Jessica Lahey is an American teacher and author. She writes the bi-weekly 'Parent-Teacher Conference' advice column for the New York Times, is a regular contributor to the Atlantic and wrote the book, The Gift of Failure. Jessica chats with the Armchair Expert about the importance of childhood autonomy, the level of parental involvement to maximize childhood growth, and the profundity of the word 'yet' when engaging with children. Dax asks about the concept of "desirable difficulties" and Jessica explains why the internet hasn't replaced the need for learning facts. The two discuss loving your children for who they are; not who you want them to be, how to commit information to long term memory and allowing kids to have ownership of their knowledge.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Well done, welcome welcome to arm chair expert experts on expert I'm joined by my favorite expert, Monica monsoon. Monica then said, we decided something grass about Markham seven or you always that she said your words I a diary fine intestinal monsoons, oh boy, we have a great acts and her answer. They Jessica lay he. She is a teacher, a writer in a mom. She writes about education, parenting and child welfare for the Atlantic, Vermont public radio. In the New York Times in sheep muslim certainly is the author of the New York Times best selling book the gift of failure. How the best parents learned Elect goes to their children can succeed this is one of our favorite themes. When you Go has very similar position when I was editing back. I was really no dang how many nuggets of wisdom she has in their path bound point point we're goin yet also,
We ve never had a guest on that real time cited as well as she does like every single thing. She knows she remembers where she learned it and in what volume- and it was amazing, ass, yet so without there are do. Please enjoy Jessica, Leahy, he's from Jessica. I am from Massachusetts, but I now live in format. Let your Burlington kinder, stereotypes, come to mind, obviously home abandoned Jerry's, yeah yeah home, then in geriatric, actually go to the factory, I'll not now. Obviously they can go to the factory in Waterbury, it's really quite low in killing ten. As a kid I went on a couple trips to killing tend to go skiing, killing pretty great. I
I've self a fan of Loon, because that's where I used to teach skiing a long time ago, we actually I'm looking at my window right now at about five inches of snow, you taught ski. I got to teach and disabled scheme at noon mountain. They haven't adaptive ski programme there, so I got to teach in a like kids with down syndrome and the funny thing about them as they dont have any fear really. So when you're on the ski slope with them, you have described in front of them but backwards so that they don't like shoot off in the woods and stuff I used to work with blind scares and stuff like that was really fun. Oh, my goodness tat was great. I have anxiety about how sooner knowledge to my daughter, who appears to be able and most ways. I can't imagine compounding it with other challenges: you're a unique person I just like teaching start aware ended up with what I'm doing now is essential.
like teaching actually thought I really like skiing, but it turns out. I just really like teachings gearing up about the sort of Ben the thread through the whole thing. Just you didn't even aim to be a teacher. Is that accurate, you're in law school? Do knives that you and see Don T know, I actually wolberg our first place, she taught was doing so. That's can carries no. I know it's true. I was positive. I was gonna. Do you have a lot like I had it all figured out, and someone asked me to teach at this programme: do competition identification programme inside TAT, gift like middle school, high school, kids, about law in a democratic society and I just fell in love with a joke. I make a lot is that I came home them first day after teaching. My husband took one look at me and said: are you even done, a law school, because it was so obvious that I was completely sunk and I was going to be a teacher so dead, but I went straight into teaching and never look back spent.
a little over twenty years now, when you had your fantasy of practicing juvenile law. What was it specifically you imagined you'd be doing. I had worked in the Duke University. Is our programme for kids, who had possibly been sexually physically abused, as called the Duke Child Protection team and through my work there I met this district attorney, Marcia, Morey, she's, amazing, she's, judge now, and she became my mentor, and she was the assistant district attorney just in charge of juvenile court, and I got to shadow her and hang out with her sort of I first just to find What happened with the cases that we are working on for the child abuse and through that I've got to hang out in juvenile court a lot so the way, Durham Counties, district juvenile forward for kids is that there wasn't really for and against. It was sort of in the best in service to the kids and in service to the community, and so that's what I envisioned is that I was going to get to be a part of holding kids.
The repercussions of what they done, but at the same time also be in the best interests of the kind. In the best interest of society- and I got to run a program- there called teen court where it really fun? We would divert kids out of juvenile court and then we would put them in front of a jury of other kids. Sometimes I got to pretend to be the judge and stuff, and the kids would decide what the punishment was and they were so creative. It was things like you know. If you vandalized a used car parking lot, you're gonna have to work for that. Guy that own that lot and you we're gonna, have to work back the money that you caused him to have to spend to fix things and, of course it led to all kinds of great things, because they ended up building a relationship and blogger blog at the kids. him up at the best, the best ramifications for the kids actions. It was fantastic yo. Oh it's interesting about those solutions, as they are actually amending the damage caused, as opposed to our system, which little abstract it's a little late.
The idea is to send one that something that's increasing more in schools. These days, too, is instead of saying: ok. Well, we're gonna take not a class and put you in this a room over here so that you can disrupt my learning, we're doing a little furthermore, trauma and teaching like why are you freaking out my class Is it because something's happening with you at home, but at the same time helping them? understand that when they act out and class or they do something to hurt someone else that there's gonna be not just punishment but consequences that makes sense so I'm seeing more and more of that, an education that's been great to see to go even in the Pre school, my girls, if they hurt Somebody, the first response is supposed to be: what do you need and then they have to go get there? I saw the band AIDS or whatever it is like. They have to be active in solving this problem. They creates great yeah, so was it for you to go, I'm not gonna practice war or was it easy other things in
I mean the problem is as pregnant at the time with my kid who is now twenty one, and I was having nightmares about I you know a Morpheus imagined kid being in the horrible situations like in juvenile court, we would have a situation where you know we couldn't send this kid back home, because his house was under surveillance is a crack house, and so then we'd have to haul the parents in and the parents. Would you know it's just I was envisioning my kid and all those situations- and I had a pretty good sense- that I was gonna burn out, pretty He also you know, kids would show up in court and the judge would look and say anyone here to represent this kid and at the last second, someone would raise their hand there. Let go! I guess I'll. Do you know it just didn't work at that time I knew I was gonna be coming up against. You know that sort of constant beating my head against a wall feeling, whereas with teach
I felt a little more in control of the situation there in it was my classroom and I could focus the learning, instead of on some of the other crap that we have to deal with. Did you finish law school idea? Ok, I absolutely yeah, but you could have explored teaching at the university level. I assume, if you had a desire to teach, you go to junior high first now, I taught high school first, and I said I would never ever teach those middle school kids. Those kids are bonkers, never happen. Why would anyone want each middle school and then I got an fur- and they said well before you say no, because I think they certain new, I might come meet the kids and see that's the problem, you go and you meet and their wonderful and then I found out that middles kids, my jam, I mean they are as far as I'm concerned- middle school is where tat it's it's, where we have. This in credit,
potential to reach kids that haven't completely shut themselves off from adults. Yet they still trust us a little. Also in this magical time, when you can go to a kid- and you can say sweetie, it's not your fault that you're forgetting stuff, you don't have the equipment yet in Europe and to be able to do all of these things. So let me help you come up with strategies and it's a pretty cool time. It's a really call time for kids. You did, you feel like high school, like year having access to them just way too far downstream, like that the ship is pretty much sailed, while from the perspective of what I do, which is helping parents understand that they need to, let that can make. Mistakes and learn from them as opposed to O. My kid can ever make a mistake, because this Eggs are just too high. I think an high all right now. It feels like this place. Working are simply not allowed to ever make a mistake ever and it Stan Middle School. There's that little cushion where you feel like okay, well, you're, not too high school. Yet so at least there's a little bit of room forgets to learn from.
mistakes, as opposed to pretend they never happened or clearing the way so you others that, and I don't know middle school kid still, hug too. That's pretty great, yet talk to people they generally. If I had to say of what section of their education they hated the mouse, it tends to be a middle school, but for me it is by far my favor Period seventh grade for me ever get better. My whole life, if I could repeat one year, my life over and over gonna be seventh grade. over money. Why? Why why? So? I was dislikes- or I M dislike second self nurse through fourth grade or The disaster I couldn't reed I've thought I was stupid, I had to go to the special led class for an hour a day, and then I had a single teacher, mister wood who pulled me. Is it your great at math you're? Really good at math, and I want you to start teaching geometry to the other. Kids in class, which
blew my mind. Anything I would ever have the capacity to help other kids Lauren cause. I was struggling so much and then that launch being a junior high were in six great, I on the math team and then in seventh grade this great teacher Larry Declare who discovered I was in writing and then I was really interested in writing and I got something published in the little junior high yearly, literature magazine and so for me, like? Oh I'm not, damn. I can do this stuff and then mixed with the increasing independence of being in junior high, where I was sleeping over friends house every week and I had a mopeds- and I was mobile like I was starting to get this huge sense.
the tall me that I just walked and I've never got butter or you are lucky yeah. I had a great experience tube and that's because it was the first time I made friendships that felt like intimate friendships and like real community was built elementary school you're, just like learning how to be around people, I think, but in middle school. You start to like really Bela those communal friendships at our last day. For me anyway, I also had a great experience same. I got my best running junior yeah. That's actually really common that the nature of friendship changes from elementary school to middle school, mainly because an Andrew School. You know it's a proximity thing like oh mom and dad or friends with so and so and their kids are in the same. You know that kind of thing, whereas starting in middle school, starts to be about trying out different identities and you know o while she has, she has to ear piercings in one year and I dont know if I can ever do that, but she's gonna call.
you try on elements of that person's identity and see what fits somewhat. Doesn't and that's why middle school friendships often come and go at which can feel really traumatic, but what it is its kids reaching out sang That's interesting. Do I want to be like that, or do I not it's a really great thing actually, when they go through lots of different changes and friendships, So your work is in line with some other folks. We ve talked to like Wendy Mogul, but yours is on specifically the education side: you gonna break your work can t some key components one being motivation right. This is very crucial for whether kids are gonna, learn or not, learn or be creative, and also confidence verses competence and could you his tell us what what is like if you had a similar it down to a single ingredient that you think makes a student want,
to learn or become interested in something. What is that single ingredient? Or is it a few also like you're talking that as its intrinsic? nation, like when you're on a motorbike aspect if you're on train that slightly difficult- and you find you are so absorbed in the writing, because you have to be because you have to be so focused its just the right level of difficulty. You know how that you get that feeling we're like three hours could go by and you hardly noticed the passage of time because you're, so in sync, with the thing that's called flow me, I took some areas flow so that intrinsic Nation happens when we have three things going on with kids number one. They have autonomy, which means- and you are mentioning this about middle school right. The one of the reasons middle school can be so great. Is that sometimes This is why I said you are so lucky. Sometimes kids get to start exercising that autonomy and feeling like. Ah I get to make
sure decisions about my life and the problem. Of course, on the flip side is it lots of kids are not being given any autonomy, and so that's going wrong for them, but I told me and then competence which, as you mentioned, is not the same thing as confidence. Competencies, link. confidence based on actual experience like trying stuff, seeing if it works, keeping the things that worked and getting rid of the surf, the dozen and learning how to do better next time and then like all wait, I handled that thing. I can handle this new even harder thing. A number three is connection and that's for teacher it's like you ve, been relationships with your students. Are you making? You know the material for relevant to them, but as parents I use boil down to two things, which is we have to love the kids. We have not the kids we wish. We had, we can't just love them based on their performance. So when we have those three things: the autonomy, the competence and that connection based on
like who the kids actually are and really seeing them? That's how you get that intrinsic patient going and that's how you get kids who are like. Oh, I actually engaged with my learning. I have some choice on and I like to learn and I'm having some control or if we give them too much, extrinsic motivation, which is like carrots and sticks grades, paying them for grades. Doing too much surveillance over kids trying to control our kids too much. Those are all extrinsic motivations and what we do that, essentially, what we do is undermine their motivation like the fastest way to make a kid not want to learn math. Is to pay them for their mouth grades or give the mouth anxiety, but the fastest way, like the sure fire way to make them not to learn mouth over. The long term is, unfortunately grading or paying them for their grades or making it be all about that other thing, as opposed to the
math itself. I watch yourself by South West talk gases. Self myself, West EU runs the weak well, except for this year. Sadly, I'm self by South West EU runs the week before self myself less proper. So it's like ten thousand teacher, suddenly descend on asked and it's pretty cool yet, and so when I was listening to that talk, I was just kind of charging my experience with education and me, all mapped almost perfectly so elementary was terrible and then junior High was amazing and then the thrill of being good at it kind of war off by high school and then in high school and fell all extrinsic in reserve false orients yeah. It is in point. I had read on the road by care whack and I was like we're not going to college. So all the extrinsic, carrots, no bearing on my motivation, because I dont get desire to go there Well, then, Lombardo end up going to college, but I go there without
any desire to get a certain degree, because I'm pursuing comedy and acting is going so my mom will pay my rent. That environment, where I literally was just picking classed as I was interested in, I had no goal of having any certain GPA arrived at achieving any certain degree. If you chart my grades, I was a good junior eyes due to an average high school student and then a great college student, and I We have so much about me doing it for the right innovation. I see that a lot and when you give kids younger age, a little more choice, a little more autonomy. You can make that happen sooner to when you let kids have a little more choice about now what their learning bang you know, there's so much. You can do to give kids choice about what their learning and high school in and middle school, but the more I me the more choice you give them about the how the when the Y, all that stuff the more by and you can get kids, but there are lots of kids, the gesture
How can a bloom until they get to high school? I happen to have one of them. I think when he gets to college truly gets to choose what it is. He wants to learn that by the way doesn't happen to be in these boxes of what they want him to learn in high school you know the English, the mouth, the science that all these things sort of silos? I think he's more interested in integrating all that stuff, and so when he gets to choose and colleagues, that's when I think that kid's gonna really shine yeah, and I want you to describe earth's the raising of the hands and then I want you to tell us about the parents, because man could. I relate particularly now, where I'm doing my kids school work with them it is almost irresistible Paul. To solve something or them when they are struggling, and this is with the awareness of Wendy Margo and people like you and my wife's, very dialed, India, even with that knowledge is physically painful,
to not power. So why it's it's physically painful, to see our kids frustrated right so that at the very beginning of my book of the gift of failure, I talk about the fact that I was super pissed off at the parents of my students. really just livid anvil disclosure like super high horse. I was all like who I am the teacher and you people are getting in the way of the learning and how dare you, but at the moment I was most pissed off. I found out that my own case couldn't eyes on shoes. He was now. I got that I was here, and that was simply because it was so upsetting to see him frustrated and saying things like I feel so stupid, I'm never going to do it, and so I would do it for him because he wants to see their kid frustrated and its faster. Frankly, if
do it ourselves right there, that's one of the big motivators even like making them clean up. Yes, not that I don't have the willing has to be a jerk and make them clean up issues. I dont have an hour to dedicate to getting them to clean up a you know. I I need the house clean in fifteen minutes, but I have some advice: free internet. I'm now about that. That's the thing you are asking about the questions asked can so I'm so lucky. My job is so much fun. I get to go travel around and speak at a lot of schools where I talked to the kids during the day and then I talked to the teachers and do professional developed in the afternoon, and then I talked to the parents in the evening. So when I talk kids. I get to do a couple of really cool things. First of all, I give them all my email, my personal email and I say look I got three hours before I talk to your parents, so email me what you want me to tell them and the emails I get are bankers and amazing. I love them, but the thing here
King about is one of the things I do when I'm talking to a bunch of students, as I have them all closed their eyes. Why have all the adults in the room first close their eyes, and I asked the kids raise their hands number one if they're getting paid for grades, and that tends to be somewhere between fifteen and twenty percent. Although you know there are a couple schools here and there were like seventy percent. Like me, a fluent communities, the other schools in your neighborhood as a matter of fact, algerian and health- and really ethnic communities. It sometimes is up to seventy percent and the number two who get stuff for their great like a new phone or new computer. Whatever you know you get a car. If you stay on, you know the honour all the whole time your high school somewhere between twenty and twenty five percent is the average there, and then I ask the kids to close their eyes to because they don't want anyone to be embarrassed. By having to answer this question in the affirmative, and I ask them really really hard about this before you raise your hand, but if you need raise your hand, feel free rein,
your hand. If you really truly believe that your parents love you more when you get high grades and less when you get love rings and the average I've done this with tens of thousands of students, the average and middle school is around eighty percent and the average in high school somewhere between eighty five and ninety percent, which is not surprising because there's research out of Harvard making caring common project that would back up similar results and the other thing that's really interesting is one. I asked them that question. You know years. Here's my email address. You know email me what you want me to tell your parents the thing they want. to tell their parents by far the most Various innovations is, please tell my parents I am not my sister. I am not me. brother, I
you when you were my age. I am not this hypothetical, perfect kid. You think your raising, I m me and I don't feel scene or known or heard or loved for myself. So it's not really surprising. When I get those kinds of numbers- and you know the kids reiterate that to me when they hang out and talk to me afterwards as well, so that comes back to that love, the kid you not kid! You wish you had, because it makes an incredible difference, because kids know when you see and hear and know about the things that are important to them as opposed to what we think they should be. Thinking is important. I want to know something kind of provocative, which is was what year just seen, and I think what I would love to see happen is it is it potentially.
Her name shattering, because the notion that if you tell your kids, stand on a role for the whole year and they'll get a car in a lot of ways makes a ton of sense logically cause that's, ultimately what you will do in life. You will go to some job that you probably don't want to execute and you'll do that, so you can on a home and it feels like its per The glee conditioning them to suck it up and get the job done so that they can have this life, but I do more and more people are questioning what define success in what defines fulfilment that may b as an entire society, were evolving away from that notion and were starting to value the emotional component of life in the fulfilment component, and is it a comprehensive thing we need to look at lifelong? You know. it's funny. You say, and this is how it works. You know I write this book so in the end, some will pay me some money or I you know, do this thing. That, someone will give me a paycheck and that's how life works right. One of the interesting thing, though,
we have forty years almost fifty years of really solid research and the rest search. We have is also this stuff club, Med Data she's when we actually take the research and say wait. A second. Is this quality research? Oh yes, it is look. It's quality research, fifty years of really research, showing unequivocally that extrinsic motivators, whether their positive or negative, in the positive things like grades point scores money for grades, things like that or love in exchange for performance, which is what I was talking about before, or the negative stuff like in a sweetie appeal, keep a bee? Minors are better you're, gonna, be grounded or I'm just going to serve value on your phone and make sure you get to where you're supposed to be at the right time or I'm going to, and you ll find out about this soon enough tax, which is portals if your kids are in many go systems. I right now could get on my computer log on and find out every grade. My kit has gotten for
entire school year, and I can do that twenty four seven until I want I could hit refresh on that programme and get up today up to the minute. You know where my kid is. From a great perspective, all of those things are called extrinsic motivators that lasting. I talked about his surveillance and all of those things positive or negative, undermine our motivation, just kids, motivation, but everyone's motivation and the problem is as Dan, has pointed out as Edward DC in his book. Why we do what we do the science of self motivation, as people have pointed out, that, yes, this is how our economy runs. But when you look at people that really do their jobs well and are really in their jobs like super? Invest, but the reason my husband is in the basement right now and about to head off to the hospital and put on you know a head to toe personal protective equipment is not because he's
be getting a pay jackets because he loves what he does and his intrinsically motivated to do it. So I would be a writer whether I was getting paid or not. My husband, I hope, would continue to do what he's doing whether he gets it or not, and once we understand that some of the things we do to motivate kids like the grades, the point scores or paying them for their grades. Points course is the under their motivation. It might change. The way we think about carrots and sticks, and I don't the gravel gonna get rid of it. I mean this is where we are right now. In such a short term bonuses and things like that, but It undermines their motivation, so once we understand that we can We can maybe feed into their intrinsic motivational little that better. Well, you pointed out in your talk,
de training and not having to wear a deeper, is actually part of the motivation so like a little reward in and of itself? So, if you can help, kids find the personal reward to separate from the sticker, because if you think about what a stick your chair does like, if you give kid stickers for good your becomes habitual and that if they're doing it in your presence there. Actually I just know like in a we have a thing which is like you just
patterns than you hope that, in your absence, they just continue out of habit. Yeah first are sad, we're not the same rooms. I can't fist bump you
up there with Doktor Lee I'd be just totally thrilled but yeah. It's tough right now for kids stage there we are supported by
the duration question you bring up- is really good because there is a fantastic book called how to be a happier parent with
extrinsic motivators. I think it's a combination of the two that are gonna be our sweet spot, which is, if you can start a kid doing something the right way.
on the house, but then you let them have some control over the details of how to get there. One of the things whenever I get interviewed about you know parenting stuff. I get
But how about we talk to your professor first and see what went wrong, and so she went with me to his office. We talked about it. I made like for really vs glaring mistakes and he's like so yeah. Don't do that next time and you'll be totally call- and I I learned from that experience, but the problem is more and more when I'm seeing from my own students, especially, is this just isn't for me the classic. Is I'm just not enough person right? I'll. Send you get a certain place. It starts to get harder cost. Ps. Math gets hard for everyone. Eventually, every single
today at school. Yet is this like magic growth mindset, Carol, Dweck word for yeah stuff gets hard for people and that's how we learn perfect time for you to talk about
that book they talk about desirable difficulties which are one of the most powerful teaching tools I have and backing up for just a second theirs. things that are difficult for them, and she did this cool experiment where she had parents and kids go in.
aren't in or controlling, but in a directive will utilise eraser. Let's use a nicer were so then then she took the parents out of the room. She want to see how the kids would handle it by themselves and the kids of the autonomy, supportive parents, almost all of them, completed this difficult task, whereas almost none of the kids of the really directive or controlling parents were able to complete the task on their own because they got frustrated and gave up.
when something is a little more difficult for you to figure out when you have to work a little harder to figure it out. That kind of good pleasure
how do we help kids stick with things long enough to benefit from the magic of learning it that way, and could you quantify that at all for us like what is the ideal amount of frustration like you, don't want your kid in their room for two and one slash two hours trying to figure something out. Do you, or as long as they're, engage let him at at or what's a ballpark
you a little bit more of learning from those desirable difficulties because you're helping them parse through the stuff, that's more difficult for them and not
and resolve like you brought me, I'm so happy you know that stuff. Then they don't really believe us, but if we're focusing more on the process and a little bit less on that and product than they really will believe us. The other cool thing about it is that for kids, who are really struggling with anxiety and perfection issues pulling away a little bit from the end product and focusing more on the process, can diffuse some of that anxiety and help them understand that not all stress is bad. Some of it is really productive, like the stress I have of the edits being do for my next book by the end of this week is really
the challenge an opportunity for you to demonstrate the thing, your great at its view, something new that you ve never tried before, especially, for example, that the cool thing about you is that you grew up with
He teaches them. I am modeling for them that I want to see the same thing in them and that their in a safe place to do that wine growing
I'll tell you. My superpower is matching kids with books, so I'm happy to help with that. In fact, I have some books sitting right here have one for you, that's what I think is gonna, be a perfect fit all bigger, I can say. There's your magic wand. I can wave to make your kids value Ray
thing that we know is obviously like. Oh, my gosh graphic novels in a diver. What became books are those Jeff, Kenny's, wonderful bucks, you have cartoon enough and if a kid is is seeing himself or herself or wherever in that character and, frankly, the character in dire. That would be. Kid is a great kid to identify with, because he's constantly working through these insecurities in this perceived hurdles in all this other staff, and so anyway I made her go.
me, and I have to somehow you know, make my way through. But it's this thing that is, joy, fallen, wonderful and if Bokassa gave you that thing. her, the authors name, the so fact Jack. I guess
My slips my mind at the moment, but there's a wonderful book call people and it's about the principal breed, and this kid was in chanted with this book and so finding away in to help kids love reading means. We have to know the kid yeah just say here take this book, but I do wonder because you said you know he's not your bag and then deck said will of course not he's massage monistic. So You know we burn the books Monica we outlaw them and burn them. This is really personal for me right now, because I happen to be gone through this. I have a kid who believe some stuff that I don't necessarily believe and is loves, loves number one loves to pay
My buttons about it for number. Two loves to learn about it, and so for me, up to you, know and counter that. So how do I, as apparent and as a teacher to kids, who are struggling with substance abuse? What how do I know what I can control in what I can't control and all that stuff. So anyway, one of my kids is completely off his rocker fascinated by whose nature everything from you know. He loves to watch Rogan talk. He read my copy
for me to a number one is to alienate myself and to exclude myself from that conversation is to say we will not talk about that or you will not read about that or no, you cannot watch. You know hamiltons for
shutting down. Those conversations is the fastest way to shut down the communication with our kids about the things that they may find important. ideas, because he was the ultimate misfit and and excommunicated member of our society- and he said
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more thing. I'm modeling I just want. I want you to talk about it. I thought it was brilliant. Is you know, kids, you have to use them.
They know we're not perfect. This is not going to come as, like any surprise, we're not like opening them Pandora's box by letting them know that we're not perfect, but again it comes back to modeling. The very thing you know if we want our kids to learn how to take information about their failures and use that information happened. I've been doing too much. My kids and I've been rendering my kids incompetent, and so how do I fix that and whether you stagnating you, I think, you're capable of doing more than I gave you credit for, and I learned this stuff and I want to do better and so for older kids. It can work great because your modeling for them
right for me. So I went home and I did some more research and I realized I totally mess that up and I gave you the wrong information. So let me explain how I you know or interesting
French and then you get your ass back and it's like a sixty eight like oh, my gosh. I thought I knew everything. That's a failure of medication right is it that around the age so from?
I did do better next time how somehow disorganized human being I've ever seen in my life, and he was just learning how to remember stuff to take to school and he forgot his mouth.
until you come up with a strategy that will allow you to help. Remember your homework next time and this
there's a book over there by someone who ve realized that she was getting more and more kids referred out for occupational therapy, because all they ever did was run around I'm perfectly flat services with no obstacles, and they didn't have a good propria section and good cause
formative assessment is what works for learning summoned having cumulative assessment on help. Teacher is sort of nowhere. Kids are at one moment and that's even if those tests work well, which often they don't so yeah, there's all kinds of problems with that and there's lots to be like Finland and adopt everything about there, done, because we just we have a much more
I believe now map the waiter number sites is more like so your kids as they're, getting into like addition, you're gonna, start seeing them doing things like instead of adding
kids on their mouth acts as one of the fastest ways to create math anxiety and tell me everything I'll, show you how great I am. You know: there's an amazing revision. Is history episode, Malcolm Gladwell, spot it s about that? The owl sat in what are you really measuring and the time component? And what on earth is it accomplished? And then, all of this data sane right that
There is euro correlation between outset scores and achievement within law, the exact pretty funny. Aren't you wanna talk really quickly about you mentioned history and dates, and things like that. I think the problem with saying oh, but I can just google it, which is absolutely true. The problem is that, then you don't create a larger framework, one
One of them is the big big ease in childhood. Are academic failure, social us
How do you think that worries me
all who are not entirely true, the other people that love them feel very defensive of them. Yet people tweet me all the time like even of a vague. You say the word bit born. I don't mention that there are great family dogs year. Perpetuating this thing, I'm afraid of people. I don't want to tell people rise while be hiking in someone's got an awful leash hundred pound pit bullet balls and I'm fuckin scare saw I can tell you is that I now I now people feel very protective of her pet balls and I think it's because a lot of them have been put down, because people are scared. They breed em for fighting and then the rings get broken up and then they flood the view, no power,