Nadia Bolz-Weber is an author, Lutheran minister and public theologian. Nadia chats with the Armchair Expert to have a discussion on one of life's most challenging topics: religion. Nadia discusses the evolution of her faith, the beauty of grace and unconventional tradition. Dax wonders how she, as a femininst, can reconcile the lack of females in the church and Nadia talks about the danger of promise rings. The two talk about sobriety, community vs. faith and whether Jesus is the son of God.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome other arm, chair expert experts on expert on deck, Shepherd hello, Monica Badman, Shepherd you're in a stunning orange Toda head, Guy guy add my nails match: yeah, be oranges. Color, I know purple color orange boy. Does it make the skin pop pop pop? Thank you now listen upon popular request. We were urged to have a religious person on too you know, there are different side? Yes, because often I'm spewing, my atheistic, take on bangs nihilistic terrible view of life, while in there's no one there d rebuttal about what the Christians feel like, so we were urged to find someone in naughty was suggested to Us M by George. Lover yeah. She was awesome naughty. A Weber is three Times New York Times best selling author alive. Foreign minister in public, theologian, she's
nor deigned, Lutheran, pastor, founder of House for all centres and scenes in Denver, Colorado or books are shameless, a sexual reformation, accidental saints finding God and all the wrong people and past tricks, the cranky beauty, faith of a sinner in Saint naughtiest podcast is called. The confessional and it features ugly confessions from beautiful people. She is all kinds of fun, and we love talking to her. It was a very clear conversation so different than our normal one, zero was it was fantastic, so please enjoy Nada bolts wherever we are supported by square now you might know Square is that little white reader, but square has a lot more tools that can help businesses, especially now that businesses are having to figure out when and how to safely reopen and make things work in this new normal. But businesses are stepping up to the challenge. Like
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I was just getting my cause box in the mouth. The ship it right to your door for free and opening is like opening a huge bundle of gifts, joined the movement of women who care about the brands they support in the products they use. Get this for yourself or for someone. You love, as I did go check out, cause box. That see a? U s e b o acts cause box before their fall boxes, sell out at Cause box, dot com slashed acts in use, kodaks to get twenty percent off your first box. I can tell you first hand: you're gonna love it he's. First of all, I just want to thank you, for when our part gas ethic you mentioned like on one of the opposite. You want to talk to someone and religion and then a shit tunnel. People tag me on instruments, they're like talk to yeah
people who are not religious, I'm their religion, person set like Miguel light of an entire religion release. I am very proud of my atheist readership. That's my shiny though trophy are young, and I quote some of this stuff. I saw you speak on and in learning about you, their views incredibly profound and transcends all that stuff, but it really came up because I'm an outspoken atheists lots of our lives nerves are a religious and many of them have said you know it be cool of eventually, when you said that shit, someone had a response which I totally agree with. So I guess I just one the clear to you what my intention is checked, which is I'm not the type of aid, Is that once anyone to stop believing in God Monica? I have a couple of really close friends that I can see Jesus in their life. I am not denying it way. I can see that for them it's it's really really cool. If I have a single
terrier motive. It's really just to find out how you navigate certain areas of it that that would be very hard for me to navigate fresher dozens fund. Ok Dracula, also I equally, I'm not the kind of Christian who people wanted come to me and explain why they don't go to church and I'm like, oh god, I'm so sorry. I care like. I had half baked, I dont have a dog on that site at all. You don't get a year and bonus with them. Even when I was a pairs pastor, you know I found interesting what people believed in my parish, but I didn't feel responsible for what they believe at all like what you believe has to do with a million things. I have nothing to do as well. Maybe we could start with what I interpret his similarities between you and I in that work were both scumbag attic, alcoholics, yeah
beyond arriving that could make us closer than anything. Could maybe I people gloves yeah, I'm definitely a garbage person. You you're twenty eight years sober this year. Yeah can gradually added so impressive between my boyfriend and I think we have him not so created the math, but he also has, I think he has twenty nine years Why there's? Okay, so that less than fifty seven fifty seven cumulative years, lad you'd think we'd be more mature. If you do the math you're, like wow you're in the if dimension right, I'm like Joseph now still a garbage. Firstly, why is it might try to explain to people like? Oh, it is fixed nothing. My first thought is still when my daughter's crying like fuckin ay, I gotta get, and I got to step over all my shitting news and then I get to the point where I go stand up and go looking than I do it, but that's all it taught me to stand up and go. Look. It didn't near heat me from being self centered. India will. Let me
friend said we really suffer from a disease called first thought wrong, all things out of the door. I might go further and go like first, second and third, for me, I'm like progress as I go: half how they exist, others, the right answer I mean even after the programme sobriety therapy. I do any agreement on a few and personality stuff, even after all that my first reaction to almost everything is fuck you now I am. Never stay there, but I pretty much always start there at the time that that illapses between starting their in going somewhere in responding from a different place, a shorter yeah. But yet I didn't get a personality transplant. I'm still have the same wiring we interviewed bill gates on Tuesday,
he always warms up for me to achieve higher. To going to talk to him, I had to have like a real long lecture with myself, which is like this is not your opportunity to try to prove to him you're smart and get his approval. That is not what this is about. Like you got to enter this lie. He so much more than you get off. That thought. Just don't do that, so it ended up in my bedroom and I actually have this moment where I go on really proud of myself. I stayed humble and I didn't do the thing I was afraid
I wonder, who will win a p body for that interfere and then ice already ass, Lillian hysterically, because I'm like look at you, man, you're gonna, complementing yourself on your humility and then literally you now, you think maybe you'll want to anybody, and I shared that than the next night. At a meeting I was like a gift, is I laughed out louder, I'm eating, whereas thirteen years ago I would have planned that Peabody for good to your acceptance speech what you're gonna, where I'm mad at totally exactly so my equivalent is one of my closest friends. Her name was Rachel held Evan. She died well over a year ago and she is also a writer and speaker in progressive christian circles and a dear friend we started a conference. We ran for years together during the Obama administration when she announced that sea was invited to the White House prayer breakfast. My very first thought was: why wasn't I invited to the White House poorer breakfast much? My second thought was who the fuck thinks that a person like wireless
I voted for the White I laughed at myself, so fast yeah. I love that we have that in common and then just to give people a kind of a brief history of of your life million people love you, which they all reached out. So most people notice but you're from Colorado. You had some addiction, you got sober. You became an author, you are three times near its best seller and then you, you end up becoming a loose foreign minister and you, you found it calls for all centres in Saint is a congregation of evangelical Lutheran church in number. So how do you get getting sobered. It said to occupy that role, size race, for fundamentalist Christian, like Canada dude, all sectarian, we went to church three times week women were allowed to pray outlawed in front a man couldn't preach, couldn't be ushers even the whole thing about women, not having authority over man was taken so seriously that when we turn twice
if our Sunday school teachers were always women up until that point, and then we had a man is the Sunday school teacher, because, twelve year old boy We had more authority than grown. Women in the church, Oh my gosh, while and we were the only Christians like. We really believe that only Christians and so people below his shoe Stacy, a Christian and I'd have to be like no she's about us, and so is that kind of deal. But it's all I knew and of course you don't know your childhoods crazy till you meet other people and then your like. Oh that's, on normal. I laughed fat when I was probably sixty. Ten years old and I couldn't have any to do with Christianity. I hated at last got really personal cordially. Ask me anything wrong that preceded the departure care had some trauma that I had nothing to do with the church. I was just a really sick kid.
Auto immune disorder, cause my eyes to bulge out you'd, see white all around the Iris, my eyelids couldn't close. So my lies or bulged out of my face- and I couldn't have surgery time is like sixteenth, not grave does it is alright, idiotic, ok, but kids don't get graves disease, so it went undiagnosed for a long time at all this area nation, and when I get to high school, the only p, all who seem to in any way think I was cool over the gay boys like they loved me, what happened was when there is a difference between I am told- is true or what I'm told to believe it. True and what I experience to be a true there's, a problem. Tall homosexuality is an abomination and that you know all this up and then I go to high school and they thought I was fabulous and it was my first experience of people thinking I was cool or even wanting to hang out with me, and it was
love right. These boys loved me and I loved them, and so what I was experiencing to be true was very different than what I thought was true. And Mamma a pretty much go with my experience. If that happens, also, I was told, you know women had to couldn't have a thing, the ever man, but I'm like but hold on. Why am I smarter than my mail Sunday school teacher that do not like riots stuck just didn't work, so I've laughed and I hate it- I didn't know any other form of Christianity existed, and I just thought
was damaging and irrational. Fundamentalism is something that is hard to leave, but it's hard to leave him more than one way, because it gives you really do illicit thinking they get out. I actually this like there's good and bad right and wrong. Black and white people are saved their lost forces you to be a complete mental eyes or because it has been confronted with reality in your learning another thing and then you're just really getting good at having multiple personalities virtually right. You have to pretend These are true when your experiencing them not to be true, it's easier to leave. Fundamentalists church than it is to leave the thinking it gave you and Oh! I ended up becoming this super hard core leftist activists, but with really this same kind of thing. Either you're down with the cause ear. I mean I was involved in this like crazy, armed land Rights battle in northern New Mexico up it was just it was not alarmed land about ok, but it was the same entirely and
in a way- and so I've had so much distance from it. Now that when I'd oppression, or maybe five six years ago, say who was just coming out of fundamentalism and which we get so triggered an angry every time she saw something from one of her christian friends on Facebook, like one of their stupid means she just get. She could get so Is that not if you don't seem angry about it anymore because winded, you know you were free from and I realize I was free from it when I could look back on my religious upbringing and not view Dualistic Lee when I could allow myself to admit there were being the things about my upbringing and that didn't feel like a betrayal of the of me that the shitty things hurt yeah yeah yeah. Then I was free. That's when I left fun boy you're here your striking on such a larger issue, which is just sign, airy thinking, verses, nuance in gray and light
is almost ninety nine percent nuance in great abolish it harder for us to understand me. We think categorically and yet we just want to put things in the right category. All the time which really is a matter of survival like you're wrong, look at a plant and your like is that dinner or as a poison right, you could be a leg. Is it a shade of places may be partially dinner? I couldn't go. It is its ill aside and its point and its grey exile. So that was sword my journey, so it happened was when I got sober I help hearing like you, gotta. Do the God thing the prayer thing like that's how it works? I realized I didn't really ever stop believing in God ever that didn't go way. The who, time. I still loved Jesus. I just couldn't stand the church, and so I think that the theme
logical, non specificity of the twelve steps is what allowed me to find a theological specificity that met me where my experience was. If that makes a soldier I discovered Luther Anthea Knowledge is really different than other christian theology cause it's based in paradox. It's not based in that dualistic thinking. It's based by holding really difficult things intention together. So a eulogy or something here? So I was kind of dip in my turn back into Christianity, but in this or social justice, oriented kind of liberal, Lutheran Amazon, so I'm going to church and that a good friend of mine, p J more, I was also doing stand up just cause. I couldn't
therapy- and so I just thought I'd rather makes thirty dollars. You know I m, seeing as it is currently Ferguson working I set out that way shower. I had. I was part of this home group, this twelve step group that my friend Pga. He was a comic and he remember that group and we really good friend, and you know, struggled Allah with mental illness issues and he can. I lost the battle universe. He ended up dying by suicide and when died all of our friends, this kind of turned to me in there like. Well, you can do funeral right. I haven't been to seminary. I was just literally the only religious person in my friend group, so they assumed you could do it and size like. I guess so. I gave his eulogy and it was at the comedy works in downtown Dunbar, packed house, and I just looked at it at the crowd- is like com,
makes you were really trying did not show any emotion cause. It's like you know. Social Darwinism runs very deep in the green room down. You know. Academics and recovery, colleagues and queers- and I just look out at the sea of people- there there- and I might. These were not church folks grain and they don't have a plan stir and then I was like a shit. I think that here that's supposed to pay me home It really was the sleigh. These people need somebody to pastor them and then, when I thought oh, I think that's me set me on my path, so we like my like so called like call to ministry- was not generic. I wanted to be a pastor to my people and then what was the education and youth then took on
Well, I ain't getting a degree in religion from sea bolder and then I have a masters of divinity from Isle of school theology. Zero process, though, whereby you get fuller life foreigners, it signals intensive. You have to have a greater degree in theology and then you have to work is like the hospital chaplain for awhile. To do here of in turn shared, and then there is a body of people, this committee, that's walking with you the whole time in each point they decide do get to go to the next point. Nine. So it's it's not the easiest thing, and so when people are like, oh, I we're deign to universal life. Could you know I did my friends what egg I'm like a night? Do you know how many years of education and training and like a group that report another group of millions of people has like check me all the way, and I have a bishop- and you know apostolic
succession. The bishop laid hands on me. You know all this stuff yard a credit card transition. Now, if you want to see them as comparable knock yourself out, but I feel like you're asking a lot of me to see you were watching game of thrones. While you went through the ice you and you didn't miss any of the plot is o o it's interesting in I'm just now, I'm catching Helpin. So stupid, I didn't think it is, but Lutheran isn't is Martin Luther right and he led the big right break away from Catholicism media so much Charles for all centres, and since then I started our church, goes like a piece of parchment with a nail at the top like ninety five theses on the door, the Wittenberg church, and so we use F shirt that that had that on the
on the back. It said: radical Protestants, kneeling shit, the church door since fifteen seventeen less than that was our shared sure. Ok, so I watched a video of yours today that you read this passage in its about these emperors, basically, in than you started thinking in terms of what those people really feel when that was written, what were they experiencing an you any so what their experiencing was basically oppression from these these people, these monarchs and you ask your own parishioners what things they felt oppressive, they are subjugated by in an overwhelmingly. It was depression and anxiety in these different things, and then you go on to say in this gave me chills. You said these guys Pontius Pilate and whoever rouse only remembered because they are a foot to a man named Jesus who hung out with fishermen and sex workers
and that's why they're remembered their a footnote to someone more important in your anxiety is a footnote to your life in your bosses, a footnote to your life, and I got chills and I'm getting them now. Look my goose ma. Am I got a fucking? Kick ass interpretation yeah that in so I immediately was like that's kind of my introduction to what you think in how you are approaching this whole thing. Now: here's where I'm confused so to me, you're waiting through so much stuff to pull out what is good about it as you did, find something that so inspiring and so beautiful, but man you had to pull it out of that tax and I'll also argue you had to ignore so much of the tax in getting to the things that you would want. Other people to emulate
so my question is: why aren't there among the many like minded people like you white? Why would it be impossible for you to get together and amend the fucking constitution? You guys have wished that we had a constitution and it had slavery in it, and you know it at some point. We said slavery is bullshit and we amended the constitution. We didn't leave it in there and just go. Oh skip that Are we amended it? Why don't you guys get together in import? What's great of book and find some consensus in just ditch all that, the massage any that the slave Russia Fisher Homophobia, the patriarchal bernardino. You know, there's so much stuff irate help here. Now, my that's not an ox! Well, Thomas Jefferson did that doesn't! now you just literally just cut all this shit out. He didn't like there's the Thomas Jefferson Bible, yeah. Ok, so I do know that yeah, that's not an unheard of instinct, but Also the thing about the by was it like the world's most fucked up family album right. So, ok
We could say uncle lustre, the molester weed one in there anymore, but if we do that we no, what to look for in the next generation rate of me to say hey, there's all that shit in there. All that is just the disaster of human behaviour and greed, and tread right, so I dont want to forget it. Kind of like in the psalms, their songs that are beautiful and praising God for the leviathan. The sea monsters like it's all good. It's off. You know beautiful but then there are psalms words like I want to bash, enemies, babies, heads against the stones, you know, and people like they're, so violent. I'm, like Yemen, even never thought of violent thing like it. That's not somehow part of Europe God so to me. It's a bow. This incredible breadth,
human experience when it comes to ourselves and to trying to understand the divine and it doesn't mean that all of its good, a lot of it, is absolutely garbage by gears like something that the constitution in the Bible have in common is the way people leverage to their own advantage and pretend that's not what they're doing so. Constitutional situational, originally sewer like hey? It's not me. This is just what the founders wanted. This is what the people who drafted the institution intended itself saw my interpretation like. Oh, it just happens to benefit the category of citizen. You are that's uh yeah! in coincidence. Jury. Show me a black female jurist whose accounts nutritional original list that sort of thing same with the Bible you, the people, do the same exact thing in my upbringing there are like hey this not about us, the preaching who teaching us.
And teaching us to behave a certain way to go to christian charm class. You can tell that fuckin worked. Charm charmingly bog, their staying pay- it's not us! This is God's will in there like so go. Make me a burger rights either the reason I'm still in the game. The reason I won't leave you. Because scripture liturgy theology, these things are waiting to potent to be in the hands of people who only use them to justify their dominant over another group of people. Yes, in look, I'm very very grateful that you're a voice in Christianity for that exact reason. But let me try to transport something more current. That, I would say arguably sounds a similar defence is the civil war generals that are, you know decorating
many town squares across Amerika. I feel like the argument you're making as a little similar to those people saying well. If we get rid of those statues we're getting rid of her history, to which I would argue, no, what we ve done is stop celebrating them, they're, not gonna, be absent from the or chronicles in. Similarly, I would say to you that book is worship. It's not if the book is into history of western civilization. It is a religious text that people read before bed and they read to their children and their children. To teach into our in, so I'm a little nervous that it's not in the context that I would prefer it to be. Like you look at all the narrowness of human is look at all the budget are patriarchy, look at the right, but say using your analogy. It's to say: look we're not going to inscribe the bash. He babies heads against the stones psalm on a plaque and then have that normal square. Ok, you're, not gonna, take it out of the book just like we're, not gonna, take what they confessed.
Bessie was about out of the textbooks right arrived and remove that, but we're not going worship it in your right use. The right word, people, worship, the Bible and there's a there's. A thief Logical turn for that. It's called idolatry because the bibles, not God well yeah, backup, the another three our conversation with you and I then there is the notion that a man wrote it and they are man is. Is that the duck the man who wrote it is recalling what he learned in a nine our seminar, you couldn't put twenty five people in a room, give em a half hour speech, get him out of the room, have em, write it down and get anything above- twenty percent accuracy, sir, of course its own concerning issue. But I do think that there is something inspired too, but that doesn't mean God. You know how, presidents to sign their name. They have that little machine that does it does the things I oh yeah, there's a way that you you can have your autograph with a pen and it does. I oh yeah he's been mechanized NEA
ok, there's a fancy word for it. I don't know it it as by its not that kind of transcription system its people struggling with their experience, of themselves and their ideas of God and inspiration all at the same time, So it's always gonna be a mix of those things and to me again as the Lutheran I just have a different view of the Bible than most christian steer, because that term, like the word of God, Raw TED Lutherans, that term means Jesus, that's the word of God is Jesus there. Prologue to John said in the beginning was the word in the word was with God in the word. Was god- and the word was made flashing dwelt among us so to Lutherans, like that's the word of God, it's a person that we can read about talk about reach about sing about, like that's the word now? Secondly, the word of God as any kind of
preaching or music or whatever that tells that story, and then only. Thirdly, in a tertiary sense, it's the text, and so Martin Luther said the bibles, the cradle that holds Christ the cradle. The crisis that I mean this is where I forget her confuse, so they can use the wrapping in the gift you now ride. So to me anything in there that talks about grace forgiveness and all the stuff that that whole Jesus thing was about. That has more gravity that has more thought. Than anything else in the Bible and then anything that comes close to that that mess it has more authority. Now, the farther out you get from that message, the less authority at house in in farther out. Does that mean in time and space like no no terms, but that message is if they're like? Well, what do you do with the first? That says that if a man lays with another man should be stoned to death, I'm so sorry, I don't have a horse and that raise lake.
I don't have to like stand up for some shit. That's way out here, you're here to them. The central message yeah. I already have my answer you do believe, that's relevant and has value, and it should be in there either, despite the fact that you're not going to make that part of one of your speeches, it's a bummer to me that it still is weapon eyes by a big sector of the the country is He'll is version there proof that they can stand on why marriage between two men will ruin Mary, because they have this, extends camouflaged for their own hang ups, that's all it is totally so that they were. You got you bombs from this. This method, I would argue, tat in some way that difficult to articulate its because there's something in that book that when you- do the work and you dig there's like something:
transcendent it's an endless reservoir of meaning and transformation that can be found in it that you're, not gonna, beat find on Operas book club, less state Furthermore, arm chair, if you dare. We are supported by rain. There's a thousand reasons. Why protecting your home matters to you, but there's some hidden reasons. People might not even think of tat. This was literally last night. I hear a bunch of footsteps on the deck
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Did you find it awful? Always? It's always helpful because you get locked into your own story on your own reality in which is so helpful to have an objective outsider. The guide you through these tough times, you should join the one million people taking charge of their mental health with the help of inexperienced, better health. Professional. Better help is an affordable option in armchairs. Get ten percent off your first month with the discount kodaks get started today at better help, dot com, Slash Dax, that's better help, hd lp dot com, Slash DE acts why I had a guest on Vietnam plead. You know that I know my I've been unjust pike as a matter of fact, hi! It's me right here is still from the simpsons. Oh, that an episode he wrote in one of my books is on the table. Accidental say it's by not, however, is on the table
that's an I love him and he did make a great point when I brought up what is the story where they, God wants the man the killers, Son Isaac and Ireland you know I'm glad. I got that right, the odds either Greece Gimme a minute. We were headed out upon every man, but he made a vow stellar point, which is you know your feelings aside. You and I are talking about net story, two thousand years old see you got at least respect those states power of it which, which I totally do that clearly there's some magic there I would say because it's true now hear me out The reason we are still tell These stories is because the stories are true. Now. Here's something the enlightenment stole from us is the ability to distinguish between fact
in truth. So, if somebody says do you think it is a fact that Jesus was born of a virgin like a medical fact, I'm like a hawk? Is it that's unknowable. Is it true its absolute her I'll go any further than I did like yeah like to me. That sounds a little bit like I do recognise their our emotional truths that are less often in opposition to empirical facts erect. Neither in a big part of our life is is emotional spiritual, so it has to be given the same weight. That's why they did that. I guess it kind of what I'm saying is that there is truth to these stories, there's a spiritual truth to them and when people, get hung up on, but is that is it verifiable factually true we weren't, even thinking about food, viable factual truth until about twenty minutes ago and humanity right. You know that scientific method and human reason, and all that shit, that the enlightenment I'm a fan of penicillin like I'm not saying it was bad for us, but I
Saying Charles Taylor said it. The enlightenment gave with one hand and stole with the other side things that it took from us and so Fundamentalism did not exist before the enlightenment. Fundamentalism is literally a reaction to the enlightenment right. Are you Antonia, enlightenment? No. I think that there are things that it gave in things that took away because now, after the, if we have a way of understanding reality like scientific, the scientific method, verifiable facts, things like this now that human reason- an elevated in that way, then these other things that we know are true in terms of religion now, in order for us to still think their true. We have to believe their fact in the same way that I do a literal, seven day, creation thing: creationism yeah! That's that's this weird mix of like the lighten telling us there's only
one way to understand. What's true, ah, but they were when we say that what's true is subjective, verses what's factual is objective, not request. I don't know I haven't answer for that. That is a really question. I deserve a few thoughts in order to lay them out correctly. I was I want to write em down this morning. Self. There's one thing I thought you think the blind eye we turned towards the gnarly parts of the Bible is easy. For us to do better. As we ve been conditioned through having parents who are deeply flawed and may have heard us, but who we love deeply think our willingness to accept this massaging, as the existing phobic scientifically inaccurate, geologically impossible text is sad in that it sad we ve been trained to accept that, as we desire the love of our Father or God that much isn't this one big use of relationship. Should we reject the law
of someone who would ask us to kill our son to prove our law, then commitment to him. Isn't that pathological ok, there's a lie There's a lot in there. I guess my question of that story is less like what kind of God is it that would? this and more. What is it within humans that makes us believe that God ass this of us. So there is a truth to be found in the story for me, but it's not the one. I think I was taught yeah. It's been explained to me in defence of that story. Is that will guide, didn't, kill his son and that when he proved his love and devotion, to God. Of course, God would never let him kill a son and he it, but I'm not very satiated with that answer that still a very vain God who wants to test your love and is clearly shown, there's conditions to his love rate
and that is so similar to two are flawed parents? We all have in another right. I feel the same way about me and I just get worried that like condition to ignore what we know like you were saying you. You know that the reality is not meeting up with what you're being taught, and I think sadly, work the condition to be that way. Do you Dave Jabber God on Twitter. God. Yes, he show on Broadway that was called gosh. It was basically God offers new new commitments like he has so jolly ever aren't the idea. I saw your eyes off so one of the most brilliant there's a term called exit. Jesus was just where you take attacks in the Bible and you just dig. The shit out of like you kind of go. What is this, What is that you look for it? What's the interpretation you ve got a town with, could it mean this? Could it mean that, and he is an atheist- I mean I've hung out with the duties that eighty us, but he had to me.
The most astounding interpretation ex approach to this Isaac story. Isaac can Abraham story out of her member but he goes one of the commandments was thou shalt not see. to have a personal relationship with me Bob angelic goals are all about them. Personal relationship. I Adagio HIV. Also one of the new commitments don't seek that outbreak in various, whereas vows he goes. Here's why it's for your own good, because I had a personal relationship with one if you once in a brought out the worst in me, so in the text perhaps has a very particular relationship with God. There were just close tat. They were just there were brows. At the very outset, look at in Dave's interpretation, God in the play is saying. Does trying to have a personal relationship with me. It brought out the worst in me because I really was close to the sky Abraham. So watch so that I said
I want to give you your hearts desire and what Abraham and Sarah want a more than anything in the world was to have a son Sarah was old. They were old right there were like it's never gonna happen and an angel comes and says no you're descendants are going to fill the land and Sarah last scores she's, like I got a dusty ass womb, there's no that's a door of all, but not a horse, and then they had the sign, Isaac right and so imagine if you're, elderly and you think it's never going to happen. You have this like precious sign in so gods. Like yeah, I had a close relationship and he any because what do you want? Because I want to sign- and I gave him, then you want him where they think the world and he loved that son. So much tat. I started thinking, does he loved some more than you Smee and I did a super fucked up there.
And I just didn't like do you love this time? Will you killed the sun for me right? It was genius telling of the story, but to me stories in the Bible. Tell us about ourselves and if we're lucky get a glimpse of some kind of truth about the divine as well. Ok in your mind, because again- and I am not saying this in a patronising weight to me since I dont believe that the man's Jesus crystals was act the Son of God. I recognise there was a man here and by that name who serve as a history. I acknowledge that yet, but because I dont believe he was divine- and I know you, but then I do recognize that you also are going to concede that the earth was probably not made in seven days. Where are you on the part? Where is the God? You worship that vein that he make a mistake, as he all knowing an omnipotent, but yet also got jealous of a child he created by the goddess. I handed us drive me not. Ok, let's see what
Can I do to set this straight in so godlike? I think I'll just make my a manifest inside rapidly dividing cells inside the womb of an insignificant palestinian girl. Now the first century, who's not married and I'll, see how they do with like forever this is, how I want to be known, as you know, as like a completely powerless phone orrible homeless infant that has no place in our society at all, like absolutely marginalized, and gods like this is forever how I want to be, I don't know, that's a debt yea in that. If there were a garden, the God chose to send his son down, and he put him in that
position and it would be very admirable. That's what I would hope that I'm not big enough to do that. I have children made money and I can tell you I'm not going to help them in their older, but I'm gonna fuck and help them in their older. I'm not big enough to do that, I'm to humans and let them suffer. I actually don't dig the whole son of God thing. You don't Jesus is just got your scares. The thing is: when people start talking about Jesus like he's gods, little boy, if it gets it gets, gets very just having to me because it's like God, is divine child abusers, then stories, like God had a little boy. He only had fun we don't fertility issues, not sure God has little boy and he loved that little boys so much. But you know what he had to do cause you masturbated. He had Let nobody nobody in the world
die, because I put my mom's underwear when you're far been used to feel really bad matter. Of fact, you should feel so bad about the fact that you caused God to kill. little boy. He loved so much that you're good. this is the whole year you go to your local christianity. God is divine. Child abuse are trying to make you feel bad so that your act, good yeah I require now. It's also technically heresy owed to say that he's the Son of God is harrassing not to use that term. But
We should leave people mostly in an american evangelical Christianity, if you say God, they think God, the Father, radio, dude in the sky, all the power, long beard, ya, capricious killer surveillance system, Robert Grilling, exactly occasion, that's what they think, then there's just a couple: a kind of minor supporting characters, Jesus in the Holy Spirit who are less important. Well, that's heresy. areas are not related to the racist thing. You know it like the fourth century. It was ruled heretical, so at the Council of NICE ear when they came up with this sort of formula for this is what Christians believe they were like. It was all about who is Christ. End like it was all about the trinitarian thing He also to them there like to Jesus. Is God Grant is These things at the same time now talk about like paradox and not dualistic, thinking that God is like relationship, while my
favorite me, I'm sure you ve seen it is a pitcher of Jesus. Praying of using this one is Jean us pray and it says God, can you hear me, it's me you I don't like trinitarian theology is a bit of a mental pretzel, but I like it because it keep thus from getting to pride full about knowing exactly what the diviners like, like I kind of like the fact that it super puzzles me. I in fact you know in my judge, it's not to say that I'm judgment less of Christians again, I am truly in support of any one. That's finding any peace in harmony and in better meant through that IP truly the arrogance fly gets waved. When did they know Didn't you could understand this thing? Total I need, a God who is maybe slightly more mysterious and nimble and powerful than my a bit
led to understand God: yeah yeah, a graveyard, heirlooms yeah yeah, that's an aping! It's like Meta God, that's big enough to solve my problems because I can but the trinitarian thing also it's kind of like baseball like if base, honest to God, we're like one inch farther apart, they'd, never score. and if the bases were like one and closer to explore all the time it would be even more boring. So I think of that where's like trinitarian theology, this idea of these three beings in relationship three ideas are three pieces of wisdom or truths or whatever in relationship. is balanced in that way. So, anyway, most I would say technically most Christians in America, heretics yeah, ok, so I what I'm having a hard time differentiating is, when you read in your interpreting these stories in your finding the humanity, take a ways and how its reflecting
we do on earth. What is the difference between what you're doing and unlike how we read the Bible, the same way where we don't believe in but we're still taking it as a what's a nice word than fable, but like these are lessons. These are lessons beautiful, reaching Yasser there's definite step to be learned, whether you're an atheist or you believe- and I guess for me, the people who are strong believers believed that taxed and it seems like you interpret the tax. So I I don't know what is the difference between week? You are doing what we're doing you believe, Jesus. But what does that mean? What do you believe he does review or is real the gay believe he real he mostly
It's me better parking spaces. How I got it, I would I brightening every once you get a gold card status. It goes with the parking yeah VIP, although I I don't know, I that's a really good question, because I do believe this stuff, like I'm down like I believe in the mirror, calls for, I believe, all crazy shit. Now, it's very hard for me to like defend why. I believe it because its say right, I never understood how do you defend Faye writer? It's not. It's never appealed to meet
even try here the inside just get back to lake. The fact that I dont really care like when I was in my parents. I didn't care what my persons believed, but I care deeply what they heard. Yet they heard from me. I was responsible for what they heard and for me, their point of gravity to the whole thing is grace. That's the central point of the whole deal if its, if its anything other- grace and mercy and forgiveness. Then I don't think it's actually Christian while, and I want to say anyone that words are here of Jesus is literal life and who we chose spend time with and what the message was. He said that we know for sure I can't imagine, there's a human on earth, it would have jack to his lifestyle in his message of forgiveness in his message of love and his message of inclusion. There's no question that that
sin was a sit Arthur a bill Buddha are using one of these inland nervy, enlightened human means that have been here may or may not a human being, but there's no pushed back for me or, Monica right. I can't imagine anyone on the message the teachings, the Spirit of Jesus. You know I'm where's Europe on that now. Ok, I ain't up speaking addle alot of events that aren't christian events. So am I like it such an insufferable term, but thought leader gas our shared feminist. other aims and well in this conference all this nonsense Christian right there like bringing the token one we can handle were guilty about, like I can talk of those persons it's? So people come up to me again,
and they told me their stories about hey. I was raised Catholic, but my mom Devora finally divorced with my abusive dad, and then they wouldn't give her community more. So I can't have anything to do with the church I left or You know I was raised. Method is, but you know the pastor was embezzling money and I really looked up to him and I was like. I can't hear you. I know what I'm going to do with it. Not once have somebody come up to me. Well, you know I was raised Christian, but then I just one day I just realized that Jesus Guy just doesn't have much to offer once again, so what I ve realized is that people don't leave christianity, because they stop leaving in the teachings of Jesus people leave Christianity because they believe in the teaching of Jesus so much they can't stomach being part of an institution that claims to be about that and clearly isn't yeah yeah yeah. I agree. I then I just wanna take one second to bond with you, some being adversarial, but I also want to balance because
you're my own life. I have an experience you're describing which is I enjoy. Reading critiques of HIV people have sent me lots of scholarly, shirts, eager of aid and there it does fit the definition of a call, there's stuff. I can't deny about it right and then for me comes down to like all of that could be true, but It happens to be the thing that saved my life and I had tried nearly every other thing. So, regardless of what academic resistance to aid is, I can we go on the fact that had saved my life and then I also did things that I don't do that I dont believe in. Active doing those things I don't believe in is actually just at an act of humility, which I greatly needed and also I current solved the problem of my own and there's some magic in there, and I don't know that I can put it in the text. You know soda something that I'm not even threaten when people hate on. I am I gonna do man about. If I were you, it would look like Scientology enemies in great, but for me I'm
here because of it. So I will tell you, I think, the big book ahead, some kind of divine inspiration. I do. But let me tell you: I am in favour of amending that book. They need to get rid of some of the language they need to make it. In my opinion, less christian I mean they're they're, saying, oh, my god of your understanding, but it is still very christian. Leaning in my opinion. I do We should amend that bothersome massage interesting stuff. There do not to the wives there's stuff. we could we could do better, we can. We could take the same message and we could do better. Let me give you an example. I say I'm in a hurry right, I'm not to do that, but I also understand that I'm doing it in twenty twenty. Law, was written? for a hay in nineteen fifty six and when there are three dozen people and like one of them goes hey, I got sober, nay and then six monthly.
Their drinking the impact of a when one of thirty six people, it's not working for yes, very different. So I'm like you, I'm trying to find what is the real intention of that in the intention of that tradition of being anonymous at the level of present? In whatever the end, engine is no person should become the symbol of ay ay? I should be the face of ay ay and then, when I fail that shouldn't be an indictment of eight, and so I say I'm in a because I'm ok with some people be mad at me to get the twenty I've people that listen to show that then found themselves in a meaning. I'll live, I believe that may be lived for old timers on passing off, I mean this speech. The thing or the letter of the thing. Yes, it's the same, dealing with Sure I mean Jesus had some harsh things to say about divorce rate. Well at the time. it truly was a really radical way to protect women, because
at the time. If a man could just issue a letter of divorce. if you wanted to, and it's not like she could go back to teaching. none of that's a death, that's right, so a thing that was intended to be ass, a protection of vulnerable. How is a weapon ized against people in the church? By telling your mom, who left her abuse of husband? She can have community framework as she got to force. Are you fucking kidding me right? Aviators, Adrian evacuated Alley home of the intention and an cried fully so right, then they have just filled with pride about well, you know it we're we're walking the narrow path and it's not popular, no you're, not popular, does you're an asshole don't confused. Now every population of people had deities, they ve had a creation story. There's nothing unique. We all do this right in a ton of very valid now scientific evidence for the
illusionary benefit of us believe. In God, it allowed us to gathering groups of large numbers allowed us to trust other people. of leaving the same God, I know you're a friend. It was rewarded heavily through evolution to believe, in God, church social cohesion in yeah. It curbed peoples, evil desires because there were rules capture and now You you're a theologians, so you look at the judeo christian tradition. You know we know it. from Mesopotamia that area? We know that that area was between the tigers from the Euphrates. We know that that area flooded all the time and when it flooded it was apocalyptic. It wasn't like a flood we deal with. It was life ending you compare it to a religion that is cropping up at the exact same time in Egypt, where they live on a fertile crescent everything's.
Equitable they're not losing crops, there's no famine, sir they're! God is far less of a fearmongering god that needs constant appeasement, constant arid of worship in. So what do you do with that info? Someone like you: where were you can recognize? Like? Oh, the environment, we can predict what kind of religion the people will create and does it make you question, while I'm using a religion that was created in a world that was very and secure in an hour, I live in a world its insecure. Is this the best fit anymore? I do find it interesting, but I think always it's gonna be human beings struggling with what it means to live together, what it means to live on this planet, how we understand transcendent, it's always gonna, be a variety of those things. No to me it's interesting because
it- tells us so much about ourselves and when I think in four politically about religion, which I only do a lot, it's because human beings have always been religious, like religion has fashioned itself in endless variety, every place, every culture, Every time because As there are certain I would argue theirs, it just needs in the human being yeah that have all. He's been mad through religion and again not to talk shit about the enlightenment by. The danger is gonna, write you a letter, but it gave us a lot it didn't removed the needs that were met through religion, so This is one of the things I see is. Why do my work is because I'm interested in what are the needs that aren't getting mad because people aren't going to church in instead of saying how can I get them go to church or how can I make church more sexy and appealing I'm just out there
in my work thinking this meets our religious need and people. Yet so I dont care, They intellectually assent to the same theological propositions. I do it doesn't matter you just want to provide comfort and safety and community. I swear. I started my podcast the confessional, because I've been part of two different communities that practice some form of compassion right, twelve star beyond the Lutheran charge and when people are my church they data veil them solves private confession and absolution with some regularity and it was always a honour yard, but often super- worrying, because I wasn't buying like that those they do so tansy suddenly, like nothing. First,
but I'm super unimpressed with yours. Then forgiveness is for everyone, so you might go out and try harder to make making worthy underwrite sags where's that you be some shame this. Why this one girls, her confession, was something really. It was busy with some really real and she was so tense at the beginning and then afterwards she was like relax. We're laughing. You know broke the tension. Goes passer not here. I just want to say that I am so glad that you're, my pastor, could I just know you ve done a lot worse than I say it's like a little service, its us thus I offer, but no, That's a function of religion, but most people aren't religious. Now I wanted to create a place where people could talk about stuff. That's HANS then you know again and then at and of every episode I write a bennydeck.
And just for them. I write an original blessing that I recorded the end and so again, where do you really leave a blessing that was a function that was a priestly she and where'd it. Do we subsume like in the great lakes, where go to receive a blessing. So I'm writing blessings. our people- and so I guess, I see myself as like a public pastor in that way. I just It is a sort of like snuck into the cathedral and grabbed the most you're too for stuff and put it in put it out on the lawn with a free sine die. I think it's a wonderful night see the value, your adding two tons of people's lives. That's very clear to me state I'm sure you dare we are supported by Chrysler Pacifica the Vet.
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When I was talking to my wife before I came here, I had written out a few things and I thought I know better than to just big, so I ran by her some of my thoughts and but she really like the parent analogy right in his funny. When you have kids, you see you see how we we train them and in it starts with Santa Claus, and it's like, becomes its huge fucking cannot Germany are apparent for me who values honesty above all things. That was the thing I was missing with adults in me, when I was a kid and and I got. Ok, there's this guy comes down the chimney: Red Sue lives, nor policies, everyone by robot and I can see on this three year olds face that doesn't mean sense right and I see the debt as part of her punching holes through that
I find myself craving more lies to get her to believe that will how does he get everywhere all will he can kind of stopped? I'm right so he's doing this for a long long, but for us it's only eight hours at night, but for him it's like God, knows how long and while I'm doing that cuz the first child, we did it for a while until there was so many lies. I was like now there's a fucking elf on the shelf and if you touch the elf, then you're going to hell or he won't come back or he's got to go in on my god. So I quickly thought. Oh, this is a This is a little thing that we can start telling. People do not listen to their intuition into ignore the best part of our brain, the critical part, punching opening or non over just forget those in just believe it its presence coming and there's heaven coming and I the parallels and I'm like, oh, that we start them on Santa Claus Cuz, it's so immediately appealing, but then the transitioned into oh yeah. There's this guy he's his daddy's a sun above eyes, born to a virgin. You ve got a hard wired them just ignore all that critical thinking and go with it for this all
the prize it. My wife told me when I was laying aside. She said the thing you're ignoring is the emotional aspect of this. Then you have to recognise that a lot of people like me, great anxiety? You're not everyone's like you, like so self assured and you're not fearful of this, and that a lot of people want a add or they want a mother. They want someone above them that can comfort. with the anxiety that so many of us deal with just living on this planet in these cities, in the way that we weren't designed a live that you can't take that comfort away from people. So I recognise that in she's dead right and I'm glad she pointed it out into me- I would argue- I get that from community. I get there If you look at people's needs right, it's like fresh air, its water, its food and shelter in it's fucking acceptance is its as important. You'll die without it, but does it or whether or not the magic of church is
community in the acceptance. I pointed out that we had a bunch of people over yesterday there was a mass cohesion. Everyone was getting along. It was so wonder, voice it did you have any anxiety during that period is acknowledged in it. I go because you were in a group. you're in a community always good, you are safe. Can't we get all that felt the father. I think people do. I think that there's a brilliant book by Dave's all called secular society which is based you're saying luck. Religion just makes you feel bad about yourself like one everything to do with that, but in there look. He argues instead of the hammering on about how much time you're spending at church so that you can feel good. You talk about how much time you spend the gym, so you can- defy your existence. You know yeah now, rather than only thinking clean thoughts were only eat,
clean food. We just we just substituted like purity systems than we congratulate ourselves from getting away from religious, even totally agree with no original sin thing I do think exists in all of us, like we are so prone to that guilt and the feeling of toxicity and needing cleanse for sure, and so, where do we find me? You can find that in, like a really deeply deeply who did mythological system sacred tax, certain liturgies practices, one of the rules since I do like church and imo liturgical person, so I gotta I've. I like really deeply traditional church, I didn't I dont like article thank you, we law yards, what does literary so have you ever been to like it Catholic MA, O Yarn Episcopal Service, that's a liturgical service, so it's a liturgy, so your singing
The carrier and now you're gonna, do the Lord's prayer and and there's ritual to in and parts of it that are unchanged, and so it House Ralston risen. Since it was very liturgical, we used very traditional worship. We did gregorian, chant, setting idol of Gmos? I love them, but it wasn't conventional. So we did it told in the round, you'd led by a drag queen. Thoughts like it was a conventional, but it was traditional, and so I really drawn to that myself and the yes and is, is because that the liturgy has been sort of warned smooth by generations of people before me and contains wisdom, the practices they're paying their joy in it somehow because it's been duns for so long in that way, and so the litter She because of that, has and integrity of its own, and what in? Why? That's him
to me, as it doesn't demand my integrity in order for it to be efficacious, that's meaningful to me, and so if you're kind of just make up your own thing and taken a little from this and reading a little too Han and then taking a hot yoga. Clarity there's nothing wrong with that, but I think when half measures avail there's nothing. I saying that I am not saying there's something, but I think when people are like spiritual, not religion, I think what they mean as like. I have curious a set of beliefs and practices in my life that give me a sense of well being yeah. Yeah, that's fine! I mean there's nothing along with that thing, I do wonder about it, though, is if, if Thatcher Approach, are you going to cure aid? The asked acts that say, hey, think about giving way ten percent of your income- calm, oh by the way, also pray for your enemies in forgive people and
invite people to your home that are easier uncomfortable, whether what I would like is it going to include shit like unless it afflicts the comfortable uncovered the afflict it might make, you feel well, but it's not probably going to transform you. I agree with you becoming self actualize through these three or four different things may work for some people and am also nervous those things that you pointed out that I think you know being a cohesive member of a group can give you or help you find tat. I had do asked the question that started this whole so the whole reason I was ranting and the whole reason people suggested. I talk to you- and I think rightly so, is you are a feminist self. The issue I raised is, I was sitting in a meeting in their happened. There was at a chart, saw there was looking at all these different religious stuff right now. looking around. I the last supper right, I'm looking at this differently, I'm going it's like Jesus is a dude parcels are all: do God doesn't
wife. There's no woman involved that the only woman is it is verging on. She couldn't be accepted. If she hadn't been a virgin and then the other one is is Mary Magdalen she is of the sex. Workers is announced or not. I got this wrong last time as well. Now Mary Nathan was thus export all hope she was conscious. Conflated in the text with other women, so she did have seven demons cast out of her, so she did have been of a rough story by all who were the sector you your referencing, that he harmless there's lots of luggage does not very Magdalen. Ok, so I'm looking around at all this stuff. In again, I don't have the knowledge of the Bible that I should even be speaking on it, but my understanding of it is basically I was just thinking if I was a woman. This is ideal go to women sitting in a classroom where you look up on the wall and its Abraham, Lincoln UNAIDS, George Washington, in its Thomas Edison, is like. Where is your place in this like to me that there is such an indictment of how patriarchal history as is? Is there is no
As for you, how does a young girl sitting that classroom in aspire when there's no one there representing her I just got very critical of the religion is just like who stay here is the female euro. And then I said that- and I got all these responses from people understandably so who are defending their faith? Will you know now But this woman she was awesome binding. They listed five or six women, but I've never fuckin heard of them. You know, maybe they now. Maybe they encounter like hundreds in that I, as everyone will be. It would be crazy to ignore the walks sightedness of that book in the religion in general that the women I dont know why. My daughter would want to join that religion and neighbouring. I could answer that so well, fuck them very much of the official it's written from a male perspective. It's mostly male characters, but, for instance, who was nearing Ireland. There was one
person who has chosen to witness the resurrection and told to go and tell everyone else about it. That's Mary, Magdal, all gas. She was tall, go tell she's she's the apostle to the apostles. None of this it would exist if she had not done you're. The most impressive thing was the resurrection right. The. I would say that water, your wine I'd rather be other rise from the dead than have wine Well now, but you know I love or the why another thing about when we're talking about like something factors. Well, what do you believe? The enlightenment all that stuff is that a lot of liberal Christians who don't really believe in the resurrection like they're like no it. It was that his God kind business was so complete that even after he died it felt like he was still with them.
you know they do this thing where they're like now cassettes too silly to believe in something so anti scientific criteria. I like, I totally believe in the buyer, partly Fritz horrific, and the reason is because the body is pretty important throughout the whole story. I dont want to end with it suddenly being an idea you know the idea that gods, the human body, and then God takes on a human body and then his last but he's like this bread is my body like eat it like it. So Stir Bingley Physical got in like a super redemptive way for me that I don't wanna at the the story for the body to just now be feeling or an idea. I like that. easy thing about Resurrect Jyar, keep I'm totally keeping a moment in six ends where you realize Bruce will, as has been dead the whole time, and without that turn. That's by and I get why
seems super crazy to believe that at Yale by Fine, I'm fine with that. I guess I'm more, I'm not fine with the lack of females in their religion, I'm not I don't know how everyone addresses that, where is that? Not I agree with you, but we have the option of going forward. Changing that, including and put the pictures on the wall and putting in this. There's room are GB and they all these people that deserve to be up there. Sure you don't even have that option. To my knowledge, you couldn't really decorated church with all these women that are set symbols of power. I dont know how you fix it with that. We already have a set of characters right yeah I mean that there are a lot more than people talk about in the Bible, lakes. There's an awesome one year. Ale was this woman in the old testament and judges where, They were at war and there was like the captain of the army and they were trying to win the battle in so she kind of like tells the cap
the army, she seeks in his tent. She was they hey, come in here and because work stumbles, Ehrlich, Stephen Idiot, and then she puts at ten stake through his head. Why is why? Is it soon? The stained glass window- there's you holding this day, do you may get effort in your conversation to to shine a light on the women? It's actually an ethic. I mean I haven't ethics of theirs. Sat of assign tax. It's called the legendary so every Sunday there's a set of assign tax there's a hebrew bible. Usually piss off a song. A gospel reading that are assigned for the day. So I haven't ethic is a preacher. If there's female imagery, I use it. If there is a female in the text I preach on her, so I may I actively makes the choice of the epistle a couple weeks ago. I posed
a sermon, a video. My sermons, like eight minutes nobody's ever complained, are very sorry. I just posted Paul is talking about. We know that that the creation has been groaning in labour pains right. It's this beauty all image of labour so thats what I preach, I mean you have to look for it, but but there, sir, much there. That's been so readily ignore yeah. even Spirit is, is a female word, so I'll. I almost always refer to the Holy Spirit. Is she who I like now my question and its of ins about accountability, a both good and bad accountability. Said, we have some people in our lives that are very religious in their view following the model of a people and our live there by fire. We leaps and bounds in some times. I look at our friend and I think it is not fair that she giving
Jesus all the credit for her good ass when she is the beautiful person in it. I m sure Jesus have been plays a role, but all the credit. given away- and I don't really think that's fair and I think it happens on the tale side of the coin to where it's like. Well, this was to be, and you know I think sometimes Babylon go. I want you to forget ingratitude your person, the core, and I just this idea of accountability, and especially in the good things about you like you, should all knows how little more and well, I guess I never say like it. If there is good and me it's not its Jesus. I get up, but I say it's mine. experience with gods, terrible mercy. So I wouldn't say it's like Jesus this character from thousands of years ago somehow has made me a good person. I would say I have experienced grace when I didn't deserve it.
so often in my life that there's, something in me that shifts when that happened. So it there. I didn't muster it up, I saw right now that, There is something spiritual too, because I M kind of a garbage like like, left to my own devices, enacting the self generating goodness and she thought the there has to be a lot of other things put inside in order for the goodness to come out it's there, but in order for it to be activated, it comes out in those ways so graces lake The thing I end up just talking about you, don't hear a lot of conversations about Greece and cause. It's like basically offensive the idea that you would get something good that you didn't as the opposition, our yeah, it's You guys like it's. It's kindness, in spite of someone's actions which
like Grandma's in Spiraea aspirational place. You could be, you can't earn their that's the weird thing in our society to get something beautiful. Not only you didn't earn, but you can't earn that's just counter intuitive to us, but I describe grace as like graces like this freight train that delivers into my life, all of the most beautiful, transformative on herbal thing, yeah see and they here's where I'm totally relating view causes These were like a has. Given me children and all this stuff. That's me, like so you think you're virtue could earned the right to eat a perfect peach in summer, and there is another thing that is grey: the fact that the sun comes up every every day? My virtue can't pull that fucker. there's so much grace around us here and we seem completely obsessed with whose good enough whose worthy
What are you earning? I need the whole debate right now about like well what if people are made? king that six hundred dollars that's more than they are at their job. They're, not gonna, get back to work. I'm like the problem is there under pay, not the fact that they finally have a living way. Here. It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, you're, right, you're right. The last book I wrote was about sex and Christianity. I mean it was like a complete lake. Let's rework all these texts that have been I against people here and in their nets. That's shameless section from his aimless. Have you ever heard of purity ring? Ah this is what my favorite things you ve done. Please please tells him That is so. I interviewed people for a year and a half and just said hey, what message did you received from the church about like sex in the body gender and then how did that message effect you and then how have you Navid did your adult life and there were so many stories about being given
purity owning it by your father. May I add daddy daughter, dance like it. He comes with flowers, Oh it's so creeping anyway by way of dealing with hearing all these stories was, you know, there's a thing in Eliza about it's on the United Nations Statue outside the United Nations. It says that we will be our swords into ploughshares and our spears into pruning hooks right? So it's this idea taking that which was weapon eyes against us in making the choice to transform it into something that could heal, die right and so with, mind. I'd instigated this art project. Where I invited women to mail me, their purity rings the melted into a sculpture of a vagina, and then I gave in glorious Gloria on stage at a feminist conference
now. That's when we read about her allowed to my daughter's. So what is this dance in your church like about premarital sex, but all that about not having sex before marriage. When we were agrarian in a long talk here before we were industrial post, industrial right answer you the kind of know who owned. Why who was gonna inherit? Why there was no reliable birth control, and so in a way you could see how they're like you- and I should probably keep that shit inside marriage this economically. It makes a lot more sense and Mary, happened about forty minutes after puberty, Ya'Ll yeah, you know these, yet they weren't, like I note that they want the rose, is six years of being horny emitting PETE. bars in saying no right is exactly as very very dear
I mean I try me they can make a case in the book for part of our spiritual wellness is sexual flourishing, and what does that look like, and how do we be honest with ourselves is what that looks like an ice? seeing it as like that may sound, I have to say it without its own in Conakry, but, like I wanted to know my parishioners, are they haven't? Goods are core like who? How is not like a sort of spiritual concern, because I was married to some very good man. who who had never deserve for me to say anything about about him, could truly he's he's amazing, father, great and but we had a son. This marriage- and we had no intimacy at all- and I know it's like to have that part of me completely shut down and at what cost? And that's what made me right this book, because when I got together with Erika I'm with now, we ve been together for years,
but we ve been together a couple weeks when I had to go on to her to support the UK in the german version of one of my book. So I was on the road for three weeks and we just had the music sex, I had that drives bow, and it was- and I was like this- is so good oh yeah, I helped drive out like my heart- was less shut off from other people from the world from myself and all the stuff was stirring in me, and I was walking through London, I was I can you get on like Skype right now? negotiation, and I said why do you feel like the church has tried to control sex for so long and he's not christian and without scheme? Beating goes. I just assume that the church saw sexes its competition. I guess yeah yeah yeah I and I was like oh I'm right starts out. I'm right now is the moment
it was an interesting thing to explore. I got some travel housing and his egg. Is you have bonuses right being officially associated with the Van Jellicoe Lutheran church? You have bosses right. I have that fish yeah. So do you ever get in trouble now the ten he's one of the best men I've ever known in my life- and I mean he's known me for years before he was my bishop in he believed in me, and my voice when I was like, trying to piece together a college degree in my thirty, so he's incredible. Actually I was doing on being that Christa Tippit shown in years ago, maybe six years ago, in someone's, like will you like your super independent maybe have an issue with authority. Do your own thing right now: go yeah, fair enough, because but you're in a system under authority kind like you ass oh yeah. He goes like you have a bishop and I said yeah, and he goes just tell us how you ve navigated, that- and I was like are you kidding I'm why we have bishops
like somebody like me, should probably have a Bitch but somebody should be looking over my soul like system on the other. We agree. I address you taken these people into a field of poppies. Also, you think there's not a lot of people, Joe problems with an intelligent charismatic person starting a turtle exact I've gone wrong. I out ninety percent of the time core rag. That's why you say this is that one of the differences you know ever Angela goals that I've bishops, so if you have charisma, people are like, you have the anointing go and lead these p buyer by an arena exactly and then there soon charm that that ensued from that. So he will actually asked me like how sure soul his your ego just like destroy. Do because your career? How are you like? I'm glad I have someone looking over my shoulder now. His colleagues across the country were not so happy so yeah
and the american conservative website, you know, wrote some fake news stories about these feminist pastor, naughty apples. Weber says pornography is ethical, like the ash because I was like. I don't think we should just keep heaping on shame that people are like when people feel bad about the fact that there are turned on by porno. Maybe they have a little better compulsive behaviour about it. Why in the world, would you heap shame on them that seems like the last pastoral response, already, probably partly a response to shame it yeah, oh my god You take the shame part out of the equation the compulsive of it really lessons should years all right we'll knotty? I really really like you. I really do hope I get to go to a meeting with you next time were in Denver, I'd love to go with you in person by or weak you gotta check.
Ok, I'll go to church on data gathered are better more George basic Madman. Well, that's that's why I also people get a little upset with me when I'm speaking a turn of events and I'll be like. Let's be honest, there are people who are speaking honestly about their lives connecting to God into one another more frequently. in our church basement our church sanctuary is let us also a isn't having committee meetings like how can we get more members are not scared of their institutional demise in the way the church is is just so incredible by day is just like. How is there they leaderless organization that is somehow thrive for seventy some years. It's the only that's the magic, in my opinion, that beautiful, because it insists on maintaining suspicion of all people. Hey, I get back yoga, that's right! Well,
thanks. So much for your time, and I really do want to talk to you again down the road so next time you write a book or some please come on here and tell us about it. I'd love it so they decide how the average growth rate and now my favorite part of the show, the back check with my soul, mate. Monaco Batman whenever there is a problem. around the adventure Bay. My and her tea com and save the day mine occur. Monica be they around thirty three year old Monica. Why how they were gone. Was your voice the present you got so far. You don't say mine, we'll. I haven't gotten. Yes, we can't, we don't have to counter that should be looked at picture. I was so excited for it. You got me a treadmill, brilliant Red Moliere,
and I ve been really can take the handles on or off like the part, so it could just be flag. Is stoves stood ass, stone, stairs of still feeling its goal that you can do it under? Woe is me and her son that anywhere wonders Thinking about you, editing and like walking on the treadmill, as you add it, you can be at a desk. He asked what I need to look at it again. You think it's too much business to be doing editing now. I think it gray, you could maybe just bang out like an hour of brisk walking you you won't even notice, you did it's so cool and I've been won I'm so bad. I was out on a limb, you'd never expressed desire, but I thought you liked to jog, and sometimes it's just too hot order inconvenient either. they went first, are very low. Meantime decade probably, and I was- there's no way I can have one of my Heart mean where, when I put it and that's been there,
huge issue this whole time, and now it's there it was totally slide on your table, its the billion I and put a rug, over it on your table. Glancing at your table right now. Imagine it so there, our arms you can put on it owe you Do they lay flat? Next to it, then use crank em up when you want to have some support for I'm selling excited tat. She may favour how about your lease framework present, we ve done what the present you didn't like you hated and the person who gave it to you. Just what are you give you far he gave me hair play only that was well, it was the only thing I asked for any did give it to me, but
he doesn't know how to do it. So he just shook my head. A law is about a girl from like long hair. I still appreciate that he tried year, even Russia, business of speaking ever mean I'm afraid to tell the world about in case they steal my idea, but I have a business bench that I'm gonna start Which is a hare play studio, bow hair play studio, yeah. I think that's genius, you ve got these immigrants and allay check that are doing much worse jobs than here. I e the foot. Massages use your doing people's gnarly as feed. They been Leyla himself in a bucket of water beforehand. Yeah I had to get rid of this smell or whatever, but I can imagine that group of people that's currently doing foot massage would weigh rather do air play well yes and no ray you're on your hands easier on your hands, but you're your head, Kendrick role,
some people's heads are gross yeah scams. There's vermin lies our guys gave me that to this place. If you have some cavies or a wise and wonder, avoid more people got there, you could put him under what what would look like one of those old fashioned hairdressers at the Hare swans, but the women would the add, when your curlers new permanent in their before that the dome over their area. If good retrofit one of those with a big bird Have you realize that we shall all the vermin, oh, maybe get in those Harry's I'll bring that in as a part of it, and thus putting you to be here washing as part of it too, finance appeal as good right. Young exert pneumonia driver hair quickly like an ahead Erle yours, it takes a while. If you took a shower, I'm guessing two hours ago in your hair, soaking wet right yeah. I guess
kings work out, but anyway, there's gonna be a hare, plays let laying a train of exactly like a dry bar of sorts, but just for hair play because so then, when I'm getting a massage, I want hair planning and, I'll send him say? Can I have a little extra on my head, oh and those they sure, and then they do. But it's not what I'm looking for. Ok, it's not hair play. I see a potential issue came venture care which is like, if I were to be a cocaine distributor. It be a bad idea. Cuz. I would do all the product, I'm a little nervous that if you own this shop, you're not going to be running it as much as just receiving hair play the whole day. It's part of research and development
as I say you are going to do that, so you basically are you need to get a second person involved to run. I have a few people involved. Will you do all right? Who else is our friend matter? Hairstyle, sweet, sweet man, so sweet he's a yourselves and Alain he's really good, and we have ideas about this and also Carly, oh yeah yeah. Well, can I make a suggestion? Like one of the many items be life Jack, it's not an actual life jack you're, not looking for life, but those long silly cue to get that would be great. For me, that's part of it. Regardless of the would be like a suite of things in among them would be the least check yeah. I don't think we should call. It lies check as s hands off putting we're gonna have to call it like hair needle, oh scary. To now shall combat hairpins about leprechaun check so it's like sounds like something positive might come out of it,
Unicorn Jack, I don't wanna go through your hair. Looking very unicorn can military units early Everyone assumes that unicorns. If they exist, it will be the size of a horse, but what if they were the size of a sea? Worse in a law that big here that here clasped her corn jack, I mean they fly around. That's a pegasus, unified stuff. they don't have wings. These have a big rod on the top of their heads yeah. So Pegasus is a unicorn. That flies was a universal it's a horse. Therefore. So what is a unicorn that flies? There are no flying unicorn, but I'm gonna invent that great. Isn't this I'm busy man ever you're in a sweet spot of creativity, we're like you, you're thinking of the two things so quickly, beginning flush them out. Why like Edison, so Nada, check the facts. Is there a god?
We are obviously we're not going to check religious facts on this backtrack. Go I think that's should go without saying. You know what the group my conclusion was a. I really adore her. Also it's like every kind of religious conversation. You would although as a peaceful one is She believed that I dont believe that no one's ever gonna sway. Anyone, it sent a kind of thing. I don't think that you, your swayed one way or another. I imagine every arm cherry lie, This was the same opinion they had when they came in a. I would say this. I think, for some people view, believed that religion is bad might not believe that any more after you listen to that might see the value of some people, believing in that the lessons in the goodness that it can bring ya, but if you're ready leave that which we do what I do yes desirable.
that in and I do think this is an area where atheists are unfair or cherry picking. Yes, some religion is terrible for people theres, many actions, the F dealers, Mormon fundamentalists who are practising pedophilia enough. That's problem, but its weight. You brought about net, it's like saying mail. are dangerous. Wealth. Many males are very dangerous. In many miles are not very dangerous in same with. Religion is just includes way too many people to make any of assertion about them. Yes, begin into the history of how religion has say, slowed down science like by imprisoning Galileo or having audacity to suggest we revolve around the sun, yeah yeah! I Polly People's opinions on whether they believe in God are probably the same, but I I do think her lessons and stories and her thoughts on religion are awesome, and I do think we
atheists em my issue with atheists and often is my issue with religion, it's the same issue that people are just trying to get everyone to believe what they believe and I totally fine with everyone believing what they want to believe, I'm not trying to get any one to believe. I know that, but many atheists are those like a movement I guess you, I think, in response to some of the religious motivated terrorism, it seems like. Oh, we gotta get people off this path like it feels excess tension in those moment right. I just disagree that it's their religion, that's causing, Yes, yes, then I think he brought me around to your side of why? I think I think it's. I do also think it's it's problematic to have as a concept in a religion of fatwa. Great, I think, that's a little dangerous goods,
god you're, relying on gods, input on who should be murdered in. I don't think that should be a part of any religion. Personally, I agree. I asked a few things that I just don't feel like a got any answers, and I think that's just part. oh I to that. There's lots of debate. I love to try to win like it's very fond, try to maneuver and bring up a factor this, and I dont have any motivation to call. When the debate you so it was tricky in that way where there were points where, just like you, I just like person a lot, and I disagree with that notion that a god should tell you to murder your kid as a test of your love for the God, but then leave it at that. I guess what there were some facts and one was so she has. the disease? Yes, she said children dont get it, but obviously there Gotta go. She had got it
cousin of mine, had it in their use you can get. It is much less common in kids than adults. With this disease, the body makes antibodies, cause the thyroid gland to grow and to make too much thyroid hormone hyper hypersonic. I'd I pose not enough and Cyprus to Monterrey. I think sounds try to remember that. I think that's why, by the way you say hyperactive eating, you could say: bull active. I got we meet currently. I just said he I will say hyperactive. I'm highball active currently I sell hypo active people. You're insane hyper acknowledges easily. This he's like hyperactive. Oh yeah, I like that country, or can I bring something unrelated. I know it set our new friend bill Gates had a lot of comments on a post right and I have not read any of them cuz. It was a busy week with the surgery and then also working all week. So I glanced
last night while did the freaks come out for that? What do you mean, Oh my gosh. I am totally naive to how many well this is a twofold thing. I do think at least here of em are russian box. He ever people who don't know that there is a New York Times article about this is really important to know that in Russia, the goal is to so descent among they want us to fight, that's their singular gold. They don't really have a position on any time. other than they like to isolate things that are device device. and then to stop them social media and so just listen, even if you're an anti vaccine. That's fine for you, but just No, that Russia is stoking the anti vaccine movement. They are very much behind it and they clearly to be behind this q and non thing, which I can't even comprehend this, conspiracy, theory, as I
standard. It said, there's this a lead ring of pet of files. muslim ladders. Here, however, and there's a blood is now like a blood thing like you, either blotter, something, oh, K for youth, voles, ironing somebody, I think, there's something about blood, so There was a smattering on be Jeez comments section about their pizza symbols, which is like the pizza gay, secure non thing. So you ve got off. I don't know if it's hundreds, people or its dozens, people with hundreds of a cat, How much is Russia, but I will say ah if it represents the actual number of people who believe that there is a celebrity ring of pet Ophelia I'm so nervous for those people. I was pretty shocked, unlike other some people that are really hanging on by a thread to reality I would say I didn't look. So I don't know I would say whatever the percentages is not representative.
listener base more definite about lit up, though of people. Oh right, yeah, idle The odds point: zero, zero, zero one percent. However, I personally I know a couple people who believe it they believe in the no in their real people. What active imaginations. They have a most jealous. When I imagine like what is a bill gates and warm buffet, have some big mind you, but as a very older, their hyper sexual. Not hypo is its own, like, while you're really there saying that, will that yeah bill gates as part of this spring. Apparently I got my and their silver bullet is. He was on a Epstein flight like yeah, guess what thousands of people are on empty flights. Yeah I've interacted with tons of people that certainly have crazy secrets me complicit in there now
does not the outs bonkers it is. It is bonkers, I'd really like to have an spurred on on conspiracy, Paris? I would too, because its psychological thing. I have my own theory on it enough tract of someone close in my life who their interesting conspiracy theories ebbs inflows right. and in I've noticed that it seems to be highest when this person feels the mouse rejected from society or from the system. That seems to be benefiting other people and not them. So I think a huge correlation of people who feel excluded from the system here and then once they feel that way, then obviously the system must be conspiring to exclude them. Need My big issue with people with conspiracy theories is tell through people in your life a secret that you,
actually trust yeah and see how long it takes before that secret gets to everyone in the group. It'll get everyone in the group within two weeks and that's people that you love entrust yeah. Now add in these conspiracies that involve thousands of people, but nobody tells anyone in no one goes to the paper and you just can't keep secrets that well yeah. I think that's a generous view of it. I feel obligated to imagine this is someone that maybe I would have loved it. I think there must be an emotion at the bottom of it that I feel bad for I'm sure there s. I just don't know what kind of like your terrors point of view, which I think has evolved incorrect, which is instead of like proving that the terrorist that their misguided totally the environment by which they would want to choose a different lie. I totally agree, so I dont think me telling the queue non people that their fuckin insane will be helpful agreed. The agreed: that's why think having an expert on to explore that psychology is interesting and I think your theory
is generous. People, I'm talking about were, are objectively, not excluded from anything how they may believe they are. There was the democratic Bang people that are successful and yet still feel see me are, but they feel excluded from something is us interesting people that I'm too being about. I enjoy very much as people their company so much, and it's a hard thing- reconcile yeah. I guess so. but what makes it a little scary, as if You believe in something that crazy. I'm nervous that you're behaviour in response to that might be equally insane. I guess it's like if you believe in that, and I'm a little nervous about all your decision may exactly exactly ok said the general some bible, regional peace on this over fifty years to the data
just signing the declaration of independence. Thomas Jefferson die aid on July. Fourth, ten twenty six just hours before the death of his fellow Sinner John Adams, that's crazy. We're coincidence, if you read the John Adams Mccullough Book, it's really great, but those two or pre. Much enemies, yeah and may they had all these weird parallels He died on the same day. They didn't want to Asia, bunch you eerie stuff, but sixty earlier Jefferson completed a eighty four. age manuscript. He called the law. Fan morals of Jesus of Nazareth gleaned from the fort ah spoils of the new testament Jefferson's private work. It remained unknown until his great granddaughter sold the manuscript, the Smithsonian in two thousand. Levin the Smithsonian undertook a challenging restoration product, the fragile document. What is now known, as the Jefferson Bible was presented, scholars and the general public at the Smithsonian outwork each small documents gallery
Maybe I would love that version. Maybe I need to read some positive about him. Cause I've only read really negative. Seven. I dislike him despite His genius, clearly great writer, be a real pedophile gravelling abroad, whether a slave fourteen or fifteen year old This is where the argument that everyone makes including myself in its real about that was different time that was it, time when mended did. This was a different time. race was this. You know in that true we have to let people of all. Then we have to let people match up to society and not up the standards of now to the past road, but tat Jefferson was a pedophile bite that time thirteen year olds are babies all the time? So then is it far well, I would say that what you have it acknowledges that in that
time he wasn't travelling through Europe and people like what the fuck are. You doing this fourteen year old girl they want and why wasn't news and. You know, I think, there's a lot of ways you have to evaluate. One would be like let's say, let's say for ships and giggles people drink mercury as a cure. All back then, because they would the the best knowledge they had. That was a good idea will now. We would look at that. No, that's insane that's poisonous, but it would be wrong to say that person was stupid because they weren't stupid in the day yeah. So it's a tricky thing because, like they are we saying that a cave for the time I mean a kind of I guess was, but it's it's not yet what I think of more should be like when those things are brought to light it be a moment to reflect how much we ve evolved in gas goodness and how misdirected,
We were for a great majority. The time we ve been here as we are currently misdirected, launch, be revealed later yeah viagra I'll, tell you what The reverse is how good you lookin. orange. Alas, that's no there never user. Then thirty, fifty two there never gonna look back and go. Oh man came back. then that was an ok collar. Furthermore, there still gonna go great color for her actually No, because what, if Q and on his real, as is the collar of it and then they're gonna, look back and say she was involved. She knew she wore that color she's back zero. They be wrong. I guess they could still say, but she looks good in it ok, so the pen that president's use called an auto pen and fish signing machine. That does automatic signing of his signature or autograph. theres many celebrities
that's how we should look into getting one way. Kristen as this book banning Christians book the world needs more purple people part of the deal he'll, is she s a sign, a line, one thousand night there's a palette of the books and our garage in every time. I see her signing an or even look at the palace. I get filled with anxiety of how I just I consent. We mean that many thousands of times in so I thought if I wrote a book, I would want to negotiate that I don't have to do that. Nurses like you have to because they supplement store law and as it were would then need to get a stamp or now I'm learning, there's ato, and it says they range from two thousand and ten thousand altogether, Does another one blogger a lotta president's have used. It is wrong. I'm sure trumped does not use it because he Polly gets away as this is not political, but I've seen his signature. It's pretty It's pretty look how telegraphy, but also their looks like theirs. way me letters in it for done.
When I look at it looks like there's like thirty five Sixty letters in it I went off those letters signature you look at it. I remember watching them sign one thing and I thought what have doesn't look yeah! It looks like it's odd, it's very vertical, their looks to be way to me. Letters and therefore yeah. Well, Donald Judah cannot look. I don't want to give them any praise ever gorgeous ignite all idle that signature. Doesn't I like it it's this? back to Thomas Jefferson. You know, of course, its right to bring up the fact that he had all these indiscretions use. Also great writer. Any help frame, something that somehow has lasted for years is relevant to knowledge that yeah similarly trump as beautiful signature. Motorways around us, ok, they're, shine haze play is an act of God, an act of God, those crazy that she brought
play actually saw, can always seen what eight or ten in my life MAX maximum item maximum mouse. That's all good job on the facts. My friend lanky, my friend five. I love you very much
Transcript generated on 2020-08-27.