I'm David Brown, and this is business wars. After decades of KFC being on top there's a new chicken king in town, it took just over fifty years in business, but chick filet is finally seized the crown and the new regime has brought about a widespread revamping fast food seemed suddenly every franchise once in on the chicken sandwich, craze from Popeye's twenty nineteen sandwich that caused our long waits and a resale market to Wendy,

and Mcdonald's now throwing their head into the ring with the release of their own takes on the chicken sandwich its clear that fast food will never be quite the same after the chicken sandwich wars. So now what well for more we're talking with Nick wider he's a comedian and co host of dough boys weekly podcast centres around fast food, restaurants in culture, we'll talk about where the rivalry stand now and the future of fast food post, chicken sandwich wars. That's all coming with no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts banking with care little one, the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast and top rated app. You can deposit checks and transfer money anytime anywhere may capital one and even easier decision. That's

banking re imagined. What's in your wallet terms, apply capital one in a member at the icy. We get support from Amazon business. Is there something stopping you from achieving your business goals. Is it time money or both well at Amazon business help with act. As to millions of discounted supplies and tools to streamline operations, Emma business is helping companies, governments and non profit of all sizes plan for what's next, when you simplify purchasing your business goals, from a lot more attainable. Amazon business reshape buying visit, Amazon, business, dot com, slash, be w to learn more. Nick. What Welcome to business wars. I things rather than me. so you live and breathe fast food or which makes you a very a person.

Dear dear to my heart, so very unhealthy man. What is it about the chicken sandwich? Do you think unattached any restaurant? Now that make it. So I don't know what tantalizing it's an interesting question, because chick fillet for decades, like that was their thing. It was just this was the chick fillet chicken sandwich and that's what everyone thought about and there were chicken sandwiches at burger chains, but they were like it. It was a good side sandwich. It wasn't the main attraction. It really was Popeye's that kind of created this moment wherever was like. Oh, we gotta talk, this. We gonna talk this new generation, the chicken sandwich, yeah yeah. What I always thought was interesting was that KFC, which was the chicken king for so long, never really had the chickens.

which then go? And what do you think that what I think they just were focused on their classic buckets? I think they were just like kind of doing what they knew, how to do, and they had some attempts at some big swings at chicken sandwiches. You know they can't see, stagger for awhile famously had the double down which was debut big but really just a kind of. I think it was just a little too gimmick Edith stain itself. That was the one word the parties themselves were of it. The buyer is either a merely was an abomination to look at and consume, but it was also delicious. The thing about it is. I always thought that that was just kind of a start right kind of market, yet has yet attention yes and war and also KFC speaking of marketing and stunts. They have gotten more study as aid

In recent years I mean you know: we saw all the things they did with the Mario Lopez Lifetime, special and decay of sea console in the care of Sea Dating SAM, like they really are trying to do these attention grabbing stunted things. It does kind of feel like that

Kind of Ben their focus, though, and it s kind of taken away from the food a little bed. Well now, that's that's an interesting point. Let me just turn the conversation a bit more in the business he direction when you think about where you from a business an equality perspective. Where do the major players light, chick fillet and k of Sea and Popeye's stand now? What what's that? What's the ranking? And how do you see I'm sort of in that space? Just me personally, I mean I'm. I've always been apologize fan. I just feel like of the major chicken chains. They have you know the best just trader fried chicken and that chicken sandwich it's better than check fillet. They think they ve topped up. So I bade me my number one can see a kind of just put a naturally a lower tier I'd honestly take like a churches, chicken over a cave,

and I know probably a lot of your listeners in the south would would talk about you know a sack species or abode jangle and view those highly I haven't had either myself, because I love you so the Gulf order, my entire life, but I dream when we can travel again of of of sampling their wares. What is it with chicken and we because it used to be you know, baseball- Dogs apple pie, shiver lay and hamburgers may be button the chicken just wooden wind up in that sort of lineup. I am not quite sure Why didn't have the same sort of prominence? The american pallid? Because I think it's all- I think it's everyone's favorite. I think everyone loves fried chicken and I think what were kind of seeing with a chicken sandwich. Wars is as much right afraid

and this is out there and fast food and chain restaurants. It still kind of an underserved sector of the market like there is a huge demand for for chicken sandwiches, others a huge demand for fried chicken, and so I don't think it's become more of like, like you owed two year, american cuisine. I want to get back to something that you mention when you were talking about KFC and how they did the gaming console, and you know the dating simulation stuff and on all that stuff. If you look at some of their competitors, how did how did they have they stack up? What about shit fillet? Have we seen that kind of marketing approach from from trickling? They ve been a lot more. It did in terms of their advertising. Just like straightforward and kind of down home American. I mean, I think they just have to have the euro. The aesthetic of the old MAC versus PC adds words, just in all white background there, just a white psych that someone's in front of and just

text on screen the czech fillet Foughten and an employee talk about how they loved to work for the company or a consumer talkin about how they loved eat their product Popeye's. They haven't done anything a similarly stunt. Do you like KFC it as well, but I mean they they have. You know they had the sunscreen, a Popeye's chicken lady, but she was in their advertising for a while and also them just like rebranding to Popeye's Louisiana Kitchen to sort of like embrace the specificity of where they're from and and the kind of fried chicken the kind of size that they have. That was a marketing decision they made in the not too distant past. That kind of, I think, change people's perception of it. Kfc at least hits me as largely corporate these days. Chick fil, a to at least to me, have a more of a sort of a Middle America. Hometown approach. You know lines out into the street Almost an internet model right family owned that sort of we're sure yeah yeah, the cat.

Family and then also choosing to stay closed on Sundays is like kind of a statement but also part of their their marketing. Today, the religious sects- I it's a it seems likely that chick fillet is because you talked about their veto there in that they're kind of dominance in the sector, but it's more like their purse store sales right. It's like there are more KFC locations by may be tenfold

at, but each individual chick fillet is like a scene. It is happening. There are so many people there waiting for it and that feels like that's part of their marketing as well, just making it seem like oh wow, every chick, Phileas hoppin. I suppose we should clarify for me because you you talked about the religious aspect of a closed on Sundays. That's not a gimmick! I mean this is something this been going around. The Cathy family going way back to win chick Filette before chick filet was chick filet when they were selling these chicken sandwiches down in south side at Lana Way way back in the day. What do you think? That's meant in terms of the company's appeal to consumers. I think that, probably, if you are someone who is a devout Christian, then probably You see it is like an as corporate signalling that ok, these guys are on my side. This brand is on my side, and you know that this is a state closed

Sundays is somewhat reverential on their part bride. It certainly innocuous compared to the over. You know. Antigay political stance is the company's owners have taken that have alienated woloda consumers or, on the other side that's been. For chick particular, is that in its that the Cathy family obviously has very fundamentalist feelings, about a whole range of social issues and I know I know people, I bet you do too, who won't go to Chianti Chick Fil, a because of their stance? One hundred percent. I know both people who are who refused to go to chick fil a and then also I know liberals who are racked with guilt that they continue to frequent chick fil a because they just can't resist the chicken sandwich. So I definitely think informs consumer behaviour. Its tougher because.

Yes I've a! I think that they are like. Obviously, if you want as an act of protest to say like I am not going to go to kick fillet because I think they are that I think it's a grievous, then hey more power to you, that's great, but also, I think you you'd, have to probably avoid eating fast food and chain. Restaurants in general, that so many of these corporate owners are just awful people just either in terms of their personal political beliefs in terms of their companies, political contributions, it's very hard to do not put money in the pocket of a monster if you're eating it any fast food or chain restaurant. this. This gets to this issue of whether ethical consumption really can make a difference or whether or not in a waste once you're of a certain size or what's your big enough, it just can't really make a dent in sounds like you're, you're sort of leaning toward the latter yeah more of their no ethical consumption under capitalism. That's the bucket I put myself into, and so

Maybe that's a way that I can absolve myself. Morally, when I am digging into a chick fillet chicken sandwich or a bucket of pop eyes, but also its just like it's. I think you have to completely disengage and completely go off with a grid to avoid- enriching somebody who is doing something terrible. Are you hiring for spring? Maybe need to hire someone to wear a lotta hats which can be challenging or You might have a simple position to fail, but it's taking forever to find someone who is a great fit for your company. That's where zip recruiter comes in zip recruiter can help you find qualified candidates fast, and now you can try it for free at zip, recruiter, calm slash be w whether you need to hire a civil engineer in New York, a pediatric nurse in Nebraska and

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be W. They everyone, its msnbc for mainly when my pie cast into America, explore what it means to be black in America with so much news. We need context to understand who we are and where we ve been so each week, of the people and learn their stories stories that confront injustice and celebrate the human Spirit, because the blacks It is the american experience and would curtail the american story without black voices join me for into America episodes every Thursday subscribe for free. Where we get your progress, we're talking with Wagner, he's a comedian, the co host of dough boys, a weekly podcast centres around fastfood, restaurants and culture, your listing to business wars, I'm David Brown and Neg blessed pull back from chicken for just a moment. Unless chicken is the answer to my next question, but was there ever

and a fast food that was like man? If I were on a desert island, I got back home. That would be the first place. I'd go wow first out. For me, a chicken could be the answer to this question, but I think so much of it bull, spot vandam for fast food. This isn't anything particularly novel, but it's so much of it is rooted in what you had as a trial. What you had as a kid like what what it's all nostalgia that so much of that you're chasing that bite you had is an eleven year old after a good report card. So for me growing up in southern California living here, my entire life, no with so cows favorite in an out Berger. I think if I hadn't now double double in some animal fries. The vanilla shake that I could time would fly by on a desert island, animal

eyes that's great were one of the reasons I was mentioning. That was because as good as the Popeye's chicken sandwich is, there's just seems to be something about it that I take your point that that that moment, when you're young, that you so you know, you have those associations but there's something about the, buttered, Bonn and Pickles, and the simplicity of it. There's no mayo on a chick fillet. Sandwiches lettuce, nuffin, fancy yeah, it's it's, it's very straightforward, its again sandwich I like a lot. You know I'd, but the first time I added I was an adult and I got the hype I I was like. Oh I get why people are passionate about this. I do think the Popeye's is a better sandwich overall, but I think if you it's, what you are accustomed to you know like I could. Probably you could probably objectively proved to me. That's my brain was tricking me in the end that the Kosovars Berger for the MID West chain is superior to the Inn and out burger,

but it just never gonna connect with me in that same level, because I have that that that association from childhood I have that that affinity for it I think again, just so much of it comes down to watch you ve had the most and what you had when you were younger and I would not argue to the death against somebody who said that they prefer the chick valise. I wish to the Popeye's one in particular we're talking about three big national brands here, KFC cheerfully and Popeye's, but the chicken sector seems to be growing. Humans in fact these churches is out there. You got raising Keynes, which I again right in in I've, certainly seen it in Texas. I used to love Alpo Loco when I was in southern California, but that's big on chicken. We gotta, I mean it's the crazy, We ve got south African Nando franchises that are gaining ground. You think any

the smaller change can break through into the big leagues or does Capps II check Fly Popeye's haven't, got a lotta annex brutal way. I mean I was raising Keynes yet like two days ago, because that I'd that's just the kind of thing I do. I will just go to raising gains and so and it was packed, it was like it was like a chick fillet. It had the

you know they line looping around twice around the restaurant, the they had cut aid cordon off one section of the driveway, because you know just her to direct traffic because it was completely mad house. So I mean, I think, people I I think it a new chain. You know that, like like, like raising Keynes right now, it has the power of novelty, especially with the new franchises, its opening, that is, opening in regions where I didn't usually didn't used to have a presence, then again the chick fillet outlets that opened in in southern California. What close to ten years ago now, in the Alley area, there still very, very highly trafficked it's not like people like uh, let's see what all the fuss about our I'd, get it and then moving on its people and find out about it. They see what the fuss is about and their hooked are. The same thing can have with raising Kane see. I think that one absolutely could be. It could be a major player. They also have something they do very specific, which is like

and I ve specificity always helps you have a hook. They just do the chicken tenders. They just do the fingers attendees. How one of you want to call him and at an by all accounts they doing they don't really well how lonely see this chicken sandwich craze lasting, and what do you think's? Next I mean what what usually tends to happen is that the fast food sector in forms you know like gastro pubs and like local restaurants in and chefs you try to do like an upscale version of whatever that is, and then that goes in turn informs vast foods. We kind of saw the same thing happened with burgers, where you know the gastro pubs, we're having their fancy burgers, and then he saw concept like Shake Shack, come up when they're like like this, a fast food chain that has again upscale burger with the with you, no grass fed locally source beef or whatever. So I think we might see the same sort of thing. We're we're gonna, see see more fancy. Chicken sandwiches at you know

nice, restaurants and and and then maybe we'll see someone tried to do it a really upscale one. It does kind of feeling right now, the we ve gone away from kind of like the the malformed like weird veto, sort of patty of Ground chicken meat that you'd see in things like the you know, like the Mc Chicken sandwich worthy the cat burger kings classic can sandwich the long chicken sandwich we ve kind of gun away from that and more towards like. Oh, this is like an actual peace, a chicken. This is like an actual chicken breast that is less uniform and less process, so I feel angry to keep going in that direction. I know totally what you're talking about is not like a giant size, chicken nugget, the wave,

Likewise, if it from from Mcdonald'S- or at least you used to get, I know, Mcdonald's has been trying to get through with a chicken sandwich of its own, not really much headway there, but perhaps that's because of Mcdonald, Sir own reputation with burgers yeah, I mean as its day they have so much trouble launching new product in general. It fed feels like every time they they have something. People will grab it again to see what us is about, but it just is not their menu a year later south. Maybe this chicken sandwich six around, but I dont know yeah ice. I die since you're right about that now and frankly, I've never understood why Mcdonald's will revisit things like them. limited time only well, why don't you put Europe on your menu and and and stick with it? I dont understand the whole in time. We will bring it back. Here is a special event or an occasion. I don't understand it, right, although it is all a very exciting moment in America, when people are saying hey, the Maghreb is back. I love that.

I don't want to lose their outright. I take your point. One major trend and fast food, obviously plant based meet substitutes, right, impossible, burglars and beyond meat. and I understand even KFC and shook the layer experimenting with vague and proteins. You think those options or clicking with consumers. you know they tested the they beyond chickened out here and feels a young brands, witches KFC, Taco Bow and Pizza Hut is going in the beyond direction. They have the I believe, a beyond sausage pizza pizza had as well. So I think he, I think we're gonna, see more and more of that right. Now, there's a premium at it again at one of my favorite fast food chains, which has del taco, they have a beyond taco at which is quite good made with with ground season beyond me, but it's at a premium over beef like if you get the beef one you're spending dollar dollar. Fifty less

Oh, you will see if that it eventually, hopefully they for theirs price parity between or at least something approaching, price parity between the vague in the plant based proteins in the actual means, but right now, have to pay a little extra for it. I'll just say real, quick, the impossible whopper at Burger king, I feel like, is a game changer. That is the closest that any of these fast food sandwiches at these entities fast food products with a plant based meat of come to, like just tricking me and trick Friends of mine being like a well if you just gave this to me side unseen, and I would just make it was- it was a beef burger, so if someone can do that for chicken, I mean that would be here. That suggests that may be is some kind of changes within reach. I mean it It's that good I've never had it myself. It's delightful! I had one today

tell on brand. I do actually order my long on per on purpose. Do you went out and sought one of these different protein burners idea? I got an impossible whopper today, because that's just what I would have for lunch on a normal day. That is that it is the kind of person I am so. Yes, I went out and got that and then was like our doing this energy about fast food. I've wondered if, if you care that much about what you're putting into your body, if you ever even gonna, stop by a dry through window, but I guess you're you're you're proof that people you know that they want their fast food, even if it, even if they are a more design, yeah. Well, I'm currently not eating meat for ethical reasons, not for health reasons like that. Just a choice I made this year, but and this is true for a lot of vegetarians invasions. I've talked do is even if you're not eating meat sometimes still want to eat some garbage. Yes,

times want to eat a whole sleeve of warrior. Sometimes wanting you know some some cheese fries. So I think that it's it's great, that these options exists for consumers who avoid meat for whatever reason, but this are still indulgences, because people still want to Chowne Nick Surprises me what you said there about how you restricting your own diet, and yet you have this reputation for being in oh mister, fogg- food. In a sense I mean that's, it is a big part of of of what you what you are really interested in. What was it about fast food and a culture around it that they can? I hooked you in a grey question. I think a comes down. Two I felt like there was a lot of a lot of just like condescension towards people who eat fast food and a lot of ice

It feels like sometimes there's a scolding tone towards people who like choose to frequent chain restaurants and choose to frequent fast food establishments and egg myself, my podcast CO host MIKE Mitchell. We both love this stuff and deed others. There is obviously good ones and bad ones. There is good companies that bad companies, but we want to take the approach of like let celebrate these chains and lets what we actually love, what it what we actually like about them. Instead of coming from a point of of criticism, I guess in a larger sense, you can't really talk about american food without talking about chain restroom and fast food. I mean that's just such a part of our national identity as eaters issues. That's you think of american food. You asked someone around internationally they're, probably gonna, just as easy is likely to say Mcdonald's as say hamburger, you know they're going to talk about a brand as opposed to it the killer food and that's just like that's that's are that's our nation. That's our arch r r!

Our greatest. The national attribute is marketing and- and I feel like that's I'd- die- I guess that my fascination comes from just like being in american growing up around fast food and chain, restaurants, having so much of it in my life and and and its it's like a part of my identity and is a part of our national identity. Nick Wagner, you can hear him and co host MIKE Mitchell sample the latest in greatest fast food items. Every week on the dough boys pod cast, thanks so much for taking time to talk with its own business, words great to say hello, thanks David, our next episode mistakes. If ever been higher. Is pharmaceutical companies around the globe rush to stop covert nineteen and make history in the process? make sure to join us next week or vaccine wars on business from wondering you ve been a single episode, seven of KFC versus chick filet for business words, if you like,

So please give us a five star rating in a review and be sure to tell your friends subscriber apple pie Amazon, music, the wondering apple, wherever you're, listening right now join one reply: The wonder, react to listen. One week early, an ad free you'll also find some lakes and offers from our sponsors and the episode. Supporting them helps us keep offering. Our shows for free is another way you can support the show, that's by filling out a small survey at wondering, dotcom, slash, serving and tell us which business stories you'd like to I'm your host David Laurie Galleron produced this episode. Karen low is our senior producer and editor edited and produced by Emily Frost, sound design. Kyle, Randal or associate producers. Kate, young Dave killing is our producer. Our executive producers are Jenny, Lower Beckmann and Martial Louis created by Non Lopez for wondering how everyone it Sophia Bush. I wanna talk to you about. My podcast were combined press! It's a shower! I talk to people who inspire me: ask them how they go.

Where they are and find out where they think they're still going. This season on work in progress. I am talking to some of the biggest guests we ve ever had people who have achieved so much and learned a lot of things along the way, including Clinton, Andrew Yang Dan VON Furstenberg, and many many more I'm how excited to share these conversations with you to learn. from their amazing stories and find out how I can reflect their passions in my own life It has been an incredible journey for me, and I am looking forward, has always to sharing more great things with you to join me? Follow work, progress on Apple podcast, Amazon, music or wherever you're listening right now, you can also listened. Episodes early and ad free by starting your free trial of wondering, plus in one area