Yusef Salaam (Exonerated Five, Better Not Bitter) and Ethan Herisse (When They See Us) both join the Armchair Expert to discuss the impact that the Netflix series has had on popular culture and how their friendship has grown over the years. Yusef talks about not being bitter about his experience in prison, the impact his mother had on him, and how he used meditation to get through incarceration. Ethan discusses moving to LA when he was 12 to pursue acting, narrating Yusef’s new book, and being a student majoring in Chemistry. Yusef explains his perspective on reparations, the law of abundance, and that the memories of prison will stay with him forever.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to arm chair expert on Deck Shepard who joined by Monica. We have to focus on today the ashes always rare for a year out of our comfort we were, but it comfortable use of Salaam and Ethan hurry, see now doktor use of as a member of the exonerated five. Previously known as the Central Park five now known as the exonerated five he's in a week. Winning motivational in transformational, Speaker a thought leader, a trainer and the New York Times best selling author. An coach in either then, is an actor who played use of in flexes great great found that everyone should watch when they see us? You has a new book out right now called better, not bitter. Everyone should check that out this, was very inspiring for us because he is in a position,
almost no one is an to have been imprisoned for seven years and for something he did not do and then get exonerated such an inspiring story yard. The triumph of will is come, unparalleled, incredible story. I hope everyone checks better, not bitter. Please enjoy use of Salaam and Ethan hurry C on these episodes. We like to highlight some back on Genesis I want to talk about Condor Chocolate conduct. Chocolate is black owned, an He mail, on which I love, and you know I love chocolate. Oh yeah, the research for I really am you crave a grave it and I like having some chocolate bars at my house for pre night sweetness, o primo sweep and like pre, bad. Ok, I like to jump on some chagas before bad. A note trot come exam, and conduct, has lots of amazing flavors and my favorite his dark talkin, obviously, and its from Ghana,
cocoa, is from Ghana. Odious, yes, is awesome, so please check out Condor Chocolate, that's cool! and a k, Andy A then. I won't People love barbecue to check out char boys. Char boys delivers the bull tat we all grave with barbecue, but also manages to cut back sodium and sugar found in large quantities of most major brands. That's the thing tat. You love barbies a slogan than you, the backing like yeah? It's now which our boys enjoy jar boys he's Where are you? Are you so I'm down in Atlanta for the amount area within which our gas issue that's real over their hunger shortage, where it is crazy, because we were in New York, my wife and I in the family became I can we will, I think, I'll, be filled the Baltic
Really. We had already had gas so that work that, for those like the seventies, plain themselves when you see movies at the seventies nurseries, half mile lines again, ass, you think whether it would be impossible in this country, absolute, Just like a man it would be impossible for me here? It is You're, not gonna, be impossible, is turning out to be possible year. and even where you at you an ally, yeah California, I'm actually in urban areas. You see around Simon my College, partly Why hold on a second? This is adorable, during college, but you're working actor, who would have the integrity did not choose acting over an education. This is startling. No, I mean yes, then during both agenda about ever since I moved to count for yourself just kept it up your college and I M still doing it cigar and well so far,
what he may join in chemistry, Impressive, I just transferred into carries you this you what's the ammo anatomical weight of uranium. We I've not exploit, may know, can working with carbon nitrogen national Mass round the hookah refers. Was we so hardier, organic chemistry that someone like gets people out of med school there like I took organic. and I was like now I'm gone, that's what I've heard yeah then the series is gonna, make a break in the sky, and Sun shone. So myself now you experienced at all. There seems to be consensus around this. Like I want to Michelle Obama even wrote about it. Nor book was what a black students you are in room to a medical degree get strongly.
Encouraged by councillors and advisers to not do it, Have you heard of this phenomenon? Is it happened to you? I have not heard and I also having experienced it, either. No one's discouraged use the eyes get on that they are more than it does before they get a college, possibly if students I like, exploring the possibilities of what to go into You said that be immediate thought. There came. The mine was what Malcolm X was discouraged to become, as it should call when they ask him hey what do you want to be and when you think about systemic racism, oppression? All of that stuff, a lot of it has nothing to do with physical fighting, but has everything to do with what happens mentally? To get you to accept whatever definition they are trying to put up What did he originally wanna? Be, I don't remember exactly I think it might have been a lawyer or something like that
a good lawyer yeah, but it's one of those things were you said you so damn you know when I went to college after came often present, I bumped into master teachers. My most impact will teacher was a student of dogma January clock and I think that the dynamic clogged is self taught. You know the fact that he was Professor Amaretto said how to college, and he had people under him who were not self talk. I had to go to school, to get educated, they are getting there. patient in addition to what they had under him. So with regard to master teachers, what I found was dead in education environments that our breeding grounds for success. They have specific things right. Yet a student and teacher ratio is about.
Since that you find in a lot of private schools, but in public schools. You'll find me also allowed people fall through the cracks, but with the master teachers. They then get the opportunity to look at the child and see the child's gifts that their exhibiting and they begin to teach that child based on the gifts brain so in other words of a child is doing A circle by the circle is not inexact circle ratio wise, they might be the next Basque yeah, phenomenal thing. You know them ass, a teacher than does that, but unfortunately we also have because of oppression and racism. The exact opposite happening where we have people who are supposed to be master teachers who sometimes that phenomenon, whether discouraged students from big
their best rise, because what happens in all of our lives is that the people who have been the most oppressed as they were lies some of their dreams and aspirations. They begin to teach us. That is possible, but if they never realized of streams and aspirations. no one knows that my family's gonna produce the first millionaire the first building. You know the first shrugging it's interesting, there's something different versions of it: one could just be abject racism, one could be, there looking at the numbers above them, so oh black folks are so under representative in stem studies. What militias are not, oh, they don't either thrive, they're they're not drawn to it. So I have this burgeoning student o generally black folks do better in law school I mean it's terrible, but also we constantly talk with them are your swimming, and so every single person swimming in the water in no one really knows how the fuck you get here, where Blackfoot
are underrepresented. In stem studies, so they are on your own figure that out in people are coming the wrong conclusions and they have a backwards. It's all right, the examination. Now it's funny brought up Malcolm X. I listen to some of his speeches recently, an oh, my god. Was he a message for what we just now come to accept, like I was really blown away, of course he's an archetype. If you grew up in the air these, like, I think you and I are roughly the same age. You said Osborne. Seventy five reborn in seventy four California, yes, amalgam eggs for me, like counter revolution is: he was the voice of a militant movement that he was dead. pain. It is someone that was almost the antithesis of Martin Luther King right We all love Martin, the kings. Of course this guy is gives positioned in this story boy or out of the opposite right. Listening to him, talk about generational wealth, owning property,
these things, now that are really really ubiquitous and we seem to understand the man. He was singing that fifty years ago, to the exact message- and I was like oh wow- that's something to think about- and this is the unfortunate part of history that once you realize what happened you realized Oh, you were Miss Toy, so the message occasion of the negro by that the quantity Woodson becomes impossible and then the education of the new world by back the quantity what's it becomes impact, will as well but you realize that here's a person talking about something- and you just say if we took Malcolm and in transposed him right in two days time, It would be like perfect, while he did have an average message, not mix short term as India, he wouldn't have like an important message, and I think that's really interesting and important too and when people ask me have we made any progress in many ways we have made progress,
but we have been playin the tangle. So we ve been two steps forward once their batten sometimes is a balanced tangled. That's right! and then, when you think about examples like those of the homer, you realize that he's a people who, for all intents and purposes, were able to raise themselves out of everything that was heaped upon them by their own bootstraps, and you take documented kings statement. There says you know when people say for yourself up alive yourselves, our bible steps. He said that's cruel to tell that to a bootless man, yeah yeah, or how about, if lifting yourself up through great effort bring you too, where everyone I started by one of your lifetime of lifting yourself up literally just get you the two neutral. We ain't all get lived out from the thought of it,
for it is they that part with that? You just said is why I truly believe when you think about what Doktor John, who Clark say what he said to begin a people's history. Would slavery makes everything else looked like progress. On the flip side. Imagine people who had never had this happen to them. They would be exactly what one is that to the standard would be already there now. You know people who had this horrible history? We happen to them and in bite of it all. I still making strike the person like Barack Obama. He then really sit five night, an anomaly but no one, but he's presented. as the anomaly by the only person was able to rise up the ladder to become this mythical person. Other black president of the United States of America, it to turn,
as you know, was graceful about. It is only the staff in his life man. He made it look simple. You may look easy. He did it out this as a major, uncomfortable Ethan, but yourself, Q are, my error must be with you at the sky, like a suicidal able, My days does get better very aren't you screw stature only a clear, this is a good day. I was in the uses, regard them as we found when they see us and twenty a team and light did all the press and everything I still like by myself when he speaks and like math and been righteous scarier food. Where are you from originally Ethan? I was raised Massachusetts. I lived there until two dozen twelve and that's when I moved out California and the move to California was motivated by what by
a new wine to pursue a career in acting out, and so what I know is that you're, some adoring parent try yeah I mean I owe them. Everything left her house. Our whole family lived in Massachusetts. early January Florida, which is much closer and where in California, did you guys move to arrive? No, no! No, I thing is I've been back to Massachusetts. A few times like as a family and other things, and although, like that place, has my heart my family's there. I don't think I wanna leave. California, I really do money here, Serbia, my artists in Michigan, but yeah could never ever go back to living in nine months of gray and all right by ass, your I wanna be warm. I feel it. I feel that ok? So you can have a unique relationship, so you get brought together, of course, because you,
if you are one of the central Park, five, which give a brief recounting avenues for any one that might not have seen when they the US one of these very extraordinary heartbreaking cases of wrongful conviction, uniquely monstrous, because it's all children who get sent to prison is just one of the worst scourges that we know of a movie was made about it when they see us and then Ethan you came into play young use. If and then you guys clearly have become friends. How did that happen? Man, I thought, like the connection was established and see me airy after Egg settled and was no longer a star stock after meeting him in, like I've, disabled lifestyle taught endure and interacting with them more like. This is just a really great wise man. Again,
Ah, no from then on it was just captain contacted me. I got in contact with them. He was kind enough to. Invite me over I'll promote is new blocking all of this, and I am very thankful for that. The French that enumerated the last book, great punching, their prison area. That was often when I got that all browsers like Norway, and then I was so excited about you want me to do it and then, after a while done. He wasn t reach out again and said it was great now snake, that's outside you love it. That's all. I need your good luck, but he's way cuter than you ever were like you did it about it, I'll be like if I was going to have someone. That's like they're, just always like thirty years behind me playing me, you did well. I need to find someone like that, oh my goodness, Mason Guy, invest the part that I looked back at work, we were being presented with when overdue Renee was acting.
initially, who do we want to play? The part? Do we want? Somebody who looks like us are who can act, and I think one of the thing that becomes a defining moment is when you have both right. Aha, he definitely work That's what I would look like even now, right, if you know the flat top and all that stuff in always really interesting as well, was even him reading the book. I remember when I first was asked to narrate my book a memoir. There was one of those things that, when I've thought about narrating punching the air I didn't want to do it. I was, I know, I'm nervous about doing there and I listened all the time to audio books as I listen to punch in the air and attend to listen to all your books and, like maybe three four times the speed while some ahead the slow this because I was born a website wait, hold doin what
we'll tell me when I'm one stage about being enthralled with the way that I am presenting, this story right this kind of our body experience working, really dive, deep and really explain and expand upon what happened to us. As the members of the then known central park. Five, I heard that saying depth in etons narration in putting the air captivating I'm there was like wow. I can't listen to. three times this leap into the story, a whole new way, I was excited to listen to you. When you get up the lizard you get the perfect blizzard from dairy queen, you dont, pounded, savour it won by headed. I'm exactly exactly another reason why I listen to audio books at two to three times the speed, sometimes even faster than there is because
there's a scene and when they see us my order character meets cavern, Richardson's, o the character, and there is a dialogue at hand. and then the dialogue we're talking about work and how it's difficult to get work. And, of course this is kind of really expounded upon with Raymie Santana story because he gets locked back up by making the wrong decision. But talking about that and he's like how's everything going and, unlike I'm, workin he's like her you get a job or like a lot of applicant right, you're hurried up. It's because I had this technique and I knew that if I could learn enough, then, as soon as I got my foot in the door, I can prove that I'm supposed to be right. and asked what are we doing like a light on the application? In turn
of having the history of being able to do the work, but not in terms of being really truly able to do the work, because I ve been doing this work. Since I was a child now people who don't know the story, a condense version is Lee. There were many kids running around central park having a good time. Fourteen did twenty years old and on how many were involved independently of that a woman had been raped in central park and then the police became convinced that you and for others, were responsible for that rape. They coerced confessions that were true, they didn't match up in any which way no one had the same information, but they somehow dried to weave this together. There was laughable quote forensic evidence a hare. Looking like of someone's hair no dna and then everyone got sentence you are in for six years. Eight months.
Guys were in longer and then in two thousand and two may be the real rapist admitted to having rape the woman Everyone was exonerated. At that point in terms of your Reza may now, no one would have to put Phelan would they will get one exonerated them. That's you're, no longer Phelan weren't, ever one No, that's! But technically, the employer, and you look up in these benefits. But yes, yes, I mean to your point. There was a time where, when I first came home from prison, on most obligations. It said very clearly: have you been convicted of a crime within the past seven years, so, the six years in eight months that I was in there, for I was waiting until that. Having your mark once the seven year more kid I could finally seeing no okay now what happened, which was very very interesting, was
They then remove the time limitation and said: have you ever been convicted of a crime within the past seven years in a small way? This will not hinder your chances of employment. Where I only thing that was missing was the modern day week. Emotion! That's it here, but the great thing about finally in exonerated. Is that we have everything restored? We had to fight to get that restoration though broke. Recently they said. Okay. Now your exonerated we're going to remove your names from the criminal database literally To get our names, we moved from those databases, the problem. Modern technology is- and I tell my chosen- is all time even probably knows better than anyone when people go for jobs. They are no longer looking at Lexus Nexus there looking at your social media, so they googling, you didn't, want all kinds of stuff. They doin deep dive back
on checks, because social media now for a lot of people is the truth. There is even with the now exonerated five, our story becomes that much more impact for because when they see us gave it new life and with the young portrayal of us which was missing from the way we told our story. Young people telling a story gave the world a true insight into how devastating this wise, It wasn't just five individuals, but it was their family. So was their communities that this system ran over yeah, but all of that stuff gets restored in a very powerful way and now we're celebrated in its it's weird, because it allowed its as much You might be with me in an airport or walking down a hundred and twenty fishery to something like that, and they have to leave me because I will get stop. I will get acts
take pictures and I'm just the kind of guy that will stop and take folders with them before I dont know that anyone's a wall certainly other examples exists. but what a rare life experience to be famous for the worst thing possible and then famous for the best it like you have experienced both ends of this crazy spectrum in a way that nearly nobody ever does, there's no way up. maybe or of that experience were- and I was debating whether I would say this or not- we try to stay a political, but the fact that fucking trumped took out full page adds saying: can these guys all money he's not a dossier is not law enforcement. He decides to take up. Four page add same throw the book at these guys that that existed, and then what CS exists in your lifetime, as is really, while what a difference, you must think Are you in a simulation,
I gotta tell you so when I tell you story. I get the opportunity to have Nobody experiences right back to my angel. You should be angry, but you must not be better and she's a bitter Just like a cancer these upon the horse. It doesnt do anything to the object of his displeasure, and then she teaches us the alchemy like how we all can become alchemists. She says so use that anger, you dance it. You market, you voted she said you do everything about it and then she said you talk it so for me to tee My story in all of the regions is so powerful At the same time, I have had the opportunity to reexamined my case and even the case of all of us. This is a beautiful story as if they could be any beauty in the story. This is a very beautiful story. This is a story when you look back you see, there we survived and then
I also see that we were vilified and in worse way, possible thirteen years later- and I'm really in fact, thirty years later because of when they see us. This story now can be understood, and I talk about that in my book. Better, not better The story can now be understood as a love story between God guarding his people. This story and the case itself is a case. In modern times, God is using to put the whole system on trial in order to produce them I recall in modern times, but is also a story to tell people that, you two could be buried alive and forgotten. The system will forget tat you see in instead of a social here you are they build this fire to consume, but they forgot that creator like real fight. The creator is the owner of heat, so. We emerge in this miraculous way
like modern Day shy, drachmae shock and I've been to go this story Is it really really powerful story when you look at it from the vantage point, because most of us are not Most of us are not angry were using this platform that assist them gave us, and we are trying to make positive impact in positive change We're not just saying we don't want to ever see another central park. Five were also now telling people was possible that you can be knocked out dead in life. and be given new life. Yeah yeah, you can arise from the mouse improbable payments. stay to arm chair, diffused air. In the mean you can see my new series call created with Prince Harry. We guy conversations about mental health. Would stories from Lady Gaga Demarche arose in, and people from around the world, including me over Winfrey are high.
Is it when you hear these stories, it allows you to not only see us differently but see yourself too Thirdly, and realize it no matter what you're going through you're, not alone, it's conversation on mental health, you don't want to miss. Watch the me. can't see on Apple tv plus supported by Mcdonald's. You just had I am so into than by one of your favorite items and get it either one for just a dollar. I can't let a whale dynamic deal. I added the action she's the exercise. I then called you, I told you I'm eating this. It was a whole thing that really really happen. You know I've had a lot of wonderful Mcdonald's memory. Every time we ve gotten. Dick the way we celebrate our return to feeling good as we go and we get a bunch of fries extra large. Now look. We hear the shore all about celebrate
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I was thinking about your experience in the one thing I thought of immediately is your mother. I was just thinking if I had to watch one of my daughter's go to prison for something she had not done. It would be by far the heart, to witness in ways worse than death, because she'd be sitting in their living a world that I lied to her about that. I told her now we live in a world where there's just as we live in a world where your peers I presume you're innocent and there she was in there everything I told her was a what the personal pain it would cause me I just can't imagine what it did to your mother, fortunately mother had been telling me that she was raised in a Jim Crow. So I was the they didn't understand what she was trying to teach me in Seoul, in many ways a call her Mamma, they Harriet Tubman
because in many ways you know, Harriet Tubman is quoted to have said that she freed x amount of hundreds of thousands of jobs. Said she would have freed more, had the only known that they were in slavery. Here I was experiencing what I thought was the America Drain- and my mother was trying to tell me that we are experiencing, is not real and she was trying show me from ever having woken up to work, Malcolm X. all the american nightmare and, unfortunately, of fifteen years of age, I was walking up to the american nightmare. My whole family was she still here. With us and my mother is a stage for cancer survivor. Three time only jeez what I think
what happened with us and the internalization of all of the terrible things my mother said. She truly believes it metastasized into the cancer there she began to have it wasn't until she went back to eating and healed herself tat, she was able to rid yourself from their cancer awful to deep dive into a story like this because on the one hand you see me- and you say, while this guy's happy He'S- not angry he's not bitter his successful there's a lot of things happening for him. He has ten children does jokingly, say we was making up for lost time. Just blew my mind when you said that I got two and that one too many I think I have heard, and I heard him say, nearest I'd help. Yes, I did. I tell you
why those things that you realise that it wasn't just something that impact it ass. I often say that the criminal legal system, paused at the fabric of the fibre of community family, my mother, being a seems to us and being a fashion designer she's, always tell me, don't pull at a string that you see coming out of the fabric, just take a censoring clip once you pull it, you begin to unravel everything that is holding it together, and so in my story, you how the salon family, whose a representation in community of other community members who also had the fabric of their families, people and in the community, which is a representation of the nation. We of so many hole. So many people who have been won over by spoke was of justice trying to make something up. Themselves most people who have a nice ending to their story. Now, how do
You manage to serve almost seven years in prison at a young age and stay the person you are or to what degree did it change you, and how did you that's a come to what happens to many people, which is they go in and lets say two out of ten as a criminal may come out as a four out of ten as a criminal, it doesn't make people better generally makes them war. So how did you stay the course throughout that journey? I touched on this you look at when they see us now was sitting with over one free and she turned to me and she said use of, haven't you get through it and I didn't go into depth, but I I said, and as one of the most simple truths about my story I found out that, through meditation later on my good friend, ass Brown, he said they imagine nation is the precursor of what's to come, so You can imagine if you can meditate. If you can t
but you can actively daydream and participate in that meditation. Just like college students who happened to be struggling if they visualize themselves in the future, taking that tassel moving it from one side of the head to the next and you marry that vision would watch. You imagined it to feel like to be celebrated by friends by family, in a space where Everyone is like. I knew you could do it. That's a great feeling if you can have such a good vision that and you marry their vision with. So many emotions. you now have uncovered the law of attraction is over me. I found this in prison. I was being taught yoga, was being taught about meditation. I was being taught all of these things and I was able to visualize myself getting out of prison. I found out wherever you're mine goals, your body, follow. So, if you're having a horrible tie, you can liberate yourself from
Bondage holding you into whatever prison. It is by meditate my visualizing and then write it down, didn't always right words, but I wrote poems or will I drew or a painted? I did all of these things. They capture the emotional trauma of the moment, but also gave it a window to escape, did being that person who meditated and was thoughtful and painted in DRC make you more vulnerable. It almost seemed anti survivalist to be adjusted their if so part of the trick is It's all happening inside of your own self, outside of yourself. You are preparing for the worse your meditating agile, walking down a car door towards the mess hall and murderers are looking at you rapist, I'm looking at you. Killers are looking at you and your method eating in.
letting them know, and I can only explain it this way. When I working at New presbyterian hospital. This ancient Phenomena phenomenon happen every single day of the work week. I would get out of work. Colluded translation, get on a train. What counts! As soon as I hit one hundred thirty fifth street, can I lived on hygiene? Thirty, eight street. At the time I would walk up stairs and as soon as I touched, the top stare I started to borrow a little bit. More. I didn't actively do this, wasn't like a conscious thing going to look back at her to shut the kind of interesting it was almost as if I was telling people that this suit that I was wearing is just a costume, yeah you're. Putting the shield up. yeah and so imprison you do. The same thing is just it in your safe space. being in a cell now you can relax, but when you're out there, in the rest of community. Like I learned I shall arts so was learning about teaching.
And so here I am in a court doing movements looking like what back then would be representative of Channel five Conform, Abuja person, They're like this guy is not playing this guy he's not acting like he knows how to do this. Guy knows how to do something, but I have one fighting prison was assaulted. Somebody punch me when I was looking outside- of that I had one fight and it wasn't a fight web the guy up or anything like that, because we were taught in martial arts not to hurt people. We will talk to heal people, but it was well These things. Were you like deflecting blows in you're, moving in such a way, and there, like all this guy, he knows what he's doing leave this guy a lot. Don't it was beauty,
because then, when you got the opportunity to bring your art boy out into the day, room and people saw what you were doing there. this is a modern day than goal in this wasn't like less rip up his artwork. This was while they were mesmerized by doesnt film, that I love course slam. Where's saw Williams here. The yard and of Oliver son he's about to get assaulted, and then he just be begins to do. Poetry and people are so captivated by his artistry the day star in there in the moment of appreciating home and then, when you finish, their light was about to do something that is one of the most beautiful thing said in that truth of who you are of what you're supposed to be about? If you know who you are and you come into a situation. Knowing who you are you will know,
be denied, but is if you try to be fake in whatever yes, you will be challenged, they'll be hardships that are different than the hardships that you would just normally go through because of the struggle of trying to break out of the gravitational pull of everything. Man, I do not want to sell my gun, comparing myself to have gone to prison for six years, but I do want to say when you're saying this, I just had this experience. Like three weeks ago, I've been alive twenty six years I was in Seattle still very quarantine. The only people out our punch in the air, the Screamin obscenities, I'm takin walks and dignity they didn't cardamon. I got back to my hotel after taken a few, these walks rose like I've got my whole Detroit presence on like I lived downtown when I lived in Dearborn like I had a thing, in the look in the ice was like we're cool
until we're not cool you're gonna have your hands full! That's what I'm telling everyone! I look in the eyes, and I was this we did it myself when I got back to my room- and I thought man, even with all the gives having given the benevolence, I couldn't be. The person that looked at those people loves nervous, unpredictable sheds about to happen. Gonna be the one to send such a fuckin light be MAO at them. There go first will kindness, I had resort to you'll. Have your hands full! I just we're thinking like embalmed, above that I haven't transcended that or that I can't overpowered the other way that I still a minute I don't know what you're about to do and I want you to know you shouldn't assume what I'm going to do roll and it's a bummer. I tell you what which is cool so that happens to me all the time and I call it PTSD it's the trauma of living life in the conditions that you ve lived. It rightly so
in a black and brown communities. We have this thing: where will hyper vigilant all the time and that's that's a problem that's one of those things where you're like. How can you live comfortably when you're hyper visually yeah? We ve taken that abnormality and made it normal the cool thing about it is this: once you recognize it, then you can change it and so there will be moments where I had to tell myself smile and really smile, which are it's right, because you can smile and a beer. It just be a facade smile with your eyes. You really smiling. I try to tap more into the human side of everything that we're supposed to be because, like what you're talking about with every space, that's a known place in America, New Yorkers, if you're not from New York you get turned into a new Yorker, yeah yeah and there's a problem with
and turned into a new Yorker, because it's the concrete jungle, it's the! If you can make it here, you make it anywhere, and why is that? It's because of the rigours of the challenge of life in a space like that you're right now in others, it that's the same thing for it, every known place in America really every known place in the world, but I think that once you see it, then you can save you. So I have to do something about this year. I had this huge dogwood myself ever those like. Ok. So, let's start from square one. Why are you doing that? While I'm afraid that someone's going to presume they can take advantage of me, ok. So what does that mean? They're going to attack me physically, I'm gonna fight back, so what I'm gonna instead do is tell them I'm ready to fight back. Ok, then, as I worked through us, so what I could do with a smile and be lovely and if they try to take advantage of I'm in the same position. I worry was in its time to get down that. Doesn't change like
can tell myself hate, you can defend yourself, but you don't have to wear the mask like you're still you're, not surrendering to be a victim surrendering to being the one that goes first, who tries to be kind first knowing you're not giving up your right to be subjugated by a stranger or giving permission to be so, but me what a racket it's a ragged. So we talked to a lot of really interesting smart people about what the court life is. As you said, you know when you start with slavery. Everything looks like progress another. Like an analogy. I give, as I give you good at the peak of Mt Everest, in someone's dine of oxygen deprivation, and you take them down two twin seven thousand feet. It got better their stealing enough. That's what's doesn't mean you can take it down the base camp, three fields,
but still known of oxygen, for anyone to git to everyone's got. Full oxygen is a long road. So when I'm curious about as it were, again the most heartbreaking fashion that the total bias of the judicial system, which I think hopefully rouser into acknowledge your starting to acknowledge some things. I guess the question is like: how do we change like? Ok? We acknowledge the problem. It's like, I admit, I'm an alcoholic. Now. What do we do? Where do we go wherever the steps we take? A fillip where that place words like someone's gotta, be brave and stand up and go look at this might be for here's a plan and I'm just curious. What you think are some of the steps we can take doesn't feel right too you, the victim of it, to tell me this illusion of it. But I do want your opinion on the way that I approached life now in a question. That is understanding and knowing that we were all born on.
This and we all have a purpose. You think about some of the concepts that have been presented by scientists or people in that space, and they talk about things like there are too many people in the world. We have to have population control so that this is actually happening in places in the world right now. But what if we began to think from the perspective of the law of abundance. Now we have the opportunity to understand the way need the cast systems that we placed around the world where some people have and some people dont have people relegated to modern day slavery through the thirteenth amendment as an example, all of the other girls that happen. I think that what is the most truthful thing about life is that there is never not enough, we make things appear to be there
Therefore, we have the horrid on money. We have those in different parts of the world. We have the hoard, our gas when the pandemic first happen, people were hoarding toilet tissues are you, what are the grocery store? You can find any politician. There was one of the most interesting phenomenon, but he made the law of abundance that says, because of the good, is that I know is afforded all of us. We will have enough. And if we don't have enough guess what, if our common neighbours door and I explained to them situation. They'll, probably help me out it's a weird type of thing, but I think that it almost causes us to, especially in this pandemic time It, causes us to re, examine what's important in life. What was important the day before the pandemic. Here we are with deep into
social distancing, quarantining now trying to figure out how we can get backs are needed so that we can resume life, but everything that was important the day before it hit the fan. Most of those things are an important anymore, but if you think about what you are saying- and you put it into the car- of what Malcolm x access wear. Black and brown people have had a knife stuck in their back taken. The knife out. Six inches does nothing to help the people, and he says this eloquently it's about: removing the knife altogether and addressing the womb and fixing the woman, and I thank them we look at a lot of the social. It was that we are experiencing a lot of stuff can be fixed tomorrow we can fix things like homelessness tomorrow with habitat for humanity. As an example- and I just saw this posting-
it is true or not, but if it is true, I think it's the most noble thing. You have lost my son, whose cream, in a twenty four hour, restaurant for homeless people to eat for free brilliant people who have can give back in such a way that impacts people in a very very noble way. Inessa tell us that we need to be looking at to be about it also causes us to be more human. We feel good about. Stay to arm chair. If you dare, we are supported by embark. As you know, whisky is one of my best friends whisky. It out whiskey. My dog he's got three legs he's down a leg, he asked and we wonder what they. Hell is whisky. What's he made up of yeah? Ok, We ve used embark and I'm
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I don't think I'll be right out of the gates. Their cells are sustainably may, with materials like plastic, water bottles, full imaging worshipful. Does my favorite thing, my kids feasting? They make their choosing a problem. The washing machine, bingo Bengal Bongo, they all small, great minutes there available in a ton of shapes styles and colors sea, could always find the ones that are right for you, but all that utility don't lose the headline Monica there so stylish, the colors are beautiful their exciting it's a great pop. There are key issues and I love it there. doing something with these reclaimed. Water bottles, which we need to figure something out for upgrade your closet with Washbowl sustainable stylish use am bags from rockies had dorothys dot com slashed Dax defined your new favorites. Today, that's raw fees are o t h. Why, as dot com slashed acts I will say I think it bumps up against a few kind of cornerstone history.
beliefs, one being give a man, a fish verses, give him a fishing pole right. There's this protestant kind of work ethic meat. I question my faith in and they all the time of via incentivize moving, city and I'll feed. You and how's your clothes, you I'm gonna. see that number go up. Six foam instead of me, discouraging rights. I have riddles with that. With that notion, I don't again my background. I think there are a lot of good people. I also think there's a lot of sheds and scumbags and free riders, and so it's like, I have fear of just incentivizing people to check out. So you know I can just be honest about me. I have fear of that. I tell you this. I am absolutely against insane advising people when I for when we think about the allowed certain problems in the community. I think the biggest questionable
brown community has been questions about reparations and they put it in the council Saying well, hey you fixed the issue with our jewish brothers and sisters. Now what about us? My problem is not that we don't need referees, lacked I truly than we do leave operations, but we need something over and above that that allows for that report she needs to happen in the miraculous way. We need to be taught how to fish yeah I remember welfare and I remember having blocks she's, my dear love had government cheese, it make the basic cheese with something about a man. I crave grave that government cheese. Now then, keep the can that do said, pork on it with a picture of a pig, but I want that cheese Nobody had ever had not acted Andalusia. It's like american jeez. What kind of hard it's gonna hurt you
in common trade is now the way because it is like a really good when you give people welfare and you dont also give people the two. who's that allows them to pull themselves up in you create a condition in their condition, is far worse and more expense. Absolutely because see the thing is this waiting about stuff like poverty, poverty? I truly believe poverty is, he did they, and I believe that now talk about this in my book. But I believe that, as we look back and we look things in. Of course, things are different today, but when we look the original like. If we said the origin story right, we said, hey will have things become the way they are. Then you realize that there are certain truths that are there. If you fail to teach people,
everything that they need to know they will begin to live in a struggle, mental. He is a viable mentality. What happens when you have to survive to live anything go absolutely, but if you teach people that day psycho social value imagined they start believing that does the things that I had to learn for myself cycles, personally I matter and if I'm matter the net music in terms of lighter. That means, I'm thought in community in society. That means that I have a voice that people want to hear what I have to say, and I think that, as the part that's important as well in the black Panthers, that they were the best examples of this in their true history, you could not addressed the people,
until you fed them the idea. Now, when they're dead, now you can begin to give them proper instructions agreed. We need to be able to, as you would say, not insensible No, absolutely not here, get help people just marking, but when people begin to realise that their value their worth their purpose, it's like you can literally great generational curses by believing in yourself you I get inside to your and allay my liberal bubble, which I am a liberal, but still are here. Someone complain. They can't believe someone doesn't care about climate change or they can't believe someone's not eating. Organic or they end. I think, they're not even fed like their car payments, lay data they can put gas in their car. Get you think that Of course they don't have room to be worried about that. They literally are trying to meet the most basic needs of being alive and caring for the people that depend on them. So, yes,
so agree with you that we need to meet people's base level needs so that other thoughts you have time for them that you can explore do you want to be? What store you're going to write about your own life, but if that's the way it's like, I got to get fed I gotta get ran. There's not a lot of extra bandwidth for What do I want to do on this planet and who do I wanna impact and all those things I think it's a luxury of having a needs met then just under the reparations thing, I dont personally think a check everyone is the move, but I do think of very substantial. I mean billions and billions endowment for every one of these programmes that can get people to base level that can give people educational opportunity that can give people that is so overdue, and I agree with you too. I would hesitate, you can't write a check and get out of this either
It's not just write a jack, it's not like! Oh here's, whatever we determine this year and now we're clean. That too, is a cop out. I tell you, it definitely is not the way to go, and I say that from having just finished Ramadan on the heels of fasting unfortunate as the person who did all of that and didn't get anything out of it other than being hungry it supposed to change you. It's a posted cause you to be a better person to appreciate different types of things. In life and then at the same time, the other the work that has to happen. You have to begin to continue to do the work and the cool thing about it is that you found out that you could do the work.
because you ve found that out now you know the truth that you could do it and you can keep on doing it as I think that that part is kind of cool as well. Just remembering right having those moments where you assess yourself and figure out, some things make a choice and move in that direction. Have a plan and their plan can just be a plan to party on. We although I hope even makes those plans as well hardy anger above I did, but if you're planning correctly, you can Yeah, that's the moves, so let us Better is your new book better. Not where is my actual memoirs were approaching? the two year anniversary of when they see us we are yeah well think yourself the other day O Koyo turned seventeen last month and while when we
you're sitting by, I think I'm gonna see and next week- and I was talking to reside here. What, if he's like tolerate them? It was for him to be grown by seventeen. My guys, that's one by the USA, and what impact do you think that movie is had that you guys have seen? How did an impact folks in your age group very common thing, people carbon tell news is that they are really difficult time watching it. I still have some friends. I haven't and passed the first episode, and I always tell them you know I'd like that's fine. To make sure that you always like read up on it as you get yourself nothing.
the biggest thing has come out of all of it is then started a conversation that we needed to start having the average innovation needs to get more involved. I mean you saw that with like voting this past year. People were really like going insane like everyone that can vote, but it does just about to go there, but it's not like they taught us a day teach me about this case in school now, yeah they should have amazing Dhabi, there's a lot more here when you learn where you have a class, I was taught jurisprudence. Oh here's, the history of our judicial system, its jury of your peers,. raining to add in their o p, as some significant percentage of the people we ve killed wherein is this in percentages been thrown in prison, illegally, because you would think that systems perfect. I thought we might arise, awesome yeah. We figured it out, throwing away backs like how you talk now: education, who knows if I learn that when I was
maybe I read randomly, I wanted the lawyer, because I want to stop totally. Hopefully when they see us is of her own packing people in that way, high school a middle school, I watch it with their parents and now I know why this is we still going on, I dont want to. How can I contribute to that change so you're, not, but I think in terms of impact as encouraging is a wonderful thing to think about. You suggest. Logistically, I'm just thinking about you in prison for seven years. Knowing you didn't do the thing. Are you trying to get out like or do go into some acceptance mode at some point, rigour like what this is it, I'm still escaping yeah. I still escaping there's not a day that goes by where the memories of where you were no matter how faint they become are still there
when you're in there you do come to appoint. Will you accept it, and you say to yourself You know what it is, what it is, but the problem in it Knowledge is this early on findings poem in reading it being blown away by a very succinct piece of poetry by guiding the teacher and what he said, as prison. Life in many ways can be likened to the woman. If the life inside become stillborn, the womb becomes the tune, and you gotta understand that for the rest of the world, when you see people return back to society who have been broken by the system, they look strong their eyes are dead. It's like the hope, is gone.
and for me it was one of those things that I knew I didn't want to die in prison. I didn't want to die of physical death, most importantly, but definitely not a spiritual death. Definitely not a mental that I wanted to thrive in Seoul, over and above accepting that it is what it is, then you realize that you have to figure out what to do. Why you're here, my grandmother would always say cast down your bucket over above some of the letters that she sent me. it was the blue mountain cards carefully placed into an envelope that was addressed to this character. The she was trying to make me into an I think, very brilliantly. She used these words master You still have some arm. It was telling me that even though not there with you, I need you to straighten your bag. I need you,
use your mind in such a way that should become a powerful. I need you to challenge yourself. Why unequal to do things that would cause you to become the personnel need to become, but even outside of that when you see: George, Can you see Brianna tell her when you see a shambles. They are a gardener by a tree by morning Those are just some of the names on an arbitrary realize that you always trying to escape because at any point in time to make it look at Somebody to look at Eton submitted, look at any one of us and say they have a weapon then a pass judgement on them and therefore we become another hashtag. Oh we're talking to you, your stories over right, like you, had this terrible miscarriage of justice, then you're exonerated. This is somehow got a happy ending. No, you get pulled over you're still in a much deeper.
Situation like this stories, not over its not been fixed, it's not your markedly less safe than I am the stories not over louder we're to be done- and I think you know better not bitter, is part of that right is part of a love offering dad I'm giving to the world that tells people that they, You can turn up their light. When you look at the real issue in America it looks very black and white, it looks very Reese. Oriented but then the rest of the world its night. It looks like people who look like each other or pressing each other, and so what you see and understand is that were really Talking about battling spiritual, goodness and high and low places. The first lady me. Obama. She said when they go Oh, we go high, but it's about actively participating in making sure that you always go because I think the more of us that turn a bottle. It's. The more must have vibrated higher levels,
better. The world becomes less people choose to do wrong things, evil things terrible things, and we know that this stuff still exists, but at some point it's on us to choose better for our own cells. I think, if I look at the central bank jogger case, it would have been great for the prosecutor to say to yourself. You don't write something. It's just not right. In this case, Let me read visit a few things. The police officers, who were experts at that point in time, needs with detectives that interrogated us. You couldn't even get into this detective. Unless you have twenty years on the job, so that made them an expert it they chose the higher road. Then they would have given themselves a legacy that would have been very different than the legacy that they left for their families. That's a hard challenge. People disassociate themselves because of that, but at the same time people were able to
lavishly to experience some of the best parts of life because they were promoted in their jobs given great vacations, because they did a great job until we found out that they did so rough. And had stored. Isn't it doesn't ever get easier man, it's our breaking, but at the same time, what an encouraging and totally inspiring story, because the saddest thing that could happen is they broke. This beautiful spirit you have which you have, that would have been the saddest thing and they did it. It's incredible, and I think to its great for to remember. We all have our challenge is none of our challenges are Brian hard as being imprisoned for seven years wrongfully convicted suggests. If you can and your spirit near humanity in your positivity, makes me think it's achievable for all of us So I really am. I really appreciate you and I think everyone should read better, not better.
I'm in AA. So everything goes that filter, but we have a saying which is Events are like drinking poison and hoping your enemy dies like that. So true that you're, the only one that suffers from that stuff. So both you guys so great to me, you- and I appreciate you both much, and I hope people read better, not bitter and reward when they see us to your anniversary absolutely further eating. You guys yeah, you too, even bigger through that organic cam lover or you gotta do is we're not gonna want on his plans, go there's image of yours guys were right.
Transcript generated on 2021-05-23.