In Part 5: Monica and Jess Love Getting Called Out on Their Bullshit with Dr. Drew, M and J invite the esteemed addiction medicine specialist and personality Dr. Drew Pinsky to the attic. Dr. Drew cuts right to the chase asking Jess about his relationship to mania, asking Monica about family trauma and he calls both of them out on negating themselves. He talks about removing expectations and how our country puts pathological love on a pedestal. He discusses neurological wiring regarding attachment styles and asks about Monica’s sexual history. The two are assigned a very interesting challenge at the end of the episode.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Right. I'm Monica a miniature mouse. I love boys, but I dont have one and in fact I've never had one. I could probably count on two hands how many days I've been in my entire life, and I decided it's time to change that high. Yes- and I love boys to and in the opposite way of Monica. I can't count on the hands in America how many people have had sex with, and yet I still don't have a boyfriend. I want one an armed acts and I love Monica and just in so many ways they. have partners- and that is a huge mystery to me, because they're both incredibly attractive so fond so smart and have so much to offer. So we decided to do was examined these unhealthy patterns and bring an experts and outsiders to help critique us. Advise us guide us
much called bull shit on us so that we can find the romantic complaining that we're looking for we start This thinking it was gonna, be just Q little dating challenges that we would go on and talk about and laugh about turns out. It is very hard to be vulnerable. in real time in public. So it's a big sire, so alone romanticize pathological, one, how much you want love got. You can't even get the sentence out. I would just eat around it's a little self and why do I want something? And then why I decided to. We must put the chairman, the water, for the sharks to come by Veronica Lake. So apparently I have to join Riah sweetly legs. You don't even have a kiss to hear anything frontal, lobe issues in the warehouse Bravo: okay, tat what you should be doing serene every night bribes to uncomfortable for this, please enjoy part five Monica and just love getting called out on their bullshit with doktor drew mannequin Jes is supported by helix sleep,
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You know they don't like: hey Jessica, are dead instalment, Monica and restless boys just we're halfway done wrath We then, how do you feel em viewing uncertain and are no words going, and that's not what I thought, but I like it and yeah it's a lot d, better than I thought, came a metaphor, arrayed Asian, exactly you guys! Hysterical, though
Eddie already, so we feel very lucky to have our guests. Had a doctor drew pins he is with us today mouse to help us and let's get him. Let's go with you Let's begin so, I'm feel. Being like one of the things that makes this uncomfortable particular for you just that it's you feel regressive. Like you, you look a little boy. Sometimes, when you're talking beatin would settle about, I've always been a little boy trapped in a six five to thirty body. That some happened did sir. You never got through The left, you a little boy air, how go in London the already you're coming for you right now. I've loved that about myself, I've loved that all my boyfriend's have said. I have this joy and this like childish, energy, yeah I get all that, but I'm seeing something a little different, which is all asset right all. Yet all good
but I'm seeing that when you talk about whatever it is, what makes you anxious that we're getting into here. We don't you know, TAT is the idea. I see you get a little regressed. morning with that is and wondering why that takes you back to that place. Is that when you first recognise you were gay and sir had hide that party yourself in the party yourself. It's been sort of unattended too, for some reason may be, but also the This public uncomfortable yeah. I feel comfortable, my own skin and forty three. I know- and I also don't hate that I'm kind of like tat, but you are confusing, to think. Ok, one is the asset that your childish nets, os yeah, but the other is. Whenever you start- and I see you getting uncomfortable with what might happen in the Pied guess I see something different, ok, witches! I see you to being a child. Legged takes you back in some way, not I'm trot like, and I've always ass. It is some things like there's a part of you that hasn't been attended to in its present here and all this yeah. That's all I'm saying I haven't
a lot of love and relationships or all the way back to a little kid. Well, yeah they got a divorce. When I was four and you know my mom lived in California, my dad live in Sweden. That was with him. What was year, eight nine. and like that was all Sweden. I was you know my dad. He passed away a couple weeks go actually on it's all right. There was man, it was strong but you know I was an only child and I was in Sweden and there was cold and I missed my mom in America and I do not understand why they get a divorce care. Have you gotten into those feelings ever look really looked. Adamant yeah I haven't. I talk to my mom and twenty years later I found my mom was addicted to alcohol. That's for so that's why I got pulled away from her so like a lousy resign, some really was going into which she around unpleasant people that you are exposed to know. I think
got me out of there in time gotTA and then that sobered her up and she became a police officer, and how great, wherever ever, since twenty five worry a inspiration to? Yes, it is your own mafia, very cool. I love her dearly. Our relationship is amazing and then and eleven I was old enough to say. I want to move to allay and I got to hooker that that sort of is important. Yeah. It's a big deal out over the two figures into this explicit way will world talking about today. But you know our early relationships get recapitulated in our current stuff and you know one way or another with the behaviors are manifestations of those feeling states in particularly when there's unattended parts of ourselves that sort of what I was getting at the unattended part. Some ourself we'll get attention will where another, whether its through drugs or acting acting out or whatever or dysfunctional relationships of Bob that part will come through right
and our conscious sell for a set of prefrontal cortex self were beginning with Hell's Goin on here. What do I keep doing? That's why they seem like the right this time I was so sure of it at all. I'm up, and yet we don't look at the deeper patterns that we got going somewhere back in Sweden whatever so and in your case case. Yeah me, I'm the opposite of Jes. I dont believe that you may manifest opposite, but I dont think you're that different oh yeah. We're also learning that every time we coming here we do these things it's become more and more apparent that we- and I think, maybe every one is the same. yes, everyone's does everyone holds like five and securities that there be no jumping from, and yes so you're right, we are very similar, ultimately will have started with a similar. Is what was interesting so I
in Georgia was in indian girl in Georgia. I felt like nobody was attracted to me was a true. I think. Yes, ok, I shouldn't say nobody, but the people that I wanted to feel loved by attracted. Do you think that was other non indian adolescence filled differently? I could not get a bit for that I want and in all my friends did have that, so it did feel your slaves under the guise of demagogy. Ultimately, you at a different experiences nuclear I felt, but of course they were sauce going through The same symbols in our staff, but but you are an extra bird exaggerate Ramblas resort to think about these things reason bizarre yeah I mean in Georgia and the when was this nineties or yeah yeah yeah, yes and mine fell like it was so external. I can hide behind anything. I had brown scan and I was wont. Let me ask you something: who's gonna sound silly, but it again
did. Did the kids understand the different ethnicities and races around them? Where were you sort of class white and one block and we're differentiated from other dogskin kid? I'm sure some people group did into a black, but they do this. You a good friends that came visited your family, oh yeah, understood what was going. Yes did you talk about it when you are that age knows how I was like adamant about separating man in making that a non existent part of my life? If so I was trying to be added back to my wireless bad unattended parts of south. Here we are again read exactly interesting. I was like, over and still am in over a simulator like I can sort of chameleon my way through and be what they need. So I become sort of indispensable to them in some ways: that's been of great asset for my life and also its a problem, but words of Rome.
I think it's a problem and that now, as an adult, I realise that as a kid I don't know who I really wise, his leg, always a person who was just shape shifting. A little bit, and so now I m that, and it's all made me in to me now, but some they wonder, like oh all that sort of repression. He said. Yes, I think if deadly makes me sad to feel like a kid fell like they couldn't be them some random me me, I couldn't val like ever any. If I heard that about another kid, I'm saying if I could separate and here the story of a kid growing up who felt like they can be, there which, by the way, another similarity just the same thing he felt trapped in being gay and he couldn't fully tap into fully him and I feel the same way.
so, would you rose you're gay, I mean, I had some five seven year old, stuff, sexual stuff. In Sweden, that was maybe a little bit more than nor what more normal kids did with other kids boys who is initiating o both, I think, maybe the boy that was a little older right, so that's called children, child sexual abuse- that last till I was eleven on and off with, these needs a new idea. then, that no one one of them and then on high who came around and I was pushing it all away and I became the best basque player in the best singer and the best. You know these things and I had a girlfriend and and then I she did on her that another girl and I was doing- and I was popular- and I was funny that was senior year and me in me and Bobby I can say real name. We started touching each
there, and then that became sexual is another person yeah, high school and then went to college got really the depressed gained thirty pounds, because I wasn't popular anymore and I was scared and I was alone. I know what the scathing was and I was looking at bathroom wall, seen pictures of penises and phone numbers for phone sex and This is nineteen. Eighty four and I was just like losing my my worrying college- Lucy San Diego, I was there one year and then I came back then I was out without sex. So then I was at the howlings during gay sketches, I was a chubby sits around my mouth. He lives in yellow was a one dimensional gay guy that what's but would never act on it was you have identified,
as a sexual or no, I was just die, was gained and secure. I guess then, I cut from the groundlings at twenty five, and that was a life changing moment for me, where I thought not unknown the one thing I was good out, which was comedy inhabiting I cried for a month and when I got a personal trainer and then I started doing stairways your work. Oh boy, Yahoo is your to both the moment you turned and start pulling out of it cried for a month and then all of a sudden you got to train it started getting better. Yet was there moment of change, it was just I have to. I have to look hot, I'm going to look gorgeous and I'm going to I'm going to get a great body, and then I start having sex It went for five years. I was having sex with twenty eight thirty guys a week, so can can you see how the the Anorexia and then the hyper sexuality or flip side of the same coin? the sex, sex or sexier dax indefinitely. I adored. and I would buy partied with him here and there, but I couldn't he was fallacious. What's up
voracious duration. Relation is a disaster, but I was just here, but I would just one: is attention is approvals I would by the cocaine, and he would do it all and he would take it home, get him back. I was like, that's fine and he would drink till six. in the morning, and I would throw up and not doing for two weeks and I always considered myself for half attics or using now, even supposing I am of actual everything, not drugs, casual drinker, I would say more than casually I'm ass. You have that have the childhood trauma. Stuff react, various stripes, you have them We are for us, as you do as one and it and what's your one o o mental illness in family. What can you talk about Could you tell me about it? If you want to hell, tell you and cut it? Yes, they have a lot of Hamley trauma. My
Ma Am has massive abandonment issues, so its major mental illness and intergenerational drama. Correct, yes, which gets rain down on us from previous Julia. Exactly that's rough yeah in it It doesn't feel real, like this idea of despair. This event that happened with my mother when she was younger? The idea that that I've inherited that somehow feels silly, but we are heralded, the stuff she was carrying around yes exam and whatever that is gets rained down. Little kids are sponges, yeah and then that becomes a bit of a road map, farmer landscape and how we fit with other people, and so we adjust accordingly, we act accordingly. It put it that way. We don't adjust. Typically, we just sort of fine fit
and you know section b what what does it do for your sex? I think it's it's become transactional for me and since I've been in love and had three boyfriends, I definitely truth that and being monogamous over at all but I definitely still dabble. I still dabble in it at all. I still dabble in those some cocaine. I still dabbling some happy hours. I still dabble and doing Molly twice a year, so I am a dabbler and I definitely still a lot of casual sex not like it early thirties by what is it doing? What was it filling back Emma earlier days? it was something that I didn't experience at sixteen and fifteen, which was feeling wanted and hot and, unlike terrible, desirable and loved yeah for less something like some form of Latvia as something that you wanted to field. But people wanted you yeah. I feel guy was ten or fifteen years behind. My straight counterparts that were
Doing this so much earlier, seaward term owed it. I took it to an end. I think, there's a sense of see. I'm like you, yes, wary because all your friends have been having sex end the casual saxon, fucking girls, and then I ll in a way- and I think part of your interest in that probably sums from yeah. Well, I'm the same you I'm just like you. There is a much more powerful drove them ok, I'm just like you, you be over within a couple of weeks. This is a deeper right. This is like heroin. brought brought it up last week to when I did for love and that and it was that feeling which was high completely. It was not sustainable wears a year. We lasted that break up by I cried for a year. I had never felt that pain
my life and it was like. I was losing a part of myself and you see how having sex was a way of avoiding that yet spilling it. Without doing that. Yes, I will say when I'm down when my dad past or when I broke up with Gregg when he broke out with me. I should say I turn do not turn to those things. I don't turn to sex to feel better. For me, I turned to sex and drugs and alcohol when I'm feeling good an exciting, and it is one thing that I do if I book a job, if I something good happens in my life, I want to make it better and held. You know forty three, and so it is only by poor disorder. Your family does not, I know, of a joke than a man a key, but I know I've never felt by polar or low lows. You describe multiple lows to me already yeah, it's true crying for a year and crime, but it that's funny, as I would never place Jes in that category. Burn present me, I'm not true. Yes,
to yourself. What he's Descrie, I know I'll write that down and Lego that would fill it ass. I am exaggerating, I think, is a comedian like clang free. I do eggs address all the time. Crime four year was more like a thing that I've said over and over again that you did You there was guy banishment sad, but I I I was going to work and I was my family, and I mean it wasn't like institutionalized, We are supported by twos. She too, she is an amazing, albeit unconventional, but amazing gifts. for anyone in your life. I brought it to a white Elephant party a couple years ago and it was a hot again, I am everyone wanted, as they should, because everyone's got an ass Everyone deserves the gift of till she it's important to take care of. We can't just neglect if you got poop
on a part of your body? Would you off with dry paper? No, this great question Actually, no, we wouldn't you use water. Yes, why are we in that for about. We gotta do it. We were laughing and it's funny, but is also serious, because if you don't do it, there's bacteria can lead to hemorrhoids niece infections and just all kinds of not pleasant stuff. So it really is important. Thankfully, there is now a sleek today attachment that clips onto your existing toilet and sprays, your butt com. lately clean with fresh water, it's called till she and it's the best thing. You can do for your mind, your body and your, but its hooked up to fresh Water is not where the water, which are they go on. People get a little confused about a nervous about by its fresh water. Also, it's only seventy nine dollars that is still gotta hello till she dot com such Monica get ten percent off your order get clean. We are supported by stamps. Dot com do as Europe,
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It was a real spiral. I must have been one. He is nineteen play twenty. It was in college and it was really really intense for a fair amount of time that anxiety and panicky over yeah. It manifested really physically. Like it would have all these weird sensory things where if there was a sound that was happening that I couldn't identify link, I was rigour. Yes, your eye like was either too it's crazy, we're just telling somebody else's and they also experienced at which I felt so obviously like no one knows what they sell. Bizarre, because panic has a behavioral component to its wouldn't get triggered, and once it goes, I watch yeah yeah, it was rough I had one more bout of that very specific type of anxiety when I was a guest public five years ago
oh, and I mean this is such a weird thing to say, but I think possibly got triggered after Robin William railed himself, so so when I put them accents right, yeah, it's kind of goofy, but it makes sense yeah, and that makes me think also. You must have certain oecd qualities with what goes on with you to yeah. I mean it's funny cause Dax, and I talk about this. Time on our shook ass. He has had these crazy oecd ticks and stuff, and I dont think I mean I'm a very obsessive person. It goes into allotted this boy, stuff layers we're so photo use for you both talk exactly the same way. You both go. I don't have any of them
dont have any OECD what I am totally obsessive. I cried for a year. I have no depressive zip, isn't where you are. The same, really, truly believe that your dilemma form twenty years ago, and they talk about your story. I've said this fucking story so many times I am getting of a good, and I want to throw it away, and I do want to change my narrative, but it's so I dont know what part is me and what part does not mean it? bullshit is we that is the job of emotional health which is integration Take your that's why I was pointing out the little boys tat which, by the way, is gone right now. When I see you
a very kind of like an antenna, pickup crazy shit, the little boy stuff that worth talking about to begin with. I just don't see right so so you can integrate, you can be present and you know you can't do that and Odin be part of you and integrate as a whole, and I think that's what you're doing right a minute's reality. What your life is, let's be fair. Now are you doing just seems like yeah, historic, integrating and regulating and getting a whole concept of self he's fragment. Sometimes Benny still enjoy the main issues and whatever, but but he certainly integrating in, and I would bet it as a manifestation of your best bet, have healthier relationships. I want you utter. Are you able to? I haven't had a relationship, and for years and worse, this show is kind of like what are we doing
All of our friends are married and have kids in our group pretty much. Why had a guess? The reason is, a guess is that you ve made not great choice hereditary and they ve been track when they leave or a word with a rupture you know, and what people do they flip to the other side then go. Well, then forget it. You have to be in an overview of this two yet Monica, but but just you have to be careful
I'm your loving sex attic, essentially amid fruit is a way of thinking about it and they sat in the not guilty treat Madame, as I read a way of thinking about this, is that and when you have those kinds of things going on you're a perfect instrument for trouble, if other words, your attractions, every time organ end up in a place that is familiar. So what you have to do is either a lot of treatment, get therapy or be stopped. Looking for lightning bolts and look for butterflies. Does that make sense hundred percent you have to kind of fine people at a more interesting nourishing loaded, boring compared, which are used to especially like those maniacs, and that will be a real relationship, may be somebody's available for actual intimacy. Give you have difficulty with intimacy still up, for you because the sexual compulsion serving as a substitute for the right, but with the three boyfriends I felt very healthy? It was at a real intimacy where they were take care of you. They valued your relationship as you through the value, your feelings they cared for you, and yet,
Ashley one was more of a friendship and we're still friends, and I thought that was really healthy. I dont want that for your either, because that everlasting rag remained a dead. That's you trying to do what good would be careful. That right, you have occasional lightly right right, which was the next one was maybe too many lightning bolts ride. You think I have to find the best looking of paying Eurasia with Gregg. You sad was operating on a level that was not, as you just said in a second ago, sustainable it
It was due to four note. This is that if this is the other one cried about look like Tarzan, I mean there's a tan music. Look at this person that likes me. So handsome, ok! Well, that's your thing. You have any that! Oh, I have a ton of wanting unattainable people what they look like the physical support for you too, if is, but actually I mean, like you know, I've had like really big crush on teachers and act. So our challenge last week for me was to write down the list of the people that I massive fantasies over cause fantasies, a huge thing for me right down a list and then like see what the through line is, what you're all
of them unattainable across the board. Some physically unattainable is like Matt Damon is on that list. You know, but also something about them is better than meat. The way they look their knowledge. You know teacher wise, I have something I don't have and I want- and I feel like. Maybe I could get through the proximate to them, but the counter to that is either these fancies exists or super super heightened they kind of you know they owe, I guess they it control and a lot of ways over me, and then some of them have come a little closer to getting. real and as soon as that starts to become a little real, I am completely uninterested. I think, if you're interested in me. No thanks! So it's it's a groat remarks, never want to be a member of a club that would have been a member. Exactly that's what Harry are therapist last week said this
thing, and it's definitely that, but the fantasy is a bit of a wave of oil that is also the year period. I'm learning would have never never at o c Rosalie. Never do we owe this taxes bald by the wake. As I said, I think I'm a little bit of then he's like you're, not anxiety paragraphs. You gotTA, go! Ok, you don't do no good to have anxiety apparent without some. Also interesting, religiously Anyone that is less stuff than Dax doesn't have any time now they say right now, but the avoidance of intimacy is really what's the court tourism, it yeah so think about. I go from unattainable to rejecting Yanks Hungary. Have you had relationships, not really
I mean I've had a car. I ve had small like a couple months, a data, this person, but no no, I will not put a version now, but but close issue close, This I mean it's hard to say closed, because no I'm not good or bad podcast surgery. The way you guys talk gear gear. It is, sir, that you know, or to even have to really think, about it. How do you know thirty? Two I'm trying to listen to my own feelings, about what you're saying yes and I'm having a peculiar reaction they dont quite understand, which is, I want to be sad about that. Ok, but I am not ok. One is that I have. I feel that sometimes for her,
yeah. This whole thing I almost a more invested in her because I have an avalanche that have to stop. She has to start and end. yeah yeah. I don't want her to having to have focused on how do you like that, but I should buy view be feeling sad because it you're telling me a sad story about an incredible person who should be engaged on a deeper level, and that makes me sad to think about yeoman. I sit here and talk to you. I don't feel sad, very interesting. It is interesting and I dont understand will who is it success and status and attractiveness and that's her life other than this one? portion is amazing. Maybe something like that? How much do you miss all this? I really do wish. I had it, but I also- and maybe this is where you're picking
up on, like I have a happy full wife I think I walk around knowing which is that, I had another thought with a must again what I expect it has made to me here is- is a kind of what wasn't somewhere hiding in my head, which was oh it when you feel when you are ready for this, it will come and you don't want, but just has now go what someone else and then someone else will sort of presented. So I only disagree because I'm with her a ton- and I think there are many opportunities in her life that she could be going out in Humph. Resign. I'd refuses not! I completely agree. I am certain, that's true and it's gonna make it harder and law hunger for the thing to come to be so kind my challenge, for you would be to God just an end. This words gonna scare, you but date to spend time with people breaking bread and
What are we doing right now? This would be a date if we had a meal in front of us right. We talk about our lives and our thing in person, and it could be anybody. It can be a merry personally, maybe not going to go anywhere, but you gotta starts. ending time with communing with people and would grows out of that year. I mean a couple so are my profound was dwell on two dates in one week was an interesting that everyone's you today having clearly that is. The purpose is like how do I still doing there in a way where I feel open to an actual Inaction, because I don't worry about it. Do you like my time with people? yeah time with people very simple, the don't be so
worried about you. He has a ton of amazing friends. No people have them, introduce you to people or hang with Paypal. She's been going to dig like, as is the one, as is the one is believed that behind I just think you need to spend time with people doing interesting things yeah, but then don't you think they'll be an expectation of Jesus their problem, because that that's kind of what I was expecting from you is more co dependency, which is that, with their what's gonna happen, though, personally expect something from above about their problem, and then and, by the way, that's part of the reason to start deigning to practise boundaries and compassion ran right. All of it. close about my life yeah. I know it's true, don't worry about what the meaning of it is her words going just do that, don't you think I'm doing there
thing, it ameliorated one of your friends and you're doing that will be hiding out. Yes, new people expand your horizons, but the option There be a clause that there should be a potential possibility for romance large their drugs and actually right in his hand, and somebody Oh god, I know this great I'd be great, for you would you. have any studies or percentages as far as steroids and looks and age between straight and game as far as I know given are doing a lot does the restored and my patience, a stimulant addicted to steroids, die, that's the one thing I will tell you: they died and uncanny right and I dont know why they don't die the same things but the stair its due to them a rainy is staring. He commanded right. You felt it right, You know what that is. I do and it's it's another stimulate. Let's face it. You think the percentages of straight men and gaming an addiction, furthermore, gay men than cats. I guess I think
oh, I know there's more detail. If, have you're more likely to addiction. Traumas the is the inciting agree, and gave him a direct out sexually, have trauma their backgrounds and so that probably correlate sprite near so, if you're out there would people at her piper sexual they're, doing stimulants you're gonna find trauma so right. That's that's! That grew Yacu entangled Oda that Saxon love addiction cause. I think, maybe some of our whoever's listening to this, I'd be interested in that the details of what that means, because it sounds so like you know, this s, hotel sex and love addiction, but it's real yeah, real sex addiction is very people, heart themselves, yeah they get physically armed and they still go on. They still keep going and when you see real sex addictions, I know they are not happy I will tell you that what all the sex love attic say to me when the doors closes, I'm just wanna have a relationship to they all say he alone ass much ass. I
the idea of banning and- and they just seem like they can't take it- that intimacy can get that close. This the same way from quiet intimacy, did the drive the desire to be wanted, loved and intensity their addicted. That intensity brought about. half of that would have liked. The person has two or three aces and not seven or eight of one of the people that are that don't have consequences. What about is you're such a thing, rotation, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, told you that I I don't want you to know lightning, bolts, right right, you gotTA subjects. I know that's important to you and I know that can be sustaining nourishing party relationship, so I'm not saying expect to have quite intimate zune, there's gonna, be your life and rise ex every couple weeks, and that's that
you write, you need to be realistic about that too, but you have you tolerate the balance the ratio will. Unfortunately, in this in the western society in this country in particular, we romanticize we amplify pathological of the eye ass. What what is our paradigm story of love in the western culture meal into Romeo and Juliet gap, which was a loved action that ended in a death of both parties rise actively glove addiction was so pathological that there were suicide and murder involved in it. That's how fucked up thou as we look at that as a glorious story of romance no. Ladies gentlemen, that was a catastrophe. These kids were living in a fantasy. They were ridiculously intends to the point of almost illusion, yeah and then because of the depression associated with the rupture suicide yeah.
Come on now. I know I know I really like hold back on a pedestal. a romance or something you want to write and so correct, and then you should have a version of it. Just not in a big wool is Frank: has I've been thinking about? So we had our kara. How can we get out of here? Yes, she's the best all my guy will love you no exact she doesnt day. They are too she's my go to another question. Yes, our so we had her on arm chair, but we should also have her on or perhaps a lawyer cause. She talked of a bit on our show about love addiction and ever since she's, but I've been sort of just like spinning MA. Am I had a little bit because of glory social Report and not not not an oecd as a native says, if what I always like there's no way I can be a sex or love attic, obviously can be a sex out of my having sex. I can't be
that is so also like not really been in love, but when she sitting here and she sort of explaining, especially the level of fantasy that goes on. I was like I wonder- and I may be her and I'll- ask you like ten, you be Oh, that ICT who's, not in la real. Ok, you can kind of be so really what word to dancing around generally intimacy disorders right that avoid genuine intimacy and fantasy? Does yet, and so the end again, these terms, like love addiction, sex dictionary, are really just caught there. diagnoses there. Neither the US in five their constructs their ways of helping us talk about things and understand things. As a great book out, there called overcoming love addiction by Pierre Melody. I recommend you read. It now came about certain kinds of relation.
Ships with your primary caretakers, how, if their overly and master over they rejecting and how that kind of gets acted out where people go through. These love avoidance, love addiction cycles, you maybe some of that yeah we start now you you get in and then you start getting out of hand you act out sexually. Then you get. Again, this sort of recycled people get into. Usually it is rated you'd go out. I got it first hundred pages, so you get a time out a re interest, overcoming love addiction, but Let me also share with you, so I've been coming in here what couple years my I much more of you present now than when I first came in here, where you were very quiet, very withdrawn and very, like you your chameleon self. You were inserting yourself into this as the dutiful caretaker and I'm I have concerns that you would overdue that in any
Is anything I going the caretaking, the codependent either being what other people need you to be and less of this which, which is what should be present all the time? we are supported by article article is the easiest way to make your space look gorgeous. They have the cutest furniture? Dora bull is awesome. This direct consumer furniture company combines the creation of a boutique furniture store with the comfort and simplicity of shopping online. So easy. It's so great age, purchased a piece of outdoor furniture for my dac, which I'm so excited
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probably more in the mode of I will shape, shift it. Somebody who, I think has high status or is above me it's the same thing like better than me and because, if they were to see me they'd, be rejecting courageous and that's bullshit right yeah. Maybe admitted in as a weird cycle were like, then: ok, if they see me and then they like me, but their higher status and actual or not higher salaries, because you take their status now. Therefore, exactly exactly I love them off them. How were you can stop him? but a lot too, I mean that's the goal. That is what we built this coming from your mom receiver Data Sea can a person I know now she's. Definitely not, but she's, not a registrar soon. The one word think I did not grow up in a house where there was a lot of shore training or the depiction of love. Really. They will drag still together, and I mean
They were arranged marriage. No, are you ever threatened with that there really good about that that they really are fine with me doing. Whenever I won C Mon Interracial marriage real about about. I do you take a more and stride than arranged marriage, I can kind of see if it was somebody like. If we did some vet and it was like. We look at this person. Look at his body. Look Billy! I don't think the range part would scare him. I think it didn't were river reviewed Vivian, it was his arrangement everything he wanted. All that's it. That's that's! True maybe I should. I should arrange them for him at the challenge, but So, no, let me know romance, and so I also think there is like that whole idea was sort of put on a pedestal, idea of love because I was getting it from movie those getting from Romeo and Juliet I was getting it from these heightened place there
wasn't getting it from real lying friends. Good regarding hampering friends and goodwill hunting, I was like Fantasy YAP wide open for those two things together. I think, as yeah I never saw, that day to day and saw what it meant to have high and low within that that were real. Do right. Yeah revealed some success to him Yeah era, every thy rightly about his amazement, really urgent, asked and the same story yeah worse yeah? I guess so. I got a story. right for other people them more than yourself here. But I know you right a ton. I like it had tons scripts groups, I'm really all that fell out because of time yeah, I loved I love making my own worlds. As a kid I wrote to me in my best friend, we would just like right stories all day long. Create worlds or I had control of the narrative in there was so much love and this in value, and so it should do right when I really
They all. I was ready, and I know what that is. All I don't even have to use. Your starting point has done nothing. Would sooner. It is because I also think we both believe that were very self aware right, like we both sort of take that Like we're self aware, people or self aware different ways. Tell I grant you that we, your dear frontal, lobe, exists in the way yeah, it's it's a she's got this powerful info, That's just lay analyzing an OECD in everything and analyze at the great asset, but it's in the way you have connecting to your emotional landscape your connect, your ear, you live in the emotion you living emotional landscape, it that's the difference in in Europe who are aware of it, but it's it's a little friend,
method and you move in and out of these fragments? And I don't think you're aware when you move in and out of them that has a non self aware part and for you Monica said, you're disconnected from those emotional landscapes and your intellect kicks in and try to explain. Everything that has now it's the truth, Do I lean in mind now you're at a yearly live in your year that that's You guys are interesting. My rise, that's that again, although this whole business you both denying it you're right coming over this matter I think I'm sick of Gore and twelve, and I don't know what that is when you both habitats, reads it's under its minimization or deny, or what what what that first move always is. Also weirdly ties in to be asked modulation that we both been programme. For our whole lives, which is like I'm good.
it saying I'm not this, I'm very slowly, but all ones ignore me ignore these real things about me. Now you see here. Yes, I think I see here literally in you to know gay. No Indian, don't see that does it. So everything starts with nothin here they wouldn't have lots of it. Then you end up accumulating away more than you shed yeah. I think that's The heart of the soup soup hardly suit to explain them to me. I'm Nebraska Anna! four intimate a lotta gay men. I know have a little bit of a recoil from the idea of female genital aid. You have that. I think that's a joke that they know they. They like it, the they joke about it, but they really feel, and I think that amendment no one- I don't have that, don't have done. I think it's a sassy, Queenie cunning gay thenardier, hussy, grossly ass a good year yet another the thing I know. I know that some of the base level Joe could just now
It is unfair to women and not funny you here. So I dont partake in that, and I also don't have that whole think that everyone's gave thing in a lot of guys. Have you he's a keys? Gay he's gay only know, I'm everyone is straight to me until their dicks America. After I have a question for you is so being doctors from for twenty years. He has changed so much in twenty years. What are some things that you said twenty years ago that you ve changed your opinion on this or any thing that you ve loosened the reins on Neither the basic patterns are still the same. Remember I I work in the extreme right, and so I see extreme stuff in the world of trauma. That sort of where I always been an that's, never trained change. Drug addicts are always the same. Consistent airy consists, redder, that's what things I find so fascinating. It's open equitable and people are so dear, so interesting when their when their motivations or broken and then so
great when they get back I've loosen up myself a bunch when I was starting out I'm I was I was really felt very I customs having super important guy when I was. I was really important and I took a very seriously and if, if anybody in tried to get me to not be serious, it was extremely uncomfortable for me, and so personally, I'm not as serious as I used to be. I think this evening I probably would have been more rigid for lack of a better word in the idea that there was a developmental price. Says that ended in something a majority of some type and that anything that wasn't a fully integrated and fully brought into something what I would call a whole that there's something wrong now. My feeling is that whatever you're pieces
or wherever they are? The? U N, this peace nappies and the time it's all good you you'll have to go anywhere for anybody or be anything for anybody, but you have to behold yourself, whatever that is when you or doing Love Linda, were there any better? They stood add here that you still been always ask that question. So so we sort of arbitrarily picked a couple of niggers every night. There is always something so one was a couple of of the enemies and orphans that got put, there's actual, not sister, but they call themselves sisters because they were put in the same orphanage in the streets of Saigon and then rode up to this country, and then one of them called us and found out that this was like an orange county. Another was in Denver, as I recall that they want to Denver, was turned emitter, she's been sexually
used. We helped her. Get you no good at that situation on the more usual loveline aside. The other story we would tell was about a guy named Jim and he was in the gym. Anyway. He had a dog, Brutus over the dogs, Dame oh by an Brutus was having sex with this gentleman my hand he he call. They said you guys. Are these open minded? This is a former people are supposed to be able to share their ideas. How can people so freaked out when they find out about my consensual, loving, intimate really shall we go what's going on with this relationship? Who, with a it's my key to Kali Mix brood and not only with the objective of our british zoning sex or hear me a trained MIKE end, and it was here's the really interesting part of the story,
Is he taught me told me a lot of Zeus failure any of these in the internet was get going as we had all communities and EVA he, I sort of its research. I found that these Rauf lot of severe deprivation, early childhood and so there's no attachment, and so the attached animals are peoples or are equally on attach. But the interesting thing happen, as are our staff freaked out with goes on the phone this man is we burned alive? He he's a horrible human being. This again, I can't tolerate this an atom. Finally, one wait a minute you're, yet gyp. Nothing, ok about this, but just hang offer second every night and the show we hear about children being abused sexually and physically. You guys don't react to that, and yet this guy you're do you want him killed and by the way this is
where he goes. How bad is it for Brutus we're Draghi Brutus, or would you rather be pulling a slit in the identify with which would you rather, what do you get me out of the guys? Do the idea right, but yes, that boils down to attachment for him. That's plans have a scratch. My screwed up here why which is a whole other interesting landscape, right attachment and there is different times Everybody has an attachment style, yeah avoidance, secure disorganized and was for. I was for the fourth one, it's avoiding it. It's I kind of like avoidance cause. I do it with this organised all the time. That's all those I'm dealing with what is either forthwith dismissive to MRS Merkel, threats, which is quite the. What then, was the whether one secure Asia's decisive fearful. So when you are born, we have a sort of assistance our brains that allows us to get close to somebody and attach them and to the primary attachment figures ma
in my brings all of her emotional machinery to bear on that relationship and that relationship usually as for general categories to it and that the way one of the ways they started evoke attachment styles is through challenging the child with removing her from the mom or mom having which hold still face at reuniting, because our feet turned on our faces where we express on a lot of our emotional exchange rate that we have signals that are going on all the time between us and we would have been aware of ninety percent of them and it is essentially at its core. This Louis constructed is child an emotion. Mom tries to a tune and run, and understand that emotion and then on her face automatically, is a reflection of that emotion like and its, and it's a pretence day sought the actual mom state. It's the moms appreciation of the child's internal state. Think about it.
Her my finger finger its autumn exaggerate head of an exaggerated, but but it happens at the corners the mouth than in the very tiny muscles me. I have to watch it and when you see it happen as I do, and the people are aware there doing it this is an and then the mob Mama tunes and into Reno Critical, create a regulatory environment for the child's emotions which emotions are changed, identified and sent back as something that the child can understand and that's the attack. What sort of landscape then, when the child's in that a tune connected environment, they could even be completely chaotic and abandoning and neglect fall in or can be an environment, mom catches, the emotions and comfort ejecting like I can't stand it anymore. I have a drink. Co dependency kicks in there than in so there's lots of qualities, and there are plenty of children that you and it's not
the child, after a separation from them onto the job, want to get back into the go to the mom for regulation and determine a reassurance fearful and avoidance move away from the market as a mom is a source of distress that mom brics, lotta, traumatic, emotional machinery, in with her in secure chaotic connection, is the mom to trauma mental illness and just can't they can't get a stable environment for the child emotionally at all costs its threatening to them all these emotions are stirred up in her yeah them, except my own, inadequate, rising. I would urge reading on attachment and tricky. It has. Anchored in neurobiology, because then you know it's it's real, so yes, from day Y know what you're getting from your mom. Oh yeah,
then the boiling replicate well, that's the beginning of Europe. What we might call love maps right, these sort of what we fit with, and we know that sort of becomes our fitness that we start looking without in the world. Is that that landscape? course. The other parent also can serve out. You know another map and it can help. Prepare some of what the other parent is doing, but the primary parent is the primary source of of this attachment. Then you had a major rupture and abandonment after that right, yeah, and so what happens if it what's the longest relationship you've had by the way, Are you all fifteen months you and in so what we have the rupture it, the just that the potential of the rupture makes going back to that environment of closeness challenge challenging threatening cause? Oh my god, I try I was gonna come again that so close answer, let's roll out like one another, we were like just to break up and it did not feel it. That's right. It's a brief, o king. All that all normal staff,
and so and so a therapy would want one of the goals of therapy their various ways to approach it. One way to do as a form of secure attachment that that's one of the things that people do in therapy that takes war, You have the real work, all that neuronal machinery and the therapist s to kind of I have a gate all that and find her does her way into a secure connection with you and then sustain that for a period of time. So you can then reflect that back into your choices at the world. Intrastate yeah me, I guess it's impossible if you hadn't an example of a secure attachment to then go make one in the world. Is it's not even an example, your wired, you re you're wires and you have to if you're gonna change that wiring it takes. Some work, crazy thing about trauma is, and this is where the sun the sex levitation comes in- is that when you ve had a trauma and childhood you'll be attracted forever more intensely to people in places that recreate that
I have no idea what I am afraid you to call a dramatic reenactment. We call them now traumatic, reenactments enough when those where the hell that happens, It's some wiring thing. So that's why so earlier I was saying the or a perfect instrument if you're attracted to somebody with lightning bolts, that's gonna be an abandoned person. I guess and it could be intense and cool and very gratifying for a while. They will leave you yeah. That's me out here and in the end again of history of substance. Use is pretty chaotic, STAR alliance, that, wherever we go out with her was in tat I love the amount of carbon to twenty five years. I pity, oh my, by taking your kid away from someone doesn't always sober someone up and well I rightful that it did. You hear well, I generally the things that get through to attics or loss of freedom, loss of life loss of children, but we all know
Bullet overdose. Millions of times and of imprisonment is at times, but get losing children does tend to get through to women. Did she talk at her traumas? That kind of explosion of addiction early on as usual sexual abuse, women Dasso, you can kind of look for than her bankrupt, and it ended long come on in an air and water. The crazy things about miles or sexual abuse is intense after their kids to the one thing they do wanta easy as it has again been attracted the circumstances of things that are familiar with the trauma they gravitate back to environment or the kids get tax. That is it so we're all chaise radically worthies, though all of us we're, does walking around or just doing the same thing. Over and over. We knew that we all do that for in these patterns. These so will protect in our interpersonal lives, particularly the tat ran trauma, He knows unsolved, unresolved, starve, wiring itself behind its, why we have taken Harrowby
It seems, like the knowledge, should break the pattern of deserts. Noises not for low had gotten away, he is here. I was about work and so far I guess, ragging maize is not working that thing. It sure you'd you. This was Plato's Castro. I tried that you know the emotions were: horses in the electric driving the chariot. It doesn't really work like that. The motivational systems, the the maps Half an hour relating with others are feelings about our identity and our view no place in society and success, and all these things have deep feeling states associated with them. Tat day was not like you and I was very disconnected from feelings. It took a lot if there are two connected em now in number. They really really grateful because I saw it. I still have to pay attention to really really pay attention to cover their distant.
You're not always end up in the front of me. Cuz, I'm such a freaking codependent. I feel other people's more acutely. That is so. We have here and there has been some situations or I'll somebody else's emotion is so strong and I feel it so a tune lay run and it takes over, and so I have used the word. Codependent zoom times are too with that is, but That is an asset here right, be that I saleable in a tune in a path that you actually really people's feelings. The problem with the codependent is that will co mangle your feelings with the other person's yes you will actually have your own pain, mobilise by the other person's motions and then you'll want to fix. In the other person, because it's your pain that you're funny so intolerable would have, the US, when are you gonna? Get me is that the feelings come in we catch, you sat Folia contagion. We just ass, we get,
and they called mingle with ours that had to separate them is very difficult. It looks like it's the other person's and we got to make up stop because it's really in us that we want to make yeah I've had a lot of discussions with you were, and I have to tread lightly because it's hard to tell someone that. That's not your shit it's a young that is really hard for us. She believes what she saying, and I understand that- and I also said it's not your issue, it is, though, is that your issue? It's none of our business Sumter No, this like it's like. I asked you to rescue them. I don't want to be rescued us none of your goddamn business and it's a boundary right that they have to learn about boundary. But you got to separate your feelings out to be able to really yeah and day, it's funny I been out of therapy forlorn town, I still little more commonly than I was ripe, is fresh yeah yeah. It's a I mean it's, a muscle did the absolute is
think manner less skill with this in our corpuscles some smaller rights, we connect to a ripe ransom and the right brain is where a lot of stuff is going on in this interpersonal landscape. It's where the baby communicates with mom before they have language. It's all that attachment stuff guys, acknowledge shore believe or be embedded in the bright brain. So it's right brain right, bring communication that sets up this atonement. Landscape of attachment, interesting in the males, are as our crops close him that his big or not is embedded in that right side would even, though you're really good justice excellently haven't. You are better than your rights. I read you. you feel stuff, oh yeah, you're in its, I don't I gender it per se myself where I just I just think of it. The neurobiological terms in the attic term stuff, but I wouldn't expressly gender it yeah and in their play amended, have lots of what you have in their play of women that have less of it. I know it so tat, always a spectrum, so a brain am I
you're living in your emotional brain, which is what side rights I got it and she's frontal site she's, let's go above all frontal lobe control of irony that pre frontal cortex is in the way we made an Airbus is at its every time an enormous issues like you. I know you know you understand it lodge gleam you're, not understanding and an around cigarette emotionally. Okay, so far as are weekly challenge these were or meeting again law from Thursday a week from tomorrow YAP. So this challenge has to be completed by then I wanna, arranged marriage. You I want to arrange a person for that interesting. Very interesting. I mean we can you do it to Otherwise, why don't you just assume what we know now? I like it, because, because I want you, just two or to hang with any
yeah, and not be worried about it. Just learn to have a day with a human being and get to know wait. A minute we have to have. We have to set each other up, we are Pherson, doesn't have to be sexual or anything is a hang out with. Specifically, I dont want it to be sexual, but if it whatever rang, but I'd rather not be rather a rather beer and encounter sitting and exchanging with another human being, and I have to get hers and she s your mind yeah, and we can't know this person no, like you can't, mine array, and I can do her sprang endangers the goals to enjoy being present with other humans and new powers sin. Ultimately, what I'm looking for is, I want to use see yourself through a new pair of glasses. I want you to sit with people that you wouldn't normally be attracted to, because the attraction is all that old tree.
Imma stuff right, and so this is a way of taking that out and putting you with somebody with somebody thinks is suitable for you is not being you know, so I'm confused. Is this a date or is this boat, This is why there has been saying the whole time is to not parcel that began, we have expectations here. It is. can be. A data can be sex, but I'm looking for as you too spending time, seeing yourself through a new pair glasses by just being with another person, and that could be If you really do it and really pay attention during the exchange, you'd be surprised what they can do. People people just hang out with people they would normally hang with, will like find. Sobriety, though, suddenly have a moment of clarity and things that they see themselves differently, because again
Would you see gab each of you all of us or the fitness, the old patterns in the end, if you step out of that untraceable different him, do it on a regular basis, especially which I'm especially now just pointing it out. You know who knows a terrified. of to pick for her yeah. I have no problem goin to do anywhere with anyone. I want two phenomena: pigs, someone who is an example of someone. I want you to be worth looking at yeah yeah, but I think I hope you'll want to be where they could care about exactly exactly, and what are you gonna do I dont know because my thing was pick some one that is intellectually stimuli. getting a bit she does that all the time I kind of one. some one that I don't know. I don't know. I'm scared I describe. It is a new pair. last his lady- I like that- it's an extremely powerful experience. Thank you.
Beg you. This was fantastic time. It's It's interesting when you're in something didn't times, zoom yeah yeah yeah when you're in an emotional space time contracts and expands yeah share. This is lovely thanks. a man as you guys like you,