On the second of this week's podcasts, I get into it with Noah Rothman on whether the president's behavior toward his attorney general and the new White House communications director's conduct toward the White House chief of staff constitute a "plan" of action or whether we are just living through nihilistic chaos. Where does Abe Greenwald come out? You'll have to give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
some guy well into the Commentary magazine Pike yesterday today is Thursday July. Twenty seventh twenties I'm John Paul towards the editor of Commentary magazine these seventy two year old monthly into actual analysis, political probity and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective. Join us, a commentary magazine dot com, where we give you a few free reads and then asked you to subscribe, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five, it's a digital subscription, twenty men, eighty five it's you and all access subscription, including our beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times a year with me, as always,
Meanwhile, our senior editor hello, Abe, I John and no around Men are associated with. It are high Noah, I John so, gentlemen. We are apparently now in the Jacobin phase of the trumpet. Straighten in which the war of all against all are you called the Moscow Purge trials phase or you could call it the extreme But when you add a royal better, what would you call that the fighting with the guys the guy is fighting Floyd met, met? May whether, though, extreme fighting on. I M M F whenever it is right and what is its much mixed. Martial arts fighting, ok, so I've been going with bath party purge the basque part. I like that one that that's a there's, a trivia question. People are gonna dimension, like twenty thirty saying what party was Saddam Hussein, the leader of seeing if anyone can remember
ok. So basically, what we have now is anti scare maltese starts as the White House Communications director and starts going after openly after White House. You staff rights previous who is, as nominal, was superior and Supervisor Raymond Org charred, although he only were spoil he apparently reports to the president, Tromp Donald Trump is, of course, and now weak. Three of attacking attorney we'll Jeff sessions publicly on twitter without saying without fire the guy, which is, as you know, on question right as as the president he can fire cabinet secretary at Will. What other all we got. The present attacking Tom Price, the health and Human services secretary at the boy Scout M show the boys go to really thrilled to hear that he might fire. The price of the healthcare build doesn't go. Well
There is some weird rearguard action against Secretary of State Rex tellers and either that or extortion as desperate to get home to Texas, where which he never should have left them you're sitting crying in the seventh floor office of foggy bottom of that why on earth he accepted this job in the first place, when he doesn't care about it and has no interest in it, and is you know making of hash out of american foreign policy and the you know basically, two hundred years of death tradition. Nor am I missing anybody. I think that's that right now, that's the dismissal of Russia to quell Sean's visor resigns is oppress Secretary and then well. Today's our deputy pressure, Michael Short, resigns after being attacked publicly by Anthony scary movie who attacks him and Politico says he's weaker and then literally an hour later goes on television and says you guys. You're also mean
you know, you're saying that I'm gonna fire, Michael Short and I haven't even have a chance to talk to the guy and as a Catholic, Emily human being, I feel you know you you're you. This is a terrible thing, he was the one who told politico he was gonna fire, Michael Short, so basically, one of the ways in which scare mochi is like Trump is. Apparently he literally will say one thing: thirty minutes after he said the opposite, with no either shame or knowledge that here, said the opposite of the anything I say Miss is, at this all sits atop the ban in Jared lead, which is all about that so two weeks ago, exactly dude, that's two weeks ago, Yet for all we know there now, like a dinner for profound personal alliance against this against these new interlopers very will be true
scam which, of course, the go. Where began a press conference by saying he seen Donald Trump through a spiral like three hundred yards through a football pussy spiral through attire, excellent debts by ghetto and then like Github, shot three hundred yards and you ve seen Donald Trump: do you think he can throw us but dead spiral through a tie? I would like to see him square often were against Chris Christie and in just such a torrent. I mean, I'm sorry that you know people are always saying the world that you know we're too hard on Trump and give him a chance and give thee. But you know you can't look at this and not you a crying, you got a laugh because the preposterousness of this spectacle is and all reckoning I don't know, is there anybody who I understand, people who love tromp going to say this is all
part and parcel of a genius plan to do get out, subway these playing eight dimensional chests and all that. But we have all worked in organizations in our lives. Imagine that this was that this was your workplace all. This is what we endeavour to do today, right to establish whether or not this is all impulse or whether there is a method to write. So as Noah says we been, let me just tell you before the show we gotta very heated argument. And we will now try to conduct this argument with rat with less heat and more light on it, Question of whether or not there is design and purpose in the Behaviour of the present United States on personnel matters over the last couple of weeks. Or whether, in fact, what we are seeing is a kind of wildly. Indeed,
supply in self destructive trend in the president's behaviour that was certainly present during the campaign, but then, in the end of course, did not work. So injurious that he failed to win the presidency. One. The presidency does That wasn't, it doesn't mean that he won the presidency because of it certainly seem like he won. The presidency, in spite of an unforgettable, would say that the attacking cozier com, the gold star parent, was helpful in his efforts to when the presidency or that attacking judge, Curry Alva Judge in the case of his trump universally lawsuit was helpful to his winning the presidency and there's those are probably the closest analogues to what he has been doing on twitter In the last couple weeks, so Abe Canoe, since no one, I think, have Wellesley
doubtless positions that we will we will in a bit. Can you maybe provide some sense of what the two arguments would be one from design one from no design right well, in the specific case of the Jeff sessions at TAT, right that your work with our door just right outside biggest. Obviously right I mean the the idea is that no one has said, and you will explain it at great length in that, Trot was doing this to supposedly soft the ground for getting rid of sessions, because people want, and they are. This is this- is his version of certain services, one right right and this is this is this? Is it this? Is us aside? This is what I don't
The truth is, I don't think it is a plan, so I dont really see how this helps okay. Well now I will tell you over your rethinking minority before even writing. I lie that's my fault. It's my fault. I have died. I will unlike Donald Trump I will admit to having having badly managed the opening of the negotiations. So please go ahead. Marcel we're thinking about Donald Trump, all wrong he's, not a constitutional asked. He doesn't understand the presidency power structures and what happens to me now you know that delineated systems by which one department answers to another and etc, but he does Understand his position and he does understand power, and he does understand constituent dynamics and he knows how to me those things and we entered this presidency. Knowing the Donald Trump manages his organization, a very tight knit organization
in Trump Organization and the campaign through competing power centres. He creates little five items and he sets those five times against one another and through it all, he manages to maintain his position. This is how he entered the White House. His two first hires were rights previous a member of the establishment republican wing of the party who wanted him to bow to the race after the access. Hollywood tape vary from skeptical person who sort came to terms with Donald Trump Boat. Wasn't really thrilled with them. Anti abandoned represents the precise opposite, William S party. These were to competing power centres. He wanted them under his way. And that's how he manages organizations. This is how We can see the purges because we're in the midst of the first of what will be many purges. Mr scary movie, your time will come rights previous sessions, price till her son drawn the bubble, but in order to make those purchase, stick
you need to soften the beaches? As I said, so, we seen people like the family Research Council members The council is a very conservative social conservative organization, Bright Bart, throwing brush back pitches at the president, foregoing after Jeff Sessions, in the way that he has and a variety of members of Capital Hill who have allowed just ass, installers, lotta goodwill in Hell. So even in order not to lose these guys, he is developing casings Jeff sessions, counter argument to that which John will eliminate them not going to step on his toes too much is that you could have just cut him right off, and this would have hurt a lot last taste the band aid off. But I don't think that's true, because the effort is to go after the Mueller probe right, so everybody's, very just comforted with the idea of the President going after the Mueller probe. They really will unleash a political fire, so he's establishing some sort of a cat, a just cause for termination, and doing so in a sort of methodical
way, albeit on that sort of convoluted. If he understood purges, he would look to the twentieth century and he would execute them as they were executed thoroughly and competing completely by coercing a confession. By getting a patsy to implicate Jeff sessions in some sort of all of us, torment, terminate able offence and to have the members of his party by into that by executing the punishment, or at least in the punishment? Okay, so Here's, what you are saying, is doing a purge, but he's doing it stupid, ok. Here's way wrong for swords on average, for the president to shift staff at the White House. President after purge everyone, the White House serves the displeasure. If he doesn't like how chief staff is doing is like press is doing you places like anybody like any organization.
I agree that we have learned over time that he and his organization created Independent regretted, computing power centres and have them contest with each other for supremacy, I agree that that may be what is going on here. What I will state for the record is it is profoundly stupid and I'll explain why very simply The White House is a player in its own and in its own way. If it does not say with one voice and if it does not have one vision and if it does not have one approach, it is an ineffective and ineffectual organization because unlike the Trump organization which is a privately held company with its owner at the time
totally dominating an end, with no one having any recourse or were or method to remove him. Like it's a publicly held company, you can go to the stockholders, you can you know we can survive. Courage, stockholders revolt or you can go to the board and say that the guy is bad and is doing bad in something happened, but that's not the way it is in a held company lard and those also run by family right. Ok, so in war, since in the White House, is the personal office of the President. Of offices in the White House are overseen by the Congress, the officer management and budget and, to some extent some of the foreign
All the aspects of the National Security Council, but otherwise, not the White House is an in easy is the personal office of the President President is of course one of the three Coequal member personal or serve is the figure that represents. One of the three coequal branches, the government. Everybody else in the executive branch has more Then one master has the White House President serves cabinet secretaries and people work for the White House by at every cabinet department is overseen by congressional committees who provided with its money and who are responsible for oversight. Cabinet secretary does not have totally way and can be tied up in knots if he gets or she gets crosswise of the congressional committees that over
their departments. Therefore, and of course, Congress thousand Senate, there are five hundred thirty five elected representatives in Washington and nine Supreme Court justices, none of whom work for the present that, as John became specifically said in his rather stunning speech coming back from areas on the vote on the healthcare bill on Tuesday said We do not work for the president. We are equal to the president. We in the Senate, we in the house we Congress there all elected by A different bodies there, you know different constituencies and they have some say over his department of the President, doesnt have a functional white house that you don't we so ass to his tone and does what he needs to do and thinks understands implicitly what it is that he wants and isn't a hot
of internet seen fighting why has the hype elementary missing? Fighting? It is a failed White House and the administration will fail and the impulse to set up your personal office to do that is a destructive and self. Attractive impulse either out of ignorance, because Trump doesn't pay attention day. Thing and hasn't, doesn't know anything about politics and does know anything about Washington or out of a malevolent misunderstand king of how to get done what it is that he wants to get done now You think that these two things are mutually exclusive. I do not. I think that this is a sign of a self destructive paranoia where he viewed perceives himself to be surrounded by traders, particularly the old Bolsheviks, and he wants.
Gone, but the old Bolsheviks. Even that is a bizarre. If you think about it, the administration is literally six laugh ones old or seven months. Elections has been around in his mind. Sessions was one of the originals up a motorway and I'm sorry digging up on. You know about it, but I don't think it's a purge in it at all. The real, but it really don't they get it. It is any sort plan. What does it mean Hence me is the following places: right barred. Are they don't want trumped fire sessions? They also don't like Trump attacking sessions. They don't like these was tweets at all. So to assure them. He's just continue to do the same he's not building a case at all. He simply ranting. This is what he would do. If there were no plan anyway, which kind of me by definition, certainly not a plan visit trump all these attacks at as attacks with him always are our personal
This is no different than when he goes after the failing New York Times or when he goes after winning one after a little Marco or low energy jack. But now it's beleaguered Jeff. Essentially I don't, I think it is entirely about impulse. Ok, evidence to suggest that there is some method to this. Madness came in the form of a bizarre series of tweets yesterday morning, in which the president said speaking for his generals in his military dot, dot dot. Ten minutes elapsed that fused banning trance. Your people from the military. There was no plan for this Pentagon. Wasn't aware of it. Pentagon, don't have a statement ready Pentagon directed all the questions back. The White House Pentagon set Joint Steve Chiefs of Staff, say today nothing has changed. There is no policy in place. This was merely an effort by the president to change subject also to do something that the or mention family, research, council and social conservatives really want him to do why would he be closing up to people who are
now on this, the procession side in sort of changing the subject if it wasn't trying to ingratiate himself in order to, As we said earlier, softened the beaches for a land, ok,. If you wanted to change the subject from sessions to A transgender ban and the military to be pleasing to people who are upset with him about going after sessions. He would not, then thirty four minutes after announcing the transgender ban, put out a tweet attacking sessions, whereas exactly what he did at suggests that he is actually trying to do something. That's that sort of contrived that's a plan, even those stupid, I totally disagree. I think you don't tap on your own. Huge story of the day by
infusing things by issuing something only half an hour before it's what you thought, he probably thought he D done the job and then a half hour leaders like ok, that's the only conceivable defence for your position is that we had already. He had already to assume that he would get credit for it could start going after. Sessions. Again I find that hard to believe I mean we have to be I forgot. What we're talking about is a plan we know he will hunt sessions out that that in itself does not constitute plan. Ok, now, let's talk about that for a second. So my scenario is that it is true that he started doing this thing. That has I mean, I'm pretty sure, never happened before in in american political history, which is that a president openly and publicly Attacking a member of his own cabinet day after day and in speeches em on twitter, but obviously Twitter didn't exist until ten years ago, but
So it's never happened before right, so let's say that he is doing because he wants sessions to resign, because he has the fire sessions you want sessions to resign he's like bullying him into resigning. Ok,. How? If you do this for a week in a half and then sessions resigns? What is the distinction between sessions residing in your firing him if the purposes. Concessions to leave the office. It will begin clear that sessions resigns. He is resigning because of this bullying and Sofia just ripped off the band aid and fired him ten days ago or twelve days ago, would have been all this while you were fired sessions and he then, if he had then called in
conservatives and concerns organizations that why hasn't said. I have lost confidence in Jeff sessions, whom you know I like and who was an early endorsed mine, because I believe that his refusal has harmed the Justice Department it has left You know it is created. The conditions under which ROD Rosen Stein is now running. The Russia is the overseer of the rush investigation. I have no confidence that he is not part of a conspiracy to try to oust me from office being led by call me and his friend meal. And Rosen Steiner, some participant in this and you I need you now more. Than ever to have my back, because you understand that you don't look at the don't look at the time. As for the forest sessions is not important year, what's important as they want to they want to you now, invalidate
results of the election and call me out of the presidency. Now feed said that too bright barred and an coulter- and you know the family research can Poland, the evangelicals and all of that, because they board bought the line that this is what the left wants to do and save a lot of them have already bought the line that, because Mueller as hired Hilary young people of donate Hilary, like the president, the I'd states himself did that. That is a sign that he wants to cool. The president from office, if he had done that, I think he would have got them on his side. I think his attacking sessions personally is what has caused these people like sessions to go. That's nice Why is he doing? Merit sessions was now sessions with a job. He was a senator Alabama he quit the Senate to become the attorney general and now he's
treated like crap by his boss, like everybody, there's no person on earth who can have some sympathy for the idea that getting attacked by your boss isn't like an incredibly unpleasant things Have happened yet. That's me, that's kind of what I was trying to get it he's not here that's not softening the beaches, he's a he's antagonizing, those that he would according this plan need on a site? Well, the bandaid rip scenario may just may get some of these members of the quorum quote Trump Base the infinitesimal Trump base, which we overrun on this side- and they would have been ok with sessions defenestration, but he's going after the Mueller probe, so you're going to have who antagonize a whole lot of other people who can make your life really miserable on the hill? Let's he's going,
after the man. If you do the bandit rip, you make that that that's the nuclear option, because the effect of that to dismiss the energy means that the energy duties devolved to Rosen's time steam, stone and or Rachel Brand, and these people are necessarily going to be team trump and they ignites. Very close to the tenor of the tone of the debate around. It would be constitutional crisis. Ok, so are you prefer you then suggesting that what he is trying to do is get sessions to do things he wants sessions to do without firing. As I know, we want them to raise our. Does. He want em to farm you're? Well, he'd, Bluffed! Ok, ok so Meanwhile, ok you're using Wittmanniana, more Resistance hill, so there
two possibilities. Your base of this argument comes down to disrupt, have a design that stupid, or does he not have a design and is acting stupid? Ok, so either way you have somebody acting stupidly and I didn't want stupid design, as is the opposite of just wanna, go through these stupid, stupid thing, big As everyone says, you need to give trumpet chance. Well, if you want to to succeed, if you are somebody who thinks Trump can drain the swamp and his good blog there's. Gonna save America, Magua is gonna, bring jobs back and in Ghana restore them. It working class in everything. You should be horrified at what's going on here, because he is is impeding his own ability to get anything done by obsessing over secondary issues or by war by creating chaotic management crises in his own person,
data Day office that are deeply injurious to any positive agenda that he might wish to we'll get now. I would say that in the end, this was totally predictable. It's one of the reasons that a lot of us said he was unfit for the office because the office requires If, even though everyone who holds the office, I'm sure is got some form of deeply profound, you now narcissism and do you know, personality disorder that leads them to believe that their great enough to pay around the world, and all that you still have to focus on matters outside of your own person and pursue all's than are pretty fun, our down the road in ordered, succeed as a president, you need to understand that it take sixty nine months to pass a major piece of legislation that every action that you take in the course of that letter.
Situation needs to help further its prospects for success. We are talking about this person. Like he's a president, I dont think you, thanks in those terms right or not posterity in generations of very no, and in fact, I think he finds out about posterity mobility in the position in which he is an ok. But that's. Why he's that's? Why he's either stupider crazy? Because this the ability of the position he has in is only being hampered by himself. He stable and secure in the position he doesn't need there too. The war of all against all in his office like Stalin, who had two purges entire party. No one. Has the ability to come into his office and say we're taking you out like that's not the way America works. Nobody is the position to oust him from his office. So if he's ignorant of the constitution, the
You wish, but we are not saying ignore the constitution. Even he knows that he got into his head that he didn't have to get rid of the tromp organization because he was immune from prosecution, while he was an officer, emoluments lies in their amendments. Ok, but he had. Another definition is apparently that well said at times to paranoid, acted in a paranoid, do have enemies, he has enemies, but I mean like structurally speaking Stalin, was not incorrect, that you know if he killed everybody, nobody would come after him. We wouldn't wooden. Be Brutus and cautious and come after him with a knife in stab em in the Kremlin. Like he killed everybody and everybody else was living in a state of absolute terror that they might be next, and so they were paralyzed into inaction for, and he ran the country untrammelled for thirty years, and look Russia. Russia, then takes over from him and basically and then you know how long is it before crucial was called out? Violence Icu Eleven inaccurate.
But a decades less than thirty purpose was thirty years, for it was for years for himself and the icon that statement along. I have government by assassination the bath party. Purge. Look, I'm not I'm not! I don't even like these analogies. I'm just say that if you want to go with, if you want to go with a paranoid, his enemies fine and if he wants to be paranoid about his enemies as enemies or the Democrats and they're, not right previous and his enemies or not, you know All I'm saying is like even the way handled, bringin scare me, Jim firing, spice or so fire spice, sir. He also says I you know she's a good guy, just wasn't doing the job. I knew them to do. No, it's nobody's business spacers, not representatives of the american people here These are hack, who was brought in the White House and did a lousy job like it's no big deal. Every turns into a crisis like who the hell cares. What was pressed secretary is.
They may remember. Wool bushes last press secretary was look think this Ebay, remember Scott Mc Clellan by them Now you know well known, remember Scott name they only about they offered them Obama's first press secretary gives ok good but you, but they always do for a living. You play. They all got a tv now anyway. So so yes, it was, gives didn't gotta tv they go. Meanwhile day Ivan Cinnamon Tv Meares, but look Think this is once again a case were bringing far too much intellectual energy to bear on these essentially ironic actions, and I think that trumpet is going after sessions day after day be specifically because sessions wooden leave wooden stepped up, How dare he not take the blame for the probe, as I wanted him to that's whatever naturally expects of everyone we wouldn't want when winning,
He made it clear that he wasn't gonna leave. That is such a thorn from side. That is, that is such an outrage to his sense of Vigo and his perverted sense of loyalty that that he can't let it go, Ok! Can I shall just real quick. This thing didn't become the thorn in his side that we talk about it until it started closing in on his family. He excused himself in February this wasn't this be, deal that it was until a couple of weeks ago. This is This is now in the effort to go against the Mueller probe, because it's getting close to something we don't know why, but something- and he doesn't like it it doesn't make a lot of sense to say that this was always no window weight as we know what it is. We know it, so he hired White collar criminal attorneys to work for him and is circling around trying to establish whether or not there was any behaviour by the Trump or position in an towards Russia. That would have inclined Russia to believe that it has the capacity to influence the Trump Organization and the Trump campaign and play some role in getting him elected
is it would have some because in this theory that truck that, by the way there's no method here is sort of. I dont think that, though some affair affair but that's not method, that's very that's very play. Like all I'm saying is he can look at this if he's a totally and innocence You can send a hold on a minute like now. Your life looking into my company. Behavior. That's that now or if you were rational, mule and not the rat. Miller's can have confidence contact with Trump, but doubt idea would be that it if, if Bueller's doing this, it will be helpful. Jump in the long run if Mueller abolishes that there was no collusion. If he establishes that there was no collusion, not harmful but helpful because it will close the subject off boiler says the Trump organizations behaviour. In an rounded towards Russia played no role whatsoever in the twenty sixteen campaign It would be helpful to him a wolf
shadow- will be in our shadow- will do art over his administration over questions about whether or not the election was legitimate, nor that so Of course that's one of these things where you look at it and you say well what is it he's afraid of like let whatever this is also wires, Mr Release or tax returns, so that for transparency creates outlined above by the way I am now going to break and go into the other crazy story. Out of the White House, which was ass. He scrambled you last night, this Wednesday night tweeting that the release of his financial disclosure forms was a criminal leak and he was going to demand that the Justice Department find the liquor and prosecute him and these Karmu g provided is financial disclosure forms to the export Import Bank where he was employed before he got this job in the White House. Those are matters of public record,
there's a thirty day period in which those records are to remain private, at which point any single person can get by writing a letter or going over physically to the office in question and asking for the financial disclosure documents, which is what political did in getting them so scared. Mochi, basically implicitly accused Ryan's previous of leaking his financial disclosure forms criminally to politico. That was a slander. Other he's continued with it today But it is not true, it has to be said, and there and the person s political who got the form says I got them from the export Import Bank it is not a leak because it is a quickly available document and it was didn't supply. It anyway, therefore scare Mukoki has started his tenure. Liberalising and slandering his co worker
Twitter, claiming if, implicitly, though, we didn't save explicitly, there's more tat rides previous was committed criminal act. It will you, domain d, in the in between you and stand that previous could soon scare mochi today for slander. According to scare Mochi, who spoke with somebody is the Washington Post on our right. He was he went on CNN today, where he said of through France, wants to defend himself, is illegal and defend himself, and anybody who interpreted that tweet by the way, according to scare mochi as him, accusing rights as being leaguer, suggests that rights is the leaker because they know he's the leaguer. And they're they're. Leaving to that conclusion, because he's linked to them before skirmish, he went to the president and requested the opportunity to speak about, ran something and accordingly scare machinery says that the president signed off on it
by the way Galleon Conway was on Fox and friends, who said that filling out disclosure forms is quote, demoralising and prevents people from wanting to work. The White House without is a vital one. Oh, by the way characterize these financial disclosure of information is quoting quote leaked from the, not ok, first of all, colleagues is correct. There is nothing more horrible than filling out disclosure forms, there's nothing I mean I haven't done it in thirty years. I don't have any money, I've done them in the yard of that's on as it is. You know. What I want to say is: I was twenty. I was twenty seven years old when I had to fill out material for Anne S. If eighty six clearance form the one that Jared Cushion or keeps amending, falsely whatever so twenty seven years old, which meant that I had to fill and my parents had lived in the same address from the time I was born to automate was eighteen and I had to.
All I had to do was fill out where I lived from the time I went to college till I was twenty seven, that's it I wasn't forty. I wasn't fifty had no money, nothing, ok and where my sister's lived and where my friends, let us am I nearly a nervous breakdown filling at this form of that was the nineteen eighty eight. So you now imagine I imagine now if I had to sit down and fill out that form in which you begin your lot. You begin with the danger of your birth, where you live. Who's your landlord. What was your phone number? Where do you live next? What was this? What was that? Where did you were who is your supervisor at your job, how we how many foreign troops and you take. When did you take them? What were the dates of the trips all of the foreign troops who have ever taken so it is, actually true that filling out these secure being disclosure forms is a nightmare. It is a total nightmare and many people have forsworn seeking a public office because of their
Ireland's of this. You member, like just to give you a ridiculous example. Howard Stern was going to run for governor of New York. He was serious about it until he learned of the demands for more heated, one reveal it. He was making that's what nobody had to by law. Unlike you know actually had to fill out. Financial disclosure, foreman. Decided not to run for governor cause. I was gonna be a stunt that was. We now know it could have one who the hell knows, because you Wanted disclose? So that's that's true. It has literally nothing to do with that. So so so no one made Anthony scam achieved, decide to see public office say you didn't see coupled to seek employment in the it's a privilege, not a not a right to work in the White House, but it is a pain eminence and you know what else is a pain gentlemen. You know what else is a pain secured, security. Your home is a pain,
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so the week we have the Senate debating a non bill. The great triumph mitzvah camels procedural triumph this week was in getting the side to greet proceed with discussion of health care without an actual bill? So they have voted on and fair To pass to different health care reform measures, I believe rights are right so that they are safe failed to pass the inanity. Well then, ok, we're polio. Scared pills later for they didn't last Wednesday, fifteen repeal yes, first we did pass the Senate version of the healthcare reform bill, which is called Braga, which is by the way, this is insane name, because it is also the name of the of the gene package that ask him asked Jews have that causes breast cancer, so it was a really brilliant,
the better CARE Reform ACT named after a breast cancer gene. So somebody Mcdonald's offers is really. You know, that's why that's why people are hot pay, a hundred thousand hundreds of thousands eyes. They help name, companies and stuff like that. But Braga was, I think, a particular fully for anybody was had brown breschia, sir problems in their family. It was a horrifying. The decision to make that the acronym- let me just say so- Rocco, failed. Then, after the motion to proceed with the, Scutcheon of whatever health care build. You could possibly come up with past. And then they went into the simple repeal of Obamacare as ass, the Senate in twenty fifty and that death failed. So now they're gonna, discuss at some point skinny repeal
Can I go into the terms escape to look it up. It's like little bits and pieces of Obamacare the get repeal the medical device tax which nobody likes. The individual mandate- and I think one other thing- I can't remember- So the question. So this is healthcare reform, and this is the Republicans and healthcare for now, which is we ve been discussing Obamacare since twenty term rider since two thousand and nine but passing twenty ten and two thousand and thirteen explaining the reason why he thought it necessary to shut down the government in order to put pressure Democrats to allow were to consider a vote for the repeal of Obamacare TED Crews, in TWAIN, thirteen and then running again and twenty fifteen center tat grows
that if you didn't move on this fast, the prospects for the repeal of a bomb care would shrink dramatically as it was implemented, and that was absolutely correct. A thousand percent correct, as we have seen faced with the designer Roddam other Publican Party and conserve movement since twenty time, which was the repeal and replacement of a bomb care, the suppose it you know, move toward a nationalized healthcare system and regulation of the private insurance market to a degree that nothing no market has ever been regulated by the. U S: government, through the demand that every single citizen and personally made states pay a private but he money for something. Nonetheless, here we are and is clearly not going to happen, and whatever is whatever might happen that passes through the House and Senate assigned by the president will be some.
Band aid, I didn't know what it would be. It would be some it's like makeup on a bruise, it's like putting minnows like or you know, putting a you have alopecia and you put a wig on your head and claim that you've been cured of baldness. So pretty bad right. I mean, if you talk globally as a as an example of the sort of reason that people are cynical about government and hate government and hate what elected officials promise and don't deliver on and there to face at this and their cowardice, small, that is there. There is much that will compare this right so we'll here's. My question then so is it impossible to get rid of because in part of Trump competence and and and Mitch, Mcconnell failings, or could no one have done it because, in part,
of the bridge provided two states through medicate. Ok, well, here's what I would say so it took last Friday for our friend over Roy to get a leak out of The congressional budget office, or something like that, of course, the big number, the gradual budget office that has and so devastating to the effort to repeal Obamacare is the eyes the claim that We were between twenty one and twenty six million people will lose their health care if a republican reform bill is passed. No one has entirely understood what formula the congressional Budget Office has been using to figure out. This number were to project this number, but it turns out that, though they have not made a point of this according to the world,
seventy five percent, that number would be people with the individual mandate lifted. Who would choose voluntarily to stay out of the system? Seventy five percent right. So that would mean that, instead of it being twenty four percent it would have been twenty four million? It would be six million who would have been removed from the healthcare system, forcibly, let's say, or without recourse six million, not twenty four million. A minimally competent pr effort to fight Obama, care We have had this number in hand January twenty first, twenty seventeen. It would the first talking point now they were. We had a commercial budget office number then, but they could have had they made our delight request to say they as the Sybil. This question.
If we remove the interval visual mandate, how many people lose their health care and how many people lose their healthcare because they would voluntarily were removed themselves in system? The second question racial budge office, ex by answering questions and scoring bills, but answering questions and research. No one asked the sepia that question that would have been point one! So imagine that you start from the proposition six million people is their health care and say there is a way to figure out a way to subsidize their healthcare. You start with ease how do you ve saved six million people, not twenty four million people? What is it that you do based on their behaviour over the course of this debate? I can't imagine centre Collins, Mc Caskey caving on any of this. They say six million. They Magog a million they demagogue, a hundred thousand they're, not going to vote for anything that repeals coverage wet. And why? Because of what I was talking about, though that's the other point
medicate expansion. So then you down- and this was the genius of the Bill- the G yes, the political genius of the Obama CARE bill was in providing bribes to states in the four or five years of a hundred percent support for medical mansion, meaning that people who did not get medicate under the classic formula, which is that they live under the poverty line, but rather that they were somewhat significantly above the poverty line, but not thoroughly in conclusively in the middle class would be allowed to enroll in the Medicaid system and that the federal government Medicaid by the way is paid for half by the federal government and one slash two by the states that they would have one hundred percent of their coverage paid for by the states. This was an effort to make sure that Obamacare or the whole American. What was it called? The affordable care act would provide enormously increased coverage
Americans, and that the Medicaid aspect of it was a key element in hoping that number one make point tying in both discussions that we have had so far podcast about what limits finished. One point about this: if I can the play but this was that it wasn't just that it was a bright, but that it was a time limited bribe and that the point was, it was only five years of a hundred percent money, at which point you would then have each state would have any more people on the medicate roles and then the federal government money would evaporate from the expansion and each of these states would be on the hook for hundreds of millions more doll. Spending a year and therefore it was fiscal you're responsible for anybody, like John case it should govern the high or the governors of Main and Alaska,
where, both or in western Jerry, the Arizona right, ok, sister to sign onto it, because they were, they were signing there. There were signed their states up for eventual bankruptcy, but of course, genius of it- was, if you stretch out five years for the time that this first implemented None of those governors are still gonna, be governors, so let them left there. Screw their successors, let their successors deal with a budgetary crisis. They get the heroic they get to collect. They get the heroic Medicate expansion award tend to their chests ok. So that's why I will never be a pull back of federal government support from an engagement, do not of ice. I do not agree with you about that for while no every effort to extend medicate expansion is part of the republic and reform, if every stays the way. It is now medic the Medical,
Expansion is phased out, starting in twenty twenty and buy toys. Twenty two Ohio is gonna, be in you know, The position of Illinois and budgetary crisis The king could be saved the mega expansion. Could be saved and palm paid by one of these republican bells. That's also being kicked down the road and whose using the federal government is going to agree to it out to a giant
If thirty one states than silent America expansion, why should those very ones late subsidize the nineteen that did democratical house and that in it and President Kabila Harris would definitely sign an expansion in attacks increase? Remember this now we're getting into the weeds if you do a tax increase for Medicaid, that is an entitlement that goes into payroll taxes, so we are now talking about a possible massive increase in the peril tax. The one tax that every salary personally America pays without exception. Right off the top of your check every week. The point I wanted to make was: if Tromp was capable of executing some sort of strategic plan to get anything done. As as, as no argue regarding the his purge. We see from his complete inability
this interest and ignorance of any idea of have a cell healthcare, repeal that He has absolutely no ability to there's no interest in in in manipulating power in this way, only when it comes to attacking Jeff sessions and end as other enemies can do Can we say there's some sort of plan, but it just happens to be working with with with behaviour that he would have the he would have you would have done anyway. I think thus makes my point because agree. I president, who thinks like a president, would think in terms of posterity and achievements and longevity of his legacy, and he doesn't think that way thinks about his power in the moment and whose with them and who is not and there's paranoia fantasy reinforces itself. Does he doesn't have any interest in legislative achievements right, but but that's but that's crazy visited. Then we go back to the question of whether or not there is a plan, but we're not. Maybe the whole thing is that we have here a problem of
Thirdly, rhetoric or definition cause plan could mean anything, I think we're talking about like having a plan to have a successful presidency and your tongue, but having a plan to manage himself day to day the way he has done in his all his seventy. Years of life and the two I remember I to each other and the will destroy the other. If I disagree with that. Ok, if We have a presidency that is incapable of accomplishments and simply done by fear, meaning regulate certain regulatory lifting regulatory things and whatever else Can do on trade that doesn't require congressional oversight know that that will be a first in America. It'll be a first in american history than he did. He isn't basically out of office on running for a second term, with literally nothing to claim for himself and in in having managed things. I just don't think that we have suspended the laws APOLLO,
gravity here. You know. I don't think by the way that posterity is going to remember the Republican Congress here as being the problem, because no he remembers who the speaker of the house was in eighteen. Forty eight Nice. Forty eight, of course Harry Truman, want to surprise election. We have an enormous Republican, co congressional majority in nineteen, forty six, forty seven and his brilliant. Hey ran against the do nothing Congress, as it was called and of course, one the surprise victory over Thomas doing in nineteen forty eight, despite the fact that his own party had split and strong Thurman was running as Dixie Crack and Henry Wallace was run. The communist. Basically, and there were three people running as Democrats. If he still prevailed over Thomas, do
the Republican because he claimed that he was hampered in his Billy. Do things by do nothing Congress? The problem here, of course, is that let us trump going to claim trumps gonna say that he tried to do things. The Republican Congress stopped it All we see as the Republican called the leaders of the Republican Congress and the vast majority, the republican caucus trying to pass legislation that is helpful to him and to the problem party, and that is a relatively small number of people in the Democrats who were preventing them from happening but running against the muslim minority in saying the problem is, is do in twenty eighteen, the Democrats or just terrible, and he needs them. He needs were hobbled war. Republicans.
It's gonna be a hard claim to make when you have majorities in the house- and I mean, unless you really want to get in the weeds and try to convince voters that they need to provide a closer proof majority to to think the Trump voters. All that interested in the word closer example, so I don't know I think in the end. What this all reminds me of is the show battle stark lack the guy. I will conclude on this. The first couple: seasons bow sparkle, acting the second version of the one in the late Seventys was among the best television ever made in this country, and the whole set up was that there was this you now, fifty thousand survivors of earth or on a bar on basic Lana giant ship, and they
being pursued by this race of humanoid robots who are up to something and they have a plan. So two seasons, like the silence or the enemy, have a plan and their info trading the ship and you don't know who's a robot who's, not a robot and whose doing this and whose doing that they have a plan. And all question was what's the plan and then in clear after two seasons that the people who wrote to Show- and they have now since said. Thus, they said this event earlier this year in never clue at them as they deal with the date of their really get a second season, let alone that there was gonna, be five seasons of which they had to establish what the silent plan was. The could be defeated, so round about season three, they drop from the title sequence, the wines- and they have a plan. So I believe this is all over
I think he has a plan. I think that when they get to season three which could be in about five minutes, the Trump Whitehouse will drop the lines. We have a plan and then it just gonna, be you know what's today's at which I think is basically how we're living, what today's horror. What what? What are the tweets? morning that are just going to serve govern the conversation for other six hours and meanwhile the Iranians are shooting satellites into space in the north, Koreans are about to have intercontinental ballistic missile facility liability reach the Cardinal United States by next February and trumpets telling the boy scout January about Levin, town and Obamacare will collapse. Bobbio a collapse in trouble say was he's glad to collapse, which is really gonna, be politically helpful in the eye
that you're supposed to do things to improve the country. Now, if you have anything, not not crushingly morose, to conclude we're trying not to crush it, we're trying to avoid crushing morosely. Experts are fantastic reduction of Shakespeare in the park in New York, midst night's dream one of the best productions. I've ever seen so for coming to Your can you it's a nice day. You want to spend five hours online, trying to get tickets, it actually worth it Shakespeare in the park. I know they stab Trump. I know skip that. The word that productions over shouldn't stab Trump, not good idea shouldn't- have interrupted the play that was worse. I wanna talk about anymore. Can we not target? does anyone know a cheer me up? No, no! No! It's those like making us doing a site gag guns. I wanna podcast.
It was you who is likely bulges eyes were bulging in his expression was Not a plan, it's a per urges not apply that's the density, twenty twenty trumps. Bearing out it's not a plan to purge wish so far enough. Rossman and a Green Walled keep the gamble, burning.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-13.