The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by civil rights activist and podcaster DeRay Mckesson to discuss a plan he and his team at Campaign Zero have been working on to systematically reform police departments to combat police brutality. They discuss how the use of recently obtained data, education, and smart solutions can help bring about these changes (3:45). Then, Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll are joined by San Antonio Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich to have a conversation about the state of our nation, how we got here as a country, our absence of leadership, and how we can take action to grow and bring about change following the killing of George Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer (46:17).
Here are links to resources that DeRay recommends podcast listeners explore:
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I think we desperately need right. Now we are seven new podcast from Larry Wilmore, who recorded something that I think is going up right around the time
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Basically, either they they divided. For
evenly through things ankle.
Last matter global network reclaim the black national bill, black visions, collective NAACP, legal offence and educational fun, the national powers.
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The chasm coming up in a little bit and he runs campaigns. Zero, he's gonna tell us all about that they're up to something that super important right. Now. What
on Sunday Rousillon I did a shoot the ship. I cast commoner
everything that happened on Friday and Saturday night. We taped it
for a son- and I really heated up and before really are-
broke with some went to another live on Monday night Trump basically turned into a dictator,
and I ve been thinking long and hard about just my pie
ass in general on this platform and what I want to do it that over the next few weeks and months- and I think
yes Miss read the moment on Sunday night I was trying to do a shoot. The shared take your mind. I've things kind, a pike
like we would always do on Sunday and the money.
Was bigger than that, and I wish I had had an x.
With us to that we
about some questions off. I've tried to learn from it.
Have treated the moment like we did so. I apologise for that. Lack of fifty years old
I still barely know what I'm doing and I'm still going to make mistakes and still not going to throw a no hitter every every step of the way
do they. Ideas learn from a mistake and trade.
Get better at it, and I think the mistake on Sunday night was
bring in somebody with us who
brought a little extra knowledge, the table, which is what we are trying to do here,
The second area is the re moccasins. So I want to use it
I form to educate people and make them pay
and made them think about? What's going on and right now, the there's only one thing ANA. So that's what we're gonna do so here,
first, protein driving cousin here he has said the people of France, Britain, one people campaigns, Europe which
is launching a new campaign. It can't wait that work. Eight. The number eight can't wait dot org, and this is something this is ban. What six years now of your life partners together,
Yes, I have only written about is a verdict in twenty four team. We want to see for forty days. It once doubt those protesting about our back on about tomorrow, pretty going I killed, but though he said
back and we were like something is systemic. We don't know what the systemic he has been on a wide is happening all across the country in a consistent manner across time.
Who plays a summit?
gimme there, which is, which was this idea of like we can live in a world with a please I'll, kill anybody,
If not came, paid, half is lacking a been almost escaping zero.
You are truly fair solutions in the past six years, and even really laser focused on what solutions are like, I mean
so much more than we did before so for the people s, I think it's important to know. I think, there's two tactic
going forward for lack of a better word one. Is you no delay?
in November. People know what to do. If you want things to change there, it is
The other one is just learning more about not only police brutality, but how to stop it and
you know, I was on a zoom call that you had today for a bunch of people. We basically laid out all this. A can't wait in you know the mechanics behind it and stuff, and it's all this simple stuff.
That you guys are saying would reduce violence by seventy two percent with police and all things
are easier to achieve that, I thought you know that.
Then I realized I didn't. I didn't realize it would. You know America changes minded something in three days and stuff that so can you walk through the part where different cities, how easy it
the change some of this stuff. He agrees you're doing just talk about the contacts that we set a limit, what what's gonna with police violence, yet with their first cattle emerges, her kind
accident. A third of all the people killed by strangers. United States are actually killed by police officer in March and April of twenty twenty two police kill as many people as they did in March and April of twenty nineteen, the cove in quarantine
actually had no impact on the police, killing people, even old people in their homes, even other than historic, decreasing crime.
MIKE is nobody's outside the police, actually still killed the same number of people and at the same rate, which is sort of wild re. But this will remain
Did you, the toy nineteen with a fresh ever black people were more afraid of being killed by a police officer them.
Job alchemy need. I think. That is why. So we look at these contacts and say it it makes sense.
The acid decided in Minneapolis it's time. You know why, because it meant
I was black. People had thirteen times more likely to be killed by a police officer. There might be, is the highest
Rachel disparity with regard to police violence that exist in the country. The average is three times the average bipartisan is three times more likely to be killed.
About the least asking the white person. It also makes sense
why, in Saint Louis, it started in twenty forty because they Lewis has since twenty thirteen
had the highest rate of police violence across the country right, so we,
and about solutions? A solution has to be to the that has both change, police, baby and change the outcomes.
One of the things that does that so effectively, but in operating under the radar is used to force passes there a path
that we track across the country and leaves a pound.
These when it apartment goes from none of these policies to all these policies. It, honest sadness,
you presume, reduction in police violence in a beautiful thing is that there are some positive things like risk requires de escalation, so requires officers. If they can.
In brief space in between them another person. They can talk somebody down,
it requires. Other debts requires them to you.
Different methods and tactics that might escalate things like banning charcoal.
He was rarely simple, but only twice
if the hundred large police departments even banjo golden Stranglehold today
around. You said you said in your research New York overturn that right here,
What makes you so interesting is illegal
actually banjo called a long time ago in the sixties over the years, is the first major policed,
the country either. The media is the biggest placed firmly country tobacco calls
and then quietly after gonna gets killed. The lift lifts abandoned on
in the way that he left the ban is actually sneaky said he read them your city policy. It says juggle debate
Eleven next page, it says everything those ban on the paid before can actually be
ban on a case by case basis of a committee that is, for police officers and you're, like what
abandoning boy if it can be unveiling on a case by case basis, is not a bear
so I'm Minneapolis chuckled on family out was better than the joy of fish are gonna pay and only twenty eight hundred cities and remember it
the difference units only strangle a job,
Is that what you're airway
stranglehold is the muscles in your neck. Restricting blood flowed to Europe to your head above.
Have similar impact back there's some places, friends in advance.
Holding down paying stranglehold they both need to be
and then things like do their duty to intervene so
Does it ever acquired to review that they see another officer engaged in this kind of trade and we
want that to happen. We were the only way to those very often got fired him. Any opposition activists pressed for a duty to intervene clause in the use of what,
also Minneapolis, so those other offices are how responsible, because they didn't do anything as that
officer? Minneapolis tat is all about Mr Floyd's next leading days. That's right
We also tracking issue in the movie infinity vehicle why
she didn't will make you should write. It lets common sense.
Somebody to drive a car. They die as the guy he's going and it goes about erased. So
Eight of these things and you can find them out. Eight can't wait out war guy is what is launching tomorrow. Is a campaign.
How do we make sure that we in these aid things how we may shortly put in these policies, because these parties will say blacks
so you found in one of the things I was so hard with this researches. You couldn't get a lot of the policies from the different police departments right. You couldn't even find out what they actually had either in there.
Code of conduct stuff here, so within the EU. I, the resale right, is that it's a low bar.
You should know the rules by which the police can judge. Reading.
As I said, we just like a low by the police marble across country these a secret, my brain
they they dont covers done, so it took us a couple years, even get all these words policies from the hundred biggest says we have to face in cities as something up
the taxes, Birmingham we had to actually find lawyers, we see the city and waiting
from love. You know was not this way
not very easy, but we did it with powerful bodies for the first time we actually can compare policies across the country is the first ever database. It is to fix it,
So my I agree that she seen legislative reach has been I. Finally, we have comparative data finally
You see the language it exists in other cities, I'm actually really powerful
Then you also had the the actual
data on how somebody died seems too varied
Anyone who listen to say at the sort out all that to right here. So you know
there are a couple database, dropleaf arms we manage and was carpeted database about forty thousand the country, the big one that people know the Washington Post, not a wise imposing,
basically we like them. I suppose they only capture people who got killed.
On duty by ninety answer, with a go somewhere.
One, is not their data base, because you get the gun, I mister Lloyd, and
in Minneapolis Ninety database confused. I care what the guidance of Humor Barton Jean with go by Amber Geiger. Wish. You aren't you.
Apparently, the guidelines I am dead, she was off duty will happen, so that's not included
wasn't was database, so our database,
the only database in the country that are on duty off duty killings, all weapons where the police, after contributed to the death of a person,
as the debate has been using over twelve hundred studies, just in the last three or four years, which is really powerful. I missed it
He stated that we all set to clean and, like I'll fill in the
because in America you, police officer in the media does not write about it and you don't exist and not for a while. So you're almost approaching this, you know cuz, I know five hundred and thirty eight is done some stuff to your matching, this data from different places and trying to paint this picture that becomes irrefutable after a right. We're just like look here, look at what. Why did this
parliament that, as all these safer methods, hey what a coincidence there having less incidents. Why can't
everybody do this, and at some point it almost becomes like sportswear
you like in the NBA psych hey. If you shoot more threes, you score more points at some point.
But he's gonna, look at this data and have the same realisation right or why? Wouldn't that happened yet
Here? You know one of the things. That is that it is true that the data analysis pretty new, so we are the first people.
Virtue grants. Data like this is the first database I get is ever existed.
Some of it is that its new year on we identified these policies matter just supporting more than other things like that suffers. Study like this is ever been done.
So there are a lot of their Iceland legislator is another people who want to do right, who, literally just in have access to this information, because it looks as though we are sympathetic to that.
But now that we know me that we must try that not amount to it's cool
Is it knows every city? The mayor has almost unilateral power to impact these changes. Today, mayors and police chiefs could put these policies.
Place. They save lives. I got is a really powerful dang. I we want to normalize the fact that people can talk about policy, that people can look at the policies in their own state. There
cities. We start with a hundred largest cities and in every city in California we are slowly branching
other than that you ve learned is that police cams have not really worked to curb violence, which does it make any sense, but that's what the data shows
yes, there are finding that don't work, so body cameras the data. It is clear that they do
change the Lisbon scalable way. There's some studies that
There might be minor changes to police beggar, but it get in the way that we can scale the next year about training for their to training.
Are often baby. Decisions about those change apple is out of date,
she's, not a babysitter phrases, implicit, biased, someplace advice,
the training where they uncover the biased and offices have about razor about gender identity in their best studies show, as their offices were predisposed to those messages boy.
Come out with the greatest attitude changes.
But in general doesn't change every Sunday with better.
That's very new research are just a few
It's all about mental screening, and it shows
their training police officers engage in mental health crises in which doesn't change. It
behaviour we actually probably should have that mental health experts do that work.
What is around the number black officers amidst actually gets interesting. The number black office does matter, but it doesn't matter until we get a thirty five percent of the force being black everywhere.
Why. Why is that
so I don't know why it is. I've been just with the head with the research shows it's a very cool grass, so you see it
doesn't matter. Does a man doesn't matter, get thirty bucks or the police department than it actually goes to the number of people killed us down, while only with this, because the challenge which the challenge with which makes us not a scalable solution, is the only twelve to eighteen thousand police departments that exist have over thirty over thirty percent black composition citizens.
A global solution in the fifth community policing is the one. We highlight the idea that the community and police trust in each other more that the outcome will be better
with this. We would say this ideas racist at its core, but it's only,
I can brown people poor people that we'd ever say. You know what the policing about play football with MIKE.
The dream, like all your be like you know: what is the police had to take my daughter out the ice cream dinner? She heard the flat in Sri Lanka rights like that's a real
This idea we'd never offer that idea room. Why people people an apple communities like that, you know them better. You achieve not killed them
Read them better. That I'll be unacceptable, but also the data is clear that community policing it does actually change the
attitudes of the police in a changed. The attitudes of community members,
doesn't change the outcomes which they use force, other frequency with which offers issues for those five days. Don't matter and one other thing
You guys are really passion about that. I never really thought of extensively and tell em
rollin everything out on the zoom was. Why do we need this many guns with the police? Why can't we too
boy, different people in the union in different ways, and why can't some people just be cops? I dont have guns in one.
Why do we need this
special finery behind doing their job.
Yet further requesting that we do so, even though the strategies to promote its reduced, the power, the police and that will be focused on what a way that is about reduced
the power that they had to inflict farming communities. It was powerful about that strategy. Is the police
they things like a viewer stood the ability to use force and it makes it makes us. Let's say you don't. I would have liked to have less architects and abuse.
They began. You shall go with a rather dangerous situations like this doesn't make us D.
Would the data shows that, in the places with the most restrictive policies, the police or the safest and community members over stages,
Also shows that there is no change in crime, because a police state
Ok at those policies in this area will be more dangerous.
It is ass. You that's true, but the whole second strategies, which we talk about. It's about a shifting the role of the police about shrinking they're. All about it is that this right is about shrinking the rolling
these trade. So we look at the data. Lastly, of all, the rough it up in the country on the fire, gracility arrest, haven't verbally crime, only five percent right-
and I feel like a dream. It s an especial that is beyond number for more than twenty years, only five percent of Europe's happened about crime, but we staff resources, police department is if it is fifty sixty seventy percent, or rather prevailing.
This is not the case, so we don't need somebody with a gun going to a matter of crisis. We need somebody with a gun going to a car crash. Really somebody
I'm trying to analysing he so wishes
all those resources away from police departments.
And we should share all those responsibilities through police departments.
We shouldn't narrow the scope. So finely
the only thing that we have anything
armed intervention is so small
We don't need a whole forces of police to do these things
and that is a real solution, a pollyanna solution.
Georgie of what happens with no one is not things that require armed intervention and we just don't need a police apparatus. The way that we have today. So you said in two thousand fourteen. I just couldn't believe that the police and fire tear gas and oil,
what had been a peaceful protest. I was running around face, burning and nothing. I saw the deck America to me. You said that in two thousand fifteen about Ferguson in two thousand forth into the New York Times, you could take that quote right:
and that would be everything. That's happened over the last week. I think I thought two thousand fourteen was gonna, be this sea change moment in a lot of different ways, and not only was it not a sea change moment
it seems like the numbers have not gone down in any respect. What happened these last six years widened things get better in your opinion
Yes, the numbers didn't go down the numbers without the police, Kellan Average eleven hundred people a year, the number of people killed since twenty fourteen has not depth,
LO, the twenty fourteen number at all. After what happened, you know
I think what happened? What does that? We learn more than we than we ever do race, and now that we have the data, we know the analysis that we actually know. The levers are, we know and forty forty with a structural lovers works. We knew that there were lost both his new practices that we will have to be wrong, but we have no
We do know anything opposition contracts we didn't over it isn't there is a lack of awareness of the investigation,
so there s more than a year, can never result discipline regardless of the outcome
We know there is a line worthiness as an officer can use daddy force and they think you just committed a family or they think you're about it. We didn't know that
it's just a really know that in Chicago they destroy. Please also display the records every five years.
Let in Seattle the contracts, eighty austerity discipline.
Embarrassing banner before the public. We don't know that a Minneapolis there's a closet, says a bacon, accurate unity oversight, but the community oversight
We can never have the power to discipline. We didn't know these structural things right. We know now:
and because we know we can actually be more focused and how we press and how we find online- and I am hopeful about the re aimed at waiver team- was the awakening for some people. I think about what they twenty every chance, that we get the changes that people promised us in twenty four tee, but didn't have the political courage to follow through on. Why do you think this became such a moment? These last seven days d, if you had to, if you had to say one thing: what would it because for me I would say the video so horrifying, and so
inexplicably literally watching somebody get murdered that I think people couldn't shake that, but then you bring in all these other things.
And now you have where we are now. What do you think it was? Do you think it was something different
I think that if you remember to fourteen twenty forty, we went to like a million new italian panels rebels it with people like what building their understanding of issues around race all across the country. Right it was. I people listen to buy, get like it was about
people, just like learning so much trade
I think that, now that people know the information they built, their capacity are really all that we'll have to twenty
t we would want a lot of work, building people's understanding about racism, instruction we'll have you, then we get it right. That was actually the important work that happened in the past five years. So great a moment. Our people, like I get it. They thought I better get like this. It's fruit, I like I, want the already fragile right. They already get it and adding tat was resting, are now also having to
I set a new new people to the protests who, like ok, we saw
people street last time you promised someday.
And you didn't follow through, so we don't believe you waited why people resting in the street Lummix Total says to me: do you think that the fact that Europe has become such a reviled president, so many circles actually helps this
general waterways, because people want a rally about around different things. I think
you know, he's a big Chalmers, there's not much
Is it worth anything? Positive is coming out of the way out from China
Thirdly, arrays injustice
Also, my for that
The police have very little to do with local that President rated it little to do with local policing at eighteen thousand police departments, its mayors, Governor City Council, that got ashes where the power he is ass, a
central to exercise. The full extent of the president's are: what do they call? You don't have to guard against
calling the military to screw around,
in the deal J does find. The majority of police Department for the Biagi has never condition that funding want anything society itself at the police.
The present really doesn't have a big impact on local policing. The president, as managers,
three biggest. Please, the farmers in the country, as you can imagine, they border patrol the bigger
his rooms in the country ice, which we know isotopes
People need every detail daily rate. Minister. The countries was sixty thousand people detained each day by eyes
I mean the FBI out, which is a domestic police force,
these three agencies are managed by the President and that is not insignificant. The local police departments,
I really local issues and the merest
way? More power than they want a lead on with this stuff. These guys, you know, we have got said he has been on this package in LOS Angeles, whose on tv every night, he has more power to check
and at least some of this stuff, then maybe he's writing on right.
He is a cursory is over? The police commission is an actual structural. I lay in the police. Commission does happy surfing.
Has to be involved in any policy changes with regard to the police in the police. By me, Applegarth
The mayor points out those people so
The mayor has a lot about the mayor, manages the police department. The mayor manages what policies were moving, not so so
so you may. I have a lot of our mayors like to say that
if you do it, you know we are were taken away from the police, the higher job that we want to create. The pressure
say I can meet any members have asked for these changes and want these changes tat right now and that the most
mirrors had the power to do that. No legislation does need a whole lot of hearings. They actually can move very quick night. So let's take our Seti cassettes that one I'd probably know the Basque. As I live here. Let's say he cause you and says I need help. Give me three things I need to be doing right now,
three things you'd say so we would ban. Will we want?
but in place. Are he policies every word? You very quickly
in a way. We also want to cancel a contract with legs of all. So let us have always it
our party that city ninety found within the police departments in California outdoors
cause you right into this police laid down tank.
About what ban at today,
mainly in in a lady, wanted do a set of reforms about how the police interacting communities so their hearts things?
I see me we're my small as though the LAPD stops black people
This therefore seem more than other races, with no pre tax, with no power
will cause distortions in search them in the data shows that there are hosted those practices that we want? The police to stop immediately in early
Police, Indians had been written about allowed these last few days and they have a lot more power than I think. A lot of people knew with protecting officers. Protecting people made mistakes. All kinds of things
How does that get sobbed had had a we get everybody
be able to work with them so that they can try to solve this too, or do you think there have been interested in solving it.
Through the police unions are like a whole gotta, be a whole package stay home.
Please use are really hard
we we manage a whole project around policing- is it's called jacket.
Please don't works so to show you that simple issue contracts that are really danger.
without with accountability and more public safety, and
The police had been the single biggest impediment if these changes across the country they been allotted.
They seek to really are awful. I could get a wifi, but
The union leaders have not be awful will whenever Mister O, so high
You have your interest in the union staff to go to project the police. Are organ in check your police, you contract
in terms of what we do about them. The union strategy is is a little bit more long term. It's like a tutor I've, your strategy, because most
these contracts last for about four years,
can't really renegotiate them and tell them until the until it expires right anyway.
Go in inducing their work, so you and asked him what
that we worked with the broadest damaging depletion contract. They did it and it was incredible or working. Similarly,
people already? Similarly,
people in Portland Oregon right now to change depletion contract
but the longer strategy. I already made some of the causes that existing contracts, but it's really hard. You know,
in the contract is why, in places like a Minneapolis half of the people who were hired, you rehire ray
I met a trailer. We see all over the country that certainly operation in Minneapolis actually pretty standard and a lot of cities across the country, and you are worth.
In the Minneapolis school system. When Ferguson happen,
I sure, was working to build up. I was already Minneapolis up others who lived in a lot of the major cities
I am for about some ways and still more resident Baltimore,
lived in Minneapolis in the protest started lived in New York twelve years ago is a middle school. My teacher, Jimmy
This is a hard please. I used to manage our staffing for the school system. Minneapolis and even then the racial is very
Medication system were so deep there, despite the fact that the city has enough.
Sources to offer a quality education to everybody so severe. So you were you weren't surprised that this became ground zero
not surprised at all. You remember that when we think about only they go Minneapolis, it was, they process lay protest inside eighty, my brown and then there was dead
Arclight Protests, and now it's this
Do you worry at all about about trawlers and opponents, and you know that the stuff you're trying to do is really important. Stuff you're gonna have a lot of opposite.
Genuine, a piss people off. Have you worried about your safety or anything like that.
Here's what I think about my own situation here. I try not to have found a distress out about it, the first person ever permanently, but every twenty was banned for raising money. To try and get me kill me,
as is the miles I've been sued by police officers in cities
We won all of those at the first time. We got them all, dismissed it in an officer and memory.
Here too, we are actually appealing to the Supreme Court right now, because how it was how that I could be
I could be held, it was found that I could be out steadily negligent for an injury that he sustained at one of the protests that I was out. So we will be,
during back from the Supreme Court, that any day now about where they can either case
phone act. There was one day I was on a one day. I was on the piano next thing. I know my own says:
Please I can make you found. This is really weird. I don't really understand and
and then I realized
it's called arise and finally, that sum is called rising. Can they have used myself security number which got dumped on the user last for
Nice also dare to get into my account, posing as me. They try
phone number one on the phone. Luckily, you actually can change your phone about over the founding guide, but they did James, the civil guard over the
reset my gmail? They I reset my twitter account like they just wrecked havoc. Until I could get the access to my account,
not you long ago, my address in Baltimore got out.
I and I about seventy food deliveries and the span of three days. He was
he's been enact. She has been really it's been
It's been a long alone.
and I know what I rest hours ago with somebody.
The people I risked, but
is worth it because I think that we have a chance to change history. I think that we have a chance to change other tradition.
Save so many lives
item is worth it. Are there a
other people. I mean you're, probably the most prominent, about the activists in this particular space. But are there some people, the last
shares that have come along, like you feel, like you have people flanking you that
profiles that are growing and energy,
in the same kind of influence and if so, who are they
The reality is that there are so many incredible leaders happy at the local paper like there are so many groups
Gaza has been most of my time around Brittany back. There was an incredible leader we may each other in Ferguson together so low.
We go missing anyway, who knows all about data, and he is just a star we'd minute. Alchemists am I miss him on Twitter
he likes there. They were Holly's tweets about who is a leader in that I had a and families
What are you gonna do about it? I wasn't my idea me: he do you mean like some ideas.
We can only get out like this may sound his days. Let me know I never met him before so tell me like
They working together, we'd, never lose sight of the scene and then one day I'll, never forget, I'm still literally in the street,
got me like I, and am I quit. We gonna money we can make
and he was right.
Believe me, this work I want, if you gotta, do, is start with you and we ve been together ever since this has been great. So I said those that you people have
in the majority of my time with, but there are so many credible people all across the country doing their work
our are you funding campaigns, Zira and all the stuff that's coming out of it.
Why should you know we ve gone donations recently,
he's been really harmful, because you don't
spend it funny. People would see me like also bear a Sunday labour that they must have all this money. It's like a team that I'm closest to back me literally, had an average of one hundred and sixty thousand dollars per year, asked for years that we split amongst ourselves
The people have we got to like help us out we caught in a lot of favours. We heard a lot about hears us up. That's why the websites are beautiful, but they definitely bathed in the middle the night, because we dating oversight me Greece, after supper liquid,
so we did it with a lot of money without a lot of
sources, but with the best of intentions and the right focus. So this
the four percent ever we appeal of donated to us now, like you know that
donations and its sole and that's really powerful. But on that
first it like this is the reason we even have resources. What's funny casual, you grow up, worry you, like always you like
we ask of ever, they have less, are like the dot them yet she could hire. Somebody is still crazy because, because we couldn't before you know
yeah. I was going to say what would you do with more resources cuz. You know, I think if there was ever a time to raise more resources, it's right now. So what would you do like? What? What would be would say you were able to pull in an extra two hundred and fifty thousand or whatever
where would you spend our money here somewhere? She working on so we launched a scorecard around California. So if you got a police car cried out war, we read it all
please allow me to California really powerful
did it ever been used to do that? Like really proud of that
she rolling scorecard, hopefully soon that is all the police farmers in the country with it. In a city with a population of more than fifty thousand people, it's incredible
taken as a ton time to try to figure out again
data one place, because nothing like this has ever been undertaken before
We got money, we actually probably find help to lake scale that up really quickly. We
Do you know I personally still contracts every morning every morning I get a new battle.
He's your contracts.
Colleagues, I put him in the right buckets. Guess I've been doing it for that's what I do I an hour.
But we can. I see, train people to do that.
Probably do I we probably hired somebody tat
and is volunteers, so that they can feel like. Sir,
as you will be regional bailing out about here. Am I I just don't have it
to do that right now, so so yeah. So so we were
look for capacity, and we also frankly wanna help build Cadre, ray policy experts and mister.
Guess is organised as we believe that the data the past
that change people's lives isn't
anybody can understand tat. We never will create a system, as you have to go through me. Come to me. Did you go work
So we want to read this should be this knowledge as quickly and as effectively as we possibly can. We need support and how to do that.
So that we can make teach these coworker people across the country.
The data? How to use data? You know how to
like expand the data in ways that we may not even know it
is like here and now very early stages of doing something now have a dramatic, dramatic effect on a lot of things, because the data at some point becomes irrefutable, you know and its end. I think people are trained,
free data. Now from whether a sports fan or whatever you just gotta used to this stuff,
Think of where we were in the mid nineties, even with thy dna evidence in the OJ trial and people like. What's that,
now think where we are today. Twenty people get it like. They understand that stuff. I ask you quickly about on. You know a lot of people. You will got you a lot of people in your life ladder. Celebrities and everybody who has a big platform is trying to figure out how to use that platform going
and I think, there's pressure on famous people like there's never has been before you know, like even Michael Jordan, did a statement denouncing the George Flood murder. I know we're supposed to go out death, I'm going to call it murder, but all these people are trying to figure out why people love me and respect me. How can I steer them in the right directions? What kind of advice do you give whoever
a famous mba play, reaches out even says. What what can I do? How can out what we do with the way we did to you today Ray we were
them through what the data looks like and then what the solutions
and the reason that we don't you say like post this thing or do, the thing is how we you're
after hundreds dead, every single thing ever do it you get
you can do it right,
We argue with that information them that the better ambassador that you can be for the cars because we don't want to do is like you posted as somebody at the pretty basic question, but you feel, like you, don't really understand, and then you ask
who's the message these messages,
better when you can put it in your own voice, when you can explain to people why depletion baby,
You ain't a million vehicles that matters up does so you need to thank them
is that it doesn't make sense. You'd know it as it makes three so people reach out as we try to do these little work there.
Are like an hour long and we try to pack as many as many of our friends are covered,
We can in I give and one that I think was pretty big are bigger than adults. We hear that
wanna do you know he won our people understand when it is because people are smart enough to understand right.
Give them the ammunition. Then then it's up to them had it had to use it acquit them without without the data yeah it certain
it was I opening for me, and I felt, like I've, been reading a lot of stuff really the last weekend in a lot of stuff you brought up. I was just like cheeses: can you do that?
They really quick, fair just for the audience tat. You did on that.
I am about to say, think of your safe place.
He isn't it you either we have. People stood up refrain that concept, because this is about structural assistance, but the other half
Really big is the way people can see. I looks like that for a lot of people, people think of the police, a sort of the day, the case.
So the first is? Are you have been alarmed rooms and people say to me: I use data depletion ever kill somebody.
I say to them. Every time you tell me,
somebody that matters to you call me a cue democracy,
You tell me somebody love winking, the police car that person, when is it
k for police ass. If a table to put a bullet, do you
his head was the daily.
She could do that you're totally found with the end of her life. Is it a bank robbery either
Petty, daft, isn't it!
Aren't you what's the daily you're, ok with me
of your job
time people like Elena
and to give you know,
every version of what you could do they come home alive doesn't mean that they have a consequence, but they come home alive.
Every parent should advocate that comes up.
At the end of the day,.
The second thing is real
pushing people to refrain their understanding of safety. So we asked people to think about the place where you feel the most safe.
And then we asked them other police there, the police, are there
the police, are not in the space for you. The other day
that's how we know tat. You know, I think,
is not about how many police officers there are.
The use of our resources.
Please is that artists every service at a place with the most resources
So they're, really, you Fatima savers, improbably add with probably
secure it, probably a fool
They're probably were people that you love there. There were memories, a winning,
everybody should be able to have access to whatever was in your space. It ain't you feel safe. You know we
an interview coming up after this one on this, so that parents deep crowded with great pomp of edge- and I want to step on that- but he made a great point that I just wanted to throw you really quick
He was saying how people's attitudes toward police violence
They did change the same way that had changed with John driving and how we were in this point. Sixty seven.
Is, and even the eighties when people just got the car,
they drove. I know I did in college, you know, because nobody,
Tell me who is a bad thing to do, and then mothers against drugs
having and all that stuff and within ten years it changed and a change in all
ways we're now. It's not a good thing to do. People know that data
You know you got a deal I had, it could be something that
hangs on you and near you could kill some others. Are these terrible things? Everyone MIKE,
they're gonna be aware of that, when their old enough to drive in their old enough to get a partisan things that I was?
as a wherever in the eighties. Do you think if we get this way with police brutality with what happened with drunk driving? Do we get there at police brutality of next? Twenty
here I'll plan bill had planned to be fighting fighting this issue for forty years. I think they will face us in our lifetime another,
They claim right because when we think about the last hundred years of rights for the police,
is one of the only institution that has remained largely unchanged,
but we know way more about the way the system is functioning than we ever have before. You just know the mechanisms we know it
inside eye machinery, and I am hopeful that have we but people out.
In the right direction- and we will get the outcome that we
I really do believe, and I think we just gotta focused people. We think about eagerly await out working as a first step
settings and will be releasing. But this is like a media, the fashionable it's very clear for people, and we want people to understand that today
contains today again, you notice anything that the trunk administration has reminded us is the guy
make a move as quick as it wants to
that you to ban all people from the country on Twitter.
You know we would have laughed at people it's about that before
again. The government can move either you think about it. You know that
when told us that, like their one enough of resources to go around its like, we figured out how to feed all cities kid
breakfast lunch and bitter enemy
today is right that the government can figure it out at the needs to be should force the government to figure this out. So its eight can't wait dot org, but it's the number eight nine. It's part of campaigns, arrow, listen
People have to donate campaigns here. If you go to join campaign, zero dot org than you can donate their but they'll be it. Does anybody know any can't wait out work as well, so that you can
There is a better product. Emma I'd, give you a cab, easier, alchemy. There is a final once three we advocate
I d number, you can only right there if you don't. I don't like the one about the link. I didn't just email me there
Yet the reiterate our very easy. I really
My way down, thanks for thanks for coming out. Good luck with this.
Now we can wait,
bill. I think we'll wait you. I can't wait to come back inside you.
So are we let it really really get a report shepherd at each other, thanks again Greg
thought you that if I were you
play? The entire episode of flying coach receive care, P, Carroll and great pomp of age, but first
Why I talk about forcing universities, the impetuous go broadcasting. You know the impact from the damn Patrick
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wholesale that EU sash
bill? Simmons we're gonna play you the entire episode of flying coach, which has its own feed that I don't feel like,
now people know about it: it's hosted by Steve CARE and p care, they grow
it was absolutely outstanding. I really wanted to get this out to a bigger audience. We ran on our ringer NBA, rendering it fell show as
but I think the most support there. This is right now, maybe more than any other time in my lifetime, we need smart people who have led teams
and have put a lot of thought and energy and time into the concept of leadership and teamwork, and plenty ahead,
in building a culture of things out with some great right now for America, but this is an awesome. Conversation really proud to have it on the ringer, and here it is flying coach with P Carol Steve her
and great pomp flying coach, Bod Guest Steve Curve.
Carroll and are
special guest today, somebody who would normally be introduced with all kinds of that.
Attach, whose name- but I know him too well, so I'm going, I'm gonna cut the bs,
Craig Bob of thanks for coming on today. Thank you for that statement.
Very much shares
Much has been interduction Stephen S, the great arms pervert
you guys get history. I have
be honest. I yeah I played for pop for four years, peat and um.
Coached within last summer, in the World CUP
I've never felt as nervous as I was today. I think I've now
stand the sideline reporters and what they actually feel as they go into like that and be a game segment knowing they got interview pop at the end of the first quorum of Canada,
can I ask you a little bit, you know: that's it just a stick right, yeah, that's right,
Talk about that at another time,
very difficult week,
And I think-
more than anything today,
I just want to have a really open conversation with with with
two coaches, who have meant a lot to me in terms of mentoring and who have learned so much from
and who are also really well connected to their players through relationships, and I just
have a conversation on. What's happened
in the country,
relations where we're heading. How
can actually create change in our country.
And maybe what our places are small places in that big picture.
They go start out pop by judge.
Asking you your feelings, your thoughts on the last week or two etc, that is the starting point and the trend is out exactly how to think about it.
What it means. How did it happen? How did we get here?
What what are the reasons? Why did we mess and always
we have another killing so, for my part, is personally as a as a white person.
One who has obviously participated in the privilege that we have- and I thank you in a lot of people's situations,
a privilege that they did not, even though they had it sort of like you just for sound a little bit hyperbolic, possibly to some, but it's like we were born with innate
its supremacy? Because we were born white and is eternities, he code says there there's no such thing as white
do you have to try to live your life like you're? Not wait, it's very confusing to most of us.
But if you were born, why you have a
view of the world that does put you in a class of white supremacy,
whether you wield that power negatively or not is beside the point, and most of us don't realize that as weird as we're growing up, it's not something. That's in your face, just like every community, jewish community, black community, so on and so forth, has not monolithic
neither is white supremacy. I don't think I've ever going to wield a confederate, Flagroot, Nazis,
bull or where a coup Klux clamoured over. That's. Why
extreme of white supremacy. There are all sorts of levels and I think the more than white people face that the easier it will be to try to come to some
standing so that we can all live together and all Casper injustice. So as this happened, I just felt a deep sadness but the deep frustration, but also of a horrifying embarrassment. As I looked at the office, your face with his hand in his pocket and the nonchalance with which he carried on for an instant just took all hope away from me for solutions in a recent device. Deafening all stay in that state. But for a moment it was like my gosh and taken back
the hoses of the dogs in the sixties, and then you know all the Jim Crow and the Rodney King and then all the deaths in between of young black men and women, and here we have a public lynching and so that the embarrassment, the sadness the anger,
welled up, but then the overriding feeling was how the hell do black people and what people with children deal with something like this
and what can we say or do they helped the situation so just
in that year those role with things that were going through my head and, I think
all been feeling that way to some degree, but but especially as coach
who are coaching african american players and
an coaching with other african American.
Coaches and knowing their families and in one
personalized and you can see the pain it is so difficult PETE. I know you
I've been in cars.
In contact with your team through
You resume meetings and with sir
The recent. I guess
normally they would be called many camps, but whatever you guys are calling them you you, you guys we're having daily zooms over the last couple weeks. So why
have your interactions been like with your team? Well, first off the idea, because
of our long standing relationships with with our teams. In my place,
in the background and always
caring about him enough to one another
their families and want to know where they come from and want to know what they ve been through to travel
stand a better in love better and as we go through the process of trying to make when in teams,
The connection is so deep,
and in the the
their standing as we have.
As I have learned over the years about
pain in the discomfort and know that that the horrific burden that are better players carry with them.
There. The responsibility to want to do-
continent, an knowing that were in a position where maybe we could do something it makes it.
You're such a challenge because it feels always vessel help. A second identify with
upset that moment when it when he looked in the eyes that guy and he just didn't care. It is enough
just like a lost feeling. What how can we prevent this
been being a reality in all, and so this is a way,
Philip returnees Gregg, I'm so glad you did you doing this with? This is really I'm hoping it's it's just three three white guys speaking the White guys in India and in less
the people understand kind of where we're coming a famine and share with them, and so the point Steve as it
in our meetings and as we go forward on Friday, we just we had to address
what was going on it. It was started and knowing that we are leading into the weekend, that was gonna, be really heated up most like
and then in accentuated it the craziness. Now
came back on Monday and went right to it again and again we break up and with we have
if teams within our team, so we have a kind of set up make up where we can really visit, let guys speak their hearts and and talk about how this is impacting them in house affecting,
and so that we can all share and everybody stories that that's the process that we went?
We know and andor we ve been here before
and we ve been through this before from my younger players together- that the roach in comment is an opportune for them too
here from our leaders- and we have marvellous guys that speak on behalf of of the communities and speak on behalf of
their families and speak on behalf of themselves as teammates dates.
Show the way forward for younger guys how they can speak and talk in that's, ok in our inner in our environment, it to communicate it all
in the hopes of a just finding some kind of sensitive
of understanding you know, and then how do we take the next step with this new experiences
just left, ruinous it's so horrific as it is again is a guy
is what kills a scene on the problem,
Can it happen we were facing it again and unfortunately,
no the fear of it happening again in
ahead of us is just ideas on
purple tomatoes to think about anyway, so the point is that we will try to interact as much as we can with the guys in here from them
and listen and learn and grow.
In in and find a place where we can act and do something really positive, which our club has done that over the years, but but
need to do more and were never done and we can't
that I know the white guys, I make it my staff, as you said, we mean with a bunch of guys on both sides of the table here that are
different issues and backgrounds we can't live within a
We I swear looking at this. We can't do that. We emit says the privileged, like you said, pop, why people have this is live
oblivious to watch my ok answer, I'm trying to convey
that's my guys said. We see it that way and they were trying to learn from each other and see if we can move ahead near together,
I want to eventually get to that point.
What can we do? What should we do, but but poverty? You brought up
the reminder of the sixties. You know with the fire hoses and the dogs in here. For me in this was a reminder that Rodney King was twenty.
Eight years ago, right so the point being
This has been going on forever. It continues on forever, so
we need. Why does it keep happening? Why has gone on for ever? I think one of the most important dynamic
of all of this is, in our view,
a refusal to
reconcile our sins of our past and
no some people are going to save you know I slavery was abolished in you know during the civil war- and I was,
some time ago. Stop it right
This is why this is
the thing that is generational. It's four hundred years in the making, and I think that the probably that
the thing that I think has to be done before anything,
is an understanding and an awareness that there now
needs to be a reconciliation and admission of guilt.
Again, I don't. I don't think it should be
this is not a message of Hale you white people, you should feel guilty. This is your fault. That's not the point.
But this is where our country is it's our responsibility to admit that this
What's going on in our country and low
look at our past and let's truly examine our past
and pop I know you, you ve talked about that dynamic, any any thoughts on that front. Sure in a sense, it is important that, as you said, it's not admitting that your guilty of something on the face, but silence or inaction or being oblivious, makes you complicit
and that's the point that a lot of people don't understand as long as they are lot yelling
the n word, or they are not the ones stopping somebody on the street they're not in the trucks chasing a young black men down, so that makes them innocent
That's not the point. The point is to be aware, as you said, of the task of those centuries of tree,
an understanding that emancipation
really do a whole lot, because it was followed with reconstruction and Jim, Crow and so on and so forth, and that admission much like Germany has done in their special circumstances is the starting point. It's like building a house, and you start with the foundation that admission has to be forthright. Come from the heart, we're not going to reach everybody. That's that's an impossibility. So this is not an effort to be perfect, but is an effort to make the country live up to the values and expectations and principles it in two thousand, the beginning, some of which were lies for a great number of our citizens. So that admission,
is the starting point in its on us as white people to make this happen. So it's it's a constant, and if this doesn't do it, I fear I dont know what will but a daily. Every incident that does happen have to be called out, whether its by the government or one of your friends,
your close to but amazes you with some action or some words.
His or her mouth everything has to be called out. It was a good.
Well then yet I saw the other day. I was somewhat speaking. I wanted
new shows about changing the culture. We talked about alcohol and driving drunk and how that culture changed, and now you know basically you're a pariah if you get caught breaking while you're driving in mothers do that that group change the whole
culture. Our society really changed with that. So we do have the power as a group. If we stay on this, call it out and be vocal all the time that small percentage of people that won't following the line they really want matter. We can get this right to the point where the justice system changes and we stop incarcerating, so many and so on and so forth, which I'm sure we'll get you later, but that's the starting point for sure what people have tried for a long time. It hasn't happened yet and where the price,
where the fly in the ointment. That's right. I couldn't agree with you more parted people and in the committees of color they they know the pan and reality
They. They understand that it's called upon the
The problem lies in the white communities not respond
in and not the awareness not being adequate enough
so that we do see here feel the.
Indiscretions that are happening and we route with we act on it. We will respond with our conscience, doesn't allow us to do anything but respond, and
there. There is work to be done because the sublime
nature is. Is it
not okay, and in one of the things that have happened as it is.
One thing would be that ok, I've
non racist person in on. I don't act in that way in a mile, my actions,
this in my everyday life. What that's not enough! It is
to be anti racist? We have to go a step further. We have to
beyond an act and take the action plans
gonna be a challenge for people, it's it's hard
step. When you hear a conversation, gonna say Navy, greek, clean.
Blogger whatever you might say, to acknowledge the fact that you're not accepting that which is is getting carried on around here. We have to get bold about that and I think that happens through knowledge.
An education and awareness in- and we have to That'S- why guys like us, gotta, keep talking in a week we
through a lot together and in our stuff, and we have to keep talking and in a laugh
the mentality that that is, a mentality is necessary and we perfect.
We ve got screwed up and you know it s not done well enough. That's why I feel frustrated. I'm not doing it
I'm not honoured enough. I can't get active enough to create the change that I have been to make progress. Not cheese, change enough
help progress down the road here and get better what we're doing an end
What really hard at it really important for us all.
Well, I think, one of the year one of the camp.
And to this whole aware
This is just the education part of it and I think up its
it's actually embarrassing, but
A lot of american history has just been omitted from our textbooks and I'd live.
The couple players who have been really interested
In a race relations in politics in history, David
how do I know you coached path in San Antonio and and also Andrea
the dollar and I remember, having a conversation with Andrea fears go and
we're we're talking about raising in and this subject of admission of this great sin in our country.
Said culture we ever heard of the Tulsa race Riots, and I said no for great example-
right any says I said no, I said
and I'm immediately on what put on my on my heels, I said who would tell me about them,
and he explains its so basically, this incredibly
successful african american town called black
whole street everybody in town,
was sir, it was a really thriving town and there was a non and altercation between a black man and a white woman. Some
and also, and basically the whole town where are these african american people live- was attacked.
And dozens, if not hundreds were, were killed and the whole whole neighborhood was burned down. I took
Eric and history and both high school
college and I never I never heard of him.
So what does that say? We don't even
future tour. Our children,
solve if we're not teaching this stuff or, if we're not actually sharing the information. That's important how're we
going to ever understand what people are are actually
facing three hundred people were killed in that massacre three hundred
You couldn't you just see that I think that there could be such value if in the educational system, that we wait, what we thought
the history of racism in America, or maybe
This raises the
for it would take to get the curriculum there to get the teachers and get the parents in the family still allow that to be brought into their schools. That whole process may be as valuable as the act.
Teaching that happens in the in the classroom for the kids, but without recognising that history without acknowledging it and in and call it exactly like it is. What are we talking?
how have we have? No wonder people don't want? No one. No other people can remain oblivious, almost no wonder they can stay living in privilege. If we're not even bringing out the truth that we just need to get the truth,
further. Then I would caution
We can figure out how to get at an inner classrooms. You know, coaches such a great poets
how do you hold someone responsible if they're just totally ignorant and have no idea about what has gone on in? That's why this pressure has to be constant by
white people, whether it's whatever municipality, you're, talking about whatever school board, sure that's it. That's a tough flog for sure it's gonna be difficult to get something like that done, but it's it's agree,
boy and to begin at as early as possible is probably important night. I was tv, Romeo
there with my eight year old granddaughter and I was watching the news she happened to walk in and-
It was the exact time with a replaying displaced them with his knee and George Flights neck, and I didn't realize she was there
right, I turned for whatever reason I saw her standing there and she was just daring and she said hopping. Why is tat men have his knee and that man's neck? What is he doing, and I was I was dumbfounded? I didn't. I turned it off
should I left it on the explain it to her or how do I explain it to her now that I've turned it off, and I made some feeble attempt, but I didn't know how far to go, how deep to go, what age is
she ready or not ready- and I thought well that's a problem for me that I thought what about a black family. You think they have a problem,
their kids and figured out what's goin on here. So it's so convoluted and complicated. That Steve said earlier everything
sort of fades away? If we don't have that initial admission, that sorrowful recognition of what went on in the past and what has continued- and I don't know how many people are able to do it, but even if they were the most
most people in the world is for their benefit too, even if it's for the wrong reasons, Papua
You mention dumb Germany
I think it's a really important analogy, because obviously
what happened during the Holocaust is among the most horrific events of the world.
Three, if not the most horrific,
Germany is now the strongest country in Europe.
What seventy five years after the Holocaust, approximately one
can you share what you know,
Germans, reconciliation has a country
For the Holocaust in what what they did, how they approached, I think the most important thing they did, and this is obviously problem for us. This cannot be done and what they did could not be done without leadership right. It has to come from
people in positions of power imagery. You know we we we follow and must trust our leaders until they show us otherwise and its prey,
Obviously, we ve been shown otherwise in a lot of different situations, you're, so that trust that credit
but he isn't really there- that's a problem we have that they took on in the leadership, was dedicated, truthful, transparent, heartfelt and
the public, and I always want to believe that the majority the public is his had. They have good hearts. They want things to be done properly. There they're not prone to listen to the bad angels.
Do the good angels, but only if that leadership, it's in power and direct them appropriately, and that's where it started. After that there was a dog in recognition and oversight, educationally politically in this municipality after municipality, to follow through and make sure that education continued and that's a that's a big job,
I dont know at this point is well we're not up to us at this point here. We know that we were not after so that that's a problem at near the fact that they were able to make it
the first that the image like you said that the image of we need to do something about this and they work their way through that
Is there so much good that comes through that processing just to get to the point?
it isn't gonna be easy, but wouldn't I would think, the three of us what ought from what we know. Why didn't we
stand for. We need to see it somewhere in the educational system and process
with a real cleared lineage of bringing
through and taught
the school so that its just becomes
formal understanding and realisation of what have. Wouldn't I that's it
it is so obvious that out, I would jump on the table for that. I would think alike
people, wouldn't I am sure that allowed people they would find it and make it difficult and all that so sensible gay. I worry about that part of it, it's the ets
with an effort has to start to get this thing or nuts
the textbooks rounding up you re to conquer there isn't any, but there's plenty of stuff.
As we send out a message for what we're talking about today.
There's one really clear thought that we could wicked support. They lead. Let's, let's see if we can step
thing up educationally and make it up.
Annabelle so that our generation
kids coming up in a grandkids papa, no exact, we're talking about a grandkids right now. How do we
to them. How do we help them understand and that will be ranged from one did not eleven right now you nothin we're trying to help
understand how they're gonna take the next step and how they can understand the relations they have with the black kids that they grow up with their grown up with black? Isn't it within their dinner?
in their sleep overs in their best friends
can they handle what's coming down the pike and if we don't give him
because they're not gonna, be prepared for carrier coach
think. The good news is up
The younger generation behind us is more diverse, more tolerant.
More aware than any generation above them. I truly
Leave that, just speaking with
children who were all in
Friends hearing about what,
they are doing, and not,
in their little circle, but but reading
things nationwide you watch the they protests, the peaceful protests that are going on
and I know, there's been a
violence is well and looting and there's all kinds of stuff going on, but if you, if you
watch, let's just say a watch, a peaceful protest,
the diversity in those protests is dramatic and I
We believe the younger generation behind us has had enough of an end,
as they grow as they become the current generation. They're ready
ready for some change, but I think
this conversation and we ve touched on. It is your what can holder
guys like us too, to me that that's that's what this
comes down to is? Is everybody
in a position of power corporations,
entertainers athletes, coaches,
You caters. People in the limelight.
The more the merrier, but we,
true, we need the leaders of big corporations to act.
Stand up and say this has got to stop because they are the ones who can influence the government and if
If that influence happens, that that's how we can initiate some change, but the younger generation common behind us there there right,
for us to set the table that those are those are my beliefs anyway. He I guy
that's diva in there there is. We know we see that that interaction that that is existing that maybe didn't exist when we were grown up or whatever, where there is a much greater sense of relationship and understanding. And
I even more communal sense of of our kids with us
kids about the races and all in it. That's it's a beautiful thing, someone. How could it not happen for the positive? If we don't, we have to jump to the top of this
this latter here and get the people on the top and to open up the opportunities to to make the statements to make them
the declarations that that will allow for this change, because somewhere along the line on this, should have happened, it already should happen and it didn't, and so there is there.
There's issues here and their concerns and there's a there's efforts in some power to the with their messaging that comes out. It has maintained to this point. We're still find it are, but after it has done and in but that's ok, it's ok just
there's there's things working against us you're. So as we can,
generate energy in momentum in all that we have to. We can
people that are willing to move and then left that positive right off the top, and it s really crucial. Well, I think that the responsibility is Steve said for those who have said.
Sort of platform, whether you're an athlete or a coach,
and entertain her or a business model of all those people have to coalesce. They have to come together because a somewhat more difficult now in some ways, when I think back to Martin Luther King Jr, why cutting the buses will that that hurt people's pocketbooks in chains and change happen? Because of that? It's difficult in today's world
In this corporate world, to make people's pocketbooks hurt the way that it seems like a small example, but the world has changed dramatically. We just gave. I forget the figure, a hundred
one thousand five hundred and forty five ml billion, with a b dollars to real estate developers in this last package in one of the packages that we just did. These bailout deals. That's horrific! It's humiliating! It's ignorant and a lot of journalists and printed it and it's been out there, but nothing will be done just like after the two thousand and eight debacle financially tell me how many executives are in jail because of it. So it's if this isn't the depressing thing, but what it tells me is, if is that, were difficult, it's even a greater responsibility for people like ourselves to make sure that we
talk about it as much as we possibly can in this educational point that you bring up coach is, I think, it's fantastic, and I think it could be a very valuable way. You think about that sports teams that hockey team that basketball player football to whoever it is in that in that city, making a point about something like that
and putting their money where their mouth is engaging. Whatever corporate entities happened to be in a particular locality to talk the school board to talk about it,
Asian, because there's always gotta be pressure. Nothing, nothing! Nothing happens in the sixties. Nothing really changed until all the people in America saw the houses and the dogs on tv, and they saw the way black people were being
treated there. Now it became real the same with the Vietnam WAR. People have to feel the pain to some degree before their because, as we have often
said. We're way way way to comfortable, and unless we get people to be feeling more uncomfortable, it doesn't change
your Papa voice,
to learn the hard way, but sometimes we just have to learn the hard way for our greatest lessons to come through this look. What happened this week now look to the response this week. We
no, that this wish were trying to seize this opportunity, because we can feel it because of the pain that was so clearly
demonstrated Lycosa like I hate, learn the hard way, but sometimes it. That is the only way for the lessons to really drive home in Rwanda.
So we did. We got make it pay to make this time paper something really positive, both
in an responded. It feels
It feels like this is a tipping point. You know pop you mention that in in Vietnam and the other, the pictures of
of of the war, the pictures of the idea that the dogs in the fire roses, sir, it during the demonstrations in the sixties, what
different now compared to save Ferguson in two thousand fourteen after Michael Brown was
wine. Why now do you think? Does it have to do with it?
the virus. Is it exacerbated because people are work?
why do we not why? Why is it all of a sudden feeling like of this? Is it now or does right? I'm talk with a good number of people about that, because why not to killings ago or for
long ago. It is similar to the argument about guns. You know sandy hook, wouldn't be enough to see little kids
the old the way they were, but it wasn't enough in so it's it's always to me. It's always a matter of how to you might his coat said the hard way. How do you make people feel the pain
How do you do that? Well, it's gotta be pressure of some sort and usually it has been protests. Nothing. Nothing happens because people silent because people are quite
Lord's got to be reaction, and I honestly think that, as many have said with, the virus has a lot to do with. This
because you're holed up in your house you're already in a little bit of a semi depressed state, YO, probably your mood, probably a little different than usual. You lost a little bit of energy and your step, you become a little bit more introspective your baby, a little bit more involved in relationships, relationships with your family and with your friends
the phone. You take a little time to check your priorities, and in the middle of that we have a government and a president who has the way he has in. We would waste way too much time
I'm talking about every little thing that he has said or done, but even for people who, I think initially voted for him. I have to believe there's a certain number of them who are disgusted by the behavior and at least really tired of what would go on day after day after day and thought all at a coalescence is it it all comes together, and then the George Floyd murder was so in your face and the manner in which it was done. I think sick and even the most hardened, or I hope, sick and even some of the most ardent supporters, because that was that was a gut feeling that anybody with any kind of heart would have it was
was a primal feeling when there was an expressionless man doing us actually adjusting his knee and this man's neck as he left his hand in his pocket like he was really not a lot. I offered here I'm just doing what I need to do and I think it discussed in a lot of people, and thus you know the protest came out, as you both have said, with all kinds of different people, all kinds of different races,
which was hardly for sure. You don't. You know one of the things to that supported that. I think that the fear that
happened here was the idea that the lack of it just
Mediately stepped in stepping in and in that way,
that this is it's right before our eyes and you're gonna do what you're gonna delay? Why
for us in it took us time to get the guy's arrested and no all it still is. I think that response added to it,
Had the response been right at mediate in in us,
certainly I say no, but they should have jumped on a. I think the response to both from the populations would have been different,
to some extent anyway, and Andor does make anything right it off, but that was a great that's at
getting part of it- is what we didn't reactor in the white people that were, although
guys we're sitting right there. They could help out and they didn't whatever it. I don't know any other
the rules, while the same but that response
didn't didn't help us, and then we need a better response. We can't let we gotta know that that's what's gonna happen. Extend too. We need to respond better
because of what we're learning, what we ve. Now, how can we not learn these lessons pop after all this time? After all these years
Is this some eggs Andrew Point as a great when coaching just you know the Armada arbitrary that took what to three months
and we wouldn't even have known until a video came out. Steve just talked about Tulsa and nobody still
about that. Basically, in a hundred years later here you know
happen. It Wilmington Wilmington lines. A great book out now called the woman to lie same sort of a massacre, but nobody knows about it and that delay. I think approach makes a great point seated upon point. You make me like
well. What would like to call for the people there and positions who have influence in the could affect change, but other thought of
this to me, is it everybody?
as an enforced to some extent and we need
but absolutely on point. We need to get the people who can cause some shots force and make sure that they can help situations and in
Then the politics of stuff and all of that, but
everybody has in their own
the northern dimension around them an ability to effect
the right way to respond in the right out. Looking and
doing the right thing in saying the right. It's making the right stand as little as it may be if more people collectively
That's what we're seeing we look at the response you know in the protests. Put
The ordinary Adele
strange, that we need to see that there is some horrible parts of it but protests, as is often because people are
pressing their views in their visions enough in their willing to put themselves out. We need that to happen
on all levels as well as reaching to the highest levels and with whatever we can do to influence that would be, would be worth while I'm sure it's a great great point term.
Part of that is, is having those uncomfortable conversations with the
people who may not agree.
With you already. You know
You will have people in our circle who work in it.
Disagree with certain points on this that there
can't be any.
Agreement about what we just witnessed here when we were just witnessed murder- and
this was not murder number one is this has been happening for four hundred years, so you have it
these conversations have to be had at every level. You write peat and then I think
There are others, there's so much that everybody can do YO donating money or time to grass roots organization.
Organisations around the country
there's a million things you can do to help, but
figure right. I think it takes its a collective effort
I want to ask you this is this: is your pop mentioned generally peaceful protest?
isn't gonna get us very far, you and
I tell you you witness this. We all did for you
you go and when column Cabinet cited?
secondly, and in protest of police brutality
not only was he basically shouted,
another twenty people supported him, but here the the kind of
left without a job and in a lot of people.
Just sort of forgot about it
just moved on
how do you feel about
all that, and how do you reconcile that with the fact that you're you're very out
open and very passionate about the issues were too
rushing right now we are affected
Then there was a moment in time that a young man captured any day took a stand on something new fear. They took an ebay he stood up for, for he believed in and out
What what an extraordinary moment was that,
he was willing to take. I don't know that he had any idea what the impact would be as it as it turned out, but
What what a symbol of of courage and
vision, maybe even a as he was just learning it did to do what he did.
But it would happen from the processes it is it elevated unawareness from people that just took every
thing away from what the statement was all about in it just got turn it in Poland, in in ripped apart
and the whole mission of what he with a statement was it was such a beautiful. It's still there.
Payment we're making way today is it that they were not put out protecting our people
looking after one another were not making the right choices, we're not following the right process to bring people to justice when, when action,
taken in, and so
I think it was a big sacrifice in the sense that they know that
The young man makes but that's those are the key
just moments of some guys taken in Vienna. We owe a tremendous amount to him, the flavor
this is where pop you mentioned leadership before men and here are the key
of national leadership. We need
when, when captain, I took a need-
but you know the first thing that the two
Administration did was a staged. The walk out by vice president pants, where he flies to the game in any Annapolis,
and as soon as the national anthem starts cabinet,
stands up any walks out. He makes it
shove it and then ironically, radically pence that just this past week, tweeted we support peaceful protests, will know you, don't you, obviously, the euro in Trump at the
I'm called Capper Nick and all that players who were kneeling called them sons, a bitch
so get him out of there.
They all want to stand for their flag fire them.
I'll get him out of get him out of this country,
tromp yesterday. In his comments, says we support peaceful protest so hobby.
Sleep? We don't have the leadership to seek to support people like column, Capron Egg, from
the top in our government, but I also think we needed it from the Vienna
offices, to I think he needed he needed more support from Roger
down and from the League office, but
to me? You? U is it's really hard to look at what's going on right now with all the the the violence and the protests and not
back to four years ago and say look the sky was trying to peace.
Protest in nothing came of it. The killer
things changed and he was actually ridicule sidesa.
It's a real, tough London tend to think about leadership. You know encouraged go hand in hand.
We know we know. We don't have that when,
We have a leader whose main purpose in life is himself in. Anything that affects him is how he bases his
words and actions. Only words come out their somewhat inclusive
for him by others that he speaks as if he just took her. I hid her cast
oil and has to say it anyway, because he asked the mollify the idiotic things he said previously sold
Well, the vandals did what they did. He condemn that which
but would but, as you both of said, he also condemned the peaceful protest with calling cabinet.
So he will use whatever he can to advance his own purposes.
The crowd around him is as bad or worse
all the sick of run. They know who he is. These are the same people who said he was unfit the same people who said he was crazy, but now there are willing to
carry his water, so that leadership is is not there and you know the vandals. It were all wishing they hadn't done what they did. It's important that too,
done that, but the still understand it to understand the frustration, the anger, the hopelessness- and we were talking now about poverty, about injustice, about incarceration about profiling, about police brutality. All this boils up and you're gonna get some of that. It's it's gonna happen its inevitable its logical, but am not surprised by it at all. So somehow the culture has to change just like it did was drunk driving this culture. That's a disease in all of our cities. In its it's about policing, it's about policing. This is not an occupying force. You know the black and brown people in our society. Look at them is invading force, as they should for all the reasons that everybody's talked in written
about that. We have thanks with grenade launchers, in this sort of thing, it's some police departments, it's like the soviets going into hungry after time. When you look down the street now and you see the equipment white, why do we need that equipment? How is your good night going to be too confrontational sort of attitude? At least mental? You know these places and cultures in all these cities have to change. An Obama tried to do that. He had a great program that was being implemented across the country, about policing about training about
all that sort of thing about the qualified immunity they have about the union's and how ridiculous it is it you. You can hardly prosecute somebody as we have seen, but what happened when the Trump Administration came in, they threw that game played in toys
just like the pandemic game plan, and we know all the reasons. Why don't you to go into that, but that leadership that courage that President Obama showed to try and help fix that has been thrown in the toilet. We have to start from the beginning and, as I think you said, the beginning stay. Maybe this is a tipping point. Maybe that kind of pressure can be put on with people who have any kind of a voice at all, and is true said even from the grass roots, everybody. It's not just the people who can be seen, but if we all do it and demanded that
wasting situation can at least not be done behind closed doors, all those contracts for done. As far as I know, with mayors and police departments behind closed doors, but they're not voted on people. Dont know about those things that our stuck with what we have in all these situations are. They can hardly
the prosecutor you sent some comes a mind me Steve, is about past I've heard about that
leadership in Owen in being
The position is that when we have learned that leadership is about the other people it's about,
holding ourselves accountable to help those around us, be with
can possibly be, and without that connection,
there is no leadership if you
If you dont have the connection to the people that you are serving
that you're gonna listen to them.
And feel them and in and do what you can to help them be the best they can be an end in.
And hold yourself accountable for what happens in so that you can
working to figure it out and dislike we'll use
personal Barnaby. He came up with a beautiful planet and they just got dumped on well that's
at the follow through that leaders should be standing for. We have to wait to see the good stuff. I gotta figure it out and we get a poem
to whom get it will allow ourselves to be held accountable for the decision that we make in and in so many
basic fundamentals of what it takes to be in charge of stuff. Is it for all
the people that may be listening to us, no better.
Positions you gotta, take those tough, tough stance. You gotta be you gotta stand up for it
instead of what you know is right and be willing to take them
and in all it because it's the right thing to do and then good things
because you're doing things for the right reasons you know and and you can make it through the heart and then you can rebound from
from the setbacks in the problems. But it comes
the principle of a just serve and others in.
When a good job at an end.
Let yourself be scrutinised, because we are in line with that and have caused it
second up and do it. You know, and so now,
great pointed out, and I think we're in an era now were were athletes arm
a really more likely to speak out to make
Then we ve, seen probably since the civil rights her you jail in Brown, drove fifteen miles or fifteen hours from Boston down to Atlanta to join
protests the other day other
the coalition made up of some of the former NFL players
on bold and to Mario Davis. I know Malcolm Jenkins is very worrying,
of work done doing a ton of great work.
Here in enough on the front lines in in our inner cities, trying to help with these very issues it that you guys you're talking about a pop. Do you feel is it? Is it any different now?
Coaching then say
twenty years ago and we are living in maybe before nine eleven when we were living in a much more sort of benign era. I think that people are people, your people that have a different perspective, the play
so we coach now. I think they become a little bit more worldly sooner than in the past, because so much has gone on. Our country has seen so much in the internet, the social media you're so they're so well connected oftentimes. My players tell me what the hell's going on in the world.
I go check it out because that's the world we have in the past. Everything was a little bit more insular. You just had your group, your family, your team, your coaching staff, but if it wasn't to intervene
acted. The weight is now can like the globalization we have in the in the world with so to have that clear, so they're they're they're pretty knowledgeable as to what's going on and, as you said, I think there are less prone
to just accept things. The way they are in all the players are you just mentioned, and the coalition and other players in in all the whigs, I think, are wrong.
Ready, willing and able to help out and try to make a stop to all craziness that we see and truly it's a really focus on helping those those places, those people that have less than the rest of us much more committed. I believe, and, as you said, much more ready to speak out
But it's gotta stay persistent or we're just gonna fade away. Did you feel you feel that term that
responsibility to help nurture that that's all
activism, from your players or is that deserves something that just comes naturally and in and you let him go,
No, I do. I want our guys to to feel comfortable think for themselves and feel comfortable with their thoughts,
feel comfortable about expressing their thoughts?
environments. We work to create a kind of
culture that allows for that to happen in hopes that they will find it.
Voice in, are willing to to step out and do stuff. I guess I'm really active in the community. The meetings that we just had on Monday were really really want interesting.
Talked a lot of voting. They talked a lot about
making in making their voice heard and an end
Coaches admitted that you know they had voted in years past, but they're gonna go like never before
fires were sent to save him and then we're gonna
Should we help the people around us understand hump, whereas this one me think about that mentality that our geyser,
so much better informed and so much smarter than they used to be because they have so much information and
to them in their like pop, said over their way out of this man made off with a lot of times and we have to be
and learn from them as well? But I think it there's the in my
situation, I'm really promoting our guys took to branch out to reach out and I'm not afraid of and speak out. I I don't know I like them too.
A real man. You know I'm okay, we will miss. You know we got a lot of guys have been pretty vocal over the years and then I got no problem with that at all. It. Just got
willing to come on back to the table?
come on back to the city of culture.
Weather in in in in in live with us, but I think it's really important that I don't know how somebody could be at their best in this. We keep pushing on that way.
We got keep pushing them to find themselves in Spain, a voice, that's a culture, yelp coaches created that culture and that allows people to feel comfortable
and to be transparent to share ideas, as you well know.
Leave the latter? We try to do with our teams over these last couple of decades. In it, it makes for not just a happier family but a family. The field,
possible to each other or are they enjoy being with each other they're proud to be there, and if we can help that with a that means, you know having guests come in or
certain books that are provided there were discussions like out. You haven't with his teams out it's it's our duty to do that. We have that responsibility to keep that sort of a culture alive and the more those cultures exist. The better off we're
be to me, it's become more apparent the how important it is to promote teammates and team
and more than ever- and it's always been a team game for us and our sports we play, but more than ever the aware
of our guys to be great. Teammates is more viable to me and, more importantly, than it ever has been in my coaching. Ed
what that means is that you're, if you're great, he met in your concern for the others, and in that way-
Russell was in our main room, just like you say, puppy element of copyright back,
out of nowhere. He said you know, you know what it takes to be a great limit,
gotta get up every morning. Thinking about how you can help when you're too may be better a holy
browsing vigour that awareness that you would have that awareness, youth you wake up in the morning. Thinking about you point
You know you wake up and more thinking about my wife receiver. What can I do to help that? I regret that kind of mentality,
doesn't have to only be on our teams. Why could now
mentality, be what it feels like to be an american that I am part of a team. I m.
Part of the city, and what can I do to help the people? Romeo Kennedy said a long time ago. You know why
that not be as important as ever as opposed to look out for what I got protect your own look out, you know save me, you know I just take it
If such a it's a clear thought it in it, take
direction and leadership in and then- and I know this to be said- that it is an environment of of you feel good about me
there you feel comfortable unity are a little bit happier. Could you know you doing good work? You know, you know your help.
People and that's that is so fond of
my dog, its powerful, it's important to night. I don't feel it
enough in all around us? I wish we could
feel that more, I wish we could promote more wherever we go.
As a great points, re point some I want
Abbott absences? Asea coach
podcast, you guys are both
touching on culture, and in my
Having played for you pop for
years and Peter.
Having learned so much from you and having visited your training camps, the key to both of you
respective success his culture one on.
Bullshit it's the feeling
in the locker room in the gym every single day. It's now
the axes and owes its it's. Obviously, you gotta have talent, you guys are both had plenty a talent, but it's just
the vibe in the working environment and that whatever that is that you feel every day,
So I want to ask you pop
When did you figure that out in your coat
for how long did it take from a
coach, just starting out too
now at what point? Did you figure out that that's what it's all about? I can't wait
This is a health hazard. Great question: have you make me think back to the days when I was a quota, the Rapporteur Academy, prep school,
working for Hake Eaten, and I was a wild man. The most important things to me were people being the best shape. They could be just kill, em out of the court,
maybe a little, show I'm tough for whatever that might be, and in may we do the drills.
Their tongues were hanging out and we repeat them and repeat him. They had to be perfectly had actually get those things absolutely perfect. Then practice was over see later ass. Time went on. You start to real
eyes that that's really a shallow way to live. There's not a whole lot of satisfaction in that, and I would say that probably when I came to golden state with knowing is probably the first time I watched him coach his talk to each player like he was their son. He was happy form or he was disappointed in one of the two and he'd say it either way. You know said their effort, stunk or their effort was great. He tell us in no uncertain terms
and then he put his arm around many laugh with, and they would needle each other. You know that sort of thing, so they probably have a beer together at some point, all absolutely absolutely, maybe even during practice,
you know, it's just its maturation progress process. You you go from not taken, you know it all, but probably be scared to death it. You gonna miss something and you go back and it was a different culture. It was all about condition.
You're gonna get other, though you don't need water philosophy. Is there anything else? You will take us a softer what you're getting at
get a move on, and then you realize how much more meaningful, if you actually know about that player
or you can laugh with him or you can get on him.
He knows you're going to put it in drive around back to the practice, and then he just going to say this guy's crazy. But I know you are. I know you cherish and then the status
we started to grow, and then you realise that the Holy GRAIL, those relationships noted
PETE. I know I think I know your answer, but why?
what's same question. When did when did you figure out that dynamic of culture being the most important thing?
You know, I don't know, there's a specific time. I got in trouble so much early. My cochin from four listen
and talking to the players and want to know what's going on with them in
and I never did fear that really
shipping folder coaches, more classic coaches with it. So you can't listen. You play
You can't talk to him. You know you, you have to make all the shots which
I felt like I was, but I did it
Waverly in my coach, and I was I was there in that, and I kind of been in and out of trouble when coaching a lot of years. You know people
relate, nor think it we're having too much fun or thinking we're doing this. Are we doing that? But I do think that
when I got ready going into you, see I've been fired enough times and
I just there was just a moment in there that there was an
give me that I needed to get it is much is true to my heart as possible in my house,
was about competing in my heart was but having fun and our
figure out how to connect all that you know an end. So am I
always cared about in a pop. You just said
but love in the guys up and cared for so much even citizens, sometimes it each year
your son, that's. Why
get em allocate these guys like this now kid. What would I do? How would I kick him in there
If he wasn't doing right it. I'd heard them up.
They go to hug him up and in committee, has you know whatever it takes to get him to be all that they now could. Possibly.
In an that's kind of
by the way, and also with that comes comes style theirs.
I'll tell you, you knew you
Niger Building and now you organized expectations and that to me is really really ultimately comes back to carrying.
In all, I think. That's I heard it in put to you
you sullen and now that it's you care,
you can tell him anything I'll, tell him, but you do it because you care so much. They need to hear you need to get it out and then and then
in India. You won't come through the hardships of what that those, let messages in those lessons are
and sometimes they get cut, and sometimes you bring him back and sometimes you Benjamin sometimes you play you know all of those things that we go through when it comes from a from a place of
daring and loving him, then yeah yeah, you can make it through almost anything, and I think it's where the best stuff up
that is where the real magic occurs as its.
Makes it so much funding to be a coach in doing what we do. No doubt
No doubt! Well, I guess I got a share my if any moment fire I was blessed to play for,
several hall of fame coaches, so I felt it
I was in college plain for ludicrous and I felt that culture I couldn't
finally I was eighteen nineteen years old. I don't know what the hell I was, sir. I was
feeling other than this was really special. I feel
by the time I played I got to Chicago, and I played fulfil Jackson
when my mind sort of made. These connections like I get it like this culture here is so powerful because Phil CARE.
About us, and because there is a genuine authenticity too,
he's doing and to go straight from.
Chicago to San Antonio and feel
The same authenticity and in the same genuine caring about me about my family,
you're coming from pop and
by way film
allude Orson, couldn't be any more different from one another as our great they were all, but they are all authentic to themselves and they all had this, this beautiful culture that they had built. So I I
walked into my first coaching job, knowing the vast
I wanted to achieve and and PETE I don't wanna embarrassed
but you're the one who verbal
install that for me, when I went up and visited, you
in the Sea ox training cap before Camp started youth. You
help me figure out little,
a verbal rising. What what I
is experiencing when I was feeling that the strength of those cultures and
after I visited you I'd, I literally put everything down on paper
and sort of thought through everything you have tried, did
design, my practice plan, so that you know this
authenticity code could come through and that the players woods feel that certain vibe and I took everything I do. I took from pop, fill in and loot and
have been able to to to do it in my own voice and make an authentic to me but term. Through the
experience of other guys. I've played for some
I'm a very, very lucky coach. I had a greater greater
set of mentors, and you too or are each year
largely responsible for that? So thank you. Did you participate in any defensive
the first shooting out. Let me give you shooting at getting credit for that item and anger about it. I just waited till TIM, don't gonna David Robinson block the shot after I got the creation and worked out via still do you not Papa idea votes as God, it's still come after me.
Thank you so much. This was really really fantastic and and
doing what you guys, you're doing it so important for people to hear your voices in here your thoughts and and
I just can't. Thank you enough firm.
For everything you're you're doing in society and for a for all your words today. So thanks guys, that ought to be
thanks so much. The zip are thanks to Deray Mckesson and thanks to steeper Pierre and great and Gregg back on Thursday, the on Thursday see them either.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-04.