Bloomberg View columnist Eli Lake joins the hosts of the COMMENTARY podcast to give New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio a thorough reaming over his decision to threaten and single out the city’s Jewish community. That, and the exculpation of Trump’s former NSA Michael Flynn, on an exciting new episode.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily Podcast today's Wednesday April, twenty two, twenty twenty- I am John POD words the editor of Commentary magazine with me, as always senior editor, a green waldheim. How John Abe you are looking as we are on Skype and can look at each other You and I finally saw each other yesterday after six weeks of in in person you you are looking like grisly atoms,
The goal is hard on. You are you're looking like, and I am quite sure and then in about another six weeks, you will look like Z, like somebody in Zizi top grisly Abe, they're asleep, or a reg right senior writer Christine rose him high Christine who does not like grisly atoms? Yes, they and besides the debtor nor Rossman Sporting Lee Latin Lover Beard that works and looking looking startlingly no different from the way he often looks our guest today, commentary contributor, Bloomberg, opinion columnist and all around humorist. Eliza
I give the measure having me before he gets hurt. I just wanna say very quick thing for that: NEO conservative african community? I guess this podcast your website and the latest issue in particular, but the magazine has been a lifeline in a crisis. That often makes me crazy. When I read like Paul crude men were warm listening to envy are an or watching you know what to be the shop as level daily press briefings from Trump. So I just want to thank you for doing it five days a week, because it has been a really great thing for me and I imagine how many others, while thanking evacuees ladders very kind- and I should say that.
We ve been doing some digging into the data and this week, compared to this week last year, the podcast audience over the course of the week tripled, so we're very flattered- and grateful actually says me not this week, verses last week, this month versed in the last twenty eight days of this year versus the last three days, the last year in the same time, period tripling of our audience so so that is very heartening and we thank everybody Eli and everybody else who has found us to be a lifeline
I wanted to start by saying this, which is that I find myself in disagreement with everybody at all times. It's like it's like being like a hyper critical parent or something where you know nothing that anyone as is acceptable from you know, if there, if they work too. But then there not playing enough they play enough. Then there are working hard enough. All so, like I in every any given moment by mood shifts when I read something that says this is all overblown. I go, it's not overblown and then, when I something it says. We all need to stay home and do this for another year. I'm like air, you don't know what you're talking about, and I can't there is doesn't seem too, any middle ground that I find comfortable life yesterday saw very
a reader. A thoughtful reader sent me one of emails. That said, look it's like the flu here, the numbers the right flew like and all that, and you know so you look at the flu seasons, and so there were you in then the worst flew season, or was it at three? years ago. There were sixty to eighty thousand deaths from the flu in the United States. Terrible terrible you're. Usually it's more like twenty five to thirty, but, of course, that spread out five months and we ve had what appears to be about sixty thousand in six weeks. I dont know how on earth you can look at these two numbers and say that they are of remotely equivalent. We don't. We have it? This is an over. We don't know how long it's gonna last flew. Seasons are typically too many weeks in length we ve only been six so
And yet, on the other hand, when, when I, when I read people saying you know, this is terrible. Here's a photograph of three people who or who are standing five point two and feet apart as opposed to six apart. They should all be killed. I will I wanted. I want to throw something at the screen. Does anybody I may ass well, isn't that business remarkably, similar to the dynamic before penetrate the pandemic? just say this is kind of how you end up at they. Never never trump position right, they are the anti anti position I don't know that there's a flavour of self worth that's tied up in the experimentation on the state level. Like if you are devoting all your energy to castigating Brien Camp in Georgia, while ignoring Jared Polis, you're, just a hack our job, wholesome Colorado cause he's a Democrat and camp as a result,
the war of the worst, for me is the Rorschach test that has become of all the data coming out of Sweden, that you cannot get a straight answer from the press about what we're seeing from Sweden. The New York Times published a piece yesterday. It was pretty balanced, really wasn't that terrible. And presented a nuanced picture, but one that was more positive than negative, and there were two sentences that almost abutted they were separated by one sentence. Sweden will have to face its broad failing with people over the age of seventy M, went onto the statistics about the deaths of people over the age of seventy, the following sentence: that percentage is roughly on par with most other countries. How do you launch into a diatribe about how terrible this data is well excusing it,
the very next sentence, it's as others, some sort of it. You have to genuflect to the eye at least the moral them the moral. I guess obligation that you have to attack Sweden for having a lax lot. Lockdown policy, even the world, primitive, the same data and the data suggested. It's not you, it's complicated and can't really draw from conclusion one way or the other, but there is one third narrative in the press that is too exclusion of all others, which is that anything that is, that is anything less than a total lockdown totally cannot shut down to the extent that is possible. Sands emergency and essential
so now is a moral failure. It's as though there trying to stop people from questioning the values that we're trying to the competing values here between life liberty in Sweden, experiment in particular, we actually don't won't know until the fall and into the winter, because the whole logic from what I understand of their experiment is that they build up a little bit better heard. Immunity among their populations is that when the virus returns, as must the experts say, will they'll be in better shape, so that spike, that a lot of the rest of us will will experience a little bit more viciously. They will then it will not be as dramatic there. So even judging their experiment now is premature, at least according to the times report
and according to the swedish officials at their quoted there are a logical tests, suggest that there is the percentage of the population that has got. It is roughly the same as New York City, exactly which Lazard by the way, which is a bizarre three, because in that same story, this health, commissioner, Sweden and who knows whether this is a good laid out with good did. A skilled official about if we don't know anything about it, we don't know anything about Sweden's health stats and all of that says that their weeks away, basically having national heard immunity really with twenty five percent. Only twelve percent in Stockholm having that that somehow
mystically translate to a hundred per, you know like sex like the sixty percent. Ok, in a couple of weeks I mean maybe he's look, I'm not an epidemiologist, as I say, hey. That just seems like an absurdly optimistic projection, and so you know, but we don't know, since nobody knows what why did These attacks, whom it attacks and what its ideology is and what it does inside the body. The notion that it may be there can. Actions in the eight ILO among the nordic populations that make them less susceptible to falling to getting savagely ill from the disease or or dead. It's easier for them to contract, heard immunity, or something like that. I don't know, but the one interesting thing is that the official in question was being to hand
with kid gloves, as he is everywhere for making these statements that I'm not sure if he or it may, if you are making them on the stage with tromp, everybody would be like having a total cow, but so you have the Sweden thing. I have this sort of everybody is wrong and everybody is right. Everybody is wrong. This notion of comparing the flew to the virus, but we don't know how many people are gonna die from the flu that isn't the virus this season right I mean the virus, isn't the flu? It's a different disease. Therefore there will be death from flew that have to be accounted for and then it turns out, if you read the the stuff on the CDC, sound on site, the decimal flu or not
emergency room in the lot of this is some survey, data or extrapolations based on death tolls and the fact people are dying in a certain age without other, without other things, having killed them And then they a sign that through the flu, whereas you have so we don't repair, compare deaths at the same time last year and then make our assessment. You know John John Part of the issue here is that both sides of the argument have their wishful fantasies. If you are scared to open back up You convince yourself that we're gonna like this thing, if we just stay locked down a little longer we're almost there. We ve come this far the number: your falling would stick with it and I don't think that's actually real
I mean that what we're not gonna knock it outbreak at some point after that, we're gonna come back out and there's going to be some sort of spike if you are eager to reopen I think you go with this sort of idea that the virus is far less fatal than than we had previously thought. Therefore, it's ok to to reopen now I you know I I sympathise with the with the latter side. More than the former at this point, but you don't need to downplay the the gruesome this of the of the virus to get there. I mean, I think this. This has to do with a sort of not wanting to face the aid, the genuinely tough decisions. Ok, here's an I'm gonna get a delay in Iraq weapons as he's in it. This is what drives me absolutely insane. Yesterday, there's Napier report that was passed around from mainstream unless big name, mainstream journalists, just rent
over the the discovery that we had at fifty two infections associated with the April seventh elections in Wisconsin, Four hundred and fifty thousand people voted in those elections, there were thousands of workers at every pole, most of the pole worker, the bowl workers were more susceptible than the voters. That's I dont know what us consists of a spike, but fifty two out of forty four and forty thousand doesn't seem like it to me. It seems to me like evidence that individuals can be trusted to mitigate as much danger around them as possible and navigate this environment safely. Okay, so here's here's the data that I think I have an interesting, worse accessed effect. Ok, according to the CDC Destitute sticks right. This is from the New York Times totalled deaths and seven states that have been hit hard by the virus.
Are nearly fifty percent higher than normal for the five weeks from March A through April. Eleventh, remember, that's that's a through the April 11th, that's two and a half weeks right that doesn't even taken. What's happened between April 11th and April twenty nine nine thousand more decimal reported as of April eleventh in official counts of deaths. So that would indicate that the that this question of how many more people have died because of the virus who, having been hasn't explicitly assigned to the virus is like a total nationally of nine thousand okay. So We have this huge spike. You know yes or three times in New York City. What they were by this time last year, something like that. A hundred and seventy two percent and in New Jersey hundred twenty percent Massachusetts. Okay. So what does this tell us?
So then you're looking at this in your saying. Well, ok! So it's worse than the flu! But how much worse is it really the, flew, and this is where I think there is an interesting problem with the way this conversation has been conducted nationally, which has since we dont have any way of saying it is worth the economy shrinking by As it is now just in the last quarter, five percent and next quarter will be twenty percent. It is worth shrinking. You know that that too, that extreme degree in order to prevent a much worse death toll in
and I did states- are. We then saying that doing this adds to the extent that we ve done. It wasn't worth it because not enough people have died to justify it. I mean, I think, that's actually what the sceptics are saying, but of course they won't say it that way, because it sounds horrible and their right not to want to save their way, and it is unfair because we make, as people keep saying bloodless late, we make these calculations all I am so utterly. That's my eli. What's where what are your body? Well? Well, I'm a first of all. I you're totally right about this feeling of ping pong descent and I think that's what captured in this part, gascony commentary so well, and why I can I support that community because
I think the debts, and that's that was a condition before the pandemic in it's only been exacerbated. So what I found recently is that you know I like, I think you guys were sort of baffled by the fawning coverage of men of Governor Cuomo and there's this really good scandal. I mean it's like it's a good story about his initial order to send covert positive patients to nursing homes and how that problem. Exacerbated the spread of disease, a bad decision and then you can parenting As that with you know, everything the president did even the things that were good. It is that the end the world and then the prince, does something that in the grand scheme of all this is not the worst decision. He's made, but it infuriated me, which is he insisted on like Lucky Thomson signing his name to the check that out
It is our money to people in this an economic crisis and that and that so so you do have feeling of like. On the one hand, I think you said it a couple days ago. Now, where you said the press really, doing Andrew follow any favours by now covering him critically, because you know defunct, win win when when our republic is functioning right, the press kind of his this corrective and Cuomo is thinking uneasy. Yes and he's gonna be the next. You know vice President president, whatever He has been a lot of decisions that were terrible and he should be hang on a political class with us and that getting a lot of other issues. But on the other hand, it's like. I did find that the combination of Let me just that one move, I mean assigned the Czechs and give every, your letter telling them this is from your President Donald Trump. Ah, is such an egotist,
the massive mass of waste of time in the middle of a crisis. It is it's it's in line with him talking about twenty sixty election in these interminable pressing, this is an you know, he's not gonna change and using anyone is a better better than this. In this moment, even though it's, not the worst thing in the world, and I am not blaming him in and I like doing this game were is on his hands and also the crap, which I also hate by them idea that he's so he still is it still all about him when We need a leader deprives right, maybe bring us together is infuriating. Ok, so let's talk about from That is, that even more infuriating more Infuriating isn't even the word for it. So yeah last night in Williams, were Brooklyn there was.
A funeral and sought Marhaus hit em I gathered for the funeral and did not practise proper social distancing. And mayor build. The plaza announced first on twitter that he was going there personally to deal with this and then let loose the following tweet an hour later, my message to the jewish community at all communities. Is this simple that? time for warnings has passed. I have instructed the Nypd to proceed immediately. Summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives period. Now, aside from the fact that the sophomore revealed almost immediately after this tweet that the shutting down of the streets to make the funeral, what work the way they wanted it to work? I was,
and by the Edwy p d they set up. They set up. You know, pylons on the street, to close the streets off and and therefore Calot. It was an official a policy of the guy City of New York government to allow the sooner it to proceed. I just want to read the phrase again my message to the jewish community, calmer and all communities. Comma. Is this simple? The time for warnings has passed his message to the jewish community. Now I've thought that build the plaza was ultimately and am in periotome an idiot economy, Sandinista Lover, a a pot head, a person who is the first major
New York City, who doesn't really like New York City, that much incompetent allowing serve like homelessness to take root in and degrade the city allowing the subway system to degrade because of no enforcement of Quincy rules inside on subway platforms and a crook because he did. Hundred million dollars in say missing on a nursing home project of a lower side that went into the pockets of developers and that only through a mysterious court ruling was, was the plaza not indicted himself personally for this act of graft, so These are all the things that I have thought of build the plaza clearly and ridiculous, a comic ludicrous figure in his presidential campaign being an evil, barbaric
anti Semite was not actually on that list, but it has now gone to the top of that list. His message to the jewish community, Because there was one funeral in one neighborhood where people went to a funeral, even if they shouldn't have done it or done it in the way that they didn't. They went to a funeral. They weren't like having an orgy. They went to a funeral wearing masks by the way, if you see the pictures and how many how many Jews do think there are in New York City anymore, gotta anyone want, I guess the number one point: five million that's right at thirteen percent of the city's population, so there were a couple hundred people at a funeral. So at one point one point: two million
think as that is the actual number couple hundred people go to a funeral and the warning is to the jewish community, which, once by the way, did make up thirty percent of the same population. So even lousy, commie, anti semite politician, like worn Wilhelm Junior, would have been too chicken to say such a thing about a population of thirty one percent of the city but now, ok, so its thirteen percent and it's fine cuz he's also not gonna, run for office again, so if he were to drop dead today right now. I would
didn't see any tears rolling down. My cheeks well, and I just say that the other, the the broader context here is really also very important, which is that these spike and anti semitic, crime and Anti semitic, basically hate filled. Anti semitic. Crime has increased dramatically on his watch. He has had little to say about it and nothing to do about it, and so I think, when you see TAT ensued, the tweet also has to be understood in that context, because he's happy to call out an extremely small group of people who are practising a who were trying to honour their dead and turn that into a blanket generalization about a large commute, large and very diverse community. When that same community is targeted in a bye. Bye perpetrators, who would be politically incorrect to call out for their own member
it benefits community he's happy to stay silent, so I do that. That was what filled me with with blind rage when I, when I saw the tweet I just I just thought, have also bad enough, and that gives away the game right. I mean this is he comes from a political ideology and a particular outlook that is extremely sensitive to speech, the implications of speech, the implications of blue, we'll posturing and it doesn't have to manifest in negative outcomes immediately. You can foresee negative outcomes. This is just the bedrock understanding of the social justice left and it is entirely absent when he says hey all you, Jews and everybody else, but mostly you, Jews, knock off. It suggests that the deep down there is an antipathy towards this community that they do not deserve the kind of forbearance that would be
accrued to any other ethnicity or religious denominations thereof. Did I reckon enabling one more and am leal liebowitz for tablet wrote a very good scathing column about this, but you know who has done more to enjoy injury, Yorkers the Samar cheese attending the funeral. He's talking about or mere de Palacio himself. Who was very slow to pick up on the danger that the right of Iris posed to New York City and was in As of early Marge, encouraging new Yorkers to continue to the things that they normally getting couldn't go in a movie theatres and suffer. So I just wonder if some of this is just a bit of blame shifting on his part in a pretty pathetic example that have yet to nose point. There have been violation.
Of social distancing all over this town in all sorts of communities, their pretty well publicized earth, so called bottle clubs which her youths of uniting Europe gives a makeshift nightclub, hang out situation all round the five boroughs. He has not yet not signalled out any community before this. Ok, so he's in that part of the playgrounds of New York City were closed a month ago. Why were they closed because teenagers, not kids in flagrant teenagers were congregated in in large numbers in playgrounds, particularly in the Bronx and in parts of Brooklyn right. So we can infer from the locations of these gatherings that the groups of kids, who were hanging out were probably hispanic,
in nature, the nature they were hispanic of hispanic origin- I don't recall the blog, you or or Governor Como, who is the one who ordered the shutdown? Apart saying I have a message for the latino community. This has to end. I am in informing and everybody else, but the Lahti. Community. You know why they don't say because they would never say such a thing. That would never say such a thing about the african american community. Nor should they they should not. It should not be said it's not about what people's ethic derivations are and what's more again, this was not kids hang out a playground to be fair context matters. It is no. There is no question that there has a problem with spread because of the extremely community area in nature of hostages. Ray in New York City and in Israel
their lives are lived, committing the congregation, nearly everything they do as group. This is incredibly difficult for them. And on them there is no life outside of communal life in the summer Kennedy or in the consider community or anything like that to a degree that is very hard for secular people to understand so enforcing. These rules has been difficult for precisely this reason and rules work. Trot people were attempting to follow the rules at this funeral. Last there was not a person out in the street in these photographs who did
I have a mask on the question is once you arrive and there is nowhere to stand. What do you do that and if the cops were out because they had set the pylons up, why didn't the cops say? I'm sorry, there are too many people. You know you you you have to. You can't come in I don't know people do that, all the goddamn time they do it in Times square. On new year's eve, when things get too crowded, they don't let you get go somewhere when the streets are. Too crowded they didn't do it. There was an agreement between sought more and the cops last night efforts are being made to fulfil this approach.
And then the plaza went Hog while he is not able to run for office again in twenty twenty one. I hope that he goes and bit in disappears from public life. I hope that he spends the next eighteen months in disgrace and about what, by the way he hasn't deleted the tweet he hasn't deleted the tweet. He hasn't apologised for the tweet. There is nothing that he has done, except maybe sit in his room.
And smoke his bong until his eyes come out of his head, and you know you know, he's getting MSNBC ship away after by eminent it's just a better you're, probably right eyes. So don't think that's true the degree to which people in the city. I know that he one these large enough. These will ridiculously large landslide elections in which, in which the first section twenty four percent of New Yorkers participated in the second seventeen percent participated. So, just to give you a sense of how much the city you know really went out all out of elect build the plaza people hate him here and, what's more, the liberal will lead hates him. He also has the personality of a bath sponge. It just is not an interesting guy it as much as we have disagreements with Kristin Queen, for example, she's got a personality.
Interesting, I dont know build bless. Yo can carry a carry a quarter. Our I think he's of interest, I think, is interesting as an object of contemplation as a kind of ripe Herod, dogmatic figure of the left. You know I mean there is this. You know they're not to just actors ass and they, but since you know, but since basically he went Gauleiter Julia strike. Iran, us I dont, really met, but you know a guy who were coffee beans in Nicaragua and then merit use a lesbian. You know and then basically winds election as a as a as an Italian who was actually have to tell em at changes, his name
his father's name, and then you know basically uses his fifteen year old, half african american son as a blocking tackle to get himself. The with the mayoralty is a very interesting figure. I wouldn't the interesting political type of us at a certain moment in time that one one hopes we will not see repeated. That is, that an and what's more in a world in which racial and ethnic authenticity is so deeply important to everybody.
The fact that you know he changed his net. You know he he does not have the name that he was born with. You changed his name in his 20s. Apparently he did so because he was so gravely upset at his father's a suicide, but then, of course, is happy to use his father suicide as a as a political tool whenever he thinks it's helpful to him, he's a he's, a contemptible figure and end. He is done no good as mayor Now you know almost seven years as mayor and everything that has everything that has redounded down to his benefit are things that were set, ocean and continue to motion long after it was a he did. Not fare is fair. He did not do what he probably wanted to do and screw up the policing in the city, because that he knew if there were actual numbers
at that would show that crime rose on his watch as they have by the way in the last year, but you know get he's not running for reelection, but if he it, but if he had, if that at that, we happened. He there really would have been a kind of revolt against him as it is. There will be a revolt against this form of mayoralty I don't know who's gonna be Mayor MAX. I do know how that race is gonna, be run next year. That's when that's when the new mare will be elected, but whoever it is going to be an anti de Blanco figure. Somebody who will promise to clean up the subways somebody who promised to be were maintained excellence in the schools for example, or to ensure that these streets, scape of the city, is not over run by indigents opiate attics lying on the site Walk I'm I'm of a mind that everybody should be punished elect across the
or in anybody in office at this point deserves to be just ejected and live in agony just because of the nature of these circumstances. But I dont think that I'm one of many people who think that the polling suggests that everybody is quite content with whatever the extent to which your governor Mayor Municipal Poor figure bears performed here is performed relatively admirably in it, with the exception of the president, who seems to have lost whenever bouncy it had in the early days of this, and this epidemic, there's does seem to still be a rally, the flag effect for just about everybody else. I know I'm in the minority, but I do hope that everybody those really irrational with this thing and just punishes everyone, because I'm of that might love in the virus, the virus is gonna cover a lot of sins fur. They savvy politician right everything that they were doing wrong, that his that has come to fruition during the pandemic will be blamed on the pandemic, which, of course they could. They only had so much control over and I think
will serve as a cover for a lot of people and debugger everyone. I don't think so. I think I'll. Well, I mean there's a faint, but by our comparable. The true believer which tries to outline what are they personality tax that joint resolutions- and we right for one right now, because it's not people who have been had narrations of poverty in our sick of things, its people, who lost something in a very short amount of time zone we're looking at you know it twenty percent contraction, the economy, then I think you're gonna see a wave that in writing. We're going to see something. Hopefully we want to have a real revolution. We had asked escape. Alvin are republic, we'll have an election, were lots of people will be elected, but I think that that's coming. I am, I think, that the longer the deeper the pain gets,
it will be very bad for the political class layer, I think they can- they can say that there was nothing they can do and it's not fair, and indeed that will be the lie of the present I'd states if he loses reelection and how he will run for re election to how we will start running to become president again and twenty twenty four, which I think is a lead pipes since that you know Trump loses and he starts running again because then he can have rallies and you now be revive a fight in that that fashion. But you know all are punished shed, as the Duke says, at the end of at the end of Romeo and Juliet you know the just in the unjust alike, in in a moment like this, there is a there is a kind of everything went wrong here right and the Vienna, and you can't change this. Is the political you can't the political system can't change the people who run the ban
it's right. This is why everybody was so enraged and livid after after the financial meltdown that you know, the only thing I could do is throw them in jail But you know the politicians can't make people at banks were booby force that, or you know, mortgage companies or whatever. You know that that's my way, but people can throw politicians. That's what happened in twenty tat right. Sixty three Republicans one: how seeds against and six Republicans one sentence, AIDS that was all anti Obama, but it was also the throw the bombs out moment from two thousand eight justice. Trump, I think, was the throw the bombs at the White House moment from two thousand eight down shifted to twenty steam, because there was no reckoning for that. Oddly enough in twenty twelve. So that's that's! That's where I go and do I
do, you think will say I returned to the kind of crime wave that we saw in big cities in the six isn't seventies and eighties. Now what I mean, I think, there's a demographic problem there because remember the crime wave, as was also a species of the baby boom in Peru, our species, the baby boom Sharia there were just a large, a much larger population and a lot of people to commit crimes. And now it s part of the thing about the declaration movement is people are going to get out of jail, but there there forty five fifty years old and they're, just not going to be as efficient in in going back to lives of crime- and there aren't that many kit other just art that many- They also cities were much more corrupt and police. Remember me: there's a lot of things are added to it. By its I mean. Listen. If, if we're gonna see lots of people who were kind of comfort
the middle class suddenly becoming indigent or and without much, I'm just There wasn't a racing, hear the words he added. Action on the part of a lot of the social scientists class and members of that particular tribe who had assumed that poverty, bread crime were surprised to see rates of violent crime, continue to decline over the course of the two thousand and two thousand nine recession and never recover it would there was no direct correlation, but in financial hardship and precarious and incidents of violent crime. Maybe that changes, but it did not do not matter. Eliza. After the last great recession, I've been there and there was no crime spree in the great depression. Either I mean they Woodworth there were were spectacular unit. I tat lady cry. You know bank robbers
but there has been. There has been a bit of one now I mean I mean I think, we're like the city is double violent crimes. Were it was last year right right, but a, and there is that there are these kind of bizarre stats. You know like that. Subway writer ship is down Eighty per cent and subway crime is up thirty percent. So of course that would suggest Subway cry area now some somebody has become Is there no eyes on the street in the subway platform right so People can do whatever they want to, and there are these horrible stories about. What's going on with a kind of in and take over of subway cars and people, shooting people and and and then and having fistfight on subway cars, and who knows what the hell is going on. So there is that I mean, but but but that, but that is as species
of the kind of vanilla sky on the reaching of New York City of this over the edge of a world in which streets are empty. Lay or subways are empty late at night as a world in which people a bad people can work. There will what reasons that Europe became so incredibly safe. There was a kind of what you call it a kind of merging a fact, which is that as this as the city got safe and people felt much safer about being out and about at all times of the day and night, the city got safer because people were
about all times the night, and you know a street where there are people walking everywhere at all. You know at two o clock in the morning is the street, where a mugger is not going to feel comfortable mugging somebody, because that that mugging requires a deserted moment. You know so I don't know Eli Lake, you wrote a brilliant and very important piece for us on the FBI candle a couple months ago, relating to everything involving the investigation into russian malfeasance in between sixteen campaign, a one that. We did not touch on in that peace, but that appears to be the accelerating, is the treatment of a former national security adviser and in Obama. Administration had
the defence intelligence Agency, General Michael Flynn, right an Flynn monsieur visor pled guilty to two counts. I think of lines happy, I'm like every over three years and has been in this picture your limbo, I think, for almost three years, where he plaid but hasn't been sentenced, and the sentencing was to comment at some point. They say you know he's. Operating, and then they say is not cooperate. You anyway, The more one knows about the flint case that the the Scum ear it seems- and that was also true at the time that he was, but can you go, and so there's things seem to be coming to a head. So we thought- maybe you could give us some share. Your standing things up against late. Last week, the long dormant, Michael, an account on twitter reemerged with
think of it as a medium document of his sort of rescinded official rescinding of his Please I'm- and he had done it before, but this is the sort of formal document that went through the arguments that he made an finally serve a purpose. Record a lot of us. He cover this closely you earlier that there was pressure that was put on him at the F b I would pursue with just urban would charge his son with violating the for agents. Registration act because of some has nothing to do with Russia. If it was a, what slimy contract that line had with a businessman Who is it going to say? It was a cut out for the government of earlier on I think he's mean job, his main task is to produce a kind of Documentary that attacked a Turkish,
cleric. Who is now living in the Poconos in Pennsylvania, named Glenn to the Berlin it was once an ally of the islamist dictator of Turkey, one, but now is what his biggest rival and his followers were responsible foreign afforded coup in twenty six tee, and so as one would imagine, the turkish government is absolutely livid about this and would at some point like for the US government to send go and who is in the seventies now back to Turkey, where he'll be tried and likely executed, and that's probably never going to happen precisely because it will be executed and we have no faith The turkish justice system at this point sellers region beyond. I don't. I think will be very difficult to get any judge to agree to that. But that is what turkish government wanted. That's why they hired Flynn and instead of filing this under the foreign agents Registration ACT.
He found it under a looser set of guidelines that has a lobbying disclosure act. Now I say, I'm somebody who really thinks they should be better enforcement of foreign agents, registration act and that more people who are getting money from foreign governments, whether that's Paul, Manifest or tony Podesta. You know that they should disclose at and I'd like to see more enforcement of that have been met. For many years, on the other hand, it was standard practice in Washington that, if you could file something under the lobbying disclosure act. You would do that is opposed to the foreign agents registration once more, the foreign aid and registration until the the presidency was never enforced really at all. It was a bit was admit to have a sort of you were find it worse than you had a reef failure paperwork and that lacks this. By the way, the FBI's and charter that that will happen when Butler was the director of the FBI,
I M before him really free, so in some ways Mueller you could argue is responsible for the lax enforcement of Farah. It's really. You know the Justice Department under Republicans and Democrats have does not taken that law particularly seriously. So that's the sort of sub context, the context of the Flynn. We now. The other thing, of course we know, is that Flynn alleged and was in bed. Forget about one point by the FBI for something for Raver witches was, he poured out a conspiracy with Russia to influence the toy. Sixteen election there were certainly seen some very true doing things that were in the public record. He had appeared at this gala for the russian Propaganda Station Rte in twenty fifteen, where he sat at Vladimir Putin's table heat given a lot of interviews to Archie or given a few enemies. Archie were gets its pretty critical things at a time. Sort of
sounds more like what you hear from the russian Foreign Ministry. But if you re the entirety of one's remarks are we read his book that he wrote with Michael the dean you know. Might when's argument was. I would like, working relationship with Russia, so they can cooperate with us, maybe on IRAN and maybe on ices and Syria, and that I have to say version of that was John carries position, twenty fifteen twenty sixty. There was certainly the concept behind the reed said for the first time of the Obama administration out. Ok, so here's my question, if I understand correctly that what the reason that this is now flared up an end for the rescinding of plea- is that their there is more evidence or their Leah Flints case haven't plaid, so he plaid like he chose to please right now. That angle would exceedingly because they would have they would have charged his son.
And he was trying to protect his son, and he was also to yet in order to fight the case. He had to sell his home, and there was a lot of. It was a pretty rough time for him right so, but there was also this claim that he was being. He was the FBI. False fly I investigated him by interviewing him without letting him know that, as interviewed, there was without formal informing him that the conversation that he was having was for what was the conversation they were having with someone they believe to be a target of the investigation and that, ordinarily, when you are a target of a federal investigation. You are formally informed that you are such a thing in order to prevent you from false were you know what our unknowingly incriminating yourself
one word I have got is actually worse than that, because, first of all, the F B, I had the transcript of his conversation with kisses So there was not an app wasn't effort and learned what that somebody else Let me, then, it only back apples Flynn on on on November. Thirty of twenty Sixteen, if I remember right now lies with the sound of his Christmas eve, I think he asked later on these contacts with Firefox after a basket her right now, as we were told- and we think it's true right- that the purpose of the call was that the Trump the incoming Trump Administration was attempting to talk the Russians into not retaliating after the Obama administration kicked out. Thirty five russian officials, for interfering for whatever for firm for interfering between sixteen election, and basically, they said hold often where new Guy we're coming in, don't don't without doubt don't let's
go to war now at this somehow got trends muted because they didn't tell the truth about what they were up to this got transmuted into. There was a secret spied deal going on between and kiss lack the russian ambassador right and then they the violation of the Logan ACT, which is such a crazy reach. An abuse the power that there was a Logan ACT investigation, which is that which is an antiquated, lightning constitutional law that says, if your private citizen, you cannot make formal, Here we have the: U S: government and the incoming nationals dirty advisor during a recent transition, is cost. We in contact with foreign governments, because they are about to become the governor and the? U S amidst incredible that this was something that then deputy Secretary General Sally AIDS,
The EU was worthy of an investigation, and I mean lots of journalists. You should have known better went along with this crazy exe, a nation of things, so that was the kind of context of the FBI, interviewing my plan. I think, on his second day on the job where it was not we're investigating this. Logan actor. You know you should know that you're a subject in our investigation of what you said it just like. They already knew what he had said and then, even still, the FBI, agents who interviewed him. I think including Peter sprang up. I will point out this week at some point of these things are unsafe, I said that they did not believe that he was deliberately lying to them. When they asked him these questions, because it was the key thought it was. Griefing with FBI, guys in his job any You remember it and so and call me, I think, had testified to the
and judiciary Committee, along these lines that people who interviewed him did not think that he was deliberately lying to them and he was still charged with that smaller, believed that, if he can flip him, like you would mid level or mob person, you know, maybe you could get the dawn, no pun intended and so the idea is that he is cooperating in this other thing, which we were all shore must. There must be something there with russian living. There was nothing really, they are with luck, including you didn't upturning. Anybody so does raise this question of won't what will the investigation of Flint all about, and I think that the fairer kind of criticism of the Piper we have. Some on plan is where were you notice is fairly common practice with much lower profile people who don't have my their constantly? You know when they caught up in the criminal justice system. There is a huge effort to try to get in depleted the crime that they may or may not have committed in order avoid more
hold down the road and neither is something libertarian with similar preparing to complain about for decades. But in some ways you could say that, but I think it's obvious that there was also political motivation when it came to and so will find I think now, what this kind of now about is was their further exculpatory evidence such as the investigator in interviewers, didn't think he was lying and other things like that that we're not shared with his initial Defence council who dropped now. He has this city powerful working with him. And university I mean I don't know that the judge will necessarily by all of it, but I do think that there is a a strong, strong case agree with and in part the you wrote. I think this week that You know that you shouldn't really been investigated on the stuff in the first place, right,
so it raises the interesting example. The interesting possibility that that also that President Trump will pardon him in a part of him, I think I'll be the usual. You know how I found the juveniles aspects, but I think structured bar. I mean at them at a very low if that is all of this, if this narrative that you have laid out you know was obviously murky complicated all that. But if this are we laid out that that he, of course he resigned as national security adviser in any kind of some weird trumped up reason. That he had lied to MIKE pants and there or could know he no longer had the confidence of MIKE Pence because my Hence it asked him some question and he had that The way that the White House
clearly had re. I did that he was a political liability in the first three weeks administration figured out. They could ask him without admitting anything about russian pollution, or anything like that, doesn't add up and obey eyes. So, basically, I'm not a big fan of Michael Flints, but he was clearly hard done by everybody in this case and and has gone through one of these kafkaesque night. Yes, situations that nobody should go through. Right in its right. I think it also if this was the shoe was on the other foot in this had happened to someone like learning for years. You know, if you can imagine it happening to a Democrat. I think you would have. Much more about. Of course, sorry saying enough is enough what what the hell with the EP doing I mean, especially since now we we know that
no conspiracy to charge, so he had an flint that way. One of the reasons one says he was having to robbery because he didn't think there was anything there. So again, what was the purpose of all this? I mean why why wire and entities it does show a selective enforcement of certain laws. I'd like it. If you want to enforce fairer the Barney disrespect vat rate, but The fact that Tony Fidessa has not had any of these kinds of troubles that later, but these others have had an opportunity but ass to I should say, shared in some ways the contract with poor man afford for something of the sort, therefore, a modern European Ukraine, which is a think tank which basically a mask for the government of the ousted ukrainian President Yanukovych so
you know there was like a bald man afford was lobbying for this guy who turned out to be basically a russian puppet in Ukraine is not really bad and like yeah, it's it is really bad. So was you know? John Podesta's brother, had why one point now, it's no longer one of the most powerful lobbies- shops in all Washington. There was just I mean I'm sorry, but this stuff is by partisan. It was really out of control, and you can't just tell me that you know you're interested in the Florentines registration at work the ludicrous interpretation of the Logan ACT that to me is the real abuse which is. We now have a situation where the just department can find any number of crimes you man made. It grew in your life and get you to plead to something I don't want to live in a country like that. So ill. I like thank you so much on where we had a they're going to the bill to blossom story. That is worth mentioning for our audience
He has issued a qualified apology quote. If you saw anger and frustration, are you if you are angry frustration, you're right, he said of his tweet, I spoke out of real distress. People's lives are in danger right before my eyes. He proceeded to say that he deposit, as this for people who thought that he was singling out the jewish community, I can't imagine why anybody would think that, and then he proceeded to say that there are, there are many people in this town love to create confusion and develop a sort of damage. Straining all the density of a neutron, star and demonstrating also why he really meant to say what he meant to say. We haven't document briefly. They the whole strategy, the political strategy on the part of this mayoralty has,
division, racial and ethnic division along the lines of the virus. That's why they put out these lists of racial demographics that are more affected, are less affected by this disease, demonstrating that African Americans in Hispanics get worse and are suffering worse from it, and it seems to be that his desire here is to pit demographic groups against demographic groups in kind of Canada called out on it in this case, which is heartening in a way that he doesn't demonstrate very much contrition, for it he's just annoyed that everybody saw what he was doing. Finally, for the first time is the classic- I'm sorry, if you Send apology, not apology, we're urban, I don't understand how that's an apology at all. I was right was righteously angry. So if you, if you know so, I was right actually. Really, I think about it. I was right and Maybe I was emotional, but I was right to be emotional, and I I just you know.
I mean I guess his hasheesh dealer didn't didn't, show up on it anyway. So I'm I'm out here. You know what it's not fair, to say how she's dealer, I don't think he smokes Hasheesh. I think he smokes Marijuana which you know you're enables it at this point is much healthier I'll get there. You go they marijuana anyway Eli Lake. Thank you. Much work going on and thank you for doing. It really is a lifeline of sanity. For me up for you, I added. I've live sanity for four for us because, as I say like as I I don't know, what Noah enabled look like if they didn't have this hour a day to you now, you know, no way you baby,
would have saved you're like you would have a mohawk a belong here. That's next Ultra Travis pickle moments for aid Christine and now I've job outward skip the camel burning,
Transcript generated on 2020-08-03.