Vivek Murthy is an American physician and former vice admiral in the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps who served as the 19th Surgeon General of the United States. Vivek chats with the armchair expert about the health implications of loneliness, how his childhood as an outsider made him more compassionate and why he became interested in public policy. Dax wonders about the dilemma between liberty and equality on health legislation and Vivek talks about the biggest boat rescue in human history. He talks about what he learned from a patient who won the lottery and the lessons he’s taken from patients on their deathbeds.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome welcome album arm, chair expert, I'm or someone requested. What was it MAX plus Burton? Oh, I guess I threw a MAX plumber ten out. Someone wanted to hear that a governess The only tried again tat welcome welcome other larger expert experts on expert. I am Plan Dumbarton. Oh wait. No man we're gonna, do max plus burden, I'm joy, Who do you wanna go bided undiscovered my regular, ok, Monica pair beds. Me Amy nominated. Today we have just a mine blowing expert, a doktor van mercy. He is an american physician in former vice admiral in the Public Health Service Commission CORE, whose served as the nineteenth surgeon general of these United States, Murphy founded the nonprofit doctors for America and two thousand eight. It was the first search engine, of indian descent. It was the youngest active duty, flag officer in federal, uniform service. He
a Harvard grab a yell grad any as a great book entitled together? Why social connection holds the key to better health, higher performance in greater Venus and vague, wanted us to make it really clear that we had recorded this before the many protests in that he would have liked to have commented on it. Yeah, especially as this is a lot about mental health and happiness, and so, if its little regrettable for him that he couldn't really speak on what's going on right now, Yes, now without further do please enjoy Doktor Van Marthy. We are supported by Bob's red mill, the start of all my mornings. What a beautiful foundation Bob's red mill gives me for the rest of the day
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Please accept my apologies. I had to do a cost benefit analysis, be rude in late or have coffee and be good at this interview, and I apologise you had to bear the brunt of that. Ok, you! You made the right choice. Where are you sitting? Well, I'm actually in my sister's house. In Miami sordid, oh no cure is so. This is where my wife and kids I live now, but I grew up in Miami Florida. My parents were so near my sister and brother law, so we had. She planned to come down here, MID March, because my grandmother and fat sugar and recovering from surgery, and that was just went there. You're starting to certain closed down. However,
Never before have slightly said you know we may not be able to come back if we go down, but without a better to be quarantine with family than to be alone in this volcano in DC. So here we are ok, so vat I knew you were from Miami because I about you now, and you have an interesting story that I think ultimately will funnel into why you ve written a book you ve written in. Why you're interested in the topic your currently pursuing so first and foremost, mom and dad they emigrated here from the UK, When you were there till at three o clock, I was actually one when we left the you can't today, which I left. India in narrowly seventies, came to the UK, and I was one my sister was too they left in inventing new can lead to a rural part of nuisance The two: are there any I'm not nonverbal urban parts of neutral- and this is a dangerous. World compared to other parts of new. Some info is definitely a remote area
and it was really a shock to their system many ways and they grew up in the warmth of South India. And now there in Newfoundland, It's warm, maybe a couple months out of year after two years day relocated to Miami Florida, and that's where I grew up. Ok, ok, you're, really bizarre off topic: question: have your parents ever been the Santa Barbara? They had not. Ok, I urge you to take them there, because Monica parents are also from South India and You feel, like Santa Barbara, reminds the most of home of any place in the. U S, you should have your parents come visit, Miami at some point. It is. My parents feel the same way about my that your parents about Santa Barbara hinder when they move here. They set up this effort to recreate India. Backyard. So right now- and I just back into our We have a ten varieties,
mangoes, six, GMO Free, super bowl and bananas and all kinds of suffering there, David Lotta, ok, now also did you have Monica experience, did. Did you run from being indian? Was it something that you felt made you other and excluded you from my young kids in Miami ordered you, racing in love it great questions, are we we were. Deeply immersed in indian culture as growing up, so we embrace it, but it wasn't all so easy, because when we were in school, my sister and I were really- I think, the only indian kids school and so people really didn't know what to make of us. They thought of your native American thought that we had weird smelling food on when he said names at our parents had strange accents. So there is a lot of that to deal with that made us feel like we were other. In some way. Unfortunately, there were other new families that we would get together with when we went to Temple and seen on weekends,
we were deeply anchored in the culture, but we did feel like outsiders. Often now. I wonder if this is also gendered. Ah coups d, you think you and your sister both felt that or do you think she wanted more distance from the culture or the same. I think we were pretty similar in that respect and we're both also by per now it s very shy and name interim, maybe I'm more shine and she is at least I was growing up, and so I think I can keep it in December there feeling too. This is feelings, it being an outsider. Suffice to say I mean I would ask you to spurting others about you, but I did. The experience at least at school was, we won you. It was. It was especially in elementary school and, I would say, most have middle school. I toward high school. I got. I found my community to someone said that. Does those early years were wrapped interesting. I didn't really want to go to school. I would sometimes take having something here for that reason, because I just
how is this hearing about exams or teachers? I was asleep I didn't want to feel like. I was a loner, my father time, yeah about that second, another serious time the day for me, where's lunchtime when I walked into the cap materia in ways petrified about whether I would have somebody to sit next to or not So? How is your sir, I was joking right to sell remembered, is waiting for the bell to ring at three o clock, so you're just like run, and finally, guaranteeing go home where I felt really loved in three way secure about that belong it on. I loved it, but school is a different matter. Do you think they had a sense of how excluding the environment was? They had brought you to or what was their kind of stance on it where they like this is gonna. Make you great this place? Has opportunities can be worth it always alike,
that we put him pretty difficult situation Joe. You know, I think they knew it will be challenging, but I dont think day new at the time that I was feeling well me understanding our time, making, friends and other kids. I think my father, we had this one conversation I remember when I was gosh may be like second or third grade. I remember him asking you like why I was playing with other kids and do know how to tell him. Thank you that I was, really shine, wasn't carbon. I just do not explain it is. I think I was even just trying to figure out myself. Will Europe embarrass. Now I mean I imagine I would feel, shame and embarrassment. If my dad asked me that night yeah yeah, I was deeply ashamed at it in I just because at that age I can also say that I was unable to hang up. Other kids, you somehow I it was a likeable. There's something wrong with me: stagger socially deficient than anyone
I feel that way. Anyone admit that does somebody else. I remember him being puzzle, then. Just Egypt asked me that way and you hanging out that occurred. So why don't you want to hang over the kids, and I just happening you is that I want to. I just don't How do you think the same thing is? I dont think that he had necessarily experience the kind of loneliness that I had experience. My five minutes, as is from his father, Ledge Lincoln South India, and I didn't have much at all in the village like in they grew up in relative poverty, a means to give you a sensitive every night for dinner. They used to boil down or grain, and they will just keep diluting it with water until they had a volume like Philip everyone's ball ass. It was now other
five other siblings his mother had died when he was ten from tuberculosis and my father, I she largely raised his sibling centre, really talk the one thing that they were not born. Where relationships they they felt like they had a community, they felt supported and it wasn't just their family was neighbours. It was other members of the village they all felt like they were part of the same team. If dwell so this notion of going to school and not playing with other kids and feeling like an outsider, was foreign to the experience of my mother and Father YA, not to harp on this too much. We ve talked about this a few times. Words like I am deeply sympathetic to first generation kids, because you're inheriting someone else's dream you now it's one thing: if I decide on. You know what I'm gonna fucking try to make. My way in China can be difficult, but I some value and then, hopefully, out cheap. This goal I have over there, but you know when you take It-
that desire to go there and you disinherited? It's such a different thing, and I dont know that you even consider that when you make those decisions about you know when they came over. I think they re. He knew what it was gonna be like as it wasn't like they had a whole. You know bevy of friends who had gone over ten years earlier and that this is what has happened, like this is what the look out for you, the things you need to do. They were coming over without really any contacts are much back running to expand, and that's why you know that I think about their journey. They made from relative obscurity and poverty in a small village, in my father's case and from a relatively modest family from Bangalore. My mom's case, and I think about all that is seen and everything that they encountered and the risks that they took. Jumping that both feet into completely unknown scenario.
And doing so with children and somehow finding ways to make it and coming to the place where they have, and I recognise that there is no leap I can make in my life that will equal the size of the leap that they may inside it's a humble intermediaries to remember that, because it is easy when you your thought, let your parents to the sometimes take them for granted interested assume that you know they don't know what you're going through such that. I realise that I'm not sure I will ever fully appreciate what they went through yeah. What an extraordinary turning well, maybe when you take your two children up to any law, must space station on Mars, where they dont have value, educate eyes like a labour camp, so exists. You'll have noticed feels that there maybe you'll understand what just out of curiosity, what what did your father end up doing career wise down in my?
so he trained in medicine. The? U is practising medicine up in England and you four men in Miami initially when he came down here he was teaching the universe you my misquote medicine in practising there. In a few years later here my mom said about medical practice, my mother actually eager degrees in English, literature by cheap built and ran office for my dad. What was really extraordinary for me as a kid in understand much of the science that was going on in terms of what they were doing is. I could see that they were both really important arches events and the healing at their patients were experiencing, and they did that through building relationships with them by getting to know that making them feel like seen and heard and understood, and that happened all the way from the very beginning moment when they set footing the bill
My mother read them and spoke to them and spend time with them too. When my father examined them, twenty would both call them afterward to check on them and see how they were doing. Theirs is the experience that I brought up a little bit in bulk about when I was in really young, letting me seven or eight years old, I remember being broken up by my parents and just hurried into the car and those probably two in the morning and industry. Driving to this trailer park in Miami and they explain to her on the way that their patient, Gordon women, struggling with metastatic cancer, inches passed away. And being you Gordon well, then they also knew his wife well because they got you know. People say and they were really worried that his wife routes will be grieving alone, and so we drove to the park to check on it and I remember so tat
my mother and her traditional indian Saudi walking up the steps over its trailer. Remember the door opening and Ruth stepping out with tears streaming down, half his and I remember the two them embracing just under the light of the moon. It was an extraordinary moment, in the moment. Thinking while they are so different terms, are the world's if they came from and I also think that moment- and I realized that is different as they were when they had made of each other- was family- think they had built this amazing relationship that had crossed over five experiences and differences in culture and and
to me became a medicine is all about with little in those kind of relationships healing through that process. While if there is a singular human condition that transcends all ethnicities and populations, it is losing people you love, no one will escape that fate on planet earth. Now, that's profound! Now let me ask another provocative question: Had you been embraced by everybody in elementary scorning junior high do end up at Harvard and at Yale. Did you ever ask yourself that question? I do. I mean it so hard to know when twists and turns in our path like lead us to where we go so I wouldn't change the past because I dont know that would change what I had now a thing about some other bullies. I encountered a middle school. They get the day like give me a deeper appreciation for who I was and more sympathy for others.
Being bullied, perhaps so tat. When I look back at the men in icy open grateful that I was able to learn from them, but especially grateful that I can say that I believe Billina during those hard times, if I did not a family to come home to have the security being led by my parents and sister. I dont know how I would have handled those difficult situations. And in so many of the folks at her in that situation, just don't have that. Then they go home to more ice, patient. But one thing I realize is especially those getting older is, I think, there's something about experiencing pain and exclusion. That makes you sensitive to it and other people, and I sure to recognise that over time that the ratio on people around neither were feeling like dated measure up to our feeling left out and out other it in some way and they weren't just people. You know browns can like mean had funny Sunday names
my kids. It was back in those letting okay. Those like, as I thought this is there's something brought her you're happening inside me. While the system is set up even in the high school it's only really benefiting about eight percent of the path that are really popular or on the sports dealing in Rio. That the vast majority of people are on the top of the pyramid- and they are looking upward and it's not ideal from the majority of them Why are you and those threats to also are going through? Whatever airlines not like you were popular, but their dad beats the red wagon ion? Yes, there's no escape. He can you hold on Wednesday night three year. Old son is about the Pekin through the door here. What what the three year old habits, egg, obey He gets upset when I'm on the computer on the phone for too long, so he's variously boys. These various incident side you see he and I are very similar. I go in terms of my hour when I was like when I was a child crazy to see that this. I know that you so I
I ended up with two girls with and now I'm I'm really grateful. I'm so glad I don't have boys, but that's one thing I was excited to do was to have a boy that hopefully had all the same emotional issues. I have cuz I feel like I figured out how to work with them. I was excited to like give them the playbook on. What do you do with weird suite of behaviors. Are you finding that exciting that you nobody's feeling with those emotions, it's real to see lacking a mirror if actively to see a year, I'm playing out again, like you know a few decades later, but you know I'll be honest, accept it worries me a bit because I don't want him to go through the same pain and differ these that I went through like I see him shy, for example around other kids and my no. I don't want to feel aired and low mean like when he goes to school. Like the way I did, and I see him I really sensitive to emotions. You around him, which can be an extraordinary gift, but I don't want him to feel too much, You know when I look at my daughter who is so interesting,
My daughter looks much more like the union's out of our family, which very much more like my way and personality and my sanity office, and now I see my wife is chinese American, and so my son looks very chinese, but is per thousand much like my so look at her and she's Do not return to buy things that happen around release. Much less so and then you know he'll pick up on this q or that Q and start crying about this or that you know, if I'm upset just tensed just before this podcast castrated, I was lying down on the bed and thinking about something and he ran up to me. He jumped, on my stomach It is not the window me so many shared by all, and then he just started with because nobody
in the EU is an area that is sweet and I feel like super, attach them and protective of him that you don't want him to feel the same pain that I'd growing up. How we need a world good enough for those boys, because the trajectory has always been an you. Take your son in each you try to forge him into something that can handle this brutal exist dense, but more more, like none are now. There are perfect. We need to make our health at that accepts them and embraces them and in doesn't bulky, but also he's like because he has you as his model, so at least their son then I will, but my dad is this now accept on the general. I doubt when he asked the girl out. She says no he's gonna, give a shit about that say underlie dad this ever heard of him. Ok, so I have another question, so you gotTa Yale for your medical degree, but then you also pick up an mba. Why
Can't you know when I came to you. I didn't think I wanna do another degree, but I had come off. Is spending a few years building there's not profit organization with my sister, so we go to college thinking over gonna, just focus on studying and maybe going to afterwards and I remember a fall of freshman year. I die calls me and he says he vague theirs. They philanthropist in Florida who just moved here and he wants to give money to a cause, but he does No, what caused to give it you know and, as I do have any ideas on the union, me my sister went to work on a buzz. I clap. I never thought about the sounds it scam. If you have hang on that's my baggage,
Actually now very present. Have you there's no one as we give money. What funny usually happen is this? This guy ended up funding this idea, my sister and I had to build an HIV Education Programme in India, and we had spent a long time in India this summer four and be neither HIV is a growing problem, thereby noticing a lot about it. So we thought what if he built appear education model there mobilise youth around the country to do the work on prevention of HIV. That country really needs, so that's always treated it until we trained a bunch of students, and six of us went to India that summer to bangalore- and we conducted all these workshops- and it was an amazing experience and envy did its national recruitment process and got all these students and started training and through the next year they that second euro. Just when we are finishing our training ideas before we're supposed to get on the plane, we call they travel
just to confirm our tickets. This is back on the day when you do things like tat and, yes, I got on. Haven't you take it for you, I will wait, they should have all been booked he's. While reservation is made that there is never payment issued on my gosh, so we call the sponsor. We ve got all the Students were on the country ready to go, and we like ten or twelve students and the word the tickets, and we can reach him and then the days of american region can reach man finally turned out. He had fled the country because he was an internet. Economists, and this is what he would do. You agree to high communities and he would supposedly fine causes four initially to build trust, Rhine. He would scuba. You got the good faith. My exact and a confidence scheme exactly That was actually a really difficult moment for us for two reasons. One is because you know we had, What are your entire summers? You know the line, be it asked other people's investors eight and ass. They had gone to battle with their parents. Saying that
I got to do this. This is for a good cause, even though their parents wanted them to do a safe job and do the work and research flat at home, and are? We fell a billion, let them down. But there is another reason it was really painful is because the person they he took, the most money from was actually If my mother, my mother and he had all he'd like several years becoming really close to my family, you recognise that my parents really wanted to build a temple in South Florida. They had all these other philanthropic goals, and so he convince them that they should focus on philanthropy and then he would help them manage their assets so that they could take care of their family. Put their kids through college were really focus on serving humanity which was there all yes ended, he's hooked up the money and fled the country, and so we were also personally devastated and my sister and I were both in private colleges that were pricey another time and down, and it was really tough. This
my wife- and I are such a great combo, because I think everyone's trying to get one over on me in she wants to build that temple it. It's perfect. You normally yea it. If, as you know, my father is very trusting people and he always sees the best thing people amendment, is too, but I think she's a little bit more cautious under my father, and so this is She was turned to your worried, but he is, I know, he's been a family friend and so close to us for years, such as we never really thought that this would happen that it was. It was big deficit. As you probably know, there are support. Groups for people who have been the victims of economies were scams like is deeply humiliating of its trauma now in the biggest wake, as is its violated such a deep sense of
for us, it s exactly right. Oh man, that's exactly right and that that might even be a deeper wound and money. That's losses that loss of trust, a shame that comes with. Yes, that's why scams works so well, because people are too embarrassed to report them. So often that's. What's whites whites one of the best crimes because people are just? rather just let it go away here. Ok, we're coming all the topics of areas question, so we went through this. This crazy experience over the next few days, where we had to make a decision like do we just send ever be back. Where do we find some way to raise fifteen thousand dollars, because how much money we had to raise to buy tickets to go to India to support everyone that summer in Tibet? the back now we were a bunch of college students. Fifteen thousand dollars was just a woman.
It is well worth millions of dollars. They were so far from around the possibility for us, but that ended up being a defining moment for me and for the group, because my sister I were leading this organization and deal with you were always to eighteen years old right. I don't know anything. They ve been people were looking at as you know what they should do in it was one of those moments where we I realize I followed his weight on my shoulder as I go K. If I made the wrong call here, twelve people will lose their summers and it's me bad, but, as you know, I think this is one of those moments where we just gotta put our faith in ourselves and find a way to make this happen. So I said, let's commit to getting fifteen thousand dollars, and we had five days did. Is we call them everybody? We knew we held fundraiser locally. We found potential donors? We went to the media to get stories written about what we are trying to do and we raise after, he does not just in time
get to India and it was a miracle that it no only happened, because the generosity of peoples who took a leap of faith and as an alias There was a running that, at a time where we had been cheated by somebody, because we put our faith in the wrong person. Other people who barely new us were putting their faith in us and giving us a yard or India, so we were especially grateful for the aim is that the next several years building disorganization expanding its work around India to the United States. In one hour in medical school. I was thinking about that. Experience about the HIV organization. We build about a second organs. We started a couple years later to train community health workers and small village in Indiana was thinking Maybe you want to do more distant future. Everyone build more organisations, but I kept thinking and all these instances. Where are you and up it like three in the morning trying to figure out a fundraising strategy or do with management issues that I had actually no skill. I know in dealing with yeah
I think he's somebody's figured out how to do this? Well, I just don't know how to maybe, if I gotta go, in school, I learn how to build a fact of organizations and that's what ultimately copy to go down the idea tat. I can think about several moments like that in my life I pivotal moment make or break moments yeah when they occur in its rejection of my life and when I think about my kids in particular, how we want to raise them. I would love to well to raise them to be able to make the informed a courageous call in moments at that but I more one would be able to support them in train them and how to deal with it when it doesn't work out.
Yeah yeah when they make their call and they actually dont get the outcome. I mean that can be crushing and then had he picked herself up at. He put the pieces back together at a build up the courage to deal with and make the bold call next time. That's and that's easy. Now: ok, we got jump ahead because we want, but your book, but also we gotta tell people that. Of course you are the surgeon general of the United States, these United States and there's one step along the way. You'd also started doctors for America right which resulted in fifteen thousand physicians and medical students. All working in concert somehow so quickly. Tell me about the accomplishment of that. That was one of many unexpected turns in the road. So to speak at the time that I will start
billing Doctress America. With a few colleagues, I was practising medicine and I was teaching and I was building a technology company at the same time, and I was really really stretched and has actually trying to figure out how to cut something out, some really focusing and then its two thousand and seven. The presidential elections are heating up and I'm hearing all this discussion about healthcare and I'm thinking to myself. Well, I'm in healthcare but I know nothing about policy or politics, but I know that things are working well in our system. They could be a lot better and I wonder maybe this is our opportunity for things to get better. Maybe we elect a president could put a real sense of a health care or foreign plan in place. I'm also seeing all of this in a system a moment,
legs were thing now nothing's any time you know it's all. If someone does happen, issues would be people with lots of money who get a seat at the table like big insurance companies arm accompanies hospital systems, but no unknown tears, but will we think something is wrong? I'll. As you know it is you guys it's all of us who are in the front lines right. Nurses, doctors is therapist, others are seeing what's working, what's working would start working like why don't they have Mormon Voice and so that's why I was actually remember very explicitly where I was when I was the psychic ancient. I was sitting in a law firm at the top of this building is very, very fancy, conference room. The only reason I was there was because a friend of mine who was working on campaigns had asked me to come to this meeting with where a bunch of political we're talking about what the campaigns should do, what their healthcare platform should be in. These were people who have a lot of power and influence and ensures me like you, is there and bottom they don't
like using it out of the room- and I remember thinking to myself, while these people have the power to change a plan, There is actually nobody here, who's been on the front lines of providing care would be like if we build a movement of people on the front lines who get actually sit at the table, shape policy make sure that it works for patients and for clinicians and build a kind of healthcare system that this country deserves. And that was what ultimately lead me to build actress from and the thing is I had absolutely no skill in to organise people I'd, never built a grassroots organization. I don't know anything about politics or policy, but I felt in that moment when I think about that idea, the same feeling that I have felt when I was seventeen years old when we went on our first divisions, trip doing HIV work in India and when I was standing in front of a group of six hundred students at a high school in Bangalore. Talking about the movement that we wanted, a bill of students all across India to take on each
and I had been chasing, that feeling of inspiration ever since then cause. I realise in their moment that what I really enjoyed was putting forth a vision for how we could improve the world and bringing people together who shared as some are set of values, to make that vision into something real. I would transform peoples. As for the better and I spent years searching for an opportunity to do that in sitting in that conference. From thinking about that idea of organizing doctors around the country, I felt the same way as it. You know what it doesn't matter. If I don't have enough time, I've gotta do this. I gotta figure out a way to make it happen, and so that's what led to this journey building doctors from America with other colleagues- and we were or to build a large coalition of doctors and all across the country who help shape pieces of wood, became the ultimate health reform bill who helped build up
it wasn't a perfect bill that didn't do everything that we felt they needed to do, but it took us forward. It helped us cover more people and we were so many of us were. We just really upset about the fact that our patients can get care cuz. They don't have insurance and help this really move toward better quality of care, which was it two and it became a defining experience for me. Change the trajectory of my life because it took me into the world of policy making and I dont think I ever would have there are for ones stay too. If you dare
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in a hundred percent satisfaction guarantee go to me: undies dot com slashed acts. That's me, undies dot com slashed acts it now. I'm I'm observing a pattern. I think when you're born into a system that you're clearly a part of your incentivize to keep this system going when you're the beneficiary of the system, you generally incentivize to keep it trodden along now, you're born into a system they Miami we're, not born, but you move into a system that really doesn't include you and you decide now, Oh, I don't accept that there is a system. I am now a part of that I'll be excluded forever, and now I'm gonna find this channel that I refuse to be left out of this system. These aren't all coincide
any you you re, and he s a good inside of your cash, relying on a couch. If you your hands deep insights about who I am and hopefully here these are interviews are only successful if they end with you lay on a couch and sobbing. That's that So let me hear what I have said there is value into having always been looking at things from the outside and going now. I will insert myself in some way- and I can imagine where a lot of the white doctors who are making amount of money, we're like either systems fucked up, but I'm a part of it in any kind of benefits me in arms, Ain around here, I think, there's something Sudan had. I think You're writing. Yours has meant that I think I have often felt like an outsider for various. Reasons. You know those young. It was because people looked at me, a second outsider, the leader,
life. It was because I was interacting with peoples who have very different ages and backgrounds from me. So when I was there with HIV work, for example, the people I find myself raising money from working within the school system, etc were three four decades older than I was, but I felt like: ok, that's, ok! I gotta find a way to make this work, I'm an outsider, but at a different point of view of where something add I do. My wife actually often says to me that I see myself outside the box looking in and then it's not that I think rules. Don't try to me, but she finds that I question arose a lot. I question the status quo. Mining waste ass might think it has to be that way. I think we can do in a different way, and I think sometimes you know sometimes Is that sometimes it's like highly annoying to her more annoying than anything, but I do think that that's why and I wonder, will there be a time in my life, but I feel like I'm an insider looked either people who would look at the three of us now and say: well, you guys are clearly inside
cars are worthy often unworthy. Establishment at this point right were operating from places of privilege, and you know, and comfort in an yes were on the inside do you know why she don't feel over? I feel like I'm still on the outside. I'm with you, I'm with you. I bet your wife, has about the same ratio. Mind as which is. I challenge everything. It's my hobby love really flushing up political points of view that I dont have like a really try to immerse myself and convince myself over there, and I think, for my life is about four percent of the time. It's worth it like, where I have a real kind of paradigm breaking view. Point on somebody, but the residence is annoying as hell. That's really I do, then, is that every bit me an hour is that, I think, is a pretty thing around. This idea of me am, I think, cheating SAM to pushy. First of all, and I think I traced the origins of this back to the fruit and vegetable market.
Angler in India whereas a kid I would just walk. You know into the market, and I would see people bargaining and I would just practice bargaining as well. They try to get tomatoes for the cheapest prize from Ngos for the cheapest price. Whoever was, but I think also feels like I'm like to push that. I asked for things I should just accept and about what, whenever it is getting a price, the the opportunity, whatever their age, is that it comes back to this by do you think that you have to accept the world as it is? And I address it I don't know I think, from a young age. I do think a lot of this comes from my parents. I think they brought me up with this idea that you should always respect other people. We should always treated the people well, but that doesn't mean that you can't aspire for bigger things, that you can ask people to do more, to give more to deserve more, doesn't mean it. You can demand more of yourself and of others and will be limited by what you see in front of you think about what's in your head and see if you can create that that was a mentality that they brought me up.
It's funny you know. Sometimes I don't you know as we get older, we change in this matter and in some other ways we see the same artist mentalities desired sort of the same as when I was a child about like this come from apparent. Ok, so I went touchy and unlike a couple of the things that you were behind, while you were the surgeon general, because the interests me greatly, I have to imagine, but I dont know the history of where were you the first surgeon general, the go hey guys addiction is, it is a health issue. It's not a moral failing was that new and proprietary to you as a search engine. When you said that I certainly don't own that fair point of view. We did issue the first surgeon general report on the topic of substance, use his orders when I was in office in, and it is a core point there
wanted to make? When I came into office, I said I want to modernize how we do our reports in terms of how we think about our communication strategy they. Otherwise it is pretty other sheep papers. It's on a shelf attempt people with took each visa free, but I wanted to put together something it's easy: people's real lived experiences and I wanted to work with different messages: messengers, can also make sure that were tailoring these messages, the people who need them, but the real goal. With all of these reports and frankly without the campaigns we ran with committees about had an hard said was not just about conveying the criteria for diagnosing a substance, use disorder and enumerating all the evidence to support various types of medication, sister treatment systems- Recognising that ability to be compassionate towards others. Our ability to give and receive love, sometimes just its powerful, in arguing as the medicines that doctors like me ever
options for over the years and part of the reason I was so important to me as I had spoken with so many people over the years who had struggled with substance use disorders. Some of them were my own, patients. Others were people. I met around the country and our research in general entreaty spent every one of them said that there was a person or a group of people and had played a pivotal part and then getting through the dark tunnel of addiction in emerging and recovery and sang and recovery, and so it son just about the medicines, although their important his scientists about the counselling. Although that's critical, It is also about the people in our lives by the community that we bill and to me that was in empowering messages. It means that each of us has an extraordinarily powerful role that we can play in supporting people around us who may be struggling with addiction, and that was a core message that I wanted to do it
through this report, and you were in medicine when this shift first happened right. There was that there was a very exact moment where farmer had funded some study in an improved or put in quotes- proved that there is really no risk of long term addiction with all these opiate prescriptions and that in fact, acts cotton was very saved as it was time, Peace and all this in the innate then launched right a just all up boots on the ground. They went met with every doktor. They showed him. This data dont be afraid to prescribe the stuff. You must have been working in medicine when that. First half Do you recall that push? I do. I do recall than that. And there were several things happening? There is a push for us to be more human, in our treatment of pain, recognised
there we were letting people's pain go only partially treating people are suffering on a surly. There is also this pushed to use opiates to relieve the pain and eyes so distinctly remember what some leaves were tottering training. We were taught that, if you give appeared medications does somebody who, as corner, legitimate pain, but they can't get it right. We now know just how can that yeah, but thousands and thousands and thousands of healthcare professionals were taught us. Well, that's I was wondering if you, if you have any of your spidey senses at that time, where it was it was anybody you going like. I don't know about this because I remember be outside, and I've been sober for fifteen years, and I remember just thinking, while this is horseshit here, what the study says that the notion that, is an addictive is preposterous. Yet you know it was when I was in medical school in hiding relating to question that you know, because I didn't have experience in otherwise.
But, as the years went on medicine, an ice to realize that we were seeing so many patients who had obedience- his orders now then another hand we were sending so many people out on it. As a women activists disconnect, you know the added value, This has got to be more dangerous than you should just other people. He prescribed due to just hang in the lobby for a while, but we'll be back up. Happened with the pharmaceutical companies- are the ones that are funded. These studies like how How did this? That's what ended up coming out right that that that this one one study that was very fatally flawed was the one that they built this mountain on top of. The evidence was there was, I nearly as robust as people thought I was showing that this was safe and he turned out. There was extraordinary marketing muscle behind it from the farmer companies that you know they were air, pushing.
Like to data to doctors, and they are doing what they had done for many years, which is buying doctors trips in reason, other things just to wine and dine them, and they get them to use their medication and You know it turns out, we are still paying the price for then we likely will for a really really long time yap. So the other kind of novel approach you had as a surgeon general again to my knowledge, I'm no no student of certain general policy, but it seems like you really shifted the focus to prevention. There's a couple fun topics within that, because a it goes without saying that I totally agree. I mean us so many of these downward, health issues are so preventable, and yet it slams up against some things that I regularly Russell against. I am sir,
and who values liberty. I think that's a tenant of this constitution in this country that has to be defended fiercely and I believe in it. So on one end, I believe everyone has a right to destroy themselves as, whereas that sounds that everyone should
you have the right to live as short of a life as they like, but of course, but all of us people who love liberty dont, want acknowledges those people then end up in the system. So what is it? It's a dicey, one cause you're dealing with liberty, but then, of course, we have a system by which we will not turn people away from hospital, so the reality as we will deal with their choices. So how? How did you wrestle with those little sticky parts, Seville who question in and public health as a place where these tensions you're really intensify? They d surround food on we're, trying to figure out well to put restrictions on foods and not people towards healthier food issue. We treated like cigarettes and was obvious answer is yes, I mean, if you're leaving preparing lung cancer to cardiovascular disease, there's more people, cardiovascular disease than lung
these, and yet we are very able to. You know, try hard line about one. Does he have a clear and not food, so I remained in tomorrow's point. These are arbitrary, lions, yeah. To some extent, there were drawing that we like to think we ve got our own, clarity on our philosophy and that we apply that rigorously and consistently across all dimensions of our life. She does. None was really do that. You were messy all of us, myself included, and now we apply or philosophical beliefs. We saw what I think one thing, and then I tried to do in try to think about. When I was in office in and son you think about it. Not just is about individual liberty, verses, government intrusion and heavy handedness But is there another lands to which we can look at this? Can you look at this through the lens of collective responsibility, so we believe, for example, there were all out here just for ourselves and that our destiny is determined solely by us.
Then we can go and live our lives and the way we want. We can work out everyone or we can not weaken he. Ten cheeseburgers, updating or weaken jog everyday windy whenever we want. But if we recognise what I think is the reality, he's a we are truly interdependent creatures and that we rely on other people to build our path, a success. We rely on other people to support us when we fall down and then we may start to make very different decisions right. So in a collective society. What we do is if we recognize ritually interdependent. We also don't let people suffer entirely on their own until I'll. Give you once exam. A policy that might seem obscure about which embodies s in the Reagan administration. There is a law put forward all the amygdala I rule, which essentially
add that an emergency room department in a hospital was required to take care. Somebody who came in with a medical emergency, even if they didn't have the money to pay for they might say well. What kind of philosophy is that based on? Why can't tell you what kind of political philosophy is based on, but I can tell you it's based on a human value that says that when the chips are down and other people are suffering we step up and we take care of ideology, human value think that it's actually resonate with a deeper believes that most people have not everyone, but most people- and you know you see that come out in times of crisis. When he's a hurricane or a tornado rips through an area people don't start counting check to see. You know whether any pay back for donating a meal to a family need to step up, and they said that's the best humanity come yet using their right now in the Corbett nineteen pandemic, when doctors and nurses are putting it
wives and the line, even though they don't have enough masks, because they were sworn duty to help protect other people using neighbours topping up meals to support other neighbours were tools and go out because air in a high risk group- yours humanity its past many sided. Nine, eleven and nine eleven was extraordinary where the lesser known stories at nine eleven is the boat left story. I'm nine eleven! You guys are you familiar with the boat lists were none. I don't think so. When the twin towers were burning down, it was it many many smokin ashen be earned. It was hard to tell which direction to go if you were fleeing, as some people played north and that was actually the path of relief, but a lot of people fled south are realising that they reach is heading towards the Hudson and that they would have no escape from there and, as it happened, TAT was
thousands of people started to build on that southernmost, Hyper Manhattan and they're. Getting more and more anxious and desperate is the smoke and far behind them were growing. The coastguard recognise that this was going on. And the you also that they didn't have enough resources in the area to be able to rescue all of them, so they did something they had never done before, what it is they issued. He call to all the civilian boats in the area and ask them to join on this unprecedented rescue mission. You might think in that moment, if you're sitting on a boat in the hudson- and you see
this infernal growing in front of you are you gonna, take your boat toward the infernal or you gonna head for the safety of all within minutes. There were scores of boats that were streaking torment, Anne and these boats, guided by civilians, brought said, covered passengers on board. It gave them water, they buried them to safety in total DE rescued. Nearly five hundred thousand people. And that nine eleven boat rescue became the largest boat rescue work is bigger than dunk Why am right now? That's what people do because our hearts, when the chips are down we are guided by our human values and when I surgeon general. I try to think about that as a guiding principle to how we act or we can get into debates the political philosophy debates about what's a proper role of government does important debates. I don't get me wrong, but I think what we have them.
Sure is always guiding us is they came in perspective of how do we take care of each other, recognising that we all do truly depend on each other out of Iraqi, just because we are doing well in one area whether that economics, our health, our children, are doing well, doesn't mean that, because other people aren't you on that area that it's all their fault if we were born in different circumstances, if I was born in to poverty with two parents who are struggling with addiction, who couldn't be there for me and who couldn't provide me with comfort when I came home, scared and word from school, would I have turned out the same you'd be a comedian I really would have taken a very different tat, and I use that example, because that is the path it so many children that I have met all the take over the years have been struggling in without support from parents etc. So when we under and that so much of what we have is a product both of our individual effort, but also a circumstance when we re.
Is that our outcomes are truly interdependent outcomes that informs a very different approach to policy. More compassionate and more impact, taken a more collective approach and die. Is the way that we create a policy on public health that actually works for everyone. So here's where I'm I'm entirely pessimistic about humans, I in General thinks systems are capable of a lot more than human. Are independently the latches in the back of all cars that are made so that you can buckle a baby's a baby seed into right said. The hooks exist on all the cars now. All of us whether it's a penny or not, we're all gonna we're going to bear the burden of that as a society, so that every single car there comes off the line has these Now, if you were to ask me what I thought, the percentage of people, if you told them, ok, you have a baby. You have a car, see you're gonna have to go, get hooks installed in that car to use the car seat, I'm very pessimistic, I think you'd be here
or I don't even know what the number would be, but it would not be a hundred percent and the reasons on a per cent is because we came up with the system, that's better than people in. So that's now the counter of my kind of liberty. First thing is, unfortunately, we we're gonna need systems to be better than people, particularly in Paris, of prevention over cure right, because the USA is is forty years out. We need these systems in there's so much hesitation to have these systems but they're so necessary, and I couldn't do more they are necessary because we are imperfect beings change, is really hard to do alone. I know see this is, is someone who has spent so much time with patience advising them? My lifestyle change around diet and exercise and whom I sell has tried to make many he's over the years by my own diet and exercise patterns and is really really hard offering its heart ridable
forgotten in Europe was in his demonstrate. You have enormous willpower, anyone they can get to both those colleges like you're, probably a pack seen the willpower scale in it's hard for you right really hard and anything, it's really hard for most people do, but the reality is that these things get easier when three things happen, when we got people that we can take on these challenges with. Second, when we have an environment that supports the right changes, I and third, when we have a culture that also supports healthy. Have your change, I'm just they were with without actually means in having people around us is more obvious train if were making a pact with a couple of friends that we're gonna eat hopefully that we're all gonna go to the gym three times a week together at a lot easier to keep up and everything it alone, but the environment. Peace is also really important. If you surround somebody with healthy food versus surround them with unhealthy food, the
making very different choices, and it doesn't matter how educated they are a smart, their homage willpower they have, they will make very different choices, and so, if you ensure that people have a ready access to healthy food options in their workplaces, kids have access in their schools and an even go to a grocery store and actually has healthy produce and other. The options at an affordable price. Those are the kind of environmental changes that will make a nudge people toward help your choice as an example you brought it that of having hooks in a car is an example of that too your changing a baseline environment in a car to make healthier behaviour possible, but the third peace, this culture, peace is perhaps that is the most important of all, because ultimately I'll call cultures are collective set of beliefs and culture supports policy influences are decisions if we live in a culture that tells us that eating
fruit and vegetables is, is a weak thing to do, and the more manly thing to do is say to you hamburger right, then we're gonna discourage everyone, especially young children, from eating fruits. Vegetables, deserve and see it as uncool or undesirable in some way apply that you like flowed to anything else. You know if we tell people, for example, that cigarette smoking is cool right. Then it doesn't matter what the policies are. Nearly as much young people will gravitate towards cigarette smoking. So it is through the culture that we shape, though we also dramatically influence. The choices that people make powerful thing about, that is their cultures in our hands inside easy to change. It doesn't change overnight we can. Even a micro level start changing culture within our family within our group of friends by making different choices you know by talking about. Why were making sense in a certain direction. If we really want to change health, you ve got
understanding these three core elements, are truly better and more effective when we're doing things together. Environmental change, not just people in the right direction. We ve gotta, use that it is our culture police, though we have to proactively shape stay to for more. If you dare we are supported by liquid ivy. Believe it or not. Dehydration occurs daily in three out of four people. I'm telling everyone in our circle how frequently bar dehydrated and don't realize liquid ivy is an easy, healthy solution. One stick of liquid ivy in sixteen out of water hydrates you faster and more efficiently than water alone. Each serving provides is much migration as two to three bottles of water, plus vitamin c b: three be five basics and be twelve. I brought a bundle of it to my track day last week was a hundred and one degrees everyone's in full others in those handing out like indeed those nice and everyone loved it no longer dehydrated. It also contains five cent
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paralleled access to renowned masters, the lessons range from specifically showing you how to execute a technique to a masters insights about their craft that can be translated across many fields and disciplines. I highly recommend you check it out, get unlimited access to every master class and, as an arm cherry you get fifteen percent off the annual. All access pass, go to master class, dotcom, Slash Dax, that's master class dotcom slashed acts for fifteen percent off master class even I worry about with with my kids and with Oliver Frankly, I worry there we are using them in a culture that predominantly tells them that their senses self worth is defined by whether or not their successful and their success ass is determined by their ability to acquire one of three things of power or reputation, so someone's become famous if they
Loretta, high position in government or a company if they ve sold accompanying made Millions of dollars- we say you know they ve, made it their successful and that they have value, but value as human beings and our kids values is not extrinsic. It actually is and its rooted in our children's ability to give and receive love. That is what makes people valuable intrinsically, and the thing is Oliver kids do that automatically when their born, right? They don't feel ashamed to express, enjoy to give such a hog there much less restricted, and we are we. Older. But what happens if they get older is they start worship at the altar of these three false gods, and I leave them down a path doing which they believe
that their value in self worth is truly conditional, whereas we know that it is not, and so this all points to why, as culture is so essential when it comes to how we live public health, but also the future that our children all because I want our kids to grow up, knowing that they have intrinsic worth. I want the new approach, other other people in
if I'm not from a place of insufficiency, an end where they feel they need validation, but knowing the yeah they got things we could learn. They could be better but vague, inherently have work because they have the ability to express compassion, generosity, kindness and love towards anyone else. Well and yes, there are part of this inner connectivity that you speak up in, so there an asset to those around them. Ok, I could talk to you about that for another four hours, but we have limited time with you, and I want to talk about your book, which is entitled to gather the healing power of human connection in sometimes lonely world. I want you to start with your most delicious provocative story, which is Tom, but the guy who won the lottery, because I think we all have a fantasy about what it be like to win the lottery. This patient that I speak about in the book. He somebody I met in primary care clinic, and I remember in reading his track beforehand. I saw TAT he had
diabetes and high blood pressure he's dealing with a pcb, and you come in just four a routine visit to adjust his medication, see how you doing when he walks into the room ass now. Can I help you in one of them? are things he said to me. He said you know doc. I won the lottery and it was the worst thing that ever happened to me and he's been. Literal. Yes, she did when the lottery and he had. He had always. You coming to every year. You know it to him outside, rather like this guy, is a perfect life. Now before then, he worked in a bakery and people love what he may use actually pretty talented. He lived in a modest house in a modest, nay, didn't. Need he's really will lead to bigger house, but he laid his neighbors and emu. The people around them
when he won the lottery each cigarette. Why do I need to work anymore? I made it so you quit his job. He moved to this expensive community on the water and bought a big house with a big fence around it, and then you start to find these profoundly alone, but he didn't have colleagues at work who he enjoyed. You'd chatting with everyday getting have customers who told him how much they loved eyes. Big girl, and have neighbours that you get me? I'm just banter with you: no aid in the evenings on weekends. He was all alone and shortly after that, endeavour diabetes than I pretension than just told me. He said you know I used to be a pretty happy. And now I just feel like I'm angry all the time and we would destroy is really striking is maybe a couple.
Since when is it was one of my early introductions to loneliness and I started to see in the years a father loneliness is extraordinarily common among my patients to enable a comment to the hospital alone. You have to do with a really hard diagnoses, indecisions all by themselves, love God so sad and even at the time of death. Honestly, there were a number of instances where the only witnesses to people's final hours were myself and my colleagues in the hospital you observing loneliness or where people admitting it, because I find that this topic, which is so important, and you have so much data to back up its actual long term health effects and one that it requires a ton of vulnerability. For someone to say, I'm lonely cause because what they think you think is: oh you're, a loser no wants to be around you. It's it's an incredibly vulnerable statement to make some curious. If
Your practice, people feel safe enough to say I'm lonely, or were you seen the markers of loneliness as an almost hollings, since his people did not show? supposing it so that we may we may observing every now and then I will surface it and there is a year in. I don't have anyone. I wish I had friends and community. But the truth is honest. Truth is. I also have no idea how to talk about it. You know. I was early in my medical clear that time I was seeing something loneliness that I had never learned about in medical school and admit trained on and residency. I'm thinking to myself. How am I supposed to be helpful here and feeling guilty that I didn't know how and so even met my patient the lottery all I knew how to do is just try to listen as best they could and I tried to do.
Empathic ass. I could- and I hope that that had some value, but the reality is, I was feeling pretty lost like I just didn't know how to handle this, and I think that a lot of doctors feel that way. Will we don't talk about that in medicine learn about in medical school, and so we continue on all the while focusing other things we know how to control like a jealous. And people's medications and not always been able to deal with sometimes with their underlying primary issue, which might be a lack of social protection. The data that I'm sure you're more than aware, maybe we're even apart generating, but yes, said that if you had to pay for your child is shockingly as is whether or not they had a friend and were a smoker or no friends in smoked, the actually the better choice, if you had to make that with a gun to your head, would be a friend in smoke, cigarettes that they'll, probably
live longer, which was it is mine, blowing proposition the researcher leading to his? This is done by Julian whole, instead at bringing young university and who had been suspected based on data that had been accruing before her work that loneliness Some serious impact on health where's study showed is it. Loneliness is associated with an increased risk of heart disease and depression anxiety, but it's also associated with an increasing premature death and a reduction in lifespan and the degree to which the life and has reduced is similar to their lifespan reduction. You see with smoking. Fifteen cigarettes a day is greater than the mortality impact of obesity and of sedentary living, and I think about how much time myself and my predecessors in the office that a certain general have spent on smoke
obesity and sedentary living and how little we have spent on our social, health and loneliness, and it's not that those are. The three are an important their critically important. That he's been something that's been missing an end to really answer research. I helped to bring that life. Is it you think that that their hesitating was ages, a blind spot, or is it that there is an empirical challenge to tackling something like loneliness like how you quantify it? How do you know it is their methods? logical reasons why it's it's not as explored I'm. Turning both that. I think that the lack of recognition that it was an important issue to investigate,
prevented us from marshalling their resources and attention needed to develop the right methodology and put the right resources towards research. We can understand what striding loneliness, what are the consequences and how to be automatically addressing? I would imagine the upside of our technical intertwine. This is that you're, seeing some synthesis of all these different disciplines in one of those without a couple, different experts that you now and I'll be city study that comes to find out a lot about aces right, like a crude childhood at first diversity and how how much that impacts people's health in may result in obesity? So it's like you're starting to see all this data kind of merge and be synthesized in this fascinating way, which is like, if you, if you're betting, on prevention, which you are and I believe in, then you really got to start looking at child and all these emotional states that are hard to quantify and we got a value them and we got to think of them as much as diet and exercise and all that and it's
just a paradigm shift. Isn't it really is and has been fascinating, just to see the growing body of work, I'm trauma both childhood trauma, Adele trauma and think about how we redesigned care to be charming form, but would so interesting about so much of the work. On trauma is their relationships and of being in a really important cushion. If you well for people who are struggling with traumatic experiences, they cushion the blow if you will be an important part of their healing as well. That issues true across the lifespan is that you can think of relationships in our life
as the buffers that protect us from adversity. They also allow us to only be healthier, but also perform better, and it turns out that nor connections with each other, I think, heavy, profound impact on the polarisation that worse he ain't right now in our society and the toxic politics. Frankly that is consumed so much of the world threatened. This respect. When you have a growing disconnection between people, my neighbors and dont know neighbours. When people dont know people of different political parties, as they can just silo like in their own chatroom or tax thread, one We don't build a relationship with others and we actually can dialogue with them because when you have relationships at others, you can actually listen more effectively to them. So if you, for example, have somebody in when one or your families, a relative, perhaps who has very different political-
he's from you, because you have a relationship with them, even if their views, and I you even I totally disagree with them. You can sit down a conversation you're more likely to listen to what they are saying. But if you dont know somebody if they're just J K. Seventy four yahoo com- and I know tat form then, yes you're, not going to listen to them is clearly cuz, it's easier to make them into a point of view, as opposed to a human being the answer, as are our connections with each other, have frayed it become harder to listen to each other, which is made dialogue harder, and if you think about the challenges we are facing today, whether its climate change or whether its systemic inequalities or whether its major problems with our health care system, we can overcome these problems. Without being
well to talk to each other and come together in some way and there there's a conventional view that says: bluffing got people of different views, you put him in the same room and you get to talk about the issue and they will find some common ground and that's actually not how common ground is found. But the way you actually overcome polarization is you build a relationship? First, young people connect on their shared experiences, their shared concerns. They talk about their families, they get to know, what's happening with innovation his children and on their relationship. They can start to talk about difficult things, but we don't get that house. Joe relationships are to how we function. Then, what killed those connections. We want prioritize human relationships and we will be stuck in the same polarization but the same poor health outcomes that we're dealing with today. Here I got no grew with you more. I am always urging people to start, with like hey, are you guys? Both fathers there's a profound amount of overlap in your lives, just right there in an hour?
are you a sun within an aging parent? I mean, if you really chalk up the percentage of people's days, that's occupied by their activities. The activities cells or so relate more all doing them. Yet yellower were letting you know two per cent of their thoughts, their political opinions, but be their identity. An ending colbert, I you know it started very heartwarming me, whereas, like oh yeah, this could be great. There's no side of the Isle, that's immune from this, and then he added found its way in the last few weeks into being left right thing and just to see that those things merged is so disheartening. Now you have stable whether or not you wear a mask in public shouldn't, be a political statement and should be a public health decision and unfortunately, we're even seeing masks become a political symbol and that just feels tragic, because we want people to protect themselves regardless of their political ideology, and if you set it see people giving our protection
political needs, yeah. Ok, so let's assume that there's people listening that go while man, I actually have to think about loneliness- and my human connection the same stakes as I would think about whether I should quit smoking or turn my diet around and then the quest there's a lot of great prescriptive methods for those things. What are some of us in their like fuck. I got take this very seriously. Where on earth do I start ethically question, and so I wrote the book and for people there recognize that loneliness number one can show up in different ways and our life. It keeps I'd just the person sitting alone in a corner during a party manifest is anger and irritability. It can manifest. Is us pulling back and secluding ourselves from others? It can look like depression and sadness. They can look like anxiety,
It can show up in different ways and are alive and in those organs can be confusing for not thinking that loneliness. Maybe a component of the Good NEWS is that there are small things we can do. That can make a big difference, and how can I give you feel so one needs to focus on the consistency of time that we have with other people, just taking fifteen minutes a day to spend with people that we love, whether that video conferencing with them having a phone call with them or is it be writing them a mathematician, a hand? Thinking of you- and I just wanted to check in t how you are that window consistently overtime can really build a powerful lifeline to the animal world, The second thing we can do is focused on the quality of time that we spend with others, and this is especially important for people who might be incredibly busy. You don't have an extra time
to devote to an hour long conversation each day or two to our no out with a friend who they're getting together with her for a meal, but even if you don't spend a single minute more, if you focus on improving the quality of time that you have with people, I can make a huge difference in one of the clearest ways to do that is by reducing distraction when you're talking to other people. I'll admit that I have guilty on multiplication of calling a friend on the phone and then somehow, in the middle of conversation, I find myself swollen my inbox refresh my social media. The question that you came up watching the news. In the background I mean it's, it's crazy. Many of us can interests also become multitask. That's like one of the great meets in these areas that we actually can help. It asked he's. The with science is very clear that we task switch from one thing to another
so simply focusing on somebody else and giving them one of the greatest gift to you can give another human being, which is a gift of your full attention back and be incredibly powerful, and if you think too, a conversation you had with somebody who is fully present was listening deeply to you was sharing openly with you. You know that five minutes of quality conversational impact can be so much better than thirty. Minutes of distress
The conversation- that's a second thing peoples into this. A third thing that I recognized in the writing of this both its her prize me and that always the service as a powerful antidote to loneliness. It turns out that when we are chronically lonely, a couple of countering intuitive things happen to us. So one is that our threat level shift up. So we start to perceive things around us as a thread, whereas they may not be. The second that happens is our focus. Shifting were because we're feeling unsafe were feeling under threat, and the third it happens to us, is that are self esteem sort see rode over time as we start to believe that the reason we're lonely must be that we're not likeable origin or broken in some way, and all these constitute a downward spiral, because the less self esteem I have the harder it is for me to reach out to other people the more threatened knife.
The more I'm focus and myself a heredity actually makes it for other people to have a meaningful interact with me, but services powerful, because a short circuits these patterns, it shifts the focus from me to some one else in the context of a positive interaction, but it also reaffirms for me that I have value to bring I to the world and an actual good. The last thing I would share are there so many things that I learned from the beautiful stories that enable average have included the book that I think are powerful in addressing loneliness but the last year we share is also a counter intuitive one, and that's that solitude is actually an important part of the solution to loneliness and I'll. Explain why? So solitude is time that you spend long, that's joyful, that's peaceful, that's, replenishing and solitude is important because it it's in moments of solitude. The we allow the noise around us to settle.
It's where we allow ourselves to reflect on what's happening, our life where we re centre and we ground ourselves and we knew approach somebody else from a place of grounded the the conversations are usually better. You are able to listen more clearly then you're able to show up more clearly as yourself as opposed to trying to be somebody else. They turn out those entering moments, a solitude. They don't have to be seven day. Retreats that you take away from your family are those that works for you. You should absolutely do it, but we can find moments of solitude in just a few minutes of time that we take to set out on our stoop and feel the wind against her face or take a short walk in nature. It can be a few minutes. We take to remember three things that were grateful. Or whether we take to meditate or to pray. These are all simple small things that can have an immeasurable difference. I learned
actually years ago? for my nephew biology teacher, told me about the kid me in medical school She was an amazing amazing woman. She was a mother, she was an administrator. She was a doktor. She was a teacher. She'd seem to do everything, but her life was really crazy and was inquiry stressful and she wanted to meditate everyday, but she didn't time, but you need to do thing is that under herself, so what she would do is before she walked into a patient's room and which wash your hands. You just turn the warm water on and let them water run over her hands for twenty seconds and during that time she would just think about all the things that she was grateful for the opportunity to teach a medical student that morning the chance to be a part of someone's healing in that moment, and then she would walk into the patient's room feeling a bit more
a bit more centre. That became her meditation and bills. Micro doses of gratitude and Micro produced is the solitude can be exported a powerful and grounding us and when we approach other people from that standpoint, you're really strengthens our human connections, the lesson to me that came out of that about Learning- was that the secrets of connecting with other people start to have connecting with ourselves at those moments of of grounded said, a matter a lot, and if I think about my own the last few years, I realized that I have so often approached other people in way I've killed her myself, you're being really frazzle being completed I get overwhelmed with such a thousand. Things are going through my head and I can even focusing on conversation. You know I can be the kind of thing No one can be a computer husband. I wanna be make conversation. I got a pause, I added is take a deep. Rather let that noise at all and that's all
to do in the modern world with so much is coming out ass right, you been used to our social media feeds and its especially hard now during a pandemic, and were also scared. About what's happening there. So much uncertainty around us, but it makes that solitude. All the more important makes the human cannon although we know we usually need analyze. All the more important right now
Listen, there's been such a pleasure talking you, we really could a covered any one of those topics for another few hours. I really urge people to read your book together, the healing power of human connection in a sometimes lonely world, because in a hopefully with the help of you and in another people, this will get prioritized on the same level with these other things were all quite aware of, and I really do hope we're heading in a direction where we do value that in prioritize it because I think, as you point out, the foundation upon which so much is built. On top of that's a true and the last that I keep coming back to that- and this is, I can't help they think of the fact that so much of it transformation we're talking about here in building a people centred life and its peoples and our world is not an effort to try.
Farmers into something. We're not is a return to Hawaii intrinsically are we were designed to be connected to each other? We evolve over thousands of years, but in recent years we have allowed that too to weaken and to deteriorate. We, the latter's hotter drift, further and further away from other people like because our circumstances have changed so rapidly that we're just starting to understand what the consequences are of the new technology, new mobility and shift and culture that we ve been experiencing. But if I had a simple creta to put to this book, it would just be.
Rewards would be put people first heading. We approach our life with their Quito in mind. We need different decisions about where we put our time and attention and energy. If your manager- and you ask the question, how would have put people first in the workplace and you make different decisions and decided to some kind of work? Environment. Same is true in schools. Saying is true, even in public policy, if we gas was it look like to have an education policy, transportation policy, housing policy to put people first, we rightly different conclusions and approaches looking at financial outcomes and the biggest coup that I take. This matters is from those patients who I've had a privilege
spending time within the final moments of their life, and I think about what they talked about and to a t they talked about was not the promotions they received or how big your bank account was for her pocket They were in her main use articles. They had written about them. They talked about where relationships of people they loved people, they wished. It spend more time with the people, were broken their heart and are the final moments of our life. It's our relationships to rise to the top. Let him he's a clear signal that it's what matters to us, but we don't have to wait until the end of our lives to start putting people first. We can do that right now and in doing so. We agreed that kind of world the kind of generous kind compassionate world and our children's richly deserve. Thank you. So much doctor, I'm on the verge of rum, crying out
yeah yeah yeah we'd, like you a lot, I hope you ll write another book, so you'll have a reason to talk to us, the air and you're not done yet our. He knows. What's the combat I am always happy to chat. Ok, he won random thing. I was in a suggest YAP. I dont know if this is appropriate or not, we live on less than a month ago I was reading there. Do you ve been recording, is podcast where you're talking about Relationships and how hard it is to me in a meet a guy here, and I think I have somebody I want to set you up with if your game, for oh, please, I would love there. Oh my
Is it Morocco bomb like I'm? A number of you know anything occur the wrath of my fellow bomber anybody else. They may be opening up. We don't know where their that's great. I would love it. I decide. Hobby is a match maker started some years ago and dumb there's this guy. I was thinking about when I was learning about your story. Monica he's enemies I hear he's indian he's a doctor, he's probably thought all really. Nice is a very social justice. Highlighted person by ashen, about advocacy, were in community service to the dear friend, is really good guy. But I wanted a floated out their yeah you're open the meeting folks than there was gonna go find. I would how I little I love this. This is great yeah he's gonna have the browser direction warning we is it's my daughter
so I'll have to wrestle at one point the backyard we could set of his screening energy. Relax, we're here. Thank you for thinking of me over. I well doktor, Marthy, b be saved. Thank you. So much for all your work and service to the country and to us at large, can we talk to again yeah, I'm the converted is, I guess, take our say, safe and open touch, bye, bye, and now my favorite part of the show the fact check, with my soul, made Monica Batman back pay back Did you call your dad and ask him out a pronounced? The last name was he won the people? I think I did as it pretty regular occurrence, for we interviewed him. I did ass my dad. He doesn't always give us Definitive answers were looking for them times. The th.
In certain indian languages, is pronounced just with no I'm wrong a camera target, it's the opposite. So sometimes, when there's just a t, it's pronounced ie eight wow so like there was a girl in my high school, her name was- am refer, but no age it most people pronounced it. Rita sure come out of it was spout. Am I T really proud. I regret that I am I right as Polly what you would have called her and she was really great power. Your neighbor, who we love- and I probably too I talked to parliament- than any neighbour of ever happening here. Right, like an hour, is backyard talking to him. He's a retired professor YAP in a physicist which I found a because he's also gotta masters in like economics or something these appalling mouth yeah. I happen dimension. I was reading the Oppenheimer, but
and he's like that's, not the guy, this is the guy. You know this is another thing we talk to. Our recently is like what I love about is they have is they have an opinion or the ones I've met. They have an opinion and they'll stand by it. I love it. So you are part in the. Yeah I'll leave. Ronnie. At any rate, I feel like I'm surrounded by an inert in about unless the Indians are way more populous country than I ever gave a credit for. I just feel like I've met in hung out with in conversed with way more Indians in the last five years than ever before, and not the stereotype, but so far love my interactions. Ere. I think it speak. As of me, ok, I think, both by later mine, half the little maid or mine off a little frequency illusion. Little bit, I think
just now we may be like the pirate. Kindly, I think, because you like me, you kind of like already like Pary, you, like you like done some connecting link the indian people because of me, that's true. Also new party, before you oh yeah Did you guys talk here? We do you, dare we ever since the first time I met him clean I chap in so I think what you what's also at play is that I am both attractive, intelligent people and even more selfishly. I want the approval of intelligent being aware, shore and so parties very intelligent, yeah professors. I want him to think I smart and in most the Indians have met. They follow the same thing I really like when I want your dad, I'm just like I'm swimming as fast as I can. I not running water so fast trying to get him to think I'm smart like here. I now will be ok.
So it makes me so engaged with him. You talk to my dad. He cut my ma my brother little bed so relieved. These are just three people are connected to me that have increased to your number. A la yeah, big, don't be I'm in the show, and then this show ya mean yeah. Generally, we intervene on the shore very smart, so I very much want their approval. I've got a lot to prove. I can't wait to meet a dumb, ass indian, I think, have talked about a year before, but An errand tyrrell, not err weekly, there are three earns: go watch, Tyrrell, Weekly Tyrrell was so comfortable plain the idiot and ice how much it got him out of in high school and even at work as we worked other than he was drastically smarter than everyone who thought was dumb awry knows I first just enamored with the strategy. The ads for dinner
W blown away at the notion that he can live with people thinking these dumb That's, not a hang up for him he's. I really think I'm a domains, but I did. I don't do things and I want to do We have had a separate conversation. Me and you and some other friends, like our friend, Laura a bow. Meeting people to think or smart, yes started from the reality showing Netflix too hot for two had to hand and no one girl was broadcasting has done. She was all the time we can you imagine yes, did you romantic partner would think you're domino and drive me crazy. That would I couldn't be with somebody those damn I now, but it's so interesting, because Laura felt the same way strongly and honours dinner just in it- and I down, I mean it's weird because I couldn't have him think I'm dumb right
but I don't know that I need him to think. I'm smart girl and I think it's I mean because no use. My right right right right, unlike growing up being smart, definitely was important to my parents but not in a way that lake yea you're getting good grades was just like it was assumed. They're gonna was met. It was not us or a commonplace c. I a husband, was just talking about that episode, a patriot Oh really, your watch too. Yesterday and walls workin out in he. He was showing clips of like white parents celebrate in something, and he said you see that asian parents, that's called celebrating an account, something like that, I know that I had spent a year that asian variances do not give the compliments or parade in the streets when you guys do something. I know that you should have seen my
at this stage championship ah Lang, God embarrassing that how are you so embarrassed somewheres and he was like jumping. I mean had all like this gear on like spirit where, all my god, I think I've told you that it would be there would be Sophie's choice for me if I were in the audience who I was gonna. Look at you your father, because man would it be fun to watch him celebrate with a bunch of gear on women's cheerily. A number of very worrying like up the upon bombs is now. I use hang Anna we're in Article nine, I think about it. There is really sweet, though, on sleep. I think, because he's not you like what is this world and we adjust accomplish this thing. He had no connection to. I think it felt like oh she's, unlike the academic academics, was not expecting you to be a state state champion
level, not at all guaranteed. Why I had that yesterday. I have yet to have the experience with Lincoln or Delta, and this is Eagle maniacal button on being honest near they haven't, exhibited a skill. I can't traced either christen awry yeah they well Book but Lincoln did to paint Oh, I know there are major Ross kid in. I was literally like. Oh you ever talent. Neither of us have no Christians, really good she's gonna be harder, tat good! You gonna demented I don't know she. She is right, a good at drawing an art and seven. I think lorry persons MA is also really good a that of so I do think that is where that come. From protein, was already allow the grounding in it was on the in that's what why Eric and we're talking about it? Actually, because they were all the kids
means were lined up grass. It was pretty staggering. The difference between Lincoln's and everyone else's, it would take almost like not abstract pressure yeah like Mona a hot, not clear lines but variant Hence, in all my very beautiful, beautiful yeah I was, I was very impressed as well. I will I look down like couldn't. Do it you're on it, didn't make that painting and I'm forty five are you drunk Two, I'm ok in our way unjust, creative, I'm not good at it. It is the things I'm writing the bubbles or interest the people are dead, they're gonna kill, you really likes on the back for their detailed see their back there. But That is interesting. I would it was really exciting its way more exciting to see your kids do. Something unexpectedly like expect our kids, to be mildly funny and broadly, ok, at acting right. But this thing I was like well
now we're going towards a motorcycle like a boss, but am I can, of course, you don't know what you're impressed by that year, yeah. But I'm like I understand why she's good at it, because I was always good at bicycling. Instead he's a lot of talents, he will it as I, just u finds the booze and drink boots on Billina of we. The trauma component will be absent in only the genetic component will be there and only on health. It's true: your parents have any opinion about drinking to give they ever monitored, you're drinking or asked you. If you do, you think you drink too much or not enough room. Yes, some those my mom well coup general during right every now, and then she get like a mixed drank it Austrians tickly, maybe you lips and then show field drunken but my dad rings a law, so he never says anything
but not a lot, a lot. The way you do, which is he drinks often, but he doesn't get hammered, that's trail I've never seen. You hammered to my great disappointment. I'd love to see you incoherent tribune and stuff. I kept a little better. Here I would have been more drunk. Then you knew Viewed line is probably I was drunk last night oh mom, cause. I ordered these Amazing drinks that justice friend bar tender friend is making the new term delivered yeah, they're like made, or the Childer Leona Coolers thing called therein like like a cool bottle, but its highly concentrated sue. You put it with ice and show you now you'll tipsy by yourself, Nor was it by Miss, oppose with Lord you let her in on it. Or do you have your guard ups around her as well? Do now drunk you know,
look up Maria did sneak arm. I haven't really been drunken. Long time it did sneak up on me. And dumb do you think she observed that you're. I wonder by then Matt came over and you all fogged witches I guess I wouldn't normally anyway, but I do think today's, like. I wonder if I should, It asked Laura. I was like talking his head off sure that I was a man I woke up every morning for a decade and there I replay every conversation I could You know me sober sober, I'm too much like sober one in five knights of conversations. I gonna have to call someone and apologise in that sober
yeah why large and they re all Vienna Jesus, but the fear that he or when you wake up new. I see I said. Oh, I remember seeing a mat oasis frightening when you woke up in the morning after these experiences, and did you I feel like oh, I said things you're lying there are. I have theories when I'm drunk that I dont have sober differently when I'm drearily yeah I don't have that. I think I'm just saying what I want say very openly. I think that's common would be borne with drinking, like only appeals. Is it like a breakdown social barriers right now, the at things and allows you to be honest, herb, but that's again like you not needing to be smart. I've never needed provocation to be. I am
I always say what I want to say so, like it doesn't encouraged me to say more. There I just will get on balance that in the I'm like it just like. I can confirm this. You know I regularly wake up in the middle of the night, and I'm obsessing about some problem in the problem is so huge in my mind in the middle of the night, and I believe and then you wake up in the morning and like that's, not even a big problem like can, I gotta do explains in its over. In that way, I think when I'm drunk, I could make a mountain out of nothing. You know Brian I, who never fought sober, would have these fucking fights that we're just so stupid and pointless. Yeah Florina transcript. I don't know what I'd do if he was saying here, but she was gone ten year set out that everyone I was with also broadly was going through what they said. Yes, but the best when I go home to see her family over the holidays goes like you have now, there's someplace the alcohol would probably bolster my confidence, but you have this.
Presenting self your presenting two parents of a girlfriend YAP and once I get shit face, I think like this. You can see my body see up in the morning. Maybe a little girl you you so you may leave me now boy, ok, we're back! There's! Not very many facts obviously knows only another. Every fact any knows a lot of emotional faxes. Irian touch with their has really get it. The said here the way would talk to his boy. He is sensitive saying, though its grey that he has won the wonder hook you over the year we haven't hasn't happened earlier. We should allow attackers ever p that's true, I would be too
He d TBD out the really quick. I'm sorry, I'm sorry of Bruno just talks regularly about this huge hard. All he had to overcome even ever use out of the closet. The notion of being in public in holding hands and kissing, where a whole another heard all yap, and I think that the notion of you and in. Indian gentlemen, holding hands and kissing and public. I think, could be this. Very bizarre breakthrough for you yeah we, I mean look it's coming at a good time, because I'm doing a lot of soul searching a bow. My duty, yeah yeah aware how I built my identity and yeah. At one point I would never be said yes to that are, I would have said yes,
and been like wine regions are not doing that. Yeah ends. I don't. I don't feel bad. Let's go be. I think it's good, but his boy is his little boy who he was saying is sensitive. I just, I think so good that he has vac his model cause. It worked out like his sensitivity, worked out are you now in such a beautiful way and of success? for weighing he now like more modeling of that type of personality is maybe holds. It is interesting still even with tons of broad When I hear men acknowledge their boys are sensitive, It always is in this very kind of specific way war, which is almost like you can tell they pray I like to keep that hidden, but they're not going to like it
choice. It's not just like on my daughter's idea. Yeah, it's a vulnerable thing too. It is that's true, and I think I think all boys are, since Neither to beat out of us poor boys Ok, so there was a little bit of a conversation about liberty and food- and unlike should we beam federally putting it. Tax on why I'm saying, there's Blake of Sugar Tax or shatterer MAR brought that up the other day. I was like thinking about that, but I watched it like you just can't do that in this country. Cause there's so much emphasis on this idea of liberty, We could do it effortlessly if we weren't strata lean all these different ideal, so
It is very easy to certain not have as sugar tax and not care about it. If we did not absorbed the cause of someone else's medical decision right, that's word starts getting right tricky is, like you know, should someone have the right, which would be their liberty to smoke cigarettes and give themselves and ill that is going to cause five hundred thousand hours. When it's all said and done is that's when your liberty is in full Jeanne on someone else's liberty? If we have assessed Well, we're gonna take care of each other, which we are so I it is. It's only complex because we're doing both things at once. We want liberty and we want equality in all these things. Ere it it's kind of like the stock market, it's like if we really had lived. De and not a socialist leaning, government the near we wouldn't let all those financial institutions absolutely collapse into thou
as they were all in route to collapse in the attic all would of air, and it would have decimate the whole economy air. So it's interesting. Does investors and people on finance they want laissez faire stay the fuck out of it. Let the market regulate itself by we also admit we can't let the market regulation over the disease is by handful, be bored completely fuck over the entire country. So they're just endless in, and people have to have patience. Warm and people can not subscribe to a binary things were not pursuing a binary path, so you think he'd be for a shiver tax, Falk, casino economy, em all about liberty in some in some debate here? But you also know sugars, the horrible free the. I personally think it, Sir poison yeah. Now I think people are gonna be allowed each year. I can. I agree we just have to it
at another way. I dont believe in legislating that kind of stuff, but I do believe investing heavily in an education approach should try to get you know yet. Stir and what he was saying was people make better choices if better options or their sight when they go to the grocery store. If there is like a bunch of organic produce, that's accessible and cheap, they'll pick that Riley just pick the other thing, because its chief marine user inconvenient yeah. So if we can raise some of those other standards than they do now, good thing, we got a like aimed towards liberty, with the acknowledgement that we have to still try to brainwash people into doing there. We got a lotta muscle behind the night.
Eleven boat rescue. He told us about that. Was such an interesting store, I'd, never more than leave at what he was saying. I know it is it's the largest maritime rescue in history. That's crazy. I know those stories gave me how near and I like that we too also his mainly this action has just recall. In good parts. The points he his story about, the guy who won the lottery and then was miserable law and had all these health issues. It was- related it somewhat. It's funny like when I challenge that fairytale on here, I feel like someone could interpret that is me, threatening the very existence of America like by saying money, isn't the thing you thought it would be much so triggering in so many ways like oh shit dude will trust you you're allowed to go, get it on
doesn't right. I guess that's for me to say: oh then just give it all up, but also the fantasy that I had as someone broke. Just wasn't that and I feel like I want everyone to know that yeah Don't think it's worth killing yourself for any at! I recognise that it threatens the whole thing. The whole cap, Liz individual rights liberty, all these things- are to protect the one person that really could elevate from the lowest strata to the highest strata has that happens one in a thousand times we protected at the cost of another system that you can't get his big of a reward, but way more people are in looted yeah, but there are all those studies of it dies Greece, your happiness up to a level, you know number it'll Yan twenty six thousand years and seventy five and I can, I think it keeps changing
somewhere between two hundred and two hundred thousand. Yes, sir. Oh, no one saying yeah just sit around and door or in any money like it does make your life much easier up to appoint Van begin to this lottery story and in fact, if I leave the Gladwell book it like plateaus for quite a while, actually yeah so like from whatever the numbers. I say one. Seventy six then plateaus too, like three million a year, something I'll interest, and then it starts going down your life actually measurably, worse yeah, you can get any one to believe that I mean I'd, I believe it, but I can see how its, however, that your mother, Noirtier I'll, tell you I'll be the exception to that rule, but even you you're experiencing it in front of all of our eyes, which is fascinating, which is like
When we met what you made verses, what you make now you had to have had a fantasy of what it would feel like worse now. I can't imagine its fulfilling see now. It's like made sums dove easier in the story telling of your life feels better cause. You ve accomplished something, but that Howard, our minute to minute joy. It hasn't really, the only thing it does for me. Is bring safety, and that feels good safety feels good to me. Knowing I have that money in case something happens or by parents need something you know I don't know like, for whatever reason I just like. Knowing that there This is the reason I know its safety is because I bought a house and so a lot of money.
Gone that I don't feel that I have that safety anymore. I like knowing that there's money in the bank, Yo Yo, Yo Yo sitting, and so the house has put that safety. In flux a little bit, and I don't like it. I dont like that feeling I've had a lot of moments of this was a mistake. I should of justs Ikey been able to keep in the bank and you now pay for my apartment every month. About is fine. That would have been fine. Also. I know it's like it's a good investment for money into a home. All that's true, so I can rationalize it out, but I have had a lot of moments and spying. It full of fear and regret, ok, so he says science says we can't multitask so that I did watch this lecture on it and yes or short term working memory has very small capacity. It can only hold between two and four pieces of working info, I'm so then you start suffering cod
If overload and things that come in workforce other things to leave, so Yazzi really can really multitasking at your giving everything you're all there used to be this kind colloquial knowledge that women could multitask better than men gave. You ever heard this and Chris used to tell me that all the time In my mind, I was like normal She knew you're just doing three job, poorly right, I'm out of one good than one good yeah and I was always kind of Gulliver. Now it's really been debunked which it has been made, but some There are clearly better at it than others, I'm a terrible, multitask her. I can see why evolution narrowly though you would think women would be better, the eggs, are nursing a kid and plaguing largely for survival. They could have to be a little bit better at a year in a hunter needs like tunnel vision, YAP exact, singular focus, but it doesn't really seem like that.
No one is one of the definitions of intelligence. I heard in college, which I really liked was that, like it your to measure the iq of some of the great scientist there might be differences, but that the real hallmark of Super Intelligence, like Isaac Newton, was that he could lock out the whole world in focus kind of definitely on some single problem, yeah There's all these maybe they're apocryphal, but there's all these stories of him mean asked a question like he had a pupil. Ask him a question and then he gave the answer in the pupil. Wasn't there and it was like it a year and a half later o MIKE then there's these stories of Benjamin Franklin. When writing me declaration dependency forgot to e there's. All these, like Einstein, would forget to each of these. We would for to eat and stuff. They give seems a little city, ah, maybe they all had a little version of that year.
There's no way you can just be world class, historically brilliant and not pay some nine fresh air pressure, in your world class genius in Yellow bummed out that your social skills are as good as everyone else's dont be greedy? Well, yeah. Ok, so I'm back to thinking Dave chapels as or that Michael Jordan, organic observer. Yeah. Well, that's what kind of sparked by yeah I thought it was fantastic and I love that he he did it and they like put it out like the next day, and he said normally, I wouldn't put out something this unpolished that, for any one of you has an odd stand up, works they go around and they tried different jokes. Eighty different ways and I slowly cut together a forty five minutes routine routines. Sometimes it's like years of of being on the road and testing out material but or in co read so he hasn't been doing anything and
I thought it was fantastic. I it's not funny at all, which I also very much appreciated. He is. A genius and that he's so funny, but every one of his specials witches were I'm getting to her. Why are we watched so many this weekend? there's so poignant. I mean you are always left with a real a new thought on a whole new perspective on, unlike in just slow down he's really speaking to something they like. The one thing was built on a lie like that. The woman lie, but the boy had blown right, remember language from one of his special dissolved. The movement that started when they lynched a young black man, sir? hitting on a white woman yeah, and then he is discovered that she was lying gap in that on her dead, but she bade she said she was lying and then
he was saying, trot may be the leaders gives us all yeah yeah he brings. All back in such a poignant way, but with this because I was also shore yeah. It is not funny it all. He doesn't do that, but he just does the poignant thing and any kind of talking stuff allow me in here. I don't like a lot of it's the first how to fly. I think I am like did a instagram thing last week or something saying like a lion the ten year, I need his opinion, like, as I know, I'm missing something that such a great feeling I used gonna have that not to the degree but stern, like quite often I'd be on the fence about something to me, like I'm, really excited to hear his point of view cause its generally get me. Some might think about new. I bet- Baghdad was opening his you. You did pose bad and I had also been thinking it and then he busily
opens with saying: I don't want to have to be the high idle, but not I don't want to. I don't have to you guys are taking the reins. I trust you you're doing a great job. He said. You guys are great drivers. The idea of such a genius he's a genius and then circling backed what you were saying. Genius comes with a little something you know when he left fifty million dollars Twenty million dollar deal, maybe we're not entitled to it, but he is honest and he such a brilliant point of view. I do an explanation I find myself like I mean there is more than just he walked away. Clearly there was some crisis of car just some guy terms with who we were like yeah, because I and even think I guess who's his last special where he returned,
about. I lost it all in I forget about that period where he had just gone away forever. Laugh in you didn't know, views ever going to come back and he kind it was on the outside again. Looking, then, what everyone thought he was crazy that and I will end he might have had a mental breakdown that he's not telling us about. A lot of people said Guess that's what I was gonna say is. Maybe the flip side to his genius is like it's a waterway paranoia or who knows by a when he came back. He went on Oprah, it was talking about and he was like, not really able to say super clearly. What happen other than a he's like referenced a few times times. You want to ever go period. Rent is South Africa yeah, but Hugh. He reference that he was doing a sketch where he was in black face and
He heard a laugh in the crew liking open more laughing, normally in the key heard as specific laugh or he thought That is the wrong side. Who now it some people could take this as an he fell. Morally uncomfortable with that. This is a problem like this is Stearns problem in Baku. He talks about away more openly the storm, but probably would tell these stories about, like going to a gas station and then some dubious bubble, buoy insight, Gregor Great and then obsolete an end bombs and he's like a policy and by any say, oh none that you guys got this wrong. You're, not yeah, you're, taking away the wrong part of this year. Fine lives. It's a great big ethical question, because our you responsible for people's misinterpretation of your mouth
I mean I'm inclined to say no just in general by today, one way or another, but I don't think you're responsible. But if you are the person and you have high moral standards, are going to feel the rhythm the ability of your putting more weight on one side of the scale. That's actually more people are getting it wrong long and finding it to be fuel yeah there is a responsibility when you're public person and you're making statements- and you know how they could be perceived. That's especially tricking comedy, obviously, because our jokes about laughing in its was becoming dangerous about it. Yeah. I think that was part of this. He gave a speech Alan University, where his great grandfather worked in life is a building named after his great grandfather, and I guess they like reading the building, and so he gave a speech there for the students- and I watched that and in that speech talks about I'm not really known for the thing I d,
it. I mainly known for the thing I didn't do likewise season. Yeah I'd like to have fifty million dollars and he goes into this whole thing about ethics and how right now er sort of living in a time where weave discarded, good and bad and replace it with better and worse, and he he's like no, There's there is good and bad anyway. Then he ends it by saying you walk over fifty million dollars and then last year he signed a deal for sixty million and so I came back around like you- did the right thing and it paid off. In general, I think I agree with a principle which is, if you're telling the truth. Your client like, if you tell the truth in people- weapon eyes that or or or bastardize some way. I don't think you can be held responsible of your doing the truth. I nobody again
it's not about being responsible, sunlight, Vinos, someone's gonna, put you up on the core issues, how you walk around and then lifelike dear you Marianna were better or worse exactly our this in my own short career, which was there's a scene and hit and run racism that have night for us, and I say no natures is for fags. It's got cubic inches, but I do that solely to then have the six minutes conversation that comes after it. Chris Ngos, you can't use that word and might not swear word for blank and she basically educate me in the scene. Yeah em, like it had a purpose, yeah yeah but I have had, as you might imagine, people in life say nighters is facts or my here. They didn't
you didn't get it? We understand that the whole point six men had seen afterwards, where I learn that that's not cool anyway, he's the greatest that, what's funny you, maybe he could even this causes inside of it is. He was destined to do something much more profound Chapelle show in his on his art, wasn't really delivering what he was capable of yeah. So all those other things aside, it might feel like all those things but but the real inferno in him was. I have something I could do us. Maybe, and it's not this air. It worked out for everyone. We love. Lab horizon back eventually, love. You will have your son, we love the signal
Transcript generated on 2020-06-18.