Eli Lake joins the podcast to talk about his blockbuster COMMENTARY essay "Guilty and Framed." Also, we ask: Why are talking-head doctors and public health officials telling everybody we'll all have to keep living this way even after we get the vaccine? Are they crazy? Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
welcome. The commentary magazine Daily podcast today is Wednesday December. Sixteen twenty twenty I'm John Boards, the editor of commentary. To me, as always associate editor nor Rossman Heine, our senior Christine rose high, Christine John Executive editor, a Ringwald high Abe agenda and joy. Phoenix. Today, the author of commentaries January twenty twenty one block buster cover article framed and guilty. Bloomberg on Eli lay Kai Eli forever me John High
So you like this is, I think, is this: the fourth, the third or fourth piece you ve done for Terry on the Russia scandal, is that it's the third magazine, peace and the fourth overall right so since the last word on Trump in Russia. That is the subtitle peace, and we are going to get to it in a minute, but first let's talk about how the wonders of the coming vaccine, r B in the past, upon by gears in the public health community who want you to know that even after you get the vaccine going to have to wear a mask socially distance, not see or relatives and live in a habit house under the shire for at least fifty years
as I understand it, this was the this is the message of Doktor Vince Gupta of Yale? who was on MSNBC informing us that, since we can be sure that, even if, after you get the vaccine, you might be contagious or you might not have sufficient antibodies or you might there. So you might, though you might the other thing. You'll still have to caen. Then you to live as we ve been living until three hundred and eighty five billion people around the planet are given the vaccine. Otherwise it's not gonna work. So let me just say that this is a year of dumb counter productive, stupid and At the discrediting and deal legitimize spins being offered by the public health community, this ranks among the dumbest since Nada, Don't have to wear masks, don't wear a mask. You'd have to wear a mask. That's that's a panic! Delaware,
ask that was for you. I was lying for Europe. Is the platonic ideal of the noble lie, and so is this precisely now? It is here because this is what he said: Doktor been goobers on with checked out an embassy said yeah, you know some people who plan on getting the to boost shot right so after the second booster done, and is that even after the second boosting those people are getting just immediately gonna jump on a plane, I'm sorry that is not how it's gonna work for. You quote just because you get back say that after the second dose does not mean you should be travelling or that your liberated from masks. So in other words young, we don't know he doesn't know. There has been enough research to suggest whether or not you can still contract the disease, and even though you don't get sick, you might transmit it, and I know in that sense I know just as much as Doktor Van Gupta doubts about this. About what happens if you get the second do so, I am saying your liberal
your for both of us have the precise same amount of information and expertise to deliver. At this point, and so I am therefore saying he had no idea what you're talking about any camper we're off by the way I just want to say it's not just been good. This is the messaging in a law. of places about the vaccine. You you'll see it all over the place. It's this is concerned, effort to keep people from feeling liberated after the vaccine Well, there's also there's a political reason for that too. If you're, looking, if you're watching as some of us, are the ongoing debate among the teachers, unions in school, administrators and and parents about, went to reopen schools and protecting places, like you know, Chicago allay here in DC you'll see, There's this new strain of argument being made by the teachers shooting that's like you know, even with vaccination. First of all, we are not sure it safe and second of all that doesn't mean it's gonna be safe, because maybe these elementary school children will be gone far down on the list, for vaccination won't be back stay. So even if we are,
could still be in danger, and so it's it's also a way of framing some of these political power plays that are being used by teachers, unions in particular, to prevent the reopening of the person learning. So there there it's it's one of those wonderful arguments that has so many useful applications for people who are in the midst of political power, this is a harsh verdict to render, but I never nevertheless going to render it down these teachers is public servants, these public health experts they like it they'll this. This is good for them and it may not. then, for you but they have no problems with the status quo. Yeah, it's uncomfortable yeah, it's a burden, yeah it's harmful, but there have been professional benefits that they've accrued and, as a result there perpetuating the conditions that have contributed to your suffering of the last one to last year. I am more I'm willing to entertain the that is true of a great many of them, but I think that something else is going on a friend of mine
and my family's Raquel came up with this term. If you, if you were, if you're, a Jew and I'd like up for a practising, do she said? You know. Well, you know where we were seeing so and so are we were gonna, see so and so bottom he's Glock covered, meaning a lot kosher is a is a quality of keeping kosher up that refers to following the rules with the utmost strictness, and there are gradations of performance in practice in all faiths, right, an emperor, but you know when you in Judaism, because the rule are enumerated not only in the Torah but also in the or along the Talmud. You could literally said. Your entire life, doing
the thing you can minute by minute to conform with the prescribed rules of behaviour. laid out by the face and for greatly These rules are the liberation, even though they are constraining like ultra orthodox practice is a form of life organization that is costing. That is purposeful It's? U meaning and all of that, and there is a whole world of the glass covered and the glad covered say, don't see any buddy don't go outside, don't get on a plane, don't go into a store. Do you know an end and in the world of the glass Ovid. Anyone who doesn't follow every rule meticulously into the latter is a little bit trace is little bit is, is breaking the law. A little.
to a lot of a bit and is deserving of a certain kind of disapproval. It's the disapproval, of the person who is unwilling to follow the logic of the life that they have chosen to live to its its utmost and in the world of public health, the orthodoxy has become. We need to do whatever we can to protect public health workers, because they are the ones who are on the line and who are the most endanger. So that's why we had to lock down, in the first place, to keep this system from being overwhelmed and not to get public health worker sick, and then it became an orthodoxy on its own, which is that you can't do anything to get anybody else? Sick anything that you do as the vibrations of consequences outside it. A person in your own body and so Doktor Vince Gupta is Glock covered.
but this is where the robber meets the road, because that cannot be the standard for a free society that you are you are creating a shame structure under which anybody what's to get on a plane is evil. That's insane First of all, there been like two or three transmission case. on the planet earth where the virus we can trace it back to people getting it on a plane and then the first place that he went you're not get not blame once you get the vaccine you're, going the vaccine the hell but you're, not gonna, get on a plane. You might have to get on the plane without the vaccine. Has anybody here flown over the course of the pandemic that I have no? But my kids have guess I took across country flight and it's just like normal really is, did the plane was to capacity the airport was relatively pact. Beware,
asks and their distancing and you can't sit next to each other. They blocked off the seed suddenly said either you are in your airport, but the experience with status command, but the exceptional mask wearing where it, but you know I can you understand the notion that people are. You know under certain sir, France is people are going to have to wear masks? You know if they go to a movie theater, so if they go to a space where they're going to be inside for a long time in part to make other people feel comfortable right, you're gonna inconvenience to make other people feel comfortable unless everyone get some kind of a tattoo that says I've been vaccinated. uproariously hilarious movie. Sweden, laughingly harangues right but for tragedies, are drama out you're. Something boring yeah like what we don't worry wanna go see ten, it don't worry all your yawning yawning as bad as railway. Those crying crying
you're, just generator expectorated you're, just gonna cost them. But of course we also have this. Will you can't expect every one people can't? This is one of those things here like oh, your legs, gonna, be a world of haves and have nots, the vaccinated and the Un Vaccinated, but that's of course, one way out, but if the here s until the end of twenty twenty one and found she has said this not just have been got a bunch of other people said we're gonna have the live incredibly cautiously until the the calendar year, twenty twenty one. Well, you know what the hell with it. This is where you can start saying the hell with you, because getting a vaccine Is it self acting cautiously, you know getting vaccinated is not it. Oh yeah, I mean that we should talk about like it's nothing, but I'm in the point is then green to go. Do you have to do it twice all of this and then nothing changes? This is what I'm sorry I'm a monopolizing here, but then we were talking about this yesterday.
press leans on catastrophism leans, towards catastrophism to the exclusion of likelier scenarios. Isn't the likelier scenario but this vaccine behaves like every other vaccine. Why don't you get him? Am? Are all the you gotta? Be a worry. You gotta be worried, you're still transmitting rubella, this this exact line of thinking, Then they didn't the never ending virus started it with you. also popularized by g that, and this is months and months back that- even if get the virus, and then you get better there is no reason to think that you will have long term immunity to the virus. After that there were this, based on anything that will some people say while others are. There said anecdotal case in Korea where someone got re infected, but this is the was has nothing to do with studies or anything, and there was there, is a face off between family and run and ran Paul about this during ascended hearing
and there's all this that social media Fouche he owns, ran Paul and ran Paul was right, ran Paul made the case that you are. You are saying that this fires without evidence. You are saying that you are concerned. These fires will act like, unlike every other virus in the in this circumstance in ITALY, there is a more pernicious effect here, which is that when someone like doktor goop Us- as these sorts of things here roads the trust and confidence that we want the population have in public health authorities. So we really have an anti backs or movement. We already have trust in institutions at an all time. Low and trumped certainly feeds all that, but I would say that the people who are sort of the catastrophes. Yours are also feeding in no way by saying these things that are is extreme scenarios that I think an average relative, intelligent person would say that sounds ridiculous. To me, the hell with them and
and we are we find ourselves, I think that's a very important point. We find ourselves in the position Eli that we don't have any trust. That the leader of this society are queuing to the same rules, there insisting on everybody else that right, that's what makes it worse. That ragout was that that was the Thanksgiving shocker right, the mayor of Denver Andrew COM, Oh Gavin, Newsome Sheila Cool going out to eat just before she is making it impossible for any restaurant to be open the melee like over and over and over again them People go getting off said that that guy was it the mayor of Austin making a you can't leave your house video. While he was in Kabul, celebrate his daughters wedding, I'm gonna be theirs.
It also there the idea of science as being something that we should be able to play. Some faith in the work of scientists do, and we have a movie- is nearly Murat, miraculous that we ve gotten several different facts. is up and running that seem effective, that we're gonna be able to distribute it. That's amazing, we should be celebrating not, and we should be encouraging people to see. This is evidence of how our scientific and and are indeed, country and in other parts of the world. This is amazing, but instead you have- and I think this is going to be a particular problem for the Bite administration which ran on where the Party of sites where the Party of Science, what the Party of Science is using science as a cudgel. In order to pursue its own social agenda, people will, I think, appropriately, stop trusting every time they open amounts about. Science and public health is not science, health, see all as make the public health, the leading public health official in Allay
whose name is Ferrar or for rare, has a phd in communications from PO dunk. You. So we can collar doktor doctor by the way porting to the according to the Jill rule. But you know what She has done in her. Life is game herself into the pot health bureaucracy and try to effect social justice protocols using the doctrine of Public Health, that why it was second nature to the public health establishment to say it was ok to go out protests. Even though yours was this in inside for four covered, because the idea that public health involves the expression of outrage at police brutality Ie is public health according to them, just as staying inside for a virus is public health. Also, this is a compromise field. It is not what it appears to be ended.
should be behaving with extreme caution and the communications of How people are supposed to behave in this period need to needs to have a certain element of cost, about them and not telling people that they're gonna be unlocked down for another three hundred and sixty days. That will people say well that I'm not gonna get the vaccine or, conversely, I can't follow any of these rules, so I'm going to follow. None of them is noted, on the part of these people, who presume to speak for a capital tee. The catalyst science. These are the same, people who were saying in a way could be a medical miracle and we should not expect the delivery of a vaccine before the end of calendar year. Twenty twenty and it's here, and none of the we visited. The lack of faith they demonstrated in capacity of public private partnerships and human ingenuity and every engine pulling in the same direction to yield this. This mirror
and rather than event some humility, their right of going and saying what were masking in social distancing until twenty twenty two and that surely not gonna, be the case. I can tell you right now: it's not gonna be the case now because as unnecessary, but because it's not going to happen won't happen in a recent one point of of demonstrating dispensation. There's one difference, though, is that we're seeing like another thing that it is not enough. but like, for example, the NBA starting their season this month not doing it in a bubble, and there are certain kinds of elements of the society that are kind of if they're gonna be reopening at this point. So that's another. connect with, I think, further discredit, some of the alarm ism from the experts and contributes to the sort of erosion of trust it has been a long time coming, but has certainly been intensified in the trunk presidency and the current crisis yet will again
it's like also, it's ok for basketball to reopen, but I think that it is not my restaurant to reopen like what they get their thereby multi billion air pituitary cases that I'm a guy from power. Stan who you know like spent twelve years washing dishes to make enough money to open a foods, and order you now to open a diner and now you're you're, literally going to crush my entire dreams and hopes of my entire life. While some you know some, you know some guy Like I said you, like, God gave him seven feet is gonna, be able to park lay his business while he makes thirty million dollars a year. Where are our? This, of course, is the their story of the of the pandemic, which is that thought work earth, people use their brains, people who don't use their hands were able
very easily to transition into upward deuce set of circumstances while working from home, because in the last thirty years and progress in the internet and broadband and all of that and everybody in America who works with his hands, is in a crisis and enduring long term crisis. That also like that thousand eight melt down. It's gonna, take them here's to recover from one Everything does get back to normal, because they're gonna have been buried in a hole for a year and a half we here by the way, just now that they are on the verge in Washington, of passing the second stimulus which is very good news but of course raises other thing, which is somehow the world the people who needed desperately he hated the second step. because of the ongoing nature of this crisis. Didn't have the political for didn't
the political, I don't know what you call it like a fact to force. The parties a table and make this deal because they were I'm, gonna be ruined. If they didn't do it, and you know why, because they work us, because we don't need it. We in the media dont need it. If you're employ the media you're doing. Ok, it's it's! It's it's a nightmare and and Doktor Van Gupta can. We know says for twelve years to walk around in a mask all day in a hospital. That's part of the joke here is that medical professionals. You know who look around. You know in hospitals and such like that have spent. I'm getting used to where you know getting used to masking. That is not for the rest of us think they won't be policed either. They know that up to the extent that these right restrictions are pleased that the targets are gonna, be the people who pay
Services can now they just kind of common, their shadows who pass through their lips than they have no impact. On their there. They know them academically. They know them ass, sort of a condition, see a demographic of which they are aware. But they know that I'm not going to encounter the restrictions on their lives that their imposing on others. I mean you know we are good, a point that you made in other contexts now, which is really a very important one. The the same now with the Democrats and binding about how the pressed wasn't really their friend by not covering them critically or normally, AMOS through with alarming problem in ITALY, I've been very little sort of mainstream elite press push back on the staff. In fact, it mainly Ray forced it, and that is a failure of those journalistic institutions to just raise basic then the people who have James max- you know it great pieces and others. It hasn't really kind of filtered into the centre of the new stream, which is what all of these
decisions are gonna, be very responsive to so there has been a kind of rate down there, because I think you know the press should play a role in wait. A second the sounds ridiculous, inconsistent Why would you do this? Why we do not do that, and it really was mainly because, like commentary, conservatives, but it wasn't you don't you see a real mainstream media, push back on that and that's a huge failure, journalism, a similar to the kind of failure to really bad binding in the campaign right and we were gonna- get to that in your place, But first I want to talk to you guys about our sponsor today, the bonds and group you ve been hearing about this, couple weeks now. The bonds and group stands against the field, that is in of professional financial investment advice, because the field, awful most financial advisors, are lazy, disengaged them uninterested in the real work required of properly stewing their clients assets. They don't work very hard. A lot of them worked, they five hours a week and when you wanted,
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that's funny. There is something there and get you know the story of how the post came in possession of these emails. Still, you know, I don't it is true that doesn't, I may resent say we should say it's on the post came in possession of the aim. It is how it is How the emails surfaced and write a laptop came. This Laptop that somehow supposedly was dropped. They these three laptops dropped at a Wilmington Delaware, computer repair shop. How that came to be the posts creation of the materials the postage judged to be accurate, but it's more. The provenance of thee. emails themselves and the laptop and that story that does not that seems extraordinarily fishy right, so Put you in this strange position, whereas it's like what listen. The act-
information, is correct and, I think worthy of government. I should say I do Think that social me, I think a social media companies were terrible as his passionate and and and publication is set for trying to censor the publication. I was completely on your side and that they should not have their account suspended, and now we know that there is an invite, a: U S, attorney investigation into Hunter binding and these dealings and all of that, but none the less. It's it's So true that you know it, it seems to me that there was some sort of foul play. There is a fair argument that people were asserting in the run up to the election entire thing. What russian disinformation, and there was no evidence of that. Even when you know the director dashing televisions was was making clear. There wasn't evidence that this was rushing to information and that's a fair point that I think elements of the left and then certainly element
the right of me. That's not the point. My point is that the sort of story of you know how these laptop surfaced looks like theirs. else. It's going on there and we later learned from Ben Smith's very good column before the election that you know them. A concerted effort to have dropped his late at an end You know, provide confirmation and and get other more mainstream public. I guess I learnt nothing ass near ass. They were my com from time to time to debate on which a sort of, but the typical opposition research, typically how it works. So I wanted to certain present You say that it possible for there to be some sort of wrong doing in the case of providing, which is a clear case of kind of influence, peddling and at the same time, you don't be. The victim of a sort of foul play as well and how the story surface was not entirely bury him and even now and word leaking.
Of an ongoing investigation by U S attorney typically, is not agree thing it usually prejudice. Does the investigation is unfair? What have they turn up? Nothing he also That is an example of that. It's it's a bit of always for more money in the euro from it seems like an We sort of major news development, particularly on from Russia. You have to take side and either one side is totally guilty and on the other side, certainly innocent or vice versa. So what I tried to do in this piece is trying to say: everybody became poor. Everybody has some degree of guilt. If you really want to understand what happened and from Russia, you have to accept that there are really no angels and pure picnics here right so guilty and framed Hunter Biden appears to be guilty. Some version of influence peddling and the way that the story was
delivered seems to constitute a kind of framing investments that something untoward probably went on here, and we just don't know what so the trump. And now does, that you are providing, is that from the very beginning of this investigation, people we're being framed and Trump was being framed, but that also Trumps behaviour towards Russia marks him as guilty. If not in legal sense, then well say in a moral leadership worm or guilty of Either a misunderstanding misapprehension or a misrepresentation of the kind of threat that Russia poses to the United States will specifically, I would characterized from scale disbarred, why he lied and lied and lied about not having any business in Russia when his personal attorney was pursued
from power in Moscow during the campaign, and that does present a potential for conversion by Russia, because they know something that president or the problem many of the time was saying it was not my treatment and they could threats have rendered spoke out. Why now you could argue from Beijing does he lies all the time it wouldn't. It doesn't have the same effect as a what an enormous politician. I am open to all of that. One area where I think you have to criticise him. Another area where which involves as one time campaign manager problematic, for he was in debt to a date. Russian oligarchy in electoral Pasqua and his deputy at the time were gates was bundling internal campaign information to someone in constant, including who get out it appears to have been a russian spy. It should be said
The persons in clinic has had contacts with all kinds of Americans, including the: U S, embassy in Ukraine and included International Public Institute, which is very much associated with it. John Mccain- and if indeed he has been an intelligence, intelligence officer for all these years than the bigger scale, My view is that the FBI was unable to sort of sea all this. That right, I was right in front of their nose. Speak use. You got several times. He got visas to travel to the United States. So if he wasn't in a russian spy ass, the Sun Intelligence Committee says he was Then there was what is the Abbe I've been doing in terms of counter intelligence hottest years against Russia that's it. That's another area where I would soon sailors got. Certainly this is that later, but trumps ability as the President of the United States to go after.
People who were in his government who were either whistleblowers or he perceived to be kind of plotting against him. Calling individuals out people like Alexander, binding or Fiona Hill during the Ukraine, its main inquiry and everything is as terrible behaviour for president and, I think, really did cause real problem for the targets of his iron, because he has so many devoted social media bands, and I think, also the fact. The trump repeatedly asked the President of the United its denied Russia's role in its active measures and political, Welfare against the United States advanced Russia's interests because the big part of that,
strategy of his own government. According to age limit mansard, his second national security adviser was to expose what the Russians had hoped to accomplish in the shadows. That is, if that's very important, in terms of countering what Russia Tens do, which is thank you a lot of terrible things that they then deny that they did and the object is to sort of soap in future populations and make sure that they are not to blame for this kind of thing. So it is in America is interesting. through the Russians are blamed for this kind of thing and trunk time and again would just say I don't see the evidence. The Russians doing, even as his own government is unjust, harbouring dating the actual cheer you officers were responsible for hacking, democratic emails and suchlike. Ok, so that's the that's the guilty party. Yet, let's get to the framed part, because the frames heart is
part every, but you know everybody outside of trumps fans can sort of agree on the set of facts that you laid out there. He said stuff in Helsinki that he shouldn't have said he mistreated his own staffers were just trying to follow american policy as they understood it. You know and and and said nice things about Putin when a presidential say nice things about So everyone agrees on that from you know, era small well to John Bolton. What what is the framed part that so many people refuse to acknowledge? Ok! Well, let's start with the FBI. And in letter commentary essays I've gone into more of the stuff, but the FBI accumulated. A lot of evidence on the initial people that they investigated for possibly colluding
Russia when they were on the trunk and paint. I'm thinking of Michael Flynn, Ardor Age, George, profitable ass, the key made a lot of evidence through their awesome investigative powers, sending you know sending informants. You noted that any without that showed there really was no collusion with these it was, and yet a cap these investigations open and ultimately announced there was this investigation when everything that they were turning up put together. Their theory of this case was wrong, said the decisions to keep the investigation open, particularly in the case of Michael Plan, was definitely, in my view, abusive area of abuses that, in order to get a surveillance warrant on Carter, page, was unpaid advice for the campaign and kind of weird rush nest they submitted
as you know, one verified opposition research to the to the super surveillance or to get the worn and continue to renew that when they had locked information to suggest that this opposition research, known as the steel dossier, was a bunch of buck. Finally, you have James Poem, himself. It was the director of the F b I was telling the president that he was not as a subject. Her it wasn't a target. The investigation, why was rushing to everybody else that indeed he would be in the the team that was investigating it. We know this from the memoir above one of about the is no longer with the bureau a Peter struck. They I knew that eventually, the president would be a target investigation, so here's comin Servicing Larry waste a few bad apples, while his happy we're doing everything they got to keep this investigation open in I hope that it will eventually ensnare the president, so all that
I think you know, really was despicable abuse of power from the FBI leadership and they deserve a lot of blame. The other big part that hasn't gotten as much is the mother team itself? There is a lot of stuff now from someone again, why school lunch time to argue justice attorney, is written in his own. No more of all this and he sounds pretty clearly that the smaller probe was meant as a check on the president's power. The motor probe was supposed to be good to determine whether the trunk campaign conspired with Russia in the russian efforts to interfere in the election and he ignored, you know we were trying to. This was a check on the president's power, and I think that in this respect, what they did was day in tiny started, enforcing the foreign agents for this
which sounds really bad. I get into this in this peace in such a way that they threatened. You know mass of criminal prosecution, samples and people jobs. for many years unless they cooperate in the problem is until twenty seventeen, the foreign agents Registration ACT, was never invest. It was never
reinforced the worst that what happened as it might have to pay a fine. But usually you just have to register with more accurate information, and you dont, Michael Flynn is gonna. We ve talked about that before. He was really very much caught up with it with the threat of this fairer enforcement that got him to eventually acknowledge that. You know to say that he here he misled the FBI, something that is since revoked, but it's also the tools they used to basically try to get metaphor to cooperate. Who was the former campaign adviser his deputy brigades and many others? And you know it's in one context you could say: well, they got out opponent activating instead of murder. On the other hand, the trumpet one you know a present
election and to treat the present even states only a few months into his term as the head of a mob mafia, family or that may make sense to you know the young people in an Amazon disagree room, but I don't think that's a very good precedent, for you know respecting the integrity of our elections and transfer of presidential power. But that is what happened, and so so people like Weissmann, only they pretty much cock. They were treating this investigation like them a rolling up a mafia family, and I think that's entirely. appropriate when you're talking about something is particularly since the F B. I have learned have information that there really wasn't any collusion by the time the mother probably been starts, let alone, as it goes into tapes, to hear you know investigation. Now, it's interesting. As you mentioned this, these fair prosecutions
Michael Flynn basically were revoking his guilty play on the basis of them or on the basis of making false statements and this effort to get Paul man of Fort too. Cooperate by using fairer, but of course, they got both of them Flynn, if, worse now being pardoned and having been unjustly gasket in the first place got them on different things anyway, that's the interesting part which is they got the man they got manifested on money laundering. That's why he's gonna magic, honest our they have far right. There it basically the ferret, the fairest stuff was unnecessary and criminalize is something that but establishing an interesting precedent, I'm your making your criminalizing activity that has been normal activity in Washington for fifty years. You are you You are suddenly treating it as though, even though we all three
it serves sleazy that people right, you know, go often before and agents and do things that aren't entirely cricket produce. They ve been former government officials. Nonetheless, if it was never criminal before but was largely civil seen as a kind of violation of a regulation. That is the effort to use criminal law as a weapon with jets is itself a very dangerous precedent, because that there's no limiting principle, the Justice Department, which has unlimited powers, a prosecution cause, there's no cost to it. Right right needs putting principles that has to be its. Its ability to play toy around with the law needs to be limited, and just because people don't like Trump doesn't mean that you're not establishing new methods of behaviour that need to be strictly challenged and watched like this before
here that you got into in previous pieces, the misuse of the and intelligence the supervisory you know them. The Pfizer court that allowed this allowed these illegitimate investigations of Carter, page and George Papadopoulos that we now we're based circular they were based on their own face, Applications visor was finding that There was reason to continue to allow them to survey will based on that, act that they were being sir veiled before, based on this did they were being sir veiled before well, there would be no surveillance word on. on your page. Had it not been for opposition research that was gathered at the behest of the damage the party, and it turns out that opposition research and there's another be part of this. I say it contained of these
impotent components that were probably russian disinformation and lots of people. for russian experts were not like you know, Republic, in the conservative senators, but people within this came out in some of this was the department Justices Inspector General Report, and some of this has been in subsequent decline. obligations, but there were lots of people within the FBI and intelligence community were like this looks like it could be russian disinformation and leave I'm only unravelled how this dossier was produced. It was a former Brookings institution kind of researcher who you know it is: is a russian speaker in boarding Russia who kind of women to spring budget. On behalf of this former british spy and asked a bunch of his friends, have you heard about Poland?
we heard about Donald Trump. We heard about these people and if I did talk to him- and he says he thinks is- information was accurate, but nobody else thinks it's accurate at this point, and it seems to me that if you remember when we would first told about steel dossier. There was a huge, like media narrative that this guy was a terrific, I and II has unbelievable sources in the Kremlin and you could only get if you were like this super spy and that's why we had to take this so seriously and their work for profiles of Christopher still wants a sneaking out about What an amazing guy you wasn't help unfair was was getting off. His attention now was unfair, the trunk of attacking him, the boy we know we gotta, take us really seriously and the people who pay through the commission, came the founders of his fusion gps from both a hope of peace
we defending their work and saying what a wonderful guy he was and what did we finally determined this document was produced and its its bulk is. Of course, there was good, this information and he ought to sort out source that he didn't kill, outlaws lifted. His labors right, yeah, it's every second economy class way ticket like even be meeting with old friends. Have you heard about this? I think I may have heard this. Let me check. I talked to the guy a hotel who said yes to a lot of prostitutes under this Adele, and this is what were trafficked yeah. Ok, let me let me behold back for a second and talk to about our second sponsor. Today. Tommy John cause we're think your holiday gifts, he got a lot of trouble and were coming close to the holiday here. I saw this area, the smack tab in the middle of our holiday, and since we have all been living in our sweat pants anyway, maybe give your loved ones some better, sweat ants. Some problems old, Tommy John Lounge, where Tom Agendas
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so I framed and guilty Eli Lake, fantastic, it's on the site. A commentary magazine, dot com, read it subscribe. It's the end of the year. You been listening this podcast now for nine months. If you haven't subscribed, subscribe, help us support arc efforts. Here we are a non profit. Five or one C. Three subscriptions are not donations. If you want to donate, we have a donate button on our sight, but we are not doing this sweet. We think we're going out. You don't make a lot of money and then go off on that plane flight that we can take once we get the vaccine off to Cabo and gray that our daughters wedding. We need you to join us at commentary magazine that calm as subscribers so as we enter this brave new boring by. Era. We have the wherewithal and the means to investigated to study at too.
criticise it where it needs to be criticised and to turn the page into way into a new people and a goal reality- and maybe you I like- will be there to tell us when the Biden team goes off, half cocked away has been telling us about how Mahler investigation went off half cocked how the democratic investigatory committees went off air. The the investor Breakaway went off, half cocked, the injustice is being done to maybe food less, but innocent public servants who didn't do what they were I too have done, even though we are very critical of Michael Flints recent behaviour in the last year. We had just before I know we're going by the. U know lunacy of what might have been saying about the election can be squarely condemned and is rarely condemned, but that has no bearing on how
investigated and abuses committed against him right, like an obvious point, but at least in twitter land. Seem to be saying that. Well, then, it must have been ok like well, you know, I mean these two things were sort of unrelated. There are there unrelated, and I think I know in particular when off like a like up like a rocket Michael Flynn for his disgraceful. remarks and combat the idea that you know there needs to be a coup to save the country from. From Joe Biden, the guy who limped out onstage on Monday night and could barely gets through his speech. That collapsing on stage I mean, let's lets you know, If we need a cooling off on him in November of twenty sixteen on his election I say this is a guy who lacks even a modicum of the judgment and has for quite some time.
let me only gonna take your judgment. That's all. I would say that he revolutionized out intelligence community when after terrorist networks- and then nation owes him for that- and you know it made a lot of sacrifices Ok, we'll take that in them he and then he got fired, and then he went much sugar so that you know it's hard to get fired. It's hard to be fired by Brok, Obama, dozen
justified going total arguing about being russian for russian spying? Well, that's true too, but he but the stuff that knowest criticising and for better without any more because he lent his services to a Russian on network concealed the money that he got from him in violation of american law and then provided that in that network and of its russian sponsors with anti american propaganda. However, he was railroaded adze eliza, that's the complicated part here is that he was all this is true, and yet he was railroaded em the railroading as what was the important part of that story in the most important part of that that story, but I anyway, so we Oh, we will bring this to a close on the on the never ending conversation haven't. I go Flynn and Donald Trump, I think it is. It is incumbent on us to to follow. Which Mcconnell lead and
say that the time to discuss this, action is now over we're not gonna. Do it any more? You know unless something really outrageous happens, we're just lock into touch this topic anymore. Dead enders can go be dead enders, but I think if we will, we are not only are we can only do park. You guys Chavez his landing his answer. Thank you very much. So Eli Lakes extra joining us every one go into space for no extra Stephen Abe. I am John ports. Keep the camel burning.
Transcript generated on 2020-12-22.