On the second COMMENTARY podcast of the week, I ask Noah Rothman and Abe Greenwald whether things are changing on the Right in regards to gun-control measures after Las Vegas—and whether "mass shootings" constitutes an event category that makes sense. And we ask whether Rex Tillerson calling the president a "moron" constitutes a Jack Woltz event. Who is Jack Woltz, you ask? Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine podcast today is Thursday October. Fifth, twenty seventeen- I am John POD words, the editor of Commentary magazine the almost seventy three year old, monthly of intellectual property, political analysis and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective join us a commentary magazine dot com, where we give you a few free reads Subscribe, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five get to a digital subscription. Two thousand nine hundred and ninety five gets you an all access subscription, including a beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox
ten times a year with me as always senior editor, a green wild, hello Abe. Good morning, John and. I see that there are no Rossman high Noah John so we are several days out from the horrific mass slaughter and mass occur in LAS Vegas. The president went to LAS Vegas for four hours yesterday and dumb seem to have been relatively uncontroversial. There did seem to have not say anything to untoward herb, embarrassing and jump shots with paper, towel ya, no, no juncture, so that so that that has to be a judge. Uh. You know a relative success, given the low expectations that I think, even here, The deepest admirers now have of what might happen largest of provoking a fight and the mystery is just deepening about
the killer, the shooter paddock and his son, his girlfriend merrily whew dally. Who returned from Australia after her trip to the philippines- and seems are claims total ignorance of his plans and whereabouts, and all that I am the basis of this myself personally because given the size of the arsenal he had in this house that he had in which there is apparently no first sure, sounds like they led a kind of some weird gothic existence that I'm so the fact She says that he was nice to her and she had no idea certainly comes up with
as a single source with that now no actual evidence, but will probably know more about that soon enough? What we clearly are not necessarily ever gonna know and which is the maddening quality of this is whenever really gonna know why he did at or, and does it matter why he did it. I think the jam
Public policy view of liberals and people on the left is that it doesn't matter why he did at that. He did it because he had access to weaponry. He had the he had opportunity, he had equipment and his motive is meaningless, and so what we need to do is deny him the equipment or to my people like him, the equipment to function with you say: no, if you think that's right with a look of sky, think that's fair. I don't think it's close of two were liberals either in the wake of events like this, like knew tat, there is an impulse to do something, and that has that's it. That's a universal impulse, it's not partisan and all, and what we ve seen so far is that there is a general consensus among reports on the left and the right who aren't completely illogical when it comes to
ownership rights that the device that was used to make this semi automatic rifle function like an automatic rifle called a bump stock, is something that we should look at either regulating out of existence by the eighty f or legislating out of existence, and that's not just a republican version. That history is any guide that will last soon return to our towards foreigners, but for now there seems to be something of a consensus about those, but it's a tricky proposition where it well it interesting, because once again it is a key part. That's when things are going to start fallen apart. So no none of us around this table or are have much expertise in these matters, but based on what one is reading the ACT of converting a semi automatic weapon into an automatic weapons is itself
banned in law. It is it is. It is an illegal acts to do anything to convert a semi automatic women into an automatic weapon in there or if there is a device or a piece of plastic or a dongle like this bump stock. Whose sole purpose of existence, is precisely to do every legal thing. I don't know actually how you been it. It's like it. If the purpose of a bong or a or a hash pipe is to smoke. Ribs smoke hash. You can't really ban a hash pipe from existence, so you can use make it very difficult to sell it. I suppose in the United States we don't we dont ban products. Without you know we don't, as a matter of course say a product cannot be used
our detector is exist solely to evade, as of cop with you now to try to prevent yourself from getting a speeding ticket when you speed and its use, its being its being ah can be banned and states, but its sale in the fact that you can own it can't. So we should explain real quickly with and yet this sort. This is a weirder case on top of all that, because the bumps that doesn't technically- or at least this is the issue of the intellectual justification for not regulating it went Wendy upturn came up and in twenty ten I think the bumps up doesn't technically alter the weapon to turn it into an automatic weapon. It it it's it's a sort of molded piece of plastic that you is the that the physics of the of the gun itself to to make it continue, shewed right
The real semi automatic green lies in your finger, and then you will have to move your finger. You can keep your finger down and is the recoil availing needed too needs to be rifle possessed about up your shoulder when about selfish, older bounces back into your finger, and then you fire off a hundred rounds and seven seconds like an automatic weapon that you haven't done anything to this gun. It would almost be lying gun. You don't be like if, when you go to a gas station to Philip your tankard, sometimes there's a sort of peace wood or something that they have to do to keep these, you don't have to leave. You gonna stay right here right here. I it's it's. It's it's a little object, so here's where this gets tricky. Now that was because, like you said, you combine this piece of plastic, but you can principes a plastic. You could make something else. Do this: it's not the plastic! That's the problem! it's the physics of the weapon, and once you say with the hash pipe, you can use an apple shore you can use apple, is a hash pipe. So you can see bearing ahead shop where you could buy a drug
Familiar for illegal use doesn't mean that you can't use other devotional, you couldn't see. You cannot outline idea and the idea is to use the physics of the weapon which is inherent in to change it into an automatic weapons. Now, if that becomes the issue, we have a very big pr problem for semi automatic rifle swear, but who cares about the pr problem for semi automatic rifles? There goes. The question is whether the debate over this will. I think this is its pr problem. It's a kind of them public. Formation problem, which is to say the more you talk about this, the more you laid out, the more you right, legislation that is designed to zero on this very specific thing to make it impossible to use you effectively publicize it's how to make it manufacturing nuclear. There's a run on them already
with IRAN on them, I'm sure, but I'm not. But what I mean is that you know the best way to learn how to use a bum stock will be to download the text of age. Hr, twenty eleven you know, and and and you could basically will there will be- instructions and there in in with written The federal register on how to make a bump stock at home on your own because they will have to define what it is very precisely in to pass any kind of constitutional muster casino, you can't this is America, you can't you, don't you can't just say you shouldn't have, that, so we you can't make it. You could make anything here. Sceptre machine except a machine gun. You know But it is interesting. I think, philosophically, that what we have here for the first time in decades is a growing consensus on the right that there is a
piece of gun, related paraphernalia that should be either regulated are banned, and I I mean. Sense. Is that I'm controllers don't understand how made shift. This is if it holds a hang now. You think it's probably not gonna hold over time, if it holds over time exactly what the array fears, which is the camels nose and the tent, because once you say, okay, well, the bump stock, his bad than you say. Well, what do you need a silence or for suppressor whatever you call it, which is what was gonna happen this week was a debate over suppressor on the house for what do you need this? For what do you need a longer? What do you mean might grow some kind of view? No scope scope, it. I would. Focusing on long distance. Shooting for and
So the areas position has been for decades that you agree the nothing because, once you agreed on one thing, everything becomes thinkable. I think the answer I was actually entertaining some modifications to, for example, background check law in the wake of knew tat. They were open right to some very modest legislative reforms, but I didn't last and why didn't last? Because everybody over reaches we're not about achieving consensus. Irish with a very soon this becomes in an exercise in posturing and tribal authentic were right, after Newtown, I I was at a lunch in New York was Senator Joe Manchin, the Democrat from West Virginia, who is, he now represents the get out. The trumpiest state in the country of this was two thousand and twelve, or something like that and mansion got involved negotiating the possibility of some kind of a new piece of gun legislation as a demo crowd and it was his purpose. His role was to be the gulf between
Talk to the NRA is a as a lifetime NRA member himself with a gun user and somebody who, famously you, use the gun in a campaign ad to shoot through the text of the of the CAP and Trade ACT and say: okay, what what is? What is a baseline that that we can ache or how can we change the baseline so that new, some new efforts can be made that will be acceptable both to as he is called a gun people where non gun people and there was no such consensus because while the other right while some changes in backroom czech law, something like that, might be possible or might be mood, something that begun people would agree to. As he said at the time the interesting. The Anna re was worried in Washington terms about two groups that had form that were to the right of the energy. I grew pausing
called the gun owners of America or seminal that they were worried that if they were outflanked, if they agreed to something that would be outflanked on the right by another group, that would steal its thunder taken its membership, you know, all of that now you can hate a real you like or love the embryo you like, but it is both a united gigantic lobbying cons. Business and it had at its trying to do something, and it doesn't in its power to be deluded, so they that concern and so making any kind of agreement was very delicate and tricky for them and then, of course, on the other side, nothing was gonna, be good enough for the others. I accept outright banning of real now hand, gun sales or something like that. But you know Republicans have an opportunity to be very clever here because they can say, look brow Obama's administration for all their talk about, has something has to be done. They didn't they. They let this bump stock thing go through. We won't. We we now see the danger in
That's way too clever. No, but I think I said that Kelly, I'm Conway. She brought it up yet this morning mention that right always mention the wrong spokesperson. Forever anyway, yet none the less said well, why? You blaming us? Obama didn't regulate ground stocks when he had the chance right, but if it, but if they were, they follow that up, bye, bye surely you know forward with with his message: Trump can say on the most, the safest president. Ever you know, and nanny backtrack, Son gone gun control and instead Van and has said, this has led. This is really it. This is where the coalition falls, apart, which you know I don't know whether or not I believe that they got over Dhaka they get over this by. I I will the more that I've thought about this, the more you look at this them in a sort of a long term perspective the advance of of gun control as a fee as a as a rallying cry for liberals and Democrats over
the last twenty five years has been, may be the single most damaging thing to democratic prospects in over the last quarter century, and you can see it time and time and time again, people the current restoration, Clun Clinton himself believed that efforts that they made to push on control and ninety three and ninety fork were mighty. Contributors to the to the Republic of Takeover of the House and Senate in in in November, night him before you see every time. One of these you could see these numbers that are just astonishing about the growth in gun sales flat for long time and then, as as liberals start to move on guns. American start I'm guns in colossal numbers and more and more Americans decide they want to own guns in order to get men before their banned or something like that.
Imagine a world in which democratic had not moved on guns. Imagine a world which Democrats had not chosen to make gun control a central preoccupation of their domestic policy. Would american political history be different? I think it's possible that american political history would be different. Maybe but an Democrats would say committed, gun controllers would say who cares has nothing to do with political prospects? This is about a moral imperative and the health and well being of Americans generally. Who cares whether or not our political prospects are? by this, or not it's a moral necessity right well great, so they can say that they have got nowhere with it. I understand that I mean the other way That's where I get out of here. Let me give you another rang in these positions are so intractable because there are no rational, ok Well then, I'll, give you a counter example the
much of the advance of the new right, the Reagan coalition. All of that came as a result of Roby weighed and the birth of the anti abortion movement in the wake of Roby Way. Right. So for twenty years the anti antiabortion movement was absolutist about abortion, absolutist no bullshit ever abortion is murder boy off all any policy that needed to be advanced had to be total listing. And then ninety maybe two came and the Supreme Court did not Return Robbie weight and the Casey case, and ah the problem. If movement began to shift its approach to incremental measures.
Oh fetal, heartbeat thick twenty weeks, Guenaud parental notification, things that were limitations on abortion that were not outright bands of abortion. Now you see hints of this image in the way that got the gun. Control lobby moves on some of this, like things like trying to ban suppressed, let's say the silencers or wherever you want to call them, which is a version of this, but in fact You can see that in the end, what they're looking for is nothing less than the removal of the right of Americans to own and in our own and have guns in their homes. So there you can say that the abortion movement found the anti antiabortion moment found a away who have an effect on making it more difficult for people to have abortions that has had as had an effect in that direction.
According to long large scale statute. Can the gun control movement. Follow along in their wake if they are willing to accept a victory for victory like conservative saying that they were there, they will support the bump, the other was they will oppose bump stocks. I don't know- and maybe the analogies is isn't isn't precise but in jail. Well in the United States, sweet in, for the fences legislatively is a failure, and in this case I think You know one of the main reasons that the Democratic Party has been hollowed out in rural areas in the United States is its total listing opposition to pre gun ownership? feel like lawmakers. Democratic lawmakers would accept some sort of incremental compromise they they loved. I think the activists class would with wood scream and say,
This is big with continue to want to rub rub rub the noses of a few know the NRA and into whatever latest tragedy and say this isn't enough, you're, horrible and and then whatever I depends. I think you know your Shannon Watts in your every time, USA. Like that they were, there would be accepting of incremental ism, knowing that the ultimate objective is what the ultimate objective always was. Why wonder I wonder, then, if you know, if internal terms, the The challenge here would be to find a way to talk about this. That does not sound to people who are not crazy and want to own guns, as though you are not coming for their pieces of private property that there's no ears. It is always some people who are apple well written, and I reiterate what I'm saying as as up as a jet. That is why the Democrats wisely thought that maybe mansion could take the lead in twenty twelve after new town and he try and he failed, because nobody could move and may be known,
move now either. I don't really know, but there was. I think there has been that move on the Democrats part for for a long time. I feel a guy, heard Barack Obama repeatedly saying no one's coming for your guns were now we're talking about common sense, measures of, but that we can all agree on to just make things a little safer All of us- I don't understand, is what what the thought processes here what's the objective, because you had Nancy Policy on television last night for a full hour talking. To a town hall format on CNN as to what her objections were food to current and laws and what she wants. You talked about background checks and was ass. Specifically with this have stopped LAS Vegas, Maskers Sid, guess now wouldn't have it wouldn't have done it The guy passes background checks, Missouri no criminal run only was not in the mental health system. You know that Why and bigger narrow booting right and they're just been many too many, but as we are talking about before this, there was a twenty fifteen piece in the Washington Post faction,
something the marker Rubia said who noted that the proposals, our new gun legislation would have stopped any of the mass shootings that have been popular dart dominant in in the headlines in that's true, a hundred percent. So it's like what are we doing we're just acting for the sake of action and if that's the case, the Republicans are obliged to stand a thwart these efforts because they are by definition by the admission of their advocates completely unknown I mean. Then there is the other point. A babe alluded to the last show, which is that we we are talking about rat we are. Actually, though, what what we see is the act of an individual person orb to people at eight in the case of the Columbine killers combining two or where the sector do you know shooters combining to you now commit a mass atrocity of some sort right, but.
The idea that these are similar events, except for the outcomes, is mistaken right, so here's paddock a guy sixty four year old guy with no record doing you know committing this spectacular. We evil acts. You know out of up out of a movie. With the from a window with a machine gun that shooting out the window, and then they all that stuff right and then, you have Adam lands are. Who was a sketch a frantic twenty rolled, shooting up? First, the classroom, and then you have Omar Martine. Who was a jihadist. Who shut up a game. I club these are not the same events in order reminds me of its is weird wage was bear with me. It's like the discussion of inequality in America. We talk about it as if it is one Inga that America has this system that generates inequality. That makes rich people richer and poorer people poor, but in Reality. There's a bunch of things happening at the top of the economic downturn.
What's been happening, the bottleneck, NAM, Platter and, and they the top things happen. If the top is heard of her helping some some some rich people to things happen, the bottom are hurting some poor people. It's not that it's not his defining any in unequal system, The same is true of of these of these crazy. Violent crimes, it's not it's! I didn't not being spun out of one one. One thing: nobody else have a different signature in Ireland: roof was races to wet, I'm shot up a church right. James homes was a psycho Ass. We shall have a movie theater Adam lands, a sharp of for a first great clad. You know a hallway of of an elementary school. Tell me after jarred laughter was obsessed with the site, psycho cycle, pathology of grammar and killed. Six people were shot six people in a parking lot narrow zone, including congresswoman. These are not these, though. The. You have is a bunch of people here, probably injured or more
third in an individual spot in in a single spree disk. I been Liese as the same crime in a list does violence to the to the Un standing what it is that's going on. I went out, it strengthens the well, would what they common right guns right, it strengthens our guns or where they haven't right more lives on the occasion of the time. So I didn't really what was privy to the arguments. Was there a passionate gun control push in the wake? of the Alexandria shooting, because I remember was hate them and then wasn't guns. It was hate there wasn't, because that right and then some people have tried to make hand now on the right. You know like yeah- that this was foundling valid case to me right. Well, let's the point, but I would say I still say that what's what's what suggestive here, will let me put it this way so lemon? Let me switch little bed
as often happens, Rostov that of the New York Times compelled me yesterday to look at something in a different way from the way I was looking at it. So he basically has a column of moral outrage about the nature of how we are accepting of this. In the United States, it was called God bless. America is very like savage and sober about Guenaud, essentially the moral degradation of a country in which these things are allowed to happen, and he said one interesting thing, as he said, I think we ve all been inclined to make fun of or to have scorn for Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen call Bare, and all of this kind of the
peachy up the preaching of the late my comedians about events like this right, but he said, while politicians were saying we have thoughts and prayers and we all know anything. We're know. What's going on the only people in the United States on on Monday night or whenever it was to go out and ran. About the horrors of living through these kinds of then some. Why doesn't somebody deuce like a kind of moral screech of outrage? were these late night comedians, nobody else was doing it. Everybody else was well. You don't really know. I mean municipal, forget twitter because we're all in twitter and everyone gets Randy on Twitter. What is all this? We don't know. We don't know what's going on all this and that that, in fact, you know. Maybe we are getting, maybe even the very the way that we're talking about this is as a suggestion that we're getting in
there were no way Ross into the night. Was that its ennobling to be hysterical and not know the facts, and it is not the hysterical the fact, though, he said the facts, the safety issue. The issue is that fifty nine people were dead and five hundred people were injured and the only people who said open your eyes. Look: what's going the only people who went publicly and said you have the press I didn't say anything. Politicians were offering thoughts and prayers and these people went out and they said how can we live like this, how can I? How can a country be like this I'm saying that I looked at it in a slightly different way, because, while I still have contempt and scope for late night comedians turning into clergyman, it is we're that there is so much serve terror about you, don't like it pressing horror in shock likely again. Maybe this is the nature of him the president that we have to get out, Obviously is not somebody who is in a position to provide moral preachment.
Or emotional comfort. That's not his! That's not who he is, it's quite the opposite. It one thing to advocate and another thing to just vent in Jim to self satisfied myself soon minute haven't. I think this it that's the conscience of Jimmy Kimmel, but the conscious of nation. He was satisfying an interest in his own personal proclivities and when I just venting on national television, even though its virtuous about bad right, you could say also submit to argue against my own argument that you know if you spend three days. Europe venting about the dogma of the horrors of the idea of reforming healthcare. And then you spend the next three days venting about a crime in our holding a lion yeah just just venting so that If you agree with them, you agree with them, but then be honest about your inclination which, as I agree it's, not that this is than the most noble expression of of the American Eat, those
I've seen and, alas, that wasn't too that I agree with it that wasn't what Ross was saying. I would you say it was interesting. It was an interesting approach that you know. I do think that there is a kind of you know, a platitude, this specious nets that sets in with everybody. So when there is a crime that is committed, that is to your put that that serve acts in your political interest. This is right, you get all crazy and then, if the crime INA may speak against your any your natural ideological tenants, Inga whoa, whoa whoa, don't don't jump to conclusions this really at a bureau serve thinking about this in relation to all. But this is the this, but no one knows point made me think by the centres. The Alexandria shooting because depend sitting on the shooting. The aftermath gets. Eight in one of any number of ways it could be about hate. It could be about homophobia, it could be about guns, it could be about war,
what what? What? What we're doing to our two hour veterans, who we send into useless wars if it becomes it, and it's very specific like to the sort of a number of factors have to sort of play out. Or we see we sort of see what would narrow, these are our settled and who does the shaping it's? Not it's. The arbiters of cultural terrorist on late night comedy relevant achievers ratings have a line into the Senate Majority leader that racism, it's about it to pass me along event, so we ve had events where an actual falls horrifying. We false narrative was conjured up out of thin air, and that is why I think of when I think of Omar. T write a shooting, a pulse where it was said that he was, he had been a frequent her of gay bars This was a self. This was a homophobic scream of self hatred. Then we find out that he calls the police Department in Orlando three times during the course of his spree to say I am a jihadist, allowed, locked
I'm doing this in the name of Allah and I'm a member of ISIS which somehow gets better. The people's keep saying it turns out. He was not a frequenter ABC didn't go to this body, never but those bar before and yet I think, if you stop, five people on the street, Midtown Manhattan. If they could remember the event- and you said, why did I murmured teen shoot a pulse, they would be just as likely, if not more so to say well was an act of homophobia. It was it you know he'd, he himself was gay, suddenly came out with his whole story that right- and that was a false narrative. If that was a false narrative that was ripped onto items and is at the time the story of them was Emily. It was like the movie which movie there is a movie. That was that, was about an american beauty. Closeted homophobic actually merit reviewed. He takes care of at all because he was also military man militaries it has chosen not to realize it was a self hating gay,
retired general who recollected nazi memorabilia, Esta yeah yeah ordinary subtle. It is the ultimate political you ever of shooting rarity S. Rights are unemployed that we apply to these rights actually movies, but remember our mom is telling rubber member. Oh Mamma teen happened in the middle of trumps. You know. Surging campaign, the idea was to the desperate idea that there should be a counter narrative created, so the trump could not take advantage the shooting to advances interest in you know in fighting the same thing occurred when there were a couple of on the one off the Manhattan that autumn a year ago, the trial, which is only just starting this week, interest in them the Chelsea, the Chelsea bomber. It's amazing how you just forget everything you know. So Chelsea bomber happened in this trial. Is this week in your struggling to remember he put up the put abominable Amsterdam pressure cooker pressure over it
stir and then a bag somewhere couple blocks away he was shot in a street in Patterson, New Jersey and he shot a couple of cops before he himself was calm down and like this is all a guy who remembers what yeah I mean it's, it's amazing. It's amazing is horrifying. And there is some kind of we are getting inured to a kind of freakish violence. But I think this is- and I am now going to be guilty of our basic I'll, be accused of or possibly justifiably, Q of contributing to this sub moral acceptance or immoral acceptance, but. You look at these events when you think about the nature of the country and the size of the country. There are two hundred and fifty million people in the United States. Three hundred now over the age of eighteen, oh ok, they're threatened to fifty million people over the age of eighteen, the United States
So, every year you know there are four or five of these horrifying events. So do the math. I mean five out of two hundred and fifty million. How? How can we look at this and say that this is indicative anything. The only reason we think it's indicative of something is because other countries don't have these crimes, but These crimes are also self perpetuating rhythm and in all there followed by copycats skates. Relics get the idea to do this from the behaviour of other schizophrenia, x and media cover. We all know that the media coverage is dangerous because it causes copycats, I'm. On the other hand, what you expect people to not cover it like that's, irrational and crazy, and I just think in the end, we have a problem because we assume that this has ignored. This meaning when in fact it may have the opposite of meaning it may. These are acts,
of Neil ISM that our intent did to drive to make the person who did them famous are empty. And drive everybody crazy. I may succeed in doing both switch gears just for a second end and to try to cheer you up with formation that will make your day when I talk about a new commentary magazine, podcast, advertiser upside. So let's talk about upside. If you travel business. You know it's a game of winds and losses, popping open and overhead been in finding an empty. That's a wind sleeping through wake up, call a loss eyeing or business trip it upside down, calm. Well, that's just a win. Its a triple whim. Number one upside has the absolute best available prices for flights, hotels and rental? Car number two will reward you with a gift card to places like Amazon Dotcom. Every time you by business trip number three,
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for a minimum one hundred dollar gift card to Amazon when you by your next business trip it upside down, come upside dot com? You deserve a better business trip, minimum purchase required, see site for complete details, and we thank upside down com for sponsoring the commentary podcast now Moving on to the bizarre events of the last of what we call more on gate, more engaged, or you know, did Secretary of State Rex tellers and at a meeting right after Trump spoke before his beloved boyscout January in July, or after excuse me, I refer to the President as a moron or an and effing moron, as Stephanie Rule of MSNBC, told us effing, moron and causing reported by NBC, confirmed by sea, and am he said, moron he said it meanings. Lotta people heard moron
The actually gave a press conference yesterday, which he speech in which he said I ve never met the president he's smart em for his America first policy. I am here as long as I want em and then someone said: did you say more on these that I'm not going to get into that? apparently said: moron held a press conference. It was really I want to address some things that have been reported in the press. I never wanted to resign Never want to resign. Thank you. To resign. My leg is America. First policy he's smart, not like people say freedom, fraid of curly. Oh said these marge, and you know, he's determined and I'm here to serve the american people and serve my country immovable blah blah blah halting was about. You did you or did you not call the present a moron? Ok, so here's my thinking about this
where's. This happened after the whole thing where he were Trump tweeted that It was useless for his wonderful secretary of state to be negotiating with with North Korea, so Trump Because I'm a three day rant wine complain about the pipsqueak mayor of someone not being nice about him right. Nice about Germany's beans, fake news and she stinks, and what about her t, shirts and whatever his Secretary of State, apparently called him a moron or aim effing moron he's gonna sit there and and let them, let this guy continue Servant office when it is reported that he called the president called him a moron. So air. Someone can't say anything negative about him, but his own secretary of state in column, a moron and have it publicly reported where
how does this fit in with trumps character, I dont understand how he can to how we can let this go on label but in other words, I think that he said you gotta get out there and this, but he didn't deny, I know, but don't, but don't think you said at least Well, he's a boy scout he's alive: this guy I gave no cannot totally carrying. He can make a really good nod and he's not gonna help. You grab a woman crowd, Lady cross the street and he's not gonna. Why? On television, in other words, go in just days are clearly numbered. I set the I write it. I've four point, five months now? That's that's. Ok, I think. Until Diana anybody know, I can't nobody could say I mean I I wouldn't do that direct Perry? Ok, you that through our that's generous. Ok, I don't know, I'm Trump said yesterday he was happy with pillars and statement this morning. He said what envious reported was false,
and so he can't just fire him. He defended in public his health and Human services secretary of twenty four hours before he was genocide. The habitat was, but there was another piece of information that came out between the twenty four led up between the time we defend. Them in the time that that I don't know another flight another another view, nowhere more, our desire that broke the camel's back. Now know who has the pact there's a pact that that's a secondary? Sorry, that's a secondary story, but I just want to ask one question: elaborating the pack I will, but I just want to ask this question: ok, knotted. You know face it next to the Bible, the godfathers, the source of all wisdom right. So what is it that Jack Waltz the movie executive that Tom Hagen goes to try to get the Frank Sinatra character, the part in from here.
We totally. What does he say says you know he stole this girl from me and basically ever gardener and then he says he made me look dickie less than a man in my position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous. How can from allow till so how? How can trump allow it to bees to be the case that his Secretary of state can insult him like that in private being trump, whose warlike Jack Waltz than Jack Waltz? How can we possibly can right but won't, but he's already so you're saying because he jettison price after twenty four hours. The fact that he's said nice things by terrorism for the last twenty four hours is means nothing means nothing. He has full confidence in all the people who use fire and right up until the second he doesn't and the second he doesn't they go and it usually pray-
Quick got. Another problem is that Trump has a real staffing problem. If you were to jettison his Secretary of state to be the third cabinet level official, that would be gone with no injury, replacing them no interest in pushing the Senate to put something on the calendar, no nominees and nobody interested apparently, and even serving in that position to say nothing of his chiefs adviser, who we also got rid of the white houses, is really being staffed by some skeletons at this point. But the White House a strange industries while of course get rid of sleep and you get rid of Steve Baron cause. You don't needs the baron. Stay bad. It is just a guy sitting in an office with no particulars, bustling responsibility, secretaries of state and secretaries of homeland Security and secretaries of helping human services have statutory responsibilities. Under law- I mean they are. They are administrators of federal law.
Flows through them. You know they have an independent existence. Aside from their service of the pleasure, the president, they they, they are required to report the congressional committees the status of various things. They have to certify certain types of events. You know whether or not we are in compliance with various things and whether about other countries or in compliance with their responsibilities and obligations you cannot leave those positions empty for perverse Lowry has a good piece, I'm sorry logic. You know here we are talking about survey, you can even there, which will be happy. Russia hurts Lowery, has a good piece. Congratulations! We right on your good, bringing about what we were talking about. The entry involved here and whether or not tensions days are numbered and haven't frumpy metal. The other reality too. This is what a remarkably and frighteningly dysfunctional farm policy, see this must make four at a time when we are, we are being faced with this raising North Korea problem and this
is the state of the baby relationship between the president and the Secretary of state. It speaks actually too. Horrible of last year's of the Obama administration. Where that the Middle EAST has been so placid and soon states have been so and the right to a reproach with the United States that they are their doing so without any guidance right from the state department. But I'd be the judge here is the tiller. Some is an incredibly ineffective secretary of state, in any case partially by his own design. He doesn't want to staff he's against putting people into jobs, the white houses has Kai botched all kinds of people for jobs. I think there are like five hundred jobs there that have gone empty there. Only sixty seven confirmed officials in the state department at this point in the other administrations urban, where over a hundred and fifty something like that, but he doesn't want to staff them. He. He thinks that one of the ways to deal with bloated the state department or save our having too many missions is to leave jobs open
Well, that's very nice and everything, but you know that that that is not. The way government works? These positions exist because in many ways they were, they were created by Congress who live, who created gag improbable positions that have to be After a certain way in the budget of the State Department reflects the idea of it being fully fully filled and so great so then grant let the stage Mormons budget be much smaller. That's fine but we don't know how anything is functioning. All we ever here is tillers doesn't talk to anybody is to AIDS in his office. He talks to. One of them is really unpleasant, apparently in yells at everybody, and nobody in the White House likes either and you know, ok so now we should be ready to Washington of written out I'll, go to the writ riches, pieces really good and so good. We know of the day. What is what is it? He made a point that I think is is worth reviewing is that there is a sort of two philosophies for being the Secretary of state. One is dead man
the interests of the building foggy bottom, which is how Colin Powell approached it, which can have a tendency to alienate the president, but it keeps all the bureaucrats in the office Happy! The other is to manage the interests of the president, which how calmly rice approached it and sacrifice the building in the process, which makes for a very insurrection every state department, which is what Conny Rice faced when she was secretary, tourism has done. Neither in law estimation, which is why everybody doesn't like em has no real vested interests and whether he succeeds are not really look. The whole point about Why this cabinet is that everybody took a flyer on everything. Trump didn't think he was gonna. Win so he's like. Ok, let me have a secretary of state, bake off and then candy rice, called events. Ignoring should pick Rex tellers is really good. Ran. Exxon is really great guides, always like. Ok, I met with seventeen people in time. Picking this guy extortion runs ex items. Amazing is old, he's gotta, go gray. Jolly looks like the Secretary of state. I pick em
you're, my friend Stephen Ocean. Why? Because you know he was like a guy was with me and he's a nice guy goes every was good. Gary cones, like you know, he's democratically came with the gale invested, Ameer Ali ugly and they're all like what the hell I'll be Secretary of the Treasury. What do I know? I just produce Superman verses, bad men and the Lego movie imperfect. I'm per to run the Treasury, the allies you're Hamilton and me: that's it Alexander Hamilton, you know, produce them a little pony movies, and I produce the Lego, Batman Movie, and so I'm perfect for it. Jericho, Like I just I lost the bake, offer Goldman Sachs a guy got six hundred million dollars. I would rather defer my tax payments on so I go into. The government Maybe I'll get to be the first year? What the hell they're! That's one too, like buy back? Some did by bankers amass outside, can said interest rates. Why? What you know that the nature of their solutions like everybody else,
Forty years, if I leave I'll get toward her billion dollars by wife says, I should do it, what the hell but was tiller sins complaint, allegedly according to the New York Times that he said that the president is this standing lamp, I'm paraphrasing, but he did use in adverb. Astoundingly ignorant on foreign affairs. This is Rex Tiller sin whose done in his life, but sit on top of x on mobile and may be travelled across the world advocating for x. I mobiles interests, but has no idea about how governments to governments, but also, I have to say in all that I think, till it took pillars and has shown nothing but trepidation written this job. The whole time serve oozing regret to do in this. There I mean even even before this he he's he struck me as someone who is and is not particularly thrilled about dollar. If, if, if we take Tis admonition at heart
and that the present easy more on and does not know anything about foreign policy and I'm not making a judgment. Call there two saying that's how he thinks right then. What's he supposed to do? How is he supposed to manage the present? its policy. There is a lack of legal you to his ideas. If he doesn't what they are look. There are two ways of looking this, one of which is if he really feels this way, he says I cancer view I can serve here. I don't have your confidence in Europe have mine and somebody needs to do this because there is, there is a deficit, there's a gap of trust him The other is oh, my god, which I think is James Madison from what we can tell it's like. I got it They hear and see what I can do to save America, because they, if I'm not here, God, knows- what's gonna happen at the pact right. That's the story of a pact that violate the other way. Additives, rich, rich, wrote a really good piece, but not about this. I just want to remind you about riches, really talk about the path of high set
since the apparently. This is reporting Buzzfeed. I don't know if it's from within the Washington examiners examiner. First then Buzzfeed reported it maybe more confirmed I think it was Kelly. Madison mattress until arson am minutiae, I'm going to the story, which is what makes it suspicious yeah that'd, suspicious I so that the generals, until her son, makes sense on that mission, but if it's one one gets jettisoned, they all go and I would present Donald Trump with a problem. And he could not immediately article five of the Trump administration in its article five. Nato's gonna want is an attack on all right right, so it's like you fire any of us four of us leave, but then it is, but that of that reveals to the ex, if that's true but that reveals the extent to which outgoing senator Bob porkers very disheartening comments were completely accurate with it viewed and echoed within the West Wing, which is that this amount
restoration would be a complete and absolute disaster. Without these three members doing what they're doing keeping the president in check. They are literally mandatory country out of chaos about enrietta thing, so wisdom out. Presumably there would be nothing but chaos. Now, if this were the ace in this way functional administration- and there was any merit to this story- Trump Wood fire, all of them, Simon, honestly that isn't near coup he can't be present can be put in a position being blackmailed on the you know by by members of his administration who say we are going to let you know we're going to do, nude you and go out and attack you outside. If you try to do anything because one of us loses your, once they have no right to do that. What's why they it's a betrayal of their own, thereby their individual officials serving the pleasure that when they can do whatever they want, but he should for, if it in writing,
so administration. A story like this is reported somebody investing agencies of its true and if it's true, they all go, they all he has to do a massacre at once. Same way. The moron thing is an issue for him in the long term, if his, if people work for him can openly belittle him in in me implore, even important private meetings with each other, then he's got a disciplinary, problem he has to address, or God knows what is being done in his name and for him now of course, again he's the ultimate guy. Was like what they know I'll run for presidency. If I win, you know he's also. This house things a fly or for him. You know You can see how you know the fact that he is now present member, we always said like your tested by things, you never knew your can be tested by so he's tested by the fact that Puerto Rico flattened by a hurricane in what is,
you do. He says you're out the earth try to stay out here. You guys you're, you're, bankrupt you're screwing with us. Your mayor is me, and you know what's more. This is a success story. Look how well I'm doing we're doing so great at this ghetto. So how's, he handled the unexpected grow crises. Not well, I would say it looked like he was doing away or whatever the country was doing. Ok with with the the domestic ones, your Harvey in the way the hurricane head, though, with a hurricane, helped Florida, but but not this sooner certainly and and these are- and these restrictive in a sense, easier, unexpected crises to him, because these These just involve optics really, I mean you know answered organization for on up from the broadest level. Back
where there are gonna, be challenges where he has to make real policy on in indian vary in very trying situations and that's a whole other. Doubling back doubling back to LAS Vegas, I mean even that. To be honest, I mean to be ruthlessly This, like the event, is over get out. Paddock is dead, he did the shooting. The people are injured. All the president can do in the aftermath of that really, aside from somehow, you are creating revolutionary policy opportunities for gun control, which is not going to happen. Is serve as some kind of a national Warner and chief right, so that that too, an enormous amount of history of how you do that both badly and well right in and so there isn't that even that counts is something that is relatively predictable. We still haven't gotten with the possible exception of North Korea. Even therein on Tibet quote quite right.
Access to the same level of Europe, the rise of ISIS or the children at the border or deepwater horizon, or those sorts of unprecedented Katrina which was an unprecedented event- the that first real major horrifying. You know hurricane that you now destroyed half a city in also those are, in that sense, predictable. We still haven't yet had the unpredictable event. I think it's pretty clear that if we have an unpredictable event, what trouble do was focus on one person or a couple of people who are mean to him and then just Sir spent days on twitter, going after their jugglers M having certain anti anti trumpery in the media coming up with bizarre defenses of why this is a goods expenditure of his time and effort and how he is right that the mayor of Puerto Rico is bad and the leftist an awful
cheap. You now get tee shirts made mysteriously magically like that, has anything to do with anything metal. I don't know, but you know you know how rich Lowery had a good column you. I heard that well, riches, Our will be just a month from this week. On stage in New York City, at the commentary magazine roast Jonah, Goldberg, rich Rob long deputy producer of CBS Kevin can wait. Brett Bare of special report was bred. Bear and Steve hazy. Error. The weekly standard, among others, rival with rib three and amusements, taking Jonah down a few pegs for the benefit of com, Terry Magazine, a five or one c, three non profit. So if you want to come to that roast, go to
commentary magazine dotcom slashed tickets, you'll see that we are it's it's it's an ask. It's good, I stick a good price tables, but all but Two hundred dollars opportunity dollars of that money is tax, deductible good cause fantastic evening. Mrs, are either seventh Eighth such roast previous Rusty's have included Dick Cheney Bill Crystal Charles crowd, hammer my parents, nor, imports and Mitch director. These are great events and Jonah deserves it. Let's face it, I mean you know not so much with the food has got. The food is very good and you get a cookie gotta to get a special commentary magazine cookie as your exit gift. Sometimes we give mugs when they are, we gave. Was it a chargers? Do those of phone charger, and this year it gonna get a cookie and we take. We
gonna get a please described the cookie. I loved it he rubbed the correct, cookie kind of its kind of like a short bread, pudding, sauce, shortbreads, he's got automaton, it's got. Some process got commentaries logo on it and it is part of a normal. People who care about that are doubtless thing today, because it's a coat of I'm sorry. We recording on a coat but remember its part, so you can have it with me, can have with dairy. You can have it eggs whatever you want. It's perfect a cookie and Jonah, Goldberg and rich lowries, really good article followed by rich LAO Israel, which only made a fantastic toast at the at the speech at the Charles Crown Hammer. Roast- and so I am looking forward to his performance next next at the commentary magazine Roast John Gilbert Commentary magazine that come slash, tickets, ticklish and Ford
rather than in a room while I'm John ports keep the candle burning.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-13.