Simply by virtue of being on a college campus. You have at your finger tips the thing that fell sold, his soul, for which is not ullage, and yet students are encouraged to think of themselves as victims. Here we are the Sunday special with Heather Mcdonald, and I cannot wait to ask her about her new book. The diversity delusion we're going to talk about the meat we're going to talk about racial diversity on campus, the quest for diversity will talk about policing and crime, all sorts of great topics with Heather Mcdonald, but first, let's talk about what smart figure yeah, who you need to hire to take your business to the next level in twenty nineteen, I mean I look around my staff, and most of them are pretty good, but there are a few faces. We know you could upgrade. That's why world look ziprecruiter start the year off strong by going to ziprecruiter dot com, Slash Ben guests to hire the right people, like other job sites, zip recruiter finds qualified candidates. Just for

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right out. So let's talk about your book that adversity delusion. So, first of all, why should anybody care about college campuses? And what I hear from a lot of conservatives is that basically, college campuses are place for the french people get out of college, and then they are in in the real world. They have to pay taxes, they have to be integrated into society and grad They become more conservative. So why are we wasting all this breath worrying about engender pandering at the university level, because in gender studies, one hundred and one now it does not stay put. If anything should have told us this, it was that Brett Kavanaugh hearings, where you had it, wrecked transmission belt from academic rape, culture, nonsense into the Senate, Judiciary Committee, this is very scary, stuff. The whole beliefs server

I wrist mantra that was put out. There was a hash tag during Brett Kavanaugh, that is, the egg identical travesty, odd, destroying due process, destroying the presumption of innocence that now reigns supreme on college campuses. White males basically are under a death sentence in this culture today, there's not a single mainstream institution that is not using radical race and gender quotas to hire again this is something that comes out of the identity. Politics of the university. It is transforming in our world, I'm very familiar with that argument that the market will take care of it. An Michael Barone, a wonderful Washington journalist, wrote a whole book about that. That seemed plausible at the time that their soft America, which is the universities and Hard America, which is the rigor of the marketplace,

and that all these black studies, majors women's studies, majors, would just have to grow a backbone as soon as they got out. Unfortunately, that prediction has not hold true: it's it's the universities that are remaking the academic world in their image. Well of folks, I left would sort of counter this by saying that you know not only does white privilege exists. Not only do white people have a long history of dominating politics in the United States, but the statement that, for example, White men are under serious assault in the culture that that's overstated. White men are still doing generally. Okay, wait still earn pretty well and by the way, white men have a long history of dominating a lot of institutions in the United States? It isn't it time for them to take a back seat. How do you respond to that? No, they only, should matter is Merritt at I don't care. Happened in the past. There is no way that lowering your meritocratic standards in order to compensate for real or perceived, and phantom

racism or sexism in the past. Does this any good today? And it's simply not the case today- that white males are dominant Are there again, there's not a single mainstream institution, whether it's the media? That is not twisting itself into knots for diversity? for running by lines by diverse names? Content? publishing. Houses are scrutinizing their publishing lists to engineer diversity. Are you basically, as a white male. You have to be something that we heard about for blacks in the 90s. You have to be twice as good to get looked at, and this is explicit. You know you have corporations signing on to these pledges to be fifty thousand fifty female by two thousand and twenty and they mean it. This is this. Is something that is very real and is transforming our culture. One of the complaints that you hear about the meritocracy in this is not just a template that I think exists on the left is now. I think in fact, in parts of the populist right is the are

and the meritocracy is itself a sort of track system that basically, the society is going to break into the people who have intellectual merit. Is it's going to leave everybody else behind and the cure for that is sort of these forced diversity systems, taking into account other other fat there's other than merit in a particular field, because if we have a meritocracy than the people who are the best, things are the only people who are going to succeed. What do we do with the folks who are succeeding in a meritocracy, whatever their race and and gender. Well, how about we get rid of the ridiculous idea that everybody should go to college? and that the only way you can have dignity in life is to have some white collar jobs that you've picked out after getting your communications or or marketing major a which is a completely bogus site goal for university. They should be not involved in that type of very odd nuts and bolts vocational work. There is honor.

And virtue and accomplishment in working with your hands in keeping our society going in in making things. But we have this- insane idea where we only valorize jobs that purports to require a college degree. So I think you know there is some problem, I'm not necessarily a utopian when it comes to robots, I think there's a problem there. Leaving aside the weather technology, will cause some. Major dislocation where less cognitively demanding jobs are really moved into automation. I still think that there's plenty of things for people to do that don't require a Google level. You know intellect ok. So let's talk a little bit about the ideas that are being pushed on campus. You talk about them at length in the diversity delusion. Let's talk about some of the buzz word, so

the me to movement obviously has gained enormous amounts of steam, not just on the college campuses, but also in the broad mainstream culture. You talk in the book and and more generally about the inherent contradictions of the me too movement. What's wrong with the me too movement. Well, because it has now devolved into a quota system if this would stayed put to simply be okay, we're going to take out the most egregious sexual harassers, that's perfectly legitimate. Because there are some guys that are exploiting their workplace power that have lost any sense of male chivalry thanks to the liberation and you absurdities like like Louis ck masturbating in front of females, this is something that was really unthinkable. I think in the 1950s, if that was its only goal, that would be but it is immediately morphed into a system of spoils. So that again, are you have Hollywood pledging, for

a certain amount of females in directing Indiana writing script. Writing, which I love, because to the extent that Hollywood casts its side, it's ruthless box office judgment for the take of diversity. I love the Hollywood. Moguls are not going to be able to pull in the billion dollar bucks that allow them to fly across the world in their private jets. Well, proclaiming the for climate change. You know carbon taxes, but other other are that are also, in the wake of the Me Metoo, quote insanity that should worry us are things like the science fields, the so called stem fields, science, technology, engineering and math, which have now where selves to the idea that the only allowable explanation for the lack of fifty and fifty parody, in a theoretical physics lab, or a a computer engineering department? Is sexism

discrimination, and that is simply false. I mean this is the one of the things that absolutely drives me up. A wall is the assumption on the part of folks who are on the left that if there is any sort of disparity, this is clearly due to discrimination. If there's a disparity between men and women in the stem fields, it's due to discrimination, even when you have countries in the nordic states, where the amount of focus that's been put and gender disparity is enormous and the stem disparities actually growing these. It turns out that women don't want to join into stem industries in the same the men want to join into stem This reason this goes to a lot of the stuff that you talk about in your and more generally, which is a cultural and we've all made now there is a disparity. It is due to discrimination and therefore we have to something about the discrimination by changing the underlying policy, and that's I don't wear preemptively your positions on crime, but this is sort of the argument that you've made in the past about criminal law disparities, so to get broader, take on and criminal justice reform, I was become a hot issue on the right and the left the Trump Administration has to form of criminal justice reform. I first want to get

general take on on what that criminal justice reform system was whether that was a good idea or bad idea. Well, this all your talk about the first step back to be honest, and I'm agnostic about it, because I think that all sentences are arbitrary. It's not as if there's a platonic ideal for dealing meth or dealing crack and the fact of the matter is politically it's very hard to ever ratchet down a sentence. Ratchet him up, but if the penalties have been set at a lower level to begin with, which they've now been tweaked a little bit in the federal system, nobody would be raising a hue and cry. So, unlike some of my fellow conservatives that did see this is the end of the world. I don't necessarily what I object to the most about it is the narrative behind these criminal justice reform efforts, which is the main

of mass incarceration, which is itself a stand in for the idea that the fact which is indisputable, that blacks are over represented in prison, is a result of racism rather than criminal, offending. So to the extent that the the whole recent criminal justice reform Push served to somehow legitimate. That narrative, I think it's worrisome, but the actual little changes that were made in the federal prison system and I hope my good sources- under the former federal US attorneys, not listening, because they do think it's a big problem. I think we can probably live with it. Ok, so what the mean of mass incarceration. You, you spend a lot of time, debunking it. Why do you think that that's not true? It's become obviously very pop we're talking point there's so many millions of people who are in prisoner have been in prison in the last twenty years. Proportionally speaking people in prison in the United States than in european countries. Why do

I think it is that there are so many people in prison in the United States, as opposed to other countries, because we have a lot of crime here were very violent society. Are moderate, is about twenty two times higher. Then in Germany all this is. We have violence that is under unknown in the rest of the developing world. It's mostly gun violence of, but now you know Britain is sort of trying to catch up with God with a knife islands, but never the less with the degree of

family breakdown, we have, but it's we've always been a more violent society. As you say, I would say that v moral outrage for the progressive left at this point is any of lack of proportionality and the the flip side of that is the refusal to talk about behavior as well as preferences and skills and aptitudes. But when it comes to the criminal justice system, when it comes to policing, there is a complete taboo in talking about a racial crime rates, which is the one thing that explains the disparity in the prison population and when people ask you about this, typically it's it's guys in the form of your races, for even mentioning any of this stuff. If you suggest that the crime rate in the black it is higher than it is in other communities in the United States, particularly violent crime than that obvious play as an indicator that you're racist, because you agree with the racist cop surrounding a black people sort of randomly. You got a lot of that

bring your bomb administration. We've been getting a lot at the same amount of that under the Trump administration. No, because we're all in the resistance, the medicine resistance mode and so the black lives matter. Narrative has had less purchase. It's just that the media has all of its attention now on impeachment are and trying to take trump down, so the Obama years were different. You know you had somebody in the White House who was a very forceful and repetitive

exponent of the black lives matter, narrative of systemic criminal justice, racism that has been removed. Fortunately, of former attorney General Jeff sessions was quite explicit about his support for the cops. So are you know I? It hasn't been as much. I also have been writing about policing quite as much I've been focusing on the university's, but but in any case, are we sort of moved on the you know what I would say to people that say it's racist to talk about the black homicide rate, which is about eight times higher than whites and Hispanics combined. If you were to take hispanics out of that, you get about eleven to twelve, this rate, disparity between blacks and whites. Well, let's talk about the criminal victimization rate. This is the civil the rights violation of our time that blacks die of homicide at six times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined. I don't see any black lives matter activist protesting that, but that is a

Major major disparity, the full for dominant, getting gunned down in a drive by shooting. That does not happen to white kids. If it did, there would be a revolution in this country in twenty sixteen there were four thousand three hundred people shot in Chicago. That's one person every two hours. They were all black can you imagine if four thousand three hundred white people had been shot? It's unthinkable the media doesn't give a damn about black bodies and bless their shot by a cop. They do give a damn about white bodies. We see what happens If there's a school shooting? You know when white kids are taken out, it's the the world. There is a school, shooting type experience every couple of months in the black community and nobody gives a damn about it, except the police and the

families of those kids that are shot so the second. I would ask you to meth bust a little bit all all of the focus on dry I'm, because one of the ideas that we put out there about crime is that the disproportionate number of people in prison is specifically because of the war on drugs, and if we got rid of the war on drugs that would alleviate this problem, before we get to that. I first want to talk to you about getting life you need to get life insurance here in adult stopping a child, time for you to recognize something. You're going die. Ok, we all know it. I know it, you know it. Everybody knows that you're going to die, and that means that you need life It's when you plots, you don't want your your family, taking your body and shoving you into offers grave like Mozart at the end of Amadeus, instead go get some life insurance. All you have to do is head on over to policy genius, it's hard to know where to start, but making sure your families financially protected is really important. Policy genius has created a website that makes it easy for you to compare, quotes, get advice get covered without fees or commission sales agents. Policy genius is the easy way to get life insurance in minutes you can compare quotes top insurers to find the coverage you need at a price for from there

apply online, the advisors, a policy genius will handle all the red tape the leaving oh shoot you're right with the insurance company. It's all part of their best price guarantee policy genius doesn't just do life insurance. They also do disability insurance to protect your income and homeowners. Current and auto insurance. They can help you get covered fast. So if you've been intimidated or frustrated by insurance in the past, starting your search policy genius dot minutes compare quotes into the whole thing on your phone right policy genius, it is indeed the easy way to compare and buy life insurance, okay, so talk a little bit about drug decriminalization yeah, I'm in favor decriminalization of marijuana. I've heard arguments on both sides of that particular issue, but I'm in favor of that, because it seems to me that the war on drugs has been a giant fail in a lot of ways, particularly with regard to marijuana. When I was in middle school, we're dealing marijuana on the playground and it wasn't hard to get so. It seems to me that the law enforcement community just has been unable to control the problem, there's just too much of a market Where do you come down on drug criminalization and also where you come down on the argument that the vast disparity with regard to people in prison these so

problem mass incarceration that that's the result of the war on drugs specifically. Well. Let me take the second question first, which is something that I've got empirical evidence for. The other is really a hypothesis and an experiment that we're living through right now, which is what would happen if we decriminalize are legal as completely as far as the argument that the prison population- the? U S, is driven by the so called war on drugs. It's preposterous Sps, it's a way of getting people all riled up against incarceration. If I can run some numbers by you, the state prison population is our largest prison system. It's eighty eight percent of all prisoners. Sixteen percent of all state prisoners are there for a draw by crime of which twelve percent or for possession I'm sorry, twelve percent or for trafficking. Four percent for procession, those possession, four percent of the entire state prison population have virtually all been plugged down from trafficking

Nobody virtually zero of our of our prison population is there for smoking a joint, or even possessing joint amount of marijuana. The reason or in in prison. Overwhelmingly is violent crime and property crime in the federal system of about fifty percent. Are there for drug crimes, but it's of some again twelve percent of the popular and generally there's about one hundred and sixteen federal prisoners who are there for marijuana trafficking and the other typical chestnut that we get from the black lives matter, Ob Anti mass incarceration movement- is the federal crack penalties that these are also responsible for the blacks and in federal prison.

Well guess who wanted very high stiff penalties on crack? It was the congressional black caucus who said that the crack epidemic was the worst depression that their community and experience in slavery. These are people like Charles Rangel, Alton Maddox in in Brooklyn, the the federal crack penalties before they were revised, all right, identical to the federal Meth penalties, identical mandatory five year sentence for an x amount of meth or crack well meth, is dealt overwhelmingly by whites about two percent of meth. Traffickers are black, so if the crack penalties are anti black than the meth penalties are anti white, but nobody complains about So I want to get back to the college campuses in just a minute. First, I need to ask you a little bit about illegal immigration because you've written pretty delete illegal immigration and one of the things that you've said, for example, is that

the illegal immigration problem isn't going to stop until employers stop the illegal immigration problem that basically, verifies the solutions, illegal immigration as where, if you could spend on that site, we may have a slight disagreement on that. Actually. Well, I don't think it's the only solution, I'm actually not against a wall, but I do think that you do have to try and dry up the jobs, magnet, that's a mixed metaphor, but but and the fact that a lot of people do come into the country illegally because they think they can get work. They're, driving wages down in this country of mass low, skilled immigration, whether it's legal or illegal, our hurts low skilled Americans. Most of all it drag. Their wages down? So I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask employers to make sure that they are verifying that the documents that are presented to them are

Salim valid. I don't I'm curious. Why you're against yeah, so I mean I I abide by the law when it comes to this sort of stuff. I remember there is a. We went through it, an agency to try and find our current nanny and before they bend. We said this person is to be a citizen. They brought us a person who was pretty good. We ask for social security number. She wasn't a citizen, we paid her for her time and coming to see us, but then we said we can hire you. Obviously I I mean number one, I'm not feeling I, but it didn't feel great to tell somebody that they couldn't be hired. Because of all this put up. Put aside the feelings so, as I said, I don't really care very much about that. My basic prob is the idea that employers are supposed to enforce the law when the feds won't, meaning that, if I or to find an illegal immigrant in our community and drive that person over to ice. I would be arrested for kidnapping right, but I'm supposed to first, the law when it comes to immigration, in a way that the federal government and state government of the State of California will not get a stick of California will not even report it to the feds. If somebody is arrest and as an illegal immigrant in the state system. So we don't know

mystics on that, yet I is an employer will be arrested. If I not not in prison an illegal immigrant? If I put in a illegal immigrant on my payroll, then I employer, will be penalized for this. It seems to me that there's nothing deeply more about me hiring a person who wants to work for a wage, but there is something more about the federal government forcing me to enforce the law in a way the federal government will not itself enforce the law. Well, yeah number one e verify has a safe harbor provision so that, if you, use the system- and it turns out that somehow somebody got through- you are not going to jail. So I just don't think that it's either or I think it's both, and I think that you do have to make sure that people cannot get through this and get a job, but obviously sanctuary cities are an absolute abomination. I don't know of any other area of law enforcement where you have different aspects of it refusing to cooperate otherwise it's sort of a seamless web. It should be that way. I mean we learned after nine and eleven that one of the problems was this wall between

the CIA and FBI and local law enforcement got rid of that for for local lawn for meant to thumb their nose at FED Immigration enforcement office say you're not allowed into my jail is just it's a travesty. So obviously we need to get rid of sanctuary cities in Jeff sessions was trying to do so and was getting blocked, of course, by every federal judge that this came up against, except maybe in Texas But but I just I don't think it's not burdensome. It's an instantaneous thing to be able to check, and employers and employees I mean, I also say openly, I'm libertarian when it comes to the flow of labor, so I don't have any problem with people coming as guest workers into the country and working. I don't have a problem with H1B visas. I have no problem with people coming in and filling jobs, that I want to pay them for businesses will offshore if they are not allowed to do this and prices lower because of lower wages. So well it does

question that a higher supply of labor lowers pages in particular areas of the economy, but frankly, so it is sort of is sort of my answer to that, and that is the libertarian answer. That's about Alice Borders, absolutely right, at least when it comes to later when it comes to when it comes to safety, when it comes to welfare, yes, borders, to make sure that people who are coming in the country. This is why I'm for a wall. This is why I am for criminal background checks on people coming into the country. This is why I believe that people should be given citizenship unless they are found to be of net benefit to the United States, but people coming in to work and then leaving again or sending money home or something and not on welfare. I don't really any problem with that whatsoever. It's it's an interesting kind of difference between what I would term sort of the more populist wing of the Republican Party and libertarian wing I've had this conversation with Ann Coulter actually about her book, because she was deeply, can about under cutting the wage base? With regard to immigration, I was concerned more about crime and welfare dependency among people who are coming into the country,

sure where you stand on that. Well, first of all, I don't think the idea that well you're all for importing labor, but not for other things, is a valid distinction, because you don't just import a worker. You import a culture. You import a family, you import as an entire way of of being in the world, and I think what I see. I've spent a lot of time in

hi hispanic neighborhoods instant of California around Santa ANA in Orange County is still lay and yes, on the one hand, they've had an incredible affect on, say, South Central LOS Angeles, because there's more entrepreneurship in those areas than there was before. On the other hand, what I've seen is a migration of many second third generation Hispanics into creating a second under class. You have the highest school dropout rate in the country, the highest teen pregnancy rate among Hispanics, and so there's wonderful success stories of people moving up, but it is happening very slowly and there is hi well for use odd. Obviously you would say well, let's, let's enforce the rule against becoming a public '

charge. Yes, let's do that, but so far that's been very hard to do so. I I I guess I think that of immigration is simply should be in the interests of a country, but that is not excluded exclusively about the cheapest wages. But what sort culture do we want to be. I mean I generally agree that contention. I think that it's a better example of- and it may be more clarifying example- is where you are on, for example, H, one b visa, so I know that they, both an and people like Tom Cotton Jeff sessions very much against the the h one b visas because they feel that that's depressing wages, even in high wage industries, use of h, one b visas there. I don't have much of a problem that I don't really have any problem at all. A frankly light. Have a personal stake in the matter of my father in law was here on H, 1b visa before getting a becoming a citizen of the United States, and obviously my wife is a citizen of the United States. Where are you on H1 bs yeah? Frankly, I'm going to punt on that

I I haven't really I'm influenced by people like Mark Krikorian of the center of immigration studies, who I respect enormously, who do say that's without your father yeah. I think I can find it unfair of me, I'm breaking manual. I don't like to invoke personal stories yet, but you know this is in fact they just are going for the lower common denominator and there's no shortage of America. Labor for low apple computer in putting jobs or something so I don't know on the other hand, I'm also very open to the argument I've heard from my libertarian friends who were former business owners that it's not about. Low wages, we want work, skill, and that I'm completely sympathetic to It is undeniably the case that a lot of Americans have lost a really reliable work ethic and a lot of immigrants do have that so,

you know, and we all are bargain hunters were seem to be wired for wanting the cheapest thing and so a lot of s r complicit in this of wanting cheaper It's cheaper services. So it's a very tough problem, but I guess I would say on the whole, I think that We need to slow down the rate of demographic change, and I know this is getting a lot of conservative media host in a lot of trouble for saying things like that. But I think that a pause is necessary for simulation and just to see you know how things are playing out, because we've had some very, very radical up massive population flows recently- and it's not clear to me when you combine this with our ethic of anti assimilation, how this is going to work out or is working out, because I think we're already seeing some problems of that where you have even very high skilled immigrants like Asians, and

opting the oppositional mentality of a victim ideology which is incredibly perverse. Well, let's talk a little bit about the the demographic change argument before we got ourselves boycotted because I think that what you mean by that is actually not what some folks after suggesting mean by that what they, what they think you mean by that is that we need more white people and fewer brown. People right now is where put it on MSNBC. Is that when you say demographic change, what you're deeply worried about is too many black and brown people and not enough white people, and it seems to me The argument weather is made by Tucker Carlson or by you, or by Ann Coulter, for that matter. With regards to this particular issue, has not really been a color based argument. It's been a culture based argument, meaning that if somebody to come in and assimilate to american values. I don't care what color they are. I don't really care what religion they are. What you know, what all or mosque or church they go to what I care about Emma simulating to basic american values, including values of community, including values of free speech and free enterprise and non dependency and, if you're willing to assimilate and learning

just the way that everybody else is great. Grandparents did three generations ago. My great grandparents did then that's totally and then come on in. But the problem is that we have had this multi cultural ethos that is really help fragments and destroy the culture. Overall right we are teaching people to hate. I completely agree cultures. What matters! Joie habits of, deferred, gratification, self control, roll a sense of public space, not littering. You know, cleaning up around your house. Those things really matter. I think Americans in the sounds you know I'll be criticized being I don't believe we are so ready to be post racial if only the damn diversity bureaucrats would get out of the k through twelve schools get out of the pre K. Schools where they are trying to it's amazing I mean I was talking to somebody who has a child in a gifted and talented school here in LA up in Mulholland. Drive, they are now starting to do affinity group training for the longest elementary school so that kids can start developing their tribal group

identity as an early possible age, and so if people came with a sense of my goal here is to become american. Nobody would give a damn, but you also see still cultural habits that are not the same forward. Looking entrepreneurship in in some of the groups bringing in of and and that's a problem, okay. So let's talk in a second about this multi, culturally, those the diversity ethos. The talk about your book. First, let's talk about brushing your teeth. The new year means new resolutions. We've got one that you are working on twice every day, it's your oral health and with equip electric toothbrush sticking to good habits is simple. I know you lied to the dentist. You say you brush regularly. You say you brush for the proper amount of time stop lying to yourself. Instead, you ought to get a quip toothbrush. The guiding features are like a built in support system for better brushing sensitive sonic vibrations for an effective clean that is gentle on your sensitive gums, built in two minutes

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the trivialities of gonads and melanin, and now all the various gender identities that are being rapidly crafted by desperate students who have finding it's getting harder and harder to be transgressive and get your own personal bureaucracy to cater to your delusions about being oppressed. Frankly, I think diversity comes. Naturally, I don't, I think any individual is diverse, but I don't even think it should be a goal in any, in any sense, of even intellectual diversity. If we didn't have such a monolithic, I think I would exercise the word completely I would not put in, good diversity versus the the

I stress, narrow, narcissistic diversity is currently defined. I think the goal of university should be knowledge, pure and simple, and a gratitude for the greatness of the past for the works of sublime creation that it is our privilege to have inherited of so you know, but but now diversity is just a code word for a whole set of things. Primary only what you mentioned before been, which is this idea that any lack of proportional representation is by def mission a signal. Somewhere, someplace or everywhere is lethal discrimination, and it is also the diversity ideology is giving students a ground to be completely out of touch with reality. It's just it's remarkable

the reigning view is that to be a female or a so called Student of color on an american college campus today is to be at literal threat to your life, from circumambient racism and sexism, this is not Billy students, really believe it. You know the students occupied the president's office at Brown, complaining about the fact that they had to to follow such quotidian academic expectations is going to class or studying for exams because they said they were focused so hard on quote staying alive at Brown now there is no more privileged place in human history then a college campus. I don't care if your purple green or blue, or if you come from a family of twenty five thousand dollars a year or two million dollars a year simply by virtue

of being on a college campus. You have at your fingertips the thing vows sold his soul, for which is knowledge every intellectual resources open to you without regard. To your color or your gender. Every book that has ever been written you can This is something that would have driven the renaissance. Humanist mad with in desire and yet students are encouraged by their presidents by the, metastasize ng, sprawling, multi million dollar diversity, bureaucracy to think of themselves as victims were all this get started, because if you Look at the history of university. Supposedly it was supposed to be what you're talking about bringing knowledge trying to study, eternal truths. Looking at the universe around you and now it's a competitive Olympics Jim Hood. How did that get started in who's interested in promulgating this? Well, I think it's

started in the sixties, when you had us civil rights movements morphing into black power and schools that for completely understandable reasons, said boy: we've got to quickly jump start a black student body and employed the same technique that they're employing today, which is incredibly self destructive and counterproductive, which is very best racial preferences, bringing students in who do not share the average academic skills of their peers. In order to fulfill a racial quota and students that are brought in under any type of preference, it could be a gender preference whatever who are not competitively qualified or going to Ruggles. So you had the creation of black studies, majors ethnic studies majors to try and give something to these preference beneficiaries that would that they could

succeed at and then you had the rise of high theory, which is something initially quite remote. This was deconstruction Post structuralism, which were very arcane, Kane and very bizarre theories about languages. I unfortunately wasted my college years absorbing uncritically without any sense of of skepticism towards them, but they still read the Canon, and- and so even though I was reading shock deadly to my eternal regret, I was also reading Wordsworth and Edmund Spenser and John Milton and wallowing in language of just exquisite beauty in the 80s. Some of the core ideas of deconstruction took one hundred and eighty degree turn deconstruction of design. That there was such a thing as a human self, a completely counterfactual proposition, but never the,

as one that Lord in stupid students like Maine. The weird thing is that instruction in the 80s some of their ideas turned into this roaring revival of the self. So now it's all about me narcissism as female, I'm supposed to only want to study female writers, or I want to read books to get uh. Sense of how oppressed females were in the past. This is just a a travel state of what education should be, which is about taking our own? petty cells out of ourselves into a world that is so much larger than our minds could ever have encompassed and in Dead students only want to study their sexuality, their sexual preferences and again they're being encouraged by this. In this hi there by their faculty. So let me give the counter the counter argument for the sake of playing

advocate, for a lot of folks on the left is that the the sling theory of America and of the West have been that it is a great and glorious place, filled with great discoveries and freedoms and prosperity, but that prosperity It's has been built on the backs of a lot of different various victimized subgroups over the course of history and their place have been ignored, and that it is incumbent on us now that we have reached beyond the point of western elation alone to look at these various subgroups and recognize that they have been in actually victimized and we can judge them by their interest, actual categories. If you're a member of several categories, you have it's a variety of ways. This means that you have an experience that no one else can understand 'cause. You yourself have been a member of these particular groups and your subjective membership in any of these oops means that we all have to judge you that way. If we Tell the that way, then we are please standing in for the patriarchal oppressive system above, is that

completely wrong. Seventy percent wrong what what percentage wrong is that when it comes to building a better world? Well, we have not been at risk for a sort of a nationalist self glorifying narrative about our past for quite some time now. I don't think there's any dearth of our history books are history courses papering over the very real, very unfathomable hypocrisies, that dominated America, for instance, for nearly two hundred years with our stunning blindness, to the fact that both slavery and jury. Segregation were just blow violations of what this nation reported to stand for, and it's always just amazing, to see the patients the patriotism, the courage with which

the civil rights pioneers were willing to keep fighting to get America to live up to its ideals, but the idea that now we're still living in this world that is blind to the failures of the west, I think, is completely counter factual it. It is the case I would also say, what's empirically demonstrably wrong. Is the idea that the West is today the font of all evil, if you want to see a patriarchy, you know go to rural nape, call where girls who are having their period or is forced to stay in a hot because they're so impure or if you want to see homophobia, trying house trying. Sponsor a gay pride march in Uganda, Egypt, it recently imprisoned people at a rock concert who would world a Rainbow banner in solidarity with the lead singer of rock band, who was gay and they're? Consider

in criminalizing homosexuality the rest of the world the non western world? every single day is trying to much of the West Weather legally or illegally. Why are they deluded. Are they diluted about the fact that, coming to this place of a vicious racism and sexism will oppress them or did I realize that at this point there has never been a freer more tolerant opportunity. Build society in human history and in this It's a cliche are among conservatives, but I guess it bears repeating that there's hardly a culture in the world that is not practice slavery, including Africa, but the west was the the society that developed

the abstract ideals of of a humanity that transcended tribal identities that pay the way for outlawing slavery. It didn't happen elsewhere. It happened in the west because of the enlightenment. And the evolution of ideas of fairness due process and a universal human. Never saying all the stuff obviously are very threatening person. I mean I, I know that you know you sound, very threatening, you're, very scary, human yeah. Well, there both Muslim and protested against at college campuses. I feel sort of bad. I always mentioned your name when people talk about protesting college campuses, I get all sorts of attention for going to Berkeley with six hundred police officers, but you've been physically places like Claremont, Mckenna what about your experiences on college campuses? Well, Clermont was definitely the nadir of Yahoo students that were out there to try and feel like they had some. You know:

social justice mission to feel important. I was there to speak about my previous book, the war on cops and to bring the mess. Such that there are many abiding residents of high crime neighborhoods who love the police? You know, I cannot go to a police community meeting. In LA or east tell me where I don't hear. We want the cops. Please get the drug dealers off the street with all apologies to the war on drugs, but people feel this is an impression, and so for that for saying that there are people who support the cops in inner city communities and that there's no government agency more dedicated to the proposition black lives matter, then the police, because they save tens of thousands of minority lives starting the nineteen nineties through proactive policing, I was declared a homophobe racist classes anti fee email colonialist, you name it by the students at the

lunch is around Claremont Mckenna, which is a set, a small liberal arts college in EAST of LOS Angeles. They blockaded the of auditorium where I was supposed to speak so that no students could come and hear me enter. I was taken in through a with a police escort through secret past, Dwayne spoke to an empty room outside the students, were pounding on the windows and enchanting and drumming, and the police eventually decided. Then these were large plate glass windows that they couldn't guarantee to my safety, so I was escorted out, but you know These are students that have never had to live with real high crime. They don't know a thing and it was something you no one can hear about the free speech crisis from afar, but to be at the center of a mob is a sobering experience, because you don't know what they're going to do next and to just feel that Ferrell confidence in their own rectitude, and

their willingness to exercise the tool of every oppressive fascist government in human history, which is to be the arbiters of acceptable Expression is is really something so talk a little bit about the perceived threats on campus. So you're perceived as a threat, I'm perceived as a threat. We both get I'm sure the posters about how threatening in terrible we are okay. So this is where the buzz words coming right. Buzz words come in when, when people feel threatened, so rape, culture, regi, you've been accused of promoting rape culture. I've been in his promoting rape, culture, what the hell is rape, culture, I'm just honestly, I do not even have a good definition for what people mean when they say rape, culture, because I'm unaware of the constituency that is radically in favor of rape in the United States. What exactly am I missing here? What do they mean by this? And why are they wrong? Well, I guess they would say the very fact that we have rape at all means that we're going to rape culture, that somehow we are uh, indifferent to or tolerant of or even in origin of of females, getting raped

or that maybe to be a little less hyperbolic. They would say that the patriarchy, so strong so devalue females lives that it results in a acceptance towards male violence, but you're right I mean I've, never really tried to pin it down myself and I'm going here, a little bit band, because it is a an extraordinarily broad term, but I guess to just sort of give them the benefit of the doubt. It's shorthand for we still live in a culture that devalues females. Lives and and sees them as sex objects. Men in in the contention is that by even talking about the fact that women are free in the United States, the freeze, but in human history, actually in most prosperous women in human history that this is actually a threat to women. If you talk about the process, I already have how women ought to do well, that this is a threat to women, as we need to recognize their inherent victim status, otherwise we are ignoring their cruel plate yeah. Well, it's because everybody wants to be a victim today. I've recently,

turn that white males in their desperate sort of affinity, group circles, everybody's going to trade victim points and see where, they end up on the intersectional totem pole have taken to saying? Well, I think I'm on the spectrum, because this gives them some opportunity to themselves not be strong. It's a very weird civilizational development because for centuries for like all of human history, cultures wanted to celebrate strength and accomplishment and success? And now we celebrate alleged victimhood and oppression. It's a it's a bizarre reversal of how societies used to run themselves and you know, one explanation is possibly a Nietzsche said that Christianity was a major sort of betrayal of classical ideals and that it celebrated the original Vict

and whether that's going on that somehow in a secular way. That idea of a skepticism toward strength and a glorification of weakness is going on, but for females today to think of themselves as oppressed is ridiculous. Again we don't want to personalize this and there needs a balance between anecdotes and data, but I can just tell you that I have never been discriminated against in my life. I was in college in the 70s. My school had recently gone coed. If ever there would have been a time when the faculty is hostile towards females. Why did they bring them in? You know they were destroying standards whenever it would have been. Then I had enormous support from my from my professors and ever since then I have without a doubt, been the alleged beneficiary of gender quotas constantly can't gently I mean every every pound.

Eleven media experience is desperate for females, also any especially, you know: well I don't want to get intersectional myself, but for a white female to claim that she's oppressed is particularly ludicrous and that doesn't mean that I'm granting any legitimacy to the well speaking as a black female name, because I think it just all of these. All of these little identity, markers are irrelevant, but but never the less. The female narcissistic whining is is particularly nauseating to me. What's it like, the the combination of the death of the notion of a active truth at the death of the notion of the idea of eternal truth? Combined with the need for victim hood in a society where victimhood is actually kind of hard to come by has led people to the bizarre notion that you are very summized. If people disagree with you that your politics, Your views are wrapped up in your subjective self definition, and thus, if people disagree with you, they have attacked her identity. Erase them as human beings. This obviously

that most commonly in the context of transgenderism in the discussion of Trans gender pronouns. If you suggest that there is such a thing as a biological male in biological female. In that email cannot become a female. Then you are a member of the oppressive class. How would you? How would you argue with that? With that sort of thing. The transgender, specifically or just that. That seems to be the hot topic, not just not- and you know not to argue with transgender folks specifically, but the idea that it is oppression of high order and serious consequences? If somebody, does that males are males and females or females, for example, yeah, that's a hard one, pack. I have been sort of on the margins of the Trans gender wars and I'm not had that direct experience that people, like your Jordan, Peterson I've had it's it's so complicated because they're making so radical a claim about of the irrelevancy of biology and and their right to choose their own sex

Joel identity of that in refusing to use their favorite pronouns, you are in some sense striking at their definition of themselves and and you're you're, relying on your understanding of science. So it's a tough one that that's sort of the toughest one that's out there. I am. I am much more confident in being able to say that empirically we are not mainstream institutions not discriminating against females. Are people of color How to navigate that bizarre act of power

that is going on now with transgender people in trying to what other people in their linguistic under their linguistic thrall is, is a challenge our, but in in some sense, when they're saying it's a threat to their own identity, given that that is how they're choosing to define their identity There is something at least semantically plausable about that, ok. So in a second, I want to ask you one final question on it: Ask you specifically, as policy expert who is focused on, says and on and on crime. Administration is doing across the board on some of these issues. But if you want to hear how the Mcdonald's answer you have to be a daily wear subscriber to subscribe, just go over daily, wear dot com click subscribe and can hear the end. Our conversation there well having Mcdonnell? Thank you so much for stopping her book is the diversity delusion if you have check it out. You absolutely should all over a great war on is great diversity. Delusion is great and all

with you when I have a policy wonk issue. I don't know the answer to have there's one of the people that I turn to and I never answered. Thank you so much for stopping that. You've been split the Ben Shapiro show Sunday Special is produced by Jonathan, hey, executive producer, Jeremy, boring associate producer Mathis Glover edited by Donovan Fowler Audio was mixed by Dillon case. Hair and makeup is by Jeshua Overa graphics by Cynthia angle of the bench. Shapiro show Sunday Special is a daily wire production. Copyright daily wire, two thousand and nineteen