« Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Sanjay Gupta on COVID-19

Dr. Sanjay Gupta (American neurosurgeon and medical reporter) joins us for an informative episode on COVID-19. Sanjay takes time out of his incredible busy schedule to answer Dax and Monica’s questions about the pandemic. He hits many topics such as immunity, correct precautions, the danger of overwhelming our medical system, human ingenuity in times of crisis and balancing honesty and hope.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
My boy friends back in his name. Is Sancho good, hey now, hey now welcome armchair expert, our boyfriends here today they live in the most trusted face in voice in medicine on tv to help us feel we're getting the real info, and we were so so lucky to grab an hour of his time he's so busy right now is working twenty our days getting two or three hours of sleep and he should easily squeezed us and which is so flattering and helpful, or just so grateful he's the best he's on Skype is not here. Ok, yeah. Let's start by saying that we are self quarantined we're, courting robs garage outhouse leaned, He's got his own little studio. Now it is new House and were in here and it's wonderful, yes and he has better internet than we have at the attic. So while we continue to interview people which we're gonna do offer the people who have reached out
I worried that we will slow down in anyway. We are not going to slow down and back we're going to pick up the pace, we're probably going to offer some other distractions for you, some light, hearted distractions. So all becoming, but for now we're gonna get out around what we're all going through with the help of Sunday yeah, and he also has a daily podcast. It's called corona virus fact versus fiction and his on all the social and stuff, so you can follow him and keep up with what's goin on or turn on, any channel of any tv in Europe see his face, guys working so hard right. Now we're very grateful for all of his dedication to the so please enjoy. Our conversation was Sunday goops
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Zeb recruited outcomes lodged acts, zip magruder the smartest way to hire he's my wow, so good to see you guys you guys look good. Is that the same space? Now because moved this is our quarantine bunker Can you hear a little fancy? I can hear you react. You can hear me so good? This is our first Skype Interview, son J. So thank you for doing that. Yeah. We know you ve been working a hundred hours a day. Every time we turn on CNN there, you are I think the busiest I've been in my life yeah and are you in? guided by that or is it fatiguing
energized buy up in just being honest, I'm having a hard time turning it off. You know, like I'm a big. I think we talk about this last, I'm a big one fight self Guy measure, my sleep and stuff. I have gotten maybe three to four hours: sleep at night fur we're gonna six weeks now and then when I go to bed, I can't sleep yeah and I'm thinking. I said this thing and I think I could have described that better explain something, but I want to make sure it hit the mark like we keep talking about numbers and everyone's caught up in certain things and and there's a bigger picture here with this, and it just feels very important. I mean it is important. It feels like it matches the significance of this, and I would
pills to me. So it's intense, I mean you are, and I don't think I'm overstating this sincerely. Just personally, when I hear you say something, I go. Oh that's the facts. You know Insode to have that on your shoulders and it into want to get it right so much knowing that people trust you the responsible. have to imagine it's quite stressful and also probably invigorating right the absolute right I mean it is, you feel, like you want to rise to that yeah sure an obligation may not be the exact rightward, because at all maybe denote something negative. I dont mean in a negative way. At all I mean it's a good obligation. I think that the challenge is well is that there is a lot that I don't know right. I mean that nobody knows, and I've said this so many times I mean look with all humility, I'd love to be able to tell you that, based on ten years worth the data based on twenty years, whatever we're talking, not even that many weeks that we ve been into this, I have to imagine to its changing so
rapidly, that you might say something on a Monday that then Thursday, there is somehow asking you to walk back or something or clarify. That's right. I mean even our discussion right now. If I give you some facts, I mean look even by this evening or tomorrow it could be different. So I have to council provide the context that is well and acknowledge that is rapidly changing and then obviously to your also moving through the world, a ton right cause you're doing interviews in Europe in a public place quite often, so what kind of fear level do you have? Personally, where we ve taken a lot of precautions? Now I think we are trying to really proud. it's. What we preach and do that? No really, I think, an honest way. So I know what I'm doing. television. Now, I'm in a studio by myself. The cameras are handled remotely Emily. Little things like. Typically, you would go to the make up have them put powder on you. I don't do that. I just take a little path and puts on
to take away the shine. You know just trying to be really really mindful of unnecessarily putting people too close to each other yeah. It's hard. I mean you find yourself a slowing down right, yeah play slow down. What am I about to touch, or do I need to text that? Who am I about to be close to? Do? I need to be that close to the person, in a weird way. It does make you more mindful of things, and that can be helpful. You now, especially when you're running a fast yet, and I wondered too because in some sense you are a performer in addition to being a doctor, and what not- and I was thinking this a lot when I was watching some of the late night talk shows that without audiences. How much the dynamic involves other people in that that that is the context that you're used to that you feel comfortable in that white noise. That exists is weirdly comforting. I wonder when you entered these voids now. Does it mess at all with your your sense of confidence? No, it was really interesting because I did that Stephen Colbert late Show and it was his first
go without an audience and we talked at a time, and I can tell that this felt very strange to him. You know, and he he was trying to find energy from different places and talking to US producers, a sort of building up in between segments in the commercial breaks. For me, interesting tax, because I you know as a news reporter more, not you in front of audiences. You know you usually you're just sitting there looking at a camera, that's true to make some sort of connection with the lens and it's weird, because you don't get feedback good or bad. So if you you think. You said something funny I mean there's nobody, the laxity of no idea that and landed with a bit odd or were you know, was hilarious. Like last night, we did this town hall discussion and we had previously been in the same city, Anderson Cooper and I last night we data from different cities in
we are both sort of isolated in those places just talking through earpieces, and he knows challenging but very necessary here, some of the conversations beforehand is this going to seem to stranger? You guys can end up talking over each other, and I remember saying at one point lucky I mean people understand what coming here. This is not how we normally do things, but this is how we have to do things right now. That's not can be forever, but it's really necessary right now and you have people seem to fundamentally get that at least the people, work with. Why will say, I'm always reticent of fine silver linings in things, beer juggling two things, and I think you more than anyone. We want people to take this tremendously seriously so that they in fact act very safely and do everything that can be done. So you might be motivated to do that and then, at the same time there these lovely things right. I was saying to my daughters, who obviously want born during nine eleven. I said you know when I take my wife
can day and I pass other people and we're all stain six feet apart. There is this beautiful humor. Kennedy that reminds me of nine eleven going to the store on the first few days following nine eleven, where we are starting to look at each other in go over. we're all humans were all kind of and we're all in this together, and that you know, is one of the kind of beautiful things that happens in these trying times now I mean in other gives me goosebumps. You know it's tough, I think Dax you and I grew up in a similar place in Michigan, at least for a while and When I think about our childhood, I M old or new are, but I mean some of their time frame and it was a great childhood yeah. It was just great. It was posts, Korea pose Vietnam. The economy was doing when it was doing. My parents were employed, it fell religion. I have three daughters, as you know, fourteen thirteen and eleven now and I think that they have been born. We ve been a tool,
now had a couple of major recessions. I mean my middle daughter, sky who's, the sweetest girl. She was born sweet air and she would always tell us when she was younger, that this is what I'm gonna. Do. I'm gonna be an architect, I'm going to get married this age and would have this many kids, here's what then Aims are gonna, be an injustice, funny dinnertime conversation and I loved it. Then this some time ago I checked in with her again even before others corona virus after dinner when I said so sky how the plans going you know if we have for your life, and she said none of that happening as it were, and what will happen when I've been watching these climate change reports and in the world. This poster- and I understand two thousand thirty- is somehow which he took away which he had read. First, I you know. Obviously we had a conversation with their about that, but I thought is such a different life for our kids verses us yeah. Well, I have.
the fear watching my little ones, whose word teaching them to not touch stuff and then sanitizing. I and I have had the fear like. Are we unleashing our generation of GIS, germ of folks, like we ve, never seen as I will work, you know, sewing right now. Yeah, I think the same thing I mean my kids older than yours, and I think that they can get it- that this is important for now, and they should always be clean and hygienic. But what we're going to right now is not forever. It is a moment that they're going to reflect on what that the germ of phobia, but then the climate change Two wars Yachty the economy up and down. We never had to think about that. Well, but- J our remind you of the tv movie that was on when we were younger called the day after so we the threat of nuclear annihilation,
do you remember my mom. That being the only thing my mom did want me to consume. She was very liberal about nudity and violence which use like this is a concept that a young person is to be thinking about nuclear proliferation and annihilation. So we got through that in your right and it's a good point as well, because for the forgotten that it may be. That means that for all the stuff that our kids are gone through, though, forget the bad stuff and focus on the good memories and stuff like that, because that's what they should do in that certainly what Rebecca I try to convey to them, but that's good point. I just thought of it as a good childhood yeah the Ark about existential threat, right, ok, so knowing what you're going through in being very sympathetic to all the things you just said, I'm gonna repeat a lot of the things that other people want and, most importantly for me personally, I have a arm chair theory that I've been floating by Monica its finding no purchase howsoever, so excited you're here to debunk fast, yes,
and again I do want a preface to sounds very familiar. I want to preface this by saying anything I say I am not making an argument at all for not taking the serious. I am saying that you should absolutely be social distancing. You should be disinfecting. You should be doing everything humanly possible to prevent over running our medical system, so I'm not seen to be loose. This at all now, young, merely everyone and allay and December through then, to January everyone. I knew everyone sitting in this room had an illness that included fevers. This call that just would not go away and fatigue. egg- and we all had it for ever and it was never named- am I thought was: is it possible that this covert nineteen did not originate in? Will Hon
in that it has already been of around in that we simply weren't looking for it, and once we were able to detect it than we started testing for and now it seems like its new, but that maybe it's been around for a while do we know originated in Rwanda. Is there anyway to do epidemiologists? Can they trace the origin of a virus? At some point, will that be known? Well, they can trace to a certain extent, but even given that they think you're scenario could still be correct. I'll just give you a little background which fascinating- is that this new novel corona virus was actually discovered in bats some time ago. There's these virus hunters who basically there looking animals and they're trying to figure out our these animals carrying pathogens that could possibly make a jump to human beings? That's their surveillance thing and I'll find these bats in the basically sacrificed the bat and find out. Ass the genes and then look and say well that one look suspicious that one looks like it can make a jump to humans and though classify it in this particular virus was class,
five. Some time ago, but how long ago, in some years ago or months ago, now was a few years ago, I think it was within the last decade and they made note of it and it was similar for two sars, which was back in two thousand and three in some other mares, which was more recent, but they just made a note of it and then at some point the first person that was diagnosed came in a sort of some of which you are describing Dax. They checked for food who they check for known viruses like rhino virus, nothing sort of collect, and then they, isolated this other virus. At that point, in this first patient that we again, we don't know that that was the first patient, both the first patient, in whom this virus was isolated, and at that point, when they said okay, we ve never seen this virus before in humans. That's an alert that goes out to everyone in the in the medical and public health world. In it's always a red, wagon novel virus detected in inhuman, so it could have been already circulating. People heads
symptoms, they weren't bad enough to go to the doktor, the hospital never got tested, but they had been carrying it. What was interesting about this guy was that everyone but this animal market, if you remember and who has being the source of this, so turns out the first patient diagnosed Fifthly, had never had any contact with that animal market, so it's a good chance. It was already said: in the community- and he had already acquired it so we don't really know we may know from where it came animals. Almost Oliver of our pathogens come from animals, their zoonotic diseases, but we, I know for sure how long it had been out there. It could have been out there a lot longer. Am I
is that it was in fact, if you look at a lot of flu cases in this country now, and maybe even some of the flu debts in if you go back and look at their their actual, what the actual virus was a mandate that they were corona virus, even even going back some time. That's great! That leads to another question my, which is: is there a way to test people have already died? I guess in haven't Ben Autopsy Anderson Thea, because your ears, my theory, so before we were really aware of it? I got to assume that the many people that died in January. In the: U S of saying no mon, you were what that would have looked like an ammonia. If there were an old person in a convalescent home and me they had respiratory issues and they died. I can imagine that they would chalk that Pneumonia, it's not like they're, going to launch an investigation right investigation not going to send a sample to the CDC, because an old person did what a high percentage of all people do, which is die of respiratory illnesses. They wouldn't even know to be curious. You're! Actually, right I mean you know, people do
respiratory diseases. All the time there's not value in spending the time to do testing you can do some testing when the virus then somebody, the person, is considered the host. If the host dies the virus dies as well. Not nor cases like Ebola was different. For example, Ebola could survive after the host died, which is why there is such a concern about funerals for exam yah, but with this and most flew viruses in the corona virus, you need the host what you can check, if you really wanted to investigate this is to see if the body mounted a response to this particular virus and anti body response. and then go back and see, did the antibodies that the person made in their body fit with this novel corona virus, and if they did but be your answer, but we haven't been doing that at all. We haven't gotten to that point. We can
barely test for the virus itself, which has been it's been really hard to develop a plan or strategy, because we just don't know how widespread this is. Is my fear about saying? Well, I already had it because I don't want a bunch of people saying I guess I was sick and January, so I probably had it. I had a coffin, so I'm fine. Now I have some sort of immunity to it right we'll. Do you hear my precursor before I said no matter what everyone should do every single high? Now I did hear that, but I think not everyone is tat. that again do we know we don't know. This is one of those things were. You know the humility has to come in and I spent a lot of time with doktor found she who, in his amazing everyone knows this guy's name now. I think I am a seventy nine, by the way, if you knew that wow that guy he should be amended president, he is seventy nine years old, by the way, if you knew that wow, that guy he should be amended for president. He is a sharp as it gets. I mean, I'm believe what he's
is a marathon or seventy nine years old. I just was at a press conference with him and the President and he's on the fly fact checking things and you know I think he's got maybe the hardest job in America right now when it comes to that, but I asked this question Monica and what he basically said is that you promise They do have immunity once you ve, been exposed to this virus and recover your body does build up these antibodies. It's like getting a vaccine The vaccine does the vaccines giving all but of the virus and then teaches your body had a fight that virus ever sees it again same thing happens when you get infected
thing we don't know is how long does that immunity? Last right, that's the big question mark. So he's pretty confident that you, you do have some immunity and that's the thing I mean. That, ultimately, is how these things burn out. Is that enough people sorted get immunize to it? That's called the herd, the herd immunity starts to take place and you get enough people who were in the herd and the virus has a hard times out of ten wading through a population, then so that's what you want ultimately, but again because of new testing. We have no idea where we are on that stay to arm chair there. We are so ordered by square space things you can do with square space. Well, you can create a beautiful website to turn your cool.
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and knowledgeable wonderland laws in question. You have underlined that was the most that formed us. I'm sure it's good to see you guys and talk to you like this, because it feels very familiar in nicely nostalgic. Yes, I totally agree. I have the biggest forms, one of my heart for you again. I think, as I got to talk to you before when I You want tv. Not only do I trust you, I go. Oh that's my friend that yeah, oh and on that topic, I will say my wife who's been just doing a perfect job at protecting our family. I wasn't even allowed to come home until this morning. I just was reunited after a six days in an apartment by myself. Your quarantining yourself,
I had been traveling. I was working in Colorado, shooting something then working in Austin shooting and then they finally pulled the plug, and then I drove back so I didn't have to fly, and then she wanted me to hang low for a week to make sure that I didn't have any symptoms which I don't have so I just this morning got to hug my girls before coming here, which was heavenly yeah, so she's been doing a great job and she's a warrior and she's helping disseminate, really useful, helpful information to people, but yesterday she gonna hit the skids and she was crying and one of the things she was saying was. I just feel so bad for all these doc pursuer putting themselves at the front line of this, and I said in an iron ovule echo this I said honey. This is it for doctors, they went in the medicine to save people, and this is an opportunity to save a lot of people and do their job like Navy Seal team.
six. This is the time. Is that in my right about that, I think so. The people are really rising to the occasion for sure you do want to have the maximum impact, and when you re health care provider of any sort of doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists are perhaps some of them valuable people in their healthcare profession right now, because they are the ones who actually know how to operate. Breathing machines and keep people alive. I mean this is their Superbowl in a way, and the real Doing an amazing job. I think the challenge- and maybe this is christians- point- is that in so many places and this is not made up, but in so many places Don't have enough of the personal protective equipment as somebody said today, I dont member who was made. Maybe the vice president's its Camelot going to war without having your basic shields and protection for vulnerable and in this case
honourable again something that's invisible, you can't duck, you can't hide. You don't know where it is exactly, and you have to do your job take care of these patients. So I really feel for them and then they gotta go home MIKE. You are talking about and dear hug your kid. I dont think the person he cared for today has covered, but may, they do, and maybe now I have it and lasting I want to do- is give it my new born baby. I talk to your doctor yesterday, whose Kalis, similar to what you are saying but he's living in his garage, he's an ear, Doc he's living in his grudges. Get three kids one of those four weeks old and I said I said: how long does this go on in his as I I don't know. I have no end date for that is gonna be my life for a while. He wanted to talk to his wife. She was an answer: they walked out of the ground through rocks at the window to her to respond man that is their life right now. So I see it both ways. I love
The military parallel has arisen, really interesting figure in the New York Times today about at the height of world war. Two, the Ford Motor Company was making be fifty two bombers, one every the eight minutes, anything arable land. We can unleash the power of our industry to build ventilators. That's the part that shameful, I think in in your right. When we sending soldiers without protective gear. It was shameful and it was now headlines as it should be dispute or put in your life on the line? And we can't given bolt reverse its unacceptable in likewise, we are relying on this tiny sliver of our population to say. All three hundred million of us we're going to give them the tools. Are you You mean we're not gonna turn some factories over. mobilise some things to make the vandalized and do these things that that's. That part is shameful. I think I think you'll be please to Know- and this is still unfolding, but just today, just before I'm talking to you, I heard from at the White House in general
voters instantly enough, maybe starting to retro get some of their manufacturing capabilities to make venom. all right. So we are seeing stuff, as you point out, that we haven't, seen really since world war to complete re tooling, of our manufacturing capabilities towards this different kind of war. This medical war we'll see if it happens, but the sounds like people are really trying to rise to that challenge. Again- and that's I mean I think, it's really necessary or again and just to take the worst case scenario, models that have been wrong where their saint two point: two million people. We haven't lost two point: two million people in a war since the forties, so the severity of the worst case scenario should be seen as all the wars we fought since world war combined yeah, it's a little mind numbing. When you look at some of these models and I've been really careful. I think when we present this sort of information to the people watching television- I dont know
the answer to this. I think in some ways my medical training has come out to be really important. As a journalist with this story, I think doctors, nurses, whoever are always sort of sitting at this inflection point, Queen hope and honesty, yeah there always sort of sitting there and what I ve learned- and maybe we talked about this before, because I think this is so important, but I do believe hope, just as a thing has intrinsic value for what I agree. I agree and I dont think it should be labelled as the opposite of honesty, although it often is right, people who are for our Siena's, I'm using a shoe what, then are you know whatever it may be, and yet honesty has to lead the way right yeah. You can never sacrifice honesty in pursuit of hope. I have enough that
expense, but yeah does what the idea can you do both you know young juggle, both at the same time, I think for your heart, near emotions in your life. You need to juggle because again Nicholas Chrysophora, this amazing peace to today in the New York Times. It was best case worst case narrow in the worst was a number I just said, which is terrifying, and then it is also a best case. Area where this flattens out an eight weeks and we make it over the hump not overloading the medical system and the virus mutates and kills it self and hang out a means treatment, so there appeared Yeah we gotta live somewhere between those right yeah totally. I think it is hard to taken the x factor in this case american ingenuity? Did we ever know what we're really capable of until our backs up against the wall? Yeah? So we're just modeling this based on existing sort of thoughts and ideas, but this sort of issues your imagination. I think at all sorts of different ways. I mean you, you knew because you're well read person that for
Motor company did that during World war, two with the planes, but I think today people heard about General motors, maybe retooling and retrofitting their manufacturing do ventilators manufacturing, ventilators wow, that's fantastic. I would never have thought that you know how to how does Even work or were people who are now creating this personal protective equipment in all sorts of different ways, because they're trying to really pitch in and help these healthcare providers, so I have a lot of faith in american ingenuity. Your world were too, we invented molecular vision. We also invented Vulcan, Z. fingers we couldn't access rubber trees. I mean we invented fake rubber, because we had two. We invented a new killer reaction as we had to so rare some mental hurdle where a military threat seems very easy to mobilise around and to sacrifice around in to bring all the resources to bear on yet medical stuff. In there's this notion, I could escape it. No one thinks it can escape a nuclear test.
The real enemy, verses and alluded, evangelize immense thing: that's a bummer, it's a bummer that it yeah there's no face to put on Corona. use mine and lays down that proper, an earth. Why? I learned something just now again, as I always do talking to you is I mean you're, just it's amazing. So thank you for that. I knew about nuclear fission. I did not know about the organization, but not the other thing in under. Maybe This is what kind of got me a little bit choked up early when you come up there. Is this notion, even if it's a faceless threat, that it is a universal threat, is a common enemy. You know
the guy we should say like what is the one thing they would bring the world together and I always thought it would be like an attack from another planet right when the world comes together right because now we're all in this together and we gotta fight these people were attacking us from another planet well and want to exaggerated by think this sort of fits into that category, even more so than climate change anyway, because climate change could so politicized. This is nobody's fault. This is a pathogen that certain navigating the globe. does not respect borders or boundaries. It does not discriminate against the younger old men or women sure is around the world are all at risk from this we all have a certain obligation or duty to try and do our part to stop it so
theres many things that bring the world together like this potentially you're. So right, if you told me two months ago that there would be an issue that would transcend China, ITALY, in the U S in a way that would would make us all brothers and sisters in the exact same fight, it would have been hard to imagine what that could have been right. Yeah, I mean a little strand of of RNA. Dear little tat strand a mean microscope, a thing like that, can fundamentally change the world, but possibly being the world together in a stronger way. I dont get to pollyanna about this because I think maybe it's too early and people are really you know. Gonna get in other have to deal with this for a while, but I think you're right. I think it is really can do something. That's her
can be good, ultimately, for the world all again, there's another paradigm that this mirrors to me, which is people, have a very hard time, accepting the notion of being compassionate and executing justice in our legal system. There seems people have a hard time juggling both or think that both can't be juggled at the same time- and I think this mirrors that in a way which is we can do all the right things and take all the right steps and we don't have to die from fear, we don't need that is the motivator. We can be compassionate impatient and understanding and loving and all these things and do all the right things you know they're not yet not mine during yes, a hundred percent, so when the narrative of this virus is presented to a lot of people even right now and where we were sort of MID March, you no end of March timeframe is sort of like an elderly. People are at risk everyone else who can be fine right, that's what people
earth and I think, a for a lot of young people. There are like myself, you know, I'm fine have no no problem, and then you started to learn that look. You could still be a carrier of this virus and even if you were ok, aired and get that sick, you could potentially make someone else sick and it was really interesting to sort of train observe people's behaviour. This idea that look, even if I didn't take good care of this for myself. I would take good care of this for the people around me, like I'm a more extrinsically motivated than intrinsically motivated when it comes to something like that. I think that's true and it seems anti evolutionary right. I mean if you ve, really was survival of the fittest. We wouldn't care really Norway, where there's almost nobody their family resources for us who survive after but for some reason, Maybe we humans evolve, that way to actually want to care for each other, because maybe at some point our evolutionary tree realised that we needed to be stronger together. Then then,
the visuals. You know we will definitely the obligations that cooperative outpaced, all the ones, that you know. That's not true right that it's only old people and people with immune disorders, like I think, a lot of people like well, I'm doing it for other people, but also it could affect your you and we are starting to learn that now you know I mean. The point I made earlier was at the point where we thought young people just be carriers. I was heartened that people did start to change their behavior, but perhaps they write Monica I'm, what were finding now, there's two things that are really jumped out at me. As I mean I, I spent all my time. I'm reading studies and talking to people and all that two things jumped out of me when you look at the China Data. Now they have the biggest data sets. That's why everyone always refers to those those studies. They found the people who were recovered right so that they survived they were listed in the recovered category, was sort of binary. Did you die or did you live in and recover? That was
but we started to dig deeper into the recovered category. You found that even younger people still had significant lung function. Loss of twenty to thirty percent of their one function was lost even after they recovered, so they. They were still able to conduct their lives, but maybe they would get winded going up a flight of stairs where, before that day, it would never have any problem with that. It would manifest in all sorts of different ways, but then you're also starting to see, in other places around the world, like France, that I think close to half the people who are currently in a critical condition in icy use are under the age of sixty many of them in their forties. So it does seem to affect young, people more than we thought it could be that China, with such a homogenous population, that it wasn't really reflective of other places with with diversity in their population. We really Oh, no, as you guys, are brought up what the impact has been in the United States.
may have already had more impact than we realized, but it's going to be interesting to see how that data sort of changes. You know we really do have to be humble here, because we don't know exactly how many people it affects or what the age groups are today. They said that in ITALY, the people who died- were twice ass, likely to be men, verses women. Now you know we don't know why. That is just be that it's really early date in it won't play out as you get larger numbers, but that was a there was a sort of you know startling thing like. Why would that be? Why would it affects certain populations differently than others in China that was explained as men? I guess now get three times. The right idea is that is consistent with that could be in ITALY as well. It could be smoking here in the United States. But more likely to be a man if they die but closer like fifty two and forty eight percent. So maybe that reflects the smoking. We don't know. We just don't know for sure. We also
oh, that young kids adolescence, while they can get critically ill, it's a lot less likely than adults, but not negligible adults. Twenty percent of get serious. They are critically ill with kids, it's closer to six percent, that's a lot less, but insignificant. Interestingly, with babies in Zeno zero to one year old. It was around eleven percent of the of the those young children who are getting this infection became seriously Critically. You will know that out of China, you know we didn't see that It was mostly kids. Are fine, don't really worry about the kids continuing to learn more, and these are important data points to keep looking at stay to arm chair. If you dare we are supported by, joy, bird furniture makers of that sexy gorgeous chair. We seem intermeddle sitting in my chair,
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But using kodaks twenty five or you are supported by Spotify Kevin Bacon. What a cool dude if ever met a mannequin. I want tail. I've met him and he is lovely and presented with he and his brothers somewhere kind of country. Music orders are fantastic. I noticed that means I'm lucky enough to be Cyril degrees, away from Kevin. Ok, Kevin Bacon has a new podcast out. It's a fictional comedy podcast from Spotify an funny or die called the last degree, Kevin Bacon. The premise of the show is that thirty, six years ago, a guy named Randy, Bedloe, narrowly lost starring role and footloose to Kevin Bacon and has been obsessed with him ever since so Randy has finally hit is breaking point in vows to go to allay killers, enemy and replace him in the universe. But things don't go quite as planned, because what exactly do you do when you're mortal enemy just wants to be his best friend last degree of Kevin Bacon, Stars Kevin Bacon care? Sedgwick is also
met walls from beat plays Rainy, Bedloe le more more stars in the show, was well and features Rob Reiner Emily Day, Chanel, Ria Perlman, Natalie, miraculous, Michaela, Wilkins and Terry grows. This is going to be hilarious. The last degree of Kevin Bacon is Spotify original podcast in you can listen to it for free only on Spotify What other? I know you have for you to forward about food workers, all gonna get into some more practical, and then I have one again, one last really provocative question, as he always does now. I have just a selfish want: well, not selfish, I guess, but in a way we also want to keep the economy up as much as we possibly can. I wanna be ordering food, and I know every one thing you can do take out and delivery, but there's a part of me: that's like: can you do take out and delivery coz its passing from hand to hand? Can it go on your food,
and then you eat it like all of us, yeah. Well I'll, tell you personal, where we are as a family ordering take out food a fair amount. Ok, I mean I was good enough for Sunday, it's good enough for a sham yeah. I mean I you know and when we went through the decision matrix on this sort of figured it out for ourselves in and here's what made and to me was first of all by was really busy. I mean all the kids are at home, right on school and so just pragmatically speaking in our work and all the times, if just from life decisions, I'm trying to take pressure off of her and you know- or Echo is helpful in that regard, but what we decided to do was everything is done on your actually pay for it through that and personally, leave it at the front porch or wherever. So you know you do keep still the physical distance from anybody we'll pick it up over there and usually leave the outer bags. Things that are most recently touch on the porch rain, bring the containers into the house and the IMF
because the counter, you know a very careful about wiping the counters down, and then I was U washing our hands after we ve touched all these things. You keep in mind. You touch something like that surface that maybe contaminate. And then you touch your eyes or knows your mouth. That's the concern here. You wash your hands right after you touch those services. You gonna obviate that concern right. It's not transmitted in the food. Ok, that's out of food borne virus there are food borne viruses and they give you in a sort of more the g I stuff, but this is a respiratory virus. So I mean you know if the good play such orders from the titanic. Otherwise your food should be fine. Just follow some basic precautions and you know what we're doing it as well. I think a lot of people are doing it in part to make things easier for us and in part the same then you are Monica. We want to continue to support the local restaurants and and the people, in our neighbourhood, sometimes or order food for other. people in our neighbourhood, my wife, when our gross
shopping the other day. We do have a lady who's older that lives down the street called her up. Get you a few things from the grocery store, so she doesn't have to go really appreciated it. So you know those kinds of things, but again just careful in terms of knowing how the virus is transmitted and trying to reduce those potential. Exposures was our biggest failure. This the fact that we didn't have tests and that we weren't quick to go yet, let's get the Texas was that probably our biggest initial failure yeah. I think I was the biggest initial failure. It s a really important, because then you can have eyes on this. As the CDC says they like these hunting met. whereas we need eyes on this day. It was interesting, but I'll tell you what, though, what does concern me a little bit, though, is that that has become the metric of success now testing right, and I think it's a little bit missing the point because we also knew when you look at those models again federal government models that they have access.
that we knew we were gonna need a certain number of hospital bets that we're gonna need a certain number of icy. You beds a certain number of breathing machines. We knew this and when they bought time for us in China I instituting the largest quarantine in human history, I think was the largest and recorded human history, and even you know what the president did bringing that plane back for more than a hundred ninety five passengers and crew. containing them here in the United States. That was a significant move near. It did slow things down what he did and even in this country we hadn't had quarantine since smallpox sixty years ago. So there were really really important strategic things that were done by the chinese government and also by us to buy us time. Wasn't saying: hey, we stop this
Never was we knew we couldn't stop it, but the buying of time should have allowed us over six weeks, two months, whatever it was to make sure we could have the capacity to handle the surge of patients that everyone knows is going to becoming. That's also, for me, I think, as a doctor probably even a bigger failure, because we know now you're dealing with a situation where were healthcare workers don't have their personal protective equipment that could have an addressed. We may have patients who don't you know, have breathing machines when they need them that could have been addressed. I see you beds, I mean all these things could have been addressed. You have big public spaces where you guys are in southern California. They could have started to be petrol fitted in modeled to be able to provide some search capacity that could have been done, but we didn't do it and part of that human nature, women, we don't most humans, don't like to act until something is literally slapping,
in the face I mean with regard to our personal health or with regard to some big public health issue. Like this, we cannot like to close our eyes, pretend it doesn't exist, and if we ignore it, it will affect us. But do you know that's not the case here, and so I think that anyone who used the word failure. You know you can't disentangle anything from politics nowadays, but the reality is we didn't act than we could have now think that was a mistake and also very sympathetic to the role they have witches. They have to try to prevent panic. So I am. I am sympathetic to this thing there juggling, which is they don't want mass pay you saw people hoarding hoarding toilet paper, which is so beyond me. Cuz. These people have showers hop in there and clean your, but I don't know it's not. I mean of all the things you can't there's a workaround for that, but okay, so might my my provocative question is this: I can see someone saying look everyone's going to get it x. Amount of people are going to die,
that's tragic, but why add on the huge economic apocalypse that will have its own deadly implications? Wouldn't it be better to just go about business as usual, and accept the reality without adding a recession. I think it's a good question, but I will tell you, though, that it is one of these things were when you look at what will happen, how you get a game this out? A lot about you have to understand. The first of all people can get really sick from this, even if they don't die. We ve been looking at this and in just binary terms, lived or died. That's too simplistic carrying it really sick and it can affect you can affect your life and your function of your life later on. But the other thing, when you look at these mortality rates- and you say ok in who Bay Province, China, the mortality rate, was around two point. Three two point: four percent outside of that province. Mortality rates in China were actually underneath. A percent point six point seven. So why is that right same
Harris. Why did it kills so many more people in who Bay verses outside of who bay? And the answer really has to do with the fact that its strained the medical system? Ah, there are a lot of people there who could have been saved the died because they did have enough medical capacity in the initial stages of this same thing, happen. Italy right now I mean every day again the numbers change with the case vitality rate. There is five six percent, so much higher the virus didn't become suddenly that much deadlier, it's the strain on the medical system. What a great point could, even I have been trying to frame this in how deadly as this virus, but you're right it's in a context of how good as the medical system at treating the virus? Yes, not an objective number
That is stand alone. It's in a context of a medical system. Yeah I mean. Let me give you this description. I did a lot of reading and what this virus actually does to the body in this is relevant to what we're just talking about. But what is this virus due to the body? Ok, so virus gets into your body its it infects, a cell uses that sells machinery to start replicating, dividing and making more more common itself. Ultimately it can overwhelm your bodies immune system it. I can't fight only more starts to cause organ failure. All these sorts of things right, that's what you typically thinker with an infection and they're probably happens to some extent here as well. But what I find fascinating is that this virus, simple, killer also affects a particular enzyme in the lungs that's responsible for the making of something known as surfactant. Okay, so here's I don't you think, that's her!
your lungs, you think about your lungs of these sort of big squishy sponges. You know they contracted. They expand. That's how you eat your breathing, push out carbon dioxide to take an oxygen. That's that's what's happening, but you know like a dry sponge sponge. It sin city Dry. It's really hard right to the Latin is kind The reality is that he's gone, no matter how hard you noticed, it's a dry thing. What makes it become pliable again pull detergent on it right now, send it's nice and easy to squash again. Surfactant is the detergent. What this virus is doing is taking away you're surfactant, turning your lungs into these hard sort of difficult to contract organs. Now that's a really challenging problem to treat but it is treatable. Ok, so if I had a patient like that, there are strategies that we could use it I know, are very confident
not everybody. I was very confident that we can keep their patient alive. We could use high function ventilators, we could do something called at no extra corporeal membrane oxygenation their great strategies. We have to try and keep a patient like that alive. My point is this: that the viruses is a deadly virus, but if we were running full throttle- and I had everything at my disposal for every patient that came in, I think we could lower the fatality rate tremendously, because it's really a reflection of There are not these patients can get medical care, the viruses, bad, I mean I'm not. I don't want to minimize that part of it, but the reason fatality rates are so high is because of the strain on the medical system, and we thank you know in the United States. I couldn't now that can happen here, but made
it is happening here. Maybe that is why you know Governor Newsome is really worried that twenty five million people get this thing within the next eight weeks in California. That's going to be a problem! That's why Governor Cuomo essentially credit the efforts that he did the pause York efforts that he did today worries saying only essential people need to be outside. I dont want the medical system overwhelmed, because that is a your problem right now than the virus, I think, especially in the developed world. So that's what we're dealing with and again keep in mind this virus acts in a different way. It takes away your a fact in your ability for your lungs to actually function, no matter how much viruses in the body. So these are all things that you know again we're knowable we're actionable that we prize should have been doing something on in you. Don't worry we're law behind the curve here. I think we still got time, but we're la behind the curve, God Sunday,
I love you and you're saying those long words. I was getting horny. I you're just a factor quickly distant and I'm because you are on contagion. but what I am now watch twice, because I'm a masochistic is that crazy but you're on that movie with you really. I mean. I know it's so much more intense, but the similarities are airy, yeah. That is a little surreal. I you know I mean I mean imitating life just in reverse order, I guess yeah. It was interesting. Member when somebody was telling me about the movie before ever did anything, and they said you know. The real theme of this movie is obviously about this virus, but it's also, I think, going back to the first point he has brought up. It was also this idea that sometimes fear and misinformation can spread faster and be even more deadly than the virus itself random. I really took that the heart,
job now for me is if I do nothing else, it's to diminish that fear and obviously try and stop that misinformation, because I learned something Monica from the whole thing and enough. I can strangely, how many years ago was ever ten yards nine years ago. If I get like now how strangely have some for a role in preventing the outcome that that people face to have movie yeah it would be a great Europe on a having a huge impact on this. Truly our so grateful for your kind of like my Tom broke off, like I trust you ye a you. Thank you. You you're the steady hand at the wheel. I appreciate what happened as I did. Trickle residency- and I always thought nothing can hurt me after doing that, This has been the most prolonged busy thing I think I've ever done here. We love you. We appreciate you given us But much of your time I know you're you're nonstop now, so we just were endlessly grateful were always here for you
is anything you want to get out. Please tell us and we will be quick to disseminate. I really appreciate that they are Monica our indian heritage. Now right. This has got to be the greeting so the say, yeah because even the elbow bumpy get into closer than the must stay totally I knew you guys were the superior population. I always knew it. That's really wanted to be white Tiger. The last time this out, the Ink Sanjay level guy you soon. Thank you. You do good luck, healthy debate