Jared Cohen is an American businessman. He is currently serving as the CEO of Jigsaw and an Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He has also served as a member of the Secretary of State's Policy Planning Staff and as an advisor to Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton and he is the author of Accidental Presidents: Eight Men Who Changed America. Jared sits down with the armchair expert to discuss his obsession with history, the impact of social media on world crises and he teaches us how to win the week. Dax asks about his collection of presidential hair and Jared talks about how he learned to transfer his visible ticks to invisible ones. The two debate the importance of presidential fidelity and the narrowing center in American politics.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome, Welcome welcomed armchair expert, I'm back shepherd of joined by Japan Campaign, today, We have a really fun guess. We really fell over the sky, he's these kind of joining the ranks in ways working his way into the outer grant grant character of category two pillars the pillars of a now, we're Goin, is an american business. Man he's currently serving as a ceo of jigsaw and an adjunct. Senior fellow at the council on foreign relations. He's as a member of the secretaries states, policy planning staff and as an adviser to economies or rice and later Hillary Clinton. He has an amazing book called accidental President's eight men who changed Amerika. We talk a bunch about that. He also has the books
the new digital age, children of G hard and one on rays of silence, also a reminder that Valentine's day is approaching, which means mannequin. Jes love bore me: love boys, boys, boys, boys, Myspace, Facebook, Antoni of this. If your progress is one third is fascinating, is all the round up. Dinner table chat about the challenges and stuff you're going on. It can be a damn barn, Bernard Self, Juan yeah the challenges that we get at the end of each episode, where their assignments for us to complete have been fascinated
dance card has been full ages, spoil vat, its changed my life, the really has changed my life, maybe you'll do monocle of everything and my like in three years, you'll be the Dalai Lama. Oh god, it's the dream in the dream, will please enjoy Jared Cohen. We are supported by athletic. Greens is one of the easiest things for me to talk to you about, because I literally do it every morning. Sometimes even do it twice a day, it makes me feel turbocharging athletic greens is daily, all in one health drink with seventy five vitamins, minerals and whole food source ingredients that make it easier for you to get comprehensive nutrition without the need for multiple pills, powders or complex routines. It's the most complete supplement for a better you. Now. Let me tell you some things: it's got. Monica home buckle up your slacks, ok pre by
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he's where he sang the Do you like five minutes from here? I like that place? I think they tell you and you check in their like be worn. This is an adult hotel. I got there The idea- and I gotta dig that Swiss live on travelling. Like I'm up for seen some shit, I told Monica this story. I was at the Mandarin Oriental, which was lovely and me. The middle of the afternoon two p m. I start hearing of fucking orgy a bona fide orgy. Next to my room at first like awesome watching pornography really really loud, but then it's going on and on and on and then am I I don't think that's a pornography walked out into my hallway could hear it clear as day under the thing: lotta acts,
and all investigation I have for the rest of the trip to, and then I ended up meeting the two girls that we're running that room at the elevator a day said all were we keeping you up and, unlike now it's great Kincaid peddled star was invested. Unheard of german well, I'm, too arms. Your expert, thank you. I'm happy to bigger, yet we have mutual friends. We love you, twelve Riyadh, any Ashton in Manila grant Adam grants, medical ruins Monica Lewinsky, two of them are podcast friends that we ve met but Jared. What's what's interesting, we're gonna talk to you about your book, accidental present which I have read a good deal of, and I really really really like it. It's a super fascinating topic, but yet we could definitely do for hours on your other life. They think it makes it that much more interesting that you ve written this book, but it would have been predicted right yeah. I think anyone who
who knew me when I was a kid who might have expected me to write this Bergmann does not that many people that new me when I was a kid, because I grew up in a small town in Connecticut yeah, so it seemed very random to write a book about eight dead president's yeah. I did all the people have worked with intact in on foreign policy and in business. Yet so just a real quick primer on you is that you grew up in Connecticut, as you said, and then he went to stand firm. Which gets Monica. I both engorge, with our unique file. Obsession that we're just this morning before he got here trying to figure out. Why is it that the fascinates as how much we still don't know anyways? You want to stay third and then, when you gonNa Stamford unit up working for the State Department is an intern under congolese arises that by did it, while I was still outstanding, o still at Stanford, ok and then
I'll just throw this in here. Did you took your own tripped up? I ran spent four months there, so when I was in grad school, I went straight from Stanford Data Grad School when I rode scholar Monica OX word, I'm loved was Catherine Guy. I know you think it and now the euro, a veritable James Bond for us, is obsessed with schools. If you could have done squeeze the semester into Harvard. I think they would both renewed and running around the earth site, get road scholar right, a thriving round bird, who else we ve had a third, but we want you think we had three now, which I did only thing. I three now was gonna meet
you think I would thought I was gonna meet one in my lonely, lunch less. It will allow us to. While you were at Oxford, you went to around when I was at Stanford. I was obsessed with travelling to Sub Saharan Africa, and one of my professors was worried that I was requesting that to get myself killed, so he basically read me a or almost parental eat. It hides I'd leave to cool down for while what was your track in Sub Saharan Africa, as a trip that I took when I was younger to Tanzania and AIDS itself, learns what Huey and so sort it started with a fascination with language, I'll com and then, when you spoke language you'd want to travel there, and then it became an interest in conflict resolution and civil wars. And then I started travelling to civil wars. Professor is just thought of his time to knock it off a little me? I am. I look at a map and is it where else, but I find incredibly interesting where people don't oh, and I want to go to IRAN and took me almost eighteen trips to the Iranian.
Embassy in London to convince them to give me a visa, and I got it, but only twelve hours before I got the plan. Is it so it's hard to get a visa to go there even back, then it was hard out while today would probably not, however many to sign on our anthem. If I couldn't I shall just because it really fascinates me and I have a I'm chair speculation, which is IRAN is a lot of things right. You both have like this theocracy on top of everything, but then you also have a kind of progressive youth and a highly educated women in general there for the Middle EAST right. So there's a there's, a lot of paradoxes, their Arthur. Yet it's a fascinating country just because our historic memory of the very revolutionary Islamic Republic is very different than the reality of the population today, and that became really evident to me when I went there, I went there to do a research project to interview opposition leader
and I got in some trouble with the government- may also told me to knock it off, and you ll notice a pattern here and so upset. I don't want to leave the country, so I started just hanging out with young people, my own age, single made them taken. I got really captivated by this idea that country of eighty million people has sixty seven percent of the population under the age of thirty dead. I sort of start to view them as real opposition? You sure- and I was never interested in technology until I went to IRAN, and then I watched the way that these young people were using technology to flourish and organise to go to parties, and I realized the same tech that I used every single day. They were using a novel ways that I'd never could have imagined. The nights are felt very strongly that one day that would take on a political dimension, which ended up being the Arab sprang up the Green Revolution first to any wrong and then subsequently, the arab spring throughout the region,
two thousand, nine thousand nine. Ok, so you were an intern while still at Stanford, but at some point you stay on under Hilary in the State Department, correct that grass kind of kind of a rare thing to happen. I would assume today did they got him or did they keep people most people don't stay on? It was very interesting going through a presidential transition comparative now, it's probably less dramatic by the time it seem pretty dramatic, yeah bushed Obama to alarm, and here there is a lot of baggage carried over. There were a lot of preconceived notions and you I like trying to survive browse idea tried. This arrived aha help me and Eggs obviously have never worked with the government of very limited knowledge of how it even works, but there are categories within the government that, in theory at least, are a political right. You having, if you break it down, there's obviously career civil servants, there's career foreign service and their very apolitical. Although I will note that the bumper stickers in the basement on the cars change very dramatically, as do the photos with
important people, various offices, which we call them, you all like the defence team for O J, where they went in there and put a bunch of pictures of him, but there is also there there's political appointments which are sort of more partisan in nature, in the sense that you worked on the campaign you donated to the campaign in your may, be trying to execute a part of the platform or something they exactly yeah. There's a smaller category of political appointments, which I was, which is your brought in as a subject matter expert. In my case, I was brought in because of an expert he's on counter terrorism and on the Middle EAST right in under the veil of digital future right a social media and that the power of Twitter and Facebook and this work that wasn't really a thing at the State Department back vanity, It. It was kind of aside passion of mine, because I'd seen it in IRAN I'd seen it in Lebanon. I'd seen it when I was living in Syria, Iraq and especially you as the green revenue. Happened and then we got more evidence of how technology was infusing itself
into the world. I really wanted to create a portfolio. An agenda that became part of foreign policies. Embrace of a lot of these new technologies are much less global aspect of this story. Is your Jew, Ah, yes, that's correct here, so I guess, if I'm jewish and I think of the many different countries that would love to host me, I'm not sure that some of the ones you just listed seem like that. The friendliest place was at your data. They experience No do you find that, like you know what in told a narrative and then once you got in there that people were really like or I think I did what any normal jewish kid from a small town in Connecticut would do, which is I went. IRAN. So when you win- had he already said the statement. We want to wipe Israel off the map. So when I There are Mohammed. How to me was the the president, but the real person in charge of the country is Ali Khamenei, who's, the Supreme Leader in it said many,
he's an ayatollah he's a grandma dollar. Ok, ok, so that those statements it already and said. Are you? You had a sense, at least or at least what the government felt about the state of Israel, and perhaps jewish people at large you have it. It was interesting and I went to see about services in any wrong there. Why didn't you arrange tat when I was there? There were twenty five thousand Jews in IRAN there, a number in Shiraz there's even the constitution, mandates that there has to be a jewish member of parliament. But I get a kick out of this because obviously the jewish person who ends up in parliament like, doesn't think Israelis It exists not devised loyal of the tribe right right, Ramrod, so this only reducing vat Monica is he got into hot water walls. Your Hilary, because you called
Twitter personally and urge them not to do some scheduled maintenance so that the service would be up and running as the two thousand nine Green Revolution was gaining Bart Release, protests and enough, it will lead to that and Obama was was made a statement. He was not pleased about that. But then my getting this right and then this is right and then Hilary. Basically that I stand with Obama and I'm kind of Stoke he did this. I don't think I did anything wrong. I do Jack Dorsey because one of the things that I did when I worked at the State Department, I used to call up, see us from Silicon Valley and say: hey you wanna come on me like Iraq and Afghanistan and see it as far as Mexico, and let me show you all those sort of crazy good that technology can do on the ground of India's get you a little more in it's so I was following the iranian opposition on Twitter. Stop one of them post. That twitter was scheduling dense and it was gonna be in the middle of the night America time, which would be smack in the middle of the day.
IRAN time and they were counting on twitter to get the word out about what was happening inside the country. So I just re shouted of course, you know, said hey. This would be really much better if you could do it at a time that was inconvenient for Americans. Highly convenient for iranian cause. They might make all the difference, and then I went to bed. From what that thank. You bought your below I'm just guessing. I don't know what the policy is, but I think that Obama's point was that the government doesn't lean on private business to execute their foreign policy. Is that roughly well that that the guidance was they'll? Be no not only in the morning, I mean I, I didn't think it was meddling and but some people did so. I woke up the next morning to not have pleasant barrage of messages and long YE males with lots Important people on that. My name on the front page of the New York Times even say that makes your position quite public in at any point, did you get nervous about a fought war, something crazy, not a thought right, just losing my
It was much more immediate, yeah. Ok, after all, this government service, Jeered then went to work for Google, which was then called Google ideas, and then Google ideas eventually spun often than you founded Jigsaw, and you are the currency, oh you're, the founder, and see a very exact and my understanding. Jigsaw, I'm gonna be quoting at times for my think. Wire magazine, which is the goal of jigsaw, isn't help realise all the best possibilities of the internet, but rather to limit all the shady parts of it. Yeah I like to think about it as there's a bunch of problem destabilizing the internet that are inherently political in their nature right. This information state sponsored cyber attacks, organized harassment, systematic trolling, all the things that just give us tons of anxiety and it took so long. We we try to look around the corner and figure out where all that's going and then we're an engineering company. So we build products to try to address them.
You guys. Obviously you guys are against indoctrinated. Extremists say that would be a topic that you are concerned about on the internet. That right like give me an example of a product that could help curb that is so with checks. Are we very the sort of fur methodology of how we do things which we forward, deploy our people to the most active places in the world? where these problems are festering. So when we decided we want to do something with the emergence of ISIS to counter them online. We sent a number people to Iraq to interview incarcerated ISIS fighters and ISIS defectors to try to understand from them from the very people involved in extreme is and how they use technology to recruit how technology was used to recruit them. What worked? What didn't work and from that? We came up with this concept that we call the redirect method where done. If I'd rough, we three to five thousand key words and phrases that people who are already radicalized are actively searching for to try to take the violent next step in rather than t up ads on, display ads
words and video adds that countered the narrative we teed up ads. That looked like answers to those questions, and then we built playlists in English in Arabic on Youtube that then erected them to counter narratives, fascinating now this is a total it now, but you're, the perfect person ever you watch dumb, don't fuck with cats. Now right I sure you absolutely have to turn Netflix, but to second version is a guy post, a video called one boy, two cats: he he murders these two kittens name. It's called one boy, two kittens regardless. If it's horrific, he kills these two kittens in a in a vacuums arguments off of it off its offer in them that mobilizing all these kind of internet gum, shoes that love cats and they go on this mission to to find out who the sky is. And then, then, this story evolves in a way you couldn't possibly imagine but
all I'm watching this thing and in a couple things I'm thinking of one of them? Is I really can't believe that we don't know who posts of video like how is that even possible so that that dude uploaded that video we have listened weights on our cars, how is it that you can ignore in such anonymity? What are the pros and cons of correcting map ministers? you're volume in that this is so much content in new. Even look at the civil war in Syria, you have, by an order of magnitude, more content, that's been uploaded to Youtube. Then there have been minutes in the entire conflict which has been raging for YO. Nearly a decade lie so just a sheer volume of all this. It makes it very hard to do two things: one priest, green content and to figure out origin of content do you think, is that it would that technology even be possible when you buy a device, it has a license plate and it doesn't matter how times you beam and across the world, and then it goes to this site and Russia back here. That that, somehow, that some life
despite what always exist amid the Chinese do at all. They do not raising this is that this attention between the notion of free expression and control against batter illiberal uses of the internet and yeah, there's lots of things that, when we look at the american context of making ourselves safer, making things more stable and making us more civil, sound until you start to sort of see that some of those things would be the same tactics used by repress DV misuse joining that balance mean there's some things that are sorted, irrefutable leap, the are important for free expression, some things that are irrefutable e important first or to preventing total, free for all its a grey area in the middle that I think, is not very well defined and where everybody kind of fumbles around it is interesting that I hear you're right. It all depends on what my reaction of what story. I saw that afternoon so then that there are other times or I am like a huge proponent of privacy, but then so much the Catholic. I may now be killed. Two cats.
In this country for three we should be. We will now have on the just it all always circles back to the same debates. We ve been having about liberty in this country for three hundred years that we will now have on the internet jigsaw is very fascinating, and that is how you met Adam Grant, correct yes, I've known Adam now, eight years- and I just find him to be one of the he's like areas should be Your buddies, Yoda he's part executive, coach and Wendy. When he sort of giving me advice, I try to sneak in a little I repeat, it is about your please do you just like cut me should all is well and he helped me come up with a very anxious person. I've been anxious person, my whole life and I worry all iodized worry constantly and do you think is by chemically or to give up the chaotic childhood all right about a very normal childhood, but you're gonna. Think of is now my dad's a psychologist. My grandfather was a psychiatrist. My aunt is is a psychiatry, my uncle's psychiatry, so I think
maybe the painters houses never painted yeah. I was always analyzed as as active, a very happy normal child, but I was very twitchy. I would twitch my. I know that we have moved. My mouth is basically what I went to college disappeared at never creates social problems for makes a good at sports grow up, but I should have been like a total outcasts, and this is the eighties. I it's one of these things that my whole ill up until I was eighteen years old and went to college. I thought it was gonna, be one of these things that would would I be able to do, and then I went to college and for some reason it went away. Was yours at all. Mine was very, very governed by making things even my remove throughout my body. He saw a bee I'd squint. My eyes now move my neck by weight that the thing it's interesting and I'd be curious. If youve encounter this also the neurological urges having gone away, I'm stores twitchy as I've ever been. I just have moved it to non visible phases in my body and right now I try to work out, but I have a twitch, my lower back some running on the treadmill, I'm costly twitching by lower back them in excursion,
pay our capital, preconceived. Ok, so you just move the marshal groups, like ones covered by laws exactly. Why well implies a tax he he goes through. This whole thing he started smoking and they just they all, went away I went back and my miles. I only got that's that's. When mine went away as I started smoking, I had this like outlet for all this weird. You know things anxiety or yeah. I don't know you have to travel and pajamas, also now now do you travel? I am I can't I'm so uncomfortable when I have to travel in whether its genes, soon. I try to travel in pajama like closed because of the time Yes, oh, why in
you ve never saw any kind of medication for this. Now, in my sister, she asked me about this not too long ago. She said I don't understand why it's not a big deal for you that you like moved this thing away from your face, and I think they did not seeking sort of other remedies for it and just kind of managing it myself. In retrospect, I should view, is more of a source of pride. You landed anything else, but I think that will be self indulgent, but I suppose I've just done yeah measures are older, younger she three years older, and she will tell you that she's about ten times smarter than well. Thing about sisters is they will tell you Goddamn truce want they cause that I had all these weird oecd things. One of them was, I had my finger, Tipps had to be wet at all times or just not dry I didn't want him to meet our society scam, just just gotten my tips on my fingers when my tongue, at one time was in the car is in the front. He also my sister from the back singers. Ah, my
here I would you stop licking your fingers. It's all growth. Now I thought for sure I was doing it completely under the radar and she just totally blew me up here, watching all of it. She knew all those tex. Yet my sister's beef with me as more. She just wants to make sure that when somebody compliments me that they know the delta between in more and more apparent as it now is a kid you had an obsession with President's yeah. I was completely obsessed with President's as a kid so starting at eight, my parents took me to a free market and they bought me a bag of presidential campaign buttons that I looked them up and these were worth like thousands. Thousands of dollars until I realised that it set reproduction waited, but they did. This is another thing which is they bought me. This book called the buck stops here. It's one of these rhyming books, one one page per president and my parents. They wanted her me into a precocious kid. They didn't realize they would have to have a common
Nations about death with me and for about murder is still remember some of the lines that Bulgaria, thirty five is young, John F, another president shot to death and second A thing tat is so I'm a run. The Oliver Stone Movie came out in the early nineties. We had a room downstairs in our house. And I decided that I was gonna- try to solve the Kennedy assassination, so I had to come tat string going further picture. I wouldn't let anybody in an and spoil her and I never solved it well. Did you have a theory that you thought we could stand behind? Like was appointing the one person or I had pretty wacky curies YO, basically when you're that young they biased towards whatever you read most recently right. It was a weird obsession as a kid to hyper collect presidential buttons
presidential memorabilia and two obsess over these sort of eight moments in history where president died in office and somebody Yo Random ended up as president just a weird thing. I've spent my whole life saving also, even even in your early interests and President Europe specifically interested in the vice presidents, who assume the command. Yet I think it's because I was there. An obsessive, compulsive edit. Here I just fixated on this book that had these eight drop dead pages and maybe with my parents reaction when reading it to me, I mean there's a picture We can be killed over on one of them. It's not exactly kit appropriate, well issues, dealers, in addition, Carlin at all. Now I don't ok of his show he's got a park has called hard core history, its private biggest history, pod cancer, Nablus and a few episodes. But he had this great breakdown in one episode, but he said the reason people gravitate towards conspiracy theories. Is that-
it's too scary to think that one idiot or two idiots can shape the course history. It's a very scary notion when their seven billion people, so it's more comforting to think what? been a grand conspiracy with all these powerful elements involved. Somehow that makes the world A scary doing there is any bourbon around with J, F K thing like you, couldn't accept. Like waits, one idiots change history. I think there are a couple of things going on with the J F K assassination. One people were able to watch the assassination in motion.
Operator footage too. They saw the alleged assassin shot online tv, and this was the era of television, then with interesting about the other. Seven presidents who died in office- sometimes it took a pretty lengthy period of time for the vice president to even find out that the president was dead. So this was the first really kind of after a little because of radio brawls ever knew Sdr was, was gonna die with Kennedy, he was so young and vibrant and nobody was expecting and he was so polarizing. So we freedom is loved. Ass Kennedy was, he was incredibly hated him in parts of the country, so give this highly polarizing figure her reign and abuse hated. Public in circles. He was deeply deeply disliked and then the rust bell. There is a perception that his father Jack can be bought him. The election right and effect is an interesting anecdote that alot of people don't know one. When Kennedy was President Elect, there's a disgruntled postal workers, name Richard Public, who was so angry that Kennedys Father had purchased him
election that he sold all his belongings and use the money to buy a green Buick dynamite and then stopped Kennedy all across the country and filled up his Buick with that dynamite and tried to kill him as a suicide bomber. He was parked right outside of his home in West Palm Beach and decided not to do it because he saw one of the Kennedy children. So we followed him to church moved the dynamite in his pants, withstanding four feet from the president, elect with his hand in his pocket, and is on the trigger ready to blow himself up the President Elect and everybody in the church, and he again decided not to do it because he saw some children out of the corner of his eye. This goes really strong with his own conscience. He hates alleys was the EU is only want to kill him
What how was he discovered? He had worked with non disgruntled postal worker and hit with sending him cryptic postcards after this is like tax policy cards. Everything I think the guy figured it out them and alerted the secret service and he was pulled over for routine traffic stopped in West Palm Beach. There is, I don't know how that dynamite got minus one. Click on my religion bring em up the very creepy looking guy. It's interesting is even though you have a presidents who died in office. There are another nineteen that almost died in while we're on the theme of sort of attempted assassinations year went after was president elect his very first speech.
President Elect in Miami he's sitting on the back of again a Buick. I don't know what the deal was will lose. All you ever trusted vehicle gives a two and a half minute speech, and then an italian emigrant named Giuseppe Zangara fires, five shots and fifteen seconds at him, and the bullets would have killed. President Elect Roosevelt, but a hundred pound woman named Lillian Cross saw him, pull the revolver out and smoothed her purse from her left. Armed her right arm and smacked begun thwarting his aim. Saving after and saving the new deal, eyelashes digest slow down for what are we love Lillian Cross here more than two hundred pounds under pounder? Oh, my god. Monica! Do you think if you were in the same way that you grab one in your hand by depends, on my hand, baggage carrying? That's, probably everything Luckily, she bright and have her favorite handbag with it eighteen arms! If you dare we,
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No, this until recently, I Garfield right. He went to a convention to make a speech for another candidate, and then there was this crazy, lock out where they couldn't decide and then because his speech was until recently Garfield right. He he went to a convention to make a speech for another candidate, and then there was this crazy lockout where they couldn't decide and then because reach was so good. All of he ends of walking either with the nomination. Is that right? That's right so Garfield to this date is the only person ever to become president who wasn't actively seeking their parties nomination through the ballot box, at least so Garfield went to the convention in eighteen. Eighty, which was supposed to be between James Blaine and Ulysses. Grant for another consecutive third term. He was there as the campaign manager to the guy running third in the polls that the governor of Ohio and on the thirty something ballot there at a deadlock and somebody shouts his name.
And next time he knows, he's been given the nomination and he runs up on sagely says I protest. A man who does not seek the nomination cannot be given. Combination, they say screw. You were giving it to you anyway, mind you have seen and say so through these different. I love. Biogas these I love historical biographies and slowly, I'm picking up some of these presidential stuff remain the linen, be Johnson ones right now in one of the things that I didn't know about- and I love for you to tell us the history before getting these vice presence. Is They were not throughout the majority of history picked by the candidate, and they were often assign dry and often it was from the opposing party right. So how did the role the vice president is star in how's? It evolved so the framers of the constitution. They didn't want a vice president. They ended up as a last minute addition to the constitution, having a vice president, mainly as an electoral mechanism that the person who got the second number of votes would end up, as vice president, which
Is that what happened to John Adams and happened to Thomas Jefferson? And what was happening is frequently ties were taken place, so they then ratified the twelfth amendment which had the electors CAS ballot separately for the vice president and the president. But if you're right throughout history, the presidential candidate, not only didn't choose their own vp, but it was seen as incredibly taboo to try to influence that decision will even campaign. He was seen as disgusting for quite a while that it right there was. That was a paradigm shift. It was seen as uncouth to even try to campaign and game support. That's right! It's really early 20th century phenomenon, for the presidential nominee to canvas and
campaign. Fur election was even the sort of back porch campaigning of standing out there in people coming to. You was seen as highly out there and unbefitting of a president. The other thing that's interesting. Back ever most of the history of our republic, the president was completely consumed with office seekers, so anybody could walk in and out of the executive mansion and which was later called the White House. So these presidents would just sit and deal with people seeking offices all day every single day, Rhine and anybody would overwhelm them and it became all consuming and it took three president's being. Fascinated for the federal government to decide. Maybe presidential protection is a good idea, William Mckinley, whose assassinated in nineteen o one, as recently as his assassination presidential protection with base, we see as the way, dished out spoils dear friends friend like his buddies from Ohio or the ones protecting him
a bunch of guys out of shape, half in the bag smoke and say well, ok, so step one in the vice president world Whoever was runner up basically became vice president, and then what was the next phase to the next phase is at the party convention they would nominate presidential candidate in the party would basically decide who the VP nominee would be typically without any consultation with the person they dominate to be president, so it was typically a marriage of political convenience to win a state, a pleasing constituency, but this is the pre primary presidential primaries don't happen until the other sort of middle part of the twentieth century. So back then, the deep selection was typically a way to get the party to rally around the nominee, who is more often than not polarizing till one flank of the party or another, and a lot of times. Memory of a real
sectional balance in the country between north and south because of the issue of slavery. So you a lot of times that the vice president was used to balance the ticket and bring certain elements of the party from one section or another. Along to the campaign here they throw the southerners abound by picking someone from south right. Well, that's the case of Lincoln Right, Andrew Johnson was antithetical and always to to Lincoln was any so what's interesting about Andrew Johnson S, historic, we we look back and we see him as the disaster that he was in the election of eighteen sixty four one lincoln. If he was almost certainly gonna, lose the election business for the second term of a second term and if not the only wait,
when the election was depicted more democratic war Democrat from a border state and Andrew Johnson was basically be only one but Andrew Johnson in eighteen. Sixty four, his rhetoric on punishment for traders and his rhetoric on civil rights were more progressive than even Abraham Lincoln because he loved the union more than anything and so long as the union was broken, he would do everything he could to put it back together, so Lincoln violates the rule and engages in a secret intrigue and conspiracy. Ted get Andrew John then put on the ticket and there he then has the most disastrous debut of any vice president in history, yeah, I'm trying to think what book I read that kind of got in. Oh, I guess it was probably grant a chair. Now we read that luxury that that's great yeah cause adult so much with reconstruction and let us at least
on churn out was not a big fan of Andrew Johnson. I left reading that book thinking. Well, that's gotta be the worst sky we ve ever had the. Could you crown someone as the very worst so Andrew Johnson to me is by far the worst president in history, the republic, just because he became president at a time where he was presiding over a moment where mistakes would have hundred plus year consequences rice to think about this and Lincoln and Johnson are inaugurated on March. Fourth, eighteen, sixty five Andrew Johnson goes to take the of office, is completely hammered and its most, alas, literally thirty seconds and put his hand on the Bible. He ends up going on for seventeen minutes, insulting every single member of cabinet, Aber, remember the Secretary of Navies name so pauses to find out. He proceeded to slobber all over the Bible and then issue drunk just where the new senators in so he asked poor clerk. Do it our him,
so they re star five weeks later, Lincoln's dead, not Lloyd. You get a drunkard Andrew Johnson as President United States, but instead of Abraham Lincoln presiding over reconstruction, you get the last president to own slave a man who was born a racist and died a racist who, once the civil war was over, went back to whom he really wise and let the sea its handle. Civil rights gave amnesty to everybody and we get YO a delay of civil rights by a hundred plus you what this is all stuff. I had not learned in school and I didn't realize it until reading grant, which was the headline of the civil war are being, of course, Mansour proclamation in free, the slaves, but really The real gnarly stops all that reconstruction, That's where, like you have all these new rights, if we folded the self back in were telling them that you ve, gotta, let black folks vote when black folks go to vote. You have squads
snipers killing them, and then you have people calling for the federal government to send troops down to protect them, so they can vote. But you have Andrew Johnson and then he's not doing that. Cannot. However, that's right. I think I spent the most amount of time researching Andrew Johnson for this book and I found it torture us he's such a dark human being Yan such a disturbing human being, and you realize how haphazard choice, to put somebody on the ticket to win an election gave us the black codes, which were the precursor to the Jim Crow laws which gave us a hundred years. Of segregation, we're still dealing with the aftermath of of putting Andrew Johnson on the ticket. Sixty four and since you love James Garfield, We all know that the fact that Garfield ends up as the nominee and president in
eighteen eighty without seeking it out, was the best opportunity. We had to reverse what Andrew Johnson What did he immediately follow? Andrew Johnson, so you had Andrew Johnson and then to terms of U S, grant Obray right now and then and then the election of eighteen. Seventy six gave us rather for haze and the end of reconstruction, and then that's when the Jim Crow laws begin, because reconstruction ends but Garfield, because he wasn't attached to any political party in terms of of owing them a debt of loyalty, news republican, but he got the nomination without seeking it. This was a man who has a teenager, hid runaway slaves who espouse two principles that would define his presidency. He wanted you to
Ursule Suffrage, any wanted universal education and then the second is he wanted. An end to the spoil system was the spoil system, the principle of you in the election and all your friends and supporters end up in positions of high power yeah. So if anybody could have reversed Jim Crow, it would have been James Garfield, but mentally ill office seeker put two bullets in his back four months. F, he became president fought. That's all he was present a forest format. Oh my goodness. Well, also, I think its relevant point. Now we lose sense of just how frequently world leaders, or just me, fascinated. It was like every six years, some very prominent world leader was going down a sap and all the time with amazing is the two longest periods of american history. Without a president dying in office were George Washington to William Henry Harrison, I'm eighteen, eighteen, forty one and then J F K to the present. So in between
president used to die in office like every ten to twenty years before you even get into the assassination attempt so imagine is we're in the longest period of time without a president dying in office. We have the oldest incumbent in the history of the republic and the two leading contenders on the Democrats, side are both in their late seventies, yeah yeah. So you we don't wish to ever go through this again, but we take for granted how frequently this used to happen in the shock to the country's system from losing the man who was elected men ending up with somebody who, in all eight of the cases, took the country in a completely different direction, is mortify disarmament exhilarating to others. Right, yes, so does that. Do you assume that this upcoming elections cycle that people recognise that that these are quite old candidates? Bye, bye
history standards, and that with the back up plan should be one. That's pretty well thought out and vetted. You think that'll be a topic that has more relevant than it has in the past, or even people this blow by that. Knowing, although forever I think people will pay lip service, but the way that things are done now where the candidate gets to choose their own running may lends itself towards its a particular moment in the election cycle, I'm up against the ropes and I need to bounce the Poles ten points, and this is the best way to do it, and then they manufacture some answer. This person is fit to lead and blah blah blah blah blah, but it's a grossly
irresponsible way to chew somebody who could one day become commander in chief, and it also lend itself towards another interesting phenomenon, which is, if you're the candidate. You want to make sure you don't pick somebody who is more exciting and interesting than you, and you want to make sure you don't pick somebody who such a disaster had they embarrass you, so you basically and dot netting out at taking the junior varsity version of yourself and my problem with this is I dont want the junior varsity person as the commander in chief. I want the captain of the varsity team yeah, in presidential candidates, are not incentivize to do that? Why wouldn't they want someone that could out China? I mean, ultimately, how would that cost them anything in this election? It might be different because it is unprecedented to have candidates this age running on both sides, and- and so you can imagine this time around- that there's gonna be a real desire to
this sort of future leader of the party on both sides. Another would mean two ways: waters by nine ways. Look at it, but the two most obvious explanations for this seemed to be Juan. People are living longer, so naturally people live longer and longer long will probably see people older and older, that are able to have that positions. That's that's one explanation another one would seem to also be that wow both sides seemed to be saying they want something from I gone error or their romantic about some way of wife that these two
individuals lived through and know how to return. Us, too. Is that fair to guess? That's one way to look at. I think that's what you're really saying is both sides espousing this view of kind of some sort of return to normal say that the problem, if you look at what there's an irony a hundred years ago, Warren Harding, who also died in office, ran on a platform of return to normalcy, had world WAR one owed to terms of well sand. Wilson's and his last year completely incapacitated with a stroke people just one of the economy to go back to normal. They wanted no foreign, entanglements and so Harding's hold campaign was put America first return to normal sea and then, before his term, ended up. He died in office. How did he die? He died of a brain, hemorrhage oak and he left behind an avalanche of scandal that landed on the lap of Calvin Coolidge two months after he took the oath of office.
But the economy was doing so well with the roaring twenties that nobody cared I've. Nobody cared about. Kickbacks in oil scandals in kickbacks at the Veterans Bureau, didn't care that the attorney general was complicit in all sorts of stock manipulation and bootlegging and fight fixing, and you name it. They just cared that this was the arab Eskimo pies consumer products. Everybody was doing well and it all came crashing down with Harbour Hoover in nineteen, twenty nine That brings up a great topic, which is, as I've read these biographies. I realise how ignorant I was too how, country really has worked for its most of its history. You realize that, but whatever you think you're returning to just now, What you're asking a return to, because in general tonsure corruption tonnes a kid Baxter images, I think, is tempting for people to think of that date. Are observing the worst ever in our policy
history and it just as in our history in general. There is, there is a tiny bit of arrogance to it that you would think you're witnessing the very worst thing, but just it's important, all right. What what we ve come from and in the little baby, steps that have been bettering the process, the whole time and those who really have been happening. If you take a you know, thirty thousand feet view of the whole history How relevant is that people under stand our history so that they know where we're going amending. This is why my biggest concerns is that we ve lost an understanding of the importance of history dumber. I love computer science. I love technology. I think social media has its values, but its increase, the pace of things and trivialized, dead substance of things. So much that we ve forgotten to.
Asked? The question? Have we seen this before or what is this looked like before? Is it? Is it a quantity and banned with issues that part of the promises so much info nonstop? I think it's a couple things adding some of it is sheer volume of of content and bandwidth. I think some of it is we ve disparaged the humanities, YO in favour of the sciences, and I love the scientists to but not a thing many of the humanities and with interesting is when I started to write at central President's Dear Donald Trump wasn't even on the scene, people were pretty sure they knew what the outcome of the twenty sixteen presidential election was gonna be and what ended up being most fascinating. For me, in the five and a half years that I wrote this book is, it was a refresher in just how polarized just how divided just how corrupt, just how complicated the American Republic has been throughout history, and I find myself looking at everything that people are hysterical about today and it has
roots in things that we ve seen before whether its polarization, whether its partisan politics, whether it sort of foreign entanglements yet in the thing, is, I never point this out to suggest you shouldn't TK about what's going on today, we should be fighting for what needs to improve today, but just that this is the worst. Its ever ban is such a defeatist point of view and in it really doesn't bear much truth
but how do you think today ranks in that division? So I agree with you completely. This is this is far from the most divided and polarized. This country has been its entering the two most partisan chapters of american history were the slavery era and and the post slavery era. A difference now is that the politics and the polarization is partisan by party lines, whereas the divided aspects of our country were north and south, they were more sectional. They reflected more fishers along sociological aspects of our society. So If you look at the partisan politics have today, it doesnt have allotted death to it wrong. It's about party loyalty in one direction or another who, yes, we ve seen both sides wavering completely on what they were, even in the eighties. When I grew up right, so you ve got the republican spending told amounts of money and growing government, which was they were always against. You have you know the left.
Embracing these war options they wouldn't have in the past, like didn't, seem like there's a bedrock of what the position of the parties is any more. If the parties have foot flopped a tremendous amount throughout history. Just look at the Democrats. During the era of segregation in the south, this is what I wanted you to walk through an explain, because I just over Christmas with my profit, her to wear my brother and I are not politically aligned- pushes pretty common and families. I think, but he was like what Republicans the slaves- and, I said well, yes, the word Republican could be used to say that, but I think we should be looking at the content which was Abraham, Lincoln, was insanely prick
as of right, we could all agree was pride, was the most progressive president we ve ever had within what century at Lincoln Lincoln was at the time really more of kind of a centrist. It was the radical Republicans who he was concerned about wanting to accelerate things too quickly, so that that there is a whole flank of the Republican Party that was mostly based out of New England at wanted Lincoln to go even further, and so he was wrestling with a sort of far right version. Learning and here at the time, was much more of a centrist. We just think back on his tenure and what he did and we view them as progressive. I would say Teddy Roosevelt more than any other president ushered in a level of progressive ism that we'd never seen before, but it's only because he was elevated to the presidency upon Mckinley S assassination any, but he has the greatest line of any president ascending upon the death of their predecessor, RE says: it's a terrible thing become into the presidency this way, but it would be far
to be more bit about it. That's Seti Roosevelt's on that. Yes, he was also a warmonger. I mean, I think the rose doll in the context of today would make the most hawkish presidents look like dogs in this. This is a man who he just loved war. She has made his entire childhood upset that his father got himself accused from participating. The civil war and atoning for that in looking for a war and the poor guy had no war What's going on, we also grow very sickly right with Edward with Asthma, and then he went to dude ranch and found himself and became strong in rural, and I think he was compensating for having been a week lean as a kid he was told he wasn't going to survive. And he was told by his doktor and his father that he needed to make himself fit if he wanted to survive, so he he was also extremely depressive.
A lot of these guys re together that he was even deeply deeply disturbed. He, I think a lot of his hyperactivity and ambition came from this desire to outpace his own depression, so human race, through life and he rushed through life faster than anybody, is a totally intoxicating character is a great moment. The biggest mistake of his life is when he wins election he's the first accidental president to win election in its own right in you know for hundred and of all the people that assume the office as vice president, Came president, none of them one reelection, except, for example, during the first. The first following is that for the first time or did not and then the second for did ok, he kind of Ceta pattern, and so he immediately announces he's not gonna seek reelection in nineteen. O eight comes to regret. It tremendously comes back to try to run for president as a bull, moose, third party, nineteen, twelve him while giving a speech you get shot and the bullet penetrates of forty page speech hits his glasses case. He unbuttoned his shirt
tells the crowd that he's an expert taxidermy Sudanese examined the wound and he can survive long enough to finish the speech and get to the hospital feel real right. And then anyone that one out even handed out when ok, the lower the progressive things he implemented at the time. That would make him the most progressive present Sulphur Theodore Roosevelt. The trust busting at was highly highly radical at the time the everything is he. He was just big on government accountability. So when using these commissioner in New York, he used to go around in the middle.
With a pad and paper sort of almost shadowing police officers, I've writing down their misbehavior and in their misdeeds he drove everybody not because he was view is a very thorough integrity or I'll. That was the word I would use. He was dedicated to ending corruption and all those things, and he he did. He was a virtuous man in some levels right he was virtuous. He was self righteous and he again he would. He was more progressive than any one else of his day at that at that time. Ok, so now, back to this flow, between the Republican Party in the Democrat Party. So yes, Lincoln was a Republican. We would agree, I think it would be a republican today what he? Why even guess that it's hard to say in this game, this continent's development. The parties did flip, though right name switched. Yet how does it
how then it? What were the steps too, that the army, the names were always which aims at the Republican Party emerges because the Whig Party essentially collapses and the poor wigs they twice elected a hero, war general, William Henry Harrison. Eighteen, forty and Zachary Taylor in one thousand eight hundred and forty eight, and they both dropped dead parents it after thirty days in office, Zachary Taylor, after it after a year in office, and so so the party just fell apart and it gets replaced by the Republican Party. But when Lincoln runs for RE election in eighteen, sixty four, they rebrand the party is the National Union Party, because the split ticket between Andrew Johnson, as it were democrat in, like in as a as a Republican. Currently our candidates are at the most extreme in their party at the Denver been as far as we have very left,
candidates on the democrat side in some and obviously very extreme right candidate as well. I feel like that. This is the first election. We don't have very many moderate options. You haven't got a group in slavonic Earthy, the uniqueness of the current moment. Reporters and ships been around forever polarization spin around forever. What's happening now is its taking place at a moment where we're seeing the complete about Creation of the centre is ask these countries that this country is to be governed by the centre and it had to contain different flanks of both parties or the sort of sectional a partisans and now what we're seeing is polarization and partisanship on the far flanks of both parties and a shrinking middle and never been there before, ok great so that, leads to a question that you be uniquely skilled. To answer, which is this is my theory on social media dive not unique in this theory, but the fact that the them,
or outrageous statement you make on twitter that the higher likelihood it becomes a headline in a click, bait economy or a click economy. The most provocative things gonna get most amount, demonic click, so it is that what has led to dislike extremism on both sides of the spectrum. Do you think I resign part of it. I think it's a couple things one. I think that technology has removed the intermediaries that used to be the disseminators of information. Now any individual can only develop and disseminate their own content. Rice o everybody's, a publisher raw- that that's that's one thing a play too. I think that the accelerated pace of movement, making that's come with technology, has slowed down by your ship development,
so I think that we have an endowment of good leaders that drawing up and our society doesn't seem to be producing a lot of good, strong new leaders, anymore, there's exceptions, but but we're not building the pipeline of leaders in the? U S in and the democratic world that we use to impart, because young people become flash in the pan public figures before they become season leaders. If you look back the Nelson Mandela's the goals of the world, we took them decades to become real leaders before they became public figures and by then they release or to refine their scale, so that erosion of leadership is secondary and then the third is. I can't help it to look at social media
sometimes in view it as a vortex of voyeurism, in the sense that you click Bay sensational comments only work. If there is a lot of lawyers and searching for an gravitating towards it and it's true in a world of clicks and likes and so forth, we are measuring ourselves based on how many followers we have, how much affirmation we have its clear that sort of saying, substantive, walkie insights don't get you there. So my theory is like ok, sir, I would imagine eighty percent the country does not agree with the far left or the right, but you Never read a headline that says. I propose a great compromise between these two valid points like debts is never gonna, be a headline on sea and entering things so were simply not even reading those ideas that seem like a compromising or well thought out. So I don't know like: what's the chicken and what's the egg, where do where do you specially someone had runs Jigsaw like what
is the mechanism by which we could ring amplify I would I imagine, as the majority of the country, the only look imagine if social media had existed during somebody's seminal moments in history that I write about in the book you, you won't have had a compromise of eighteen. Fifty that delay the civil war by ten years. You wanted had the back door dealings that happened in Congress that resolve some of the most important disputes in history, so so in some respects everything playing out on such a superficial level, so much in public makes deal making much more difficult and if deal making is more difficult than the most contentious issues, dont get resolved in private. Instead, they play out in pubs,
if you're playing out in public and you have an evaluation centre, then it's impossible or difficult to imagine extremes on both sides, but doing you have. I guess my question is: do we haven't of aberrations centre? Is their statistics to support that? Or do we just heavy silenced majority? That's central. There isn't about bringing centre in the representation, but not necessarily in the people. I think the problem is, we don't really know rang again, imagined, I guess here's what happens. I go on twitter and I read stuffing- oh my god, my God, the far left so fucking nuts. The far right is so fucking. That's it then I talk to any human being in real life, and I find it almost nobody I know is on their sides of those tales and the yet I'd. You don't get a sense that that's the case Facebook or twitter, but in real life it seems very obvious to me that most of us are far more centres than than it seems to be represented on.
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without the our best feelings, though I think the problem is you if you're connected to the internet, yours, putting your time between physical and digital world trade and have multiple personalities ray you, ve got your personality on twitter and no other social media outlets and so forth. And then you ve got your persona from when you interact with people in real life. In that are not always the same and oftentimes they're they're. Not so the reason it's hard to evaluate, what's happening to the centre of this country, is you have a perception that comes from what we see playing out in public, where there's a lot of volume yeah and then you have a reality. That is the people you physically interact with and that sample size just isn't large enough Ryan.
I think, you're making an important point here, which is the voices of reason, are sort of the equivalent of the voices of stability and its much easier to be a loud destabilizing voice, and it is to be a voice of reason and stability. So what happens is all of the commentary that is reasonable and practical ends up getting drowned out by loudest voice of euro of your to walk into a parking lot. There are a hundred people, and Europe sort of practical voice. Among your ninety plus voices of extremism yeah, you know every from that's right. Any another thing. When you talk about the fact that deals used to happen with Sir level of anonymity or privacy. I also I do empathize with the people, in Congress and in the Senate, in that any move they make, will be public in two seconds. That's a huge difference right. I think about this sum, the impeachment trial and I think, to myself
What are the merits of having it be a public vote like what? Why is it that they that that it's not a private vote? I wonder what the vote would be if if people got the castor ballots in private and and I'm sure, there's a great argument for why that we should now other voting as we elected them and, if not boring the we want. So I m sure I see the argument, but at the same time I feel like a war These issues now become so bore size and partisan. That, like I, don't think you could get someone to vote with their heart because, They would be immediately blasted in killed, because we all know about thirty five seconds. Get me with interesting about impeachment in some respects. I think that the founders in the framers about the constitution didn't quite get this right. They picked partisan bodies to play. The role of judge
Jerry and his long as the founders were alive. They never impeached a president. They never even attempted to impeach a president and the last of the founders to die was was James Madison in eighteen, thirty, six and then John Tyler in eighteen. Forty three becomes the first present to have articles impeachment brought against it by what grounds. So he is completely politically motivated because Henry Clay and the Whig Party were upset that John Tyler wasn't pushing their agenda in their view, was he only became president because Harrison died after thirty days, and so he was particularly weak, so they tried to. They tried to teach him it didn't work. They ended up, formerly excommunicate, she's the only president to get kicked out of his own party and then Andrew Johnson, who we all love. It's interesting that everybody, when we talk about the stain of Andrew Johnson on our history, points to the fact that he was impeached, theres many reasons to criticise Andrew Johnson at all.
Trivialize is those many reasons to criticise him by pointing to impeachment, because he was impeach by radical Republicans who had thought he was one of them quickly realized he wasn't and impeached him for a law that was later deemed unconstitutional, which was a law called the tenure of office act. They said that the president couldn't fire appointees that were approved by the Senate without approval from the Senate. Ah, so that's what they got him on tat. He was the first present to be impeached and then he's an accidental president. So there's no vice president right until nineteen sixty seven with the twenty fifth amendment, there's no constitutional provision fulfilling that vacancy. So, at the time in the late eighteen sixties, the next it and would have been the president protests. Now the president protest was in the Senate, so the Senate is trying a president were in their naked sitting, began where one of their own would end up. As president and Johnson escapes conviction by us,
Ah so was anybody been convicted, so you? simple Majority of the house to impeach, which all that means is the house decides and votes to put the president on trial in the Senate, you then need two thirds of the Senate to vote to convict the president, which would remove the president from office in two thirds vote is almost impossible to get right other. They came very close with Andrew Johnson, but it's never been gotten. It's never been gotten, and so almost every instance where there's been articles of impeachment brought against the present. The United States have been politically motivated. Everyone all the way two Nixon orgasms gonna save firm for me. In my mind at least, I wasn't some coherent during next him, but the way it was presented a whole childhood was that's
Indeed we want everyone agreed on. Is that accurate? Yet I think nix it in the case of Nixon. He resigned because there's by part, is in agreement that he's committed high crimes and misdemeanor so Nixon the Republicans basically go to next in and they say we have the two thirds votes in the Senate, resign or you're gonna be convicted and be the one in his solely resign and in some respects that's kind of how it should work right. Where you spare the country along trial, you have sort of Yo Bipartisan, YO consensus. You wonder if it would have played out the same way.
Dixon had social media bit around yeah. I don't know I'm irritated. Even you can ask that about a lot of moments in history near the lonely been tariff for four at this point right. What are you have Andrew Johnson impeached? You have documented impeded, and then you have President Trump impede right, but you had another ten or so that Europe had attempts at impeachment meeting YO somebody, a member of all it takes, is one member of the house to bring articles of impeachment against the president just at a lotta cases. Nobody voted for them right. Can you say that they were always politically motivated, always yeah? That makes sense. Ok, now this one just a juicy one and one that I have always kind of had a an issue with initial be unpopular, but I will say it in. It probably is,
comes from me coming of age and being a Democrat when Clinton was Impeach has probably somehow motivated by that, if I'm being dead on us with myself, but I have always thought I don't give a fuck. If someone is unfaithful, I, what is that the job I liked them. Do I dont care by the way, I'm not transporter the less interesting thing other than when it's been predatory and potentially illegal. If he's just having I'm not really that interest. I don't think fidelity is one of the virtues that I need a president. This you know, Regular support for this is always that, while they put them, I was in a position to be blackmailed. This is how they got rid of betray us for his affair. Right as that of you, if you huh an affair, your potentially to hide that you could be vulnerable to some kind of, outside state now I've always thought that's kind of horse shit. I don't know that I buy that, but how many of the president's were unfaithful that we know of a lot?
I mean I this is sort of. This is something that I wrestled with my editors on, because I really my mom calls accent president's very smutty, How can I get into a little bit of sex in the body of Washington fathered? Twenty nine illegitimate children all might do. I don't go too fast, but let us think about so George Washington, fathered, twenty nine elaborately, allegedly LAO Holy, shit I did not, nor is a rather short you even more usefully Warren Harding impregnated, a woman in a five by five hat closet in the White House. While he was president all Michael was okay, so I keep going all my never stars. Montgomery favours other Grover, Cleveland, Father and a legitimate child as well so much so that the campaign against him was Ma Ma, whereas my PA he's but the White House ha ha ha ha. Everyone knew about it. These were out in the open Israeli abandoned in people, didn't care right there
as a paradigm shift right. I can't remember what president but the, but that media use did not cover that that was kind of some weird rule that they had where they didn't really do that. When did that change, so I think Cleveland was kind of a watershed moment, but then it picked up again with Warren Harding, because there were rumours about right. It's right so when it involves raise, it ended up complete bs, o rumour, but when there's rumours involving race, they ended up getting temper with Thomas Jefferson. Yet Dolly Hemmings wasn't talked about until much. Much later than is amazingly controversial, love stories right, John Tyler becomes a widower president and ends up marrying a woman half his age, while he's president's the first presidential where it was what was his agent, was her, he was in his fifties and she was just barely ten. Fun fact about Tyler fathered, fifteen children into of his grandsons are still alive.
No way man born during the administration of George Washington, who has to grandsons amazing you father last child, while he was in his seventys when that child fathered two children when he was in his seventies and those two children on their nineties war, I'm hoping ladders and children the exile right now. I hope it up and after after his mistress was one of the people by his bedside. While he was dying, there is actually a fair amount of evidence that, after was relatively a sexual ok for for much of his life. So maybe the mistress was just in a companion exactly I mean I think after Sdr was prone to national affairs. Eleanor just so damn busy Sheila going on for herself. If no one who had committed infidelity could be a leader, we would have lost out on a bunch of our leaders such as start their right, and I think that this is this is less about fidelity and just the continue desire to move the bar closer and closer towards perfection. If our
standard is absolutely perfect and we're gonna end up being led by the left. Overs yeah and the leftovers are not really who I necessarily your people, people who are so perfect and so calculating. They never take any remedy that that's a level of robotics! Isn't that I don't really want in charge of the country yeah of the also believe, is what I always argued about Clinton. It's like people were shocked that he would have the DAS City, to have these affairs, and I thought well, if your whole, I have you learned a rule, and then you discovered the rules that apply to you. Then, of course, why would that rule be any different? I give you ve made it a life of of being a super young governor and then a soup ina you ve broken. All these rules are, these rules not to apply to you, then I think it's not a stretch to imagine will they are these other rules on applied me either
I'm gonna need some one in the position that doesn't think purposes apply to them and some level which is dicey theirs. I got cedars Sinai guy. I think once your president, though an sensing from Monica Body language once you're in the White House, and once you occupy the office, there is a standard that we should be holding you too, because you are supposed to kind of almost haven't out of body experience and become the president. He always was a point you are examining your humanness aside and for the next eight years be the president right. People have complicated lives here, but I believe that when you're in elected official you're put there by the voters, your put there by the taxpayers, the taxpayers are betting on you and you're supposed to represent the integrity of the country. What you do before and you do after is between,
you in the law- and you and your yes, the I agree, but let me pay an analogy so you're about to go, get a liver transplant in your prayers. And the two options. This surgeon is a five on the scale level, but he is never cheered on his wife, this guy, is a tan, is best urging the world any fuck, someone hourly who Are you gonna have do your surgery about one percent of us are going to have the guy who's a piece of shit morally, but the best surge in the world do or liver transplant, but the but more our duty does transfer more in politics in. Our name leader, Sheridan Surgery, talks with good point. That's a great deal and companion, though you do have to consider a little bit and how they behave as if it will potentially transfer into how they behave in being the president I don't baby. You agree with me on this text
somebody's cutting we're doing for me, I don't want them to be thinking about whose sexting me now where we already have the data, we know that there are tat, they ve taken an aptitude test in this hypothetical and they are the best surgeon ensure when they now your body, like all that Jimmy looks like it is I love tidies blah blah blah but they will pass that and then they get to the business at hand they go into his own. They given to us If anyone would pick that person you're now. Those are eighty per cent, the same thing yeah I just wonder if we need to be a little less delicate about to your point for asking for someone who have been to have lived. Forty five to fifty. T flawlessly dazzling person is quite fine. I don't think we're in a very dangerous situation. I launched a guy that will take the big swaying. I once you things Solly, you isn't good in a night club
again my guy using them as rock stars or when the ones that were a super juicy, but wait. So I this conversation to me a little nervous because, as you know, you're very good tat is what trumps supporters think found when they think they make it doesn't matter that he sang grabbing women by the pussy roar, those things relevant to what he can do. These gonna make America greater. I gonna go on and I guess yeah and I hate that. I know you either. I dont like it either, but by force myself at all times, any time. One of these stories comes out. I literally force myself to imagine. The exact same story came out about Obama because I loved Obama, but that's not the point. So you used to force yourself to imagine it's a bomb others saying about this in a bomb as with some dude on a bus, and he says I grabbed by the pussy. First of all, because
level by Mamma. I bet he doesn't even mean there. I think he's trying to be funny to that. Guy think he wants it. Gotta, like I'm angle, do all these excuses, because I love obama- and just I think it's worth while for people on besides, it just imagine their favorite person, as is what just did you at least, understand how the other people feel. I think it's incumbent upon us to try to at least understand how they feel and quite often one. Run transgressions through the Obama test, a mighty yeah. I understand how you feel if it's one thing If it's all the things in the mobile would no longer have been my favorite person even yours, if all of the things or transparent Andy, I don't know man and I like them, so maybe he's fucking vocally against vain gay marriage which so it's like he could not have been more on the wrong side. Of that my opinion, I still like the guy and I was like well, he doesn't us not other stuff. I agree I'm gonna stand by him, so I know what it's like to. Compromise your own morals
There is another aspect to the person you are willing to go along with. I think we all do it, I'm lucky you. Work with me and I got you wretched decides shrill. I want, I don't believe, leave you out, but your price Mart stay out of out of everyday. Can I ask you I'm confused by this? So the rule, as we now know it is, you can only serve to terms as president, but two consecutive terms correct. So the rule is, you can serve to terms they do not have to be consecutive hours and you can serve to years of someone else's presidency. If you inherit the press, you easy to do tat if you that around in this this doesn't come until after after our first four terms may amend the constitution to basely, say your car.
The two terms plus two of an inherited term right before that there are no rules on this, so as you, the longest serving president of yours, longest serving president is elected four times, but then he dies does for months, and it is his fourth term and the man who takes over for him very true men is probably less prepared to become president than any other man in history really during Truman's eighty two days as vice president, he only meets Sdr twice. He never steps foot in the map room where the war is being planned. He's not briefed on the atomic bomb. He doesn't need a single foreign leader or get a single intelligence. Breathing he's, basically just out socialized and he's got to come in and decide whether or not to drop two atomic bombs April 12th, one thousand nine hundred and forty five. He gets a call that he needs to come over to the White House and he thinks he's in trouble and about to get berated by the president. So several hours later he gets the White House. Eleanor Roosevelt puts her hand on his show and says Harry, the president is dead and he says, is there anything I can do There's no is there anything I can do for you for you're the one in trouble. Now
So what is? Truman spend his first five days doing going into the map urban figuring out what the hell is going on with the war ass first nine months he ends the war shapes the Pope Post war order has to figure out stolen, has to deal with. Churchill has to contemplate moving a million men from the european, Peter to the Asian Pacific Theatre. Any has one of the most remarkable presidencies in history wildly rise to the occasion, her he more than any other, were there any that universal qualities of the folks that did rise to the occasion and in universal qualities that got people to do a shitty job. So I think there are two things I think there were the circumstances of the moment and the personality of the man and in the case of Harry true men, both those things converge. You had an incredibly important moment that meant the empty armed men who were of a different breed than that. Then German felt like the future and the fate of the world rested on Harry treatments.
SAS and they were determined to make him six to help him. So you compare and contrast that with Lyndon Johnson, who inherited a kennedys foreign policy team who didn't think the future of the world rested on Lyndon Johnson thought he was basically a bumpkin from Texas mocked him behind his back antagonized him behind his back and in many respects, did a lot of things to undermine him and for him, so without inherited men to advise him on how to shape the cold war policy. He completely fumbled Vietnam, but jobs. Is it fall to cause he didn't. He wasn't able to demonstrate the same level of courage on Vietnam that he did on civil rights, so I'm getting a very one sided view of linen, be Johnson, that care o version and from but I'm learning I'm on book number four, I mean just a piece, shit and locked away stole every election. He quote one enriched himself beyond measure through his political ties. Just a phone
on con man in ways that did rise to the level of president joy but jaded, Sense of humor. Is that a pretty accurate summation? I think that's right, but I also think that the the reasons that made Lyndon Johnson so despicable are the things that made him an asset to shepherd through the Civil Rights ACT of nineteen. Sixty four and one thousand nine hundred and sixty five were interviewing George Hw Bush before he died for the book and his view on Lyndon. Johnson is your head Kennedy not Miss fascinated you wouldn't have had such sweeping civil rights legislation. I am sixties because you needed a southerner with that Texan Tang, who had a track record ripped the segregation is too kind of looked the part of the people who were on the wrongs.
If history yes effort, it will that's how I make Lane Howard Stern in his help with their gay rights. Movement is like you didn't need another far lefty liberal, like me same allow gay marriage. You needed a dude who actually spoke to the dunes. It might not have been in favour of that. Ok, what is when the weak mean so. This is another sort of certain things that I've talked to Adam Grant about. One is helping me find worry time. Ok, so I kinda, both you. I worry about everything, so he told me to schedule worried I ways I deal with worry time, rice due on things, I'm incredibly unpleasant to be around a high.
The bathtub. I go to the gym and I read history, but the other thing is. I found that I was having a really hard time, letting things roll off my shoulder right. You I'd, be worried about something or stressed something I just stew on air and harp on it, and so on have some conversations that out about this, and he encouraged me to find a mechanism that worked for me. So I decided that I would treat the year like fifty two best of seven series. Fifty two weeks in the year, seven days a week and I won the week if I went to bed happier than I woke up four out of the seven days. The reason I like this map. This epidemic competitive person. I, like sports, the analogy work for me, but the other reason I like do is It allowed me to have some bad days and so that if the day was just complete shit like ok, I'm down zero, one amateur come back in a minute when the next, but my wife- and I argue about this because she she's very strong opinions.
How I should define winning the day and all I care about is what happens when the buzzer goes off. That's out of five so obviously have a bad day all the way up until like eleven fifty, and I can pull something off to make me happier than when I woke up, I win the day twelve behind the arc. Mary, a shot at it. Ask it yeah. What's your hand, bag of tools that can turn your day around? Do you have a few? So I have. I have a handful theo and it depends on what's causing the anxiety, sometimes physical, rigour exo. If I'm angry, the gym really helps yo. If I'm sad about something turning my phone off and just spending time of my three daughters there, It is like the easiest waited cheer myself up, sometimes been eating. Jellybean I feel like I can eat my feelings, but if I'm upset that I'm gaining way, it's counterproductive and also your narrative self will be happy with those first to decisions in and not so pleased with a third. But you have three daughters.
Daughters, holder that five and a half three and a half in six months. Oh my god, oh you're, in this, the thick of it, you wanna, hear something wild about the middle one. When I was writing acts and president's, I got stuck on the James Garfield to Chester. Arthur chapter and we can think of a middle name, and I was sitting at our dining room table with a stack of outdated books from the eighteen. Hundreds, aha and I said my work. You know at least call. Her Garfield aim is after James Garfield. Oh, I love it. That's fantastic to just you collect locks. Presidential hair, I'm so a word is one procure at how many locks do you have a? When? Did it start? So it's a small ecosystem of historic hair, factors so what a convention that would be there. I will cite the people that I have encountered, who collect press
Herr normal. I dont believe that we must say that I am gone bullshit. I know that is if the other was the interviews elder. So I have George Wash ever Lock of George Washington are up, I have two strands of William Henry Harrison's care taken off his head, while his body lay in rest in the east I have six strands of Abraham, Lincoln hair from the night ass, an Asian now Ronald Reagan. I have right. Eisenhower. Have John Adams lie in active negotiations for Andrew Jackson? Oh my active negotiate. So where are these broke? I have dementias only like mine people on this chap room than are trading these things and another hundred there thought now is this: takes people in their their mouths basement to learn what wall? What's the most you ve spent on a lock of hair, so here too it also has complicated. I have a rule with my wife, where I'm not allowed to spend money on hair with my dealer:
aye aye, over pay for presidential autographs and get the hair is a kick back. Ok, so, what's the most, who spent for an autograph wink wink, I would say that the most Jesus. I want to knock me out of my need it. I can't you can run up a bit like five grand on her if action is not going to see a lot of George Washington's hair, you guys in valleys are millions because, because what you're sitting on is Cloning in your basement becomes an off everything about the cloning. If it's not a hare, follicle, then you're limited and what you can Can I bring a portion of the other? You sprang back his nose back. Do you have any followed? I do it the way Harrison or follicles, and one of the strands of Lincoln Article o my you could bring. Abraham Lincoln? You could find out if this? What's the disease Lincoln
Oh, oh, more, more families, morphing ass. We mark Marvin's harp and zero than he had done so they say. Lincoln, had this genetic disease Martians, which I have to sell, it knows that I have basically to tell tale signs, are like really ganglia tall, an gaunt and ended your phalanges are particularly in what would it Hence it do as you, your aorta blows up, so they say he would have died very young even had he not been shot. So what you to do is in your basement. You could bring one to full term. You could grow in Abraham, Lincoln for till like eighty years and see, if is a order, would blow up to find out. If this is true, but do they have a cure for Marvin's cuz, then we could apply the cure to once we talked about the park. Yes, I got sent a lot of stuff. I read I read about it and wonders was like you definitely have a freak divine look it up, but that there are treatments here and there is the levels of how bad you can have it. So in any way, can we publicly put out a request?
her Obama's air enjoying you want living president. So this is, I get asked this question a lot about president trumped just because, the famous hair and my standard bumper sticker answer? Is I dont collect the hair of the living? that's mine, but it's complicated quest idea what they have to say that I can only be one history of have to pronounce claim. Rather I do not collect the herald living here. Just before you got that you are to come over to my apartment, the hair. When we come already, I did want to companies. The hare would be the weirdest thing that you encountered, but you would remember it more than anything: however display so also an interesting question. Monitor high in the proponents of hair is very important. So when you take it to get framed, I have it they're attached to ribbons O conall and you cannot than to get them because for most of the nineteenth century, people then asked for autographs they asked for
acts of hair people write letters to the president saying, can I have a lock of your hair? The president would cut a large attacked you with wax to the papers. You test the age of the residue of the wax with the age of the residue at the paper with what's on the hare, that's part of how you authenticated, but you can never let the Hare leave your site. So what it's on the ribbon you take it to the frame store you have to sort of hang out their obsessively and compulsive and I typically will video so transfer of the hair further documentation that there didn't lose its problems there. So many red flags were that have made. If I worked at like a walk in framework, and first someone peace, a hare frayne. Oh Marilla. I don't know that. I want to deal with this person. A second is: what are you if you would like to tell me the entire time I do this? Emmy God bless the people that have gone along with this really cool
I can't I want to start getting in secondary auxiliary here. People wanted some of my hair. I plenty of it. Oh yeah real offer that, to the hour I have on some of those present were just grab a little tough defer off of their dog and some one who was a bee. Poland strands a hair out, although maybe that's why many these prisoners were beholding. Maybe embracing about Eisenhower, how you is an hour's hair. He was bald rye fiebiger, no don't cube, that's a hair. She Little hare around his ears. I went out to your hair aria extra exclusive on a ball and die. This is stupid. Humans are like head hairs. Great, let's do it dear? Oh, my god. I know you are over my dead body here. It's all the same weight is located on their Jared. Thank you. So much for coming with such a pleasure in everybody. Ray
accidental president's it's fantastic in its endlessly fascinating. These eight bozos that end up sitting in the oval office Some of them turned out not to be bozos. Thank you, guys, and now my favorite part of the show the back checked with my saw me a bad man so ugly, I was telling a story. I knew someone who was a writer on on trash. He wrote in it so did the show, and then there was a table reed and then one. The higher up, Seward Bonaparte, creating the show whose very New York call them into this office and he goes. He goes Falcon MIKE. What the FUCK, you should have seen in fucking juries daily. They fought comedic He enters a new, few Leon is almost pew. Ok, but
Maybe he's always reviewed in banks one. I think that joke only works Are people who live in Lhasa? Angela would certainly does Khazars two different Delhi's, who just start their Jerry's Famous Delhi. What did that's in the name I did mad. The word famous is called Jerry same as Dell in respect for five locations beautiful place to get a sandwich. The eighty there's cancers in downtown Hollywood, which is more historic, yap right, but this, but that the stakes of wit the difference in the scene to this person who were at sea then Jerry's versus canter was it if you said that Jesus was born, Am I you know It was like it just content work, Mrs Flemming? Well, there was a tragedy. Yesterday, it's just so tragic. It's horrible
kobe? Yes, yes, oh five days ago gap, Sir public debts have this like massive residents with people, I agree and I think, there's more than one variable at play, so one as is yes, how well known? Are they globally there, but then there's also in my lifetime, like John Canny died in that was so heartbreaking because as a kid he was just the number want you now yet at this. In time you were like yeah he. You know he had a heart attack and economy. You feel like that, seem within the realm of possibility in either, and Belushi it's like you. Will you partied really hard in that, but someone who's like us, physic specimen Brule eats perfectly and trains, and all these things you're like what person should make it a hundred, so it feels more. Time. We I think I I know I agree and I thought the same, but then there is as third component
and this is what I was my guess complaining about today into a gallop back from you properly, so I started getting all these texts from people going like no more helicopter rights. Even when I say all these people, like five people Oh man can't right now a number, I think, probably cause of my bread pit experience Suddenly, it was on a line that I wrote in a helicopter with Brad Pitt, but some so some people yelled at me and I thought okay offers outrages. Kind of like. Why want to write and helicopter when I want to, because this tragedy happened doesn't mean I can't right now, so I thought I had that thought: okay, and then suddenly. I, like you, know this the thing is it hurts? It should happen its tragic and it feels preventable. It feels preventable here right, but had he died in a car accident, you D gone like or no people have to drive. Well, that's what I said: yeah. That's your point. That is exactly my point but I would argue, is here's a guy who flew to every single l, a basketball game and a helicopter theirs.
Nothing to say that had he been in a car driving in that heavy traffic of assumes that he would have been killed ten years ago. If he didn't find helicopters, it is hard to now and we just really want. We don't ever want to be hurt like that again or experience a tree you like that again, so we just want to remove anything that could lead to that, but I don't think. Grounded in a ton of actual threat level to people's lives. I think this is like me, when Homer share its exactly that we're not a risk. I'm willing to take here Can we really that's not arrest? You should be willing, I yeah, but it's just you know what will happen if I die on motorcycle people. We like in other, be mad at me, Are you mad at me for dinosaurs? I will be now. You didn't have to write a motorcycle, and I understand that I do but I have to recycle
why won't mind you'd, be I only I want my honest about that? You don't have to do you know. Not yet not to turn not to exist. But yes, it means I wanna have on planet earth and it's my experience I get to have and I get the pic and you do too is I wanted to involve motorcycles. I understand, then, you want years did involve high flying by high fine without a howling is my choice and I was a teenager so I had no one, and I still have no one to also this already still. I stand corrected on a few facts. Checks ago we had a debate about how important apparent is this is a single person about world lawyer above zero one. Eighty! Well! Yes, your day when I was reading about all this, my God, compounded by the fact that, in fact that there are other people who are hitched onto his life
they depend on him, nationally and all of these ways I mean, which is why I think this death also other reason: white affected people so much it is. A lot of people were emotionally tied to him. Sports figures have them you ve been on emotional journeys with Toby whether you're he was a teenager right on a high school, whether you're a fan of outlay, and you had the elation of his victories and shared in his victories or you any you're a fan of any others. Forced him that he destroyed, which he did so he's a part of heartbreak. You ve had like yeah in sports, really do bring people together and it builds a community. He's what about the helm of that I mean it is so deep in the imo. In all routes he has to so many people, but the children. It just feels, like sir, so sad to think that they dont,
Anthea and I was like, oh my god, of if it was a single person and a helicopter of course would be sad, but it wouldn't be this I mean look. This is us also so compounded by the fact that there were kids out man, helicopter and I mean value, she's on. I was trying to imagine that to it. What is it like to have your family member on the helicopter? and then one of the people on the helicopter is like sucking up all the focus of this unless you're one of the other I now and I dont- I don't know, I don't know whether that makes it worse or less bad. It's I don't know if you like, I lost someone and then also the world, why? I don't know, but I just I kept thinking like we, there were a lot of other people in the helicopter. I don't know who they are, and I dont know you know what I'm saying: they're, not a headline. It's very elbow
I was going to say, is high flying without a helmet near I did when I was a teenager and I didn't have any attachments. We, my parents, of course, but no one depending on me, and so you know you have to write a motorcycle and life. You say, and I m that's fine. I think everyone in your life knows that about you, but you do have to factor in when you have people who need you all either by the way it's changed. Everything which is used to ride. I'm not naive recognize it has an exponential lethal factor to it. Then say. I yoga that your thing in past. I would say, because I personally non subscribed to measuring the life by its longevity. I think gum there are lots of but that died young that had much bigger life's and a bunch of people that made it rob really long time. Whatever so evil
not like. Ok, via dynamo, recycle accent. I will have died. Doing then I was loving doing in that moment and I'm not here? No more, but I had the perfect experience while I was here like to me, it's not tragic because I'm not around to mourn. My own death knowing there are now people that would be around to mourn my death. Obviously, exit, much more complicated, yeah. There's really sat opposite offensive to anyone, but I just as my hobby is I'm not I play doubles advocate my head as my hobby in so, unlike I'm aware, of the gravity of it and then I the parliament brain goes, it's a little shocking, more people of that calibre don't die more often like I just it felt like a long time that make any sense. They google, how many deaths are there in the United States of America annually
website medical news today, dot com, they say accords to the centres for Disease Control and prevention. There were two million eight hundred thirteen thousand five hundred three register deaths in the United States and twenty seventeen, the that's. What I'm saying is a couple million people die. Is all ties into my new obsession, Whitney Houston Oh yeah, obsesses, Whitney yeah. As of recently I'm obsessed with witten couple days ago, the idea like six. Six days ago, yeah Christen went to bed early and I I sat in my Ipad embed and watched the Showtime dot documentary, which I love I loved I was heartbroken I wanted to take a time machine, don't worry, I'm still going back to find your grandma, but second star is to rescue her. I know, but in my mind they could it. So hard breaking choose so talented and I could see
this enormous duality. She was juggling and it's so harbour dynamic. So many people are juggling a duality and anyways. So Kobe is in the realm of like Whitney Houston, I'm just saying: there's it shouldn't feel as shocking as it does when it happens, because two million people a year die in the countryside. Actually, it's gonna be some of the famous people zooming or now it's because it's because these people Toby definitely kind of being like the shining example this. They feel other worldly entrance nay, like real godlike way, may have been given something very very spent. DA. We are that just most men's on earth. Ninety nine percent of humans can achieve even if they work, even if they did everything that he did here he's just special unjust, like Whitney's special and the exact same way, and it feels like, oh, my god, if those p
bull, compare Asia could make you feel I opened out. That's a good point, that's a good one. Can this be a three part fact check, because I now want to explore another thing that was happening to me last night. So then we decided to watch the boy mere max. Just was so excited that it was made by mere make the mere MAX documentary from two thousand eighteen about Whitney. There's so much fun, give the mom saying that God gave her that ability- and God gave her that in God, yes in many times throughout the document, she's been reminded that God gave her. That talent- and I was getting so triggered, knowing my baggage, I'm unlike here, this girl has worked her fucking ass off for sixteen years to do what she can do. Endless practice understands music. All these different factors, and she's act like now. Someone touched her shoulder, that's not the truth. It is the truth, a little bit better.
It was not a god. I've yeah, I'm not I'm not saying it's God or not, but if forty five people who did exactly everything Whitney Houston dead she'd, be the only ones sounding like that. Still forty. Five million people have said to be honest. She there there are some people who are given gear. Well, she! Yes, she had. She has some physiological aptitude. To sound the way she did. If she can't take credit for her genetics, your mom, is an amazing singer and she really grew up like singing non. Stop the ten thousand hours thing you know, at least, if you believe that book at all at least one of persuasive, I don't think, is buying her and Seether. What he's saying in the book or not, but he's a no of the world. Pass symphony musicians. It really can be traced immediately to how much they practice yeah. I think there
A combination of ours is a massively important and working hard, is that where protection- and I think you can be brilliant by hard work, but this sort of circling back to our genius conversation. Aha, there are certain people on earth who are above that its genetic sits. Whatever you can call me, you you're going a scientific whereby calling it genetics and people say God and whatever you want to believe, but there's something extra. I do think, when I think about those people, I think of it a little more spiritually than science. I mean, I think she sings better than anyone that ever some juvenile you do. I do yeah
set was being bandied about a lot and and in any event Christian was Anna and again always kind deferred hurt. I don't really know technically whether some great enough here, she's an incredible singer, but I was thinking like really like better than a wreath of Franklin like to me a wreath of Franklin: I'm like. Oh, my god, it's like there's a fuck. This involves me. I've never heard all my god. I love a wreath of Frank in Blue, brothers, when she sings behind the register is a may be on, say, may hear one plus one by beyond, say I'm like that's as good as a human can sing it makes you it's me and you oh I love that anyway. Ok, J, Gerard Collins, we
color, we loved, really loved him yeah yeah, and he was so informed and he's like grown in where he was there to talk one thing, but by God could I have talked to him about like eleven different topics for a full episodes. F in ITALY, scene of another genius, Adam grab a connector, actually not a connector here, but he knows it and I went over public ceremony- were remarried doktor irritabile an atom Graham it to us. Far away. We love. Three husbands Anyway, we love Adam. We love Jared logos. Ok, so you said that because he was staying at the W hotel right and you said that they tell people, dont hotel. When I checked him, they Didier that's funny, because I mean to be as I didn't. You may do doubt, and I was gonna call them and see if they said it for I lay down. There is on the website or anything
but but does it say on website, but the website has tons of pictures that if you were looking for a way of working right, you re probably would know not to book. They were out in a sea of our EU, posing I would carbon going high. I have six small children nor, MRS, so good, a hotel for us this in just see what they say like no, that's true as a bad hotel for you in your six kids. That is true, but it made its how Mikey they said that upon tracking and they are calling making reservation they. Hell you up front, didn't tell me up front up, they is gonna be loud tonight. Dunno Friday. Nights are allowed here and I think I mean. That's good to have to warn you cuz, I'm assuming they just deal with calls all night long to the front desk like what the fuck is going on down there. This is not a family or tell good over. We told you use the condoms in the menu bar the sex kit at newgate. So I said that I thought that chaired was our second road scholar and you thought, through
I did- and you re oh good, who is the third round and was her and Eric our Ceti Alpha right right, right, yeah and there might have been more, but I looked through the website. I was taking a long time, so I did a glare. And I think only those three ok said the book that got him into President's when he was young is called the buck stops here. It's by Alex prevents in or Provence and Hooker, and you can get that book. If you search
or it is imprint, but it's out you know everywhere you get its limited. Oh did you sign copy I'd, love, no new home. At one point, you said that you would imagine that eighty percent of the country does it leaned super far left or super far right right, so issues like so hard to get an actual number on that. Obviously, as you know, by currently trumps base his guys, not like republic into voted for him by road or staunchly supportive of hemp. Aha around thirty to thirty five percent of the country's that's a far right, leaning group. We just talked about this. The other day I was saying I kind of disagreed that I thought that there were a ton of people there are are his base that are that were prior to him. A political which is a different of opinion. You and I have
now you have people voted for him who were but who or maybe a political but his bases way more than people who vote for these are people that are doing the rallies at our lawyer. S stay here and I'm I'm saying I think my hunches that many of those people dont have a political policy that they believe in they don't have a platform that they agree with. They like that representative. They, like Donald Trump yeah, I mean when he represents, though, is very far right that his red break is very running. Well has his what he does, but his rhetoric is so in ways he is very high. Right in another way, she's not far right at all, like the fact that he wanted NAFTA to be re done, is burdened conventionally left position, the tariff wars and varied, not encouraged on the right. So,
did he does he has some better, but it's all in opposition to what the Democrats have been doing? Let's put it this way and give he said he was proud choice. I dont think he loses any of his base. The people who love him and where his hat, I dont think him making a decision to be pro that He loses any of those followers, so what I'm saying is that thing alive aren't necessarily so issue minded as much as they identify with whatever message he saying they really it to him and made they feel like he has their interests in mind which could largely, namely political by if he said, I think we should be really inclusive. Heedless people yeah, I rate so but means Enough- Our big isn't really a political position. It can have some idiot down. You can have some downstream stop it. I'm saying you look. The conventional tenets of the left and the right yeah I mean the conventional tenants are gone. I mean that. Is this the truth?
all of its all muddled up now, but if you look at the current state of what it means to be, a extremely laughed or extremely right example of give on our side of the street would be their worm bunch, a bunch people, even gay and lesbian folks, that loved Obama in voted form and he was outwardly against gay marriage. And so somehow his being was transcending his policy, and I am now a year- and I just like He represented something he represented. Hope in here you represented equality and he represented all these things that were the ring pillars, and then there was others. There was policy stuff, but most people, what they loved about. Obama was in his centrist, take on the economy or his this inner, legally loved Obama. For sure I mean I I think about this at a little different and a couple ways wine,
was at length. Gay marriage was already, legal and then he was like I'm not really for it. If that were the case, I don't think he would have what he had the amount of followers and if he was actively going again, something that was already existing, he just he was going with something that was already existing. He wasn't like standing up for something new which then he did do of course, and I maybe I'm wrong about this, but I feel that since Obama, the country like these extreme left and right I mean There- was some tiny percentage. Of course always are always. Spend, but its grown. So much since then we didn't have burned, is
Right I mean, I think it's all I think it's walked. I think it goes back to the point I was making you originally brought up, which is. I just think that, because of social media, the people that are saying the most outrageous things are now finding their voice and headlines of major publications, but is more than that. We see reflected in our candidates now and in their support their support leg. And has a lot of support or more than anyone, man living in the eye of a lot of support there there, as far as Democrats, go very the left on the side. Oh yeah Democrats, so you know I think these have grown a real Do I think these extremes have grown. I think they were onto yeah. I still think, though, that its mission
leading? I think those who I think way more people are in the Middle Pierre Middle yeah. Anyhow. Ok, so I said, there's been for impeachment and he said Andrew Johnson, Clinton and Tromp, but he didn't say next and I think, as we adjust act about next, and so maybe he just will also be. I think, because he resigned before there was a Senate hearing. He resigned before he was removed, but he was on peached. He wasn t. Yeah by the house in there He resigned before the Senate then tried the case right, so I dont. It doesn't seem like a half impeachment or knelt from pig is unimpeached president right forever and then, if whether his removed or knowledge I don't know came rushing out. Ok, he wanted me to check to sort of stand by him on the fact that people who collect presidential here are normally
but I couldn't really find any of you join. Like chat rangers, one picture of one man Sammy, Norma Hooker. His hard to know is what look dormer here, like a boy next door or on help on that's prowling, I mean he was a handsome on Monday. I hereby man away a lot ranges You know from helped Emma Xenia, like he'd, have crutches ensure Yang up the beach. I also, though, think a pal you wouldn T, because one a handicap, sure you do you're, also very fraid of strangers and drawing out of their long sceptic all the way on this person. Maybe China swindle me, and in that case he would be yeah, so he can take his crutches interest caught for childhood. It also it so funny like. I only want to get into a unanimous vote in the same means or get member is that I look forward to those things.
So like I was there I mean. Are you want them so bad that I manifested them? But yes, someone who's, try They take advantage of someone. I pray that they cross my path. I now isn't it fucked up. Why would I wanna be a tell anything like that because you fell taken aback so obviously, embarrassingly is ever to get rid of say you want to be on top of the sheriff near, they may be under always colonel nice, which is, I feel, capable of finding myself against those people, and I want to defeat them before they can do it to people that are vulnerable. Some nice waste, I think it's true. I think it's all about my my things about protecting my mom, be you know not be able to intervene and protect. My ma am for life. Made me one intervene and protect. I think that's definitely factor, but I think the molesting is a big factor. I think there's a lot of things that sheriff I'm from it. Ok did did Lincoln, have marked
I don't think that's. His goes has become talking about your kindness. I know. I know that President Lincoln have the arguments that Abraham, but we know your we know Lincoln Shepherd does not are fully don't I'm thinking into young to show the sign now pretty glaringly she's a new back, her she's, very strong. Oh my god. I don't think Marvin's people are so I thought I was gonna tough as well I'll get you now based on Lincoln's unusual physical appearance, Doktor, Abraham Gordon proposed clubbed brilliantly eleven Abraham investigating Abraham Lincoln, had struck him duck. Abraham, Lincoln Love. That's a ray of Gordon Fine Doktor Gordon gave you Doctor Gordon Doktor ACORN propose a nineteen sixty two that Lincoln had Marfa Syndrome testing Lincoln's DNA from Orphan syndrome was completed in the ninety, but such it oh, but such a test was not performed, want
I mean I was so stupid. Why would they right is the best design. I once saw on the Detroit River said: don't tie your boats to the sign, I don't know by imagine it. I don't think I imagine, and I think, even ever photograph there was a sign on the bank of the river said. Don't tie off boats to the sign Maybe there was another like sign on the other side that I couldn't read it, but I want to say, We can go anywhere about like why I'm tired like of rope regions bill, was like someone, but maybe this mistake was doing some. We wasn't, it would release from our side. The stick was only holding a sign. That said, do not bode after this sign wow so he may have had it is. I guess what people are saying but yeah.
You say may have so no one knows for sure. If he had a well let's, let's go back, friends, Pisa here and there I guess some, they gotta have the follicle sundown yeah, but he has the falcon, also the Volga than he could so you could blow the winner of this came slowly yet get up to a topical, real click. The aim after Topol about there's no problem. Well, everyone knows what the present problem, the peeing, that conversation came back up in my life, and I think that it may have been a seizure and then I peed thou would be one thing, but there don't take it seriously, I only me like you down you don't like one appointed, but you have been in severe back pain like three other times prior to the painter pants in life,
I love you. I respect you, I care about you. I want you to be safe. You be appeased the bed, it's not a big deal and really scared you and I think it may just might use- might appear the battle it. Ok, if I just speed, thou would be one thing, but there were so many other factors are implying that the Roma on your head. I was in severe back pain right, but does you dont like one, but you have been in severe back pain like three other times prior to the painter pants in life. I've had back puts at its very specific thou great. I just think that, it might be coincidental that those things overlapped came back the history of back pain. You don't have a history in the bed. I've never paid the bad right, but we do have a history backpack
so something new happened which is supported in the sheets, Anna irritably oriented and then wait you're incredibly disorient yeah. I don't remember that per oh, I mean I say it's said every time attack we're going to turn around the tapes up. Yes, I was incredibly disoriented, but I will up and I guess I interpret that is like you woke up in your confused, because why Was it wedding, your bad? I was I was I was disorient using beyond like if I pay the bed tonight more of him. You ok, sure, ok and then Helen, bob on my head and then I had really about back pain and then which this I wrote off, but now I'm coming back to, I went to the doctor your suit. They suitor her had nothing had a anything else and they didn't even do this being thing- and I was kind of give me a steroid shot for the back pain. But then the next day my
bags were so sore like a vow like I had run a marathon or something they were really really fatigued, and I thought that was maybe because I got the steerage shadow. My legs were like compensating for the back pain or some thing. I just sort of wrote that part off, but then I was on a date and this all came up and this motion your suit. I suitor her had recently had a seizure. So then I was lying about this being thing and I was kind of saying it in like armed hypochondriac enable these. Where things about this oh, my God, is there no resolution to this story and I said no, and he was like. Oh my god he's like that is really scary and I was like yeah I mean. Could I guess it could have been like a spray, or maybe even a seizure in whose like well I'd. I'd, really don't want to scare you, but the muscle pain the fatigue is like is really common after seizures, and I had
I have a really really bad Muslim. Is your muscles are contracting erasing so much anyhow? So then I emailed Doktor Eric Toby, because I was panic yes and you That was in saying that I am quite sure that your blurring the lines lobe of his his generosity wine is because I have seen him to treat usurpation. Ok, he's a wealthy by scans on asked. Why don't you ask your friend is my friend I will But that's my own. Hang ups, all I can I would feel like I was in. Position by sending him that email me an hour they might come and drag unlike the in it. So it's all me. I don't really think that you were wrong for doing it. I do it just gave me a little bit like the like the chills that I would be nervous. It do that there are around. But that goes along with my like, which is a character defect, not asking for help. So I am not saying that you're
on that, I am right. I'm saying I personally would have hard time doing here. I'm gonna say something you're not like at all. Here it comes really beautiful. Girls think the world's nicer than it is because when they go in places the people are very excited to look at them and talk to them and give them their coffee and yeah. I bet, doktor double love, getting an email from you, your very cute and fun, and when I'm an older man yeah I'll, probably love it. If a thirty two year old wants me. Diagnosed with epilepsy, so I'm just a big angli do, So I had a marble and I'm like I got problem my ass back in theirs there's nothing about it! That, first of all, her see realistic, nay, you're, a famous person. If you ok, right, ruddy annual beyond all excited and tell you we have at last,
but I would I was I'd like to think. I recognise that part of the reason their willing to do it is cause, I'm famous, which is another reason I have to be ethical about it in. You is a hot check me to be a little more ethical. Ok, ok, first about Thank you fucking, not through sure like. I can see models having this problem, but I'm not that so I don't follow. That you're hot piece ass check, ok and do think that Monica doesn't work. Just fine Monica doesn't have to ever think that, but I mean every person we now in our life is currently in love with it. That is a fact. Now, that's not true at all back, I'm that's mine Neither do I feel glad that I emailed area were even closer to worry about by the way he paused some pictures of him on the ground are those which would I almost bald. Jimmy called her his girlfriend. I love you
release my area. We love you Mary S, Adam Grant merrier, although I'm even if we all get married among us, see him at all. You're gonna be on their examination tee in twelve wait for any ill, nor I would have thought of that. There really get back
Transcript generated on 2020-01-30.