Laura Beil is a journalist and podcast host. Laura sits down with the Armchair Expert on this Thanksgiving day episode to talk about having to work on your feet as a journalist, her specific draw to the medical field and how she stumbled into podcasting. Dax theorizes on Laura’s Dr. Death podcast and Laura claims a story is never done, it is only due. The two talk about her new podcast, Bad Batch, that focuses on the stem cell industry, they eat Taco Bell together and Monica and Dax thank Laura for serving the best podcast of 2018.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Be the existing meetings. Gimme wellgood armed your expert experts on expert, so listen, we have a great gray Guess today, Laura Beale, we ve talked about doktor death on here budgets. Definitely our favorite podcast last year, incredibly GAD and when we want a pod casts a word. We promptly said that they should have one yea right, so we have Laura Beale, the journalist behind doktor death she's, a journalist with more than twenty years of experience in often science, writing and she has a new podcast called bad. Bad is also dang delicious, a stay she's awesome. You know we not regularly get too to talk with a real hound dog journal yeah. It's true. I was really cool. Alas, now as far as Thanksgiving can't tell me, while I just want to give thanks give thanks for my family yeah,
without them? I just don't know what joy exists in my life. I am grateful for this pod guess most I'm grateful that I'm healthy yeah complain about certain things are threatened everything, but that's bullshit. That's nothing near! That's trail, big fuckin warp. Would you grateful, for? I am grateful. For I am grateful that we're gonna get a new charter the calendar soon yeah look forward. That'll bigger, I'm of all those things, our friendship circle berry, that's my number one other my family community yeah. I everywhere we go outside it, doesnt matter where we go it just all about who you're with and we are with them. Was fun people and I am filled with so much joy and love because all them mammie dear yeah, very grateful for you angry with me. one less grateful for why we want but very grateful lobby, while our rob woody rightful form hunger for you guys
Calvin Natalie Calvin Careless family boys got a real cute little Bronco He does Calvin Coolidge Kelvin Coolidge a positive man in history with a name it after him, while the record, while the Irish are, you sure, can retroactively be named after her, is happy Thanksgiving about everyone's having a wonderful time with their family, and a lot of we are so ported by MRS Feel, my good name as mom. Article loves, could Monica loves cookies. Sigh with my loves boys, and if you ever look at my face and that, while I wish that was on a cookie will, then you are in la cause. Yes is fields is making the coolest armchair expert cookies. We have a big tits
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morning, go to MRS fields, dot, com and then a promo code armchair. Remember: twenty per cent of every purchase of an armchair expert ten of cookies goes right, over the toys for tat, but only when you use promo Code ARM chair MRS Fields, dotcom promo code, armchair, let's see how much we can raise he's not well. We that is really unique experience. We ve interviewed so many people we have yet to have sit down and have some taco bell with some. We had our first. I feel so honoured good. This is done endorsement of talk about it's, not it's just the fact that you came in now why we love it just brought over a sack, a talk about her and I offered you talk of Supreme in. I was delighted that you took it. You know I have not had
Hunkerville in some time, yes, that's what happened ass to and you know I've never woken up and said TAT at some time Even when hung over the Euro egg upon over, there have been hangover anywhere you have now can I have been. I have read that might ever really ok mom fifteen year sober, so I had a decade of horrendous hangovers, so this would be a judge freeze on. If you had had some hang I've had many Mademoiselle Workin on lorry. Are you alright finally from taxes. Yes, with an asteroid, I was actually born here in LOS Angeles. Oh really, my dad was, in graduate school here. Would you really oh he's a phd physicist? No show- and so he was working out Here-
when I was born. But then, when I was about six weeks old, like super tiny, my parents moved back for more grudges, go for my dad Olga, but then eventual You know again with his schooling. I lived a little bit in Germany because he went to the MAX Bank Institute again, we are falling her round and then we were back in taxes, but Texas is where a families from its home max point is. Was your famous resist resembling nag ass? We sent my dont know. I believe the max thanks should, I believe, as part of your Highness Gutenberg University. I know you're gonna fact, checker. I went off back packet yeah than already sounded, really complicated, impressive and throwing up an imprudent burned there. So, from the time I was in about second grade, we move from Houston to this small town and EAST Texas, called Marshall. We are Marshall, no different Marshall,
where's the Euro X there so and so from the time that I was probably second grade on. I grew up in this small town, and so that's what I consider home as Marshall Texas was dead. Morgan in them refinement at that point. My dad is actually my hero and until he passed away we were super close. So My dad was working at amino lucrative job in Houston, but my parents were also kind of on the side sort of Methodist Social Justice do gooders so they were involved with an organization this organisation in Houston, through that connection, my dad met a man who would become the president of Widely College in Marshall, which is a h BC. You in Marshall Poker.
He became president a widely and he invited my dad to come up and be part of the faculty there at the small college. My dad saw this as an opportunity to do good and teach and were very status. Wiser, climbing the status ladder- this is a step down. Yes, yes, well in money. Yes, indeed say that teaching is an elevator the profession. I think T2 data about them within that you're probably trying to go to first, you t or right, it would be a hierarchy right. Maybe you'd want to be back at you see a lawyer who now yes, so he moved there because he wanted to they wanted good, and so we move to marshal how big of a town, as is so at that time it probably had eighteen thousand. ok! So that's pretty good allies in autumn, but still there were it not one, but two dairy queen.
That says along. We had dairy queen number one and dairy queen number two new, which was wit. What college you I'm going to? I went to Texas Aunt em and I was gonna, be a doctor, a right, and so I went there for pre mad and my senior year. I applied to medical school, and I took the M cat and the way that medical school admissions work at that time. I dunno might still be the same thing that's kind of rolling admission like it. We know between the first acceptances go out, in January, and so I didn't get in the first round. Side thought: okay well What am I gonna do now and I have always loved writing, and so I thought I could turn journalism. So I applied to go to Youtube, Austin and study journalism. And the short story is, then: I ended up getting into medical, school and Journalism school
really so I did get in later and then I had to pick you know, and I was late, so it already kind of had time to think about going into journalism and and journalism at that point to seem like more fun and interesting, because I realized to this day like I have the best job in the world, because I still love medicine still love science, I'm still around it all the time, but I can just pick like that. Little part of it that I really want to learn about instantly learning something new and how many jobs do you have where you can do learn something new all the time. Oh yeah with it. If dad was hero and dad was a scientist. Did you feel like were letting him down by choosing the journalism path and said Oh now now I remember when the first byline than I ever had was not this student newspaper, the daily Texan, which is still around and it's a great student newspaper. So I got a job.
The student newspaper, and I had my first by line there, I called him ass a dad. story like in their paper. Nor did it say by Laura, be less. It is dead. Had a byline and he was just as They re about it. So you graduated from new t. Love, often we think about ways from yes. I love us in its the best placed. It is the last point I my daughter's there. Now, as I do, I look furred or any flimsy excuse to come to us in the year the love, the city, so I was so live there in Austin, I went to grad school that journalism degree and then I never wanted to do anything but science, medical journalism, like from the outset that the subject I loved subject, I still love. I didn't think I could do that right away. I thought I have to a work for some small paper. You know at that time the entry into journalism was you go to paper. You work night cops
a thorough came up. Do that, but I got really lucky cause. The very first time I had was at a paper and tree Port Louisiana. There was still on afternoon paper then, which they don't even exist in our eyes, and I got to cover medicine like right away. I did a whole series on sort of diseases of the poor young poverty. You get different illnesses. For reasons than because of inequities in care, and so now I was able to cover a lot there and I'm very grateful and one on things that is especially good, that feeling of working for an afternoon papers. So if you dont know, if you're working for paper that's coming out that same day, you have to have your story, dawn by eleven o clock in the morning may mean real, so that sense of really having to think on your feet. Every daily journalists have has this skill and,
have to learn it, but you really learn it at an afternoon paper like you go to a press conference in the morning and you would walk over to a pay phone and dictate story into the phone so Those kind of experiences were really great. Does it get you good at home in on what the actual take is exactly ia and how to organise yourself quickly? I think, to this day I dont do the daily journalism now, but to this day I mean that's a helpful skill at its not unique. To me, I mean our daily journalist can do that. It's not like it's magic. I mean right if you're in daily journalism me do this and you know, like hath, think quickly had a right quickly, but especially at a paper where the devil so that tight. We and I remember when I then I went to regular paper. I went about rules than those of the else morning news in there I had till five o clock to do this dream, like
How much time I would. I do imagine that being in that Creative box, with those constraints have some upside one of them? Being procrastination even on the table now like ie, is don't you sometimes it's even harder when you have time or italian and- and occasionally, if I give her talk at, I, like it journalism class or something to high school students and may raise your hands. They will what if your deadline comes and you're not finished, that train is leaving the station like you are done. Yes, I have. I can tell you, I have never turned in a story because it was finished I now turn in a story because its due rise, trusting, that's fascinating. and then within that is there some collateral it's like you feel like oh shit, I gotta guns how much it is torture sometimes to go back and read your old stuff, and I too have like perfectionists tendencies as in
edit. I can tell you that podcast producers can tell you I'll obsess over details and small stuff and and it's hard to go, but it's a wonderful life because life? so often just about yeah. I did what I could do announced time just keep it move, and I mean it general good life pattern to be an ear here- should be self critical in everything, but also that the train, as you say, is flying down. The drugs announced that so yeah. It is sort of liberating and also obsess everything so much that some part of me is hard to let it go in part of me, as by the time it's done. I am so sick of it. I'm ready to be hindered combination. so so your entry for and then you eventually go to Dallas to the Dell is light so that paper went out of business. Archive tat is my first lay off and journalism and print journalism
then I have a job right. So I went to batteries and I went to the advocate and I stayed therefore not that long. It was less than a year, and then I got a call from the Dallas more news which had always been my dream. Job would have gone from Texas. I grew up in Texas, the Dallas morning. News was, in my mind, a great flagship paper in Texas and I and they had at that time, a weekly science section than was amazing. It was back when papers had money and they could produce this stand alone. Science section, which was really really great, and I wanted to work for that and for there was a kind of a legend editor of that section. Thomson freed who was in on. I wanted to work for him and I wanted to learn, and so he called me and said: would you like to apply for this job and, of course, the gas? So so, then I went to the dolls my knees and that's where I spent like the most of my print couriers puppy there about fifteen years in covering all these different, a call issues did it lends itself to Hypochondria
engineer! Monica having this job ass, you just every day would be conventionality airs disease. I think there's a name for it like medical students syndrome or something I could be wrong about that we you thank, you have ever breathing everything you read about the symptoms of you have? No. I would that's when I resent be me over no my mother in law, when we twelve years ago, when we met she's very concerned about my wife being on the I'll because she has a nurse would see. Women come in was strokes and I'm like your definitely seen that there is no question about that. I agree or seen, but I, you think it's inordinately high in your life. If you just look at the numbers, I'd be much more worried, she's going to die in a car accident, it's just. She has a fifteen thousand chance of dying, because you re happened to see this autumn. I could see what it feels like its ever present do realize all the ways that the body can go
when you write about it, and so I sort of ten to really marvel at the human body like when you know everything that can go wrong some days, I'm amazed at so many people live for so long rights. Without anything happened, to them when you see like oh, this could happen in this. Oh yah euro. our vulnerability. Yes, he exaggerate, you get a parasite, you can get an auto immune. You could get a tomb or you could get now, there's a trillion villages, and yet in June a third and end. The body has an amazing ability to repair itself, and you realize this when you realise things that can go wrong and you realize how the body is capable of preparing itself as well. So I don't have that better. Think I'm in this business because I do love medicine. I do love the subject and I do love
learning about things that happen. Yeah, it's endlessly miraculous, like even as you understand it, more and more just kind of more and more impressive, with what's happening on atomic level in our bodies. so. How long were you at the Dallas? I was there for about fifteen years, and then the newspaper industry really started having problems, and so I left in about two thousand, six or two thousand seven. I can't remember now, and it's been more than ten years- and the paper was downsizing and I took a bio. I quit an idea for a number of reasons. One is it's just hard. They had a place where you never know when the next round of lay offs is gonna, be yes, you see trend on me graph. You know exactly where this is going and just how long before and its hired, you have like one of the key components of legal fulfilling jobs like some kind of optimism, our hope that things are going to grow and get better and bigger, and all these
things and to know its that's. Not the trajectory of airy sword of Damocles is gonna fall at any man. I was just so that's part of it and part of it wise and also my kids ah so familiar to to a girl, one girl and boy? Ok, I didn't want to stop working, but I wanted to be more present more them and I was lucky and that I thought I could do that and still make a living so I started working from home as a freelance journalists were you largely getting put in newspapers are met. genes are both or it was magazines. So when I quit, I had zero magazine contacts like now Right- and I didn't know that science right her editor at the New York Times, so I at a story that I wanted to do, and so I sent a message to the person you at the New York
and like great, you know it's a story. I did the story and then it ended up being on the front page of the New York Times very first freelance story right out of the way and that's a great way to kind of launch a freelance. What was it on? It was on abstinence educate. oh yeah yeah, that's the story was looking at. What is the evidence, because at that time, really having a day like if we just teach kids does now this say now and you know that's works so well things. We know one thing about changes, they always say now: oh yeah, and the only reason that they're having sex is because no one has ever told them not does work. There were programs out there for absence education, and so I was lucky and that I had gotten a fellowship from the Kaiser Foundation to really look into this. I was able to spend a long time really looking at the evidence from what is a long time I spent
probably eight or nine months when doing during tat gas. I was up great programme through the Kaiser Family Foundation, so this was a programme that they used to have for journalists. You know too, were they give you a fellowship to really look and to some subject that you really wanted to take a deep dive into an I wanted to, because these programmes are springing up all over Texas and I wrote this story is on the front page to New York Times, which was a great springboard and eventually over the years I built, contacts in the magazine, world really Wiggers cliffhanger only. What was that? closure. Oh, I know yeah yeah well, teen pregnancy is a very complex subject. Not a simple reason and there's not a simple solution, then the problem with abstinence education is. It presents a simple solution to a complex the problem and
There are all kinds of reasons that teenagers are having sex and it will be different for each one, and so you can't do some kind of blanket programme and expect to do anything about the problems. Not does not gonna be a magic bullet. While one thing you do what is the birth control pill works, pretty good and prevent our friends. Sex education also helps because, if you dont provide teenagers with accurate information, who are they gonna turn you're gonna turn to each other. Guy example, and their friends are probably just as misinformed as they are you. So if you provide accurate information to kids, the adults need to do it and, ultimately you know it should come from the parents. It should come from the parents
third in a mortified to tuck amino, not more either mortified be there's all kinds of different socio economic issues where some people aren't around some people have three jobs. Some people are single parents raising for kids, there's a myriad of reasons why that doesn't get communicated exactly so, kids need some kind of source of any new information right. It's a very complicated problem right, a very complicated problem, but it's not that they don't know that they could get pregnant if they have heard. Yes, we are part of it. May get that part, although
then that there's all time remember when I was a kid, it's like all, a girl can't get pregnant the first time a girl can get pregnant during a period when she can't get right. You know exactly what you can get pregnant if you, if you're nursing, there's still all these weird kind of urban legend, defend that fine thing. I think that sex education does is it. It gives you we'll science based information and their good programs out there for kids. The other thing about it is the psychology that you have to address like is it a need for affection? Why some kids? They want approval visitors, status thing, there's the others. There is alive, reason at even some things you might not think of like there's one programme remember looking into it and what they did is try to focus kids on long term, thinking on
looking about, I'm gonna go to college. I'm gonna have a future or I'm gonna, get this job and thinking ahead and thinking about their futures, because one of the other contributors for a lot of kids is you just don't think past next Saturday night, and so, if you can see yourself or Now, maybe you want a baby for something to love them and love. You in there are all kinds of reasons and it's very, very complicated and I dont presume to know all the factors about it. I just know that you can have a simple solution: merye. That was my ok. So then you you were based on that then became successful in the magazine role and it's gonna be
a staff. Writer any magazine enabling for a while, I was at a regular contributor to men's health magazine her. They were great in it. They were one of the few health magazines which would really take a deep dive into a lot of issues. I can do a story that in a really long and really went into a lot of controversial and complex issues, and I I loved that due care one way or another that you had baby lopped off half of the population in there. he's going always be male centric, now the peasants and important in our audience. Yet I was still writing for the women's magazine. All that I can do there was a great Editor, I work for at the time Peter more and would allow me to just do these subjects that were important men, but but a lot. These subjects are important
two women tutors you back at the humor right, like robotic surgery, ended a big story on robotic surgery and how it was taking off its taking off for all kinds of surgeries and yet the evidence that it's better for a lot procedures is not there. It's not greatest more expensive, it's kind of cool, you know it gun is there, but it's for a lot of these surgeries, there's not the evidence that it's better and yet it's being adopted all over the place or the generally, like my group procedures. Yes, they are but a better when it smaller verses, bigger, so even in a regular surgeries can be small incision you dont have to have a mean. That was the selling point is that you could get to be no places in the body where you wouldn't normally do, and that was the selling point. This is becoming a common part of medicine without the evidence that it's better and it interests me because in others
much in medicine that we do that's more expensive, but is not necessarily better rights and there's this perception like who, if its new and its expensive, it must be better. and that's is not the case I mean. Maybe maybe not no, doctor death. I want to hear how you came to be involved in it, but before you do, I want you to know where we're coming from we were nominated for this. I heart Radio award for podcast last year, best new podcast in our except in speech, which we want. I said this is not true. Doktor death was the best show us here by far- and this is an atrocity or other that you dare outside, saw that thank you for that loads. True, you're shows much better than I thought that was a very generous actors, my meant. It perfectly well executed
I mean the way you wrote that the story, the way you chose to. Let us know about this nascent when you gave us information. The structure that is is just perfect. My it's really a nice thing to say I need now it was not a solo project right. I did the reporting in there, but there was a team of people very well produce who made that happen. I cannot recommend that enough to people, It should stop right now. Listen to me! My name is: if you have it, though, we should give us a little. Synopsis of people have yet heard. So I say to people It is a story of a spinal cord surgeon who is both entirely incompetent and arranging added to this. The confluence of these two in another themselves the worst aspects surging could have an that's too, but it's also not really a story about Christopher dont. It's a story about the health
Their system. Well, is that it's in the night. Also, are you a story about american individuality and no, this notion of work harder, try, harder, and there are some things you can't work harder and try harder into an enough. The thing a wee wee movies have taught us right, keep when it enough and you'll get it right yeah? So the story starts with ones Audrey in Dallas that he did where a lady passed away, but she didn't survive the surgery, and so he basically only lasted at this hospital. Three days are three days worth of surgery. You might have been. There are weak, but so the story opens with one party Miller surgery. That's just everything is going wrong. Everything is going wrong and people are trying to it. say things are going wrong and that first episode is really hard to listen.
Here. You are landed. I know where, on the road we were when we put plight, hit, play my wife and I but there's a reason for starting now. It wasn't just to get your attention. It was you couldn't understand the story, unless you knew how body was, unless you understood from the Gatt, go that here making errors that surgeons never make. He was just a little bit bad. He was truly a horrible surgeon. unless you really understood that, then it was even more outrageous that he was passed from hospital. The hospital your eye and in part of the support for the obvious observation, is that everyone in the operating room is aware. Of his blunders, rights or the nurses are see day knows what's going on here.
and they're trying to speak up in this has an overlap with one of my favorite chapters in amalgam Gladwell, both the social, constructive, airplane, cockpit right at the co pilot soul. Job is to be looking for errors in the pilot, and then the pilots was to be looking for errors in the co pilot and process is how we make flight safe and they look at korean AIR, where they just crash. Like six. Some forty seven one after another and what they found was the culture in the cockpit for korean pilots was one the pilots very high status, the co pellets very low status when they would get to a city. The corpse was to draw the bath for the pilot serve him. His dinner, there's audio recording of the pilot slapping co pilot in the cabin. So any time something was going
wrong, and they have the audio tape. The cold pilots pointing out what's going wrong, but its very mitigated way because of the status dynamic in so they had to retrain all these pilots. They force them. They have basically american culture within a cockpit crane. Air pilots have to speak English. Now they can't get each other's foods when they land, and so I also was thinking this whole time. Oh there's that same things, happy and operating room is like you have these. oh pilots. Basically, the nurses and ya mean consider the power dynamic between the surgeon and the nurses. Why? Exactly? And I've heard from a lot of nurses since doktor death came out and it depends where it is I do want to be too. I don't make two big generalizations, but the surgeon is the one interred in it's hard for the nurse to say anything in some nurses, I've had email me say: I'd be fired if I said something, and so I think that's part of it, but also that's not the sole reason that he was allowed to continue operating. I mean there were systemic issues,
that's thought. That was the whole point of telling the story is to be a point out. You know at the end of that podcast. I hope it leaves you with a feeling of you know. If we couldn't stop, sky, yet neither one of the most obvious, worse surgeons, ever to practise lighted? How bad is the system, then somebody he's just a little bit bad when we get through, and I want the gratifying things I think from the feedback I've gotten is. I do think it's prompted not a soul searching and I've had more than one emails. I've gotten saying medical students are now required to listen To this end, I just to unite. I do hope that it has prompted a lot of questions stages. There we are supported by sea Beady M D, its thanksgiving, for many people. That means a day full of food family in football, but for those that have holiday shop
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gotta say for me: it has serious past every every one of them and passed already. John. I think doktor does the best of that ferocity. I've I've been. Why do you think that's what it is tat you know While I am an attic, so I'm so drawn to that guy's store, you know, I'm seeing a side of it, probably that most people can relate to which is. I did lots of stuff. I should have never done as an attic like. I carry around the shame that I understand the possibility of how you find yourself in a situation where all boy I was most have gone to bed last night night in it. But here I am now what? If I come to this the whole house The cards falls. I think I can do this, but you went during Neurosurgery. I wasn't doing neurosurgery, but I did others stuff. That was, you know shameful, irresponsible that I never heard anyone on. Thank God, but really by the look of the universe I did so. I was drawn up for that reason. The intimacy of an operation like that
six people huddled around this little area that there's almost a claustrophobia to it that I think triggered a lot of mirror neuron e type. You know you really feeling it and then, of course the person is not operating on your liver or your foot so that you can live without fucking with the most delicate, an important part of our whole being so the stakes are just supremely high. I gotta tell you: I had foot surgery a week after I listen to doktor death now that there is nothing life threatening was gonna happen in our brain room with my foot, but I was taught into the nurses beforehand and set them hey I'll, be out cold, be my voice. Like
Wake up. I want you to know how you please speak for me like. I said that in response to having heard this like fucking call it to throw red flag whatever I up, but there are instances where people were speaking up and I just want being listened to me. That's very true. One of the most profound moments of doktor death is you: have the records of how many surgeries during his residency. He was a hard of hearing in medical school and residency in Memphis, and then he did a fellowship after that. All of that happened in Memphis, so everyone in Memphis leaves behind a legal fortress that I could not at three o er. Yes, anybody supervisor that he had during his training. I was not able to talk to them right, so I use both, though not to say his professor, but you basically said he only sat in on a hundred and some other rat and amber right. That number came from the district attorney. Ok, so the district attorney also wanted to know how much training
he had ad and she had something that we don't have as journalists. She had subpoena power, so she's subpoenaed for records from every hospital where he said that he had operated and she only got back a hundred records from that now. One thing about that figure is we don't actually know how many surgeries he did so the possibility is that he did the wreck. But the number of surgeries that he was supposed to do and he was still bad brain or he didn't, and he was still bad and that he was led out of his residency. and they didn't know how bad he was, and they let him go Why they let him out- and they did know how bad he was, but none of those scenarios- none are targeted manner, comforting to your same the subpoena says, get a hundred surgeries or whatever and his labors, and am I lost a lot of surgeries hunters now now and then who, in the youth you guys spoke to a dean or somebody said no, the average number would be a couple thousand. Someone would do right,
the number was set was amply wanting times what that subpoenas suggested. He had died, yeah at another, remember what the numbers are, but it was. They were master now. Yes, it was only a fraction of what he offered at ration, but again like ok, so maybe he did more, but he still got to Dallas and could not write Riah And- and I find it hard to believe if the argument is well- he was a great surgeon when he left Memphis, then how did he get to Dallas and suddenly not no basic anatomy right? I dont think that could be his addiction as an attic still knew what I knew the economic aid. There is no point where I had forgotten what I know where I was unaware. I did know, Madam irritant, no, my tosses or all these things I learned in school, but it is hard to know
how much in the addiction stuff was a part of that equation, but he was apparently doing drugs in medical school right was sent to rehab when he was there suddenly start as little research company to his partners found him doing coke several times the area. So it also isn't true that he was fine and he was not doing it drugs. when he was in his training and then he got to Dallas and started doing that Britain. I know big changed no right now, so he operates on his body. They ve been friends for over many years, the buddy says he has this long standing football injury that needs a dry
same- he injures him severely in the operation. The body will never really say he did anything wrong. Right. He's is really hesitant to talk poorly of his friend. The buddy admits that they were up doing cocaine that night the night before the surgery. Well, he says that yes, but There is evidence of that. Actually wasn't trail, interesting, because here's my take on that, I believe the body and he were alike, hey, we want an endless your supply of oxy. All I got to do is open. You up do a couple things, so you back up and then we'll be good, will have this source of opiates for a year and a half, because why she is guilty of the reasons the buddy would never turn on him. I think it's with the buddy had a role in that thing. He was a part of some ploy by which he felt guilty. He kind of knew what he was getting into and it went
as it does go bad. When you have a stupid scheme, though the one law that theory archives that apparently he was our They riding bogus prescriptions like you didn't need that to do it, because one of his older friends today, its friends Memphis. Why interviewed in the Pied cast? I think this might have been in there were suddenly his friend gets a call from the pharmacy and says: oh your postscript. They're ready, and he says I didn't have any prescription and so he goes and he gets like a list of all these. Oh please listen Ben those, and I can't remember what it was. So if you wanted to write bogus prescriptions to get the drugs he didn't have to operate on his friend all come to. Do that and some not saying that's outside the Roma possibility understanding both through its devotees thinks of two junkies to me
what do you want a girlfriend said. The latter often said that I believe they hadn't gone to bed at five in the morning right. So she was with him the night before and she says it didn't happen and I am inclined to believe her, so I think they probably did plenty of coke and drugs or whatever, but I don't think they did it that night. I believe if what she said. So I think not that they didn't his linen drugs. I believe they did stay up all night and I think you're very thorough, drawn up the road or I can't see nothing like in those moments. I was never coming. Oh shit dwells here. We gotta go to the house while an and remember too so remember the very last surgery that he did, which was over a year later, the one where sewed up the sponge and the man. Yes, so
when he showed up to the surgery late in a cab. Worrying dirty genes, and in terrible, so I think, certainly in I'm not saying that he did every mercury. Sober men are saying that maybe that one on his friend know is your your bullshit meaner, good in general, do you find- I have, in our view, a lotta people why? My former colleagues at the Dallas morning, news said one thing that you always wanted in mind when you're doing an interview, as everyone is telling something for a reason just and it's usually not the reason you think it is so. Any story any journalists you have that in mind like. Why is this person telling me this thing? then worldwide. What's the reason- and the recent may not be bad riot reason may may be good at maybe
Honourable, I think every journalist keeps in mind like wisest person telling me that you, I think you gotta ask yourself so doctored outages, just phenomenon. Can Rock men are not yet what arrive. You'll start like it's one of the few podcast that you got a bench. It like a great drama tv Show- or it's like you just gotta here that I am also did, is addictive. Do you feel that when you were doing it for you on the right, it as well. No, when I was doing it, it's like a long project and ideals banana like a leg, you feel more alike well and especially with this new pod costs, which was a lot even a lot harder to put together. You have that feeling of, How can I get myself in an area such as mega for one second, because it shocked me to learn when we read in talk about that, you were approached by wondered to do the Doktor S story, so they had put out a pod casket dirty John. Yes, this and a dirty John Lister, who had actually at a time to
Christopher Dance, email them and said well get a load of this guy I understand, and so they started looking for. They looked up a little at the story in it. It got a lot of. Press around in the Dallas area, including DE magazine, had done a big cover story called doktor death, which is where the name come from a later. There was already articles about him at least intact. and they looked it up and that this would be really good as upon cast, and so they looking for a journalist in Dallas who could tell the story who knew something about the health care system and in Dallas, that's a pretty shortlist rotten, and so they contacted me to do the story. And of course I said we know
journalists are right and their local that that's fine. You know so I agreed to do it and I was under the impression when I signed off to do it. I had done one previous audio story for the PR programme, this american life, and when I done that there was another producer who is doing all the recording who had the headphones and the microphone and ninety sort of did when I normally do so. I was under the impression that that was gonna happen this time. So imagine my great terror. When a week later, I get an email that says: oh here's, the tracking number for your recording equipment, and that was the first time I realise that I was gonna, have to record and I had no idea how to do it- the US and that was quite intimidating. There was a lot of face: timing back and forth it with me holding up that air recorder like ok, system go here. There are still buttons on the record that I don't know what you are. I don't touch him. I just know it
to do also at that time, when you are contact, you were you a big consumer of podcast. Now, yes, you're, probably like none, even realising the weight of a serial killer six of consumer, and I had like a a mighty of it now not to the decree is so in some way did feel like. Why would I want to do this? This feels like a weird step sideways it did it did, but then I thought I should do something different. Journalism a long time and the idea of doing something different was was very appealing, yeah yeah, so I did it and I still don't entirely. I wouldn't call myself an expert recordings and doktor death or in bad bad to be here any cloistered audio, this not quite That's me, holding microphone. Didn't at a level of self consciousness, when you knew me he did at First year
it's more like there were things that I had done for years. I couldn't do like take notes poem, though, when you're print, journalist, you're taking notes, and even if you're recording on your phone or with a little digital recorder. You have that damage are still taking notes and the. Dear, that you would do an interview and not be able to take downstream. view when really quick, as I get interviewed on occasion, and they were and are also re notes in. My thought is what the fuck are they ready now it's on the recorder? Is it like more an idea base and something I just said less than what I just said that you already know what went on You can not for a prince story, I'm writing down. Like white. You said, oh you, all you know as much as I get yet. Why are you doing out of its being recorded cause? You can rely on you recording. What, if you have three were, well, maybe so that was hard because I'm your used to technology failures, every parent journalist has like their home. her story, the time that you thought you were recording in our view, and you didn't see, went some kind of
absolutely idea that you only had the recording was tear scary. So one of the scary things- and this is not going to be news- it anybody who does audio, but you can hear your headphones. You can hear the microphone. You can think that your recording, osier wives and the only way that you know that it is actually recording is there's the little number ticker the love. I'm still is going on the machine, and I would always worry that I wasn't recording when I thought I went, and so I would be talking to someone and our glass down there, quarter obsessively then, and I would have to say, not ignoring you. If you're telling me something and am looking down real quick, it's just that. I want to make sure that we are still going and I did have a couple of years that did stop either. I thought I was plugged into account our outlet that turned out not to be on batteries are not alive, but it's certainly happened, and so I was just uncomfortable about it. In that way. Recording I
worry not having experienced and audio. I worried that the microphone we'd be intrusive to people We know that they will be uncomfortable, but I didn't find that yes and my experience, this is fine, there's a camera pointing as now this other layer of protection goes back to me as the one words like it's hard overcome, so having not had a great idea of just how big podcast were and then to have worked on your first one while other than this american life, which is also enormous. Previously, You have been doktor death. I dont know how many times the thing was downloader, but I have to imagine it in the millions millions. I think it's about forty or fifty million
That's so often amazing, yeah and with the biggest television show on network tv is, let's say this: is us or something that's getting? Eleven million viewers? I mean it's, it's an incredible amount of people that have listened to it. Isn't it it is. I didn't anticipated when it when it came out. I was this hoping that somebody that I was directly related to would listen to, and I didn't expect it to be. The way doesn't have the first. morning that it came out. I got up and I get the kids after school, I'm going Come back and I bought up. Ok, I'm just gonna see like if it's in the top fifty hundred like somebody's listening to, and I log on to itunes- and I see its listed at number ah ha, and then I thought well. It's probably like some weird outlook:
Yes, like the because I've been looking at it are doing something with it that its messing up side delete all the history on my computer. I can't believe good NEWS have again and that with Erst inclination I had that. Somebody other than my family was gonna. Listen to it. Yeah! That's really incredible does it then get intimidating because you have a new one on which I listen to the first episode, which is great. I would imagine there be like a turn. Tino post pulp fiction words like your first album, is this mega hit and is there anxiety like my next one, has to happen? I would I would be overcome with anxiety and in fact my loving fifteen year old Son couple weeks ago decided to give me the list of all the second projects that had
really done badly like well. You know mom season, two minor, I think he's gonna be so there is- and I think that's why the second one one I didn't. We, and do another bad doktor story. Although I tons of emails. It was kind of depressing like, oh well, have you heard of this guy? You know I didn't want to do that. Same story. Why won't you do without assign you gonna make us more doktor? Does I were round me anything arsenal, Jack growing? Why? But why do it like? I want to do a story that has some sort of meaning and some sort of point two, and I feel like doktor death was an important story and it did point out very significant price
in the safety net, though another story would also point out the same things, and so it's fine to do a story, because it's a good story to tell their plenty of journalists who do a great dog at that. But for me personally, like I wanted to his story that like conveys an idea that would help people that they have this information. I mean that's, that's the point of telling Doktor Della minutes. It is, telling story, but at the end of it you are better for being more educated about, certainly in a we as journalists. Whether we try to do me when the main things you try to do his whole people accountable me home people accountable, and I felt like dunce- is in prison- he's been held accountable young, but there were a whole lot of people who were complicit in what occurred, and I did not think that they had been held animal? There are people who didn't do things that they should have done and the rat euros with announced, and there were here as yet Randy Kirby
Robert. I understand not hear him fighting on his free time to make sure that this gets. You know he's like spending a lot of time trend. right, the two of them and they were getting push back. I think from their colleagues like why're you and that's that's yet another systemic problem that you are to collate it in the doktor death. Is that, to the legal ramifications of a doctor suing an institution, the lost wages that a surgeon would have its millions and millions of dollars. so you can see how they are. Incentivize does not deal with it, which is in itself a big part of the problem. Right well and the way that probably I mean the bad bad is a completely different story. Yes, but there are in some way is even other different. There are a couple of ways that they're the same in one of the common themes is how money perverts the system- oh god, really good. Let me to set a bad bad batch is about.
stem cell replacement throughout the stem cell industry. The yes, and so there is a huge stem cell industry. I've put money in the cookie jar I'll. Have you always talk about the earlier and it's not approved it's not approved by the FDA. Its hugely people are paying tons of money for this because people are desperate they're in pain? They don't surgery and so the information is coming from the people trying to sell it to them run and people are spending their life savings. Oh, it's heartbreak interests in the first episode, the type of people in their borrowing money and all these things, implicit in them is likely this fundamental crossroads. People get I've had to parents die of medical staff or it's like you're, asking a normal person to value life over money, but yet the outcomes not certain, and then you feel like a terrible person that you would even be considering that, but often it's bullshit specially and on uncle
g and a life stuff. It's like it is bullshit. It's three more weeks for somebody and best case scenario in your asking someone to lose their high. Moreover, that is the moral implications. It's like so dance right and it's expensive. I mean on quality. I'm gonna get the figure wrong met, maybe Monica you can factor been theirs that there's a figure for basically a huge amount of money in cancer care is spent in the last month of life. Yet we this by the way this topic is come up. Monica has has looked it up in the past, because I was curious. What percentage of your lifetime medical expenditures happen in that last the life and insignificant. You know it's not proportion spitting on time, and so I think the similarity is that when you're desperate will spend a lot of money on a chance here and so the thing about stem cells. The reason I was drawn to this story is because
people are spending a lot of money and they are desperate and they're not informed right. Maybe they think it's FDA approved, maybe they know it but their everyday thousand things anything a doctor's doing to them is probably been FDA approve. Then I think this is a general assumption. People have when they go to a doctor right and they're, not getting the truth. sure, and so I wanted to tell a story that would give people a true picture of accurate information about where we are with stem cell therapy. The complicating factor is that there is a lot of promises, themselves, yes, there's legit promise in theirs legit research going on, and it's all become tangled other in the message you know people have heard about the promise of stem cells. They know that there's research going on, they know the potential and so tired for us as patients to untangle. All of that is best
Lee when you're getting the hard sell on a video online or you're, going to a seminar in a hotel room, whether where they're trying to say is that sounds great and testimonials from people's lives have been claimed rain and testing He are not data right in. Don't you, don't you think part of its sticking or its sell is rooted in something that pre dates, modern medicine or medicine at all, which is its the fountain of view. This is an old old story This is an old narrative. This is an old preoccupation of humans that there will be a fountain of you that would make a young again. Yes, so the concept seems logical. It sure babies have stem cells, the stem cells are new and they create this whole new being of hanging just get some of those active young. Stems they
I'm gonna infuse youth into my body. It's an old fairy tale that we now and were drawn team. Yes, those who knew all gas and that's how they sell it to you, and so I just wanted something out there. That would give people a true sense of where we are, and if you listen to this whole podcast and at the end of it you still want to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on stem cells. Then that's your prerogative pocketed to do what you want to do right, but at least to be informed, and though I wanted people to be informed after doktor death, I realized the size of the audience that something could reach, that an audio story like that could reach I wanted to tell a story. Another story they thought could help people and I thought, can inform people and empower people with the.
Formation and I realized after doktor death the reach that cause there's been great print reporting on the unapproved stem cell industry and they ve been some really good stories about it, but a pad Cassa thought could read a lot bigger audience and a lot different audience, and if I just had a narrative vehicle comfort story, stay for the emperor your name for their you're, looking for a great delivery device for your rage, and so when this incident happened in Texas with the bad stem cells, I thought he'll looking into what happened and why it happened, and what this says about the stem cell industry could really help. Alot of people lose the total impact of just the Texas clinic. There were only a handful of patients in Texas, but the bad batch of stem cells went nationwide. I dont think we're clear exactly how many p.
were infected because it turns out that there had been some incidents of infection before that that were kind of under the radar, some one of the extraordinary things that happen with the case in Texas, without giving too much way is there may have been here in that you know someone since happening, but nobody connected the dots but suddenly on this one day in September, you had three people from the same clinic in the same hospital on the same day, and that is what drew attention to the fact that that was a larger problem, and if that hadn't happened you, how do you think so many of these stories they get uncovered YA, had that been spaced out by you in three it's no one of connected the dots. Now, there's probably tons of things like that, and who knows how long it would have gone on. You know they all happened to read the same
column in their local newspaper la touting. The Vienna sounds rate. Is there we gotta be careful specially, like medical journalism, like I think about it, even when there has been a cup great podcast on crisper, its incredibly enticing exotic idea, editing genes and the future of that. But don't people have to be cautious when their reporting on the stuff to keep driving home? How far out that is, as we moved away from the print- I was on an into online journalism, which is driven by clicks. I feel like the headline has gotten more and more and more provocative or more and more promising, whether its overly optimistic, overly pessimistic like the grey area is not doesn't seems collectible, so I found a lot of times their sensational headline in the whenever you know. That's coming a lot attempts from people who don't do it all the time right but often to the person who wrote the stories doesn't load the headline,
Europe is also someone afford me somethin that ice or something my wife and I and I'll think I'll fuck. Are they pudding there? headline wouldn't say that and I go to the article in it is, is the normal article we cooperated in and in an interview in that's not even said inside the article. This. It was like in extrapolation that someone wrote this headline, Yet when I was working these, but you never write your own headline ride so yeah, that's troubling air! write your own headlines, and sometimes you can see him. I had a time sometimes down. Magazines is different as you'll see a galley and the headline in them in instances where all say hey to misleading I don't like that headline, and you don't have final say, but you have a lot of influence. Obviously stage arms. If you dare, we are supported by door down.
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One of the big dangers icy back to this kind of sensational medical journalism is the other well reported well done. Articles won't do that when I get most bothered by the single study stories. Like my study vines, this ended psych one study and it makes it sound like this is. This is great. This is a breakthrough and, and then there's this magical headline put on the top of it and those are the ones that really bother me and get people. I think a lot of false hope. As you know, the single study stories and right- and you know, science- happens by study after study and building evidence in peer review, and some studies find this in some studies,
the opposite and the New Sea like what's the compilation of the evidence, looks like that's how science have no doesn't happen with one rise study that determines everything right with the exception of some of these are but dimly logical studies that happen like in Denmark, where they actually have public records for everyone, yeah those are like and that when they have huge amounts of media they have like the three million people they see, which ones had vaccines which ones. Then it was the red Autism, others, no difference. That's over were done with that conversation and right, and the Scandinavians have great data light has because they do have this national retching. They can do these big studies. I think preposterous. We don't have that here. I know what were very worried about our privacy, but it can be done without you being even linked to a name. Just in all that should be no threat
computing power that is available nowadays. If all that data on all of us, you build a connect. All these dots yeah for a lot of things. I mean some studies you have to like do clinical trials and you can't ryan out, but that epidemiological studies arousing. Professor, and we get a lot of good information. Remember, there's all different kinds of studies. Yes out there and good science happens with different kinds of studies. Rights done, and so I think that's. The issue with stem cells is in I've been to these seminars. I went to several seminars dude, Miss POD cast and at some of em they would hand out the you know the quote scientific papers and there would be maybe two papers and in a one of them, is on animals and one of em involves twelve people right right, but it looks great yeah now give your most generous assessment of what stem cells could.
what they could be or what we know now for us, and I definitely yes, I ask for your most generous what they could be, so we can first look at the promise, ok and then will look at the real That's a good question. So the promise is that you could take these cells court blood or your bone marrow year. Adipose tissue, there's different kind, there's lots of different kinds of stem cells and they do different things in the body and soul. Idea is you could take these cells and you could use them to renew parts of your body that need renewing some of the worst forms of human disease happens because your you tissues die. They degenerate, you know and a big one is cartilage darling. So cart, ledge when you're young gear cartilage can repair itself pretty well. You know how many kids like
you know they true. No, whenever whatever they fell off their bike- and they can- you know- do if you had that same accident now, your body could not repair itself as much as your kids kid, but so the promise of stem cells as you could take these cells and you could give them and you could rejuvenate. He's tissues like with cartilage, which is one of the more probably when the most advertise, Just as you get in your near in your heparin, your rotate archive and you could give. The theory is that you give these cells and then you we grow your cartilage because their meal brand new cells in theory, but it hasn't born in out. I had it in my rest, I have sorry attic arthritis, I had endless wrists joint swelling and I thought and try everything out their side to something called p r p or they spin your blood and platelets and they nehru dense fire reinjecting in and when that happens.
It also puts stem cells in in my case, maybe I'm an anomaly. Nothing happened. I didn't feel any better. I tried it. Ok, I tried that that doesnt work ultimately about certain, but that was my experience with it so that to get example, because if those stem cells had been approved here, your doktor was able to say what it had. Data have been able to say. Well, ok, you know Dax. This has a whatever percent chance. Here's the track record of it, here's the kind,
patient that it works best in here is the best way to deliver it in a. We would know all of these things, rather than just our will, give it a shot right and that's: what's has not happened yet in stem cell, even when they are doing it felt like by the way I was at best thirty percent optimistic when it was hammers like this is so Willy nilly they have these terms as an organ of Bergen injected directly into my joy. I don't know that there is any science says those we're gonna stay right. There are not just get flushed writer. I could just feel that this was like. Why not try this quaint and unfortunately suit? I met for your respite for some of these terrible diseases. If you think there's a chance, it'll work
and you got nothin else. You will pay your life savings for this chance, but we don't know we're until we do the studies we don't know- and we don't even know like how safe it as like I've had the argument made to me well bad effects there rare, like we hardly hear about them. We hardly hear about them and that's true, but whose looking like we're not keeping track of it. Like I'm in a gas that yours stem cells, you are not part of some study nobody's looking at it, then you not going into data somewhere. If I was using my room, FIFA so we're not keeping track of its over. Not it yeah. The side effects have been rare from this, but were not looking either, and we do the studies to figure out
accused and at an end, and so you don't actually know the safety of it and one of the episode that came out this week. I talk to one stem cell expert, Sean Morrison, his former president of the big international stem cell research society He does a great job of laying this out like the halt. The medical literature is full of things that we thought they would work and until we did the studies, we didn't know and a great example of that is vitamin e for cancer prevention. vitamin e was thought to be as antioxidant, it's gonna prevent cancer and it just seemed like common sense right that it was going to work, and then we did study, and we did this giant study for thus it cancer and it turned out that not only did it not work, but the people who got the vitamin e, where a higher risk of prostate cancer. So until you do the studies there, you don't know so commands what loophole exists that you were not
bring a drug the market. Is it because it's entirely organic and it's not designed in a laboratory that it's not under the purview of the FDA? So there's a couple of the house when so stem cells that are coming from your own tissues like Did you have stem cells that were from umbilical or birth products or where they are your own bone marrow? I believe worth products. Ok, right, kinda, I dont even know a rumour them like I remember. Did they take a big bone marrow you'd would monitor. My blood would appear, be right and I'm the guy said, obeyed we just let us down, is we have these Many of these stem cells and they're, the ones you want there like you know something third night, I got right there from here and we have amended want. What's try monopoly absolutely, let's do whatever right. so let the differently pop so so I'll get to that. So the FDA ruled that if they come from your own body,
If you take your bone marrow themselves or stem cells from your fat, that's considered, what's called homologous use, so it still within your own body, and so you can let me so. Then you can move your own cells around me if someone wants to move their thigh bone to, therefore, but I don't know why we should stop that's kind of equivalent of Askin graft languages moving around salesmen, that's the loophole or libels. I ran into the, but we heard about this I'll get your house's phenomena have so right. But that is not a true. That's why it's not a drug ministers, myelin ratio, then there's these fourth products like you had come sometimes from cord blood, sometimes from amniotic tissue. These cells that are made during developments after babies born they take these cells, but that's a different loophole and, to be honest, that's a loophole.
I'm still not clear on, is how the means the vampire loophole like what is the wise that ok, they do so. In the last episode of the podcast I we had an opportunity to ask the guy at the FDA is in charge of it like. How is this not a drug, because that's not your own and that's taking something from somebody else from some unknown baby and putting it into your body. But what I said is how are you allowing this He said it's not the were allowing it it's that were playing Wakeham all right now, so industry has grown so much their under resourced, so they have to focus on those situations that are the most dangerous, so people who are getting
stem cells injected into their eyes are into their brains are unanimously, and so they ve had the tree ass. The that makes sense. This is kind of like what they do with like bath salt, the over the counter drug was that gas stations therein this arms race, with these chinese manufacturers that are making designer drugs at aren't schedule one or two drugs? The compound is living by the time, the FDA or that were whoever does that each year they crack a compound and make it a legal. They ve already added one more hydrogen molecule to it now there selling into something else, and they just really can't keep up. I think that's a lot of it. And the FDA has said to these stem cell manufacturers and distributors aid. They put out some guidance and said: ok, here's what the law is and they ve given people a certain period of time to come within compliance of the law and so dear radically. If you're still at a compliance by then then,
because I think a lot of these companies are just ignoring the regulations, should go back to your point about how this is being allowed? I'm not entirely convinced that it is. I just think that they're not coming down on it because they have to focus on the most dangerous aspects of at first, but do patients. No, that, like that's what it comes down to, he has informed, like our patients informed and do they know that this has not been tested, and that's why I wanted to tell this story. We ourselves have gotten stuck in this position a couple times. Words like we ve had a doctor on, say the doktor was a cardiac. I'll just or they were? They were a heart surgeon or their brain surgeon there? No one, we're doing that, but now they have some products and they have a theory on what's causing auto immune and other selling products in this is real, murky territory, where it's like. We have this relationship with doctors.
our society, where we know they take a hippocratic oath and they can't injure us, and so there's this builtin societal trust of them, and then it gets murky when they have products where they sell stuff. We found ourselves like not knowing ethically. This is it. Does this person have more authority or delay perceived a more authority even on this? Wasn't there feel that they are of medical Lee? You know trained. This is kind of a problem right that we face, so I think they do have responsibility now want to say that the doctor selling this I dont, believe that their universally scam, artists, Mcnair, are probably doktor selling in these products. They believe they actually work, rank they're, probably doctors soon. suspect that they don't work their part. You know, probably runs again there, probably those who know but golly. I can make a lot of money on and rowing and it's gonna hurt it. Second Ahern, there's the power, a placebo, see about my work and the thing about the placebo effect is the more expensive. The treatment is
the greater the placebo, really here that Ben studies on their own accept view perceives the dead treatment is expensive. The placebo effect is greater. Can I tell you that is entirely whilst willing to try stem cells are like? Oh Kobe Bryant goes to Germany and get stem cell research, so that guy must have access to all the best and so, if he's using like it all just rolls down hill, where I start buying into more because someone with all the means at their disposal is doing this than that must be the thing s an anti your point about and prevent therapy. So there's bought out there there's a lot out there that people are spending money on and if they want to do that, that's fine, I in their body their money. What makes stem cells different to me one is that you're not gonna, spend thousands and thousands of dollars and your life's savings on vitamins, These are hugely expensive,
right, so a lot of these unproven treatments. Yeah they're not proven they probably won't Are you and are not that expensive stem cells? People are taken lawns there. Their use, retirement money. This is money that people don't have your ass out that that's one thing and the other thing is, people are getting this for very serious things, they're paying for this to cure horrible diseases and that desperation is is really playing into it. That's what makes it different to me from other like another, unproven treatment. It's that it so expensive and people are so desperate for cures and, back to my dad, we start up my dad died a Parkinson's disease, and that's something, there is no cure for Parkinson's disease right and if you had a tall me, you know if I spent twenty thousand dollars on stem cells and it would be cured him yeah I mean you would be tempted to do.
That. You have so many telling you others and there's a really good chance. We have great luck with you know. People with Parkinson's could see if that was your chance, so that makes it Different from another kind of unproven therapies, some ice- Marion, though, where I was a little put off by how the system works was my father died of small scale carcinoma its everywhere right, and there was a point towards the very end mind you soon, as you get diagnosis Marcel, that's metastasize and is everywhere the windows litter three to six months. That's that there's no Matt! You know that this is known. None of them will even tell you, there's hope, which I appreciate ultimately Lee right towards the end of one of the unconscious comes is, as you know, is really bad brain cancer. I'd like to start radiation- and I said I Well, he's gonna die in a couple months, as it is a better than he die of some cancers
Other organ failing than his brain and he's like well be, I think, it's a little worse for that to be the organ that goes, and I was like no. This is stupid in my dead, wanted to and ultimately use his experience, and so I was like ok He did it. You know he was alive for another. Three weeks is very regrettable, my opinion and then three months later. I wanted sixty minutes and it talks about the many young colleges. Actually sell the treatment, and I was like oh my god that was fuckin scare. I alleys minimally. This person was heavily incentivize to sell this treatment. I feel like theirs. A barrier within medicine. That's not the case. The money distorts the system and not for Ray doktor every hospital, but it does distort the decision making process back to doktor death. He was a neurosurgeon. Do you think hospitals with,
been ready to take a chance on him, even with the red flags of hidden in a pediatrician, I mean it was the money. it will you like neurosurgeons, bring an alert of money and that's why these institutions were willing to take a chance on a neurosurgeon. Even if they suspected Your daddy, you shouldn't have been operating when you mix money and- and I'm not saying that we know we all need socialized medicine. We have chosen in this country to make our health care system A for profit business right and that's what we have you so so we have to be prepared. Ok, a medicine is a business and if we're going to treat it as a business, that means it's gonna make money, and that means their decisions that are gonna, be it based on money nor her, and so it has vanishes, has disadvantages and I'm not a health policy expert buying right, but wizard undermined or the disadvantages and stem cells,
make a lot of money and one thing that this podcast does that I was able to do which really had not been done before every one kind of suspects. It's a pretty lucrative business and you know it's pretty lucrative business. We wouldn't have this huge explosion of clinics and doctors offering it if it were not a profitable business, but I was really able to live exactly how much money is being made and I'm not gonna take an excellent, be older drivers and it'll give it away, but blue water mark up his warriors. Good margin, profit margin. Yes, one of the things that than the podcast right got is a sales training call company where their exactly talking about the amount of money and do this and you can sell these for this and the doctors can market. After this they love it, and so these numbers that I dont think people real
I think they think. Oh, I'm a cost, five thousand dollars a shot because its cutting edge in and so expensive is finite. Of umbilical, flew yeah, wow, while, while so bad bad shad ban on wandering again it's when again, but it's on any of the platform. All the platforms so Laura Beale Doktor death by former favour progress of all time. Thank you. Bad batch is out now and I can't wait to consume it, and I hope you do a thousand more of these
you're, so good at it in. I think you're also shining a light on something that will probably affect every single person on in this country. At some point, you will be in the medical system. You will be dealing with this elaborate system that few of us understand. So I think it's very helpful either where our patients at some point or someone we laugh is amazing, yeah. I think that's why doktor death was so astounding to people to realise this is a system we depend on per hour and protection and the protection of people who love Until this happens, all that was one other thing. That was one other thing really quick. We were all we are all the same: doktor death same time. We are talking about it, a lot at parties. We were trying to isolate. Why the betrayal So in what I my suggestion was that humans in general have a very hard time being vulnerable. It's it's very hard for us, it's hard for us in relationships. It's it's hard for us. As parents and children its view,
hard to be vulnerable in there. Are these people in our society that we surrender at the ultimate vulnerability to we say: go head, put us asleep and then make us better. It's the Ultimate display of reliability and trust. When that is broken. It is a little bit deeper. It's much deeper than just having been murdered. We, This is some. How much more told us does that they're gonna protect us, and then they doubt? Yes, that's does like a double betrayal under other than had any feel overwhelmed like with information like so one of the take away from doktor death might be well researchers surgeon before you did, but how do you do that you can buy
a new car and find out way more about that car. Then you can about your surgeon. So I think it's a little. I mean it's. The only advice I tell people see a researcher surging get a second opinion, but in some ways I recognise that are still not a girl. The option, because it's hard to tell you it's hard to tell knew all juicy every and yeah yeah Laura. Thank you so much for coming, and I hope we thank you again. I join it. And now my favorite show the back checked with my saw me bad men. beg me bound. Do Levant JAG City, whether backs are clean. Air Monica is ready. Oh could you please tell me how me a year, now do vat check city where the facts are clean and accidents, witty
oh I loved their emission from yet words o seven on in surrounding yet words with a y yeah word. I should a warmed up my voice, but we got through any who loveday happy things here, skew being be Thanksgiving. Thanks to you, you're the things even at the world has ever known everything's he held in you. I don't think people That is why this debate is the happy anniversary song from the Doll House. A movie many layers there is no official thanksgiving song is that there is not that I now have that's not races. do you think, there's some races thanksgivings on further believe her the ruby
A boy things are happening I was wondering this morning. You hurt me Clare and things out. I thought at what point do acknowledge. You. Have some kind of respiratory and shipping get some help, yeah. What percentage of my hacking do you think souci being what percentages like medically necessary must have some opinion. I asked you haven't thought back. Oh that's, nice of you, I'm sure it's a song of. It is oecd or habit the bad habit, not bad news for the listeners in my life we now know my hair longer light on crime and imagine so grows. That's fine gold, my grandparents, my mail, grandparents used to do that. Name, rumours kid listless person, my Papa Bob in the back bedroom Joe, screaming. Basically me ass wearing out of it
loud one Granby thing: don't you think it's more like that prominence of province are provenance. Word what He's is right there well province or one of his sentence. Coughing seems to be the province of Grandpas or providence domain. broad provenance. I wouldn't want that expert. I would not choose to put that they are but yeah you're here people may do it's. Not, I think Providence probably cause Providence is up. Area, an area as broad providence. What is province a province is also an area events of Canada. You know that's not, A province is like a state away, a principle
in a strain of division of certain countries are empires his providence, no Robin! Ok! Now what is Providence came Providence, the protective care of God or of nature as a spiritual power That's what it says or a sentence I live. out my life as Providence decrees. I was considered a duty to encourage providence. Oh I don't know, that's it. I don't know Rob enters preparation for the future. Good governance foresight also, but that's not what you're talking here, that if coffin is the provenance of Grandpa's, is that preparation for the future now you're trying to say either trouble it's like leave it to the Grandpa's. That's their area got it. That's grandpas territory, plans, throve yeah pack? I think it's! Ok that you do it. Thank you, but its hurting, you should go, the doktor, clearer lives to be hard on everything. In my lungs and stuff right,
headed. A dam is gradually throw causes to a lotta repair of cells, which then causes cancer. Oh my guy Yang anyone area of its having a repair, nonstop Patients are coming on to help now, I'm nervous about you, so I should go yeah I'd love to get bionic lungs, wow myself rinsing. I could be another days just jets down. the inside your lungs and the yellow capsule. The the that come up, your buyer yeah. It is everyone you wake up with baby fresh longs. Does not someone I mean I think most people would wake up. I feel like their lungs, are fresh mind that next year and I feel like I've rum, I've like somehow in hell do Saran wrap in its covering all the things that are supposed to be during our goal and Sylvia Basileus covered, oh yeah yeah. I'll, be all we love doktor deaths so summer, but she came all the way.
tea house. You are welcome to the yeah me really did she had up. There was something about her. The reminded me of Bernay Brown is also a day horsey get that while I didn't strength yeah, you're a real unflappable, strengthening the like they just Europe a show which I like. I know they have a clear folk, Shin. Yes, Kin convicted felons but I really liked her that she's no shit, you know I'm saying that's Albania's too, and she had talk about ass yours She called us on one of our many cheats, yeah and she had a one of mine which I thought was really generous, makes you know I get real greedy with my talk, oh yeah, no matter how many I order it's not enough, even though it is plenty he has clearly, way more than enough that just
Jesse's birthday party at the Hansen's last Saturday, someone had provided a big pyramid. Of course we could down its IRAN's birthday party as the treaty. Instead of a cake, I can resist cake yeah. Ninety percent of it I am. I can resist a pie. Ninety allow the time. Ok, the that crispy cream donut that's got like the twin, You feeling inside your favorite, defenceless against it, and so once a fuckin took one by all of a sudden, you wanted. Savers, avoid three and a half with good chat, but why I was eating the first three. I was in a
that they were going to run out yeah. I was like watching every one grab for them and I was giving competitive. We live that to do you yeah, of course, all good. I thought it was just like I'm just a terrible per now. I think I think most people have added do yeah, it's like a scarcity of talent, and I was I was not good. I almost wasn't even enjoying them. I use panic there, but I will leave you that our exit, you can get another one yeah. Well something horrible happened with the donors. There is only one chocolate cake Dona, which is my favorite. That's your favorite yeah! That's counter intuitive from Crispy cream Mckenna known for that standard down. All it's me favorite, the owner yeah, my favorite type of donor, and there was only one of those. So I took it quickly, goofy but I felt guilty immediately so that I toward in half, and so does anyone want. Those other happened somewhat immediately said he ass. They took it that I took a by and then Charlie said
oh you got the chocolate son. I had to give him so I had a quarter chocolate Dona and we all agreed of any one of the party of deserve the dark. Colored. Don't you I was holding down the diverse. It was the token diversity girl YAP there that that Brown don't belong to. You and everyone corduroy ever made just like the pilgrim, stole America from the native Americans at all over us back to the city of AIDS. Bring in wait a land, the plain of course you needed the brown donut and I needed the one just injected with what it is actually counter intuitive cause. I normally gravitate towards the white thing. Vienna gravitate divorce brown things boil. I would Never ever Eber ever have picked them up with twinkie you don't like twinkie feeling. I think I do oh, but I would never have pick debt. So this is what happened. I had a quarter of the church,
glad and then like why this isn't enough. then I got the regular standard, which I also love, but it's really good if you put it in the microwave for like eight seconds that was it Cameron suggestion, but I was already in my head and he said it was like a common. Everyone already knows: thou, but apparently everyone didn't know it. They were acting shocks by that suggestion, I regret no microwave in one of them. You really should there on Bali, about warm words is like when you get him her exact yeah yeah. I know a few different locations around the city and I would see the majority time police fifty one percent in time. I pass them that signs not on the right now. Yes, now there's a war on Crenshaw, and I asked it: Monaco, probably fifty I'm gonna need to shoot on parenthood at this hospital down there,
damn. I would take Crenshaw to work. Many many mornings and home. Never driven by it, were the same, and I would have to Poland although you again, I'm a youth, I do know harder reserve can't drive by one of those with it says ha. I think most people can't you know what this just put, that sign. Yeah cause they're gonna get so much more business. I mean they have so much integrity, those crispy Cree. What if I'm hamburger trains did that precisely the bam the hamburgers are hot. Now there the members are hot right now, normally there just room top left, yeah speaking a hamburgers another great Malcolm Gladwell. Episode of revision is history. Podcast is Mcdonald, slowly and the french fries, and how they had to change their recipe in the nineties early early nineties, because there was a guy Forget his name,
He had a really bad heart attack at a young age. Anti busy went on a crusade against lots of facts exaggerated, saturated fads- and you know I e the phrase used to beef tallow who need to be made and beef tallow, bride and beef tallow and Are there not? And then they do this experiment where they are these millennium goals and make them with the beef tallow, and then they make them how they are made now with vegetable, Well, I think he had just like consensus is just so much better tasting with the beef how it is. I believe. The way like others can be like proof that, whatever you raised right, you name here but turns out no issues objective way too much much better tasting fuck. I wish I could give and I've never had one, that's what he was saying it is like these millennials have never had. The original
supplants form email, that you say this, because I thought I had this utopian view of my childhood, but I do remember the fries tasting that our guide yeah yeah yeah. They actually, where a different, I think, attention. Ninety ninety can't we open up a beef tale of French Fried one always really bad. It's horrible free! I put into something once a month, we'll that's something that he mentioned to. He said. Originally, there was like one size I was small bright to point something out says and now I'm getting these numbers. I emphasise how, like you and now the large fries like five hours legs of double the amount that Do you know it's an hour or so damn good. Beware like make these bigger, but no now they're worse. That was his point. It used to be something a reason Oh poor, Shin that silly. That is good, and now it's insanely large unreasonable amount, and it's not a good as
of a product interest. It is my God was part, as is its better, it's better than ours. It's the best part gap on, oh speaking of that, it's coming forth. Ferko logically irrational, then posted about us talking about that on their land. I was delighted to see that unita- Graham you ordered me ass, or they have now heard about them. We ve heard them talk about us and where will it go to me? It's just gets gaining moments. I can't wait to see where this Lee is a self accelerating finance. Slobber is birds, gaining momentum, despite resistance, and let us now where it goes to waste, are playing like some kind of weird game played down link that we should start something and then Bell finish it on their own, like an improv like with people who number done in producing a thing called like three words story: oh
in a legal way right now? Ok, the farmer. Always oh I've not played that you have it. Oh, we play horror and a big circle in there we go round. We say one word units, one word story other than those three words store our same. Thank is whatever of armour, always ate peanuts for his migraines, which or excruciatingly bad. He called his mouth, I'm yesterday and asked her to put out a small pill that would owe powers la I lost, but I wonder how we can start a real gave us all rang with. Let's do it so it about the three of us say a word to start. The three words are hard We're leaving. I rise to three six, nine. Ok, so Each save three words unless I wanna go ok
tomorrow in Yugoslavia, the prince shall pick now. I was again she's outsiders. Improv train encounter for all start again like that, though Christmas Day, eight. What used to be big, as a whole can Valentine's day when it used to be because our right so logically irrational. I hope your hearing his end. You will give us six more because there's two of them they might have an engineer. Some we don't know about that's true mining, her mob or her. Ok, don't get nine words back of king the noble publicize I'll call random house. If we get it in advance and then more don't need all the money to my gear Dax, a Ferrari fund now, I think should donated to the robber Mark a house fund oil going better logo produce. You goes
Holmes more than I need a ferrari, although you are lower your honor, I have a model for area of enough. If that you got me for Christmas last year in a church. It though we went on vacation this year to turn There was an f f in the parking lot. Remember yeah and I got I'd stiff, is aboard light as a feather and stiff is aboard. Oh wow, hunker, Laura LAW, okay, so the MAX Plank Institute? Is it part of honest Gutenberg University. I don't think so. The MAX plank society for the advancement of science is a formerly independent, non governmental and Non Profit Association of German research institutes founded in nineteen eleven as the Kaiser Wilhelm society and rename the MAX plank society and nineteen. Forty eight in honour of its former president theoretical physicist MAX, like the society, is funded by the federal state governments of Germany. The organization was established and nineteen eleven as the Kaiser Willem society and Non governmental, Reese
the organization named further Ben german emperor? The Quaeda Biagi was one of the world's leading research organisations, its board of directors included. Scientists like walk out O Einstein, called inside here. So I don't see it. The thing about your harness Gutenberg University, but anyway, this is a very fancy plays. Ok, so I thought that her hometown city, the city of Marshal yeah she's from Marshall Tax. Oh yeah, I thought it was from the maybe we are martian it's not now now. Is it about football or it's about in nineteen? Seventy mm. the university in West. Virginia when a plane crash claimed the lives of seventy five of the schools, football players, members and booster. You know it's funny. I dont remember that we're being a part of the movie at all, and he made a movie about everyone passing a tragedy. Maybe the movie is about
stir? Well, for one thing I can remember anything rags of Matthew Economy was in it. You should learn. I would go pick a quarrel. How the hell of an honour them do our best whenever football game and we're not gonna win, because we are marshals No that's where we are Our show both most girls, we will not be defeated by this way, will persevere. and we will work because we are a marshal of they get it to go impression that sometimes, but than others. That was I get. What I want to say. I was good at that. Has got a nice impression thanks. May you ok your hard. I welcome back it's fun to be him for a minute yeah, so positive. It's incredible! He's such a zeal for life.
Here's, a guy who would he can party with the best of up and then wakes up at five in the morning, runs like twelve miles. What an appetite for lie. The air, because I said you have some constitution honey- said that some are best work out pushing through that wall breaking through that hang over no less explode Oh explode, why none of you said exploding ere, you add a new paraphrase either way. What is your amid work out an exploded? relax I mean a bread inhabited happens to people. Yak has our work because they're so you'd I mean we ve shared photos back and forth of athletes within our up with erection. while their perform sure it's it's not animals, its common but its, but it how that there's photos of it, I think, has blood flow. I was just a lifeline. Sets an AIDS theories.
Like you just turn on all the floodgates to absorb being gorge, your quadriceps, instead, all your mass all uses drain in the upper half your body, sending all the blood down there and then the penis gets caught up in the title way. I think a lot is happening yeah. I thought it was more like an emotional thing, like your fucking. Finally, Duenna even training your whole life in your bout across the finish line in your first in your dick just gets hard from the east. now. I don't think so. It's not as that sexual. I know I've told you my story about giving the mopeds. When I was a kid the store a visiting my dad's for the weekend and he said hey. If you clean the garage I'll, take you to Anderson's Honda, we can look at sprays and I was like oh yeah- I mean it would have been just enough for me to look at them, but I was willing to clean the garage I went out there to circling the garage in the fucking. Spree was sitting at her love. That story me too. It was such a sweet thing such as you, and I
top down and immediately- and I just started writing or on the neighbourhood- and I did not stop riding till. I ran auditing. Yes and I was fully engorge the whole ride I have here. I had a screening boner. Then I was twelve and it wasn't horny tat. Maybe you were maybe see was rubbing upping all your penis in causing it to get a rat. No, I had just coveted this mobility for so long and I was experiencing it, and I know that My body knew how to led up the joy Eve like Smiling ear to ear was not enough, but maybe in that case is also like the athletes, though, Just like you are exerting lotta energy writing that thing not a lot of knowledge is my wrist for your rest or work. hard. So now the heart is my lad. Was such failure? Our anyhow per hour, and a. I remember the whole time. Writing it like deep pressure in my genes, but little on comp like I'm, not stopping cause, I'm enjoying the motorcycle summit
I didn't. I didn't climate ass, it I was gonna know. No again, it was not so went away on his. U hopped off the thing, I hope so my dad would apply seen the bold, although what could be better for a father? by his son, something and after the sun uses, it is folly iraqi, like well. That was a great present. I just think that it was about the sea more than anything. I now you never felt this scene penis, like that alone, I have written stuff it wasn't. It wasn't any didn't emanate from my crotch. It's it's emanated from my brain. How do you really know if you know the different I do you could get a racked just from very little yeah physical stimulation and no one action, correct ta. So that's probably what happens. I know I really remember the feeling Monica and it wasn't sexual. I did not love orgasm. I know it was come
someone. I didn't even want that aspect of the joy ride and joy ride when that's what the term joy ride comes from. Maybe original thanks out the inventor, The Junta spray fission eighties. So is there air a name for hypochondria medical students syndrome. It's called medical stew. Disease also known as second year syndrome or internal syndrome, a condition breaker reported a medical student supersede themselves be experiencing the symptoms of a disease that they are studying. I would just I would have that result. Mass murder, You know you know what you were the same level as the two Andrea. You said she has fifteen thousand chance higher of dying in a car accident than having a stroke these are the stairs. I found ogre hello, I'm gonna get my calculating radio you're gonna need to do some half open, and I am afraid is- can be too big for my first my skills, so I'm gonna get prepared with a calculator okay so that, if the chances I ain't a car crash one and seventy seven. I wish it wishes to know my name.
press. Me me to local ones, Seventy seven stroke stroke is the third leading cause of death in the United States. More than a hundred forty thousand p, die each year from stroke in the United States Supreme, oh god, Apples and oranges alone is at odds with what so make percentages. I'm gonna cat, I'm gonna! So ok, so one in forty thousand divided by let's call it three hundred and fifty million Americans. Three hundred. That is point: zero, zero, zero, four point: zero zeros yourself, ten hundred thousand, million for millions of a person
the new mode of energy me ass though, as young as heroes, three sat, so four hundredth of a per cent get chance cited points here. Three seven one shot at it: four hundredth over percent one. Seventy seven, a m is that's all one to sell some guys? Allow is thousands more Lothar, as you are more likely to die in a car accident, which is what you said, the ogre ok growth within the EU of fifteen thousand chance, and we Now we were this. This math exceeded our she'll level. Have you? No one else could be tricky. I just gotta could someone's price scream at their dashboard right now tat. I also just complicated things by one in seventy seven figure might be over your lifetime, and I just did in one year. That's true could potentially multiply that number by eighty years
In fact it all up even more so if we did about airy hard to do that in Paris and we're gonna get some different. You know why? Don't you know what I think you just Polly shouldn't make that comparison. I won't ok how many instances of malpractice in criminal court, so here I have six. All real one of them is Christopher Dunnage, Doktor Carr. Brad Murray, the physician who is caring for Michael Jackson, he based criminal charges or the Orthodox orthopedic surgeon charge. The murder of strike or sales wrap in South Carolina South Carolina based orthopedic surgeon. Adam Laszlo Rainy has been charged with involuntary manslaughter and obstructing justice after across link, orthopedic strike or sales representative died of
I'm shot wound of e g. That's a little deaf ran so ism, but he's taking away a surgeon, ok and so is MIKE Jackson's doktor because it wasn't in an operating room. I think her. The specific claiming Doktor John was the first person to face criminal charges for something that happened in the operating room. So so far those two don't qualify for that, but I think I got jacks it was still tactically malpractice or one thousand per year, yet it is not enough. He wasn't in an hour the habitats, so specific that to me is similar as a medical related like yeah. He was in charge of that person and then but this murder one is little differ yeah. Ok, former Amis, you Dean, Doktor Williams, trampled charged with criminal sexual conduct. All that was further the olympian not Larry NASCAR blaring ass are also is on this list. Obviously ogre o this Williams trample
former EAST Lancing Base, Michigan State University Dean and Larry NASA boss. This was learned. Ass, ours, boss was arrested and tried with criminal sexual conduct. Two counts: wilful neglect of duty, Baron is Doktor, Gregory Belcher sentence to twelve month prison term for health care fraud. Saratoga California, based Orthopedics, urging Gregory Belt Sure MD was sentenced to twelve months in a day in prison for making a false statement to a healthcare benefit programme. Doktor Belcher was sentence after an eight trial in which he and his wife in office partner. They'll assign a gun ash that an indian percent were convicted of healthcare fraud. Doktor Belcher submitted a false billing claim related to the physical therapy practice he conducted from the Saratoga offices of the Campbell Medical Group. Ok, Christopher Don sentenced to life in prison for entering his patients, come spine, surgeon, Doktor, Johnny, Benjamin.
found guilty basis: possibility of life in prison, a jury found Vero Beach, Florida, spine, surgeon, Johnny, Benjamin Lowood and Trademark yeah whole Benjamin Zadig monster. Why name: one real first named Johnny, Benjy Johnny, Benjamin or Jonathan Benjy, ogre M d guilty of five accounts. A felony doktor management was charged with illegal drug distribution. Investigators also charge the surgeon preventing a painter laced with that non caused the death of a woman in two thousand. Sixteen the jury reached a verdict capital week long trial, Doktor Benjamin will remain in federal costs until July, sick sentencing hearing he faces a possibility of life in prison, so slow, always warmer in an operating room, because the thing The reason I would imagine it so hearted convict somebody if someone's undergoing an operation there's a likelihood that they're gonna die
some percentage varies. You know when we have the brain surgeon eyes like quite often here. Dealing with somebody. That's got of ten percent chance of living without this procedure right, there's a high fatality right sort of try, someone from murder, Ghana, just something predictable happen, just doesn't happen. Threat suffer in this Dutch yeah it's so funny if I to sum up a single like videos, a single word to describe the dutch case. What would your word be? I have a specific work. If it is the whole thing had to summed up in one word, arrogant yeah! That's my word arrogance near me: it's a story of arrogance, yap, I'm guilty of arrogance from time to time. It's one of my character. Defects way I'll, have him yeah, but not everyone is Eric.
not, everyone has its rose arrogance. The grocer would have do you think you always had it like when you re younger No, I think I thought I'd like to think, or maybe it's just an excuse I like to think of it. It was born out of being dyslexic unfeeling stupid. How like that I was over compensating so much. I just became a know it all. Oh, I see yeah, you do think you had it before you were successful in acting, oh yeah. I don't think so Oh? No, I can that success. I get. I often you know I'll, tell you this like when I go to bed at night. I have. I have these flashes of embarrassing moments over my life to her there's a bunch of one of them that always comes up, and I dont know why my mother pick me up from school. I was like in first greater second grade. He told you this members. She picked me up in our, heavy show that then I choose to ride home from school on the floor of the phronsie like us, kind of like sitting on the floor and I was acting really cool. Like shoes ask you mean like what
was happening like how my day was. Ours is acting super over a haggard care anymore. I can really remember: try not miss this cool guy thing and I think about it all that always think about how much money they think about it. Moms response must have been strong enough than you, Remember that I know you re. I don't think it's just the feeling. You must have felt some. She gave romance mortgages, Google images good and gloves you shame. Sometimes I know I'm sorry Yes, Baron guide me sometimes, I think, shames really important and then another one. I remember. Oh, my god, I was arguing with this guy in my college years I just had a western sieve class of pay. This guy was explaining to me how, like history, is not real cause, why people have written it
a lot of blood. In that light. Now he was black okay and I was like one can call the Egyptians why they were not why it may start recording history in twenty six sixty BC at my tactic was like: when were the pyramids? go and we're getting ready to thinking about love, tat what it looks like a year ago. You know you know, Histories Vegas, whether a whim or the pyramids bill and began. No one knows there built in twenty six sixty BC. I happen to know because I just took that class and for what reason that number has stuck in my head or ever while you were like the blazing was because I knew that number o winning this argument of those wrong only at school, No, no! No! No, this is our party are and so out of Bulgaria. This was enough, though, the Detroit lawyer in bath arena save a guy's name, but I remember you
actually goes our ya look. I don't think he was right, but I certainly my sight of it was like such an arrogant. Don't like me Well, you don't know anything. You may know the pyramids How can you be try that seems to actually got a totally irrelevant and also to the point either of you are much the way. People did not record that the best part is true. No Egyptians record their history, Mesopotamians recorded their history on those people. Are why, right now, if I met current version of history, sure like whose riding hacks books Normal mercury is definitely from the perspective of the the colonists but anyways. I thought I was like. I had the check point anyways, I think about them. probably once a month going about it. I'm embarrassed about mine, my behaviour and that argument well, another one you in here another embarrassing, my god, this one so rough,
Erin, I wear a weekly my best friend he it is rare that he's gonna hold my feet to the fire is worrying together. I've watched him make a bunch of mister it's not a story, I am of loyalty and vice versa, and one time he my brother and I were in a pebble beach doing a car show for GM on the golf course and I got really drunk on red wine. I was here Edward Unread went in order not to rank red wine that wasn't my drank yeah? Does it seem like an I got into a fucking arguing with my brother? I was so mean to my brother. I was so regretful, oh so embarrassing. I stay, but amid all this hostility towards my brother, I kept asking him what he thought. The start spread the production and use the oh, my yeah so embarrassed. This is so embarrassing and the next day airing kept saying to me, you know the starting GPA as if he would
it's more like an. He was making fun of me scared and yeah Laddie, dad it's shameful, I'm sullen Ferris! I was led you aplenty about as your brother. I'm sure it is. I think I did and I D spent the whole they trying to win him back over in the way that only little brother knows how to do what he knows. The best show I could that day as we are driving on. Seventeen may share he doesn't remember it is, but I remember every day I was ashamed, yeah! Ok, this is very interesting. I'm so grave Laren called you out on man. He asked in French Do you like that people call? well or are you do like that? People are loyal and keep their mouth quiet were. Currently I do. I love friends that point out has been virtually what a is rounds. but when I was younger and yet a rustling, some addictions and a lot of my behavior was shameful yeah. I think I needed a lot. Forgiveness, tolerance for my improving,
since cause it was just overwhelming, but errand had that perfect level right where he wasn't like piling on me feeling guilty by we. I didn't need any help. Would people making me feel guilty? I knew when I first Dublin I in the morning, woke up in replayed every conversation right. I was aware of it. I didn't need anyone to pile on it air and was good at the times. Were I actually wasn't feeling? or I had a blind spot right right rain, because I know like party. Your whole thing is the way you used to show love with all your friends is like I mean just Palmy loyal to the answer, in just jump in a matter why it, and so I assume that that's what you like, but what don't even that is that we have a shared level of ethics right. So it's like in our group. This is terrible, but this is the truth and the mid nineties, near
Us drinking and driving. Wasn't something we would shame each other of rye is like we all did that I'm getting a fight, wasn't something we change up here. it is all these things that we had a shared yeah ethics, because we were, you know scumbags on some level now they are just as Europe where you re used. It is what is whatever it's, what we do here, but then, even within that you could step. beyond that. I did several times in Erin, always when I left our ethics would pointed out right. It's got a job. Was really helpful to us is really the reason I quit drinking the very first time that I went to his house on a Sunday night for a poker game, and I drank the half Guiana Jack Daniels. Apparently I belligerent and Bob LAW on the next day said. Look, I love you, but you can drink at my house anymore oh fuck, because I knew we already had a low bar. Rather, I appreciated that he
did you call me out on yeah and economy, started me on a path I have it, for I have something different than my friends: do they, like the party but they're they're, not degenerate alcohol at me, and I was here yeah but in general, don't you find that's the weird thing about ethics like if you point out something that I'm doing wrong by your estimation, but that's not in my. moral code. I don't even care you should waive afterwards tat, you know you get in line or something you is. I won't feel judge by that casino I personally number India is not the weird thing about shame and ethics like tat. They have to actually point out something that they they know you do care about. That did not. For me, brilliant depends on your sums that you should be more friendly. You wouldn't you just go like you have a different barometer of what how friendly you think people need to be, and I don't think I need to be everything depends on.
Is telling me that someone. I trust I would take that in as oh, I'm I'm coming off really rude or differently in different countries and different. Then I think I am so I'm gonna make an effort. If, if someone I respect and trust, Stan Nope loves me right. If it's a stranger, I don't care what they are telling me to do. But yeah. If you tell me, Do something- and I was like- oh I don't even think that really matters I be like a, but maybe it does matter road. I really think about it, yet I probably The I've made a lot of changes. I think now that you know you told me that you didn't like that. I say the word hate all the time and I d say that word anymore. I mean I say in jest ammonia arguing about like something funny. I hate gear that, like I hate, found feature linking, but I take in but people say major about them. I mean, if I know
they care about me, but if I'm being honest, sometimes in those cases, it's just that I value them, and I am willing to do something different to be around them- is not necessarily the eye caught. I came to believe that that was a good point or is defendable orb jack actively. The right thing to do I'll, just go I want to be around them, so I can. I can oblige that to stay in their presents. I have a lot of those be married like there's a ton of stuff. I'm doing I don't agree with. I don't really think there's a nation for why I should do it that way, but I'm willing to yeah. You know anyway, ok, so the more expensive. The treatment, the greater the placebo effect she said, and that is true There are lots of studies about that. Its true that makes sense of you think you like, if their charging ten thousand dollars for this thing in House To be yes, I wouldn't get orderly. I can see my brain being very susceptible. That was Alec, expensive thing. I know I always with the time I most aware of it is like facial products,
Basically, all they ve got to do is charge like four hundred dollars for a face cream, and I my or will it must they have some science in it I mean who could just chuck, but you could just charge foreigner dollars for a normal face cream. Now I am sure many of them do them sure they do other. I'm using a very expensive is completely and I love it is worth. Everybody is worth that anyway, so That's all that's all! She wrote. Ok, love you! I love you