Armchair Expert Live from Los Angeles at UCLA. February 1st, 2020.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome. Welcome all the norm, Jerry Expert, I'm Dac shepherd joined by Monica Pad man. Now this addition of experts on expert is particularly fun one for me alive show it was alive show, but with a friend action, a friend from college Mason Deleon and I were in archaeology class. Together, you see lay some. Twenty years ago we had other classes together, but yeah in our best bodies in college- and he has now grown up to be a very impressive anthropologists. He researches theories of violence. Materiality latin american migration, photo ethnography, forensic science and archaeology of the contemporary. He directs the undocumented. My nation project, a long term, study of clandestine border crossings that uses a combination of ethnographic archaeological, visual and forensic approaches to understand this phenomena in a variety of geographic content,
ass. He also won the Macarthur fellowship, which has very esteemed Monica incredibly exclusive. He also has a book right now called the land of open graves. We appropriately recorded this live at. You see, lay in front of us of students, and it was quite a blast. Little reminder tomorrow, tickets go on sale for the history. Con armchair expert live from LOS Angeles, had capacity. convention centre tickets go on sale, at ten a m allay time. Tomorrow you can visit W W W armchair expert pod dot com for a ticket link. Please enjoy mile drinking, but Jason Deleon. We are supported by Roth these. I can't imagine a better use for recycled plastic bottles than what Roth's is doing I mean this company. They make style issues for women and girls out of recycled. Water bottles and their crazy, comfortable and fully machine
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he's Jason. Please get comfortable brought my hat case. It gets Wendy. I that did the signs as I helped you get sobered you just made. My entire nine six, my congratulations so Jason? We have not seen each other on the way here. I was like it'll be twenty years coming up that I graduated, which is alarming and then so. Nineteen for you. I think the last time I saw you are like. The can hang out with you anymore, you're too much of an enabler I'm trying to like do shit with my life and not good together.
He now. I give a lot of thought to our past and I was like the truth is, I guess, you have your constitution, so you could somehow daily on, could drink until five a m and then he would show up where he had to be at six a m sweating booze bear we coherent, but he had one. These smiles that'll get you out of prison and all the professors love dumb. over there I mean Jesus smell, but we love you, but you you just have that constitution. Don't not anymore. It's gone away. I wish gone the way. The Dodo kind fosters island principle, are you blown away, stardom harangue? By the way, I am also going to decide in a lot of throw that have both corrupted in my own memory and is definitely obsolete itself prepared a cringe Lula. I have ten you're, not read anything anymore, literally
First question: I want to ask you what are you ten year, because I won't know what stories I can bring up Ok, so we're going to go away, arrogant gang buckle up you're from long beach right, That's right I'll, be euins near to most famous warranty, warranty sublime. Oh yeah sublime, but we re- just my mom yeah yeah, when the deadly it's gonna be like that. Well, parents got divorced and eighty five and then so. I live a dead for three kind of horrible here's a hot and then I ran away. Ok, that seems to be the Adam for Dad's, back and eightys what Ages EU level? Third, through fifth read the item. I started going to therapy basically literally area the schools like articles like you
every day at home. My dad wasn't really around ok. So I was like a latchkey kid. I spend a lot of time that all Malone, then you work knights, and so I would be at home, but myself, till the morning. Anything now or how old are you when you got interested in punk rock? Is I think? That's really what happened you and I were in a class together this guy's a suspicious of monetary tool for a student here. I think they're ubiquitous, but in ninety nine I think they were. They were still. You are out on a limb a little bit low, but I think I think it was all about intensity like how far can we push it? I think people who were pushing things in a certain direction. Gravity. what are? They bore? You know yeah, enablers or or who are like fuck it. Let's do it either.
economy, class or fellow scumbags. Wanna do what age you start getting interested in music in plain punk rob you know asserted listening like pretty intensity music player on nine or ten. That was home alone all the time. My parents had huge record collection, and so I would just play a shipowner records and you know in the chuck, bury credence that kind of stuff and then Puberty hits and then it was like heavy metal and then heavy metal leading into like Grunge, and IRAN's leading meet up to punk rock so probably seriously getting any music rough. Fourteen ok in now argue recently posted a pitcher of yourself in high school in there's a lot of things going on in the photos. There's a lot of clues to work with to construct an idea of what you are I can hear school. First of all, you ever more mohawk, but he also braces so I said what have what a mixed message here: it's like fuck, suicidal norms, and I want my teeth. We straight as hell with that picture,
and also in a tuxedo, and that picture you sure, are because when I was in high school I wanted this really diverse high school was was in high school and wills. People are getting pissed at home coming there every year at homecoming, it's a white homecoming king and queen, even though we're like sixty percent of color in the school, so they decided that, like my senior you that they were going to have international ambassadors for every ethnic group while and so they could. find someone who was based islander I've had it GPA to do it, and then someone heard that I was half Filipino and there were like hey, you come and be Clark, I gotta get to work exceed. Oh, I go k fine well again. Here we go with my memory, which is probably in air but weren't, all the Pacific islands. They did paddle from the Philippines. someone near the real economic use. What island here aren't I remember, learn you're, so embarrassed warming bears ok, here's what I remember learning, which is
are deeply flawed, but the people that colony is that chain of islands Samoa Tong all that they didn't sale there. They rode there, and that was a long ass voyage. So they did a basically artificial natural selection where they picked up the biggest heaviest Is that good role for a very long time and have some fat reserves and these deploy them? And that's why Simone's or so Big. That's what I learned That is just the MILAN Astoria. Oh my god, you're right! That's where I got that so when it was I'm just saying you put your on your on terra firma with this would be in the Pacific, island or you're like the original Pacific Islander, but I grew larger sums. It is natural Malaysia, we do agree. They rode to Tonga now, whatever monocle fact check this so the baby
did someone who could represent the Pacific, but my problem is: I grew up so as a military brad, I moved lived all over the world and I was always and only brown student and people what what are you and I was doing my dad's Mexicans, Filipino my mom says a mix. and people would say, like that's, not a real fucking thing. Your your brown, you gonna last name daily on your Mexicans. I was like this kind of forced on me for a long time. In some of the time someone has been high school, like oh yeah you're, also, filipino when I was a girl yeah, but nobody seems to run ignore until right now, and I think that the picture I love my filipino route, but I feel like I spent when I grew up in south taxes to so. I spent a lot of time around people who were like what the Hell's the Philippines yeah yeah. They didn't know about them. Rowing. Anyone know I got nobody, does Apparently nobody does
but so you ended up being like a prom king or could squires on random shit like that yeah. That's, that's really impressive. I can ask you, having spent time in taxes on one that what was it a relief to land in long beach did you feel, like others, obviously there's a much bigger latino contingent in long Beach and say Michigan or other parts of the country right? That was it at all. Like oh, ok growing up in long beach. I really got me like. I thought the world is at diverse, you always adding the cambodian friend yeah friend it was a huge gave him you growing up. So all that stuff, I thought, was just totally normal rules. Until I went on tourism as a teenager like the deep South Emilio shit effectually, the world doesn't look like long beach yeah, but I think you know growing up. There really can include me into diversity in a way that I wouldn't have gotten a lot of us,
when in other parts of outlay we are totally people. Think I'm the gardener. Where I live, I mean I'm always lag or, like I don't mean you know, there's like few people of color where I live, my neighborhood, and so I always think, like you see like an african American doesn't go, you must be hip hop artist or a Atley OSHA, when they see me, I'm not sure what they think of me The gardener gradually, let the bramble neighbourhood there there gardening in the ball and then I wonder what people think it is the I'm trying to think what I m back and when I used to be on evolve and stereotypes Think what I would back, why Rodeos Dar Rodeo hears Rodeo star jockey, famously with jackets, so you get into punk rock in the here's. What why bring a punk rock? Is I'm wondering why you major anthropology? Like did you come here? First of all, how did you come from high school straight here? Yeah, ok, so much better! it's a nice will than I did. I gotta never got gotta never got in here, although I think
anyway with higher honours and you so whatever it was. Also true, I guess I just need to be challenged. Did come here. Knowing you we're gonna major an answer. I was declared annual major, oh really and lastly, like five weeks and dropped down, went home and leave them a monster oh, you came in and laugh we're twice twice. I didn't realize they had like a sabbatical policy o my guy, like Stamford, you skip out for a long time and money, and if you know no, I lasted five weeks have failed in short, archaeology yeah well, there's an encouraging story. All of you could have a Macarthur grant and somehow what do you want to do it through? Because I wanted to being archaeology You did me Sonny Leanna Jones, oh yeah, India, the that has to be responsible for a significant percentage of our The algae may actually my generation, our generation people. I mean that was kind of force, exposure to toe the discipline, because there's no star wars,
the great nothing like me console or something so that's off the table, so your next to no longer be Indiana Jones. I think what really drew me to it was as someone who was obsessed with the punk rock scene was questioning like all this stuff or inheriting like do. We have to do this stuff. Is this? Like? Does everyone do this? All these rules and customs, I'm I'm just of inheriting, for my family in my town is that the only option and I think maybe having this intro classrooms. Oh no theirs! brazilian ways to live on planet earth and then so encouraging to me, and I think it was kind of its stemmed out of my scepticism about our own culture in some way. But now I find out, we don't share that at all where we common, but we do, but we know that say we do share that because I came in. I wanted to be an archaeologist
what did we Indiana Jones and then I realized how fuckin boring. Archaeology is all I love as someone has a phd in archaeology, but it was not what I wanted it gonna do, but I really got excited about Cultural Anthropology. As a student, you silly we're in that class. Connally Casey the Witchcraft one either witchcraft genocide or deviant and abnormality when the idea that when I was like will shit but yeah yeah. I think we really bonded over that. Well, I, I say this all the time that the teacher had been possessed by a spirit at some point: Sub Saharan Africa, which, prior to me hearing that ability you know, there's no such thing. I don't want to tell you here's a person I trusted truly, I loved her and in I believed that her experience was such that she God possessed by it veered and then was a sham and relieved her of that element? If I recall- and I was like, while that's the power of culture, could she entered that not necessarily believing in it and herself and then all of a sudden? It was real. I find that very fascinating. Those
Mason Class, so when I, when we met in maybe we'd, have me there, but when we had that archaeology class, so we went and dug up it stunt ranch. And I had the fantasy that we were going to explore would like dynamite pick axes. dumper share within a week or two, we discover the Jade Mass nor us hidden city or something Fine shit where I am More than that, you start to know some stinks when you get there and the hand you paint brush, homer you do. The paintbrush, like waiting they go down two centimeters in making say two readings of everything- and I was like this can't be our It was a real big wake up call for me. I was like this is off the table and then our obsession during that class? Was we had been taught that the two mash used to you man route. Oh yes, to stupefied the fish and small streams. Because it too is an hallucinogenic
and the alliance, and I spent a good portion of our time searching for man route at ranch asking questions like so if one were to take this in what would be the Tom Wake was like you guys are fucking you when you're gonna kill yourself, always what's that, its due to what disease some shit, but not meet God. What is that you like it? five, nine. What's that those six two but boy have so much. there. We, my obsession during that dig was we came across a rattlesnake at one point that walk into the field some gals, I got that happened. Like other, take this mountain line, you know warnings, because we ve already come across a rattlesnake in so good chunk of my day was paid. the scene. My defence against a mountain lion was offer the leg and then
growled the neck bomb grab and then boom. I didn't archeo energy and that whole time just Mount Lions Andrew rattlesnakes and then often locally it was on Friday. We were up there for, I think, like four hours now all day, Doll day. Ok, go down to the saddle ranch bar down there and calabash s just wine from a long day of it? Now we parted as in two thousand, I graduated with bill about better GPA than you manage to hand down, but I will say you know what these we also bonnet over. Was you telling me you are like? I didn't? Have never had the college experience a transfer from community college,
I never had a college buddy yeah, that's it you're really committed to like having a college buddy extreme. Your maybe I was there to like. I was there for you for that, and it happened at the perfect time. It is my last semester at you see away, and then I met you and Alex, and we do I just we remain convinced for years in order to make up for lost time that the highlight now we parted ways, and then you again. I wonder if in that moment I think viewed ass, any of our classmates, who here we'll, be employed at some point later down the road we're dead currently numbers like thirty and thirty one, for the gap is right, very unlikely, and over the years I guess I would follow you, unlike the rudimentary versions of social media. What not and I go. Oh, that's cool he's, gonna graduate school and then, of course you did you ended up, into Penn State and get you into pants,
and then got a phd in our galaxy. I remember being so excited for you in just thinking God he did. He really did it. Did you Did you blow your own mind with having seen that all the way through specially viewed quit? Why did you quit the first time I wanted to be in a ban gap here I want to play music gear and I didn't like my classes to and they weren't they weren't kind of inspiring. At the time I think yeah. So I needed a vision, Quest bag. I just want to say I'm on the record has been recovering attic. I've been them a few crack houses, I've never been do a places dirtiest, Jason's House Eddie lived in what has banned in westward, I also want to mention that today I was reading about using what was the name of his band and then it even though, the name of the ban back then, I didn't put together the cleverness of it till just today. The ban was called euthanasia.
Youth Asia. Twenty years later, I got it I took it at face value, is it spells people in Asia, paddling east of Pakistan Everyone's included share a few hundred million youths in in Asia like a long transition. Is some serious because I actually, although I am quite aware of what you ve done- I'm not entirely o aware of what you ve done. Before women get into it? When I knew we'll talk about it. I thought: do you find it hard to have an apolitical conversation about what you study when you're talking about migration or emigration migration. I think soon, as Americans hear the word immigration, they immediately connect to a party. Unlike you,
you made some discovery, a bird feathers from the Jurassic period on a dinosaur. You don't go like Ronald Reagan. Well, that's a mobile. My dad are right there. You don't have any association with other data like that, so I'm just one I'm curious how just even deciding to study this has been either mired in politics or even when you want to present your your findings, I'm trying to escape that lends or or is it baked in, and should it be seen as a political endeavour ending in the beginning. I thought about it as an ape political endeavour. I was, I am an archaeologist eminent, oppose them studying the thing from a scientific perspective and I'm doing it from an a kind of a political stance and doing it
the document and to better understand I remember the first, Mr. They took a colleague of my friend of mine and she said to me. Why you're so full of shit that at that must make you feel better and sleep at night by thinking that this is kind of an apolitical endeavour? Huh, you know, and I had a cunning it up to speed about all anthropology is political decision that you make the study, something that the political decision, even if you decide to such study, something like you know what we ate in the past. You know five thousand years ago. I think that's a political decision How so? Because your choosing to in either engaged or not engage with certain topics are being of peoples who study like subsistence and in the past. How that relates to something like an equality rights are not everybody, eight equal footing in the past. So even when it's not kind of up front, I think it still it still up very much political. The battles we go down tell a lot about our own politics. Well, let's start with the fact that you are a half mexican have Filipino. Was that part of why you were even interested in that like what? What was the spark that?
we're like. That's, if you recall remember if I was going to pursue the policy was just going to be delivered the house angels. Yet that area I want to do and have now agreed on the hell's angels for obvious. Recent zeal. Yet I'm wondering I guess your own background that play into it ordered something else, spark your interest and no, I think, would really sparked it was working in Mexico and archaeological excavation were out in the middle of nowhere with in a working class, women and men who are getting paid to dig ditches alongside he's archaeologists and securing that their stories about migration and about border crossings, and orbiting that to happen to them whose those stories that really kind of inspired me you know, thinking like I've, become very close with this individual he's just told me a horrible story about what has happened to him, and I want to better understand that, and so initially it was. It was that interest in those folks it, but I mean I think my own background allows me certain access to particular types of people in particular, have the stories, but it was the first time I think you know within academia being a brown person was always you know, consider to be,
You know not an asset, for you know it's like something that can an impediment to overcome jar, unlike happy just to be on the table kind of thing, but it wasn't. I realize, like oh what my own background allows meet a certain type of access than it started to feel really empowering and then Then, all of a sudden I wasn't having to explain away my background, but really to say I want to write about by about immigration and about border crossings, and I have a personal connection to these issues, which then I think facility it's the work yeah, but I didn't start out like. Oh I'm like If and when I was a super apolitical person yeah as a student the reason even bring up the political thing is because unfortunately, currently at least soonest
then is under the paradigm are left or right. That means you immediately lose fifty percent of the ears and so that therein lies the trouble like. I fear that you could have some break through discovery and then just it would fall, mute and half of the population because it is framed as a political thing, but also recognise its a cop out to say it's, not a political, yourselves, we'll see both sides and I really am trying to get em inanimate, I'm not trying to preach to the choir awry, heavens or no interest in that. So you know through all the different kinds of public outrage, sort of thing that we're doing the exhibition work Documentary film, trying to write more excessively Turner right stories at our thereabout migrants there about immigration, but the really leading with the stories about individual. So people can pick it up and go well. Do I connect with this character? Yeah who happens to be a migrant happen?
to be an immigrant that sort of my approach, and there are some people who does you mention immigration and then there's nothing. You can do to connect with those folks right rang. The wall gives immediately up, but it you're totally and in a medical, yeah yeah. I know while job is not so much? How was looking at this critical issue through the archaeological lens different from how it had been looked at through other disciplines? or in the media, most archaeology right when you hear the word archaeological think about ten thousand years ago five thousand years ago, and I ve been very few projects that were looking at contemporary material. But as far as I'm concerned, archaeologist means a study of the past through material remains, but the past can be this morning last week doesn't have to be five thousand years ago, and so, when I started thinking about the things at border crossings behind and how it can use archaeology to understand that that seem to me like a natural kind of party,
I think the people were like what the hell is this you know you know and either arguing that's, not archaeology or oh shit. Maybe this actually is an interesting way to kind of think about the relevance of archaeology to contemporary kinds of issues. So what were the first steps? Like you start what you down there, and you start just walking the route that people walk in finding things like what what now? Basically that's where it starts, I make some phone all I'm twenty done. Arizona you'd have against them. Most of us funding on the internet, where people who were talking about in a migrant trash in the desert look at these kind of filthy invaders kind of thing. I start looking at these pictures, the water, but and better conveniently or environmentalists, and that, oh, yes, I, like Sierra Club
but I was like oh shit, this stuff out there, so I started making phone calls found someone who this guy named named Bob key, who does a lot of humanitarian work in the desert and felt sorry for me, it's an altogether doesnt show you some stuff a high, and I went out sort of walking around the desert and just seeing all the stuff and was like. Will this is our key ology? Can we document get them the map out that sort bagging seven tagging in and collect and see what we can do from an ecological lens yeah in. So, as you start compiling all this in mapping, it are you finding certain things that you realise like. Oh, this is more profound than a water bottle, or this is a real glimpse into what the experiences like you see different kinds of things. I think there's there's the personal stuff right, the Bible, the love letters, the baby stuff, it
but always like really difficult and but our oh yeah diaper bags that kind of stuff you know baby shoes, you know you'll, see things like a pair babyship with with something written on it. Someone saying goodbye to this. Kid is getting ready to migrate kind of thing. Those initially were like the most powerful kinds of things, but then, after a while, you know all the water bottles and in those things really hit me because you Do you know someone was relying on this one down a water to survive, and I have a deep appreciation for all the materials. Now I mean not just as the step that really that hit you emotionally, but I think everything that the food wrappers the broken shoes, all that kind of stuff yeah and when you are out there, are you running into like these guys who have arm themselves and are like on the border? Are you running into them? not so much when I was working on the archaeological stuff, because that particularly ran until about twenty sixteen twenty. Seventy
the place where I was working? There were not a lot of vigilantes out their part of it because a place it. I was working vigilante that killed a nine year old girl in her dad like the Euro, started working on this project, and so they had been kind of persona non grata in this region, but postponed sixteen him in a sort of back in an area where I work was so when it is our. What year did you start? Doesn't nine so and, as you are, it is, does any kind of pattern emerge? Is there any kind of insight you gather by by looking at it that way and documenting all the stuff like that something become obvious?
do you that we're all missing you start to see how things of all over time like the types of technologies people are using so like initially, he bore easing white water bottles, and then they realize how well the white reflects a lot alight. It's easy to be sparked by the border patrol suddenly start painting it with a with a marker occurring with it black trash bag and in some enterprising person in Northern Mexico's is let's make black water bottles to sell these migrants, and so you can kind of you to step over over the course of just a couple of years, and these are patterns that I would ask migrants amount. They had no it. They had no idea of the black water bottle, one of those show up there. What we ve always had em. Well, they weren't here last year, kind of thing you you'd see kind of that you would see also larger patterns of like
you can see the experience be. Other people have based on the archaeological record over over space so close to the border. What are you throwing that? What are you leaving behind? You know twenty five miles north? What is the stuff? Look like right, so things are bloodier, things are broken, people are exhausted, their losing their losing their clothes because it can carry it anymore, so you're able to seek a certain patterns. I got through the archaeological remains it. Would you ever go in deep into Mexico Lego? Yet fifty percent of my time is spent with migrants interviewing them about their experiences. You know giving them cameras having them photograph their experiences and root, and and send me the photos kind of our no canning. So how much of that of you gather just oh the lot really, I would mean that's primarily. What I do is that you is working with wood living living people in and give them the tools. If I went to it as much as I can already The June for more lives show after this exciting commercial break.
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Yo Slash Dax to get this exclusive cleaning offer grove dot seals I stacks. How do you deal with? I have to imagine? Inevitably you meet someone down there. You give him this tool, your Gunnar, somehow connecting get that thing. I would compare it. I guess to my mom working and foster care which is like it has to be painful, did not be you know you don't have the ban with her capacity, probably to help all that you ve connected with like what is that part of the job like the hardest part, a minimal I mean I, I was ass the day like what is it that drives kind of this work, and I think for me it's the connection. I make what people that I'm working with like this deep commitment and nessus part of like maybe coming from
can home, maybe not having a lot of family where I've looked towards Anthropology as a way to create you know kinship, and so I think I'm always to integrate kinship with these people that I work with, and it's really difficult to love someone and be committed to them and then to be like ok, have fun in the desert. You send me these photos kind of thing, yeah, that's a really brutal part of the process or if they then make it here, don't you feel kind obligated like help in some way once they're here, I mean I'm connected to the other four cleverly right about, even after the first book him and I'm still really connected to them and helping out in United one of the guys I read about in the first book, quick all memo, a joke that he's on the Macarthur health plan, because in its mean that money is paying for of his his medical bills. Aha and so yeah me, this long commitment and a netbook came up five years ago. Yeah. I think one of the reasons the topic in general is so daunting is like these bloom amber
see experiments where it's like? You look at one kid in your very willing to help a photo of one kid in need. You had like us sister or brother and it kind of goes down a little bit and then it gets into the predictable patterns. Like you had fifty thousand people like, I don't know man I'm out like. So what is the scale of the people heading north? I mean it's too many to count. I mean no talking hundreds of thousands of people yearly. Now coming from from Central America, so I'm working to put it right now for the last five years have been working with smugglers. So what would I would call a coyotes yeah yeah yeah I had so people who are kind of on the edge fringe gonna characters not really sympathetic, characters because they're doing all kinds of horrible stuff. They live really short lives because it wrapped up in all kinds of violence, and I've been really committed to those guys, this other population that nobody cares about. Yet I'm
I've connected to these two, some of these folks and, in my thing, really deep ways and the now turned to write about them in a way that get people to care about that human cost, which is even more chat. I mean it's easy to for most immediate think you can make a sympathetic character sketch out of a migrants, but with people who are smuggling it's a lot harder and part of what I'm trying to do really is to paint a human picture from that component of this. But people have hard enough time feeling bad for babies in cages and so now making this leap towards these. You gotTA guys profit yea out in some manner. From that, no do you. see having now done this for sixteen years or whatever are there things that could be done, because I guess from the outside and I'll probably put my foot my mouth, but you know it seems like theirs, lotta sides of the equation is like one. You have countries that people want to leave. So how do you fix a bad? I guess I'm curious. What should we be doing differently and what are some of the solutions? I think we'd
really big, beautiful wall norms and that'll, be quoted contact allowance, guilder, and go yeah marble. You know. I think I had a british journalist asked me once like you know, and I won't my terrible years, my oars than mine I want. I want your average accident, Diane! she asked me once like. Why would you fix this problem with? What's comprehensive immigration? Reform look like, and I said: well, you ve got to stop meddling with central american political system. The? U S, intervention is positive if totally screwdriver simple Amerika, for for decades. We ve also got to show you a couple example. Those I mean we just we put people in power in central America that are going to kind of toe the line for the United States yet and we we consistently undermine kind of grass roots peopled contemplate democratic process.
yeah, and so when we ve been to an effort for ever ran world good at it, but so the kind of consistent undermining of Mexico's economy a moon is this idea that NAFTA was somehow a really bad deal for the United States. Nafta was a really great deal for certain capitalists in the United States and really screwed over Mexico and in a lot of ways the forcing people to have to migrate, and you don't, of course we want them here, because I will pay them less money for work. All those kinds of things that need to be fixed as part of innovation reform and with a journalist was like don't you think those are like those countries problems. You know- and I think a lot of Americans think that that that's also the case like that Mexico is corrupted, in all these issues. Central America's is having all these issues and we think about. It is a well. We ve gotta put this Wall solve these problems, even though we know that those problems are directly connected to the things that we do and it's just an unpopular perspective for a lot of oxen. When I was at a trumpet alien, worn, Michigan and twenty sixteen people chanting build a wall before he becomes out.
Comes out, this kind of, like yellow freeburg, have yet inner cancer because it goes on for an hour. You know if he comes out. we're, gonna build this wall and it's gonna, save your jobs and, unlike robots crossing them right? You know like I want to see you, but you know what an increase of something like we're. Gonna stop Mexico from stealing your job. And, unlike as if Mexico's as powerhouse it, just as you know, we need some more work for us, so give us he's plants and it's like now, but the people have to see those connection setting to better understand what comprehensive immigration reform would actually look like So I'm now going to I'm going to be forced to take some of the positions I don't hold, but I'm just going to bring up some concerns, so I think people are nervous that if it were just like every one come that somehow we would be completely buried in Brasilia and people that we don't have services to help that there is a fear. The only gettin you getting people who are coming
the jobs it yeah, I wish they weaken the best of the best and I don't have it at. I don't want to their bad? Now, I'm the one you know on this country. I would invite you to walk on De Los visas for a job here. So I mean it's. Nobody I think is saying, open borders? Everybody come right before talking about. If you want labor, yes, we do. Then let's treat people with respect and allow them some dignity and be able to move freely. You know, monitor them, pay them a fair wage because we're never going to we're not going to have people who are going to want to work a lot of these jobs and it's probably expensive for us to hire Americans to in order to render cows again, tat brought me process, and so I mean I think that we understand that, while there does to be a wilful, ignoring of how much of our economy is on the back of those waivers right away. Didn't Mississippi, take some crazy son. At one point where they were trying to get rid of Alabama, had HBO
six Alabama and that one there they were little toy back for oil and the I love that so tell people about that, because I think people don't recognize that anyone is screaming this we're in California, which the fifth biggest account in the world you know like it's on the backs of lot of those people were clearly that's. A huge part of the economy offers is thriving, so what yeah happen in l, a bamboo sort of policing them these farms in these fields and people were running awake. They refer to gain deported, and now you have all these white farmers being like gonna pick all this fruit in a fruit riding on the vitamin farms just for ceasing to function and then struggling then, ok with you, you know that the law goes away and how do we these bring these folks back right. They had to do a one. Eighty Riah is pretty embarrassing for sure. Now. hey Mexico boy, we did not think it through presenting organ a higher high school kids to like work the fields again,
right I mean I was the last generation of videos. You worked in fields, I details of corn in Indiana and at this was in eighty seven and the translation was happening like School buses would arrive and will be a bunch of US young, white, kids and hillbillies really, and another bus of migrant labour. and then, as the years one another's Jesse, others no white kids on buses not doing that job yeah. They think they make videos on Youtube for current things with translation into. I guess my argument. I try to make, as I wouldn't be cheaper of that, if it's a fiscal,
some people have knowing that the cost of patrolling the border on the stove. What would it be fiscally responsible to try to help in those situations of people weren't feeling the need to leave under threat of violence? You would think yet seems cheaper and we keep cutting aid to these countries. Think this upstart coming. We cut off your anus angle, shit. Now you just destabilize countries even more quickly we're gonna believing in higher numbers yeah, but you also to keep in mind that the border industrial complex is a huge moneymaker, and so these trillions of dollars are getting spent. People are. in their pockets, and so there are people who like to keep the system kind of in place, a way that it is yeah. A lot of people are profiting. Oh yeah, because with the war on drugs has become unpopular, another worn immigrants, detention centres the security. That's that's a huge huge money maker for a lot of people. I ve been threatened at all. You know, like the hate Mail,
a little light. Hate mail, yeah, yeah emphasis, creepy ones are when they write you a physical letter. Oh yeah, yeah. That's a dvd someone write you a letter period at zero like yeah, why wearing view times, how you doing that now, the undocumented migrant project? Do you have friends you want to give a shout out to that, helps you do you know my my team is here: Austin Shipment was our project manager and then Nicole Smith michiganders, former student, my from university Michigan, Unmoved, Ella, yeah work, I'm going to go out and then gave gave canter Angeleno, who was also Michigan student, who moved back later, work on this project with me, so The express goal is a long term anthropological Seti of clandestine migration between Latin American United States. That uses a combination of ethnographic, visual, archaeological and forensic approaches to understand this violent social process. So we touch on the archaeological aspect. What's the forensic aspect, you know trying to understand,
happens to migrants to die out and there is on a desert, because people are dying in the middle of nowhere and we struggle to get a good count on those good. We will recover in the bodies began, the project we didn't know really how long it took for a body to decompose, and so we started running forensic experiments using pigs as proxy for human body. So you know we dressed up in close it migrants at where we put them in different contexts and monitor them with wood trail cameras to see ok, Wendy scavenger show up how quickly do, but do bodies get get ripped apart that kind of stuff. How fast is up, in some instances, under thirty six hours, from fully flesh to completely skeleton scrutinising ripped Barton? Now where a full pig of opaque to underpin pig while thirty six hours so does the do. People know how many people are dying in the desert. We have account, bodies that are recovered by hikers and humanitarian groups, but I think it grossly underestimate the number of actual deaths.
So we were doing an exhibition way. Now a global exhibition called hostile to re. Ninety four that were launched in May and a hundred fifty locations around the globe and its focus on migrant death, and the exhibition is a giant wall Map of Arizona with about thirty, two hundred handwritten too eggs for deceased people. So thirty, two hundred is the working number. By the time we launch and made a party run, thirty four hundred, but That's just for Arizona, and I would add that you could safely double that number. Four just Arizona alone. Oh, my and over twelve hundred of those bodies are on a dinner five, so just fragments of bone I dont know. How are you dress this answer? Yeah, I'm worried about you don't worry. I was really excited and all your accomplishments and now worried about you. You know I used to say the beer helped It really doesn't like you want to do, but it is it's that working after a but you
for us. It's a lot of talk therapy check in with folks, then much of this project and not least of the forensic stuff came out of, I encountered the body of a thirty one year old mother of three from Ecuador, and there isn't a desert twenty twelve, a woman named muddy seller, Zachary PS, surely been deadlocked for five days and it was a decision. A devastating kind of encounter am, and then I ended up forget who she worse, through the help of medical examiner and into signing the cynical, the Collie we centre for human rights. and then I traced her story backed Ecuador. I meet her family, her kids. I got a New York and meet her family there and it's kind of her story that really kind of inspires me to kind of get going and to think ok, you know this is rough work it's emotionally difficult, but at the same time, I'm incredibly privilege to do this. I get paid to do this for a living, and I chose to do this, and so I ve got to find ways for it to be productive and but also to practise kind of self care. But I think I think about her a lot in terms of why this product used to keep going and why have gonna be better at both take
hear myself, but then also making sure that you know that the work is getting out there. Yes, I have to imagine a you're you're in a hostile environment yourself. It's not like you're, going back to the four seasons, hop in the bathtub and auction them. Some, I don't know tour de France or something Why would you watch, but I have no idea. Sometimes you get about Ireland. Is your watch whatever's? Sometimes it's contorted France, but you No you you yourself are in and unforgiving situation and then you're just gonna left with that nightly, and I think that that has to be crazy, challenging them. You know that during the course of project em in another person, my book I read about is this woman myself as fifteen year old cousin, who disappears in the desert and so Anna Spending, all this time of his family and working with parents of people who have lost a son and they have never recovered him.
this project was happening as the Roma tender. My wife gave birth to our first kid and so becoming a dad. During all this. All this really changed my whole perspective on the stuff in it. I think it both made me feel more aware about how I was feeling about the stuff, but then also incredibly, an inspiring to discuss, keep keep going. I was going to ask that yet, having had a child has to have like really good as much as you intellectually understand. Of course, people care about their children's stuff until you have a child and then you a man, John separated from these immediately you're like I'm, so scared for them. They depend on me so much and to be separate. I just can't imagine anything more horrific them so it is. You can know it intellectually, but then you have the emotional component of being able to truly understatement. Gonna pay now would be. I have to imagine it yeah change here
pull experience. I mean the most brutal thing: I've ever in this project. You know what the smuggling project there, I'm writing a book about now by one of the main people. He was murdered by someone right right in the middle of field work and that was so devastating and has been others of its happened. That's been really challenging and been painful, but nothing compared to like interviewing a mom and dad about their son, who has disappeared and ended in the everyday struggles about if there ever gonna know what happened to him. I mean just I mean, and when I give like talks about the book, I'm in a hate giving talks about the first book, because that's kind how it ends- and I always kind of- and the talk with this quote from from the dad talking about you know what lifelike is now in this perpetual state of grief and limbo. Looking for his missing sun and adjust breaks my heart every single time I am not just like from as from an economic perspective yeah. I cannot even begin to imagine what that daily
it is like, and what now with the kids in cages, how many my wife's very involved in this? How many kids are separated? Its thousand thousands riah it? It would appear at least that they had no intention of keeping track of any one. I mean they're, just when you look at what level of attention was given to just keeping track of everyone that doesn't seem that there, has any no- and I don't mean part of his incompetence. Hyena amines federal agencies, just does not kind of thinking into the future is doing stuff kind of willy nilly. But then you know you have to wonder too. If part of the negligence just part this brutality of the system that in place? Do you have any empathy for those people that are doing that job? Because I only mention this because I was watching some special on it and they were following a border patrol officer and he was responding to a call that I think was on the like Rio Grande or something so he's driving on this dirt road, and you just passing people ass. You know person after person, sometimes families.
And they're they're, not gonna window, and they want water? And you start realizing quickly like will this guy can't stop and pick everyone up what he's responding, This call down here and he's gonna pass like six families on the way that he knows the vehicles not gonna hold this many people. What a fuckin too double job like. I can only imagine what mechanisms you have to enact for that not to kill you D past six families on your way to pick up some other things. So did you it is it possible for you to have empathy for the people that are on that side of it? The shirt I mean I've worked with border patrol, often on for many years, and people don't really know that over fifty four.
Innovations are latino until you ve got a lot of people who are sort of struggling with their own identity. In the context of you know, policing people who looked just like them and a lot of agents that I've talked you have set things like. I joined the border patrol after nine eleven, because I wanted to fight terrorism now and unjust, chasing dirt. Farmers from Will Hocker across the desert that wasn't really when I signed up for. I think there are a lot of people who had been sold that I mean that around after two thousand one, the federal government starts conflicting terrorism with immigration, putting the sittings together, and so you have a lot of agents who, I think, really bought into that, and then you know come to find out that you know the would never caught a terrorist come across a southern border ever now on, not one, but you have these agents, who are you not like a lot of them are, are struggling with with these kind of internal conflict them in their summit that I've met, who I thought, we're gonna kill me who were amene gun in my face kind of stuff, just aggressive sorts of people, but there's a lot of other folks that have come to know who are complicated creed of humans mistaken for someone
walking yeah yeah I've had that happen it had people think I was a smuggler yet pulled over various. Where you look way more, like a smuggler ya to me, then a farmer, yeah yeah, if I just had to quickly thin slice and profile you reported Gangbanger sky, loves me out of here this place, this animal Emma's. Thirteen Virginia look at him. Ok now so you're kind of I wonder at some point. Do you foresee, like the archaeology, chicle component, fading away, as you take more of a like policy, advisement Roy or did they always like, I'm wondering how, from when you set out on this project till now how it has evolved and where you see it going, I dont do a lot of policy work because people don't like taking advice and anthropologists. Why not? Because we think we make everything wait to complicate. Look ass, beautiful ass. You have a question like you know. You asked me to Zimbabwe.
in question, and I don't like to give you like I for a forty two bullet point kind of response to this and policy makers are like what doesn't yeah, I need it. I need a headline. Yea go, I'm sorry! I avoid alot of policy stuff, but as a project is about a minute, it really is a lot more about public outreach. I'm committed to training students to to do research on this kind of stuff. You know we're curly transport, a centre at you, see lay that will basically work with first generation college students to do work around these issues and then put them out into the world to do in our various research projects, but then also trying to transact all of that Ford for different public's. So with the new project, that's gonna go live!
globally is the goal to get more people both interested and then also like volunteering. Should people be helping people on the desert like what? What would so this project, the hustle terrain? We send them an exhibition, kid, that's thirty, two hundred toe tags and all the information that needs to go on those tags, and then they have to mobilise. You know a hundred five other people to make these exhibitions, and so for me, there's something that happens rather than going to an exhibition space in seeing a wall of three thousand handwritten toe tags. What happens if we ask you to come and spent half an hour filling up than the names of the dead and that information and then mounting on this wall? We want people to connect with this issue in a kind of more personal way through that that experience here and We hope that its through that and that they will get a difficult to take on this whole thing and then decide what to do without information in but let's say, someone's, listen you right now they're like yeah. I would like to be involved. What are the things that someone could do to help the situation? You know, I think, just getting more educated.
just learning about seventeen. There are organisations that you can support. You can donate to that are doing various kinds of things, but they can vote. You know they can start with a with local level kind of politics, but then also finding ways to support amendment in their community where there is no community in the United States that doesn't have immigrants in it until figuring out waste to support. Folks, I think at that level is maybe what most people can can actually do. Yeah, I'm just now, remembering I hadda allay geography class. Here you see a lot more. They talked about that fifty percent of all second generation Mexicans were middle class and that they are very much like the best embodiment of the american dream. If you look at the data like it's, not at all in any way I'm kind of big drain that its generally works. Yeah. Ok, so you're talking about something that frustrated me ultimately with majoring in Anthropology, I'm so sorry, but I'm gonna say the things
I found at the end of four years to be frustrating was You learned about all these people, you're told this concept of cultural relativity and I definitely see the merits of cultural relativity. Witches you really can't learn about anybody if you start with some judgment or your goal is to make judgment or some more all claim on what's happening, that that cloud, your ability to actually understand what forces are causing sake. Infanticide in innovates right. That's like our most provocative thing. We like to study and intro answer class, but at the end of the whole thing, I thought. Ok, here's this vast knowledge in now what what is the application of it like I understood the purpose, but I have to say at some point, as I know the feeling circumcision now, but you know I understand now all the elements that are leading to this thing. I think I learn I put away my judgment long enough to understand why it's happening, but I can pretty much conclude now. It is most
Johnny. At the end of the day, I was frustrated with the application of anthropology. Is that's? the case, or did I miss, understand how it was applied. Will I think, for a long time, in other words, making knowledge for the sake of making knowledge, and then it just lives in an ivory tower. Gonna thing yet and Anthropology, I think, is making this ship now towards being more public and more engaged and biscuits regulate the world's on fire, where experts in a lot of different things with its immigration race, gender, and why are we not the people on CNN talking about these things? Why are we not? You know that the public voice for these kinds of causes anything people now are starting to really appreciate that a much kind of deeper way you know how do I take my work out of a journal article and put it into some other contact so that people can live should learn something and we will to appreciate what it what it is into politics do, but then also take that knowledge, then in and then go out in and try to make a different, your weapon eyes it in the way and so in some way, yeah
Ok, so now going to ask you a provocative question, I think I'm I'm starting to realize I've overreacted on an issue that makes the rounds in its about universities. I think I m one of these people are private. Overreactions, like apple universities, have gone to shit. You can even you know, have debate now. It has to be one appeal, message, and that's that in my inflating that you have now spent the last ten years, educating at three different colleges, luxury net, you dub, and then you have them, and then now here. Has there been a change since we went to college or is it inflated immunity terms like censorship? Yeah, I've never really experienced it. I mean that the censorship thing, but I think I have experienced the the push back about you know here. Is this liberal brown, professor who's, going on some tirade about politics, Gaga their lobbying oversee Michigan? I top one wanna one course for many years, just four hundred fifty, mostly non majors who taking it for general, add requirement to see boobs. Yes,
photos area in another language and sharp and then there like wasn't he's just shown, videos of like the police, civilian like this is like this is not fine. I mean like this is what the world looks like a lot of students in that class, pushing back and being like this person again on his high horse about politics, and unlike human rights for me, is not a partisan issue. If there are injustice in the world, I want you to understand that ethical, but an interpol. Logically, and so I was getting push back from students there about. You know they just didn't like the flavour of the anti poverty that I was pitching it wasn't it Indiana Jones. You know it was you
David Martin Rye, and that was not sitting well with a lot of folks. So what was your anthropological? Take countries on Martin, we'll just getting people to think about the different kinds of experiences at certain people have about the world and how united, under this show, students like a video with black parents stuck into their kids about the police. You know and as part of this is how culture is learned and shared, and these are conversations and have to happen and in a household about what the world looks like. students just being really uncomfortable at some of that stuff. I came here yet to see boobs and other stuff in, and this is a real. This is a real bummer yeah. Maybe the extended next something yeah, yeah and dynamic. Like I told the beginning like it, that's not what you're gonna get here Rhine, but then there like with I'm stuck. This is a g. it's kind of unease. It's kind of uneasy course gonna shop. Listen to this like rambling, you know left leaning, professor tough shit NEA. Was there any pressure from upstairs? I did students complain and then you are. You were pulled aside said like a light.
Blow that now the ugliest, probably over act in everything's fine discourse is still encouraged and academia and everything's good. I think, for the most part of that makes me feel, rather than a bubble that do so yeah You tell me a barely here right, yeah, that's June, for more lives. Show after this exciting commercial break We are supported by quip makers of the quip electric tooth brush They want you to know that one single discovery that matters most for your dental care. It is simply this that, if you have good habits, you're good, that means brushing for two minutes
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Ok. Now I want to talk to you about something that we probably all right to which is we live a very unique time, pier Where sense, I don't know Ninety five onwards for twenty five years, the archaeological record exist in such detail. Where were uploading every bit of information about our selves onto the internet, it will live forever and I want to hear you thoughts on what a phenomenon that like there's, no mystery anymore. We are seeing a lot of people that are being tried for crimes that happened in nineteen ninety per se, and I think it's really interesting than it used to be let what say that this technology existed in the fifties that this record had been accumulating since the fifth, We would very easily be able to go online and see some gentlemen, probably for drinks in
a hospital smoking, a cigarette put the new born at the back of a car with no, Z belts, and then driving home in you this is alarming what we tend to do, an enterprise. de as we try to look at like oh, what's the culture of that situation, what is the totality of that environment and that error and that time in space? But now we're in this interesting position where we can witness people real time doing things from different areas. We know what culturally right and wrong now we're clear on that, and they were observing people do things that is blatantly terrible today, yet it wasn't terrible Vassar, it's very it now. I will say that I am glad that the internet it wasn't around when we were in call all dreadful, oh yeah, yeah I mean we would be career. I wouldn't be sitting up here. That's right! That's right! I always think about this way. Anything
saying now are doing right now, it's gonna look so stupid in twenty fifty years, and yet so all I can do is try to do the best. I can at this moment and know that I will be judged by three later on, I guess it depends on weight. I mean there's something that I can look back on NGO. Those were the days and then other stuff like that it was problematic than at an inn. problematic now a hundred percent, but the button as now it can be observed, it just couldn't be observed, and now it's like people doing like right now in real time? No, like someone finding a photo of somebody in nineteen. Eighty eight, the very famous case current that just happened recently like someone in black face of me be very clear. I am against black phases. You know you start going Far enough in your like, oh, that was on television. I one point it in popular movies at one point: there's there's all this disturbing stuff that we have to kind of confront that like and I'm just not sure if any of us know where we draw
those lines when there's a there is an archaeological view of churches, like oh, I mind covering stuff in its from a bygone era, but it's the person still alive. That's interesting, but anyway I judge us instances on how does that person reactor right now? I know it was. You know the kind of like shaggy thing that you know there are like there's like sixty year and did not think it might go back. Like wasn't me like. I was right. There are those who go before you ve made it you're all right. You black face. Oh There was a man, but if part of You know our people owning that stuff yeah or they are they in getting really defensive about things that you shouldn't be defensive about should just be like. I'm a fucking idiot, you sorry,
Now, as I started with the punk rock thing, because I do believe that we are kind of drawn to that their there's, some kind of anti establishment, punk Rock vibe Anthropology, I fuckin love, did. Does it ever bogle you that, like here, you and I are sitting where the Vulcan establishment or for I'm forty five year. What forty to forty two you're, a professor at A world renowned college, I'm on tv telling people what dishwashers Dubai. Hope you ll, buys Amazon Weird is that they are completely I'm confronted. The fact of, like god I want to be able to talk to who I was twenty and I know damn well, they went listen now, so it's just a very interesting place to find you
of when you're teaching kids do feel chasm, or do you feel very much like I do like. I still feel like I'm twenty delusion, so I'm totally delusional about high economic. I think that I met my twenties and, of course, my culture references are off I'd like shags area just like like, and then I went even further back without you'll. Be there but can I will say that the one thing about the anthropogenic I'm teaching class right now called anthropology valet. hope. You come in. Yeah. I would like to talk to these kids. You know, I tell them like look. I was a super fuck up. Weirdo and anthropology is tried that relax, weirdos and yeah. I try to go on and on level I can connect with him. In that sense, and I told him you know like ice, the drop out. You know total screw up and all kinds of different ways. So I become really open about my past. I hope is a way to connect with them. Even others
age this age gap yeah, but they can? Maybe they can see themselves a little bit and meet their feet in the future at that's what I want them to be able to see, and then I definitely see myself in a lot of those students yeah now to me like when I went This'Ll piss off a lot of students here currently, but When I went it was thirty. Eight hundred bucks for the year Are they live on campus thirty, eight hundred bucks? Isn't it just getting so on a train, double for everyone, but it does seem that the line is going on. This right is what what's the end and how does it get wrangled as an as an archaeologist who studies migration? Please tell me how to draw up the price of a college to wish- and I think, but you know some incisions are committed to financial aid to getting you know. They recognise the students they want to get, can afford it and so they're trying to find ways to do that, and then there are the students who will pay all this money that they can.
oftentimes, feel something that other programs I have oscillation. What's yours alone has I went to school in Georgia and there was Yes, I was waiting for some class schools are usually labour anyone's grove of does hope. Scholarship programme there that is paid for by the state lottery. So if you have a certain GPA or over you get free to issue, which is what I got even though your parents were loaded, Now, even that, even yes, said, states can start doing programs like that to make college cheaper people? Ok? Well, I guess my last curiosity is if I didn't get as lucky as I got not to do this thing. I love comedy chatting to people in all this wonderful stuff
really the out the only other lifestyle I totally fantasize about, as yours like, I think, just never leaving the world back. Amy sounds heavenly eye of his never happier than just coming here for days a week in having someone explain something to me like I was five, I loved. It is the job what you had thought it was gonna, be is it better is worse in it was worse. Yet I may just fell in that. pause only means one thing: post tenure, you know a different kind of work. You know, so you become involved just involved a lot more service we're gonna, Ph D and e mail may well what I read spend a lot of my time doing, but at the same time we know the flexibility I can say whatever the hell I want my can get money to go to some new place and think about some new idea here. I love that and I love working with students in a really mentoring students. Sing them develop for me is a super.
Filling thing yeah I mean. There's migration issues everywhere right all over the globe. Is there anything it you're doing here that is applicable to other areas? And is there any kind of synthesis between the other problem areas in the work you're doing both for the show hustle terrain. Ninety four, you know were in a hundred fifty locations around the globe and we're doing a whole bunch of shows in the Mediterranean, in Europe and Africa, and working with refugees and migrants in those locations to build a Wall Map of Arizona debts as a way to kind of stand in solidarity with migrants around the globe, and so we're we're trying to find ways to branch out so that we're connecting with it with this issue, could it mean for me, America? We tend to think about immigration as, like our problem kind of thing you and it's gonna to the global crisis- is only getting worse and we need to see that that all
so that's happening in climate change as a driving force in migration. That's happening in Latin America and Africa also like water sources, are outward Renault, more extreme weather, so typhoons hurricanes, we're starting to see increases in these like climate catastrophes that then for people to have two out migrate, amusement for decades our hurt Hurricane Mitch in Honduras, devastates Honduras in the late and they will have to out migrate to the United States and its only happening now and on a higher level. Yeah. Well, look it's mine blowing to me that you ve become a really valued man, or of our society truthfully I'm sure on some level you think the same about me, down the motorcycle before we go to you, wanna regale them other motorcycle experience at the there's one the championship. Ninety two thousand two thousand
we were celebrating dangerously Dax life's likes to drive fast all the time. We decide, let's do some motorcyclists yeah down Santa Monica Boulevard, like three o clock in the morning sure I remember like we're going to ninety miles, a hundred miles, an hour obeying the posters Villona yeah, we're we're animal recital. I remember this covers whispering in here like single, any faster challenge accepted and so copses us, like. Oh shit, the cut behind us Don't worry! I know exactly where we are. I know long beach like the back of a hand, wherever arena downright again go. Did they go right and another left. So we're like down these alleys and its coppice chasing us and then
my God, it's bizarre, get away rail years. There's your limitations on this type of thing only twenty years and we turned the corner where I think we're gonna like be free, unclear, and just a garage door, and so we we slow down and crash, throw them like right. Scooby do behind give behind the boy and so we go beyond this? Bush were hiding minus giant Bush and, of course, the bushes. Only like three feet does it can see Dax its head over the bush? I'm hunched downward both have these helmets and this cop pulls up. It puts lightness and he's just like on his microphone like I can see you by the bushes. I can come out from behind the bushes, and so we like kind What come over by the bushes and this cop is like the fuck you guys do index goes officer I didn't know how fast I was going to a total mistake,
I drive for a living. Some my license is really important. You know I never do it again and I turn to this cup and I said: look the Lakers haven't wanted ambient and nineteen they want to and we are celebrating a really carried away and so on and the guy looks innocence like you, because you're fucking Did you get on your busted bike and go home, and so we there? Why are we here don't do awaited by did Jason does Jason early on I'm so impressed with what you dedicated here. You and I think you're up. Also you did it. You see, I beg you guys so much.
I said it when I did the commencement speech, but I started crying while I was trying to say it's all the times it again here, there's nothing in my life. I feel prouder about than having gone to the school. So thank now. My favorite part of the show the fact check with my soul maiden mama got bad men did you were doing. your collar, Joe CALL, your job call of jobs. No, you young, I am there, was before my time fulfil. It goes, and junior high jewel hit the scene and, like all the cafe and twice the sugar. some have already like declaration in the bright That was a cell. I know things have changed, people were like, while I'm another, that this whole energy drink thing seems to be the same thing like too much energy that share that nobody wants. Go now like you'd know, not gray. True, lose all the sugar and twice the kid
also they did. They did a dual dance with Hay Google. What was jolts, COLA's slogan August, hunger and twice they caffeine. Allow is so nice when she's looking for Yes, it is a feels great is so clear. Today, though, she really is that just like that, she's having an affair with a microphone year with a fair, they can be having a real earlier there in a committed release. The other commit it. They are, although I mean that same microphone place fatty cake with you all the time about, I'm not interested in that microphone. So is all plutonic yeah, that's right! I would never encroach on No no. She saw defense was like high packs and the ideas
Have I sound her, I would feel sad one or you could she saw defenceless poker girl. Google. Are you defenceless how I can't tell me a story, ah I like that she was too proud of you. Now Jason daily on this think about. When answering about him. He has an accent over one of the letters and his name in the Leon part like maybe over the ear. The ok- and I was there- we are, how do people do? How do you put an accent on things when you're texting or now, if you hold down the ladder well on iphones Lung Anima. How Samsung were then woman? If you, hold down the ladder, all of them pop up and you can go now. I remember while on the letters that have them like an e p, p Are there some letters that you can put an accent I mean? What's he like,
boy. You maybe we have never seen a fucking accent on a w here, there's nothing when I click doubly or em. Look at e look up pops up when I do eat smorgasbord many ok moving I learned open another memory lane Marie you absolutely fine. I love you guys were fuck ups and now you're not, That is why, in my view, would take away as well is like yeah. If there had been a hole in the middle of class, they really. These too are gonna, make it like even the graduation, much less its inspiring. I can't put too fine a point on how much he drank in college. Oh yeah. I think he drank more than I did what he said and I think he was like laughing but also seemed Syria through, like I can't be around, you
no, no! No! Well! I think you would. I never said that there were moments. Words like I can't go with you guys at the bar like I can be friends, but I can't, although there is very little recreational activity with him when we're friends had been involved drinking so either probably was yet, and I just thought is weird. As I said on stage, it was weird. He had zero concern about a year and then in an improved to be an issue for him yeah there's some people are added guts right, even though, like if you just looked at his consumption, you probably would have concluded that it was an attic. I don't think he was well. This is come up in our lives with people around ass. I think I think there is a distinction between somebody who's in an adequate and has truly no control over sir.
Buddy, who is choosing to be added control there and they might choose that a lot of days and so from the outside? It looks the same, but they still are in thrall of it. You know you and I dont think you are no. No. No. No Now that is any one drink. The playbook is out the window in idea had approve it to myself over a thousand times. I known smart enough to have a good enough fuckin plan. I'm gonna have to drink sitting in a stand up and leave there, and just could not do even someone is not an attic staff can be hard once you're in it breaks, you have a different brain work. This is something else happening having fun. We are from a low, bigots, diminish their ability to weigh the future versus the presence, is kids diminish. Yeah. Can I tell you something? I don't know if you will, but when you are
HO surgery All- and I was with you for a couple days during that time. So I was the one who is in charge of administering your medicine. He giving you you're painkiller yeah and It was the first time I real Lee saw. Let me know like at two o clock on the dot. Yeah you'd be like ok, it's time and we'd be doing step, would be like watching tv or in the middle of a cow. Perception you were occupied, but you are always thinking about it. Oh yes, yes like arms and die I was scared me. in many ways, because guys about it all the time and meetings like you have surgery in any pain pills in the consistent kind of Croatia is like it. Probably
without them in many ways cuz. You are so preoccupied with her or I am so preoccupied with it, which is why I don't get the medicine in you or cursing at the medicine it there's no enjoyment of it because you're just like, I can't have the amount I want, which is all of them. So it's almost whatever whatever pain its trading, which it does coupled with this, Zaire about not being able to do it, the way you want to so that its own pain in it's almost probably neutral. You think in your head. Now I just thought This is so real You think I mean I already. There were a few other instances in life that I had that thought about you and just about addiction in general and in some moments like that,
I know I'm not yeah yeah. I don't have that. I dont have this thing. This preoccupation, yes with substances, and so even though I like alcohol but its, it doesn't control me you're, not someplace we're gonna go somewhere else. Your first thought isn't: is there more alcohol there now in my I wouldn't even leave a place that had alcohol. Unless I knew where we're going was gonna have the same amount would never do it may be. Is the first thing I think about not like oh that'll be fine over there or this or that issues like will they have all their yeah? It's it's. I mean, I guess, that's a little bit of an already drinking. Let's. I was at a bar sending out a couple of weeks and I was liking it villain and then I want
to we were going to like Rhine and Amy's. I might be like you, we get wine on the way I am. I would have some element of that again. the line is so blurry as to when it transitions into a true, absurd shops. The obsession and problem you're the times. I've had pain killers in sobriety. There is no moment in that, where I'm not thinking about the painkillers, even talking you and I'm super distracted by something, I'm way more conscious of like when the next one's coming than anything else, see him This doesn't it's scary and I think that if other people around attics, it's scary, Ling, moon, very real fear. They you carry you and, and it's sort of back to the episode talked about earlier, where you know last week or whenever the laptop, so we did about drinking around attics or smoking run, acts or whatever I think part of it is. Why would you do that because all
already your living with fear that that person is going to wreck their life and yours, but there is an you care about their life, so much the audits and its can be intense. I'm trying to think of my report. I need with some of that scared me, like I've gone in rye, written motorcycles with people, and it scares me and I don't enjoy riding with them, some nervous they're going to crash and die, and so I can't I don't want to do it and it's scary I think I have ever partied with anywhere else like this person's gonna die. I dont give had that feeling ever ok, so you said a whole thing about Pacific Islanders Rollo. I am that the people that got to Tom Guns, Samoa had road from. I said the Philippines because it was convenient, but I think it was Malaysia's. What I really like
right, but then they set in the moment that wasn't true some a shout about now. Someone do yeah, but- and I couldn't find more happy that there was just a total look puzzlement on Jason's face whose approach sir and anthropologists. It wasn't like he's like no that's wrong it's. This is always a spur leave like. Oh, I don't think he knows if it was something that everyone in either party he would definitely now you don't be on whatever class I was talking about migration, migrating populations whatever I know about their love in Latin America, need how these law, I mean he's been in all the classes, media, not here, and why how their tongues got their care bathing having no varies, probably better than made up there, and what am I gonna? Maybe I learn that using a dismayed that I think you're confuse the. I think there can be. No eight thousand percent still believe what I look
I owe you can find it out. You'd have to explain why there inordinately larger than everyone else in another way, aren't find out in come. Bring it old textbook in return. Ok does make me think of. We talked about the thought. Experiment was a woman losing the tremendous, no. But while people were mad at me for Nixon because Nixon to knock at impeached, ochre broken and I had he did ride so
He did resign. I knew he resigned, but I bet he resigned after he got impeached before he got convicted by the sun. Correct really it was before. Ok, what we clear that, over that's clear, o gaze, had Californians a fifth biggest economy in the world. It's the sixth goes mayor. Seti said that elderly in itself, just Elway was the sixth biggest California covering the whole of worlds. Fifth, art is a country that was CBS News. Two thousand eight teen this one that pops up, which is on Wikipedia Economy of California, the commune for India is the largest in the United States, boasting of if California, where a sovereign nation, two thousand twenty, so that's knew it would rank as the world's six largest economy ahead of the UK behind it says here
so some conflicting information spin, the real egg, three big big economy, bigger, really big, I'm proud of it me too. That's all those. It yeah, not very many facts with dear old Jason, interesting cozier, I was doing expert yeah. I now us away works with these experts, but I love what he's doing me too, he was really cool. The I mean I was aware of what he was doing. I was not aware of how dark it is a clear set of trying to figure out what identity of this dead body, children and the whole thing I mean errands for missing children and the whole endeavours just suffering. That's what he studying. He studying the suffering of millions of people who are that's rough. It is on that. I'm by somebody does a year tat always feel like visiting somewhere in the hospital. The nurses I'm like, oh my god, the job. It's
there's so much poop and p, and blind is that they will make a mess of those beds, and they have like this great attitude in their fuckin doing I'm always overwhelm was like what a job. I am sincerely grateful her people that are up for that. Do you think they can learn that mentality are near born fuck man, I mean I would really need to be put food on the table for my kids to work there in, like a geriatric facility amused dealing with other humans. Pooh is rough. I just so grateful some people are up fora. I agree, I add some people don't seem to care Charlie's little. That way. My sister like zero in social issues, zip popping video people really like those, but that's like I'm doing they getting a weird satisfaction. King yeah,
because the same as like the poop and cleaning ochre GNP the three peace terrible imbue. all right. Why I love you and I loved you Billy, I'm so happy that he's so successful in in educating young minds what a great person to do that. Now that you are in love, you buy