« The Bill Simmons Podcast

An MLB Funeral With JackO, Plus LL Cool J on Kobe vs. Magic, Rap History, and Creating the GOAT

2020-06-17

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by his old friend JackO to discuss the grim outlook for the 2020 MLB season and the ESPN 30-for-30 'Long Gone Summer' (2:45). Then Bill is joined by Grammy-winning rapper, actor, and entrepreneur LL Cool J to discuss historical hip-hop, the Rock the Bells brand, Kobe Bryant, Lakers greats, the original GOAT, set stories from 'Any Given Sunday,' and more (44:13). Finally, in an excerpt from the 'Flying Coach' podcast, Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll talk with NBA champion and coach Doc Rivers about growing up in Chicago, dealing with racism, and sharing stories with the Clippers team during the Donald Sterling scandal (1:30:24).

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonight's episode of the bill. Summits back ass, the ringer package that were brought to you by zip recruiter. As you know, things are a little bit up in the air for the upcoming for buses and we did games are going to have average magna fans are in the stands at they can be able to eat and drink anything but things remain certain like our presenting sponsorship critters mission throughout all this there's, though, dedicated helping people find jobs in helping growing companies have for their teams If you're looking for a job, zip recruiters apple, send you up to date, job openings, you be one of the first to apply by connecting job seekers with employers, Ziprecruiter committed to keeping our workforce strong, ziprecruiter dot com work together, were also brought in by the ringer dot com. The ringer pack has that work where we are covering the return of the NBA. It is happening, things are going. Things were announced.
We heard about we heard about the tell situation Disney hotels grouped in three different MRS Green Desk Dino is where the bucks Lakers Raptors Cooper, subjects Nuggets jazz in heat, are gonna be and then seventy six racket, spacers bags nets, grizzlies magic at the grand Floridians and then stuck at the. Club, whatever the how that is, Blazers kings, poke and spurs sons. Wizards there's been a ladder. That's come out right about the rule book that they set out, I'm sure we'll be covering it on the website and probably in the ringer ambition with care, see inferno as well. Doesn't like. There's pets looks like thirty person parties for each team and play can bring their own Masood their share for ever, but that would count as one thirty five, it's a fantastic I'm just so excited that the NBA is is gonna, be back coming.
We're intact? Nobody Jacko about the possible death of baseball witches almost definitely going away for two thousand and twenty and God knows what kind of shape it'll be an after that and were ass humans but I M glad, and so Sir, there are thirty and then allow cool J first time ever on this podcast evenly, wasn't even on my odious pm pack ass ladder stuff for him to talk about there the tail end. We have little excerpt the Doc Rivers unflagging coach with pecan on deep car. They are only to pack has left for those That has been an awesome Pakistan. This was really get. So what did you hear that saw coming up? First, our friends from
urgent. I beg Jack. I was going to say goodbye to Facebook. I mean it's, it's just, I believe a ball. I mean every sport right every other sport has come up with a plan to deal with. This horrific reflect The situation that we living through caught much more contact then baseball I will gray every other sport football hockey and be W Nba, certainly more contact base Paul. They ve all been able to work out a plan where they can play and deal with
what everything that we're dealing with in this day and age, but Baseball America's pastime, the grand old game cannot get its act together because they have chosen to fight a power there. By differences in these troubled times were living in and will not What we are dealing with here and not give one edge either side in order have a baseball season at sport. That's already has problems in terms of demographics ratings. It said and in his already sort of teetering, you would they would have a more incentive than anybody else to say. Let's work, this out must play the freakin game and they can't get their act together. It's it's its outrageous in its is heartbreaking in its its unfathomable really, except that it is because his baseball, I would say it's completely fathom mobile, I'm not surprised at all.
What's once I saw that the union and the owners and the commissioner were kind of dogs on both sides We ve seen this act before right We know how this is gonna play out. We know common sense will not prevail, and if I was you know, I don't know who the alpha dog is on the owner. Commissioner, side cousins, clearly that rob manner his eye. Can we caught in the poor man's carried them? And now I think we can absolutely its I give if Gary Batman, Iraq now had a kid and then drop that kid on its head. It would be Rob Manfred, I think, would be where we ended up the. It doesn't seem like anybody on that side is, is looking around go and he fell. This is like history at stake here. There's only we, the ninety four, that all thing is talked about in the most leg.
It's being sad tones even all these years later, it's a man, member ninety, four God that was brutal how'd. We let that happen and we're letting this happen again. So I ate, it almost seems like they don't care if it comes back and that's the part that really shocks me, I mean the thing: that's incredible, realize you have a commissioner of a sport, but doesn't really seem to be a fan of that sport, because when he was when he was talking about the Astros penalty for the garbage can banging in the sign stealing and they People are saying we should have taken away their world series trophies I've. Well, who cares? That's just a piece of metal how right in that is not the Stanley CUP in terms of reference for the trophy itself, but it represents the championship of your sport, like work their whole lives in sweat and bleed and the whole thing as a co as a player as a manager as a coach whatever to get their own world series to win series and for the commissioner for sport to say I was just a piece of metal who cares you're supposed to be,
The ve been cheerleader for your sport, you're supposed to be the guy that loves the sport more than anybody else. Theoretically, yours posts are represented on the national scene and when you refer to what is it piece of metal that that sort of says where your heart lies in terms of the game so he just sees it as any other business and he's representing these owners- and you know, if should never biased sports team to make money every guy. That's ever own disport theme has, is you you're not in it for the money you're in it, because the cachet of owning a sports team in because you love sports, because it's out of having that you're back pocket the routine discoferies championship. Camaraderie, there's a lot of reasons the owner, but you shouldn't only to try to make money and and there's all these, is leaking out about guys that now own baseball teams and there's some there's some number of them six to eight, apparently, who would rather not play the sees it. Because they're gonna lose somebody because they can't have fans, they can't sell tickets. They can't some concessions, but the notion owning a business or owning a product that do not have it go forward in this
and it's just I can understand that- why? Why would you own a sports team and say yeah, let's IONA Chicago White Satin, just picking them at random, I'm not saying their owner is. That is isn't that camp. But I only cargo websites not be bright. Bliss play this year like what. Why would you own that like sell the team? Don't own it? If you. It make any money if it's all about money, for you go by tech company in I'll go by a steel company, Whatever makes money, you know, go by a Starbucks franchise, dont, honest sports team, if you're in it to make money, it's ridiculous. And I do not want to get our hokey here, but a baseball. It means a lot to a lot of people were gone a tough time in this country? Now you know between covered in this situation with with black lives matter in the police. And what have you as a baseball? Could then maybe gather and say we have these labour problems. Can we put those aside until next year and this year, let's like take one for the teams speak, like let's just play the season. Let's work it out,
there will be. No we'll figure it out and just play based. To give american some some kind of a distraction that they can all maybe get behind her or something to watch. I mean God almighty. Just it's ridiculous to me. There were others two points given that one is reseller made this point their trading. There's like well, hey yeah! I do lose money that share and it's like. Well guess what a lot of people are losing money this year I around like this. Is you chose to run a business? The busy eating you weren't, guaranteed to make money every single year you re in that business and just cause. This is gonna, be a bad here for the business is it me and you just board up the store and and that's it you call quits and you are wealthy enough to own a baseball team or probably worth at least a billion dollars. If not several billion dollars. You can wear store much more than a guy that or person that owns amino some mom and pop grocery store that had a shut down or mine a hardware store, restaurant or a bar that seed are living on the fringes, enable
shut down for three months, a knave last lap money and they may can't take that hit in the same degree that you can all IVO I've learned A couple of million bucks is not the same that you're gonna pay your mortgage on several of your house's seen how here and I can have a problem with that were, whereas other people have made enormous sacrifices in the Indus. Tough time there are living through are going to have our face real problems. Paying the red getting groceries, I mean, can you have some some sense of like what people in this country are going through and what you're going to do it in comparison with that leads me to the second piece. Rich people are rich for a reason and hate losing money in Russia's explain.
To me nine years ago when we have namby a lock out, and these and some of the owners were whose I hate aid of us are losing money or ten of Us Africa. The number is- and I found I got the list of the the teams that actually you know were under and some of them were in the red by like eight hundred thousand you, no nine hundred thousand a million one point, one whatever I'm like these guys are acting like they're losing forty million a year. We unless they changed the NBA rules like this, is like nothing in them, and somebody said to me rich guys, don't care, they don't want to lose money and if, if they own something in that thing lost one point, one million dollars to them. It feels like a hundred and ten million, and they just they they're going to fix it until they can look at something and say I'm not in the red, but here's the thing. Why am I don't know if this is necessarily case for baseball as much as we like?
by the basque bar football, but when you on those teams, whatever you paid, you get to write off all this shit right in the latter case, is the city's get the city's chip in for your stadium or outright by it right right or chip all this other stuff for your actors and everything else yeah see you're, making other stuff your bill. Owning some asset that eventually you can sell. When you sell it, you get the full price of it there are that right. I've stuff that was saving your ass year to year meanwhile year. That thing is accruing value this. This is why rich people love buying sports teams. This is why they ve always gone into because that cause the eco part of it. So for baseball, belay man, we you know to sport, really banners to a lot of people, be, as you said, people or are bombed out right now. They need distractions. They want to have in us
somebody's alive back and for them to look at that and go ass. Fuck. It fuck those people will see that a year its Parker. It's like Atta Atalanta, Jimmy Stuart moving from the forties or something I mean, lay pro. Think. Well, we have to strike a ninety four. We took a hit, but we weather the storm. A man baseball came back and you know it, it was through the roof, and maybe our ratings aren't the greatest. But we make a lot of money in attendance and what have you figure! Now we, whether that storm, we can whether this one too. But I mean this- is a different. This, a different time, Now is one thing to have a strike industry and you're having labour issues in the inner the union's fighting over what the union is fighting with you over, but this this is a different time. To do it during this time, when a lot of people are hurting a lot worse than owners and players ever will be financially and distant to our. How about your usual arguments about things is just is just not the time you know note read the room a little bit here. Read the room of the country and not just come together like put this aside until next year next year, you
have a labour fight. That's one thing but like to nickel and dime and Anne, and have your usual fights in this timeframe. This is not good from a pr perspective, to say the least. It's just outrageous, wouldn't you say that It's like one of the worst marriages is negative. Naturally baseball the union and the owners where this wife and husband in your life you just back your wife's gun, Hey out Saturday that we're gonna go out to dinner, with the Emma be unit in nothing, but like many other, despite Donald Tsang, they hate each other. They should get divorced or two years ago is always so too a hundred years and the game. The owners had a hundred per cent of the power, the reserve claw as players didn't have any say they couldn't. There is no free agency, there's nothing else until Kurt Flood and ever
then, when they hired Marvin Miller, and now they have the strongest union, certainly of any sports league in the country and now for the last fifty years and spouse the other direction so that the players have all the juice from a union perspective and so the owners in know the players have the previous hundred years of bitterness. The owners have fifty years of bitterness so is complete, the toxic and just completely ugly, and owners are counting on. You know the fans looking at somebody like you nauseating garret call and care calls not necessarily militant union wise, but They just use his numbers for an example in something I read, and so he s a guy that would make thirty five million dollars and if the owner get their way in terms of what they would pay. The players he'd make like nine million dollars, that's a big hit for him. He loses twenty six behind a hollers, that's real money, but the average person who is dealing with all the troubles of the economy, everything and are like? Oh, my god is now just paid nine million dollars the way these bodies play baseball. You know, so the owners
running on people like an automatically blame the players as they think all the players are spoiled you now that you ve left might. Can you become a free agent? You broke my heart now, I'm now, I'm going to look for some reason to dislike you and now you're, crying about only making nine million dollars, I'm trying to find a way to pay the rent. You know the owners are carrying on that, but I think you know it now. I think the blame is gonna be on both sides, because these owners, the owners, are not sympathetic to say the least. It's just awful on both sides. Its heartbreaking, like when Irish, everything. I'm old enough- and I should know better but, like I read these things in its eye and the notion of having a forty eight games season or whatever is such a farce. What baseball you know I could come, and can you play a hunch, games for love of God, so it has some semblance of being a season I mean forty eight games as a frequent joke, I was kept they had ever figure it out because once a past like about MID, may
yeah really just start doing the math ear like I will now we're under a hundred games. There's no way this hundred right. Now, it's like some word we're playing eighty game season. I Maybe I could talk began Heidi I've been terrain children to, but training, and you know how How do you get guys ramp up water guys doing? Are our guys thing in shape right now, our guys throwing it's really Ben may think about it. It's mid you now for some guys if their season ended and at the end of September last year, tucking nine months since I ve really play real baseball while ass the thing in that now you're talkin injuries and everything else began to come back to soon that I haven't had a full spring training. Arms aren't stretched out you know the Yankees hamstring problems book rear their really add it out statement an out and out for the next three years with hamstring issues. So it s just is: horrible around? Just it's it's! demoralising is depressing: it's horrible stands.
Even in good enough shape to pull something. We have a good actually that met it better for him, like he's, like jog, trot out junk never got injured, didn't used to be and to get the shapes, and now a baby is gone to see it in his elder great. This area will get her, that's as it gives very stiff and judge. Their fill a great there like we can start. This is re gnats, a yak issue that you that lifting like a frigate exactly, maybe that's the signal key right, exactly what there's another piece of this, though in year old enough to remember the eighty one strike, sacked right member? That was what fifty fifty days this, just no baseball and we had nothing on earth like no internet. No video games barely right. And then ninety four was also just awful a lot less going on there to people a lot more people cared now. Look at this, where I just think like that, get guess what my son has it asked me about really at all over the last few months. Is that hey dad Wednesday,
Buckeye me back like he really only cared for the playoffs in for like the two Dodger Games a year. I would take him to or if we were back in Boston, to go to Red Sox game with me and my dad or something, but I think baseball should be alarmed that there's actually not more out each and more of an outcry and an oh, my god, and what are we doing and writing to me when you think about social media and especially like whose on social media in people thirty five and under and the fact that those people for the most part don't give a shit. That's more alarming than losing a season was arrested, I mean they're playing with fire and they're, not playing from a strong position like they think they're. In this, this big position of, like somebody, asked the blink, but the Americas giving them any outside pressure to say like oh, my god, you guys better get back to it and they came out there
they and admitted while our seas and can't be too long, because if we were put into a bell, we're gonna get like murdered and the ratings, because they're gonna have play off in a play off. Baseball's gonna lose to like a Panthers Jaguars game right like weak thirteen or we twelve or so out, so that they David much is admitted like we can't go into too late in the season because we're gonna get killed, but there's the other wrinkle of soul reset with the NBA might have allowed them to reconfigure with their schedule is too and they is wondered about hey what, if we start in december- and we play all the way through July right in and we basically try to avoid football as much as we can. We start the seas. I Christmas right. They do that now. You'd have the basketball players basin going all the way through the asked our break a baseball right in and then right into football, and they would only be like a month that baseboard have for its relevant right. Is there so down there? so dumb that, like the guys it on the teams, are dumb players,
is that the commissioner is the dumbest person on the earth its frightening? It's horrible livestock in every way, not long ago, like, though the Red Sox Yankee rivalry that we love so much oh, eight of through o o aid through O four, basically, but then that Yankee run with cheater from basically ninety six, though, for and how important baseball was an oath three, especially when, like the Cubs, wherein there in the Red Sox Yankees in it, just felt like it just dominated everything, and we even had it for the most part. Think about like the first couple. My pack, like the o nine year on every week. We are talking about the ideas in the playoffs and all that and it was as relevant as anything going on. I it doesn't seem like baseball as as even been half as relevant since, and I was thinking about, I watched them Maguire Sosa Doc, which will get into an a second rethink. Like everybody cared,
Everybody cared about that chase. Everybody cared about where their bonds was going to get to seventy one or not, and people care it feels like more about baseball, is a hole in October now, in that in the regular season. Just isn't isn't as relevant to people that are under thirty five and I even for me take the how long the games got and just be grind and justify the short attention other stuff. We talked about a million times, but I am really wondering where baseball fits in losing a whole season if they combats back from it. Now I mean you know that, like that documentary and and people who said before, you know that whole brunches kind of brought people back into baseball fans that were like. While you lost me with the striking you're all greedy and you all suck and now this whole, one thing like always somewhat gonna break Maris record and it's the day to day of did he hit one? Did he hit one in really was in doing that that brought it back but like home.
Now now. What we know about that chastened steroids in general and home runs into did, although juice, baseball's and smaller part and everything else. Another. At the home run. Any home run chase cycle is gonna, bring that back. In our view, if John next year, goes on a tear and he's on a paste ahead. Eighty, like anybody, really gonna, get you no go crazy for that. Her or trout is gonna hit it was about a hundred home runs like without bring people back. I don't know maybe make our performance enhancing drugs, illegal, I guess they're gonna have to write as the way to win the battle, hardly which strive to do it. I add it. It's a sin. The baby steps it got us to this moment. I think the plan games lasting past midnight, Ferdy two generations, kids, who either there were staying up, told thirty at night, all those Yankees Red Sox games. We loved all them ended after midnight, arrogant,
for all of ours. I see that you have. You know that the social media standpoint baseball just doesn't fit in the same way. Some these other sports do the players Just kind of left side kind of guys in baseball for whatever reason than in basketball and football, and then the late. The length of the games is the thing they just were never able to figure out and it got worse and worse and worse, there was a really interesting. It was almost like a a chart of just hits and strikeouts that I saw online about how it changed over the last twenty five years. That was the other thing to where it just became every at bat. Feast or famine, homer strike out and other stuff adds up, and then you talk about you know. A lot of the team said had the code on co, curses, thou kind of Did the curse rather than having cubs? Did it?
Why was I think about that giants? Is your talk about, like you know the rivalries and what still relevant now making the Cubs one in two thousand? Sixteen, so really like the Indians are really the only like curse team that hasn't ones in the fifties, so Forty eight, I guess so you're like the giants got rid of theirs. The guy get rid of theirs. So although all the leg long long long time franchises lifted their kind of curses, which is always storyline year to year, except for the Indians, which I guess cause the calves, one that kind of half lifted it. But out now you must had this new generation of teams that we grew up with that. We saw when titles that are now kind of torture, like the Metson Dodgers
seems like that. And then you have like mariners. You have smaller, you know smaller market franchises, but I do think that's the same baseball in the in the first. Probably fifteen years of the century was just at: can they do it? Can it happen? And there was, at least one team involved in this kind of lost that is so you're. Not gonna went out of the balloon on that one. Now, like other Red Zack bag, it I've been told the Red Sox won the world Series, I'm not sure about that. But I've been told that happen. So through a color daily there being afore. I guess what I get it. I guess what else we want JANET. The murky bets trade now now in their trade. We finally one did you ever do go on the other, guys that he's gonna break out the Red Sox. Never having played a game for the Dodgers. That's perfect, brilliancy good us to the Red Sox for another one needed him yeah, so there and then
another hour cover this. Is you have the dodgers? The most tragic team in the last ten years right day day get just completely host that Astro sides dealing thing. They they have most of the tough losses of the decade and then the one year with it seems like the stars and finally aligned to get Mookie for thirty cents on the dollar, and they have one of the best teams anyway, and it's in there prohibitive favorites. In my opinion, and now there's no season in the Fucking Astro in our people would have really been out for blood they share. My good have been like, certainly Rome, calcium. Like booing, I went somewhere in a players damn and now. If you take the whole year offered everybody's had a year to cannot come down and sort of forget about it. Known are our quick click. Generation and our society. Next year you now twenty twenty one that could be as much bad blood for the astrophysicist sacks of this it's awful all round is horrific. Well, maybe that's what they should do is just instead of having a season. Just have people throwing at the
strength it I'd get behind that were there with their leave in their house. Just a stranger start, snowballs dumber superboss. Take that really it's really say: did you ever think baseball could pay surely die in our lifetime, and we will do it might move to a different phase. But now I'm starting to wonder leg holy shit like day this actually could be a real catastrophe for them legitimate, might not recover will never might never be. The same might be like I don't know what happened to boxing to some degree. Well, I was just going to say, you know like at one time in this country and the night airily nineteen hundreds like baseball was the king and, like boxing, was number two like baseball boxing and horse racing, yeah like unless you're like really below degenerate. Basically, like you're, not gonna, be in terms of gambling you're not The horse racing and boxing is a super niche sport, because there is many different divisions in too many different in all too many
leagues or whatever to many wait classes and everything else they ruin that watered down, so you like it out if you went back in I'm in here like you now and twenty twenty boxing's out that big of a deal people like while you're crazy, I'm really the Friday night fights everything else. It was a huge deal, something that is it possible. That could happen to baseball words, relegated to a niche sport, no question and in other Marina Ii Sports might put, surpass baseball. God help When you have no leadership at all in in a professional sport at some point, it's gonna die and bud sailor who still loves doing his victory labs about like this control of of his reign, which is really when a lot of these problems started. They just have had bad leaders and people who don't get it and who don't seem to understand that it's in a real danger zone- quick, yeah that thirty four thirty about Maguire Sosa. I was happy. Watching it and at some point it was like. I is
before hours. Why have they got steroids yet, and I looked at my cable, and there is like twenty minutes laughed and then I went on Twitter to see if, even though most of my time minds muted at this point. If but I was five. You are on a rampage guy, what the hell theirs the minutes, how they addressed steroids. Yet Maguire says that better. I gotta say I thought that was one of the most bizarre thirty four thirty's ever. If that the most bizarre, don't really understand how it happened. I mean I did not go to the Columbia School of journalism. I have no journalism expert, but if you're going to tell the story, of the nineteen ninety eight homerun race and within the word steroids is used like three times and it's all in the final forty minutes I don't know what you're doing and how do you make tat movie? I mean I made a lot of jokes,
like you know about. It is like a two hour documentary about the Nixon presidency. You mention Watergate in passing in the last forty minutes, I mean right. Steroids is a big part of that, like we can't just that that movie, it could have been thirty. Four thirty could have been made in December of ninety. Ninety and we all would have been like our why that was really a great recap and required so said: whole country has begun. And it was crazy, but it's not one thousand. Nine hundred and ninety eight is twenty slash. Twenty the letter to lie in the twenty two years since then at entered completely ignore it. I thought we're going to be like a behind the music you now from the H one when they do like the first hand, the documentary has had the bands rise and then a map we threw drugs, kick it and then it's like a than they would hit. The skids knew somebody died and they lost their record contract, and so I was like Alan What's two hours law we're going to get to the stairways part in the second hour, and then they talked about. Maguire with the Andrews Dean thy in his locker and they lived spent like two minutes on it. Yeah
St Louis beat writers were like we'd, even know how to pronounce it or what it was like, and then it we just moved on from that. I'm like wait. What that was it like? That was a big thing because he was using that is like masking illegals, their produce that he couldn't go down to the g and and by, and that was completely ignored. I my guess is that they wanted Maguire and so so to participate, and they needed Emma be footage. Is Spain has a deal and forts. I have too much knowledge about this piecework selective Netflix did it They don't care about their relationship with the ever be there, just fair use, a lot of the a Sosa staff and go to town, but it Is Pierre, you gotta keep their relationship at all that well because then, and what rage me even more, I and I use go to bed before this, but I was so like flabbergasted by this and the way it was portrayed in all these that was like love letter to Mark Maguire from like the Saint Louis beat writers and the beat
one be renders like we're we're all to blame. It was all our fault. What was it my fault that I Philip syringes remarkable fucker we're doing. That needs an idea. I don't think it was my fault that all our fall, I didn't take steps. Does it intend to take steroids so actually stayed up to our sports centres is there a like coming up next and sports center. We have Sammy so said: Bob Cost is coming up. Some, like I gotta watch this now I'm not gonna, throw under the bustling he's a friend of the programme, but the sport Centre Guide never touched at it. He was like Sammy had enough also like this is just like it. Is unlike she'll job of like what a magical moment baseball history, but it wasn't a magical moment they cheated. It was fraudulent and the show poor Roger Maris, like smoking, a cart to cigarettes from the pressure of breaking Babe Ruth record I would challenging Mickey mantle. His hair is falling out they're, like I know what a wonderful in their these there's the merest family will they didn't know it was fraudulent at the time we have out
Maguire near the end was like a bubble by I'll just say: I'd did I need it now in the trial You took it. You hit seventy homers agitated, a little bed good bye to help the big nine more homers than anyone had ever doubted getting whenever you are taken was was in their low, but I guess I thought there Equally, we need to adopt like that. You know one of the moves, as you have kind, the deck on there who's
throw in somebody about arts yeah, maybe a multiple bad guys, but you have to have somebody on there at least pointing out like were watching this as its happening going what's going on. Are the balls Joost or the are the players Jews? I regarded the ninety that asked our game and I sat in the bleachers for the home run derby and guys rating balls like over everything over land stout onto like the Fuckin mass pike and others like all. This is clearly abnormal below its happening but I just think like some guys, weren't doing it right and there's this whole code, thou of like AL you, you know the guys who were doing it. The one or the other guys under the bus, but man it was such a weird time and into do it doc about it, but not just spend most of time. Talking about how weird it is now to look back on at. I thought that was weird and I figured like Bob cost. Those like the Pope of baseball. You know he's a he's, a
You know that the steward of the of the history of the game- I thought he was gonna, come on there and they, like you know this was really like scandalous and these was a sacred record, a Ruth had it. Since one: twenty seven Maris broke it. There was the whole thing about a hundred. What two games was a hundred and fifty four and Ford Frank in the asterisk and all that stuff. This was that was a big deal. That was a big record that was like Lou gags astray, those are big. Everybody knows sixty one home run. Right everybody, gas, Lou, Garriga, twenty one, thirty one, everybody knows those numbers. This is a big thing: Inland Bob cost us comes out and Gozo. It brought joy to Saint Louis in the grounds keeper cut the ball. You could make make it like Bob what the fuck, therefore, achieving this. Nobody can understand this, but are we can have a thirty four thirty about Rosy Ruiz, member Rosy Ruiz who had asked in marathon at a nowhere? She was on her runner and when the Boston marathon it turns out. She took the fuckin tee for half the race, but this way
maybe thirty, four thirty- that just celebrates her. Oh, my god, this is adventure rudder when their Boston Marathon, let's fuckin, celebrate that to have thirty four, you would have been a good story. Everybody Joy Boston. Do she fuckin shaded, they fuckin cheated. What the fuck am. I watchings is bullshit, I'm heated again that really pissed me off. I don't understand how journalistic lay you can make a target memory that just ignores what the hell happened. I would have had a lot of notes if I was still working at three thousand four hundred and thirty and most of the doubts would have been like hey. Can you make the last fourteen minutes the last hour? baby bore more on the whole cheating fan. Disappointment fan being disillusion, none of these guys making the hall of fame. Then it's a damn it. Oh microgram made the cargoes hall of Fame or congratulations guess what how fame is never making? Is the reel off him and by the way, I'm on the record, I think all those guys should be in the bank is, I think, most people writing and I
It should just say it on the plaques, because it's hard to think about the late nineties without thinking of bonds, Maguire and so send to pretend, if the half empty museum, to pretend that those guys don't belong in. Z, I'm even though they cheated brain or China do just just me, in that you know, and they a couple times they would flashed to bury bonds. You know hurdles are playing the giants, they had some reference to steroids that show bury Basel like oh yeah, it's all very bad He was the only one that goes both pit an unhappy because nobody likes very bonds right, but Maguire these beloved in Saint Louis and the best means of baseball Mallette Horseshit give get the fuck out of here. That really pissed me off as I can tell that really drove me nuts. If I want it acts. Don't matter is paying give me a limited budget I'll make a thirty four thirty about a rod where people will weep. It was a throne facts out the window and what I d be beautiful, be wonderful, but how much joy he brought me as a Yankee fan will actually be that, sequel right. The two thousand nine Yankees title is at the tail.
Just squeeze in thereabout. He got to describe their year eyes, fund, on twitter earlier guide. Twitter said as I do, and what about Oj Simpson and less forty minutes, you, like I had a few hiccups indisposed playing career, but two thousand yards great. We Buffalo, they loved it. Cut farce outside like a janni willing to do, and there is not there's no sports to watch so was actually how this could be interesting baseball. I remember the ninety eight homerun thing like out I'll, be into this documentary than on watch of just like my Alec, my job, and I was like why why why, like with like a wistful thing, I just don't it is this in the ratings were good for it and the rain We are also not good for the two part, Lance Armstrong Dac, which a way better doc. Then I guard so sausages. Guess may not work out the tour de France in America in Ireland,
I was I didn't watch it, I'm sure it was interesting, but in Eliza I think I think it's a different reason, because they, it was really famous. I just don't think people want to spend. I'm a glance Armstrong here, there's probably rather Sun and ate, like a kilometer, spend another two hours with Lance Armstrong, the guy who not only cheated but was super belligerent about it and threatening to people. In its I again probably not reliving that I mean that's, probably what helped that's. What helps Maguire and Sir is like, like everybody says, will bonds is a scumbag, because bonds was an asshole to the press and came across it this kind of surly, whereas Sammy Sosa was this lovable guy and he sprinted it out to write, feel the need did the hand thing at all people I gather that guy seems fun. You know like it out a course he cheated. Why is because he also used at court bat as it turns out, so he was. He was two for about one which again waited mention that the document put back up after the crucial. I didn't happen either crucial king,
hard Bob. I had to see its way through. The kids did the figure so I do know that just really that bother me that drove me nuts, I'm thirty six, its iron Biden versus Trump wealth, not look too good for died at the moment that about you too good for our common. President, in our things, can change in a minute, as we ve seen in politics lately, but he's is pulling, is not ideal at the moment in our Biden, has really been helped. I think, by by covered to some degree as terrible as you know knows terrible, that is to say, but the fact that he hasn't and back out on the stump. Unlike stumbling or past, they screwing up and he could be sort of like cloistered and very Augustine scripted has been helpful for him, and Trump is never cloistered or scripted. So that's never helpful for him. So well, that's a bookcase. Ours is on this path.
Recently he was great and he was saying how it Biden Base because covered what you just said. We only need three good hours from Joe Rights, it he's basically that Kurt Kurt Shelling and game six Uno for like Kurt. Six index kitty. You just get me a team right with bite in its Can he just give us three hours and stage just write it? Any you know if your opponent, this case trump is, is making an ass of himself on a beat a weekly basis like there's no point in fighting doing anything like just let him trip up and like all I have to be is not Trump basically He couldn't do that and be not trump. The pole Numbers are pretty alarming for for the dad. I basically he's historically behind fern incumbent president, so equally there. He and he will not pay attention to the poles, because in two thousand sixteen you! They showed him behind behind Hillary Clinton at most points in the polling too. So he's gonna be like what
Poles are rigged its fake news, yadda yadda, so he's not going to really do anything differently, but one the poles are is due worse this year than he did for years ago, even against celery and the final poles were basically accurate in terms of you know her winning by a couple points as she did when the popular vote by two or three. In vote so that the polling was accurate. Its state poles are harder to do, and we know the electoral college, but you know, play Lake Michigan, where Trump surprisingly won four years ago, and I saw pull today with that by beating them like fifty five, two hundred and thirty nine in Michigan, so that that's that's trouble for him. Specific states that he has to win he's doing historically poorly, while Trump can look forward to the thirty four thirty that just concentrates on the two thousand. Sixteen election at the last forty advantages, scattered dives into the Charlottesville, The pandemic
in January of this year with a great economy and a high stock market there like it in, and then he left after that that was in lots of stuff happened before before we go on to say goodbye to old classmate of ours whose honour on our how at wheeler to freshman year ended. Uh sure friend of ours who who sadly ass, the a couple days ago and We were on a ha in college. We are on the last co at hall, at least from that era, and it was just a bunch of people thrown together and he was one of them and it is it's been aware, weird weak. Somebody, though you know I certainly haven't talked to in twenty years, but if I had run into been good to see him, but just just weird we're getting old Johnny, so normal a normal HOLLAND only cross would be sixty guys, but because our hall was out, our hall was Co Ed. It was cut in half. So, let's just thirty,
so we all got to be a lot closer than probably people did on a hollow. Sixty guys kind of get lost in the shuffle did so you say, like you know we didn't. We didn't really hang out with him a ton, although he was very close with guys that were close worth there was some guys that were friendly with who Hit them hard in any kind of id surprisingly hit me hard to cause. It's like. I asked even though I am about to be fifty, I consider myself fairly young, so I dont think like I should we should be in the part of our life forward. Thinking about like, of ours dying. You know, and it's kind of like its Jesus, is a slap in the face when I woke up on Sunday and saw those texts from our friend Nick either to them in college, and you now to see that a guy that we need- and we knew, like you say, like we weren't prior to talk to him in twenty five years, like if we saw each other to Morrow. We wouldn't like hit it off like we're still back eighteen, eighty eight or whenever you know this is the Tiber Hall that we add. So it's it's tough today even where it were too young to deal with that stuff, so certainly thoughts and
there's that his his family and his his love one that's at socks, man yet think, though the craziest thing about college is you get thrown together? Thou these people- and you really not together with for that long and you end up like autumn allayed, there's gonna be somewhere between three to seven people that you really stay close to write. And you might not see the other people at all except fur reunions. Maybe maybe you talk to them on Facebook or there is some sort of tax or whatever, but you might not see them ever, but if you ran into them, you were you spent all this time crammed in the same place at them. That you could pick up like you just saw them a week ago were an I think of it. I ve been thinking about a lack. Is it like that someday? They literally we haven't talked you, but I still feel
leg that whole experience was so intense, like all those people are still in my life side arouse while you know it when I read the text, it's funny, like you know, after a freshman year, we didn't we deliver the same hall at him, but like. I immediately thought of like fifteen things that would like happened with him. Freshman year things he sat or things mediator, like experiences we had, and it's like it's amazing that thirty two years. Thirty, two years later, that can occur, brushing back and you have those memories for somebody that you weren't necessarily that close with, but still had. You know some moments in my life and I I guess I had some in his to you know so it it's tough to see it since we're too for that shit, so I take her out of bill. I love you, you two buddy. It's always get to see an end to our neck and Jean And the bird manner bodies can feel at lower it really loved Amelia. So I just wanna wanna say that Jack o good to see you. As always- and I thought you said- I take everybody-
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curious L. Could you are going to have this never happened before? thirteen years of this pact ass. If ever had There are a good J, its alleged her three of them. You know last year was the thirty Fiveth anniversary of you siding with Deaf Jim. I wrote down some of the things that happen that year we had a first. The first bird magic finals. Well the eighty four Olympics with the purple rain, boarded the USA Hearns Haggard the terminator, maybe vice run the obscene better. The hills, cop, so much more woody. Member about nineteen, eighty four remember being a little cable to dream nonsense like a dream of no taken. My. My career to another level in LAO my voice to be heard. You know
is the main thing like what you hear my voice like wanting to not be. Who are just like dissolved in it? in turn, invisible, visible and hurt you not a man like you know, when I'm not gonna hurt you, you feel invisible in I'm saying like you feel like. World. As I see it least, that can be the effect no said. You have responded absurd way, which is an easy, but the effect. Like the world, as I see you so that was the goal for me to just not disappear to meet to let my voice be heard there what's the biggest difference Are you american, two thousand twenty verse, America, nineteen? Eighty four? Ah social media. You know pretty much. Everything else is basically saying: I'm the only differ is a lot of things have been heightened because, social media. You know lot of things you see that would occur on a Daily Bay
is now happening online. Do they do that? bridge the dreams has changed like, whereas before Maybe it was like an off road trails. He dreams now more bridges in tunnels and roads and highways and pop ways and free ways to get to your dream, but it still just as difficult. You know I mean is still just a challenging. What's your role, you having you have such a signature voice? What your role with with the state America's in right I think that you know I had to stand firm up right, and you know I don't want to see you know unarmed, like men being killed for no reason not to want to see people. You know be deeply inflict net position, and I'm saying I think that most of America is better in it and I think you have allowed
You know you have a you know. You have allowed group of you know a racist or making it very difficult because they have leverage. Right norms- aid in some other races who have led to leverage our really affecting the soul of this country in a bad way. I think that you know that that debt morale issue is something that we really have to think about. You know, because you know the stock market to be forty thousand. But at the Morales and base in the toilet. What good does that do man, my friend leveraging the rose? Who, I think you you know as well? he was on his pen a couple weeks ago, talking about. This country that especially the last thirty five years with music in sports idolizes, so many different black celebrities and yet there's this dichotomy on the other side, where they don't seem to care about. You know the rights of somebody
People have been treated now this stuff and how frustrating that is. Have you who doesn't care? Who doesn't hear what like what we had? Louis happily George Floyd recently, where you now here's another example coming on top of a couple other incidents, and this happens Finally, people step up, no one. I think that you know that this the energy right like that fewer was lit young many years ago, and I the bomb finally went off, because this was the sea is very difficult, You know empathy alot of people empathize, but is very difficult for them to put themselves in people's shoes if they never experience. If you know didn't you know if you ve never been pulled over by the police and felt like your life was in danger and you always like a little girl, a little boy. You could go up to MR officer in asking for directions. Without going as for idea than is found it difficult to envision. Somebody They see somebody in that light, but now what Seen is people have seen these backups and why would they
Bluff, and not only do they see what happened. George fly, but never seen how people a deal with the demonstrations. So you know, I think that that's the issue, I think that you know empathy has a lot to do. The empathy and an implicit bias right, because I'm no implicit buys can Jim Jim Kin some consciously or unconsciously, stop someone from ah responding the way that we would hope they would to certain situations because they don't realize they have buys. You know, that's why you here We say: silence equals violence. You don't owe me because you know that The point when you got a step up like right now I have to step up here. No choice that millions of people who follow me, listen to me and I'm not going lead them emotionally spiritually abandoned at a time like this because they met, Is that I'm not a real man
this means that I'm a weasel there's only caring about couple a doubt when you were a kid, especially you're, trying to figure out where your voice was musically. What what songs artisan and what people who resonate with you, hoo, who shaped what you eventually became I must say what up whatever we became. It is funny. You know it was all only hip hop groups. I mean that's why you know rocked the bells is what it is. You not of sand, that's why I presented this platform because it was the the treacherous three and a cry. Through in Africa, Bambara Zulu nation in arm and up, it is for wine. You know the coal crush brothers in the face, ass, the romantic five, all these groups that most people I listen into the park- has never heard of right and then for the core, the core, hawk or hip hop fans have them but then you know and then came the random seas, and you know the rest of the Gaza came at the net. So that's the thing in itself:
that will shape the Mulder me and then you have artists like we're Jameson, you know Michael Jackson in in prince in all those other or is that which is part of the collective Zeit guys, so they affect May I just want some levels but from a hip and point it was all in all a found me Do you like when you look back at that generation aromatic? but a better, the NBA, the first twenty five thirty years and even even stuff I got you know, grown up. No one about Doktor J he's that on tv seems like he'd be awesome. Maybe it's almost like the myth of it and just what you heard in hearsay and then some clips and things like that Minetta paves the way bird magic and eventually Jordan. I think all the stuff that happened. The eighties pave the way for every four
blows up in the nineties. You must feel some sort of ownership or over that old thing right, but what I do, but here's the thing is it doing. Look The reason why I create Iraq the bells, the reason why I created this platform. The whole idea behind it is the fact that you know they'll. There wasn't a pre eminent global voice for classic inhibit the classic Kip in the classic your pop community right. I want to get these where you could go. Learn the equivalent of the Doktor John, A story you can learn the equivalent of the bird. Let you no matter story you can learn the equivalent All of that you know, metaphorically speaking, all rack the bells, that's why, and also was important to me is look. You know generation access for guy, it's almost like We, like the loss middle job right, is either everybody's if either okay Boomer one millennial Millennium. Obviously,
you relate as general de Genji because most of US jet axes Genji our case for most for a lot of us right many of us, some millennials, of course, but a lot of us have Jen. I mean Genji kid so is kind of like we're situation with. Like you know, I said you know what you know. I did I did the channel. I did a radio station and I started discovering like while, like yellow, This is a real thing, like you know this, this audience this Some of this generation field the amiss anatomist, something they loved this culture. And a lot of them, one alone even more about it. Some of them are they one fans, but they grew up with the charge. And they would love to be immersed in it. It would love to be like a fly on the wall and go deep and take a deep dive into classic and timeless hip hop. So what s it was, you know what I'm gonna build a platform that looks at the through a modern lens and really lived up. These honest work here are just like you know, rock him off
not be celebrating the same way, I believe this is if the man, someone taking ownership, it's a matter of when caring enough about it because you gotta remember you know classic hip hop fought for generation eggs That's like a classic rock for the baby. Oh yeah, you don't owe me so so classic hip hop around. Like you, don't run the sea every year, I came in public enemy. Roman stones and our You know me, that's our version of that sort. I felt like we had to have a place where people could really delve into the entire ecosystem. So it is not just about rap music per se. It's about the entire coach here would be able to back there. You can buy books. There you know hip hop, is bigger, hustling, bigger strategy. So you can have a reach their poor. They had not a war as a they books hip hop.
Is a lot about fashion, which you can get everything from you know affordable. You know everyday items to like luxury premium brand, you not say because that's what hip hop is. It goes from the cornerstone of private jets. Bright. Every rapporteur is not on the cover of Forbes. You know get back to just making it, so it really has that debt dead man with an end, I think, by creating. This platform, I'm also, most importantly, lifting up. You know the people There have always been a platform lifting up one DMZ, I'm listen up Erik the Iraq him. With do not crazy legs. The bee boy breaker risk graffiti artist, fat, five, Freddy too. You know apart from upturn and brought it down here. You know no blondie wrapping on you know one rapture without Fair five, Freddy, you know you There is no basking in the blinding video on or behind a turntable effect
Freddie, doesn't bring Basquiat to the video shoe because Grandma Flash show up. So that is so these are the things in the stories that you hear about rack fears. You have an ownership, big daddy came haven't ownership and the reason why I gave em but to make sure that not only did I have strategic investors who put money into the platform but I wanted to make sure that the people really pioneered the game. Fanny had an opportunity to capture some vague, so guess what is you support rock the bills that calm and you buy something. Yes, we have, we do affiliate deals. We deal with Amazon deal deals with different people for sure, but when don't when you spend money Iraq oppose that com for the first time the action, Finally, as we actually help paved the way for a culture actually kept, when somebody value so so so so good, who is the equivalent of doktor J? Finally, you not say it getting it
part of the tv deals gray because not build a leak. I did tat class. A graphic example is a really good point, because when that serious channel what year did what year that happen: I did on rock. The bills are serious, exceptional forty three, which we did it about four years: yak it there another chain of that data before that, but I always liked the serious does a good job, sometimes with the heiress like I'm going through this era and as my son really started getting this stuff, that was one of the channels you know we're listening to and he his he thinks. Like basically RAP Star, where to pack and biggie in others, guys in it, but then he eventually learn that no, actually, there is another fifteen years before those guys exactly inhabitant, it that's the point right there, Minister, I dont want what I want to make sure that two three hundred years from now people the story right, you know This package is gonna play way beyond us, and it's like. I saw you
make sure that the narrative is right. I want just someone you son looks at it. He did Tupac ambiguous and some about two of our greatest Addis, but he should also know about big dedicating rack him know about. Grandmaster cares really know, you know be smart in No, no, the history, you normally, you know what really helped was the empty documentary. They got is an air who directed it, who I actually to project with before that he really try to be era specific, where he showing the footage in trying to get the corresponding song. For that thing, and it s not did it really work, but it was a fun chip down memory. Lane and you really think, like the music, sports and a lot of ways were so aligned as that when, especially in the eighties, with the Big Zambia bestow, Romania size now, but if you know It was the only been showing live finals games fully until they did it for I was right whenever things taken offer for music and hip up,
I think you know he connected with the genetics. Any connect, Would people who had that? Oh mindset, you know my song embed unlicensed on bad foot, for you for that four M Jays for their protection as the sixty three point game, embossed enemy. It's unbelievable! How great classy, hip hop can be You know what will we ve been? Will we finally broken through the barrier that I believed that rock the bells has broken and that, as you know how to come. Is this idea relevant because it for there was a few men for a few minutes about five, maybe eight years ago it just felt like, if you are hip, hop artists, but you weren't at the top of today's trot, you didn't mean anything you want. A treat it like a pop like like a boy named right by I'm, not just respected a boy, but some of them kind of get marginal ass a little bit on certain levels. You not saying it's like you, hot thing at the moment, but it soon
You turned thirty, five, all of sudden sudden dislike whatever you know. Unless Egypt, you know economy as like. So it's like, I felt like that. The road that he thought was going down, and I don't want to see that happen because we have some the great arts in some truly great you know poets. In the game. You know- and I believe they should be celebrate- well other than a tiny heads and a tete, a tete, a successful albums you're. What would you say? You were the first person in a rat b. Do you think you are not? You were that I wasn't there like a major, a major one. I'm sand Bank, like one that was publicly dissected in a real way. The one of coma. They knew think that that was part of it. I think that was unequal. Mouldy had had busy people before that and a cold crush head things they against the fantastic five fantastic romantic five, and it was a lot of you know, beats me beat them, went back.
Yeah, you know me. A motive was deafening heavily pop up publicize at the time it was probably the first modern era. You not have seen classic Times hip hop beef and did you know in the moment that this was actually weird they helpful to both? You know No, I mean when you look at history is like you know, or what a great kings feel like they have to have a victory in battle. In order to succeed, What should I name in in you know and have asked us. That's a shotgun, right. So you know there's But now I was just you know a little kid that wanted to defend his hip hop territories sawdust in my reputation as ever as an m see you no one ever Is it right that will guide a culture? No different from you know to deter? Please just you know playing solos back and forth, because it does not happen like onstage go crazy. You know to me either is no different as you watch that kind of
you know blow up in the nineties. Did you feel like this was headed toward the death knell of sudden? You know to Baghdad, big dies. Did you feel like oh shit? This is actually going on direction. That's that we were going too far. Soldiers there you know, is interesting. I was It is. I would say that I think think the media at the time. You know media that was covering hip hop at the time. Just me the decision that we felt kind of like sex I'm. So I think that, because of that kind to that. You know it was attached to the hip hop boat like barnacles in autumn there they can't make sense, magnet on hip hop refrigerator. Instead, beef is the thing that wasn't really about hip hop. That was more about two guys. They had a problem with Egypt
at there and they have the light. So you know you know it's a really interesting the ability to make fine distinctions. You know if you know, to politicians. Gettin a fight in the elevator, because one of the guys say something tat does wife that he didn't like is that politics I don't know could be. They were, doesn't happen Would we will we? Will we treat it like a political? Yes, probably, so I think that you know pack ambiguous hip, problems as individuals, and then you know hip hop. Conor got caught up in that because the The media found an angle that was interesting right like when you an angle better interested in you run with Europe with that narrative, tat kind of that's what happens in the US, the term via magazine, was Conner
only really pushing that heavy yummy. What share look? all these years later, what what's Abbe near the most proud of what I'm proud of my body of work? Like look, you know my fate Saunders doin it end up. You know I thought My second album, bigger endeavour was a real. The refer me because my sophomore album and you know- I did added to the project without Rick Reuben and no, what at what was gonna happen, and it was really and big and saw that was a victory for me, but you know I'm incited by my body work and I think the body of work. Look. That's the whole point of this whole thing. Right, like you know, and I keep them. Back to wreck the bills, but I have to book he had appointed is. Is there I want to celebrate classic hip hop cold? as a general as a movement. You know as an ecosystem in really lifted up and give
whole world away. In the end up teaching you're, not a fan and let him learn and led him to be excited. So you know it's always about the collected for me at this point: let's take a break to talk about full sail universities, Dan Patrick School Sports, casting ledge, their sports custodian, Patrick note from the damned Patrick chosen in full by the Olympics, Sport Centre guess, I'm Michel and for my faithful appearance on show base seventh, two fifteen he's teamed up with full sail university to offer an accelerated bachelors degree in sports, casting so universally combines hands on learning, immersive projects and with real world experience to prepare as for life in the media industry and they brought in some sportsmen is best to be part of this programme, including time is PAN producer, Malta, Army winner and my good friend in
wedding party Gus Ramsay. He setting up the programme sports casting pro such a sage deal J hairs governing on him any above. I am recently talked to a whole bunch of students on Zoom for a long time had a great time. Gus has been doing that bring it in. All kinds of people to talk to the students can say absolute can have classes, but there too, people about inside and out camera beyond the camera. By casting radio interviewing everything in between at full sail universities, Damn Patrick School sports, guess you can earn a bachelor screen about half the time. A short is twenty months and you can His your degree, I minor or unfulfilled campus in Orlando afforded to learn more about full sail, go to full sail, Slash Eu Slash Bill Siemens and you can find out about forcing universities, both Patrick School of sports. Casting back to allow could so you and I are natural enemies because you're Yankees fan Lakers
Larry, I'm a boss, the bed, so we just hope has been reduced design that the like each other but we can still have a beer or good, but the Lakers. There is a story a couple months ago that you talk will be out of doing a gangster rap album. Can you can you explain what the hell happened with that cuz? I was stung by that yeah. You know a television show in the house, and it was a sick I did with the owner member Yan nearby, jobs and David saw me major. We and the raiders. I would, former elderly Rayner Year, Mary in here. So so, we'll be in direct fishermen. Copy was a rookie, he came on, yeah became ownership and I beg you to guess appearance. You could find a footage is funny. We had a great time we talk and crazy was is alarmist, but during the course of time
and he was my job I wanna. Let you hear my album at this music blah blah blah, so we go out sickness car and he's playing these gangs the rabbit right there. You gotta remember this probably nineties. Who's, that what was the name laddie. Ninety seven rain, diaspora near like ninety seven right, so I had thought it in in eighty, for you know these I've been in a game while at this point yet, though, you know, I'm signal an unlimited cities records in his is M testing. If tat and I'm too listening, I'm doing that blah blah blah and I'm just like I'm like. Yo Yo Yo called. May you is distinguishing, if you dont want baby was me, I said: listen if you ask your athlete met that's it, I'm a rap accuracy or let Milburgh s name doesn't that the rules are different footing. At that point, it was Phronsie now with social media, you couldn't do the gatekeepers probably
had the same controls to have. But at that time, if you two says something out of pocket. Back at a really heard, a career in a bad way out like people and compare Jornal abroad in that regard. What they know realises the context of the times might couldn't do certain things that might probably wouldn't have been able to say that would really went left for him said some of the things that labelling it was a really different tat. It doesn't mean that he couldn't have had the courage to say it. You know, but at the same time would he would have what I leave career. You see what happened with the you know different civil rights leaders over the years when they spoke Does it mean that it's not worth speaking out? I'm just saying it was a difference up. So I just Helen called LE against the death. Now. Would you want to do in on you know? Ultimately, you know it seems, like you took my advice that the apple never came to me in there, when you look at it in that. I remember, like you, know Alan
listen with unbelievable player, who I love. He had dropped some music and I remember that there was a big fire storm around that any kind a bad David, Thermos pissed? This is one of say, so you know and you know as one of my favorites but on say it like. That's all called me like does not going using any kind of acknowledged in Then a never came out. So I guess he was that with such a fascinating decade for the league- you know you had in the fat, five and college basketball, their motion envelope in the NBA. Iverson shows up he's completely different. Kind of superstar. The league ever had and me and there's a certain demographic. NBA fan, who reside going on here forget it goes back to implicit by his right yeah. You don't think you don't think you feel something, but then, when you see You know a black guy with a du rag on a hoodie on you associate that what a certain
of behaviour and it's not chase you don't say I don't drink any different, then guys I grew up with you know some You know. I have a couple of shirts. That course a little more here and there but You know it is what it is like. I was just on any kid on the street, but if you don't understand kids in a mess. It then you know, you know your judging judge wrong. I think you know dressed we wanted address. I understand that look You know, dress codes and all that I get it, but a was it like you just some people who don't understand it just because a black man has a direct, nor was gold chains that doesn't mean he's again back. You know, is crap it's like a little joke that you know, why does have a tendency to making you take criticism? Is that again sign? You know right now. If I get a job, is like you, ain't yeah I mean I'm sure, that's why Coolby felt leg I gotta make I gotta make.
Sab only just a weird time for the way you were always just inspired to make it by ETA is the truth and his life, but the issue is that No, we have to have the ability to understand people have different truths, yet it no in No, you have to be able to accept the person's truth in it. Doesn't you know you know just cause. You you, how about you baseball heroin backwards or gold chain doesn't mean you know you out to her feet. You know to me: will you friends with them with a copy? We were sosius out. You know when you hang out on a regular basis, like that. No I did hear the less. I saw was at me rest in peace in power was Michelle Obama thing that she did at the stable centre, which began with the up lecture thing I saw em up. About a book- and I saw him in the basement- we talk about getting together gone dinner. You know stuff, like that. What you know that
but you know I was a tremendous losses means one of my favorites ever you know me. I guess shouted to net one a day, no satellite. It really affected me. You know, maybe who'd. You have four greatest Laker about a Laker yeah Laker. Well, in any just be somebody who pass through the team, but happened to be also greatness. Credit has to be like who is the greatest Laker. You know gotta say I gotta see in terms of just overall impact. I would probably have to give that to magic. Meet and I would I would have to give them the magic, but I tell you copious he's right there again. Differences that magic not only did what he did. With five rings, but he took him. He asked Lee I mean you can argue that Karim did. It was certain step, but really made the Lakers Brad like hee hee. No time really took that you know him worthy, but he really made that brand what it is so out. I would only because
made the bran what it is. I would have to give. It meant that, although I am I worked within one year and be a countdown which was really find got to normal or a bit, you know him. What am I fear? magic things is every summer he goes away on these creating trips and then he does. Media, bad at Instagram, anomaly, Highland in ITALY. At all this, you bet on this trip. You, but it was sent. It was unbelievable. I mean it was the best trip in the world. You know saying it was it was alive Fine was a lot of positive energy. Lotta positive talks, very uplifting seemed Jackson Ladder Saint John, well. No SAM Sam came later. He went later, but with me I mean you know we have rightly PETE was out the magic you know, Kevin, lousy, Frank Cooper. Yeah, I was unbelievable men of the divide, the energy was. It was isn't, it was magical, in a gigantic boat. Here we are
big both nor language. You know me, I know you, don't look, you know it's all relative right, like you know you can have the Look I'm a bit on the biggest jets and all that and have also been in a barber shop and guess what you know when you, have you laugh and when you happy, you happen, Monseigneur it wasn't really about like you're we the boat and we want to, like you know, start on people rub it in people's faces. It was more about just we live in a world now, where you know, which is you know, hey. I home video. You know I'll, let you know you and it was this one in doping. You know it was crazy. You know sounds like It was like a living like James Bond for normal. For some it was that's cool right, like you know, I'm going to see if you know came from queen. You know I'm from I'm from the hood, like you know how I mean you know what you don't want to do. What you want to do that I mean we want to live our best lives right in that's what it's about so yeah
The animal would no doubt was the best like a game. Every ever went That's like a game yeah, we are only the big I can think of it. That way, I think the most memorable like a game for me. It is completely separate from with anybody with them it was a game when I saw when called, he was still a six men in The pulling a matter to gain really quick like. You would go anyway, just really quick minutes and they would pull him out in found a pull them out even get ready to start before the court, and I looked at him when I was like Like you know, he was that United so funny to me, because it went from kind of bee alike. Big brother metal at the last sitting. Next to him French, and he would like looked straight ahead. You know when he doesn't talk to anybody and was like ours just remember, saying to myself like wildlife
we really turned into a grown man and the champions. When I met him, he was located in arms and yet it is seventeen when he got drafted year about that. Like the way you know when he did it, at issue that was like for me that was like you know, seeing the similarities, because most people don't notice that when you think about the similarities, you know say you think about light. As just like watching him in this. You know was really. He really impressed me as a human being like watching him grow to become champion, he became you know, man he became the father, he became the athlete he became. I'm not became, but the champion at TAT he became was just some humbly to movie questions very young. Following aid to our deep blue sea, deep blue sea, no doubt about it, love Jamie Curtis or goods we
barbecue together to set with deeply hilarious. Maybe eight, my bird and all that, like look, I tried out forward to career. You know, I'm chatter, you know do keep grounded. Of course you know our feet on the ground. You know maintain my mom mom momentum, dexterity and strength, but you did Lucy was dull. That's got. That's actually gained steam as a called cable classic. It's on other time, which means people are watching it because they wouldn't show it affair. If people were actually watching it, but it's got it's got it there said by, I want spoil it. If somebody has insignia but there's a tracking, dare say right, the middle, that's I got my god. Would you suffer, but it's good when we do this Pakistan, the ringer caught the relaunch about where we re Dad movies that we ve seen a million times we get one of the first ones we did was any given Sunday, ok you, ve been asked about a million times, and even though
You know Oliver Stone Rees gets a little carried away with some of the cuts in whatever I still think. There's so many good things that movie and really a classic patina form it's too, but then there's a whim one other parts of the of the pack horses. We try to figure out. We can have sitting that research what's real. What's that real about the stuff in the movie, there are so many different different version, of whatever happened with you and Jamie FACTS, even like wake, as you guys deftly had a fight have a fight on the sidelines in the locker room. No, we, and if I don't, we are finally sailor in on you know you know at the time you know our I was, you know, method acting in really in character and color. You know being that would Jamie and in in the themes, would not trying to heard on budget line. Nor will the peasant talking and he said, look me. He said, You know, for whatever reason he I think he thought No Jamie taught that arm. He thought TAT. I was being theory,
some, but I was acting in no, I guess for what it is. You know you got it all. And thought it was. You know a good idea to put me on my face. You don't owe me, and I disagree. So that was that you started gone at it, but they were they filming or was it rehearsal disagreed wholeheartedly with it did they put put in the movie or they put in as a slice of iter? stay. I don't get somebody like back and forth. Maybe, but none had not none at real stuck the real stuff cleared the whole silence because it was also is banned It was like a bra, while it lasted also you one was it: was it a tiny, tiny rounder tonight your Larry Look baby. I got do that. You have now learned when he has. I think I was afraid that was tat. It was it he has ever. You guys are friends now no question nook agenda. That's what I wanna get up here. You know our
I do not like that, if all of its owner he paused and then it was tat and then in the locker em you guys your characters had another fight, but that one was not a real. That was. No that's, not it yeah government, a happy. The craziest thing about that. That's the thing was was you know my mama counted Juliana believes name yet was you know he? You know he had this thing where he was sniffing cocaine. I have seen what specific? Okay and when they do that they use and his enemy. You know some instead of cocaine yeah. What did you say? it never enough. Eta has made use it notices. Your Oliver had built up later Would you, like thirty, takes shape of sniffing, whereas the media are you telling me broke like guys Your out is left meant what running back, did you borrow your character after you study, NFL run it we more Smith? Was it not,
marginal fuck? No, I was Well, you think of my size and all that, but one that he decided thing must Albert that my favorite was actually twenty Doucet. That's my as why what thirty three mechanic what thirty three, because it Tony Blair said, and we get the play in Dallas in stating you no one in there. At that time. That was unbelievable, that the devastating stadium time, and so you was though it was more Dorset it would you remember between us really brilliant. Really. Smart hung out with him when always house, you know we watch the Riddick bow. I mean we wasted. I want to say is it? Is it? Is it Riddick, bony Vander, three was it Linux anyway, I want to say, was boat. It was what I don't live. Animals bow wholly filled three air borne, a sensible sword, red one of the other? We was that this house, no, you you watch you watch a paper,
potatoes House here, yet we hung out what was the fight nor allow yeah sings, they allow what to see if you want to come over, not under all of us thought you don't you like Ali, you, my leg. He knows, I doubt erect yourself. Like what I do direct azaleas with big illustrate that with wonderful before we go. I have to ask you one, and I see us away question my dad. Yeah huge fan yet on huge fan is very, is see still recovering. Firma he says graziers dead, but though the real got Miguel Frere yeah, he He died in real life, but he his question, for you was had that affect the show. Whoa whoa Granger. Unama always called him. The coolest guy ever met my life. I mean I mean this guy his voice, his demeanor,
He was so cool man I got off, they got Miss muddy. That was just act like like such a charming. Cool. Do like you, you know forty, our middle, like like me, I'm not great what horse, like you know, nobody's perfect like a random horse, oh really feel comfortable. I don't really like what is that like that, yet random tomorrow, my being around we feed them play what have been all that, but I'm so my riding in your we obviously the things we in Afghanistan, the girl comes, ran up with his horse. You know these like you just like is unbelievable. Believe was this. But he was one of the best. It was one of the best nonsense like four rip, so so your dad is right to say that to put that much on on his contribution to the show, because he brought a lot to the table. Miguel was real special rules how many seasons for you with that show. We gonna Levin seasons, sulphur. Yet
Let me take it a million years when you took that job you'd be like hey eleven years later, not legally logo in Africa. Two years ago, just wanted some else. I have no idea, as I feel know, I'm saying there and that those who, like the best gigs to get for acting right, because you just you're in thing is everything except perfectly: it just keeps going to go and yet more leverage every year, as the show keeps stand successful. Would you know? Is it you don't look? you dont, you can never know what's gonna work was not gonna work right, you don't you dont know, so citing may appear like tat, but you don't know you did you notice? It does a basket play. It noted that gonna stay healthy for twelve fifteen eighteen. Nineteen seasons, notice, Vince caught a noted, he's gone. You know his bodies don't be able to handle that. If you do you know it unfolds right and you you have the deal with things in a moment, but the one thing I do is I just thought approach.
The whole thing with humility, Nosair an arm in arm and also just keep build, Neuro saying in keep moving move. I at last question you have to answer you can't you can't you can't sneak this one because we're coming out there that the last dance go go conversation right, who's, the go wrapper. You could take as long as you want for this year, the Phoenix but the problem is that is that it really subjective because you know anybody named stood on the shoulders of someone else. So it's almost like you. You could say that about Jordan right You could say that about everybody, but nothing is that that you know.
I think, be great. I think greatness is very subjective. Well, you know, I really do. I think you know, because. You were inspired by others. No matter what it is you in by it and learn from others. So it's like it's more about who had the greatest impact on your life personally right, reacting greatness. The real metric is it's not about greatest basketball player. It's about greatest impact on assert the fans life therefore, we really debating what Be debating is who have the greatest impact on your life in a specific field. That's why I came up with the term go. I took. We're gonna, go whose famous street basketball player I took greatest terms by Mohammed Ali and are formed an acronym g o.
It made the album go interrupted in two thousand and that's where the whole goal from the whole term came from so wait a second. I haven't I I know that I knew you had album named. I didn't know that you actually created the acronym. Yeah, but I may most people don't know because it took on a life of his own yeah just assumed was there for fifty years now you can you know we can factual tat. You can fact check. I want every search engine in war. I dare say that's really impressive. You know that's one of the most impressive acronym inventions. Working women wealth, it became joy. It entered the lexicon for sure, other God near so is So when I said I was to go just talking like hell, I'm the goat, like I feel like I'm- it's a water period now something to feel like there for you and
I didn't have the greatest impact on every hip hop fans, because every hip hop fan was impact, felt the impact of different odyssey. No different fans, Philly impacts of different Addis different athlete, different journalists, different writers, different authors, different, but I'm just lead that you know I was able to say you. I was able to set aside and for the world by say your. Go in everybody, so creating that sitting standard. I being you know, but taking it Ali, said it take and taken man to go. Input NOS two things together setting instead it you know, I just became something So you know Emma Unama go it alone, cool Jake. That coin a phrase I you win, but I think you know it's funny. It's like acting cause, it's really hard to say who's. The greatest actor about them in sports we can at least use championships and stats and weak, add all these other things and in acting you can't. You know why can't you champions championships instead,
you know everybody, does I'm a very clear but because they don't measures impact, l a kid who thinks well brought the goal. That is not to go because he wanted H these ships etc, and only one a certain amount of whatever he's nuts running it, because the whale abroad impact it is life is crazy. So so The gulf is a measurement of impact, is about how many wreckage you saw. Not about how many times was at the top of it. Just is that by how many rings you get is the impact that we dealt with. Did you ve had grown people, so Look at the last. That's what do you remember you not really taken about the rings, the thing that jumps or screen it when you watching the documentary its impact, you look at it Michael Jones impact on a world. That's how MRS measure is measurable. Impact you clone. Also, the experience has seen him in person, which I thought it did a good job of exam.
Because that way at all the guys I ever saw he was the one that just on the room, the matter you twenty thousand people ask an onerous. There's nobody like right now. I can't believe you came up I can't believe I didn't know that I felt such an idiot. I thought that has been around since, like I don't know, Joe value or said that definitely not well a basic wrapped about that com, yeah do a good stuff yeah. I, like a like the whole mindset behind its really cool. You, like I said, is far right about that comes to sir on people. You know a classic Thomas report generation, exe. We owe mindset you not have seen, is a space where they ask is solid. The culture in a big way. You can you can listen to the music. You can, you know, the excuse of audio and video we had all things associated Souci classic Hip hop as a whole ecosystem. So if you're in that man,
and you really want to know what hip hop is about for real. You gonna write the bills that cop you know said straight. This was great. I really enjoyed a good saying. Thank you procedure, baby love. What I before we go. I wanted to play a brief excerpt of dock rivers, who was awesome on flag coach with Steve Car and P Carol. We decide the night pack. Has they ve done that the podcast will be the last one next week, bad to get back to their real lives. Coaching and and do not things that they do. We ve been so happy to have this package on the ringer and miss Terry them just go to the fine coach feed which he can finance on Spotify and an apple, so Is that right now, Doc, rivers, just an excerpt from that. Cast it dark when it when you have the opportunity to share those stories of big view. Background and all are you
Do you shy away from do another? You quick to do that You probably recognising your players similar stories stuff, which we will have surfaced in through all of our discussions in time, are you an advocate of guys share in those kinds of backgrounds and in your own personally? Was your guess: yeah I'm very personal, but my players is funny, be when I want got a job in coach and I got calls from coaches and told me up close when that your clothes, you know two players, you know one of the two thousand and two I found out early on that that was wrong advice. I take up as a code in my opinion, you get close again job, you care. What are you doing? Give them as much love as you can and I I've learned over the years, you're going to jar broken some by that, I mean, because you will give em all. Sometimes They love you back and sometimes they don't, but even if they do,
You still shit and I think we are forget it coaching means teach it. You know, and I think our jobs are teach more than basketball. Gilbert advice about life. I've got in trouble honestly with a cup of wires, where I just didn't like the way they were living their lives, and I thought that I need them Scotch with what the they didn't like me anymore. Because I said that- and I look I can add. That figure was the right thing to do, some dead beggar was. They would thank you later. You know about that, oh buddy. I share my background. I share my history, you know, I've been through a lot of stuff with raised up Chica. Oh it's just an extremely segregated city, especially I grew up you know and may would you say right across the borders meroz. Barbara part. It depends
if you're walking at the police or whoever did want to Bobby there, times they did, and you had to deal with that. You know I get the market. I merrily Chris programmers. It was white I get my house burn down, which state notion then San Antonio by skin, it and that was rural day for me and my family, So did I familiar did a sterling stop just go through life as an American, but Bessie a black American and you know, it's funny you can be poor. You're, still black, you can be middle class, you're still black and you can be rich and you're still black. Brazil is, when you become a coach or an athlete. Someone will give your mind.
And so you have an opportunity to say ah said and so I do, I think, is very important for my I urge you know it's funny. Starling didn't came out. I remember walking into the room the players in the the arms folded. At large is like that. They know. Their mostly sand? They don't want to hear your crap right now and then I couldn't get droop or but five minutes, and then I would I move down a pad Would be everywhere, I put it down on it what I said I'll get my Glenn Rivers, from my work and I'm black, and this is my life and I shared story as I start Sharon's stories, everyone on their arms because the coach. Sometimes they forget, you know what- what you are- and I just like that you as a coach- and so he I think, is important to remind them where you from
I think we ve been talking about it. The last couple weeks yoga we talk about it with great pomp of its last week as well. Coaches, this is basically just as white people. I think there's theirs. Finally and understanding now As far as I can see society that white people to do more and and for white coaches. As much as we think. We know that, black athletes go through We don't really know pop pop reference said, and there is great article in the New York Times. Their monetary darker. And I love the way he put it. As only pop can you I said you said you think you know so much talking to himself he's a you think. You know so much your privilege, son of a bitch, you don't know anything. And that hit home because we As coaches. We know we try to connect. We try to understand everybody, but we couldn't
Those of us who are white couldn't possibly just simply put ourselves in a man, shoes and say: ok, I get it, but it's a pair. We have to try. I think that's the most important thing right now. It's imperative to try and I think that involves telling stories sharing knowledge sharing, feeling your sharing things that maybe we haven't share before, because sooner age, a bout of being shy, being reluctant to you know reveal things about yourself, I think everybody's got a really share them their stories their pass and go from there. It's amazing Steve. I am. I did it the last week where my players, I was shocked at what I did. You know tat. I lose binnacle. I'm I coach, Tyler he's been a culture in Boston. When I wanna when a title, let's go to me with the clippers eater.
Stored. It blew my my and I'm thinking. Wait a minute. Spread and I didn't know the store oh, and so such an amazing. All of us, I think we all have to educate black and white. I think why It has the educate as far as understanding the impact, ups of slavery. It and just where it put all of us. You know, but I think black understand it as well, and I we are on a journey right now? Can you imagine a story that Annabel players and a players detail if they just put him performance. It tell me about your life and and they made it a movie or it would be the most powerful thing, and it is shocking to all of us, I think, how much does Zapruder thanks to allow cool J thanks to my buddy Jacko and we'll be back on
Thursday with one more part. If you, MR we watch, was we need flax in check that out as well Enjoyed the rest of the Middle EAST.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-17.