Next year. Business wars is going even bigger. Starting January fifth will bringing you knew longer episodes every Wednesday with even more inside stories. On the most outrageous and intense corporate rivalries of all time, a business wars every Wednesday starting January Fifth, on apple podcast. on music, the wonder: YAP join one, We to listen. A business war is one we eagerly and ad free and the wondering app down the wondering app and your apple or Google play Mobile appstore today. wondering. This episode originally aired in twenty nineteen. its summer in eighteen, sixty five and in the conference inside the windowless headquarters of the Hershey Chocolate company. New CEO, Harold Mahler, has news for his top team executive stare at their stocky leader with his neat

toward hair. He looks worried got a letter from Mars this morning. We are starting to their own chocolate and we'll stop using hours over the next few years. The executives are stunned. Why would I do that? That's crazy, it'll be more expense. for them to make chocolate then to buy it from us another executive nods and agreement It'll cost him walk around twenty million just start production. They will reach who bat investment for years. But what Her sheeting doesn't get. Is Forest Mars isn't thinking about next year, or even the next by them. Companies head honcho is Thinking long term for first also knows that he can launch an all out attack on Hershey if he depends on them for chocolate, but there's another more immediate reason to do it to Molly and to her she's chief accountant. how much will losing Mars business cost us we're like

At losing ten, maybe twenty percent of our annual revenue, the executives gasp They knew Mars was a big customer, but they ways thought Mars needed them more than they needed Mars. Modern tries to stay positive. Maybe this is a good thing. Supplying other companies with chocolate, is a distraction and stops us focusing on the consumer market. Maybe this is the push we need to wind down that side of the business, but the truth is monitors. Deeply worried since forests took charge last Christmas, Mars has gone, dark, no longer attends trade shows, it doesn't speak to the press and its withdrawn the National Confectioners Association MA doesn't know what forests up too, but he it has got. It can't be good for the first time ever,

or she chocolate company feels vulnerable. As a sort of founder or entrepreneur. You know what it's like running your business from your inbox, whether your tracking, so Old spawned, raising, hiring or support our sponsor straw is a crm that will help you stay on top of all your processes directly and my gmail check. Your emails have been open. Send bulk emails with automated follow up emails to improve your response right. You can even you street pipelines to track all your processes directly from Gmail. Try out street today, it's free to use on your own or use the pro plan, with your team get twenty percent off your first year of their pro plan, their most popular option by going to streak dot com, slash, be W. That's s, t r e, F, K, dot com, slash be double

for twenty percent off business. Wars is supported by agone. Again. Is the payments platform bill to help your business grow with again, you can Shep payments in an online in store touch, free and beyond, and again technology adapts to any business or industry or shopper journey from retail and market places to subscriptions and mobile payments. You can do any of it or all of it. You'll get flexible features that bid your business with a single integration, you'll even get revenue, immigration and customer insight in an all one solution. So keep your customers happy in your business growing with agone business. Not boundaries visit agone dot com to learn more! That's a d! Why e en dot com.

From wondering I'm David Brown, and this is business. On the last episode Forest Mars to control of Mars and United, it with eminent and his european candy business food manufacturers now he's out wrench America's Candy bars crown from Hershey. This is episode for Mars attacks, its Eighteen sixty five and there's a new face, wandering the corridors of the Hershey Chocolate Company, his name

John Raleigh and he's just in hired to lead the marketing department at apartment that so far consists of just him he's the company's first ever head of more in her. She, CEO, YO, Harold, Mahler, brought Raleigh End help fend off the threat from Mars, but first Ronnie how to build a marketing department from scratch, and to do that, he needs information Raleigh heads into the office of a sales manager. the salesman has been with her she for decades and is nearing retirement. hey there, I'm John Raleigh, the new head of marketing. The salesman looks puzzle getting. What's that Raleigh size almost everyone in her. She asks him the same question it's about in product price, packaging and promotion to get people buying our chocolate We do that already not really

put it another way. You sell candy bars into stores right. Well, my job, The job of marketing is to get those candy bars into people shopping baskets and out of the stores. like an easy job market, excel themselves: anyway, I'm after a copy of this year's sales targets. You have them. The salesman grants that's easy enough to say spends around in his office chair to face the metal filing cabinet by his desk. He opened the door licks through the holders in triumphantly pulls out a sheet of yellow in paper. Here you are Raleigh stares at the document in disbelief. It's a one line memo that says: increase sales, four percent every year, Roddy checks the date the memos eleven years old. Is this

Clearly the latest sales target you ve got it, but I broke don't fix it right. If there's any hope of revamping this fossil of a company Raleigh knows he needs to bring in outsiders. Eighteen sixty six in Jack Dowds laying on the bed in his room at the cocoa in hotel. In her she Pennsylvania doubts. bostonian marketing executive? He used Canada, dry, ginger ale tomorrow morning, he's got an interview for a job at her. She not sure he wants to be Hershey's marketing manager, buddy intrigue by the opportunity. After all, her he's the only fortune, five hundred company without a marketing department. He picks up the phone calls home hey dear, I just checked in at the hotel. So what's it like the hotel

but the town her she you know that place we're going to move too. If you take this job, oh well, it's ridiculous! get this I'm staying at the cocoa in right and that's on the corner of her. Oh and chocolate avenues, even today St lights are shaped like her. She kisses her can't picture is here but Let's see how the interview goes. The next morning, Dowd me her ceo, Harold, Mahler for spinal interview. Mahler leans over his desk and looks down right any eyes. Job there's something you need to understand about Hershey We do not do. retiring Dowd folds his arms. I know I think, that's going to change Mahler Lee. and back in his chair and What makes you think that

why your market shares falling Mahler nods, reluctantly to you new products don't sell as well as your old ones. Yes, that's true. Three european. X or more popular with the adults who grew up eating her? She then, with children. Mahler looks away ass. True too out smiles, and that is why you're gonna start advertising. The question is, and if it's, when Dowd gets the job, His first task is to do marketing plan for every single item. Pershing cells immediately He hits a snag. The cup. Makes a multitude of products and sells them in every packaging sizes imaginable. doubt decides he

to eliminate the products they don't sell. So he asked for sales figures only to discover that her she doesn't chief, those records for individual products, up hiring market researchers from Nielson to investigate how his own companies products are selling its may. Nineteen sixty seven doubts in an oak paneled meeting room in her she headquarters, ready to hear you'll findings right away, the lead researcher drops a bomb. Shell. Jack there's a finding. I want a flag. I think this is important. We found that Hershey products or out of stock thirty percent of the time doubt, groans and puts his head in his hands for most consumer goods, Companies being out of stock, ten percent of the time would be a disaster her she's missing out on nearly a third of its potential sales, because it's not keeping can

bars flow into stores. Mars would never make that mistake, Forest Mars, expects his sales team to keep every store. The company supplies fully stocked with Snick Eminem in milky ways at all times, and when that doesn't happen, there's hell to pay its nineteen sixty seven and industry. cargo offices of Mars forests just returned from a trip to Virginia, He walks through the austere, open plan office and stops at the desk of marketing cheap bill serving Hey Bill. I would do a mom and pop store in Virginia guess what I found bill looks up before forest over he enjoy working for Mars. Now he hates it far I have no idea forest leans, closer well What I found that store bill

was not a single milky way forward glances around to make sure the rest of the offices surreptitiously listening before. Turning back to bill. The thing is bill: you're, a nice guy, a nice guy with a nice family but you're, all the dumbest son of a bitch I've ever known, you're, stupid, got to get out of here before forest can continue. A colleague interrupts its Larry Johns, the head of sales, I'm forest sailed into stores, isn't bills responsibility, it's mine forest whips, his head around to face Johns pointing an accusing finger right at Johns. Well, case. I should buyer, you was well Forest, doesn't carry out his threat, but I can see the writing on the wall soon after he resigned,

he's got a new job head of sales at Hershey, is nineteen. Sixty eight in Johns is in Arkansas sitting the passenger seat of a Hershey sales Rep Spore Galaxy he's the day shadowing the rep to get a better understanding of how her she sailed. Operation works on the ground curious, because he knows from his time and Mars her. She salespeople are rarely seen in the field, so rarely that it Mars people joke. They were like Bigfoot rumoured to exist, but there's no proof the salesman parks and retrieves, a creative Herschel Candy bars from the back seat? genes follows: is he heads toward the nearby Ain T but to John Surprise the sails breezes right past, the supermarket. Instead, he into a small convenience store, and so then his credit candy after me

the store Johns turns to the salesman waiting. go to the Asian P. There's no point: they buy everything centrally sure. But you make sure our products are in a good spot inside the store, in fact, less do that right now they enter the supermarket and start hunting for chocolate, They quickly find a display of Mars candy bars and a prime spot, but there's gotta she bar inside the venture the near the back right by the Kitty litter find the Hershey bars Johns, picks one up its dusty in past it sell by date, back at headquarters, Johns tells the company press Bill Dearden what he saw down south I want these. Its people fired. They haven't a clue wonder Mars, is eating you for breakfast dared and shakes his head doing that. What it's not their fault, it's ours,

they're doing what we told them to do. We can't fire them for that as the months passed, but do marketing department uncovers were problems everywhere. They look, they see company, so behind the times could be a museum is, if Times Doc today Milton her, she died the situations about to turn critical for you. Here's Hershey's sold its candy bars for nickel, despite spiral ingredient caused Mars up. Prices years ago, but hers he's holding the line by shrinking the size of its five cent chocolate bars, but prices are still rising. Bars are now so thin. They can't get. any smaller, so Nineteen sixty nine Mahler as to the inevitable he orders the first price rise in her she's seventy five year history from five to bar to ten cents.

And the blow to consumers. He does the size of her she bars, but it's not enough Consumers have come to regard nickel Hershey bars as an enduring part of american life. The price hike sparks of backlash sales of her she bars plunge by a third suddenly her. She is in a position that would have been unthinkable just a decade ago. The companies once commanding lead over Mars, has melted away now Mars and Hershey our neck and neck in market share. Their chocolate war is balanced on a knife edge. That's tipping in favour of Mars. Mahler knows the time has come. If her she is to stay number one needs to start advertising before Mars pulls ahead.

A lot of people have ventured out into new territory over the past couple of years. Maybe You ve decided to finally start that business. You ve been dreaming about thing. Is building a successful business on line can be challenging from creating stand out online presence in building a marketing strategy to the technical running a website, or will it not to manage? But when you got wicks in your back pocket hits a piece of cake see. Wicks offers a complete business. Lucian with all the features you need to create, manage and grow online. You can build your website exactly the way you want with thousands of design features There have been created with your needs in mind, plus wicks asked long infrastructure in place, providing you with reliable, hosting and fast loading times than me. as a user you'll have faster performing websites for your customers anywhere in the world and to top it all off. You get marketing in business tools, built in to your website dashboard, making it even

easier for you to reach the right audiences, Sir, come on what are you waiting for had on over, to wit, dot, com and joint millions of people growing their business online today, future Is the new work out experience that pairs you one on one with your own fitness coach you'll, get unlimited general training? In all the support you need to stay on track. Your coach will map out a plan based on your goals, bill the work out to get you there and keep you accountable every day. I love the messages of encouragement from the coach with the chickens, tips and useful feedback, and, what's best, as my feet, work out programme revolves. One hundred percent around my own schedule- everything leans into you, so you get more actually accomplish no excuses. No time wasted, get started right now, with fifty percent off your first three months at try future dot com, Slash be w that try future dot com,

slash, be dot w. If you're working round the clock to build your dream, e commerce, business you need and e commerce, marketing platform that works his heart as you do, that means you need clear with care the you'll delight, customers and drive revenue at the same time with personal email and sms marketing campaigns that you can design and send in minute plus building a more in campaign is just a drag and drop away. You can get started with your first camp and under an hour to get started with a free trial of clay veto, visit, Clavijo, dot com, slash, listen, that's k, L, a v! I why oh dot com, slash, listen

late. Nineteen sixty nine and Hershey CEO, Harold Mothers riding the elevator in Manhattan hotel with him she's chief counselor accompany vice president they're. Here, too order transatlantic alliance again Mars, they did the elevator and enter a large sweet where the delegation from british candy giant Roundtree, Macintosh she's waiting a small sprightly scotsmen with receding hair bounds over to greet them. He's Donald Baron, the chair of Roundtree Mackintosh. The two teams sit on a pair of leather couches and barren start negotiations. We need a new. U S, licensee! For kit cat Morris's in pushing it enough. We don't on Mars because they compete with as it home we think her. She could be the right fit kick at? U S. Sales might be only two million dollars a year now, but if you promoted right

promise, it allowed sell her she's almond bear and stairs the Hershey men trying not to laugh kid cat, one of America's top candies yeah right. Mahler composes himself, Donald, I'm sorry. That was out of line, is just that. We have more modest expectations for kit cat, But we want the: U s license. We need more time, let coded bars to counter Mars over the next few hours, the teams thrash out a deal. They agreed with thirty year arrangement where her she will handle kick cat in America and pay to to Roundtree Mackintosh. But then Baron raises a concern, you dont promotes your own products. But you must advertise kid cat. Actually, you we're going to start advertising really that's great,

but I still want guaranteed advertising in the contract. A few days after getting Coquette Mahler returns to Manhattan to visit her she's new ad agency on Madison Avenue, he, there's the lobby with a spring in his step, eager to see her she's burst tv spots, the agency's creative director loads of film into a projector, the Hershey bar add he turns the lights and on the screen, kindergartners beast on her she bars as folksy tune, plays like my chin on the greater the next. The address to accuse the races, peanut butter CUP spot are keen on mixing chocolate in peanut butter. They think it's something people in the boondocks, what eight so

starting by teaching people. It's a brilliant combination on the screen to tee. I walk down the street ones, chomping chocolate bar the others devouring peanut butter right out of the tub they bump into each other. you got a butter, my chocolate really Yeah, right to greater yesterday's great together reasons, real chocolate good, dollar rises from his chair, clap. These are excellent in early nineteen, seventeen the ads hit the air Sea of her. She bars jump thirty percent. the races, peanut butter cups. Add that surprises everyone, sales, dont rise there. He explode peanut butter,

cup sales sore three hundred percent. In a matter of weeks. The once little known, races, is suddenly on the fast track to national success. Shortly after her she's first kit cat ad, air and turned the british bar into a nest. An old best seller, EVA look what I got two kids get to. What do you get chocolate bar one for me and one for you who me shore outside Delicious trapped inside of light and Krispijn crunchy? It will buy It feels like a turning point after years of decline, her she's back, but then Washington throws a curveball in August nineteen, seventy one President Richard Nixon, Claire's war. On inflation by freezing all price

in wages. It's a nightmare for Hershey, Cocoon being prices are rising fast and now the come They can't raise prices to protect its profits But Mars is in a better position. Bars are mainly nuclear cookie. It uses less chocolate sure after Nixon's announcement Mahler calls she's marketing team to his office to deliver shocking news. Weak not suffer a loss that taking money out of orphans, mouths Mahler not kidding mode of her. She stock is still owned by the Orphan School Milton her. She founded in nineteen o nine if her she and deliver profits. school, MRS out on millions in dividends, Mahler. That's the message sink in and continues so I'm ending all unnecessary expenditure. That means

no more adds, except for kid cat, because that's a contractual obligation, marketing manager, Jack Dowd leaps to his feet, You can't do that. We're making breakthroughs this Key allow a momentum, but matters not budging it's a week better and in March headquarters in Maclean Virginia Forest Mars is gathered his top executives together, her You stopped advertising this, chance. I wanted all out attack Gimme the biggest add push we ve ever done. Get our products in the best spots in every store. I don't care about the cost, do what every takes give them no quarter mode baited by potential. Bonus is worth us to a third of their annual salary mars equitable launch a bullet screen tv as for Mars, candy bars fill the airwaves Mars salespeople fan

across the nation armed with in store display materials. No, that seventy percent of candy bars are bought on impulse. They put stores into putting Mars products near cash registers. They also resort to underhand tactics they win over store managers with free boxes of candy for their kids? They sneakily relocate recent peanut butter cups too remote corners of supermarkets and the densely her she bars off the shells, the cost is huge, but Mars is a private company with no dead and deep pockets. There are no stockholders bleeding about quarterly results and there aren't any bankers poking their noses into the finances either as as forests concern any law, It is now or an investment his candy empires long term future.

With no ads or sales push from Hershey to stop its advance Mars. Steam rolls over its rival and in fall night Seen seventy three Mars shoves Hershey off its throne after seventy years on top Hershey's longer America's leading candy maker for forest. It's a victory, It's been fifty years in the making, but that does make it any less sweet more usually ignores the media, but not this time. Makes damn sure the newspapers know that Mars. Not Hershey is the new candy king, her. She is crumble fast in time's running out for it to fight back on the next episode, Mars battles Hershey on size and price Hollywood offers Hershey a helping hand and Emily

It's a real from wondering this is episode for of her she's verses Mars for business wars. If you like, our show, please give us a five star rating interview, be sure to tell your friends: follow business wars on Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon, music, the wondering snapper, wherever you're listening right now, listen, Admiral by joining wonder replies to find some links and offers from our sponsors and the episode note supporting them helps us keep offering our shows for free another, where you can Fourth, the shows by filling out a small survey at wondering, dot, com, slash survey and tell us which the stories you like to hear a quick note of recreations you ve been hearing. In most cases we can't know exactly what was said. Those scenes are dramatization but their based on historical research. I'm here.

Was David Brown. Tristan Donovan wrote this story. Karen low is our senior producer and editor edited and produced by Emily Frost, sound designed by Kyle Randal, and they area sound. Our producers Dave shilling. Our exec producers are Jenny. Lauer Beckmann and Martial Louie created or non Lopez for wondering from beginnings. Filmmaker George Lucas created one of the most successful movie franchises of all time. Star wars, revolutionise Phil, taught Hollywood the true value of merchandise and turned a niece genre into a billion dollar industry. I am Graham host of wondering show business members. We tell the truth stories of the business leaders who risk did all the critical moments that define their journey and the idea is to transform the way we live our lives, in our latest series, George Luke. defies the odds, builds an empire and want

way? One of the richest men on the planet? Listen: George Lucas, creating a Hollywood empire from business movers on apple upon casts, Amazon, music or the wonder. Yap join one replied in the wandering apt to listen ad free.