On today's episode, we look at how the Democrats failed to build on the political success they had holding Donald Trump to account for the government shutdown—instead of melting down in Virginia, with their Green New Deal, and with the continued inability of Elizabeth Warren to escape her own lies about her background. Then we talk about the party's anti-Semitic breakout star, Ilhan Omar, and the plagiarism scandal affecting the highest-ranking woman in the history of the New York Times. So much pleasure! Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine podcast today is Monday February 11th, two thousand nineteen, I'm John Podhoretz, the editor of commentary, the seventy eight year old, monthly of intellectual analysis, political probity and cultural criticism a conservative perspective. We invite you to join us at commentary magazine dot com, where we give you a few free reads: ask you to subscribe. Nineteen. For a digital subscription, two thousand nine hundred and ninety for an all access subscription, including a beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times a year with me, as always in Washington, senior writer, Christine Rosen HI, Christine Hi John, and with me in studio
so see you ever no Rothman engaged in the act of selling his very important book, unjust, available on Amazon and wherever fine books are sold. I know hi John and associate editor Abe, Greenwald Seniorita senior editor at Greenwald, SAM, because you're the so here the senior editor Justin's a senior high ape. How are you I'm? Well you out from under me, I good God we have a we have a staff revolt is terrible I'm feeling a little chasin today, because I listen to the a very lovely niche podcast of Jonah Goldberg said the remnant. I don't know if you've heard of it J or you've heard of Jonah, but he's really he's he's very good. I think you know in his own small way and no it was on his podcast last week talking about the very important book on just And there was a lot of ragging on me for talking too much not to know
Did you know there, while Jonah rag on me for talking too much and then after Noah Segment was over Jonah? and his assistant Jack Butler ragged on me for talking too much so I'm going to not not talk, I'm going I do not talk, but I will try to set up the general thesis of the podcast, and see where you guys are going. I think you should give me a little bit of credit for being good multiple occasions and resisting the offer in temptation to in the cool kids table and stop beating up on the guy who wasn't there. I think it was, I think, Joan and I are engaged in a long term fight over. He says that I talk too much on on the golf culture. Are the I guess we do together and I think he talks more than I do, and I have demanded that are producers and we're got somehow come up with a minute count, but it's uh
it's very grueling, it's a lot of work for Scott do anyway, so that here's the quick thesis and we're going to talk about Virginia the political crisis, Junior, the green New Deal, Elizabeth Warren's latest horror, Ilhan Omar's latest hard and a couple of other things, but here's my general view, which is that around the time that the shutdown reached its peak in January and then finally came to an end. Were Kings were really reeling and you know with their backs against the wall. It was like a month of unambiguously and unremittingly bad publicity Donald Trump's numbers went way down. It look bad now. The Democrats are not getting blamed at all for any of this, and if the Democratic Party, continued on its implacable way. Looking like it was, a formidable good chance under or competitor to Trump,
we were not know we're now in the middle of February, you could have really seen the setting of a table of of of a long campaign in which Democrats had the upper hand against Republican. And instead everything went sideways, the Virginia black face sexual assault, blackface sexual assault, blackface controversy, the ran this rollout of the green new deal that featured such details as welfare for people who are unwilling to work and and the The fact that we would need to kill all the cows on earth to prevent excessive methane and the end of air travel and the retrofitting of every building in the United States. All these details then harm than it was then claimed that they weren't there. It was the great the first thing was
I this is a fake document. Somebody produced that was actually produced by the green new deal. People in Alexandria because of Protests office who sent it out to to reporters and to NPR and various other people. What else we have we have? We have three or four different, Elizabeth, More Elizabeth Warren NEWS that her Elizabeth Warren's continuing the apology tour for falsely claiming that she is a native American. This time for one thousand nine hundred and eighty six document said. She was an american Indian trying to apply for the bar in Texas, which indicates this was a this is a habit you practice of hers, claiming native american descent dating back three decades to the beginning of her career and not something that and as a matter of happenstance, while she was trying to get a job at Harvard from the University of Pennsylvania. Um
And then, although I don't really think this quite fits, the schadenfreude know category representative, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota last night in response to a tweet by the egregious and disgusting Glenn Greenwald about you know, is Bill and how people are attacking you'll Hano MAR, for you know, for pro pro brigantes. I n, as in you know, said why are people doing it you said it's all about the Benjamins baby, meaning you know Jews. All the money, it's all jewish money that is causing people to attack her. I think that's a it's a very serious thing and you don't want to say. Oh look. This is Great Democrats are screwing up and that's really great for Republicans, but it does indicate the kind of very significant growing pains. Democrats are engaged or are having to go through as they ham this majority in Congress,
you know in the house that's the shot, and the question is: is the republican negotiations oh yeah, and then this morning's did the details about the shutdown negotiations, which are that uh shut down which was unambiguously bad for Donald Trump in the Republicans the way demo? they are handling this second shutdown cliff is, they're literally apparently trying to limit the number of apprehensions that the that ice can make of illegal hi. Ians inside the United States, by limiting the. Number of beds, or facilities for them to take people into custody and which I don't think, that's really something defensible. It's one thing to say that you know you have the right across you're, putting people in cages at borders which may or may not be true, but but attempting to
limit the ability of an enforcement agency to enforce the law, by limiting the facilities that they can put people in that's pretty exploitable by Trump to make the case that The shoe is now on the other foot and they are being Iraq or unreasonable, because the whole point of the pillow c stand on the shut down the first place was we. We need government to run so we'll talk about budget be able to, border security after the government is running there now attempting to impede you know: sort of enforcement security inside the United States and they are the ones who are going to shut the government down under these conditions. Ok, so take all those individually 'cause I for, okay, so we got Virginia okay, we got rid yeah. We got Ilhan Omar, we got Elizabeth Warren, we've got the green new deal and we've got the budget shut. The second shutdown
which seem to be playing against Democrats or and legitimately genuinely like. This is not a political dispute, we're going to get to the schadenfreude over Jill Abramson, the former as the times later, but that's that that's that's a different kind of schadenfreude anyway. So what we'll start with Virginia and the we talked about this on the last show at the hoisting, the petard hoisted I we don't need to do to do too much more of it, but where? Where is this now? No, as I understand it, and I've been on the road, so people are gonna have more details, and I do I think, in this room but on Friday there was another allegation against Justin Fairfax and was Friday from college right from college another as an adult active sexual violence is pretty explicit and there were. There was a sort of aborted effort. I think, from a Democrat in the legislature to introduce and articles of impeachment
and Mister northam- is now making the media rounds and he got caught in a snare when he describes slavery as indentured servitude, and I think he meant slavery, even though most indentured servitude flavor to different things and Gayle King his interlocutor. What is it? You mean slavery and, and that and the internet blow up as it as it is, want to do, and so this is just not going well for for either of them and they intend to stick it out, but I mean the big take away. I guess, for me is that Democrats of all use their I mean less so with Fairfax and more so with Ag Herring and definitely Governor Northam is that they said you know. This is unacceptable. These guys have to resign and they're just being ignored, so now, they're going to have their demonstrated their impotence as far as their political power authority to force these guys out of office goes and also another going to be they've got these albatrosses around their neck. They're, essentially saying that we have these two racially insensitive at the very least, probably worse, depending on the person you ask,
and they sort of maybe kind of rapey guy who are just going to be hung around the collar of the party. I don't think that's necessarily fair, but those are the terms that they've established for themselves, so they have sort of demonstrated that they don't have the capacity to rid themselves. If they're bad elements that they've said that the Republican Party should be so keen to to do precisely that. Okay, Christine yes, given given all this north him, you know, there's a case to be made that that left wing Democrats should welcome what is happened here, because what what north did over the. Weekend is sue for peace. By saying that, he now had learned so much and basically was going to be governor, woke Ivan Wolkenstein for the rest of his term and lead Virginia in a national conversation on how many people he could buy off with government funds to make him less unpopular, so
pragmatically. Maybe they should accept. You know Northam's. They should North surrender because they loan him for the rest of his term Yes, that's that's true and I feel, like you know, ton of his head coach. His book sales are just going to spike as a result of everything that's going on in Virginia 'cause. It wasn't, it wasn't required reading. They all had to go and read. Tonna Jessa codes is important groups, yes en route and route switches which, by the way roots, was made up. So just as we now know that Alex Haley right, it's a novel that he claimed was a was a truce his family anyway go well. One of the things is interesting, though that's going on is that if north of hangs on, but the only political movement continues to be against Fairfax know Patrick cope who's. This delegate he's he's back down a little bit from from his noise making about exploring impeachment of Fairfax, but this is a real problem.
For the Democrats in Virginia that they would leave the two white guys and go after the the african american legislator right this. This is this is not good for an intersectional party right? So I think that the fact that Fairfax is the real problem right now. I think you're right that they can just you know, say: they've lived in learn with with that north them, but they got to do something about Fairfax 'cause, this issue of sexual salt and believe all women he's got two accusers who many people find kredible. How they handle the process is one issue and then whether or not he survives, the process is the other and that's going to be on going, did they've all lawyer. It up, so I think he's his case is the one to watch most closely in terms of the health of fridges, credit party, ok, so politically so. If you think about it in terms of sheer justice, so n, and herring, the two guys photographed in black face committed
no crime except against taste and good reason and an appropriate sensibility, but there's no criminal act was uh. And yet and the allegations against Fairfax is that he sexually assaulted. One woman raped another. Now there are no there's no charges against him, but ones two or allegations of criminality when two are allegations of of bad personal behavior. That suggests terrible thought processes and yet Christina is right that politically it will look terrible if the white guys get off in the black guy is forced from off except that the allegations against the black iron way more serious than against the against the blackface Klan Hood
yeah and then the Itso and they're also the allegations against her facts and also made worse by the fact that there are that there's more than one and then and if that continues as sometimes it happens in these cases that that that you more accusations, role in It's going to be, I think particularly bad for him by the way you know in yes of the cavanah parallels. What's different about. Fairfax allegations from the cabin allegations is that we have a date. We have a place and we have Fairfax knowledge, ing that he was present, at least in the case of the of what happened with with Doctor Tyson Professor Tyson that this was he said it was consensual. She said it wasn't consensual, so, unlike like Kavanaugh, said,
I don't, I don't know her. I never met her. She didn't know what day it was. She didn't know where it happened. She didn't know anything. The whole reason why they're trying to get an impeachment or if to force him to resign, is to absolve us of the insolvable problem here of having to investigate these incidents. There's no way to corroborate these stories. I mean unless somebody the second story, maybe, but the first story was investigate and the post couldn't figure out a way to corroborate it. So what they really just want us to do is to say why, don't you just admit guilt, so don't have to pour over this evidence is how city of evidence and and make some sort of a conclusion on our own north and is still paralyzed as governor he'd. Nobody wants to be seen with him, so he can sit there and lecture on White Plymouth privilege for the rest of his term, but he's not going to be an effective governor if anybody's get out of the way, that's north. Well, who knows? I mean you know this is a matter of months. Everyone could forget the whole thing I I just
it's interesting, because in all these cases, what is the incentive that these guys have to resign? It used to be in the old days that you would figure out something to do, you would offer a sop to get them to do what you wanted. You get him an bassar ship or job somewhere, something so that in the case of these guys, their careers are ruined, their lives are over there either instantly there. Essentially acknowledging guilt by quitting Justin Fairfax would never work, yeah, I'm like there's, no there's no with the classic The method of dealing with miscreants that you need to get out of the way it is sort of re is out of the reach of the Democrats. Now. Well, what is that exactly mean? What what's? What would you would you? Would you give it Justin Fairfax good job. No, but ok, but what's changed at that
but what I have if this were twenty five years ago, yeah sure I mean I think there are cases in which you say: okay, well, you know go away for six months and then right you know someone so will buy, will give you will get you and under you know, and mortgage loan and you can go work as the executive at this bank. It's you know like I'm just saying these are these: are things that used to happen that that the nature of these crimes, which is that that they're so terrible sounding, but you can never live them down because one is the you were horrible, racist and the other is that you were of the is that your sexual, deviant and criminal and and there's there's, there's no way out for you here. And there too I don't think there should be. I'm not saying there should be a right out. I'm saying that there used to be a political modality for dealing with people.
You had to get out of the way first of the parties aren't strong enough anymore to Republicans in Congress under indictment that are sticking it out. Everybody should stick it out, isn't that the Clinton lessen the Clinton lesson as you stick it out, you don't run away. No, it isn't the lesson of what Al Franken did quitting that you should never do that. What Al Franken? by quitting in order to help his party so that they could use Roy Moore, against the ins when Roy Moore didn't win. Is that way he he basically committed seppuku, and the Japanese already lost them or you know it doesn't it. You know if you take wisdom from that, it's don't don't jump off the cliff too fast, even by the way. Now there was a kind of unspoken in them in american life in journalism that if somebody took this route, this.
Story would go silent like you would quit, and then you know they would leave you alone, because you had left public life, is that true anymore? Now, like you know, you quit, and it's like more like North would quit. It would have been blood in the water they would have been. There was a piece that is marriage. There would have been this there would that you know would have been just so there is no incentive. It's like trump. If you go after Trump in the way they're going after Trump, so that he can be a but after he leaves, if you wanted Trump to resign, presidency, the last thing you would do- is salute and worship at the altar of the states doing lawsuits again, I'm in the southern District New York Going criminally because he says or in the White House, and he would be if he quit. So there is this conundrum. But getting back to the schadenfreude, Christine our reply. Is it fair for Republicans to be feeling shopping,
about or conservatives or whatever about Virginia I think a little bit if you're the kind of conservative that is sick to death of intersectionality and social justice warriors. Maybe a little more schadenfreude for the absolute debacle of Alexandra, because you're Cortez's green new deal launch, which is turned into a a weird game of telephone and recrimination, where she claims that there, for you, know fake documents circulating because the document she posted ended up. Saying some things that you know most Americans would not support, and so it was pulled in and the kind of weird conspiracy theorizing around this. You know great launch suggests both that she's. Not very. She wasn't a thoughtful about how she rolled this out, and there is lot, more attention paid to getting attention versus the substance of what she was proposing, and I
on that score. Yeah, even even you know straight forward old old school Democrats are probably chuckling. I mean I. I really would love to invent a fly on Nancy Pelosi's wall when this thing just blow up all right, so we need to dwell on that for a little bit the the fact. The frequently asked questions document. There's some discrepancies there about different versions of it. Yes, Politifact. What do you call fa? Qq? It's definitely a yes! This is the gaming generation Okay sure so that are there some discrepancies, yes about different versions in different language that was used in those versions, and there is at least I've seen. Screen cap of one passage about somebody drinking their own urine or something like that which was completely fabricated and was not in this document. But beyond that The document is one hundred percent accurate autumn water world that I mean it where ecologically sound portrait of what you have to do after the
will be grey water recycling in the new utopia. So anybody who had read the draft document for a green new deal subcommittee Congress was entirely familiar with these proposals. There was almost nothing new, the languages more accessible in many ways for general interest, audience just print, probably why it was leaked, leaked provided to the NPR in order to drop this thing, but the the the proposals were in pretty familiar people have been studying the quote: unquote Green new deal whatever that is uh, including you know, the crazy things like retro filling every retrofitting every building in okay that's in there it's all in this language and then they it was empty. Millie aiding, and it got mocked, Ann Nancy, Pelosi, kind of crapped on it from great heights and they pulled it. Now you have reporters who are sort of chin stroking about whether or not they actually saw what they saw. More than one me mainstream report?
It was entertaining the prospect that they were just sort of had or something along these lines or maybe what they they thought. So it wasn't what they thought. They said. I don't know I don't know what their convincing themselves into, because in the age of Trump there also Worked up about gaslighting and they're, being gas lit and they're just like. Well, maybe this will but that's not really sure whether what doesn't doesn't come from from, because you're Cortez herself who responded to the to the criticism you want Millie Ation by saying Well, there are a lot of. There are a lot of different documents floating around out there. She circulated right light, in particular the urine thing in order to give herself plus right nine billion, which was sort of savvy, but every reporter in America should be really worked up over how about how much they're being abused at hands of this woman, and I don't see that by the way, so one of the things that draw everybody crazy that the right laughed and jumped on and Ben Sasse to his twitter bio, which is the problem of the farting cow
right yeah. You know this is late. Linguistic discrepancy there, okay, but the reason to believe that it was in there in the first place, even though we actually know was in there in the first place, because it was in the document that NPR published on the right website is that this, as is I an issue if you are terrified of a greenhouse gases, one of the major producers of greenhouse gases on the planet earth are animal, is methane that comes from animals. It's a huge computer to greenhouse gases again. This is, and the idea is that we we in America, there are too many cows 'cause, we eat too much beef and so we're breeding cows and then all these cows, and then they fart and then there's all these. You know the more cows you have, the more methane there is and you're not. Really get rid of the greenhouse gases and less you get rid of the cows, which then raises the question of how do
how do you get rid of the cat all at once, there, like millions and millions of cows? Are you just gonna begin haven't? how genocide. This of the document said that one document at a o c produce at the emissions from cattle and then the NPR documents said quote farting house and planes and they they were unsure whether they could get rid of all this within the space of a decade but again puzzles are very similar in in this document was a whole litany of other progressive wish list. Proposals like the fact that you're gonna need universal Medicare in order to justify the transition from a whole lot of people in sectors of the economy. That would seem destroy into other sectors of the economy and possibly some other safety net programs to justify that, and I think, probably, at the end of the day, they're going to get to a basic minimum income, because they're going to be the plan literally kills off
most of the productive economy. In order to generate this, I'm going to generate this new green new future, which they insist will will be. You know you know better for everybody and they say you know. The question in the document was great. The best sentence in that whole document was great. The question is not how we're going to pay for it, but what we're going to do with all this new shared process? That's the only question we really need to answer. What are we going to invest new money in so a the green new deal Schaden Freude comes from people on the right saying: oh, my god. This is ridiculous. No one's going to want to and all air travel and the and the we can't rector for that. Rebuilding and high speed rail. How are you gonna? Replace air travel with high speed rail from everywhere in the country, and you people are crazy and everyone's going to think they're crazy Everyone gonna think they're, crazy yeah, but it yet there. I I mean I think there are there are people out there who might
of been inclined to agree with such things or you know further. Supporting with this, I think part of the schadenfreude comes from the fact that The rollout is so amateurish mismanaged the the tire. Putting together of of of the of the green new deal is, is so preposterous. It makes them look kind like a bunch of kids. You know So it's it's, not it's, not just the the the of preposterous,
idealism and and the grand scheme aspect of it. It's it's! It's that there's just there's, there's no rigor to to to the ideas. Well, I mean: is there no rigor or is the situation that? What what we have here is, after a years of powerlessness on the part of the of the left, once is, Obama lost the Congress and twenty ten that suddenly they have a a sliver of of of power in the United States and they are just jumping all the they're, just like all in in a second like with the total destruction of the american economic system and its replacement by some bizarre mix of the socialism and Marxism and environmentalism, and that they didn't even wait a month to sort of show their hand. That sounds to me like a lack of rigor.
Right issues describing so ok, well so yeah, but I don't think people look at good. Well, you know, they're really not no well briefly. We just said we just had two year. The presidency characterized by a lack of rigor, so I'm not sure that you can say respond with rigor list Hd has true about the host and rigorous, but is the problem. The role letter is the product. This is the this is. My question like is, is what the role that's funny right, so even they would probably have to admit that there's funny aspects of the roll out. It's the substance either there right or wrong about the substance? Jonah Goldberg aforementioned Jonah Goldberg made the point in his g file on Friday that, conserves, are laughing too quickly, because what what's happening here is just the opening salvo in a in a Let's move to the left that is in fact convincing to people
yes, so the and that the worst case scenario there is. We have a wall scenario where they catch the bus, and then we have a series of government shutdowns over how everybody wants to do this thing that they win the election behind, but is on completely unfeasible the and I'll put is it that it is with a that? There is a lack of rigor here because, similarly, how the quote unquote rollout for Medicare for all imploded was that a lot of Democrats signed on to Bernie Sanders plan in twenty seventeen and when Kamala Harris was asked about a very central element of that plan. The effective nationalization of the health insurance industry, which is on the build it makes it illegal for you to have employer sponsored health insurance, which was asked about that. It blew up as these first contact with a skeptical you first of all, said: wait a minute you're going to strip a hundred and fifty million people in the dependence of their employer, sponsored coverage in a lot of Democrats and then the consent.
Well wait a minute. That's that's crazy! We don't actually like that, including some members who were co signatures of this bill. Similarly, the that the how everybody above wants to pay for this sort of thing, with the extent they ever give any thought to paying for it is an appeal to to modern monetary theory, is so it's some magic. The pale for for everything and sort of is, it basically says you can print money and pay off the government. That's, but the answer to that to stop inflation is just pass a whole bunch of convicts confiscatory tax increases on people in order to troll okay, but that's my story affects my point that the the problem with that is that no one would ever passed giant tax increases on anybody. Optical combat higher prices on consumer goods. It just ignores political reality, never say, never! That's the question, so this is the Classic Overton Window question, which is we're talking about something that is introduced in twenty nineteen. That seems ridiculous and twenty nineteen
but by twenty twenty eight. It will necessarily seem ridiculous. I think there's pretty much a human nature element to that that you can have as the day Lester that the political process in this country won't respond to higher consumer prices by taking money away, for That's something I'd be willing to gamble on well know that hold the whole basis of tariff policy is the idea that you that you raise prices on goods in order to have a different social good, on the individual consumer goods. Yet like individual pride, there's, there's downstream effects inflationary pressures a little different, but I'm just saying is this is likely an incredibly pernicious. This is a question that I'm taught first what we haven't lived through inflation in so long that people on afraid freight of it I mean that's. Actually. You know we haven't this country of any real, serious real since one thousand nine hundred and eighty two that's two generations,
so to assume that people are going to be skeptical of stuff because it might have an inflationary effect. We're going to have to be in the middle of the inflationary effect for people to get scared of it. That's my first thing, but Christine I'm just my question like this all seems crazy, but it seems crazy, ten years from now No, I don't think so. I mean in the same way that a lot of people who were concerned. About Obamacare worried that it was just an opening salvo to one day have you know single payer government sponsored deck, a government healthcare system, and that's obviously, where a lot of people on the left one us to go. I think, The ideas problem is is the is: is the one that I'm curious about because a lot of the attention certainly that AOC and in some of these younger members of the progressive left are getting
should be mass with what we already know about millennial and younger voters, which is that you know we. We talked about this on a previous podcast. You know they. They don't think. Socialism is all that bad. They have fairly negative. Some of them have fairly negative views of capitalism. So I I think in some ways John is probably right. To be worried. The one thing I will say is that when pressed or challenge on their ideas, as as the green new deal was last week- and you know certainly is you are no more- was with her with her and anti semitic tweets over the weekend they quit, Please use the old saw and blaze of blaming the other party right, so so court at because you're Cortez said something along the lines of phone. It's just so sad that the GOP has no ideas of their own. They have to attack me, and you know you on Omar is called an anti semite. Some might I think appropriately and she says well she and Chelsea Clinton are somehow involved in some little twitter, spat and, and she is Chelsea Clinton. Yes, let's discuss how the GOP and and the right is just so anti semitic. I mean there's this that
right now. Fails that used to work to just you know, turn it back to the other side, but these ideas are in fact radical, and I would actually like to see more elected Republicans talking about how radical they are. We hear a lot from commentators and you know those of us and we sort of watch this stuff, but where the lawmakers coming out pretty strongly against that stuff. Well, if the green new deal went as far as you know being introduced as a bill or something like that in committee, then maybe it could be fought against on the floor, but you are you're you're asking a pretty heavy lift of congressional Republicans in the house who are a lot of them are pretty ill call ripped to make substantive intellectual Impala CRT been dealt a winning hand, and they don't know how to play. That's pretty much what yes right here
or you know now. The way you play is by playing on twitter, not by being a public official and having a counter press conference, or you know introducing how that's build an easy enough to. I mean just come up with a couple of hippie lines and go on hardball. You know you can get. It yeah. I mean that when a argument I I think that is what I was getting up before- that I think in terms of the radicalism of it. I think we're we're already there like. I think there is a constituency for that that that is that with that's, not even a ten year thing, I think it's the ineptness that that took steam out of out of the radical is I I don't know, because I think this is the problem with problem climate change. Extremism, let's just say, is that it it's apocalyptic nature require Here's an extraordinarily large response, because the idea is, nothing is going to work right. It's already happening, we're get. You know where we're
older is rolling down the hill. If you could have gotten the boulder before it hit the crest of the hill, then you could have done something, but in fact the boulder and rolling down the hill and the only way to stop this is through extreme effort, so that would mean all use of in the in the internal combustion engine, or you know you know ending air to double or killing all cows. I mean this is not. This is congruent with the Asafa position. That is attempting to answer, but of course it's not a green new deal. It's a green, I don't even know The new deal. Wasn't a wholesale. Despite I mean there were elements of it that were almost socialist for for cystic, but it wasn't an effort to overthrow the entire economy and system of the United States. It was an effort to deal with it. Urgency as it was going on to sort of figure out some way to pull people out of twenty five percent unemployment. Uh
I'm just my concern is that conservative go falling over the green new deal is able to take it less seriously than it should be taken uhm. And I don't think that the millennial members of Congress, you know who were all dancing in their own honor on state of the union night. Are particularly good messengers outside their own ambit, like their own response to them. But you know there are a lot of people in the Middle yeah like who don't want to spend fifteen thousand dollars retrofitting their house. For solar by law, or something like that, but they need to be taught hold that this is what is going to happen. If things aren't going to proceed down the pike. That said, I do think that it's fine to field schadenfreude, because the
in the whole, because the thing is it yeah. Ultimately, the I mean again I'm going back to sort of human nature here, but and- and there is something to be afraid of in so far as this has become a religious faith and people like religious faith. What you described on his eschatology that and that has become a feature of movement that it is predicts the end times literally enzymes AOC says we got twelve years left on this planet before everything goes to pot and that the prescriptions so often resemble very similar protestant prescriptions for for living, a more devout life, simpler life from monastic life and and abandoning the sort of technological advances that have actually achieved some sort of grow, greenhouse gas emissions, reductions in this yeah, but when it is only an exclusively to that to this country and has nothing to do with the
sources of greenhouse gas emissions, which is another clue that this is all about. Membership in a particular denomination okay, but let's let every side every side to be fair. Really every site has their eschatology and has policies that are s got a logical to it. Morally you're, literally, like you know, in the case of the right for a lot of people, abortion is an ask it'll logical issue in the sense that you know a country that pursues abortion on demand. Overtime is basically summoning. Yeah I would posit the debt crisis is more in line with what you're describing there and Matt has another Lexus Dale to to generate a critical mass of support because you're up against human nature, which once more for less yeah I I know, but that's still, not as good the world isn't going to end. If you know
if the government goes, but all all that happened either taxes will go way up. I remember hearing a lot more apocalyptic predictions and twenty eleven twenty okay, but now to move on to more. Actually you know what, before we get to more Schaden Freude for your dollar, for your boss caller I want to talk to, but our friends at the at the tick for fund who are back with us, so that I can tell you about how they've been gathering students and summer programs taught by some of the best teachers of the jury western traditions and now ticket is bringing their master teachers right to your computer screen with their growing library of online courses. They have courses taught by some of the writers. You know and love from the pages of commentary like Ruth Weiss teaching, Daniel Deronda, George Eliot's, great novel of jewish nationalism and Rabbi Meir, Soloveichik known
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apologizing again for one thousand nine hundred and eighty six american indian appellation on her to borrow her application to be a member of the bar in the state of Texas. So I think this gives us gives us little glimpse into how american society has changed over the last thirty years and how the the argument on the liberal left about the nature of discrimination and has changed so now. The general proposition on the left is that there is nothing more wonderful than being white you're born into privileged entire society, is directed to help you advance, while it retard do the advancement of minorities being white? Is the greatest leg up you could ever have and you would be a crazy person not to take advantage of it, which is why
has to be destroyed. You don't even have to take advantage of it, because it's so permeates our society that you get it whatever, whether you want it or not. This was not the general belief. In nineteen. Eighty six, when it was a horrid, wrote american Indian on that bar application. The bar Association association application, in nineteen eighty six, the idea was that being white was retrogressive and you know, all the energy and enthusiasm and all of the optimism. At social change was going to come from affirmative action, helping minorities into positions of authority and power and get education, and they would then take their rightful place at the top of society and everything would go great and then It was bad to be white. It was here you were. I was, in nineteen. Ninety four, something like that. There was the MTV
So the real world showed a sort of classic White, Anglo Saxon Young. Woman on a train with hispanic Cuban and a latino with AIDS weeping, because it was so boring to be white and then, of course, there was the Whitney Museum Biennial in nineteen ninety three, the theme of which was people walking around with buttons. Said I can't imagine ever wanting to be white. This was the server and early version of the idea that what you would needed to be imposed upon people is the notion that being white was bad or colorless retro whatever and now could you imagine even in the doctrine of white privilege that any human being would willingly claim to be native American, except out of a sense of you, know deep pride,
the logic of white privilege. Is everybody should be white because if you're, not if you're, not white, never get ahead. So that's where I in the weird world of So this warrant is that she wanted the authenticity an the benefit of being a native American, then it was no longer a benefit to be anything but white. So then you could claim VIC, but as a native American and she now got herself into a total vice, like she's she's, trapped, she's in quicksand? What can she say? She's got where to go here, all she's done her life is to is to falsely claim membership in a in a community that that to which she a properly yeah- and that was never okay, he was the the did. Not you know not the AIDS or today was it. You know we use better to lie about your your.
A city in or you're, not supposed to be passed now the point at which we she was simply speaking her truth, her her per no understanding of what her from genealogy is the one who keeps apologizing she's going to apologize. That's that's a but knows a that's an interesting question where our first hat was with which the actual and Republicans spent the better part of the last decade saying this is unsupported and then they would be attacked for saying. Well, how could you speak to her experience when you don't possibly share it, we'll see? Yes, he wants it both ways right because she still knows right. She still using that. Well, I was just acting under the information and knowledge of my family that I had at that time, which isn't which is a lie, obviously in completely disingenuous, but she wants the credit for apologizing and and displaying her sensitivity now, but there was no consequence for the benefits she read by using that earlier right. So, if you she really is trying to have it both ways. Still, I think that's why it remains a news worthy thing and and a source of a lot of
attention negative attention for her but of interest. Everyone else it's unreliable. Yeah I mean it would be some wonderful, two thousand and twenty moment would be. If someone said to her, will you right here and now? Um reveal or sort of come around to admitting that no you are not you're, simply not native American. Well, she knows that she now knows, according to the dna test which she supposedly shouldn't have taken, because it was offensive to people that she If she had a native american ancestor, it was two hundred and forty years ago. Right, right Clinton with the I didn't inhale right member, the marijuana. Quite it's like she wants the credit for she wants to take some, They then use this. You know she did use it for decades, but now it's you know, but I didn't inhale. But now I recognize my error and I just think american voters don't like it. It's too slippery. It's not right, it seems designed I hate to put it this way, but if she were male, this would have been over
ago. She would have been that that hurt her being you know a sort of a of a breakthrough. Female gave her a slight immunity on these matters that no white guy, claiming to be an american Indian would ever have happened right I mean I, I mean her status as a progressive folk. Hero probably afford her as many as many benefits of the doubt yeah, but that that's also wrapped up in her being. You know a woman from, from a working class background I mean the weird part about her. Is everything would have been fine without this and in fact it's been a political issue that has dogged her from the minute she started if she hadn't run for the Senate in Massachusetts and the somebody in Massachusetts dug up the America, the native american thing from her Harvard job application, or something like that and it was. It was used in the camp
and you know, by Scott Brown against her, but not successfully, but basically just been going on now for eight years. That's why trump this whole thing about how this is so fantastic trump did this he destroyed her people were calling her Pocahontas Trump pick that from like talk, radio or something, but originally, it was with her than Pocahontas. She was Foca Hantis and then Trump just called her pegasi didn't know the word fo, probably, but I'm basically, this whole thing is just about her lying right. That's all its dishonesty and, if you're in this design, just about something it is like ST. You said the other shows like stolen valor or something like that it, but it's like If you said, if you said you went to, you know you were a phd, but you weren't right that you lied on your red. She lied on her resume, basically and that's really bad. If you're trying to get ahead in life, when it's revealed that you live in a resume well she also. If you look at look at where she announced her twenty,
I run this weekend right. So she goes to the Everett Mills in in Lawrence Massachusetts site of the famous bread and roses strike this is where all the white women were factory workers in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, I'm so she's trying to get you she's trying to play on this. This narrative messages, you say, is being this, you know pro. Will in pro worker leader I don't think that her elite education where she used. You know her native american heritage to get in and and Excel fits with this other message in member. She was the great hope of the le Not that long ago. In terms of their economic message and hook, nobody's really listen to that right now. Can we talk about this for a second, so she went to the to the bread and roses you know strike, which is like a hundred and fifteen years. Go like imagine that somebody announces their presidential campaign in front of the building that hosted the triangle. Shirtwaist factory
I, which was the nineteen eleven like can't they come up with anything new were like this is we're hard Coming back to some myth: it's not mythological, but I'm running back to a past like before you know before everybody had a car for was like running water in people's houses like this is where the Democrats are going but it's a perfect. It's perfect because look at what it like look at, whatever mills has become like a lot of old factories in the it's in these towns. It's now like an event space. It's very you talk about white privilege, it's like you know these. These have become high, end shopping malls and an office spaces, and so in some ways, it's kind of inadvertently perfect for her message. It's true! You know I should contrast it with yesterday Service Center, Amy, COE Club made her entered the race and I have to say of all these rollouts
this was a spectacular visually, a spectacular thing. She did so. She was in Minneapolis on the shore of the Mississippi River. In the snow. It was beautiful. She a huge crowd, even though it was like ten degrees. She made a good speech whether or not she's, like a you know, a top tier candidate or not remains to see yeah she's. A really good speak well. She was a prosecutor like this is one thing people forget is that these prosecute? If they do it well they know how to speak without notes? You know because they did it for decades. You know, and you know it as part of their regular daily job anyway. Unlike the awkwardness of a lot of these things with, you know, Warren's rollout being slightly odd and bookers role. That brings it like this was a. This was a beautiful piece of stage crew at political stage, craft
I mean, I don't think it matters really in the long run, but it gives you a sense that she knows what she's doing you know and she is more importantly, I'm like everybody else and she is pitching. Self to a different political constituent. She she is going for the moderate lane in the Democratic Party if there is such a lane by the way. Another thing there was a big political piece this morning about Joe Biden or Mcclatchey peace. I'm sorry but Joe Biden, thirty one Democrat
I'd say he's a lot weaker than you think, and you know the polling is all is all evanescent and you can't tell you no he's not he's an old white guy who's, an this more than ever convinced me. That Biden was going to be the nominee, because I read eight thousand different pieces, eight thousand different pieces about how this way every week about Trump right in twenty fifteen twenty six. He can't do it. The pole is evanescent buddies, don't got no place and he's not going to appeal to the parties dude. So you know if it is become the orthodoxy okay, part of the Biden can't win Biden, could, with no one's, got a thing called clover. Shark publisher challenges Biden's lane, then, doesn't she she's young she's? What like more than ten years younger than him? If he's going for those more so
interest. Democrats. As you said, if they still exist, then she is the most direct challenge to his opportunity. We buy centrist Democrat, you mean. Doesn't denigrate labor like just work. Well like it is, is not in favor of mass bovine genocide. I mean we're, not a social moderate. Look they might yeah is. It is a much broader land I think, by virtue of his to find themselves, but also by the play this notion that she's going to be taken down because their stories about how she was a mean boss, I mean see- are we? What is? This is every gone insane you know what I haven't heard. Bill Clinton was the worst boss ever Andrew Cunanan and men to get away with that. The whole thing is just that, other mobile where you go, they must people must about, because you know. Who else was said to be a bad boss, John Mccain,
got the nomination. Okay, maybe republicans like beam guys. I don't know I mean this is like ridiculous. Okay, so have we finished with the I'm for the dry we got along all mar we gotta get okay. Now is this shot now? First of all, I I I hesitate to go. The rotten freighter out, because this is this is legitimately scary. Okay, I mean this is like she is a open out now out open anti semite and the kid gloves was which has been treated thus far, and even I think slightly in response to these really agreed to and horrible twitching made last made last night That's not come for. It's not comforting. It is this question of whether or not we are heading to opening the Overton Window, dates for the Democratic Party,
the Labor Party in ten years- okay- so here's the shuttle for that I take which is sort of delicate there's a spa there's. I I would in instinct, on the right that which is laudable, which is to find sort of common ground with these sort of people and have a conversation in a dialogue and understand and respect and that sort of what Republicans seek from Democrats when they transgressing against certain racial concepts, for example, of which they may not even be aware- transgressing against a sick dialogue and that sort of thing and and a little more got that, but she still doing it. I mean we're we're world now, a month and a half after the dialogue began, and it's it's right. Certain point. You got a call the dialogue off, you know, but you know why it it's still that doesn't qualify for as schadenfreude, because still going on she's still getting some degree of that
Really so you know some people are, but a lot of people on Twitter last night were saying things that, like bye, pulling for you. I, like you as someone who thinks Israel is terrible Don't talk about Jews in quite this way, so I was so so there's this third, they still they're finding something worth redeeming in a hurry that day, so it's still too sick and in the pre show. I said that we could use a you know, a thought experiment by replacing Jews in Israel with Mexican Mexicans. But if she was to continue to say, as she has said, about the the sort of these mexican stereo types and talk about Mexicans being the pernicious effect that they have on american politics and then, even after all, that praising herself for opening up the very difficult conversation about my Chicago you, wouldn't you wouldn't be no I'm about. What's going on here I mean: the time when you didn't have dialogue with anti Semites, you said: you're an anti semite go you Know- go go blow
go to hell. The instinct is desirable. Antisense think the initial is good, though, to say maybe you stepped on a land mine here and you didn't know it, but after after twenty eight, when I land mine yeah, I mean you got, it is just you show the the mind I don't demand well, I don't demand an apology from Anti Semites, because their anti Semites and what they, what that, what they should be done, is crushed yes, but they look at. I one thing: that's really concerning to me about how these debates play out on Twitter, in particular, is the swiftness with which- and I think it was right about this, the swiftness with which someone who's accused of Anti Semitism, which in Omar's case was completely reasonable thing to accuse her of being many times over is read definition of Anti Semitism right, so then they say. Well, I just oppose Israel's policy. Does that make me an antisemite and then there's this back and forth where they try to change? The move the goal posts about what is Anti Semitism and what is not- and this is exactly what we saw in the
You know the ongoing war with that the women's March and Linda source, or in some of these other people and they're, very cozy relationship with with the nation of Islam. So I think that, unfortunately, is harder to combat because of the media cycle and and and the power and force of social media and and This is actually really bad at Twitter and you would think that, as she need someone to run her twitter account for her, because she just keeps doing this, which in some ways is beneficial 'cause. We see what she really thinks, but I am concerned about. You know most people. And getting their news on it through the sources and and not really understanding what Anti Semitism mellow reached the point at which point it. The consensus becomes that she's just a really bad messenger right, you for in general and relatable, or at least to her how you'll discuss well well on the
for the fact that Democrats are gonna, now are now being forced by the behavior of ill on mark to to confront the fact that they have soft pedaled. Her Anti Semitism in the antisemitism of others that may be is worth some shopping for it. And now the final shot in fried egg leaves the political realm and goes into journalism, and that is Jill Abramson. The first female editor of the New York Times fired in twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen has now written a book called merchants of truth. Julie, sin is a was a reporter for many years of, in my view, questionable provenance, her book on Clarence, Thomas written with Jane Mayer, strange justice, is a piece of garbage, but okay, she rose to the Wall Street Journal. She with the New York Times runs the New York Times gets
she's rich, she's written this book and the book is somewhat hostile to the to the? What to vice that media company, at which our friend, Michael Moore and him work. Some Michael Moynihan, who is a very dog getting interesting, got a reporter, goes through the book and finds two on questionable instances of out and out play. Major ISM in the book sentence is repeated word for word it once in his role in the book out. She goes. She is like one of those people who is like I journal now imitating ridiculous voice. If you I say it's ridiculous 'cause, you got to go. Listen to her bizarre, but she's like I am the person who does the New York New York. I, my religion and all this, and so she she she Has this book to defend it was supposed to be her great statement of the value of journalism in our time and and and she now has to fight these accusations of play, which aren't actors are these actual proofs of plagiarism and Brian and the
This thing that Brian Stelter of CNN wants to do is like attack. Jill Abramson is a plagiarist, but he has to ask her the quest hum he as it doesn't matter. This is let yesterday on CNN Stelter. It doesn't matter if I put a footnote three hundred pages later. If I do that in the book that's plagiarism, word for word stealing other peoples, work and Abramson's response? This is because she had said over the course of the week that she had been sloppy with footnotes which they really doesn't answer. The question is: that's your position. I don't see it that way said Jill Abramson so basically the editor of the New York Times writes a book and plagiarizes passages from other people's work in In the course of human history, this is the sort of thing that is supposed to destroy somebody's karere, an make them persona non, grata, forever, uh and we'll see. If that happens, I
love this self righteous leftist in journalistic garb. Who is done disgusting hit pieces on other people? That's hoist on her own petard that schadenfreude I'm enjoying this immensely. Let's see where it goes, I mean the one thing is: if there are two sentence, is in the vice sections there, This is in the other parts of the book to be one thing. If she was contrite about that at all, she probably get some some can build described about play. She's she's talked about how proud she is that she doesn't record interviews, for example, and and paraphrase essential afterwards and said in, like she talks about this, like it's her method anyway, you can't, by the way, be contrite about plagiarism. That's part of the problem. It's a little like a live situation was a bit more and then it's like. Contrite about being a kleptomaniac. It's like! Oh I'm, sorry. I didn't really mean to walk out of Tiffany's with earrings in my ears, like you know, you don't get the right to claim people when people at the claim it in the past there
I'd say always was. I was cutting and pasting and I didn't know the quotes came from someone. Nobody who is ever written anything believes it because everybody knows when they wrote a sentence because it hurts to write a sentence anyway, so schadenfreude very high order. We gotta go you I want to apologize for something I said on the last guess where I said that child answer is no different from other forms of cancer. That was incorrect and some people of taking me to the woodshed over it, and I gladly their criticism. Man apologize with that. For Christine Rose and Noah Rothman, Andy Greenwald, I'm John Podhoretz keep the candle burn
Transcript generated on 2019-11-10.