After an hour of watching Steve Bannon expound on his worldview for CBS’ “60 Minutes,” the hosts of the COMMENTARY Podcast determine that very little was said. John Podhoretz, Abe Greenwald, and Noah Rothman break down the half-formed worldview of the Bannon-wing of the GOP and the implications if it successfully remakes the Republican Party. Speaking of victimized worldviews, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos earns and receives applause for going after the Kafkaesque world the Obama administration’s “Dear Colleague” letter yielded.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Some regions Oh, Welcome to the commentary magazine, podcast, I'm John onwards, the editor of commentary, the seventy two year old, monthly plan, legal analysis. Intellectual property and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective join us commentary magazine about come where we give you a few free weeds and ask you to subscribe nineteen. Eighty five gets a digital subscription, twenty nine eighty five gets you in all access subscription, including our beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox, eleven Times year. We close our October issue tomorrow with some of the best.
Essays and articles we have ever published and we will go into them in greater detail. A little later with me as. Always a green while our senior editor high Abe Hygiene, John and nor Rossman are associated or high Noah. I John So why pierce early early reckoning, but it appears that Florida dodged a thermonuclear bullet in the form of Hurricane Irma, that the damage was nowhere near as bad as ever but he dreaded it was going to be so well. We be, we begin nine eleven with without an American full on disaster, and we think back, of course, to the attack that inaugurate
be the new era of american history that has come to seem so one unsettled and unfulfilled and unrealized Thee predictions that what we had the head of us were? A long war have turned out to be truer than anybody anticipated and of course, one of the consequences of that fifteen years later was the election of Donald Trump. Last night, ousted Whitehouse, chief strategists de bandit, went on sixty minutes for his first television interview ever and Basically, we made the case that Trump ISM. Ah
is a revolutionary philosophy that will itself take twenty years to be realised that the training of the swamp, the all racial Washington me, we direction of american politics and a more populist, more or less it illogical. More, even how you call it Moura. Their dreaming of the swamp will take. Twenty years is what he said and that in that way it was not fair to judge now from based on me a mere eight months of effort in this regard that had done that had yet to seek that it get to see fruition that's a prettier. That's a pretty easy cover story for any presidency. To say: look, don't judge! Don't judge me by by this period of time, judging by the next twenty years right,
Well, I mean the interesting thing about. It is the first of all its both easy and historically inadequate, because by eight month, into the Bush presidency, which was, of course by had headed legitimacy? Overhang, as I recall right, the old question of whether or not the Supreme Court's decision to end How to end the recounts and grant Bush the presidency. You know we'll called his called his presents into question. Despite that, Bush got through the Bush tax cuts and no child left behind before nine slash eleven and Morocco Bomb of course got the stimulus, the second part of health and the top and tough and got the partial nationalization of the auto industry through. So these are the two previous president's who had sobs Daniel and very
a very large accomplishments under their under their belts before you know, before the Steve Bannon before the time period alluded to by sea ban, and so I think, that's a pretty weak. That's pretty weak sauce. Just from that right. Under the other thing,. At the twenty year frame. Is that it really does suggest that conservatives are now war conserve, as I would think bans are concerned, but the trump from peons or now Linsky AIDS. This is the elite ski position, which is that you can never fulfil your promises so that everything you do will never be adequate. Sufficient. So you keep your side in a state of perpetual. In an enticing, like everything need still to happen in order to get to the perfect fulfilment of your vision, ivory, president, its and when they get unpopular, appeals to posterity in suggests
out. There will be a reckoning fur for us when you guys come around to the idea that everything we ve done has been good. The problem with the Trump administration, as they haven't done anything nothing little survived the testing of another president does not republican But, of course, that's the swamps, vault rights, the swamp see he doesn't payment and the The balance between the interview is that Paul, Ryan and Mitch Mcconnell want to destroy and deal legitimize Donald Trump. Now that an absurdity because they had a chance to do that. Their chances, that was in twenty sixteen, and they literally did not do it like they could have stood up and said this man cannot be allowed to be president, and they could have done a lot. That would have gotten Hillary Clinton elected in a lot of people who were in the never Trump camp, the ones who litter we came to the position. The hill we couldn't would be were disappointed that Mcconnell and and Ryan did not. You know basis
we come out in opposition to Trump at the point at which they could have done him real damage. Everybody seems to think that the the ban and wing of this party has, as philosophy and they're trying to impose it on Donald Trump, who has no ideology and so is kind of resistance to it. But when I heard last night was this incoherent mishmash of ideas that have been either debunked over the course of history is being counter productive, protectionist ideas, for example, native est, ideas to self evidently false conceptions about who constitutes a native s in the United States and economic journalists populist it's all just bunch, blather that doesnt translate into any the ology. That's part of the region, why it's failing is that it does not really have any sort of cogent through line that somebody can emulate, not just because Donald Trump has no interest in it in emulating it. There is I think, to mimic. That's also its appeal, among those to whom this all appeals. I mean you know that the the
anti ideology of fervour is, is right real? I, but that's affect that's possible. Apps rebel at all is right. So, as long as you have an effect in a posture, you can abandoned night, but look Turning to ban it right Mcconnell brought Trump a schedule and they said here's how we're gonna do this work. Do healthcare for us or in our appeal and replace, and then we're gonna, do tax reform and then we're gonna. Do infrastructure and It was their promise and look what happened. They got nothing done, except that that sea, whence is not was not entirely they're doing number one number two They had various ideas about how to advance both tax reform and health care in tandem. Largely everything, problematic ideas. As I said on the on the last podcast about the border adjustment tax which which, which run,
I am bought into, which was an effort to create a new Sis to fund projects of the federal government and to create a tax reform that would also give provide much. To help deal with them. I'm a care. That was Ryan's first, his idea of what what should be done first and trump next it here Did you get that money in order to have money to build a bridge, to throw some money, the boar, while for trumpet exchange for a new way of calculating things, and that way Fit in with trumps general philosophy that the treaty that the problem was that we were, we had a tax system. That was harming our exports and imports of this would be a wave of of restructuring that I think it's a bad idea by the way, but it's not, as the ride didn't actually somehow come to try to find a policy that would that would merge classic republican tax reform interests with TAT
own populist national was an. Border all of that stuff, and it was true said no, so that's proposed, arrests and secondly, they come to Trump and Trump as we said on this podcast and as every alot of people, said the most terrifying thing- the trump could have done- two unsettled the swamp and to change everything would have been call in structure and Mcconnell and Ryan and policy in November and say I want to build a trillion dollar infrastructure package which would have both broken the backs of the Democrats. That's because they wanted it and didn't want to do anything to make common cause with him and with when the bus busting, nature of it would have sealed the doom of the original concept of the tea party about what its purpose was, which was to restrain spending and basically
sell it sold to trump on her his own new ones, standing of how he wasn't gonna are these orthodoxies in republican policy, but we now woods would do things that we're gonna help people in this country that did at the end he didn't do he didn't do infrastructure right at and by the way, it will also was exactly what the kind of thing that ban and was hyping way back when, after from first gotta let the day was was was that there was going to be stored. Erin infrastructure programmes was gonna, be now wasn't. It was before he should have took them. This twenty year, combat morally right. So I wouldn't be so sure that that window has entirely past. I do think the Democrats want nothing more than to humiliate him. They have no economic or political agenda that isn't anti trump and see singular organizing principle behind the whole party in they can't afford to jettison it. That being said, Donald Trump
to Nancy Policy. Internal humor for two seconds struck a deal with them and it was on his desk in forty eight hours through a Republican Control Congress right well, so, to give an example of the of the complications of the infrastructure bill or any mass events or infrastructure project issue. Ah, the complications there too so. The most important infrastructure project of the United States is a rail tunnel between New York and New Jersey. Almost everybody in America who knows about infrastructure knows this is
that north eastern as it is in a potentially catastrophic situation in which the failure of the commuter tunnels and the Tran, the rail tunnels between you know that separate me, York from the rest of the country, physically from from the would be an economic disaster of colossal proportions of you know- and this is something that has been needed and is were heading into disastrous territory. That fact, should they had a meeting about it last week at the White House? No were, but no no Republican want this to be it at once. Our government to devote twenty billion, thirty billion dollars to the to the gateway project. This is a Democrat. These are two democratic states with democratic I mean Christy's now the governor of New Jersey, but he won't be much longer to democratic senators tool for democratic sellers tool to democratic governors, and it would be the most important project.
It's so certainly Schumacher wants it. Certainly, Pelosi wouldn't mind it, but MA am Macao and Ryan have no political incentive to reward these states. That are you now going fast in the direction of being in the harness the hardline blue states, so again, Trump as a vision. If he were a visionary leader wanting to upset the entire structure of american politics him through all the cards up, and It was on advantage, would pursue, so aggressively but does. Doesn't pursue anything aggressively as it happens and clear, things that he boast wants is a pursue the border while aggressively doesn't a couple of citizens against the Muslim Ban, and that sort of vanishes like he doesn't personae thing wrestled, leaves his it he's a dilatory,
and a man of no focus, Madame unable to focus at anything, obviously bub beside the next five minutes. The aren't even think he's Attila taunt, I mean I mean that you'd you'd have to sort of take temporary occasional interest in something to be built on a method for from Steve, Steve Balance, whence he s actually sort of dual targets: elevated tourism, some kind of you know. I'm thinker and apparently only thing that I thought that was her mom mildly charming in the van and interview was when he said he understood the trump looked around and figured out TAT he needed to serve like have grown ups. Government, because his campaign was like the eyelids misfits toys of resources. Look at me like look with look what I look like, and he looked at me and then he looked at me said. I need growth, so I guess what he meant by that was the secretary of State bake off that we remember that ridiculous to three weeks of which he goes
If he had dinner with Romney in them, he had dinner with this one, neither without one he did it with the other worded Rudy ones. We secretary of State, Romney and then serve till her son, who was basically recommended, had recommended to him by candy rice, somebody who was insulted by banning on the you now during the six immense interview saying I hold these people in contempt. Their Eddie they're, stupid, Condi, rice, color, Colin Powell and many spread, the recent murder of red Scowcroft, but basically, but basically he you know he he said he holds them and content may, because they read a book once and he never asked I was really. I was really startled, I have to say, not to be a snob in a jerk and everything, but I was so startled by the potted, the history of the nineteenth century, the ban and throws out, like literally he read one book too.
Articles and some post on his own website and thought that he understood american history by saying things like America was built by its citizens, will first of all anybody who came to the United States before one thousand eight hundred and eighty two and set foot on. There was no such thing as an illegal alien until eighteen. Eighty two it was the first series immigration law that was passed in order to prevent asian immigration that was coming in to help build the railways. We always that were built by emigrate chinese number and then, of course, you have the discomfitting fact that the south largely built with slave labour. That was not citizenry, so notion of of saying that are divide on immigration today, has anything to do with the name. American history. When the general we know opinion of e of the people of the United States of me, The ideology United Sates was that the continent was empty and needed to be filled, a deal to be filled with people, and we need to expand
the outward on the continent to fill it with people who could you know who could make use of the gifts that God given Americans in giving and bring us to this great good land, you noted makes me think of you know. We said before that there is now a counter culture on the left and the right this. Is the populace rights version of the people's history of the United States has Great Howard, zero, yet Howard Zens Herrera book. That is the story of the two Redeem, herb nightmare that right, you're, dives four hundred years Howard, submission- and you know- power hungry people stepping on poor, dear
people and all that, but that's it that an alternative history is the root of every revolutionary movement. They have to create and erect cinema false notion of their origin story in order to justify their own forward motion, notably, as you noted the yes, I of Hamilton high regard who happens to come from the West Indies, who create an economic system that he thinks is the basis for american ingenuity and that he said that we have a banking system that rewards ex almost exclusively in the nineteenth and early twentieth century manufacturing industrialization, which is also historically and economically illiterate and fascinating, says we were saying or lose cross pressures of which you know. Free trade came from the south, largely the free traders in America, the beauty, lights and century through the civil war were southerners who wanted to export cotton, which of course, was picked by slave and you can say we should have had a policy along those lines that the defensible position
we did it, we didn't. Let me that's all players the deal that these these decisions. The way this works does not does not follow contemporary political models. The cross pressures over things like the National bank and currency and stuff like at all, which are written about extremely brilliantly in commentary contributors, John still, Gordon spoken Empire of wealth, which explains s foot which explains this as well as any other were Baku ever. Could these there were wild leave interest cross pressures that bit bear no relation. Include this whole question of whether or not he is a Jack Sony and trumpet a Sony. I mean trumps a Jack Sony in the way you know, I'm a cartesian I mean it doesn't that neither the term- and I have always thought that about. Thank you. Thank you very much I mean just the terminology doesn't doesn't follow,
contemporary patterns. You now, except for me now, Jackson had a distrust of the central government herb Central authority. Fine, but I mean Trump doesn't have a distrust of centrally allowing the second bank of the United States Charter for lab, set off the most turbulent financial period of the course of the next fifty years in the history of the country, and this is something that ban and seeks to emulate. While at the same time saying we should have a stable banking system that lends exclusively to industrialists and the capital investment. These sorts of things are antithetical Yan, also like what business is it of the federal government's were, where private institutions loan money too, like that's all part of the same gigantic weirdness here, where you have this kind of statism of this kind of trompe in statism
that bears no relation to normal statism, because if, if you actually think that the banking system should be directed to favour, you know American, the hot heavy industry out the best dissembling and I was just assembling- Where was over the Russia thing where he says we don't need any more enemies. Worse. Do ban is trying to make all these enemies, but the one in it He doesn't want to Russia and in order to justify his business, he says that we and the trolls war, and that upgrade investment in the Americas, aging and decrepit nuclear arsenal is a waste of money. We should be investing these things in the inner cities, as do just hired liberal my from thirty forty years and habit habit. My other favour, which was the whole thing, is what why? Why should Donald Trump down truncheon me going around picking fights he set down. Truncheon me going ramping fight was a fighting with german cost, a forum twitter, I mean, should be going he's the be all his does is pick stupid. Pointless
fighting was Jan Mulder Steep abandons idea, which is why, by the way partially, why there was the drumbeat for having him fired with some necessary is that he went to a liberal outlet and did his best to undermine the president's strategy to align with China in order to force North Korea to some sort of a posture where it de escalate the crisis on the korean peninsula. Don T ban, like that. He wants a trade war with China, so we went to a liberal outlet which totally sold them out in setting only while others are winning Without a doubt with the american spectator, not the Americans better. The way right Alyssa was was scare mochi, yet was it was the murder of luck in his name american prospect. It was Well, let's face what's his face. What what's his name
you look it up. Liberal journalists, yes, is: are you after you get him guy? He abandoned this interviews. Railing against Gary Collins has Garrick on public criticized in public and should have resigned if he had any issues with the President see ban. Excuse me, he went out to undermine this presidency because it wasn't doing really what he wanted it to do will hear everything wiser mining. He thought that it was. He was over mining. He leaves you went on to say with IRAN. Trump isn't right, he was saving Trump ISM. So you know this. Of course, now gets to the very important question of what is Trump ISM, and what does this mean for the Republican Party over the next sixteen months before we get to that, Abe as our residents watcher of occasional videos. I want to talk to you about the great courses plus our sponsor cause
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talk about you that no is written about also better serve coming fights having to do with TAT now Jane what what, what and and changing technology have is going to change. I'll, try and involve sort of law and its about her retrofitting. Our laws for that for new technologies have ended in regards to things like privacy and so, for example, a brain imaging technology. You know what happens when brain scans are introduced in court cases, because Neuro scientists have decide that you can tell if a person is inclined towards violence by looking at what what parts were there rain brains, light up. What are the legal ramifications here in terms of upright privacy or you are? This is the perfect. Being violated. It's just a it's. It's a picture: it's not it's not them. Physically
its there's a whole new world that has to be you know at sea. We have to sort of figure out how our our brilliant constitution, which serve it could account for everything lay including Manlike Donald Trump make. Might not have even accounted for these kind of technological leaps and and and what they mean so very interesting, so that those great stuff- and we know you're gonna- enjoy the great courses plus so sign up today, with our special url, get an entire Unlimited access to watch this in any of their lectures for free, so start you, We must now you'll love it sign up at the great courses plus dot com, slash commentary. That's all one word: the great courses plus dotcom, Slash commentary, and we thank the way courses plus four sponsoring the commentary a cast. The other news that has been made by man and or around Bannon or by organizations interpreting Baron is that he
he intends in some fashion, or rather not quite clear what modality he will use for this other than articles on the bright Bart website, but that he intends to create a slate of candidates that will run against Republicans in primaries in twenty eighteens to reorient the part. So that this preposterous notion that the republican leadership which wishes to deal legitimize and destroy trumped trump, gets aped more Trump friendly Congress come twenty nineteen and that the bad day evil republican establishment people are all driven from from office. So there are two things are raised by this. One is there something mildly comic? Let the idea that ban and who has whose last involvement in a primary challenge was with Paul me.
When the man who ran against Paul Ryan in Wisconsin and lost by seventy points, or something like that that Paul kneel, and that this this record provides a you know a sort of up a path, a map to how to do this in twenty eighteen. That's that's the negative slant. The positive slant is that Republicans uncertain about the future elected. Ought it oh, but basically elector Republicans in the House and Senate who are not comfortable with? What's going on? I don't know, what's going on, feel disempowered and impotent to an are not that kindly disposed towards Trump ISM, looking at the potential of a primary challenge being inspected by ban and then his types and use
direct mail to raise money and all that unless forcing them into a ruinous, and the primary challenge in which their characters will be attacked. They would be attacked personally and talk. Radio in their districts will go after them and all of that, will say that the hell with it it's not. It's not funding our someone that anymore anyway, nothing's happening ouida, we can't get anything done were word six seven. So I don't want to spend your fighting my own fight and then, if I win, I have a split party em. There's a Democrat running in my district who could eat my lunch eventually and humiliate me or I could lose to this person. So why am I gonna bother I'll just retire, and so you have them. The notion that balance. Simply by saying that he is Do this may in fact trigger a series of retirement?
We have one major retirement last week that is raising this prospect, Noah tell us here that Charlie dense aid, the one of the co chairs of the quorum quote Tuesday group to the group of moderate in the house. He was joined by congressmen like Billina, Lightning and Riker was also wrought iron Rhine also on preparing so there's some rumours about some people who rumours a lot like Senator Bob, Corker and Fred Opt in Michigan, big name, We don't know what to make of that necessarily, and there are always there is always some attrition every cycle, but these guys all share a commonality which is that their seats aren't safe. These seats or the centrists, leaning towards democratic I, for one, am struggling with him what I'm trying to write about later today, which will be done hopefully by the time he really listen to this year listener. Is that what we're trying
to do over the in the ban and wing is make a charge at the Republican Party and replace these members of Congress warrant sufficiently pro trump towards the man. The personality we ve already went through over the course of this Picasso. You don't really know what Trump isn't is, so it's essentially fealty towards a political disposition. That's much more based around a personality, but there are some ideological, Alan So the people there trying to replace and we used to call the moderates. We still call the moderates but they're not really moderate, not compared with the people there who are trying to replace them, who sort of are more centrist in the classical definition of the sense in so far as they take elements from the right and elements of the law Create some sort of an amalgam area now talking here about the potential primary care it is not about democratic champion wing is much more about the centrist thing, but we have in our political lexicon, sort of a positive connotation associated with centralism
and I dont imagine that anybody on the coasts would look at this new centrist movement and say wow. This is really great third way stuff. We are right down the middle of a line. I think they would see. This is kind of a bastard position of the ideal, noble centralism evolve envisioned in their heads equals David from well I would say, as we that centralism and its classical the classical magical Emmy limits. In its cliched understanding is more of an elite opinion right. The idea is that there are ideas that you can borrow both from the left and the right. If you d idea the knowledge eyes the context in which they come in. You don't say so. You can take a good tax plan from the right and you could take a good inequality plan from the left and as long as you understand that your beyond it, ology. This is all fine and that those that idea based, whereas you're talking, I think, about what joke
and called twenty years ago, the radical middle that is a kind of radical I used american opinion that everything stinks and that everything in the ordinary people, we're getting screwed and things have to change it's more emotional that this policy, driven in its more it's even more cultural, in the sense that it's it's, this. System is being stacked against me. So somehow the system has to be we stacked, way that will make me feel as though I am, moreover, participant in american sigh, but it's not devoid of programmatic concepts are ideas. It takes things from the right, like cultural anxiety and antipathy towards immigration and stuff from the left, like massive spending proposals and economy, of the welfare state, but I'm not sure those or policies you see. That's my that's! That's what I mean by polish translated, but I mean like the centrist efforts in the United States and other reasons they never had purchases. That is that.
There is an attraction to being beyond democratic or republic are beyond conservative or liberal, but its it. It's a it's an attraction for elites. It's not as though people ordinary people don't want to be part of. Of teams that their enthusiastic about they much. It may just feel alienated from them. So you create a new kind of team and that's what trumpets may represent as it's a team, a duty but but it's all centres around a person ray what third party movement didn't in american history, well, we haven't had many third, we Haven'T- had set a few, our member. If this were not there always centred around the day, they wrote a resounding. Are we talking about a third party? Are we talking about the republican Party? That's the issuer, for third parties aren't successful, because this is a the way it american political system is structured, it is binary. Pretty much. So the question is interrupted,
and twenty. Sixteen can you come in from the outside and take over the party and then now the question is: can he read to find the party so that by two thousand and twenty I sing? Well, you know the Republican Party is Ben, you know, but is less spending the Democrats and more budgetary, really responsible and more hawkish and more interested in the assertion of american interests abroad, often in part using military power. Something like that that a non existent twenty twenty winds and twenty twenty and he continues on the path is going. The republican party won't mean that any more right, we're deftly talking about the Republican Party, not a third party, and I think that is going to create a huge problem for what bandit invent, because, if he's coming at Republicans that are now considered moderates, but just just frankly, conservative, if he's gonna wage and I wore on him that is an inter- that is an Inter party war and then kind of ugliness
to which we have already seen is, can be very depressing, republican voters and very well keep people home because it's not a third party. This is it if you're republican Voter- and you see this kind of total fracturing across the board in your party. What are you, what are you doing right now, so, if you remember in the weeks before the twenty six in election. When we would talk about this, we were presuming that tromp was gonna, lose weeds out, came the fights not over like trumps go lose and then the Republicans will be out of power then they'll, be us the war in the party right be a civil war, because the Trump peons aren't gonna go away and they are going to try to stage all these hostile attacks on. Whoever is left standing and that, and so you know way even then like Jennifer we're talking about how their needs in New party, because the problem Party had already been corrupted beyond reason or something like that. But then trump one
The interesting thing is abandoned, essentially is announcing that he wants to come back the same loot war that everybody assumed would happen if the gene he was not not what was supposed to happen if the, if, one and the Republicans retained the house in the Senate like that's not you know Torreon parties, don't stage internal revolts and try to throw members out of office. When there will then their women is not the answer to your question that they weren't victorious if they weren't Victoria, if they were victorious, there would necessarily have to be this international effort. So This is fun because when you were out of office, you get to have ideological purity and you get to sit up from in the libyan viewpoint and criticism. And when you are in power, you have to govern, and that means making concessions in shaping your views and that's what Stephen said
sixty minutes interviews that our mission are goal is explicitly to support Donald Trump whenever he does and when he does it, which is inherently ideological corrupting. You have to change your views and you will have an ideological position that shifts with the wind because you're, supporting a guy empower whose inherently mercurial anyway, but also because things will change down the line, so their mission is only to enforce fealty to a man there is no ideological position that they're trying to support here right, Sir oh, so it's not duplicate, let's not something that you can say. This is a programme that we can stick to because the programme changes every other day. But that's what I mean That's what I'm saying. I think this effort is real, but that its driven I emotion and not by ideas that that one of the reasons Culture. War is still so powerful in a way that you would think that the way everybody talks about Trump youth.
The Trump one, because he appealed to the forgotten white working class on the basis that he was gonna, get them jobs, and maybe it was that it was about transgender ism and gender reserve, in the military and Stuff TAT. What stops me from saying that this is fundamentally flawed and therefore doomed because in journalism trawler is through lined Trump as a man that is reflexive anti establishment, terrorism, there's always to be an establishment that you can be reflexively again, but how? But this is the this- is the conundrum, how can the president of the United States and his party in charge of both? thousands of Congress? Thirty three or thirty, I've governors, mansions and see stay nine out of ninety nine state legislatures be anti established first step is to lose it all. Then you really, your golden But there is also another there's another paradox here, which is how we
Trumpet anti establishment of he's cutting deals, budget deals with with with checks. We're a Nancy policy, because the swamp doesn't like that, whatever from TAT up. That's a good answer. I got it, but I think rust doubted again cited this the other week, but I think he is onto something which is that Republicans are the political establishment but the, but the left is in total dominant charge of the culture, and so you can be anti the cultural establishment and be the political establishment. I guess either by Some of them can act as though there s establishment, even though neither really is words, liberals serve control. Thought: processes of american words or control the means by which idea His arm promulgated in the United States, through the media and Hollywood, nor that an Trump controls, the politics words or public control, the politics, and so there, each a war with the other
ones ones. So Trump is a war with the culture and the culture is at war with politics and everybody gets to be anti established. Everybody gets to be a victim everybody. In this motion. This movement you're describing, is victimized by the other people around them. They lack agency they or their oppressed by these forces beyond their control, and that is the organizing principle is traditionally hasn't. In the very conservative principle inside even really been a liberal one. Well, you know I mentioned at the beginning the podcast that we have a remarkable issue of commentary were closing tomorrow and that will progress get up on the website, Wednesday or Thursday. Something like that one of our major articles in terms of culture or is already up that's Casey Johnson on the campus sex,
I'm tribunals and how the courts have overwhelmingly been ruling against these tribunals when students who have been mistreated and fundamentally you handle them Kafka, ask manner in terms of their trials. Actually take them The court states see them see them overturned the Lee. So there's that, and then we have observed was article on the specific case of Paul, none guesser, the student in Colombia who was accused of rape by a fellow student and was not in fact convicted by the by the Columbia Universe. A tribunal, but none guesser took them to court on the grounds that they did nothing to protect his reputation on campus or to protect them against the depredations of the student and was alkaloids who came after him.
Then just come by and meet him in our project right, that's right, a way to offend Kathy and it's a fantastic piece and then but the lead article by by commentary Sohrab Ahmari. We called the terrible American turned toward illiberalism in this, takes both the cases of the nature of, though sir, support for the illiberal actions, or and liberal liberals support for illiberal actions and wonders at the future of the american experiment when both serve like vanguard in some sense of both movements have now no longer seem to have confidence in american institutions that are taking extra constance. Extra legal and violent measures to try to impose their will on people I so I'm
if you got a commentary magazine magaziner come on Wednesday. We should have that that that up for you to read and and these are very sobering. Examinations of the current american predicament button. But in both these cases I think both in the care, the campus cases, particularly striking one, because that's where You see that there is an anti establishment movement on on the right to say that this over welcoming Lee Dominant Liberal, leftists atmosphere on campus, as now having has been having nightmarish, we world consequences in part because of rules promulgated by the about, largely because rules properly by the Obama administration that directed universities to hammer stew, sewer, merely accused of sex crimes, because because they were supposed to presume essentially guilt,
Then it is, and it is also becoming one of those rare instances where the conservative argument is winning the day sort of at large night. Now, even in media, you know no, as is pointed out. There are now liberal outlet said are acknowledging the that the great injustice, sometimes I have to say that there are people like Emily off. He has a piece in the Atlantic Emily off. He was one of the early people. I mean we. We start writing about two years ago this about this dear colleague letter that came out of the Obama education. Are we a pieces by Jennifer Reuben and by Walter Olsson on that and they caught on the horrors of due process horrors that were being raised by this letter in twenty eleven twenty twelve, but Emily off. He who wrote slave and now, as a person in India in the Atlantic will start writing and twenty fourteen June my friend you sure this is written extensively on this and then I'll just
gets to a simple question of fairness in the sense that you read about cases of like manifest. Individual injustice and the arts meant that well, maybe their individual injustices, but in large measure we need to believe the accusers. Are we in a word there? There is an atmosphere. Eight truth is right. That's right! Karmic truth fake, but true, as you know, is a clarity or true is are truths that aren't necessarily true by reflect some sort of a universal value toward which we should lend deference right and that no one remembers this from the nineteen eightys with, though, with these Salem, which trial like prosecutions, of preschool workers who were being accused of preposterous crimes, like you know, raping children while being dressed as clowns and stuff like that, and that is You raised a single objection to this notion. People screaming
you and said what you now. You must believe the children you we, We have to believe our children. Well, no, I mean, if you have a child, you know you'd have to believe it what's more if you been alive on earth, you know that people extremists under condemn, tons of extreme of emotional extremest caused by uncomfortable are unhappy. She'll experiences often do terrible things to rewrite their own stories about it because they are so upset about it. As this is something that we treat very Cagoux sex Assembly, we treat very cavalierly and there is actually extremely emotionally and extremely mostly demanding and connecting event. So what we know is that that is not as of these principles, which we Are you talking about now is that their universal are not opposed by some really prominent individuals who will say as used
an EU issue, the emotional argument that your siding with rapists and that you're per year double victimizing the victim, because part of the reason why these but the Mdgs, adjudication of these issues have been taken out of the courtroom, is because activists feel as though it's unfair toward the victim to have to testify towards their experience in open court have to confront somebody who was their attacker too, have to be faced with a standard of evidence that is beyond reasonable doubt as opposed to preponderance, which is fifty percent plus one. These things are real legitimate arguments and they carry a lot of weight with the very influential portion of the of society and amid gotta be flippant here, insofar as there is a twitter user who said something that I enjoyed, which was
I had a weird dream: the other day were that all these people who are warning us about fascism for years and had turned on due process of the course of a few of your body in it. That's the joke, but is nevertheless serious. Is that the idea that due process here is an unfair standard by which justice cannot be done? We have to have a different standard for these, for these grants these identity based crimes were. I should also mention that on November seventh Commentary magazine will, converge will have its annual roast Mary and Jolly events, here and in New York City. We have a contest on our website to watch for two free tickets to the roast. If you got or website you can look at the bottom of the page, you can sign up for the contest if you are interested in enquiring about
out attending the roast? You can email, Stephanie Roberts here at S, Robertson, commentary magazine dot. Com for information is off the record. It is Mary, it is fantastic, highlight of the year and and if you can afford, ticket. But when the contest you're welcome to join us and so forth, we Malden Rossman words, keep the camel
Transcript generated on 2019-12-13.