Tal Ben-Shahar is American and Israeli professor and author in the areas of positive psychology, organizational psychology and leadership. Tal sits down with the Armchair Expert to discuss his road from squash player to Harvard professor, his trick for mitigating road rage and his psychological approach to solving structural problems. Tal gives tips on building resilience and Dax questions the validity of self-help. The two talk about the reasons behind escalating systemic depression, the idea that humans have more commonalities than differences and the concept of ritualizing positive behavior.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome welcome welcome to arm chair experts, expert experts, I'm Dac Shepherd, that's a lamp in your Monica patent. yeah today, we have a very, very fond and interesting guessed. He was a lecture at Harvard Universe, city and a writer in the areas of positive psychology and leadership. He talked to the largest classes and Harvard University history, positive psychology and the psychology of leadership. His name is tall bench, a higher and higher He has some real tips to getting into action on being happy he's written the joy of leadership as well as choose the life. You want the mindful way to happiness and being happy. His latest book short cuts to happiness life. Changing lessons from my barber should be checked out by every one. He had so many wonderful things to say: wish. I could have taken his class and made me really feel regret about not going to Harvard and taking his class.
Wasn't even regretting not going to harbour, but then, when I ve done about his class I should very, I didn't, do it blew it well, he brought his classier virtuous right, so We now pass it on to you. Please enjoy tall bench, a heart we are supported by the very delicious, very good for you vital farms. I love thy defines they're just the best eggs in the big they get that dance dance, Orange YO, it's delicious tasty. Now I've been told him vital farms for a while. So you know these are great eggs. They could better. They look better, but more importantly, when you choose vital farms, your dollars go towards good. That extends way beyond just what's in your fridge, it's good for the hands vital farms. Hands are pasture raise, unlike that bullshit cage free hands who are crammed in indoor warehouses, vital forms and spend their days on pastures, with tons of space and sunshine. Vital farms is built a network of family farms.
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flash cuban he's. This is my respite from video. I sanctuary away from her and make up How you say that no video you're you're away from this Meanwhile, mine is writing. I think my way from teaching. We all need these recoveries rise, so so we also probably share that. I. Written, probably more than I have acted over the last fifteen years and I've quit writing for two years on. I've never been happier
with writing, or let us say, I have not written Vertue years intentionally and I can't believe how much happier I am in gyro stress the yes, the depending homework that is always on your mind like your on vacation. Yet all you can think of is something that's do work, Sovereign, latvia- I think it has at least for me with perfectionism. So as I let go of, perfectionism becomes easier, less stressful It does not add. Is it a great story that really helps me with writing it? Sam Samuel Hutchison was a philosopher eighteenth century being of the nineteenth century. He hadn't in, events on Emerson on nature and in many others, and he was a perfectionist and you couldn't write so what he said to himself at some point he said: look everything that I'm gonna right now Is it rough draft at the end of my life, I'm gonna write my magnum opus. Until extra draft. Now he never got you right,
his Magnum opus. When, in the interim he wrote amazing prose poetry. That is really interesting, because Monaco heard me same here million times. When I talk to other writers, my mental trick is I I give myself permission to write something shitty, I'm allowed to write something terrible. The object isn't right, something great it simply to write and then, I myself. to re, write and then, inevitably, as I look at it, yesterday's work, it's not nearly as bad as I gave myself permission to be, but it's all tall hurdles rise in really is lacking you used the word permission. You know what one Are they permission to be human noise? My mental Germany, snakes, and I know many of my students. It actually use the are using it yeah. So let me Brief introduction. It is important, I think, for people to understand where you come from how you came to all this ensure
the headline for you is that you were teaching a class at Harvard on happiness and that it was the most attended class in the history of Harvard Sigh taught them surreal longer there are makes now and in New York in Colombia it was the largest class at Harvard not in its history, when I thought it was the largest, but there have been larger. There have been larger, okay great, so you just passed the integrity test you could have just rolled on through that was my or not yours and you could have just benefited from it and anyway you want it, but you won't do it, but yes- yourself have a Phd from Harvard in organizational behavior. You also have a ba and psych right and philosophy. A ha a lot of our favorite people to talk to you seem come from the philosophical bow, the ads trail, yank sands, lot of our heroine
and then you talk there and you've written a couple of best selling books on being happy. You don't have to be perfect to lead a richer happier life and then happier learn the secrets, the daily joy and lasting fulfillment. That was in two thousand and seven and then, of course, you speak a lot. and you, as you said, you now live in New York and you're, not teaching at Harvard anymore, which interests me greatly how one sometimes away from something that seemingly ass, they packs of fulfilment and in and esteem and all those things. So I that was a difficult decision. Yet family decision so rich, ok, so briefly, your from Israel. Originally. What? When did you come here to the states, I came in ninety. Ninety two, my undergrad there was at the age of twenty two mom completing my military service. All right cause. You I have conscription area is at two years or one rears three years. Ok, funding game Russia. Had you pick up any lifetime sales that you are groundwork, yakking patients?
eyes is an important skill appreciation in not remember when I at my fellow students were complaining about the food at Harvard really have ice cream every day in his most little foundation of the respective roles of glaring myself. How did you do with following orders that you couldn't possibly always where thirty seems to be what would be hard for me yeah, it is heartening. I think, if I was in the army today would have been able to to do it. I think there is a reason why kids go to the army at eighteen, rather than than adults, yeah yeah, So you came here and was it how we understand as is nearly impossible to get an Harvard, so how we? It is for us obsessed with fancy copy university We have come up with a term unify all your kind of uniform cited went to lowly universities, Georgia and see allay so we you know, we fed her size, certain want yeah. But how do you
get into Harvard from Israel. So my childhood essentially all about squash I was the game. I was a squash player. I played the professional circuit just before serving in the military, and my goal was to become the world champion, of course, my dream and and then when I was in the army, I got injured and to give up my my professional aspirations I could still play, but not at the highest levels. I met the harboured squash coach and he said you know we recruit for squash Why did you come play college squash? So am I looked into an Iphone? While this is a great plan b? Is yes, my room really was, for I remembered the age of sixteen thinking. What am I going to you with my life when I no longer play squash right right after you, ve had a great career lanes. Yes, now, just to help us is squashes, b
What would you compare to in Israel? Is? It is bigger than a chance here now. I guess squash would be life like lacrosse. Perhaps here, ok, could you have made great riches plain squash? Well, not great riches financially buddy provide me great, rich in the ultimate currency, happiness, ok, but at that time, Did you even have an awareness of that are probably not yet now I just was so passionate about it. Death, and this is what I am trying for six hours a day and I stopped because my body stopped, because I wanted to arrive so you come to Harvard indeed play or you and coaching position there. I play there- I had to give back all the eyes money. I earned, which wasn't that much fortunately or unfortunate, to regain my amateur status and- and I played for the team- and it was it- was really an amazing. Spiritually was the first time for me really being on a team was an individualist and I've been playing for myself all those years. This idea was part of a team
I was at both a challenging and enlightening experience for me what they say? I've watched you bunch of different documentaries on professional athletes that retire and there's a pretty predictable slope of depression that follows: retirement from on professional sport and the people on the outskirts of that situation had traditionally thought. Because they're losing fame and they're losing the amount of money that they're making. But now it's quite conclusive it's the calm, Roguery that really elevates once the quality of life right. That that's the whole that is, needs to be plugged. Somehow he hates it's a lot of things at come with the athletic with sport in general. The first thing is actually the physical exercise per se. So where one of the best predictors of happiness is how much we exercise to appoint you can, of course overdo it. But physical exercise has the same effect on our psychological. Well being is our most powerful psychiatric medication? So when it, when I stop playing these professionals didn't wanna play anymore. I stop doing sports, which was a big mistake.
It's a big mistake that many ex professional athletes make so sports is important psychologically as well right, I'm not a therapist, but if I were a therapist, the first question I ask my lines would be You exercise regularly it so you look at you and I are and lock step because I'm sober I've been sober for fifteen years, sponsored a million guys over the years and my first question when they call the problem with their wives, problem of their job is ones. Last I mean resize go. Do that for one hour, then call me back and will see if this problem has the same weight as it. Yes, they are Sadly, no one even more than that, with my kids, we have three kids I never asked them about schoolwork. I never asked to look at the report Cargan. If there's a problem, the teachable call right, but I always asked them about them sports, whether it's their dance, my daughter or their basketball. My my son's ah, who do or die. Yeah yeah, I'm in
Adam that run of they get home and, unlike how was school because they don't give a shit about me. What did you do? I mean I can remember that single yeah, maybe I'll, focused more on what how they physically got down that day. I actually delta is quick to talk about them. Bars. That is her that ever traveller America is so when you you do know immediately that you want to be in academia or do you think you're gonna go get employment somewhere as a philosopher, one of the many last year was was overwhelmed with you're, so initially I went in to industry actually works in the shipping company of all places. in Singapore of Nokia, email which was the lesson and an amazing experience, because what I did there was a worked in the area of organizational development, So I would spend months on on ships with.
ready, either a crew members very often thirty, from ten different nationality. In many ways it was a lab for me to understand to explore whether its culture is whether you get into real, intimate conversations when you spaniel. two weeks away from shore just by yourselves. So this was a fantastic spirits for me and then I did that for a few years. Can I just ask somebody really quick about best specifically, I would just guessing I've never gone out to sea with any man, but I would imagine the things that we anchor our identity to clear road as we physically leave all the places that those routes exist, that slowly happens and the other thing that happens is also just the space, so this in the nothingness really opens our minds and hearts its meditating for for two weeks at a time and the intimate
conversations with there's a heightened sense of mortality when you're out at sea. Isn't there? Yes, and I do not remember- also experiencing my first typhoon, so we were just outside of Taiwan in any known. The captain, you know showed me, there's nothing to worry about, but I worry underhandedly so and vulnerability in its also big, and it's like looking up at the sky when you're in nature or in the desert feel a sense of proportion. Yeah. Also imagine all the little comforts that you have that normally can distract you from any kind of self reflection introspection all that stuff there. just not there yeah right- and I was there also at time when there was no internet today, this probably internet and most ships, to a really at attaching a once in a while. You would get a telex from shore saying a word, changing your chorus or or something like that other thereat you're on a retreat, real retreat.
It was there one thing that leaped out at you, the mouse from that experience, yeah so the thing that leaped out most, and I didn't think about it until years? to my research and teaching. The similarity of the universality of peace. So where human condition, human condition. You know we were people on on one ship. We were gonna, I'm I'm from Israel. There were people from Turkey, India, Philippine England, Croatia and ultimately, We all seek the same thing and we fear the same things. We crave the same things this much more in common NEA among us, human being, is a human being, and then So I would imagine you are getting a real, a mediates in your face experience with the layers of culture. So there's probably all this sameness Europe's.
During and then you're, also probably witnessing like? Oh wow, these layers of culture are pretty profound than abinger, yet it did happen. For example, we will em, I come from is reliable in an educated in the U S and an inn and and individualistic cultures and they are much more from collectivist family culture, so, for instance, in I spent a lot of time with Indians and for them in a family comes. first in there always are in our thinking and talking to me I was a psychologist on board, so to speak, be talking to me first and foremost about their families. Yet career is important and they need to make money to provide for their families, notes all about family. I thought about this year. In contrast with, our individualistic society. What do we think about what are our values and in nice? and time at Harvard and with other very successful business people who, in her graduate from top universities and they're, not happy
They focus less on the real important things and again our cultural differences in terms of focus and yet then need is universal. Yes, Well, we can only escape our biology to such a degree right. We are a social animal. These are facts. We are social animals we have in general, we we cohabitate with at least a hundred people. We have a pretty predictable family structure So you could transcend that. But there's gonna be some sense that you're off course a little bit right. We can feel it. of about five hundred years ago, the british philosopher, Francis Bacon, said nature to be. Commanded must be obeyed, nature to be commanded, be a. We need to a our nature, our instinct and as as you pointed out in a we are first and foremost
Shall animals in a baby's when there are born. They already display empathy, the connection to others. Ok, so you so you get interested in organizational behaviour and then so you go to graduate school to learn more about that one of the most interesting views. We ve heard in a long long time was with an organism, nor by April a psychologist, yeah I'm SAM Harris's podcast was Adam. grant yes, yeah yeah, so Adam Ground was my students, oh now, as an undergraduate one of my favorite all time, students and yet he is he's done a lot of amazing work in the area of organizational developing. Why was noticing a we're? We're parallel as the he seems, to be mildly obsessed with Thomas Edison, and then you ve got a children's books about Thomas Edison yeah,
yeah. Maybe you infect him with your love for Thomas Edison. I don't know, but I talked a lot about that. Thomas Edison, you know what one of the sound bite that I repeat over and over again in in in my classes, to my kids to myself, is learn to fail or fail to learn. Yeah and I'm an and Thomas Edison is, is the role model because you never know he's, probably not probably he has painted inventions than anyone else in history, no one thousand and ninety three or something so he certainly deserves a place in the Hall of Fame of of inventors very few people, all recognise or appreciate that he is also being bahrwan failure in the world his failed more times than any one else. We know off in this. some very interesting research by Dean, Simon ten Roma. You see Davis and he talks about how one of the characteristics among those we refer to as geniuses of another, the grating,
enters and producers and creators? He said they fail a lot more than other people, To me, the very encouraging subtext of all that was that genius is a game of quantity, not quality. In some regards which I find comforting, because people can get busy, people can't sit down and have The most profound idea, artistic explosion of all time, but if they do many, many artistic endeavours or thought endeavours, they will come across some good ones. I just think that's a democratizing view of yes, in some way yet very might soon indices, Malcolm Gladwell talks about about this idea and on that thousand our investment and in anything. I remember having this aha moment when I was fourteen, an aspiring squash, I was in a tournament in looking at at my role models, people whom I wanted to be like. I looked at them and I said I m. I understand how I can actually get there.
a lot better than I was, but I could see the trajectory or could see the path, and the path is, hard work. Yes, of course, coaching and learning and understanding ultimately boils down to hard work. yes, it is democratizing and its liberating. Because they, while hard work, is a hard there's, also a part, there are that says it's accessible accessible to all of us, which makes it easy. Yes, yes, You came into this field during an era where, in the eighties, I'm guessing say eighty eight or something like this sums. heavy psychologists, star or psychiatry some measure, what you would label them. They start just kind of doing a data analysis of all the different papers that have been written on psychology. In this period between nineteen sixty seven in two thousand. There are
six thousand articles written about anger, there's forty one thousand. These are peer, reviewed academic articles, written about anxiety, there's fifty four thousand written about depression, wild. There was four hundred fifty written about joy, seventeen hundred unhappiness and in life satisfaction at twenty five or so the ratio is twenty wonder one negative. Daddy's versus positive studies and tell us why. That is an intriguing observation. You know it's. An intriguing observation and important observation in here is why so, first of all new people who are depressed or experiencing anxiety, they are desperate. They need help and very often psychologists who go into these areas, studying russian go there. I therefore person reason themselves or people close to them or because society call and you know duty calls we need to help those people who are suffering, whereas other people, her doing ok, Mindanao downgraded,
they're doing. Ok, that's not urgent and others. The delay in that Stephen Covey makes between urgent and important no urgent, studying, add depression, though it is important to study happiness and its importance for a few reasons. One reason is because one of the best preventative measures we can take against depression against anxiety is to work. On happiness, that's how we become more resilient. century. When we work on happiness or and relationships or focusing on our strength or culture enjoying our life. What were essential doing we are strength, nor psychological immune system now is logical immune system does it mean that don't get sad or angry or envious or anxious. It simply means that
we do so less often and when we do will recover more promptly. Just like a physical immune system, we still get sick but will recover more promptly, yeah in theirs. interesting parallel happening? It appears to me, at least with vat thought process in this thought process going into medicine in general, so were drawn up, I followed you re, I remember when I took a psychological, I couldn't wait to get to the Fuckin psychopath part with the serial killers. I give it to me. I want to know that it has also call yes, I wonder about the path. Allergies are not really want to know about someone who's like cannot mean a pretty darn, happy good content, rotten, it's not as interesting and then So, if you're a doctor, the notion of identifying pathogens and in fighting them there's something which is very
I can see why people are drawn to, but now I see more and more people in medicine, taking this approach of all done. Instead of blasting cancer forgot how to kill cancer. Let's look at how fertile the organs are to host cancer. Maybe we can embolden those those organs so that they themselves would fight off the cancer. We now need to get in there carpet bomb this thing with with all kinds of radiation and what not solve this parallel seems kind of correlated yeah, yet very might so in the west, whether its western medicine or western psychology. The focus has mostly been on dealing with illness, as opposed who prevented illness or promoting health and promoting health is important. Now there is also no danger We will fail to experience, hardships and difficult These we will do no menu mice and especially the young ones, come to me after about a month into the
for us, and you know they really like positive psychology, they tell me down- and they said you were even thinking about this as our career are calling, but were a little bit concerned Then why and they said, look you know you talked about the importance of hardships and difficulties and in how we grow from those, but when you find become so good at positive side, I'll. Do that I won't have these you no difficulties in and hardships and see challenges that that you talk about in my answer is always the same. I say to them. Don't worry. Life will take care of your life always takes care of us. Everyone goes through a span in the washing machine is really no way around it. We have pretty pandemic depression in this country in mental health issues, and so this is a very big big problem right. That is probably affecting more people than I would imagine any other illness that we confront is pretty pervasive,
Depression is pervasive. The trends are also not looking good, so there's more depression. Every year, torso spreading awry The world even looking at a and very happy places like latin amount. there are seeing more depression in Australia. Depression levels are. our skyrocketing as they are in in China. One reason is, because today we measure better so worthy higher levels of awareness, but that's not the mainly in the main reason is because there are many, many more people who are objectively depressed. There are more people who committing suicide in August, and I often ask myself in the field as a whole, we ask ourselves why. Why is it? There are a few reasons in a one reason them. Let me share with you data the Cesar report by San Diego professor, a gene, twenty and damn what she does is every five years we get a measure of the mental health state are fair teenagers every five years. No look inside. He loneliness
the side and every five years nights in a one percent up one percent down, while the most recent findings is that levels of depression have gone up by over thirty percent, levels of suicide over the last five years, have gone up by more than thirty percent. We have never seen anything like it before now, Jean twenty combed. Through the data and a lot of data on very extensive study she come through. and her conclusion was- and I quote it is about the sentence of the smartphone yeah just out of day as far as their labors, and I can't imagine ignoring the a correlation between the cell. Thank you again and again, and I am certainly not against acknowledging technologies. Amazingly people are listening to us thanks. We technology now I met my best friend from when we were twelve thanks to social media with the thing, with moderation Eurasia,
to me. There was impossible, you do yeah, that's the most elusive word in my vocabulary all or nothing on everything you have it. You know that are certain things that we can do now. I recently gave a talk to a group of managers and their spouses, so the couples were sitting there in the room and you a couple of hundred of them, and then I I said to them, we're talking about technology and I said to them so think about it. Dont tell me, but think about it. What's the first thing that? U turn two in the morning when you open your eyes. Is it you're, amazing spouse, who sitting right now next June, everyone. You know chuckles, of course, and the first thing that most people turned to his or cell phone, because you know maybe it's the mess Did they had been waiting for their whole lives if his wife, there, or the world, has come to an end and they need to find out, and we allows your loss lottery two years and you know
I set them technology today, for most people is an addiction. Quite literally, addiction, meaning in their brains, the neural structures that look exactly as alcohol addiction or a drug addiction would look, now imagine this. So you are addicted to alcohol and every night you go to bed with, bottle of whisky right next to you, yeah. I mean that it would never do such a thing. Would you and it's exactly the same when we go to sleep in the smartphone is right next to us, so the first simple thing we should do is keep it away from us, nor have However, some boundaries around it exact of time in terms of space, yeah boy, that some great advice, because do just be honest and own all my imperfections, the only
is it. I don't reach for my phone versus, because I'm even more addicted to nicotine so step one is the name ass, a lot more like the ones I have those do addictions satiated. I then turn right to that phone. It's such a it has to be, I think, a societal shipped, because with work and step as an adult when you're working people expect a response with intense I can send. If you don't get it, you were in trouble or you're ruining the rest of everyone else's job, and it feels like you must be the first person on your email response, Yet they were like you're, a domino in a chain of dominoes in there. All waiting for yeah continue beyond this yeah yeah. That's why No, it's in Burma, and I talk a lot to do. Managers about it, because you need to introduce a different culture in most say a workplace as if you want your employees to be creative. If you want them to be productive, if you want them to be at their best interests, help
set boundaries or or lead by example, and set boundaries yourself, you I wouldn't say that looking at that thing, for me, is Anna. a call to daydreaming, wandering anything that would launch creativity is actually offline. For me when I'm consuming that stuff all reward centre, quick information. If I don't like that, information on the next one in its yet on the little rhesus monkey and cocaine distributor and the cage stay to arm chair. there we are, supported by so now is my favorite piece of Audio Equipment- son, I'm so now: So now you know I was just came through the new House and ask me what the person that would potentially be installing speakers and want not me start hit me with all this bs and I said, listen partner, I'm so now
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Robot thirty dollar value go to Grove Dots Yo Slash Dax to get this exclusive offer grove c o slashed acts, generally. If we can differentiate positive psychology from negative psychology, when you would normally sit down with a therapist, the normal questioning would go what are struggling with lately or are in couples therapy? What what issue are you guys wrestling with and tell us how positive therapy is different from now. So first of all, I am. The reason is with an aim, positive psychology, because it implies that the rest of psychology is negative, and so I would ask you know with the traditional psychology, so traditional psychologists with first, you know, ask me what's wrong It's not working. Why are you here or a couples? Counselor would ask you what is the point I your relationship
an organizational consultant which, for us, ask what's not working in your company or what are you weaknesses as a manager? Is leader. In contrast, the positive psychologist would begin by focusing on what works, So what's going well in your life, let's build on that or what's going well in your relationship, and are you wouldn't be here? If nothing was going well going well in your organization, what are your strength as a leader is a manager, and it turns out that when we start with the positive question will be gets a lot more done and we get it. done better manager's or employees. You focus some strength, actually Not only our more creative and productive. There are better able to deal with difficulties when these arise saving a relationship. If you focus on what's working in your relationship, you in a better place to deal with the inevitable challenges of irritation,
yeah. I have to say I just imagine myself. I have been to couples therapy with my wife, and am I love are therapists as nothing against him, but then the notion of if what was first ask, is what s great about this release shepherd. What do you love about her what's working and I got to hear my partner start with some kind of gratitude. For me, I just feel like my defenses would melt. I too would think of this is something worth fighting for. It would just put me in such a different mind space that eye thing be very productive for change. I learnt at technique from act a friend of mine, a psychologist which my wife and I, have taken on so when when worrying that in the midst of it on fighting and real real conflict than we know we take it at a time out or a time in were equal, We tell the other what we appreciate in the other, and sometimes you know, we tell the other one.
appreciate screaming at them, but we ve got. Your goodwill here, they're gonna, give you there and it actually works well, because sometimes it's ridiculous- that it's funny once you start laughing- that of course changes the equation also reminds you of the bigger picture, because you know what happens when but when we get angry. What is that road rage road rages that when we get the only thing in the world, we can see that idiot you just the eunuch, us off. Nothing else matters oh yeah, and it gives us perspective. This is water bomber Fredrickson, who was the president of the international posit psychology association. She talks about the idea of positive emotions. Helping us to broaden and build broadening bill is a very important concept, because, if you think about painful emotions like
anger or or sadness they narrow and constrict. When I'm sad, when I'm depressed, the only thing I'm thinking about is how terrible things are right now for me and if I am able to even exe is one pleasurable emotion like like gratitude. Like love deny bra, in building. I look at my life from a different perspective. I see different things that are happening. That's another fauna hacking hey is also many people advise you first writer, gratitude lesson this right, tat. Ten things are grateful for then coming back. Let's talk about this great. Let you see this in kids, I remember reading when we first had our children that you know they get in you're really hysteric place. One great move is to put them in a swing. as the area of your brain requires you to to regulate. Equilibrium requires so much attention that they won't have a choice but to folk
on that, even though there are unaware of it, but they will, they will have to stabilizer equilibrium as they swing. It can be a shift enough to just take him out of that. So much do you think we just need to kind of sir honing in or or spiralling over. These specific things exist No. This is also the why meditation, for example, can be so important in a monumental by meditating, for you know two hours or even thirty minutes at a time just sitting down for a minute or or five minutes, focusing on the breath going in and out that can put many things in perspective and in healthy prospect, yeah that's more under. I would say that the heading of mindfulness now right yeah so mindfulness and it's important to keep in mind an all mindfulness this present moment awareness so Many of my students come to me saying I find it difficult to concentrate on my breath. I say about music. I love music, okay, so listen to music and just That's so no music in the background, but lie down eyes, closed and listen to your favorite peace, amused,
yeah and that's that's mindfulness presents that's meditation, and then there's some really compelling data, because one of the things I heard you speak about earlier was studying kids, who are from you poverty trauma. Broken with all these things, that would disadvantage a young kid. There's many many groups to be studied in traditionally your studying. What are the causes of that trauma were the causes of this and that in the you cited a study which focused instead on. What's look at the few people that are succeeding in these situations? Can you you know that this is really the foundation of the field of positive psychology, the signs of happiness, its learning from what works, and you know, as we talked about that, could happen in therapy or re couples, counselling or or organizational consulting, as well as in research. So trade sure research looks at the average. It looks at the majority where, as positive psychology says,
it's important, to learn from the average, but let's also learn from the best, let's also learn from things that are worth and, for instance, if want to learn about teaching. Would you go and learn from the average teachers, or would you learned from the best teachers refund and how to meditate? For that matter, would you go and learn from the average meditate or on the screen of LOS Angeles or from the tibetan monks who dedicated their whole lives to it? You know said applies with a relationships in. If you want improve your relationship. Who'd you learn from. You will learn from your from the best relationships in I think about my grandparents. You know relations. fifty three years together in love after fifty years as they were, I'm assuming when they were in the twenties. Am I learnt deal from them and I apply what I learned from them to my relationship learning from what works, also with at risk population. We look at these areas, things don't look great and yet
There are individuals who made it and made a big our leading full in fulfilling lives. There are thriving there are flourishing. Why not learn from them? What why not learn from what they have done, what they have done differently, what they have done wrong and then apply what you learn from them to others and the more positive sign ology has research this, the more prescriptions it has provided for the general public, because when you study the average you're describing when you are studying the best, potentially your prescribing, So what happened you? There was an extensive study by the United Nations UNESCO, in particular, looking at intervention programmes in ATLAS population areas in thirty two countries over fifty years.
So, whether it's in the? U S in India and China, Australia around the world between the year, nineteen, fifty and two thousand, and what they found sadly, was that the intervention programmes that were introduced there didn't make a difference The long term that, despite the fact that a lot of resources went in certainly good intentions, very smart people involved, there was no impact and then what changed since was that, instead of focusing on the problems on what's not working, they started. getting on what is working. What is working individuals, what he's working in those areas? What is working in the few programmes that are making a difference in just that shift the focus which seems in retrospect, commonsensical even obvious, just that shift of focusing on what is working, not on the average on? What is that?
asked that made all the difference. Yellow there is something almost counter intuitive about that proposition scope. I would just think conventionally or like ok will this trauma. This situation is causing this behavior, so I want to get at not the symptom but the cause, and if I can treat the cause, I can fix this symptom were in this case. It looks like maybe if it was better to have a good down stream treatment for it. I've a lot of thought about my childhood, and I think it's useful and helpful to unravel trauma this in that, but also there's a voice in my head. The goes ok, but what's the game plan, so what were those kids doing the ones that persevere, an overcoat yesterday, that's fascinating and in the results, actually have implications, not just for kids in these neighborhoods. It has implications for all kids, in fact, for all adults, because fundamentally the difference between the kids who were successful in those who who weren't, despite their difficult circumstance,
as was resilience and resilience, is important for all of us, because you know, as as I mentioned earlier, we all experience difficulties in hardships, their inevitable, so resilience the ability to bounce back now. What are the and two seasons of resilience leads to resign as few things. One is a sense of meaning and purpose, so you find it with a young kids teenagers today There is saying the words of Stanford Professor, William Damon, the reserve an existential vacuum. They dont have. Sense of meaning and purpose. You know you ask what you want to be when you grow up. No many say I wanna be rich, I wanna be famous, not nothing wrong with being rich and famous, but that doesn't contributes to happen. Is that not enough in terms of? any sense of meaning. Is you know what difference? Can I mean we ve not mean lot oration. Famous people go down. The substance abuse whole suicide, so it would be pretty evident that that's not act.
and yet you ask many of the young kids today. That is what, for them, is meaningful, so areas sense of meaning and purpose. Volunteering. Giving of course connected to a sense of meaning, contributes a great deal to resort to happiness overall and in particular to resilience so people who give are much stronger psychologically people who don't physical exercise. It turns out that there is a real connection between physical toughness and mental toughness, so today, when kids are sitting in front of the screen for hours and hours a day, it's unhealthy because they're not physically active and it's unhealthy for another reason, because the number one predictor of resilience of happiness for children and adults relationships.
Face to face real, not virtual relationships where we met an expert in here talk about what is happening on a biochemical level when you're actually not face to face with a human being right. So if your communicating solely through these devices that medium rules out you getting an oxytocin release, there's all kinds of chemicals that happen when we have stained eye contact even sustained hogs. All these things right, there's a lot of chemistry that requires actual intimate situations, exacting, there's something else, doesn't develop when we are online and that his empathy and empathy is the air, the moral sentiment it arguably the most important emotion that keeps us today. As as a society is a moral saint society and levels of em you're going down because the time people spend together is going down the other, faceless and their anonymous themselves, and the other person's anonymous
now, when we talk about happiness, it's also important again. I probably should have said this at the beginning, but here we are on this winding road. It would be easy to miss construct what you mean happiness right. You you're not saying that a state of installation is obtainable or sustained ventilation. That's not your definition of happiness. Is it far from it when I first started teaching the class that first year I had eight students now two of them drawn out had left me with six and abroad, an ego I must say I was hundred not for a protectionist. I was having one day, one of the undergraduate dorms and in the student wasn't taking my class came over and he said to me at all. I hear you're teaching a class on happiness, and I said you have positive
and he said my roommates- are taking your class at nice said that's great. There were two of the sick. I really had to be nice to him and then he said, but not all you ve gotta, be careful. I said what in his tall you ve gotta watch out and then I said why, and he said because if I see you unhappy I'll, tell my who meets, and I actually use that includes the following day. When I addressed my students, all six of them, I said to them. You know that first thing in the world. I want you to think is that I am always happy or that you by the end of the semester, will experience a constant high there. Only two kinds of people who do not experience, painful emotions such as sadness, anxiety, anger, envy frustration, two kinds of people who don't experience, these painful emotions, one the psychopaths
and two dead people experiencing painful emotions. It's actually a good sign means. You know we're not psychopath and we're alive. The problem in today's culture is that we don't give ourselves the permission to be human. The permission to experience these painful emotions and Andy intensify when we, when we reject them more years, that the real paradox and can, under my my opinion, in mental health, which is on one side. I am pro medication that can help people, I think there's many many people that require at their life would be miserable without it, and I am. I am pro that yet there's all. Increasing depression and anxiety, as we see in every single statistic that comes out, so I think too are having one is. We now have this notion that we can make every on the same or everyone Vienna quote normal in so that's encouraging a lot of people
to think that their normal may lays and discomforts is a human, are indeed a algae that needs medical treatment. So it is really tricky thing to make a statement on, because I think some people differently need it. I also think were starting to pass on this perspective that you should always feel good in that that's not part of life, and if you are depressed for three days, if that might be a perfect thing for you to be doing at that moment, and you don't need to freak out. Thank you have a terminal mental health issue right, it's kind of a tree key thing navigators. He hey it's a very tricky thing to navigating ass, a very difficult for psychologists for parents to think about and is the right time to medicate because already there people whose lives were saved thanks to medication and medication. Going to get a lot better over the next five years or other interventions that you know play around with our neural pathways and synaptic connections? That's all going to change over the next ten years and going to get a lot better reddit at the
In time there is real value to painful emotions. There's real value, in terms of our ability to experience a happiness in the long term. Our ability to to be empathic and to feel with and for others people and would be losing our contribution to creativity. A lot of it comes from a difficult experiences, so it would be a tragedy if we can do away at some point with painful emotions. Yes, you make a great delineation witches reading one self of anxiety, depression, doesn't then equal happiness, you would be. Easy to assume that off I didn't having signing depression. I would then be happy on a binary thing were in the absence of that you will have the other right. So even without those things, you would still need to be pro active in achieving happiness. That's right, and I think this is also one of the mistakes that psychologists have made throughout the years in and again on one of those psychologists- and that is that
that's just getting rid of depression. That's enough that sufficient! Let's get you from the negative to zero I know it's not enough. It's not enough for two reasons. One reason is because we can have more in it. We can experience excitement, joy and love, and that's not just the negation of depression, anxiety or frustration and beyond that when we cultivate those emotions that we associate with a positive were also in a much better position to deal with the painful emotions when they arise, so in a sense of filling up. My resilience bank, when I cultivate love, enjoy yeah like, if you're a boat and you're taking on water and now there's a storm. Obviously the boat that had not taken on all that water can ride that storm out a lot better. If you do have these other things, of course, is going to make dealing with them infinitely harder now. I have over the years, been pretty critical of self help. Books
in that I happen to read one study that said in general, and you look at the data. People who read self help books often feel worse after reading them, because it lays out a strategy that nearly impossible for any one to follow, and now they just feel like they ve also failed at that and then on the other side, you have academia which has numbers and studies and empirical evidence but completely inaccessible to ninety nine percent of us. No one's gonna go look through the journals of psychiatry, and so tell me the difference between what you do in self help and Accordingly, how are you somehow in the middle of those two things when I- was it my early twenties and basically miserable. I turned to self help. Literature and I remember, reading those books and initially feeding the high and and and buying into the promise of that. Happily, ever after he's gonna believe for one single. What one component of happiness right is optimism, so it can illicit for a period this man,
model that you buy into and then so now you're broadcasting in the future. Yes, this is going to be a nice existence cuz. This is what I'm promise. So you are. You can live off of that fantasy for a minute yeah, so that this is also important distinction that academic research psychology makes between detached optimism and realistic optimism, who told you detached hope and realistic hope so detached time. O everything's gonna be great, no matter what or ram. Now, if you think positive, everything will be positive, or whatever the secret right at Vienna Kind of the Rhine and There's a lot of research showing how our beliefs do become self fulfilling prophecy, but to an extent, you know beyond believing in hoping, you also need to work very hard. You need to struggle, but Michael Phelps than become Michael Phelps, because he believed that you could be best swimming the world. You know he spent beyond his natural talons. Obviously he spent many many hours in in the pool working hard and struggling the same would have
Venus its. It's ludicrous. To think that all you need to do to be happy is have a positive mindset. No, he takes work, takes hard work, just like playing the piano takes hardwood. Just like any scheme. Takes hard work. The comparison I always make is for some reason. Everyone has a pretty good grasp on the fact that anyone whose dieting recognizes that a diet for two weeks won't cure the prom forever that it is going to have to be a daily reprieve right or exercise anyone who's got in shape at one time knows that it didn't just sustain itself right. All these things are going to require work unfortunately or fortunately they just our mental health, is no different than our physical help exactly and it look at also the name of the research on a diet or eating a healthy lifestyle. The people who succeed usually the ones who do not succeed, the first time or the second or even the third time. It's fail
again and the reason why it's that ways, because each time we try, we make an attempt something happened to our neural pathways. Something is reinforced and we may not be ready to persist the third time that maybe the seventh time this is when the neural pathway is, is etched enough. It's imbedded enough for us to create a new ritual and you habit in new way of living. So even they are struggling failure are inevitable part for most people of success. in my own anecdotal experience. I had seven attempts at getting sober and for me the difference was each time I came back. I was a little more receptive to things I didn't previously want. I was like, let me see what you got here. Oh you got twenty suggestions, I'm thinking it by what ten of those I dont want to deal with the other ten. I would fail I'd come back. I was open to try
the eleven of the twenty and then by God. I found a you know: I'd not claiming that I've taken on all twenty the suggestions, but I I I found a number- and I was available enough for instruction that I finally it was the tipping point and I couldn't hold onto sobriety you have this. Some great work by AIR Jeffrey Show. whose, from your alma mater from there, you see allay on NAM, dealing with OECD and one of the things that he talks bad was so. Let's say you know you have this urge to go back and check the door again, and he says even if you resisted, for one second or for no five seconds? Think of something else and then go to check the door that one second, those five seconds overtime, make a difference, because the next time you can resistance for six seconds and then on a non. So In other words, what he sang is don't undervalue the importance of failure show
and inevitable part or that environmental steps. Yes yeah into one of the things you said about self help, books that I liked what, as its basically most of them and I am sure there are many exceptions, but most of them lay out something. That's gonna basically require great willpower, and please use your brushing your teeth example, because I think this is brilliant. I always ask my students in classic I'd like you to put your hand up if you ve seven years resolutions the years and you fulfilled all of them for superhighway, no one's, no one's. You know maybe we'll one in two thousand put their hand. Maybe and then I asked in a second question on and asked them. Ok now put your hand up if you a brush your teeth this morning and of course everyone puts their their hand up, and I say what why did difference between the two? Why nobody
fulfils new year's resolutions and everyone brushes their teeth every day and the differences that brushing your teeth relies on habits on rituals, whereas what you need with yours resolutions or Bertha resolutions, you need self discipline and willpower, and we have very little self discipline and willpower. We are creatures of habit of rituals and setting rituals, while setting them require some self discipline. If we take on small steps at a time, so you know so this month for the next four months I'm gonna introduce into my life, is regular physical exercise. Bora irregular in gratitude exercise just one ritual at a time, not certainly not five, that's doable, and once it becomes a ritual. it's easy, you dont need, will power to brush your teeth. You dont need motivation in order to do it, you just do it. Yes, certainly I die.
And feel that anyone who has taken on some kind of x, I have had many different. I had scarcely arthritis, and always the first ten days are just misery. Then I kind of just look up week three and realize I ate that way for a week and a half, and I didn't really even think about it and that's like the sweet spot and of course I was all stupidly, break it and put my toe back in the water. The interesting thing, though, is even after you break it, it's easier to go back, because my then you already have gonna go back to the brain neural path. Ways that are associated with that. It's like almost like right, a bygone or coming back from vacation after you have an exercised exercised before getting back on track. Doesn't take that law Why can t you my own case? I had a failed new year's resolution for a couple years, which was no more road rage, and I just couldn't achieve that. I held at it, and then I had to go. Ok this year, is not allowed to get out your car mental bet. My road radios- and I said you can do everything, but you can't step out your car. That was you.
one and I was able to do that and then the next year was no more honking imo. Hunger sums about the hit me, but I'm not allowed to haunt desolate some unknown piss. That was fucking hard, but I got through and then it became than the next year. I was like: ok, homer, yelling anyone I can be a mad, I can be upset, but I'm not gonna yell at my car and then I ve, no steering- and I got to say now after about five years of doing this- I do drive around pretty peacefully but fuck. It took me breaking it up into all these little things cuz. When I just tried locks up to do all of it. I I couldn't I have a trick technique that I learned from my barber. So my barber says every time someone cuts him off He imagines that instead of an suv, cutting him off a cow just cut him off,
That's his men, mental. You know that John aspects and I have actually started using it and in its good, because you know you use you start laughing when you do it in the end. In your mind, can't hold two contradictory motions. At the same time, amusement and anger, don't go hand in hand stay to arm chair there. We are ordered by wrought these? I think robberies needs a theme song they deserve. Why I give him one: ok, everything's with raw, these, it's nice That is a little too broad, because really they have a very specific focus right, which is footwear for gals. Wonderful air made out of recycled plastic water bottle. See. Never now You would never know. They're just gorgeous the kids. Gotta CUP appears the other day in there. Just good look
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of that the binary of happy or sad or happy or depressed, or how is that not helpful to us now so ever since I got into this field of happiness, studies, and people here. My story, you know that I got it. I came in for personal reasons, because I was unhappy. Can I ask you really quick what things do you think we're leading to your unhappiness? it was the illusion that success leads to happiness So this is the illusion that I have done it when I was a professional squashed- and I said you know once I win the championship, then I'll be happy at once. I get this title then I'll be happy later. It was forgetting to this universe, then I'll be happy, and I kept on seeing that yeah was happy for a week two weeks and then I went back to to my previous state. I didn't know the research and then today, I know the research of, for example, on now tenured professors, no for fifteen years,
this is what they want in and when you ask them, how will you feel when, when you get tenured basic happiest, not ever in and for how long? For the rest of my life, because reading changes now and They do get it as they predicted. It's probably the happy day of their life and then two weeks later there back to where they were before yeah, and it's this illusion. That's making so many people unhappy You mean a war talking earlier about drugs and alcohol and and suicide among the very successful, and the reason is because you know people for many years or told when you make it then you'll be but you know now, you may be miserably schooling and anxious and overwhelmed and depressed, but don't when you get in to know that university of your choice will get their dream job or become remain failures or partner, exactly your tenured, then you will be happy
and then some people make it and some people make it big and they become very success, they can have everything that they want in terms of money and partners there. You know their revered and they make it in their happy and then a week goes past or six months go by and they go back to where they were before only this time they no longer have the illusion that once they make it they'll be happy, and you know the main France between sadness and depression, is that depression is sadness without hope. so they no longer have their hope that one day they'll be happy, and then they turn to answer outside of reality. Now how'd, you exit reality, alcohol, drugs or the ultimate exit suicide
Yes, so profound, I often say a similar message on here and I would imagine it's hard for anyone to actually believe me. So I like hearing that you had that just in the world Akademi- and you think some of it is just your ego- is what's giving you that euphoric bliss of having achieved something because you've gotten an elevated status and then just unfortunately, the gas runs out of eagle quite quickly. It is not a very sustainable place to be regulating from guides units. What psychologists like Daniel Conniston and other is called the he dawning treadmill. You know we're on a treadmill and you know why we get what we want and we experienced this. He Dominic Joy, but then we get used to it. We tapped and there you know a week later, two weeks later, we need the next one. Only the next one. You know that the treadmill becomes either steeper and more difficult, because we need more than we had before. To get the same. Kick yes, you have the top it and then I would imagine that sad example of this,
from a very working class area, a suburb of Detroit in for most of those people they're telling. Themselves? Happiness will be something granted to them when they finally retirement Fortis or now you're waiting sixty five years for this, to happen, and then I can't imagine may be for some people, but I have to mention not unlike obtaining some title shit. com in Florida, the same person I've just now, don't go to work. So we have a lot of fairy tales about sustained happiness through some achievement or state, and these fairytales contribute to a lot of unhappiness. That's another of the grand illusions that no happiness comes when you no longer need to work yeah. In fact, when, when people look The moment by moment experience people except more happiness when there are working, then when they are at leisure or doing nothing, yeah either of those illusions is where most creative, when we're under pressure now we're. Not. We may be put
using more one who under pressure, because we have no choice but worsened not more creative and innovative or children. Children We believe that when they are playing computer games, there happiest they're not their unhappy and it contributes to unhappy later moderation. Again, it's great in moderation beyond a certain point, but and provide the m the high merely more one thing that was taught to me by your countrymen. you have all Harare what's injured, as we have two cells right. Or minimally, we have to sell so one of them is the experience of self, and that's the person plain the video game. Will you can't argue with that part that person is elated or they're happy or their content, whatever it is, but the new It is self. That's gonna, construct the story of your life. When you lay down at night, you can't write a good story from having spent the whole day looking at a video game right, so your kind of always in conflict with this narrative self in this experiential. So especially given the fact that we live the narrow
if self, for much of the times say I sitting over four hours in front of this screen. Then I have to live with the consequences, because my narrative health is one I am experiencing when I'm thinking to what I could have done during that time. There is another element here. There are certain activities that are very easy to get into like tv games, its immediate gratification, it's more difficult to get into. A book. However, the benefits in the long term are much greater. You know it's a little bit like the difference between a one eye, stand and the long term relationship both value, and both are about that. I value the former, but you can get the gap in the joint and the real happiness that you get from an intimate, long term relationship that you do
from a quickie and by the way I would hate for something to be inclined to think that were saying. Like all fun, things are ultimately not in parallel with your narrative. So but that's not the case at all. His tenants say which harder to learn than a video game. I've never played tennis with friends and then regretted it that night or it didn't jive with the narrative. I wanted to tell like that, for some reason to me seems a great use of time. There is a very important point that you bring up There are essentially two schools of thought that have disagreed for for millennia and the two schools of thought. A one says you need to dedicate your life to becoming better h all about the future It's about improvement. You know some of these narratives even talk about it's for the next life. It's not even about this life. Have you Emily religious. If so, it's it's all about the future abbot, we see it also people who are secular, you know it's about, you know getting into their top school. Ok, you run into the topical now get bad job now get that in Obama. Promote and they re on the perfect child exactly.
And of course it does an end not back now, so this is the future school. You know what I called the Rat race school and then, on the other hand, you have that the present school said looking of that doesn't yields good things, look at the unhappiness in the world, its counter productive about the moment present moment? It's all about the now again, that's very by Mary. It is binary and in the question you know which one do we choose and beyond three c s, meaning when he to synthesize between the two, because, on the one hand We are future oriented, we think about goals in what some one of the things that gives us in a meaning and hope and optimism is having future goals We look at ourselves and in the way we look at the world, we want to have these future goals at the same time were also not just future oriented were pressed. And oriented as well- and you know, he'd tonic sure is important to know whether its playing a tv game were in a sexual encounter or in their listening to our favorite music. This is also important. We need to be able to merge the two in a happy life. It's not one.
were the other. It's the end rather than the or in don't you think the plume in pursuit is ultimately Moving that dial left and right and experimenting and going ok was solely Derek, need getting into Harvard. I didn't love how I felt them, but then I got there and I made more time for friends in social things, and I slipped over. That was good but then I went on that spring Break Babo, blonde, Almah, little less happy and sign it back and forth like it, it's gotta be a bit of it in experiment per person right very much, so it yeah Gandhi called his autobiography. My experiments with truth, say my finding truth. My experiments with truth overnight You know if experiment was good enough, regained its good enough for her yeah for us mere mortals and you're. Absolutely right it's about experimenting and trying to some people for whom it's more about no going for those goals and achieving, and that makes them happy and for other people. You know it's more about,
having a goal but more about focusing on on the present. So there is a continuing, in other words on the binary, neither on future oriented or unpleasant oriented what were you reside on that and our different periods in law if were or different experiences, The day when we're Moura Present focused versus future focused yeah- and I don't have much advice for anyone. I tried to steer clear of that, but I am in a town with milk, ends of aspiring actor. So I don't know that you could go to a town that there are more people waiting for their dream to come. True, because you can't get an entry level job at acting, basically either get hired or you don't the few bits of advice. I've had for younger act like. Please don't wait to start living your life until you get hired as an actor, because it's very I myself was susceptible to that. It took me ten years to get employed as one and I was basically waiting for my life to start until I got employed and then the times
where I was happy when I couldn't forget about that for a minute and not wait to start living my life, because you know I'd set it on on some course. This is the thing. The question is: what does contribute to happiness? You know you can look through the list of things in a relationship contribute to happiness. Regular physical exercise contributes to happiness being mindful present contributes to happiness. Accepting embracing all emotions, painful as well as pleasurable, contributes to happiness. Now these are things that you can do when Europe superstar actor more when you are in a waiter waiting to be called for. An addition so that the agreement- and I would really urge people to write that lists down because as you're feeling terrible as we well, maybe even today, you're feeling terrible, maybe we'll be tomorrow, maybe I'll, feel terrible to mount a list is helpful. I think a checklist is very help
yeah and I, in your recommending what sounds to me like a really great list to be mindful of yes, exact in the important thing is to remind ourselves. Do all those things when you have a list. You have a reminder, you know have that list in front of you, because you know if you ask people, so do you wanna take life were granted or do you want to appreciate at what you know it's a no brainer its and it's a rhetorical choice. Of course you know I don't want to take for granted in one appreciate so remind yourself to do so until it becomes a ritual in it. You don't have a ritual Actually, since the nineteenth of September, ninety ninety nine- I have a ritual where every night I write down things for which I am grateful, not least five things for which I am grateful. I started it because the Oprah told me to add a shade, and she said it before. The research on gratitude came out, which was three years later, but you d have a ritual so I don't need a reminder, but I want to adopt that because might my dark
hours are always as I'm going to bed there always the worse. For me, it's when I start really forecasting into the future and I'm foreseen obstacles, unforeseen challenges of rehearsing fights that are gonna happen. So I get my words correct. That's when I really start living in the future for me as when I, down at night- and I do wonder if just being reminded before I I hit the pillow of the things that are working in our just fine, and I am grateful for might curb that, So you know that this is actually one of the things that contributes to to a better, more peaceful sleep. Another thing that contributes interesting me to a good sleep is making lists of the things that you will need to do tomorrow, or even is keeping a journal because in a way your clearing your mind and your subconscious hissing. Ok, now I can let go. Could it's all written down? It's on the list, general, but I'm a fan of journaling of writing
current horn eyes. She was a student Freud fraud and broke away from him later, focusing more on the light rot in the darkness. She has a book called self Analysis and in its your rights about just how far we can go by writing about our experiences. So you know people who can afford a therapist. That's great. So it's wonderful to be able to talk about it, but but even if we just white about things that we go through, that can go a long way, not to mention the value of a to do list, or the value of gratitude list now saw woods obvious to me, as I can Certainly one he's wishes is knowing that you had kind of achieved a couple different things back to back and then realize Hon, that's just not filling the whole. I assume that work. You're doing now became your purpose or one of the things you decided to make your purposes. Did you dig your way out of that feeling in your twenties? What I did is that I did meaning. I took action in an until today.
in words are valuable, and you know that that's what I do know for a living that he's my calling to teach however, I always emphasise in my lecture, as I said: ok You know you ve heard it, and I recommend you read about it and you look at the wonderful field of positive psychology in the happiness studies. Most important, though, is to take action because its when we take action when we experiment when we learned the most. So no personally, what I did you know I started studying and I started teaching it. I experimented with different things and I listened a lot I ask questions of my most recent book is about conversations with my barber. Oh ok, I notice that I don't know much hope it's conversations with my is the subtitle towards a call. It's called short cuts to happiness short cut short. Not my idea, my public
yeah and damn you know, because I learned so much from our view was my barber and I've realised that yet we can learn a lot from self help books we can learn a lot from our barber or are in a taxi driver or an academic study was conducted so important to listen and then to personalize it to apply. It tried to things out and apply it and tried out realistically mean not with expectation, this is the answer. This is gonna change, Mylife radically forever. Now it's all about small incremental changes and there's the ups and downs and in others an important lesson that I've learned in my twenty five years. This area is that I will continue to experience ups and downs for the next twenty five years and hopefully beyond yes,
the best relationships are not ones, worries live happily, ever after a ones with our ups and downs in conflicts and difficulties that are resolved and that's how you become more intimate and happier together in a lot. Life is difficult at times, and it's important to accept a to embrace it yeah the Power I'd in esteem that comes from having worked through. Something really difficult to me is trumped the initial explosion of double mean, and what not, when I first saw the person you know, there's like some kind of foundational difference when you guys of work through things together and grown through hard things beak because that's were intimacy, is created and intimacy is the foundation of a healthy, long term relationship now, so we just
about suppression of emotions and why this is a very dangerous endeavour. Yes, so there is a paradox at play when it comes to painful emotions in the paradox is that when we suppress the emotions, whether to you or or sadness or or anger. When we suppress these emotions, these emotions actually amplify the actually grow. They intensify as I do this experiment, which is taken from the work of Daniel way. we're ass, my students. Okay, now don't think of a pink elephant, do not think of a pink elephant and, of course, what happens. Everyone thinks of a pink elephant. Why? Because, when we try to suppress a natural phenomenon, the phenomenon intensifies say painful emotions when we suppressed them. They they were buying or your mind, is telling you hey. We got a problem that needs addressing and then to have used are drawing to suppress it. It just yells it louder. That's right!
and now what we're doing is were blocking the painful emotions and ultimately, in its like a pressure cooker, it has to explode. Yes, it is research, for example, on people who sent you selves and by the way, more women than men in this research say to themselves. Don't be angry, you know it's not feminine to be angry, and what happens they actually become. More angry in one else happens is that they are more likely to get sick. Because suppressing emotions in is unhealthy with men. It's often and more often don't don't week right or I don't cry, and of course, what happens they become even weaker and more fearful. Loner ability to me- and man is the apex of strength. Yes, absolutely courage is not about not having fear carriages about having fear and going ahead anyway, and we were in the best position to go ahead anyway, when we first
brace our fear, where most likely to egg generously and benevolently when we own our anger right so that it so servers to mean. That sounds a little abstract like how does one do that suit YAP released to help me yet so one of the ways to do it is I mentioned earlier by journaling by writing about it because I write, and when I open you right, I'm pressing my emotions, another way is to to cry. You know shed a tiered how important is that for mental health and physical Talk to people about. It knows who I am. I faff share, yeah. You keep circling. This notion finds when that has what you want. ask them how they got it I would imagine similarly, if you are dealing with some kind of anxiety, depression stress,
sphere- and you know someone that you look up to that- has also gone through that like why not just asked that person what was their road out of that that's good and that's important for two reasons. One is because, though, actually possibly give you good advice. Second, is because your seeing someone who's been through it any merged or continue. Sleep emerges from it, so you see your seeing a role model and that creates hope right. It's helpful to take some time I'm and identify who your role models are right. Yeah, role models whom you know. We know it could be apparent, grandparent friends, teachers, or a role model. We read about right,
and I always oh yeah, you anything about biography, ass. I said the best self help books are not the ones. I give you the five steps to happiness or there that the secret to the good life and are not my books either unfortunate. Best self help. Books are biographies, good, solid biographies because you get it all there. You get reality yeah. So you get the fight tourism and their hardships, and you get the successes and the joy I couldn't agreed although the most inspirational biography I've read, is the Ulysses S grant one by rancher now. Have you read that I will not read it? Oh is it in credit? because you know you grub up just going o grant he's on a fifty dollar bill. He must done some greater whatever dot denomination he's on, I know is a president. He must in a whatever this guy was a failure at everything he tried. I mean he He had a particular military genius and he could lead people in it in an amazing way, but he financially, he was in ruins. Always he was living with his
Father in law and between the war. He was ways any get rich, quick quicks He was in any lose. He was an alcoholic, he battled alcoholism, but man here, this? One gifts and he'd ended up defining most of his life by this one, given it scanner, I found it more inspiration allow the any other stories. Isnt know there were more flaws than there were assets in his tool. Kit reminds me of someone of Lincoln's biography. Where you know he failed time and time again he wasn't elected, as you know whether it was four Senate Oriana. What was it failure politically time and time again. Then he became arguably the most important presidents of of this country. Another thought exam Winston Churchill? also, he was not a successful politician and then war broke and his best came out. As you know, the leader of the free world,
yeah. It's all I want to say is that we recognise very flawed guy and a lot of good dig recently of Winston Churchill, but if you only to leave you just look at his side each to England when they were getting aerated that deserves recognition at absent the way he inspired a broken country, but that's also need in point. You realize every biography your order, biography, red or every history. Midwinter sent its not flawless, it can't be flawless and the thing is is not look at it as a package deal, so it's either a perfect or are we discard it and there's nothing we can learn from it. I listened to a lot of lecturers, line or I go to lectures and people always say you know. So, should I go to it or is it a waste of time and even that the worst of lecturers? I pick things up. You know it could be up things up that, I don't want to do as a teacher, or I pick up you know now get I
and take on in, and you know, changes the the way I live or or teach. So it's important not to look at things as a package in today as a culture, we've been doing it with being dismissing people whose strays yeah, just because there were flawed, were all flawed. Given, I would argue it perpetuates one of the people's biggest stumbling block is that when they find a role model, they find something there aspiring to. They know they have secrets in their a piece of shit on some level, and so they go while I'm not that person that simply because we ve been painting a false picture of all these people, so find it weirdly more comforting, more reliable. When I got all the sky was sucked at this. He was short sighted on this farce, on that he was a xenophobe here. Buddies includes Here to me, I find it to be more helpful, absolutely more helpful and also the thing is when our expectation is to find someone who's flawless. It means that we are also expecting this of our selves and then means were less likely,
act. I made so many mistakes in my teaching, in my guaranteeing in my relationship, not you not learn from them I hope all continue making mistakes. If I didn't act, I won't have made those mistakes within we have and and grown so mistakes are, are important. I agree, we Shan T throw the baby out with the bathwater. as you know again again, going back to this idea of no Gandhi, my experiments with truth. It's about experimenting and if we had only taken up experiments were we knew we would be successful. What's the point, boring writing experiment. are some of them will fail and a good thing that they would yeah. I think we all need given the latitude took to fail and learn trial and error our way through. Ok, so your new, is called not commerce. Since with my barber short cuts to happiness conversation to my mind. Yet one as I come out, it's out. It's all right. Now, ok, great so doktor Tall,
and your hair you're an amazing person to talk to. I am I'm really glad that this is your purpose and that your spreading this- and I understand you- do it kind of now- is perfect. It is well right. You have an organization called potential life. One word potential life, and you go around in. You talked organizations in you talk to schools and teams and all this. Yes, we dare through potential life. My partner, Angus Ridgeway. I work with their organizations and I just also cofounded the happiness Studies Academy where we offer online courses in happiness studies, whether it's for people who just want to become happier as well as for teachers, consultants, psychologists, that would actors to your point. There would be a way to take action, and so you would type in this address. Where do people find this website? It's on my website, Tal Bench, a har, dotcom tall bench, a hard outcomes go there take action work.
I'll make a gratitude list in you. Two could be as happy as Monica Badman. Thank you. So much for your time was a pleasure. I hope you'll come back with your next project. Thank you decks. Thank you very much. Thank you. Monica and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soul maiden Monica Batman, no want know. Course. You. now were robbed a tall kinda wars. We even on my own. This is and how it was supposed to be. You know that duet, Michael Mcdonald and patio about its ringing about
its ringing. A la belle o is really really well yeah. They had nothing to do with facts, but that's ok. I've decided sometimes are not gonna obey. You know, like songs that good you just wanna saying one coming with us on this line, then your heart yeah. Did you walk away with any new tactics, forces yeah, I mean I Louise. I wanted him to come on. I read an article, I think those and maybe in New York Times article about say about why so many young people are depressed which she goes into. Obviously, in the show and says you know it has to do with wanting all these things and thinking all these things are getting give them what they want and they get em than it doesn't. And then it's hopeless. So that's what we talk about so much on here. So I was like. Oh, this is a great bet
I am on our climate took a piece out of it. That's really, I think, just technically confirmation bias rose like oh, I value physical activity, you, my kids were y yeah. be saying? That's good boom, yeah good about that yeah. Now, taking his technique of just enquiring about physical activity, they did throughout the day someone I want you do they hate that question when you do today. and then I M gonna, just pull it out of them and you know now mask unlike what physically happened in the day. I bet they're memory of those things is also more Tat is proving to be a little more on the surface. Yeah yeah, that's grey was well figures, but both of em eat shit couple times a day right, so they come home with scratches and bruises and want not every day so they get some appoint two. Battle were injuries. I like that. He said that he does a gratitude list every night. Oh yes, I do
is someone who started I've been wanting to do that and I have not yet, but I will busy busy busy. Well is this I forget yeah, it's just that. Well, we couldn't have done it last night because we entertained your parents, that's right where parents are in town what a hang you guys walked in potentially the worst time possible were about to watch. I think you should leave for showing Gordon Keith are good friend, Gordon keeping the adding a sketch about someone eating a receipt, methinks what else had may be got duty on that recent is right. It is a very broad fraud in Grozny Sketch that we think is tremendous. I do you and I think, bolt where a little nervous at your parents working love it yeah, I didn't think, goes up their alley. I said the same thing and then by God, you're dead had a laughing fit. That I didn't know was in TAT. I now I mean I hate to break your heart, but he laughs like that, a time
yeah and I sometimes it's out of discomfort Oh really, he asked seem like uncontrollable, sustained laugh, yeah yeah I hope that's what it was a now. I M not going to say that your mother found the show enjoyable normal she's, seek it out. Watch I don't think so, but she did not like it. She did not like you in good, roaring and distant, but your dad. I think one of you were there. If you would have concluded, I heard it. I know it s me. I know him he's my dad. He s pretty well. I know that laugh and sometimes it's because things are funny, and sometimes it happens out of comfort, and I think he wanted you guys to feel comfortable because we profess the whole thing with would not thinking they would like it. You didn't want you to feel like that. So will the confusion.
To me, though, was like I feel, like I'm good at what a courtesy laugh. What that sounds like his was really a full bore last year. Still, how do we know? yeah. I think I know, but you know you anyway. I hope he loved it, and it was a great chat opened a lot of fun times with them. Since I've been here, you have yet been really nice, I gotta say, learn my talk to your favorite parents to chat with less nice. What a nice compliment! Yeah cause you're Corky noise particularly draw your father for whatever reason, as you like dad's a day I up and then he just wicked smart, and he has this whole other perspective, which is he grew up in another country, that's completely different from the one. I grew up in the air and I find it really fascinating.
He can't educates us on those things tat had it in my Angela him. Do you think you have the generic issue that a lot of us have where mine is, I played us, certain role in my household growing up and then I've kindest? You know created a different role for me and my friendship circle ahead, all life yap and when I got home I feel like I get sucked back into my old role totally in a kind of gets exam. Lasting, and then I get YAP cranking. I know I know what you mean and I think that definitely exists. I think it really exists more in old friendship circles me anyway- sure bid. The doesn't pay me crazy. this notice. It like we fall into pattern, but with SAM. It's not that I have not. I don't feel it rule, but it is a bad mood. The mood, I definitely fallen to a similar mood or I mean really. I think what is there just an outlet for me,
the safe space. The other safe space, so they get sorted the brunt of all of my staff and think there's an anticipation of that a little bit like and then guilty, because I know that's coming Enzo at all, but I have not felt that on this trip to has been good ogre yeah, So ha. You know taught at Harvard Year which we love Harvard and Universal. It's not a number on a number one is Stamford Year, although I do think Harvard fancier recovery. Then, if I really had to pick a place now yeah, I would not pick stand for You will not know which is interesting. I definitely back then likes the ideas an fern, I kind of real yeah yeah. Now I want to kind of time trip I feel like going. There would be like an entirely different feeling that I get everywhere else like. I would prefer grunted with
history of the play? Yeah, I would feel old tie me. It might be like a whole persona. Could click into Stanford seems to flex all that I would just be me, they're yeah. I also maybe think it's because you know we both couldn't did not go up on this West Coast ride. So there was something really cool about that. Now is, unfortunately, not cool anymore, because it's more regular, yeah yeah. So now it's like EAST Coast seems like a fine thing they do for a few years. You now here I told you- I had a fun afternoon when Lincoln was like four months old. Now is working there we took a blanket to induce honey, Harvard to harbour, I didn't shooting in Boston and then we might even ridden bikes their knowing blanket. We laid out in the Like Commons area in the grass, and it happened to be the day
that a rule is dropping their kids off. To start my niece stout- and I was just watching all these Euro four there's something so beautiful and optimistic. I agree about that moment in their proud and the kids excited ass, a packs of the them the child parent relationship and I Where does witnessing it on a scale of like five hundred people? That's our name in carrying law like I got to just a voice or on the whole thing here, your favor, I loved, of where it yeah that oh and they have so much fun them. That's a real excited no wonder voyeurism real, quick. no. How Doktor Alex was telling us that there are people with trauma,
who will as a non damaging solution to their trauma work with a dominatrix in and they give the non rules and everything- and I found it to be a very interesting thing. I never knew about PBS m- are there are people who want to be spied on are there? People are, I guess they would get. A vision is usually one of you to create some kind of like you could buy like opposing sick story building somewhere in some town. In on one side people get to check in its a hotel, it's a voice or exhibitionist hotel pay, and then you basically stay on either the exhibition aside or the voice or something and then of the two people can kind of co exist in a failing manner. I do wonder, though, if the Voyager would feel like it was an offensive liquid. They get the same charge knowing that the person was in on it. I think the high and
is that they don't know you're learning. I don't know you tell me you're the one who likes it. Why is in general of nudity and then again goes that's cross gender? I wanna see anyone Plodden or their apartment. Nude images like what are they doing in the making a bowl of cereal? Are they going to something sexual about to happen or they going to use the restroom? What is going open the terrorism is in just about nudity may be for you, it is, but I think it has a wider proclivity. Some of it is just observing somebody else's life and being separate from the true is wrong because when I'm like when I have watched people New York in their apartment, the energies eat dinner may be informed the tag and totally watch that and I'm thinking like, I guess, we're all the same. We all are at some point room by ourselves, yelling about it. When you observe from the outside, it looks weird boy you're in it. It feels very natural yeah I now
you're watching a movie against that. That thing that may be same Harris has talked about why one of the big appeals to movies is that you get a perspective. You can't get in real life or you can stare at someone's, face, uninterrupted and watch their emotions without getting self conscious, tat, one others. in about that happening. When you spy on some probably yeah, I like the idea of your hotel, Nilghai nine. We should start to invest in the sure, ok I'll start looking for IRAN to Robert aided buildings are mere each other great. We have to put some kind of Assad up in France or the onlookers from the street can't disdain in the street staring at the exhibition is because people can be walking their children only out they could be triggered by that nudity year. It have to be like a compound of some sore with big fences and you'd have to show idea in pay to get Maybe background check now, rather learning, probably a backroom you're, like a Google campus
as for money? It will be for charity. Oh ok, this is a philanthropic endeavour. Yeah! Ok, I think like a keeps on the, but ok all right. Well, you have enough, I think so. We all give it away to research on pair failures. Ok right ok, so he corrected you because you had said he had the most popular class at Harvard Martyrs Class at Harvard and he said no, he at one point did, but since then, there have been others wouldn't it be mine, blowing philosophic class on crank yeah or Gladys. Our outrage are to be an area outraged at the interesting yeah. Probably not it's not record breaking eight hundred and eighteen Harvard students, that's nearly twelve percent of the entire college rolled in one piper class computer science. Fifty oh, while that interesting introduction to computer science,
then one hundred more students than the seven hundred that signed up last fall, making it the single largest class in the courses thirty year history, as well as the biggest class at Harvard College this semester at sorry. I don't have that exact date of when this is, it could have been five years ago. You know, but now we get into that thing, we're talking about last night with Amy nominations and all that, if you're wrong, If you were the lecture of one of the biggest classes in Harvard history, that's great no memory number one. a word biggie, but it's fun to be number one year. You knew I like again, I've never Burnham ruins. Will you tell me it's or its feels good and awaited state? I links out their second at that time was economics. Ten a principles of economics interesting. These are now what I would have picked. I dont want to either of those clauses. Be done honest with you. I know call me there. Maybe I should have at like elective could maybe most people have to take these
one feels like a core honda, not the computer sign alone, but yeah on class, reassured Well yeah. I come here right away. I bet I had to look it up, but I bet Might I e g one of the classes? That's in those popular again elective we, would be abnormal sight. It was hard to get into ocean, A lot of people are all perversely interested in them. The broken mind of a psychopath, yeah We do, or I had I like a criminal psychology class. I want to say that's fine days together, find out, we had a few those an answer we had like. I had a witchcraft class.
I'll give when you wrote that's cool spirits in witchcraft. That was really fascinating. That was, I did you learn. Well, is a great example of like there's two worlds in acknowledge both I'm drawn towards one world over the other, and that is the empirical world, the fact based world. I feel comfortable on that and make the world them bigots. Predictable but my professor, I believed her like. I came to know her and I believed her. She believed in witchcraft, here's what you believed him. She had done her work in Sub Saharan Africa. She was there to study spirit possession, which, of course, she went there with a very western empirical point of view She did something that angered someone, someone put a spell honour and she got violently ill and she could not come out of it in she was like stock in a little one room house
a wild, basically dine, and they brought in a showman in it, took the spirit out of her and she completely recovered, obviously industry. Two hours at psychosomatic, is that placebo is above as a psychological dep. What did the guy really do. Is it you not, but all that aside, this one time are the two different worlds, Jesus. It's not really relevant this person who had this experience That's our experience day very and I believe her. Yet. I also believe I told you this too. I used to work with a lot of Filipinos back in Detroit only Walkin pipeline. This too, I know a few white gloves maritime Hap half Philippine lands be honest about it, but I always Filipinos. I work with and go They all believed Ngos.
Stories that were so detail, one of them they had hit. It goes down the road and then go from the ghost dripping down the windshield, even though they were going like eighty. It had a gale, ok, some kind of e no discharge from It was an anonymous ghost blood or goes plows hourly LAO, but anyways, I'm looking into Edwards eyes and analysing tell this story. This happened to Edward now. Right and tell you that in my culture that can happen yeah, but I recognise the power of culture and I recognize mine's, not more unique than anyone else's. I am slave to my culture and my logic is sometimes rooted in my culture, which is flexible and subjective. Tat saw, as I know these guys, they experience that I will experience that cause. I don't believe that right kind of can experience it, but I also believe people do experience.
that that is interesting like because I also know people who had like paranormal experiences here, but I do think they all had already a belief in ghosts sure like I'd like to know? If there is anyone who, like? I do not believe in Ngos there just not real, and then they have apparent on normal. experience. So I had one ok, and so I think, here's the big difference for me verses. Many of those other people so me into other friends. Three of us broke into Camp Dearborn, which was this camp behind my house, and they had paddle boats in fishing and all this stuff and then, in the night time they had this canteen aware there was dancing and what now individuals right behind my house whom he had cut summer. So three of us, if snuck in and we go to the canteen into the little dance in every and then we're walking back to my house, which is probably like a my
walk through this park like setting with these different things, and all of a sudden, my friend goes like what the fuck is that in points to this field and in the field I see very clearly a red orb like if it were emanating laser beams. All three of us. staring at it and worst. Long enough in its starts kind of appears to be moving towards us in kind of re gout. Minute and we start running a first on my are those mind. You were also scare of getting caught the right right because wherein there illegally so at first, I thought or those break light some scene no it is someone out a weird role, ass, listening, but then We ran this red orb zipped across this field like covering I donno. Six hundred yards in it.
Second came in, and there was a moment we all agreed independently. Look like a man on a bicycle. Were the bicycle was glowing and the person on it was glowing like it changed in this that we all agreed. Look like someone on a bicycle, but then, when it stopped it became this or begin. All three of us saw the exact same thing yeah and where, like what the fuck was that, so we always then called that the red man, oh now, yeah I never jumped to the part where I'd say that was an alien. That was a spirit that was anything I just simply go. I saw that thing. I have no explanation for I am not trying to come up with an ex my eggs, I recognise I won't get anywhere close to what the FUCK that why did you ever Google? Let s see if wireless that well I mean now. I guess immigration would avoid typed in red meat. Will that would give the wrapper, and that would also maybe give you some racist stuff about native American,
and the chewing tobacco proudly company right lots of things. I didn't I'm Papa through so much before I got to the red orb. I think it after all, like Michigan in Camp air, borne paranormal. You have to put in a lot of buzzwords, but now, let's say that round: here's where culture takes over. So let's say that I came home and I told my mom the story and she goes. Oh yeah, that's red jumbo he die. I ve seen Red John, but three times in your grandma saw Red John by the state, fair Bob. I've always in its confirmed by, like my culture of my group, That's a known thing: I've milling! Ok, why I saw this thing: everyone see right and now it just kind of gains, a reality yeah. So if you know someone in the Philippines sees a ghost, they come home, someone last. We you, ok great sovereign scene and I'm not alone in this yeah. That's true what end about your story, though that's unique.
Is normally people. I know who had like ghostly experience thereby themselves right. In They also leg, they don't get com, Maybe it's not like there mom was like yeah I had a goes is worse than it was that person like, even if they had a ghost experience, is a different kind yeah, never heard of a bunch of people seeing right one year three, the lad and then Similarly, my mother, who I really hold to be one of the most truthful people, I've ever met. She just doesn't sugar code, anything or lie she has had some go experience or dad died that she woke up and some was rubbing her feet. He had this king of your whatever their feet were being robbed. Now again, I dont personally believe Ngos have yet. I know my mother's, an alliance of course This is not by an area like the whole right right, because that just cause she's not lying, not lying, but that doesn't mean it was a ghost per se. Of course,
I will say a lot of these go see things happen in the middle the night is young, people could be dreaming yeah. I don't think your brain, they could have what I hope and I was stuck in things are happening where your half in half out your sunk employs. They are yeah, so I guess what I'm saying is for me to things are true at the same time that Lillian Opposition- one, as I don't believe in goes to a deadline- we saw goes that girl, Europe's aim yeah ultimately, no matter what this world make an argument for the non logical empirical side of life, which is all this data were receiving, is coming through this human filter in this human filled is not a bright gaily way. Objective, measurable, there's, nothing scientific about the experience now. it's very hard to see outside of your perspective, NEA Ok, Thomas Edison,
oh so go to learn Here- was the professor of Adam Grant yeah? Oh my god. I loved that moment. I wanted to really make a meal out of it. We then but real time discovery. I was excited about that. I'd like to have him I'm here at some point: yummy too, he was a great interview near so Thomas Edison, and he said he had one thousand ninety three pat So he had. One thousand ninety three patents in the United States, but five hundred and twelve that were approved in countries around the globe. In addition to the thousand ninety three, Maybe it means of those Well yeah, world widely. Yes, so that any was right, you know what I'd like to. Google is Thomas Edison Stupid, isn't engines, some others captain I have a level of his inventions, but we won't be able to say whether they're stupid or not cassettes like type wheels for printing
printing telegraphs, alighted, Romagna, yeah, there's no way for us to know. They all seem logical to me. Solutions for chemical telegraph paper, he also invented the electoral graphic vote recorder, Edison's first patent, permitted a yes or no vote via one of two switches, Washington How many men were not interested in the debates in the invention was unsuccessful. Hoop sees yeah, sorry, Tommy thinking when by Tom or Thomas good question, either you I'm by Thomas I did too and that simply because I've I recognized him as a smart person. Lives, have elevated form of tar sands. Fancy fancy yet another, fancy there are neither are they use a workshop yeah cutting the edges of his fingers. Often stifling then reverse my position. I think you won by Tom. I think you went by tee bone.
While a boner I'll be there would arrest so You said that it's good to put kids and swaying because they can only focus on the one thing. I really find that exactly by men, it is good to put kitten swings to annex. Then I found out people overdo it. What's overdoing eight hours and they too many hours also to many distractions, like a lot of them said like just swing without like these things in front of us that's for beer for babies. I remember GAB aimed against that that if you just put a baby on its back yeah it'll will find a million things look at in the ceiling that entertain it. But if you make the entertainment so loud and in their face your Anna robbing them of that suggestion was. It is crime cryin. If you put them the infirm, they will stop. That's right in that becomes a point where you used are going we'll know the babies in danger of me.
flip email yeah. I had a ideal parenting technique, but no shifting into survival technocrats What denomination is Ulysses S grant? Ah, the fifty dollar bill a good, and he was the eighteenth president. Oh number, eighteen now just quickly. I, like the fifty dollar bill. I think it's fair TAT. They might be my favorite bill. Really! Ok, yes, because when I go get money are the atm right and I get twenties and I generally get five hundred I'd say once a month I go get five hundred dollars out now, that's big wad of our ills, yeah protrudes from my pants. or might think I'm around you now, however, that one where you rob on people is however, as with some kind of, Now that I had a weird name. I forgot I had to look it up on the last picture. I put any in right now, then the or other options go get fired.
One hundred dollar bills in those, no one o breaker, always a pain in the ass. No one's happy whipped out yeah, it's not a good option, and now the fifty bone, sweet, metal, ground, middle ground, minimum bills, but their passable, ok, see you point I mean I think many people prepare taken out five hundred. Certainly But few are your right. That's the way to go. I get twenties you! U twenties! I twenties five hundred your opponent, six thousand bucks and cash a year, which is a lie. And yet not crazy, no one out five hundred bucks a month- oh
sure ledges in cash. I think feels like a lot to have on you. I just have this proclivity towards cash. As you know, my wife, never poles, money fact she's pulling out of my pocket. So when I say a pull out five hundred a month really at least two hundred that is getting ripped out of my wound to her child very well, she needs was course she's dependent, now salon yeah to certain cash. She tips. Really well, she needs that cash godammit sweet, bring cash. That's all that was there. Oh yeah, Thomas Edison, and bent cash cash in a way I bet would have if he live one of you in a minute Actually, I was what we were just talking about this last night that I've seen a few places they dont a cash.
First of all, I thought was illegal. I thought, like you have to honor this currency. I thought says they're on there that you know this is legal tender, regardless I've seen at whether it's illegal or not, and then apartment, we are getting real, close, probably to know cash. What a buying, what they in the EU, while Harare buying into myths and stories. We already bought into this myth and story that that piece of paper has the value I now and others not even get to be a fucking piece of paper is imagined area. Your twelve and in summer explains you hey, so anyways you'll start working and then you'll never see anything, but you'll have moral zeros on in this age up its he I'm granted, I'm sure it'll just go seamlessly, but to me So, while our really stretching the concept of this fake thing, I agree harder apprehend around the world, go from somewhere else.
Just, have your money will be in like your eyes and they'll. Just like scan your eye in your whole worth is there I would stare and all day long. I hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime obsessed with safety and money. I would be stereo rolled time. Would you Well, I think it's a you'd by one of those little readers. I guess I've one would have a reader you'd emphysema you'll need to know how much you yeah yeah? I've Hollywood check it too and yet this is not great. Is the holdings in allusion? What is safety mile we'll be dead by TAT? Don't worry all this. long enough to play this and will laugh like when you're fifty one and I'm sixty four will dig out this old declared tat would have been living for ten years without any form of proof. We have any money. Animal be living forever by banks will have vampire blood. That's right!
spur on their sorcerers down all the things he goes will play this and will have a good luck, at our naivete. Oh man, when we live forever, they'll be no more ghosts, almost the current amount of ghosts, even in a world where we live forever. I think you still can get killed. My boss, you can personalize Alistair here or I love you. I love you tonight