In the first COMMENTARY podcast of the week, I ask Noah Rothman and Abe Greenwald whether we are seeing a rise in extremist political violence in the United States and what it portends. And then we talk about what it means for the president to have chosen not to take the layup of denouncing Nazis when he had the chance. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
welcome to the Commentary Magazine Parker today is Monday August Fourteenth two thousand team, I'm John onwards, the editor of commentary, the seventy two year old, monthly, political analysis, intellectual property and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective join us a commentary magazine dot com, where we give you a few free reads and then asked you to subscribe. One thousand nine hundred and ninety five get to a digital subscription. Two thousand nine hundred and eighty five gets you an all access
crucial, including our beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times a year. We have just closed our September issue, which is replete with glories among them lead article by Peter Fever and how brands on the tragedy of american Real ISM, remarkable piece by Harvard Men Harvey Mansfield trumps vulgar, manliness, sob amari are newest, staff addition Senor Writer, riding on the death of Europe and a bunch of other stuff which will be online today. So this will be a good day to sign up and join us, member of the commentary community with me. As always, a green walled. Our senior editor high Abe Hygiene and nor Rossman are associated high. Now I John, and we meet on a sad and depressing day, two days after the old right now
the demonstration in Charlottesville, which feature in a lot of violence and essentially reached its horrendous apple g when a car ploughed into a crowd in killing one and injuring nineteen. The alleged driver of that car just went through his bail hearing was denied bail, two fields of Ohio who is reputed to have been a Hitler obsessive from the time he was a high school is twenty years old. Now is a dark. There is no other way to say where, where we are living through a very dark time, and no Rossman. You have written extensively over the last eighteen months about the rise in political violence in the United States, a lot of which has been taking place.
Under the radar, because a considerable amount of it involved left wing activists and far left wing extremists who were pursuing Far right, extremists and the fact that their that thereof targets were properly in righteously unpopular, led many in the mainstream media. To avoid writing about this systematic rise of political violence, can you give us some background Yeah, it's it's morally perilous to erect equivalency is therefore I will not. There is no equivalent from what happened yesterday or on Saturday, which was white, supremacist terrorism,
I'd be scale which political violence has been romanticize. Political violence has been being practised in the streets, There is a serious story that has been really undercover, mostly because, as you say, a lot of it was targeting Trump supporters and white nationalist from supporters. One of the events That is probably a seminal about that. We just don't discussing this country, we didn't have time and we still do not or people don't know about those guys. I guess I don't know what happened was and a meal lay in Sacramento in June of twenty. Sixteen, a wife nationalist protest group got permits, set themselves up on the state, capital steps, and they were demonstrating as white nationalist are allowed to do in this country. They were
with an organization called by any means necessary, which became the nucleus of what we understand now to be anti far, which is a counter protest organization and anti forward. Meaning tat ashes what they call themselves, but they fly hammer and sickle flags their communist. So these people met with thumb. These white NASH the demonstrators and the communists and the fascists had a knife fight in the streets of Sacramento. This was not something that was entirely both sides. Sorted digging deserve blamed for this. The protests counter protesters the organised designed to shut the event down came armed with. Knives and baths. And what have you? The demonstrators, of course, that were already arm themselves because they knew that they were going to be met with violence and they were The violence, according to the California state troopers who were investigating this was not instigated by the demonstrators
and about a year ago, about last month. Actually, a year ago, one of the organizers of this event, a woman named eventful ARCA, was arrested, charged with with inciting by a riot, inciting violence and participating in violence herself There is moral ambiguity here, We, unlike Charlottesville, where we have a very clear. Adversary a familiar one, one that an ambiguous and easy to attack. We have some sort of grey area in Sacramento. Well, some people. Finally, the grey area. In other words, like? I say because the because the hum, the riot were the violence was it was instigated against people. Poor loathed, properly loathe thee. The ability to say what is going on here is not only an american but a danger to poses a danger to our civil society, as we turn up
I and I toward political Violence in our streets, which is not an american tradition, went silent because, because that because the victim was was a desperate wasn't, it was a properly this favoured and loathe target here. The instigator add the instigators and they propagators of the greatest amount of violence were Bosworth despised. So it's, as you say, very easy. Despite properly despise Nazis White supremacy Lists open open carrying of swastika flags and these new fascist flags, and so everybody denounce them and properly and appropriately and we'll talk about who didn't denounce them in a minute. But what we have here is a bomb that has been lit. A long fuse has been lit and that now
thing is happening to doubts that fuse culturally well. If I could submit my proposition, which is by the way before that Sacramento rally there were no fights in the streets between these two groups. After it, there were confrontations between these two groups, we ve been ignoring our Weimar moment for real, on time, and it has a lot to do with the fact that twenty sixteen was a very divisive election and the were elements of that election, notably the president, who gave succour to these organizations to let them think that they were. You no more relevant than they actually were or more morally justified than they were, but it's because there was some moral ambiguity here that I feel like we. Nobody wants to talk about it We as a society have become allergic to complexities, particularly when it comes to allegorical. Moments, surgeon of teaching moments? We need to have a really clearly defined good and bad.
Eyes, there's no more, no more middle ground or we just simply ignore it. Well, although you know, I don't think it's very hard for a great people are most people to view a you know: Gregg Crowd. That is violent and carrying the flag of internet communism, hammer and sickle to understand that their bad guys to which is there a bunch of people in this country who don't think that there really bad guys and they're wrong. You know Hitler and Stalin were the two worst to people, the twentieth century and possibly the hid in the history of mankind end It is proper to draw and an equivalency between the two of them. If you follows, if you follow stalinist imagery, you are no better than somebody who follows nazi imagery in my opinion and the fact
that there is still a body of opinion United States that dead. That seems to feel as though that is not the case. The only reason is not the case historically is that we were ally in world war. Two. Stalin for pragmatic. Political reasons are pragmatic, milk, reasons, and that we were we know we were engaged in the fight to destroy knots. Ism in war, or to than we were engaged in a battle destroyed Stalin. Communism from that time onward for another forty five years, So the moral ambiguity only attaches to those who are who were the gatekeepers of professional morality in the United States was not often tat. One is better than the other. Having said that, the other thing about this is that there has been a Really since two thousand
there has been. There have been these moments of flare. Ups of this kind of political violence illustrates the streets almost always centred on leftist anger at globalism right J J, twenty meetings which dissolve into violent confrontations with police freezing the acceptance of the notion that it's ok to attack police, the United States, because of allegedly racist acts being conducted by individual policemen and individual cities we're in a period in which we are ex, we are more accepting of violence. There is an expression of political and moral will. Then we he has ever been the case in the United States. I think it's weird, of course, because we also are living through a time of historic of a historic low in
She'll violence, criminal violence, murder, crime, and yet it's not really. Replace these are still anomalous moments. Charlottesville than anomalous moment. It's not happening every day, don't die Don't forget also the Bernie supporter who shot up the congressional software practice right. So we have these moments that are frightening right and they all at every every one of them, represents a kind of breach in a wall, so shooting congressmen Arab at base, while for software practice that's one breach and having a nazi rally in which some, He drives a car into a crowd of peaceful protesters. The way the people drove the way it somebody drove a truck into you know: people on the streets of niece, that's another breach in along
and it's the bureau to serve the thin wall of civility. That has in other political civilly. We have always in the United States been usual in that, with the exception of large exception of the civil war Politics is allowed us to defer political combat physical combat as an expression of politics, we isolated and allow it to take place in our legislators, and tween nerved executives and legislative officials and judicial officials and all that and the aid. That might be crumbling, is a very is an extraordinarily frightening one year, and I think I love it has to do with There is this sense now on both sides. There's a panic in politics, on the left and on the right. It's doomsday for everyone, every it's it's it's it's the eleventh hour, something's gonna be done with it
its flight. Ninety AIDS, that it was the flight. Ninety three election, the planes going down if we pull out of Paris The world will boil and so on, and oh and by the way, so that that that very the anti far group was Its name is by all means necessary or by any means it s there, which itself speaks to a kind of desperation is for panic, desperation. Whatever it takes sort of inversely proportional to the actual scope of the rats involved. Yes, that's right! Well, that's exactly appoints a time when violence is decreasing, leave the vial. From our political language has growing the polarization polarization which is itself the notion that it's on a notion, but I mean, as the result of the of the idea that there is literally nothing that somebody on a different side from you can say that can penetrate the notion that everything that they believe is wrong.
All of this is the result of Vienna may in a weird way, be the result of the fact that we have been living through a period of unprecedented and unprecedented recent violence, because when violence is a serious threat, it is cartoonish and offensive to pretend that you now to pretend that what you are going through is warranted oh and credit, because you know you actually, people are actually walking in the streets fearful for their lives. So if you create the can which people are. Ghosts are walking in the streets fearful for their lives because they don't know if they're going to turn a corner and there's going to be like a you know, somebody sucker punching them because they have a button on the political button on that they don't like, or they have a bumper sticker on their car and someone's going to smash into their Clarkson. Like the bumper sticker, we we are moving in this is not this is. This is a change for the United States and its of joy
Does there's a change? The answer to the notion that these was one, If the American Nazi Party right, the American Nazi Party, which was a political party in the United States, wanted to stage a rally, the jewish suburb of Skokie outside Chicago in nice, in seven nine, both in order to be rocketed and to issue a nickel statement. This is a This was a rally that became a flypaper moment for NEO our seas and white supremacist across the country over the movement of a statue of a confederate statue in shock let's well from one place to another. To you now for political reasons, and you know it's not These people are from Charlottesville and they came onto the streets and Charlottesville because they didn't want. The statue day came from a high, they came from Arizona, they came from over the place and they care about the confederate statue Charlottesville. What they wanted to do was make a state
that they are there and what did they say? What did they say when they rallying they said Jus will not replace us, Jews will not replace us like Jews are replacing white people in the United States. Jews make up. Two percent of the population in the United States is where you know we're not replacing anybody yourselves cleaners, that's right. That's right were two percent. Now we were four percent we're four percent seventy six years ago- and God knows what will be the forty years from now. So you know good point. Their aim, so extraordinary discarding moment and then, of course that moment the disarming nature the moment was exacerbated beyond all you know, comfort by the astounding response by the President of the United States
so Abe, so the president gets up at up at a price at an event meant to talk about a veterans signing of a bill to help veterans. And he says that he condemns violence on many sides and does not specifically name the villains here and the idea being that, because the parties were met by counter protesters and it got violent that everybody is at fault. So why is this disheartening low, several reasons, but going from least most severe. For starters, it is a mirror image of.
All those times with that we waited for western leaders, including President Obama, to denounce let's say radical islamic terrorism in and instead we get, you knows, bland descriptions of some broad phenomenon called extremism, so it's always disheartening when, when people won't tell her to tell the truth about something, horrific right but it is especially horrifying, because this is a clear cut case where these white Nationalists came down there in right gear spoiling for a fight and they got it and they committed over an overt act of terrorism and on top of it, all
as as, as anyone can see now in in the response of of these white nationalists in and NEO Nazis, online. To trumps. Words are saying this is great. God bless him, he's he's standing with us, for no other reason Trump now should have to run. Some very specifically, unfortunately, just be just as a response to their or bragging about having his support. But he's done this before we ve been here before I did. The vow okay, now who was pushed really hard right? Let's start with what were you referring to EL chasm that goes back to February of twenty? Sixteen, as though we have, we have zero reason to be surprised by anything. That's happened so far in Spain or if twenty sixteen he was pressed on his support from white Super
MRS Elements NEO Nazi elements, David, Duke and alike, who he David, Duke by the way who he conveniently forgot, who he was, even though he had denounced him rather forcefully in two thousand, when he ran for the presidency. Under the reform party nomination me was pressed, it announced some and he pretended as though his earpiece wasn't working and became a fear and within their, I think, was twenty four forty eight hours, something like that. He did eventually denounce them, but it was sort of a exasperated frustration and I am quoting I disavow- ok, that's not the first he's done this and it be the last time and guess what it doesnt matter? Whether it comes out now and says you know I I dont like white supremacist and not a white supremacist, a hate, white supremacist, they ve heard him loud and clear, and they will assume that this has everything to do with the fact that he has pressure on. I right the editor of the daily storm or Andrew angling this morning, ooze
issued, a statement or gave a tweet which he said. It was really great with the president, and we heard him he didn't denounce us when he and they are by daily storm or is a Nazi publicly. There also look as they also want him to have supported them and they won't he and they will. They won't hear. It, though pretend at least that they don't hear anything else besides what they have heard, because that gives them the legitimacy that they create. But Korea carriage want to register a slight disapprove: on one level it doesn't matter anymore. I agree the damage is done and we know that he will. Even the words now make up some new denunciation, it would it would it wouldn't have the same effect. There was away when its blown. On the other hand, I think it still might matter because every moment that goes by now that that he doesn't speak out against them direct
they are emboldened and they are, they are walking around saying. This guy's is with us that the president is on our side, but who is ill? This refusal to name them as the victim and to issue a statement afterward when it became clear that what he had said was insufficient is the ultimate in dog, whistling I just don't know how you can look at it. Otherwise it's a very what was at the very weirdly pointed refusal. He was asked the question at the end of the press event repeatedly by reporters were calling out to him. Who said what is it you have say about the Nazi menace here and he wouldn't say anything and so you have administration. Officials like the like the vice president quite cry. Only saying that he said what he did not say, which is that he condemn white supremacist, the Nazis and the real.
This is a problem, among other things, aside from the repulsive fact that the present United States can't opened his mouth to say that he oppose his nazis. The reason is that the problem is that the dog whistling has, it has, in fact is what a means by embolden it like. There are very many of them there may come. You know like serious people who were dead. It gives us cause willing to come out in the streets and Lake Havana made a couple hundred in the country of three hundred and thirty million. But if you triple or quadruple or quit couple their number from a couple hundred to a couple thousand. Let's say who knows what can happen one car drivers into a crabbed Charlottesville five car five people can drive into growled and then they can come up with. Evasive maneuvers tried get away from it and and make plans
some plans and things like that, whereas the president's as where you come out you with few know the full force of the federal government, you better watch out what what you're gonna do, because if they think that can scare North Korea by by Lionel Serve saying, you know we're going to come at you with full fire and fury. You can tell nobody can say that about. It is about people who were like causing Roy. It's in the streets of of oh, it's well Shorty could and he didn't, and they heard loud and clear, and so did we all and I dont know, what what it is that we are supposed to take away from this. What we're staying away from this is that the president of the United States believes that it is not in his best political interest to unequivocally denounce white supremacy, and he believes that this by my hands doesn't believe Ed and Jeff sessions doesn't believe Ed and horrified
publicans on it. You know to a man: everybody was talking with the exception of the psychotic candidate for Senate in Virginia Corey Stewart We defend the right of Rio, defending confederates well, whatever you call it, everybody else's denouncing it, and he isn't and its now two days and he's tweeting about anything else. They can possibly tweet about he's cancelled his press conference today, It doesn't want to be asked about it and he you know, but we know he doesn't apologize- you never apologize. Cub Roy Cone told him not to apologise, and you never amend, and you never do this and that's how you be a man and all that. But that's not that's like this. This is about something else. This is this is what a lot of us feared way. In his rise when, in the course of twenty of them, with the fall and winter of twenty fifteen people like me, people were much worse position than them than I was.
No spend our nights getting hundreds of anti semitic tweets hurled at us by Trump supporters who, who you now called Us- cut and put our names and within three were parentheses and said we were just supporting, is real and that we know our day was passed and stay, was coming and every one of them said my guy in their twitter oh file, and you know, and and at some point you know, not people are not to blame for the behaviour of their supporters, except when their support but there's do things in some sense in their name and then We are called upon to say whether or not it is appropriate that this is done or not done in that absolutely done in their name and again I go back to the campaign because we had a whole bunch of examples that this was obvious in this was going to happen and everybody who pretended it wasn't was closing their eyes to the reality there was, but week before the election,
in early November, a self describe white nationalist by the name of William Johnson working on behalf of what he presumed to be the interests of the Trump campaign took it upon it. Self to pay for and mount a call a robo spot, Robo call add attacking Evan Macmillan from the point of view that he was some sort of a traitor because his mothers of divorces, Father American, when it was it caused, a bit of a stir in Sean Spacer was asked about it, and his response was very illustrative of the thinking inside Trump world about white Nationalists quote: we live in a country of three hundred plus million people, not everybody who supports Donald Trump, not everybody who sports Hillary Clinton are exactly the kind of people you want, as supporters. In other words, once in a while, there's gonna be some white racist and we're not going to be able to disavow them or get rid of them, because their the base right is what all of us here
Is that one cannot? They don't believe that they can distance themselves from these people because they are politically useful I'm ok, I'm sort of allegiance there, there's like a fealty bright well, even as the whites I'm assists never got off the Trump bandwagon when everybody else did could be there. It could be. Also, it's like you know when the stuff going on with the horrible all twitter, Anti Semitism and pro Trump, anti western weird, citations about likening trump to these mid a poster into war. Nationalist figures in central and Eastern Europe. All of that that was though it was ass, though the Trump campaign, unlike any political campaign before it, the possible
Jesse, Jackson's political campaign and nineteen. Eighty four that I can remember. Turned over a rock raw was turned over and we got to see what was in this kind of weird underbelly under the american Rock of roiling hatreds and extremism and violence, us that did not have a place in american political life, despite the efforts of liberals to claim that this was that this was actually at the heart of american conservatism, republicanism that it was all about. You know, race, hatred and, and you know, and efforts to preserve white privilege, and all of that that was all nonsense and lies. But when, when you get to appoint win It appears that politicians political base is made up in part, even even if it's a very small part of people who who are committed and consumed, these ideas
decided to enter ordinary political life. In order to and the interests of a specific political candidate when their general view was that everybody is the same and they're all run by the Jews and they're all evil and they're. All that no one's different, the Democrats and Republicans when I say this is our guy wire whispers listen to them and hear them when Ronald Reagan was endorsed by the clan Hebrew. P P rejected them when Bob Dull was sort of like Bob Doll in his conventions reach an item, six expire. So we said if you have, if you, if you our view of the American you know of american race, Shoes is one that day is should be. Company, I want. I don't want you to vote for me. Don't vote for me basically saying
The Buchanan voters. I don't want you to vote for me if you, if you have been stirred to political action because of race hatred and bigotry, look Impotent embolden is a sort of abstract concepts. It's rare to see it actually mechanically at work, but we have, when that rock was overturned, and we saw all the human garbage beneath it. We have assumed that there, mostly sort of you know, people living in their parents basements and they were completely actual nay what they think they couldn't muster any of Energy or or a coordination to get out there in the world, and I didn't do anything and if it we were right. But what? If that's? the case whatever fire has been lit under them beat beat because it's it's there's. There's it's been sanctioned by virtue of our mission, will know us so that raises the that raises the counter question
which is that there may be this emboldened of such people and, as I say, may be they their numbers triple or quadruple or quintuple You could also see a kind of effect where they are named and shamed. The people who were in the movement of his foes were taken in trouble, our named and shamed. Amid there they are daring to verify that actual I now and their identities are made world like, and people say that I want to work with the many more and all that and- and they are, you know, served written so people who might work go into the streets are who have something to lose warrant. Just you know On s aside, this ability play video games and their parents basins how they would have something to lose made may may be frightened away, but that does not speak and that's what I want. No, you taught by now that does not to the question of whether there is a counter, emboldened meant of the anti farming movement. As result of what's going on here. In other words, they are now heroic, Anti Nazi punch Nazi guys and
We had a barrack kind of like the idea punching a Nazi rang. That was what what all of us were. Those of us who spoke up about the events in Sacramento and elsewhere over the course of twenty sixteen were afraid. Precisely that that there was some sort of bizarre romanticism nation fetish. Rising of the of the violence that was being conducted. In the name of anti racism, and we were put in sort of a weird position where we had to do at least defend people who are getting punch in the face. Even though there were a poor people like Richard Spencer Riches Spencer was such use of white nationalist supremacists to organise these events speaks at them. Rallies people up whips him into a frenzy, he's responsible for a lot of this violence and he was on the streets of Washington and got sucker punished in the face, and it was a moment of weird celebration for the left is, though, that kind of political violence is good and wholesome. Indecent leads to productive political,
comes from. Those of us who were repulsed by political violence were forced to defend richer Spencer uncomfortably and where we actually added a lot of political arguments with people who were, whose were very happy that a Nazi was punched as but to your point, the s there is going to be in a bold and in its it's weird, because this moment is, is great for the all right who needed it there. Their policy outcomes have not been pursued by this White House. They ve been before it gets to the day before yesterday they were absolutely impotent and bereft about it and of thugs shamed of this administrative look and as a ban on their look feeling as though they were becoming more important, because the defenestration advancing scare mochi and the arrival of John Kelly is cheaper. F and suddenly all dissuade spate of stories about how Eve Bannon, who was their hero, whether he would only cause
he said what did you say about bright, bards de bound? He said it was the book he wanted to be. The bulletin board of all right, ready literally said that and then any who says the ban and therefore has to apply, has two: it has to I acknowledge that he is a figure of the all right. We are then attacked for saying so because what what did he do deserve that? He never said anything at all that he only high molly, not listen. No, it's I'm an empire, but ok, but it is not just that it was. He was. The trump was compelled to denounce the all right by name in December. They got that might Flynn who was? It was relegated veteran rang right now right now there is this idea, there's a fight between a charming mass of the National Security visor. Instead balance the ban is losing. Now we keep, we ve heard. Three or four times in the course of this ridiculously short, seven and a half months of this administration, which you know in which there is more been more ridiculous palace entry that I'm game of thrones. But I said I was going to die,
my game of thrones I will note, however, as an aside just as an aside, but he's out right with animals was away. Trump refuses to criticise Vladimir Putin, it it also emboldens you're right, because the all right is steeped in russian propaganda will point that we don't really understand. And their support for Bashar Al Assad which, by the way when the Trump administration Mehmet strikes on him when they were apoplectic over that is russian propaganda, the idea that Russia's this defender of white Christianity is completely bizarre and has no relation to actual rules. Events in Russia, which is a more the ethnic state with the largest muslim population in Europe and has outlawed evangelism, but they believe all these things, and so in Donald Trump, refuses to criticise Vladimir Putin that keeps them alive, Israel that keeps the flame alive. But anti far is, is- has been lionize. Emboldened romanticized and made to be some sort of a thing that it
be near the arrest of a vessel, ARCA was not publicized at all, absolutely should have been and they will draw recruits write, em, here's the thing like where eat out these analogues, who reigned these peace, publishing these pieces and commentary about We are, we are. We close tonight in six were nowhere near nineteen thousand six hundred and eighty nine, since there were three assassinations and there were riots and ten cities and cities burned, and you know no more in Chicago. You know it was the the worst year in american policy, history, since the sense of war were nowhere near that, but you know one of the things can happen as this romance zation of leftist violence was a feature of liberalism that corrupted liberalism in the late nineteenth sixties and arguably drove it into the wilderness, where it has no political wilderness, for a very long time. Like embolden new deal, liberalism loss,
It's way because it started making common cause with the black Panthers, and we even with the FDA the students were democratic society and, with more violent, and the Vietnam WAR, supportive you now instructions for the Pentagon and all that and then and then you have this phenomenon now, where you could have the trump is so dangerous towards society, that efforts to destroy his the base or whatever? Are they acceptable, morally justified? And we could? sliding there. You know you'll know that, when publications that are much more in the center, you know like out of the Atlantic, or something like it starts hinting that may be done so terrible that you know people punch a nazi you whether walk. Down the street, then Nazis all know they're not was to do that, then you
shouted nazi and then you know just search at a Nazi, but you it Ok, to get be violent against somebody who votes republican if, after all, Republicans support Trump, so zoo support Trump, you are trump, you are the old ray, you are nazis, and so you should it's. Ok, if you are one a street to get hit by a car. But I think, things them where the differences between today, and that is not happening to save. Not none of that is happening in in respectable opinion. The question is whether the over heated atmosphere that wearin will justify will lead to a justification of pilot the violence now on your side or what you deem to be on your side. I know it's not on yours, but that's. The Emmy knew what I was when she was one of the differences, between today and one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight Izzat one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight
we are dealing with the romance cessation and and sanctioning of violence on the left today in this this. This is what makes this moment potentially more explosive. Potentially we're not there is there there is an emotionalism to the politics of the right. Now today, you have an on both rights. Yet that's right, the violence of the left was not met with my was met by you know, sad kid and sad kids. In the National Guard in Ohio, getting terrified by demonstration, Ohio State in Vienna, starting to shoot their guns off killing for people they were, they were also there. Also nineteen, just like the people who were pro. Who were demonstrating and can stage so that there is. There is now there's not a right and left counter culture and and and But let's I am, I think, that's a very good way to put it that we have this kind of Lee and eat. Of them exists as a young. A criticism, a critique of the
p c of the other right. So so they to these and a lot of this stuff emerges out of some emerges out of gamer gave, which is an impossible thing to explain, but this, but this a war over political criticism of a video gaming ended and its massage any, which then led a bunch of peace in the world of gaming, not everybody, but a bunch of people that they all we know bring them yelled and said that this was incredibly unjust and then some people then took it and formulated and tire ideological political view that suggested that it was okay to start go going at the jugular of people for the evil of Danao their video games. It stems from that counter: Cultural coolly. It's like you, you're, taking everything away from me. I can't even guy came in play. A goddamn gale had something Eric Ericsson is written about about the demonization of the of the past times of young men
right so there's that and then you have anti far, which is America itself, is an evil and then and of therefore resisting it by all means necessary, is fine and trump, trump himself traffic's in this we're making. You make Amerika great again the predicated that is that America's no longer great it's a dump. You know big bad deals and everything is terrible and every good person than the country is worse off and we fight stupid wars and where this or that, where the other America stinks and I'm gonna, make it there again and the Anti far think America's thinks and working Resolute we're gonna get out we're gonna overthrow it. So you know the way, with Your thing by trumpets, if he is a counter key, is the first true counter cultural figure to become president to become president. No counter. No figure of the counter culture has ever become, and he has effect,
Leah Counterculture President. He is a revolutionary. You know his let his language is revolutionary. His law, jack is that the system as it stands needs to be overcome. Rhone somewhat right. Whatever Nixon sort of ran as account or not in any way shape or form. Nixon was an adult Nixon was a foreign policy, Expert Nixon was marked. His is sixty. Eight campaign was explicitly about pushing back on a culture. Unless we get it right now, he was not in fact his major of counter cultural message, which was the silent majority speech, was in sixty nine on until after he was President T v. Much ram as a centrist, but when this get out as a conservative and end- and he of course you know he is the person who was should we, who is blowing racial dog whistles and was even blowing dog whistles, was George Wallace, I'm right in thinking that the southern strategy is really deeply misunderstood. I mean about the violence and in urban centres.
But that was read that wasn't counterculture at all. The counterculture was the violence. He was calling for restoration of order, and then I just don't, That's a good, but you know what this is a very important point: you're making cause we're talking about the lessons of history, lessons of history and do they are the analogies to his past events for a proper probe, proper and appropriate for our time and how else can we know that without knowing history and get delving deep into it, and we have so, we have to know how we got here and one a bite of doing that. No one doing that is by watching ray courses plus we I did so satisfying to learn from these trusted engaging experts. It's like getting to sit in on those fascinating university courses for our own enjoyment, all in our own schedules and there's unlimited access to thousands of fascinating video lectures, topics like politics, economics and when you get into less you know if you need little relaxation, photography or cooking so the
each course I want to talk about here is called turning point in modern history, which the year nineteen sixty eight was certainly one unique pursued. One world history from the discoveries, inventions and ideas that shape the world and a green. While do you have been watching some of this course? after imports in modern history. Can you tell us about I'm gonna, be so small? You guys are going to do it. It's tearoom done now with the great courses. Yet very interesting topic history, professor at the University of Tennessee Knoxville, named lewd, loved, Excuse me little averages. I hope I got that correct and yet he looks at history not from the supposedly great and theory worry doesn't look and movements, but events, Seminal events in these aren't justa political events, there also sort of technological breakthroughs and things of that nature,
on which the fulcrum of of of world history turned. He begins the first lecture, as you have seen so far very interesting way. He be talks about a sort of a a pair diplomatic event that didn't happen, but could have as way of sort of looking at how things change on an add on a sort of you know, I'm one data point and he's talking specifically about in the fifteenth century Ming dynasty, China they had this sir there is. There is in in character, and in an of himself and admiral who was a muslim, Chinese, Eunuch Chang, her is, I believe, the best way presently, and he,
and he launch these enormous exploration ventures all around the Indian Ocean and every word which huge you'd ships and there is no reason to think that he that they would Eventually around very soon, rather than they were doing this reached North America. And go to the other direction or org or gone gone around, India and and on the other way and hid from these cuts, but or or hidden from the West Coast, and how how different history would have been had had. The Chinese had hit the west gossamer, firstly, because a bunch of confusion, scholars, dead, determined that The separation was a huge waste of resources and what not, but very, very easily could fab fascinating so that things you can learn. If you sign up with great courses bus which you can stream from your smile, on tablet. Laptop too
your download videos to watch online great for travelling. So we want you to check out the gray courses plus today their offering our listeners a full month of free video lectures when you sign up using our special Europe. That's the great courses plus dot com, slash commentary, All one word, the great courses, plus dotcom slack commentary start your free month now at the great courses plus duck slash commentary, though, The courses plus I've come slashed commentary. We thank the great horses plus four sponsoring the commentary podcast kite. With the point had been sitting on gathers agenda. Small point to add to the UN and its small pointed says: there are those who love that will we hope? Yes, it's actually, echoing above twenty minutes where rich and not that many people are so maybe not eleven out with it. But it fits in nicely with the idea that Europe is the first country, cultural president. It also covers the way he governs and the way he acts
as I tweeted I think on. They are Friday. After after trumped, given response to prudence kicking out american diplomats. Trump said, dialogue, fine, lovable, it'll, save us money. I want I want, you know we need, we need to cut the payroll and ice an I tweeted he's not on Presidential Many is that, but that doesn't covered he's, he's anti presidential he's actively anti presidential everything he does and that's the sort of maddening frustration when, when you, when you watch stuff, and that goes to the counter cultural thing. Well, you know it's an interesting point is of course here we are, and we haven't word about Putin. We haven't said a word about North Korea. You know we ve been. Obviously, as we have a domestic crisis. And the horrifying nature of their comments about how well you wanted to thank Putin and then he said. Of course he was being sarcastic and the other thing about him and the tone is
like when he reads speeches in his reading them they're here speeches their speeches there, the official statements of President Trump and these reading them and then, as he's really make comments on them as though he did- knots was to be emanating from him. You know he said said, says, and we will do this year. We will take this measure and is like, and we really will folks like. He has to go in and emphasise the point, because the everybody knows you just reading a script, he doesn't carry, doesn't mean anything so he's the needs to accentuate of like the others, if I've been saying, is all nonsense. But this point just want you to know. I mean yeah it's as though he standing outside the presidency looking in and everything he does a staying inside the presidency looking in and
That's why bricks to loosen the standing outside the state Department looking in hand and at the notion that the notion that John Kelly, this in our doubtful, american military hero, could go in there and you know, make them Trains run on time, which I believe he can to some extent will will never be able to overcome the idea. The trump does not himself feel as though he is the Is it over the United States? He is, The most famous man in the world- he is the most important person in america- that's what he ran for, but the specifics of being the present United States, which include accepting the owner of being a moral leader to some extent so that when there is an event like oh, it's will you say we will not countenance knots in the United States. That is as many
people said this weekend, the biggest gimme in the world like who, how is it hard to denounce Nazis now dead easy denouncing nazis what's hard, as you now made, taking a complicate, complex political position on TAT, Madame controversial matters nor do I think they did so because he has some political sense that it would be bad for him. But it's also that he rejects the notion that he has a moral world He rejects the notion of saying Vladimir Putin does not have the right to kick out seven hundred fifty five people, when we were responding to his provocation, it's our electoral system or the real and that we are going to strike North Korea with fire and fury is that its possession of nuclear weapons is not equivalent to other peoples of possession of nuclear weapons. They are,
Ass, a crazy rogue regime and their there. Their possession of it forever will lead to massive nuclear proliferation. What that will ultimately lead to attend the millions of deaths in this century that could have been prevented. Otherwise- and he cannot say any of these things because he rejects that role, because he is accountable her figure in his idea. Is it's all ball? It's all nonsense. Talks and everything ever done before me is crap and I'm not gonna. Do any crap like they do crap. You know- and so this is this is this is where we are and a column of the new posts, aim, which I say that this is why I didn't support him. This is why I could see anything nice about them, and this is why I am disgusted by these people like him. Black and others who were insisting that you know people on the right who still reject Trump as as well as a political leader,
must fall in line because we are at war, and this, as you know, if he if you know everything will be bad if he doesn't get his way and if he is and if he is not allowed to do what he wants to do, Everything is bad and an anti it it also tarnish, is good conservative causes and and things that that are happening. Otherwise, we would that we would do might be while the argument that made you know that the arguments made in that respect, is that he's I did he's doing all these good conservative things and that its vanity that leads people who opposed him in the election to not to fall in line with him, because he appointed Gorse etches doing deregulatory things. It is doing he's doing that, and you know, is out of control and he never anything with Russia that doesn't matter, and this is all just a political war that is trying to discredit the right while the problem with that is that that may
be true, but if you associate knots ism with deregulation, what you're gonna get is no deregulation forever, because it will be nazi deregulation. So if you think that it's ok tempted to soft pedal knots ism to pursue to bring court nominee well, the next Supreme Court nominee may not make it through, because the present United States couldn't leave em blue, bring it to his heart to denounce knots as a corollary to your point, which has the emotional, eight asean of pollen in general, but now on the right, which is something that was native to the left earlier, but now is prevalent. Right is that that Conrad, black, approaches anti little intellectual and ask you to stop thinking, and no fall in line and trump is an anti intellectual figure aggressively hostile tour, anything that resembles deep thought in its most elemental form.
Oh yeah, we sort. I haven't a broadly anti intellectual moment that is also fuelling a racist backlash and of the eventful archives of the world. There are there not the deepest thinkers anybody in the streets conducting violence is generally the pretty bright person. So if you wish to reject the anti intellectual ism at the present moment, you will indeed subscribed to commentary magazine. If you want to see what Syria This thought on the right is, if you, if you come to us in you, subscribe to us in you, read through the contents of our September issue, where you will learn a great deal about the cross pressures of american foreign policy over the last seven years, that have led to a moment at which America could really do with some. Foreign policy. Realism except the foreign policy. Realism has been horribly contaminated by anti realists, posing as realists fast
laying peace? If you want to understand why Trump cannot say what he needs to say about China, well, you can read Harvey Mansfield on trumps, vulgar manly us, which I think explains quite a lot of it very brilliantly. If you want no some interesting historical facts that you did not know about. Robert Philpott has a piece about the secret, jewish history of Margaret Thatcher's rise to power in in Britain and the revolution in a policy of consciousness that she helped effect with. The aid of two to do a jewish thinker, some politicians One of the surf high born moderate, who became radicalized the right by the events in the nineteen seventies and Sir he's Joseph and then serve thumb
young and communist turned anticommunist intellectual named Sherman, who, who became the kind of vat. Norman POD, hordes of his it's in the in England, a great peace and there's a beautiful all sad, sobering memoir by the by the literary critic. A novelist Bruce Bower about his sir about his mother called the girl who loved Hollywood and a wonderful piece by Terry teach out on the on the moral greatness, not just the our aesthetic or were organizational greatness of Arturo Tuscany, the greatest conductor who ever lived in why? He also deserves great praise as a human being and Roberts on the failings and
and virtues of the Movie Dunkirk, really the M Foremost World war. Two historian, we have now writing on Dunkirk in commentary and an astounding peace by men salivate check, Rabbi in New York in our column, jewish commentary about the role of laughter in jewish life and particularly as we approach the days of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and how do we tell the story of of Isaac? Abraham's son, whose name literally means laughter and why that is so central to understanding jewish history. So please join us. Try magazine dot com for a Greenwald and Noah Rothman on John Podhoretz, keep the candle burning.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-13.