, humongous biceps. I dont think I have done that may think, take out the present, but I'm trying to really go through all the things in my brain now.
I haven't you, could it committed vehicular manslaughter emulate Sunday night? Now? No, no! No! No! You would now I'm just saying even new, whose oh yeah right rule file or you could find yourself or what about it. M conspiracy a set up a frame up eating I will be involved in that you have someone didn't like you and they were like I'm Pinta crime, Oh, oh, I thought you man. I was framing somebody else. No, no! No! No! I'm talking more like the fugitive. There was a man in my house, man and one arm pointed at me- I've seen it
using the fugitive Harrison for unseen? I'm sorry, that's ok, you're off my plane. I think I do an Ok Harrison Ford yeah that sounded pretty get or that M magic special. We watching us get the fuck out of my house here that David Blaine, especially on net flax. Now he does four celebrities. It's so fastening India. He Harrison forward. He really stumps them. He really blew his mind, yeah move for girl in my house, and they have it. You know another obsession late night or other than John DOE. The actor is Harrison for and that so many of his movies, the bulk of the movie, is him reacting to either turbulence on a plane or a big explosion. He's always run a very physical career in the air force, one film in particular. He has a whole set peace where he's down The galley in that plane is just thrown
side to side, but of course, in real life nothing's happening. The actors is having to throw himself around the sat, yeah innate nigh. What's that particular sequence over and over again, because he's really Elinor Ray and we were imagining that that scene was price shot after lunch, he had our real big lunch so he's down there, we're just thinking boys prompt close to throwing up in those sands. The Allah physicality with a buffet bar style Brain Cheesy, a marble check him all right. So he's sad. Jewish people are also obsessed with pimp. Oh really, I don't really find anything about that all cars by new you brought up the german obsession that we ve already covered right, but since then,
you have spoken to some Germans and asked them if that I'm an indian yellow- and we asked them if there was any truth behind that claim, they said no there were off put. Will they were pretty perplexed by the? even the question. What are you talking about so in our research? So far we ve gathered to hard knows that. That's not true. many whenever really be objective about their own culture, the Germans it in some kind of study of the american character. I would probably trust their conclusion, even maybe more than Untruss our own that's chair, because anything. It's the naive, realism, right, they're going nowhere have the same obsession of poop that anyone else has you just assume whenever you're thing is in your culture is standard around the world yeah, but you said that they have thirty two hundred words for shedding and they don't know. No, no, no, not at all will actually have a number that set out its chest. They have multiple words awry, but there's
is a lot of words about analogy. Remember that analogy: no melody, anal, oh ok, ok, and what I didn't salmon, ass one about this was shit performs a number of bizarre linguistic duties. For instance, a term of endear meant was my little ship bag. Let you go, I think if we may be then like do you say then probably say no, oh. We should find now Lucia Simon dummies shit for a lot of stuff Ojeda. Like that you just like back, you say shit. Ah, the cereal is very shitty means good, there's line on replacing it with far roused replacing with everything share like he says, a lot about human for things that are tasty. The word for shit. I had a lot of means, ok and then there's a lot of folk saying
like as the fish lives in waters, so does the shit stick to the asshole? So here I mean, if that's a famous german proverb yam, but maybe rave involved, because it doesn't sound. like a pretty thing to say as the fish swims in waters. So does this should stick to an asshole in you go like thanks dad. I am going to try out for the track team, what does it mean as the fish lives and why, like is a judge, has always shit stuck to an ass annoying. That means it's the shit's nature to stick to an asshole as it's a fishes nature of being in water. Ok, you know what you get we mad at boot for sticking dear bottom cheeks, because that's its nature, I'm gonna be mad about it bodes inconvenient, but the shit's doing its duty de, I think its duty doing a deal
but even further the I e spelling die now: ok, cocaine, psychosis about cocaine, he didn't have the same reaction, the cocaine you'd know: cocaine affects people on a variety of ways, while some people may find that using cocaine allows them to feel happier and sociable. That's? U other people feel the effects of paranoia or symptom someone schizophrenia, which was what he had yeah cocaine and do schizophrenia. Now I have and a person on Instagram, who is a chemist who did reach out about cocaine Alina three time, re uptake, inhibitor, dopamine serotonin, and no row pan african noise,
now far nor Nora happen. Efron, that's a hard one nor upper effort. Now Nora Efron, yelled, big director yeah thanks, you pass, I think here, oh, but while I'm talking about armchairs, I just want to say One thing that I failed at doing in Cleveland on Sunday was to call out ed hips. Hiv p S. Ed Hips is who runs the cherry companions, I was he in Cleveland, he was in Cleveland. I was gonna thank him from this day, job me and then I just got flustered. I also forgot to thank lazy boy am cries of our Pacific out. I was a topsy turvy. We had driven from it drawing a way too many white cat ass wealth. You eight twelve. Eighty five, We got MC argument on the ride from Detroit to cleave about what was better white Castle or Crystals Ceylon ongoing debate. Yes, and we then labelled them just for
I'm inconvenience caskeys increases, so we saw a Cassius I pulled in ordered a number nine which was twenty burgers for arise in. You are appalled by that order. Yeah- and I said trust me- this is gonna, be the perfect amount for the ride off by two or three, You are right. We have gotten the ten now but an hour now gives you a six all live longer than I twelve months to being thirteen, because there is only two laughed when I threw the bag out the Pacific had enough water when we were daddy dunes, onion, odor, variant, from the Cassius yeah, but you did. You did say that they were delicious. They were. That is exactly like crises and I love, and what
love most about castles and crises. Is that that bottom bone becomes permeated about halfway down with burger fat in Onion Greece in it is what paste I prefer the gear but you like a hasty either way. It's a slurry of delicious damp brand, oh god, oh Kayser, Wolf of Wall Street needs a part of that whole thing. And we talk about that. But I got a little nervous. Some people who had seen it would not understand what was actually going on do unexplainable boy, don't know that I could. But I will just say that that movie was about two gentlemen. Now Leonardo Dicaprio and Jonah Hell, I forget their real life names, but those are the actress Panem and they had a humble dump scheme on Wall Street handing out super rich they're, both attics and then ultimately, the
thing collapse in one of the companies they were pump and dumping. Was the man Yams Jordan Bell Fort easily? Aren't the Kapital in spite of his memoir Jonah help. Donnie Ays off, who is to use for a year, which is so interesting, childhood friends, ok, I'll pump and damp is a form of securities fraud that about artificially inflating the price of an own stock through false and misleading positive statement in order to solve the cheaply purchased stock at a higher price. It's also the term when you're trying to get pregnant, oh sure, as also the term for if you ve had some alcoholism and yet another pomp. Your breast milk and dump it so the kid doesn't get drunk down I've her, but I Devlin called the time when I was trying to pregnant Christmas pomp and dump arrive, pretty good way to talk about getting pregnant. True people's k, people you take that and use it if they
idea in out some of these schemes and fraud. This sort of rose him at the beginning. I feel I could happen to me. Ah, yes, we do have some grey area like insider trading like I never really fully understood why insider trading as that bad em, if you get information, how can you not sure? How can you not act on it? They have actual concrete information that the general public debts and steam doesn't have. Yet if they have that information because they work at that company or there are a lawyer that knows the way, a court cases about to be decided or many different things that put other investors at a disadvantage to them than its insider trading. I know that, but I just don't like if you work at the company you just you're not Why if you work at the company you're not allowed to to be investing during those periods?
right, not unlike if you play for sports team, you're not allowed to put a bed on that game in Vegas re innovated sway, the gaining a new company generally have shares of that company right, but few work at eighty Anti, let's say, and you have a million shares in you- find out that in eight days there about to announce their earnings report in its terrible. You can't sell your stock eight these before yeah and then announced the news you gotta take the ride with everyone else share I just yet it's not like walking into a liquor store with a pistol in demanding the cash register by death feels very like a clear line. You ve stepped up over yeah, whereas some of this stuff does feel a little grayer. Well, it just feels like you're asking a lot of that person. Will that's why I believe in regulation. I think it's too much to expect of an individual
have an opportunity to quickly make, but I remain as amount of money and think that they're not gonna do it went in there mine, there's no seeming victim examining all what, if I don't my one thousand shares. What's that really gonna do to this overall market that has a volume of trillions and if I didn't know that I still could beach selling that they run is a lot to the latter. I just the person, not what do you know, yeah step a little over the line. I now I think people are gonna, be mad at me for defending their pet forbade sympathetic to yeah. I just really am. I just can see how most people would fall into that trap. Here's another How deep does it extend? Let's say I knew Warner brothers had spent five hundred million dollars on a new DC movie, and then I got invited early. Do a screening of that to give my opinion to the director or something- and I saw it was like. Oh this things, a fuckin shit show it
no he's not gonna work, I legally then go short Debbie be stock, see I think yeah He's out insider angling is, but that's what I'm saying like: how could you not when you're about to lose your fortune and yeah million being more tactical communist shower the stacks? I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go get. I'm gonna go rent some stock, a thousand shares. I said, but today, eggs are not moves, gonna come out and do terrible in that's all? months down the road by him back up in return. The shares
the line is so thin between, like the big short guy, who he didn't know a hundred percent. Just like you wouldn't know a hundred percent, basing the movie you just would assume I out. This is bad news. Helen you! This is gonna fail. One hundred percent you dont know ears as take other Erdogan, specifically about the cushion bail character, yeah, the things that he was investigating were you he had figured out which bundles of mortgage. Security up. I had reached a tipping point of toxicity. The records he was reading was available to everybody. Anyone in the world could again the same research. He did That's true, that's guess, that's the difference in he actually didn't have any inside information. He wasn't like mean tipped off by any of these companies users
doing greedy little evidence, yeah yeah public violins. Here then I guess the one about this thing would be that does not everyone has the ability to see the movie beforehand, yeah right through so many other ways she of seeing these secondaries about the traders moving their whole operation in Connecticut, because it's that much closer to the source of the DSLR, the t1 line that all the trades happening on. So it does hit their computers like point zero, zero, six seconds faster in just having mad at me. and then she can do all the real time. Micro trades just based on that advance, they have in the fucking
wow! That's it! There's a lot of people looking to benefit from any wriggle room. Yeah fascinating, be used everywhere. Spending thirty one thousand dollars a year for lorry laugh and to be in prison and yeah you're right. According to the Very Institute of Justice, incarceration costs an average of more than thirty one thousand dollars per inmate per year nation wide in some states as much as sixty thousand. There is no longer the sun Jerry Beating, maybe we may be did maybe because I did remember both those numbers. You do so. You are ones who, like New York, state reserves in your statements. Fifty nine thousand parameters, areas in California. I agree look. I don't like what happened there like she's gonna, be imprison, you're exactly on aid, where things are going to do it again and now, after the public shame our guy,
yeah. So we want to correct people's behaviour. Yeah! That's what we claim to want. I think her behaviors corrected for people who want punishment. They want a punitive system, that's kind of, I guess, a different mindset. Yeah I mean I guess, if you're trying to even out the scale it's like. Well, yes, this rich white woman should probably suffer yes, suffer like all these poor minority groups are suffering so that way. I kind of like here what you gonna silver she'll, never be on tv show she'll, never wore right like our career. She lost her career over that look. I think it's grotesque. Yeah must be clear. I think it's grotesque. They were doing so embarrassing, but other people doing comparable crimes. They might get community service for four months six months. Maybe they do thirty days in prison or whatever they're allowed to return to being a doktor or nurse or any occupation. So she's gonna suffer permanently. She not getting it.
Nor is felicities. Hoffman they're gonna pay a pretty darn tall price further in the Irish I would actions and most people that entered the prison system when they come out. They have a very hard time working because we have that on their record if they ve entered as an unskilled, hourly labour, but if they ve entered the city, men they returned to be. Instead, man like Steve Man, was allowed to continue to have a shoe empire. Yeah lorry love them would not be allowed to, but I'm talking about like people who are in jail for liked small drug crimes, but those people Didn't enter as lawyers or yeah you, company owners, I'm saying whatever level job they entered with a pretty much are gonna, be able to maintain when they exit share. I'm just trying to say in general, it's not fair for just like the rich person who's a movie star to evade that kind of punishment when there are people who have nothing who are in jail, ferns, equally or less
our crimes yeah little. All of these things are really just two were debating about what our stomach feels and when our brain, feel so lorry Laughlin. Do I want thirty one thousand year coming out of our budget to punish her and my argument is she's gonna be be punished, don't worry, worry justice be administered. Why should we pay thirty one thousand to administer justice when, just as has already been administered, we should have the ability to values that situation that I feel bad about out. So many people imprisoned, Soda Y yeah drug users. I dont think that we should spend thirty one thousand yeah yeah. I think it's preposterous tat he too, but since we are, is it fair? If she didn't have to serve it sank it would that be fair because we are punishing people there. Let's make it equal so
a lower income person cannot bribed their way into a college for their kids, but let's say a lower income person blew the dean of admissions at a school. To get their kid in. I don't believe that person would be sent to prison over that or jail. I don't think that's a jail able offence if you're low income in you do it now, but I dont think that an actual crime sucking addicted, get your kid in yeah. How could that bribing? You could say that they were just doing like you can prove that that was to get them into school. You could cause if the kid didn't have the grades or the USA T scores or any of the objective or qualifications.
go? Oh well, then, how did they get an oh? Well, the dad blew the dean of admissions. All that's how he got in the becomes quite easy to prove. I dont know, though I think it's more greatly. I think you can get out of that far easier than seeing a trail of money. Ok, but look just assume this hypothetical that the debts yep. I blew the dean, the missions, the dean of emissions, that, if you blow me I'll, get your kitten now all that's been admitted to do you think they send that dad to prison. I don't for blowing been. Are you saying you don't think they should? Are you don't think they would not only would you argument was she should suffer the same consequences that a person of lower income should, My argument is, no one should be suffering those consequences. I don't think she should be impressed. I don't think any of those people should be in prison. Okay, but you said if they're going to put people in prison, they should put the rich person in prison, and so I'm answering that question. I don't think they would put that
or income person in prison for bribing their way into a college. I know now I don't know if they were. I think they like putting people and present, especially like putting minorities and present yeah. So I don't know my opinion. I dont think they'd send a dad the prison for sucking the dean of admissions off they be like you got here, just desserts. Aroun knows you blew the dean of emissions. Maybe I am allow last thought on. The lorry thing is just the crime in what's repugnant. Is that her kid took the place of someone who deserved. be there. That's the injustice saw its interest in it is it's a scale. It's a sliding scale, because the kid who didn't have to work in high school and had more time in a study and also had three tutors to help them get a good scorn. Essay t that person had a bunch of stuff.
that took away the slot of someone without that stuff, so it's like a seven on the spectre more of six or whatever it is. It is interesting were all appalled by the ten which is outright buying a slot in their yet there's things pretty close to it? They don't seem to bother anyone yet that's true, but in the case of the tutors and stuff like that, that kid is still having to put in effort like you could have a tutor and still do horrible. Yes, dear parents can put in a lot of energy and money and to you, but you still have to deliver, and these kids do not they did human and you have to deliver with great distance from people who specialise in how to do well on that task. You know one husband was on talking about this. I just think
That's a humongous advantage of its not in its not as big as an advantage is your parents put building a library there, but it is a big advantage, is a huge advantage that this is a really can advantage. It just feels like stealing a little bit of a difference. I just think a pudding kind of arbitrary mental barriers on when we're defining something is stealing in one word, defining it as an advantage and which is so little more permeable to me personally. If I'm, young sixteen year old, who has to jobs to help support this family of brother scissors and there's no way I can do extra Kircher liner reason is no way I can be on the mathematicians like that. Such a brutally different situation to apply to college in absolute that deals very unjust to me not as engine, this is the last thing: the white, unjust yeah. It is
remember when we had Dan Savage on did a live show coming out in backstage. She was telling us is very interesting thing that he spends a lot of time in Graz, Austria, incidentally, where Swartz and hammers from he's runs a lot of time there. He is a really good friend than he is around a lot whose austrian in the Austrians always really amused by how Americans speak to wait, staff and different sure yeah positions that are low pain where their over the talking to their waiter, like oh yeah, oh right, grey of thank you so much as a fuse about pouring of kindness gap and they don't do that in Austria and the reason they don't do it. He theorize, which I found really interesting and I think he's right- is the people there get paid a real,
way gap. Synergy error is like talking to an architect, yeah they're, making a good amount of money and they have great healthcare and there's nothing to feel bad about not carrying a bunch of guilt and- and I think we carry around a bunch- a girl- and I think that this bizarre way we're dealing with the guilt no- and that a lot of the people that are helping us throughout the day are not making their bare. getting by in so. Similarly, I think we all know in our hearts that the systems pretty unjust as far as who's going to college so totally is. Example became a real pressure release for us. These conversations have been going on for ever, but the payment of action it that's the whole point of it- is to even out that scale little bang now, but that's a very and I get it it's it's such a daunting problem to fix in its easy to gear apathetic about
because it seems overwhelming ere it. Certainly we are just such a product of luck, yeah everything. Everything in our life is a product of lead sort. What hospital saying he was saying: trends and forces, but yes, these things that you have no control over. That you're lucky you yeah yeah, he's said Eglin AIR Force Base is the largest air Force Base in America, but I think it's Fort Bragg or Braggin North Carolina Oak population, two hundred and sixty thousand sorry angler, Mariette Glenn when he said I thought he said egg land, that's what I thought you'd oh see, yeah, Eglon e g g alliance or e g lyin, o Gore Magdalen gloom air sounds like egg land by Jeff Garland yeah.
Exactly? That's all! That's all yeah, ok great weight. We gotta get back to our lady. I gotta get back to our lake living last night. There was a very dramatic and sky man Doggies justifies a huge billowy Chris Sharp Rhombus cumulative, crowd in them. High knows Chicago yeah. I could see just the peaks of the buildings in Chicago ashore. Some it's gotta be sixty miles away more six hundred known tat man, what a beautiful sight that was it was really nice where home. I love you. I love you why