« Call Her Daddy

120- COUPLES THERAPY (ft. Dr. Orna Guralnik)

2021-05-12 | 🔗

This week, Father Cooper is joined by clinical psychologist, psychoanalyst and star of the hit docu-series Couples’ Therapy… Dr. Orna Guralnik. This episode is sure to be both interesting and insightful whether you have never attended therapy in your life or you are years deep. The duo breaks it down beginning with the basics (aka do I bring a PowerPoint presentation to my first therapy session) and even moves on to address topics such as attachment style, dissociation, and transgenerational trauma. Not currently in a relationship? Doesn’t matter. Have pen and paper ready because every word out of Dr. Guralnik’s mouth is a piece of wisdom you will want to hold onto. Bonus content…does she analyze Father Cooper in the process? ;) ENJOY DADDIES!!!!!

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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other episode of call her daddy, Daddy Gang, today is going to be a little different than most episode. Selfishly, it is one of my favorite episodes today I am speaking with doktor or no girl, neck she's, a doctor, a licence therapists, but, more importantly, for anyone paying attention to my social media. She is the couples therapist on the new show time Series couples therapy those of you listening who have never stepped into a therapists office, Kurt see us all her daddy today. This will be your first session, and for those of you who are in therapy there It is about to be your best therapy session, and that everyone good fuck and ask for this,
woman is on believable So, let's get right into it! Grab your note book grab your tissues and if you have a significant other, have them sit the fuck town. and hand them the goddamn tissues, because we are opening this thing, the fuck up and if you're significant other is still there at he handed this episode. You know you got a good one, daddy gang and if there are no hut move, the Back on this will resonate with everyone listening this episode, it doesn't matter your age or background, it doesn't discriminate. This episode is reliable and if you have a hard time absorbing this first go round, that is ok, listen again and again until you get it it is not a one and done episode. Just like therapy is not a one and done fix. It sure do: sing, Doktor Oriana girl neck or not.
I feel I'm nervous sitting across from you, which I love, though a guy's order is sitting on a couch right now can I say that the rules are averse to day. I love it. Welcome to call her daddy. Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited to have a conversation with you today regarding mental health therapy. Obviously this sparked, because you have a shriek and show that came out on Showtime couples, therapy which you are that their past and you are conducting couples there be for multiple different couples. I became obsessed with the show everyone on my instagram was like Alex stop for us to watches. Oh, my god. This is amazing. Firstly, what does she talking about? And all of a sudden was like obsession, and so I know what you look you're driving. I don't get it why? Well, you know, I think this shows wonderful, but I'm not sure I understand how your generation got so interested. I mean it's amazing
we better get it. I think I was sort of trying to explain it to you that, like I, mental health was a requirement in my home growing up and the conversation about therapy was so fluid, and I know that's not for everyone, but in my personal life, that's what I was raised on, and so I think anything regarding therapy and mental health, especially as my platform has grown eyes, become more entrenched in wanting to learn about it, and so when I saw him poles therapy, I became addicted and I couldn't stop watching and I was binging which even the avenging, don't you are you like what why why not only Why are there so many things that are like enigmatic to me and like intriguing about the fact that your inviting me for this, like for civil binging on therapy. You know I'm used to like a very slow pace of working right, people. You know by the end of the session there, like I get me out of here. I need to think I don't want to see you and they
like their time and then people are binding on therapy. So interesting to me, I think, because being and therapy, I knew that in the show there was either going to be progression. A regression like something was going to happen, and so I think I became very invested in DE interpersonal dynamics of these couples in wanting to see whether they like, I think people can find themes within all these couples. You can relate a little bit, so I think you want to see how it goes but welcome to the show I leave so much to talk about. I first wanted to say that for me and my journey with therapy, I think, with regard to the pandemic, it's been a year of a lot of pressure. You may not know this thing by, like Kiley Jenner rooms, the year of realising that was my you're right. You don't feel irritably. What are you talking about? What this was the Europe like realising for me? I think I really got into therapy deeper than I have.
Ever got in, and I am so happy I'm able to talk about that on this show you in a step further who, though, because I'm on the show being like guys, my therapist told me that you broke down the wall, and now you are having to show that is showing therapy and not just the glamour side of like oh my gosh, their better. Now it's like the awkward silence is the hard questions that you're in therapy and therapies looks at you and ask you pointed question about your childhood that you haven't thought about because you were pressed it and we're watching that unfold. So I commend you and I'm honestly so honoured to be sitting with someone like you. That's been able to create such an amazing product. Thank you Alex you have a twenty. One daughter that was so funny me, so she did. She know about call her daddy Jes. She knew about it and all her friends know about it. Suddenly, I'm on their radar. Until this moment I meant nothing to them, Showtime, whatever nothing. Now Suddenly, oh your mom's
I only know your mom's going on call her idea. Then we're care dial area, That's very fine! For me! Oh my guy! Okay! So can we go? Would you mind going a little bit into detail about like who you are where you're from and how you got into this ground by training. I'm a psychologist psychoanalyst, but in addition to being a psycho analysed, I also did couples therapy for a long time. I got trained in it and love the combination of working both intensely with individuals and with couples. I also teach and right. I read a lot of theory and somehow through my psychoanalytic institute, which is and where you Bostock, Thee. keepers of the show they got to me somehow through I institute first thought I'll talk to them. I have a background in film. I did my first degree and film, but then somehow, in the long conversations we heard having, we really kicked it off and was a real meeting of
islands and they somehow convinced me: why what you do it, which seemed completely outrageous and impossible to me like foresaw. The whole project was like: how has this ever gonna work document. Film like as this ever gonna feel natural is gonna, be authentic, but then to put myself in front of cameras, seemed Blake at a house ever gonna work and then Other big concern I had is: oh, my god, I'm putting all this work in front of these filmmakers. Are they gonna be able to stay sort of truth? the story line of a real treatment or they gonna feel compelled to tell a different I'm story: I was thinking about that, because the The thought of my own therapy experience- I know there are.
I'm sack sessions where I dont really say anything profound and nothing really happens, unlike that was kind of a boring, their possession. But you need to keep those in there to show the growth of then, when there are sessions that there is a huge break through, and I thought that the filmmakers did an amazing job of keeping the authenticity of there are going to be moments where we don't get much out of dams Newton and then to see the progression of when you do that Harrison and that parallel was really apparent for me, which I thought was amazingly well done right and you know, but also in those sessions that seemingly nothing's happening. Probably a lot is happening. It's just happening on the pre verbal implicit level and something is cooking both in your mind in your unconscious and something is cooking between you in your analysed or your therapist. That is still hasn't surface to the level of insight ya out some things happening and you can't get to
Those like your saying those moments. If you skip that across the everyone thought that the couples were actors I at first They were because I do not understand how what did you find people that were willing to do this? It was hard at first Do you know that? Yes, I mean that's a big thing. I mean clearly, I don't have to do that really difficult work. as a whole team. That includes people know what they were looking for. Work result, people that authentically really wanted treatment. That was their first motivation, not being on a show and people that of whose stories were strong compelling they were looking for people. That would be like a good, diverse representation of like the real world, rather than just a particular type of couple, and it somehow worked. It was interesting because you're revealing slowly through our seas and so
need different themes that are just human themes like you, re all, go through them in some way or another. So I think that an knowing it was real and almost having this weird via risk feeling of like oh, my gosh. I am in my therapy sessions. I know what happened so to watch. Others like it was a strange dynamic that I really enjoyed. Now. I don't know people now aren't in therapy. Maybe they're not binging like me, but I just I just want to say. I really like what you're saying just in terms of that was our hope, which is that people will eventually they might see, off with some kind of? Oh, that's their problem there other than me, but when they get to know each of the characters, that viewers will.
you realize, oh, my God, were all so similar, there's so much more in common between us than other in so much more and also so much and fifty like. I looked at people that at first I would there be couples my arm annoyed with that, not one person and then slowly through the UN's veiling of their past and what they have gone through the trauma that they experience, whether it was as a child or in their adulthood. Whatever it was. It was an oh shit like yet again it's the corny saying but like we don't know what people have gone through, and that was very cool to see at first someone being shown cold and hard and not giving much and then all of a sudden by, like the fourth episode, when I'm on board this story line. Oh my gosh, we wow! That's why that person is the way they are. So are you
who, for saying now I got you did an amazing job. I also was fascinated like not when you're in something. Sometimes you are not able to see it and then, when you watch it, whether it in a movie or a show, and then you have your opinion than its helpful Sunday, but a way that was me, we call it. You know in psychology, Jarvan we go away. Talking? But third news, I went reset your not embroiled in the dialogue and the two, but you are in a position. You have a perch and you can observe it. That's third miss that is so good that I know that term now, because I have said in the past, which, with way more service level conversation, I tried to tell my audience like. I like,
to look at things from a third point of view and like you go above and sometimes when I'm too into my own, had about whether it's a situation with someone I'm dating, etc. I like big, ok, hold on. If this was my friend you, what would my advice be to her room? Take your own advice. Yes, did you feel like the events of the pandemic? Was that playing heavily into the dynamic of what going out with couples. Yes, it was, it's always very powerful in every treatment that I've done. I've been doing this for a long time. Whoever is happening in the outside world. Actually has a huge impact on what goes on between people, both interest psychically and between them and their partner. It made for a very different kind of conversation. between couples about differences between them and about privilege, between them, like within a little couples system, there's also all sorts of issues of privilege that have to do you know gender class ray is history yeah. It was
I really change the conversation. I did and knew it for it forced conversations that I think all of us really wow. I can't believe we ve never really had these, and then it was all we could talk about from retire year right and then on top of the in the intensity. Then there was the actual just data day of watching couples be like. We had actually won in time together, cause he's always travelling, and now I want to kill em right because now or in the same space and work claustrophobic of each other, and now we need space and so the dynamic of couples that wanted that time. Another, like, oh god, wait now, I'm seeing who my partner is and do I not like them, because now I'm finally spending enough time to understand who this person is or is it. because we're in the kind confines of our home for x amount of our day, like I think people were struggling with Emma losing it because of the situation? Or is this an opportunity to show me who my partner is absolutely difficult? That was very
head were captured. Yankee, yes, There are so many stressors so then you ve got your partner right there, and how is this not gonna play out between the two of you right either in the form of like you know, dumping your stress on your partner or assuming that there, the one doing all this bad, thing to you- or they just have a different way of responding and like mad about bad and Khazars. Nowhere else to go with whatever is upsetting you, so it came when it came like a very like a little many drama between two people that really had a lot to do with other things in the world: commercial, hello for I am no chef, I am no cook Who'd even know my goddamn way, not only around a kitchen but a grocery store, ok, pats where Hallo fresh comes into play, guys Hallo fresh, is America's number one:
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I first want to just say I think debunking some of the myths about therapy. I have people that are in therapy or all the way back to like is it's scary. To have to make a Powerpoint presentation and like this is my life story. High therapists, like people are terrified, a thing because I thought first so long, its ban in tents and you dont know what how it happened. Suppose I dryly sitting in electric chair like what is going on when you go to therapy, and so I think normalizing that I would say it is the best investment you can make your entire life Maybe I agree here investing in your own mind in your own psyche and ultimately, if you do the work, you will be able to do good for the world. Yet it's not only a selfish investment. You become like a better friend, better partner, ultimately a better. Parent and ultimately a better member of society yeah. I had been saying to you
Earlier that I was raised in a home where mental health was in an option, it was a requirement and it was always on the to do list. My mom always message to my siblings an eye. The only way to enter into a relationship with another person is working on yourself and including empowerment and sense of self, because, if you have that than when you're going into a relationship, the co dependency in the toxicity won't be as there. If you know who you are, I wanted to ask you order for people who have never engaged in therapy. Leg were about to get into it, because I want you to maybe if you could clarify the difference between people that have a great support system. You have a great brand. You have a great family member that gives such good advice verse committing to therapy. I do psychoanalytic work mostly, and that is very different from talking to your best, most supportive, close, person in the sense that the jury,
are you gone in. Psychoanalytic therapy is you're trying to get to know things about yourself that you don't know you haven't known before you're, trying to kind of open up a door between your conscious and your unconscious interesting. You try to get to know about things that motivate you that you're, not necessarily aware of so when you go and talk to other, it's like, even if you have the relationship with your mom or your partner or your girlfriend. You no to talk about those things and in you'd, going on a very deep and wonderful journey where you get to know about things that affect who you are, how you're thinking how you interact with other people the impact your having on the world you get to know of a much deeper layer of all of that. I personally feel like everyone has to be some one of the way they are because of how they were raised, who their parents
are there childhood is the psycho analytic work all he's starting back at something in the child. Lunar amazing question seriously There is some basic idea that earlier Sperience shape the mind whether its very the attachment paradigms or trauma, or just the way of expense, it's the world not to mention like language and culture in all of the things that shape us in you know the younger? You are the more impact for those experiences are and they will eventually kind of set into certain patterns and that's part of you're trying to deconstruct when you
bring analytic work. Part of what happens to us when were younger is we things happen and we certain patterns, get kind of set into us like certain blueprints, and then we come to expect certain things of the world based on what happened to us. Could you give us an example? Just in case people don't understand shore, let's say you know, you're. You were born to a mother that had postcard him and you came to expect little of her mother, because your mother was early on racked by depression, Anne and unable to really respond to you? So you came to expect little and tat kind of be self sufficient and operate that way in the world, really simple things. So what what happen eventually is when you get into analytic work or when you get into an intimate relationship some of
was early patterns will get played out with someone you are very close to so you might with a partner you might when you really getting close to someone and it's a moment. might actually depend on that someone you pull away exactly because you have that very early experience of a mother who had depression, so you can even work on that without been getting into the early experiences, but simply working on your fear of and then see or your knee to be self sufficient. Someone wrote in, is it necessary to relive childhood trauma in therapy to heal, or can I just move on? It depends it's not necessary. Sometimes it's incredibly helpful and usually the more people want to stay away from their childhood the more they need to go there, but you can do that
work in different ways. It's not I mean some people just really don't want to go they their better off, not going there. Like you said it also. depends on where you are in your life, what chapter you're in your life and might not feel relevant for a very on time and then suddenly something happens in your life and suddenly you feel it Oh, my god. I need to go in revisit that thing that I didn't want. touch for all this time to it. A good point I always said to I've. Had certain friends or family members going to therapy at different times, and I had a very close friend lose apparent and it was like thirteen years later, God and European, and they just weren't ready- and I have always said, like you can't for some one to get into therapy. They need to be ready to do it on their own absolutely and in the therapy itself. You can't for someone to go where they don't. Wanna go with you stay with a person where they are and in in to your
was saying earlier that some people are fearful of therapy they're. Probably see fearful of their own mind, because a mean in a decent therapy. Therapists is your ally there with you too, to help you through their not there to talk Sure you really some people are not. I think, that's another concept that people are writing. Unlike what, if I don't like my therapist, you can leave your therapists, like I'm sure that happens all the time it there's not a connection. You go and find another one, and I say neatly: I think it's funny because I remember living back in New York and going to it was I go on Wednesday than it was a Wednesday, and I was on the phone with my mom and, like I don't wanna go to therapy this week. I have nothing to talk about life is a rank right now my life is fine. I and I was always going in the crisis mode and my mom had said to me Alex now she said Alexandra home. She said, though, are going to be the best session.
It was your first session, it was tat. Began, the hood unravelling of yet I'm still now working on this, and I think a lot of people get nerves. I don't have anything to talk this week. I am those those ambitions that love those that I when people start declaring that cause, I had. I had a hard time in therapy for a little bit. Having this platform, I have to cut, have everything like buttoned up a new and know what I'm saying to the world and and I go into therapy. My therapist was kind like. Can you just try to talk without having we think like, but I already know that this is why- and I had all the answers I might there is like alex- maybe try to come next week, not knowing what you want to talk about, not having the answers that I wanted you vulnerable. I would like to see some real emotions, as opposed to having everything packaged before you come to therapy at the point of their appeals. For me to help you go through the hard times
so you go through them packaging and then just tell me about it right and similar to what we were saying earlier, which she wants you closer to that boundary between your conscious and unconscious mind. She wants you to get curious about what you don't know. It was maybe for the first few months, almost like, maybe the first month or two, I remember being like mom, I'm not learning anything. I know every hey, I'm going in here and I'm just speaking, then she stared at me and I leave and then it was around. Like me, these three months. All of us
I didn't. I learned men like well, and I was watching an interview of yours- and you said this twelve weak Marius was fastened into. Can you talk about that here that the boughs interesting and by the way, the side comment but like that you it sounds to me like you, were testing your therapist took you three months to see basically is disappears, and I can really talk to that. A really good point, because I always feel like yeah. It was hard for me to like, I would go in and then leave, and I would feel like that. What the I knew that right, there's you giving you didn't, bring yourself to your edge right because, you needed to see who you're talking to and that's very wise right, right, and so I say yeah and I remember then having not break through and then feeling. Finally,
like relying on her a little to give me the answers as a pole, yummy leaving and being like, while, where my spending my money on like that was for nothing, but it was gaining that report and I think a lot of people have written and being like I've gone on and off. They have gone to a couple in that I stop like. I just can't, and I think if I'm, if I can tell anyone as someone that's is in therapy, it takes a hot minute to start to really get there, because we were me. It took three months to even yet your nine machine running on a machine right through one see who you're talking to, and you should take your time. You do psychoanalytic work with regard to you only do it in individuals, you don't do couple my couples. Work is kind of a combination of because it's a couple. The work is often different, so its influence blocked by what we call systems theory of family system? So we also look at like the kind of patterns that couples create between them. They might be. Of course they are partially influenced by each of the couples. Early
histories or previous histories, but there He also certain dynamics that couples create between them. One huge point that I took from every episode was more than half the time that the couples were sitting there and one had an issue with the other. Most of the time it was like you're, actually projecting and the issue that you're describing is within yourself. What exactly in, and it's a mean when a teacher to talk a lot about the concept of projective identification. Excuse the extreme jargon here, but Oh, yes, edgy break it down. So we you already talks so naturally mean who would have known prison in their twenties. Can now These statements are ready, but about projection right that we can have some
experiences that were not aware of in ourselves and we just project them onto our partner, there is a very interesting thing that happens between couples, which is that you project certain things onto your partner and your partner unbeknownst to them and consciously takes it on and starts acting the role. And then you get into this very interesting dance and they do something like that on their end re, because you're, both coming from complete different backgrounds and main both have different traumas or one, has no travel. One has trauma different childhood and then your both bringing all that I hate to see, bore these words bag or use it. You both have different baggage that you're bringing them into the relationship and then they're kind of meshing, indifferent action styles, but then each one of the partners kind of takes on a certain kind of baggage ride, starts the role and then you get this polarization. So, for example, I mean the simplest example. would be like around the pandemic. Suddenly,
one person becomes the one who is like super anxious about the virus and other person becomes like laissez faire Lake We can go anywhere without a mask, I'm not worried and they get really polarized by if they were not together. They might. Maybe somewhere in the middle yeah, and then the person that's not as or the one that is as intense about it feels at times they can't be as relaxed, because then it's they're going to fully go to the side that their partner is, or vice versa and Scooby Doo almost pick polar opposites, and you stay in that lane.
On its fascinating till. You accept the projector projection and you just start acting like them. You ignore other aspects of yourself. You just become that projection. That's why I feel its. If you get into relationships without doing the work on your cell first, it's like you can almost become a chameleon in any of the relationship you can just become whoever that relationship requires you to be men that get scary, because it then it's like will who are you and what do you bring to the relationship rather than what is the relationship making you become like yet that gets blurred lines. I think I have two questions from vans are similar just saying: do you think that everyone should go to therapy whether they have
until illness or not, and should you go if nothing is wrong with your life? Ok result. Therapy is not just from mental illness. Yemen mental illnesses, upsetting in its own thing, but therapies also forges life, meaning if you wanna change, something about the way you're living or if you want to get to know yourself in a deeper way. If you want a deeper experience of engagement with own mind and with the world so now. If people feel like there's nothing wrong with their life. No, they don't need to be in therapy, but then also that statements
he's got a defensive state or are easily new like hollan nothing's wrong with their library. Are you? Are you saying that lake, with a certain kind of tape, fist like nothing wrong with my life, or are you really good plays no or or even if you are in a good place? Do you wanna? Like is the more you want out of your mind, but no Everyone should be in their. I do think too, from recent therapy sessions I've had when I'm not in my oh, my gosh. My life is harmful and I mean my therapist moment. I have been in romantic relationships that have failed at times, and I a bit of a perfection ass. I dont like when things fail until I like to look back Maskew: did they fail or did they end? Well, they both. Voting. They failed know some, I guess and ends but in my mind- and I was a failure-
in my mind some of it was you, I guess, yeah look at me, you being see there, here we grow less I'd like to listen as Big Alexandra Hum, but I like to look back at decisions that I made in my life that maybe I wasn't proud of, or maybe I wish I had done differently and I use therapy. I can talk about things incessantly all the time. I can go over things in over things and I like
to look back at passages that I made, and I want to change myself. I wanna be better. So with regard to romantic relationships. Mystic specifically, I feel like I'm Indy healthiest relationship. I've ever been in an eye he's great great guy. I would, though, put some of I'm gonna get myself a little bit of credit. I feel like a different version of myself. You right now, then, who I was in my past relationships and I needed those relationships to grown, be able to accept the relation if I may now, but seeing the work that I've done in therapy has allowed me to look at the person, I'm with right now and see them for what they are and accept the love that there are giving me, which I would have never accepted a few years prior so like full
we're not work to look at what you did in decisions you made it. It is helpful, just a kind of like have someone to talk to about why you are the way. You are why you make decisions, what you wish you could have changed or what you love about yourself in what you want to continue to grow and work on some kind of a beautiful. What if your partner refuses to go to therapy with you Right not unusual often the man refused to go There are two options: really one option is to to be honest and talk to your partner about why you think it would be great for them why you needed for yourself that they go and you might be able to make a good case. Not if you're saying messed up and you need to go fuck yourself, but I think it will be really helpful for you with this declaration will be really helpful for me. It will
pardon me if I knew you getting help like make a good case, but some people just won't, do and then. Since you're in a system a couple is a system, a family is a system. Sometimes you can do enough work on yourself that it would vicariously help your partner and you're saying so that also
option so burden you how to do a lot of work if you doing work both for yourself and for your partner, but it does sometimes help yeah. That's great advice. I mean, I know a lot of people of written in whether there in an abusive situation, which, if you're, I always feel I give your partner, won't go to therapy with you and it's so bad like I know cause you won't be able to say this probably cause I you're a doctor, but I consider my show like I would suggest leave because I feel like a person's. Not if you go to them in your saying I need I need this for us. I think this will help us. Why would a partner not be willing to give it a go good? One session you known but like why? Wouldn't you be willing to work on something with your partner? If you love that person you care about nurturing that relationship? What is it that you're so terrified up, and I have some one that was in an abusive relationship that I he wouldn't go to therapy
her, and I knew it was because he didn't want things to change you. He liked the dynamic you want her to get help. He didn't want the help for them, because it was working framework, our dynamic god forbid. They go to therapy Alves and it's gonna start to get even and that's not what he wanted. A new dynamic me. So again, I can't speak to everyone's experience, but women that were writing not into me. Just you know, look a little bit within yourself of. Why do you think it's that they don't wanna go to therapy? Yes was commercial tequila and I are best, friends, but in the morning I fucking hate bitch and in the morning my new best friend is liquid. I ve daddy gang
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too hard for you to answer, but like just if you could rattle couple. I can rattle a couple. One main issue is the difficulty we all have with otherness interesting. So one of the things that happens when you get attached to someone and you get to know them in the new start spending a lot of time with them is they reveal their otherness to you and when you're in touch when you come in touch with someone doing things differently from you, it immediately evokes a lot of questions weight he's doing it right whose doing it wrong. I was better. I dont like facts right, so otherness becomes this kind of incredible. Irritation, yeah, just because its different, not because of any thing, and then you start developing all these like philosophies to justify. Why you're irritated I, but really
one of the main thing that's happening is your faced with the fact that people are not exactly like you. And you have to ask yourself so what about me? What about them they want something slightly different tat. I that even this is like the most low brow level. Think about it, but I remember immediately meaning my boyfriend and he is like OECD, but like he's so quietly clean and like things to be organised very again, listen Orange, ah, ah Dickie, I've got a lot of good trades, but, like I'm, not the most organise. Do clan leave her sin of early, don't shower and who are about to become a gossip shower, but, like I don't I don't mind things to be left out like that and so immediately I was cable whose right right, why do you do value? That seems like an awful way to live
like leave the plates in the same way that immediately go in the dishwater what're you doing and show that is obviously a basic level thinking, but that's exactly it. So that's like the number one issue for couples is just dealing with other earnest. The other thing that I think is one of the kind of core issues that happens between people is this kind of push pool relationship between our need for safety and consistency and predictable, and our need for newness and adventure wow, I now really getting into a bear
oh wow O. Meanwhile, the use article eight it I know you I I feel I am such an independent and I've worked my whole life to be no way, but I definitely love the concept of being with some one. That I know is so safe and cares for me and loves me, but then I also do I'm twenty six. You know, and at times I like the concept of new and what is out there such are and so that pushing pole of this safety, but also the thought of what else like that is a constant I think we are hard to my generation. Specifically it's been heightened due to social media and D. You know, meaning social need. Your kind of.
So tempts you. I think social media. We have such access to everyone's lives. I think back when I talk to my mind about the generation without social media. It's, like you, didn't know what people were doing ran a visa or ITALY, like you, didn't know, unless you are at their home in their showing you the photo book, and so now it's like we have this access to in a pro an amazing amount of information and were able to connect with people that were not intimately like right in the moment with which I agree. But then there is also this it. I think it hurting somewhere of our generation, because there's this constant fear, I'm sure your daughter has used the word foma. Yes of like why
my god, I'm not into bees mom. I guess I'm missing out, but wouldn't you wouldn't realized are missing out. Had there not been ability of social media to make you see it also the life that people are constructing on social me, I admit my social media. I look like I'm leavin the best life and I have my bad days, but I'm not posting that on social media. So there's this it's it's hard. I think for urgent racial to feel happy in their current state and their relationship when their seeing everything on line is all perfect. Is everyone wants to show that their perfect with or not, and so it's like, it's really hard. Yes, difficult idiots, awful silence, you make sure she's, often unfair. If you'd like it's, never ending it's it's hard year, it's really hard. Other common themes are, I mean the stuff luckily the theme, but it's it's a certain dynamic which is its back again to the projection, but people get real
we entrenched in this. Like dance of blame, So something is setting in one week, causing some level of psychic pain or discomfort. Its view very easy for people to kind of more fat into Certain kind of inner language of righteousness and blame like oh somebody must be doing that to me from not feeling good. Somebody must be doing that to me. It must be her or him and then you get into blame and defence while rather than that feeling that great
when we talk about it, I'm not sure. What's happening, you ll come sounded communication. It's crazy, like I've, been really trying to make sure that I usually an introverted in the sense that, when I'm dealing with things, I like to deal with them alone and that's been something I'm working on having a partner sharing when I'm having a hard moment here and because I think some have said, if I completely shut my partner out, then it if it is about them, then you build that resentment and then slowly, like I had three things that I didn't mention to him and now olives and he does a fourth and then all of a sudden. The fourth becomes this huge waterline, yes, words and yet that it didn't need to get that way. Yes, Munich, K fluidly in your everyday life with this person, then it doesn't build up right, both communicate, but also,
I know go back and try to understand, let's say those three things: war piling up like what is that about, for you write a deuce himself analysis, because it might be that with enough self analysis, two of those three things. Actually, then you can let him go because they really have nothing to do with him. Yet Trust is one of the biggest focal points in relationships. I also think I mean every generation again, I think its height and right now, because of how easily social media can allow you to live a different life, and you can be sitting next to your partner and having a complete different conversation with someone. You may be cheating on your partner with accept your all you're sitting. Next to them. Yes, I've had a ex boyfriend who would be in bed with me, and then I found out that he was like talk
to another woman. While we live together and it was the crazy Zenos all via social media, they had never met in person. So true, however, met never. I now can you explain as a therapist what it's like unpacking trust and how to help build that back up if it's broken in a relationship, so that's you won't be able to give you a satisfying answer there, since the steel and steep make it stick me. There were different components to it. I mean one: is you know when there's like an impasse like that or a breach like that, you have to first of all really understand. What's going on their right? It's it's probably a mean, just with the, with a few words that you described him in what was going on with this person
That they needed to like have a double life, but what is that about, and not even a full double life would like a fantasy pocket o or I can tell you offscreen about bow now. Is it was so master right, so your first experience might be. That of The trade which you were, but if you really look at what was going on there, I mean you realize that whoever that person was was needed to do something very complicated with their own mind, yeah and you might have been kind of almost I don't know who you were to him in that were you someone that he was like? Why did he need to do that with you? Why did you need to have a secret life with you.
Who were you to him in his mind and when Start thinking like that, it's trust is a piece of it, but you also understand that what people do what looks like simple betrayal or cheating, and whatever is sometimes it's a very complicated story. There and when you understand it becomes less an issue of trust. Yeah. That's interesting concept. It's like. Why did the betrayal happen in the first pillar? yes, why I'm, who were you to him that he needed to do, why did he need to have like a secret life while with you, you have to have got there in therapy in it's been its minute journey, it's a commercial and we ve got some really big news. Your favorite men's health care brand Roman is now available at Walmart
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We need to be tended to very very closely to keep us alive for a long time. A long time. I can tell you, as a mother on time So we in ITALY are programmed to attach too attached to our caregivers to bring about love and care from our caregivers. What were kind of oriented in that way to form deep, lasting relationships- attachments- that's, are basic. Programming When you see people that are neurotic about it or battling it, they're going again, something that is our basic nature to some degree,
so they're all sorts of issues that come about around attachment and often they stem from very early experiences. So, for example, if you grew up to doesn't have to be a mother, it could be anyone whose, like in has a maternal function your father or another person in your life. You have had your on your ankle and maternal function if you grew up with I'm just gonna short handed with a mother who was traumatized herself then she might be, for example, inconsistent in the way she mothers, so she might on some of the time, be super tuned other times she might be very dissociated whatever got triggered up in her, so you, in that case you might develop what we call an insecure attachment and attachment that is not stable, but it goes between shifts between this. In that yes, no
attached as scared, so they're different modes of attachment and that gets played out later in the way we attached. Other people in our life Firstly, a romantic partners yeah. That is interesting again. It goes back to the whole childhood thing. It's like the classic line of like oh my gosh. I never want to be like my parents and then you grow in every move in its wake. And now you are your mother. Yet you are your parent, yet is like it. You can't help it and unless you, and if you want to adjust that and if you want to be different than what you were raised around, that's where I think the european such an unbelievable tool to help you navigate shifting the narrative you see cause other wise. How would you do something differently than what you were raised and like learned and taught that this is normal? Them is the norm. If you're in an abusive relationship or your parents were then you are growing up and not what you saw. You never saw loving relationship. How are you gonna know?
even what a loving relationship, looks like it's it's. What can I just ask like what what were you when you're asking about attachment? For example, what MRS Gonna send a funny to ask those? But what does a person in their twenties think about when they think
that attachment. I will never even occur to me to think about that when I was your age, I have it it's interesting. I have because I have this platform. I have a lot of people writing in, and so I take an information and if I was just going to not talk about fans, writing an unjust myself. I have had my mom joke she's like I don't know why I maybe I did a beat it into a little too hard like she. Would she made sure that I had such an independent sense of self that I it was, and I haven't amazing father, but it was like you don't need a man to do anything for you like. You are amazing in yourself and you, and I think she taught me that so much that then to get into a relationship the feedback that I always get from a partner
it's like you do realize Werner relationship right, like lean on me, for something like window. You just do your self sufficient! That's your inclination, yeah and I my men. I think I have a hard time going away from that independence and allowing it to be of a partnership, and- and I think that for me I don't have that falls into like the attachment styles but lie attachment is, not until I dont like to attach I yet and I like a load and violent attachment, yeah yeah, I don't. I don't want to lose that independent. Would you don't have to whose one during a partnership at all I'm. I know that, but I think I've at times my partners have have explained to me that they feel sometimes like I am a bit I don't have. The word is cold, maybe in the past cold, because I wasn't as invested in our relationship but
now. I think my partner. Sometimes I just remember like we are in a relationship Alex in your non, not even that I'm oh you're, acting single, it's just I'm so individually, driven and it's not that I am selfish, it's more just like I dont rely on any one to do anything for but myself, and was that always tours it more true. Never you have this kind of very intense career, and it was always always true here so that I think for me. That is one of the attachment things that I'd an honest. I think with my show, it worked because at the inception of the show, I like it's not the healthiest thing or nephew, listen to some of the older episodes. You beg only got out of that healthy, but I was trying to show women. I guess specifically, like you having the attitude that I've had. My whole life at times has been a great defence mechanism against dating, because I don't need a guy, and so I can play the game just as great as a guy can play the game.
and that was great at the inception of the show, because I was telling girls like, oh, my god, you can doing o heat your crying over him he's gonna carver you. I can teach you exactly to do that now, as I've got an older oranges like, oh god, no, but I think I always talk about in therapy like at the time in my life. Back then, like I that I didn't want to get married. I didn't want a real like serious, loving relationship. It was fun. It was a game. I was in college. I was dating professional athletes and travelling around the world. It was so funny
glamorous and it was, and then it helped build the show. But now, as I'm twenty six, that I would never take those days back, but now I'm interested in like ok. That was now. I actually want to use the individual aspect that I have mentally and that work for me and dating prior to as a defence mechanism. I wanted now shift that and use that in a different way. I want to be a healthy partner and maintain that sense of independent, while also allowing someone n you. So it's kind of my journey girl in year It's also very, very interesting to think of it. It jumps of ginger, engender politics engender dynamics in power. Yes, I think a lot of times the men that I've dated have felt an architect emasculated, but it's been, I think, hard at times, because
the way that I am I a u like, sometimes it's hard for them to figure out what their role is relationship. They want to be able to act Take care of me now and I don't need that you haven't for I had- was making money I get ill had that gave off that energy, so young. Sometimes they try to figure out. Where do I fit in you and I'm trying to get better at letting them feel like they should be here and be an I want. I don't want them to feel like in secure. You know, I don't know, I don't know if this is helpful to think of it this way, but part of what I'm thinking. When your decision, I it is that you're you're breaking out of old scripts right of how our relationship is, how. People take on a certain kind of gender roles and who does what and what does it mean to be in a relationship? There isn't a new script yet, and your kind of in a way may be through this show you even trying to write it.
Yeah how to write a new script of like what does it mean to be in a relationship when a woman, doesn't mean a man for this that or the other, but still wants to be in a deep relationship. What what is the new script free for your generation? That is, I think, very difficult for men too, because of the stem that they ve been raised in a rise in our old ask, eliminate yeah and to have a woman making more money than you if you're, not competent in yourself than that, I had a relationship that it was like. I wasn't making more money than him yet, but, as my career was growing, I saw like this friction of him to constantly putting down, and I knew it was just coming from place of insecurity, and my was like I can't be with someone that doesn't fully isn't like that's my girl. Yet amazing she's about ass bitch make so much money, I'm so proud of early re, so tell the great. Instead, it was like trying to suppress that what
I was doing because of his own issue yet so I don't know, I just think anyone listening, whether man, woman, whoever you are like if your partner is not confident enough in and secure enough in themselves and their trying to put you down for your successes. That is a huge red flag. You and you know what it's interesting, because when I talk to people about the show and how much it's changed. I look back at the beginning of it, and although it was so salacious and in your face and it's like cheater be cheated on, it was more like a really trying to defy men. Historically speaking, have been, the ones Are cheating may be in the past or China Surface area it was wanting to switch the
All men can have locker room talk, so can women, and it was absolutely polarizing moment where it was like people got pissed off. What? What does she sang? What it? What is coming out of her mouth, but it was impact full because I think so many women were like fucking ass. Like I love what yours like gas, teach us how to give a great blow job, because that we are powerful and like we have the genus so we're powerful. We can do whatever we want and we don't need a man. So it was like flipping it on its head here then, once it was two years in and I'm on my third year right now as I've gotten that loyal audience and we ve grown together. The show has stood a little bit now towards me being like ok, absolutely I really do standby nothing. I used to say some of it was a little crazy but like the the, what was really behind it was to be in.
powering here now getting older and having a more sense of self going through therapy going through different relationships. Learning about the world myself. Everything changing ever evolving now the show has shifted and I'm having more intimate conversations like this one right now to educate myself an hopefully my fan base on like what do we want our generation to become what do we want as women men etc? But I think we ve just decided what you're shows about. We have yeah you're writing a new script order I for relationships, so maybe you're right. I am trying to write a different scrap dear, but I didn't know that until I've been in this there. Everything is all right, I'm feeling grey or guys think you and your your how you're helping do that in the world, though, on a grander scale you have. This show has changed
the narrative on. I think to a lot of people, especially my age group, been like damn that's what they're peace like all. I want to get on that group that to me and so cool that you ve been able to break down that wall and show the true nature of therapy and how amazing it can it can change your life. You said something earlier: what did you say about you, you is determined that I didn't know that that that someone is saying that this is a time of all real, rising highway ladder. You don't you know highly generous. No, no, no you're a doctor doesn't agro. However, milk, highly like Carter, machines, you know the Karachi. I know there is the credentials I dont know who they are of you. This is amazing. No gave its grey. I wish I lived in the cave with you, so I ll be ass. She just said this is the year of realizing thing,
and write me. I guess it's that loud profound were giving her to its credit. Nobody! I agree it. Is it really really a year of like looking at things differently, which I think can be good? Yes, order. Alex's has been amazing, you have you enjoy yourselves I've. deeply enjoyed myself deeply enjoyed myself. This has been really amazing from Oh, my god personally, amazing. Thank you! Change the depth and breadth of your questions and, like all these places that we went, I'm I'm I'm in our view an I wish. I could do a session with you and I
Just did you are amazing, thank you so mine she mom. I usually a my guys. Go farther one instagram by Monsieur mean you don't want anyone going to mince to ground so or not. Thank you so much for everything. Thank you for the work they are doing and thank you for being uncouple Sarah P and sharing with the world. How amazing therapy can be and can touch people's lives? such a positive aspect think you are amazing, seriously Alex you're amazing, Daddy gang. Thank you for listening to the absurd with order honour is now about to describe how to find a therapist, mere lots of different resource I mean this. I'm talking in general. There is for some people haven't: torrents panels and they can look on their insurance panel.
There, are a training institutes in most places, especially in cities, and nowadays you can reach out to training institutes in work remotely. Ah, but for example, psychoanalytic training institutes and other training institutes. People who are training have to see patients and get supervised, so you can often get very inexpensive help through people that are supervised by senior people caught it and are very invested in the work they are doing so, even though they might be relatively young in the field, they can still be terrific therapists, there's group therapy, which is an option for minced, often less expensive,
the board of a certain kind of initiative? Now that is trying to offer a good therapy is very, very low cost to people that can afford it. I mean there's a lot of very interesting things that are happening now, that they are making therapy affordable in excess, go to Google and go to university training centre. Aware psychoanalytic change, psychoanalytic training centres are really a great place to start. Ok, that's gram, helpful see you. There have been other season, we hoping that there will be another season will not sure. Yet. How do we make that happen How do I ensure that it happens? What like just to you just have to see if they're gonna pick up for another season, I actually dont know with any of that. I just want to say Showtime fear listening to Alex Cooper. Please picked up for see that it's it's been an amazing journey watching it and I would love
revenge. Another season will, I do want to say for some of it. If we're going to have another season, people should and people want to come on oh right and have the real issues not just for the fun of it, but relay two issues they should reach outpatient yeah, I think, there's a website called couples. Therapy documentary, dot, com, diy gang goes to make yourselves, but dont go with like the fact whether you just met last week here. Trying to figure out, if you can date, knowledge couples. Alec really I agree with you want to be, and that was the best part of the show is that you can tell these people are so dedicated to the process, so everyone had their personal storylines button. Metallic the genuine nature of content. Ok, daddy gang, I feel who's gonna, say I feel better. I feel more aware and enlightened and educated- and I hope you guys do too I'm about to
for you essentially almost kind of like a questions, the weak with Warner, I'm putting this towards them because I am aware that some people may not be as interested in these topics as others. For me, it's fucking fascinating, and I wanted this help us to be four hours long, but I also understand some people aren't as into the actual detailed definition of terminology within psychology for those of you that are on the same pages me and your obsessed with couples therapy or not is about a basically dissect, sir, in terms that you may have heard, or some of the questions that you guys wrote in and about pup, and I'm about to play that, for you If, however, you enjoyed the episode and you don't need any more therapy, I understand take some time for yourself whether you're about like Journal or reflect or listen again.
or go take a walk or just chills for the rest the day and maybe was into some music and relax. But so someone wanted to know what it is there. A p beneficial, if you have an eating disorder or body, does Morphia yes absolutely I mean those are very. I mean you need to go to someone who really specializes in those areas but of course, and people that have eating disorders and body does morphia. They need help. I mean they're kind of often kind of locked in their own mind, and it's very important to interrupt an end? Let someone else in what is the difference between if I go to therapy alone to work on issues that I'm having with my boyfriend verses if we go to couples therapy together, yeah, so Goodwin, there's no fast rule about that. I think so
times what happens? For example, I see couples and lets say that they are trying to work on a certain dynamic that their stuck in, which is often why people get into couples therapy and whatever work they are doing at some point. It becomes apparent that something about. Working on the dynamic is not addressing at least one of the people's issues, and sometimes what happens is that the dynamic loosens a little bit and makes it possible for the individual to start getting there is about themselves on it and then they realize. Actually, I I want to take a pause from this and I wanna go get my own treatment and figure out something about myself, people, sometimes real set themselves. I sometimes can tell when I'm working With someone that they think they're having an issue with their partner, but I can tell that their haunted by something that really is just getting. As was said earlier, projected and projected
but I can tell that they need to go into a piece of work on what happened to them, so they stop projecting onto their partner. I could tell in some of the instances you it was great. You would almost focus a little bit more on an individual that you we're trying to quickly do the individuality psych help to then get them back to the corral and help, and it was interesting to then see like a wild that a whole topic that is for that person self, that they should work on individually. That has nothing to do with their partner if their part and disappeared tomorrow that issue they'll, be within them through an and sometimes you can do a mean. Sometimes you can do individual work within the couple. Sometimes people don't wanna go. Do couples work on their own, sometimes there too, fearful to go into therapy on their own and they need their partner there to serve a come. I need them. So it's it's couples,
but it's really individual work with a family member present as injure saying the Trans generational trauma, you talk about that a little bit, speak topic. I guess I can talk a little bit about that. You tell me how far you want to go there, but Trans generational trauma has to do with the fact that things that happen. To us even before we are born that happened. parents are our grandparents or you the collective from which you come can get passed down through. The generations is almost like a secret errand that gets passed down so, for example, a road of paper,
someone a german patient that I saw who was my age. Sportin sixties, her grandparents, both sets of grandparents were nazis, And she herself the patient was play. I mean I wrote about it. She she gave consent for this to be public information. I wouldn't be talking about it otherwise, but she was, begged, by all sorts of irrational symptoms that had no explanation. She was in a very good marriage. She she had a relatively decent life, but she was play then she could not understand what was plaguing her with like horrific dream of material that, like dead by these under the ground? Moving like stuff, I mean it's like from two generations ago. A minute took a very long analysis to really on earth like that.
The fantasies she was bombarded with, it had to do with nazi history that was never spoken about in her family, so things get passed down, I mean now. in our country like near the history of slavery year history of like native Americans, I mean this a lot that gets past down that only now we're starting to look at that. It's not our childhood yeah, but it's an errand that we have to deal with because previous generation
haven't and it can lead to a lot of symptoms. That is so intense and I guess I had had a less intense someone had written in saying. I really want to know about trends. Generational trauma. I've had moments in the last year when I'm in the healthiest relationship of reacting to things in a way that doesn't match up with anything that I've experienced but does with my mom, and I have not a clue how to process it. Let go of it because it has nothing to do with my experiences. When I you know it's what my mom experience, Yes, that is a great example of trans trauma that gets passed on and it doesn't get passed on by stories. It doesn't get past, in words it's in these ways of being like
a mother can handle her baby in a way that just the way she touches her baby is passing in there like a whole history right, it's not in words it's in. In a mean, we transfer so much information between us that is non verbal and non conscious right, so yeah dissociation and dissociative tendencies? Can we get a little band sure dissociation is one of the main one of the main in ways that are mined defends itself against, being overwhelmed by psychic pain, by pain in general, by being overwhelmed since away that, you can manage our relationship to reality. So there are two you can if it is to major ways that one can dissociate mean one can dissociate by. Let's say something really terrible is happening.
Overwhelmingly painful or something that you your mind, cannot bear. You can split. been away like literally split within yourself and take that experience and sort of put it to the side, so that only becomes away. Able to you and very extreme situations almost like post, traumatic, kind of memory that gets tucked away, or you can in a way, refuse to fully formulate the fact that its happening? So you don't acknowledged that it's really happening you only kind of half like psychiatric opening, but it's not happening to me- I'm not really feeling it or you keep a certain kind of avoidance and distance from the experience. So it doesn't fully register is happening.
These are two different ways: Ryan Dissociate is it I am. The word is out concerning, but I guess I'll contains another, but is it concerning when someone has dissociative tendencies like? Is that could it be harmful anywhere? We you note, it sits on its on this kind of spectrum, dissociation Amene. We all used association to some degree to function like when we swim from one kind of way of being to another you know I'm sitting here in talking to you right now and then go out and be with my friend, I'm gonna switch and be somewhat different, yeah that is somewhat of a dissociative capacity to come, switch got it back at you, know and win win? Let's say you're in the middle of situation. That is very like an emergency situation. You you
used association in a way to cope with the emergency. You gotta, ok, I need to think very clear right now. I need to like pack up my kids get out how's make sure the doors locked passports Barbara to use a certain way of cutting yourself off other hangs to survive, so dissociation can be a very healthy tendency in the capacity to kind of switch around and in a nimble of ways, a good thing when it gets to extreme then its of concern so, for example, the most extreme form of dissociation that that one way that we think about it is, for example, what we used to call multiple personality or not we call it associate identity and when people are forced, when they're in such extreme situations that their forced to create these, like multiple personalities, certainly have concerns a very painful amazing. The mind can do that, but it's a very painful way of being in that
quite a lot of help, so that is dissociated the beginning of someone that could is borderline personality disorder, the same as as multiple questions seriously world were like covering everything. I know I everything needed Ike. I can't get enough of the sea Some people say that borderline personality is really built on an over reliance on dissociation, because one of the things that characterizes boy no I'm being in a borderline personality state. Is that you switch between extreme emotional states, so you can be in a state of war it's all good and then switch into its all bad. You don't remember anything good. That ever happened to me angry your anger, so those kind of switches.
I could say: rely on dissociated mechanisms, but being borderline is not the same as having a dissociated disorder by polar and border line are completely different because bipolar is chemical ray and border line is based off of something that, like mainly, I would say, your choice under that happened in your child bipolar, you can t medication, borderline. You can't write all of it is you know it's these kids, all true in what you saying, but it's also both and ok, in the sense that some people say hey that people that suffer with borderline conditions, also have a certain level of emotional disregard If that is not only about trauma, but it could be to some degree. Biological and some even proscribed mood stabilizers for borderline conditions, and sometimes they help
it's a little bit of it a little bit about its. Not one thing. How do you know when you are in love with a person or just codependent my partner, and I have been given together for seven years, we had set eyes on getting married, but I think that we are making excuses on making that happen. I care for this person very much, but I often feel unfulfilled in the relationship and I think he does too. However, I think we're just stand to be miserable together instead of breaking up, although we ve tried at what point does it feel unhealthy in codependent? How do we break this up? Like the topic of co dependency in relationships? Codependent sues, Conover Allay term. It's not psychoanalytic termed the way. I think of the way understand what people mean by codependent soon, and I might be translating it in my own language, is when you use the relationship or your partner to solve things that really should be solving on your own door to address
things you should be addressing on your own. So it's like The boundary around yourself and your partner is, has become too loose and, like we were talking about earlier, you project too easily regressed too much you ask of your partner to take care of things that you really should be taken care of on your own that could be psychological issues or literal like when you refuse to work, because your partners working and you could just sink into this kind of dependent situation. That is robbing both of you of a healthier way of living. Can any one, and should anyone engage in psychoanalytic therapy or is there more of a prototype of a specific person? That's looking to engage maize and questions are asking seriously amazing. They care what first of all there
is like an endless debate in the field about that question so but depends who you're asking okay. The trip no psychoanalytic view old school view is that you have to be served highly functioning to be able to engage in psychoanalytic therapy that, if you're, not if you don't have in a way the strength of character to in toward the intensity of second therapy. You shouldn't go there. You should go from more supportive therapy. I'm like. Let me tell you right and I think we ve evolved and I think many people can benefit from psychotherapy. in the sense that giving yourself these. space to take your own mind very seriously, is a wonderful thing that no matter where your at in life, you can benefit from the truth of the matter there is not a most people, don't have the can
missions that will allow that right, because it requires first of all time space sometimes money. Not always so most people don't have the privilege of unable to engage in that, but it's it's in a man the journey. That would do the world a lot of good if more more people engaged in it, the gang. I really hope you enjoy this episode and it puts his file on my face. This is not the last you will be hearing from doktor or no girl neck and myself daddy gang, you know the mother Fucking drill. I will see you fuckers next Wednesday.
Transcript generated on 2021-05-15.