On this podcast, the COMMENTARY crew takes on Israel-Gaza border clashes and the effort to create a new border clash on the U.S.-Mexico border. And we talk about how Noah Rothman is the most dangerous person on earth. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the commentary magazine. Part has today is Monday April. Second, two thousand and eighteen, I am John Paul words. The other commentary, the seventy three euro, monthly of political pro intellectual analysis and cultural criticism from a conservative perspective join us and Commentary magazine dot com. When we give you a few free reads and then asked you to subscribe, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five for a digital subscription, two thousand nine hundred and ninety five for an all access subscription included monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times a year with me as always on their sir Fur day pass over
a great wall are seen rather hi, hi John, nor Rossman or associate at her, I know now. I gotta stop here because I'm scared. I'm scared me in the studio with you today, because in the middle of your morning, Joe appearance this morning, one to twitter name blues bid to Sir blue Sab desk Desir Hell? You see, we d c r, God only knows says, is from South like Texas, his twitter Bio were first to himself ass. He is a member of the resistance. The blue waved. Twenty eight in Dhaka, with pathway resist, never again indivisible turn Texas, blue tweets. Quote. Noah see, Rossman is as much a danger to America, as is Trump so Abe one.
When your children ask you. Why did you fail to neutralize this threat when you had the opportunity? I d, I know how you will look them in the eye, and so I did nothing As I told you earlier today, that's all well and good. But the issue is now now we have tree eyes. We have no with. This is a grim battle conditions here. I dont think we can talk about his how we got here. We just have to deal with the threat as it is now a threat They know a threat that is sort of Mario cigarette or high syrup syrup, what are we going to do about that we're sitting in this room? We have no idea this. This room is so small and were in here with a danger, a clear danger to american two layers of closed doors between us and I don't know what to do. I just think we have to like to say yes to everything he says today has he's a day, you're too America think we sacrifice yourselves right now and save the country. We stop, we stop Noah, No one wants to make the first move
The parallel we ve been through this many times in history. We now have a sense. I an Ex Poland, its Oh, you know, and looking back at me, we are. We are. We know that dino conservative sometimes a reactionaries. They looked back to a greater passed in history. Apparently Trump pull, seems to be meeting admiral I'll go with the with the royal family the kingdom of the two sicilies, a talents, pre researcher mental state that has not existed since eighteen sixty, you know so I know of no threat, maybe we're pre Westphalia. Madam, I want to know we're gonna do one day. I hope the rough enable carry as far as the bourbons But, but that that would be that would that would be an presently. I went over the spirit that I got where the can claim Ismail right. Well cases
bourbon right, There is some Rossman cigarettes are used to be Osmond men's, whereby I think that closed Rossman, discount men's where in union Square here in New York, where, by the way it appear, The snow seems to have stopped, but have we had this bizarre April? Second snowstorm that. Excited only one person, America, as far as I can tell the year the political forecaster Harry anyone who alone with a great many people in the world of political who are interested in pulling their seems be a combination of their either interested in sports and Sabre metrics, or whether there is a lot. Whether an polling I guess this is probable without a melody right, but is interested in right, but does seem today is interesting, and yet so Harry is having a great time celebrating the fact that we have in fact had
more than thirty inch snowfall here in New York City this year. I'm sure you're all very excited to hear that. Well, gentlemen, so over the weekend or starting Friday on the border between Israel and Gaza, we have had clashes between Gaza and Palestinian, Protesters end the israeli army that has and says these protests have of course ignited day firestorm criticism of Israel which, because it responded with some with deadly force, in some cases, rubber bullets and others to provocations. On the on the a fortified barrier between Gaza and and Israel, and I'm gonna, set up a couple of
scenarios or explanations, were reasons for the controversy and then ask you to respond to each so First, is the general Leftist M dub human rights quote on Quote organization: approach, which is, oh, my God, these protesters we're doing nothing. They just approach the wall with rocks and with and with time. There's a they were gonna set on fire than the Israelis fired on them, and this is of active veto. Dapper Dan. From a human rights violation, a monstrous you know, assertion of power over of over by people who are just engaged in in protest, and even if the protest were violent, which ok, it was, in some cases the violence, the israeli response was disproportionate and what could they do? What could what could you do with it?
tyre that you set on fire and rolled toward the fence. What difference would it make how it is real, be threatened by that? So that is, First, and you know you have the situation of German, carbon, the head of the British Labour Party under fire now for three weeks straight for his foot, see playing with outright out mount anti Semites on social media and on Facebook and refusing to deal with the outbreak of open antics, what does it mean? The labour party very relieved lividly tweeting about how evil Israel, which is both for having responded this way. Thus, Sap feeling that somehow he could get himself onto the offensive after being on the defensive for so long and of course, era. One, the dictator of the NEO, did the mere dictator of Turkey, saying that Israel is now the Nazi Germany, not that that's a new idea for him and
as I say, the entire left us press and bushy, you know Combine singing Jews saying the same thing, so hey Buddy, whatever it takes This argument that, oh, they were just happy protest, authors being just explain expressing their bad express. How awful their circumstances are, and then the horrible really Israelis widely seen a lot of mainstream reporters echoing I'll I'll, be it so the mark or kind enough to say that we couldn't independently verify that statistic, but that there were seventeen deaths when the idea of soldiers shot into these protestors, who were run rushing their past,
fishing. The government of Israel says that fifteen of them that they were then rather ten of them that they were then, if I were terrorists, Hammas or members, with a terrorist background, at least something similar to that. But the gun, Health ministry says that it was seven hundred and fifty plus people, mostly civilians, who were injured, wounded in this shooting episode common sense. I think would lead me to believe that its highly unlikely for there to be seven hundred and fifty people injured by gunfire and only have fifteen casualties, so those Europe. Is it into the extent their real if their verifiable and again people can't verify it? They would be the result of chaos. Commotion, people stepping on one another, so the Gaza Health Ministry, just to show them listeners are clear, is is essentially Hamas everything's Hamas everything some awesome. What you're dealing with is a terrorist government,
but for some reason both reporters various human rights Ngos in european bureaucrats, EU bureaucrats, cancer. I'll make a separation and distinction between the two. This government and its various social welfare and health arms, but the Gaza and health ministry, is notoriously famous or infamous for inflated. Claims of israeli caused casualties against civilians for, conflicting in its reports, genuine civilians or who do get harm from time to time in in when, when others outbreaks of violence and known terrorists, who are also members of of Am I so it's really I it because I am including ordinary death statistics, meaning you know the fact that people die every day of natural causes. Israel better. Amidst I'm in the midst of any military
conflict rolling, those in saying that they were those guesswork directed cancelling unable or arcade. Yet what however they want, they would just say that if you died in Gaza, you know in the middle of a war, you died as a result of the war. So so that's the reality that about the gun, health ministry, and it's really shameful, because I like no, I saw mainstream reporters at the port in the prestige press just tweeting out these numbers uncritically without any sort of context or background of what the Gaza Health Ministry is, and so we were happy to provide a sort of corrective serve
On the contrary, podcast the second to the point that I kind of like the larger point I wanted to make is that, in response to the idea that these protests are harmless so over Israel overreacted wrecked disproportionately- and I think that this sort of the deepest philosophical urge behind that is among a certain category of NGO workers, reporters it in mainstream institutions and some especially european government officials and and transnational kind of government officials. There is a sort of discomfort with the idea of of borders. At border is just a thing: that's there will eventually we should move towards a world with with poorest borders and and and the absolute free movement of people which completely doesn't work in the Middle EAST, especially for cod
seven, Israel with which is surrounded by by hostile to coldly indifferent neighbours, but mostly hostile, and that's why I need a certain segment of utterly opinion is so uncomfortable with Israel and actions like this, where Israel is asserting that there is a border there and that that dividing line is the dividing line of sovereignty in self defense makes a certain category of left is deeply deeply uncle. But they don't like the boat right. So Israel is real, withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in two thousand and five and established a formal border with this territory that is not yet a state because it does not refer. This is even to seek a wreck In addition, as a state in some fundamental sense so the the notion of The border is somehow fake that the whole thing is a is a sham that Israel still is the occupier of Gaza.
Which it is not Israel has not set for a Jew, basically has not set foot in or on Gaza, except in the course of, military incursion in. Thirteen years was enemies, lensing and eight thousand Jews were forcibly removed from the three settlements in Gaza into those invite by their Jews, including my nephew, who put The people out of their houses. Weeping saw being as they were, sobbing ass. He had to do it so the reason this fact does not x is there's not accepted as such and is not considered when, when looking at this round the world, because when, if your outside of Israel, the most salient reality to you, about Israel, estonian situation. Is this scheme Alex Pr Game. We think there is a symbol of what Israel is doing wrong when they, when they, when they fire on P,
what's wrong, when they ve metal detectors, are a symbol of of israeli cruelty everything. But if you're in Israel, the the salient reality is national security and its you're you're, not looking at people from it. First organization, coming at your borders symbol, Ultimately it is. It is a real situation, some sort of theoretical and that these this event was designed, as you say, to be a pr propaganda effort. And ideally so there was a rush on this border position and if it had succeeded well, what would what would success look like? They would have crossed this man threshold and then sort of just dissipated into Israel and disappeared.
Into Israel, including suspected terror that arms. I. What would I have little hope like what success have looked like. I think success looks like people getting shot, but right now I think these are always grow over the course of time. You know it's it's it's it's not as if you use Israel has the option of leave. Things be in and then nothing happening right, ok, so Let's, let's move on to two point: two, ok, so point two would be the argument that Israel had to respond forcefully. Very quickly, as this border protests started for three reasons, one that it needed to nip the The possibility of some kind of weird anti is Bill uprising in an area where there are, oh, you, who said there are no Israelis to be attacked and all of that on the Gaza side of the border in order to prevent,
some kind of a you know a war from breaking out in which the Gaza's start firing rockets at now. Remember that all the Rockets over art from Gaza in twenty fourteen, almost all were destroyed by the iron dome system. But you know just because that happened doesn't mean that if they fire another thousand rocket something wooden slip through and hit the israeli centre in the middle of television or something like that, it may could still happen Israel. It is better for you to prevent the outbreak of a missile horror than to have a missile, and whereas the real missile threat is not in the southern border right. Ok, so that's point number two, which is that Israel has to respond forcefully to threats against that sovereignty, or you know some kind of upper rising threat because it has to other erode dentist
Horses surrounding right, so one is in the north right from Hezbollah, where there are, a hundred and twenty thousand rockets sitting in southern Lebanon ready to be fired at some point or other at the third is the possibility, though it seems very, very distant that a another intifada could break out on the West Bank and in our served start threatening Jerusalem. There's a fourth one too. Let me instability in Syria. You have all sorts of jihadist groups ranging from Al Qaeda. Two islamic state remnants to what have you that are uncomfortably can get uncomfortably close right to two israeli tariffs, so in other words, Israel has to respond immediately at first to say: don't screw with us don't screw with. We are we will. Any provocation will be met under
They are that any provocation is going to be met harshly and defended. Finally, this isn't here it's there it's everywhere and if they don't do it, if they allowed this to fester for four or five or six days, then they would be giving heart they would be sending the possible message to there adversaries that they are. We, I feel like that, really disproportionate early over the top of response. Any provocation has been basically israeli policy for decades now, because leather pull ebbing pull out. In Lebanon in Ninety nine may two thousand was that there was a actually respond response. Provocation. They who peroxide said: let's, let's not go to war here now. We know where we just it's not worth it. Let's, not
we're here now and they pulled out, then in two thousand and six there was another war because they pulled out. So there has been a kind of them reversal in in some sense like there was an effort to do the. Let it play out, it's a demonstration, you let it play out and then the everyone go back to their homes. In fact, it appears that the violent response- on Friday, led to a normal. We lessened amount of The test on Saturday, by the by the board, thus suggesting that, aside from the propaganda defeat of having these photographs. Having people yellin scream about how we evil.
Awful. Israel is as high as a matter of this tactical and strategic necessity. The message was sent okay, so that sets number to their number three is that term Israel fell for it that tat the whole purpose of this, was to get this footage was to get these photographs was to get everybody. Yelling was to get to throw Israel on the defensive and by responding to the potential threat of force with force. That is wrong. Who gave the Gazans what they wanted. The M fell for it Abe. You have some thoughts on You watch cuts kind of my medicine response. I initially averages the eye. Yet that Israel fell for, it is only applicable if you accept that them that their main concern. These railways main concern is this pr war? I mean, then that then than shore they fell. But what other country I mean, you know
a country's allowed to do if every time a country defends itself its falling for it, in other words its its it allowed itself to do to get bad publicity because in its in itself defence than than shore. They fell for it, but that's that's a calculation. I think that you you'd any any leader would be correct in accepting the idea that you that you prizes security and giving a strict warning to your enemies above getting some bad publicity, I'm was able and as I also think, that the price of current growth falling for easing frankly that high in the sense that look, there's a
category of nations that are opposed to Israel and there's a category of reporters and activists, types and NGO types who are opposed to Israel real and will always look to the next set of Polly would footage to use the phrase. A lot of pressure. People use of a palestinian Hollywood where they stage things Israel either responds and the response is harsh and then they have footage of of of but or in some cases Israel doesn't even do anything and they make up with their own it. You know injured, victims and martyrs, the point is that battle always always be there, and I hate Israel, but as far as the wider region is concerned, as far as GEO political reality is concerned, this is not two thousand two thousand three. This is a whole different. Era in the region, where a lot of people aren't exercise than,
or by Israel, a lot of arab states, are drawing closer and closer to Israel seizures. That's the angle that I think that we haven't discussed at which I am I buy us suggests, is behind everything that Israel's that Israel, palestinian situation has receded into the background and in the forefront in the region is the broader proxy war between IRAN and Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia, the West Bank has nationally fallen into their tacitly fallen into the saudi arabian sphere. It's been there for quite some time. Gaza has broken away. It is Hamas run government. Hamas is pretty much aligned with Turann, so these two territory's aside from having to distant governments, have two distinct benefactors in the region and then very distinct geopolitics, and that anything that happens in this conflict, particularly when comes from the uranium
on their backs. Supported side strikes me as an effort to reignite old tensions that most surely benefit turann and do not benefit and bs unbiased, and, we can be ass being Mohammed around Prince said he is pursuing stability in the region and once everything off the table. That is not the saudi effort to confront and roll back romanian influence in the region right now. The other way to look at it is through the as serves cycle oh drama, the israeli policy and psycho drama, which is that Palestinians, including Gaza Palestinians and looking at the world with the world's interest receding from and this is a fatal attract I'm not going to be ignored why you say: you're moving your embassy, you say your recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital and if we don't
something we're just being ignored. Now we're not gonna be ignored, Paul, wouldn't we see then uprisings in Bethlehem in Ramallah and nobody gets a bit. I remembered this. This specific outbreak is result of a social media campaign by EVA Gaza civil activists who had this idea that there should be a demonstration by the border and The whole point is that, if this were, if this is goes back to the earth, your point, which is if this were to be a success, then would it translate to uprisings on the West Bank? That would lead to this? The very fact that the palestinian body Politic is so exhausted and depressed by by the clear hopelessness of its own situation, meaning not that they couldn't make peace and have a state, but that they that there their own internal drama, which is that Israel should follow to the sea and that the
rolled should at least be sympathetic to them and hate. Israel is receding over time. It's not this internal narrative. Is a failure and is clearly the world is moving on from it and they they have nothing else in their civic life. But this narrative- and I want to add two due to move on to the idea that the world is moving on The american press is not at there's not throwing its arms up in mass outraged over this. In the way aid that it might have been only a few years ago, because envy Obama years. The Obama administration would feed that outrage machine in a way that would that would fall. These stories to dominate the new cycle like nobody's business, or they would panic over them like they? Would they would give them too much? Yet it would give them too
but oxygen like they really mattered like this is. If they didn't respond, if they didn't have a fit, there would be out of the world. Would somehow we know robe of Jack. Said it would be terrible and it would it would harm their other initiatives in the Middle EAST. Somehow right they don't be following threats. You know about from us about. You know if you're not sure do certain things. Move towards peace and with them will have to take that into consideration I don't know this has been that big of a failure, though, from pure perspective, it seems, like everybody, is very willing to retreat to their old corners to see things through. A paradigm that that fits probably the last decade or even two decades ago, as Europe is reacting as you would expect Europe to react to this theatrical event. As much as we can. I dont want to underline the fact that a lot of people died and, to the extent that there may have been civilians and that in the dead, its tragic, but at the same time there was an event design
to achieve a political effect and I'm not sure it hasn't achieve that which political effect of the isolation of his Europe, and only your rather than only audiences, that are paying attention. I mean I dont think that its necessarily failed. I just think that there's there's no follow on for it: there's, nothing for the Palestinians to gain from a dismal from having a resurgence of anti Israel sentiment in Europe. As Europe is not a player in this central conflict that is going on and one that you mentioned. That is the Uranium, saudi com, number. One in the number two Eight, the credible controversy engendered by Bb Netanyahu's existence in the potential corruption, charges against him, and all of that
story of Israel over the last seven or eight years is, is a creative chain in its international diplomacy, that has led it to have relate new, who or renewed relations with nations across the globe that were distant and hostile from it before and when most startlingly the fact that Israel will be pump, Bing natural gas through a pipeline to Egypt, I mean it if I had said to you at any point in the last sixty years that Israel would be selling Egypt or the whole the whole calculus that says, Israel is selling Egypt. Oil would be able it's like science fiction. You can. Even you can even imagine that such a thing could happen so That's the reality that the panel skinny in all fields of work were so oppressed, that's terrible! They may I sound
contemptuous about that. But that's not really what I mean. By that I mean the is not helping them. This is of no help to them. They remained locked and mired in a backward. Looking possible dream of the disappearance of the country It has the thirty first largest. The economy on the planet it's not going anywhere If they dont accommodate to it, they are the ones who will suffer more. That's the central point, a little more evidence for for the shift in Israel's international position that positive shift. You recently had flights for the first time they go from India to Israel with Saudi Arabia's, allowing them to in overflight.
How to use their airspace. You have you mentioned Egypt. There was also a story in the times a couple of weeks ago about the fact that Egypt is a following. These really are forced to make strikes in the Sinai to go after a terrorist, and they both consider threats. You have this, obviously the bigger rapprochement, but between Israel and the moderate arab states. Anything apparently allow by the way, is also suing the government, because in indian airline and is now allowed to access the air. It's over Saudi Arabia and transit or again into road TEL Aviv way, so the whole point is that the realities are shifting very quickly and the only reality that is not shifting as the palestinian fantasy of of Israel's destruction, which is not entirely Fantasy Riah is really is dealing with the potential of a you know of a nuclear holocaust from IRAN. But that is not your
Europe's bad opinion of Israel isn't going to impose that you know, millinery and destruction on Israel, Europe's Europe's dislike of Israel is going to engender anti semitic attacks on Jews, like the unbelievably horrifying thing we saw in Paris last week of with the eighty five year old, holocaust survivor, being tortured and killed by a must. Boy she had known since he was born at that is sort of thing that this creation,
The notion that we now Israel is a monster state leads to is: is pogrom like behaviour towards individual Jews in Europe. With that, I can't think of a proper happy transition from that to have what I need to talk about right now and that's our friends and Harry shave. So why Harry shave? Why it's a great shame at a fair price, which is why over three million guys a switch to Harry's, Jeff and Andy to ordinary guys who are fed up with getting charge nominal leg for his weight, started, Harry's to fix shaving, Harry stripped out the unnecessary features and other vibrating handled heating, blades the lubricating fifteen differently worrying scripts and the unnecessary costs deliver customers, one perfect razor than amazing price. A good shave comes down to good blades and because Harry's owns the factory, their able to deliver amazing quality blades were just to but
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informing him. Evidently that the base was disappointed with him on border issues, and then also this kind of earlier story coming. Out of Central America that doesn't is hard to kind of makes sense of given the fact that we are told that we have in other countries, being governed by the most anti immigration regime in the history of mankind in Africa, no argon are aren't you know so why so? This peculiar story is Noah, okay, so, it didn't seem hard for I've. From my perspective, to make sense of it, there is apparently nay and a group of Central America migrants transiting their way through the car on the way to the border to stage a pr event. In order to embarrass the United States government border control to believe that they ve got a Buzzfeed reply, embedded within very media, savvy
effort is: is there if their chronicling the event? All the way Fox NEWS is on it? Everybody's on top of this thing, with the design, is to create as much attention as possible until they get to the border, and then you know they will press forward with this within event designed to as disastrous as possible. I think they're really want something that looks very ugly is not like the twenty fourteen crisis in which a lot of unaccompanied minors were shuffled across the border, guatemalan migrants on trains headed north through Mexico. We owe, also that happen, we all watched the humanitarian disaster unfold and that that was a man that happen under very specific that the presence of the United States and his administration were signalling that they were going to try to perform some kind of an amnesty for the for the dreamers, the and, and this message
he's got transmitted through Central America with the notion that America was opening itself up, Rony, asleep late, and that I would have been a little to these people by that also was it wasn't. This was one of these two really dissipated consequences of policy that you would have this migration crisis into the United States and twenty fourteen Stan rumours about how liberal the illustration was on on immigration: we created a marketplace for four: it's not as if this didn't exist before, but it was the pothouse atmosphere of the Obama years on the right that I think exacerbated this issue because it created a marketplace.
On the right for utter and total rejection of empathy. Might the notion that you would be providing soccer balls and Teddy bears to these children who have had a family detention centres without any parental guidance at all, was somehow an incentive to induce more immigration, the United States that that was the that was a prevailing theory on the right at the time. I have created a marketplace for this, but I dont vaulted the trouble administration offer that this is an attempt to embarrass them, and I think it's very is really not only reckless but fraught. This has the potential to backfire seriously. Will I think, among other reasons, it could buffers, because if the ideas, The act of his left did they want to create its national debate on the very about the varies from viability and credibility of having national borders. I mean this is essentially where we're we're headed. There's a club peace in the weekly standard. Today in blocking the author who wrote it, but he equated this effort with the the Tampa which has a a car,
Bullshit that was loaded with refugees sought to land an australian soil and thus have refugee status, and this was a big controversy during Howard's prior Prime Minister ship, and they lay the pudding and on this on this island and they just kind of existed in limbo. It was a big diversity within ended up rebounding to the benefit of the Howard government, because it was seen almost universally in Australia as an attempt to jump the lines of the immigration lemon juice, the refugee system, whether we were well, we used to be relatively liberal.
Energy policy over there. So unless this feels like a very much a tab, I really would would behoove american liberals to see how how Australia treats illegal immigration. They basically outsource there. Their border control function to to these harbour for Nations Papua New Guinea, where no essential, as soon as a boat is intercepted they taken to Papua New Guinea, where it's like an open air prison and its unbelievably miserable. I mean I'm not saying this in a sort of get. I was one of those places than a outlook, and the whole point is that the rumour will spread among them would be migrant community that if you try Australia you'll end up and in such misery that that, then you can't even get off up in a guinea that you need better and better off, not trying. But I agree we agree with able. What's the fundamental point thing, it's one I've made on Pakistan a number of time
this is the left to the American left prepared to move to her, to the point of view that borders don't mean anything as any border enforcement is, is just by definition right and moral wrong, and we will go from continents Condon right, because the Europeans protecting their borders as it is evil. Obviously it is Israel has you know that their there their order? Defenses is illegitimate and now I get a now becomes back home, I would say, however, that it isn't just the left that has this view is also a view shared by to a lesser extent like the Wall Street Journal editorial Bore with these people as an extension of capital and capital, should be borderless and flow over borders, as you would again waged wages, and and something that's a more but hardly around awaited the now, but it's also not. I think I think it would be fair to say that there are two to four things going on here, one of which is that you know a lot.
RO immigration. A supporter of liberal immigration policies does not believe that millions of people should pour over it out of the border at fenced areas you know from Texas Arizona than to California, like that's, not a should still be orderly. It should still be led up. It should still be legal, and I don't know you know that even though we know even a total immigration dove like me, doesn't think that you should be encouraging illegal immigration so that's number. One number two is the the the people without borders here Pueblo says facilities from frontier- I it says Pueblo seem frontiers which I don't.
Is frontiers, f or anti viruses, not as on farm. As far as I am aware spent, I really guarantee harass, ok anyway, so let us for so this group, which has tried to evoke the name of of of of doktor So that is more than us, which was a weed out, which is of a great really example of a good end GEO that you now really help people in war torn Africa, mostly So what is it that they are attempting to accomplish? They want to bring a thousand people to the border with the United States, use them as a kind of Vienna pr fodder, and what do they think is going to happen? Do they think that it will look bad? for the United States would look bad for the Trump administration and for we know, concerns in the United States if they are stopped from entering the United States and which is what will happen and then forced to go back. Even I mean the moat.
I'm sure that half of the Democratic Party, eighty percent of the public, a party half of the Democratic Party and most independence, would look at that and say: yeah of course, like they're. Not they got, they don't have. Visa depends on, they got. Nothing depends on the up the Welsh and what are the optics gonna, be I mean that's the whole point of having this, this press campaign and well timed. I have this cameras on right, but I'm just saying that when Trump says you either have border, you dont, have a border. It's one of the few things that he Then he says in this regard, I think when he says you know that they're bringing in crime and murder and awful in their terrible in their horrible, that's awful, but when he no country has borders is allowed to regulate the inflow of peoples into the country that is so comments that is beyond commonsensical, that when Democrats and liberals seem to argue the opposite, they seem crazy, like that's, not a rational, the rational counter argument. Is it no? No? No. What we should have is anyway
who says that you know there should be border restrictions is of. Is a racist me MR, is insane or getting very close to that in other crises, and that is at the heart of the the current formulation of the liberal world view, which is that that, nations. Dont really mean anything in fact: liberally Such has increasingly I think it was always like this I'd, I'm not one of the people who says that this was in built into the liberal idea going back to that narrow, John Locke and Human. What have you, but nevertheless, the current formulations no room for kind of mediating bodies between the individual and all of humanity, whether that's you should always jealous I would they It's the end of world war, two some of it a little to the end of world war, one which is where the notion that that that the threat to world peace was the IMF.
Horsemen of these in a false barriers or the idea that you shoot you were allowed to go and take over somebody else's country or something like that. But you know it was a totally respectable liberal opinion at the end of world war. Two to be a one older. You know ye be white. The essayist, it was a was a belief. Vernon, when one world government even Dwight, the Eisenhower was a bit. Promoter of the idea that salvation for Europe would come from the creation of what he called the United States of Europe, because it was, it was the existence of borders between France and Germany that had caused these you know sixteen or seventeen wars in seventeen. Eighty nine that ultimately led to World WAR two. So this was not a. This was not an unkind then small, weird, is the opinion where I think it gets weird is in this whence when President Sates asserts even a minimum degree of sovereignty of the idea of sovereignty, that there is a boy
appeared says there is no sovereignty, the as it has done should have no truck with you or anybody who or maybe it's a negative thing like you're not allowed to say there should be a border you're? You don't have to say what you believe: you're, not you're, not I have to say there, should be no borders or we're all one world or something like that. But you can attack anybody who asserts opposite for being neanderthal in a monster. But you know there is some thinking about sorrows, point about the idea that there should be nothing between the individual and humanity at large. Do the one strict violation of that that is very welcome on the left, has to do with minority identity now that that's those are a sort of almost little many nationalism that trump everything there is thereby take the camp back. There
stating for sites that an institution in the way that the state or the rapidly or the churches- it's a sort of rain- I guess yeah, but but but if they did not concrete. When I write I do think, though, an important assets, everybody that the let's say, the democratic candidate who lead with this position. But it was nevertheless their position that you need borders. Any border enforcement use the rational immigration policy and when somebody tries to cross the border and in a big event like this and they're interdicted by border patrol and a creates a bunch of really sad images of people being hauled off and trucks and putting deportation centers. Do you think that candidate would do well.
I think any argument on the democratic side nationally that asserted the contrary would be in trouble nationally, if not locally. In other words, like in New York state. If you want to be a bit, you now say that any immigration restriction is evil, big deal, Zaka Matter, Liberal stated the that's where we are, but it out there twenty or twenty five states in this country. Where would matter grateful right, and I am talking about a democratic primary, but let's talk about- let's take of pathogens,
well. Actually, we just had a general, I'm not even sure, to democratic primary. This is the interesting thing. Is immigration now for the for the Democrats? Would abortion is for the Republicans that you have to pay fealty to to a radical programme of? I would not, I think, when might enter the governor they'll Murphy of New Jersey who succeeded Chris Cresty ran for governor. His immigration policy was to confront Jeff sessions on as many fronts as humanly possible, and that meant creating sanctuary cities outright. You ran on this creating sanctuary city policies ensuring that the federal government had no access to certain areas. No access to certain detention facilities that it would be an open borderless that was what he ran on very explicitly and it wasn't about immigration policy. It was about Jeff sessions right. So ok, but those are those are specific.
There was a subsume specific election in response to a specific circumstance with Trump as president. You know well, relatively freshness President Sates, twenty twenty ok you're in Europe. We are that is the Democratic Party going to insist that its candidate for president take a radically. I don't know what you would call order list borderless position or not. I don't know. The answer that it strikes me that that would be nuts. I think there were the impulses to do whatever the opposite of down from Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton claimed twenty fifty in TWAIN. Sixteen one of the claims was that he was incredibly aggressive on on illegal immigration, and that the number that, though the numbers of peace, I will return to. Mexico from the United States numbered and the hundreds of thousands and twenty fourteen twenty fifteen. In that it wasn't a controversial issue within democratic Party that was boilerplate democratic party
but we all use animals were softened immigration, Barack Obama, deported all these people. What are you talking about at peak of the aid of illegal immigration to thousands of rights? I mean, I think it all depends on who gets the reins of the party of the Democratic Party. We did it, we will we don't we never could have imagined. I think that does someone like Sanders could have had the support as radical as he was twenty. Sixteen out of you know if there's just Sanders wing any more per se, but there's a does so many disgruntled elements that are you knows from emerging from this Sanders type wing was worn and anti Hilary establishment who, where it could go in up in India, especially as exacerbated by in a move more years of Anti Trump sentiment. We could end up with no human being is illegal, which is innocent.
It's true. I accept that, but human being can be somewhere without Arthur I status, which isn't quite the same thing and it's ok to enforce their, but I I am of the view that I guess my prediction is that the left is the Democrats nationally speaking, are gonna. Go hard line on this because they're gonna be responsive to the base that says no human being is illegal. Remember. But there is a lot appalling in our serious candidates are doing Jared, pull it out wherever that Guy Tom's tire. Those rich Democrats who are thinking of staging their own bids live doing an enormous amount appalling in the polls. He is not go. I believe the appalling will not tell them that that is a smart move, like you have to get
through the primary I get to the general, obviously, but you but it just doesn't. It doesn't make sense that you have this very small group of people in the United States who, who are excessively consumed with this issue, who are way smaller than this than other single interests, including say the pro choice wing of the party. Just like that, with the pro life wing of the issue of the Republican Party numbered in the do. You know you actually serve a more ties that was like sixty seventy percent of the parties, something like that, but I can't be that being a radical pro immigration person of that view is held by seventy five percent of them. Are you ok? you like prompts bad he's a racist. All of that, but let me we should all agree
Susan event are not entirely sure we would be where we are today in the republican Party. In the absence of the twenty fifteen attack on Paris, which occurred in late November of twenty fifteen, just couple of months and have followed on by a series of raids in belgian and some scares and Germany all contributed to read rises, entering a merry and our land at the perfect moment in time, these heavy the republican primary progress So that's true. So it's situation with other things. Weird and you know reflect that reflect the sediments of the moment. But I'd be there just a common sense. I just keep going back to the to the of trumps immigration policy and, as I keep saying I am as dervish on immigration as you can get in some sense outside of the Serbs, description of he liberal cons,
this, but that its commonsensical to say that you know we have to spend. You know when our online Kennedy Airport, going through customs and immigration, that people Ito as citizens that people's can't just run across the border and become an and live your forever that's just not the way. That is not the way any country could possibly work, but there is one place on earth where it would be acceptable. To have a border that kept everybody out, and that would be the and stayed on the West Bank, which would I believe under the current conception, be union Rhine nodes who should live in Palestine. It's ok for backpack, Elsie Arabs to live in Israel if they choose, but but no juice live in Palestine, as that would be corrupted that that goes saves point that you know, but
in most circumstances, mean hissing institutions where this church border whatever, but when it comes to oppress identities, then than they can do whatever So we come to an end. Now there was enough crushing we're Osity Mauro senator there was talk of any there wasn't more or less doing, fine was really have the transition to Harry shave answer I was bad. It was bad. It was that I mean where we're we're we're faking good cheer because, of course were sitting in the studio with one of the most dangerous on earth and an unjust we're just trying to keep him com, and agree with everything he says that if you see him one knows you're. Sometimes I really am totally complicit Tell it cause, I'm out gunned. You know I mean if I, If I had the wherewithal, I could maybe do something about this threat one day in the distant future your staring into a camera soft lit as
explain your complicity. I will. I will probably be enjoying my purchases dictator make no a great again. That's all! I could say so for joy. The per a reward nor Rossman absorb Amorium. John ports keep the camel burning
Transcript generated on 2019-12-12.