Starting to season with ESPN versus Spock Sports Business WAR, is bringing you knew longer episodes every Wednesday you can look for the even more inside stories on the most scandalous outrageous and intense corporate rivalries of all time. Listen, a business where's every Wednesday on Apple Podcast, Amazon, music or the wonder. Rehab join one replace an apple pod casts or the one to to listen. A bit. this war is early, an ad free, spring twenty fifteen LOS Angeles in the Apple PAN Diner, it's like the nineteen forties, never ended. Waiters white service caps, rush around slinging cheeseburgers, fries and hefty slice. The pie at the customers on the stool surrounding its use, shape counter

sitting in the midst of this fast food frenzy are fuck sports one boss, David Nathan, and Jamie Horwitz Horwitz is the former. ass being producer who struck ratings gold building shows around incendiary hosts like Skip Bayliss in calling Cowherd Nathan's and thinks Horwitz has what it takes to fix boxes, struggling sports network. But Hurwitz isn't sure he wants the job Nathan put down his paper wrapped Burger, Jamie Wilson What the changes you want to make a few people have as much experiences you in developing original sport programming or what Simpson soda, but our joint. Only to find people saying could you make they show slightly better when a free hand to do what I think is needed. We know what we're doing isn't working and we need to fix it. You'll get the last. to you need and you can hire whoever you need

because I want to hire more yes began. People you have people who did Weekly Fox broadcast running a twenty four seven network, two different things: even apples and oranges. It's because apples. Peter is It's been running at sports network for thirty years now by hiring more people. For me, as being I'm telling you you'll benefit from that experience. Well, look well She do that. Listen Fox, Culture is entrepreneurial. You don't need to jump through hoops. We encourage bold moves. Ok, you get to make the call. but you also get to own those calls or what like what he's hearing and their freedom Fox is promising? ok. For that. For the sake of argument, let's say I'm in my thinking is we embrace debate sports centres, fantastic, but it's in decline, and that's not flexion on the show is just that people are increasingly getting sports news and highlights from their phones. There there's an

opportunity, I think for us to outflank ESPN by going on provocative opinion. Oriented shows between really sharp debaters. You know people walk conflict one wants middle of the road opinions since in smiles which is now saying we instead of you, must be a good sign, Ok, who are you thinking of Collins cowherd. Is he s been contracts up for renewal and I'm sure I can get him to join us soon after or which exist the offer to take charge of studio programming, it fuck sports one and with horror on Board Box sports one is about to get back up off the map. And finally land some pledges on, be new, relic combined. Sixteen different monitoring products that you'd normally

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Fox attacked ESPN head on with Fox sports, one only stall in third place behind ESPN and yes paean to now boxes. Eddying for a fresh assault with help from its new recruits Jamie Horwitz, the prettiest who pumped up yes, two's ratings with opinion powered shows like first take this episode. Five undisputed June. Twenty fifteen LOS Angeles in neighbourhood restaurant with red tape, flaunts Fox sportswear. Programming. Chief, Jamie Horwitz and Voxforge President Eric Shanks or on the hunt for talent in the booth with them is common cow herd the fifty one year old, hosted ESPN Radios morning show right now he's a hot property. Yes,

IN and fox or dangling multi million dollar deals in front of him boxes. Late, chopper is six million a year for four years, Cowherd edges forward in his chair. Here's what I know yes, b and fields to safe and comfortable. For me, I don't care if I fall flat my face, I liked to be challenged. I like conflict, I like anxiety and I'm tired, in Connecticut then join us and be an ally as already offered to. Let me do my show from here what they want. We do as my own podcast imports of my radio, show shanks interjection We'll give you that ownership will also make a studio analysed on our inner pre game. Show it's moving from fox ports, wonder the Fox broadcast network. This ball I like the sound of that or which looks cow herd in the eyes You remember how it was when he s p and couldn't find a show for you, and I said known and almost make ashore show around sure. Well, this will be like that again

this time, I'm making a whole network around you. I want to build Fox ports ones, whole daytime lie up around your show, not a big enough challenge for you, Cow extends his right hand across the table. Yes, we got a deal the arrival of Horowitz and the direction of cow herd mark the start of another reinvention for fox sports. Has cable networks this time, as the home of sports opinion and a marked a new direct buck sports, one in to re. F S, one and efforts to sooner here comes the people women's World CUP, to Vauxhall, surprise the women so Her tournament is a rating smash on S, one, the USA be a game alone rings. Four point: seven million viewers Fox porches executives.

The sky high soccer ratings as proof that if they can get the programming Just right, F S, one can, he'll viewers away from ESPN but now knows. Beating ESPN is not a slam done when it launched if one and efforts to and twenty thirteen it thought it could rival ESPN in just three years now. It knows victory will take years of chipping away at its monolithic rival, beginning with the arrival of the herd with I'll call her on one in September, twenty fifteen within weeks I urge early afternoon show is averaging fifty two thousand viewers small hall, but forty percent more then every one used to get in that time. Slot and every gain count. But even as Fox sports chiseled away at its rival. Cracks are for

in the foundations of E s p s success. After decades of growth, people are cutting the word with a cable and satellite services that brought ESPN into the nations homes and the trend is bad news for media stock prices, Disney weight on the DOW after the world's largest entertainment company, disclose that sports Channel ESPN seven million subscribers over the past two years, Spain has historically been one of Disney's biggest profit generators and twenty eleven hundred million homes could watch he and each one aid more than six dollars a month for the privilege, whether they watched the sports network or not, but now can members who don't care about twenty four seven sports are downgrading to cheaper cable packages without he s began other are cutting the cord altogether in favour. streaming services like Netflix. Here

The end is still the biggest cable channel of all, but news of subscriber exodus sparks panic among investors, media stocks, Internet tail span the wife's more than twenty two billion dollars off the value of Disney alone for ESPN the decline. Isn't as bad as it appears. Did the cable cord cutters never watched this sports network anyhow, so add sale don't really suffer on top of that the fees yes the and charges. Cable providers are still rising fast enough to compensate for the shrinking number of subscribers, but with subscribe. numbers heading south and competition from Fox sports pushing up the car. sports rights and on screen personalities. Yes, pm needs to cut costs dropsy as paean to STAR Keith Overman lays off three hundred employees, and up the rights to in a hot rod, drag races

There are, however, some costly battles. Espn cannot see to block Fox from God, being NBA, basketball, yes, p, agrees to pay the league four hundred and eighty five million a year three times more than it paid under the previous deal, but Fox Sports is about to the EU has been henhouse again spring. Twenty sixteen upper West side you're in a stake house with panoramic views over central park. Jamie Horowitz is out to lure Skip Bayliss to every one Bayliss, Co Star first take and one of the The most controversial voices is bombastic, takes influx twitter daily every morning, more than four hundred thousand people watch him jousting with Stephen, a Smith on ESPN too, and he couldn't have done it without her

which is decision to put him centre stage on first take now its wants, his old friend to join him at Fox Remember how it first everyone- and he has been said- oh no, we can't you skip everyone ate it, and I refuse to accept that They never really wanted you. They just want you ratings I believe in you and you fit in more fox in a dizzy shore. I do feel on supported and I want to work with you again, but I'm not sure what I'll do ever. I decide you don't me you may get Ass one grow anyhow Horwitz shakes his head will I appreciate you saying that, but we do need you we can win morning debates without you, you just better than any one else. No one compares, I need you otherwise I am I'm like an inner coach without a quarterback, but this time he s and isn't sitting by a bidding

or for Bayliss erupts between he S. P M in fog's, yes, in President John Skipper offers to bump Bayliss his salary from three to four million dollars a year, but Fox tops that bag Bayliss with an offer of five and a half million a year A four million dollars signing bonus, and now TAT S. One is going to use to to hammer away at ESPN ratings September. First, twenty sixteen downtown bristle can two miles from the ESPN campus Amanda. Pat hat his ladder onto a roadside, billboard and clambered up. He scurry, up and down the ladder unfurling. segments of the billboards new ad in pasting them on with his brush ass. He works the words skip Bayliss is now on. F one become visible

and align drawing of Bayliss comes into view he's holding a bird cage from which a yellow bird is flying, free just as he's now flown from the confines of ESPN there. Finally, the title this new Fs1 one show is unfurl undisputed with Skip Shannon boxes, symbolic, planting of its add on yes, peons home turf, ruffles, few feathers, and he s began. The SBA and employees don't even pass through downtown Bristol on their way to work, but they can't escape the high around undisputed, because box is pushing show hard on its own networks and on Youtube people going to lose their minds I'll. Tell him downright right, maybe now that he's with fast give the broad James

never grievous, skip and with one hand- and I watched him for years on September, so skip Bayliss and his new sparring partner and I fell hall of Fame or Shannon Sharp arrive on F S one. I have waited so long for this moment. This is on this you did. This is fox. Tat are within minutes, Bayliss and Shannon going at each other, like sumo rustlers, I give TIM teeth a long shot shot at making to the Bigley Karlov Long shot, shot. What line is you can make? No frank? Why why? Why why? Why shot? I think it's my turn to talk here without being disrupted and interrupted by,

in short, the rapid out no cycle. No one knows the answer that it is not on. This beauty hits home with you. Weeks. The morning debate show is averaging one hundred thousand viewers, nearly four hundred percent over efforts, ones ratings from the same time a year before Disputed also leads into calling cow herds early afternoon show hosting. Its ratings. Fifty two percent and is undisputed draws new viewers to efforts. Why fail us takes a hip after Bayliss, LAD S p and brought in boxing commentator MAX Kellerman to fill his shoes on first day, but without Alice first takes ratings tank by thirty six percent. First takes do got three times as many viewers is undisputed, but the knock enough to help as one in twenty sixteen ahead of es into every one,

now averaging audiences of nearly half a million began remains far out in front with one point: nine million viewers its ratings are falling. The trajectory is clear moment is on a vast once sigh, but Espn is about to hit back. You know, according to the latest research, ninety percent of employers plan to make enhancing the employee experience a top priority in twenty twenty two: more flexibility in work schedules, more learning opportunities. Things like that. That's a great thing, because a happy workplaces keyed attracting and keeping great employees

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force sports media is preparing to rich, fire on Fox, yes, peons, P, Archie briefs the team I just got an email from John Skipper and he's pissed Seeing fox painting us in sports centres, dinosaurs in the media, when all their fight he's doing is mimicking. Our debate shows in head awning our people. The team looks please from say been urging skipper to let them start pushing back a member of the team easy back in her chair. I thought: skipper, didn't wanna put down on Fox because that looks bad when you're winning He's had a change of heart, you now accepts it launching downs. Ok, when the competitions Rupert Murdoch, Yeah I mean who's gonna. Think o a terrible. How yes pans attacking poor little Mr Murdoch exactly so. The big move he's planning is it burst. Take is gonna move from Espn2 to ESPN in January. I should at least another hundred thousand viewers to the show so box will know.

or be able to say undisputed catching up with first take another member of the team chimes in that's a good move, but its scheduling decision. What skipper one from us he wants. To get out there and start countering foxes claims with. get the word out to journalists and bloggers and make it plain that foxes mild behind us. Every time fox puts out Here's the show up as one in a good light. We need to get out, figures out here, and why Yes, lay it all out our corporate blood years, what Fox here's a reality. You know remind people that Fox said S, one would beady as being in three years. Good idea. Let's wait until we have the ratings from first takes move for me as paean tuna, ESPN, As twenty seventeen dawns, seventeen peons push back starts

on January. Six first take swaps places with the ten a M edition of Sports dinner. Enjoins, yes, peons main should be joining us on our new home. What's going on, I don't want a thirty getting a sack of. We are re. Launching the move Yes, the boosts first takes ratings. That day first take pulled in more than half a million viewers more than four times, as many is undisputed on every one. Soon after the speech, and pr team springs and action by alerting the media to how ESPN still got five times the viewers of S, one suggests several there's only one undisputed sports tv champion and then

he s, p M, but he s paean, isn't just winning the ratings war, since it large, F S, ones increase the monthly fee. Charges pay tv providers to a dollar thirty per subscriber, but that pale Next to the seven dollars ESPN get each year, the S p. He has been to rake in six point five. Billion dollars from pay tv subscribers that's five times as much as the one point, three billion every one in efforts to make yes, begins, weathering the pay tv cord cutting trend better to both works, are losing access to hundreds of thousands of homes every month, but at once losing subscribers faster and wild OX, is still battling for a larger slice of the shrinking cable and satellite tv market Disney and begin, are about to make a play. Does

to head off the looming threat posed by big tech, rivals like Twitter and Amazon, both of which are still to dabble in streaming live sports June, twenty seventeen, while Business World Orlando Florida, the Disney Boards annual retreat. The one topic dominating discussions is the accelerating exodus. from cable and satellite tv as people switch, who streaming services or quit pay tv altogether. Its and its hitting ESPN hard in twenty eleven One hundred million homes subscribe to pay tv packages that included Disney Sports network now, yes be- is in less than eighty seven million homes and almost all cable networks are on the same downward trajectory but Disney's.

Sixty six year old, CEO Bob, I got a plan to adapt he's been running, the show it Disney since two thousand five and he wants to future proof. The company before he retires, but to do that, he needs the board to sign off on what will be a multi billion dollar play so you ve heard about the problem. Now I want, for a solution, a deliberate and move into streaming with. Two new subscription services yes began, plus and Disney plus start by launching ESPN plus next year, a board member cuts where launch yes, pan plus four he has been already has more sports rights than it can air content already exists. We can launch be in place with around ten thousand hours of exclusive events, including Volleyball Tennyson Hockey with Disney plus we have to make new shows and take back right. We ve licence to others where's the Tec. Coming from, I propose we buy Bam.

Their streaming company control by Major League baseball it develop HBO now for Time Warner and we already own a third of it. The board approves igerne plan. In the weeks it follow Disney and he s p M move quickly. Eiger gives this ports brand, nine months to deliver ESPN plus Disney by bam, tech for one point, six billion dollars and sent it to work. looking the streaming tech that will power ESPN plus meanwhile, He s begins technology team takes on the challenge of integrating the ESPN plus Service with the brands visiting am in which millions of sports bands already used to access news highlights, and he s peons linear channels, and he has been ramming chief Burke Magnus starts hunting for new sports rights. That could convince people too. Four dollars and ninety nine cents a month for yes and plus, but is

there puts his plan in motion. He gets an unexpected invitation. August twenty seventeen Rupert Murdoch Mansion Bel AIR on it. it's overlooking acres of rolling vineyards and aid approaches, Fox chairman and his guest Disney. the Bob I More wine, Mr Eiger Eiger nods. The aid sought his and Murdoch's glasses as the aid heads inside the before your old Murdock turns to either Energy companies are about to move into our business in a big way. The landscape, will change very fast when they do, networks is growth. Surprised everyone scale, What matters now and Fox lack scale you'd have scale of time Warner accepted you take over offer.

I still think some technology companies going to swooped down and shower them in money they're wrong right now, Disney is the only media company with scale Maybe the industry's fretting too much about cord cutting streaming. Services often pay more to carry networks and cable companies because they lack scale and therefore leverage change is they grow their audience. There will come the new keepers between us and our audiences unless media companies achieves scale and build our own platforms. Like your doing. After finishing his wine Eiger. Gives Murdoch's mansion wondering if he missed something, Murdoch wouldn't have invited him over just for some industry chit chat, be a motive, but why the next morning the reason place. I grew cosmos

immediately rovard. If I said we're interested in acquiring fox or most of it, would you be opened to that? Are you seriously interested I'm intrigue Bud die. I need to think it over, but I doesn't need to think for long. He know This is a chance to arm Disney with a mass of film tv and other assets that will help the magic kingdom thrive in the streaming wars in the days that follow he and Disney's top team drop a wish list of what they want from Fox. They quickly rule F S, one f s too, and the Fox Broadcast network Anti drug. Regulators would never let Disney own them as well as ABC, and he s pm, eager and yes, President John Skipper do want Fox Sports is regional networks, these network

would offer ESPN another revenue stream more content. For yes, paean, plus an give the brand even more leverage in negotiations with pay tv providers and sports rights holders and murder acts eager to get rid of them. He sees foxes. general Sports networks as being on a downward trend, because the money they make is rising slower than the cost of the sports rights. They depend on December thirteen twenty seventeen Disney studios, LOS Angeles in a meeting room Yo Bob Eiger is prepping for tomorrow's announcement. That Disney is about. two by most of foxes, asset Disney's, public relations chief runs him through his schedule. We It was good morning. America you'll need to be here by three m for that After that, we have. An investor conference call at five a m ardor knowledge at six sand BC at six. Twenty blue

Then an investor webcast started Disney's HR chief, Jane Parker, enters sorry to interrupt. Bob has John Skipper and tat. No, why the uneasy look on parkers face is enough for us to know that something bad happened. Do I need to deal with whatever it is now, or can I wait until after the Fox announcement it's pressing meant it can wait. I spends the next twenty four hours, walking investors, journalists and politicians Disney. Seventy eight billion dollar mega deal with Fox the acquisition. Disney absorb the twentieth century, Fox films, studio, cable networks, like ethics box, or is regional networks and much more Murdoch is left with a vastly slimmed down empire, centred around Fox NEWS, Fox Sports and Fox broadcast network.

His new plan is to make Fox the leader in LIVE tv programme. When I Gers tv, appearances and investor calls. Finally, an Parker meets him in his office, so what's happening with skipper. he's admitted to having a drug problem he came clean. Because somebody about cocaine from threatened to extort him the next day. I grew in skipper, talk and agree There is no option both for the Eu S p and president to resign. the sudden exit visas, peons leader, couldn't come at a worse time, Disney making its biggest ever acquisition and planning to fold. Fox sports is regional networks into ESPN. On top of that, yes and about to launch ESPN plus streaming service that will be Disney's crucial. First, move against the threat from Netflix, Amazon and Apple

Skippers, shocking exit isn't just bad news for Disney it, also about two scuttle Fox sports is planned to hold on to one of F S. One in efforts to biggest rating draws the ultimate fighting championship. If I've learned anything after years of fine print contracts and getting ripped off by big wireless providers, it's that there's always a catch. That's not the case with mint mobile. Their premium. Wireless service includes unlimited talk, text and high speed data on the nations largest five g network, all with plans that started just fifteen bucks a month. How do they do it by

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stadiums full of sports industry, execs among them, former EAST the in programming cheap Mark Shapiro These days he works for ultimate fighting championship Martial arts promotion owned by entertainment, powerhouse endeavour. He heard through the concourse flashing. Smiles at the familiar faces he passes. there's only one guy. He wants to see the and current programming chief Burke Magnus endeavours. Spot in twenty sixteen it bought the ultimate fighting championship, or you have seen for four point: two billion dollars. Its bed was that it can recoup the caused by hiking The price of you have seen media right when its exists, deal with Fox sports expire. After all, you have sea fight, deliver big ratings for F S, one and veal. Much of efforts to schedule, but Fox bought

Endeavoured demanded three hundred million dollars more every year to keep the U Fc Box Sports exacts response by offering just fifty million more David They didn't need to bid high because Disney, yes, paean, couldn't stomach the you have sees brutal action so now Shapiro out to get ESPN to embrace the violence. He meets Magnus outside of one of the stadiums exclusive sweet they head inside and Shapiro gets down to business. Yes, peons missing out, you have seen the bedrock of F S, one another s too. For a reason, I'm telling you we the deliver a lot of ESPN, plus subscribers Magnus perks up ESPN streaming services two months from large, and he needs bored. So we'll get people to sign up many subscribers Ask S estimate is three hundred thousand you have, Fancy or super passionate, if he

Why has the fights they'll pay interesting? you have seek, can do more for ESPN the. Would you have see? Fan is thirty. Five years old, we can deepen as peons connection with Millennials Magnus hesitates before he can reply ship here. Cuts in I know I know he s, peons part of Disney Disney's wary of being associated with you have see, but allow surely I was about to say yes how this could be good? For you, that's great. There is this cause John skippers gone. He always seemed cool on the. U have see well partly that, but that's all so because our researchers showing that people see ESPN and Disney is distinct brands. They don't. The same family friendly expectations of yes began as they do have Disney Shapiro grants with he s p m in play.

endeavours got an alternative to fox. Japan has been wooing. Espn Box has its sights world wrestling, entertainment after its talks The? U have ceased all box decided it needed a backup. So when, after the rights to W W ease, show smack down weekly audience of nearly three million viewers, down with more than make up for the ratings hit of losing the you have see with www, w e cushioning its ratings bogs figure? We have the you have backed into a corner. After all, Fox is the only broadcasting. That's put an offer on the table you have see, snobs it, it won't be. Tv at all, but foxes plan rested on one mistaken assumption that he s p in wooden, want the? U S and before

box conceal the deal with the W W E, the you have see, and he s p and join forces against it on may fit, asked strikes a deal to bring half of the EU have ceased bikes to yes, plus buddy. It's also close to a deal to bring the remaining fights to its cable channels and wood You have see heading for the exit box can't afford to whose w w e smack down May Seventeenth Box Office is Manhattan. in a conference room on the forty fourth Floor Box Chairman Rupert Murdoch is negotiating with Stephanie MC man, the W w he's chief brand officer and daughter W w e c o Vince MC man, the seven year old, Murdoch Pierce through his round tortoise shell glasses at the bridge. Wrestling executive truth

Is in universal was is embarrassed by your product it thinks wrestling is beneath it Fox, William ass. The W w e will promote smack down cross. All our sports programming every night of the weak and We will create a weekly studio, show on F S, make man smiled the mare of W W E and Fox feels right. Like the Murdoch's the main man family see themselves as rebels who built media, empires despite being looked down upon by most of the industry that can, across she's very appealing wade. He didn't writing. Of course, also should know that, while NBC Universal chose not to renew smack down, they retain the right to match any offer of two hundred million dollars or less then, will increase our offer from two hundred to two hundred and five million make man smiled. That's it

There are twenty five million dollars for W W e over the deal's five year term. the following evening box in the you w, we have a deal smack out? In the two point, nine million wrestling vans who watch it. Every Friday will be coming to foxes broadcasts network losing the you have see too he s p and is going to her if, as one and efforts to and Weekly W w e studio show isn't to make up for it. in February twenty nineteen view I've seen arrives on ESPN, plus and half a million mixed martial arts bans sign up for the streaming service by March yes B, Int plus has two million subscribers five dollars a month to access exclusive coverage of major League baseball frigate You have seen and more it's a big enough success to compensate

regulators forcing Disney to sell the Fox regional sports networks, get bond to get it mega deal with Fox across the goal line but You have see, lives, ESPN, plus its departure is body blow for every one and efforts to in twenty nineteen F ones, ratings, plunge nine percent, Three hundred and nineteen thousand viewers leaving it in third place behind NBC Sports Network if asked to takes an even bigger head, losing its audience ESPN remains miles in front with more than one point: seven million viewers and twenty twenties. Even worse, the covert pandemic cancels hundreds of sporting events lasting huge holes in the schedules of every sports network. Began responds boldly it moves,

entire NBA basketball league into a covert free bubble inside Disney world to get the games back on air, but the new, smaller fox can't make such big ticket moves and as one ends: twenty twenty with its ratings down around another twenty five percent. But while fox suffers es, paean plus thrives. It now has more than seventeen million subscribers paying seven dollars a month. It's not enough to compensate for the ten dollars a month. Yes, paean loses every time someone cancels their cable or satellite tv subscription, but it is enough to show the original cable sports network isn't about to fade away, but even as the threat from far sports receipts.

New challenges to ESPN's title is emerging its March twenty twenty one and Amazon's just agreed to pay the fill one billion dollars a year to make Thursday Night football exclusive to its prime video service. Until twenty thirty three I gotta start off the Amazon. This seems like a momentous deal. Pang ability in dollars a year for those Thursday night rights. How meaningful is this in terms of the overall shift of television to streaming weren't, you a pretty momentous occasion for us. Some, I think it's alive. Bit similar to other parts in our history where, in late eightys, we developed a package for cable television that went to ESPN or, quite frankly, a package that

fox talk in the early nineties when they started broadcast network. This feels the same in a bit, but by no means means the end of the threat from big Tec to sports broadcasters that Murdoch Borsod is here. And Amazon's, not alone apples looking to spend big on bringing sports to its apple tv streaming service, but forty years on top only things for sure PS, won't go down easy. Next week on business wars, I'm joined by Richard Dyke Sports media rapporteur for the athletic to talk about the on battle between ESPN and Fox sports, embracing opinion in sports coverage and fight over top talent include skip, Bayliss, Katy Nolan, calling cow herd and others now commanding top talent fees, driving up the costs of sports coverage. All that's next

week on business wars, if you like So please give us a five star rating under review and be sure to tell your friends the net Episode will be out in a week which you can listen to it right now, ad free by joining wondering plus the Wondery APP follow the show on Amazon, music, apple pie and the wonder rehab Every year, listening right now in the episode note you'll, find some links and offers from our sponsors. Please support them. Another where you can. For the show, is by filling out a survey at wondering dot com, slash survey. from what this is episode. Five of ESPN S, P, Spock sports forbidden, towards a quick note. Recreations you ve been hearing. In most cases we can know exactly what was said. Lucy the drama decisions with their based on historical research. If you'd like to read more about the creation of the S paean, plus and Disney's by out of Fox, we,

Command Roger Eggers book the right of a lifetime, I'm home David Brown. Tristan Donovan wrote this story. Karen low is our senior producer and editor edited and produced by really frost, sound design Kyle call Randal our producers, Dave shilling, our exact, producers. Are Jenny, Lauer, Beckmann and Martial Louis created? or Non Lopez for wondering. Everybody has something that they would give anything for end fortunately, there's people out there who will explain,

there's nothing that nothing from wondering comes a story about true I love you so much power You're gonna have to completely submit to me and give me your complete and utter obedience, and far: some people are willing to go to get what they want. I'm Stephanie Beatrice Twin flames: premiers on February, twenty on apple tat. on using or you can listen one week early and out free right now by subscribing to wondering plus an apple podcast or the wonder, yeah.