Sam Harris is an American author, neuroscientist, philosopher, and podcast host. In Sam’s return to Armchair Expert, he discusses what it means to live an examined life. He touches on the concepts of being deliberate with one’s attention, consciousness as experience and the value of meditation. Dax believes Sam holds paradoxical interests and Sam admits he is increasingly leaning away from controversy. The two start the episode with an interesting thought experiment and they discuss the complexity of gurus.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome. Welcome album Na Jerry expert, I'm your house Dax heroism, joined by Monica SAM Debats may. Today we have returning one of her few returning yeah. Small bul has right. Sam Harris he's a neuroscientist, a philosopher and best selling author he's got a very popular podcast that we like Making sense Podcast Andy as a new app called waking up app, which is all about meditation in on this episode with SAM Samuel. If I could Senor Harrison, we talk way more about. You know just overall Meidel how mindfulness yeah it's
really fun exploration, because he's well versed in several topics, but one in particular is super into meditation Afghan dedicated life to it. So it was a really fun conversation in a much different speed than our last and hopefully will have many other speeds in the future. So please enjoy saying I'm heiress. We are supported by Baroque Lynn, and now you know this is one of our more central sponsors Monica ally. Now I love hotel quality. She's. Listen, you spend a thirty or life in between she'd, so they ought to be comfortable, may be their hotel quality sheets, but for a fraction of the cost, Brooklyn was the first direct consumer letting company mean they work directly with manufacturers and directly with customers, no middlemen, just a great product and service. They move beyond that room and offer essentials for your bathroom, like towels, shower curtains and bath mats, and even ultra soft lounge, where that makes you feel like you, VE, never laughed bed all luxury products without the luxury mark up like softness, comfort,
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Dax ten in use go Dax. Ten during Hallo fresh is new year's sail for ten free meals, including free shipping. That's hallo, fresh dot com slow. Dax Ten M promo Code Dax, ten, four Ten free meals, including free shipping, he's some errors two round to Cyrus. You know I imagine you why. I hope that your running is probably might not cuz if your superior intelligence, but Last night across my mind like hey, maybe should listen to salmon eyes first interview so that I don't just stupidly, ask him the exact same question has ended up with. Unlike let me repeat that I know we're not gonna have fled away complaints. Design super inevitably lead once again what you're saying last night I was like oh yeah,
super interest in it. I just love that moral philosophy: question you pose that you for everyone in the middle of the night, in no one left alive to suffer roads, railways, a what wrong with that some people have an intuition it that will that really is a victim of a crime, because it does there's no suffering and there's no one to be bereaved by it so yeah. How is that bad? It, I that there's some value in all the goodness goodness closing the door to to. Then it is very difficult to Paris, but Monica has a bit of a nihilistic streak in her and she she can get going on it that not being necessarily bad which makes her that the biggest psychopath of all time, India I can to the times that I can are. I guess it would be nihilistic, Monica nice favorite thought exercises to imagine the aliens hovering above earth just watching what we do. You know laughing at all,
I have been, and then sometimes finding this quite q, like we were at a hotel, balcony overlooked this wedding area and we are, achieving this great where he was a jewish wedding, and though they were singing in doing all the stuff, and I thought the aliens are like all, sometimes he's monkeys get together and they dress this way and they sang and they step on a glass and everyone's happy in this is. This is lovely of us. You know a lot of its head scratchy, but then some of its like other aliens or pride digging Miss right now, but I often think yeah I mean you can over think allowed us. but the end of the day, or just a bunch of he's trying to stay busy until we're dead. I mean that's really at the heart of Europe has it once you find yourself, but you do have to remember. We're just Another species on planet earth just stay and busy and FED
yeah, except our creativity has really allowed us to fly the perch of evolution and we were not just monkeys in the Why were not just monkeys, because when you agree that we do like to think of ourselves agree that we do like to think of ourselves as like three hundred deviations above a champ. But that is not the case. We're only like a couple or not that far off will there's. There is a a quantum difference in a binary difference between us and every other species. In that, the leverage we get from being able to use language create culture basically create an operating system for the rest of the species.
Wherein the acquired knowledge doesn't get lost generation after generation. We just imagine what would be like to lose. All of this may every generation, all the institutional knowledge of technical knowledge. I mean. How do you use is having to reinvent everything you know, including computation and computers and you'll be hopeless right. Yes, so so every person born today these are below the kind of trivial things we can observe. I'd like you to anyone who goes to school even in elementary school, understand more about certain things, then all of humanity did even or even in a deranged laid o or yet exactly right. An end that inheritance gives us so much leverage and ultimately get ill, give us the leverage to change ourselves, genetically and change the germ line and and integrate.
yourselves directly with technology and in some ways were already integrated with our technology, because we're so dependent on it for a communication and information retrieval and they were functioning like cyborgs in a way and what kind of neurotic cyborgs Technologies drive and his little crazy charge her and shattering society. He I wonder in all of us, we have to get a handle on that, but it where all of this is headed is not clear and I think the future of creativity and in It is truly open, ended in a way that is not for any other species in the chimps are gonna be doing with the chimps did a thousand years ago, a thousand years from now, the others we decide to change them some media rights, but using because I just said Malcolm Glad, that is why your greatest interviews ever circuit for people who don't know Malcolm invited you on
but I am only now. I know you know this is worth a great. The truth is, I didn't even know, though it happened, which was my assumption. I've met, I imagine you like him like I do. Love is books and stuff, and just get to talk to him would be an honour, and I never spoken before others. There is very little contest, he was interested in the writing. I had done on self defence and violence, I believe for was it was not clear how what this, how this can be framed or what, with the context wise or the narrowness of the focus in the ten percent of people who might not know who you are not things that you are associated with me on an expert themselves since security. This is right right. This is my so I can at best could be described as a hobby so its invited under Malcolm guy who's. Biogas unease is basically, if there's a home invasion and the the perpetrator takes your family hostage, what's the best man,
in saying this I am basically as at its wisest to fully with which you know, you lay out a really compelling argument and I think your ultimately right, but what out what a gut should? First about in Naples and my own pr, this solution doesn't originate with me, I'll get it and I had to be sold on this, and I have first of all is not the generic solution to that problem. The guy you how you have to stipulate a few things before that's the thing you should do. Ok, I mean, if you effectively fight back. Will then by honouring Yet- and I have lots of thought about that sure like if you are in the situation where it is a choice between lying down on the floor and getting immobilized right. You know that you're you're, gonna, get tied up in front of your family or you can run running, is better because running running starts the clock taking where the person who now is
holding your family hostage knows that you are now somebody help writer surrounding then no, I again, I think he mounted a really successful argument. Malcolm free guy I enjoyed as it was like, provide a fairly amass argument. It is incredibly, might go, live with in all. You know, I think. Maybe it's a male thing. Maybe it's me. I think it's a male thing, but, yes, I would say of seven nights a week that I fall asleep three of the nights before I go to bed. I do without some kind of scenario where I'm going to defend my family. Ready in the middle of the night is something that's always in my mind and so in these hundred Thou and scenarios. I've created my mind. Never did I just sprint principle at all. When you hear someone you resent back say that that's the movie really take shelf guys. They all you have to imagine
that would have your break down almost be worse as the debtor vivier them. The look in your in your daughters, I believe, but it actually, you, Prime, when even new logically that's the thing. It is an extremely hard thing to to imagine doing by the bright, the bright line. I think you need to have which, but the bright, the bright line, I think you need to have which I, which I would defend really against any challenge, is that you should never let yourself be immobilized what I was going to see you kind of reverse engineering, of very commonly known thing, which is ever go to a second location with somebody it's better get to get shot right there in the street and get in a car and end up at a second located. Nothing good ever happens to the person whose taken to a second crime scene,
This is a right and an example is the prize birthday party for any. You know this from the movies, but you also know this from just reading what what the police say about what happens in those cases so rise of it that it never gets easier to fight for your life, with whatever tools we have available, then it is right when somebody's same get in the car and drive yeah or whatever it is make aware parallel. But that's kind of it reminds me of the ruin off road racing witches whenever you're freaked out flora, because the front of the Carl lighter whatever you're gonna hit or go over our jump off our better off with a light front end, but it's a real counter, intuitive muscle memory thing you have to train yourself out of, like all look at trying to figure out how to apply that my life, I'm sure, there's a bunch of as many weeks back to them are complied with, and I was saying this cumulative knowledge that were born into it The way is our Achilles, isn't it in that your job
person, myself included, I driver all day long. The super high tech car, I'm talking on the phone at Super high tech and then I just start feeling like I ever accomplish this stuff that, like I'm, really bring Yet again, so it's important to remember that, yes, we are smarter, an exponential fashion over chimps in ways, but at the same time were also dumber than we givers helps credit for quite often right, ear, wow. This is a point that was made by David Crack hours, very, who really wonderful biologists, his running the Santa Fe Institute, which is of interdisciplinary think tank that brings together biology and physics and economics, and you ve been doing fast. I work for decades now and his point about this is that there are certain technology is cognitive, highly competitive with our acquired talents and other technology is cognitive, Lee Complimentary
Britain tools you use, make you worse at doing things that other people who never had those tools were actually pretty good at la la HANS like navigating like so like GPS with most people can't read maps anymore, find their way in the city because they never took the time to figure out where anything was because are totally dependent on their under fallen yeah. So that's it s, Cognitive Lee, competitive with us, but there are other told in language itself. It gives you you're just learning the language and learning arithmetic. You can learn this with pencilling. and in the world. But you eternal eyes. It actually allows you to do things that you could otherwise do now and his favorite example of this, which I don't have any experience of, isn't abacus, which are apparently once people get good with an advocates they internalize that they can do it with their minds than I need. A physical applicants awry yeah. There's no question were getting worse at certain things.
and if our tools fail will be on a very crowded episode of survivor where yeah, but he knows, I think well that the reason it came up with him is that no his new book talking to strangers is just right. Pointing out a house herbal. We are communicating with one another if we're on proven their and our group of any kind. You want to construct whether its police and people getting pulled over or innumerable ways we don't understand different groups that were so bad at it in the question is why why do we think we're so great at you know, and I think it's because we are aware of that many people can communicate with two authors and they understand those things and we see very regularly. So we just kind of assume that were probably not bad at it, but in fact, were quite bad at it and we could be getting worse at that. I think perhaps we're getting worse at it too. Knowledge would be culpable for that. Ok, so when you and I emailed, we talked about we're gonna, be different. Government decision today that's one that what you and I were kind of made to have for different reasons, but the topic today
is living unexamined examined life before we like drill down into the particulars of that globally. Do everything to yourself Sometimes I really beyond the hamster wheel upstairs and employing all the tools I have at my disposal- and I still this thought pops up in my head, which is like how much you stop fucking thinking in exist on planet earth. I have some fantasy that there are people who are just like waking up and they're having coffee, and then they go to bed that night and everything just happened and it didn't require any self analysis or inventory taking It seems a little bit a jury us in an enviable the aid. Is that not even exist? Is there a human being that just kind of floating through life and is not plagued by all the earlier racket, or you can just take some heroic work to get there? But there is no question that those people exist or you know people, but out of the factory, didn't
the wine and I wondered now- I think, that's a pretty unlikely or it may be some form of brain damage, Buckshot Yazoo. The high functioning thoughtless person is that's a hard one feature of the of the operating system that you have to admit. I eat a meditation or some other path of recognizing that ninety nine percent of your self talk is actually occurring to no good purpose as producing largely negative emotions and expectations and rehearsals. Not that thought is not useful, then again thought to go back to where we started. Thought is the thing that differentiates us from chimps. You know that you know virtually it's. It's entirely a matter of being able to articulate ideas both to ourselves and other people and then act on those are concepts but we're totally taken in by this contest.
And we live that a layer of discourse. Seventy within our own minds were having a conversation with ourselves, which in some strange way, presupposes that there is more than one of us there right. Oh yeah, the eye is talking to me in a way that seems frankly, psychotic me if you externalize it, and if you just didn't, keep your mouth shut, you would be the crazy person on the sidewalk who is demonstrably crazy, because they're talking to them, those women, but in every one, is talking in themselves all day long anyway, there just not vocalize yeah, always Neri quiet moment, my head
I mean I almost never forward ebbed. Everyone discovers that when they tried to meditate or or do any practice, whether when you asked a focus on anything without getting lost in thought- and this is, this is a challenge that we can give to our listeners, but if they just trying to focus on anything for fifteen seconds or there'd, be the people who would at some point those fifteen seconds, a thought is going to appear unrecognized. They won't see a thought as a thought. It'll simply seem to be
what they are you didn't write I'll, be thinking. You, though, the think what I can do this with fifty seconds as easy within their already lost a lot of right or not and they're, not recognising that. Yet, even though, unlike is going well yeah right on the breath, I am seeing a bird outsider a natural yeah. This is easy. What was this guy talk about? The conversation started? They won't have noticed and then the other cohort will be the people who recognise just how ceaselessly they're getting buffet by thought and how vulnerable their attention is need moment and then how that it's just very hard to pay attention for even three seconds at a time and then they'll be a bitch I need a band of expert meditated were able to do it right, but he really is a as much for training as being able to get a golf ball three hundred yards right, like it
Is it the balls not moving just sitting there on a key does have to swing once and you hid it, and it goes straight, and you know problem solved frightened right, but when you think of how much training goes into being able to do that rely on, will you did a great great job, You played an excerpt from your app on your podcast took the app is waking up, and then you played an excerpt on making sense, and you just gotta ask this guy. I question the devil got me thinking. While I was driving at side note, your voice is one of the few things I can get. My I've got to stop its rearing hypnotic. It's one of the things I like most about you or the irony is. I have this waking up app, but people many people use the false wait. A second letter monitor I haven't. I have dozed off listening. I thank you for that and others also going as far as that goes out sanction to use it. But you cannot just asked the king
there's so much stuff to focus on in life, and what do you want to focus on in that's a decision you make, then it's kind of something net we they take for granted, but just like your eyes, open in my case, I hear too people fighting almost every morning. There's a foreign a six year old that are in some way. You know dust up. For God knows what either it I want my eyes open and now I'm a tendering to that, and then it go straight into the routine and then or maybe I'd get up and rush out. The door got work. Whenever thing just happens after another, and at no point do I take like ten minutes ago, or what did I want to focus on today or what? What what direct No, my trying to aim the ship in any of these things. None of us are really in time they even evaluate the week we get to choose what we focus on in It can be very hard and in challenging to focus on two things we'd like to I all even be laying in bed with my daughter reading, a book which is, I wouldn't agent. The thing that's gonna be purist and mouse joy inducing and
often it is in then. Yet often, while it's happening I'm reading out loud, I can hear the words coming out, but I'm off fantasizing about nine different things, things I need to do and I think you fucking piece she can be present for this, it's always a most disappointed in those moments. When I caught you should really. I want to put these in the vault for the rest of my life, and yet I'm thinking about you know how much mileage I'm racking up driving Santa Corridor every day here, whether this comes back to what it would mean to live unexamined life and why that would be a better default program. than the one that's installed. Many of us notice that are real wealth are time time. As the is the non renewable resource, you don't get a second of it back and you don't know how much you have that is the frame and which will were living and were only temporarily associated with all the things we can acquire in this time, even more deeply than that. What we have is our attention
Things that you would. We know we can squander our time even when we guard it, and you can guard an hour with your tit to spend with your child say I'm really just going to read her a book, I'm a good dad just she's, no love this right in the story of the items right emanated, yet us as an hour, and we can still below it if our attention as elsewhere runs a really of the cash value of guarding your time is to use your attention wisely each moment, and once you understand it, that's the game. On some level, you can bring that tool into any other use of your time. You're gonna for you, you, you won't just inevitably find yourselves and situations that don't seem like a good use of your time here in the doctors waiting room,
and he's an hour late and you're just sitting there with a bunch of bad magazines in front of you. When you understand that you are really only as the as your attention is in each moment. Everything that really the difference between happiness and suffering or in a wisdom and confusion is using attention and a profound way and in a meditation, is really that the art of breaking that spells of your attention can actually be fun. free and available to simply put it where you want it to be of you. If you're relating to your daughter in that moment to actually have free attention is to be able to pay so much attention to her that you'd, essentially disappear. We yeah yeah yeah. I can best cases. That is what happened: yeah yeah yeah. I guess they did the thing I always think about and as I get spells of being busier busier and I'm going from one to three jobs, never what I
what I thought I would have said this night, still I'm seeing the movie, but I know the concept of the movie, this Adam Sandler movie, click where it was like I ever saw in. I don't either, but if I'm getting it right, they gate, he gets a magic, remote control and can basically just fast food through the stuff that he doesn't want to be doing I find myself regular we're going like. Ok, I get through this week at work, shooting the show so that I can get to this way. Get to that and then also was some overall awareness of well, then that put you three down, the road does it'll, that's just the nature of life. It'll be one thing after another until you're on your death bed going how, while I wasn't currently present must glad. I fear I raised a head to this moment- is exactly what happened that is worth lingering on, because it meant this mirage lie. Quality to every experience is something that we can notice and weak week. We can price that in now I, when you're, looking forward to something when you're looking for the weekend
where the vacation or whatever it is. You have to recognise that you are essentially deferring your happiness to some future point which You already know, will never truly arrive. Rikers like when you're on the vacation, you're dealing with the hassle of checks to the hotel and earlier in the hotel? There is some other hassle that you're dealing, whether you just gear if that happens at homes happening in our aim and I'm close, the smaller rule. Eighty years have fewer toys right on your bouncing between the beach and the poor lad, and then you gotta put on some blog and if only get there, some blog on now I gotta get to get it off, and it's just you you just you never arrive as you can. Actually let your attention land in the present moment and to be able to do that again, is a skill and as it is worth viewing well being, as a skill right is arise, something you can learn or fail to learn or learn badly in those their right and wrong answers here with respect to how to use your mom,
I do think most people have become a knee jerk thought of like what I can't meditate, I'm not the type of person that we can sit still so that as true almost everyone in the they all everyone. Even I you know, Howard Stern, always talks about transcendental meditation, I thought or if he liked it I'll, try thinking I'm the bad candidate, a sum up put it in a category of that I'm a bad candidate, for no says you know- and you see like alive shell- is, I think, you're too smart for it didn't exactly as well that that is the only way. Something along those lines, but I don't know that smart adjust knows that some people are more susceptible or less susceptible to hypnosis that that is true. There's a scale is right. Stafford scale, hypnotize ability, but meditation for virtually every body is. Is it a skill that they simply don't have in the beginning and that some people show a natural aptitude for it? But
it's, like you know anything juggling a ride in a unicycle or something that you just have not done. You dont know how to do it, the worst case and in the most common case, there's it there's old long interval there where people think there actually doing it, but there actually so distracted. They can't even notice their capacity for distraction, and the right they just close our eyes and they think with her eyes, closed and they think, okay, those that I just meditated, yeah I feel that greater rate over the reward of young is not. This is not very interesting. Pull a couple guns upset, I think, are funded bring up. I had never truly understand good Buddhism. I had read Arthur in high school, and then it wasn't till I read you ve all Harare Book Momo Day ass. He articulated in a way that I was like. Oh, I fully understand that an end I can relate. Two. If I had known the old axiom of like life is suffering, I guess that's. It derives from Buddhism.
In some way or other- is actually based on a Miss transit They show here at a time and a stranger to me. It is not that there is obviously a lot of suffering in life right, IRAN, its inevitable right. What were we will encounter old age and and sickness and death and you're? Even if everything works great for us and we live to be a thousand, we will see the people around us, dine and and and and that will be a source of suffering so that costs grow suffering is intrinsic to life. But the buddhas point, this often translators life is suffering actually the translation of the term, the sanskrit term Duca, which is best translated as unsatisfactory or unsatisfactory, angriness end and it it comes back this mirage, like quality that we were just discussing wary because experience by its very nature is impermanent rate like an idiot. First is not there. That is, there.
Then it goes away. Re conditions come together, you know or become some memory that really prices Emberon. Yes, I will answer the comical truth of what how but then you're just left with the memory right is eight or end and then that just keeps arising within that passes away right. So there's not nothing. Stays in consciousness is durable. Sense impression that you can just stick with run, losing it get the taste of ice cream so fully. You can't failures that your mouth with enough ice cream so that it just stay, is like ice cream. The area and the truth is that the paradox areas you will you wouldn't even wanted to two were were trying to anchor, are well being to a cascade of changing sensory and emotional phenomena, and you know it is trying to grab
onto a waterfall re. Well nigh it. It is it's the Buddhist point about suffering. There are unsatisfactory, as is that he wasn't denying that there are all kinds of levels of happiness to be experienced, is they're all and permanent, and so that those set instability where people are led to believe that they can successfully but come happy. I just, as you said, you'd deferring their happiness to such a time. Where the present moment just gonna yawn wide enough, you ve checked up everything on your to do less for all time. everyone around you. There's no problems is no conflict. Now you can just enjoy or if your family and end you're, you know your aunt but the reality is that you actually can't become happy. You can only be happy and what were in our efforts to become happy are efforts
arrange the world in such a way that we have a good enough reason for that period of time until something bad happened to actually relax into the present moment and give ourselves licence to be happy lay her. But that is a a quality of attention that you can actually Marshall directly and if you can't Marshall, it directly the happiness you achieve by arrange everything on the titanic, we'll be you know again fleeting right or left for an hour, and then the next out will arise at the next desire will arrive stating arms you dare, We are supported by honey. You know what honey is it's the coolest shopping tool you could possibly use on the internet. It automatically finds the best promo code and apply them to your car in its for Reed.
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Your best price and apply at policy genius, dotcom policy genius. always get the future on better get life insurance right, but back to you while the thing yeah other when I guess unsatisfactory is very similar. Word is that he phrase it as the suffering, is actually the craving that craving is suffering and that even if you're happy our natural state of thought is to go to. I recognize this is joyful. How do I either a make this last forever or how do I hide and it even one notch further? This is my thing. I'm guilty of sopes, I might nor yet somewhere now let us adopt the whole desert. It can all you know, I'm just doing math and my head of how great I could feel even at the apex of your serotonin dopamine dump its. Desiring another state of being that is so uncomfortable toy.
and they neurology. There is interesting because The main dopamine dump comes not in the actual satisfaction of the desire. It's in the Anticipate of the saddest action, razor blade illegally junkies who throw up before they when they score the heroin before they even shoot it They can build marijuana sometime value. I didn't know that yeah we know here and in the right doze will make you throw up with euphoria I've experience at once on an empty. I may well. You have set out his like. This is what is termed my girlfriend. That area was throwing up. When I looked, I go. You ok lines because I know the latter, but he was already goes again. This is something that is counter intuitive, but if you pay attention, you can see that its psychologically true that most of your,
desire it doesn't fully land on the object of desired. Your tumbling forward to the next thing, with every bite of ice cream or animal sacks illustrates it really was. so you're not actually like fantasizing but the orgasm per se. But it's all the lead up. That is the year for he knew that can be hours of distraction as opposed the event itself, and much of it is the anticipation of again this evening. This is true for sex, but is actually true for drugs of abuse or anything else. It's the dopamine, you know to the media. Frontal cortex is most triggered by the dim. The knowledge that the reward is definitely coming right like you like? Ok, I have a in half a year, but that they most reinforcing moment
The boy can I relate to that. But don't you think some things in life are permanent lake parents, love for a child or something like those are things that aren't feelings and fleeting. They just exist in your world war. This is what so humbling about living unexamined, lively, even among fairly wise, compassionate enlivened, well resourced people. You can recognise how fragile your love is, not a perfect, unconditional lover of even the people you love most in the world and unjust,
how about auctions? Could your child be such that you would feel I can. I want to get out of the room like Ireland. I dont like this is that there is. This emotion is not synonymous with love like you have this abstract idea that you love your child. We love your spouse and even you may believe you loved them unconditionally, but when you actually take a moment to moment inventory of the quality of your emotion in the company of these people you're, not Saint Francis of Assisi Ray. I know you're just are this reactive entity. Yes, amazing, just see the kinds of judgments and the poverty of emotion you are capable of, even when you are surrounded by the people, you love most in the world who have made the biggest commitment of time and energy for your attention is so vulnerable to the next I'll. Add you take a totally uncomfortable moment, which is screaming child in? Of course you don't think what happened warrants all this screaming
and then you add, on another layer, or I do at least words like, and now I feel guilty that I can't enjoy the I now I feel like God, I'm I'm not the person I wished. I was on top of being inconvenienced and made uncomfortable by this other person. So take a double layer was over me and I think this wisdom in that, in that, once we have global goals, that I think is worth having is to generally and more and more specifically, live without regret. Then we want to get to the end of your life without massive regrets. I think you want to more and more get to the end of every week every day and every hour without regret my answers so that you could look back on it and say I would do it examined
away again right and in so far as none of us even approach that that is a statement of the chaos orders that the negligence of our lives right, you're, just not we're not using our time wisely. If, at the end of every given day, the honest assessment would be why the hell did. I spend my time that would really like that's a catastrophe and unless you that's, u losing the only real resource you have, which is your time and was ill understood is that mental training is a thing. Rather we we all know that physical train is a thing, but that that used to be a fairly esoteric knowledge. And when you go back a hundred years or hundred twenty years, the only people lifting weights
we're just these crazy guys. A framework has been there. I'm an illiterate literally wherein, like that leopard skin single. It shares our right and then, if you just imagine, trying to sell that activity to people who had no concept for it, so they go go you. Let me get this straight I'm gonna walk around for an hour every day, just arbitrarily picking up heavy objects we bear down and and doing it to the point of view of real discomfort. It doesn't look fine, it isn't funny and certainly not in the beginning and and what's the point and now basically everyone understands the wisdom of doing this in a couple things we understand about a it has benefit. I think anyone whose tried exercising with an irregularity will immediately experienced the benefits but So we get really comfortable with the notion that there's no last work out there. You're, not gonna. Have that perfect set. You got your six pack in nice packs and then you're done
again a be an ongoing daily or other other. Whatever your your programme as it never aunt em. Actually, it's interesting. That's worthy analogy breaks down in a way that is to our advantage. I made it is a kind of a happy brow and their own choices that their again, you can make in meditation that you don't lose and they don't actually is not that it really ends. But there's things you can recognize about the nature of the mind which you will always recognised or just that you can't on once at once, you can't unseen them right and end the scene of these things actually changes you for the better, but also a daily practice or whatever fits, and your life is obviously advice.
all right I mean it's Yale year but again, a grown up. The goal is to from the point of view of meditation, is not to become a meditate, her ass, not to pay him a good, meditate or Africa has actually recognised something about the nature of your mind such that you dont suffer unnecessarily. You know for the rest of your life, in whatever situations you happen to be, and it is true that the path to making those discoveries for most of us does recur. Fire, paramedic training in meditation so sitting in a once a day or twice a day or we're going on long retreats, and all that makes sense, but the analogy of physical exercise breaks down a little bit in that would working out will get to the point where you're as fit as you can possibly be. If you get in a very serious about it, you're you know you'll, take it as
you can take it even genetically and then you'll began to get older and older and a Yo Yo Yo Yo peak wherever you thirty five right and then Europe will be all downhill from there, but you you're on the outside. You wanna, yes, as I've noticed, but it is still good for you but you know until you're dying your dying day right and it's like you said this is a wise thing to do with your life, but it announced it would be if it were possible at some point. You know doing pull ups right like if you could just do thirty pull ups set of thirty pull. Ups clean. You have some kind of breakthrough where your back would be it for the rest of your life beyond their dispute. Your basically you just occasionally just do a couple up. Just remember that you know the honor. That's how you got there, but you just have a fantastic back for the rest of your library areas, dream there's something analogous likely to that in meditation yeah, but it's not in the gate that there's a lot of pull ups involved for most people
Let me ask you that yet another concept that it was introduced to me by you ve, all, which I'm sure a lot of people knew before him, but that I am really Conscious of all the time now, your expiring and shall self verses, your narrative self and everything I've really comprehended that I fine, myself being able to recognise what thing is being- nervous. So in the case of the crying kid the experience yourself, I dont know who enjoys that unite, or no apparently, you may be- could get to appoint you're like oh, yes, this is life and I'm living it and I'm in the middle of an that's great
in general. It is hard on your ears in the union's key are constantly coming over the game plan. I can finally get through to them. Not do this wave your york, whatever the ill of that that is at once, I drank of it, but we have to talk about the experienced and and remembered selves, but in a reef framing can change your ear emotional relationship situations like us like. If you look at the crying kid- and you think ok, this is the video game- then I'm in right now this the video game of parenthood and I've been annihilated at this point you know thanks. Wait around like this is the boss, by that I keep losing riper right so that there has to be a way of fundamentally transforming the situation. If you actually approach it like a game, are high tat can just to free up some some colleagues here, like I have another shot at sea as like this. as I have not heard of them, and I think I hear that right, child and ethnic there are first child was miraculously easy. Now we thought we should write
were so good at level figure bet they're going game images like everything that work did not does not work with this person, which is thrilling challenge, I liked the challenge of it. I'm, like I'm, not gonna, quit trying to get through to her figure out how to you know, gently steer her her in one direction, the other- and so I guess in that way- when I, when I have the presence and I'm a girl like oh yeah. This is my fine challenge that helps, but you also compared it to refrain me things you compared like. If you dropped into a meditation in the experience was similar to dropping into the fourth SAT, a bench press. Those are both could be uncomfortable things, but just then the knowledge that, when your will
physically exercise and you go. All of this is going to result in games. This is going to be ultimately beneficial. I'm going to have a reward that maybe last the next fifteen hours there. That is all just mental framing. It's it's objectively uncomfortable right, and yet you think your way through that thing to recognize their is that so much of our sense of whether an experience is good or bad is the conceptual frame. So I like that analogy of those of us who are addicted to working out. We love it and it with the pain, is part of you that the feeling of going to muscle failure when your lifting ways, that's part of why we're doing it, and like that experience that if you woke up in the middle of the night with those sensations, he was good call nine hundred and eleven. If you could terrify right. So it's because you don't have a cake, coherent story
Why you're feeling this way, whereas in a jam this is part of the programme and its part of your pleasure said it. But back to the point you just raised about the experiencing self, and this more retrospective is often called the remembered their remembering seldom right. It is not due to you of all. This is subdued Danny Common, as I started disagree about with respect to how to interpret these data they. This is what the data show that that there's really two apparently incompatible ways in which we can score are well being ring, as others thee moment to moment question they can be answered of what is it like to be us righteous second by second, throughout our right now, you and I are sent in a room. It's a little chile, I'm thinking how I could a left that he'd around, but I was nervous, it was gonna get too hot, MID Interview, Langer, that's happening right now, the bright the as yet so this there's this are. Our life is doled out. In these moments end, you can track people's sense of well being
and then ended the way they operationalize. This scientifically is think they give people essentially like a beeper, or you know that probably now an app on their phone, which hangs them at random moments throughout throughout the day, and they just have to report their sense of well being at that moment, just like the how good right now, what is the metric is, like just add a ten year. I think I have actually done an experiment like this, but it would be some scale of one to ten. Just you know, by the one being I'm actually miserable and and ten businesses. One of the greatest Moliere life and they re these just give lots of you no five and six and seven, and then that obviously bears some relationship to the things that are going on in their lives right. But what you discovers that a lot of that signal is all of the all of the duke of all of the unsatisfactory as of life and interest being stuck in traffic let you know I put my. I just broke a shoelace and that's like all these little things he's micro moments right that are annoying, that keep people.
Somewhere around their their happiness, set point whatever. It is missing people or are lucky, they have a much higher You got a lottery and, as some people were in a fairly depressive in and so there's the thought that if you could just add up all those moments, that would be the way to tally a person's wellbeing right. But the problem is that when you talk to People- and you you just ask and has a how's it goin how's your life, you invoke a very different module in the brain. You get this. This wasn't what Danny chemicals, the remembering self, which is this part of the mind that has apparent access or thinks it has access to some global browser store. I, if you're, not thinking about what it was like to be at the dry cleaners, and recognise that they had lost your shirt and you're. Like that's ten minutes of your life,
that's not what showing up there. That's you going, I may I got. I went to college I get I graduated. I have here, there's a jury and are basically healthy and you ve, you ve got a good marriage and you know you got a vacation this coming in six weeks. See now that you're looking forward to an and then you have that particular module also applies to any discreet period of experience. So if you have an hour with somebody right and when asked how that will, our was the only person in you who can talk is not the person who can take a perfect inventory of all of the seconds in that our is the person who will just remember the peak experience and what that was like and the most recent as strong recently effect. So
he's, got the peak and rule the way with the way. The remembering self assesses the quality of an experience when I was a vacation or a dinner, or any discreet period of time you, you basically remember they positive or negative valence of the most intense the experience and you remember how it ended resonant like a bill on your vacation. If your choice now the hotel and something horrible happens with the bill or would have like, is twice as much as you thought, and I did you know that back propagates to the whole vacation and you feel like I'm, never going to have some to marry again right. Well, weirdly. We have this shared friends de real now rise. Yet Seeber has this great thing. He raises like you, ask a guy like: oh you went to Prague. Would you like that? Don't go to Prague hogs, the worst I hate priority was the food them no I'm fuckin lost my wallet like on the second level, but it is all about the book
laws. The role of navigation is their research on the percentage of people who remember things positively verses negatively, or is it just I'll? Fifty fifty yell, I'm sure there is on the actual dont know, but that that is the important point is that you can really uncouple these things right. So, like you can be somebody who is wrong about what it was like to be you through all of those micro moments of inexperienced will save occasion, and then you have a global assessment of it. The does naturally bear my relationship to what it was like to be you, but that the issue for- and this is all you know- what's it so interesting about Danny's work here- is that the truth is that the only one who makes decisions about what to do in life is the one who's anchored to these goals,
bull assessments, it is the remembering self. So when you talk to people about what they want and what satisfied them globally about their lives, you're, not tracking the moment to moment wellbeing issue much at all, your tracking, the memories and so in a indifferent Danny's account people are trying. Do a choir, satisfying memories ass, like that is the modus operandi for now, myself included living a satisfying life, and yet that is actually almost fully divorce, above all from the moment to moment, question of what is like to be them and so ended. This is where were you here? I disagree em. He basically has decided it is hopeless to try to integrate these two modules, renegade right, there is no. There is no there there, one thinking about human well being really been there. I, the person you talk to is the one who's making the decisions here,
only one who comes online when it when making a. mobile evaluation, of how good life is, but it's uncoupled from the moment a moment reality of what is like to be that person will that they did the most concrete. I think example that we want them relate to. Is your on Instagram in your scrawling through all these stimulating photographs in that could go on for two hours and the whole two hours you'll? Be that's not the right word, but happy you'll be entertained. You'll be focused on that thing in its distracting enough. Whatever the thing is and then at night you're lying in bed and you going while I spent four hours a day, swirling through Instagram and that's not at peace. That's the the narrative of the remembrance of like warm running the story of my life and that's not an some chapter of my life than I stared at as six by foreign screen for four hours right. So I think when I was introduced, concept. I lean towards. Oh, I feel like you should be served
team. The narrative side of your life, like you, should be servicing the thing you be proud of at the end of the day that the way you spend your time here But what would is curious, though, is that in the nihilist. The aliens are watching us from above who gives a shit about the stories story relevant like us. Summing up our lives in in trying to decide whether it was fruitful endeavour. Not is that not just ego like oh, I did these things in the end, if you say your face, the experiential self. For that narrative self. It really tricky because I dont think spending your whole life. Looking at Instagram is advisable, yet it same time. I do think the narrative is just somewhat ego, your dns,
it's a very it's hard to say which, which way to point the ship yellow. This is where my my interest in meditation causes me to diverge from Danny's analysis of this, because I think you can actually integrate these two views of the mind and bring them into closer register. Is such that you're actually spending your moment to moment existence on earth in more and more fulfilling ways once you recognise that your moment to moment sense of well being is a matter of it Mention is really not a matter of the content of experience right. You can get a look at it Instagram if you're, looking in that when with the right frame of mind- and you can get it
Anything else resurrect literally, you can get it just paying attention to your breath, which has to be the most boring object in the world. If the breath can become interest in and a source of actual rapture Fer a concentrated mind will then anything will do right. Certainly, Instagram will do so and so that the the punchline, as that is possible to recognise the consciousness itself has already that way. The consciousness has an intrinsic openness and uncontacted knows and self sufficiency. They you can keep gonna dropping back into that end when it seems like that, experience is coming from the world
If you have that lets them high associated with sex or athletics or something you just got some great news and it just could have canceled. All of your worries. Do you know for the next five minutes. Right, like all, is right with the world. For that moment was being unlocked. There is an intrinsic quality of of consciousness itself, just the uncontracted state of being wide open to ask. It would be easy to think that it was the event itself. That's all that's always deal the polio. Nails were Marta. Yes, yes like when I buy air Jordans online, I at least get wet with the knowledge that it's gonna be. Seventy minutes top is not only last like I'm gonna buy this, and maybe for seventeen minutes and you're, not even wearing them now, so what I don't even enjoy wearing them just enjoy feeling like
have the kid in high school that couldn't have them. So just close. The loop on this point so Danny thinks it's hopeless to integrate these two, but I think you can keep both views of the mind in view and get them to converge. So you would you can recognise that your moment to moment feeling of well being really is a matter of what you're doing, with your attention and the present and then choose what you want to pay a ten read like I like: how long do you wanna be angry for railway anger has arisen? Are you simply gonna be identified with it? Motivated say, the angry thing that arranges your life in that moment and that your relationships other people or do you want to actually just to let it go. And she let me just a little less than the neurophysiology have a dissipate and act
with a clear head about what I'd love. When you talk about anger, because you, when you are describing at one point I was like. Oh my God is exactly how it works. Like you, you pointed out that the first five minutes for an hour- whatever its irrelevant of it is just happening right. You find out some, you don't mean it want to find out or whatever is happening, but then you actually have to continued to shovel under that of him. Like you actively have to remember, I am still pissed about this. I think of another thing that there are other things it's a mechanism that, if you, if you can't inspect it, will then it just becomes you, but once you see her machine works. Then you actually have another degree of freedom where you can decide. Oh god, I can get off this ride at any at any point reaches hard hard in your dead right like you are taking leaders like oh yeah, like I'm,
I get angry at work and then am I right home, I'm just like throwing gas on it in a room number, even better points in the emails getting longer and longer the conversations getting longer and I'm active in it. I'm I'm, but this is where the room, the experience himself and the remembering self can converge in their quality assessments. They they can get more and more accurate, the steward of the moment to moment experience. arrive at the place of global assessment and honestly say that well like I do you like this, I'm now the kind of person who isn't gratuitously lighting his hair on fire right now for several times a day. Yeah and my relationships are better as a result and the choices are making in my career or better as a result. So all of this can be made to converge, but it's important to recognize that there really there there many modules in the mind- and this is not a- were a kind of a piecemeal Congress of Sir,
of some there's, not one unitary self, who you can always talk to the self in you that wants to lose weight is going to be usurped, sir, I was only minutes later by the self. It wants the chocolate chip cookie and there's no one in charge right It is like a darwinian contest of state of mind. What, in that darwinian come test, I will say we're kind of hard wired for it to be a lopsided bad,
we have way more things that are going to reward that bite of the chocolate chip cookie in the satisfaction of having avoided it and been proud of ourselves. But that's why, in this is so much of getting the global story? Right is things like discipline and he not having an ethical code if you're entirely focused on the moment, even in a meditative since they're just things, you can't decide to do that they have a longer time horizon, just like eighty two, in order to be motivated by something that has a time horizon of two years yeah some part of you has to be able to focus that far out and
day, aligned with it otherwise you'll get up every day and have no plan b and admit that there are certain lives, are amenable to that and you can be a buddhist monk and that you know that the only plan required in that office in life is just to pay more careful attention to the press. Moment, but there are many things in life. We rightfully want to do what we want. We want to build a durable civilization that allows the most creative collaboration among strangers possible. We need more than just met, asian to do that right. We need other Riley's insight we need. We need institutions that enshrine are better judgment, so that when, where real, reliably mediocre in that we have in a laws and norms that that Ankara to something that still more forward leading India one of the tricks in that for me, is just like dedication to honest
with myself which sound so simple, and yet it's really not that simple. But it's not like when I am confronted with the hot fudge Sunday at big boys, I go, you can do it, but you can't lie about it. So it's gonna be awesome for four and a half minutes and then you're going to feel like shit for three hours and as long as we agree on that we're both recognizing. This is why you no go ahead and pick it, but you can't just go all this can be awesome and then they'll be no down side of it yeah. It is interesting ones, relationship to one's future self write states of your future self inherits all the choices you're making now right and, as you turn up the present focus, you can sort of break that action is like it's like what ethical responsibility you actually have to your future self like. If you want you want the hydrogen they now the schmuck who's gonna feel bad about it. In we have managed. It is not right,
me right here and that's, and so that is again that's not the recipe for living a life without regret at every scale. Guianas Buddhism attack that exact Louisa. If you truly present what was Buddhism Missouri again to come back to this framing, you got from you of all, which is which is accurate. Buddhism spend a lot of time focusing on craving as the source of dissatisfaction like that. The optical illusion is that, because we Have all of this desire that the word and in Sanskrit his tunnel, which his is literally translated as thirst right where it when we thirst for experience and because that's the
operating system. That's installed. We assume that the only mode of living that gets us anywhere worth going is to satisfy desire the moment it comes up. So just keep this like whack, a mole with desire right and yet the unfortunate fact is that our capacity for desiring experience is bottomless and experience is in permanent. So we're just we're on this treadmill. You know or continually bailing what're you and so from a meditative point of view. The thing to recognizes that desire is also impermanent you can. You can literally just watch the desire for the hot fudge Sunday or for the air Jordans or whatever it is arise? passed away and recognise, and there was nothing you ever headed. Do you you didn't have to do it. about it. Right you, Brian literally brilliant active, is just just don't move the iron and then as possible to have a mind that is actually not moved by desires.
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We love ham celebrities then Christian deny that It should in the series, are Anthony Anderson and more Martin Rebel, Wilson, TED Dance and Mark cuban Jack. Blackened Kyle Glass of Comic Rock do oh tenacious De Megan trainer. when he had fish drew braised to anger and all start list Egypt's overlooks. for the. Why? Behind the while of questions like the following? Are women better irrigators. How do our brains control what we love to eat? Can brain science help us with our daily lives? What's the magic ingredient to having power in business, bring aims. Premiers January twentieth at eight seven central on National Geographic, it sounds like a unattractive notification of everything. That's good in life,
right so can confront that because I imagine I'm listening, I'm like ok all, while all the highlighted in my day earlier, getting hungry and satisfying it getting horny in fucking and then getting boring getting drunk whatever you will. It was so it comes down to what it's like to satisfy each of these desires or would like the high you get when you cancel the desire by gratifying raised that the Hotfoot Sunday hits turn right or your. Finally, you know uniting with the would be the object of your love. The closer you yeah, exactly disciple, of the warm bodies, have finally Leyla digress area. So again, the real moments of surrender to peek experience there. I shouldn't oversell that the pleasures of any these experiences the reality is that, most of the time, our satisfaction
fairly mediocre. Even when we're getting a good stuff right in rights, it was worse cascading across the top of the present moment and not really not. landing, but in those where we land words. Just like you forget yourself, because this is so good. Those are kind of peak experiences that keep us coming back, to the ten things that are on the menu ray. I don't change very often, but what we want is that state of mind of enough occasion of self, by a total engagement with the sea in the hearing, the smelling tasting the touching the feeling of the present moment that we want a full collision with the present such that its total,
Suffice it right. So there's no thought about past and future necessary, because this is it, and that is again a quality of attention. It's never what is attended to I mean you can get that with any arbitrary object. Until what what's paradoxical about this is that does seem to cancel the importance of any. Regular thing in life like illegal cancels. They like what was the point of having a family or haven't a career. Have you just struggling for anything if it's possible to recognise adjust the view? you outside that window. You know any arbitrary tree is the beautiful vision, we can feel like. You know, you're completely, anyone within a romance authentic to emission or progress or year anything future oriented so that so that they, the saving, grace there or or the cosmic joke, as that, even recognising this, and even spending a lot of time, training to act,
as this, for most of us were still gonna, want many other things and be taken in by those wants and have to work for them rightly cycles. Just you know I spend a lot of time thinking about these things a lot of time. Meditating I've done a lot of psychedelic said spent in my reply. I spent two years on silent retreat in my twenty I now have a meditation app which I am constantly talking about, and yet there are all kinds of things that are still important to me that require creative thought and effort to maintain rights. I bet relationships and other projects, and it's possible to more and more exemplify the life of somebody who doesn't see the point in any of those things for ITALY. Thirty years I've known I've known the logic by which someone would become a buddhist monk say or a right of a fundamental governance. And just spend all sit on a lump of among other time out, as I look at ending alive and four can be born right here at them,
and I regret that the person who is really fulfilling that programme would sort of a great right like like they like. They say they have no for they were not able to another state on the whole point, is to no longer be moved by the possibilities of experience, but what you have to realise that the state of being in which that is true of you? is so a meal is mainly tranquil and beautiful, ran like having just they like that. The p. of the times, when you can honestly say it doesn't at her. If I live or die now relic, there's no fear of death, there's no fear of loss. This dish, no problem to solve yeah but- and I would I would also just counter if I understand correctly release my understanding of it- is the transition is here, you could still be ambitious and you could still be engaged in a lot of different endeavours. The big transition in this is when I'm happiest just its now about the process and not about
the resolve begged me feels like the mindful way to be productive in instil work absolutely here with the results are not ever entirely under control and the process your life right. You that, like the results, are these micro moments again more and more living fulfilling life is figuring out how to enjoy the process. Whatever that is an asset and even how to enjoy stress meditation ultimately is not a matter of being, without stress its recognising that I get the analogy to work it out. I think, as apropos here's like when you go to the gym, you're going for the stress right York, your career, imposing the girls Yoda creatively imposing a useful stress on yourself, but you also want, be the kind of person who, when you leave the gym, can really relax their psychological analogy there, which, as you can
an mindfully engage in a very stressful creative enterprises, the crucial difference between someone who actually knows how to practice and someone who doesn't is being able to just put down the burden whenever Once again back to anger, how long are you are? You can spend being angry the next time Anger arise as well. If you dont know how to meditate, you will be angry for as long as the neural physiology and the situation dictates and whether that's a minute or an hour or where's it whenever it is right, with all the attendant consequences in all the bad conversations, all the bad decisions, all the bad tweets that that's that involve us, an army of hatred, so you'll, deranged I have as much as you do once you can actually decide to just like all of it. Then you can decide at any point to live.
That is the very near term rational goal limit. If your meditation can't do that, then is not actually working for a residence, a diverse, discreet sky. All that right. I've been near term landmark, which you know people will acquire or not, and I would recommend that they, if they haven't than they they need. Keep looking into it, yeah and even calling in distress it did. This is another area where, like refrain me, Matt is useful when his stress can also be dean as excitement. You know how you think of it for me as say a comedian who walks out on stage some time with now the script, and I have to entertain people for two hours that stress is fuel for me. It makes you my brain operate in a way doesn't normally when I'm seeing it as like. I hereby recognising sensations
and these sensations generally for me, resulting in me thinking quicker in performing in whatever does have to be a negative thing. Read them. One point there, which are often found useful, is that its helpful to just connect with the raw energy of a so called negative emotion right off, like if your anxious, before going on stage that framed one way, that's a problem another way. That's just the energy of the moment. Right be quicker on your feet with that wind in your sales than without it. The negative valence of it can just come off. If you just re frame it that way, So it is with any negative emotion. I get like the freedom that comes from mindfulness, real mindfulness in this this or different stages of practice, but there's a crucial stage where you recognize, where it's not about being mindful, so that
Negative emotions go away where you're not you're, not meditating, so the anger won't go away on pushing it out of consciousness. That actually is never actually mindfulness may mindfulness entails truly accepting whatever's arising and that will I wouldn't even be not craving, leave from that anxiety would be recognising. This is something that's happening and it has been of some value yet orgies. come in interested in him just been wide open to, because it is interesting like you're. Just this thing and in because this kind, Texas change now, there's a lot of stuff going on Bio chemically and that's a fascinating back to being a human or not just stagnant near, but it also when you connect to it purely at the level of the narrow physiology, just the feeling in your chest, academic and is it ceases to have any psychological import right. Then it becomes a lot like.
a pain in your knee or indigestion, or something that you wouldn't normally while it might be unpleasant. You wouldn't read into it a global assessment and are you wearing out or so ass. The idea you're not like. Why am I the kind of person who had who feels this each on his thy you're right but story here. The recession has only real anxious in front of a crowd. You feel it I'll fuck like. Why am I this guy right, I'm failing yet and so to break the link between the character assassination and the sheer physiology of it? You can just the open and interested in the raw feeling of the sensations. Yes, my fullest nutcase, but when it really works, there is a kind of one taste. This one tasted area jargon phrase within one school of Buddhism, good taste to experience in a way that it really is just consciousness and its contents and each moment, but mainly analogy that often used to a mirror like it. Just as a mere reflects everything impartially
and does matter whether what's what's been reflected, uglier, beautiful or whether we You know something on fire and I thank them from the the mirrors frame of reference. There's just an expanse of light and consciousness. Has that quality to it when you keep dropping back and merely witnessing experience as arises rises. You notice more and more than that which is aware of joy, is exactly the same thing as that which is aware of sadness. So then that would cause you to wonder or than why put so much emphasis in injured in your life on seeking joy and seeking to avoid The truth is in a wisdom. More and more is a matter of having a kind of base line of tranquil and well being amid those initiatives, changes in life such that the joys common and end the sadness as well- and that's the thing that's
Really it's it's under sold in our advertising. I would just say it doesn't seem to be a state of mind that, as a kid is glory- I'd anyway, that you were going to seek it, but highquality yeah in in a you know the real goals contentment to know contentment is: we are inadequate the most elusive thing right here is constantly re calibrating how you feel inside or chasing something that all recalibrate that, and so the notion of contentment is the most elusive thing in the world and it's not something that makes for a good move. The good I mean about either in this great story. So it's not seemed to be something that we value as a virtue are something that we aspire to have. No, it's it needs to be. rounded buddy. Yes, it's right whereas, but it is the place when you pay attention. It is the place you want
with your words at each substantive them lack in alignment. He always I gotta have as people in the alternative is to constantly be imposing your desires on the people around you. You want all these things, most you're going to judge these things you're gonna, be they say something that doesn't totally align with what you wanted them to say, and your contract yeah, I mean you're trying to put out a fire with your words and yet somebody get them back in alarm at the hours they want, and I hope that you and your constantly reacted to everything rain and essentially, like you your mind, is already like Twitter, rightly Twitter. It's just the most reacted in a caricature version of this, but basically your twitter feed is already your mind. It's not the bias statement it's the young her. I will, I think, like attack by somebody go look at their violence like
love all day is above all as their colonies and bring her is now. But one of the things I was about is it so you ve put together this up and you have an approach to meditation and mindfulness and his kind of like. Oh, what are the ethics of this reasoning, they just happen. A watch if you ve seen it yet. The the background yeah I've seen about half of it. I love it. I don't know why that ITALY is to me is a charlatan of such heroic proportions is really the iron I lived. I listened to. The parties is a great thirty, four thirty podcast on him like a five or six partner, that just phenomena can my voice was an early and others the image he was unreal. Israel, real sport, setting the same that women would pay one million dollars for a out of his seamen. Riches is there
I deserve buyer that, as there is a major threat to the sentence, I can't read with much dignity. It turns out. There's no there's no right number to put at the end of that makes you you sound like a man should uttering you're right. You have any five dollar signs where you know he was in a situation where he came here and he sold these item of its twenty six poses, I think, and here twenty six, the kind of patent a patented sequence opposes yes in that was his magic recipe will later to be the old as being minimally his masters recipe, and you are in a position where it's like none of these thoughts are proprietary too. You, but maybe your your arrangement of them are or is there synthesis could be proprietary so yet, where you drawing from and what's the same Harris spam was, though I am drawing from my experience
Above all, I am not a mud, comfortable, saying anything that I can't empirically stand behind myself and MR or or if I, if I say something that I can vouch for directly I'll, make that very clear, and this is what they say in the teachings about ex wife. but you know who knows I'm making claims about what is true or what I have. What I think we have good reason to think is true about the nature of the mind. Are the nature of the human of rain or be reality larger remit. There many claims that I make throughout my work and and and also throughout the the waken up course, because again, my background here is in neuroscience and philosophy and, as many can streams of of knowledge intersect, in here, which puts me in a kind of unique. I certainly not bill myself as the world's greatest authority on any one thing
There are certainly better meditated than me, and I ve studied with them right have had to have had the benefit of studying You didn't recognize them like a while this this dude or the scale is on some love, I'm just not at you. the slow yea all rally yeah, because it was first of all. May I had the benefit of of studying with some of those who are widely acknowledged, some of the greatest meditation masters of the of the twentieth century, but this in these guys were in their eighties or Seventys. When I met them TAT S, what tests of that would be as or anything demonstrable is? Is there anything I obviously the famous photo of the guy lighting himself on fire and doesn't burning alive. I can easily look at that. Go about some far behind might capabilities. I couldn't even have someone like you know like my toe on fire without moving. Well, it's hard because
the reality of it is internal to the persons mind right. You can only expect so much of it to be made visible and how they operate. In the world right right, there's also more to live in a good life than being a great meditate. Her there clearly examples of great meditated is who because of cultural reasons or Reno, a lack of of real ethical scrupulosity. Just complete. we flame outright big big room? I wouldn't, I wouldn't think he was actually a great meditate her, but he is an example of believing the bog wallet. Yet nausea shows enclosure, another great documentary, while other countries, probably the boughs yeah, yeah yeah, so unloved, monarch, Sheila here, isn't it. Five year old, gale oriented built a city, and she did- and I couldn't do that as well as a bus and all the home
people change about river. Unfortunately, the the punchline here is not as clear, psychologically or ethically or spiritually. As we would want to debate. It would be great to be able to say that oh show, for instance, We just a fraud right. He just he grew the beard long enough it and no one could tell that he was a fraud, but he was in fact a fraud. I don't think that's true of Ojo. I don't either right so that their there many here's to the story, but but one layer is, he asked He was a very insightful person who had some measure of real practice experience in some real insight into the nature of mind, and there was a great curator of the insights of others, and he go back to the literature and talk about the Buddha and the polish odds and an him he was very eclectic and what he used source material, but he was also smart and he came up with his own analyses, and so he was an authority of a sort. But then, when you put these people in the role of being a girl.
surrounded by people who fought for good and bad reasons idolized. Right, so I got on one level that the good reason is beginning. You know absolutely nothing right in your being introduced to an a possibility of freeing yourself from unnecessary suffering and your gratitude towards. In this case, the guru for being led to those insights is not misplaced in the gratitude is totally appropriate. So it is possible to Get benefit even while being exploited by somebody really exploiting you it that's not an argument for it being a good thing to be exploited by a group general right like I, it would be better to have a real teacher who was not in it just a screw people over orders in sleep with his do
so where and when I myself ran an that's possible rights possible to two to meet someone who actually has cancelled thereon, rip anxious grandiose city, a narcissism and desires enough, so that there are not two arranged by the role that they ve been placed in which, as a teacher young, you can be effortlessly ethical, young, wife, confronted by other people's project. friends and all the rest, but clearly is not a role that is easy for most mortals to navigate and an unseen nearly impossible is really hard to find those example. It's like you're, a rock star where, in addition to all of the fame, related adulation that Iraq's targets, you're, also genuinely transforming people's really helping yeah, yeah and answered get a level a layer of gratitude on that that actual rose didn't get right? Yes, but I'm back your question I mean given what is unique about my past.
As a meditate her as somebody who learn these techniques in a western context and in a non religious contacts, though I do think you know tourism, some strands of it more than others is almost unique Lee wise on this point, which is how to practise meditation. What there is to be recognised by the nature of mine when you do it, the religion of Buddhism has zero interest. The end is worth criticising as those fountains at your house. I do like. I love you. I love you weren't you got knocked over you hold iconography miles are like Christian. Our work I like mosques, do I mean
sure Sharon's alarmed alter or go all the way, which is, is the ideas that the Roma are sure to may twenty first century conversation about human wellbeing and the nature of mind, I glanced my then diagram of those competencies. That's what's unique about my take on meditation, so I am explicit in my gratitude for end original reliance on the teachings of a specific strands of Buddhism like this ocean teachings within Tibetan Buddhism. Now there is, as is the teachers who really got through to me- were zilch anti chairs Tibet, lamas one in particular, took organ refugee, who taught a kind of non dual mindfulness practice a non dual mindful yeah. The crucial point is that says that there is something behind your eyes right,
looking out at the world yeah yeah, that feeling of being behind your face right. That is the illusion that you that mindfulness ultimately allows you to cut through and thereafter once you have done that every moment of mindfulness- is synonymous with being mindful of that. The fact that consciousness has no centre tune. So it's if you, if you're, seen something MAC, look at my hand. The dualistic default state is to feel like I'm over here, I as the conscious witnesses, somehow I'm somehow overhear absorbing across space at this object. That is my hand, but That's easy to get to monitor and right now I can get money. I feel like that's what's going on it and so that a starting point, but if you look at any object, nay, you take your hand and you try to turn attention upon itself. Have you look for what's looking, but if you look for your face, if you look for your head, you can-
recognize initial moment of trying to make that turn right in his sounds impossible. But if you look for the centre of experience, You can not find it in a way this conclusive and in the centre can just drop out and you recognize it. Just the single sphere of experience is good. There's, just world now. Are you able to extend that out? Will you go so far as is get to metaphysical it? This is kind of Michael Pollen, stuff or sell us Ivan. Were right, wrote the side of your brain that can allow you to feel connected to all the things I forget, your body or your consciousness that can illuminate how interwoven all of it is you can you go that far with it or does it break down for you at that point? What I just said I wanted to be honest about the experience component and then the theorizing or others that they, the conceptualizing the thoughts that are being added the experience Riah
and here I am ignore, stick as to what we can say about reality at large on the basis of these kinds of experiences year. I guess I'm asking do you believe in a collective consciousness, yet omitted to believe, and that would be to answer some of these questions that we don't have answers to wrap. Ok, but I do know that the only difference between us Campi at the level of consciousness, because consciousness is just the sheer fact that anything is being experienced at all we're talking about differences in the contents of consciousness. Others there's Dax like contents in known over there there, SAM, like contents, be known over here to change places would isn't even a coherent idea, because we're just I mean if I were aware of your contents, I would be you why do I do? I can fantasize and imagine a state again for me, it would have to be drug and do
Where are you and I would somehow magically kind of join consciousness or at least overlap in some significant way? You can definitely imagine that I'm at know whether that's possible by some boogie mechanism. I don't know I'm actually open minded and on that topic, but is something for which we had. We don't have much evidence of it being so, but despite the fact that many of us have had weird experiences, but it's definitely you could create technologically, and it is in fact true of an intact human brain as it is in the fact that Europe, hemispheres of your brain have not been divided as they are either when people get us
driver grandma seizures right as a sharing of contents across the that the hemispheres which, if we created an artificial commissar between our two brains, we could you could have easily imagine a sharing of of contents. Nea I tried the last time you were here to like. I tried, unsuccessfully tickets, you. Tell me why you're interested the things you are, or maybe to some level of success either. I don't remember that set. I obey afresh answered it. Will this Slightly different. You probably will see it is totally symmetrical and can grew us, but I from the outside will say There is a big side of SAM that way there the original SAM who went and studied philosophy. So that's one type of guy right and then there the SAM who then drop while did drugs right. some experiences that made you think there are more experiences to be had in then that lead you on a trip
India and in your discovery of meditation, I will not there's going to use your way and neuroscience which is a very empirical science historic great. These are all categories of kind of thought in then, yet we still exploring this other thing is Much as you would probably like to position it s something kind of empirical warm measurable. It is not that it is ultimately your. Sperience with meditation. You have a little bit of a paradoxical interests outside I know you won't believe me, I know you don't worry, I can tell you, I don't, first of all any internal experiences like this reserve. I, if I tell you in others. Actually I am an area in the visual field, you're, not getting any information at all sorts of your clothes one eye
I could move and object into the into the blinds onto the bonds by idiotic is gone and inheres. Why? You should believe that that that this is likely so even before you experience it until you by the anatomy the eye and say that you know that the optic nerve passes through the retina, as is designed backwards by an omniscient god, and so there this: is a massive blind spot rise, admirals buying them as aegis you there's no getting data. There is always just check this out. There's gotta be a way to see this directly and lo and behold there is, and we invite you ass, you can teach anyone to do this, but all that set ledger say you and Adam Grant Great great interview. Then locked M Grant Rowena he hears very smart person, you just can't find anything and that's was totally fine
and I am someone on the outside who respects both you and I can just go. I get I've had the experience at SAM's and not to the level that you ve had, but some some taste of that experience. Words me everything your same makes total sense and I believe it, and it is in the same way that I would which I am so often have to do, is explained. The cult I met Why it somehow was the one thing that got me to get sober and there's a lot of stuff in there that I just have to accept is cut of India sensible in ways again. I think we can do better than that now there may be ways in which it would be national to change a for the better, so naturally help morphine. Yeah, I don't no one's going to be harmed by these changes and then it'll just be to the benefit. I'm saying, there's that there's some optimal protocol for everyone, and maybe there's a five different variants, or maybe we could, in only two hundred years from now will be able scan your brain and give you a totally but spoke behavioral change programme. Yes,
it's perfect for you. As far as my debate with Adam about the wisdom or utility of meditation. That really is just day an experience. He hasn't had prices. Only. What any is right in saying that there are a lot of claims that aren't necessarily conclusively backed by study? Was it, but this is where I agree with him, where the many of the claims that are made about the benefits of meditation are either premature or they're, not even the point in the end. Amid so that you can see the red studies which show or report.
show that meditation boosts the immune system right up your or it'll stave off you know, cortical did to generation right, like age related thinning the cortex. Now that all may be true, none of it may be true. Not none of what really interesting about meditation is predicated on. Any of that being true relies has lessened. That's not the science, I'm putting any weight on right now, I'm interested in it, and I would be grateful to all the good class worse but the place to actually put your weight scientifically, where you know you're on firmer ground than not here is where insight in meditation are actually bringing Europe experience of your mind into closer register with what you have every reason to believe is true from the third person nerve physiological side right. So very
now get to the blind spot like we know the anatomy, the eye. We know that that actually predicted that the blind spot would be subjectively discoverable right, We know there is no self in the brain. We re all. There's no ego guided unchanging, changing me, just lurking there for Twenty five, eighty five, ninety five years, there's no place in the brain were all comes, there's no unitary anything yet a brain net. It's a process is a structure, but it is a structure that is substrate for a process of narrow physiology described at one level. Information points sensing described at another level, but there is no man right in the horse and then drugs in drugs have been an indispensable component for many of us. In that they, cancel beyond any possibility of doubt the uncertainty,
as to whether or not it is possible to have a fundamentally different experience of consciousness in the press get your occupying the exact same physical world and it's all completely different, completely fascinating and added. It should give everyone a question. You never should make your own question how certain the one we are experiencing right now is yet, and it is just and in fact true, that that farm ecology of drugs is such that the drugs causing your brain to do anything, your brain can't do right there, just their mimicking, Neuro, transmitters or change in that the level it would there yet other medical or in your brain, weirdly, Yazzi you're in the receptors or theirs those either mimicking ceretani. Nor is doing something to ongoing Leopold acre. Yet so, and I think for many The boy I think for me frankly, taken psychedelic in my twenties was the
only thing I would have been Adam Grant on this issue. I am sure, but for the fact that I dropped acid and recognise Oh my god, there is a radically different way of being in the present moment sharp than I was ever going to find out my own yeah yeah and ends to not have that reference point is a disadvantage, makes told his aunts yeah. I had similar thoughts while those in I was merely pointing out that whether you see this way or not, there are positions and there are areas you can speak out, as an expert on that would win in a court case, let's say and then there's other things that is Europe. This is story, you can choose to try it or not. When it went over this. Also again, you can do better than that. You can. For someone to recognise. That is their story tooth. Is it interest to you in your own life that you have
come onto the scene and and dumb accrued a large audience of people who, like listening to you, talk about one thing in one one line: and then there is another group of people who have followed you. Over some other thing, and I not to you there the exact same thing but but for to me their different things right. Ok, one is like but inflammatory run is amount, is providing not to hire you as a one is provocative. One is in. Planetary, incendiary. Want one creates argument. one is literally a path to perhaps contentment, and now you have these two spheres in your life. You have your your podcast, which I would say from the outside. You may disagree, but I would say, has evolved in and of itself where it is. It is increasingly less inflammatory in some ways
because it's just too fuckin exhausting the fight cousin had also means motorway, a big chunk of it. But then there's another part is that you get older. You you care about different things. Is the hills you, a diamond there's now they're, not hills. You want to die and I think that just part of being a human and evolving Howard Stern as a different show today than he had twenty four years ago, doesn't make him fraudulent. Neither end of that career exciting to you. Does it say like a lighter life, to spend your time in that direction. Yeah. Well. This is a good question. Honestly. There is a unifying way to view this, but part of it is
You suggest everything's a work in progress, and I've had begun to notice that certain battles are not worth fighting or or of minimum they're they're worth fighting more efficiently Ryan's Bay, as we spend less time on certain points, I'm not avoiding controversy and the podcast as much as I'm cutting my losses sooner, and so that is given a different character. The ass likely to certain people who I have in the past saw it. You know what role the dies and try to have a conversation with his person. You know on air, for a million people listen to, and now I'm curious in those choices. A little more intelligently, I think in the enemy is not that I don't have a massive regrets, but I do feel like there was a period of my podcast where the pot gas, which was, is basically a simple
of what social media was doing. To my brain I got so is Twitter was amplifying certain voices and giving me the sense that certain things really had to be responded to that there was consensus. That's when I always fall for a young. If I read twelve, won't you- and I talked about this in the marked passing- is like I've been on the inside of it were. I do assume that twelve hundred comments is consensus here. Two million people, which is the world's, are here, but I I'm just a human- and I say it always is just a bit of a failure of the interface, but it is the response to that, for me is to just spend less time and seen what's coming back at me. My feeling is is really important. I will notice at some other way at this point, but like us, because you didn't even get worse than twitter and, like I have a red it, a sub read it in a devoted to me. I think it is now too, but the original one got captured by
I, like an army of the woke such that it basically, the least SAM Harris Sub, read at the main one is filled with people who just despise me This is so. If I felt like I had to pay attention to that, much less respond to it. You know that would be a very different. There was one time where, in the last few months, where I was hearing enough rumours from other channels that this had gotten so out of hand. That really should say something to respond to what was happening in my separated into the and the main thing was like just being attack as a white supremacist GM. So so I actually devoted three podcast two of my own and one. I have been an appearance in someone else's podcast to try to put out the fire. I know I don't know whether that was a complete waste of time here worth doing, but, generally speaking, you're right curated, my own dot controversy, diet,
a more airily is so so for me, I don't know how you look at it, but for me I too a seem to be more more decisive, voiding stuff I used to get ensnared with, and I think my global fought on it or perspective is basically like it's almost Highschool, like I can bond with a group of people because I hate Michael Jackson or it can bond with people, because I love Prince I can we people out by either of those methods. Now, if I choose to weed people are by saying I love prince and other people have attracted, we can do something with that. Let's go see prince play, whereas if my of selected, my friends by I hate Michael Jackson, now what let's not by his see these there's almost something an intrinsically, not productive about it here, except on those points where I live in tromp ears like if you want to get rid of Trump next time around You have to spend a lot of time making the case for why that would be a good assuming that the people that you need to persuade-
actually listening, which are either not, but I do think there is a kind of global thought I'm coming towards, which is like I can say the same message by just letting you know what I love I need to broadcast and spend my energy amplifying the things I love is it Steven Pinker take on this? Is it this disguised? become this or do I need to spend my energy and time feuding somebody I basically don't agree with like what just what is technically a better I begin to enlighten lying on its either or for me, and I think I have to do both, but I am what I have now with the app the difference now is that what was so phantasmagoric leave strange about launching the app was for the first time in living memory. I got back, We all love one thing, but that wasn't even the most startling thing when I got back was
no misunderstanding as to what my intentions were yet my intent, I'm putting this out, because I have found this incredibly valuable. These are the most valley, well things I've ever learned here. Maybe you you'll find them valuable, yeah and all I got back was a pure, both just appreciation, which is great, but just no misunderstand right, will you ass such a week? I I forgot that anyone has a life like that were lit. We use it, you just put stuff out in the world and it makes people happy and they tell you yet right and civil for all the books ever written and all those in the park, as I've done. I had just habituated to the natural state of things, which is, however, good your intentions. However clear you try to make them. You know, however fairy you try to beat your opponents, your
A day experience will be to be vilified. Four things you don't actually believe any more when again, just in my personal life and experience has been one topic in my life, that's transcended all other things. I care about witches. If some dude wants to get sober cause he's on the verge of dying, I help that Percy Residence in quite often I don't agree with anything that person but I've done this. One thing that I have elevated, above all other things, which is help someone save their life from addiction in so I've been lucky in that I've. Had the experience with that is very fucking for working like when I have seen guys who now have a family and are unemployed and stuff, but my all our economy, perhaps all the other things I care about just for me. I Norman's get up there. narrative they're telling. But for me it is
usually rewarding feeling yeah. I recognise that it looks kind of incoherent or at least very different from the outside, but all of these things come together for me in a recognition of the truly absurd power of bad ideas. Like smells like as an end to this. This covers, like our own site, moment, Mama psychological suffering into our beliefs, about ourselves and the nature of mind, and in a word it what we are as people and in our work and of a misapprehension of all that, but then just bad ideas that scale to the level of culture they, this larger operating system they were all struggling to get free of the culture we build is so often non aligned with our deeper values that we could just it. We can figure out in five minutes in out. only thing you and I differ on his. I think if, if people had that road to self fulfilment
I think so many of the other problems that we spend a lot of time fighting over during the correct for wood, magically of I really do believe what I know. Your grew yell either. So it's his kind. Albania is put all my attention and energy into like each individual. I can help reach fulfilment and then the other stuff that was appealing than I was fighting against might just a road on its own here, and I can, I do I view all of the fights as an opportunity cost me basically at least eighty percent of what I have paid attention to in the last fifteen years, or so I view as much of it seemed necessary. The time certainly end in retrospect is. I can say that I regret it, but in the end a definite was an opportunity cost and that's what I'm paying attention
on the app is the real opportunity missed the real thing. I wanted to pay attention to another critical, her pass, I'm just I'm excited. Oh, you have these two channels that are a little different like I enjoyed selfishly, I like to listen year, Pike S and have you defeat someone? I have an opposite opinion of from that some thrill for me right, but then I've used Europe and I got came into with some baggage, which is I Don t em, and I think that works for me and my own. Oh, I need to learn. Sam's version of the immortal coming there, maybe with low more bag is someone else and I sitting there. My wife's closet, listen you're like a fact. I feel calm in content, and this is wonderful, wrote I probably I'll Sammy bigger. Thank you for this. The maybe, when he's dead someone. I don't agree with you, my summon up in that experience
can't say that I have closed the door to the controversy. Just as I know we I mean, I know the next twelve months is a bit politically speaking. of course my hand but I'll be right back. Kitchen turn that boiler up have a twitter, twitter, I've I've broken up a twitter to a degree that I think, I will admit, is still use it, but I really have re configured my brain with respect to that piece of shit, Romania. While I couldn't, I didn't aiming at any of the things I every time you here. I have a panic that I wish. I had you. First of all ages answer one question: some people will listen to this in longer. Oh, yet another luxury of rich people like the way people are critical of like eating organic. Oh yeah. I had a ton of money and I go to whole foods and I had time Babar Albinos realistic complaints. I certainly have more time to evaluate. I have the freedom I was saying this, a meeting gonna fight with my wife
downstairs and worked out. I was running for about an hour, but thirty mentioned the run. I was able to see. I wasn't stellar in that argument in and around the guy was really trying to see your point of view, but I had an hour to reflect on it. I came back upstairs. I apologize her house acting and then we went out of our day and I recognize what a fucking gift. I have an hour to run on a treadmill. A lot of you will get their way with their white. They go straight to that second job or whatever the thing is whatever fire there put out. So I do recognise UNAM super privileged in many ways. I have an hour to reflect something,
but TAT S. Just say why this this isn't an elite endeavour to to meditate or anything was a certain level even to be able to think about living. Fulfilling life may even to have a concept of happiness is a privilege. I the journey, that eminent. If your sea of your spending more time along with your ear, eight children searching a landfill outside of Calcutta or Bombay, he had just such a defined scrapped right you're, you don't have the time for any that stuff you you can have as fine grained a view that hierarchy as you want. But, yes, that is true deniable end. We should want to engineer a civilization which causes the floor for needless human suffering.
And drudgery to just keep rising zone in the worst lives of the twenty first century in the twenty second century, become unimaginably good. Rather that's gotta, be they the global endgame for us, it still doesn't negate the fact that certain things are true about the nature of the mind and you either have the time and interested discover these things or not. Re end. This true anywhere else in his science is a luxury. If you, if you'd, I view if you live in an affair, what state? No one's got. The free attention to do. Science doesn't mean that science isn't there to be done on the on the narrow financial point. One thing I have always been clear about and it's it is right there in the in the pricing on the app. If you can't afford a subscription to the waking up app that it should never be the reason why you don't use it. If you just send us an email at to support at waking up, dot com will give you a free year on the app and if your luck hasn't changed at the end of the year, to send another email and
Four zero judgment about them and ass, soon, ass, lovely realize now, and as true with all my I may, I wish that were true of everything I've ever produced make you can't do that with the physical book, but whether for all my digital stuff, that's always true, and a lot of people like, I think I think, is now a hundred. Fifty people said that email every day right so I mean that we have in the thousands and thousands of people doing that so zero judgment there. The thing I do have judgment on is just the expectation that all digital work should be free brought ye because, like this is just night,
Similarly you're gonna, get what you pay for. It has to make sense for people who spend their lives producing content. Will yours is really great just one. I just wanted to give a personal testimony there really like it, and there is like a historical aspect to it. Like you can learn about it, you can just go through the wood. Is it fifty the first? It will be the introductory courses fifty sessions if these session, and now there is actually a there's essentially a podcast channel within the abbot- is called conversations, but I am now just interviewing other teachers and scholars and scientists on related topics, but an supplication. Only one of those episodes is also appear in on my part cast, but for the most part, I'm assuming my palm cast audience doesn't want to hear about the specifics of meditation or me, no ethics or any other related silencer right, I'm without ever intending to start a second podcast. I have an effect of Lord. You started. Second, I guess we'll just repeat the exact same thing was indifferent package. Well, listen, SAM! I look
or to see new arrive and rolls Royce one day, and on that day I'm gonna follow you to organ or to Jackson, Hawaii. Only wherever you build your city, I would leave ninety three others behind that. I really of reach bog ones. That is, and I will be the first joyful day see now russian issue to value. I adore you. Sam errors were likewise great, be back and thank you, for next time. You know the listings gonna be on your shoulders in some capacity, in areas like oh great, this time you you'll too the leading you like now Joe And now my favorite part of the show the back checked with my soul me, a bad man. Non them back. Jack's, SAM Harris, Samuel, Iris drown, two or similar field trap. We are
More was as mass you're still in your out best Viking garb here. Do you think it's a good look for me? Oh no, my favorite loud. Actually, when I had the horns on, I like it. Ah, oh, but I dont think isn't the EU should adopt further like Gerda I needed a here, because I had a moment looking, the music should ice going techno by in style everywhere. I could tell you think it felt form what we are going to have fun life, so you do it. You know chain males. We were sure it might be. The new thing, my men never now thinking about bringing back my seventh gray hair cut, which is, you belong in bad shape and the same or less by gaunt up yet in bangs, oh wow, because a crew members- Guatemala in some of the girls here at work, are now super into him, because it is haircut- and I was looking as Erika Mouselike Like-
is it time? Is it time for them all to come back, and I was like that was my best haircut? That's when people liked me the mouse, I would say not through it, will you ve never seen me in real I've lost my allowed it ass. I when people like do them seventh grade, that's down the world like? Do the mouse my world, I didn't even know, I'm not I'm not gonna. Let Ok, ok! Well, until you now, could you look at it before you decide or you gotta decide now? Look. I guess I could look at it, but that will be too late. Let's get some photos, oh I know about it. You deal very q on a little girls here and I think even afford five year old might not be. I think it's gonna be that you just need a lot of attention do. I lose you at the spike, the banks or the long and back the law.
About the long about first thing I mediocre analyse a half hour and then second will be spike, because there was a tall one. It was illegal, five and tossed by while out and then bangs banks. I can be fine, ok, while Asma, I was gonna make the claim that my spike was about the length of the average Maltby as well. Which might have had something to do with its appeal, maybe there's something fail as well. I don't know I'm all citizens. This is, I don't think accurate. That's all a longer haircut reminds me of a greener yeah. I we could put a bet on it like we did last time. I don't know how we would really we could just pull people. We will have the same people to the mall to ask them. That's it how they do most resources. I think I participated in view of those studies. Could I spent so much time in malls every now and then there
be a random person that was doing some sort of study, more research, yes and then they would pay you like ten dollar all yet, and I would always do it so that I could then spend that ten dollar I would honour resigned on it for the money, but I did spend an enormous amount of time of the twelve oak small and nobody Michigan I mean, like you, know, while ours there on Sundays TAT same, but didn't deem no vi worthy of market research. I ass there was never any one there. Always you the more warlike hang my friends in halves, beef with another group, a guys that was amateur I was gonna, happen the up and then you go to burger, king, that song correcting sewage dinner. Oh yeah yeah the home of the rectangle language, but remember the arm song the Humpty dance. Now, though, it is the dance doing harm to the baby.
digital underground anyways at once. When he goes, I once got busy in a burger king bathroom, and I want a busy in a burger king bathroom with the twelve oak small yeah. I was so exciting. That is excited you don't like that store. I could see it on your face, the micro movements in your face. I was perceptive of I know how to read those idea. Just generally, nothing we should hook up directing angle sandwich urges its grocer. bragging knowing line everyone can do whatever they want. Yeah you just hooked up everywhere. Dried, dried, my heart and you did you succeeded. I wasn't some like. What's let's say this, I wouldn't have told you that we had there not been a song, Humpty dance were then he talked about it and I was just like. Oh, I see you there. You are you're. Well, that's cool! How was it tell me details, I guess,
You know it's not what you want to be. It's not the most possible environment for romance was arab, like p in the toilet. Alright, I'm sure Emmi was a bug in Bergen last act more sure was in a shambles now, rattling story. In fact, you know over the years I've learned to stop telling fight stories which do a really good job, because I think I've always loved you like five or six in theirs. Dozen Sweden tell me cannon. What do you mean? I don't know, I think is an unbecoming thing. I'm glad it's dollar that about use was not like it be a shot me. I just I've learned a reckoning when you build a story for someone whatever its nodded. It's an unattractive quality You mean I used to do it non yeah ad nauseam and then Obviously now I'm I'm learning that entailing a hook up story. This isn't people like that. Maybe the guys like it, you know by myself in a locker room, but the girls I like it. I think that's true
really know why it's not like it's offensive, nothing at all, it's just like, ok sure, but it all. On the other day in the living room, like you know what that was a lead balloon, and I gotta stop that. I think perfect goes like those weird and gross imposing yeah. I guess it is we who live off. You make it's weird and grows edges. Think it's like there's a little bit of good, for you were wrong to right because I think the Silly implied intention was that bragging but I was then yeah. No, I don't. I You're right, you know something. I look up story that sounds bragging, would more or less and is also like, not really something to brag about, because everyone can hook up. At any time, and so it kind of just feels like our. I knew But what, if there really funny, though, like that gal in New Mexico who change the policy, the hotel, like that, that ones were telling right, I mean I think you need to do now. I want, I would
would aim to not do things that people don't enjoy yeah like that about you end ok I'm rounding that corner you yeah real time progress right anyway. Okay, so burger king in a mall more market research. Ten dollars, I would have done, let me to say- and I would add them anything for ten hours of smoke, really that they would is ITALY jump off the balcony. I would have an absolutely clear and further listeners, begot interrupted I believe- and I always our back- you know Amber, tells hook up stories same Harris, listen to probably three hundred out of him talking and he's never told her hookups ordinarily, on brand for hand, it's a little offering doesn't seem like it would leave I would, however, say was likely to Ralph
I'm thinking about real love. Export is. Why are you not sacks right? He's he's fearless on all topics, but I disagree in how it would sound there so many towards that? I love that. I I try to incorporate into my that. Have a high they'll catch the idea tat, he has a bunch of key words that he This is in regular rotation. My love, I'm ok, we're talking about the movie! Click oh right, without him Sumer Andy, you were kind of giving a synopsis of what you thought it was but didn't know, cause you unseen area. Samara plays Michael new men and over worked architecture neglects as family when he acquires a magical universal remote from Morty. That enables him to fast forward through unpleasant or outright dull parts of his life. He soon Lawrence at those. Seemingly bad moments, Eddie it's over contained, valuable time with his family and important life. Lessons that. So it's pretty much what I thought it was tat it. Could you tell me about
fire fighter one frequency now, but he did with some chuckled after another announce your jacket from an old, was a promise of their own, hey, Google. What is I now pronounce you chuck and Larry about Chuck Levine, Adam Sandler and Larry Valentine Kevin, James or fire fighters and true blue buddies when Larry a widower learns. He cannot name is children as beneficiaries on his life insurance policy. He needs a big favor from chuck sign on his Larry's domestic partner. The pals unexpectedly become front page news and Musk the masquerade two extremes when in oversell his bureaucrat become suspicious of their true relationship. Ok, that's an interesting concept in that you would have a life insurance policy that required you were married or whatever that just to pass something on your kids would require you'd remarry, that's oh yeah, like values, and see genius, I would have them filter out ones that require me.
Stay where you my shit like that, doesn't seem fair, even no mind. Still, you money instead of a priority We are assuming much pro marriage mantling conspiracies happening. You now are more the worst offenders. I've been thinking about this a lot because you know there was an incident at the white elephant. Have you don't even know? If you know the stories who, at the White Elephant Party are beautiful Hansen, White Elephant party? I got a present that was a like we D board issue and then some part in some stuff. It was like a big package and then got stolen remain an and Eric friend Eric said, oh good, I'm I'm glad I got taken back, bad energy already they want to bring in your home. He didn't want me to bring an end to the home. You thought I had about energy and then he said, maybe I was gonna die. If I had it right so, six times more likely to die or something, and there was a which involve, you know, there's lots of stuff witchcraft. She was yet
saying that and I was like well, we shall probably tell Janni Ball who got it, that it has a bad energy raw land and he said oh yeah issue does she have kids, and I said now he's? Ok, that's fine that you go a whole thou know now we're not gonna hold out. While we are on our way, I could see where you were saying if that things going home to somebody's house running we agree on this, that you should try. spare the innocent. You now that the young the Young can submit he wasn't talking about. The Chiusi has less value. He exactly. He was saying if she died, it mattered less because there are never drive true as well I don't like that at all. Well, I mean in the lights crazy. This will improve if one person has a few people, pending on them for everything, you know it seems like it's coming at a greater cost, doesn't it,
or is it just like someone dies and then their catches? Curiously, I haven't seen them in a few days. Would then be a cap me in a cat forgets it even had an owner after four days, and then it gets into the cupboards and be non takes care of itself. You don't like it course. I don T aid because I'm a single person, so that's saying that I am less valuable as you or as him, and I don't think it's true worlds. I would say two things like if I was still signal in that came up, I would think I do. to be alive much as anyone else personally and then also. I would unable to say objectively leaders in me more damage if that person with kids dies than me, yeah. Well, there's gonna be pain from me for can just independence, the nature of dependence shore female sure. So I you know,
wonders and dies their life's round, but then, if this other person dies the meat Three lives aroun. Will there not ruin debts so sad, but I know many people who have lost parents and their leader all right. I've got no Haug over you know. They're, not there may live happy lives, had a sad horrible thing happened to them. I would never wish that on a kid, but it doesn't ruin their lives, the desert ruin all kids lives in aroun, some kids lives for sure tat. Other things ruin kid. Lives as well? Let it had only with all their hair at the true values. Here's what I'm saying you're a sniper and you have to kill someone on the street or all of humanity dies and one of the persons has two kids in one of the persons as zero kids. But when I annabel one of the persons is even one of the persons is me That's not the hypothetical, but that is the hype. That's exactly my point. Well, what
mostly though, if you have to kill someone street new of your choice between someone, no kids are somewhat kids, which one would you go? I don't know how can stick to your guns? we don't have any other information, we don't know if there are good or bad person. All we know is one of its members and knows everything else is new but they have the same moral integrity and they're both equally of service and not a cost, to civilization, the only difference they have as one has to kids and one doesn't, I think, is an easy choice. I mean it doesn't favour you in this case which socks nor would have favoured me up till six years ago, but I do think we would both make that choice. Maybe you don't like being thought of as less important than other people
you're not less important, but it's not really an evaluation of importance. It's an evaluation of wreckage and consequences at better. I think that's where the system breaks down. I think that's an emotional thing to say they think. Maybe if we had to pole people- and we really did some actual research on this- don't know that that's true, I mean a granite. We would have to control for all the other variables like sure if, Stalin had kids, I don't know you know you per hour. Hitler did not have children, but you know plugin, those people join and then it's easy, but if they have everything else is is the same. Then everything is all the same. That single person could be here. in tons of money to charity, everyone that dad could be a horrible person or raw
or whatever, and also your dad or mom and be a bad parent. You know being neglectful who knows like the idea that, just because you have children makes you more valuable or worthy of life. I don't like that. I don't think it's true, but the immediate reaction is to think that's true, but I don't. I think if you really start thinking about it, I don't know that. I don't know I won't ever say it to you. Why don't you think it's over it's also by its fine. He was it we'll know. There's plenty of people took his I'd, kill before it. You'll do, let's, just because I'm so if it's you on a street in a stranger on the street, the strangers to get some Devlin killing. Stranger must be clear. Yeah, I don't know- I'm in Eric's case. He wanted her to go home with it cuz he didn't know her, but he knows you and he did not want you to go home with it. So then he went to everyone
all the strangers. I would prefer that child the stranger took it home, yeah yeah, I understand, and I'm not saying it's like foreign to me, but I just don't sit well with your dad. Doesn't ok! So, oh he was talking about how some people are more susceptible or less susceptible to hypnosis, ah ha yadda scale and there's actually couple skills. There's a Harvard scale, Stanford scale, ok to different competing scale, and you guys can do you like Stamford right, We owe me we like bow the room here and we know nothing about either. We ve never intended play some only stood in Harvard I've, never remember Stamford to Stanford, but what I think about them is that standards more artistic. West, easy, the sure sure, but if I'm really being honest by, if I could go to either those without will pick harbour
they have the lampoon you here, you are, the only Portman went there yeah. I had my shirt, yeah, I think harbour okay, so basely those like a rating system and there's all these different things that they test foreign there's lots of different sections. It's pretty intensive, but some of the things that they test for our postural sway. I closure hand lowering polarization finger a arm rigidity hands moving together, for inhibition hallucination. I cattle FC posed hypnotic changes, chairs and amnesia, so I guess they test these people and they rank them on these levels and then come up with whether or not Europe susceptible. I can't imagine I told the story when he brought it up, but I didn't tell US
very well when I saw alive hypnotist in SALT Lake City, when I was eighteen, oh my god, was one of the most amusing things event. If anyone has an opportunity, go see alive, one itself on that. First of all, this guy had a great accident and he would say you view nobody's becoming still visit to. Before Is it too, before and after the two by foreign? How do they in their hypnosis state understanding into by four, but at any rate he and all these people haven't, is on the stage there is like eight people, any told the people. You are your favorite celebrity and so is going down the line. These I call microphone. I was like those or who are you and the guys like I'm, floods in eager? I, of course the guy wants me you're going down. There We were all you know who due to expect and then get it go, and I have been watching your away before he got to her because she was like moving around and her seed and like smiling, really reader Anson much have been pick no man who are you and she goes. I mean
bugging, favorites lumbered. It was many miles. I was like this person, what a person what a part as her favorite celebrity, is many miles you can there be a cuter thing? Ok now I have a question. Maybe she was foreign no end, wasn't too I am. She was, she was second glance the milk fund? Why white my american idea, wow yeah in telling you right now, but give your skeptical. You know the most sceptical person, I'm such a cynic. These people were fucking tat, no one would do in public what they did I mean they were doing up like. Maybe Jim carry could fall every ass yeah fuck it so right, it's so embarrassing, but they have no idea, saw Everett Self interest and in the physical feats almost impossible, because they do
make themselves stiff is a two before and then the he would put like balance amounted to chairs and shit. Like an plank, you can't even imagine doing north gray. I wonder if I would be susceptible all your not peer pressure thing. I think you'd about what you gonna. Let yourself tat may be have you. Our down, God knows what this person would do that also I hate audience participation more than anything, break number two: No, oh just over a golf cart? So fast, are you doing how many of the old partner sprint to your man jumped in the garden sped away during untroubled here on the golf car because you're going I came out of hills really really fast forgotten. Our Gillingham tone hook up story, find story right,
came on the hill really really fast, and I liked the back and I didn't want eighty everyone's out there get near their lunch. It was really a great trek without having rehearsed a camera, was so India in the fire marshal staring at me by eighty five years old. All boy- and I was the trick- is going Past- will know that I locked up the back Indeed a one eighty spun round and then part exactly where I wanted to know, got out like us going into. Why was gone into the food trail, everyone sheer people really into who is a big step out of nowhere, which is a fun surprise, but the fire marshal. Who again was hyades. There was none. Happy was unsafe. I recognize you and say you and I could look. I could see the look on his reason. I go I'm so sorry you're not again and again Won't doing. I just do not do that again telling us in general. You are. Oh emotional and spiritually and face wise convalesce yourself. Oh, we were told by Heaven.
oh wait and I was saying and other unsusceptible, because peer pressure, geology, do you have a long history of not being susceptible, and I dont like audience participation and right to your triggers baked So SAM said why that this was a really interesting part of the episode. Sam was talking but how we remember things are remembered Elvis verses our on flight present or experience, shows your aunt Shaw, South and anyway. I just find that all fascinating, also because he said that you know. There's a high recent see a fact in how we remain. things. So the way it ended is a huge element of our overall thought of. Memory as urologist so fast in Haiti, your memories so peculiar and how well it at its out negative stuff. Because somebody memories I have that are not like what most of my drug abuse stories to me, or no very funny yeah, but
the time they were not pleasure or funny at all that, but now, like yeah, I know Jimmy, but I was wondering when I think I set it out loud, but he wasn't sure if there is research on the amount of people who view things begged happily versus positively wish? I didn't really find, but I also found some other interesting stuff on drawing up there. Is this article and psychological science about memory and experience and says many studies suggest we are more likely to remembered negative experiences over positive experiences and according to Laura our assistance in a psychology professor at Stanford one point two Stamford zero to Harvard. In general, we tend to notice the negative more than the positive many psychologist
this has ever Lucian airy routes. That is, it is more important for people for survival to notice the line and the brush than it is to notice a beautiful far. This growing on the other side of the way, Karsten sin who is known for her research on aging, said one school of thought believes that our attention to negative events has adapted value said that there is a lot of information to be learned and difficult or dangerous situations, and that our brains can apply that knowledge when a similar situation presents itself in the future, Parson sins, research group is studying what she described as a phenomenon, paying attention to negative memories as more pronounced among younger people. She said winning what happens with age. Is that younger people, because they have these long and nebulous futures, really need to collect a lot of information, and so they remember many things that will possibly help them manage those future. She said the older people get the more, they are able to live in the present, and so focusing on positive information makes that present feel good. Simply put older. Folks are better at
The moment ended enjoying what's around them. Oh that's interesting world. I have felt like it. It would be hard for me to credit sobriety versus age, but definitely the older. I get the easier going. I am the air and the less. I have to engage in conflict and all these things. Sure. Good part of this is getting older and just getting tired. Now, I'm a brief Juno Norma, so it s young, and I have a lot in a dream. I doubt why not, but you're, not old enough. You have to rise by Thomas it. you don't really running? I will say I notice in New United Woloda conversations, where am I Oh, how you feel- and I definitely felt that way when I was thirty two and yet It is now say it doesn't matter so much like you- and I have had a few of those words like were equal intelligence. we're equal communicators and then just an age thing were sometimes it's
order when you're younger we'll hit it off. in that year also gathering data the whole time in your like out all those things that I say either did great ad nauseam proud myself or I came up short and was really mad at myself. How did they back the course of my life and just overtime. More more use have more data. You like a learning like. Oh it didn't matter. I know I was watching so there's a cheerleading documentary on network not last night about his college cheer team in Texas yeah. I saw there and I was interested, but then I thought it was scripted, but it's not now oh shit. I would love that yeah. I couldn't turn it off last night watching it all they used are cheering and you let it be nearer neurons are so heads ay. I could just relate to every single element of that. That's a great example. It's like the sticks. I think you could have done the same job. You could cared about the same amount, but the light
emotional, ups and downs of I'm. After being yourself stuff I dont think was probably necessary. I totally disagree with you. The states have to be that high if you're gonna commit yourself to that level, and I was thinking I was watching it, some of them skills and stuff that I got over time during cheerleading and so hard for me and I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it and so stressful and so much turmoil dying every day and I'm so proud of that time and eventually getting those thing Ah, which again, is your narrative sell because it could have been fun crying every day in the process, wasn't necessarily fun with it felt so good to have worked really hard in, but had to pay off
yeah. You know. This is interesting, though, that there is a famous ski or, I think his name's body Miller, yeah, that's a famous scare right, India. I saw a great sixty minutes segment on him and I believed him. He's like I am not going to so G for a gold medal. I am going to send you to have a perfect run. I really want to have a perfect and everyone else. It has all other mechanisms for trying to do but his to me just felt like all that's the aspiration aversion or it's like he does this. And he's looking for a feeling when he does it yeah, and I just think that's great air, and I just think that viewpoint it sees journeys. Yours you get older, but I dont think boating Miller is he still grind? I get still really hard for him to practice and whatever is doing its gruelling to get that perfect run so sure his aim isn't a metal, but it still something he doesn't have.
is aiming to have, and that requires a lot of work but growing a mindset. So someone who got hired to write and direct chips would have found that gruelling. I did not find a growing at all people going. How could you been acting in an directed directing it all those action scenes and doing the stunts Ababa. Objectively. That's a lot of work for someone to take on, but it wasn't in, way gruelling for me. Never once ray. I saw it. I can see we're body Miller, he's doing a ton of stop that is growing gonna. Like your mindset when you're working out some people were got me, hate it it's miserable and then other people work out. It's not and it's the same activity and be borne that dramatically different physiologically you know it's all: just a mental space sure
It is I mean I think, in at the lattices em, it's a little Deborah you're following your body herds. There is real pain that comes with some of them. That's that's here, so I had to get rid of surgery after chips, because I did a star in his helmet landed on my hand wrong- and I fucked up my rest, but no moment of that. Even when that happened. I was me and like nothing happened, let's go again. I won't do it again right in yeah. I don't know, but now, if we're on another thing, with a different context, where I was just a gun for hire and I'd only wire going to make me do it a third time or why you know what I'm saying No, my own experiences totally this mental state, it's not about following or getting hurt it's about how I feel about finding it. He heard anyway, that's That was a yeah, ok, well, sampling for coming back yeah come back again, come back every the third time. The charm love you. I love you