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Episode 109: How to Fix the Border “Cages” Situation Using Psychology

2018-06-18 | 🔗

Topics: 

  • A complete failure by Democrats, Republicans, President Trump
    • Democrats won’t fix because it’s a GREAT election issue
    • Republicans won’t fix because nobody on either side has a viable alternative
  • The solution needs to address BOTH the short-term and long-term
    • Republicans are the “Parental” party, long-term thinking
    • Democrats are the “Why can’t we only eat candy?” party, short-term thinking
  • Physical components of the issue
    • They’re fleeing danger and hunger to come here
    • The holding facilities are better than what they are fleeing from
    • The holding facilities are temporary
  • Psychological components of the Issue
    • Public focus makes the issue important
    • MSM riding the issue mercilessly
    • Manufactured hysteria for political advantage
    • Liberal propaganda?  YES
    • Very effective?  YES
  • System to allow parents to view their kids in separate holding facility?
    • See that the kids are there and okay

 

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The post Episode 109: How to Fix the Border “Cages” Situation Using Psychology appeared first on Dilbert Blog.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
but a bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump on guess what time it is it's the best time of the day which is weird because some of will be watching this on reply a different time of the day when some of you watch it and still is the best time of the day i do i do it well you can do anything if you ve got coffee and so you know what time it is it's time for coffee was got atoms and the simultaneous zip grab your beverage your vessel your life let's go good simultaneous supping
our aid everybody let's talk about the big topic of the day big because a day chill in cages ripped your parents at the borders so let me give you the the year the overview starting with what we all agree on is always good to start these types of conversations that are so polarizing start with the parts that everyone agrees on here's whatever when agrees on king children from their parents is very bad is not as bad as some of the news reports i was saying yesterday who compared it to taking children away permanently so apparently there are studies showing that if you take your child from a parent permanently and they know that's what's happening at the time that causes
lifelong damage studies show we don't know what happens if you take somebody where from their parents for a few weeks whenever but he knows that they'll get back together but it can't be good i think everybody is on the same page if there were any practical way to prevent what's happening republicans would like democrats would like its president would like it the the immigrants themselves would like it so we should stop pretending that anyone's on the other side of that and perhaps we should talk about this like adults which is what's not happening in the political world but we citizens can talk like adults we have that option the political the political folks don't have that option because the democrats
just a great great campaign issue the idea of children in cages is just so awful and powerful that they would be crazy to fix it so that your first problem democrats would be crazy to fix it that's how broken our government is at the same token at the same time republicans could fix it fairly quickly they can just say a change the rule keep those kids with those adults wait a minute what's missing was missing is how the hell did you do that without making things worse if the republicans hathaway the president had a way to keep the families together in that bar we do have of course we could just not separate them
but what do you do with them do you make it a really good deal to come here with kids because in the long term that would make it worse so anybody explicitly on the news in any interview you seen said what i'm to say now we'd like to fix it in the short term but nobody has an idea to do that there does make it more attractive thing so is worse in the long term maybe there's a plan like that effort a reason nobody's mentioning it the reason that we have this situation is that the last situation didn't work so people are asking to go back to the last situation which didn't work because it was causing more people to be incentivize to come because it look like a pretty good deal so if
we are to be adults in the conversation which our government and here i am talking about republicans white house democrats there are no adults in this conversation don't get yourself this is a complete failure of government a complete failure of government now at the same time apparently the the professionals working at the border and these shelters the ice people are are actually great people doing the best i can with the resources they have their legitimately there too to make the world a better place the people taking care of the the immigrants are you know that they have all the right incentives people doing what they can so they're doing what they can but there's nobody in the conversation at least on television or in or in their press who is just acting like an adult you ve gotta show the problem that nobody likes nobody stop pretend
there's somebody like that nobody likes the current situation nobody not the president not you not the critics nobody but we also don't like the long term situation if it makes more of this and nobody has an idea for making that go away so let's talk about wall are are terrible government tries to figure out how to make this go way less so about some things that we can do in the short term to at least make it not as bad as simple fix it by waving your hands but how can you make it less bad and i'm gonna talk about these psychology of it separate from the physical part of it
if you were to take away the psychological part of the story you ve taken away the worst part because the psychological part is that children are being taken from them in their maybe be language issues or maybe sophistication issues other people coming from deep poverty don't really understand what happens to their kids they not believe it when somebody says now take care of them this is for everybody's what well being but do you believe that saved at the psychological trauma and so how do you solve the psychological part separate from the physical part because gave him and that the people who were who are making this arduous dangerous terrible trap the way to the border people who are in desperate situations there going from it
desperate dangerous hungry yell uncomfortable situation to detention which is at least safer at least that's the intention you know you're training people to keep it safe separating the men from the women keeps eleven safe separate the children from the adults keeps the children safe until you can sort out what's what so at least people got physically safer but psychologically much worse and they these are getting fed probably better than they were but still psychologically it's horrible and at least you're things are getting sorted out a little bit maybe they get into the the right process eventually by psychologically it's it's a whore so how do you fix the cycle took part in the short run so that the parents are not and trauma the kids are not and trauma and yet
you're doing the right thing you're keeping them safe has remember the separation of the children and their parents is at least by the professionals or doing the work is primarily to keep everybody safe so let me give you some ideas these are just brainstorming if i you can you can say their terrible later he i talked about maybe providing ipads so that people can make calls but the more i thought about that and saw pictures inside the facilities i thought well where would you put those ipads where would they be and how do you share them and how do you do that so i ve got a improved idea have you seen the teller presents robots it's basically if you can imagine it like
said way bottom in a little roller bottom that that is stable with just a pole and something that looks like an ipad on the top but it's a it's a robot that you can use remotely so zip around everything imagine if you will let each other so these as a robot or to that just going around all the time and just showing the people showing them getting food showing them taking a nap and their each facility could look in on another facility for example if you saw the robot come by the said this is the child i saw the axe and you know your child is zoom acts then you could walk over the robot and say how can i can i see the other side can i see the kids in whatever facility so there may be some way and by those whose username
one of the companies with one of the leaders or maybe the leader in the space is called double robotics is referred to as an ipad robot now that's the beauty of the double robotics thing is it there but would move around so i'm dealing with the psychological part imagine your apparent and you have to only imagine what's happening with your child imagine you dont know where your child is now you just em adjusting the facility or even if that child get a phone call or had an ipad in front of them you're still seeing just the face of the child or the voice if you're apparent that's not good enough you wanna see what's happening as well robot command the robot can give you the full three sixty eventually so that's that's one idea
and this again we're not talking about a solution because nobody has suggested a solution that doesn't make things worse in the long term if somebody comes up with one the makes things better in the short run and the long term i'm all over that so so let's not pretender two sides everyone is on the same side but politically is easy to take answer robot would also somebody's talking about privacy well i dont believe there's a privacy issue that would matter to the people involved and if the only people who are looking and it's not me
recorded are the people were looking live from one facility to another yo is lorries robots don't go in the other bathrooms or the the showers whenever i think you're fine parents would panic because they don't their child well so there would be the one way to deal with that for example is if you imagine that the kids probable or i would imagine assembly children line up to give food i haven't been there but i imagine there's some boy workpeople gettin line to give food at that you take the robot
go down the line and you look at every face doo doo doo doo doo doo it and then you turn around and you go back into doo doo doo doo doo doo doo so parents would not see their kids may be the first minute but they might see their kids eventually which meet which would be better but you writers there might be an issue of see the kid and the first pass they might feel little little worse so maybe the very first time you show it you do well kids were line for food so you make sure every kid gets shown at least at least a couple times a day when their line of for food somebody says crazy idea let parents be with their children
you may have just signed on if anybody do how to do that makes the adults with the children and the hard part is apparently the children are not necessarily they don't belong to the adults sometimes that children are brought in as a bargaining chip aura let's say i get added jail free card the undertaking taking kids for nefarious reasons so if we knew but they were real parents it would be easier to pare them but the problem is there's an incentive to bring fake kids while real kids were not europe gives in under the guise of them being your kids so those of you who say just put their parents and the kids together or just don't separate them that is a child like a view of the situation because they are absolutely would be the best situation in the short run but
if you ignore the long run the tat sort of incentive would make things worse you're not really an adult in the conversation somebody saying build the wall though the walls take a while and it's not going to stop people from trying to do this for a long time so you need a short term situation and long term now here's another idea along the same lines do you remember when goober was brand new and how you felt the first time you could look at you and you'd know where the rubric car was do remember how so logically that was like completely different from from just hoping the your taxis showed up a complete from a psychological thing so could you imagine for example and maybe they have this but i don't know about it imagine if you will that there's some kind of electronic signboard or something else the tells us
people in their how long they are likely to be there now it could be you know they don't know exactly every time sometimes it takes longer but there might be some way i'm just brainstorming here that the people there could see a countdown clock there were at least give them an approximate time so that they could say ok i've been here for a day but i can see on the clock this sort of a day and a half situation i can make it a half a day i'll see my parents half a day oh by the way i know they're looking at me on these robots also psychologically you could transform the the situation from i don't know what's gonna happen to i do know is going and from i dont know what's happening with my children to owe their my children i wish
were there this is terrible but at least i know they're getting food and i see my kid smiling and feels better so here's the macro idea separate the physical problem which is literally people kept in cages or or facilities that they can't get anna you can call the cage you can call another cage but here's the rule if as your kid it's a cage if somebody you don't know it might be a holding facility right so let let's stop killing each other about what we call these things if it's your frickin kid that things a cage that's it that's that's the end of the story it's your kid that's a cage if its conceptual image asian mitigation and you don't have to see it and it's not your keys
then there's nobody you'll need then maybe you have the freedom or saying well it's a containment detention halfway facility shelter here you can use other words for but if a jerk it that's a friggin cage so listless not word think this and think that we ve done something it's an also let's forget about this obama did it to its true that's how awful gives us context is useful but it doesn't mean anything because obama's now president just doesn't mean anything so stop acting like that that's some kind of her excuse it's not now have a i've told you many times about the power of the visual persuasion
imagine any of this conversation without a word cage or the photos they showed people in your cages some of them were actually from twenty fourteen but the detention facilities i just saw pictures on business insider show i don't know why you call it but i would like a fenced in inner area within a larger area that looked like a big cage you could science not a gauge but if you're in a container that you can't get enough call it a gauge so the visual of us which we didn't have before were least people then spread them around as much during the obama administration allowed it to be a concept and apparently since they were doing less of it or trying to do less of it it was less of a political issue
now a new there's more of it and and there's pictures the the trump administration is gonna need to do something because again beaten badly on this and then there's nothing that i can support in this our except that the one i can cast sport anybody in this conversation you know it is true that the trump administration is trying for a long terms lou but the way their handling it is so so poor that i can i can give them a pass on this was just because of the weather handling and by the way that doesn't mean there's a better way to handle it that doesn't mean there's a better solution if if any we had a better solution i think they were suggested
the solution to just stop doing it because i just get you back to the problem you had that you are trying to fix before you just change the problem so if anybody has an idea i'm all over if if there's any way we can get them where they call the double robotics ipad robots into let's say just a few facilities if it makes a difference i'm sure give funding for a fairly quickly sir scott watches news these pictures reverses course i don't think i've reverse course heaven what what would be something that i said before other announcing i am not aware of any reverse of course i've framing a differently but that's different different that a reverse of course
what was their some did you imagine that there were some point in somebody sir somebody says yes you have right after yes you haven't here's here's what you think is person course somehow you imagined that i was in favour of kids in cages he was somehow imagine that is there anybody who is and who is who is in favour and i think so made fun of the democrats for the point out well but i'm making fun of everybody making fun of the wrong word on criticising everyone the democrats have quite masterfully turn this
rape a political weapon this quite powerful so if we're talking about just the persuasion element of the democrats or are just kicking katy ass on this there is no question about that but if you do about the human element of it this is a complete government breakdown you're wrong only the media are outraged i don't think that's the case i i think i think it is true that republicans or less bothered by this because there looking at the long term and i made this point before that it seems i don't know if i made on this point before but i will it seems to me that the republicans just generally conservatives in general or sort of way
the parental party that yet as in this will hurt in the short term but in the long term is gonna be better and the democrats or kind of stock in the short term which is why can't you give us all candy i dont understand why why and we just a candy and then the parents say well can't he's ok once in a while but you have to have a meal or else you deal die if you just candy and then the children say but i like candy and i dont like roast beef so why can't i just again so that sort of where we are like you and i have candy verses how do we fix it in long term but
the long term people are totally blowing the short term and the shorter and people are completely ignoring the long term that's why i say you ve got two parties in complete failure mode complete failure mood both sides and the white house completely your mood i can't think of anything else can you well maybe healthcare healthcare i think is complete failure mode as well so i think emigration and health care are complete government failure mode democrats republicans white house crossborder complete failure i is there anything else happening today
yeah this is a really good immigration is good as an attack because it's complicated whenever you ve got a situation that complicated you have the opportunity to attack because peace can check your facts so that the russian thing was complicated that was great were great as an attack the oecd report people are seeing whatever they want to see because it's complicated nobody understands it taxes nobody understands trade nobody really understands so where every of these complicated situations and immigration certainly is is called again they got you real down on this one scott explain
you know you hear me talk about tells for cognitive dissonance whoever just said that got your real deal on this scott if you had a reason did he sure it would have been there you just don't like the fact that i just made your opinion look ridiculous whatever your opinion was apparently because the people who just say wrong scott or they will do in nor europe we gullible you give me a reason wouldn't be their hard you ve got a lotta characters here you could fit somethin in maybe not the details well i think you're wrong about this there is no solution because there is you might say something like that reasons already stated gimme one
give me one reason that tells me that my taken this sometimes you now fully informed that's what i just said you fell for the emotion ok so somebody saying that i'm falling for the emotion no and the answer is the emotional argument didn't exist until recently but now that is here is the fact that the the emotional argument is not imagination because the way people are feeling is the fat there feel
in a certain way so not only are the parents and children feeling a certain way being separated but the public is feeling certainly this is new this is new facts if somebody is crying it doesn't help to say there is no reason to cry you have to deal with the fact that their crime dealing with facts that are independent of what i personally feel about this situation america has now worked itself into a lather so that that their emotional feeling has been joined up to us to the fact lover is where we have to deal with so when i say that the that the government has failed they have allowed this emotional thing to rise up and they're not to handling it in any kind of inefficient man
yeah no matter to see that the issue here is that the moment you say children ripped from parents and children in cages there's no besides the argument and the moment you pretend there is another side to that argument you lost the argument so you should never never take the other side once the words children cages ripped from parents as soon as that send the conversation every based on the same side what's different is what suggestions people have to fix it is the only thing that's different there's nobody on the other side there is one side this giving a long term solution without a shorter
there is another one is offering a short term solution within a long term these are not serious players nobody is a serious player if they're not looking at both the short term and the long term so that's a complete failure of government right there the suggestion is apparent stop breaking the law well that's a practical suggestion there why don't you go talk to those people in poverty in el salvador and tell them that they should stop trying to get across the border and show that will help short or long term is false dichotomy it's a false dichotomy that nobody is making cause you need to do both
where's media deportation not an option well i'll give you reasons number one is that again all of us are under informed about immigration soldiers prove i wonder informed iron i am a lot of people coming across our not mexican citizens if they were mexican citizens seems like it would be easier just to say here's the door go back on the other side they they presumably they just try to get ending it but if they're from el salvador you can't deport them to a different country you can't deport and el salvador syrian refugee to mexico yoke is there somebody on the other side the door in mexico saying hello its mexico what he half were us how about you take some ill salvadorans who don't live in mexico they go thank you no no thank you close
how did they get mexico illegally they just came up the southern border why not be sad about american criminals being separated i am sad about that somebody is actually trying to call me a first thing in the morning with supper that drop off and can who pays for their trip good question it's all manufactured hysteria and you fell for it now i think you're not listening to this i'm saying that there is a manufactured hysteria and that the country is fell for it so now it's a real thing because
we're dealing with it as their top issue you are correct in saying that if people were to rank the things that matter the most of them it wouldn't be anywhere near the top yeah i don't know two weeks ago and abandon the top fifty problem cuz you darien heard of it so you're right that this is a stage up hysteria which is still around a real problem it is a real thing that children are being separated for roma from their parents which is not good for the children but there is certainly a prince between a child in a cage and the child whose staying with the relative who didn't go to jail those are fundamentally different time we try to think in these weird analogies like a like concentration camps or or gel or why is it like school or camp or or the holocaust or why is it like going to jail none of them said none of those situations are the same
these are just things that remind you of other things so when i tell you that it's bad for children to be taken away from adults i'm not buying into this hysteria i'm talking about the news on the front page the thing we have to deal with because it's the thing this moving the country so the fact that your logic says we shouldn't worry about it is irrelevant because we're already worrying about it in other words you our world is the things that you see and feel and experience care about that reality and reality has changed for all of us are
reality is different because the way we see things and feel things and care about has been manipulated by the by the democrats primarily really effectively very very effectively and when when somebody says you fell for thee fell for the whatever the propaganda or the hysteria keep in mind that this is the type of thing they could bring down a government it's the type of thing people rally behind
say out its hilary common so it's a big deal psychologically remember i said in the beginning that the physical part is actually people going from a horrible situation trying to make it all the way up to the border thousands of miles who danger and underfunded everything else there actually physically there in a better place khazars there said in their cared for they ve got healthcare for the first time here they pray of showers for the first time in our belong if ever so physically there actually in a better place psychologically the world is reacting to it in a certain way and that reaction is real so those of you here you're using magical thinking if you're saying i think there's no problem because in my mind the risen one it's not really the world we live in the world
live in is that people are pretty pretty talked up about this for psychologically manipulative reasons and that's real now you have to deal with the reality that people are talked up my personal feeling on this doesn't really have much to do they think cloud and prevent what's that mean
let them have sit down dinners with their appearance i dont know if there are physically near each other so that i think there's a a distance in a quantity of people problem the i dont know that that's practical and by the way the the critics i think have to be held to task to come up with their alternative plan and describe what it leads to start with a few starting with a few would be helpful especially if they could come up with i suppose
your stories of everybody looks ok over there there's a cloud given solution well look that up overwhelm the system so that doesn't sound good my whole family is you're saying that the ordinary people are not argument or let me ask you this what are your friends saying about this to tell me the reaction from friends because i've seen lots of people realise that it's a big issue politically i have to admit i dont know that i've seen anybody in person i haven't really talking to many people in person and others but i was so i guess i haven't talked anybody about it or your girlfriend is crazed over this
somebody saying not an issue just reading your comments nothing friends don't care about that people are saying here my aunt cried for thirty minutes after watching cnn yeah i don't know how many people have to be moved by this for it to be a big issue if ten percent of the of the public is deeply affected by it that's enough to change the world so if you can this is something i have talked about before if you have an issue that everybody is a little bit concerned about it probably is irrelevant issue even everybody's on the same page and everybody's concerned about it but they're just sort of concerned that doesn't move the needle
if have ten percent of any public who are super emotional and care about an issue that ten percent somebody saying close to two percent but ten percent better just for the example that moves the needle ten percent people really really carrying changes the world as somebody say is a democratic talking point it's more than that and when i mean more than that a talking point sources suggests that it doesn't make much difference in the real world but this is something which has taken on a bigger feeling and its politically as dynamite it's a nuclear bomb politically
somebody says we can see through the hysteria you should do what what is it that i said the suggests i dont see through this hysteria i literally described this as the p well being in a more comfortable situation compared to the danger that they took the get here its temporary they are cared for physically in every way and of course we have to have laws that that work in the long term is there anything that sounded like hysteria in that and the public is worked up about it that's just a fact right in the psychology of the people involved could be problem a lot better goes when kids and parents can see each other there is a psychological stress is anybody disagreeing with anything i've said so far so your care
the relation of me as i as a comic ironically common character who can see the whole picture i believe does not the facts goes i just described it in a way that i think are under percent of you would agree with serve hundred percent have you agree with me tell me something you don't agree with go tell me one thing you don't agree with a bias liberal now that's not something that you disagree with tell me what i said they don't agree with yeah there we should care i'm not telling you you should care i'll tell you people do that's an observation that you agree with
i'm not saying you should care i'm saying people do that's a fact now other people care you agree with that don't pretend that you disagree with makers you don't somebody says i don't agree as nuclear bomb so suddenly does it agree it say a good political issue i think i think the experts are a conveyor pretty pretty much on my side on this so here's how this works the fact that a guess out of attention is what makes an important and because it's a sort of story that the news is going to ride mercilessly it will rise in our in in the calculation of voters
their minds will rise importance just because it's getting this much attention and it has the phrase children engages as part of the conversation that's just the fact whatever gets the most attention is what the public recent war perceive as important even if you individually bob don't agree that's irrelevant that you think bob differently than the public the public is gonna be moved by what the news coverage is and the news coverage is focusing on this as a hit larry and move and that's gonna move the needle it's absolutely powerful how does a re with russian collusion similar similar somebody else saying your falling for the hysteria did you just sign on
what what about what part you saying that people are physically being better kara than they were when they were coming across by psychologically it's bad for the parents yes you agree with it and you see that the public is getting worked up did i say that i'm suffering some hysteria over this is there anything i said there would suggest that comment makes sense and they don't get a block anybody says that again possessors not even trying you're not even try more liberal propaganda this liberal propaganda really really good meaning those effective it's doing what the propaganda want to do is very effective somebody says also you'd like to capitulate
eight and lose no did anything i say sound like i want to congratulate leave bob ripping children from their mothers i'm not saying that's my characterisation i'm saying that's what the news is reporting child protective services so somebody probably wants me dimension that child protective services does remove children from adults now in those cases the adult and there being removed from is is an immediate that is not the situation here is another reason that i say analogies are not thinking if
if you have made any of the following analogies you are not part of the thinking class and i'm going to be fair khazar on both sides of the little speck of if you have made an analogy to hitler you're not thinking if you ve made an analogy to child protective services you're not thinking if you made analogy to school which i did but people didn't realize i was joking when i did it be i was actually marking somebody else's analogy but in private look that way if you're if you're making analogy of this to anything else you're not part of the solution you're not thinking because this isn't like anything else it is only darn thing if he can deal with it on its own merits
you have to rely on an analogy to make your case whether you're making it that is more like auschwitz or the other side is making its just like child protective the house a different than any parent going to jail those are just different situations there just different and have to be true
but i would agree with you on the big on the big point that their normal situations in which children and parents are separated would trump visiting and seeing them happy help you now i wondered about that but probably not put the would be too many ways i can go wrong somebody say is like a criminal being taken from their kid now that's an analogy if you can't deal with an actual situation just leave the conversation if what you wanna talk about is somebody else's situation that's different you just now part of the conversation
so don't pretend that you are you're talking about another situation with different variables aside daycare somebody's interesting no inventions kid steinway here because it's not really important this conversation there's nobody who wants there's nobody on the side of more crime from the illegal immigrants there's nobody on that side you don't need to mention the obvious stop taking in two hundred fifty guess what do you do them they're already on our side of the border
are they not considered invaders well that is worth thinking worth thinking you can call on whatever you want doesn't change what it is doesn't change what you do about changing the name for it doesn't change your strategy we need more immigrants for farming i believe that's true actually i believe that we do need more workers than we have especially for the farming's segment but that's a separate issue i think i've set too much this already attire i'm way
way more mad at the quality of thinking about this than i am about even the situation itself because as the quality of thinking that so poor here the analogy thinking and the failure to recognise the short term and long term problem those those urges gigantic failures and thinking which allows by the way which allows your government to be worthless ultimately the responsibility is that the government democrats republicans the white house of all failed us on us on immigration in general they but they can get away with it because we the citizens
rely on analogies that are stupid and ignoring the long term short term difference as long as we do that our government can do anything you want scares the citizens to start in the game at all that's often talk you later
Transcript generated on 2020-04-02.