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Part 8: Monica & Jess Love Cock Buffets with Dan Savage

2020-04-01
In Part 8: Monica & Jess Love Cock Buffets, M and J welcome Dan Savage (author, media pundit, journalist, and LGBT community activist) to the attic via video chat. Dan delineates many differences between dating in the gay community vs. the straight one. He talks to Monica about why women are engrained to "vet a guy before they bed a guy" and talks to Jess about transgressive behaviors in the gay community. He discusses the notion that we meet a few people in life who are .68 and we make the choice to round them up to a 1. He talks about the equality complex and how we need to give ourselves permission to have successful short term relationships. Monica talks to Sam on the phone and relays to Jess what they talked about and Dan takes the challenges to a new level of scary.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aye aye, Monica a k, a miniature mouse. I love boys, but I dont have one and in fact I've never had one. I could probably count on two hands how many days I've been on in my entire life, and I decided it's time to change that I'm just an I love boys to and in the opposite way of Monica I can't count on all the hands in America how many people have had sex with and yet I still don't have a boyfriend and I want one and I'm acts, and I love Monica and just in so many ways they. You don't have partners, and that is a huge mystery to me, because they're both incredibly attractive so fond so smart and have so much to offer. So we just I need to do, is examined these unhealthy patterns and bring an experts and outsiders to help critique us. Advise us guide us pretty much.
A bull shit on us so that we can find the romantic companion that we're looking for. We started this thinking. It was gonna, be just Q little dating challenges that we would go on and talk about and laugh about turns out. It is very hard to be vulnerable in real time in public, so suffered sire. So lonely, romanticize, powerful, wonder tat. How much you want love got! You can't even get the satin zau. I would just eat around it's a little self and why do I want something? And then why have I decided to? We must put the chairman, the water, for the sharks to combat Hanukkah's like so, apparently I have to join Riah sweetie legs. You don't even have a kiss a hare annual frontal lobe issues in the warehouse shop, Raw located what you should be doing. Ass arena reunite bribes to income, for this please
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but I don't like you know they dont, like wow part, a mannequin jas. This is a virtue draw on Jas? It's our first one, it's odd! I wish you were altogether, but we do have a fabulous guest today, Dan Savage stand. There so much for joining. I then break it goes for having me ourselves so so so excited to get your perspective said last week we had Esther peril and she gave her. He added
about a man. She really had a lot of MIKE drops for us, so her towns to me was to go on an active date, not legs. At a bar chatting but doing something active and to also tell the gremlin who lives on my shoulder. That is trying to protect me, but is doing to but of a job. Maybe the tell back ram. When thank you for protecting me for thirty two years, but I don't need you anymore and go on this act: update. So we were recorded that before the quarantine maybe a day
for I was so you didn't get that active data. Actually, I did because I ended up in just a couple days ago, going on a walk with this person six feet apart, while with this first said, which actually ended up being perfect, as is really the only thing we could do and it was active. It was also agreed that this power feels like cheating, but it was kind of nice because it removes any physical pressure off the table like we couldn't touch, we couldn't be. physically affectionate at also for me in a weird way, it was nice because I wasn't thinking like oh no, what's gonna happen. Does he want to touch me? Do I need a touch handwriting guide that does was was totally the the table, so it was really nice and it was. The guy gave my phone number two I enjoyed it, I really enjoyed it loser. Today's, I guess, could continue down as long as you stay six feet.
Oh by the those really the only dates we can have. He had acute suggestion that we could be on something like this and both get the same, groceries and cook. The same time, that's dating right now, as we have to do so. How did this second, when compared with first way waits. I already had the cid across from each other in a restaurant and watch each other to day. This was the second date correct, so this day was better than the first one, like I said, I think part of that is because of the pressure release like I wasn't
gang hard, you say, good enjoy fiscal pressure like guinea that have to worry about whether you're the signal interest, and he could guess you again to the data if he was right to initiate when you weren't interested, but already better the day, was there a kiss at the end of the day, there was not the case at the end of the first day when he did tax me like the next day that he wanted to see me again. So I was anticipating this next ain't having SAM physicality, which makes me anxious, but then that I was sort of taken care of For me I mean it is a little bit, cheating blog urgent, what a turban heard. So it's so, the ways the opposite sex couples day were universally straight. People date is like having at higher up the first cause like so many gay first states include double penetration more than one person in the room where one other seven, the room and TAT S really kid this going.
Her walk, they may be. Gay people should try that sometime. Ok, what I'm so glad you're here, because the axe spur we ve had up to this point has been straight and dresses gay, and so he comes in with a different perspective, and I thought it was really important that we have an expert, that's gay. They can weigh in on some other things, especially just saying, because I think he feels like theirs Some hetero normative ideals and way we operate in and we can place those on the gay community and it's not fair, but there are also gain if we look at it from a different perspective. A lot of what gets down went straight. People dead. is accommodating and working around and us waging a that's very reasonable fear of violence at the hands of that man. like two men. Go into a day with you know a reason. Rotation had their both could emerge from it unmolested, except for as they wish to be molested and alive.
and there's so much violence directed at women by Our partners by without first states that women are always sort of strategizing about safety, illustrate and have a higher bar to clear to prove that their safe to be around Gay men have a less high bar to clear, and I say that as someone who knows fully confident that there is now a mouse the violence. There are terrible gay guys out there in the world, Jeffrey Dahmer, eight, friend Antonia, I'm completely aware that everybody I needed a bar go home with that, first time is it safe by women the strategy around safety in ways that men dulled So what you see, I think, a lot and gay culture is what many women would do if they didn't have to factor in controlling from AL violence interest, Women are just this morning, just as interested impulsive, sometimes even just as interesting and anonymous sex, but with violence.
Since let shaming and the higher risk of disease transmission going from male to female than female melter mail and the hundred percent risk of pregnant. Falling under the woman shoulders. There's a lot more. that women have to control for again, then gay men have to control four year in its tricky, because it almost feels like it's in grain, for women on such a molecular level. That is hard to even parcel out this idea of feeling anxious about physicality feed. Psycho, that's like a personal thing for me or that's because I'm inexperienced in this and that, but there is this layer of safety, that's ingrained of what's going to happen, and is it going to feel good or is it going to be scary or is it going to be? No, there is that element, and there's also, if you can see, into the curse. Often there's a worry that for women. That means have consented to everything exactly em, you know that's the
the roller coaster there's no getting off the right after that. That's the attitude that lot of men bring to that interaction, and so this idea that a woman could, with anyone could withdraw their consent. At any moment, even after things have started, is foreign to a lot of people and what you want to do on a first date. There first few days is determined whether someone is sensitive enough, I've enough reasonable enough safe enough. Then, if you kiss him, though you're not going pressure to do more at that moment, then you feel comfortable doing the best. I can interpreted as green light for everything, and then there can be a lot of pressure and coercion. Yeah yeah yeah. It is hard for me to separate and what part of this is me growing up in a street world and feeling a little shame from, and one is just completely different in the gay culture, and I tried to explain that it comes across as excuses. Sometimes or you don't know what it's like feels very defensive. Ye do catch yourself. Defending gay stereotypes were fighting gay stereotypes. More because I catch myself defending the gay culture them, my freedom
and then I also yell at my good friends like her little girl of grow, the fuck up and not be Peter PAN and let's stop fucking so much. You know, let's have kids, because we can so I see both sides. Will you take a look at straight web? just because you can't have kids doesn't mean you showed that the world is full of straight people who could and shouldn't have Trevor far our superpowers we're gonna, get gets by accident. You can't get drunk and adopt whereby there are definitely things about gay culture. that bring in a lot of toxic masculinity that bringing a lot of dynamics that our necessarily healthy, but there's this pathologies using a gay manning and gay male sex cultures. Based on actions of the people who are trying to kill themselves, basically rang weak, look around and we say people were drinking themselves to death eating themselves to death, and we also see people who are fucking themselves to death and it is easier, fuck yourself to death the engagement
than in straight lad: ass, a man straight men would do everything that game and do it straight. Men could but statement cat because women won't breeders. No heterosexual equivalent of about house gave out there's a whorehouse staffed by volunteers, and if there were such things for straight men, they would go, but they can't female sexual reserve and hesitancy and fear languages. Still by the actions and statements act as a check the sexual, out of control. This straight men can achieve that that its external and Gay men and I think the challenge for gay men- and I say this as someone whose very sex positive who doesn't even monogamy. There was married to some other anymore. Twenty five years ago they had a one night stand with that first night, I'm very pro one night. At a time I met my husband. We have to find the check inside ourselves. What's men have as an external shock unless they're NBA Star, or a billion Erics. We have to find that back inside ourselves. We have to no one.
Pushed back from the cock. Buffeting say you know what I've had it up, because the cock, but they have a gay man and either reasonably attractive as you are, as you know, some people think area of the cap, but there's always open right- and you have to know when you ve had enough. I've had show much copper say that even at forty when I have had relationships, and I want to fall in love and that's what I'm doing this podcast slow down it still. You know I'm horny as fuck during this corona virus like it is crazy? How my audience MR kicking it and I'm talking to guys and render, and no one's meeting, which is great, I'm really glad that no one's doing that fall, forbidden, fruits and added. I honestly think that we should all by stocking condoms, because everyone's can be fucking after this. You know when I say that over and everyone stuck with it,
and so no one wants anywhere kid. So comments are gonna. Go like way. I do not want to invest. In other words, I need a little credit for the Novo prophetically. I think for gay man is always this attraction to what's transgresses of wonder how you break the rules, what Hence the razor transgressing against the expectations, norms, also rules and when you first embrace You're right it as a gay man get are usually the gay thing. It's like a comet, twelve and you're like fuck it. It's not what you wanted and you dread it and then you, eventually embracing be we we spent years jerking of about something we feel terrible about right and we feel like were breaking rules- and we feel remorse and shame and then is it ok man, I think we're right and want to return to that Transgresseth place, because it so intensely felled and there's something intensely fell to get over the first time we gotta dig in your mouth with your out of the closet or not. That was
the moment of like intense transgressing dealing and then we want or career create, that of our adult sex lives and as sex becomes easier and we become more comparable ourselves as gay men. How do we and create that we look for other rules to break. We can't break the rules being gay anymore or feel that you know preside, I've been getting more because we embrace being gave and we're out now What are the rules? We can very well it's gratifiers raw locked in here's, a big the break. Your forty four, fifty five here pretty soon you fortitude. However, one allows you every does it. I feel that what I remember the hiv- and you know the worst year- is that the AIDS crisis- and there were people whose transgressed might not using rights who re created that the intention, if those really does, I think, by transgressing against what had become of him
any normal outcome usage than they would break that role will with prep now people breaking that relieving more people oppressed is prey exposure, probably ass. So there is a pill. It's a travel appeal that you can take daily that ninety nine percent prevents HIV. I'm not a specialist are not a doktor who were basically it's an aids method. You take practically HIV negative men take. It makes the trend, mission of HIV from someone who has it almost impassable upwards of nine percent safety? basically its brought back to get culture. Animals are hookups that involve condom free sacks to boyfriends ago. Was HIV positive TIM? I almost what is more educated on what undetectable meant that he was, and he was HIV positive or thirteen years here. That's the flip side of a proper detectable is out infectious. Arguably safer dab are protected
We could HIV positive pursue noses HIV positive and his madder than to have sex with someone who thinks Is it I didn't like it if I might not be, and we had an interesting. I am because I loved him and we were in a monotonous relationship and he wore cod all the time and understandably, but he shamed me for not even saying like you, don't love yourself and improved came out of two years later and he was like oh undertake to I'm like. I knew this the whole time for our relationship suffered because of its can. I ask in the face, of course, but we do want to give to India that if I did us but what they all over you, I always state younger that, but he was the one that was major property was going to use younger than me interesting. His export. and gave it to him and affected him. Obviously, but I think he had a lot of issues about it, and I didn't because that's enough not my past, so it was interesting. Well, you know, there's something.
Well who had HIV have HIV coup, maybe got stuck and what it meant have HIV. At the moment they found out TAT, HIV and it's longer for them to come around to now proud and equally changed everything: change people's calculus, around safety, didn't what Proteus Inhibitors first came out: an AIDS moved from a death sentence, chronic, manageable elders. People began to make very from choices around fifty. That's what you mean cereal decline of the use of condoms, because people figured they could take not every time they had sex, but sometimes they felt like taking a risk in the moment, knowing their it's kind of a net. With these new treatments that transform what men, TAT, HIV and now like with proper and undertake boycott infectious people make much much different choices. Sex culture that has exploded in the last five years. Ten years really does resigned.
ok male sex cultures, seventies, where there was a lot of when the sacks alot of multi partner sex and no and absurd alot of anal at it from a sometimes it's a little frigate. But that's it. I was involved in that process. It was fun as hell, but I am checking myself and this package is basically that I want to find love and I've been in love a couple times. I fight these old instincts that I have you talk about breaking the rules. I have one of the rules I break as well I need such approval from hot street man like. Why do I need these and I think it's funny, but it's also a little internal homophobia is something that I need I met ducts twenty years ago, I zeroed in on him, and I go I'm and they get this guy to fall in love with me. I loved him so much and it was from my own insecurity and I do it with guys at the Jim, and I do it with you, don't guys
but I work with that. My restaurant and they're all straight tell me what it is it so simple There is this thing is still hate in yourself and you would rather be Somebody who didn't also have this thing that you hey you hated about gay men in this area. Sure sounds, and it makes me Man seem like lesser them. Other made less desirable that other men, I feel so pray for you. I have this sort of opposite wiring in my erotic, motherboard there's! Nothing I think totter than a guy is a fag. I have never like had a phone first rate day of my life, like the Middle EAST, a guy strain on my word,
But this only has an honest. I've gotten show much better with age. I embrace a lot more, but it still that kid on the basketball team, you out the affirmation and they approved here well and that's where we ve learned a residence is episode eight out of ten and that the sort of premise of this is that we both our relationships. We come at them from completely opposite perspectives. Jes is at the college, I say as the first day and I am sitting at the table and not getting off to end and never ever ever getting up and expecting it to come to me and it's obviously not working both to compensate for here to Dick is plentiful, but I am now approaching the birthday I am in the corner of the restaurant waiting for the waiter by recommending I dont know. This applies to often for women that I know who express what you just expressed
if you want to balance those concerns food safety in the vat that, all women have to do with any man that they're going to be alone with particular sir stance, withers, perhaps an expectation that, if by physical balance, that care and caution with some real in a bowl controlled impulsiveness here do you know, things. I've written about a lot in my column is friendship with sleazy start. There are alarming about their than we know about, because if your grandparents, mad in various easy way. You didn't tell you about your parents, madam, you know very likely your parents minute rehab or like a sex in Berlin, and there are straight sex dungeons of Berlin Data. Tell you about it. Parents are swingers they're, not going to tell you about it. So we have this sort of distorted perception of how people in committed and took loving relationships, meat or met, because the people who met sleazy
I and the people who met in the wholesome way tell the truth, and that is just like everybody. Membership so does away you made a partner that you could follow. Love and there's a way you meet. You're, just gonna have sex with and so you wind up disqualifying people that you could fall in love with the south, the telling prophecy in your head. You have this idea in your head than we are but about house. If we met a dungeon, if we had a one night stand, if we met in rehab, if you know I went home, this person. The night I met him were usually of this rule of you know. I have we one five days before it can do anything intimate it disqualify those people, you say couldn't be worthy of because we met at about house couldn't be worthy of law because we had a one night stand. You had a one night stand: you were in the bath ass. You know that you are worthy of love, so I'm not saying, only have impulsive arguing They actually riskier sacks just be open about times of meetings that if you do know, somebody wanted that that that personally feel this impulse and connect.
Can you trust somebody or you feel the desire to do swing transgressive and go to? Will I get so crazy place into a crazy things if you met somebody that place in you, click with that person don't disqualify, Just as I would not want to be disqualified yourself if you're at the cock, parfait reveal doing that and doing that and that's your programme and if your gesture on grinder multiple times a day had don't you think, there's a mentality shift that it has to be explicit for you. That's like I'm, also open to this being long term or like. I just think if you're in the mindset of sex x x, x, x is theirs, base for longevity. In that yes, absolutely debt situational depends on who you end up in bed with you. You know you have a one I'd stand with somebody and there's no real. Like other collection there, you don't spark off them.
Personally, I don't enjoy chatting with if there's a physical thing, but there wasn't any sort of like it an initial emotional. Like click you know, you're about with somebody who, having one I'd, stand and then you like chatting little but afterwards, and then two hours go by that you click has to be felt at both sides referred something to happen, bread to take up that it can be, you know. I also want to say that not everybody at the cock parfait is there because it's their only option in their sad and they really a relationship. Some people want the cock parfait, that's all they want and that's perfectly legitimate. One of the problems in committed longterm relationships is that so many people who don't want them- our sort of hustled into them by sort of a cultural pressure. We ve talked about that a little bit on here, people want to be in relationships. I want to be a good person. I'm going put myself in a relationship a lot of people end up in relationships. It really would be better. You know a lot of asked. He ours, as I call them short term relationships. We talk about L tiaras, all the time and success
EL tiaras, which means somebody died, droughts are met, for success and a committed relationship, but somebody's dad corona by this is going to result in a lot of successful relationships round and what we We also need to have a language I think around. What's a successful short term relationship is successful relationship that both people emerged from alive, and I asked or can be two hours. You know after meeting up on grinder and if you're kind and decent in there Jason. You have great sex. If you crave a little bit more joy to the world, even if there's no click, you can be kind to each other or Successful sdr can be ignored three months and somebody can be the kind of person who has lifetime of successful three month. Sdrs one other thing but I see all the time is that when people are out of relationships they feel like they have to blow them up there. If you like the only way they can lead. Ultimately leave a relationship is if its high conflict and there's anger people will generate conflict and anger to get out or two to justify getting out after
We are six month all the time, rather than just being honest in parting, amicably after three or six months, because you were nasty our type that it's better for us to our times too you gotta see, then too lead multi our types to believe that they might want it out here when they know that their can't that's a lot of people out there who are as to your types who have a kind of thoughts. Consciousness around wanting to be guilty. Our people, whether or not it just like it, Rob, monogamy alot of people out there make monogamist women's day care cape till they can see themselves as a good moral person, but not monogamist, right, so they cite themselves up to believe it. Monogamy is, for that would actually there not for monogamy. I love that interesting. I mean I guess, I'm just looking inwards and being truthful, but yourself. How can you know if you
as to your her. Now. For your time I mean I feel strongly that I do want a long term partner for fulfilment and companionship and all of those reasons, I don't think it societal from me, but I have thought about it: a lot because I've been surrounded by these long, relationships my whole life, my friends, from harm from high school on relationships and then I'm clean up. Our friend group here is a lot of longterm relationships and that's it we're surrounded by so it feels like. Oh, I should do that in the library thought about. It a lot like am I do yes, but where do world do feel like? I want that as well, maybe what it now. But what is your life? Look? Look. What's your history, you know something: I will say to me: I want a monogamous relationship are treated in every relationship. I've ever been in, alas is a monogamist relationship. What you want is what you think you're supposed to work.
It's alone, people's actions is clearly not what they want, but they feel like they're paying in no respect decency by claiming that it's what they want or believing what? While that sort of the background of me is like, essentially I've been fairly anorexic in in relationships in and are all by what I do know that major like they throw up our exit out, I'm leaving only right sorry, my eating disorders must now. Oh now, I just I avoided, and it's been. Our listeners now know all our back stories of time, but it is relevant for you to know in assessing all this is so as an Indian grow in Georgia, and I fell like there was a lot of moments early on in my normative young years, where I felt rejected many times, and I felt that it was because As of things I couldn't control like the color of my skin and my ethnicity and all of these things. So I built up a lot of fan
do like all the relationships I had were in in fantasy Basically, you know like the sea, when I was a freshman who I couldn't have like all these people who I couldn't have because I couldn't have who I wanted for So in your family life you had perfection Zactly. I had people who were better than me, who had something I didn't have, who were perfect, exact You spend a lot of time fairly fantasizing about things that reality. doesnt deliver to you, which can set you up for disappointment, always growing where there is a really oppressive beauty ideology. Culture, is ice in there was where he lived in. Georgia can not just make somebody feel unworthy. Leave somebody with a lifetime of doubt when someone does desire them, because you feel like you're being played, because I'm not what, desire, and so you wanting me makes me doubt whether I'm safe with you
emotionally physically, because it feels like a lie and one hundred percent, but that's just Google com. Behavioral therapy, that's a decision you have to make, I now to say Health is desirable and to be type irrational about it. Did you know that for boys and George all wanted. The same. Skinny blonde doesn't mean that there are men in the world who want what I I have bought in as much as anybody to this a perfect. Why its IRA he'll, be it's crazy, an outcome lately relating it, I'm as pasty white as they com. You can see. The blue in my veins to my arms treads lucidly white, but I was a heavy kid in high school. I was fat and when someone is attracted to me, my They had husband, said to me part of me things you're, lying to me, yeah, no one can ever really big, basically attracted to me. I have a good verbal game.
I ain't, gonna get imagination and some skill set by people who to six percent physical. To actually be. I always thought there's something with them. They must be, is because? No one would want me that wags even today, I have to say no, it's true I have to like argue with me: will myself to believe someone when they say there at night, because even today I doubt it because I'm still that that fourteen year old yeah we're all for fighting that person at all times, We are supported by twos she now this couldn't be more relevant to
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calm, Slash Monica, that's me: Andy's DOT, com, slash body, so circling back to the annex ii, a swipe, shot that valve off at some point and everything was fantasy and nobody who liked me, I was gonna, say yes to because there was something wrong with them, and so I have had no LP hours and asked tiaras being like a couple. Dates Mover MAX, so very, very little engagement in actual relationships, but I dont think weaken
Go based on that history as to what I want, because I do really why my partner, a bunch of yours to yours, the people that you ve had a couple of days worth headed ended. Were you always the one candidate for the most part, yet do you have a law was to deal breakers? I'm totally credit ball yeah. I wanted. You know what Thirty and single, suddenly single, again and heartbroken, it didn't leave the house for three months. Three hats they re brawl facing a year about the first I went out to a gay bar with some friends. I met somebody and went on that's what I wanted as a partner with somebody older than I was somebody who had a real job and not a silly job like I did. I wanted a doctor aware somebody had more education I did, and somebody came here that I was, and I mean at some seven years younger than me didn't the college, worked in a video store and was completely vanilla and tone. Oh yeah
if I had just like said you don't need my criteria, you're out, if I hadn't been open to leg dating again, that's what I thought I wanted to be ignored. Who else here is your passport? You won't data, guess what you think you wanted and I think we're southern with your history and the importance that the does he played in your life? I would say: bear in mind that you can have Bessie compromise reality of a partner and your fantasies to increase putting your fantasies about who your partner is. There is us you know I always like to say you know, there's no the watch out there. There is the point six eight, the euro. The fuck up to one cupids, you ain't, you treat that that's the one you psych herself up to believe that person is the one day the one in your eyes and there's some fudging. There are some things you don't think about. Some things you choose to step around rather than directly can fraud and I think it
relationship, advice, land and counselling, loud and turnips therapy Lynch there's always this desire. like got out the problem and pick out and pick out it at the trick to any Elkhart is the problems you can solve and there are problems that even focusing the murder of the journalist gonna blow it all up there you stop around and there are ones you diffuse and no the difference which it sometimes means like trying and then go get. This is never going to be fixed, so we're going to stop trying to fix it because it creates conflict and mad at each other. So we will just both pretend this. Isn't there right, yeah step a rounded the weapon I'll do what I offer you, my friends, who complain about being single break up with people. for reasons that I think are trifling you're on the ground. In the things that they bring sixty eight percent of what you wanted to the table, the thirty two percent, that's garbage that you have to endure. That's
de la passing gray. That's the curve it. So I will, if I was your relationship coach, encourage you if you get to that date to- and you have assembled that list in your head of why you can't see this person, which is really a photo negative projection of your own insecurities road, why they wouldn't want to see you usually right, establish past history, keep saying that person anyway. Even if you don't mind That's why I see about them, even if they want, while you don't you push back. They want kids, you don't like something that major and disqualifying is major disqualify, but you know push passed like this dove I've seen friends break up with guys over and then complain that their single is ridiculous. I think on the the because all taken any t, r edit your eyes, Europe, because all my relationships have been successful. I love all of them, and I agree with that. Monica for you especially I mean, and as much
sale taken, any tiara pretty picky is well. I mean for me it's physical thing and that's what all these people have been. Tellin me doc said Esther stop getting over. Their looks just maybe it's important, but it's also not the most important thing, but I think that I need to get over that, but you can tell me wrong damage should still go for the guy. I think you should still go for the heart guy archway, so much still shows over, but we don't have anything we're episodes gonna get in trouble. Promote spoke to you know. We often what brings people together at first, whatever kind of people there is some, oh Paul and then there is a lot of due diligence: her diligence around determine. Whether you are a good emotional rain and whether you There are spending time with this person when their dick isn't in your bath. The reason that people want just to pull away from the physicality. It's also not just about the other person's about him. He had its own personal physic.
eighty two that he's making a priority when his personality is so shiny and wonderful, and we are all saying that that has to be at the forefront before these things at your truck to manipulate about yourself, an age when you have something powerful at your fingertips. They, but also what I know to be true for anyone and, as you can tell me this, maybe I'm wrong. I'm opened a viewing, it doesn't matter how hot you are once your inner relationship for twenty years. It doesn't matter, you could still be super hot. That law full of physical attraction. It change stir, still look the exact same scheduled for you you can you walk, but if you do it's not the same but I've seen it. I see in all these couples, and everyone is
being so attractive and the relationship changes. You know the way you see each other changes so to make that the and I'll be all its, not in my opinion, just not smart guy. I agree, and I have I've learned so much from all of these- people, and I see myself growing and changing because of it. So I do agree with you as well. Do you ever hear of were my husband for twenty five years? A lot changes over the decades it port not to take each other for granted. It's important to make an effort, their lot of great companion. the marriage is out there and a lot of great sexual relationships long. What matters is whether both people are happy. You know if you have a sexless marriage and one person's miserable. That's not stay for success. The other sexless marriage is very intimate and loving, and you guys support each other, enjoy spending time together and there's physical intimacy, if not sex, at everyone Happy. That's a great marriage in gay
you'll see a lot of sexual relationships where both partners mob support instrument. We have a great groove, great partnership, that daily life grind technology, but they only have sex, usually with other people, sometimes those people together and that's why they much more common, and Gail and where, but I'll give me is not the default setting the way it is and straight lamp. Do you have an opinion on when that conversation should be brought up? I have a friend that is in a five year relationship in this trying to talk about it. It shouldn't be talked about in the first year. Should it It depends on your settings and expectations right. I think it was gay people demonstrating we should do is discuss monogamy as opt in or opt out. Dad monogamy, like kids, religion, where you want to live, is on the table, and I say that I too, like, as everyone should be an unarmed monogamous relationship. I say this because Bob monogamous relationships to succeed. There should also be
conversation around what it will mean if one or the other kids witches in all EL tiaras, almost inevitable that one person will is that the of the relationship of one person shades. I don't think it should be. I think God so calm in the trail that it should be something that we have the skills that are mostly to try to work during the past, not to save the not monogamist relationships, but to save the monogamous. Once there isn't infidelity that the relationship can survive it and you can get me arguments again I've alongside you know it about the dogma that we talk about virginity you're, forgive urgently. I made it out of her anymore, you're monogamous anti. What else? And that is not monogamous anymore, and we should another argument: when we talk about sobriety that you can change it and get hook, and then you can sober the fuck back up and get monogamous regarding Iraq under Monogamy wagon filigree kind of our field from from the issue around the guilty are making it work. Sort of
which was actually with attraction. I think the thing that sustains production is not really taken for granted. You will not have as much sex at year. Twenty five that you did a date forty five but the sex You have is often better but less frequent, and you want to really communicate to each other. That you're not taking shouted for granted. In the I say, people be very critical. amen unhealthy hours were a ghetto going to the gym and taking care of themselves because that's a projection from Spain, once you have a party not take care of yourself anymore. Take care of yourself was to get a partner, and now you have You can stop but taken care of yourself. how a signal to your partner that you're invested in them, finding you attractive in that way, they did at first that thing that first brought you to gather that physical Paul, that physical attraction, then you're treasure and that you are going to do what you can, despite time, being a bit grind it destroys us off. Do you care to sustain, had, I think, that's really
and then the other way sustained it in an ulterior whether you monogamous raw monogamous, is knowing that, at the start of the relationship, that person was adventure you were on and you were the adventure they were on to you. the risk they were taking. They really the risk you are taking. That gets the adrenaline pumping, very arousing the first time you somebody there could be an ax murder for all. You know you are taking a giant rest, do making use of vulnerable in a way that serious ones, multi, are once you ve lived together for five years once you could identify therefore a roomful of other farts you're. Not then sure they're, not your adventure, and so what you have to do to know, I think die of boredom, is figure out how you gonna adventures together to bring that about your back to your life. back into your life means obviously creating adventures that you as a couple go on together, doesn't mean having three ways: it does mean going to sex dungeons and Berlin. It can mean those things format August.
But let me just shaking up where, when and how you have sex, re creating if a sexual connection and yell terrorism poured into which it has for most people, yeah yeah, yeah, ok, what's happened just a challenge from last week there was a deuce okay, long story, short Patty, the millionaire matchmaker we talked about out of your league, and I thought this guy at my gym was out of my league and her child with her me to ask him out, and they go I've known him for five years I don't feel comfortable, I'm nervous it was a shit shall I was so nervous. I asked him to go to dinner and he said yes and we had a great time and she laughed and everything was good. Then got tricky, I will be full disclosure about the show. He didn't know that this was a challenge you didn't need to know where the town. The point is that you are asking someone out
the day, but you didn't, but using day will first of all, so many people have told us that we are putting too much expectation it by saying this is a date. This isn't a date. This is a date. This The date dirge where'd you created of opportunity, view your card, some little space and time where, if there was some attract, showed that could surface great then told him of the challenge, and it was a little awkward for a couple days at the Germany's like, I feel fine, then we got past that we have a lot of conversations. Everything is good. The next person was asked your peril. He was a big part of that episode. Talking about not having this butterflies and not pulling parameters on a date talked about SAM a lot and at the end of the episode she goes. I want you to listen to this episode with him and I was, I thought, yeah show em between that Monica called him.
And what did you tell what happened and then I'll tell him about how we watch the episode and zoom and listen to it last night that right so before we recorded with Astor, we thought it might be an interesting idea, because Jas called me after his day with SAM. He called me immediately, and he said friends on those friends on immediately is really fine, but I'm in the friends out and also. Why are you saying that? How do you know and then he said, I don't think he thought it was a aid to, I said: ok, look! Where is all this information coming from, and so I had a lot of questions about people's perception, verses, the reality of what is going on and how we're communicating. So we thought it would be interesting if I spoke to say I'm at first it was gonna be on air, but that seemed like a lie: buzz. How that I spoke to him and just have this conversation
because we never get that we never get that in life where we go on these dates, and we don't know What the other half my questions at this I was low cost our people wanting to know what the other person was thinking or feel, as if I have some special ability to pry people's brains are paramount. Then read the tea leaves that they don't usually we gotta get at it, but you got to subpoena depose exactly I did and enforced by his love you wander far and how old is a very good cook authority, rich heart, successful and, of course this is why was in securing. I thought he was out of my leg and so how to the club or go so just hasn't. Her descent and SAM said that I could honest about everything he said? I'm going to be
I have two but jazz. First of all, I guess that he's lovely he's wonderful. He thinks you're magical and special and has like beautiful things to say about you, but what you just said he's forty he's rich he's hot! That's the way you describe. Death, but that's how your ranking in your hat, no riches not appoint. I'm telling you what he is, but it's important. No one has have money that I've ever did it, but the reason he's on a pedestal, for you is clause All these mostly Yolanda vandalism, personality an ambiguous. I spoke enrich our baby forth in future all right, so he told me that five years ago, the first time he met you without the Jim. You came up to her and you said: hey
I'm gonna, be a star to I'm gonna be in this movie shown? No. So when he told me that he wasn't like so I was gross doubt by that or I didn't like that. He was just. That is a memory he has shown but just the reason I am choosing to say. This is because, when you just described him, you'd did describe those things about and I dont want to set out a moment ago- serve the rich, the successful a wealthy thing, whether that makes it more attractive in just that, makes it more marketable but means there's more competition for him, because that something that in four generally, people's army. I, like the guy at the front desk, dense hot, like
success at a money- are not something that has ever gone for ever, but guess there's this thing that SAM was at the gym, because of that that I thought he was out. My leg. Ok continue right, but what he's taking from that interaction is. Oh. This per cent thinks that I had some level of something and that he's connecting with me on that that turned him off. I don't know if it turned about this was five years ago. This I mean yes, I to be eyes. Yes, I think it's a little uncomfortable for him. It uncomfortable for me that even said that only remember that disgusting walked in and by the way he was very play. Who was like I'm not saying people don't values that stuff here he was very self aware in and he's like, I'm also not judging a whole person based on one and around Jen he's totally non NATO. The lesson here is you too often, we're attracted someone we're awkward,
first interaction, first, which is why you don't want that first interaction to be rolled the interaction, often, though the first thing falls out of your mouth burst. Oh, my god, I'm over the first said to my husband first in the foot. Would you say I've been looking? You know. I have no game like I'm very intimidated by the boy thinker, attractive band somebody I personally drugs. You I'd like I've, heard people say that they thought I was mad at them. You know like girl friend, who Many years later is a waiter at a restaurant unfrequented. Just I was glaring when I was actually like taking a bit I was memorizing every details like Jack off about him later been watching. My husband by my bow husband was at this club that I was standing with a drag queen in a corner. By could, I think we all agree that guy with a guy so hard, and then he came up to Kojak to get something. I think he out of his coat pocket home and the dragon said well. Tell him tell him tell him now- and I looked at him and said-
so embarrassing. My husband has a beautiful mouth. I said you have a pretty mouth: very deliverance, very creepy, and he looked at me and said the better to eat you West and walked. Our so loud tat made me. Think: ok, there's you gonna get spyware and let me, but if we didn't stick around like he didn't stick around after it to him. He laughed. I was our first interaction. You know, God high, I got a little drunk or, and we circle back and had our second and third interactions that same night and after getting the awkward first interaction out of the way, we're almost disqualified myself by coming across a serial killer. We, you know most of the second third, our that we actually clicked rain. So What you said to this guy, don't usually Eliza to my husband, initially was operating shutting down with the better to each a weapon. Then, turning on his pretty on walking away, have shut him down. That first comment: you shouldn't awaited
are the heirs to have a second, no rats or I should have had. I should abroad ecstasy that agenda another love, Saunders you. What else did he say? Monica Higgins, not judgmental at all, he thinks you're fantastic. He really does. He said he did not think it was a day, but that's interesting. I was talking to him about this and, like I guess, how clear do we need to be. You know when we're asking people out on dates, unlike also outlawing animals like it doesn't really matter if it's a date or like who cares if just hanging out she's getting to know each other on a deeper level, and he agreed with all that. But then he started talking about another guy or somebody he was into or something and you down your drink and said o K ready the very soul, not true
That's that's your reality and I'm telling you what his reality ass. It is ok, yeah, I'm not embarrassed about that. We drink was half, we will need one drink, it was half his meal and we have so much more conversation. He said you had to drank too. This is my point. point is people have differently. I would ease of what is going on. We can't even agree on how many drinks everyone had. You know it sounds like Lord Bach. Is that good me might be interested in the same way that you are interested in him all these years and if that's Dick is what I want you to take away from this is that you haven't within you to ask the body out o the data you're interested in and go out of date, and this, like friends, that you're getting friends zones is not a thing. People are attracted to or not attracted to her that's. What I'm here
tell these band and Monica Asterix. Like you don't know, if I can grow, I know as a gay male. It sounds attracted to me or not, and that's just the truth. I've had enough sex and I have enough flirting with people that I know that. when some attracted to be, and what somewhat dislikes representative there are you know our examples out there in J Land and I think it's more common in straight land, where people were friends for a while and then traction glue, we're so in those stories, because we wish they were more common than they are that's true people wanted. Called sexual attraction or physical attraction and minimized because it makes us all feel insecure because This is worry about whether attractive enough re to draw that initial interest, but it's almost always physical thing is just that we need to understand and get your heads is that there are billions of people on the planet and there is broader range of physically desirable pray that we allow ourselves to believe because of the beauty ideal that really too.
Prevents us all, including often people who see to the rest of us to meet the beauty, standard and beauty ideal in there are people who are attracted to all different types and kinds of persons and there's not a lid, every part. They don't traffic in that. There's somebody out there for everyone, because some of us are going to be alone and the is or to get create a life yourselves, fulfilling mother, your partner not than to live and false hope or be miserable until a partner com, as if a partner isn't often the beginning of new miseries and partner people who live to be partnered may get dumped me. Another partner could drop dead and then the run partnered again, their life is only happy if we have a partner in their setting themselves up for recurring misery, but there are a lot of people who were attracted a lot of different types of people and for different types of reason. And sometimes the reason someone's attracted to someone has more deal with I want it personality, but more to do with
motion old dynamic that doesn't emerge until they had gone to know them. There is eggs well, even an emotional dynamic Roderick Dynamic. That doesn't, merge until there is a reason they even thrown together again and again, whether its being asked and data you went out and get you another better to do or work brought you together and there's somebody they weren't attracted to physically, but the debts. You got to know the better something sparked and they can. Begin to that, and it creates a physical desire where there was one just from the visuals at first thought is a thing that happens and that's why, for captain hanging out with SAM keep kept on targets, and because of that, I love that you got these notes from him. I think it's so amazing see people's lenses for sure, and I want to make it clear. He at no point in that conversation said
I'm not attracted to Jes when I thought it was a date. I was like. Oh no, like none of that happened at all. His perception was when he started up but another guy in you in his opinion the day ended quickly. He was like. Oh, oh, I think. That's why yeah, but that's all, but what I'm saying is I'm not telling you right now that say: is not interested in you. I dont know. If he's interesting, you that's not what I asked him, but I think sir, I'm told you that won't get into this retards over two hours. Ok, yeah, so go ahead. Show last night we gotta zoom screening, my heart beat. Full disclosure even gave him out. You can just into it and call me, because I was so secure and so nervous- and he goes now do the challenge I go. I love that. I love that, so we got and soon we talk for forty minutes before about corona and life
missing missing the germ, not miss each other and he's a friend of mine that we watch the whole episode. Ah, he cried when I sort of crime on the absurd is his dad died to my dad died at the end of the the episode he just was. Over the moon on the show. You did talk about ourselves, in the episode Super Argos. If you're gonna hurt my feelings, don't say anything, I will learn more from what you don't say than what you do say bill. She said that, and he didn't say the thing about us. He didn't say anything about feelings and he tapped on talking about how much had grown from the show and how much it is lost about I'm from the Show- and it was an amazing conversation and then we hung up- and that is his answer yeah it's in what is sad, but could also what he didn't exactly that he had the art. You ve created the opportunity for him to express a lot,
mutual interest and it's obviously not their heaping some his friend and I consider him my friend The idea of SAM was amazing. The idea salmon. I whatever shall I went down this road. on this point cast about what is an obscure retreat by and be in. His friendship is that much closer now because of it
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slash. Monica for a free online visit and freed to day shipping to this I think a challenge for gay man is gonna. We talk about being sorted into romantic, possibility, we're friends zone. I take the more difficult Falada give added sticking out who our friends, our versus, who are romantic potential partners, are yes, Often, what draws us together can be. fears because abbot actor to you as a friend or am I to you as a potential of interest straight people evidence of this? Is all the commentary received by whether straight mandatory women and be friends straight people typically don't draw our friends from the opposite sex pool right strike eyes. Friends are almost always drake eyes straight women's friends, aroma so other women, hey guys, therefrom
are almost always other gay men and their lovers. also game We have to figure out how to differentiate those, kinds of attraction, which I think can be kind of blurry, You know I would say about SAM though he had ever opportunity to. Let you know that the feeling for mutual than that conversation also at that dinner date. That broke a pattern maybe you guys got for breakfast? Maybe it hung out at his house you'd, never like that They had dinner together alone, I'm sorry, most people can interpret as a date and if, at that time he took the opportunity to tell about someone, he was interested in romantically, that's the equivalent saying it's not you. It's me. It's a flare kind of signalling- the interest or disinterest that gets them off the hook. Spare, as the ego it was a soft like nudge, you back to the french zone, but
signalling to the kind of relationship they has with you, that values obviously acres but this one connection, three doesnt sue as anything else. Otherwise he wouldn't talked about. Even if he had been attracted some other guy and hey I've got. He would know that it would shut on anyone the body with you, if you betcha that other guy at that time- and he chose to me that guy for a reason, and it was too shouted down, I'm sorry to say: yeah we ve talked about other guys for the last five years. So didn't throw me off at all. That's what we do. We have a friendship but Dan. If for saying that most people are point six, eight and more rounding up to. All right, then, now that that others, people are like there are a few out there. That you'll need some point. Six aids needed here
around one of those puckers up towards rank, but so SAM and we spoke, he said which was interesting. He was like when I listened to your show. I relate to you. I connect with you, I'm like you, you know he's not like jes he's like me, where he has these kind of standards that are exactly right that are not too high, but aren't rounding up. Mr Mitchell Burgers, then a lot of leg judging within thirty seconds whether this person is gonna be worthy of being around for a long Reno. He has the same issues that I have a lot of ways, and so I guess my thought was like I can see it, and other people, of course, is so hard to see in Europe but I can see- and other people like, but maybe SAM is just not to the rounding up stage yet, but what if he gets there?
I don't know I mean I guess why would we wait? Who cares like move on, but every? Maybe this is another gay straight difference, but there's just so few people in life men for me that I enjoy so much, but I'm not attracted to where I wouldn't want to spend a ton of time. When you know what I mean, I don't know like for me: the personality and the vibe between me another person physical traction comes next for me. I just feel that maybe that's possible. Our children go to interrogate that because, as a war even internalized, Eliza Lot of cultural messaging, but also out of fear and oh getting to know the guy just caught toward the guy before the physical attraction. It maybe a control for
fear at its a perfectly reasonable fear. Men are testosterone, soap, dick monsters of their a danger and a threat to themselves, in particular danger threat to women, and so it is in your girl, vantage from an evolutionary perspective to really that guy before too bad a guy but that doesn't mean you have the capacity for there to be an initial spark of physical attraction. If you can set that aside You can tell yourself there is guy, typically due from rail safety, that's a reasonable, rational thing to do that! Has combined me that all this must be done before there can be a physical attraction. Then you can say this is my dynamics of what I do that this is why I do it then, stepping outside of that allowing for their products to be an initial physical attacks. to allow yourself to perceive it without them. Feel like. We have that Acta that right, I wanted to highlight you just said, though, about looking at somebody in one
whether there, the person you could round up to the one wondering whether the person could spend your life with if you feel like dating, is you look at somebody is going to have to ask yourself? Can I spend sixty years or fifty years what this person those it's our so hot yeah there The answer is almost always gonna, be here now right rank as its consequential decision will you need to do is look at somebody in sake. Do I enjoy spending time with this person? What I like to spend more time with this person that can turn into fifty here yeah, I'm looking at somebody after two dates and saying all right: absurd. As is this the person. This is the one, in my view, to make them into the one for myself. That's gonna give everybody cold feet, this is getting back to my like wish. We had conversation or an acknowledgment of like two hours is a thing that can be rewarding unsuccessful, guess, there's someone I could spend I would enjoy spending some time with maybe the summer, with
This is somebody that you like would be really pleasant. You know to make plans six months out to go on a vacation leg to take it back. tongs you took. His knelt here is really just the best here that just kept going in going and going beyond everything's a successful short term relationship first before it can be a successful, long term relationship. I put ascii hours on my tinder box well now, because I'm down for Sdr ethic and because people want L tiaras, unlike that'll happen. If that happens, the world here without the successful ass to my personal experiences, our prescriptive, you way. We did. It doesn't work for everybody. I get that, but when I first met my husband It was so not what I wanted, but I was like he'll be a good summer flag, I'm in a bonus twink for the summer that I'm gonna like go, find the right guy for me, read it just kept going and going in going and going in going in people, ask us new the sacred to our success and terrible say we just keep not leaving each other
and you ve said the approach, I love your focusing on the eighty five percent. That's great about him and not the fifteen percent. That's bad! You have to hear what the President Michel, that you will that'd be with somebody else, so silly Lucy. You reckon kind of example, Bud when my efforts are living together is a little bit of this lobby doesnt, but things away. He would make us and would you leave the man is in the mustard on the ham and Brad all out an open and then leave it. But other table water away, and I would follow him robes yelling at him to put the Broadway forecasting the hell away before we can get food poisoning and die a butcher. eight of the sick and then one day Still I like he ass, he made himself the sandwich, I put things away and when he was done, I put the plate in their dishwasher myself it was easier. You know it is here It was not a price of willing to pay to ride this right not that I see a lot of people going, he loses While we all over the floor and no matter how many a yell out about it, never changes in my area
This baby stop yelling at him about it and pick us up and then look around you life and look at that, maybe he's already doing for you and our yelling, you about and is there some reciprocity there is there some balance their yeah. I clean up the kitchen, and has done the lottery for twenty five years. I haven't like folded assured in twenty five years, so like mine, that's about being the only one who lifestyle the counters in the kitchen. I could yeah, but why exactly? I read something once which I thought was so profound in I think relationships, but also in working relationships across the board, where, if you think you're doing seventy five percent of the work you are doing, fifty everyone thinks are doing more than the people and the truth is there's just things you aren't seeing that they're doing for you or for the girl
four for everything and in its implore, I have to think about that all the time, because I sometimes fall into the trap of like I'm doing every the Rose revolution is recruiting. There's a good trigger goods. The pure border police work but the ashes of is a surprise. Mr Myspace Data Watch. I've always wanted children, that's a state. The price is one about appear to be with this person the above the answer that question they're not my physical ideal, but they bring so much else emotional table, I'm still physically attractive them. Is you know if it's him August relationship never getting to get with someone who is my fears, by the price of admission. Unwilling to pay to be with this person knew everything about the relationship can be filtered through the trick of paying the price of admission is once you pay. If you don't, about it. You don't complain about writing this right. Getting that rollercoaster was worth the five bucks you don't spend your entire Tubman rollercoaster complaining about the ticket price right for picking up after my husband's prohibition and willing to pay. Don't complain to him about it. My complaint,
their people about it, but I think that that piece of advice is extremely helpful, probably for people currently right now we're stuck at home with their significant others and their children, and it's a new world, a lot of people in that way. I think that the flaws are feeling glaring, jerk, you know their under a magnifying glass, and so this is good to remember the flaws that's crazy, yet the bottom up it is this feeling of in consideration. My feelings are being taken to consider. Asian drive me crazy. When you leave your underwear all over the floor, why can't you be considerate and remembered it put it away and the trick, But if you go to pay, the price of like being the one who rose things in the hamper is to look for other ways that Europeans have been taken into consideration, that you don't feel acutely aware of all the time, because the feelings are being taken into consideration your partner, Isn T x or is doing why out of consideration
but they have some sort of blind spot around Z and there never get it able to like nail that answer is that the price but you're willing to pay to keep acts of. Why coming you know, you have to highlight yourself the ways in which sometimes your feelings have been taken into consideration what they have been taken into consideration? The issue is resolved, and so out in the forefront of your mind, but there as you know, however, strongly feel about something, as other is unlikely to be a change because no person that just like attack, in order to find somebody out there who is ticketless evocative also there who doesn't have a million little things tat. They do that may drive you crazy. If you spend your time focusing on them are trying to change them. Yeah I actually after Gregg, I had a friend with benefits, fuck buddy for four years and eventually had to kind of end it, because I think he was in the way,
of be finding love. Why couldn't? If I live with him, what was about him? Like somebody, had a four year successful, that's a successful onto relate, I shall always Davis, archer and weak. He called me the other day and he's listening to this, without fire. To any goes. I didn't know all these things about you, because you're, my friend Natalie think someone to end up with you, and I hope this is the sort of Lear thing and I laughed, and we after that it goes its the best sex I've ever had. I got me too, but I tried to date. You archer you treat me like a fuck buddy because I know I'm so sorry. You're right, I t doesn't takes me back the text taxpayer two in the morning it just disrespectful and I go I don't know considering your messing up with for the first couple years, also flattered, because I've never been used for those beneath my
My comment is or how were by friendship so to be used for sex for so long. I loved it, but they can t got to appoint, were key, wasn't respecting me as a person, but thousand interested conversation I had a week ago and now he's in love. The east coast of this family is guaranteed, and so I just thought there was interesting, but that is another person in my life tat I ve never considered and he successful and cute and funny and yet so other rapture berry hub Gregg. If you also, if he's had some breakthrough epiphany around the ways, I'll. Do it arms length that made you feel like you could never patient ship with him he was defensively because maternal Islamophobia or whatever treating you like a fuck buddy, bigger it is worthy of our relationship Did you see the relationship that were staring him in the face of the potential possibility for it and has come through that data again
so that this idea that some people have is like we hung out. We had sex like eight years ago couple years and it was great boat, but it didn't work out, therefore permanently disqualified, from any consideration as a potential partners. No, no! No, like people learn and change and grow and can sometimes appreciate later something about you or your I feel that they were in the right place to appreciate, run your fucking well within the four years. I have brought them up and made efforts to go on dates and he does work times. I have two only can do fifty percent the work, and I am coming. With just being his friends, maybe, but it was just an interesting conversation that have from this pod cast. A lot of these people are coming out of the wood works and even goes. I don't feel so. Jenny now, because you used me for sex goes. I didn't know you why you re using me for sex, so much enjoyment, you didn't do The government I just came out- and I wanted to you- Know-
he's a little. I feel so much better. I always thought it was me. Oh, my god, that's heartbreaking, yeah! It's really interesting to hear what, we'll make it about, and how much I mean it about me and how Samuel about him an argument about him say or do I want a link to things guys just said you said you didn't want to do more than that. Percent of the work. He said that there are times we have not even aware of the work the other person is doing here. We are clearly aware of how much we ve done an hour. you're contributing to our relationship and often we can't see what the other person is doing so being count around whose doing how much now much work. I mean relationship you're out assessment, the about Europe, doing is going to be off. Also, Looking around a lot relationships were, one person does more than work gear and If you say, if I'm doing more than half the work I a in this relationship, you might then shouted. What could have been a longterm? Loving, relationship where you did sexting percent of the work and how awful is that right, reticent,
session with completely equal contributions, whether financially or emotionally, even sexual, we can. undermine relationships that they're all imperfect. Every relationship is kind of a you know, jalopy just trembling, along with like parts following up on the way to the funeral home for one person embedded successful relationship, and we spend so much time. Looking in wanting to make sure you know Esther writes about this, I think beautifully. We expected so much for my relationships now what a village used to give us we now I'm from our relations all emotional support, all intimacy, friendship, sexual connection, that last for decades and has just as hard thirty years and as it was thirty minutes and we ve Thus the expectations that we place on our relationships are, then they collapse from the weight of What are those unrealistic expectations is there won't be times were, I'm doing more than half the work. You know it s a very long time. Why sure there's an avenue flow there, maybe you're gonna do
more of the work at the beginning and then, or maybe a time later in relation to where they do more of the work and it may be imposed on them. Maybe ten years every one of you has a health crisis and the person who never did anything to keep the home. But suddenly the person doing everything to keep the home up and you're cashed in your chits around. Who is doing how much for whom them right. It's true, yeah. We argued so hung up on this contribution. Equality, fairness. I think, because we connected to our world like, oh you, you must not respect me. If you don't got that plate like we equate our whole beef, but would also be good, ought to be taken of those are filigree fools yeah, but a butcher. This quote from Shakespeare from the terminals. my group feels it. So what fools these lovers baby is universal and applies to us all. We are Of course, we have this anxiety role being played fruitful, are taken. manage of biased,
The dating you will be played for a fool at times by your romantic partner, and you owe me Advantage of you will also do that to them. Yeah just that there's no elsewhere without wrongs committed betrayal forgiveness, is, and there Well, tiara. If you have a long list of deal breakers or if you treat every day like a hunt for the day, breaker hunt. For the reason I can't see this person, which so many people do, Like I'm an do my forensic account figure out. Gonna run the math, read it through my computer problem throughout heart, disqualify this person and confirm for myself that I'm not are they or there's no one out there, whose worthy of me right then going on that day. Looking for the things about that person that could compensate for the things about the person you dont, like sometimes Those things are only revealed doctor This is our side and children are made my ass trail.
Ok, so we need challenge partly by next. It sounds like just supposed to mere bans. March soldiers are similar but different, I think better use something's lazy and take a risk, but because we have the safety control now, that's a different kind of safety control, which is social distancing, which means bring something sleazy on your phone quickly. Acting with some one and having fun dogs or had already having a video chat with someone? That's erotic, if that's what you feel like you can do, you know about to wait on the phone with somebody. You can help somebody else masturbate on the phone. You can the person whose, like list hearing, sharing their fantasy building on and a little bit by connect with somebody, sleazy way I am not so easy way. Ok, and is this someone I'm already connected with it,
New Lando. Oh there's a lot of all the arts right now we are looking to a pistol at a time and hope I dont setting high bar for you weren't. I, like really money, could be one of the two guys you seeing oh sure, turnouts, so random everyone screw things up with the guys receding, make it one of the guys you're saying but like need to be able to read out two tracks either with a guy you're dating where there is sometimes you know, there's the like things you upper emotionally in the comforts you want problem, but you also want to feel like it can be sleazy and get down with now because you don't want that in a relationship and Ethan's dad thing that they don't want from? You were screws up. The release. you're gonna be other per se. A right of others lot like this. When great relationships other than sleazy starts, and we don't know about it. That's leases darkened really bombed, who break as it is at its part about what's a blow: exciting and adventurous by the initial. It is a relationship, but he had to say crazy. Sleazy start you ve, always
the story and because people don't share those particular stories, you ve gotta secret now, but you'll be shared next week what they hear you act of atmospheric. Oh, my god, ok warm terrified! So that sets a challenge. oh yeah. I want you to have its about sex with Archer help impasse in time in corn team. If his game, you know we have it as we can sensual again tell you, no regular guys had great sacks. There is already like justice SAM signal to disinterest by saying you know about this guy merely into at the dinner that you went out, Archer has signalled good interest. He just told you that is best. And tell him that your who he thinks he's gonna wind up with which has hampered It is best friends, mouth his own, which rights it will cover? They works count that, but then, after you guys come stay on the phone for another hour. Oh my god
don't come in like I just came shames and they come and then hang out. I'm not trying to get out of this. To be honest, but I am thinking what, if we had an actual date since we ve had sex so much what if we have a date, What d you the other! I want you to do that when you have a date for sex you have a date after all. I guess you want but about. Why said, like one thing like really worked about you too, without a strong sexual connection, and I'm tell into lean into a lead with that. The second I the culture is telling you that you should set that aside right and just One day, I'm telling you bring that under the day, because if you What you wind up together! It's gonna, be in part because about sexual connection. That was always so strong. So that's a strength in your connection to archer why you to lead with what works about the relationship rather than saying to figure out this fishing ship works. We need to set aside what we know works. Its
super uncomfortable, and neither do I like you and now we have to do it. Does you earlier? and then about sex with them before you on, like Monica, is via the hard times a thousand of every challenge combined. This is the scariest challenge. ever Monica have you ever had phone sex Monica no shaking her head. this week if you're one of your sort of issues are stumbling blocks and like that I can. your blushing, we're a video chat. I conceive logics around establishing a relationship is this fear that on some level that you are undesirable, this, like the psychic scars from childhood- and this doubt that this person, whose expressing a kind of like that appropriately, I know of
I being that had courtly romantic, formal way, his interest in you and you doubting that that he might is actually attracted to when up what's doing something sleazy with you. There is no doubt that their into an interview, it is pure and is still the desire. So you getting online and like having a sleazy like connection that safe because you just it but pictures like do it, but just a chat with phone. You can tonight So have I like a successful interaction it was all done. With tax messages to carry on you, ve got a fantasy spell out. I want you to do something sleazy at a distance. I have to buy a new deal down. My dildos are big enough that cover I'm thinking about already Dick, oh, oh, my god I'm cooped up corona there still delivering
We know that for a fax is essential. I accept that this was a me, damn Dan. Thank you. So much this was really wonderful and helpful. Take you goes was really great chatting with you and thank you for inviting me to be a part of this experiment because, like with your challenges, thank you. Thank you. bye