some guy is welcome The commentary magazine podcast today is August thirty. First, twenty seventeen I'm no arrangement It's me, as always, is our senior editor a green wall? I know it's John is out an undisposed location and domestic sort of facility with his family enjoying himself, and we will leave it at that. He will be back next week. I shoot domestic facility sounds suddenly very suspicious. I mean minimum security were. Don't worry about him he's doing just fine. It come

and join us on commentary magazine dot com? Where we give you a few free reads, and then we asked me to subscribe. One thousand nine hundred and ninety five gives you a digital subscription. Two thousand nine hundred and ninety five gives you an all access subscription and our beautiful monthly print magazine in your mailbox. You want us to come and greenback How can we can read me as well as many other luminaries in the field of cultural and political analysis. It's worth your time, we're gonna begin today with a little story that is not being covered to the. Extent that it should be, which is the forthcoming corruption trial of a new Jersey, Senator Bob Menendez, its we're. We're not gonna talk too much about it, because there's not a lot to talk about, but this week the prosecutors put forward their allegations against the senator, and they are I popping pretty significant and they include most signal But for me in the

assertion that former Senate. Minority leader Harry read it Meanwhile, when he was majority leader actually intervene on behalf of bourbon and as at his request, to get the Obama administration to weigh in on the investigation into him and possibly even to lean on the Justice Department. We don't know, but these are very serious allegations. And it's the first thing that somebody should be paying attention to. Although no one is theirs, there's nothing resembling charges coming up against red now. This word no not yet, if ever there's no, I don't. I don't know whether or not these or even prosecutable allegations, but there certainly allegations of corruption, of a kind that you. Think, what resonate even in concern.

Would have MIDI. I mean we're thing. Conservative media sorted this just beginning to resonate, but not as though this isn't knew. We ve known that this trial is coming along. These allegations are new, but with none. This trial was gonna, be something worth attention for some time and we're still talking about Hilary server right holders did Doctors name abomination eleven, but is it Magellan, knock lights? Close our thinking now might then negligent something like something I forget it looks like modality. I mean. Regardless of the outcome. Just the b b, lengthy description of the free private, plain private jet, lights, that apparently both Red and Menendez Turkey and the vacation spots and and in its all just sleazy, very sorry. But you know what frustrating is free traits me, I think, is that the right has attend. See to lean into this,

phenomenon that happens quite often where there was this allegation. I don't know if you remember right. Two thousand and thirteen there was allegation that it involved child sex scandals like that, had something to do with this, and it feels like child sex scandals pull up from the the fringes of right. You know conspiracy, theory in I, that's that's what got the Deranged individual to shoot up, comet pizza in in Washington DC the allegation or some sort of a child sex ring operated by Democrats in the basement There is some in a variety of other allegations that just have to do with this really sorted behaviour in so bizarre because it gives Democrats the opportunity to say well, you're just crazy when what is being alleged here is certainly not crazy. I've just war boilerplate corrupt, the tat kind that cost you your job. Yes, certainly- and you know it is true that the way I think the one when you start talking about this- rumours that

sex Ghana's whatnot. It's this. Duff brings up sort of our worst darkest fears and fantasies about the nature of politicians in general, and this here we go to, though the through the worst play. With it, and I always wonder when these things come up. How many other senators and and people similarly position darting arts of quaking in their boots and saying ok, can I can. I hope it will find out about my three flights, my vacations, by little call helping out silence. Oh you know it's there. It's maybe maybe that has a lot to do with. Why haven't heard a whole bunch. I mean there's is the sort of the demands of just a collegial atmosphere in the upper chamber and end even politics in general. Were you now that the there should?

the presumption of innocence obviously and the senator is presumed innocent, which we should protest, explained in the broadest sense. What the stories about me that he's dead he's done. These is accused of having done political favours fur along long time friend of his was a doctor who was accused of bilking. I guess was Medicare first, over overcharging. Overcharging, the government for services and then so Menendez was supposed to was, was alleged of trying to pull strings, to help him and then trying to lean on Harry redo to to do the same. Apparently, there's reports that Red spoke to a White House staffer about this and the staff or decline to do anything about it and that sort of the state of the case that that plus a lot of details through lurid details about vacations and private jets and whatnot,

So this is a story that you should be paying attention to cause very few people are and when it does explode, you're gonna- be on the cutting edge of this, because you were aware of it when everybody else was still talking about Hillary Clinton, server or Russia. Or what have you moving on now to the real focus of today's podcast isn't isn't Democrats behaving badly, but really democratic voters, he hastening badly we're gonna go full tribal today. This the arc of today's podcast begins with a talk that California Centre. Diane Feinstein was giving two constituents and she was discussing the nature of the Trump presidency and House was coming to terms essentially with the term presidency, and she said: look the guy's probably going to serve out his full term, so we're gonna have to come to terms with that fact, and I really do hope he learns on the job.

And the audience, went up like a tar bout. Boo furious with the notion that a dioxin wasn't giving countenance to the idea that some, though some deliverance from the Trump era prematurely and be that she hoped there he performed better on the job as that something we should reject. It struck me as as sort of them a democratic parties problem microcosm, because democratic voters want to be delivered from the trunk era and are eager for somebody to feed that fantasy, which, as you know, who knows perhaps he could resigned, but the notion of impeachment seems fanciful and any other means of getting out of office early are just not available. So it's it's just reality that Diane find sound was saying in the audience. Didn't wanna hear reality. That seems like a big problem for Democrats, yet I think there's this long standing.

Exacerbating rupture between, like you stay fishermen left. Or the establishment Democrats and be activist left in the gulf. Rose and grass grows and in the obviously it produced the split between the roof. In Hilary camps and now we see that this, if if, if the it is for a politician who is looking up a career and perhaps hoping to get things done, are far dick. For then, these incentives of this fire breathing activists, who absolutely cannot imagine, cannot face but they say over and over again is quote normalizing Trump and what what what and send really said was a sort of was it was a conversion of normalization? Look he's gonna be there. Maybe he can learn if he learns heap, maybe even could be good and

that was a bridge too far and between her clarifying remarked she didn't really walked back. She she was she's sort of further set. Look, I don't. I don't have an unexpected learner get better, but I might have to hope he does. There is nothing to walk back, what right, what her without audience wanted to hear, is this guy's a racist anathema who does belong in the oval office and we will do everything within our power and maybe some things outside of our power to eject him from that office. They wanted to hear her say he's not. My president is not represented. That's exactly what they want to hear and honestly there are. We too many, people on the left who are feeding into the impulse to the point where we move on to our next little tad bed in our her journey through democratic ridiculous is needed, Does he who also did something responsible this week, and

she didn't do it out of altruism. I can tell you that much Nancy Policy issued a statement yesterday, which was an unequivocal condemnation of eighty five, the organisation that we talked about the other day, podcast number one on Monday, that executed some sort of a riot type event, where, in the name of no hate, they organise the paramilitary siege of Berkeley. California, to counter demonstrate against some trump supporters, not white nationalists, not NEO, Nazis, Trump supporters who, by the way, wanted to provoke a reaction in boy. Did they get one? And these anti by demonstrators were violent and they vandalized property and they attacked people and they put somebody in the hospital and Nancy blows. It came out and criticise you. People very forcefully said: violence has no place in the United,

it's. Now. I don't really think she was doing that entirely out of a desire to be you know decent and express civic propriety, although she probably did do that in some ways it was pretty much elementary political competence, because, while a lot has been said about the racially charged right, a whole lot has not been said about the reciprocal violence that we have seen on the left and as much as it doesn't have any real fealty to the Democratic Party, its leftist movement. It's a liberal movement and people are gonna start to notice that this leftist movement, which is drawing energy from being anti Trump, has a political home and, frankly, that those of us who been paying attention to this sort of thing, no, that there's a subculture on the left

there has been indulging in violence indulging in the prospect of political violence and legitimizing the prospect of political violence in a way that it has no parallel on the right in places that are pretty respectable. Ro outlets, the nation Magazine Mother Jones Magazine the New Republic go into detail about those and. It will in a little bed. Yet this is another perfect example of the establishment activists split on the left and I've been seeing in social media sort of left people left treaty, anti far and charge against Anti fond complaints about anti far really as if it were fake news, sort of saying that I've I've I've, heard everything from from that there are probably russian backed,

sort of provocateur exactly yet false flag right right, yet either their treaty like a false. What and and here now you have. You have Nancy Blowsy, saying liquidity, and this is why we ve gotta bring, a semblance of reality to bear on on what's going on here and that an that's precisely what the ATLAS based doesn't do. I see the same thing and social media when you when the right says you know, look as violence on all sides is bad and there. There really is. Actually a moral equivalency to violent people on the right and violent people on the left. Who are radical extremists because one side as racist and the other, ostensibly isn't. The left doesn't see the moral equivalency there. In fact, the violences, if not entirely justified, at least understandable, maybe even a little of ours,

reading. Then this has been going on for a long time. You know you ve heard me talk about ad nauseam the event in Sacramento a year ago, which in a week you should read up on. If you haven't been, it was really horrifying moment. Definitely the precursor to what happened in Charlottesville, which we should have talked about at the time and we didn't and we reaping the rewards of that. But since Donald Trump came to office, there has been a real subculture on the left that sort of looks to vial as an appropriate way to deal with these sort of conditions and the nineteenth of January, the nations Natasha Leonard, who is a paramilitary herself scoffed at the notions. That quote liberals clean Two institutions. Unquote, meanwhile, quote it- is the rat

Go left so often tarred is irrational, who are calling upon both the? U S in european histories of anti fascist actions, to offer practical and serious responses in this political moment, and she then takes us on a history lesson through the bolshevist movements of the twentieth century in the righteousness and all the blood they spelled We went through inauguration day when there was a ton of violence and a ton of vandalism and the white supremacist activists. Richard Spencer was sucker punished in the face on video we had New York Times profiles, I mean in the news section asking: is it ok to punch a Nazi as though this is like a really weighty philosophical question?. If required in a real in excess So I thought

There was the women's March, for example, the New republic, just Zimmermann complained about the women's March because it was not transgress have enough and that their warm enough people being beat up, and she thought that that was because too many white women is that white women are protected, by the police. The women's March is also where I believe Madonna got up and said she seriously thought about bombing. The White House was it. I think that one. Seattle here here, so it so there's there's a strain of it all through the leaves of left protest culture from this Celebrity activists statements were down to grassroots organisations, organizations

is this. I my any me right s very right. It's actually call by any means necessary, one of the inn in a glowing profile of this, among other violent, ostensibly violent groups and a profile on Mother Jones in May titled. A new wave of left wing militants is ready to rumble in Portland and beyond. Portland was a response to a right wing. Lunatic who were was making was attacking verbally, some muslim women and somebody intervened, and this route rightwing lunatic, stabbed some people that red provoked a reciprocal response that was widely disproportionate from these the militant laughed and these the militant left was being celebrated among those organizations with by any means necessary, which was the group that started this Sacramento riot, led by a woman named eventful ARCA, who was recently charged with

statement to violence for her role. In that event, in one of the organizations organizers, a similar rights attorney by the name of shot, a driver said quote when we say by any means necessary, we mean everything from doing legal cases to organizing more militant actions. This is like one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight stuff now nobody's saying right now that there is no violence on the right or there is no violent sentiment on the right this. You know this white nationalist thing didn't come from nowhere, But we re rightwing magazines and left wing magazines, and I haven't seen anything remotely like this in in popular right wing culture. I'm struggling to not me I something that was even remotely similar that could be interpreted? Well, the only legitimate your back one step. Mental development is also you know this. This was actually you all in play when the Occupy Movement rose up to their work,

by offshoots that that actually were throwing pipe bombs, and I forget there is a group of five guys stung by the FBI that were trying to investigate how to buy explosives to blow up a bridge in Ohio exactly right, and there is also Rebecca the seizure of importance in England in and right to enact the pavement and Similarly, there was not only the violence, but there was the denial among occupy fellow travellers at the time. Oh, that's not the same as what occupied yeah. I just once fairness there there peacefully occupying they're, not they're, not Europe- and yet It was all there, it was all. It was all readily available for anyone to see are the only thing that I even remotely, think of and on the right at the inn, respectable right circles. Isn't? Is this often hear talk,

coming civil war. But that's not, but that's a sort of abstract analysis we know in with them requires all sorts of of journalists are further further special, occasions about what they mean by that and its more? You know it's not that I know it's on a plan, and except on the crazy fringe, dreams that argument being investigated and what will? I think, that's a really good point, and when you see that sort of talk which by The way we we call but whenever we see it as a good thing to do right now we may see that kind of talk, I'm thinking of like Dennis and was a demonstrator. Now, maybe it wasn't demonstrator was mentioned. A coming all right, yeah watching various national review? I think it was remember anyway owes it wasn't it, We recently, and it comes from people who are very pro trump who are doing their best to create

rationalizations and justifications in their head for wider, compromising their principles left and right in service to this president and one of the ways in which they do that transparently Is to say that this is an existential moment were living through AIDS, the flight, ninety three election for ever and ever and ever because in the event that they turn their backs on Donald Trump or whatever, this the moment demands of them. The moment that we lose the country and then they do you, civil war rhetoric to it to justify this post, in their heads, and that is irresponsible, but it is calling for militant action right, organizing militant actions and we are seeing organised militant actions right on the left. You know mostly the civil war, such as to clarify that I had that. I hear that I read that comes out of the right is more along the lines of can imagine that we're heading in any other direction, but an eventual

of a war. It's not you now! Ok, get your guns meet me here. It's you know. If, if things keep up at this right, if we keep, if we're a splitting apart, so dramatically and obviously in quickly then than were headed for civil war. That's the kind of analysis- and I bet that stuff is out there, but I haven't seen him in anything: that's the equivalent of storied hundred Euro publications like the nation or the New Republic or Mother Jones, and these are pretty mainstream liberal. Innovations and the notion, by the way that these are only being read by conservatives and liberals, you don't see, there's rip mainstream. Reporters are shocked, shocked positively by the notion that these people are who they are. Today I saw an image of that Florida in court, responding to the charges that she's been charged with fur, her role in sacramento- and I see this reporters going well look at our she's. U not. She was an elementary school teacher, she's five foot, nine she's got glasses and bangs she's a harmless little thing and like you just you had no

do you know you never even bothered to research? This thing is, though, it's it's a conservative fixation and then you're stunned when Berkeley, so what set alight I'm buying I think maybe right when it comes to em Nancy Pelosi, because in particular her her pre emptive denunciation of this group, naturally preemptive, but more preempted than because it's gonna get worse before it gets better. Sort of stands in contrast to how she wrapped her arms around the Occupy movement. Remember it's like it's gonna, be effective seals, young, its vivid or whenever she said, and then it turned out to be a movement that was sort of these slovenly. An archipelago of refugee camps, full of rape, such friends. That's right, violent people, so the left a sort of coming to terms with the fact that they have this violent element among them their ranks, and I thought

The the more establishment Darien political wing of this movement is trying to be responsible and the activist wing. The militant wing just doesn't want to hear it. Sort of sea it's like. They see it as a display of treachery, almost like a lack of fealty to the cause Yes, that's the mirror image of rhinos, precisely like you have to be really zealous in any entered to acknowledge existing political realities is not is a display of, while lack of zealous let zealotry for the cause which brings us to my last thought. We're we're losing things right. This is this is the thought. Is that we're losing the moment we're losing the country were losing the presidency? Don't you wish you could find these things again. Maybe you need like a device to find your country. Your point

balls your moment again. Well, there is one way to do that. That we have these rituals. We have rituals of looking for things, and you know just like we're looking for a moment, our place in the country sometimes you're. Looking for your keys were your wallet and what do you do Can you check where are places that you normally lose these things like the couch or your kitchen or your pockets? Weird places like the bathroom the fridge, wandering hamper and then you start getting creative. His am look long and a look of a penal jar. For my key, your keys urban, the peanut jar look there's an easy way to get rid of this problem. Eight years ago, Tracker changed everything when they released there first tracking device, and now they ve done it again with the all new tracker pixel, with Tracker pixel, you'll, never have to worry about losing things again. Tracker pixel is the lightest blue tooth tracking device on the market, place Traxler Tracker, It's all on whenever you tend to lose your keys, your wallet, even your cat.

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finding your things and trackers thirty day money back guarantee means you will truly have nothing to lose and go to the tracker website at the tracker dot com enter promo code commentary to get twenty percent off any order. That's t h e t, R, a sea k are dot com, use, promo code commentary for twenty percent off the tracker dot com promo code commentary. So I had something else that a kind of one or two points of view, and I guess it's sort of theoretical. Why don't you first tell us where we are with the North Korea threat when we last left it was a threat, but we haven't had a serious escalation that we had on Monday afternoon. Will they ve been Damon wrapping up these missile tests, since Trump has become present,

The latest serious one was, if I refer your what day, this was my man whose Monday where they were. They flew a intermediaries, pleasant, nausea over over japanese island and. It's bad. We have asked the first first time that they ve done that since two thousand nine, the third time that they violate a japanese airspace with airspace with a missile. Ninety ninety eight, two thousand nine and now each time was met with a very serious response and one of the responses were starting to see- which I think is kind of disturbing when I want to explore- is the notion that the only real way to resolve this thing is

two nuclear eyes. Japan diplomacy is off the table. Essentially the president said as much the other day Tuesday. I think it was. And the end of the defence departments has wandered. Diplomacy is never off the table, but the President saying we're not talking anymore and frankly, that jobs with what we hear from our allies that we're not interested in doing anything. That's not a hard economic power or hard military power solution to this issue, but the hard military solution to this issue, the catastrophic nobody even wants to contemplate it, so the only other option would be to surrender to the necessity of nuclear rising Japan was likely means the nuclear relation of South Korea, because South Korea is deeply suspicious of japan- deeply suspicious of China, have decreased, visited North Korea and we

essentially be saying to our allies at that stage that the American Nuclear Umbrella isn't worth the money. That's me no written on the Czech, so you're off, even offend for yourself, and both those nations have the capacity to develop a pretty simple actual nuclear deterrent within a couple of months right, and it would also be essentially be saying we're going to opt for proliferation as an out. That that's our new policy, everyone they mean this is every everyone arm up, because we're we're we're not gonna keep border What Donald from settlements were high campaign a couple of times that everybody is developed nuclear weapons, so the thinking oh, is that Japan gets nukes scares the heck at Beijing has now they have a an adversary in North EAST Asia that has achieved nuclear parity and they get off the sidelines, an engineer, some sort of a away too,

offering this this North Korea crisis whatever that may be. I don't even know if anybody's thought that far but some sort of a peaceful resolution to the king regime and the various frustrations that it that is responsible for over the course of how many decades now so I had this thought, which is kind of some deep. I our theory but it's not to do I'll get into it. So we have. This is the sort of strikes me as what's a multi polar dynamic, what I mean by that is that there are three stages of international relations structures. The first is polar, which is the structure in which we are living. Now we are blessed beyond belief to live in a period of unit polarity in which the United States,

a german, and there is no other power that comes even remotely close in terms of our power. There have been a couple of other unipolar is in history and they all are associated with pieces, great pieces that are maintained by that hedge among the Pox Ramona, the pact's Britannica, we're in the middle one right now, no peace, so great is ours now or has the best is the biggest peace? Yes huge. The second condition is by polarity, and now you can think of the cold war where you have to dynamics to poles that are competing with each other, seeking either advantage or the maintenance of the balance of power. These are stable periods, but they're, not peaceful, again, look at the cold war that was annexed dreamily bloody period. It was just one in which the two superpowers never went to war, largely as a result of nuclear weapons

but it was a pretty bloody period for everybody else who wasn't in one of those super and the third dynamic is multi polarity, so there are many poles, and for that you can look to pre world where one Europe Pre World WAR to Europe, are you have parity among the variety of nations? Alliances are fluid, they shift they develop, they dissolve. All in order to keep one another off balance its very difficult to game out how a variable will play in that system, but there are so many variables at work at once that it's easy.

Miss calculate, and there is a reason why they usually devolve into war, because those miscalculations happened frequently, and it only takes one to spiral out of control, so we're answering into a period where its less safe nuclear weapons sort of neutralize the hard power dynamic whence you achieve nuclear capability can deliver a bomb new or a member of the club. So we have nuclear multi polarity in the event that Japan ascends to the nuclear club, because we have a ton of nuclear powers and Asia and a bunch of alliances that are shifting all over the place. So we have the United States and Japan, which are allies. South Korea has a problem with Japan and it's probably going to nuclear rise. North Korea and China are ally, but it's over. It's a sort of fresh

reading alliance, I'm so you would see some sort of a bipolar dynamic there, but you also have to take into account India and Pakistan, which our nuclear powers and they are very much players in this game. The United States has major non NATO allies status with Pakistan, but it's a very tense relationship and were already causing up to India. China has a very big problem with India, which could compel Pakistan to fall into India's sphere that could all or speck extend to fall into China Sphere, which could allow North Korea the opportunity to escape its isolation, and all of these alliances are working in shifting all at once in everybody's trying to play off each other, and you can see how you introduce a couple, a different variables into that dynamic and you lose the plot and the game gets away from him. That's the that's! What I'm thinking, as is the worst case scenario in the event that we have

clear Japan. Everybody thinks that we are going to see the kind of parity and stability that we saw in the cold war, and I am not entirely sure that dynamic is going to hold. This perfectly describes danger in all the thinking, largely among liberal, and left wing fears, but but it also exists on the right, for years and years for decades. In fact, about american decline, and how our influence elite influence, other countries and key piece and two, and to have other countries do our bidding and You have a in American led liberal world order, is coming to an end. Now it's one to say that and an dreaded and work against it. There's always been an element in a lot of these decline, fierce where there's a there's a sort of glee about it like where the worldwide

I'll, be sort of set right because we won't be pushing around, these powers anymore, and when we are the problem, at only works, and it had in fact wouldn't work, even if this were true, but that, with could conceivably only work. If there were let's say the complete eradication of nuclear weapons as opposed to build up the combination of the two with your if you're, going to to set us on a path, a hopeful path of of multi polarity with with without without doing something about new countries acquiring nuclear technology and delivery systems. It is a sure fire recipe for biblical disaster, and we saw

something like a multi. Polar dynamic on a regional scale arise during the Obama administration and its very failed effort to extricate the United States from the Middle EAST. The effort on the part of the Obama administration, albeit unspoken, was to build up a ran, create a powerful around that could represent a balance against a powerful set of Sunni kingdoms and regimes headquarters, sort of loosely around Riad and sort of loosely around Cairo, and that ran was going to build itself up in Iraq. It was going to fill up the vacuum in Iraq at least sort of

and it was going to stabilize the lot and what we saw instead was the saudi kingdoms and the regimes sort of react in terror about that prospect and work in there way to fill up those vacuums in their own way and the alliance structures started getting all fluid like we saw again and we ve seen a remarkable a saw in relations between these Sunni powers in the region and Jerusalem. Israel has become something with which the sunni powers in the region can live with, even without a resolution to the palestinian problem. In fact, the palestinian problem is arguably getting worse and nobody seems to mind at least not in this than the Sunni Capitals, because they have a better bigger problem to deal.

But these dynamics are sort of mutable and when the United States fails to live up to its obligations, the obligations of hyper, Then everybody else steps up. You know I want to say there is one thing that can be done regarding North Korea for Europe, if you're the president and the The north korean regime is amplifying its its threats and rationing up it's it's missile tests and and doing what it does not serve every decade or so be sure fire way to get everyone two's leap, easy once again temporarily, is to give them things. This is what this is, what we ve done again and again, we ve been doing it for decades, the it's

part, the thinking behind their ramping up technology in and threatening us it's to strengthen their negotiating hand I would not be surprised if we do it yet again, despite language. Yes, this The talks of this that the talk of of diplomacy being dead and what not or is it? Is such a temptation to this? This is if there's a can that that that everyone wants to kick down the road and it's this can and there's and there's a way in there's a path to doing it. The huge risk. And the risk builds and build and builds every time we kicked. The can is that their profit nations, that the north korean provocations have to become, larger and larger each time you cannot threatened us with the same thing. You threatened us last time. If what you want is more, I kind of would be surprised if that dynamic Rev restores itself. We do have sort of a conciliatory regime.

In Seoul more than he used. Neither used to you is not exactly sunshine policy, but it still consolation, but It is not any appetite for that Japan. Japan is taking a really hard line with North Korea. This time around there they are, pretty adamantly against talks from everything we ve seen in public. What they want to see is is renewed economic pressure in their lobby very hard for that that Trump Administration is not exactly friendly towards the idea of consolation with North Korea, at least to the ECB but they ve been public about it and we're not dealing with Kim Jong IL anymore, and when we haven't had that, we don't how to had to work with the the regime as it were, because you know you could always ply congenial with a creative class yea, and this guy seems a little a little more

dogmatic, I guess, a little more strict. I'm not sure I just don't know. I don't really see him being all that interested in taking a pay off. He hasn't. We haven't seen anything that signalling that they'll take a pay off, and what do I mean out? We did there. That's did that regime such mystery right structure is: is such a secret You know I mean I mean I'm even if there was an option is it but we can even accept at this stage that the reality is that if we got to the point where they have a reliable deliverable nuclear capability. You know, intercontinental been ballistic missiles, miniaturized bomb and a vehicle? That's can survive for yet reentering to the recital

here. Then we ve excepted the fact that they can drop a missile on thirty thousand american troops in the course of thirty seconds and there's nothing we can do about it. Are we prepared to accept that? I mean we shouldn't be right, of course, right right, but it's not the vacuum Leon do not accepting it entails, the whole other potential harsher right, and we all know it definitely precipitate mass nuclear radiation around the world. If we were to say You know we're just gonna, let this once Lyra the truck, there's nothing can do about that and that would absolutely facilitate Nina nuclear station. I guess from soul in Tokyo and probably elsewhere. I'm nothing! That's that's part of the problem

with thinking that we can contain them. Also. Is that if this isn't, if this doesn't rise to the level of a threat that we simply cannot let stand than than nothing, does you know term and an unpredictable, cruel regime that exists to be cruel and end defy international norms and, of course, north korean provocations, our iranian provocations, the two or inexorably linked? They have commercial and military relations and they fund each other's list Weapons programmes ran, is pretty much Viet accompanying nuclear power. We are of dancing around that notion, but the around the essentially cemented its ability to break out whenever a really wants to and we introducing that into the asian Multi Polar Dynamic extends the mould. Polar dynamic into the Middle EAST. Where you also have aspired. Nuclear powers the leg

Saudi Arabia, who could very easily started program or by an off the shelf weapon from Pakistan, which we know they ve been interested in doing it in the past, which would precipitate nuclear station all across the region And we're talking about a lot of intersecting alliances that are just it's just too easy to trip one of those wires and that that's the fear and its one. I don't think very many people have really contemplated because it's a very complicated you know I mean I'm not talking about something, that's easy to comprehend. Frankly, there are so many variables that you just can't play them out and be because it's really scary Just go anywhere refer him, I suppose we do not. We succeeded, we got, I think we ve. We. We even without John here we have achieved, This is a morality. That's not morality! That's terror!

For a number of its crushing should be Etas crushing he should be overwhelmed with fear, but not morality. It's not as though weaken we're. We're there's no options here. We are in control of our own fates and our own destinies. These are not this is. This is not true destination- we're not Calvinists here. This is we can get out of this. If we all work together to this is my fondest hope ended up the signals are without that we're gonna say goodbye for the end,

its commentary. Pa cast John we'll be back with us on Monday. I know you're dying for he will be here. I promise loo and that will be the beginning of the fall season where we get to talk about fun. Things like the dead ceiling in the budget and continuing resolutions and the wall, and thank you for listening. This has been the commentary magazine. Podcast keep the candle Bernie.