« The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka! Plus: The Bucks and Big Tech Craziness With Ben Thompson. Plus: Three Decades of Counting Crows With Adam Duritz.


The Ringer’s Bill Simmons shares his thoughts on another stellar Luka Doncic performance in the Mavericks' Game 2 win over the Clippers, putting the Mavericks up 2-0 on the series (2:45). Then Bill talks to business and tech analyst and Milwaukee Bucks fan Ben Thompson about the Bucks' Round 1 series vs. the Heat, the Bucks' 34-point victory in Game 2, the hypothetical Round 2 matchup vs. the Nets, and more (16:00). Next they discuss AT&T’s announcement to merge Warner Media and Discovery, streaming giants, Epic Games vs. Apple, and more (42:00). Finally, Bill talks with singer, songwriter, and Counting Crows frontman Adam Duritz about the origin of the band, their iconic first album ‘August and Everything After’, behind the scenes stories about some of their most beloved songs, adjusting to a meteoric rise in the early 1990s, maintaining artistic integrity over three decades, Counting Crows' new album, ‘Butter Miracle, Suite One’, and more (1:09:00).

Host: Bill Simmons

Guest: Adam Duritz, Ben Thompson

Producer: Kyle Crichton

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
President everybody arms anti stands behind the New York New York with J J First POD cast on the rigour and spot of five dedicated to you than EU exports. Back, we ve got episode three nights a week was bonus. Episodes whenever news breaks so make sure you file the show on spot. unfeigned, o sports buggy have more than one shot. This thing for the fences Emma be season, vandal, letting you place. Your first bet risk free, new users get up to one thousand hours back and sacred You first bet does when analogous better from their there's recent vandals. Sports book is America's number one but getting authorize. Gaming operators Emma be simple, app, safe, secure, great eyes and all kinds of Betty market, saint game. Parlay alternate lines and prompt game, perhaps always on promotions. When you went in pay your winnings in his little is twenty four hours just download the phantom sports, but gap sat up with promo code ass to get in on the action vandals ports, but from a could be ass, must be twenty one plus
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by the radical, as was the Ringer podcast Network, where we put up a new watch was on Monday night. We dead, the rock may mean a crimes. Chris ran thousand fun when asked about them. The sports cards nonsense podcast too, make fun of making Jesse. We talked and be a player, hey, guys, possibly and arm and wide receivers, and then I laughed but not get in ten digs Jesse anyway, a one more package for you find coach season, two Peter Schwaiger shy Mcveigh and they have another coach on this week. I think they might even have to coaches, but that's a good one check it out, and the fine coach feeder arena Falco coming up on this pact has been Thompson is contact, but his beloved bucks and a lot of big companies stuff apple. Eighteen t he's gonna regarded down for us and then something I've been trying to get this package for ever when my favorite
as Adam Birds from Canada. Crows he's gonna talk about. His whole career. How he read songs you tell some cool stories and my daughters, furthermore, impressed lived it that that's how come at first, another great artist project I type in this part of the package- is ten. Fourteen p M specific time I held on posting Spock ass. We finished it a few hours ago, but just in case something wacky happening with the two other games lay that, of course they do the Lakers ended up winning the beat the sons. it looked aura Harry there for a second. There are playing a lot of mark a sob IDA with Chris Paul. You know
barely able to do anything that one felt like that can be the Lakers that shocker was mavericks. Clippers Hawaii comes out, puts up thirty in the first half he, Within the all time, there's no fucking way we're losing this games on his fires. Every pay one of the best. Thirty to thirty five. Where's ever, and he was just like we're, not least that game Lucas. I call wool we're not lose in this game either. Luca dodges is twenty two years old, I think firmer hoops IQ, combined with thumb presents, talent, slash just ability to dissect the other team he's the most advanced I've ever seen, we knew this heading into the placid. This is probably true what he's done to the clippers in these two games from a basketball intelligent standpoint?
is simply staggering. He broke the clippers playing tonight. The clippers Kawhi was four thousand four hundred and twenty one. Four hundred and forty one points Paul George's, twelve, four hundred and twenty for twenty eight point, so their best to prayers lit up. They shot almost fifty four percent for the game and they lost in the game. basically over with a minute left, LUCA, put up three thousand nine hundred and sixty four two hundred and ninety seven turnovers, seven rebounds 7ss controlled everything they through everything they had at him and he just solved it over and over and over again- and you know it's hard not to bear and celebration because I remember when the brain had this point with Miami second and third year, where he just kind of figured it out. He became the queen of the chessboard here, he sobbed get an answer for basically ray single than the others. He was gonna, throw up he just as you put it into his crazy basketball, computer brain and then combined with his physical gives. That's when his career went to all their level, and he was our
great. To begin with the LUCA thing, the fact that he's doing this at the age. Is that with the lack of rhapsody, as dismisses eighth plan, came over, their team had come Ipod George Nick the to the fore Patrick Beverly atom TAT man was on him a little bit a battered and he's just he's looking at them like he's pay many of the land scrimmage it out in the mid two thousands gone out there doing this or that safety came up. Oh, I ate Reggie waned instead of doing the cross to do in our good go towards us. he's just I setting it in the moment in the coopers did know what to do. You think about the game winning three that they got it's basically a wide open, sharp, because LUCA has said that the coopers to the point that you know they're they're coming. there's a sweater doubly they theirs is completely this kebab related I was unbelievable and ah,
No, it wasn't even like look. It wasn't like she had an EU, Japan Classic. Fourth quarrymen couple mistakes, miss couple shots exact, tappitt He had done so much damage that point. He had some were enemies. He got He got nine for fourteen from heart away. Twenty eight points he made six. Is posing as even played pure every twelve what's happening with them. three things they know they are. They have a guys that they play each guy knows what their role as even somebody like pausing s who resell it. I talked about a color shady look on his face the season, even he bought in at that the happiest and most gregarious we ve seen posing as an imams uniform in two years new there. A game when you, I was somebody who's as great as look is. You know at some point you don't wanna too easy there, you just kind of sit around waiting for that gotta, carry you over and over again or is sent by
most says you become better he's making better. You also have this confidence because you're on the theme of the saw some guy, we see this happen school. We see happening cowards and sometimes rarely, but sometimes it happens in the press. Now. The question is why, Was that also happening with the clippers with quiet zone that he was in an you saw tonight, just as a team It does not know where they are. They really down there. Their foreign shit against the wall, the bitter and Terence Man who we were calling to play on Sunday didn't play in the first half another deployed. As when the first three halves of the series in the fourth quarter at sea, it seemed that he played the last fifteen years, The game this have em out their Reggie Jackson, place. Thirty minutes Morris Place twenty five zoo batch trying to Beverly three Randal nineteen, but to maintain they have. data the best five Gaza. A throne shit against a while when, with the result, is basically.
What happened, and I were lettered and george- had to really get off at the games. And they don't really know what they're gonna get from everywhere else from everyone. Us in a team this is Unbelievable unbelievable sub plot with them where when one plasters last year this year they take the last couple gay so they could play Dallas and get out of the Lakers division and meanwhile they willingly to go against LUCA who's. The best twenty two year old basketball player. About time he is I was going to say it again yeah, maybe magic, add that have to think about the sorry amateur recant He's in the running for best twenty two zero basketful, wherever certainly the most accomplished- certainly the most statistically accomplished, and Coopers were like that's the guy. We want well. That was really dumb and I don't know if I mean the coopers tortured. History have recounted
and broke down many many times on page too. In the day I grant land. This is, a team that, from the moment, they love Buffalo in eighteen. Seventy six, I wrote a calm of actually does now. I've got the curse of the sacred Buffalo since they laugh Buffalo and seventy six has been. disaster after another, and it seems They had finally saw that on cohesion, They get quite they trade, all these pigs for Paul, George, and if they come out of this with one play off. Series went in two years for all. They gave up those guys and now co wise of free agent and in its pretty clear if they lose this Dallas says you can't come back with quiet apologize. I will either have to trade. Pa George baby quite leaves whatever, but we talked about panic button themes Sunday result, and I both said it has to be the clippers they have to be by far far away the devil.
Panic button then and now you're looking at this gone well, we all go back to Dallas. We have to win least one game in Dallas at least, we have to win game three or game for there's gonna be at least fifteen thousand fans there there is a LUCA mania that has gone to another level. Those guys have him wade in front of a crowd like that. Really, since Luke has been good, if you think about last either in the bubble, so has never had a signature. Play a game in front of his whole fads. I think this is done. I normally add on I don't wanna pack it in this early on teams, but. I don't see a road map for the clips unless everybody in Dallas, just when ice cold from next five games. I don't see it she LUCA losing for the next five, which is how this would have to pay out
unbelievable turn of events. I hate using words like unbelievable insane cause, I think, like especially with twitter. We were basically using the same twenty words thou over and over again. this is pretty humbly virus. Zack low tax to me before the pathways tax back and forth about a words are what do you do for prospects and he said he was toying with the idea of taking the maps and I was like wow, that's the ambitious I just couldn't do it causes the posing as peace. I did nothing poison gas were at a level where it just seemed like it was LUCA by himself for the bunch Roper's. It just then seem like enough as much as I did not like this could pursue him, but I really wish I had picked them, knives insects. Maybe it might not even be mass in six, so we as have the one complete mercury edge in the first round, where d combination didn't see that coming or I can't believe what a bloodbath that was.
Maybe it's the series it might. look as Lukas that get any view start. I said this, on Sunday night said again, once what is truly great when their transcend it, which I think we can all agree LUCA has a chance to get there. If he's not eighty four, that there already, the NBA usually happens for them. sooner than you think sooner than you expect that's the way it goes magic once a title as a rookie and put up the legendary game six and fifty two in the final vote, be bird one in a secondary is a little bit. All is twenty four twenty five at that point Bill Russell when a title on his first year, the Brown got to the final two thousand seven. I think when he was twenty, two I'm an out and out with the great with a truly great players. It happen for them sooner than you think in an were always surprised, but we shouldn't be, I think, Lucas,
I actually think he as a lever to go in this area. I think he could go up. One nature is five for thirteen for three days Two hundred and forty seven from the line makes one more free throws got a forty point game, but if I'm the clips, you know first of all the Tyloo coaching I just I was abominable backup way. Six minutes, I don't get that. I don't. How they use torrents man in this year's. If I'm going down, I'm going down with Paul George and away with ready Jackson, who's the only guard, the Abu doesn't seem afraid to shoot. Terence man and tat. I dont want more sat there. Kazanovitch Us Mars, Minister Parlor Brahma, I guess baby but too, but it's out I'd better as so down LUCA. I I don't know what they do. So this is a roster problem which dates back, the last summer when they had all these rights, they had no picks up the trade they had to pay sixty four million Morris. They had to make this.
In our trade, where they got rid of sham it, who I thought, had trade value and now our doesn't play Morris's overpaid in that kind of stuck with this roster and don't really have allowed options here so day there have. Pray that the mass so called or their headed toward a pretty bonkers. I say that this is a team that thought they could challenge the Lakers Valet the team that is currently breaking ground, employed sooner new basketball Rayner change their uniforms. Thank you, gotta tell with the legendary layers and their down there and on top of this, the worst thing of all of it is they asked, This day asked for LUCA Dodge they asked for this. Tat, thou with somebody who, as suggested by the single best, buy regeneration so congrats classic clippers. You did it again every time. Every time he thought the keepers
couldn't hit rock bottom in iraqi away, they find another reactors. Lemme Get said, so they go awry. Bring and bent hops right now. Aside, for that would allow little tangent I back the talk about the subjects if you verses pack ass, the last three months. None of this is- prize. Of course, I really had swept by the nets and I That's the way it all seasons gonna play out, but anyway I here comes bedtime. hey, fantail sports book, has a fine. Sorry for that. You don't want to miss during the NBA finals, new users get thirty one odds and ends of the bucks of the sun's to win their next game. You can win one hundred and fifty dollars on a five dollars bet. I would recommend the bucks at home walking Milwaukee game. Three. Maybe do that one well the sports because more ways to win their the NBA finals than ever. When you went getting your monies lab yoga peninsulas. Twenty four hours, Sonaput promo code, be estimate. The NBA Finals
thirty one odds exclusively on the fender sports, but gap between plus present in Colorado, Highway, Illinois, India and Emission New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee Virginia or West Virginia must wage aren't as needed aftermarket tender first Buzz required hundred fits Dar MAX Bonus, see full terms at sports book that vandals, come, Gimme prom car when an hundred five to forty seven hundred Colorado it under If I were you, don't you down with in Indiana eight hundred to seven o seven one went seven for confidential Michigan it Cameron, Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Virginia Tennessee. Redline is eight hundred eight hundred and eighty nine nine thousand seven hundred and eighty nine or visit one thousand eight hundred gambler net in West Virginia I've been Thomson is here. You know from this protectorate, blog huge bucks fan, and so the way we do this package were taken this right. Now, it's four o clock. civic time at seven in the morning where you are you're you're in the Far EAST. If this is the first basketball talk, we ve heard today than that means we
put the podcast up and nothing will happen with the two Ella Games. I am assuming that the Lakers and clippers will win if you, hear me at the top of this package. That means at ten o clock tonight I told Kyle shit. I got to do ten minutes of top, so we're going to send until one thousand eight hundred and thirty one the big story of these plastifar, your bucks put some hair on their chests straighten it out, kicking some ass. I'm a believer. I can say it does feel a little bit like a trap. I did the last time that we had this of Game to dominate, win ways against Toronto, and I presume The by like multiple plane tickets doesn't go like all of as many the final games as I could and I thought that was it probably says something about my demeanor bucks found that I did make sure to by all refundable ones. You have told us good idea, but I need I why you David of wine, and you know that your last year I was not optimistic and
This year have been bought, pretty optimistic, and I'm not to surprise. I thought your last August with with rain, was spot on where the game one, which is all about a mental and they were clearly the better team it is with clear going in in that game. They may be all five of thirty one threes whatever, but if they have lost you, you definitely had to reacting. Portugal, with the honest that they they just like, I did. It was our freezing up, and that didn't happen, and it certainly felt like the floodgates opening aim to others. Who also happens, you don't gave three, but they didn't shoot them crazy. Well, they shot forty percent of three like it wasn't like they were shooting like eighty percent or something like that. It was just a so article fears cross with what we will see Alex yeah we set on Sunday night. It was the rare game, one must win and it was only a must win a game. I just because the way the game, for they were at sea my day my blow at and that's when the history comes,
and in the baggage and all that stuff they fought through it. I'm with you, I don't even feel I gave even played that great yet, which is where, sake, as they beat the shit out of my aim yesterday, but it wasn't like You do. I still feel I have a higher level together, clearly better the Miami. My aim is that the same team as they were like stared, especially at the swing spots and then the holiday. and a hundred trade go through go. Do you, thing for the audience about the hidden benefit of how great that pigeon, Tucker Trade was for you will the bucks, how our view of the history of doing this, where they may truly atrocious moves and then, like six months later, poor rabbit the hat and get out of it like rubber. They signed out of war. The Plumy brothers out get confused which, when it was ah the sight of like a forty year. Fifty million contract is about above on Michael Jordan, the Hornets dead, I They did a similar thing with this without delay. Augustine they sign him to this truly actual.
drought, three years, twenty one million dollars and Not only was the guy already not useful to play off small guard. You dogs, don't do well, but he's completely washed and now they have this sort of sitting on their books, and that's was further move when they lost Bogdanov its and by the way I'll go to the book bucks up with pedometers. Now, oh my god, Hence it is frustrating, but but you don't ask me harder that began as has declined, the steepest mountain is the way that it goes, but they dump Augustine and they give up a first round pictish here, but they move back to the topic of the second round likely they only move a couple spot. It wasn't that bad at all and oh by the way, the GPA Tucker, who you are very kind and is washstand does not look washed it all. You do. He looks great Yemen. The thing is you almost do that deal even if Pga Tuckers Wash o absolutely without question, you got more gave up what five six spots in the draft max and you got rid of. Contract that people are giving first rounders away to get rid of even
seven nine year for three years thing- was a terrible contract. It's the biggest mistake this Big bags over and over again is just overpaying bench poison, guys who can't make a difference? That's not like Seven, though, is that like crazy, it's not like paying somebody twenty million a year, his D J Augustine, but the bottom line as they have Jeff Teague, whose basically the same whose also equally wash they teach Augustine has and your name my box, he's way by the deity Augustine, there's gotta watch, but either that really matters here is the drew holiday, but at a different, because it's a two part addition- and this is the part that was so underrated when it happened, was one a holiday is a good point, he's much better than I realized. I mean Obviously, a really here, like a nice guy, you know he was good. No, I knew he was good, but maybe you watching him just like take the soul of whatever
personal guarding every night is really just incredible experience and the other thing is, I mean He's just a boy you when it comes going the basket. I mean that the pressure to have a second guy that just puts intense pressure on the rim like that addition, the honest is rural, effective but he's only the second best player in the deal. The other part of the deal was the opposing team for the box. No wonder has airport on their side and it turns out that makes us an absolutely massive difference. Having put about all people are building a wall guns janius. Well, when the was foreign sex, it's a pretty difficult while the scale- and I think that that is- cannot be overstated. What a huge difference that makes it mean Eric Whatso would be ok the river season in the play off just an absolute disaster. He get the ball, not know what to do with it. He ever even scorn, Ike nine points, her authoress. Sixteen point: thirty average nine pointing in Miami last year,
holidays already been incredible. It's just such a massive upgrade yeah Bledsoe could not be trusted at all I think everybody officially wrote him off lashers by ass. I started to write em off two years ago. Cosette thought it really hurt them, but last year became official like this. Guy cannot be one of the best by players on the title team yeah yeah. I do really do the blueprint they just they stopped guarding him after game too and ages. Whoever's whats, always gonna, sing the paint, and then this all in and when are you a double yon us and its? It's not. You can't run often set way people think about that. They will think back this year. likewise boring their brick Lopez and all tat sort of stuff. The problem in that series was the same problem last year, which was offence and the problem on often started and ended with having black hole who the other and bother guarding, and that was our blood, so yeah no. So New Orleans adds up getting stuck with him in the trade they get had ordeal, Weber, Adams, where the pact to get atoms
and then they get a whole bunch of pigs dead. You know We note a yacht sustaining unless he has some sort of century. God forbid those Pixar kinda matter, because when you have a guy whose top five every year you're just not going to be in the lottery ever so I the thing with how they loved you could see it all year, it's the little stuff right! It's like the way he made. Near the end there, the game with a thirty five where its loose bar she gets it cause he's an unbelievable athlete. He's got two guys chased them. He still gets the where boffin he does so many things that go beyond the stats matters, like a cliche, but on top of it he does the stuff you can see where he can actually initiate offered, say these three guys who can initiate offsets are really high level side. I think that trades been a massive massive success for them. It's it's turned out about as well as you couldn't that you gave up nothing. You you you're, worried about.
As somebody who is it tat. Twenty five guy in the league, Absolute absolute IBM. I do I put myself in the back. I was a critic, I hinted yet. Bledsoe trade were to happen as a critical so I am happy to throw it in the pile of bucks. Moves to part moves where the first one is an abject disaster, Second, one pose a rabbit from the hat. And it is in its its absolute a case that you know even he fits in so nicely with Middleton, specifically in that they have very complimentary sort of strength and we This is an Middleton if you're running our pickin role with holiday in yonder on one side and Milton The weeks I mean, that's that's extremely difficult to handle, and this is the thing where our age old, I told you of a few months ago. I pretty optimistic about about the Brooklyn Series just because they I think we can do more to slow them. Then they can.
You too slow us, and I mean obviously I have got a beer goggles on right now, but it all We have been consistent on this point too. I what was he will see what happens, but it's pretty exciting and you are generally myself, I'm so nervous right objects, ignites up! Well, that's the thing this is they're gonna, be where we laid the blueprint for other goods that that's about that in the or this will be a seminal moment. Where are the bugs fans? Blame you why? God Simmonds Pike ass it all went the how and that happen, and we we ve talked about this another time, but we could do it again, like the bucks fan base, secretly a bunch of lunatics, I of the big enough credit. It's a lunatic air base- you guys are nuts yeah, hi I'm petrified. Everyone does not avoid right. I've to reconsider, fit the honest piece of this so
they make outage. I dare not. Disdain are hoping his thing. All signs pointed to seem pretty positive. You don't know, Sure, and then he sides, you'd sire relief, fail in a deep says, is ever saw playing at the worst case scenarios. Was there just an abyss, as you thought, of of the pigs going in this drew out a trade and then yeah, leaving and being the mavericks in seven months like you had to have been thinking about that. The deep recesses absolutely. I think I think that you know the problem. Is he always end up making tweets that you regret, and no one does that better than I do, but I did posts between about this being the darkest boast awful pussy alleyways that same day, where they signed, Augustine and Bobby Portas area, just screwed up the pat causing on contracts we went from having we're d always over page with three or deal worries drastically overpaid and was the worst off these
the history, the NBA, something like those ideas, a botched twitter lunatics do not contain gimme grief for that buddy I was, I mean it was dark. It was definitely looking over the edge in a very serious way, where you're looking at the possibility ok, one last run and then basically oblivion as a franchise for the next. like. That was really what we sort of on the verge of happening and ITALY every now and then yes resided, that's that's the yacht. That's gonna, see just he's, tease everything and I do worry that Euro he does it. I'll just hope is, rear, isn't wasted? No Aki? I thought you know. I hope this is the year. Just were just to get that monkey off the backward being credible and what a story would be. I mean not just recently, the small market, but but I mean the got with the books are facing this year- is- is a pretty insane and you think about it and Anne, but that
filled. I gave a yacht as ever does when a title that's out has to be asked to be maximum difficulty. Why you're just running straight through the wall? You not dodging teams. doing anything and from a sort of narrative sense of in watching the honest, his entire career. It feels like this is how it has to go so again. I think to myself again well take about that to compare you guys to the Red Saxon Cubs cause. You have won in the last fifty years granted. It was fifty years ago, the Red Sox banded as difficult as possible. They the cubs they made it not only stiff goes possible that she blew the game in the night there ain't than there is a rain delay in their ride. Back wind, like usually when you get in this kind of monkey off your back, it never goes easily theirs. perhaps a bruises everywhere? And, as you said, you ve got that come up, I'm gonna get ahead of the Miami series. I do think you're really good shape. I'd be shocked. If Miami came back, just don't thing from a town standpoint there, the same team but assuming goodbye,
and you play overwhelmingly if they don't than by the gun? So well, sir, I don't look, it's gonna, be by pathetic ethics, who does holiday garden. That series in your mind, would you put him on hardener? Would you put among on so I await with the caviar that I am very much just a fan. I'd item on that, and you know I would on harden and basically Derek? I read to beat you and You know, I think a combination of Yonder Middleton Tucker can at least your bothered rent a little bit dress like an average to revive a game by the goddess. Can ever fifty it buddy it's kind of gonna come down to can try make up the difference and it all frankly, as someone face carrying the boy asked that some you dont like. I want really feeling like the man. I want to like a way this is on me. I got it and I think that's a rather have the him taking those shots. Then then, particularly draft
and so to me, that's what I would do. But again, ah you see how goes ebbene holiday above rated carry also in those two broken games. A month ago I may add a we know holiday can actually handle carry, but it all waters You are hardened handles it, but that that's, my initial thinking is, if put it on our shoulders, carry wants it. You have a chance to sort of disrupt the can three of Brooklyn along the way and think that's, I would approach it interesting. I love that just casually. Did the throwaway line about how carrying the plan against you guys Wait two years ago on my baby didn't show up. It was probably the main reason guys one the series and will bother me as if it does the next trying to broken lucky car. We look for a little revenge. I got up. There's no revenge, she's that south excited by weak. We don't get revenge added ass. I could care less. What happens with them? I am I what
put him on output out an inquiry. So I disagree. I think he can take him out. I did taken throw enough people had to read where, they're not going to take the ran out they're not going to shut him down, but they'll make him work and he will still get to his DE, but it will take time a bunch of people on a Yo Yo in the middle and then I think you you have to make hard and the one they beat you, because I actually think same logic you have, but if hardens do and the one on one I've gotta be the one who's scores, that's a great for diary for the ring. Carry right. If reason his head Keziah holiday item. I think it's you length harden and if he goes I knew of yadda to protect the land. So then the only question is the FAO trouble, but it would be an awesome second round series and I think the best thing you have gone for you is Brooklyn. Just ass played with each other? Now you could feel it in that game. Why we dont were taken as for games you tonight, but you know,
they went all what I want and game won against the Celtics. Then they eventually figured it out, but the lack of reps she could stay with the Lakers to in game, one, the lack of reps versus what you have where you know who say what you want about coach bud at this point, but there when a system in place, the two best players have been playing together for a long time, the rope, whereas on over there, how they can fit in anywhere, and I just think you have more so in that year, does get to other big weakest, though not the biggest number one is but question. You know yet irritatingly omitted found as Kazanovitch people fully understand why. I think that by is a brilliant a razor he really as an end. He was the sort of coach that Milwaukee needed coming off. Jason kid Waikiki Professionalized, the team he makes it do you learn to play a certain way as best as you as you can, and your gun to be an incredible regular season team year in and year out, using this throughout his career, I thought
The challenges in the play off you have to adjust, not just gained, gave a quarter to quarter and he's just doesn't adjust quick, and when he does not always adjustments that sort of make makes complete sense lay end. I think you see this some coaches are just more system: oriented court coaches in your fans, obsessive decisions and I didn't see all the other stuff- and I think in that case, but does good bad rap. All the other stuff he's he's great at like building a program. I think, but the in game adjustments just don't seem to make sense and or or happened to slowly. I think it is is the thing that happens. and here, and there is also a thing where he want you want to do a system. Is that a pounding mismatches- and I think this big problem in the last few years, where teat led away teams load up against the Addis and there I was in a sense where it all right if there are going to guard Chris Middleton, the shooting guard like thought too quick, melted. In the high posed or though or the mid posts
future rounds all day long is that it is that an efficient sought and rigour season, wealth, Griff, melted, actually kind of agreement makes it. May I them, but that at some point you just gotta make a teen pay for playing you a certain way and that's not an approach is traditionally taken, but we'll see I mean there are some goods eyes out of this. Our talk, you myself, do it you're the top, where my forty five minutes ago, one which yet a big improvement that game too they started to hunt you'll Robinson and drug, it's more which they didn't do name wanted. I've point my hair on game one but made, but so hopefully there is some and there they change changed, opens a little bit to give youngest more pressure releases against the wall and so will see. But in all the other problem is the off guard. It's that second guard.
Don t. You could you guys who didn't like dollars, doughty I'll, tell you that the ivy, the promised Dantes kind of he, makes three or four play the game that are just incredible like he's. That is definitely has the instincts, but he also makes therefore plays that just make no sense at all got him. He shoots lapse differently. Every time you take some honey, never nope, it's gonna, get gotta do is just a yell. You just jumps all over the place on defence is not reliable on that and it all Forbes gets picked out. I'm the first Brooklyn Milwaukee game, Brooklyn attacked Forbes like eight possessions in the road in the fourth quarter. it was a brutal, and that is what would the game there he's. Probably other lab against the nets. I think Sylvia, because that is not the problem. Where would you have always want to one guys they all they want to do is on mismatches, so the air
going to find whatever weakness. The bucks have the court on the court and are just going to pound it again and again and again, and so that's going to be that's going to be the big thing at the buzzer to have to figure out last bucks question then we'll move on to big tech, so yeah. The last couple minutes a game one you get that feeling like. Oh shit up there It was around the rim, its I can Guy actually handle the last three minutes of a game like this, and I am still not positive. I have an answer. I think what is different about this bucks It is with Holiday Middleton. You can patch together no offence that may be used in the early two thousand Lakers blueprint where Europe cares you for the first four, five minutes and maybe the other two guys take over the last three, but that's the looming guillotine, We address this whole career. I d, do you trust them in the lurch? three minutes. What happens if he gets found? Are another team
we go out of their way to found in. In that seems they saw that and whether how much they use him in utilise him and cruncher? Isn't that the biggest thing they have to figure out cause eyes? I still haven't yet I think that's definitely the case and the other thing we haven't seen yet, as a team start really intentionally folly Addis, because I think that could really good his head and so the rabbit yeah. I did these Beaufort point that game three or something like that. Just tack a freak. Yet I was hope. He does because this is the series at some points. Gonna happen on us in the playoffs. and he's got it deal with it and he uses weakness is. Is this mental aspect like he gets in his own head, particularly around free for shooting and ITALY the it maybe using the ten second colleague its be it was be us I mean it's. Actually it should be a technical fall for the bench recounting. That's
Yes, the rules, people don't know that, but are, but you know it was gonna happen at some point soap. Might as well happen now and and yet it is a fair point in ITALY, as we do have a copy thou Coolby. I think you know I've came The project will be so much more waiters career and looking back on those teams, botany really was too, though, shack teams at by your. We also. If I, our second guys nowhere near coolby, but our third guy, where there was a third guy knows too, so I think we re sort of the hope is again if you are a patch it together. In that regard, the other good thing that the bucket and this year's run so much more. pickin raw and drivel hand ass. If Yon is where he's going to the basket and an you saw yesterday that when he's going to the basket that regard he's gonna finish the play: more often than not be driven Trevor Risa tackled, I'm like a free, safe Kane. He still made the Zat Adele, if you get the situation, varies missing the end one free throw that's. I certainly better. And then worries he's heading one of two hour or missing both Bobby
amazing if it ends up being Yiannis and deed in the EAST finals, not to get ahead of ourselves, but that is that is a possibility, and you know the bucks could have taken. I gotta get like an under radio, whatever the teeth of the two thousand tens right, because it beavers can be the first back. He got hurt. Cleaving got scared off at work, because they knew they probably want to trade. The pic is there get Leubronn than he wanted you don't they do want an injured asset? Milwaukee wanted Jabari it to because he was the quote: unquote: local can't, even though he really wasn't his from Chicago, but there was a world in which they could have just said. Fuk, it we be honest, is years away and beads tears away. Let's go. They could have been the better version of the process, the Canadian US in a bid in the same team thither. many there's so many brutal thing. Maybe there's a lot of Sacramento kings energy where this player, as suggested he likes our market.
The work and take them up. Act of Arbed, vaguely think rightly vaccinate it's been rough. Are there so many rough draft x? I mean that the Fawn Baker Year, thereby adding next, was the bonus. I mean imagines bonused at the five you no point by next year. and what about the choice between Courier Matteo S, semitic, allegedly I'd out around now true, but the day to day Wilson Overall, Vienna, Nobby date, avatars just it's it's out. The bucks have no right to be at all the failure, at least they and the previous regime took the honest and traded for Middleton the the Brandon heading four four for a night trade where Middleton was a throw in an that's, basically carried the team for a decade, and is the reason why there contenders and end it speaks to one what a great Ayala's his at all would have great barrier
but to I'm in the NBA man having a player like that just covers over such a multitude of sends you doin. I'm not gonna, do not get a double tatum or anything like that. But that's where you see the difference in levels between like a top five in the top ten or twelve fifteen. Like you have someone like yadda your beating for a title year in year out, even via, like Deadwood like Eric. What's on the roster end at your feet, he went no matter who's out of its building a privilege right anyway, it's a privilege to cheer for him and but nothing more than a seems, accede and any sort of fingers cross of wages in chinks, the entire and I feel so- I'm not. I feel that I feel pretty guilty. I mean westerns or even worse, I've got guilty about them. It hasn't even happened yet. Well, I'm happy that you through that game, one at least and there's a lot of hope for for the planned by the way, fanned overturn these bird bets point three bans and assess wednesdays. Bad is gonna, betraying versus Julius Randal, and I think we do-
the tray oxide but said check that out- I went Zan fanned o the also be there would take a break, come back and talk about big tat. Today so it is brought about Miller, light summers here that means grab and ever opportunity bears with friends. That means grab some cold Miller light and, if you're lucky enough to see some live, tennis or Gotha summary Have beer subdue players I'll? Do it the way you want to do it? You ve earned it this year, nothing crazy Jason. Rate, tasting Miller light that would fill you up. I'm lookin or to assume Zambia, laughs and actually taken a couple weeks off. I have trouble going on vacation cuz. I end up continuing to work anyway, but I'm really going to do it. I'm going to hang out and spend time friends, family the whole thing weapon. Then half an hour late along with me. Everything changes year to year this here's a little happy unless you can always depend on the greatest merla.
The next time. You get ready to enjoy called ones with your crew, go Miller, light tat come forward such be asked to find your reactions near you, or you can pick up sooner premature anywhere. They sell beer, its maritime celebrate responsibly, Milburn Company walk, he was constant. Ninety six collars and three point you carbs per twelve says I you have a lock on on you: have the box in the Middle We thank, you might have Brooklyn come in and then Philly than the Lakers. Who knows you you by completely fall partner? We could, but you also have in your attackers blog in your podcast that all the stuff you cover has gone haywire. The last time you around. We talked about the Dizzy Fox merger, this time, which we have like three things to here, and I want to do it. We don't need to spend two hours in this. first one was eighteen tee in Time Warner. Eighteen t basically looks at this giant They did with Time Warner. If using it happened yesterday and they go. we're bad at this. Let's get her out of this.
and it was like. It was basically like what the Bucs win. Try to get it to do so? Will I know I actually did this, I I I opened up the Did I wrote about the article it? I did a paragraph of the box I want to make that exact analogy. I will allow every thing about this initial deal was was not use it. Ass. There was a disaster in very it in all areas way. I mean that the big picture is it No sense it never made any sense at all. Not just me back RO the Sunday one when it was announced, it made no sense for a phone company to buy a car. In company. What about what about their rationale where they were like now? Now you get your phone and you could watch HBO honest. I can do that anyway, which would you go see? The birds were yeah. What? Because the problem is that if you have a s or we would call a vertical business model where your
competing in a zero sum game with other companies against rise, energy, mobile or whatever it might be the EU. What The reason I have interesting services is because you want to differentiate. your service like all. If you come to, if you come to eighteen t, that's the only place you can watch HBO, but the problem is that if you do It destroys the value of what you just bought, because the value of it comes from sort of reaching everyone and Zella horizontal company like it like content business, you make the content once you want to spread it in many places as possible is fundamental. we at odds with a sort of vertical waste so it made zero sense. What you do in that case is rising. Do like Disney plus rise and made a deal with Disney. Placid will offer it to our subscribers. You get a big jump in our use of them, base from day one? And then you pass a muddy, and that's you just like a deal you gotta, I the company and go and take all this all his huge amount of debt, but what's funny about it is you know that
the truth of mergers, those they always have synergies and stuff on those lines. Mergers makes sense. When there is a degree of anti competitive near to like you, do it because I can Teenty and Verizon merge like you, could see. Oh yeah they're, gonna be an even bigger company. There would be less competition they can pool their resources is very obvious. Why that's? What makes sense daddy and toilet those fox. Even you can understand their similar types of businesses why it makes sense aid, in the meantime were never made sense, which made the Justice Department SUI get even funnier because their suing something that is not anti competitive at not at all because its nonsense, it's like, so that was, big, it's actually deliver its reverse competitor been heard part did it did I need some eighty d at the? U what evidence that this was sort of like it politically, motivated. That's by far the most compelling sort a bit about it yet, but you get to this deal where makes all kinds of sense
like this discovery- is as their own service discoveries are of a very unique player in the field because they have they sort of own this nation. she tv and then the cooking, Jan or Travel Channel or whatever might be super cheap content that just sort of like you sit down. You watch, as I thought, years later that what am I doing with my life, but what that's like great content for streaming service day of your lot of international possibilities, your company that own all their content, have but our hand internationally, because they don't have to worry about. Cutting deals are getting out of deals into sort of go direct consumers and it makes all kinds of sense too, fine, that with Time Warner's much more sort of branded well known content, which are of a trust consumers in the first place. So putting these two pieces together makes a lot of sense. It sort of a as good recovery, as you could hope for four always a truly atrocious deal in the first buy sell. Does the Milwaukee bucks analogy it's amazing and it was a train wreck that was
Train wreck the entire time, the very Rinaldo him over your leg out. This is actually going better than I thought it ever happen to any point. I dont, because you did analyze it from a business perspective and it was bad, but then you like what I can imagine there being a culture pa between a phone company, entertainment company. But it's like you don't know, maybe look you're. Not now they figured out they stay. This look like they drove out all this talent particular needs be outside they pursue to water down the each bill brand and go to its real Brandon Watch. Big bang, I'm like a show. That is like the antithesis of everything that HBO stands for and end had so you're, very much of rescuing the decorous of a shipwreck. And see if you can build your sort of a smaller boat along the way did the other thing that that is under a priest while this deal, though, is one of the things that has driven There is need for a very long time has been their strength in able bundle. I eat or any people talk about ESPN, but it's not just the heaviest pianist that they have a whole bunch of channels and so be like all european,
nine, ten bucks for my beloved eleven or twelve bucks person Strieber without Prof borders, that's actually only the edge of the profitability of all their other cable chain. They would charge more for them than they should because it's a bundle, its with electors, a bundle within a bundle and so egotist and he's been to end the Disney Channel and all the little it all. These other chat never heard of, and what this does do. His discoveries now gonna be just new is because Disney, perhaps even bigger as far as number channels. where they they have all your deviation. Tvs of the world have all their sort of their content channels that they already combined with tee Anti, which is obviously a big sport property combined, Seattle with all these different other other pieces, and so there's a they're gonna, actually improve their cash flow significantly with give cable still exists like it still out there,
steadily declining, but there is still a lot of money there and that's actually, a very nice fit with the sort of attempts to rebuild a streaming service and, and so good that are actually well placed there might be more mergers, is something definite keep an eye on Comcast Minos, Comcast, Universal, works. Very lonely are seen as Viacom looks, pretty lonely we'll see you go through this process intact and in business where Sir on bundles right. The internet era comes along everything, breaks apart, but then it real forms into bundling b b, because bundles make a lot of sense. They make sense for consumers, they make sense for produces the masons for distributors and what were going through. It is, you don't wanna commodities like three streaming services MAX and the Are you going to lose a lot of money on the way, but we're going to end up in a place where you're paying about as much you did before. You're, just in different people and end, and I think you can see that starting to take shape
Will they irony is that's what I grew up or through three major downwards, and now we have the major networks issues we have Netflix with Disney, and it is almost mares, like the college sport seen right where we have a bunch of people that were like midnight, yours you're, the great analogy, somebody that one they are the lack and if I were you guys, actually architecture when the tide, I did that's what made work exact. It's so amazing, as I do actually wherever the chance and that, but it does every Disney Netflix are the SSC in big Tent like they're there yeah, they're gonna be fine, no matter what like there is ever Nels assorted, trying to figure it out right in HBO, MAX which I agree with you and I actually think HBO got out. Is pretty unscathed because they still have really good content, I'm a little bias. We have a thing there, but the age MAX thing is just cited we're conglomerate of all these different things. They should have just not called it hbomax. It should have called it. Like. I don't know the Orange network
We pick an aim that is peak phone company thinking it's like I know, name word just go in word: DORA get a slap another easy just like a phone company winds, because you have no choice right right. There are inherently terrible marketers ended Dewey. Certainly I saw that up in there some. I guess what you say is. Nobody wants to be made major ruin she's gonna end up. Maybe we have four major things instead of three, but nobody wants to be were HBO Max was which I don't I didn't see this confirmed, but people are saying that if you really look at it bad that twenty million subs right leg, it really viewed removing all like you get free HBO per year, other stuff, it's a good idea to twenty million. You can't compete against Disney That's already over a hundred. You have no chance the This is always innocent. The mistake, the private all these folks are going to face, which is if yours darting late. You, when you think about there's a pizza,
out there right. They all want it. Well enough, we can say: ok we're going to spread this kind. Over the hundreds of millions of users right until our price per subscriber for this content is quite low. Disney can say We have you, no nine figure subscribers our price for content. It is quite low these other guys come in and their sub scale, and so their pay their price per content. Prosper, subscriber, I should say, is- is way higher to be speaking. That's number one but number two you can get away. That, if you like, Amazon or a start up out of quite large now actually as well, because that's like your building a business and people investing, you would just like to invest enough. What's the sack Marquis enough licks or the Dep Mercosur stay in the sack marketeer rated at all this money to sort of build opposition, the problem of urine, existing studio is you're not just pay extra on a person's cover base for content. You're not getting paid extra by everyone else to sell your content and end so
is actually very underrate in this regard. We are so need. They just cut a deal netflix a little bit ago and they all but a deal Disney's other keeping the window where, like the first run on we may well be a netflix in the sector and will be a dizzy and their double dipping on other content and their contents like gold, because the AL these streaming serves is needed. and so not only is Sony not wasting tons of money on buying content there eighteen tons of money by selling content in doing what they're good at their good at making cars not good at running a customer service business. That's not good at marketing, and that's you that's the other mistake. All these studios are making, and so they're gonna combat at some point I refer you a couple years ago that Netflix gonNA has or of a rough few years, but there are going to actually come this far far stronger. I think that's exactly what's happening where yet all this, petitions are paying more for content. They would like to end in your people's attention divided, but at at some point these folks are gonna come to their senses. Just like eighteen t did
realize this is a massive wasted money, not just in what yours ending, but in we are not making in other guests are cited Afflux again and ethics is gonna, be this is gonna, be great one of Amazon and Apple, who tried to get in the content thing, but they got a half assed how to get in you know, I'm words, I guess we're doing content but Yedo some content, Netflix she'd, look at what they which is really shrewd and new written a ton about it. But you know they did they begged other people's concept from us, for years than they really started, making their own and by that and everybody realised what was happening. You know they had this massive lead. I think aims at China, shut the door, you spend nine billion dollars on the M library, which seems like it's maybe twice as much. The experts were saying as Oh, it's like this belated ketchup, game or language. Just throw money at a Zimbabwean. Mba team be like the centre, with throw money, did your book and they just kind of girls, so it
seems like Amazon. An apple can always rely on the deep checkbooks Sylvia. When they need it, the other. As somebody who is always helps. The other thing is given your Ebay, what Amazon's busily they want you to have deprived new scottish prime spend more money, but you just use aims as your default for shopping and anyone can eat or families. Do you have any like described, deprived anyone, it's I got, services available to everyone. S mail everyone in not in there are some way in a when work. You can shop on your your local retailer av, also shop and Amazon, and so in that sense them acquiring content that makes their service more active all lines, in a way that eighteen t were there in a zero sum game with rising T mobile. It never made sense to differentiated content because that car it needed to be everywhere. So what words I was on can credibly say: oh yeah, a quite content. That's gonna be available to the entire market and is going to
grew to other businesses. Not you can make. The case is still too much in their wasted too much money on it, but at least it is a business argument that makes sense, given the nature of the business are trying to drive on like eighteen tea, which obviously never made sense at all that not enough for us In a moment, he would do mergers, speed round most likely merger for you'd. What's the next one. oh, how everyone says Comcast and Universal yeah thinking the maritime industry, I Odd Comcast Universal, and I would also say Viacom- Are- are both religious sitting out there universal particularism in a pretty weak position. I think that makes a lot of sense to combine with this new discovery bit. obviously I think I have to spin off in the new channels. Zombie some overlap there, but to me that that that's what's or makes the most sense
discovery and time Warner critically. Dont have a broadcast network and I still think can be very difficult to combine CBS an embassy, for example rabies you would ever so. The fact that they don't got to me makes that the most obvious sort of durum wheat Weekly link up any other. Once what about Bio? Have no inside information on this obvious? Am I work? when the two companies, but wouldn't Spotify Netflix, be the ultimate like that's one. Where would be like holy shit, those two video audio together. I why you have to raise the question of what is actually being gained, though like like a spot, a fine networks, for it is always the question and mergers which is: could you have accomplished the same strategic goals by June?
during a partnership, men Netflix inspired by already do partnerships like the day they your, where you can see that the college, one where you can subscribe to both and you get a cheaper price and if you think about it like what what other benefits do sort of want, I mean thee At the other day there they're gonna, marry and people can subscribe to both and any directed deal with all the expense and cost of of actually making an opposition, but if you're talking Comcast universal. That of fairyland about you. That's a one plus one equals three from a scale standpoint. Absolute yet You have to get the scale and it's not sustainable these trimming networks, is not sustainable, be small, so one of them ass, the bulk up, what the point of Amazon spending as much money as they spent on Thursday. Papa in your mind, was that's it. That's crazy matter. I don't understand debate. Are they going to add subscribers with that? I don't get it well,
If you think about why Netflix does not do sports, which is Netflix what Netflix offers you was streaming and so when they acquire content that content is attractive notches to their currencies watch at the moment it drops, but that contents in their library forever and it's it's a reason to subscribe, going forward. My eyes, I like network, so never watched by the IRA are on my website to get tomb someday right. So that's why they would never wear sports. Amazon, on the other hand, wants you to buy more stuff right. They they, like their pay off, is sort of just getting they care much more about the customer acquisition of it. Then they do about necessary needing their streaming service, be alongshore monetizing streaming on ethics, as that is their business, and so that to think in that regard, where's Amazon is this massive sort of. Offering and they want to eat IRA data to want to take a tax of your entire life like their families and all right.
The data about your computing power? They go to the deliberate you're buying power is the shipping, etc, etc, and so yeah it is. I think, just some people aren't ascribe yet and predict wanna get exclusive games that just a way to get more involved to get more customers. I think it'll out imagined they. Damsels, very data, driven there, already sort of had it on a not exclusive basis. I I guess it probably worked, and now neither had have exclusive games, a big difference you I think, the prices package is gonna drive that many more than more subscribers, and if not, it is obvious that, if such as at acquiring subscribers, but it's getting subscribers used using prime like get you'll get prime installing on your tv. It private Yo Yo acquire a prime video stick whatever might be, get primary on your on Europa and now you're. watching other prime shows you already used to going to the APS. Others pay off that com, not just from the events. Also sort of reshaping customer behaviour in a way that sort of accrues to you in the long run, so their hoping to get like Bob from Say,
Louis who's, not an Amazon prime member, yet but the rams or a Louis is bad there. A team. Let me do that, and I know that our Saint Louis bought from Kansas City Hateful, sorry Saint Louis, that really I that was not intentional. That was that an intentional drab I bought from Kansas City. You won't see the chief Does the Amazon, I got a cool me. I need to see the chiefs so now he's on Amazon. Now is ok with the same as on prime, and now they have on their hope, so that this action you actually raise a really pushing point so number one. It's not just the guy that sign up. For the first time but the guy, who is already a prime customer but doesn't watch prime video, like is a reason. Why already have this great? Let me go, install it and watch it, etc, etc. it is these. The NFL is so smart is Bob in Kansas City actually has nothing to worry about, because
they will still show the game on local tv in the whole markets of the teams in the game, and the NFL has always have requirement when they did the deal with ESPN back in the day, every cable channel was required to simulcast game on a local broadcast over the air channel, and it's so interesting, as is one of the reasons the NFL is so much better place than any other sports league for this world of of core cutting, because it is they that there are not really susceptible because they have a culture of old. The air broadcasting in its built out of their business model, and so did? If you cut the cord You can still go by rapid ears and a lot of people do that, just for the NFL and its. It is one of many many ways where the NFL you don't did you obviously have a history with or without the NFL legal? is, to say the least by you, so to look back in its like a if your commissioner is widely reviled.
The good ship is actually doing his job and feasible love. There actually might be some red flags, and I think that there are some aspect of articles the Unifil, it's a bit, so anybody every able and business with the IRA very weak legs and maybe there's some issues that There might be a little bit of a lack of accountability off in the NBA soda. The better now is it Bob from Kansas City was a huge patriots, fit exactly in Asia and latterly forego apple verses, epic, the Apple app trial, which is you oh great piece about it today, where everybody's argument gonna make sense, which I think makes it so tat the kind of figure out which app and basically apples alone shark. They they feared at their there like you. Can we use a lot of money but we're gonna take percent vague they're just grab a money from everybody, but their their argument is hey. We ve created this entire ecosystem.
This. Whole ecosystem only exists because Khazar, so yeah, we're gonna be taking money in the question is: is thirty percent of the opposite to her of all the revenue from it. Should it be down to twenty. My god is that this will set all damn dropping down like twenty five percent in Vienna, We get everybody by witty the. How do you think this place up? Oh, I think a bit where I feel like a because the wrong company to make this case, because at the end of the day, what is epic selling their selling, like costumes in dances in this digital paraphernalia? That doesn't cost anything. A courageous are floats in the ether, and it really is just a fight about money. Right like there's, there's not like nothing is actually hindering. The operation of their business are vital, if not the whole classic, what sort of businesses are not being created that could be in the case of epic, while the other their days when it what more money and no one apple to have us and
actually very sympathetic to apple. In this regard, because you think about all these games, that urges heavily engineered to just with as much money audio pockets as quickly as possible and if It's authority bad enough in the app store where there was a modicum of control and parental controls and yet put in a password you imagine some these companies Indeed, we are credible information in and it's gonna be a disaster I think there is very real value in apples, control in games and their frankly isn't that much of his saddle cost of them taking their share social at this, I thought is a bad case. A better case. Arrow fatalities in your body asked is Spotify having spot, I have one of the most compelling cases. Attitude! Don't cut me off. If you need to have this unless it's free speech, I've bought up by is directly competing with apple for music service exit that Spotify if they want payment rapidly, three per se,
apple, doesn't, I believe, buoyantly unfair, it so unfair and so Spotify doesn't have paving the APS. They can offer the same prices. what music you have to go the web and apples like me, you can't even saying your web at your end. you're out that even those who have to sign up you have to watch the operative like a breakthrough area. It's like that's where I think it crosses the line, what you get games get into like a content. Creators like Twitter announced this new thing right. Like you know, death is new spaces, product ill competitive. With luck No, you have to go on, but there they, you could sell tickets and if you sell tickets for five bucks, you pay Twitter, the EPA Apple, their share. You have no choice. You pay twitter their share and suddenly the creators like making half of what they they sold it for and to meet his bump me out, because the internet is so interesting exciting, for
new business models. It creates the idea that people can sort of own a niece, obviously my entire careers built on this idea and about that Apple just sitting around taking a scam, its perhaps wiggly, ok, kind of morally sucks agenda insult yield that that sort of my point is: there's no good solution here. Is you don't want Congress legislating how this stuff works? You dont want the ports do it apples judges chill out like you, don't like. I get the gain thing, but what's makes sir. We leave room for innovation swearing in eight. They just haven't really done that or say. You're gonna use ten per ten per cent of that thirty percent. To put back in time. New creators are aware. However, there is some way to spend it where you just that, like stuff in your
and whatever generals who a pr perspective, but the idea. I think that the up that's the weird thing is apple- is facing this lawsuit are facing action, European Union. Just the partners are poorly investing them for a site business before aside hustle right that I usually like Microsoft, it's busted for for windows. If, like get its windows, if their core business, the absolutely their leveraging need all the hell out of that apple. It's like Ito, their core business is selling Iphone and oh by the way, are running off alone, decide and working to hold onto a for dear life, I mean, if there s a very valuable one. A huge part of Marty gap is tied up, enacted Zyobite. I just keep cubby and without have yet toppings Fremont yeah. But it's it's. It's just kind of odd out there, so walk down on it and just you know, but yeah so wealthy was it. Was you but I think that when the case we maybe with a couple things on the edges, but it's not
awaits gabinius you sort of going forward. I, why save some stuff for next time you come on. Khazar bucks correspond at like the bucks agreed, be relevant for a couple months. Next time you come out. We should talk about our you're, just trying to curse me. Why you're not trying to get anything, so I think I will draw our son. I would add a few years ago, dahlias now you're on lesser I bet on the box. Amid I have a bucks, Lakers finals, better the bucks to win these them him next time you how we talk about sub stacking writers, going straight to the people and that all thing would you. You were eight years ahead of everyone on that, but that's that become something. But where do you live that very your next appearance? I thought you'd be a variously person to talk to about that specific topics. I look forward to it. Well, I'm not a writer anymore. My thing I'd That's life would have liked the last echo attire. Ah, I bet that's a great to see you as always check out this strategic harry. Blogger newsletter, you can you can. Is it a blogger newsletter,
I guess I can't I've already called his argument. Does why get mad at sunset? sleep there I'd always it would do let her business. I don't. I write a blog. You can receive the e mail. If you choose but to me, because I'm old, like the iron website and I will give you my freedom gives my independence and, and there I mean buttoned. We said we talk what next time so. Well, it's faggot awesome. Gotcha get out, I learn a lot from it. Every week bent out to get to see good luck with the bucks fingers. this ep, so the dose of his power, cast his body by hotwire. Imagine a nice vacation their view, the popular! No, so don't book it cheap hotel book and expand the hotel for cheap on hotwire with hot rate deals? You can stay There are a thousand everything possible just so your city, neighbourhood and amenities, then get your heart rate that abuse king size beds, freshly press Waffle, woven robes of awaits you and also actual waffles.
Download the hot, whereas now book beyond your wow, this means all bookings final Adam duritz this year he's a guy who's been in my life since one thousand nine hundred and ninety three, but amazingly in my a lot, the last four years, your mood, the kind of cross by daughter's favoured. I favour bad on these soccer chips. It's always the playlists that we go do so, for I feel, like I feel, like you're in the car with us I told her that you're gonna be on outraged. Foot out was the most depressed ever been with me ever my entire life really that's kind of wild. I feel it usually my friends who won't stop playing music. one killin, I'm glad the other way round and nice She loves, she was music, she live sing it and she loves. We talk about the eggs in the songs and stuff. I think one thing that's been great for you guys play? Was there are right? You have this whole rare of songs and then constrain them together. You can put them in any sort of
order. You want opinion. What mood you are you guys just have a ship one of them and there are great and it's not gonna indoor. If you like, I was wondering whether people put us. His at all, I'm glad to hear they do yeah. Can we go backwards, chose out ninety three, you eat your first album becomes I think one of the best first albums of the last thirty years and you go from nobody knows who the fuck you are to a mass. Overnight. Success which is funny because the first that becomes a head is kind of about. You want the success, your dream For you want it to happen there that way, neuron empty Vienna that you ve talked a lot since, about. You know, haven't such a weird relationship with fame and success as that's her. In the moment. What do you remember about that? Twenty, eight years later,.
it's really weird, because Mr Jones, I mean yeah, it's a song about wanting to be a rockstar, but it's also a song about knowing or the guy in song, not realizing, there's not going to be everything he wants it to be. You know a ninja stay here through his delusion about everybody loves me I'll, never belong in I mean so. It's got both sides to it, yawned and then it happens and it's like I'm. They had to be present myself, Edison seriously, preshent songwriting, but I mean it was also weird because We had a big fight over the song. The label didn't want it as a single, and I didn't think it was obliquely great single. We all thought ranking was the big single but you'd put out introductory song. then they wanted a murder of one cause. It had that Jesus Jones drumbeat, I wouldn't let them edit anything's, couldn't use murder one. I suggested Mister Jones. We agree to disagree and released nothing and then went on tore, open For a bunch of bans that were doing really well swayed the cranberries cracker
we just lied to radio people about what our single was almost seemed like a good. Now I didn t like it values, really gonna work, but it did like suddenly that song started took off and but even when it was doing really well radio and finally released the video which happened because, as I remember it, MTV called death it and said where's that sink where's. The video for the Cannon Gross England, given how to say what is the counting curse single again and there, like Mister Jones, will become a conversation This then, but even when we put that out, we ve still weren't, even in the top two hundred Mhz We played round here on Saturday live that the record jump forty spots a week for five or six weeks and landed us at number two of sudden for a couple years. I'm so was weird. It was like a kind of game, nowhere, but we ve been on the road for awhile, like I may not seem like a well for us is probably three months.
For months, and we played Saturn lived six or seven months when the record really blew out and like Eight or nine months before we realized it, that's something a change. We could see it on the chart with huge, but the culture really hit us. I remember we went away. They went our first european trip that April of ninety four and it was no big deal we'd plates and headline, right before we laughed, and we were in mid range thing. We came back to us, AIDS and landed in New Orleans during Jas best. I got mobbed everywhere went at something I've been going to four years and then we played Tipp Atinas, there's like a thousand people inside the club and five thousand people outside on street, it was crazy. I mean also, we realise o everything's different now, and then we had a big summer. Tar, where was clear that when saying- but we do know you didn't you- don't realize it at first, because the the Beatlemania part of it, hit, you right away ass kind overwhelmed, so
Talk in its four years before the internet highly becomes anything gray, and there his old away, discover music, where, especially with that album, it was my fringing great, is like yet this new kind of cross out really good and he had to make this decision Indeed, two maybe three d spent fifteen bucks on this CD or not. Do I trust my friend I trust this one song that I heard on the radio that I trust as one video size. This worth fifteen dollars and I remember but the album and others I'm back on a train, Firma from Boston, Connecticut and listen to it, and it was such. It was just such as this start to finish album theirs. But couple from that error that I feel like, I think the first day baptism was. I bet cranberries out like that, but nowadays I think like, Ten years later, everything you described, it's almost the opposite sick, the bizarre version of it right if it would be honoured,
Take off right away. You would be date immediately enjoyed in dissected in five minutes sudden and then, I'd be it so. It was like this organic way to Canada Scope. farmer with an album there s a really miss. You know. It's weird, I think a happened back then. You know, like Marianne, had six albums five or six albums on an independent label before they ever put out a major able album so like they were so made spent so long being everybody's in he call discovery. But you know you don't make them tat line for their ethnic or you can. There is nowhere. There's no reason for anyone ever say a bad word about the yunkers they had. We had one album that way, but you know ye. I was a different era that you could never have a career like Aryans. Now it would be if it would be we'd, be bizarre really really The pricing to do that, because you that eventually find things injured and then it feeds on them in
was the way radio used to wear like the radio in the bigger you got the almost more of a death knell. It was because they play so much tell me people hate you in army you nor the shit out of people after two years, with the successful record, like I'm sure Mister Jones got on people's nerves after awhile You know about the internet. Now it will eat you up that way, if you're not careful well, my generation, I graduated from college. Ninety two- and we were just v very, very, very wary and fearful of of somebody becoming successful, right, Nirvana people. We want to keep I'm in their little cage over here where we love them. Our aims. A great example right. Our aim was like the best college radio- band of the eighties. they started to act should become really successful and it was complicated for a lot of us raise a great weight and I would still like I'm all end like these outcomes and other people now fuck it there to mainstream. Now and then you kind of shifting, like the pixies her you know, Billy Brad,
whatever you just have. The people argued gravitate. Third, the people out there but their via my buddy house love there. You know fathom, for the above that blew up and then when it, with them, and you could see Cobain was I wait this I dont want this. This is because what I attended, didn't seem like you totally wanted at either based on the second album. Well, I think I'm driving, but we had put it, was very worried about you know: Siena's come and go and people's careers as fan. You know it was pretty obvious to me, and I we were Mister Jones was a sort of single we weaving should put the video I will refused to do anything but round here for the second single cause. I really wanted to establish who we really were, and the plan was always to go with ranking after that, but we were so big by time round came round. Here was out that I went to the wreck company. I said
I won't release any other single. I won't make any more videos. This album is big enough. I want to career, not one record and has to stop and, and they were furious and like I was- I don't care. This is great, but also I was unaware guy I'm very awkward round people. At times it was hard for me having to talk to everyone in the world. All the sudden have the whole world come to. You was difficult and I was friends with Kurt and I saw what happened to him He looked to me a lot like me. Three years later, you know, and he was a very, very sweet diamond and one will best friends are in the new and that we were label mates. I really liked him and then, while I was in London, not one that I was learning by remember very distinctly landing in Paris in April of that year. You know we respond
on the cover of rolling stock, we're waiting. I just met David Wild, the writer and Mark Selinger, the photographer, and they were actually really good guys and I finally felt better cause. I was nervous about being on the cover rolling stone. People realize it now, but that wrecked that magazine was on the present. It meant your face, is gonna, be on every street corner in America. Would that there is now the combo that yeah there is no way to recover from the fame combo. Those two things- and I was very nerve- about that, and I mean that hot that hotel in in Paris and there's a they asked me to come to light the courtesy phone and when I picked it up, my former in our guy told me that they could have been missing for a few days. They found his body any you kill himself, I'm sitting there in this lobby. Haven't gotten maybe I'm the first person in Europe to find out. You know, and I look at these two guys from rolling stone. You wanna put me on the cover rolling stone. I was terrified. You know- and you know I knew that I wasn't as comfortable without stuff is a lot of other people would be, and it was awkward and difficult for me.
And I had a hard time of it, and I really I was scared and ip night I didn't look. I want to be a rockstar, but you don't know what that means until it happens. It lands on you like you know it would end. For me, I struggled I mean look. I've sends a million times if you walk upon Mars you'd. You take a few days to get used to the gravity and I've been thirty years now. I'm used to the gravity. I still am awkward, but you know I got no burn out. I just took the last seven years. Not off, we ve been playing Torres, but I don't wanna ploughed into the record cause. I wasn't ready to do all this. You know rent but yeah, especially at that time. I really really struggled and it took me while in I got out of the barrier. I moved to allay no, I don't, I felt better. I want to be creative again but yeah, but the thing is always written songs about myself in my life and how I feel so, of course, the second album was going to be about
nor would fain, because that's what my life was about right then it was about. I became a famous rockstar and here's. What I went through in these are just as honest as the songs on the first out there. Just maybe a little less reliable, I guess cause. I was gone through something tiny, unique right, then re What I mean, I say one of the great music genres right, the artist struggling with the fact that they become way more famous than they thought they're gonna, be you had see me lately, which there's too it is about re, because you do the second one in the unplugged, are. We aware that we play storytellers and made everything acoustic and the unplug the acoustic version. Is, I think incredible. I think it's in the running averred bets on you, you ve ever done in the performance of it and it's my daughter's favorite. But it's all about not be him. Do the famous in
tat know who to trust that what's cool about it, though, is the fast version of it. It hits like a totally different way in its eye to different experiences, which I think is a really NATO, the thread you know I gotta get what you along, like a mean two different things. Basically. Well, you know this. we have a lot of different shades, at least what I'm writing. I try to write about. They're, not simple like even Mister Jones is about fame and the desire to be a rock star. Dream of it, and it's also about this isn't going to be what you think it is. It's not gonna fix everything in the world. It is going to be famous, you know, which is great in some ways and not great in other ways, but all my songs have those things in them, and the nice thing about acoustic versions is not like beetle songs. Once you ve heard something enough. I do know that you hear it anymore, you just kind of no it. You know, but a caustic versions give you a chance to like open up some of the other facets of the song
introduce people the other things that are going on and explore different kind of emotional part to those songs, maybe lean a little bit on something else. So if the sun has been leaning, seventy percent one way, Maybe you can leave a little the other way. I think those versions down that storytellers that I think one one of angels of the sciences. Really cool fantastic beautiful, unlike with accordion than the mandolin, is a great version of that on their yet we really I really enjoyed like does allow A work to magazine account with whole new arrangements for all your songs. A boy you play different instruments to write your like vat around with people just doing gravity at once Once on that, they didn't normally play yeah I mean it was like. We really put a check the whole summer when we were on tore from for recovery satellites. We worked everyday soundtrack and we added acoustic sets to the sat in the middle to make ourselves develop all these different versions of songs to play on storage
cause. I wanted it to be like a completely like a whole new album full of these signs added How did you find your guys? What year was it and how many of them were people you'd known for longer than just you're looking for people to fill out a bit o all of them really I mean we were all we're all in their bands I met them, I mean did Bryson after my first ban split up. I decided I don't blame you getting more. I kind of like my fourth experience. It's hard running a band. You end up fighting with your friends. I realize now just part of it yet the first time that happens, it was kind of heart, Emine. Honestly, it's what separates people who do things for Hobbes from people who do things for their life. You know the Hobbes just for fun and with the first time they run up against something this not fun. It's a big thing you gotta get over and I had a problem with that for and I decided to like earn a bunch of money and go backpacking around Europe and quit playing music and they get all of my life. I'll see you one of those guys yeah. I want to go play. I want to go
around Europe. Let us ensure that even hockin reality Bates little bit. You know, but why I landed in Europe emerges and I can't remember, Tobin and went on tour. Opening for tender lax- and I was like- ah fuck- you man, that's an awesome. Laying the Greek Theatre online. Ok, I gotta go back home. I was away for a few months now, like I can't you anymore? I gotta go play music, but the night before I left I got together with some friends and they introduce me again today, Bryson, who had met when he's doing sound for one of my bands once and we started doing some stuff together. So I can't I had some to come back to and all the other guys they played in other and that we left open for or closed for. I knew Dan and Charlie there in the sky patch of winning hands ban. They later released a tender mercies record a few years ago, but that damage the good kind of country gospel,
and I knew from another being called a mad affair. Charlie did Matt was in day brightens old band then eventually like when we got Jimbo decide not him for years he played November Amer and he also play with Cheryl Crow Yes, I am, and I have been friends from the very beginning he plays on the first forty five I ever made. We'd always want to be in a band together and we just soon we'd start one one day, but once I got an accounting crows, I wasn't leave them, so we had to decide that he was join our band, which we both crazy about. Is you had so many thanks for the first eyeball MIKE you left stuff off. That became in a couple cases some of people's favorites. from the bed I don't know. I don't understand why you are that prolific with a first out, why I've been writing songs for all, and I think that I've been in some really good bands and I tried to bring a songs to those bands of ground
there is an even it wasn't. There was a hymn lands on the other ones. You know so, though the ones I didn't amp on the record, I think they're really tuneful they're, pretty cool melodic Lee. I don't think There were anything we really wouldn't even considered for the first album some of it. Once there is a song called forty years. There is another called love, an addict you know we don't even really consider those songs for the first record I sat on the beach was never even considered what about Marjorie Marjorie was Marjorie. We tried to make on the first album and tried to make on second album, though Marjorie S got a different problem is just got a structural problem. It's a really cool verse. It doesn't really have a chorus. It should not have had this refrain it built to in a really cool way. It's just me, Jerry and shallow days, I thought were both really good. They just had some structural problems that we realise when we went to record them. That kind of
didn't work, so you think about that album. How are the songs almost like a batting order, a baseball and if you put the wrong even if it's a good song on it, you put that song in that batting order, and it's kind of screws up the other. We and I think, one of the reasons we never made bad albums as I have a really high bar and I'm really strict about like what goes on Iraq. some of those songs, even other, really great melodies and are tuneful. It doesn't mean enough to me You know it's got a really mean something and later, but I found the beaches a great song, really catchy piece of pop. It wasn't trying to learn how to write a pop song. I love it, but it's more clever than it is meaningful and I never even considered it. For the first record, I haven't Marjorie story. I bet nut, don't get that, alas member this was there. The mid nineties were the era of bootleg city were you I get, because we do have the internet and there is a place in bosnia- is the salmon there's a cannon crows psycho?
I remember as one city or two, but it was some some carter you played in Europe. In Marjorie Resign and as the songs I get a camel they put the song in the arab woman, also its I. It's really dark headache That is what you ve done. It say it's actually like a short story, but anyway somebody In my car two years later, they took like my twelve Bess, It is encouraging that when I was God there is no record of it as a gouty, so then years later there they had the Sun Marjorie and then all of a sudden bought a fire announced back. You did their release like some massive hogs. exact saw that used to be, and the thing is now you can find it out spot. A fire was alive performance of those get, but it was be weird for you that these songs can just come back to life, NL weird way in the internet her, but those demos that we made at first got out the demos the got a sign that, although songs on them,
day they got out early on. I think it was called. I think the bootleggers call flying demos. some people have had those and they got on the internet. Pretty early, I'm not actually gone. There are things I was looking for that I had found on the internet. I d find myself, though I hadn't had now. I haven't heard a version of August everything after four years, the song and when I want to play it point like an old like maybe two round the millennium, or a few years later I had to find that on the internet are webmaster. I've won that more than the one where I actually went on twitter and said he I can happiness. I anyone got it in some ways like yeah, I got it here and he sent me an mp3 fit. I can't remember about the case by one of those songs I had at our coupled. I was looking for one minute: I've I've only found through the internet, so when you Lynette first album and you go round here in Omaha back to back which a it's really for now, but to do this and it's like rarefied territory were the first to
song said some sort of mood in this. This album for some reason just like throw the sun on a road trip on a train, a moving in some way me put it on, and it's like the perfect thinness start. Do you know that you're picking the songs you do you think Oh yeah. What should be firmly? I guess it seems like the type a guy who would upset. I dont know that it's gonna work, but I'm really really focused when I'm making sequences like it's really important to me that a record flow from top to bottom. You know it's not a surprise when I think about that. I made a record all the signs are connected like this one, because it's all we can really really important to me to get them. I've less on my favorite songs off records because as good as they wore, they didn't flow right. The record didn't work. I left Chelsea off of recovering the satellites. The best thing that ever written in my life and one of my favorites in that it was justice. It's me on piano and sparkles and a trio of horror
players from New Orleans that are really good friends of mine. Just sacks trumpet and chum bone of my friend Curtis watching you place the trumpets honour Angel Fourteenth Street brought to the guys from is banned. The sole rebels brass band the time and the four of us just did that song, but it's fuckin incredible, but that piece of piano and horn kind of Concerto. Did it work? I could not find a way to fit it in recovering the satellites right flood and I eventually I had to leave it off. I just it was upsetting, but it was I couldn't do. I did with baby, I'm a big star. Now the farming prominent allows, can was going to ask you about that from rounders yeah why it was because. That is not on any whereby the weights on- and I know that that's my fault and I'll tell you how happened I you know I wrote color blind and like the the day after I wrote colorblind those guys came to me and asked me to conceal screening of their movie and showed me krill intentions, and I said this is the weird thing, but I think
the perfect song for that seen last night, I don't even have a demo jail have to go. Do it, you know for eight years, escalator at rightfully back yeah. I'm definitely going our record, and I already know it's on a sound Trichina movie movie. So got a month later, John Doll comes and says undertakings call rounders, and I really want you to do causing theme for out, like, oh, my God, John Dolly's genius, absolutely no, so they showed me rounders I loved it away, and I wrote it I'm in the middle of recording this desert. Like this point, but our guide alot. While I'm recording- and I just finished like afforded colorblind, I had just finished Miss Potter's little, by which I also wrote in the studio and I wrote baby, I'm a big star. Now we recorded it anymore, it's just such a cool saw. I mean I loved it, but I know it's gone on the record, and so I told the people from rounders. You can have this for the movie. Absolutely I'm gonna give you a written for your movie. It's about your movie. I just
you can't have? It sounds like out because I already got one song on the record: precision is going, nothing. I record this not like already somewhere else. No one's gonna buy record, but then, when I went to sequence, the record I could not get babyhood based or not a fit on. The record is too long. It didn't work, I already had like eight or nine minutes song in MRS Potter's lullaby. All my friends is five minutes with her. The girls there's like all these long songs, I could not find a way to sequence it and have baby on a big star, and it did kind of stick out a little bit cuz, it's not about the same stuff as the other songs I left it off, but the problem is because I didn't give them that song there's no soundtrack album. I think there's like us a score album for the movie, but there's no like sound track record. think. Anyway, you wouldn't be on it, so we the song, is it hiding in Bulgaria has had on the internet. The only play it is on the end of the movie, but don't you own the song yeah, but I'm put it out or anything. I love that song.
armies, put it off, modify just give it to him. It's easier said than done, I've never been on a record company. But what do you think the chances are they lost? It? Oh interesting, I mean, like everyone here, lay bill. I I wanted some
from recovering satellites. When we were doing. I was looking for this piece of one of the songs that I want to try and use on Saturday night omitted Saturday, Sunday mornings. I I couldn't get people to call me back and finally, they admitted to me that they had lost it because all of recovering satellites was gone because they never picked it up from the mixing studio. Ah, they have the when we, when we finally fit mixed it for the last time it was too hard, there's two may tracks and how to use these slave reels, where you put to tape deck together to make something at the real pain in the ass, though the guy who mixed it took everything overtook Digital forty, eight track and just mixed it off that I could do it on one board. They got the digital. Forty eight tracks back from the thing, but they never picked up the two inches. They just lost them. That's when they were done like at the very beginning. Forget store
They lost them. Five minutes after we finished mixing and the forty eight tracks only have the stuff we put on the record, so the other stuff that was never mixed, then let the step we are working on. Songs were in the middle of their just gone. Then, four years since we did recovering satellites, we filmed like four different things: the storyteller show live at the ten spot, both of which are on that. I've album Josh Taft, who did the alive video for programmes from the first concert, which we took the view, of angels silences a great concert film and then monitoring Valerie Ferris and John Comparison Valerie, who did a little miss sunshine. They ate like a documentary.
us, while we are making the record- and so I would like our tenth anniversary of that thing in two thousand to I called labour. We want to do a deluxe edition of recovering sad eyes to the tenth anniversary, but we want this film. We know it is now a lot of Ex Tracks Munoz film stuff. They did, they wouldn't get back to me. They kept, but I cant find it somewhere will look for years, go by fifteenth anniversary. I do the same thing ass for it Nothing comes back. Are you heard this four years ago, but it turned out. There was a big fire one point here and they haven't told anybody about the fire. They want their embarrassing. They lost all the stuff, so their sale won't tell us what's lost, I dont know, what's lost I know they had a fire. I have no idea. If I were you two choices, you can either just
just cut it out of the end around or so just release it bit like we're just remix it make it better or you do the Taylor Swift and you just redo it. I've never slept so hard for him because I think everything so differently. The day after we get out of the studio yeah. Thought we would mean we should have we recorded everything years ago, but I'm afraid it would sound anything like the records at all. in a way it makes the song it gives added extra of because it just like it's gone, it's just You have to what he had rather than face. He could hear it. I did like a few last year's sometime, I literally put on and the move, because I was just danger: the sun yeah, it's really good,
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no wonder Zapruder is the number one rate a job side in the? U S. So when you wait for, if you want an easier job search sign up for free right Now- and you predict come once again good as it could account today to set up absolute free, put cypriot reward for you, zip, better, the smartest with her gone back, those first to our Who is whose Maria? Because one of the things I like about what you do is. We cannot go on your universe with the songs. Read the size, you gonna directions, but you have like a couple characters in the songs, One of them is Maria, who I know nothing. I have not Google decided researcher, but by take away from at least the first two arms is like other, Was the love of this guy's laughing and broke his heart, but was that a real person or is it like a conglomerate of multiple? Now? Was it Maria like the one care during all the early records, it isn't actually a real person. It was just like almost like
stand in for me in some ways stand in for, like all the things that make me want to write about things, the one kind of fictional character. I mean I've written in the last few records of a few more of those, but before that I really kept everybody's real names in it. I think partially it was. I had a crush on marine before I was. Rather I mean that the funny thing is: I'm really good friends there after that, but I think it's maybe why use the name, but it really wasn't about her but then, once I use it around here, I would come back to it and other places to talk about the same things you know was also it's a great word to say and song cause it's basically yet three, syllables in five letters tat you could throw down wherever you could rip it all, for you could say it slower by yeah. I figured it was a composite characters. because at that weird, if there is some, They Maria just water at San Francisco God he won't stop running songs about me. He keeps her
mere lego disorder, vanilla, strange what the I think I'm gonna write songs about people's their generally, not terribly critical of them brain like Anna Monica. water, Elizabeth they're. All those things may make them sad, but they love those songs and songs are very respectful of them memory. The right, much why things are someone else's fault, but they re more about that was deafening about somebody which one begins. Oh yeah, she's, very good friend Still. I still no really well she's married with three kids. She lives in Sydney, she's, always issues austrian girl that I met on a backpacking trip Red Viking back O Parliament's tell you, as we set an earlier the song that I started. The real counting crows with was Marjorie cause. I wrote that on the plane or. I think I wrote that on the plane coming back from Europe on that trip, keeping it in my head, just humming it and then getting
and figuring it out of the piano, but I think that's the first, that's a song. It was actually kind of the first counting gross on well it. Stombaugh demands upon the first two hours, but it makes sense the way you explain it actually as I have said, a voice memo in my phone right now from some time last year during the pandemic, where I was thinking about how do I fix that song doesn't need a chorus and I'd like recorded some ideas I had that might launch out of that pretty well. Instead, this going to that Instrumental break one if it went to, I don't know- and I thought I was actually looking at that last year- long before I must been nor must make two dozen nineteen years before I ever rotating off a swede. I found myself thinking. How do I fix that song cause it's broken yet, but I see out, I disagree. I think in concert
there's like this long break right, there's like a four second silence near the end, and it's really effective, I think that's an impossible thing to pull off when you're in a room with like I don't know, if seven thousand people, fifteen thousand people the song bills to something and it stops and then the crowd you can kind of feel the energy the crab like wait, what's got. Is it and then you again. I don't know, there's something dramatic about it. I don't know if that's on needs a chorus. It's weird though it worked live. It worked live at first, but it didn't. It has a different kind of scrutiny when you put something on Iraq, yes, what happened the moment live and you can get away with a lot of shit like that. You can't get away with on record, and I didn't realize that, because I really love that song it really when the birth of the ban in some ways and it's a great song and like the verses or pretty killer there really good. You know, but there was just a weight or something I got exposed.
Recorded and we get it for two different records is averted. The only person I have I'm sure actually have the original one of those demo things, but like the version for its really cool on satellite, because it has all the meltdown flute stuff, like sounds like penny lane flew yes and it's actually a really cool. Let the thicker distorted guitars against the mellow trans in those breakdown sections between the verses there. Really it's really. oh, but it just doesn't work somehow just there's something that you get away with, live that we work getting away with on tape it just if you just kept happening. I needed something, and I hear. There is a weird backlash against you. People, my age, petty, the second I'm just cause you kept dating celebrities Were you aware of that? At the time you get data? The best looking slept, of our era and at some point, people like me relax what the fuck fuck this guy. But how does he keep? Has a heap
in these people? Wonder what is happening. But so are you aware that this is early internet area? I'm fuckin charming? I mean I really am just about the nice guy. However, me when I'm being nice other damage, not so much, you know yeah, I mean I don't know what to do about. I mean I thought it was going to happen, which is why I tried to shut down that first album. I was sure it was going to happen, and I want to try and avoid it. I don't know what to do about it. I mean like I was getting pillard for dating beautiful women, but, like it seemed like a great idea to me, And I was getting in trouble for like a railroad, an album about struggling with faint, but I mean I was not going with names? So what did we want to be a celebrity or you didn't cause I could. On the other hand, it seem like you didn't, want to be a suburban another in year in relate so some of the highest profile women of that era. So it's like you kind of at least didn't mind that power.
no not at all. I mean I mean: why would I right now? Is it like what is actually like to date actresses? Who are insane people? Yes, you know, that's the only party minded, but now it's like I was. I have moved on to EL aid because in my working my struggling artist, town Everyone was furious, that I succeeded, move till working artist, town where people just want to know what kind of work I was doing and I loved moving away I met, I mean I'm, I want. I worked at a viper him I'd. It wasn't just. Girls. I met William Boroughs and I met allies. Gonna hung out with them and are hung out with Tom, petty and Gimme hangs, you know, and any I got to go to your. I love movies. I've been a fuckin movie freak my whole life, I'll, absolutely love films and I got to go to a movie premiers. I would often trying sneak past. I would also like it to sneak around the line. I don't want I'd, really don't like taking pictures. It makes
intensely uncomfortable in front a cameras, but I just I don't wanna go movie premiers! That's like so much fun me. My friends would go with party. We meet hot girls like what else you want to do. It's like I'm just like a normal all american boy. I just want to meet girls. It seem like the great idea, the girls you not all sudden, when you're tv in your movie screen turning to windows and set a walls. You know like that. You can walk right through that's really cool but like act, I don't like taking pictures. I just you know the problem. Is people don't want you to pick and choose, but in life we pick the things we like and do them and we try and avoid the things we don't like if, if their acquired as part of our responsibilities, we do them, like everybody, has a grown up. You do the things that irresponsibility demands that you do. I like going to movies, meares and seen movies before they came out that that that was really could still think. That's really cool. I hate the photo.
I still can't stand it. I feel so stupid those the urals. What say you're going through this whole thing with fame cause you're album, took off and some crazy way, and then at least I think you're dating at least one of the friends stars as that shows becoming, even eager phenomenon, then you're album, like forty million people, are watching that it's a u you're watching it. That lends too, and that leads to the latter. What was in the second album? That's weird, though, because I, when I met Jan she came with some. We had some mutual friends and she came to a show. One is that before were court records for years we played viper inches, and so what I'm, because it was a great place to work on new songs and plan for audiences and was where I worked anyway. So my friends broad agenda the concert and they told me that she had a huge crush on me
and they told her that I had a huge crush on her and like anybody with egos? What do you like more than someone like you? I mean rang like while I'm so he knows the fact is. I had never even seen friends, I guess I've been. the road for a year and a half billion one thing you don't see on tourists, primetime, so I'd, never seen friends. I had no idea. I had asked Jane to give me a videotape should give me a box videotapes with the first season. I had never seen it, but she was beautiful and really nice. You know, but I gotta tell you when I met her I'd, never seen the show and I'd. Nor did she was she just really pretty really funny really cool, I mean it. You seem like. Why would I do not want to data girl like that? It just seemed like a great idea: right, but God people got really pissed off about that stuff. Inferred like a good decade after that we really angry at midnight is no date any new posts, MAGIC Johnson the latter premarital sex god I reached, we had a big stick up our ass in the Middle EAST. I didn't we
review of a record or concert for ten years. The talk at all about the record or the concert there are just like this guy's fucking, her fuck him he's complaining about shit, he's whining, but he's fucking. Her fuck him, you don't, I was like what am I gonna do. Should I Should I just my life, because everybody else, the fucking Idiot, you know, like I've, lived my life and its really having taken a toll on our career that sucks, but and I want to do- I mean I've got over the axis. You first move Hollywood. Everybody wants to date, you it's like a yeah you're gonna. Do it? it's like. I was a single guy. I've been Chai person, my whole life, be most beautiful. Girls and world arrived at my door Will you also? I almost feel like you had too many good songs and now that we had twenty eight years to kind of digest them and put them in place there's something I've Segundo couple people cause. I was Danica BO peep my work with We're coming on and they were just like God. Then
It had so many good songs and I think sometimes there's a take for granted. When that happens, with musicians with directors with actors- whatever we just gonna get used to it as MRS Potter's all by think. That's the best song you guys ever did like start to finish lyrically musical. Its longer, obviously but more into it, but by the time, album came out. I just feel like that. I was so high for you guys and that that song, I don't feel like, has got its just do. I want to think that, especially that record, which is maybe the bay my favorite recording waterways, he had a wife. everybody wants to play in concert, everybody wants to play potter's they wanna play with. I was a girl. They wanna play high life. I just for what, Reason within the band those songs, the ban is obsessed with playing. Is this? Is there some weird and complicated, I'm united? I read a review. I've read a few views of this stuff for this record and for the
record, whereas despite the new record yea and offered a new record, and I come up immunities where people have said well, I ve never made a bad record, that's weird after all these years, or was it feel, like you, written so many songs that are all good and in half a minute for a minute. I thought wow so weird to me that, like nobody thought so at the time you know there's a part of me that feels like yeah this desert, like totally unappreciated and because I think we are sort of a joke for lawyers to people and a bit dismissed but I said, is what the one that the longer the other day in the truth is that bother me like crazy in between records Owen records are getting reviewed. but you go to make a record. You go to make a record. You don't think about any of that stuff. You write the songs because you feel some stuff. You record them at the best records you can. Every single one of our record is perfect to me exactly what the people like him or not, they're, exactly what I want them to be. I'm not one of those guys going to
have a conversation with you about what what he wishes would have been better cuz. I don't feel that way about them. I feel like they're, perfect jams, and I guess the thing that always occurred to me was it I'm going to make these things make them everything I want them to be, and they're gonna be perfect, and that means that there still there for people to discover later so people didn't like him at the time already thought we were joke at a time. Well, you know what this desert life is still there. You can find it if he thought if somebody told you that it was ridiculous that I was whining about, while fucking famous chicks, plenty about famous lane and recovering satellites is still there man you could just behind it and it and it's gonna always be there, and so for me, that kind of was what got me through all that times like there's nothing I can do about You gonna live your life. I'm not gonna live my life to satisfy all these other people and I'm not gonna. Like change. My behavior got civil funny. They set about meek, as, like I've never been to the Grammy's. I could give a flying fuck about the interview
I went once because I want to see our simply. I've never been doing a war Joe except the Oscars that year cause. I wanted an Oscar. My parents would have been great on their mantle young. You know like, but that's tough doesn't mean shit to me. I've never been concerned with that stuff. Even care. We played the rock or Hoffman, not sure I'd go if we were nominated, because at the time it was magic to be it we're having now im, not sure if it means anything after lifetime in music, I realize work shows don't mean shit. Might my friends who are musicians? Who love my music, who told me that I affected their music when Chris corroborate, who is one of my best friends, now told me that. that he his career so much based on like hearing my music that means a lot to me. If he's genius, I love that guy, you know in but the only a few years, something that draw you but based on relating to areas out about. I think, if you look at the bands,
that non grunge bands and non smashing pumpkins Nirvana the non hip, hop acts. But you look at the the bands in the artist I came out somewhere that ninety one. Ninety five ranch, which I think is the best stretch of music in my lifetime. I wasn't there for the sixtys, but you look at it. Pops exploding wraps explode, Haven't you ever these growing rock stuff? worthy aims? Are more open, I'm just saying it's, my personal favorite, I'm a writer. I love the most, but I would say added like the cranberries, a Matthews ten thousand maniacs? Are they all these other that kind of gross profits for them. It seems like the cannon crows music has endured the most now there were two thousand twenty one in which reared is ours China of its Billy shouted a documentary a few years ago and they didn't wonder, but I think he's like the ants
Jared version of what happened to counting crows, where I would say that kind of crazy. No, no! It's kind of Chris, the Billy Joel from seventy six. Two hundred and eighty he's They successful right, he's, ruling out mba arenas by himself he's gonna, get it he's playing a piano for a twenty thousand people here. number one albums year after year after year, it's basically him out and John the owing to people like this and he's take shit, the whole time, which leads the glass as is right but now point, five, thirty years later arising, Billy Joy, Fatima, that guy he's transcended these generations and then that stuff banners, but it it solely bothersome and what you not talk about it like you eventually stop playing music. As he's a guy, I feel, like
I have no arrested gum as good as a member going to the animal did is anyway. I am absolutely certain you're right about that about how if he feels about it too, I was out there Roccanera Hall of Fame when he got inducted and also it was the same night. The Mccartney got infected and Springsteen, and these threatening with ease- band and he was having a really hard time. That night, I think, and so was Macartney because it was like either right after or the you're out of earthly, have Linda dying and he was kind of wrecked, and I also think both of them were very hurt by the way the music businesses treated them Macartney, unlike relationship Lenin, making it even as a seller artist years after Lenin did because Lenin was the cool one Macartney with smoke, somehow in people's minds, the sell out or something and and Billy Jaw, for what exactly what you described, but he went through, and I was around both them later. That night,
talking to them and they both had clearly had a hard time there. It was relief in waterways, more than just the joy of it. You know they were struggling because look music is like, unlike any other artful it's our personal cool, we literally where it on her shirts you now we define ourselves by the gang of people. We lie machinery like we're cool there, not cool because they listen to that. There's something about music. That is more personal to everybody than other art forms are, and you know that as a result of that, we're always kind of redefining everybody cause. You know when you discovering a banned, it feels so cool to love them and be the one discovering them when you have to go to work and share them with a douche bag at the watercolor who likes all that other ship music. You can't stand, you know it suddenly. It's like a fat man and I want to be in a club with this guy a lightning.
club, nonstop and club with you. You know that people are human and there, like that, and its critics or human critics men were all music geeks. You know that some of us grubbing, music, gigs both musicians and critics musicians, don't grow up to be jocks in the same way that critics do so Times critics grub like talk shit like like they didn't get to do it in high school and now they want to bully and talk shit. It's something that happens. You know it's like. You can it's about it all day but human nature, and why should these groups of humans be different from other groups, humans, you know it. You know the career has that you really did something. I did this debt Gus rebelling jaw when, as the years passed, different songs, you did become one way more popular than they were in the moment. You know Billy, Oleg, Vienna and Summer Harlem follows. I think retroactively became too of everybody's favor.
signs that he did especially Beata. Those were not like the head start from seven days. You now and then years, in years later, as people are discovering his library, those are the ones that gravitated two hours that that part of the process is. This thing, I'm sure it's happy with your music to like my daughter's favorite song of yours is Missus Bardell by she thinks sets. She couldn't believe that was the biggest state you bad. I was again it is the way put out Ozma. It was Mister Jones, which I think Two Johns by the way is now underrated, but in the moment, Mister Jones it's gonna be the biggest song you ever damages was ya mean that stuff you know it is. Are you play contents, its? It is, MRS Potter's that they respond to it. It is MRS Potter's that people have a deep or Anna begins. Now, Mister Jones. Nothing isn't it doesn't get a big thing. What people have these real emotional attachments things, but also because they still belong to them? Those songs they didn't have to share them with everybody like they're still so they're still spent.
They have that, like the memory that you share of that moment with that song, whatever touchstone for you that it is still very much yours, you know it because that stuff is there, there's plenty music. Is that way for me to you now again? Yes, it's a weird it's hard to live with people ridiculing things that are most important more important than anything in the world. But look you can either, crumble under the outer, not I'm a musician. I want to play music. I wonder right songs, it matters to me. I may have taken a few years away from make records, but though it's like, Was go its own way. You took seven years off here will not from playing now. We will touring every year we toward for decades debate when we finally took two dozen nineteen off and which, by the way, just bad timing, because that's wrong here, take it- but a means. Twenty twenty one now and elevator boots is a hit on the radio and, like I have done more press already, for this record
and I have done in- I don't know how many years like I can't remember, which record I did this much press on. It's been a real, a really long time, though so we're not ideal. Others need ends up at this point you like, if you do last thirty years, which, by the way you won't it never happens, is that you and I a legacy bandy plays greatest hits concerts. What are you gonna do with this last Alan? Now we never we ve been annoying. I move infuriated our fans by not playing greatest it's every concert, but change in freedom Every night we ve been operating like an unknown independent ban since ninety ninety three- way. That is ludicrous, What I ve been to make his criticism of the red that yes, you change. Change even how you sing the songs in concert, people can't join in when they're saying with you, because you're goin on string and add a word or a phrase or whatever their way we're trying to sit with you buddy I, they are doing your dining. My own naval, arranged in my own shit like you would not believe, but, like I'm not interested in being the corner for, fell out, and we know
have been. We ve been doing our look we made covers album of years ago. It's gotta, be them was stupidly. Obscure covers album ever made, There's like one song on anybody, would even now maybe two million other faces. There's two other there's one. You know when it's like We ve always been that way. We are always off do in our own thinkers. That's what we want to do. You know like you, some ten million records with Tee Barnett. They do not. Want you to go. Find Gill Norton because you like the pixies, they do not care about the pixies we so you got number one record with that. They don't want you find in the guys that did Spargo horse, because Europe's S sparklers that's your problem. They want you to fucking, make after Augustine everything after after after after but right now, we ve always done our own thing. I feel really clean after all these years, because so I played elevator boots for my daughter, were driving to soccer game and then my case check out this song. It's just came out didn't say it was kind of crows, so she's listening she's like she's, really good
sounds like the counting crows my dad does so she hears all the song and then she was so who was it? I was like it's kind of crows she's like what you told me they were making it. She couldn't believe it and we both thought it sounded like it could have come out. I don't know twenty years ago, it's really did sound like you guys, like a hundred percent, you didn't sound. There was no age, it just sounded like you guys have missed a beat, which I think, as you said like when you head start heading toward the end of the third decade your voice, you don't usually voices change, sounds change. It just end up being kind of the replica of yourself, but it's not you, but this act. I beg you want me my voice, I am older and it doesn't have the range it used to have, but I think I'm a better singer now that I was at the beginning, but I don't have the full high range I do. Sometimes we have to move songs down a bit because otherwise I don't plan, but
What's it like a good songs with eyes, did you have to change our like another horse? Dreamers blues is too high. I could sing have you seen you lately angel? The sounds is, but it's a lot harder to sing them and I realize we weren't doing them. Can I really miss playing angels of Sciences and it just that it was it so loud that thing in it that high would really wrecked my voice during concerts, so we just move down and then we could play like we played at almost every show in the last year We just we got into play. Nato's of science is in a way we had in years because it had been just wiping out my voice during shows playing it, and once we lowered it out, you can do it's easier. It's no problem, so it's kind of because, like I want somebody song we really We weren't playing them, made him a leisure to play in the other. a few more of an item which means the Ark is on that actually playing what we're doing themselves.
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since there are you, writing ones, and its lyrics that your leg. This is something I want to put. This Wait for later. Are you sit, not read the whole song a once a cat? What's the process as a whole is written in one night. One evening is long evening, but I had they took out a screening of a movie called: is Robert Town directed at its Billy crude up in her about Steve The road hid who's. The route that limit set without me live can also yeah yeah and above them a rate movie, it's much better than the other movie about his lawyer. It's really well made many Robert town directed in road. I love her down yet of great movie and I just had such a crush on the girl in them. It's really not Monaco hotter yet and warn them. Make we're making this desert life and I'm I'm writing. I wrote half that record while we're in studio, and I would just like south fertile while we're recording. I couldn't stop ready songs, but I would think
about this thing. I do like falling in love with fictional things, people on screens who are actually those people. It's so bizarre at you know, but it's a really interesting thing and is definitely been something that, like has been a habit for me like I really do get caught up. What's up, the committee's report. I get caught up in falling in love with them, like those are those actual people on their not you know, and we are working on the record and. that the piano is in a little. You know it's in a house up in, like he's Hollywood hills the powers in a little remedy, sealed off from the other things we built this room, so it's a semi, sound proof so that I could work in their when other people are working and other on other instruments in electric cars not bothered by the sound of a piano. So I just can't I came up with this grew and I started working on the song and I got like maybe the first
first an occurrence and I loved it was so good, so catchy and the guys it's probably like seven o clock at night and the guys go out to dinner and, unlike I'm not going anywhere, I gonna be here and you got at the piano or on under the panic. As I had the habit back then and like I climb onto piano? What am I got that one of the tuna, my head novel, sit under the piano with the pad and be writing lyrics and saying to myself mental get back up and play them to make sure they work someone down the piano under the piano and then the guys come back and they're back to recording and I'm like yeah going to stay in here working on this ticket done, recording it's one of my best friends birthdays that man has a birthday party, the whole band.
the party, unlike our meeting as their later so because you feel like you're close at that point, that you can just still going and writing verse after verse. Adverse I mean it's gotta about eight verses in it grouped in pairs of two, I think, is what this house on work rent, but I probably wrote about twelve verses and then in a range of and cut them whatever hot. What have I did get it? I don't think I wrote him exactly in order, but I keep working out. They come back The part I never make the party I can tell him. I was on my way, never make the party they come back one or two in the morning. I'm still there they I'll go to beg the house. Half the guys are living in it. I have my own place in ITALY at that point, so I dont the House, but I'm still there until about three in the morning when I finish the song, you Know- and it's like to really good. I know it's really good and I could tell you it's so good, its eight along which is a problem because it probably should be a single cause. It's so catchy, but anyway we go back, get on with, according to record a show to the guy's everybody
therefore an outcome which recorded, but at this point is just that: it's just the lyrics the voice and the piano you again and put in the other stuff, India yeah. So a few weeks passed workin on some other stuff. We finish what our work on we're: getting ready to record Misis poppers low by it's gonna, be like with like a Friday, we're gonna do it. On Monday night, we'll start at Monday night, unrecorded we spend the day Monday getting sounds. I get a phone call from my best friend, my friend gin, and she tells me that she's movie producer and she tells she's a girl that got hit by a car she's lungs members about her home in the hospital with her when she was hit by a car, and she tells me that she's working on a movie interested in talking about apart for this woman and this agent wants her knees, Monica Potter they get to talking about it, and she tells us really funny. My best friend just wrote this song about her. It's really good! You, like you, got you're kidding me. I gotta tell Monica kind, tell Monica and the girls she says yes, so they call it the money
Monica is so flipped out you the huge cantankerous man. They want to have dinner. That night now wait. So you didn't know she was kind and Kroes fan you just like there from the movie. I know anything about nothing, wow, ok from Cleveland a good way to get a better ready, ready. Eight minutes on about her, I mean I knew I was really good friends Billy Credit, because my other best friend who have known since nineteen eighty, something is Mary. Louise Parker we'd network there in Berkeley were kids. Who is no at that point. Living with Billy can Yorks, but I've never had a chance to bring it up and it was an alibi for water brought it up. It's just so weird, it's weird, not that I do that sort of thing I mean to Blake, inform my friends of fish, but so I end up going to dinner within that night. No, it's something. We take a dinner break from the studio. I go down to this restaurant in Hollywood and then it's me. The girl, like I want, have dinner with me, but I want to go alone that neither do I know it's like me and my friend Jan her in her agent or manager, one of the two ever that when the list
And we all have dinner together and we talk about midway, their dinner Monica. Finally, ok, I gotta I gotta get asked what what did you have a son- and I said: well, I'm not really a song about you, son about me, but you're like a part of it, because it's about like it began from this idea of me You know how to crush on girls in movies, and I saw without we talk about it for the wash, because I mean I can't wait to hear it sometimes as well. This is gonna seem weird, but were actually recording it too, we ve been doing, sounds already working. Carry me we're about to start recording the song clearly its right. Neither can I couldn't go far out in the middle of working down the hill to the restaurants, basically the bottom, the hill, where we're recording. So, unlike we're in this house, if you guys wanna come up, you can
I saw her in her manager and Jan they alchemical House, locking the door in the good guys. This is actually Monica Potter and we start playing. We play the first version of the song and taken a break to see a sound one going studio, she's gone they like, whereas it might produce as she ran up the backdoor, go back there she's like happening tears. She just gone through a divorce law before that, I don't think anyone and actually spoken nicely to earn a little while and this is why well me so she she listened to it a couple more time than she asked if she can come in the piano room where I am, instead of being in the control room and be there, so she sits get her headphones. She's, like sitting on the piano back next to me and plans on the last report, it may be seven or eight times and its killer and we have to stop for the night. It's really really good and I and out Ella LAW that I see market
a couple days later we end up starting starting today and I I was going to say if you didn't at least go on two dates with her after this then died. That would have been the all time bill. Buckner, three, eggs moment, I know its not barrier about man. I was heartbreak whereas believing it urgently for thirty five years as a kid who also within Bosnia, the kid it was like now so anyway, moving beyond that, I don't want to think about that fucking precise about the area of guests, so we start dating and she lives like further out in the valley like passwords Van eyes and like after work, I'll come and go out there. Some night hang out with her and so to weeks passed and we ve spent those two weeks diligently ruining the sun and
mean ruining the son? You can get a tunnel vision when you're working on something and you got the wrong road and something which was amazing. I mean it was so good that night and it's all was playing life, but we ve been over dubbing for two weeks now, and the song is the biggest piece of steaming shit you have ever. nearly spoken terrible, am frustrated. Angry honour, what's happened either. I just it was so good and now its utter shit. What the problem is by go out, demonic S, House Jake. How are you like? I'm just really burned out she's like what's wrong the song? It's terrible. She does not sons great now, it's fuckin terrible Monica should not fucking great like magic. I just have two studio: it's fuckin terrible. She does not just heard it. It's fucking great movement. You heard
sure, I got Cosette of it. What what is it? She has Means Cosette sure, no one I was leaving that night, you're you're producer gave it to me it's as MRS Potter's lullaby take for just t k for. Like oh look here. She plays it for me back awesome. It's so good, and I said so that so you knew how to fix this Unc. I said I I just got a bar this Cosette because you gotta bring it back. Unlike what I've got about will bring it back, but I gotta borrow it. I'm going to work and extend like your biggest nobody stop what you're doing come in the control room. Listen, I play. It is like oftener, Michael what the fuck is this I go take for we got we just gotta like be really careful. Now we're start just what
we're working off of forget that we're going back to take for the drums and keyboards are fine. So it's almost like a writer just being like. I just went sideways just to dump. In the last twenty pages I wrote and am starting over four page eight yeah. I mean it's kind of what you sometimes It's it's easy in the studio too, like lose your focus and get tunnel day. and like not, you can lose the big picture. It's why for years, We want to work in, recording studio only worked houses because I didn't want to being one of the places where it felt like we had to be perfect and right can that's it. We're doing we missed What does all by we're getting it right and it was dead and blame. It was just limp, but it had been perfect and all we did was go back and be really. Really careful this time about whenever we are doing wrong. Just go back to this. This is really an end was empty and that's what you heard it does take for with the items there still some overlaps, but
We didn't fuck it up the second, so how long she lasted Monica. How many dates? Oh I did. I we dated four like me, a few more maybe another. While a great story, fur push you build their confidence. Backup ya mean we're still friends, I state friends with her forever. You know like a wheel, for years and years we play Cleveland, she would come out with a whole family, a great, and I just it came up something the other day, and so I sent her a note on on Instagram or something's at age. How are you I just saw this thing you did, and so we just talk to dislike the month ago, maybe and she's seems like she's great she's happy should agree. Just a little crazy but they're all crazy enough, but she's a greater, but you knew that with actresses. At that point you have, but I mean like they're so cute, what you get I had someone when, as workers MAGIC Johnson in jail- and I would always ask questions about the eighties- and you
they weren't give us some lessons in his. I don't they actresses TAT was like what his first look at the Hague. is it there is about what what they're doing were there? their next thing is their career. They get their gone for this addition issues them them them that damn it. If you're famous person you're you, you know you also kind of narcissistic about your career to in its document. You know it's it's very hard to find. When it's it's a lot, you got a deal with a life where Europe is so different from what I do like you're, rejected or approved of everyday, especially for a woman who has a brief window and then you're too old yeah, but like there's so much rejection, some judgment for how? What how able you aren't you pretend to be someone else. Then it can be hard to figure out who you are for accessing. Being actors is a tough tough life and I got him before it would seem
have you any have talked about it- seems I you're in a really good place. Last couple years e, it's this site, the most star gregarious outward uncomfortable comfortable. You are, with this whole thing about being a public figure just talking about yourself, why I have been in a really good relationship. I think I've changed a lot over the years and I've been a really good relations and for four years now, with someone who is really bring and a great writer and was ample. when I met her and has recently in going back to school again, has discovered that she loves actually does like. Are you fucking hitting me Jeddak she's, only one for seven years, a place you wanna addition for it was probably gonna, be all remote, because that is just last year. This happened because, because the pandemic sheeted there's two of our different for Sarah rules, you really see and
the party reticent. Now the first thing should ever addition foreigner to highlight four things: everyone to do a snack to forget the lead role and she is good at it, but I would like you gotta, be fucking kidding me. I kick this habit if you weren't so fucking cool, I would jump you have put, but she is you know, and I have been different like I learned a lot about how to grown up from staying in a relationship for once the kind of career you had to happen now that Tik Tok era. yeah, I mean I don't see why? Because here's the thing it wasn't tik tok them, but it was other things. There's always a thing that a lot of pressure with, if you wanted to feel it, but people telling you how you should be you, what kind of record you should meet what kind of records you should make. Now that you had a hit record, you know there was always been that and it's been hard, but like it's always the same thing, you can listen to all that shit or you can be you. You know people have more power than they think they do in the intern,
business, you can always say. No, I'm gonna tell you what the consequences are and there will be real consequences, but you B. You can do your own thing and we are huge fight at the beginning of our clearly saturnine life. They were great Amazon and they made our career. They really did, but we made an agreement on some things, they changed. Everything the weaker they're doing show without on what songs, you're gonna play. What sums were play, what ordinary underplay the men, whether Reuben added the songs, all these things we all agreed on ahead of time- they changed all of it and I would not bend, and I really thought that it was. I knew it was important that the first thing the world from us was round here and I don't want to be editing and buy. It agreed to play the show because they agree to us play around here and they made up,
risks we played around here on that show and our record, which was in the top twenty five jumped forty spots weak and it established us. Mister Jones was a catchy song but round here said what we were and it made our career without Saturn live. We would never have a career, and it took me on the day of the show, threatening like hey, I'm the leaf, yeah. Don't you not tell me what to do? I'm reflecting leagues, we are in agreement and you're not doing it. I've got a punishment I mean we owe them everything we do. We owe them everything. and maybe I was wrong- the stubborn asshole, but I thought it was important. Now there are consequences they they made our career. They ve never had us back and they probably will never have a back, and I told her respect their right to do that, because I was a dick and I refuse to back down, and I was terrified who the fuck says no to and be they in the really
most influential shell from forget. The comedy, but that nobody has done more for musicians than that show Hunter Brig no end, and I, like I said I will without a doubt I think they made our career, but they decided never have zone again, and you know: ok, I've learned Eve. You can say no, if you think something's important you do what you think is right. You gotta pay the consequences, but you know it is possible to stand up for yourself in just a lot of people. It scared because it so hard to get a job play music and support yourself that when someone threatens you, as you, whether it's a tv studio or Iraq, a company that they know what you need to do and if you're not gonna, do that. While you may be a failure and it's all your fault shit, you Jerry you're pretty acquire undisturbed by French, but you know how you feel you up for yourself in some sort of internal compass and what you think is the right thing to do there's a lot of mediocre people that can Syria in the wrong direction, and then you can't get it back
and I know like whose hard for me to hear about how we were a mainstream, sell out ban lot, always when I knew that we hadn't back down are bent for anybody, You know like we had millions of dollars offered to us from the rather companies we went to Gaffin for fifteen thousand dollars advance each of us. We took three not each of us three thousand dollars each on our first record because they gave us a higher royalty, loudest gonna believe in ourselves, and they gave us complete. Creative control were- and I was ruthless about that, but they get we paid it all the money in the world for that, but you know I knew how we handled our career so to read this shit about other people are saying about how we like some kind of salad, so I got fuck you, man, You don't see me shown up the MTV awards kiss nobody's ass like I've. I won't play music. You know something about their lives and I think wide such an important pop culture document it catches.
the guest house, any musician at this kind of Fifth point of their career right leg, with that, like France than some living Rodrigo, was aunt Theresa, She has a new album coming out. She's like for me, daughters generation, the most important person renown and gather the exact wheat. That's happened, and then thirty years later to be, like all of that was the oliviarodrigo week so like when you were on Sarah live there catching you at that moment. Right specific and sometimes it'll be a ban that it was the one time happen, and then they disappeared, never thought about em again other times at the beginning of something which happen. You know most famous they would and Pearl jam where it was like when they went on their shows, then they came back the second time they were at a different point. Their careers there were like these established, but he s the first time. It was like we're here
which I think is a really it's, though one of the things that is made that shall stand out one because their brave about it to improper, like I said when they had us on that, show we weren't, even in the top drawer I mean not even our record haven't even charted yet who I knew where to thirteen they they do actually keep those numbers yeah, but those numbers. Count because we are members, we're like abandoned, didn't exist and they put us on Saturday at Lahti, good taste back to whom is the fastest. It was supposed to be Tom Hanks, but somebody to say this. It is ludicrous somebody in his organization or just him realise that maybe the we thoroughly thing Philadelphia Saturday. I wasn't way to promote that movie. So at the last minute he d doubt and Sarah Gilbert did it and she was great she's real issues, cool for then? But it was supposed to be Tom Hanks, but I I mean it's there. Actually right. Maybe not Philadelphia. That would have been alone. well, what am I? What advice? Would you get to like a young?
songwriter young musician, somebody who's in their teens who is looking at Tik. Tok are aware. And thinking like I've, gotta do dances and the cat as somebody learn how to write a song is just listening to you know. Bans that day and musicians that they want to emulate. Is there something deeper gonna? Do they have to forced themselves to rate forty minutes a day would have isoude? You get listened all the great music that you love me study it, but also realise that at some point it's gotta come down to I mean why they started, how hard people worked, people that are really really count and look how much they demanded of themselves how they didn't. Take it easy. These are the right, the easy rhyme how much they made themselves work, but at some point it always has to be you sitting
Yourself in a room humming, a melody that sounds great to you in writing, something about yourself that you really feel you know that can be. It can be about how you, like a beat. You know, genes, railroads and song they're, just about get up on the good for them. the best songs ever written, because he's really means it doesn't have to be along in depth. You know it doesn't have to be like Jackson, brown or mere somebody. You know it can be just get up on the good foot, which is often you haven't. It's gotta be something that seems like you just it sounds great when you on it and then like it feels great when you play it to you like more than anything else, make something. That means something to you. I don't know what kind of a voice,
to give people really cause a lot of my advice being who I wanted to be through my career. I caught a lot of shit for it. I'm not sure it pays off. Do not go to the Grammy's. Do not grow the MTV words. I didn't want to see my bullshit to me. I don't want to go, but there certain advantage to going United being on tv and being playing it being famous, but not if it doesn't feel good to you Now I know what kind of advice to give you, because the stuff I did wasn't always the best idea. I might hurt my band in a lot of ways, but I do think that the core of the most important thing is do something that means something to you. You know like fucking, do something you love and don't forget what everybody says. You know. you don't think I guess important. Why think with writing? The advice is pretty similar right, people ask me: how do I become a good writer and say what books
Reading, oh yeah should do that. You know that, but which are favourable would have been added psych, hiding come a good writer. You not reading everything. There if a million bucks a mouse you now to end endeavours, I'm not I'm. No longer writing my fingers don't work anymore, but when I did you know it was mainly As I was reading everybody I could possibly get my hands on and then China figure. What must I was out of all those people and it would seem too that being a musician is the same thing right you're not are you since all these different people, but you're taking little pieces of them and bringing them to you will at first I running songs. I bet they're pretty good. I like that. For the moment I wrote my fur song, like to me? I was a songwriter. It defined my whole life from that moment on, like I wasn't that good, but it was who I was reason to be me a reason to be alive a reason to some do and.
But after that I really want to learn more about it. You, I think I did get like the rolling stone record guide. I just go look foot through in fine five star records and go listen to them, I wanted to learn about it. I know one point I went and start at the very beginning and went to every stones record in seeing important insanely would do it. I already knew it with the bills, my parents, those records, but when I went and I read- and I read listened and I just you know. I was, of course, is the biggest influence big star. Probably again I mean, except at the beginning. I was so into the Beatles, and I was young as songwriter, probably big star and how I want to run my career here. There is a huge failure in their career, but you know I I Alex children and I loved Alex, I use a lot of people from our generation idolized him. What does it mean it was? Our lady was desired about it. Yet
That's why. Why said the eighties cares. For me it was the birth, a hip, hop and all the Indy Rock and AIDS that was really like. Although if you really asked me, I will tell you that music has never changed. Its always great and always has been. Cement is harder to find like right now there is more good music right now and there has ever been before him. It there's never been a time anywhere close to right now, because I used to have direct contact with this. expensive to go into the studio, and you really had to have on because it was impossible to distribute records, printing subsidies and getting a truck taken. Some fuckin, store and doin It was impossible to think about labels. Will our generation in category around the same age. By like when I started by cities. Eighty four. Eighty five I was really only like fifteen years of music. They even drop on right and even some of the stuff in the early seventies. I wasn't crazy about, and now I look at my daughter's generation we're basically fifty year-
the popular music that holds up their stones albums from the late sixties that are still good now you know, and there are so many different directions- it's gone and am envious of that with them we are the best up. Never gonna, stop being good, but also like their generation has, since everyone is free to do it in their bedroom. Now, with the computer and all you have to do to distribute record is uploaded to ban camp. It means that its available it's it's hard to find, but it's all out there you want, but the time and you can find you can drowning good music. I can. I can never catch up anymore. I do so much backlog of shit. I have to listen to that. I want to do that. I'm dying here, I'm a million miles behind. Well, so the albums out would elevator boots. What made you, but before we go what you read it out when we reach say: how long take you mean making it the single or just riding song, see just like that, just as an example, because that was first, when you release, but what made thou and specially
It's really the one that like it's, also the one that made the sweet a sweet because I wrote the tallgrass was the first son had written in five six on how many years- and I was playing it back for myself the next day and Translate it was done was messing around with the ending sing those lines on a wide and away over this cords. I changed the cords and sang it over some different course kind of like that and I started thinking. Maybe this is a longer song, maybe like Palisades Park. Where has different movements and then the music I changed you I sang this line. Bobby was a kid from round the town over that and I thought oh, no, it's not a longer some. This is a different story. Also. I thought what if I wrote, a series of songs were the end of
the beginning of the next and that got me excited about playing music again. The first time it made me really want to make a record. What do I think? Two of the songs like Bobby in the rat kings and elevator boots are very much about my relationship with music, which is probably been the most important thing in my life, both as a kid who grew up, and it was his comfort, his joys solace, like music fest with and also because of a certain point. I began making it myself and I think the elevator boots is about my relationship with it. As a guy who plays and Bobby in the raccoons is about how I feel about as a guy who loves music and has been a fan of band and as for whom other bands are a touch tone and they provide the emotion contract. So much of my life, I think those two songs really. You know I in some ways. Maybe this record is about revitalizing my interest in something it has always been the central thing in my life and I was kind of taking a break from forbid. You know,
Carson, while I think, lumber, maybe maybe abrading something again. Who knows if you could make a come back? Maybe maybe maybe it's a come back here and there it was great. spend all this time with you really appreciate at it, and it's been awesome toward your career and fought over the last almost three decades. Now they still early preacher, Really that's over the past one more comment on Thursday: if you like had it grows? I did a play less than Spotify about put it on my escape stories. Spic, I thirty three salad, Instagram Feed, mostly post. For me, there had been a banner, then lay a little bit on the social media all over the place, but I still post the instagram from time to time and us
if you really want a good instagram feed, she got the Murph. Thirty three are puppies, just where we post pictures of our puppy who's, not a puppy anymore. He's a gigantic man he's a seven month old man and it's it's been fun to post. We all take turns posted photos of that one too, because he check that out. If you got that citizens, let I'll be back on Thursday with more see them.
Transcript generated on 2021-07-15.