On today's podcast—with Christine in studio!—we take up the question of Joe Biden's odd remarks about segregationist senators and whether the Democratic party is more his or more Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez's. Plus: We're not going to do anything about Iran, are we? Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine. Podcast today is the first June. Twentieth. Twitter Nineteen, I'm John PA, the editor of Commentary magazine the seventy eight year old, monthly of intellectual analysis, political probity and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective. We invite join us, a commentary magazine dot com where we give you a few free, reeds and ask you subscribe. Ninety. Ninety five for a digital such and twenty nine only five for an all access subscription, including our beautiful monthly magazine. In your mailbox eleven times a year are subscriber should be receiving the July August issue
any day now, in their beautiful mailboxes, featuring a lead article from I'm thrilled mounts first time in studio as a commentary: Staffer Senor Writer, Christine rose and high Christine Hygiene, and also, of course, remote senior editor high, Abe, John and nor Roslin Associated or high? Now I jump it so Joe Biden is surf here's. The thing Joe Biden is either in trouble or he's not in trouble. He's either he's he's in trouble because he's saying things that are getting are making other dem giving out other Democrats of lane and which to attack him, he's not because once again to poles came out yesterday, showing him doubling the support of everybody else in the field and beating trumpet Florida by nine and various other thing. So, on paper he's
a strong as he has been period, and the big fight in the ranking seems to be between Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders with war and supposedly rising and Santer supposedly falling. However, the question is Biden coming out and being having to confirm, Having said things about segregationist senators, whom he was obliged to work with, in the nineteen seventies. Indeed, in the early ninety may these democratic southern segregationist, particularly James Iceland and Herman Talmud, but there there were others of without whom he had said relatively kind things like strong Thurman, who was a Republican by the time he talked about him and John Status now has opened up the idea.
That you know he is out of touch worries. You d, don't say anything nice about segregation is, and how dare you? I don't think that's what was going on, but the, but obviously this has now created a vulnerability for him or a lame in which he can be attacked as being old out of touch out of sync at a phase out of time right yeah, if he's out of business, also in some sense cut to his core message, which is let's calm down, let's, let's stop being so overheated, let's actually worked together. Let's get back to a kind of Saint Andrew
Ending of governance, if he's out of touch than his core message, is out of touch and that's a problem. So the this is part of the universal activist backlash against civility, and so this is somehow an obstacle to achieving political progress. If you're gonna go to war against civility in the Senate, where the very violently value commenting collegiality, more than other institutions, you're gonna end up indicting, the entire Senate, including Barack Obama, which is why this is a really kind of a flawed tactic, and you can begin to see that is attacked. I think that the quote about he never called me boy was a real gaff and suggests that that's a real problem for him. He's gonna, be gap, machine and also David Axelrod noted smartly. Should we have to explain this that he said that Herman Talmud Billy was Herman time? Anxious, Eastland, ok said he never call me boy. He called me son and so of course said
being. Why would he call here lies in boy but eat up even there, I'm not sure it's a gas, because it raises the possibility that Iceland called african american men boy, but liver, invite and being so wrapped up in his own head and so solemn cystic? What he meant was. He was twenty nine years old when he got into the Senate. So what it, was you never call me boy called me son. You know like that, like you didn't, he could have called me boy, like the who knows, the hell, he was saying Taiwan is not as part of the problem with being a log. Rick is that people who talk and talk and talk and talk? Who knows what they're saying half the time, probably more damning as an indicator of where this could possibly go, is David out or admitted this with the second time in as many weeks that binds advisers, way, to the press on background and said, I told him not to do this, suggesting that there's dissension in the ranks in Lahti. Unity here, but it needs. We said David that soil is actively campaigning against by Manuel as a pretty good
starvation and I'm not saying it's not true, but he is ok now. Nevertheless, however, ok his second, this that what was supposedly the huge gap where he called out Corey Booker and only quarry Booker for attacking him here and being very indignant about it, was, I think, really savvy because a he changed. The conversation to you had done something possibly little races to you are a racist and re acting indignantly to that and no one in the democratic side is gonna make that charging going to follow up on. I mean they're not to say that by Mr Racist, their end they're going to dilute the nature of the charge, my not treating it with the gravity. It deserves. Second, by calling out only Corey Booker and not Elizabeth Lauren or better Rourke or half a dozen other people who pull a lot better suggest that he knows who is giving oxygen to and why you wanna get oxygen to the guy who's, the pulling it two or three.
And I suppose the person is pulling at seven or eight percent. Ok, so I will receive only alive. I'm gonna buy up the ladder theory and ask you to respond to here's. The theory so by is seventy six years old and he's been in this evening, the Senate, except for being vice president, since one thousand nine hundred and seventy two, I believe, okay, so it was absent these eight years he has been, and he was president of the Senate during those eight years he has been a person in the Senate for going on close to five decades and what he was when he was talking was reflecting the what was considered the praise worthy pose of the United States senator throughout his career, which is The sense worlds grace liberal body, that means you gotta
have relationships with everybody, including people, you despise the Senate because of closer rules that mean that only see that only bills advance that get sixty votes, meaning almost it almost never the case that you don't have to cross the aisle to get support for something. This enforces the need for collegiality. Collegiality is easy. When, Colleagues, you all agree, and it is, it requires skill patients, forbearance and good character to be collegial to people whose views you despise. So what he is attempting to do in his larger picture, running in TWAIN twentieth to say Trump is an anomaly. Everybody in this country wants him once Washington to get back to work I know how to do that, and I can even prove this to you, because I was able to work with
Sk Gusting segregationist back in the seventies and eighties, because that's how you got things done, you want to get things done. I can get things done with Republicans now. Everybody in the Democratic Party, aside from him or a lot of veto activist opinion or leading opinion, is Republicans or insane their disgusting. Every about them is vile. They have evil ideas. You can't work with them and Biden saying you have to work with them. That's what I'm offering that's what I'm offering that's different from everybody else in the
the old is I'm saying I can make Washington work again because I'm willing to suck it up and sit down with these people. I despise and try to make things work. I think that's right. Well, so I think in some ways this this week's episode with Biden and the segregation is talk, takes us to a larger issue of Biden is trying to run against Trump on temperament in some odd way. Re like he sang the temperament of the president, should be a certain thing right, someone who who is tough but savvy, who can work with those across the aisle, etc, etc. All those things you said, and I I think that is extremely appealing to a lot of Americans right now on on both sides of the aisle, but he's there's another battle, that's being wage and that's the battle. That's coming largely from the you know, far left wing of his party, but the
more mainstream among Democrats that we are in an existential moment constitutionally and historically and Trump is something like we ve never seen before. So all the old rules don't apply so that battle, I think, is ongoing. Among the Democrats, I think me so that's the question is: can Biden hold onto this argument about temper and which I think is more broadly appealing and actually historically more accurate, or is he gonna? How is it going to succumb to the temptation to say you're right? The rules don't apply civilities out the window so Fox who the pull this week and they asked do you want somebody who will reform and shake up of Democrats? Do you want someone who were former shake up the system or someone who will be steady and calm? Seventy five poorest
answered, steady and calm and twenty five percent said shake up the system. Now, if that's true, and if that you know, as is often the case, something that sound sent, maybe it sounds good to people as their being asked the Pope the pole question, but if that's true then it is astounding that Biden is the only person in the you gotta be able to live with Republicans and get it make a modus vivendi with Republicans there twenty three people in this race and is the only one making the arguing Maybe the overwhelmingly are because the only one who can dogs the only one who whose own temperament leads him in this direction or his own vanity leads in this direction and Is the but if you can, if, if this is what the mass of the democratic electrode actually wants and its being served
this. They must all be destroyed and am everything that they believe must be thrown on the ash heap of history and and we must call them all racists and Nazis and everything they do is terrible than even the gaffes aren't gonna stop him. I can help you. I can't help but be skeptical of his Paul, because it seems to me to be at odds with everything we see on on the left in the country. I may accept Nancy policies, determination not to impeach right book but which has been but she's, been sort of. You know like she's, like an cornered animal in India, in trying to get that across no, but she says it hopefully, she says the pip, the public does not want impeachment and You know until their mood chain that she also says, like our censure, is a half measure, and if this we have to really get to the bottom of it so, she's tat, there were all right, so she's tap dance
In the end, she has to make it clear that she hates Trump as much as everybody else. What I'm saying that the leadership of the one body in the american politics is controlled by the Democrats is trying very hard to get them not to go crazy and impeach and do it impeach from proceeding that key, not succeed in the president's removal, a lot of this is very joined up in and risky on. The part of the people were doing this because I mean. I am sure there is real, genuine perch front re over buttons remarks in some quarters, but then you have people. I such own Walsh, unseen and the other night whose talked about this is really an assault on Brok Obama's legacy and an offence. Rock along as voters, which imposing now a moral quandary on Joe Biden african american supporters within he did the intention to cleave some of them off, which is without like an old, an old white person like Joan Walsh, is now is now making statements on behalf of the voters.
South Carolina so out what they should and should not feel how come democratic women over the age of sixty are allowed to do that, but republican men over the age of fifty aren't allowed to do. But it's really jamming a crowbar Pandora's box even do that, because now you're beginning to impugn Brok Obama's legacy and his eight years in the office with Joe Biden at his right hand and also Brok Obama's efforts to make the exact same overtures to people like Robert Burns, you will address them in TED Kennedy who had the exact same relationship with with rogueries LE run. Well, in that it's like it's a bit like a reminds me. These. The the reaction to Biden remarks reminds me of the discussion ongoing still in the south about confederate memorials right. You have people who say We know this is this was wrong now, so we have to erase the past as punishment for the prior acts. Then you have people who tabled this happened. Did histories history, you want! You might want to have a different context for understanding them and perhaps not have it in the center of the town green. Where
its seen as a mark of celebration, but you nevertheless have to reckon with how things were at the time. I am obviously more sympathetic to that approach to take that. Take the statue, put it a museum and have someone right up a treatment of how it was put in the center of the town, etc, etc, and in some ways I feel like that really is what, by I was trying to do with those remarks he was saying this was the situation I walked into. This was how it works, and the fact that so many and his party won the other way of doing things away doing business. That says I dont like this. It was racist, very manichaean, ok, so so then there are two things: one is so Biden, flip flopping on policy rights are, the big thing is the height of measurement rabies has said it was for now he's a user use for nose against. It believes that there should be further from your worship had to flip for bonnet.
My view- because this is the literally the consensus view the party. Now we have him congratulating New Hampshire on on ending the death penalty. He, along times for the death penalty, their death penalty, language in the famous vaunted crime bill of ninety nine before dub death, penalties for for drug king pins is was was a key many of the crimes of nineteen, eighty four. So the question is he can flip flop on policy, but he cannot- and this is why he obviously cannot flip flop on his core message, because its that's what he is so big picture. I think he can comfortably say in six or seven case is that he is either seen the library understands that the views of people that Europe views have evolved and other people's views have evolved and he accepts the change.
But he can't say yeah go and get I'll kill. Every republican icy with a machete like That was a new cycle. January around Joe Biden, saying Fred Upton was a nice guy, yeah, because in right now he was compelled to advocate another stage, and I will not allow that I haven't. I had a conversation with a trump voter yes, the day before, who told me that he was mad David, French and didn't like David French, because David French said that he had friends who were liberals, okay, so that this is an attitude that is now pure on both sides and has been pretty much, since some of the electoral I'm George Bush years. I don't know people people would. You know, like turn their backs on me in restaurants, of someone introduced me to them or something like that cause. I was a Bush supporter granted. That's the upper West side, but I don't know whether what
you know this is now extended, rely country. Why? But this the effect is, you cannot be. These people are bad right. The side, it's not their bad ideas. It's not! They have that. You know, or you know, okay, look that bad ideas, but people voted them in and get a millions of people voted them into and we need their votes. So we got to figure out some way. They are bad you, to be frank: segregationist senator you were so posts to be civil to a segregation senator and nineteen seventy two and now oh you're supposed to have treated them like they wouldn't let like they work, Nazis D and at. But can you oh back, combined and say comfortably- and this is a complicated thing- is it goes down your camera. The pass the future king about to come and look. This is this is what a man or can politics was like? I was successful at it and I love
within the system, and we got things done and now the system is broken, because we can't get anything done because everybody has turned everybody else into a monster that you can't know everything
pastern me Mahler every every moment in life is, if I don't treat you like garbage, then the not then the Nazis will take over the young incessantly from Adam Gentle. Send it used to be a hairy reads, chief of staff, who was working himself up into this kind of froth, suggesting that Joe Biden is not just about rhetoric about substance with his Joe Biden worked with. These guys oppose things like bussing, which was an object of disaster and set very explicitly that the segregationist Scott, more from Joe Biden and Joe Biden got from the segregationist suggesting that segregationist one, I suppose, but it's a kind of constructing afterwork yourself having the same thing, the jet down trumpet and on this, not the other way set out that they want to destroy. You I mean it has to be, it has to be an essential threaten. It has to be predicated on a whole lot of assumptions about whether what is actually happening that our don't match reality.
You said earlier? No, what you use the phrase Pandora's box and I think that's true. The left does not want a head down this path, because if it starts looking deeply into the racial attitudes of many of its liberal heroes there, there are a lot of bad story, their dialogue and for everyone to surrender their Fulbright scholar vaguely have now been saved us, like the full aside from a Fulbright scholarships, there's like before the new deal the new deal was past due to segregation, is support for the new deal. It has to be understood that the the existence now gone of liberal republicanism in the United States were arose in the nineteen thirty's in New York and throughout the northeast, because liberal People who should have been liberal Democrats would not vote democratic because the party had align itself with segregationist and that's where Jacob jackets came. That's where the that's where Jacob jackets came from its were Edward broke. The first african american senator,
from Massachusetts, came from its where Margaret Chase Smith, who was the liberal senator from main can't that's where that is where this whole tendency came from, and so our are you dance was to say the new deal was now: I'm not a fan of much of the new deal, but not for this reason. The new deal is illogically morally compromise, because segregations voted for it. I mean that's where you start going here here. I think it is by this problem, which is that lets, say the thoughts poles, accurate and Denmark voters, believe they want a steady hand and ask com demeanor. They do you want some version of maximum was policy right, but I'm saying here's what here's the difference between by and by the way, I'm really not advocating for binding furred go back. Google, my name and buying you'll find three or four pieces about what a fool fraud Logarithmic Lou.
Turkey is not. This is not me I'm scared endorsement for him this week. The idea that you are there, but here here's the thing he is it thing to say that Trump is an exit. Actual threat, and if you remove Trump, your movie existential threat, and the Democrats are moving perilously close to saying that the entire AIR Republican Party. That is thirty percent of the electorate that controls the Senate. That has no. What is it sixty two governor ships, and most of it they lead to the entire republican Party is essentially a bunch of Nazis and Biden thinks you know. I mean like five or ten percent of them to vote for me to win, and I'm not call them all Nazis and they are all walking themselves potentially off a cliff ideologically with this approach I'm saying I don't understand how he is the only
person in this lane and he's the only ones. Purely emotional reasoning like Bernie Sanders, just had a speech the other day. Essentially forty five minutes talking about acting, aren't how Grady is on the same week that half the price might be a subway. In the same week that half the party has determined that the camps on the border constitute concentration camps and doesn't make the can
between their veneration. For this president, on the one hand, who also in turned american citizens in under a hundred a hundred and ten thousand american citizens, now it was- I think, it's now universally believed that this was one of the worst things you know, except for a couple of split shot: Jeff, I'd lunatics. This is one of the worst things at America ever did, and it was done out of panic and terror and also our eyes. It was only overturned last year right. That's right! The decision that decision that permitted right that was found a constitutional, but this is the point which look one jockey thing, so the Joan, while saying all black people should hate Biden for his behaviour right so
There is a fantastic sketch, the weak, but Trump one on personnel with Chris Red and Chris Rock women across Red J Pharaoh, Chris Rock and there in a liberal party, where it's coming clear that you know better trumpets, gonna win and there, like. I can't believe, what's happened to this country and these two black eyes are cracking up. It's like How did this ever happened? How could these people- and they are all day they are? They are beyond amuse because it's like yeah, that's what American to us. That's what America is anyway normally so you go to the southerners than you know an american Southerners in South Carolina there, like. Sure job hangs a cracker over you're all right, but you know we had a pick. One are you you know. I mean
or you know. Well, maybe we can pick em all heron calmly, Harris or you know we're Corey Booker, but you know you, don't we we already that we ve made our peace with that thing you know, and then- and so there is, that aspect of this, which is There is this insistence that you know. People must feel a certain way, like the famous thing, of course, and with Trumpeton. Sixteen was women, like wit, what not? What woman could vote for tromp amended turn that you know, women who voted for Trump. The way women voted with women voted. Pretty much impact hello with the way they voted. Another past past elections. There was a colossal gender gap in twenty eighteen, I mean you know twenty point- diamonds hugs there was, but not in twenty. Sixteen, because there is this demographic, you know there is this kind of demographic guy. What would you call it? Fatalism more. You know you just assume that people are gonna hello determinism, less about determinism right and and and and people vote
a lot of different reasons. Its multi determined you know, and so, if black people want again trump out of there and what they have is twenty three. You know northern liberals running and, like I don't think, there's anybody except for better work, even running from the south, then all right, so we're going to pick the guy who you worker, though Obama we know em. You know we like I'm fine,. And the other all talking about socialism, and we know what the hell that is like that's. So there is a kind of two days ago to layered thing going on here, which is- and you know it's like Christopher Waltz Adam on them on his pockets with data Primo, it's like Twitter, like the distortion, effective social media is the politicians and journalists are all watching
each other in this space that does not, as far as we know, does not reflect larger, democratic or demographic or republic or a political reality. It is a world concentrated world out. This was the point. What makes our aim like filibustering but is like Biden can't say this about Eastland is like Joe whose have this with culture throughout our lives. Right, which is you, love trawl up here? beating trawl up and then there's this vile anti semitic caricature in the middle of a book tat you really like or, of course, the ultimate. Shakespeare and Shylock or you know, whatever the dust I asked like you go and then it's like a baby, that's like well I'm not allowed to love dickens because he created Fagin. You you. You know I am I What is my up and the thing is you say, ok, well
No I mean so this is. This is a thing that happened. If you can take it, you can take it and if you can't, you do if you can't know and can criticise you for saying I can't bear it. I am by the way, is a little bit of a we're point, but but it feels good to get to that point. I think too to say I enjoy this, and I appreciate this this thinker, in spite of his, he might have gives you here, you're in a more complex relations. Reality can cancel. Culture does not allow that Hansel culture does not allow that in any way, shape or form not only you're, not supposed to reach Shakespeare at all in cancel culture, because not only did he right the merchant Aventis, but he wrote the timing of the shrew right so look. Shakespeare was fine for the world before we were all affected, because no one, were felt pain over the depiction of of you know of a gender. Race or try whatever in literature culture before only now is. Is this the case, but
so this. Maybe this is the ultimate question, is: is cancelled culture going to take over the democratic primary process, or is it not now it's not because they can't even bring themselves to to reach the ultimate logical conclusion of what the accusation is that they are making, which is that Joe Biden harbours Rachel's, racially insensitive sentiments, possibly something worse, and they can't say that as if they were to say that it would impede the entire democratic party status quo Ante, which nobody really wants to do, and also the picture of the Senate and just basic political relations, more mistakes cause it's insane is a crazy thing to say something that actually but under the rules of intersection reality. If I understand correctly, only calmly Harris could possibly be nothin. Candidate and maybe not even she, because her mother, is India. So she's not even a pure. Now she she's a woman color so that so few women of color, the native Americans, have their own particular intersections.
Sweden has area right now, she's an Indian in Albania from not using the word India, not it can really that your insensitivity, you're right actually using thinking that I was kind of a country on earth. I am cancelling you and I'm living and so you for a minute by talking to you about, yes, Quip quit the two. Brush. I just use two hours ago quip because it's you know two minutes twice a day, can help pave the way to a healthier mouth in mind. Another. Family can get refreshments quit. The new kids quip has the same too a timer guiding pulses as the original version, with no childish gimmicks, so kids can brush just like a grown up. The new, brush is the same as our original version. Tweet. First, Is there a mouse inspired rush better and more often with oral care that looks and feels like a products. The adults in their lives, use kids are proud to use quip help them develop a grown up routine without childish. Given those sensitive sonic vibrations for an effective.
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as a new brush head every three months. Toothpaste- and you know the tooth faces great. So that's your first refill, prof pack, free at G, T kill you IP dotcom, Slash commentary so speaking of careful culture. There was a right conservative effort to maybe adopt little cancelling altering moment when our favorite person, who got in to office by beating a guy in queens by five thousand votes. Sided to announce on a video that looked like Patty her, was being held by the S highway code Instagram with a view to have it out with it, with the weird blurry thing on the side and now said, veto oh trumpets, build concentration camps on on the border for ok, so everybody those crazy again it never gets.
Right so then we have a day long argument in social media and on television. Everything about whether or not I mean look there concentration camps at work. She shouldn't not nazi death. She didn't say: death camps, you said concentration camps, urban concentration camps since the Boar WAR Block blah blah blah blah she's, tat by lose Cheney and Kevin Mccarthy, Kevin Mccarthy, Chemical is an actor. Is it or is it? Nothing This also the actor the guy in the measure, the valley, Snatchers and Mary Mccarthy's brother. By the way, saying, she's, evil and then she's thy, not evil, doubling down. Ok, so, first of all, she's disgusting was a disgusting thing to say, and- and you know aside from the vile anti americanism of the idea that, with with tens of thousands of people coming across the border in getting arrested, that there has to be a place to put them and we don't have any buildings to put them in so we
so we fence off an area and put them in there, because they can't be it out that the big, of course the policy question here, is what exactly is it that she would do about illegal among immigrants like what? What what would you do you just I'm in maybe the answer is you don't have there's no such thing as illegal immigration, and there are no reporting, is illegal, would probably there exactly right, yeah abolish ice. So it's too, gusting. However,. This really the way we expect our lives. I I can't stand it any. It was a deal. It was particularly because it was the start of the week too was early and away any got here this house is war. This is this. Is this week now, so I have some thoughts on this one in a room down for the for the magazine,
but I want to I mean you're, gonna get argue should read it is she going to some heat is trying to defend herself and she suggested that the definition of a concentration camps should be when groups of people are being held indefinitely without trial, which is not what is happening on the border. This is U being held in lieu of dim due process but prior to due process and there's a huge backlog, and everybody knows any about this with any substance or cares, know anything about this knows that. But what s really interesting about all this? These are not concentration camps. They are the equivalent of holding cells at a police station. That's where you but a criminal before they can be taken to see the night court judgment. Munitions are bad conditions, are bad and are getting worse and their overburdened and backlogged and are dying in these places and that's not a great healthy thing in oh, I, e g, H, H, ass in the age, has said that there is a whole lot of the inspector gaps that that need to be filled. Yes, I mean like in a concentration camp, usually don't have
Why do you oversight? Also people? Don't people don't actively pursue the possibility that they will be placed in a concentration camp? That's the ultimate secret! Here that these are people who are coming into the United States of their own volition, some knowledge that if they are apprehended, they will be apprehended and put some place now, Jus ever wandered around trying to go into book involves oh look! There's the polish border. I've got an process because it so much friendlier over there than here. You know. No, for cleaner ever wanted to go into a british concentrate camp in Nineteen o five by willingly crossing into territory controlled by the British during the boardwalk. So what was really fascinating to me was the reaction from the public, and indeed the group, psychology that compelled people to rally to her side, even though it was utterly indefensible terrain and they knew it
this kind of stages here that I think that I didn't, I think they did and years why? Because these things happen in a predictable fashion. The first is the first stage is when somebody on your team says something really inflammatory that you, that is gonna, get them in a lot of trouble, but you feel the need to reinforce is to be contrary to come out and as an end, then you as a person with a significant audience but be is contrary and adopts indefensible terrain, with the understanding that the commanding heights of culture and media are going to come to your defence, which is exactly what they did. We talk about it in the form of Republicans pounce, but that is essentially the phenomenon in the end, the political culture rallies to the side of the individual by focusing not on the story, but the reaction to the story and then, ultimately, when that exhaust itself, then you have the effort to dig up experts, people with some sort of credential to bury, bury you in appeals to authority and suggest okay. Well, this is actually there is some academic significance behind this sort of thing in your.
You're, a bitter andor, if you're still continuing to contest it. It was that exciting discovery of the woman who wrote the book on concentration camp. She is everywhere she had a peace and the New York Times she was, on CNN animals- and we see in the same back, I remember name Andrea Pit, Andrea pits, concentration cattle exports, yo see you know of our for many gaps back sort of devised, an interesting immune. For herself on this stuff she got something grossly wrong in public factually and then she responded to the criticism of it. By saying I may not get all the facts. Exactly right- and I'm in I may may have some serious to historical details, rollin thing, but I'm the person talking about these issues in bringing them out where they need to be where no one else is talking about them before and if that's what you want to quit. Size me on the details, that's fine, but on the other, those of larger, more important point. I'm gonna be
They are saying these things, whether whether I have I've I've dotted every eye in Ankara and Costa Rica, and this is exactly she. She knew exactly what she was doing right because before she talked about the this sort of left on immigrants, and has been talking about kids in cages. And yet we have. There are these metaphors that are in common use when she changed the rhetoric to talk about concentration camps. She did that because when we talk about virtue, signalling, there's a moral signalling that goes on with the phrases in the words used who is to use when you talk about just like they're talking about segregationist. When they talk about these senators, she knew exactly what she was doing. She used it to signal a great moral wrong and then she went when she was actually called to account for what she had said she did. She did this whole spent about I'm just trying to raise awareness in areas where it is those very conservative
segregation is by the way the Arab they examined. I will get a pen than on their definitely indemnify ourselves, okay, so this then ties into this, but we're talking about in relation to buy, because if she's the future, if she's the person who represents the party that obviously he's not gonna, be the nominee and she's, a person that has shares all of her views may not be the nominee, but by is made is playing a risky card, but it's the only card that he has in my view and he's been playing it as well as he can. Although he really didn't have to use segregationist senators as his example, This is where his idiocy starts to shine through and why he made not maketh tat may not make it to the podium in in twenty twenty but
which is that he is saying I come from a better time in american politics. There has been a d reduction in the time line and timely. Has by four created, like in a time, travel movie and trumpet taking us on and on and on a different, a tangent, and if we follow him if he wins again or implicitly, if somebody who is a democratic version of him whims, again we're going off on this time line of dysfunction and or I can restore the previous timeline, and here is how the previous timeline worked. We and all kinds of problems with each other. But when chips down or something bread happen. Everybody had to swallow their pride and suck it up and get some. Done and the only person who can do that is somebody who were numbers how was before now candidate to have tried
kind of wine most despair. Bob Dull and ninety. Ninety six, who famously gave this convention speech written partially by Mark Halprin, in which he said There was a time when we were better and I remember it and I can take us back- meaning Clinton's a bad guy It is immoral and these bad him. You know, I'm not now I'll bring us factual more moral time now. That was a clever it in retrospect and incredibly dumb thing to do, not just because it me it was about the past the future, but in fact America, fantastic shape in ninety might be six it out. There was a boy economy the top pump the duck humble was going on. We have the peace dividend we weren't war, the Soviet Union was collapsing and added. Back saying I want to go back. The past didn't necessarily sound, so good, I'm not so sure that saying: I want to go back to the past or go but or reestablish,
the normal see that was interrupted, isn't a good message. Now its fall scores. Of course there was no. Coral sea during the Obama years or anything during the Bush years, in which every but where everybody was just awful to each other but and of course, Clinton. And There is no real truth to the idea that it was better before, but legislation did asked the setup before but is in it. It is a good response to the message: that's shaping up to be trumps re election campaign, which is like keep American, keep it great, keep America grape, as I defined America's greatness, should be you know four years ago and that's on playing so well right. I mean we were seeing that that's not catching on he's very so Trump is very backward looking, but only two,
years ago. So in some ways it's nice to hear someone say: let's go ten years, but also seems to be the only democratic candidates whose acknowledging that the economic situation is good, yes and the like, and that its not actually a mirage, and there needs to be some sort of dramatic restructuring of the funding of the productive economy. In order to get more more people into the workforce or whenever create some sort of sense of equality. So yet really only has this tunnel, so I was struck by watching the Trump rally on Tuesday night. I wrote com for the new post on the subject that there were two trumps and is actually neatly divided and half during the speech, which was, as usual, seventy five eighteen minutes, long, which is crazy, but that the first half was him whining by the media whining about Mahler. Talking about how Hilary should have been locked up talking about how Obama didn't do anything about russian interference in and they did
conspiracy against them and everything is terrible. No one's been treated as badly as he has an all of that, and it didn't feel aside from the fact that people listen there's! No, that that's surfing, I'm serve allergic to none. The less I didn't feel like I kind of incendiary connection that he was making to audiences and twenty sixteen, which you just couldn't deny watching those rallies and then the heats pivoted. Then it was I'm running for office again and then first thing he did was he asked the audience to judge, which was the better slogan, should go back to make Amerika great again or you go with? Keep Amerika great, we had them applaud, which one they would lack idle out. Ok, but it was kind of a a fun moment of the oddly eminence, like that's where he like does things that no one's ever done before, and then he going in on a teleprompter
very systematically into his accomplishments and the accomplishment of the administration- and you know, he's got stuff to talk about. I mean not just the economy, judges he deregulation and the individual mandate and health care you don't even if you'd ever like the tariffs, fine, but he talks about you, don't get, I'm telling these are enemies. Would hate Trump, twenty? Twenty? Why he campaign on the individual mandate may remember. That regulates the INDIGO guy anyway design right rates anyway, so of spoke in the he's. I read the herbal said: Trump won the first trump probably loses because- and I think basically like do you want to hear your pay whining about, how we everyone's mean to him, I mean for small if you ve got to be present, he's a present sort of all these. Like you, all he does is talk about how he's a billionaire he grew up rich
he lives rich, does what he wants employees is family, has hotel like stop whining well and that he is breaking the first rule of power right, which is once you achieve power. The problems instantly become your own. Whether or not you created them an American, hate to listen to the whining president's. I inherited the vultures now fix it anyway. So but the problem being like they're so mean to me. Well I mean ok, I there a lot of people in Amerika who think that that the Democrats are incredibly mean to amend. He's got every one of them he's got their vote so again. The whole point of running for real action is to get people who didn't vote for you last time to vote for you this time because he only one by eighty thousand votes in three states that loss by three million nationally and he's gotta do something to rectify to shore up that. Eighty thousand and get and try to get closer. On the three million point. And the only ways gonna do. That is if Trump, too, is the guy burning spirit of the campaign give
another four years, so I can keep doing what I've been. Let me convince you that what I've been doing is good and let me convince you that I can keep doing it and and their crazy You think I'm crazy their crazy, and this is about you. This is about the country they you, the voter, are going to live in between twenty one, two island and air, socialist and their crazy and they hate is real and they don't like jewels, and whatever it is that he wants to say, and those are the two faces that could you know that He needs to show not Lee they're so mean to me only Abraham Lincoln was anybody meters Melbourne people more in actually mean to Abraham Lincoln just at some, but one person shot him. You know cabinet arrivals, I guess so I mean at the risk of channeling Chrysalis from two with the administration. Trump one is drop right. What that's the point that the question is and he came he find em him. Is he
oh competitive and he's incredibly competitive person, obviously, if, if if he can meet, be made to understand that their the way to win and there's a way to lose and to harbour has competitive instincts to win is not to indulge in his hunger to play the victim, but to do something else, maybe he'll do something else, because the the now that the desire to indulge his own emotional weirdness may not if he, if he feels, are as comes to understand that that will actually
damages the waves damaged them throughout his presidency. Well that but the playing the victim for him worked in twenty sixteen, because he was he. There were voters who felt like him that they felt victimized by the system. He tapped into that. That anger and that that sense of victimization and that doesn't work this time around. I think, once you ve, had your once you're you're champion has had for years to fix your victimization. You don't want to hear him Obama to turn down away, though that will give them act, the keys to the car. They drove it into the ditch observer weakness and do that nobody? He should do that yet he to draw a distinction- and of course it also has to try to make, however, is the democratic nominee in Some version of he's not gonna get what he got with Hilary is not going to get somebody who is like under criminal. Investigation during the gear and with two moments which the FBI says: maybe she's,
maybe we're now have for russian socialism could give him something similar. Something galvanizing. That Biden cannot so Biden is a greater danger for that reason, sure, but I mean I bring. Socialism could really help him, but he hasn't it but I'm just saying like making Hilary is that's a perfect her ill just like was a perfect storm for him and marshalled and his own. You know complex feelings about women may have helped them in this regard. Let's say in in being able to focus his ire on her in a way that you know I was just unrelated Flora anyway So today the truth, I think we will see some sort of twenty three hours a day, Trump one
and then we will see the deployment of trunk to undertake. Specific circumstances were where, where he's told to to be trumpeted economic, perfunctory lethargic, just sort of these never look at Argent, but will never know. No. I think he is more lethargic as Trump one in during the rally than he was its trump too. That was the weird part, is that is the term look, don't you say this all the time. It is bizarre talk about number. It is bizarre to talk about how awful everything is for him when he wins, so he beat Hilary. He beat her part of the whole thing about how wired the investigating Hilary Obama do with the FBI and twenty. Sixteen is ok, but you unlike you're talking like you, lost and then the same thing in a knowledge of the smaller found that he did not collude or conspire with Russia right, he
is right to say that he prevailed in if Mahler was looking to looking to nail him on this on the chart that was the thing that was animated, Democrats or two years, which was that he was a rush of agents right. Any talks like he lost, and that is a weirdness and it ended again it appeals to people who are already on his side and you can't the base is not large enough to get him reelected. It's just not. I don't care. I know every listener. Listen to this, who, who is a fan of his loves it when he died? this, but it is there that thirty percent of the national electorate, not forty six percent, and he still has to get all those other people to vote for him. Ok now before we go on to talk about IRAN
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Ass commentary, so rods now done it shot down. U S military aircraft and unmanned drone, but apparently not over that had wandered over iranian airspace, but was in the strait of four moves in international law. This is no joke on air hundred and twenty million dollar. Now Tundra foot wingspan aircraft gap shot down by the Iranians and thus justifying
I was long held contention that IRAN is desperately trying to get us into a shooting war right and Trump responded on Twitter by saying the reins, amid a very big mistake, but aside from the fact that the apparently nobody works at the Pentagon now there are like three people and cleaning lady, some you know, and on the e ring, so it maybe we're not the best shape to launch this attack. There is as yet, you couldn't have a worse, perfect storm, their zero resolve in this administration or the Pentagon, or
eyes to see any sort of costs imposed on IRAN's for these escalating series, provocations which are really getting dangerous written by the way or another. Does that I wanted to cry. I want to correct a mistake I made on either Monday's or last Thursday's Pike S where we talked about this, and I said that a knight who may be seven, the United States had destroyed IRAN's air force, and that was mistaken. What it did in response to the sinking of the tanker was that it destroyed three quarters of IRAN's Navy in an afternoon, or something like that. So I got that detail wrong, but that is now back to us, which is the obvious thing you do with this kind of provocation is too, you know strike back as you been struck at what we said last week. What I said last week as there is a point at which just measured restrained that the administration has in its strategy, which is a bit strategies to destabilize the regime. From with anything you can.
Diplomatic tools and not to get into a shooting were which would increase social cohesion inside the regime and that's what they want and Galileo. But what point does that restraint become negligence, because there's only one country that guarantees freedom of navigation on the seas, commercial shipping lanes are now Jabber jeopardized our surveillance of those shipping lanes, whereas now jeopardized at a certain point, you do have to impose costs whether you want to or not that's just the nature of the superpower. Business was talking with amorous Travis James Tribute is his former NATO ally commander and said in a low point. Do we reached that threshold Nay said when we shut down this, when they should demonstrated foremost, which was the incident that prompted the nineteen eighty seven strikes in six Amory demonstrates. That seems like to me too high a barrier at that point, youth did the damage is done, the damage to commerce, the international economy is done, and you have established a precedent that I'd that I am not sure. If you,
the wound by those strikes, but still you would allow that to happen. I think you probably have to act now in order to prevent that escalation. So from one of the ways the Trump deals with you know, these moments is to ignore them or pretend they're not happening or I'll do a little teeny bit here and there on the margins and just hope that the story falls out of the news I mean this is one of the ways international provocations work for him, and so this the real question here, is Willow RON. Let him do that cuz. My end of this is the first time remember. We talked about this throughout the trump that Obama faced. Unexpected crises every summer of his presidency, for some reason was summer deepwater her eyes in the right
devices, the refugees on the border problem, the kids on the border in twenty fifteen and every summer he had something that overwhelm the administration in which they were. They didn't know what to do about. This is the first one and that's the bed. He complained Democrats for this one right. He can. These now decided that the crisis on the border or something- and I think with some merit- he can say democrats- are refusing to play ball to give me money to to do something about improving the proving that conditions at the border and creating more administrative judges and stuff, like that, But this is foreign policy and there's nothing. He is the commander in chief. So what what should he do? So this is the other question is: is this commensurate with getting into some kind of a church? You know of a serious military incident with with with fear
I agree with no, I mean I think we're not at the point where we have to respond were extraordinarily close. I mean that. But it it it. It will be a and it'll be a sort of, in some sense, perfunctory engagement, right immunities. It's a time. It simply has to be guys what IRAN what's right around once the least amount of pain possible that they can demagogue. Alright, they they make an attack, they call it a resistance, they say we're rich sing the Americans by attacking them and also go right to Europe and say: listen, sanctions, relief now or this whole place goes up in smoke. And do you think the Germans aren't gonna ban, but it mean Ben Ben Ben too. What than to the well, I suppose I mean that's what they're adhering to is secondary sanctions imposed by this administration outside the context of the J C P,
those would be in jeopardy. At you know, it is an interesting moment at which you say to yourself: ok, well, trumps. As I said, Trump wants to hang back and do nothing or doodles possible. You're saying that is not all. That is not an effective strategy or a good strategy. But I think this is a the administration of the strategy and really effective sorry mulvaney moment there. Get out of this room so unprofessional they dont have a mute, but nobody I made this this. The administration strategy has been really good. They ve been putting the screws to the iranian regime in a way that I think, is really hurting and destabilizing the regime and the only way to neutralize the threat by the iranian regime and its nuclear programme is to neutralize iranian regime not by any means necessary, obviously, but by the one that we prefer witches revolution from below, and that's what they're trying to foment in
good strategy, but at a certain point get you have to cut your losses, because we are at risk of losing the control over the high seas and being the guarantor of the of commercial shipping in in the world, and there is a whole lot of secondary consequences that could result from that from our other. Pure competitors in Beijing Moscow elsewhere, I'm not gonna impotent responders. This there's no way that terrain is not going to keep wrapping up the day they transgressions. I mean this. Is you can see the systematic build up to now? You know we ve gone from their minds were where were discovered now there is the bid, the downing of an unmanned craft. What's next buys right? Ok, so we should go to the fact that the Joe Biden issued a statement this morning, and this is an interesting question. So Biden has basically said that this is transport. President trumps, IRAN strategy is a self inflicted disaster by said two of America's vital interest to the Middle EAST.
Are preventing a run from obtaining a nuclear weapon and securing a stable strategy supplies sub, stable energies apply to the strait of Hormuz. Trump is failing on both counts Trump promised that abandoning the nuclear deal imposing sanctions would stop and runs aggression in the reason, but they've only gotten more aggressive trap also promise that walking away with somehow lead to a better deal and said the predictable, as happened at Rhonda's. Building back its nuclear capacity by walking away from diplomacy, Trump has made military conflict more likely. Another war in the Middle EAST is the last thing we need. What we need is president. That will take strategic action to counter the rearranging threat. Restore magazine in the world recognise the value of principle diplomacy and strengthen racial or security by working strategically with our allies. Now here's the thing so Biden, the candy statement is he saying its trump suavity why? This is all really the regional scent of walking away from the new, wonderful Jason peeling nuclear deal that his administration had?
though she hated. However, I dont think even again the persuadable voters, those voters, low information voters, the Millward inside the election. I dont think they want Americans blaming Americans for the fact that IRAN is shooting down American Craig Biden saying that trumps at fault for IRAN shooting down an american military aircraft. That is not smart. I mean. Maybe this or maybe its primary smart, it's not general election, smart or maybe it is. I don't know everyone squinting. Now has more it's for my own conspiracy. Theory on the left is that the trouble administration wants war and when Ramblas up the ship, it's because Trump wants war and when I ran shoot down is because ramp really will read the nets that spin, but I'm saying that way,
The Iraq are illegally barrette rubber. They were, it was easier to say this when they were blowing up ships that were of japanese Singapore and it did not have written a word flying in american flag that there was. This was Eric and plain that was shot down by IRAN. We are not doing anything. You now yeah? We put sanctions on IRAN, there were they were there, but there were their six months ago there there now you know it's like they shot down and unproven and an unprovoked manner we're like surveying the skies to see if they're gonna try to fire on another tanker and they should our plane No, but again I mean maybe I'm wrong. Maybe everything is so divided now that it's ok for buying to say that that its trumps fault, that IRAN is, you know horrible player, a little hurt him he'll her by agenda also doesn't say anything so idea! Now, what we really need to do is go back to the negotiations with IRAN and give them back that Jason P away to reward,
in pursuing them in an american craft, but This is good news for us and for America, because this means, if this goes on, this will be a subject of debate. Next week you could have seen the entire debate not deal with any current foreign policy matter except what we do about North Korea and what about trade like there the theory allow dissension and how me do think Israel is No, they won't ask the question what little I asked it. I doubt whether this amazing times thing where the all the candidates answered eighteen questions, whether foreign policy question was heavily Israel by nobody yet now it there, but there's no dissension on in that twenty feel the about foreign policy issues when it comes to military adventures and in the Middle EAST right nobody's gonna, say well, we need to push for if you don't count,
It also government got no, she would say we should actually surrender. The letters were support. Her, don't fucking could really do with his Russia. Russia could write an AIDS so that the question in the end and twenty twenty guys gonna come down to what what will define the point at which Democrats are two extreme to win and that's. Why that the binding fight is so important because, let's say he blows up, right, the way Rudy Bla Bla, never lets Asia pay it's all hollow and he can't get through the next couple of months of its death of a thousand cuts, as numbers just start to sink, and then he goes to twenty percent biggest of it and then he's dead right, Is no one gonna be the I'm, not crazy person, candidate steeple? Look then it Jane Fund is her. Isn't Jane Fonda hosting razor for bullock when she is well she's well, like children,
Has tax breaks for her she's a modem? Well, tell her. I care TED terms owns half of month. Representative TIM Ryan, I believe, is his name he's a little bit more centrist, ok you're! this is the dismay I gotta go residents. This is not going the way I was hoping. I have to say demeanor wise, I think, but a judge. That's one of the reasons that like, but a judge, and why people liked better work until he revealed that he was a fruitcake. I mean it's very hurry woods. Yes, Yes, but he has America under your work had as easy to find the outer limit of that which should be exposed, because I don't think anyone is ever going to take a camera into a dentists office. Again. May God he's just puts everything has every swing. Every single time you had a bad well said. I think it gives it of every year every ounce of effort he's gonna, like guardian
given the lead in the school play, because everyone feels bad for him: the kitty earns the lead in this go make your references just gonna go over every, but you guys are all too young for this, but he's like Dave King when I know day Dave King when pirates and matter I met Dave king went more striking out. All he did was then home briars, her ears like he had found, five hundred who runs it had five hundred to our bee eyes, like that was that was Dave King when the worst, the worst best player ever he fell or the best worst player ever something. To answer your question. I think if Biden goes down, the progressive less seized their victory as complete and
Dont think someone else's gonna try to get into it, but he had to do it, but let us get so. There's gonna be the sleigh fight between warm and sanders over, because those guide voters aren't gonna, go to warn and Sanders. I dont think. Maybe they say how I mean so ultimately have it they would. They would view that as their victory, but they will also never concede defeat. There will never be it defeat and it's like sort of the anti Trump remnant in the right. It's not necessarily gone is powerless and dormant and certainly not willing to concede to feed right well either it isn't well now its members do not concede anything yeah. Well, I know, but apparently the one pole of the republican primary electorate found that bill weld was getting.
Three percent of the vote nationally of trumpets getting ninety except they sell the. Yet at that there was also the forcing the Hell Harris Paul that showed me. A big generational divide, obviously, but under fifty people want to see a primary challenge. Theoretically, it's like an app, but in theory they want to see the president challenged. They just don't know by whom and certainly not bill weld any then and they have a candidate in the report. Probably really poorly, but the abbot in theory. That's why now you says like I want to see it just because everybody should get a shot, but the Nobody can say in theory should, should there be a brochure why that would be fun. They'll be a you know, will be some debates, that's fun, I don't know
anyway procedure was great to have you in the studio, but you she's going back to Washington after we're done here and then we're gonna have to do this by Skype again, so that these guys, I don't know why we Skype advertise on our show and we'll talk more about how we use you for four arm absence, but president so for the present Christine Present a present. No I'm John passwords keep the camera.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-04.