Rob Lowe (The Outsiders, St. Elmo’s Fire, The West Wing, Parks and Recreation) is an American actor, producer, and director. Rob chats with the Armchair Expert about moving to Malibu as a child and feeling out of place, his time and ultimate departure from The West Wing and going to high school with many famous faces before they were famous. Dax asks about his navigation through negative public moments and Rob talks about his experience on The Outsiders. The two talk about sobriety and Rob’s foresight that caused him to move away from Hollywood.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome what I try to go extra loaded. Welcome! Welcome! Welcome an armchair expert, I'm dash upper hello. Can you go well? The welcome welcome darned, our expert. That's let me try a little by little collateral, dont voice. I don't want to go to school. Welcome does tat. I can do well Maybe that's that's a whole different target. I'm sorry raw block raw rob, let well your name, the audience a minute, your mouse Patman Mantra, Millsboro. Today we have run a blow. You know Rob Logan, damn if our raw blows throw your three or four the window now just get to know. I know you you dont know could crash your car. New telephone rob low is an actor producer. Andy
Acta is also a damn good writer, as will get into. He is one to screen actors, Gill towards the nominated for six golden gloves. And nominated for primetime. Emmy he's been in some of my favorite movies. Of course outsiders at the top of that list, which we talk, paunch about there's so much tasty gossip So more than normal is is it feels like you're gettin, a real inside scoop on some old Hollywood tale? I really loves talking around and he has a podcast as well. You can listen and scribe to literally with raw blow on Apple podcast, Google, Podcast Spotify Stitches in all your major podcast apps. That is coming soon, so keep your eyes peeled for literally with rob locally enjoy Mr Rob low. We are supported by my very very favorite, supplement athletic green
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he's so where you were right now, I'm up admonished pseudo where I live and hunkered down with my wife and my two boy, is in one of their friends, and we ve been universe, count the days I know I am, but I think we're both attics right. So we love isolation anywhere we arrive at last I have always making a puzzle And I was like good night is to isolate. yeah, I'm like you if isolation we're in the Olympics, I'd be Michael Phelps, multiple Goldwater and in isolation yeah, but do we have different things. I really enjoyed the powder variety of that cocaine where you want where you are ready. I, like the old school references, to ski
Vivian marching powder. Schneider aid, oh Jack was always the gross like Gatt came out right before every started. Doing speed right. I think right right, you had money during your addiction and I was pretty broke, so I was getting mostly gap with a lotta gasoline energizing. I think Diuretic was always might go to Are you a dollar cornucopia? Then right you enjoyed all this stuff. I enjoyed pretty much all of a bit like anything else it for me. It always started with that First Heineken or what for it was leg, is like I'm having a beer. London IVF all with the boys having a beer than the two days later, I'm still staring at the screen, but does nothing on it aims, aims aim since I am like I'm going, I'm gonna have a beer while I cook dinner and then literally cut to three days later, like I did. I even finished that dinner. Didn't we eat it
where we know you need it Romania is darts, is something really social and then I always found myself. You know the end of it, just fire and off emails. You now for five page e mails: just pull up up up up up up above us, so much to say so, eloquent so articulate is the scene and Jerry Maguire yeah he's all screwed up rights of than it can't take back to give write anything to anybody that you regretted off all of them in the clear light a day I was like. No one wants to be this intimate with me. No one wants to hear this sexual of thoughts yeah, none of it was within the parameters of what a normal pursuit. What's that year, I got lucky in that I got out of the game before Coke was really cheap, before there was Viagra alright now was narrowly sleeping pills, easily available and
for face time and all of that cause it that combination, yeah would kill me. I just missed it. Man there would be of video record trail of all of my middle bread in reptilian thoughts and actions documented forever. There is no question of now it's I look back on it and gum, I'm actually glad. I did all that. I really am cause. I get her out of my system and I learned so much and it makes me how can a lie that was fucking awesome or we would have done it yet great. I want all those memories I just want to do it anymore, one hundred percent along those that you have a long time right. The things go to plan I'll, be thirty year in May. That is rising. Thank he regulation here. So over the thirty years, so I've been clean for about fifteen half years. An something is have come out, or am I doing? I think I will
of enjoyed that now. So I'm curious, like ecstasy a thing right. Thirty years ago, dude you ever feel sad. Aren't you didn't things? I took a stab at it, but the problem it was new by the way I was shooting movie in Dallas, Texas, called square dance. The night club that was there was called the stark club- oh that's a very famous, very famous in theirs, there's a documentary, but they they would give you ecstasy. When you walked in the door Y yeah yeah was not only and it was like invented and I'm gonna get this wrong, but it was invented in some laboratory there and it was. It was meant as a mind awakened, but it was not a legal and it was at the very very beginning, and I went, of course, everyone if they were handed out to you, but that was its earliest adoration. So I always wondered: did they make it better to they make it worse, good for you good for you so so so I happen to know the history, because I'm a junkie and add and Germans invented it right part of their work.
reparations is we got all the patents to their medicine, and so it was just that formula her empty and may was sitting in a book. Someone decided to concoct it. They tried it. They thought all this, as there are pudica purposes, they start using it in taxes for therapy, and then it made its way to that night club. You went to you lucky Motherfucker Horn and the in then it took off, but but I took ecstasy right so was probably cut with math quite often or heroin or whatever. But now I understand Molly is pure, Mary and I have friends as it there's no hang over, and I my are you kidding me that I could add that experience and no hang over that exists today. I know the other thing This is kind of like a little bit like only once or twice here was magic, mushrooms, settle laughed and last year is also part of me. Really into what is it where it goes down the rain Forest and Iowa Iowa? scale, but then I think it would be fun to see visions learn about the Universe secrets right.
Agree. I agree, I you know I'm on the fence Unix Michael Polymer, of this great book about it, and there are definite therapeutic advantages to that too, diminishing your sense of self. I do think I mean I don't trust myself to administer it, but you know I could see not be very judgment of someone did it with a therapist and stuff. Well, there's also a school of thought that that it helps addiction in some way. I know people who ve tried it in that capacity, but the people that I know who ve done it and got in a lot from where the people who are doing as a sort of spiritual mind awakening Zen. Adaptation, whatever the hell kind of way out, but I dont want us. I don't want to be like the straw that I always heard enough. It's true is that Brian Wilson of the beach boys literally took one hit of acid and was never the same right right one. You never know what's in the stew right and all it takes is one bad one incident and and you're done, that's how? What are your kids
in the weeks and wondering what you tell him about drugs. I I've been through my boys, I'm so glad you just said that, because I was gonna, ask you this something which is, I am pro Michael turn doing mushrooms at some point. I do think it. It will aid, there's a lot of different studies that have pretty conclusive be shown that you have long lasting, creative advantages. Right, like you, people would have done. Mushrooms have markedly more creativity that lot that last so yeah, I guess I'm gonna, my girls to do shrooms in to smoke and drank, and just don't do cocaine or opiates. If you don't do those two things You'll likely be able to do all the other ones for the rest, your life. What if you get involved with those two it's broken and the Party or LISA did for me, what about you? What about you? What it what's, I agree with that the wild card, though, is adder all that's what kids kids today we are doing here is about. They tell me that why would we do coke when we had when we do? After all,
Everyone has a right and everybody has it, and I n you know like for my oldest son Matthew, it saved his life study and lit literally he went to Duke Gradual there, their winter Loyola LAW School graduated their past, the bar that kid doesn't pass and me those tests for sure yeah without its a great thing, but it's so easily abused the end there doing it for sure now do you think you have any adhd or any of that stuff grown up? Oh for sure, when all my kids get tested with every battery everything you it. I made the mistake of doing it as well. I Part of it was an iq test. And and IQ test as it is the whole thing it's like. Not the very We were given, if maybe we're governance your words like five pages and it's kind of over at cigarettes x, seven different tests and very very, very in depth and turns out. I have the mental capacity
I'd like a nine year old. Now allow, oh, no it I'm telling you. I should never have done it, because I know what my eyes, what my I q is. I would never I wouldn't leave the house, I be like what does not grow amount to anything about accomplish anything, but on a certain part of it. I was like Super Human rights superhuman like that. I've never seen anybody test. This high in this one and the other users looking at me like work all the sort of spatial staff words like a giant game of TAT trusts and I'm like I dont know how to put that shape with that shape. I'd say that kind of begs the question. I was wonder I mean there's clearly and I am not making a case against it, but there is clearly advantages to labeling kids things, but at the same time I worry what labels do so to your point, if you found out when you're eighteen that you
no, you were scoring a ninth grade level. with that of limited view when you have readjusted your your sites, it is not. Does that it's, the ignorance is blessed thing I mean you know the stout I'm sure and whenever I tell other people at their just shocked that in the screen actors, guilt right. This is the guild your in, if you're lucky enough, to be a professional actor right, so in that killed. Ninety nine percent of the guild does not make enough money to support themselves, yeah yeah. Now, if you, if you told me that one I was having to decide whether I was gonna go to. U s c, to study. I gonna be marine biology or whatever or drop out too go to a movie. I D been: maybe I better stick with marine biology thing. Yeah yeah. I totally agree now on that topic. I,
loved you as someone who grub watching young blood class somewhat. Yes, I want an older woman. I want my buddies mom I mean whatever you were doing on screen on my sign fuck up, so I had that version of you. Then, as someone who loves to read Vanity fair they published in an extra. Maybe I was an entire chapter of your book stories. I So my friends, that's one of the best things, a red and vanity fair. I was like this mother. Fucker is a great writer in what I gathered from reading. It was got. It seems like you were little aware of what an experience I'm having like it doesn't seem like it just blew by rights on now. I talking about you getting Cason outside as well. For us all, thank you for that and it's funny talking. Fellow, actually, there was a time when, being on the cover of vanity, Fair was like you'd, arrive, It was on the list of winning this award, winning that awarding it out. Out my movie career even into the west. Why?
never been on the cover of vanity fair and that I got the cover. Finally, and it wasn't about acting. It was about my writing yeah one of the weirdest universe message things ever I'm really proud of that biggest. When I was going through the outsiders process, we all knew it was me. First look at was Coppola. right apocalypse now was still in the Zeit guys, but the movie that was out at the time was one from the heart which was really commercial on the cover of time magazine really Spencer, if he be your better. Alongside it, didn't really perform, and so he was the guy and you know with the godfather his body of work. The notion that he was gonna make a movie with nothing but young actors in it. My men if it is auditioning for months like months and
every single breathing actor that you remotely knew you would see their cause, they ever they did it at the same time and it was just there would never be an casting situation like that, because is actually not allowed? You can't have an accurate come in for nine o clock reading in knots, home until ten o clock at night, gender. This was not a big rule. Follower yeah, I'm the best. I'm no work with anyone. Is you work with a genius that just got his ass kicked or her ass kicked? Unlike that's what you want to work with that person when they, even when their on fire again too, to reclaim their brilliance and yeah? That was that time, but I think we would be fascinating to people as you know, you were born in Virginia and then you went to. Did you? Do you? I end date, no I'll. I moved from Dayton out here in the seventh grade. What age had you move to date? No harm Oh, I was six months old, so I'm just bleary born in Virginia and my dad was
You had graduated law school there and they moved immediately to his job and date, and that's really where I grew up until I was about twelve or thirteen ok, and now I was just up. I seventy five about three hours from you in Michigan, and so I have to imagine that the childhoods were somewhat similar right. Like I got over, I gotta Jim, like brute strength, ruled the Is that that accurate, brute strength to skin leave eyes, I remember rolling into Malibu in the summer one seventy six in, what I would have worn in Ohio at the time and just having people when a pound me because I didn't wear shorts are short in the summer? You are cut off Levi's, maybe yeah back where we came from Moving from Ohio to Malibu was insane because Malibu in those days was like Lord of the fly is meets. The ice Storm meets ordinary people meets Boogie night.
Smits endless summer, but directed by swingers on blow Ok now, so and again, I'm gonna be projecting a bit and I'm gonna make make some assumptions and I'll never mean to offend in this process, but I have to imagine what a graceful relocation for you, because you're gorgeous annual artistic and that might not have been the best place for you to explore that dignity. I'll cares. What what's interesting about it and life is nothing if not unexpected, you're right, but Indeed, I have found my people like. I had found a theatre group and I was doing every young actor part, and then I moved it California, which you think would be a hotbed of it. It's near Hollywood, but those days
alibi might as well have been five million miles away. It was before our business turned completely to feature young people. It was still in adults only business and they weren't haven't where I was pretty. I was like already and everybody there was like a rough hewn blonde Adonis beat volleyball plan. You know which I beach. What the hell are playing a pie tackle football with you down at the schoolyard, but I'm not doing so, actually was even worse for me, weirdly enough coming MA, interesting, genuine You and Santa Monica High right when malady park, junior high schools now the high school and and then Santa Monica High and a bunch of great? I mean depends Sean Chris Penn were in my orbit. Charlie, sheen and Emilio Robber, Downy Junior was my history class low
I just want to really I wanted to see if any who's, not read your book. I read that article I happen to have a really great friend, Larry trailing who went to school there at that time as well. Anyway, tell me who the classmates were, I think it's inconceivable this when that lives in Michigan that you could be in a high school with fucking champagne, Crispin, Jeanne, brothers and already J. I mean that's bonkers in we didn't think anything of it and frankly, I was the one who is really into acting already. I'm trying to think of any of the of that group was theirs, vaguely interested but I was, I think, I'm as I always in that bad boys movie. Quite young, wasn't he that wasn't. That was still much later, because he did not always right before I did class oh wow, whose older Sean's older than I am, I think, using three years he was now in my disease through your history, years, older Emilio was a two years older Charlie. A year younger. I was Chris,
spends age and in Dounia in our exactly the same age. Ok, so Imagine the young lady, and what was it history? You guys we're together what what working class he and I were in down. He and I were in history together not a chance. Any gale is learning a fuck now thing about history. Now, would you look to your left at Rob, lower? Look you write it down. I mean nine unfair. It's like no one cared, how we live sizeable. No, one of them cared about me or him. They did not work, Is it because you guys weren't, big beach, bum thugs, we're on a football we were on the baseball team. We word beach, volleyball players. We also were like Nora Lee weird o. Whatever either we are just like regular vaguely art the stick kite frankly, a little bit of pleasure to have
class law, but a guy. I know my way around of all their I mean I don't famously was in madrigals, which I loved you not madrigals art. Is Europe madrigals in your high school now it's this. How much public education is changed, it was a choir, this only latin hymns. Oh, my poor talk about me our dj hit net that kind of shit was brilliantly as an outstanding voice. So I can't I am that shocked. Yeah, ok! So when you went on this audition for outsiders, Are you seeing all these different classmates? I assume that many of those guys all read for that is well known. Was getting it was a lot of them had made the choice to be pro actors. Ya, like Ireland was gonna, be a pro baseball player. He could he could throw the high eighties at that point he was really really good. Ethics,
and was nibbling around the edges. Emilio was thinking about it and by the time voters rolled round. He was definitely in the hunt behind it was crazy. You'd like making work, would roll in thinking to high Heaven on roller skates, forgotten something tat night and then, and then you'd have like you know. Scott bail from happy days would be: do to hinder scene with the kid from E. It was saying it was really crazy, so you were pretty darn closer Charlie right. You spend a lot of time at their house and Martin kind. It took you under his wing, as I recall in that because you're are your parents got divorced rise at proceeded, given Malibu that's right so we we moved out with my mom in her new boyfriend soon to be my new stepfather and so did eating more much like just kind of hip to that wanted to be extra support of what he was, he was the neighbourhood cool dad it again. Ever as that, dad that, like MIKE Bum, smoke If your. If, if he's in the right,
maybe he'd bias and beard out at the market making. For sure, always pick you up when you're hitchhiking that was Martin. He was that guy yeah, that's as having come from Dayton. Are you had to be started? by the whole, thorough right that you, like a year ago, your fuckin doing God knows what in Dayton and now you're sitting in Martin Sheen's living room in Apocalypse now was just a few years ago I mean Malibu, didn't have that many famous people in it, then so and was very famous he's when the few actors that live there, but he was never around because he was doing this movie apocalypse now and so he was ever around, and then he came home from that movie apocalypse now very miss curious and which in ways might have been worse than Vietnam itself for certain people, while for him,
for sure I remember when I when I got the outsiders I asked Martin about accede odyssey been through the ringer with Francis nice Adieu any advice, and he said if Francis asked you to do something you don't wanna, do don't do it, I thought I don't even want to know where that's coming from the advice, you guys what that in Arkansas Right Oklahoma, Oklahoma, Tulsa one may favour parts of your story is good. Into the hotel, checking in learning that France's in his wisdom has given the Social, the backers plain, the social therein better rooms and they have more per diem totally and when you're checking in your checking them with the Young Tom Cruise in you, the room is not to his liking. Is that is that others or he, yes, that part of it was when we
Two new: you all the allay people's survived, the Alley auditions and then had the handpicked people had to go to New York to face the New York version. and so it was me and Tom Cruise and Emilio and see Thomas Howl, and we got for some overstate, the Plaza Hotel and we check in and Tom finds out that were sharing a room, o k Then she such occurrences ball, and you know we ve been put to me with great about this worry is there are certain people who have always been who they are and that element of them has power. them to where they are today and the rest, is history. And I'm notion that a ten year old actor with a gone part in and love like a seventh lead in taps, could have that car.
kind of like wherewithal yeah. No, I run going while this guy is the real deal I mean it made me, laugh was narrowly, but at the end of it you can argue with the results he's at his eye the ball since day, one that's what I like about it to its like no one knocks on anyone's door and says: hey you, wanna fuck him be in twelve mission, impossible Zau works like those people. That way and they make it happen. I there's something you know oddly interesting about that I've gone down the rabbit whole recently of watching these on Youtube behind The scenes of mission impossible, all the stunts the Tom's doing and Tom yes, and it took me back man to being in the Tulsa. gymnasium, where we had to learn to do back, flips front for whatever reason, it's his head in his head that he wanted to do for France and a lot ideas that what was going on, but you know, if you ve, tried you back puppets
really scary like using only fallen break your neck. It's not easy. I owed People who can do back lives on the same level as road scholars. I literally, I think its most fantastic physical feed. Someone can do it in its heart is fuck to learn Anna. Tom was relentlessly competitive that being the only one who can do a back for it is in the movie the outsiders from all. I remember it. He runs out of the house and does a backup for no reason just to do it, but people who do back clubs. That is what they do. They are for no reason our foreign Ryan hands does them every couple hours. So it's a thing also a really sweet fence stunt and I want to say was that crews to or was that, suavely someone takes the fence and they do kind of it nasty move in and they who is that that's Patrick showing off
Here's the like nor Lee, gymnast scooted valet skills cause got a little bit of a way undertone to it, the there's an elegant to that's undeniable. We are all trying to pull focus I'm not going with a bunch of like seven shots. I remember what that when they were doing the the first trailer they wanted to find closeups of the actors and only havoc two of them in a movie barely find one, because every business three shudder Afore shot, so everybody was and everything they could to pull focus. Finally, I figured like I I'd seen, represent a shower and I decided to like do their work we do it alone by a towel almost fell. I fear like that was my own lack. Where, in my thing I could do or focus will be they I fucking love. I mean the fact that you're, like sway He had already lived. Twenty lives, he was already a carpenter, a barren of football star, a gymnast. I was
nuclear physicist before audition. For France's I mean, like I know how much of it was here's. The thing is, I know for sure some of it had to have been bullshit, but everything I ever checked on, was true I thought you'd be like waiting he didn't qualify for the Olympics, archery ditty and then you'd make a few phone calls and find out. I mean There is nothing that man couldn't do nothing literally no can do on you. Blood. He he's guys we're like you, you get in the van to go to work and you realize they up all night, but I beg what are you doing up working on my music? Ok, so he would like work on his music and do upside down pushups against the wall. You know it like that was his via his jam at night and trying to get us to put this song she's like the wind. It young blood and we're like that Can awful song in this movie? It's not happening and
two years later, to number one hit from dirty dancing guy, bless my I realize you saying that I'm gonna go no idea, I'm sure he did the sound engineering and everything on it. Why are you so we get, you guys did Youngblood together, you get on with them pretty. Well, I loved him. He is awesome. You really looking back on it. Wasn't that much older, but he was Mary, need any been married a number of years, so it his life to me seemed like two lifetimes ahead of where I would so. I really looked at him much more like a brother or a father figure almost then than appear for sure, because you'd need lived a thousand lifetimes already, but diminution. He was an iron and he would go and go and go and go and go and go yeah stay to arm chair armchair expert, we are supported by square space. You should have a website, you know chow,
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shit made me want to be a movies and at all kind of is it weird? It's gotta be weird to you. You look at people right and then you become those people, and yet you don't feel like you could possibly be one of those people. Rightly users like some kind of level of fraudulent nets that you feel when you say that I got that while he is clearly a pie again on something that can possibly be big yet yet you never think that you're in the category of your heroes, I don't know, I think, it's possible. That's and don't you think- and this is part of a sobriety thing in Asia thing is, you have a fantasy and then you think war hi become Paul Newman. ever they'll be an accompanying feeling. I'm gonna feel a certain. And I'm gonna look in the mirror and see myself in a new way and then, when you get there in, that, has not happened, Even on my lesser level. I certainly thought it feel a certain way that a day-
and I wonder, do you think that's part of word diction play so perfectly into it- is that you ve got into this thing: you have this fantasy now here I am, and I have this in the bank account among this poster and yet where's the MAGIC self esteem I was supposed to get, but that's people go. He had everything I don't. stand. How we could all use famous and he was rich or she was famous enrich and how could she throw it all away, that's exactly when you do it, yeah It's exactly when you do it because it doesn't fit. sue you chastened chastened chase, and when you get there the grail, everything's gonna be unicorns and roses, and it's going to fill that whole and then you you get on every vanity fair, you get that big movie or you get the big paid area get the girl. You boys, I whatever is and you're still the same person, brutal yeah, I guess
say I mean that is what led to my surprise, he was like. I had every one of the things I had hoped to have, and I was at my most miserable point of my life and that got that that's when I get scary you're like I can't even tell myself of it, had that fucking job I'd feel better cause. Now you now know nothings gonna do it. I think it's true, for all of us I mean I know I know it is It is for me- and I have heard people over the years share- that that same story who had success beyond anything given you and I could ever dream of their talk about it, didn't fix that I like to describe it as that vague feeling of either on coming train. Malays everyone to describe it. For me, that's what it feels like for sure yeah now in other,
great thing about your story that I like, and I can relate to- is just the fuckin ebb and flow is that our guest unavoidable and I guess, if you have thirty years, you at least probably had some tool kit too, to help a debt. But one thing I ll say about sobriety is teach you humility in a way that nothing else really can yup and, being humble can be the saving grace of a long career. That's gonna have ebbs and flows yeah. Mean, like I spent the eighties working on my career and I spent the nineties working on myself fund. get sober in the nineties, I got married in the nineties, I'd kids in the nineties. And none of it happens without getting sober in the first place. And you now for me what I look of learning
Recovery is so in my dna at this point that every decision I make is through that prism and it makes everything so much easier. It makes. Being quarantine that its literally we are now in a moment where it Is the serenity prayer come to life? hell yeah, and so you and I are like we ever a wired for this we are, we are wired, yeah all my online meetings every saying that nonstop, like we kind of wired for this. We are we wired for this moment, and also through the ebb and flow of career, sort of tools you learn in the programme really really help. I was always really aware: that the Good NEWS is that you have, absent flows, because that means you ve survive. Long enough to have them, because there are plenty of people who go through streak and then just kind of that was all they had offer yeah yeah. So all my
temporary shearers, Withers, Travolta, Michael Douglas, and you guys, like you, ve, been hot and cold cold and hot hot, called in it just now changes but they're always there and are always great and that out it's kind of what I like now say it was even more challenging for you, but I Anyone that goes into this has an easy time, not making their identity the job, and I think it's come and by the fact that, literally when you're nineteen, the ride starts pretty much and for the next ten years. You're here for three months are there for three months here that everywhere right so you're doing any of the other things that people might do to acquire an identity. You're the anger and identity and then all of a sudden that identity changes. It has to be a very profound Is that what you want I mean was about his learning like who you are aside from this job you ve taken on and underbrush sank, cuz it for me. It actually started at fifteen. I got my first network television series and
from being the guy in high school ever be thought was a theatre. Nerd too. I remember vividly the day the show came out. We are forever live audience and then the bodies with screaming for me, like the third key before they weren't screaming did no. I was the next Thursday there were screaming and crying and eyes exactly the same guy so from fifteen than onto you, know too. I'm twenty six, it's just a or wind- and I don't know anything about nothing until I get sober and then and then I learn who I am and now has been the greatest journey of my life for sure so I got to imagine not being a husband becomes one of those identities being a father becomes one of those identities would have you shifted around and made that the kind of bedrock of who you are for sure it's? It was husband, it all happened at the same time, so my wife and married now, twenty nine years ago, sober a year before we got together and
had our boys in their twenty four and twenty six ants. It's really based on family, one hundred percent and a person of recovery. I try to be authentic to who I am and then all the work stuff is really truly. Second really. Actually one hundred percent, as I want have you been up in Santa Barbara was part of the third part of it. The minute we had our first child Matthew, I think he was six months old and I remember vividly because we have to think about preschool our member like was yesterday there. Well, you should think about preschool, like he's six months old, but that's what, you're no way. You know I mean there's also many principles. One hour are and ok give me a list of the pre schools that were the ones you should go to or whatever, and I now to get into this one you're really going to have to talk to MIKE over it something like he was the head of CIA and I had this. I had this vision of my life, where I
have to deal with the very same people that idea within my professional career. Every day, little league Christmas pageants trick treating and as like, if I have to trigger tree with my fucking agents, or if I have to coach, president of NBC kid I'm gonna blow my fuckin brains out, and I said we can't live here- and we started looking for where we could live, and I've been up here ever since I mean, it's probably a shortcoming on my part that I felt that way, but that's what I felt I just didn't want show business in show business people to infiltrate. Every single element of my life. What is lifelike up there? How does it differ from ally, the number one thing I was struck by women: up here almost twenty six years ago, and it still the same is you could go
to the zoo, with your kids, the beach with your kids a meal out with your kids, a hike with your kids and finish with a movie all in one day? If you wanted to yeah no way, maybe you can get one of them done private data traffic, and what does that mean? It's when you think about it insane yeah and then there's the beauty of it. The semi rural, which I think is the MID west in me, the sort of suburban semi rural sprawl and then it's a diverse group of people in terms of who is on the top of the pecking order, yeah. We had no matter what in allay its did and by the way, through different in Dc Dc of politics, and in the day
Detroit it would have been whatever automotive Vienna always accompany town, but appear you leaders from all kinds of walks of life for the top of the pecking order. I'm curious how, through sobriety, how you navigators certain situations is yet a couple tough. Once you have sex day, which was over Lee ahead of its time, stressful, very rarely. Why would about you said it was like lovers celebrity Zack State was died out of its time, but we can I take. first is overrated but I want to know how you go from that which I have to. I can't even imagine what a bad experience like, but then to take that extreme then go on ass a now in kind of parity it from finding out you're fucked two going on ass, an out. What's the journey there mentally well, so I like I'm sure you, I worship as an owl right. I grew up, every Sunday. I would recite to my parents what happened on us, an l and they
me to come on to do something around the tape which they always do in every anyone shoots the bed. Nor is the first on the phone to see if he can capitalize on it, and I was like I don't know do that so I didn't and then they call me back to host it now, like ok, I'll, do that, and they had this idea for the the open that I would nervous for I went on because people going to laugh at me because of the tape or that they work in a like me, and Lauren comes into my dressing room is like own up. What tape people don't you Oh, no, no, no people are turning into see what we're gonna do with Oxford, blue is. I don't even think they're aware of that the tape really. Is that what you think I'm like oak and I feel better, go out and they go wrong and I come out and the audience is we ve told them to be dead silence, there's no laws and then
then? I think it's, our Franklin stands up in the middle of my monologue and goes. I have a daughter was the hardest getting most. brutal, but I loved it. It was so fuckin ballsy in for me, what it blew and I learned is like, if you take a chance like that by my lawyers, did want me to do it. My agent want me to do it now. but he wanted to do it, but I wanted to do it and it still. A relationship with Lorn and MIKE Myers, and finally, in Spain that brought Tommy Boy wanes World Austin powers. None of that happens. If I don't do that, show yeah in interesting Lee, like you, don't do that. I dont know that make sure thinks all let's bring rob low and do comedy on parks and wreck. You can trace it all back.
that monologue literally all of them analogue wigs, how on earth do we know you're funny up to that point right know for sure. Do you think at all like having had fucked up owned, it made amends the think like a little bit that muslim memory was at least at semi helpful in that period. Why guess you it's over yeah yeah. I know I had another year of trying to do. Things my way sure sure Before I finally went uncle and there when you really learn all of those tools but for sure is like owning mistakes is a huge thing in the world, is a huge thing and growth in its power to becoming a man and owning the mistakes of your twenties is a big thing for me to do, and- and I try to teach her to my boys as well- you gotta get on it yeah yeah, so now West Wing does the other one now you're dead, sober for West Wing, obviously gay air and
I understanding of West Wing was originally. That shows was to be all my mind you I want you to know that Monica might be the biggest West wing. I lie down and she's what all they probably also time, sir laugh but originally designed you're the law, of that shall right just undisputed, led in the traditional way sort of what I mean it an undisputed ensemble out. That's for sure no star, it's an unstoppable bad, the guy, they got. The show on the air right in its following. Probably if you're doing percentages, you're you're being followed the largest percentage of the time by design originally yeah for for sure and first building in all of that sum, but I always knew I was joining a team. a high and that this I was never forget. Martin has this guy by the way. I remember the day they came to me and said: how do you feel that Martin, sheen
President Barroso, thank you fucking getting me. We might. My second dad you're that had to be so delightful on so many levels it was written here. Had no idea like this? that I as a martin- and I could do a scene together and have shown The years of history, just by looking at each other, but it I think they thought they were gonna- have Sidney Portiere as the President, ok and then it was not to be, and then it was Martin and he was so great and the pilot not we did was pilot. We did the pilot and we had to scene and I was a he's so great, a Z He'S- is he not in the show that much and thereby he's gonna be the neighbour from home improvement. So they told me that the pitch that income to bear, though it did not, thank God, I don't think the show never would have happened without every single person who happen to have been a part of it being a part of it like. If, if I'm not-
it, doesn't get on the air. If errand isn't right it, nobody ever wants to do it. If Tommy doesn't direct. At its eyes, immunity, everybody brought some really special yeah and I guess what I got from the fact that you then later work was Sorkin on a play. The up, which is awesome, was they even though it got dicey, you gonna, believe in the shell right may yet he gave everyone else raises, but you you said on our roads I can only imagine what that would do to me as a fuckin attic check the fact that you didn't at tea in tee to the relationship, is, I think, pretty impressive. Well, we had our. We all had our moments. It was a very volatile. It's funny you ve been thousand sets and end the energy. An atmosphere of each set, I think, is really unique to that show. And on the West wing. I've never been on a show before or after with the level of intensity. That show had- and I dont me in a bad way, but I'm about to say at all that it was not fun
It was dead, serious bidding the good ways and competitive in all the good ways, The hours were her renders right horrendous, horrendous you'd watch the and come in and their shag wars and there they are non portions and rolling we'd. Already it be at lunch, they be showing up. Then Jennifer A would get nerve, give Vespasian drive off, and you really like- Go in your seventeenth meal penalty in golden hours, the first year of West Wing every Friday we left the lot son was coming up on Saturday of every single Friday, we're in a sound stage we're moving around they're, not explosions, yeahs the same sex found now that I have too little kids, I'm not as one to be on with any
I wanna get almost my kids, so I got to imagine it had to be compounding that to have kids during that and I lived in Santa Barbara, I commuted yeah. Oh boy is brutal yeah right so you started there. I start evaluating how their lane track to mean seen my kid or not getting to read to them at and now the weight, putting on the way there Lane track is absurd, like a really at least please myself, because the debates are so high now in no come full circle. Has now I'm on nine one one loan star and we light and shoot that. Then I get some movie every day and because my kids are out of the house, because my life has a job? I my candle, should you seventeen takes this? You know what we should do. Everything I do at an angle. We take this wall out really get in a completely different person now, So that's so comforting. I because I'm like images of fuckin bro, now I mean I think I am largely brat, but you know funny enough. We were both
non Disney ranch like a month ago, and I was having so much fun guessing what your scene was about, because there was a combine. There is a huge combine in the middle of this field. Every time I go to my trail see this come. I am like I have to admit and someone has been sucked into this- combine. Rob is acting in that is from a girl by thing was I write it's wonderful, where we live Tyler on it. Yet live our lives, the best she so great in it. Ok, so before we get to, nine one one long star which I want to get too, did you have a blast on parks and rank because she was so fucking urine like one of the annals of great comedies I feel really lucky that I will put I say this with all possible humility- I will put the West wing and parks and recreation up there for dry and comedy for anybody to see
in a mite sure told me that when they were figuring out what parks- and I was gonna- be- was maybe a spin off of the office, which is what its original genesis was. Their favorite show was West Wing, and they were like. Ok, so westwards are favoured, shown its drama. What is the West wing if it's a comedy no pity y yeah, and then so is. If the dramas in the White House, the comedy is in the proximate department, I'm fine, you Vienna, God he's a genius, Monica I'm really jobs, because my wife's in love with them cause he's her boss. In my It is in love with them, because these Arafat and I can't combating diseases the better person than I am so they get. No, no real european screw did he's smart educated and is nothing you don't I work with your lovely. Why? For a couple episodes in parks Oh, you guys have recently the conceit.
Was. She was from the town where the good looking people from yeah and there was a very rich town and they couldn't go rusty or measures or something yeah I refute we had a blast together was so fine, she's, annoyingly nice to be around right now: bitches fuckin, you! U yell action, shall give you the best take a day on take one in time to move on owner. Fischer for God's outing, robot a boy I love acting robot. I can consider myself enacting robot they If they put me at the end of the call sheet they're going home, yes where that is a badge of honor. I really do in and West Wing was like that they and perks erect, like assassins just ring course. He ain't gonna. You said that camera and they are bringing it there's. No, finding a door. What that we might this sort of like a huge, embarrassing with and then crushing it in the next stages boom boom boom, and I love people who work like that. Love it yes fearless
I kind of I'm drawn to that fearlessness, some attracted to it. Ok, so you wrote a second book love life when they come up, I feel like love. Life is five years ago. Probably ok and that book I have not read, but now I'm really am going to read it, because it's about sex in love and addiction, all the stuff, I'm pretty cited about and more of a deep dive of insanities of our business. Aha, aha, one of my favorite. chapters is what they don't teach actors enacting school? They really should teach them about. Being in our business, yeah hit me with one of the ones they they don T. Just what the notion that you have your big scene. You addition for at five times got you the job and now time to do it, get on the set and they take it's gonna turns out. We can do it after lunch, right right, then after lunch,
comes along, they cause they're running a little behind, so it's Louis probably give an update free and forty minutes. Then forty minutes, in the like. Ok, we're like to bring it down for rehearsal, say bring it up, for her soul and then they light it, and then they go hey, there's a problem with the generator, so we're looking now that it's probably to be about another thirty five minutes great and they get hey, would like you to go back to make up in here, get fresh and Abkhazia you're make up to seven hours ago see doesn't like that and then you come back the thing and now counting on the worry, we're ready, we're ready like it's your fault? Oh yeah, they're waiting on you. That's right, you're! Thirty, second trip is everything all of a sudden gets two notes that awaits daylight. Contingents you're on the cliff and the sun, was setting and others about the Ok, we get about twenty minutes summits. We really are a hustle gonna get you like. I know I've been ready to move and a half hours and they do one take and your? U crush it. Yours soak cited and you look at the
whom, guy that any shake ecstatic, as noted for sound what legal yeah we gotta dog barked exactly so there now you do it again and anyway, who end up with this Brill seen and you get a taken a half, maybe a minute and a half to do it with all the power sure in the world on you like a cheer for no one ever tells you that that's what you're careers gonna be than ever tell you that ever I couldn't agree with you more put me in a little aluminum cube and let me think for twelve hours I'm gonna have some theories at the end of this twelve upwards, and none of them are going to resemble reality at all. It is really what could be worse than an act alone with his thoughts, IRAN solely as dangerous, ok I also want to know really quickly. You had a real show with your boys with Matthew and John it's my favorite thing. I did. They pay
made to go around the country with a super up rapporteur with my boys. Looking four ghosts, big foot, I think a supernatural banisters it was. We stop. About it today. Are my boys know it's. It will be the time of our lives. It will be our favorite memories of our life, and you know, just being idiots in talking shop. to each other and being with each other. And maybe we found stuff on some episodes and maybe we didn't and others- and it was just an absolute ass the low files and its, I think you can. I know it's on Youtube and its it exists. Out there, but I absolutely love that show a love doing it. It was a gift. What's it like when you work your wife Heaven on earth, because we ve been interacting for twelve years together and will Monica knows she writes all these commercials. We do and we get there and we can weaken first
rip out almost every take be us and in as she'd my favorite seem partner for sure generally are desires, are opposing just in life. We have too little kids, I think all family vacation should be off putting. She does not think that you know just you. We have had Africa, so we have opposite agendas in any tone. We work together, we're like This is lovely. We have the exact same objective. We want the thing to be great. We want to get out early. We want like it's a great opportunity, to have a line goals with the people you love, but when you live under a house, its endless compromise. We can eat. No, I dont want beats all this bullshit, so I got a manual boys to share, the same goal of like, let's make this fun great show was probably awesome. was really great in its it more than anything it just a great snapshot of our lives together in our relationship die would do seventeen seasons of low files. That was my favorite thing ever. Ok, so
as we talked about nine one, one loan star was there any time Were you nervous when they approached you, like you, guys, know, Erna, I'm not gonna move to taxes so bright Doing is over if you got, what am I to do next? There's a lot of interest in what I might do next and I've got a lot of choices, and it's really great time, but a heavy time and a lot of stakes If Europe Linux thing is in there's a show on the are called nip tuck, Rhine, Murphy it's an eye like that's the kind of show I should be doing. Why can I have a character like doktor Christian Troy? I would crush that character. I wanna meet this. guy this Ryan Murphy guy I gotta meet. With Ryan. I sitting on this issue. I want to do. I wanted you. Some willingness took him in that characterise perfect for me in his arms the colors draining from his face as well? When what is really Ukase Rob, don't you that? I wrote that for you oh, I think what is only, of course, that
character, resonates for you. I wrote it for you so turns. my agents, never gave it to me. Ah ha The thinking was, it was on ethics at that had never done a scripted show that showed divine defects defined it Ryan Is it was right that I wasn't ran Murphy yet and I never saw it. So fast forward to eighteen years, almost later go to Ryan and say we want to do another. Nine one one iteration do have an idea of what that might be. It God bless riding as I don't, but I did have one would be rob low as a fireman, who cares greatly about his skin care, and that was the genesis of nine one one lodestar so when it did come them I was able to tell them I'm not moving to Texas, right right, right, that's wild! You did remit
we have one thing I want to ask you about: does it at all pain you so doing? He was offered, make dreamy role and grace, and I didn't I know that you use it at home and go like fuck. I would have made nominally eighty million dollars. Does that pain you two ILO that you came up with eighty exerts about what I came up with to try to do the math, and I think it is about eighty, I think it is to our yes, I do and I'm not quitting the reason. I'm still wanted now like I'm getting, this week. Still, if it's me ass, yeah you're, making seven hundred and fifty an episode and you got some ownership, so I here, and this is thing that really is true is I do not regret it. because I wouldn't have done parks and if I ever said hey, you can have graze apart Then you're filmography, I'm taking perks ten
ten times, and the other thing is a people forget about is like. If it's me it's me, but they got to kind of rediscover pay Truck, that's where they called him MC dreamy. I've I've got you, have anywhere near the impact on that, show that he did because people know what they're getting with me with him. it was this whole discovery and the like big dreamy yeah. Right? It was a story and in fact I never even watch a show, but I was thrilled cuz I can't buy me. Love was like my movie: what a fucking movie, as a kid- and I just always, as I got older, was heartbroken like what are they held, that guy go, he was my favorite and then he pops back up and the mother Fucker is handsome, is all hell. I now Yeah he's nice. Whenever I see Hemi tips, his hat Gus thanks the eighty million, unless women you now have a podcast cry, yet the not out yet were we had planned,
launch in May, but now with the issue was good People in and social distancing? We may push a little bit and dumb I've. I've been having a last doing it it seeing in listen to people like you inspired me, a tonne Oh thank you because look, we know about you, but I grew up loving, watching people I was interested in tell a twenty minute story if they wanted to like coming on the tonight show in russian or the playboy you, and that was a thing it was our love them. I mean now we have Howard stern love, but like there's room for more than that. There are very few places, and now with you and some of the others, there are places that people can come on. Let their hair our bee, who they are. So I have had a ton of my friends on it's been awesome and I can't wait for people to to listen. That's got literally with rob low, literally with them. Rob low who's, been your favorite guess so far.
Ah gosh I had a blast with Spain. David. Spade was really really amazing, Maria I've was fantastic Gwen, Paltrow was great, and these are all people have really long long, trees with the obvious we get into some deep dive shit that that like it's not you know, I don't need a look Chris Patten and ask about guardians of the galaxy bright enough. People can do that do not saying so when I had a longer who I know when I love and I've worked with its very odd and random, and I think that's what people are interested in. I just love this format, I'm so grateful that we live in an era where this exist in the barrier entry, so small when also year you're, so authentic in a world where there is a whole segment of our business that is less and less authentic by the day.
Authenticity mean something it's like the two books that are like. You can't write books that are successful are memoirs if they're not authentic, if you're if you're, not willing to let people in in a real way. Yeah is out it's the same as the pipe for me that the podcast is a natural extension of I, the books or doing my one man, show that I tore the country doing, which is also so extension of storytelling to people in an authentic way, yeah It is when I looked you up that it had all like the first thing that came up with all these events. type in your name, and it gives me Wikipedia and all this stuff. Then it immediately goes to events, and I was like. Oh, you do some kind of live thing. I was thinking. Oh, you must have had to cancel all these. That's a bummer now, so you do Man show, what's it called its old story. Is only tell my friends live, oh I like it in Thinking about writing a third book and
Instead of writing a third book, I wrote this show so it what would have been the third book is this show yeah. I just tell the stories of the third book, and then I d, q and at the end and really the truth. If I were honest enough and add the balls to do it, I would say it's my stand up. Ray- is what it is. It right really wanted us yeah yeah. stand up. I love really personal you their funny, but there also about something yeah I mean, so that's really what it is it's a lotta, laughs maps, Fleas VON yeah. I would love to see them and I think you're right. I think the real, It's easy for me, and probably for you is, go to your room with strangers, and I tell them that I hate my wife's guts because she leaves doors open. Then I realize on this in that, and you know like letting out some of these imperfections in finding that. Oh, it's nothing to be in bed is about something that people are ultimately relate to you about. Like me, are obviously not. I say something I think is. I must be the only piece of shit thinking this
I say and then all the other piece of shit now had I go we're all piece of shit. Who are we fucking putting on this play for Louis perfect that were presented were keeping up this veneer for because everyone, is a fellow scumbag. You know it's hard to get through. This ride unplanned earth without being a fuckin shit had sometimes I say it same thing to people in that people have been on a journey of recovery. We we we have If we have succeeded at all, we ve learned how to get real at the drop of a fucking hat yeah yeah what may I wish you a dialogue in again great great talking. You thanks done for doing this, be a Skype and I hope to see you on yours, not literally with rob low, thanks, you guys you guys are awesome. I next time you're born someone out of a combine I'll, come say hi. I can do that idea by stay to arm chair armchair expert. We are supported by man, scaped money,
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Ok, we're smelling our microphones right now, because we renewed in the same microphones for two years now and I just decided, checking and give minor with, and there is there is a smell there, but it's up foul, it's just it feels lived in. I guess, like a couch, Mars and a good smelling grandma's? How ok? Well, I just and I don't smell anything, and I have a super sense. I think so of smell mine, which is more worthy of its name, I guess that's what I'm saying there. Yet there is like if I went to a store- and I smelled this microphone billig- why you Sony's migrants, used yeah, ok and has a history of patina, a goose, the tory Patina, but since ninety three slash, ninety five differ in you as that fucking audacity to turn off. The air can lead you raised, I put it to low because I dont have central air just have a box.
leniently located in the kitchen me here, which is hidden. Does help anybody or anything and it got too cold cause. I left it on for too long, and then I had it no, but our job in the full hygiene they're going to be, and I think they can be, but there's a lot of things that I get caught Saint like it makes oh, my god that could be at your experience in your flies. and we no, but our job as a whole idea they're going to be- and I think they can be, but there's a lot of things that I get caught Saint like it makes to the the light of day that I say, and it sounds terrible wakes up when I loved when Christian was pregnant. Nice said she looks like a chubby third greater own. She locked, I third greater cause her face, got really wrong. And she looked like super ya. Go inside she loved you. That was a funny, but I think she
said it in your view, and then people treated me like how dare you try to make your wife feel fat? I thought they were gonna get mad about fact that you are tracked into a third green. You know what I was saying I was horny owes is acutely factor now, but you have also said that you love or even when she was pregnant. Yes, side note. I thought it was very interesting, though my wife's complete body change that was fascinating, re, but now I'm, fraid the flies thing may fall in this city. Someone's gotta go. How dare you say that about someone's mental started very organically right is on your peers, one time you're like lamented, about an hour, we words or joking there. There are flies around me following you. Yes, because of the period since a now, we call it my fire anyway, it's no one by happy Monday. Ok, can I take it.
Secondly, yeah! Ok, so some folks made us a video and it was insane a wise. It was so beautiful. It was really really beautiful and it made me cry a bit and then I send it to my mom, because she was mentioned. And she had a nice cry? This video is, I guess, because of two hundred episodes. It's the one descended thank you which, for sound nice you again I what did you feel like when you were watching and we were talking about how aspirational yours, a woman in safety? What kind of feeling that you have just so much greater to all of the people that take the time out to listen to us. Talk about fly, you're, sure, menstrual flies.
I felt grateful. I am correspond undeserving. Yes, that's what I was hoping you tie now. I now I know this re or leading. Oh, you do yeah yeah. I just felt like I'm not worthy of this at all. I know I felt like you like the things they said about yours, it yeah. She deserves that. I felt that I am crazy. It can feel so small and is just us in the room, but also small. It is manages, asked chatting with another person, thence tiny and then what you feel and get to see. The reach is overwhelming. It is its some people going, I got sober, envisages, may change your life. I it's it's so unbelievable. We cried anyways. I just want to think Amanda, Jessica, Morgan, Jessica, again, Brigitte Courtney, Kelly Heather
and there was some beautiful comments from Stacy China, Maria Shannon Heather Megan Caitlin Ali Melinda, Jamie Sarah Meredith Amanda, Taylor and Zachary. It was so beautiful and then just special thanks to Kelly for get meth to Monica in and just organizing and orchestrating. The whole thing is very, very yes, thank you. Thank you. We don't deserve it, but will carry on anyways, yeah yeah or keep doing despite the hot box in the flies, and when will stop you, of the air like war harmonizing conventionally is when you brought the windows on several of you smoke a joint and you get the whole car filled with joint smoke then you get a little secondary buzz from the hot box. I thought it was a fart. You can a hot box area with with a far better and then I also unit. To be honest, you we're time out the fire. So I thought you were about my vagina as crossing a lie
that is causing the line. I would never say that what a Cisco. We were starting conversation before this new. I await and have it on the fact check. Yes, we were do it genuinely and earnestly- and I said, let's puts convert this into contact yeah and it has unity with Rob low, but we will get to rob loud. Yes, it was because we were talking about libertarianism and you identify with many sentence. I used to be declared libertarian on my voter registration at said. Libertarian, although I was voted for Democrats for its work but ok Missouri who, but you align with a lot of those principles- and you find yourself leading to a lot of those and when we
and it's a thing right. It's a legit thing that happens, and I remember hearing that, while I saw a lot of things when I heard a, but one was how I wonder if Dax hears that people he referred to a libertarian to white nationalist pipeline and it's a thing right. It's a legit thing that happens, and I remember him During that where I saw a lot of things when I heard it, but one was how I wonder if Dax hears that and if its sparking anything for him, like. Oh I'm, not saying all libertarians become white nationalists but it is a hard man way for people define white nationalism is through libertarian. Yes, we will be really care for the way we savings, ok, because because what you are saying is true, but ok so,
All mass shooters are white. Males there's a couple of exceptions: right all mass shooters are white males all white males are not Matthew Course right, so that really bore important. So a lot of white nationalists were former libertarians. Yes, which has no bearing on how many libertarians are White NASH out to say that, but which we mourn. I think the mad, as you said rightly like that, give you pause it should, if you find it, group you're a member of or what were previously a member? I believe a lot of the things they believe make a leap into this very dismal group. Should you question like? Oh it is that why
You know why you never want to be in the same group as white. National is obviously to have an open. I it goes without saying, but I said you know it's interesting as it. It doesn't give me pause, because I think people are attracted to libertarianism for to dramatically different reason. Ok- and that's where I sat all let's put opinions explore here so I think alike, The people on the pipeline, the white nationalism who are former libertarians are also libertarians. I think there's too kind of big groups and in the libertarian Party one is I hate government. I want the smallest government possible gum. mentioned, be telling us how to live. I mean there are libertarians that dont want and have a right which is insane. They dont want someone controlling the air traffic, yet let it let the business sorted out yet and saint. Let people beat ass and then it's a sliding scale than theirs. People that dont want regulation of utilities
as people you know, and so whatever that spectrum is let's say of Zeus, zero to ten on the libertarian spectrum. I think that the best I was maybe a four. on the financial government side, but I was a ten on the civil liberties. Anyone does We're libertarians, the tenets of libertarianism is there's two sides of this party: the belief that should have civil liberties, so it matter if you're gay, you should have all the rights as anyone else. No one should tell you whether you can get a medical procedure. You you have liberty in all of its senses. You can be exactly who you wanna be a tiny Tommy and conventionally that's. very progressive. So the thing that generally Democrats are proud of themselves about, as they should be, is that they believe in civil liberties, and then conservatives claim that they pat themselves on the back. As is that, fiscally conservative. They are worried about us spending and becoming this enormous monolith government that is blowing the citizens money who is making it all self
They believe in liberty, over your finances and small government. So I'm attracted that I'm attracted a liberty, I'm attracted to freedom of self Self possession. I believe in all those things Taipei, Armenia, gambling. Yes, yes, but I think there's a lot of people that are tracked it at the party simply because its anti government, if you hate the government, which I don't that's I was attracted to libertarianism, but if you hate, the government odds are, in my opinion, you feel left out of the system The reason why, like the system and you want the system dismantled, is that you feel excluded from the system. If the system is working great for you,
nobody whose benefiting from a system wants to dismantle the loudest ass after we learned from him, he ain't, he told us, and I believe him because he was in the trenches that it's a lot of people. You wouldn't expect and a lot of people who have great jobs and are benefit from society. Let's most certainly truly saying am I don't think that's the majority. I think it's the exception regardless. You could also be financially fit and feel excluded by society. Anyways. I think, there's a little a contingency within libertarianism that a true people who feel excluded by the system. So their answer is dismantle the system. Another pipeline other than white nationalism is alot. Libertarians find themselves in these groups that hate the government and they take stands to not cooperate with the government. They won't carry a licence. They ve been in shootouts with law enforcement so that subset of libertarians, I think, are people they feel very exclude.
By the system, and so when I see that that's a pipeline that doesn't surprise me, but yet I have no fear that I'm heading towards our cause. I don't have a hatred of the system or feel alienated or excluded by it. I think it's very generous of you to give them the benefit of the doubt that its because their feeling excluded, I do think many of them, can and do, but I also think a lot of it has to do with control and feeling, like things are out of their control and things I've been in their control for a long time, a lot of white male, that's a lot of these people and their women too, and they ve been the dominant. demonic group for a long time and then they feel like they're losing MAC anyway, doesn't scare you, which is fair. Let me ask you this: do you believe in Liberty, like the concept of liberty, real freedom and of course, so you do you prioritize liberty,
well but somewhere, it's a ratio as it is for all of us or the quality, is also on the table. Yap an equality often comes at the expense of liberty. There is ever you know when we had as on. He was hacking about this, and he said it. They don't have to be. They dont have to be so right now and covert is up for example, of liberty, verses equality. So people's liberty is being limited right now they are being told by the state to not leave their house and they're doing that to protect the masses they're not doing it proceeded protect themselves because they are probably not in the target range of whose susceptible to dine from covert but they're doing it to protect, act the group right it always some some ratio. You believe in that you feel good in your soul with. Well, I don't think you can have liberty if you dont have a quality. If things are unequal and people are at the bottom, they don't have liberty. Those people don't have liberty. If someone else's
in control of them- are, has power over them. They don't have it, so I think you have to have a quality in order to have liberty unless you are a Obama bomber, unless you say, are examples of people that are in the zip code. Underprivileged that do rise out of luck. I'm not gonna make a case that its work I'm not, but there are many. There are many cases you can point to that demonstrate you can move out of everything in the beauty of. Why that is is liberty is, is, is that there isn't any kind of institutional law against some group of people. Now there was there were slavery, but currently there is no law in place that would prevent someone from being upwardly mobile in theirs.
The economic in their education. So the state isn't trying. There's no caste system here will officially, but unofficially things are happening all over the place that make it impossible for people to rise out of their circumstances yet, and even if not impossible, three or four or five or ten times harder than someone. Yes, yeah yeah see that entirely so so I listened to your organs podcast morning when things he was talking about, is China and how they handled their pandemic and that's great there. You see the upside of not having liberty. So if you dont have liberty, you can control the masses, none can get them to cooperate with you and the has a value we just saw? The air is a value to it and there is a cost to it. So you, you're always trying to evaluate where are you on the spectrum, the notion that anyone is all the way on the quality cider or when the liberty side, no one is
someone who believes in equality the mouse in you presented them or we yeah right now put all the money in America in one pool, divvy it up and handed out. So every human up in America has that same amount of money, almost no one saying yes, I agree that is a quality and its purest yeah think, we're all on a scale. Of course, you are asking me: do you believe in liberty, RO in you do of clear, and you also believe inequality now and you prioritize equality more than Liberty generally when we have conversational Japan's again, I dont see them at all. In the same way, you do so it's gonna be hard to have this conversation in this way. I find them to be very connected and I think a quality leads to liberty for people who don't have it and that I care about that too I personally am not worried about white straight men's autonomy going away
I dont think its ever gonna go away in this country, and I am not worried about that. For them. I know they. Some of them are in that's what leads to a lot of these groups, but I'm I'm more concerned currently about the marginalized. relax. So again. So here is a perfect example. Were they can't coexists, which is so? If we're trying to prevent white nationalism, which obviously is a goal we should have, and trying to bring up marginalized groups. We should now be allowing the further meant of narratives that oppress them. So many people that would put equality significantly higher than liberty, with limit free speech to help curb that we'll start by saying there shouldn't they shouldn't, get a permit for a Klan rally or they shouldn't get a permit for a white nationalist rally right that we should limit that free speech, because we have this other goal of making sure that we're not perpetuating the marginalization of minority groups. Those two things can exist at the same time they can't
work in harmony with either go either have delivered island, that's different well, but then, then that gets very great. Did it incite violence or was it violent, is standing with a megaphone yelling end word violent! No! it incite violence. Maybe now is the problem on the person who committed violence after hearing that its very much but most certainly in this case, you're gonna have to kind of pick whether you believe in liberty or equality in this moment, or you have not pick you because I believe in both you're gonna have to prioritize one or the other, and that's what fussing about the acl you often their defending the clue, cloaks clan so that they can have rallies because they believe in civil liberties and the right to say something completely abhorrent wrong in reprehensible in public. If they want, I dont know that any one saying that shouldn't be lawfully allowed, but there
saying we're. Gonna protest it and we're gonna publicly. Shame those people for saying those things while the right so there's some people, the protests and theres many that try to get the universe to not allow someone to speak, so it actually take away right and there are many people that are actively petitioning the government meant to not allow them to have rallies legally, so they're, not just counter protesting they're trying to get their actual from the government, their liberty limited. Which again I understand why they want to do that near. It makes total sense. I agree with them, but I happen to think the downsides free speech are most certainly worth the upside of free speech, and you just can't have it all: have China when you wanna, be China and in the U S when you want to be? U s just because some people are trying to get people to not speak at universities once every, however met, namely we can count on two hands. How many times that's happened. I dont think in this country were at a rate.
Sk of losing free speech like lots of the minor again. May I make an appeal to you that some people are prioritizing equality over liberty host but giving you an example of how they can exist simultaneously. Often, ok, I mean, I believe in free speech. I dont have any problem with anyone saying anything. I think it's fine for them to say, and I think it's too really fine for a bunch of people to come after that per year to use their free speech uniform and agree but there are people to the left of you. That's why I'm talking. I guess I just wonder, trying to turn it around and think what do I agree with that could lead to something that I really don't agree with write em do I have that? Am I a part of something like that? I'm just trying to look in
and see. This is interesting, yeah. So, what's interesting, as I'm reading a great biography one, the Pulitzer Prize on Oppenheimer, he held up the Manhattan project, you create the atomic bomb. Aha, he was a professor at Berkeley the communists and guess what a lot of the left was communist back then in nineteen thirty, because we didn't have all the examples of the experiment. So at that time it was just a theory v compelling theory, and he was a communist and many of his colleagues were communist, but it doesn't work as an economic model. For other reasons you ve all pointed out. You can't have a centralized decision making about both selling goods and services. So it was wrong, but but We learn that it was wrong and it was little people on the left who wanted it in re probable would have wanted it you and I we were alive and nineteen thirty, because we're on the left. Currently, we probably would have been in that group name
yeah and we would have been wrong in the system would have yielded a ton of atrocities, but that's an example. Something that was really well intentioned in Marxism is beautiful and concept, and then it doesn't work in practice and we could have on the wrong side of that history share. But as soon as it starts proving itself, to be wrong. My would hope that we would have pivoted yeah. I dont really what you just said: you're trying to think of a way to believe you have could have gone wrong and I'm pointing one outward. It's the ultimate measure of equality, which is communism and marks. Is that I'm not further alter that. That's, not my son sensibility. I know its, not that's what I like about you as liberals. You don't want a soul, a completely socialist economy. You don't want that. I don't either and I am most Democrats don't as air I have reimer- I don't think so. Yes,
you can see what I'm saying right that that there are tenants that were wrong about the progressives are wrong and people chasing equality have been wrong in the past. I think extremes are the problem, not liberty or equality. It's just once like all in on one in one, only is where issues start Am I doing here and then what takes over as well is just identity share in then it's not even about the Bing anymore you're, defending your identity as a communist as a socialist as a nationalist as a populist, as you know, I am, I think, that's when it gets dicey. Zaire is following a party line, cause you're, committed
rob low, Rob, learn. Order was along tragic, though, because he was was a short. That's true rob low. He talks about the start Club in Texas, that's where he tried ecstasy, but there's a documentary about the start. Club always watcher. Yes, has called sex drugs design warriors of the discotheque and it's a document about the material start club. so called because it was the first major project by legendary designer Philip Stark and the? U S. Oh, I don't even know Philip Stork, neither but maybe I'll, find out if we watch the dock her Google we're going back to the attic. There was a ton of microphone. Babies everywhere. All over the floor, they reproduce grows died. I like working in silicon resolve any le. Jaime makes
little pods. Well, like little we'll talk grumblies that small yeah. I don't like that. I don't like I don't like the thought of that and that you know I love Google ok, so history of embryo may you talk, but in a little bit, yes, a german chemist discovered him dna. Woe do you know what it stands for there have been times when I knew what it stood for me, gave me a second then this may be the long as mouthful hide. Roxy, methyl wean dioxin methamphetamine boom meddling, dioxin, methane
better mean while hard. That is, I think, maybe that one of the longest words I've ever seen o only count how many letters it is to be an amazing scrabble were a billion point, twenty nine letters of all my willpower, not to plastic thirteen, seventeen one, a bank, Europe away. It took everything. Matlin dioxin met them,
mean or empty. I may they got a shortened it. They would not be a popular draw. People had pronounced that taxes are drug dealer to get it now. I was now working in nineteen twelve, while developing other medicines that could stop bleeding. So these german chemist discovered it when they were trying to find other medicines outward supposed stop bleeding the substance. They discovered had unique psychoactive properties, the pharmaceutical company Merk patented emptier. May nineteen fourteen, as a compound that could have pharmaceutical value in nineteen eighty five, the d A declared an emergency ban on empty. I may placing it on the list of schedule. One drugs defined a substances with no currently accepted medically use and a high potential for abuse. Empty amazed remained a schedule on substance. Since then, with the exception of a brief period of time between nineteen, eighty, seven and nineteen eighty eight the year I was born my bush, your mother knew ah
No, you said, as you say, the people have done. Mushrooms have markedly more creativity that lasts. There is so many article about this. People can go down the rabbit whole if they want one made a major publication- those like New York Times, if she there's a lot of type up micro, dough, sang and creativity and so I'll read this cause of this is the most recent study on it in a single out particles. But this was one specific articles. Science, Arkell Psychedelic aren't legal in the? U S, but the laws are more lax and Netherlands the sky harmful and his colleagues conducted their study. Their magic mushrooms are any mushroom containing the psycho active compound suicide and are banned but magic truffles, or color Rodya, goose wrote him. Oh my god, which are an underground portion of the same fungus, are legal acts?
again, these score sclerosis via the Campi right Sclerosis, contain the same psychoactive suicide and, as of more familiar above ground mushroom, the researchers were invited to do the research by the psychedelic society of the Netherlands, which is conducting a micro dosing event, because people who signed up for the event had already paid the organizers and expected a dose of real drugs harmful and his team couldn't ethically make a control group and give them fake shrimps ovens, woman so, but they could tell participants before and after they took the many dose of psychedelic troubles. The researchers asked thirty eight participants to do three short written test before they micro does. One was a brief intelligence test. Another tested, convergent thinking, a compound of creativity that involves solving problems with just one solution. In this test. A participant would be shown a grid of pictures with objects. Then they had to pick one object from each row in disguise
their commonality, a sink a horse and a bathtub, for example, would all have water in common. The final test focused on usually a sink or horse, think I might have provided a sick, a whole look. What we may have to dig rooms what a horse! I finally said it, I think, a hose and of access of the final task focused on divergent thinking or the ability to come up with many possible solutions to a problem. Participants were given a word, either pen or towel, and told to come up with as many uses for that object, as they could think of for a pan Hamas, and this could be as dollars right with it or as wildest. Stick it in the right eye of Europe, ass. That's what I would say, yeah weight of my your Bosnia scenario. After taking a day
of around a third of a gram of magic truffles, the participants to different versions of these same tests, the results show that, after the micro, those intelligence did not change, but both divergent am convergent, thinking improved the researchers reported. This was a surprise homo said. The difference could be in the dose
rather than the substance had study co, author or the recreational dosages people report, an almost dreamlike unconstrained thought process. This might be grateful brainstorming, but not arrange for a more structural problem solving she said because there was no control group, it's impossible to say for sure whether the microphone was really the reason that creativity went up. People might have learned how to do the tests from the first round, though that is unlikely homo said. A practice round isn't known to improve people's scores on these kinds of creativity tests. Alternatively, people might have simply expected to become more creative because they had a similar experience with magic mushrooms before or the idea that this was gonna cost creativity, but still almost said, those expectations will be based on a real effect of the drug. Creativity is highly situational, Marino, told life science Psychedelic might help, but then so might changing up one's office lay out are going for a hike there
too many variables in the actual work world to the seem that micro dissing makes a key difference. He said yeah centrist thing, but is interesting. The article I had read was more by Putin, big doses earlier in their life and ate. It was more a survey of people who done it, unlike what jobs they had and what kind of I now model, those who really like they said- and I think this is what I have said to you in the past. You just have no idea what they would have been without a right, there's, no way to know you're, ok, well talk a little bit about backlogs. I didn't get to China and I wanted to I wanted to brag and you didn't brag for me what you should of that. I used to do backwards or donors. We wanted still. Why would you like that? Go No! No! You don't understand. It requires so much physical prowess, be able to do all. I know I think it's most impressive feat of strength, but I dont have those muscles anymore, he's gonna
it took me so long to get them in the first place and then damn never again. Those back is all in the Abbey corps. Right Corcoran for all in the absence of a few and Ryan, could do a back flip presentation and all these family vacations. What at what a great time I wish I could said You- and I really really do Maybe- will learn together when my hand now I think I want to do a bachelor before I die. I think to give life. Maybe twenty? Oh you wit. What have you die doing? Why won't dial you? You could either deafening lemon Breakin Margo its So long. I didn't have the muscle capacity, despite my elite muscle mass, and to do it it to me a long time to build up that ability, Ike, crashed and burn so hard. So many times oh my god, so many times in the day I finally landed my first one. It was such a big deal on the whole school
Was there and everyone she sent an email. Monica bags were and she sent it out remit, everyone that harboured pays off in is one of the biggest accomplish what have its say like, would have to prove that point. She leaned into some stuff that entirely true in they're, like Monica, are least physically member has accomplished. She had to say I'm begging you. It was pretty much trail of the people who made Matt Weedin called that, but that is what it was. I was definitely the least capable of tumbling, and so I had to really work extra hard to be able to do it because you had like you, do like squad tux sure backwards in the other, and I did
I don't think I've ever felt more proud. Oh, that's your number one guy. I really is not my number one accomplishment, but its defiling the time I felt the most shrouded through pride of mice. I was just premise. I never felt like that, since, even when we one as a team, I was so proud of us knows exe, I did, but it was a different thing. I don't I don't know I've ever had there, but the only time I can view Think of that I might have had something close to it was when in Rome, and it was like time to look the way I was supposed to look and I did a share and I didn't think I could you Why don't? I just would like only I did it. I did all the things you have to do that so outside of my it's, when you feel. your defying the rules.
Your body or who you are yeah, which I do think taught me perseverance and, like the really aren't limit. yeah. My thing was: I used during that movie. I would jog every night on the West side, my way and I would run like four five miles and which I can't write. Fuckin high schools the mile I'm gonna, get a note from my I'm not in the direct line, and I would just be trot along Goin, who is this? Guy has running at midnight five miles. I now I loved it further about ok, the rich town and parks and righteous Eagle ten. I didn't even up to look down and I'm not sure and at all, for Robert Low ah well bless. He was an ambitious package can be great and it was great the use, fantastic air all right. I love you. I love you take here