« Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

We are supported by... Sheryl Sandberg

2021-09-01 | 🔗
We Are Supported By, hosted by Kristen Bell and Monica Padman is a 10 episode limited series podcast. Each episode deep dives with a woman who has put a crack in the glass ceiling. Episode 10: Sheryl Sandberg
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Its episode. Ten, it's episode. Ten, we did a year, I'm proud of you. ambrosch Ngos. So fine, we're not done guys were not done. Don't worry, yeah we're gonna brainstorm and do more to brainstorm. People seem to like it. You think we got a pretty spectacular, tat, because we're we're trying to represent all sorts of fields rightly, whether as to visa or known economies, store talk, show host or an influence or an influence or or of athletes, and then the business world we were like who, whose number one who live maybe even prior to getting into business, served as chief of staff for like a U S, secretary of Treasury or water triggers are so many, so many women who this tight, all who is like a current c o o, like a of a major foundation. That's helping women and we were like. Oh, I guess we com, Charles him,
I guess we do, and I guess she said yes, there are so many I respect about this woman and how candidly she talks about what it means to be a woman and her rise up, and we talk about out of it in the episode, but one thing we did not mention that I definitely want to mention is that she is it had so many amazing standards and practices where she works. Not only did she helped with thy paternity, Even maternity leave cause those things were really really important, but she was one leaders that decided not to have their regular half yearly reviews because she thought it was hypocritical to tell employees to focus on their personal life during covered, which they were sincere about and then also expect them to perform at a hundred and ten percent. She also led the creation of domestic violence leave. I know we Talk about that in this, which is a bit of a bummer, but its huge, I mean D. stick violence, leave nobody talks about that, but she made it so that you can have paid time off if you become a victim of them,
violence or if they have to help, take care of a family member whose a victim of domestic violence, home port, like the workload at home, is acknowledging and making massive strides for people to be more nurturing at home and also succeed in the workplace. We lover she was perfect and were really grateful to all of our guests. this season. We do have one more episode for you after this next week. That's it is surprise, a little different and really fun, so we are supported by sheriff back in baking
the gun you baby there. You are mine, a good thank you for joining us. We requested it and also christen, unlike it actual fan. I watched Veronica Mars. I've watched every episode of the good place with my kids. That makes me so happy did we meet at that reading of your book. When there was a movies script written about your book. I do the reading, with friendly wit for an a bunch of other great people, but I couldn't remember it. Were there I think I ve knew that was happening but, like I, don't think anyone invited me. That's they were just like give us the rights to your bug. We're gonna do a bunch of stuff with it and you're in
dunno race or to build a most like. No, I mean I'm not sure I given the Marines try book. I think they were trying to get the right. I was the scheme- and I didn't even know ass Well- was a great scrapped moping. It was the woman now Scoville who wrote me and with me really wanted to do something, and I wanted it done, only if it was done correctly and that's really hard to do so. Thank you for being part of that. That is awesome, I love your story. It's really nice to meet you really nice to meet you to. Thank you. We are so pleased to have you so lean in what we just spoke about: Kristen, stealing the rights two year but clear and putting on a whole production of what was the impetus for that book, I saw Kristen one of the things you wrote. You said you weren't going to be silent anymore about depression. I think that was my and was silent anymore, that I'm a woman. So I turned fifty two this weekend happy Birthday day when I came into the workforce I dont gender,
wasn't an issue I kind of looked around me. It was our man, but I figured had had time for our generation to get there and then the longer. I stayed in the workforce and why I realized it was an issue in every job. I whether it was the government or Silicon Valley. You felt, like you really needed to fit in. I needed to fitted meant you did not talk about getting pregnant, You were having a child's having other responsibility is the fact that, like men interrupted you and they didn't interrupt other man. The fact that your ideas, Connachar Gettin, taken- and so I gave this TED talk on women and I took a state and I just said there are too few women leaders and sure some of the reasons why and then Weenen was the continuation of that journey. For me, where I believed we needed to actually talk about this and acknowledge that it just wasn't going not well and it still not violence. It's funny re, because a lot of people agree on it, even man that I know and love or like yeah, of course, like we want uplift,
when two and then in my head, I'm going, then why are you interrupting everyone like it's almost like a habitual practice, yeah, I think everyone wants to make it better, but they don't realize that there are often all of us part of the issue. The deep cultural stereotypes he has on women, and men are very different, walk into any playground. This weekend in away or wherever you are go up to some little girl who's been called bossy, and you can say that little girls not bossy that little girl has executive leadership, skills and that's funny because humor goes against type right say it is a male that little Why has executive leadership skills? There's no humor yeah right. Take it at face value, because to this day it is still funny that a little girl has executive leadership skills. I'm you think about your industry. If you are a woman and you are working a job and you have
there's like drama in your life in Hollywood, about that there's, nothing like a guy character who has like a job and kids and that's the drama that saw trauma. That's normal rate orbit is it's like a sick. Come words like the big goofy thing of a dad with a baby Bjorn on his chest. Rehab because, like the I'm died, we're like not just because he's taking on responsibility, but because he had to take on the responsibility was forced to arrive at that, the typical way that it would be written literally had so many men say to me. I was babysitting this weekend. No Monica so close to their family, like we do everything together and she's my husband s best friend and she's, the aunt to our little girls, and it's so funny because any time any of the bombs are like well, can you baby sit the kids I got here Monica under her breath? Go it's not baby sitting of their own children like I can't I've become accustomed to accepting that, but by having a girlfriend with, I will say it again:
laughable, strong leadership skills sitting here next to me ass. She repeats lot of Montrose in my ear that, unlike oh yeah, that is my standard, Somehow I've just become accustomed to treating it, and so now I will say it out loud and thankfully, the husbands in our pod of trained themselves out of it. But now we just laugh about the fact that any time we want to have a girl's night, we know for a fact the dad's are texting about which grandma is gonna drive up from Diego to watch the kids because they feel like they should. Deserve a man's night too, and it's like will you do, but on a different night, it's so funny. The cultural stereotypes run, deepen here's. What they are women are supposed to be nurturing. Take care of other people. Manners to be leaders. Men are supposed to be a sort of. So when anyone crosses those gender stereotypes, it's not well accepted. We don't tell boys not to cry. We say man up. We tell girls, they're bossy, we don't Cobb boys passing through a mean hers and those with those cultural action.
Patients going against type, I'm very begin to framing and, like you just said that my instinct was going yeah, but don't you want a leadership role in the home and don't you want someone to care for the employees and nurture the environment around them like there? Actually, both skills sets are incurred, credibly important in workplaces and in home life, so why can't we switch them that easily, because Amy polarization pointing this out for years that on a red card when she was married to will our net, she was getting all these questions like wow howdy, a balanced said having two kids and she. Is so sassy and wonderful. She go, you know. What's so funny, have you ever ass? My husband, I question because it's just not our instinct to do it. We put out the subconscious expectation that guys don't have to be, as involved simply waste How can we dont even ask them how their involved or how they balance it? No that's exactly right when I've been in it, over the years. I am asked a question all the time. How do you do it out and have always had the same thing? I said I'm not answering out unless you ass, the last male business executive
they are viewed in their like. Oh no, I haven't my great show me yeahs, send me the article where you asked at first in any and then only answer, but you exactly right that what we want is both those traits in both places. We want to expect kindness loving and nurturing from men, and we want to expect leadership from women just like we do the opposite, gender. We just had Reese Witherspoon on this podcast as our last guest, and I never ever ever do this. But I did look at the comments and there was one so at the very very beginning of the episode for like forty five, against tax, is on it. He steps in and he is like Hey areas like he was so excited he was so excited. We haven't had her arm, chair and he's like jealous and yours I'm going out on such a huge bad and then he started like gondola your question and I was like ok, ok, stepping tell us a little bit body, then, whatever weak wrap it up, and then there is the comment that like
Monica. Why do you always tear Dax down? And I was like Nano, were were used to giving men the microphones rolling a woman asks for it back. That's not mean that's just her asking for it back and by the way this is you I'll show you have every right. I was probably a little more like look at my husband acuity? Is he like luxuries? Witherspoon, he stepped but again as the voice of reason and an executive leader girl. In my life, like you, are a hundred percent in the right. I wasn't like hey, you need to stop. Your crossing line is just like a guy like time's up, spat upon your time, and it was a woman who set it right and left the gender if he had interrupted you if it's always does know. I'm just getting everyone expects it's not interrupting when it's a man and look what your point you're making about women doing. It is just as important. I hear people say this all the time it's not sexist. It was said by a woman or the turns out. These gender stereotypes run deep,
women and men you're, just because a woman does it doesn't mean it starts access. It's the same gender stereotypes, female teachers call their kindergarten, girls, bossy, yeah, that's kinda! Very teachers are women. Let's cancel that right. Now we just decided it's cancelled. We ran up Ban Bossy campaign a long time ago to try to literally tell people not to use that word for girls until they use that word for voice yeah, because its money not the word right, it's how were using it were putting it into a pejorative. Technically, that's great, being bossy means your boss, and there is also the context to the word. It means you should check yourself, because you are in a leadership role right now and dont oversight, there's a lot of responsibility, but good things can come out of awesomeness bad things to come out of bossiness, but it needs to be used for both genders that documentary by Jennifer Newsom called the mask. We live in, incredible and it's all about boys, how we tell them not to cry and light.
I had seen it right around the time that a lot of this cultural conversation was happening and I was dropping my kids off at pre school and I was king about all the things that I was being fat about, men and women, and then I looked at my daughter's three year old, preschool class- and I was like me- aren't necessarily quote the problem like Billy and Una, who are sitting next to my three year old daughter, who are also three billion. Jonah, aren't the problem. The way we are deafening billion Jonah are the problem. We are the problem and it gave me this huge breath of responsibility. We have to make a huge cultural shift in the way that we train everybody, because it's not boys are just the problem, though, and the expectations we have so when it was a friend of yours, no friend of mine and introduced us, we rode a serious for the New Europe.
One of the articles we wrote was about office housework. So it's not just that women do the housework at home, women do the office housework Chiefs of you asked the average group of employees you're in a meeting. Could he thinks taken the notes of the women, it's someone's birthday whose bringing the cupcakes yeah now? What's the problem with that? Well, if you one taking out you- can actively participate enough and here's what's amazing. So when a woman is asked to do a favour in the workplace, if she does it fine expected nothing good happens, but if she doesn't do it, it actually heads her ratings and performance. If a man is act to do a favour in the workplace- and he doesn't do it he's busy it's fine, but if he'd as do it. She actually gets better ratings, more promotions, more success, and so these expectations, have who's gonna. Do the house or in the office are hurting women as well, where women are expected to do
Much more than men and they do it and they do it systematically, and it's part of why women have seven percent of the fortune, five hundred zero jobs that so interesting that you put up the reason it's a problem is because then they can't fully participate in the ways that will make them grow or be seen or have their thoughts heard, unlike like sometimes people like well, that's just the way it is their quiet and, like will know, there's this inherent structure set in place those are the bricks that have to be removed. That's right not just for their own growth, but all the data. We have tells us that the company grows when women grow and leadership positions the company's better off the bottom line is better. The shareholders are happier customers
I dont think telling men to support women in the workplace, because it's the right thing to do is gonna work has worked so far. I think it's better to tell them it's the smart thing to do so. If you're, the ceo and you can work better with half the population, obviously or companies can do better and your exactly right, Kristen, that's what all the data shows, but what, if you're the entry level guy and you can work better with half the population, that's gender race and there were there's all of this additional bias, both for men of color, but particularly women of color. We ve got gender and race and all the intersection already now you're working better with more than half the population jerking outperform from the beginning. So the thing I think we need to explain as your companies can be most As for your teens can be more successful. Your production companies can be more successful. Any you're gonna be more successful, but in order to do that, you need understand the biases and be willing to say them ready. Here's, the biases, we think manner, smarter, sure, the biases on race. You take two identical recipes and you put a white sounding.
A black sounding name on them of the same gender. That's worth fifty percent more callbacks for that first interview, which is equal to eight years of experience that the bias on race. So when women we promote men based on their potential promote women based on what they ve already proven. So my foundation, lean in every year, does the biggest survey of women in the workplace and what we found some Here's a calmer really trying to talk about is what we call the broken run on the ladder, and it's the first time Patient, a manager women are falling behind in that getting to the sea sweet, adding to be the lead director. The lead producer, it's not at the end, were very focused on getting women to the sea, sweet, getting wet, it will be. The fraction of funds were falling off earlier. It sets promotion to manage your first shot at being a leader. That's because then get promoted and given opportunities based on potential. They don't have to have done it before, but if women have to prove it, you can't be
manager until your manager. Someone has to let you take that chance, and so we need to go back to those expectations we have and the ways in which those by seas are so deeply rooted in all of us in women in in men of color and women of color in white women in black women, so that we can figure that out and started much earlier on the press and it's not just the workplace, its every where men or anyone who thinks there supporting women like. Will you explain to us what the double double shift is and why it's important for that to start like at the base level of family that support system yet and look, I think you ve been wonderful Christian, you a pretty open and honest about how hard it was to be a mother during covert- and I think a lot of people have felt that so women work a double shift. Women do more housework and child care in every country in the world, including the United States, is much worse than other countries, but it's pretty bad you're too. That's before carbon. Now you ve covert. Now women are working, a double double shift, the average one
and whose me hate to a man or a partnership. Domestic partnership with kids in a man is doing an extra twenty one hours a week of child care and housework over a man. Twenty one, hour's weakest, half a full time job and wearing a health crisis when the economic crisis, but were also in a gender crisis after a Europe covered Women have lost five point: three million jobs, fifty four percent of the jobs that have lost in the U S, economy have been lost by women and that's because women are dropping out because they could barely do the double shift before and now they have doubled. So all of these inequalities on who does what and it such taken care her children by the way it's taking care of elderly parents. Elderly parents are taken care of not just by daughters, but my daughter's in law. We bear the majority of the work.
of taking care of our in laws as well and in covert I mean it also highlights the pay gap, because in a relationship if they have to make the decision, who's, gonna stay home and home school, the kids or who's gonna be here. I guess it just makes more sense caused add makes the most money. So we don't really have a choice. That's exactly right! The pay gap makes it worse and the assumptions we have we were talking before about people asking men had you. When I think about people coming into the workforce, people will say to women their going immense. Will you really want to be surgeon? Don't you want kids yeah like you couldn't possibly have both in so from the very beginning. Women often holds back because they want kids that are holding back for choice. They don't have. I realize this when I was a young man. Drivers working at Google at the time and a woman came to see me and we were talking about whether or not she should be on the management track, and I was like yes, you'd be great and she was talking
children but she looks really young and I just looked so. I said to my asking: how was your kids just like what kids I said? Well, Are you married was like? Oh? No, no, I'm not married. She didn't even but she was asking all these questions in anticipation, children she didn't have and then what happens? The man puts his foot on the gas peddle. The woman takes her foot off five years later when they're married. That means making more than she has and he's more senior, so he actually has more flexibility, not less so counter intuitively. By keeping your friend the Basque peddled by not leaving before you leave. You get yourself into a position where you can afford childcare, not in every industry, but a lot more men than women. You get yourself in a position where you actually have more flexibility because you're the boss, and that's meeting is getting scheduled based on your time frame, not something you tell her that in that meeting yeah and then that was part of my giving. My original TED talk
meaning that amazing and doing that paternity leave is just as important as I feel like me Finally, we talk about some women get it. I certainly wish it was more. I delivered eleven days after I wrapped house allies. It is very much possible to work when you're pregnant. You can do it, I'm sure you funny, and you want all towards the end, but, like you can do your job, but if your we won given maternity leave and then you're just sort of stock, and your husband can't take any. You must have no choice but to leave the baby at home or take your foot off the gas. No that's right and it becomes uneven, write them. So paternity leave is really important faced we offer equal maternity and paternity leave. We give really generous benefits on board, but we also really encourage men to take it so mark Zuckerberg talk paternity leave and was very public about. It are see tee, o my shop for, took paternity leave. Not all companies do that and our laws are unequal in a lot of states. Companies get reimbursed for
turning to leave me some person and not or paternity leave. Even our lies in the federal state level, make it easier for companies to give, How did he leave and fraternity and then right from the beginning or setting expectations had taken care that child is the woman's drop out so deep? You just know it on the surface of like oh, it's unequal, but then, when you start picking apart the little pieces, like literally legislation that leads to this point these to see how the well runs we're the porter biased, supported by better help. We love it. We love, you can't say enough good things about it, if you're feeling how but just leave it at that, I was going day depressed or if your struggling, if you're feeling, if you have a feeling about anything, it's cool to talk to someone, the coolest people, I know go therapy. I agree as corkins club and I gotta be honest. Some of the people in my life that are pretty difficult can reach
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I wanted to go back, will put what you said about leadership positions and how it start at the beginning. I dont want to discount that, because of the way we ve gone, lots of men are currently leadership positions and they have to mentor women, and I do think it's a little bit of a tricky time for men too mentor women because of me to be Sir Scare. They would rather just like attached to a man. How do we get over? That? Again, this is such an important question. Thank you for asking it so both for me to one of the things that was just True- and it was one of those common reactions I got to lean in- was a senior man reading my book in saying you're right when a woman needs help, other on the phone. When a man needs help, I meet him for drank cause. I don't want to look improper and then meet. You happens, and I to be clear me too, is critically
corn for women, because we ve been harassed for long enough, but not harassing us is not good enough. Serious. You can't ignore us either so my foundation lean and again we get a survey on this and we found that more than fifty percent of male managers in the United States were afraid to do a common workplace activity with a woman. After me, too, like having a meeting just anyone is listing fees asked herself. Have you ever been promote by or promoted anyone you ve never met with alone futures. Now it's a little bit less relevant right now with Tibet, but it won't be, men are afraid to have meetings with women, but we need access to be equal. It turns out work. Travel does not mean your hotel room or travel is public airports. Dinners dont mean Europe If you are willing to have dinner with men, if you are willing to travel with men, you have to do that with women as well, because who do you think's getting the payment?
The guy who went on the work with you, you ve seen his work. You ve seen him interact the client she's getting the promotion and we ve we need to make sure that we are making access equal. What ever you are willing to do it and then do with men and nothing else, and if you're a guy that's genuinely worried like oh, I don't want to mess up, then you can What a dinner with someone at a public restaurant linked the rules you just outlined. If you don't want to get in trouble, for anything. You want to do anything bad, just no funny business. Very easy had just I don't touch, or I don't know, honey business. Other restaurant Donna Minor your partner, be chill cool, go to a public restaurant and, like yeah like seem so simple, but there is this that we have to acknowledge. That is. This beer in guys because cancel culture has gotten so most severe, and it's just like the key, a teen is waiting for its next victim and that a lot is in part by I mean it is contributing to like the puzzle, conversation and headlines about whose bad, whose good and all this like polarization
of like we have to be able to talk about some of these things with new ones, because the meat to movement, about asking men not to interact with women. Ever again. It's like just beat cool, just don't hurt women better zone. As has been shown, ignore us if you are really uncomfortable anyone answer this is fifteen years ago there is a partner at Goldman who actually didn't feel comfortable having dinners with women, but you know what he did. He just said are mounting dinners with man anyway, either he was like. I want breakfast and lunch guy and he had no dinners with anyone, I think that's ok to just make it, whenever you're willing to do do it with everyone, but I do think its work. Remembering that we like to mentor people who look like US act like us, have our interests. So if you're a wide Gulf playing male you're are likely to mentor a golf playing now, and that means we really need to be focused. We need to ask men to do their part to matter
Women, and especially women of color, like women, are more ambitious than white women. They are more likely to say they want to be CEO, they face more discrimination, and that means that its doubly important that we invest not just in white women but in women of color, because that's where a lot of potential leadership will come. and women when you're in those positions, it's very much incumbent on you to do the same. Yes, that's exactly right to always be looking behind you and see lagging. How can I help here, and it's really just comes back to the old tree- others, it You would like to be treated if you ve ever file like you wanted some one who was in front of you to look behind you and say how can I help here? How can I give you a leg up. all these things are so simple. Why do we ass humans have so much trouble applying them, because Society makes us feel like I've ruins in competition with one another and this or that in this chamber, this tribe in its ball, this visceral stuff tribalism, Wolf worth well, there's some historical basis for this. If you look back
like the nineteen, fifty sixty seventies and one woman was gonna get into the boardroom. It was going to be one woman. She knew it. She was competing with the other women, but I don't think that's true anymore and I think one of the great man we also need to break down is that women are mean to other women. It may have been true before, but I dont think that's true. Now we started linen circles. Fifty eight thousand linen circles now in countries all over the world, including amazingly right now, afghanistan- and this is all about women, helping, other women and so whether its formerly through a circle? What you said crescent about looking back in behind you, it's also looking to the side. It turns out that since men aren't gonna mentor us as much as we deserve, we mentor each other in credibly. Well, we get great advice from our peers and so circles. women, whether its through lean or just on your own. Anyway, you do it, but small groups of women who were really explicitly there to help you be more assertive help you reach
promotion help you win in those are really powerful and shaping proven over and over again to work. You met mark at a party. It has just had a chance has like that someone. I need what was it about you that he was gravitated towards Eden, say oh she's bossy, he or she has leadership skills as well. We went to a party, but neither one of us are big party or so we won't like in the corner for an hour and a half talking about how you scale organizations and what he said. Was he liked how I talked about how I hired people on how I tried to manage people and how he had grown. My team at Google and Facebook was much smaller. Google was about twenty thousand at the time in Facebook was about five hundred and fifty people say they were it kind of different stages. I also think that was pretty often about things. I have gotten and the thing is. I thought I needed to do better. All share a funny one with you. One of the things I said to him was you have to see around the corner to when you're gonna be bigger and not put things in place
Does that you're? Not you? People do later, and here is my example celebrating births his server, the team people, like you and my team girl by the time I left it was four thousand and we celebrated everyone's birthday on the day, but you know fast forward. Five years later, we have like a sheet caked celebrating quarterly birthdays, fifteen birthdays day right a we were celebrating birthdays every day and that no one felt special. But the thing that some interesting is that actually who had been on the team. Earlier, we celebrated your birthday, you kind of dim light being on the team. When might your birthday, so as I'm trying to think in advance of what my knocking at the other do later, even if it's a really fun nice thing like birthdays and set process he's up so that they can scan You have the wrong way. You need with. That's great, O Connor intuitive to cause you'd you'd. Think like oh as a leader I should be celebrating.
Poison celebrating their birthdays, but you don't even consider what, if I'm the leader of a lot of peoples and I'm getting fifteen, she takes a day. That's absurd! That's a beautiful piece I say that I would have thought it. It's a woman who's going to the groceries rouse to pick up the she cake every day, yeah correct and its also as you grow organism and being really open where you're the problem, so my other early Google story is going my team really quickly, and I thought it was like super important- and if you are on my team, I interviewed you and soon. When we were about a hundred people. Those interviews were like five minutes, but still no enjoying my team. I had spoken to myself. so in a meeting of just my little direct reports like five or six people, one day more about a hundred people, I said. Maybe I should stop interviewing because it took like a week or two to get my counter I fully the fact that efforts be like? Oh? No, it's your team. You have to air view they applauded yeah broke out into up.
as I was like? Oh my god, I'm the bottleneck but the law on the more serious thing I realize decisive. Why don't you guys tell me? Why did I have two suggested and I think every time you figure something out where you are the problem I'm doing something wrong, finding a way to say wait, a second. Why do I have to figure that out like? Why? Did you not feel comfortable telling me was, important a one way. I rectify that- and this is not for everyone, but it works for me. Everyone who works for or with me. The vast majority of them are genuine friends like that. We started out socially, I find for me in those relationships. The person is much more likely to call me out on something which I as a prerequisite, unlike if you're gonna take the position. I need you to be brutally honest when you think I'm doing something wrong. I explicitly state that, and I find that my friends are much easier to be like you're, ruining it at all, their meaner than other people, I include myself in that. I like it, that's really important and your finding ways
honesty out of them in that's your credit, o totally to her credit, I mean she makes it so easy. Is she hears it when you come at her with hey? I think this needs to change, or I think this is an issue on potable you're. Very very coach mobile people learn they learn once you have one experience with a boss, you know how to interact with that boss from then on out. It's really incumbent on the boss to be open. I think- and you do a very, very good job of banks. Bunny took great up good job. Ok, so the world of tech wish you dominate is in rather believe male driven you're, the only woman amongst a lot, a man a lot of times, how do you feel heard in that grouping cause? Sometimes I'm in a group of people and I'm said something and I've said it like four times and then a guy
say it, and then everyone will hear rumours were warm and Ethel wars feeling in the world that and you feel you're going crazy here like subconscious gas lighting like omega. Does my voice box? No, why don't we hear me I mean yeah attack is very male dominated field, but so are so many others and then even fields that aren't male dominated dominated by men at the top. So wicked teaching my most important jobs in the world. We trust our kids to be educated, majority of teachers in our women, the further you got up the ladder principle, Superintendence School Board, the more male gaps and that's true in so many fields, and so I think the most important part is not just finding ways to get women to enter his fields, but then finding ways for women to make their voices heard in those held, and that was an easy for me. Even when I joined Facebook, they did people from all sides and it was really interesting because it was like very senior. I was hired to be the CLO, but it took me a few
here's to say, wait a second. I really don't think all the women like people and they would say no ask them and they loved it, and when I was at a consulting firm, my boss took me deep sea fishing. Nothing. I like last, I get nauseous about gender stereotyping. Here I personally hated more than anything, but you know what my boss said when he invited me with all so my team, it was the only woman- is like here. Wait. I dare not tell you the truth on paper, even when I was hired a seal of Facebook for me to find my voice. There are other women and tat. There are some great women out there. There, Susan, which risky at you tube at their Stacy Brown, felt that there are great women our and your women who are increasingly using your voices, but we need a lot more wasted is like paper optional. Now
the offsets changed, enabling some people and some let's I'll cook. Together they became some art staff. They became some line. Tastings did change from an assumption of heads, go play people like an elective. You can sign up for whichever our site, you want to have to be helpful or flipping, like some people, someone tasting and we got much better feedback there you go. This is hard because, like what we were just talking about earlier, we have to ask the men to do it equally. If you're asking man to go, fishing will also never. Never never going deep sea fishing, but if they're asking the man you know he might have been like yeah, that's. I should Personally, I share all like really running might have equal or he was doing it right. There's so much, once there is, but that's what we used to talk about it. Yes much like where we started in this conversation, my Christian said about talking about depression. In talking about anxiety, talking about challenges, we had to start talking about gender,
workplace because pretending it was working pretending. It was all even pretending that women weren't getting interrupted more and promoted less than men wasn't working for us. While speaking of naming it, you ve add that it's funny when you do interviews and stop people, don't ask you about your husband who sadly passed away, and it's interesting that no one will talk to you about the head or people avoided, and it's a huge part of your story and your life, and I just wanted to check in on. There have been so my husband died, very suddenly seven and have yours our end before that people would talk to me about my kids off its four people, say Well, I walked into a room at work. People tat might, I could see, any room by walking in literally just showing up an all conversation would stop or I'd drop, my kids off its full and you could seizures and it was really hard and so thirty days
at the end of the jewish period of morning, which is called shallow shame. I wrote a public post, I wrote how it felt based we feel almost invisible. The questions people ask after real tragedy that our normal question but a really insensitive, really, how are you well, my husband died two weeks ago, so I'm not that great and replacing it with questions that acknowledge. How are you today what I learned when I last day of my house and was just how much I got wrong before so before, taped I'd. If someone Lhasa, under someone, was facing some terrible? I cancer. I would bring it up one time because I wanted to say I'm sorry, your knowledge, but after that I never brought it up again, because I thought I was gonna remind them. Remind me seven and a half years later, you walk up to me and say I'm sorry, fewer laws, I'm not like hopes. I forgot defect. you're, leaving all day next to someone who's undergoing treatment for cancer. If you say three months in,
the treatment going. I'm thinking of your house, her health she's, not my hopes. I forgot. I had cancer, a new reminded me Silence is only protecting you, it's not protecting them in that doesn't mean everyone wants to talk about everything all the time you can say. If you want to talk about this, but if you do I'm here and not for on someone else to be the person who brings it out because when you have ass, when you have the cancer when you're facing that huge challenge. You'll want to walk in in, and you want to walk in. Remember like actually I'm really sad, my send still not alive. Even though it's been three months, it's very hard to bring it up, it's so much nicer to give that openings to the other person. We are supported by a supported by Grove, taken the guesswork added trying to go green.
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know about it. We know the daddy lost his privilege without the hall and you'll see other people drink or someone who bore a glass of wine. But daddy can't do that and shame is the same way and even adultery is the same way and grief falls under that category of like humans. Their mother board goes off line and you politely dont know what to do so. You pause, but sometimes pausing is the worst thing for the person that it's happening too in my instinct would be like I'd rather the wrong thing and then go was that in sensitive or a yet. You dont have to share if you dont want to, but to make at least that person feel like live and noticed. As I imagine, a lot of these taboo topics are, what make you feel so isolated than to silence a room on top of it just cause the other monkeys in the room. I don't know what to say: it's gotta be awful. I really group
I am being willing to address it, as you just said, and then being willing to show up. I think the other thing that happens is when someone's facing something really terrible. We feel it if they're, not our childhood best friend were not close enough to help them, but the problem is, we don't have enough childhood best friends to get through this there's a story that item and I put an option b. The book we ve heard about this Brazilians and my husband staff together, a friend of my sister's, whose childs teacher the teachers child had cancer and was in the hospital- and you know this- is the teachers child she taxpayers often, but she doesn't know are well so she figured she wouldn't show up it. Then she read, one of our story is not to be so. She bought a big stuff down over the hospital and she text it from the lobby and said I'm in the lobby of the hospital. I haven't stuffed animals for your daughter, but I can just leave it down here unless you want me to come up right away, the teachers had please come up. She gave the child stuffed animal to teach her behind. The chop. Cheers pouring down relates can't tell the story of that kind myself because it turns out.
just showing up you do not have to be childhood. Best friends was summoned to bring dinner after someone dies or to bring a stuffed animals. The lobby of the hotel. Another great story, I love, is a friend of mine when his daughter had cancer as well in the hospital a friend. accidents had. What do you not one on your burger cause, I'm coming over a lava, strong text like that? spun, really really well to a strong tax like that and aggressive tax bigtime access for a sex to me was high. My name is Dax. I stole your number from China. How do you feel about that but another guy get already yeah like. Sometimes it is being willing to just blurt something out to make their person, feel scene and being willing to make a mistake. One of my childhood friend, I'm not in touch with her very much anymore and she just lost her husband, extremely tragically. He was murdered. I fell into all of these same tropes. You know I was like shoot what
I do do I reach out it's weird to reach out if I haven't reached out to her in years. I did all this whole thing in my head. I made it about me, essentially cow uncomfortable. Am I going to feel if this goes poorly and then eventually was like in a wet, no I'll just reach out and say: hey no need to respond to this, but I just want you to know that I'm thinking about you, If you need anything like I'm always here, and then she responded immediately and was like I'm so grateful you sent this and then you know she started opening up about what is going on, and then I checked back in with her and I'm being a making that a priority, because also, I think, when big tragic events have em there's an immediate outpouring of so much quote, love and checking in it's a lot, it's probably overwhelming at first and then there's like a two week period than it cuts, often and everyone's done asking your checking in or doing anything
not like. No. This is for life. This is for life that she is holding mess. I really agree and its remembering that I never did this before gave tied. If someone passes away his close to someone, I love I mark there birthday in the day they died in my calendar. I call them on those two days, because that is the marking of time every year on October. Second, my kids and I know what we're state, how old Dave would have been in use in every year and may first, we now that someone dies today's. Actually they anniversary of Dave's fathers stuff I spoke to his brother. Rob is my brother now than some of the obvious days: fathers mothers if you ve just lost child, if you ve lost a mother mother, says brutal fathers day to this day, it's getting easier now that I've fiance my kids at a step farther but fathers days to really hard and then just those average decent you're, so right than ever shows up at the beginning, and then it gets harder and harder for people to really be there or they feel like they checked off a box. I did I checked in
make it all about our knows, because we're nervous. So let's say someone close to me: dies you mark that in your calendar the next year. How do you see that conversation, I just say today as a year rhino. Today's two years or I'm thinking of you, that's really what we need to get comfortable letting some one else take the reins stipulate. If we just set a standard where, if something happens to someone whether its track our awful or uncomfortable, rather than coming, Billy shutting down around them. If you just said hey, I don't know if I'm gonna handle this correctly, but I want you to know that I care and then the insert a questionnaire just say: that's all I wanted you to know yeah or if your modest close, you can taxed and say, hey, there's zero chance. They don't know that days, hey. I know tomorrow is the anniversary of John Staff in case a friend tomorrow that first year with your name on it, come in your house at three o clock, or in case you want to take a walk tomorrow, I'd love to offer and let them be but offer
My friends have done amazing job remembering, but for other friends I have lost you. Haven't, like it's been five years ago and remember today that I just I think, probably compounds, though loneliness, I mean you're already field. This deep void am sure just feels like another layer of abandonment in some way, giving us We gotta think about each other guys we really did what we're getting to the router. We, I think about each other. What I like, though, is you, are really what about telling the story about after his death and resilience and loving again, which I think is really hopeful? I wrote, an open love letter to Tom earlier this year and I put it in good housekeeping which magazine a matter. Women wait and I got all these letters and notes and comments a transition median in answer from people who are winners as well at all. These notes, from someone like you gave me hope that I could find love again. You wanna taboo subject, question you just let it offers taboo subjects dating after death
and its function here. What's our two topics together gets? You were harsher on about this matter within who, I think I know women great, thank you the gas eating after someone dies, people deserve to find love again, serve them and when you are open to it, You know I'm sure, not everyone, but most people can, and that is a taboo subject at something. My brother was the first person to address at me, and my brother said: compliments after if I'd, if you were man, you'd be dating by now, there is an email, Frederick, whole family, my brother and my sister, in their husband and wife and my parents, and I think they forgot- I was on it and someone each other's someone needs to talk to Cheryl about starting to date I would remind the thread, and I was like I don't know who's gonna. Do that but D. The person who tell someone you're gonna do again as soon as you ready and I'm gonna. The poor even doing that, because you feel like you're disloyal to the person who died and so absurd. It is right as you can,
still honour everything that that person was an gave to you, whether its children or just a wonderful life, but also there is a separate issue, which is your soul and your heart that still needs someone there. That's not just a memory you, so much is honoured. You can still love someone after they ve died, but they're not gonna go I bid you a night yeah. Oh man, I, like this conversation, I don't even think about the fact that their even a gender balance in that in dating after death. Why dont men have as much of a problem? Do you think coming back? Well, it's again society's expectations and he goes deep deep into culture. I mean there's cultural, practices all over the world in history and history, and today were women used to get married to the brother right. Oh, my god, some widows warble burned as part of the future
of the man. We never do that with men, and we do mandate more quickly and women are judged. More harshly happened to me has happened, tat lots of people another way to show up for someone who has just lost his job I do find love again, giving them permission the air- and maybe that's where all this comes together right permission to be honest, of permission to be women at work to say sentences like I have a child. I need to go home to and may have hey permission to speak openly about the challenges we have given other people permission to share those challenges to and permission to say you know. Actually, I'm not a huge fan of deep sea fishing. Can we do this? Instead? Can we go get wine instead or whatever it is from? Maybe not that but yeah like just owning your
of not having to bend or being vulnerable. Go you know, I am not full disclosure, the biggest fan of deep sea fishing, but I dont want to be left out of this trap, and I do want to continue on my rode up here in the Congo. The latter are there any other options being built horrible enough to say that that's right and strong enough assertive enough, not bossy, not at all certain. I'm raising too area, assertive young women, I'll, tell you that and we don't use the word bossy. We might have used a couple times, but I do sailing in to them a lot You really lean and ended. I aren't you girl, we love you all. They use bossy if what they're doing is actually putting people down. If then taken charge you never ever climate bossy its. If they're like you, can do this today right, I guess I mean I'm still using it as a pejorative, though by true well, I do feel ass. If I had boys, I would music in the exact same way, though
other things about raising kids that are really exploring their boundaries and self sufficiency and ability to sort a clap back at you. Is that, like I, don't wanna edit that out of there personality is unlike. I would rather have them be hell on wheels for eighteen years and release them into the world as assertive young people, but I would rather have that than anything, and I think that's great, it's so easy, though, even as a mom like again we're talking about that like crazy, I'm on a new ones like I have one daughter who, if you were to from a a young age, I'm Talkin two years old, lean over Ambrosch, her hair out of her eyes. She ll slap you damn here I mean she will literally no don't touch me any like wow. The aggression that came from that too Rio at her in that moment, when it first started happening, we all kind of pause. We were like other, that's her. She doesn't like that, and I got a red the signal
I've, seen the grandparents do it. Sometimes they been like all come on, I'm allowed to pay your head and I think its awesome. I think that she has them see to be able to tell someone she doesn't like when an adult push Her head of rising like yeah. Everything full time. Someone touches you in a way you do not appreciate. I would like you to vocalize at such a great thing to teach a daughter. Early early early on so great yeah, because I think the instinct is to be like. Will that, dont be room. Ah ha, that's it. We can't tell them that their boundaries are rule. Exactly are just not rude. She's. Just saying you can't touch me when I don't want to be touched and that's exactly what she should do. Yes, I really agree that this is fine. This is really fun. Either way. Can I just say every like these twists and turns it, this conversation is had cause? We ve not discussed a lot of these topics and obviously your Reza may took Monica nigh the last two and a half months to reach.
this offend, you have so many credentials and accolades and things we wanted to talk to you about, but I am so pleasantly surprised. We talked about these topics yeah, because everyone can read your wikipedia you I mean I do think when we bring our sounds too. Whenever we do, where did you bring? The parts of us there are sort of the part with your daughter is like the catch me forehead vacant NASA to boys and girls. The parts of us were, I want my sixteen year old son to still be able to cry if you want, still not just my elementary school son. I just think that makes us better and all these topics come together because who we are ass, people and how we experienced last and how we experienced the challenges and how we talk to other people and how we think about gender and raise these things are all completely intertwined and there creating the world we live in with all of its challenges, but also all of its opportunities. I'm grateful to both of you, I feel like you, are giving these topics air in a place where more people
and find them and more people are gonna. Listen, and I'm really grateful for that. Thank you, you're, alas gas. For this CS in honour of we are supported by, but we're gonna keep doing it. I agree with you. I think it's good to continue these types of conversations thing So much for making time for us. Thank you for making time for me suffer.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-01.