Our basic freedom, is important and we ought to be left alone and part of that is freedom to trade with people and generally, that brings good sex welcome to the Sunday special we have on as our guest this week? John Docile, you know him from Fox NEWS and startled tv and all his to get a reporting? Let me get into libertarianism in small government regulations and all the rest been just one second, but first we are going to die. About your sleep quality says: there's nobody on the planet like you. Why would you buy it mattress bill for somebody else. You sleep built asleep with it takes two minutes to complete their use, the answers to matrimony type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress with Europe. I'd sleeper hot sleeper, whether you like a pleasure from bed with you. It's there is no more guessing. No more confusion I have to do is go to helix slipped up, calm, Slash Ben Gas, because they have a guest and take their two minutes legal age, and they will I too am Africa's that'll, give you the best sleep of your life for couples,

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come to your political viewpoint and how did your career progress in this direction? I graduated college and, like a lot of young people, I thought capitalism was okay, it brings us some stuff, but its cruel and unfair. And I went to every job interview I could and longest free trip was to Portland Oregon, where I ended up in a tv newsroom I'd, never watch tv news. I got my worst grades in English. I was just taken a year off before go into grad school of hospital, a management I thought. If I worked, I would learn to appreciate school more. The opposite happy I've never been more as day. You don't feel guilty about not having another reading and they pay you, and so I kept working in the newsroom. I never intended to go in the air, I'm must stutter, but they pushed me and I eventually overcame stuttering and I became to avoid

competing with people like you talk fast, I just wanted to cover something that other people weren't covering solves the time all people did was politics, the weather crime disasters. That was news. I thought this consumer issues out their psychology, medicine companies ribbon people off I'll. Do that and I did that and one nineteen Emmy awards bashing business, but I gradually watch the regulation that I was calling for and often getting. Sometimes politicians would say that was great. We're gonna pass a law to fix that in Oregon. They created department of Consumer affairs, but then I go back into the same story. We send a tv set out the twenty repair shops and eighteen would do with a loose part. Eighteen would say loose part no charge to would bring us

I'd, go back and say: would you ever do this? Oh, no, you! I will watch this play the video tapes and it was great television bashing business, but I then so we do it again now the Department of consumer affairs. The results of the same most people are honest, a few cheat. So, what's the department, a consumer affairs door, they have a big dreary room with a bunch of dreary people desks filling out forms. Now you have to get a licence to beef team, you repairman and supposedly that will screen. The bad guys, but it doesn't just let's and the ones who are sophisticated enough to know how to get the licence. The immigrant maybe works under beyond the law on the black market. Everybody has to pay a few pennies more to pay for the lawyers consumers no better off. So I started reading more. I didn't love the conservative press because it looked like your people wanted to police the bedroom.

Police the rest of the world, I lighted like there and I discovered reason magazine, and that was a Tiffany got. These people get it better than I do and I became a liberty. Let's talk about your your brand libertarianism, so I know there a bunch of current differences. That's of libertarianism, ranging from Gary Johnson who are libertarian to other folks who see significantly more hands off when it comes new regulations for example. What is your view on? One regulation is in wouldn't or necessary. Other situations where you think regulation is is something that no needs to happen. Yes, I think the constitution had part of it right wait wait we need rule of law. The worst places to live is the african country, where there is no rule of law and you're afraid to build a fact. Because your neighbor major steel, what you make or the dictator may take the whole factory, so we need cops and inaction not a stuff. That's in the constitution. I got one

further and say we need government for pollution control rules, some limit, parents would say. Well you can. I can sue you if you're smoke pollutes my air, but our legal system is so cumbersome. That's not practical so thank God for the EPA. The errors in the water have gotten cleaner and beyond that, just about nothing. Okay. So let's talk about you The taxation regimes alot of folks were in libertarian circles are deeply concerned about morality of taxes, I consider myself basin. Willebrod, Libertarian myself when it comes to be involved. I am very sympathetic to the Argo we met their taxation is generally thought that when someone put a gun in your face and then says, you need to give me your money for a purpose that I see fit, but that is a form of theft. But when his taxes but when is taxation not after their moral line that we can draw, because, obviously the government does have to provide certain services that you talked about if, if you're talking about the government, riding safety for your property, you new police force. If you talk

bout the goblin providing saved you from foreign invasion? You need, you need defence department. Is that sort of taxation theft? And Can you distinguish between Westampton? What's not think about it much, but I would say no it's if I am a member of this country and this country needs national defense, which it does and a local police Force and pollution control revolts government has to raise that money. Somehow and that's not theft. That's just the deed. And one of the questions that they often comes up in this context is you're. So how far does that go? So very often what you hear some folks on the left. Is the you didn't build that thing they got from Brok. Obama. Elizabeth, warn that, because the government provides row for example, and rule of law, that you didn't build, that the government really built at the government contributed to your success, how truest that and do. We need things like government, provided role in post offices. Not we certainly don't need government,

post office is ruled out as we obviously you Betty S. Fedex was interesting that the government could not get it there overnight and then fell. Ex did and now even you PS sometimes does if the private sector was building role one day? We would have more roads, he'd be smoother, they would be better, become a role for government. It would be better if they contracted is out not that people in government aren't necessarily just as bright, but the incentives are different. You can fire the private road builder. If you don't lie they did if he's great, he makes more money in government everybody its paid the same. It is almost impossible to fire somebody, so even if their great at the beginning say when the peace corps began, younger people looking to help people, Ten years later, when nobody gets can be promoted or fires that just eats away it, your wish to do better

So one of the questions folks, how about libertarianism? Very often this is usually the key question used according to debunk. It is the one you do about the folks who fall through the rats arguments are libertarianism is based on a certain notion that you have the capacity to reason, and you have the capacity to make decisions about euro lively should bear the consequences of the decisions that you make in your own life, but what about folks were not capable of making those decisions, children, people who are ill people who are handicapped What do we do about? Those spokes? Does government have a role there or is there something else that should pick up the slack? Something else should pick up the slack and it depends what you mean, but what should we do Is we government or as we individuals, I think we have a more duty to help those people, ballsy ignorant and the mentally ill. When governments steps in

it crowd out the voluntary organisations to do that better think about the depression to come much poorer. America was then twenty five percent unemployment way back when we had less money anyway, how many people start almost no one? Why? Because there were twenty thousand mutual aid societies around the country. All voluntary many of racist was Koreans. Helping Koreans are blacks, helping blacks, waits, helping white, but our group's knew better than government ever could who needed help and who needed a kick in the ass and it's just much more efficient charity now I realize it's not gonna happen there. We're gonna get rid of all this welfare. We have. We ve spent seventy one trillion since it began and I come in.

Princeton I was gone. Oh yes, we know how to solve poverty. My professor said it's an outrage in this rich countries that some people are poor, but then I watched these programmes fail. They just teach people to be dependent and if you look at the grass I have used this in my videos of the war on poverty in the poverty line, the worn poverty began and poverty rate dropped for seven years and after that, it's going up and down Improvements stopped because the government teaches people to be dependent. If you got a man in the house, your check goes down and then most interesting look at the chart from before the war on poverty. The slope of the line was about the same Americans were lifting themselves out of poverty, the war and peace already trillions of dollars, continued progress for five years and then stopped it. So what do you make of the new kind of left to argument with regard to the countries they admire. So for a long time for a decade

The Soviet Union was a place where they were kind of interest in the experiment and then for low wilder. Interesting though Travers instant Cuba for a while, but now the modern integration of the of the socialist movement is. Favor of social democracy, so they like Norway. They like Sweden. Are they like the nordic? his legs to trot out all the time, likes to trot out all the time. What do you make of the Argo cohesive that they are functioning well, that they have high a functioning well, but they have high standards of living and they also have massive for mental burdens that are driven by enormous regulations and tax rates well, first they're not really socialist and Denmark. Prime Minister, when tv to say a lark. A market economy were not socialist government does not trawl the means of production, that's the most important things the Navy countries? Don't even have a government minimum wage they do. We have a big welfare state and they can afford that because they are born

machine is culture and they have a fairly free private market to pay for it. On the economic Freedom index as they come out ahead of the United States? I don't know how Bernie calls on socialist. Do they innovate to they produce anything? It is that an accident that Facebook, Google and all these exciting wealth, creating companies you're pod CAS, have come out of sight. Places far away from Washington DC I'll? Take some yet, and that I think, is, is always the bidding. Yeah and then that I think is, is always the big distinction that folks filled makes it that socialism. These things in place and redistribute them, and Capitalism generates new and innovative the innovative methods, but when it comes to things like health care where, where the left really is putting its heavy focused these days, what they say is: ok, well, fines, we sacrifice low but of innovation, but there's an entire group of people who have pre existing conditions and they don't have a copy. City to pay for the health care that they need. So what

the best system for providing health care If we're not going to have some sort of baseline government provided healthcare, it would be presumptuous for me to say what the best system is. But what I ve learned is that the more market there is the better and poor people with a pre existing condition or not gonna have a market solution, but we haven't America Medicaid for poor people, Medicare Furl, US old people and no hospital emergency room turns away any poor person. We don't really have a free market system because the rest of it is paid for not by individuals but by insurance, companies or government. So what really works is when you go to the doktor and you say she doctors

we have to cost two hundred bucks. I paid for this myself and this is starting to happen with the health savings accounts company said it just having an insurance company pay, for they give you some money and you make some of those decisions and doctors often say really. Your pain, pan yourself like now in order to wait two months for the insurance company? Okay. Well, hundred dollars and then they don't even know where to put they haven't had a cash box for so but moving towards more consumer driven and than that means high deductibles, which nobody wants to hear about everybody hates that that's the only answer and burning single pay in Europe. You don't pay for anything that true ENG forget about nor England Canada, Australia and its true Europe pay, but the National Health Service in England was created the year I was born and in some cases

They still use their kind of technologies. Innovations stops in government, you just do you dont get in trouble. If you do what you did before somehow going down the litany of things that folks think government is necessary for one of the other one there aspects, it folks say the government is necessary, where is the public education system, they suggested without a school system that children will illiterate- that parents will not put their kids in schools that poor parents will be able to put their kids in places they can get educated. What do you make it argument in favour of public education. I, certainly would have believed that when Horace Man said this gonna end crime. We just need. We have experts, we need to have government run thus, but it's the same problem. Innovation, stop we're still teaching kids the way we taught them a hundred years ago. It's always especially, are all watching settlement, the desks and miserable in school. The girl, the girls, do better

and then you look at success, academies in New York, these private charter schools for the minority, kids are getting top great there are better ways to do it and there too, the only thing that works is competition. Attach the money took in New York there spend than like fifteen sow per kid to the mass at three hundred four hundred thou per classroom. Think what you could do with that. Many more with that money, higher three great teachers. Where does the money go? Nobody knows it's a government monopoly. It just disappears, but if he had vouchers for some system that attaches, money to the kid schools would compete to get the kids you to get the good kids. They would show the slow learners the state can set up. A sister were, if you are a special, aids. Child you're voucher is larger, but that kind of competition will always do better then one size fits all government chose. Second, I want to ask you about why libertarianism hasn't really become law,

popular in the United States. It was politically but first we have to talk about your impending doubts up you're in it. I started break it That's why you need life insurance, life insurance? Isn't the most enjoyable thing to talk about, because most people don't to think about how they're gonna plots but actually having life insurance is a pretty good feeling. It's nice to know that, if anything were to happen to me, my family wouldn't have started, though fund me to stay afloat. Policy genius is the easy way to get life insurance online. In just two minutes you can compare quotes from the top insurers to find the best policy for you and when you can there are you save money? It is indeed that simple policy genius, over four million people shop for insurance placed over time billion dollars in coverage. They dont just make life insurance easy. They also combat disability, insurance and auto insurance and home insurance. If you care about it, didn't cover itself. If you believe but in getting life insurance, because it's gonna talk for confusing, give policies. Try or policy genius tat come and get your quote supplied minutes into the whole thing right now on your phone just pause this and go: do it how's he doing you start comments, the easy way to compare and by life insurance again they make

insurance; incredibly easy and you're, not being responsible dulled. If you don't have life insurance. Because again I promise you there's one thing guaranteeing your life you're, gonna blots, so policy This will make it a little bit he's Yonder family when you dropped at the kitchen hip hop good check it out policy genius. I've got ok, so I've never heard plot yiddish blots feel over. But look here, So why is libertarianism not more popular it seems to me a year at again. I have heavy look. And sympathies and leanings. What I've always said is that I think that the future of the conservative, movement. It is isn't a basic conservative, libertarian merger, where concern has acknowledged the libertarians, are right about government and libertarian signal the conservatives are right about the necessity of a social fabric, because it seems to me that a war The problems I see was in talking to. Why libertarian is there so much folk, on what the government shouldn't do, that there is very little focus on what we should be as human beings where virtue comes in where social institutions necessary is a sort of now?

friends, because somebody that's directed at sometimes religious institutions, because YO ignorance or promoting ignorance. Why do you ignoring or promoting ignorance Crossover between libertarianism and a certain sort of secular atheists, and it seems like a lot of areas of libertarian movement, because most of the argument is economics. That's what it was for me was my aha moment did I became a born again free market segment. Clearly with life. I see how religion keeps families together brings people together and that that those wonderful thanks and religious people are happier. I wish I was this religious. Is you work as it brings people a lot of good stuff in life Why hasn't libertarianism libertarianism become more popular? Maybe because of that or my basic answer is, I don't know it's killing at that I've been hot, my wife is leftists whether one

When I married her now she's moves, she would say to the middle, but she still wakes me up with believe that look at this. What the New York Times said. What about these people? Government asked and take care of these people, and I are I sort convince her was my argument, but the next day it happens again, is in certain peoples, women more often in their got there's this feeling that government has to take European and us governments, and that's why? I think that this is where, if the libertarian movement were to focus a little bit more on the creation of that social fabric, they would do better just in terms of edge, because the reality is that human being exist in terms of identity, both individuals and also as members of community libertarian. Seeing the government is an overarching for which it is they say. Well, you know we are in visuals, primarily, but that neglect The fact that we do have this got instinct to try and help other people, and we want to get together and help other people, and so the EU.

What was things I've ever libertarians to do is reach out to religious communities and make libertarian argument for why religious communities are necessary. Why you do need those back stops. Those charities why you do need a social fabric built, side of government, because I think the picture folks luxuriance. Basically the Libertarian Party convention, which is bunch people talking bout, legalizing pot, getting rid of sea bout laws and everything will be ok. What? What do you think the Ford facing pitch for libertarianism should be because that is like I saw just this morning. I saw a clip of the twenty seven, the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen primary debate among the libertarian already candidates and Larry Elsa was moderating it and letters preparing liver and Larry was was asking about seatbelt laws and everybody sort of solemnly people that there should be no seat before laws, except for Gary Johnson who said well, maybe people have to have a license before they drive? Now, I'm actually sympathetic to the argument that see that done. Or owes a driver's license question dreaded driver's license laws are, are silly and ate the slut for it,

hit somebody than he had soon. That's that's the way it works, but the the enthusiasm in the room for get rid of drivers, licences seems not the smartest outward facing pitch to the american public. I agree, and I am frankly, okay with driver's licence is because you see the person the reckless person he doesn't have any money they pay. He has no disincentive to learn how to drive. So when you you're threat when you're potentially threatening a lot of other people, is pretty amazing. We allow if they would never be allowed to day if somewhere, if we were using Worse still, someone said I have a new form of transport. It'll it'll be less so at waste pollution, but more air pollution, good trade office stuff on the street, the needs cleaning up and but we're gonna people will drive them at fifty mb. For our inches from pedestrians. There would never be approved today, the sea

built laws. I think are more interest interesting case, because that's your own body and studies have shown that when people wear seat belts, they drive faster that these things have on the ten the consequences one economist made the point that the biggest car safety device would be spite coming off the securing wheel, cause you drive horses, but Why body? I should decide whether it were asleep. Interestingly, think that about drivers licences word you draw, the line on occupational lies, saying so. We ve talked about how they should be non even for doctors and lawyers. People assume that if the government doesn't protect us we're unprotected, but if it weren't for that licensing, consumer groups,

Do underwriters laboratories, consumer report, somebody would set up a private testing operation, they would rate doctors and lawyers, and you wouldn't just pick one. You would go check. The guide and you'd know something. Maybe this guy gets a BBC cheaper and that's my choice, but now you just assume the government is doing it usual. Their sleep and then they aren't and were less safe. So why do you think the libertarian? What we don't argue, Libertarian Party voted for small you having boat, I generally libertarian Party all vote for Larry Sharp this year in your he's, usually sharp, Libertarian so your laws across borders thoroughbred earnest- I don't know why I mean again- is it? Is it possible that it's just a lack of? internal cohesion among libertarians minutes, it's always hard to group individuals at any time you try to get people into in one box, people tend to climb out, particularly if that a libertarian. What,

let's say, you're running, libertarian. Pardon you want to fix this because it was. It was a source of great frustration. Me during the last election cycle has looking at both these candidates. In going you ve got to be kidding me and then They looked at a libertarian party and Gary Johnson over their slumming Aleppo and I mean well, what can anything you'd understand, libertarian party, or is it basically just a giant scam for leadership, make a certain amount of money. Now it's a scam they are there. They are dedicated people who believe in the stuff and our try. But it's tough. It's a two party country people. We pay attention to people listening and watching now pay attention. It said one percent of the people make things happen: nine percent, while

to make things happen. Then that's your audience in my audience and ninety percent of the people wake up the next day and say what happened. I think it's true cause. People are thinking about their families and their religion and movies and music and making money and their friends and sports and they're not paying attention to politics. Suddenly there asked to vote and half those people than do vote. They vote who woods, republican or Democrat, better They don't pay attention long enough to hear the libertarian argument, since the better to try and take over the Republican Party from within, as opposed to try and running libertarian Party from without you think. Maybe I, when I first woke up, I sought good Democrats would be more willing to embrace these ideas. Cause you, religious conservatives, its moral. You can't argue with that, and I went to father of one of the key

at my kids, school had a radio show, so I is a smart guy went to Harvard. I can convince him on this radio show about the folly of the welfare state. Guy got the facts and that was L, Frank, any ended up screaming at me, and I could never make a date. A dent with the left PETE appeared the anchor man in the hallway re BC would turn away when he saw me because, after years of being liberal, basher business? I was now defending capitalism and criticising government. Suddenly I was no longer objective and I was Never one another em your horse and they were angry people were somebody came up to me in the street in New York and certain drowns docile. I hope you die so well. This is just and the anger was from the left that I was a kid, somewhere reporter criticising government protecting people wanting. I is a big libertarian

love. I only philosophically, if not politically, openly among young people, because there is basically since it has been reached on social issues other than abortion, which people based we say good you what you want. Nobody cares leave us alone and that Do you think that there's hope with with young people, because the leave me alone seem seems to be picking up some ground, Minister, that I spent young people, because the leave me alone theme seems to be picking up some ground amidst a theme that I spent an awful lot of time? Pushing myself whenever I go to college campuses, which is stay out my business I'll stay out of yours and you know you're happy worry about my religious institution, because I don't care about yours just do what you want, basically as loans hitting anybody else in the face. I think that's a resident message with a lot of young people, but you are getting. Again? Details is always a bit of a mistake: teeth juicy moving liberty, a kind of creeping libertarian, that's that's rising up a little bit creeping that's not good enough and

far more are showing up at Bernie rallies with their fantasies about socialists and what was so, let alone a move into the drug area for a second. So this is obviously one of the area and serious contention and its work as a cross cutting Are some people on the right like me who are in favour of marijuana decriminalization? There's some people all who are still do warriors on the left you, a lot of folks, are still drug warriors and some people who are in favour of legalization when Should drugs be decriminalized. When should they when should they remain criminal? If a? If ever I think they should all be criminalized today and there could be rules, states can pick what the age of majority is it? Sixteen eight twenty one, but do we owner or once you're an adult, though we own our own bodies- and you makes a marijuana point which is easier to write chest. But I've come to think that if you on your own body into your choice and the

scares about the worst of all crack are not accurate, that there always are gonna, be surges of good and bad drugs legal. Illegal will go up. People will see the harm from the bad ones. They'll go down. The laws only make it worse by driving an underground and creating a criminal network. It's too powerful rich mothers who hears it, here's the libertarian counter argument or quasi libertarian counter argument with regard to things like Heroin, so that the better generic when I first her by George Goldberg, so the the fundamental based of libertarianism is obviously the capacity of each human being. To reason, when you you do stuff, a reason magazine is the idea that we all have the ability to think maker national decisions and then live with those rational decisions. Drugs at least hard drugs like Heroin, rob you have that, like it you're on heroin you're, not thinking you're, not capable of of fully Rational thought, you're, not capable of making choices. Addiction has basically taken over the real ration

centres of your brain, where he supposed to go from there. Do you think that there's a decent counter argument libertarian position on this, based on the idea that once people have been robbed of their individuality, incapacity to function as human beings by these drugs that we ve normal out of the realm of your body, your choice or, if you ve, been robbed of your computer city for choice? Yes, but no because Did prohibition work? Well, alcohol rob can rob you of Europe's ability to make good choices and banning it made sense these worse than other radiations, though I mean alcohol, you, you have to buy an awful lot of alcohol to be robbed of your of your choice and apparently there are plenty of people who are heroin addicts in Europe who go to work saw it? Does it mean masses problem we the worse, but I would still say in a free country: It ought to be your choice if you want to poison yourself. So what

talk a little bit about the american constitution so my view, the american constitution is the single greatest piece of of for mental literature ever written. It says a brilliant way of attempting to balance out some checks and balances and others from libertarian scepticism certain elements of the of the constitution, how do you feel about it that this system that the founders put in place? Do you think that it was stringent enough and in reducing the size and scope of government? Is it that we stress from the constitution, or is that the fault were built in that we now have this gigantic massive overcome government I think it was pretty good, except for the lack of pollution rules and slavery. But if you, when I read what they rode, they were vigilant about the growth of government. We have to guard against this. How can we guard against this because it's the natural progress of things Jefferson for government to grow and liberty to yield and they wrote down, but

a piece of paper. Isn't enough to stop this trend has wherever there are rulers wherever there are Donald Trump people will want to say that today, hard to fight that. That's part of the thing that I found so fascinating about some of the the trumpets sentiments on the right, so as part of the thing that I've found so fascinating about some of the the trumpets sentiments on the right? So I think that from his govern much more conservatively than I thought he would have faced it is apparent ease have the hour is correct, but there there a lot of trump fans who are, in some ways, almost indistinguishable, philosophically from Bernie Fence, we hadn't, the Karlsson, a couple of weeks, and took Tucker was extraordinarily interventionist when it came to the economy I he was, talking about how he wanted he actually said outright that he would bands self driving cars, for example, because it gets rid of trucking jobs, he's very much in favour of terrorists and all the rest of the scar. What happened I used to be so good

on this? Yet again? And I wonder if it's just human, each too to that were fighting against their innocence. Libertarians are basically fighting against the natural drive of human beings. To look for man made solutions to problems that cannot be alleviated by man made solutions. It is, possible to fight him nature and if so, what are the sort of war He lets a your constructing an educational system for a young person, and I get this a lot which books should people what what what are the ideas they should engage with so young you you're talking to a kid, is five years: older, their parents, trying to educate them to become. A free market. Free minded individual. What's Eritrea start them on how well, what's that dialogue like Comics one easy lessened by Hazlet ATLAS shrugged is a good god. Give me a break by me Milton Friedman, free choose but

Most young people want read books, swine. I videos you mentioned Tucker, Just released a video on Amazon Jeff be sauce, and it was I started it with a video defending bays basis against burry, saying how dear Bernie attack this man, who, yes he's the richest man in the world, but he's made us all Richard by lowering prices so much the FED, even lowered its inflation rates and they pay. Amounts in taxes and their investors pay lots of money and taxes. He's good for American he's being tracked. But I midway through writing this peace and bases caves in to the progressive, and says yeah. I want to raise all my workers to fifteen bucks an hour cutting off performance bonuses stupidly. Perhaps still it's his company can do there. You will find very good workers for that, but

Then he goes on and says: I'm going to la be like another craven opportunist rather than a capitalist. I'm going to lobby government to force every company to pay fifteen dollars to get rid of the competitive advantage my competitors would have, and since I got lots of robots, replacing workers, I'm going to really crush these guys if they have to pay fifty bucks an hour said capitalism's biggest enemies are often capitalist yet this is, I think, a great point: the dead. Libertarians I wish would make more often because the kind of power in the sky rosy view of framework It is always the people going to act morally within free market, but the truth is thereby people as long as it big government capacity out we're gonna. Take advantage of. That is why, when folks say will big businesses is capitalism, yeah. I can come back to this and I think that this is any business that human beings are willing to take advantage of each other, which is why you do need. I was Jack you coming back to this and I think that this is the Nazis promote mount ideology, but I'm going to kill myself for the dead

you do need a tremendous focus on bringing up virtuous people in a free system if the free system is going to last week's other otherwise people just going to try to pervert? Did system for their own ends, which is exactly what you're talking about with bases and when we will say capitalism is our crony capitalism, that economic fascism is exactly the same sort of state sponsored monopolies and that you are seeing in in early host Weimar Germany. So it's it's! It's really I think it's necessary for libertarians, and I include myself in this number to spend it off what, if I'm teaching people that their virtue is necessary That's why you know it's. The markets are greatly This is where this is, where I think Adam Smith differs from the Lord Mandeville bees metaphor, Adam Smith, recognised or others of their there's, a very famous tat. There is attractive, Britain for Adam Smith, all about I forget the name of the tract buyer is written by Mandeville and was basically the it's a piece of paper

trades like five hundred lines about the economy of the bees in his basic idea. Is that economies develop because people have vices private vices become public, but Jews. In other words, you want to buy a nice piece of jewelry and therefore creates economic growth because you want something that you didn't have before, and maybe it's coming from selfishness or agree, righted sort of an adjustment watching it is a vice most of my wanting. It would be the vice in this particular in this particular area, but what I'm spits as an he's crack. Is that, while that's true with regard to vices that are not in her we damaging to the system, their voices that are inherently damaging to the system, and so we have to teach people that freedom and only preserved by people who actually spend an awful lot of time. Thinking about virtue sets bigger than I can. I can digest who were put into one of my five minutes. Videos. You have a little it. Let's talk about for a second, the the charges, the hard for a basis to resist she's, almost not doing its duty to his shareholders. When there's this month, your government over here

doling out, for you have put your borders. Here I'll give you a tax break some ways: he'd be a fool not to ask for the only solution is to shrink the state, and why did you pan and Germany do so well after world war. Two because we bob lemme smithereens and they had to start over and they got rid of all the guilds and the special interest that were holding progress back and then they grew so fast. The horrible, the poorly depressing idea to say. That's the only way to stop the growth government, but maybe it is I'm not gonna go to bombing flavouring United Heather raining. They add, I'm just saying you, we ask me: how do we convince ribald? Can we teach virtue- and I dont know that you can what let's talk about foreign policy. This is an area where there is wide for education between sort of conservatives and libertarian positions ran Paul made this most obvious in TWAIN. Sixteen when he was seen a sort of an early front runner for the nomination,

two thousand and sixteen, and then he started focusing instead of his father's fashion on foreign policy more than he was focusing on domestic policy, because when it comes to domestic staff, run Moran all and probably wrong Poland. I agree on ninety percent of things and when it comes, foreign policy. Then we have a parting of the way. So where are you on foreign policy. What what do you think the role of the? U S, Government is Annie. An international same, keep us safe and fights, Moral wars on rare occasions and get out as quickly as you can and don't nation built an don't, have troops and the seventy countries we have troops and now because we make more enemies. Then we kill what what what to make of the argument that basically we are. Whether we like it or not? This has been thrust upon us the other than most powerful country on the planet that we have free connections with state all over the world that those foreign markets

in order for them to remain open. We actually do you have to have a somewhat stable international system and that the ECB, analyses of of things around the world have pretty significant pact on on America more so than then? Maybe one, no acknowledge because they're just too many situations in which something that happens, and we say: ok well, how's that possibly do no effect as the next thing you know it is to take revenge. Although the situation in Syria, which really has no impact on us except the massive micro way. That is now swamp, governments in Europe and what this once I mean the Syrians are coming in, and voting people out, I'm in reaction to that has actually toppled governments in Europe. Who created all sorts of new issues against immigration. Standing against free trade what do you want to make that argument that we don't have a choice? Basically, what we we ought to decide what the mission is and make some choices idle presume to know what we should do about Syria and a lot of these hard cases, and it's not my area, specialty ice free

stick to economics but policing the seedlings? China wants to keep molten too, because if there isn't free flow of traffic that hurts their people, Europe wants to keep them, keep them open. So does Brazil it doesn't need to be all up. The United States, and how would you feel if you came home to your neighborhood? store in their foreign troops, speaking a foreign language wearing foreign uniforms in your neighborhood and they have some power over your cousins and uncles. I'd be pissed off and I would hate America for their and John Bolton, the Fox Ass, a friend and g. I assume agrees with you and I would argue with him on this. Is the wrong Paul argued, but what about blow back didn't we when we drawn and kill an alleged terrorist and Afghanistan. Don't we.

Enemies of all of his cousins and little brothers and as technology gets better soon. They're gonna put some atomic bomb and certain this small it'll be easier to kill us with. Isn't it better? If we don't make us many enemies and Bolton brilliantly would answer with things like well when I was sitting with Nixon and when I was in the cave in this place, and I would just get lost in the fascinating story in Several shows and one long dinner. I don't think I ever got a good answer. I mean something: standard- that is a lot of these votes, wanna tell us anyway. I mean they did drawn a terrorist there's a decent shot that that terrorist was was interested in killing. You in his friends were interested in killing you in the first place I'm not in interventionist and a lot of these areas? I was against the war in Libya, for example, but it did, but by the same token, it is interested in off the calm here and do it. I don't think so well, I'm in, but that now at nine. Eleven was just listen,

because We weren't involvement, Afghanistan before nine, eleven and and they weren't from Afghanistan they worse. Bodies were mad that american troops were all over the Middle EAST, but has erected from Afghanistan of Islam and who has been London in Afghanistan being held by the Taliban right and that justify our going in there to take out Bin Laden and the people who directly assaulted us, but I think they wanted to kill us because we have troops in them. ITALY's so do you think that the best approach with with countries like China, for example, which are seen by a lot of folks as real foreign policy threat? I is open and you think that economics converts these countries too, to your better ways of life or it's just who cares we may so afraid with them. I think it might open them up to a smarter way of life said if goods cross borders, armies Dalton, you dont want to kill people who you trade with and in general, to improve things. I'll think it'll work miracles. They still may want to crush us in some other way, but

unilateral trade, disarmament and live thing. Crop is re wrong, as tariffs would benefit them and us I think that the so the counter argument on There- and that would be that it is the kind of Mcdonald's fury of of A policy which is the golden arches theory that countries that have Mcdonald Zone have wars with us that the Inn in light of the world where one there actually was significantly increased world trade, including with Germany and within Europe, and then whether one broke out an ideology still has a tremendous role to play in human action and been the buildings are not necessarily driven purely by economic concerns. In this is that I think this links up with a with a broader critique of libertarianism that I've heard from folks in, Sort of mainstream conservative circles which is libertarianism, is relying on a view of human nature that is not inherently can Serbia is relying on a view of human nature that we are essentially materialists will malleable and materials sewed. So that not only are we malleable in terms of our nature that you know

sums will make us better, but also we are but also we are materialist in that. If we Sperience better economic times, then this makes us less likely to do bad things, and that's actually kind of fundamentally non conservative in a certain way right, because the linkage between poverty and crime is to my mind, less significant to linkage, routine values and crime, and the same thing would hold true on foreign policy. You can have rich countries that are, for doing tremendous evil against their own citizens. Only give poor countries where you can support for this. Weekend's are poor countries pursuing true prince tremendous good for their citizens that doesn't really work, but you can have ritual. Is the pursuit, tremendous evil. Obviously, here I dont claim that rate is going to solve that making people richer will solve these problems. Revolutions poor are more, likely to rise up when there, incomes are going up than when their suffering and misery

libertarianism, doesnt claimed to have the answer to all these problems. But it does say our basic freedom is important and we ought to be left alone, and part of that is. Freedom. To trade with people and generally that brings good things Ok souls all wore these progress. Let's try, about trade, for a second is obviously become deeply controversial. I'm a free trader are the only two. By everything that that trade should be curbed. Our wood b for actual national security reasons. Your war was somebody or something, but there are a lot of folk who have been focusing in recently on the idea that the downsides, Frazier outweigh the the upside of trade. They look at a towns or or an CAS hazard as a new book out that is kind of along these lines in us fascinated by. He has a trappers but he basically says that we have missed the boat. In the western world in thinking that material prosperity is the goal of the economy without a certain amount of job involvement or employment material prosperity.

It does not solve the probably means by that is. He suggests there are two main models that are now being pursued by people who are not libertarian. Number one. Is there a bunch of rich people, their bunch of poor people who are being left, but and because of advances in the economy as we move to an iq based economy, as opposed to a back breaking labour based economy, and that means people are getting left behind, what happen? to all of those people. Ok. Well, we let the economy spring ahead, but we redistributing wealth from here there and that's all placate everybody. That's theory, number one theory number two is that we actually put in place regulations, to prevent the economy from spring. It had far enough so that those people are left behind what's your view on what we do with folks, if The singularity is coming for moving toward a more an internet based economy? What do we do with all the folks who, could be out of a job and ten years as automation takes over for them, we had more trade. Than up to Trump and unemployment is at remarkably low number people worried when ninety percent of them

people work on the farms, what are they? What are all those people? to do what are all the secretaries gonna do if they lose their jobs or their telephone switchboard operators, they all lost their jobs and more people, I human in Nobody is such the beauty of the Schuman brain define new things to serve people now, a lot of smart art. Fulfil intelligence? People say this: time. It's different this time there all we need a guaranteed basic income, which I think would be a terrible thank as we purpose and work, but men until that happens, to try to manipulate the economy to prevent growth. I just think his crew ok. So let's talk for a second about the technology companies he mentioned earlier. Amazon. There's been a lot of talk in writing, circles recently and left wing circles always because there's always talking muffling circles that regulation they caught me. Right! That's why they're all over the media about

about regulating companies like Google and Facebook. These can a massive companies that have all sorts of information on us that we voluntarily given them. But now they have. You know in the view of some serve a monopoly on this? What what do you make of the argument in favour of regulation of of companies like Google or Facebook and manipulate of informational access, bad idea, because whoever does the regulation will make things worse and we ve all entirely gave met information? They have it, they they sell it. People steal it, except for identity theft. So what I've lost my privacy, I already have enough enemies in New York is a man from the left, whose moves the libertarian that I figure this some eighteen year old kid in the apartment, next or whose stealing my emails anyway, with the idea that the government is going to make that better is terrifying also if it gets really bad. If Google starts doing horrible stuff and look, I tried when they fired James two more

saying something original ball about gender differences. I said screw them, I'm to go to bang and I'm not going to use, but a b summer reacting? If I couldn't even do it so there too big, but the government has no way to make it better and if they gets horrible government does have the guns and The end government could all this step in so many other areas where folks shock about global regulation mentioned in the context of the environment is in the area of global warming. So people are deeply concerned over the the climate changing it seems that? the vast majority of scientists agree that the climate is growing warmer to what extent we still don't know, and the vast majority also agree that whatever warming has occurred over the past, century yourself is at least, majority attributable to human activity. How worried are you about global warming? What role does government have in regulating environmental emissions? For example? In this particular area, because libertarian

so basically been called sceptics in climate deniers because of their because of their hands off approach. Where are you on this? I still see how you could deny a climate, because we have climate in climate changes and is getting warmer has been getting warmer. I don't know that is so clear that man does most of it. Certainly man does some of it, but I don't think this necessarily agreement on that. But the next two steps of the important ones will it a disaster, and can we do anything about it so the disaster part B. We have disastrous. We have a million people dying of malaria in dysentery and the world we have problems were economic growth would really help and stifling that in the name of this possible problem, There are smart people who say it may be good. You'll,

RO more stuff in Canada. There's there are fewer deaths in heat waves than in cold webs we can adjust. We can pull back from the oceans a keeps warming. There may be natural things more warm water means more evaporation, means more clouds, and maybe this will stop. Naturally, We don't really know how big a crisis it is, but certainly it's no crisis is big enough to waste money. Doing nothing and that's what the billions of dollars for spending now is doing. Nothing is that the earth won't notice is arrogant for man say that by buying a previous driver or outside Stuteley, that's gonna make any difference, and even, if

I India weren't continuing to build old plants with the technology we have now. It's not gonna help, but if we don't bankrupt ourselves and stupid, mandates for wind power and nonsense, like they're in ten years will be much richer and then, if we knew- more about the problem. Then maybe we can do something about ok, so John, I do have one final question for going to ask you why you don't just four presidents on a libertarian ticket. But if you actually like to hear the answer, you're gonna happen subscribes describe. I have to do is, however, Delaware. Dotcom, slash, subscribe and then you'll be able here, the end of our conversation there so Johns docile think so much for coming in really appreciate. Go check your stuff out its docile tv revenue, video coming at every week or every week s libertarian yells short enough? Not to be boring, appreciate things are much more saddened by thinking,

the producer math is glamour edited by Alex Syndrome. Audio is mixed by dealing case. Parent make up is by just one other entitled graphics by Cynthia and Ruler Ben Shapiro. Show Sunday Special is a daily wire forward. Publishing production copyright for publishing twenty eighteen, wishing twenty eighteen.