Today's podcast notes that liberal opinion seems determined to cast the left's refusal to spend $1 trillion because it wants to spend $4.5 trillion as some kind of victory—and asks whether that makes any sense. Give a listen.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Some regions Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily podcast today is Friday October. First, twenty twenty one, I'm jump outwards editor Commentary magazine with me as always: executive editor, Abraham, Waldheim Hydra Senior. Christine rose high Christine I John an associate editor, Noah Rossman, so guys as we have been predicting or anticipating the effort. Yesterday, too,
who pass some kind of major spending measure failed. The infrastructure, the hard infrastructure. One trillion dollar bill did not get a vote, as Nancy Policy had said it would that was supposed to be on Monday than she pushed it to yesterday, and there was no vote because she has often said she will not bring a bill to the full or if she doesn't have the votes and she didn't have the votes, meaning that the progressive succeeded in derailing the trinity in dollars spending package, because they want to use it as a lever to get other Democrats, particularly to Democrats in the Senate to agree.
With gigantic spending budget reconciliation bill of some sort that the price tag right now is a three actually dollars, but if it is ever to pass, which is really the subject of the show, as we go forward isn't gonna be anywhere near that size No, you noted in the fact that binds main political accomplishment this year, which was the negotiation of and the passage in, the Senate of the by partisan measure that got sixty nine votes, meaning it got nineteen republican votes including the Senate Majority leaders, vote minority leaders loud much more Connell's for the hearted for sure your bill, this was his major political accomplishable. Twenty twenty one has now been done.
Elder at least paused or held, or something like that. And yet there was an odd note of triumphal ism. Inv remarks of Democrats last night and in the coverage by all kinds of Nominal Lee Objective reporters who were who are cast with analyzing or bringing the news of. What's going on, I Capitol Hill to the american people. yes, apparently, were closer to a deal now than we have ever been, which is as the strange remark to say it at the moment when an impasse has become so apparent that its scuttled, not one but to opportunities scheduled opportunities to vote on this by partisan infrastructure. Deal it's a real trouble. I dont know why people are pretending as though it's not that those brave face they, you hear from leadership like Nancy Pelosi, were working were closer whatever that
There is a genuine actual, like a belief on the part of caresses and people who were affiliate with Progressive ISM. Under the guise of objective reporting, that they believe that they have a victory here. Another closer to achieving our goals are Think they ve ever been farther away the calendar is a real obstacle now the house is still in session. They didn't during last night said this is the same session from yesterday. Today is the day to get something past, otherwise they start running into of their away that their nine session houses in session next week the debt ceiling becomes Israel priority in the next week and that's gonna derail any negotiations over something new and there has to be something new when it comes to this reconciliation package. Yesterday we got news from in the form of a memo, from Senator mentions office that he has a ceiling in the form of one point five trillion, and this was taken as some sort of an earth ships
chattering, revelation that they finally have the number from this guy. But I read Amber saying one point: five trillion myself. It's not like this not like this was that was floating around and some had noted that even matter right, but a maiden had said something similar, though in remarks in March to George Stuff Annapolis. So it's not like anybody who is paying attention apparently absorb this by us most, as I didn't know where I got that number, but I got it and I remembered it and if we gonna start renegotiating this package again, it's not just like ok will take us down to one point: five trillion. You have to know what the heck your voting on, what this cost is associated with, what it actually does. It's gonna be a very complicated renegotiating process and, if their starting from scratch, one: it's gonna take us into Christmas, at which point it's Christmas. After that it's the men terms, and then everything becomes political and the notion here that they can just pick up this ball and run with it. After last night's debacle, which follows Monday's debacle. It strikes me as fanciful. This thing is on life. Support,
and this is gonna, be more scrutiny on what the bill actually would. Now there's a dead there. The age of it's just a number you know messaging is: is dead, How much will make a point about this? The triumphal is now that you're talking that it seems to me in a series of events, political events now there's Everyone on every side is Baghdad Bob about everything. Now I think that,
also a sort of new posts, trump reality about our politics. That's another serve depressing clownish kind of banana republic approach to crisis that we suddenly there were now in that's another agenda. Goldberg has a pet theory about that. The definite predates trumpets that the decline of parties nationally has been such that it's that they're they're, no they're they're just a nominal force now, and that has the centrifugal forces, let everybody who it adheres to those parties to anoint themselves press secretaries date there there acting as though their flags on behalf of these very weak institutions, because the institutions can't do it anymore, look Josh Marshall, who runs talking points, Mama witches, maybe now the- Most senior blog to have transformed into way going profit, making new site
it's a little bit of money, very impressive. It's now. I think, twenty years that the Josh has been running this site, and- and you know he he has become this a peculiar cheerleader going cheerleader force or like a progressive causes, going YO using his platform on twitter to talk about how to primary Senator Cinnamon Arizona. Punish her for her behaviour and that sort of thing he's been doing nothing. But talking about these bills. For six months and last night he treated the following quote:. If there's no deal tonight, that's good jamming, something like this- a vast historic consequence into the We hours of the night, for no reason makes no sense. They actually seen can we negotiate now, that's good! Let us take a couple of days. It's ok.
This is the only thing the Democrats have been doing for two months, yet that's that's just denial that tweet, that is like a classic better political denial because the progressives are literally dangling their hostage over the precipice going see. We meant it. We meant it and and Pelosi cave to them and and kind of stuck it to him. The moderates. No, it people who ve been following this whole debacle know it and I think, no one I did therein denial about. The fact that they might have blown up in the leadership doesn't want to acknowledge that. Yes, it is very clear to people who ve been watching this back and forth. I mean, and them too, to go from. Joshua was basically a dinner. He is here A progressive himself, you know unambiguously, but John Harwood, who I believe is where is he now? Is he still CNBC? no he's the White House corresponding of CNN. So he's the White House corresponding CNN,
You may remember, John Harwood, from the twenty fifteen republican debate debacle, where he was the symbol see house than basically spent the entire time, insulting the Republicans, onstage and raising a very legitimate question about why it was that he should be allowed to moderator republican debate. If his purpose was basically to just you know, discredit reply bookends, here's what he said last night reality check if democratic, passing a large economic package via both bills that they can enthusiastically promote. The appearance of mess, division, disarray in the fall of twenty twenty one will be entirely irrelevant and twenty twenty two won't matter
Even a little. That may be true may be true that if they can get it done, what matters is that they will have gotten a done but see they think they're not getting a done. That's what happened is that yet, if, if what happened didn't happen, but something else happens, that is good, then that will be good, but if what you're doing is covering what just happened or what is happening, which is failure and stasis, an and internecine warfare genuine divisions, both ideological.
regional and about the future of of the party, then happy talk is demented. Of course, the Democrats can pull themselves out of a nosedive. Of course they can pass popular bills and then drop unpopular. Aspects of of their bills, and all of that, like anybody, can do anything at any time. You know an alcoholic and quit drinking a drug attic can, can you know you can get off, you know, can get off cracking and become a an upstanding citizen, but it doesn't mean that it's going to happen simply because it can. In fact, the predictor of the best predictor of the future is the behaviour of the President recent past and what we ve seen is a catastrophic failure at them. As Democrats are they had a deal? They had a piece of legislation that everybody could support, which was the hard infrastructure bill. There was it.
He'll and then the progressive said. Well, we don't want you, we don't want Democrats to have this victory, because what we need them to do is to do the bigger thing that we want, and so we're going to point a guy at our own heads and say we're gonna blow, brains out so that we can the larger bill, and if we can get that, we can't get anything and then and then, and then there is the chief of staff to Jamal Bowman, the freshmen progressive from Westchester County tweeted, the following ass night praise be to all the progressive staff who won't get creditor headlines, but didn't their part in making sure we held the line. Praise be said Sarah derisive, like imagine that praise be
Because of that they did was hold. The line set this vote for this past Monday. The Senate passed this by the way on August tenth look at was a summertime house was on recess. What I understand the get back in early, I put this on the calendar and they ve been engaged in negotiations over it. For three and a half weeks, they put a vote on the table. They have to move it, they put another vote on the table. It would have failed the notion here that they can go back to the same playbook and it'll somehow pass absent some new series of negotiations, some pot sweetening some new deal is- is fanciful. They have twenty four hours now to get this done in its current adoration if they don't He's gotta go back to the drawing board. That's gonna take another week, another week, another two weeks and other three weeks who knows and then we're in the middle of the holiday season.
Get done in the middle of the holiday season. Unless you have this sort of real forceful presidency pushing it Allah Barack Obama, where we have reconciliation, pass on Christmas Eve and that's a sort of extraordinary circumstances, now they're looking there looking at and I don't see any appetite For that, when one is one other thing, one of the reasons I think we're seeing a lot of. Oh nothing to see here, it's fine. We still have another day. All signs look good. Is that remember just a few days ago a lot of the. While the moderate in and some others in Congress were saying- if only Joe Biden would get more involved in? Oh, he knows how the system works he could get in. There could really help negotiated deal. He did that and it still failed. So I think there's also a bit of covering for the administrations, inability and ineffectiveness and actually brokering a deal here. He think, as of this morning, he did
his influence, has not moved the needle at all. There is no reason why this camp ass right now there's no reason why this partisan infrastructural can't pass this hour. The fact that its not is nothing to do with the legislation has nothing to do with the president. Has everything to do with grand strategic visions within the party that around com? let our irreconcilable, but so- and this is why you it was interesting to me Now- is that so far forward for it to pass in the future and really for them to move forward in general. Doesn't party now have to finally decide which which force shapes it at this point? Is it? Is it the moderate party, Is it the Progressive Party, because this is it? This is not working? Is that this? This literally doesn't work for them? Well, I think we know the force of children if it's the Progressive Party, if a warrant the progressive
party, oh by the way, the notion that that that a trillion dollar infrastructure bill is the moderate course granted. It got it god. You know a third of the more than a third of the republican carcass to vote, for it is too loud pork so that, since its moderate, rather than simply being ideologically left, wing, but now it is again like outside of an emergency. It's like the largest spending bill in american history or something like that that doesn't involve raising taxes to pay for it, hundred billion dollars in new spending in seven hundred billion in old spending that's being rejected. Some like that, like it's a huge bill, and so. now the Oregon window is shifted so radically that we're looking at this and say. Well, you know that's it. You know it's really compact compact. It's a compact piece of legislation, that's really focused on infrastructure. I mean this is like
like a gigantic sucking money out of the U S, economy and then pouring through government out took in our union contractors and stuff like that, and we lit let let's face it. But having said you know watching them rats and liberals say that it's you know, you know it's pocket change, it's it's a con like it's not enough. We want more and we're not going to spend anything unless we can Then you know a whole lot more. It reminds me of this passage in Jeanette. Walls is amazing. The more the glass castle which is about her being raised by these incredibly irresponsible wildly impecunious parent. And she is driving along on the lower side of Manhattan, and she sees her parents, dumpster, diving, she hasn't seen them in a couple of years and their like they're down there looking firm stuff in dumpster, and she basically
shame kind of poles our goes to them and says. what are you need like what what's going on? Oh my god you're so awful. What? How can I help you and say like how much do you need to get yourself out of the hole the urine? and this is the nineteen eighties early, ninety major something in her pants. I well you know I think a million dollars, What do you know? I think you know, then we could really get out. We could really set ourselves honor you now on on a good course, as she's like, working journalists, you know a gossip columnist at New York magazine she doesn't have a million dollars doesn't have ten thousand dollars. You know she was give it. So I'm not I'm not. Comparing the Democratic Party to dumpster diving, I'm saying that there is a kind of delusional quality to this notion that you are in a position where don't have a consensus behind massive amounts of spending and when it
comes down to it and people say ok. What do you want like? Let's, let's get out of this, where we were in a dead end? So let's get out of this? Let's let let's trouble share a win and move onwards and what is economically then there like, while you know Emily, dollars would dare you know that could really we could do that that would really help you know an, and at that point you say well, you know you PETE A crazy, like I dont, know how to look at this, but also look at the refusal to refusal to support a bill that everybody in the Democrat Party would have different, literally no difficulties. wording on the grounds that it must die, because it's a cheap way out for other people. in their own coalition, not too to spend the giant amounts of money that they want to spend it. Some it's a head, spinning piece of logic,
at least when Republicans started ten the government in twenty eleven twenty two and onward a they were opposed. The party in power, not the party in power and be they have a ideological philosophy that sir. What we want. We came here to do nothing and what we're gonna do is try to make the government do nothing which is manifestly responsible gazettes. Actually, government is supposed to do some things and do the various things in an all of that. So it's kind of crazy to think that what you can do is stop it in its tracks, I mean you can but eventually has to start up again and then you look irresponsible stupid in this case This is the party that wants to spend money, and everybody agrees to spend a lot of money and then other people and then the Vanguard of the party says we're not going to spend this money we want to spend more money- and this is and if we spend
money, then we're not gonna get to spend more money will by the weight loss. quickly. Why not? That's the other part which I think no is even serve if your bank a win and then put a little distance between this and the next big spending thing. You might get the bigger spending then later once the elephant, you know once once the once. The excuse me the snake in the like, in the little prince, digests the elephant, I get the elephants the go through this thanks body and then get digested, and then you can it maybe even mother elephant- it's not gonna, eat two elephants at once, maybe so Ito back. Off, letting this happen and then pushing the giant spend
sing in early two thousand and twenty two. I don't really think it's going to happen, but you have more a greater chance of success that way than this way, I don't know I mean I could be wrong, I'm wrong about many things, and, and so in order to provide a check, it's my own sense of the conventional wisdom on a lot of things. I really turn to my friend, David Bondsman, his nose, letters, dividend CAFE, dot com and the DC today dot com from the bonds and group these three billion dollar by coastal man of financial management and services, firm that he runs gotta, give them cafe dot com. You can subscribe to David to news letters. He sent me a bracing corrective or observe like out. You know what is a kind of where he is trying to get people to understand his view of inflation. He sent me this morning. A kind of a preview of dividend cafe dot com which comes out tonight about
inflation, and his main point here is: if you really want to understand inflation at this moment, because he built is that we are in a deflationary era, not an inflationary era. You have to look at one very specific cause, and that is the worldwide shortage in semi conductors price levels. He writes are most problematic where something touch the semiconductor story and guess what a lot of things touch: the semi conductor, years of under investment into capacity, for it has caught up with us. It's always in forever the supply side, my friends and whether it is an electronics product or an automobile. The supply chains are turned upside down
almost one or one tells you what happens next. Prices go up with demand, stay study or grows a supply comes down period, so he has locating a specific inflationary trend within what he believes to be a global and long term deflationary trend. This is why it is such bracing material that he produces at that you see to data come ambivalent. Cafe outcome! Go subscribe today to the products of the bonds in group, the antidote to the intellectual, spaghetti of the financial management and services industry. So I dunno, maybe they can pull rabbit either had today and then all of everything we ve talked about will be in a wood, will will be negotiated and that we will have looked foolish. I'm not gonna play them We know this Mclaughlin Group Game and say what are the odds of that happening, I do understand
like basically, if you couldn't vote at one, this morning. I don't know why you're gonna be able to vote at one p m this afternoon, but am I missing something. Now? What does human nature tell you? I think all of the happy talk is actually destructive of you know if everybody, if, if the liberals and reporters on Twitter were panicking on behalf of the Democrats in saying, do something do something you gotta get this bill. Oh my god, then maybe there would be countervailing pressure against the progressive you know, organism about how wonderful it is that they held the wine and made sure that they didn't that the fear, the big the smaller building go through.
But I dont see an encounter railing pressure where's, the pressure, that's telling them that they need to pass this today before the house. Gazetted were so here's a question whether progressive thanked the next step is genuinely confused. They think they have achieved a victory here now. What Well, you know it's like yadda yadda yadda, it's like this. The Seinfeld Yadda yadda yadda right like there's a bill, and then you blew there. Who bells in you kill one build you make sure you kill one bill because you're, ok the other billing yadda yadda yadda you get both bills, for we too well. What the yadda yadda yadda right at this is what some of us went through. I gotta go back to the tea party analogy, but again, the tea party at least, was in the opposition when the tea party decided that they wanted to. Thank you know the debt ceiling in August of of twenty eleven
and a lot of us were like. What's your what's your end game here and they would say well, were fighting were fighting its roots fight, it were fighting and others who could be a fight and that were fighting and were showing people we're, not gonna, bowed down and we're gonna fight more fighting. And it's like oh cable, it's what's the end game here and that they could exit they couldn't get their similarly tat grows kind of leads, a government, shutdown and twentyth or team for three weeks, his goal being to force a bomb to withdraw. or word replace or somehow end Obamacare, and it was so where is shut? The government down in yadda yadda, yadda Obama's gonna is gonna, withdraw Obamacare and there is no. What, if you don't know what the yadda yadda yadda is, then you're not getting to the final stage. But there is a larger issue here too, that I think we shouldn't forget and that's that we're talking about
These progressives as Democrats and many of them aren't there democratic socialist. They see themselves as actually separate from the parties read their literature, which I do they are asked the goal of the binding ministration from the left. As we are from the right, they do not actually see themselves as a vanguard of the party. They see themselves as distinct future of dying, NEO liberalism, and I think in some ways there there that's why they could. They will claim a victory, no matter what? Because the disruption factor is what they right now, are you highly it's when they private. their own people with people like EO, see another, then they win the disruptive stage of this. This democratic socialist war on the Democratic Party is wherein it now and so for them any disruption of the system as it was and is a victory That is the primary obstacle before moderates and even Joe Biden. Even though he's endorsed the progressive position here in his driving the progressive position, we shouldn't
suggest that he's adversarial in any way towards the progressive tactics here, I think, he's the progenitor of them. Nevertheless, they don't care. If this fails data care. If the Biden presidency is not remembered fondly by posterity, they don't care, it would advance their position. They are adversarial to the goals that any new president's any first term presidency should be pursuing legislative objectives, economic prosperity, normal see all that stuff that you're supposed to go to the polls remembering reward for a second and ahead of a second term, their opposed to all of that, and until this White House understands that there dealing with an adversarial coalition enough friends not buddies. This is wrong claims group and you think, they're all the same team. They are not an until they get that through their heads. This is going to look increasingly like a failed presidency, will No, I know is, is sort of like
in the midst of a paradox, because on the one hand he saying coalition, is going to take the belgian presidency and on the other hand, he is saying that the that the logic of the coalition's actions follow the president's own lodged by is the one who said, I'm not doing one without the other, then he withdrew at he said this in July. He said: I'm not I'm not that there's no infrastructure bill without without a giant Bob budget reconciliation built, spent all his money and then and then you know that basically threatened the infrastructure bills, so they kind of backed off the rhetoric but Jamal Bouwman and and and Jaya Paul and the and the progressive then look up the mantle and went running with it again. We have this very peculiar situation Abe where they not in the opposition, they are the
governing coalition of the United States. They have the White House, they have the Senate near the house. when you had a revolutionary force of this sort like it like an internal counter revolution, for whatever you want to call it in the Republican Party, they came to Washington, because the idea was that we're going to be better opposing Obama, then the right, you know get along to go along losers, that day that you who were less radical than they, that they were placed in twenty eleven, but these guys are part of the aid that the free spending begun. when the coalition that is in charge, so the paradox comes entirely from by I mean this is this is the paradox and in his head and in the end you know in his approach to dealing with this I mean you know, it exists, five: the difference between the way
Establishment Republicans looked at the revolutionary force within their midst, and the wave Democrats did the same as we said Republicans when they, when they were met with with Israel similar disruptive force. The ideas know these guys are bad. There, they're they're tearing down our project the the approach among liberals. To do. You know if you're a moderate level to people at the swat it is is there the little too idealistic there are just a little too in a hurry there, their hearts. the right place, but they don't understand that you have to go out and slow. They have held up in this up to this point, to recognise that, no, they are not there were there not dealing with people who are just in the hurry in a hurry to achieve the same goals as you they're, seeking to replace you so wish.
Why? For them, the end game is lit more down the line, it's a little more long term there looking to replace them. So I want to talk about a slightly different, a crew of people, that is to say the kind of never tramper. conservatives, former conservatives, let's say who have basically Joe. Waned, because they have learned so much and got gotten soda distressed by by the. evils of their public and party over the last five years. They ve effectively joined the Pardon coalition in part because they want to make sure that if fineness x is success, then Then Trump can ever re emerge and there can be a real reckoning, and all of that- and I refer to date to two Abed pieces by two old friends of mine, one of my three or four oldest friends, David David Bergson than you Times and Michael person in the Washington Post, so David
his writing, but how we need the four trillion dollar spending bell, something you know if you had put me if I I went back and a time machine and I went back to ninety ninety five when, when we were working at the weekly standard together- and I said you know what twenty six years later, this is what you're gonna be writing I hear would say our you're crazy person what the Hell's, the matter with you. Of course I would never write that, but here we are and then there's my girlfriend George Debbie, bushes, chief speechwriter, and all of that who says, though I understand that the GNP must be then beaten regularly for its own good, I'm not used to calling for the other side, the american politics, but I'm doing my ass to master the complex boys imaginations of my new team, the first democratic stratagem. He is now complaining devalue, your own accomplishment, so he's looking at this insane sent a passage of the infrastructure package.
is an achievement that alluded by his predecessor and a testament to his negotiating skills. So what did Democrats do? He asks they raise the expectation of a three point: five trillion dollars social spending bill, guaranteeing public impression of failure if they only get the infrastructure package. Second, demographic dictum muddy muddy your message, third democratic dictum in calling One revolution can be clarifying calling for several simultaneous revolutions, meaning a bill that features Universal Creek, a dental benefits and Medicare and extensions. That's how Chow child tax credit, promotion of agricultural conservation, improvements, veterans, affairs, hospitals and Allowance or Medicare to negotiate. prescription drug prices to four years of community college, yadda yadda yadda right. That is that's too much it's too much, and you need calling for one revolution of clarifying calling for several simultaneous once the abbot,
patient prioritization. So what does he want? He wants them, of course, to focus on what he wants should hope, which is they should just run on the child tax credit, because that's that's the thing that he thinks is great and that's what they should do and he's very, very upset. So what struck by here is this kind of it. What you might call serve the NEO liberals right. These are like these are the people who left the concern of coalition because of their discussed at the eighty logical extremism of out? Where are there on coalition in their party, went and they serve joined up with the other side and what they're and here they are, and they just joined up, they just joined up and what are they doing it in this case baby? It's a little like joining up with Nixon in the Nixon like pursues. Is that date aunt like crazy in nineteen, seventy three one thousand nine hundred and seventy four. They're, like what are you doing, why are you doing this to me? Don't do this to me, be enough, be the part
I want you to be well in a guess what sorry yeah! Sorry, if they're, not it's, not the that's, not what's happening here. Well, I persons, peace in particular with frustrating. As I read it is someone who who thinks that with a candy store is gonna open in an hour and we're gonna go, go and select some really delicious pieces of this, and that the other- but in fact with the progressive one, is to kick the that is, why didn't lose the whole store and he's like? Do? No, no don't do that. That's too much, but to the early warning and I'm gonna be a one note figure unto his pack has, but that the fact that person and Brooks are on the side of arguing for bindings version of things helps the progressives, because that they can say in the same way that the trunk folks said about the Republicans and even the money,
Republic insistence that the party they can say they are all in this together there all her up there, all kind of the eldest are going to do their thing, which is against you get. The populace message on that end can is very powerful when you can point to all these people joining forces in the same way for the progressive they can say, look its David Brooks did. This guy's arguing, as we know it's gotta, be corrupted that so we ve gotta go on radical roses column is revealing in two particular ways. One. He says that these buildings I'll be evaluated on their merits, should be evaluated on their intentions, quote the democratic spending bills are economic packages that certain moral and cultural purposes they should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. He goes on to say the following: sentence which no conservative, whatever allows escape their lips quote: statecraft is soul craft unquote. That is
Paradise, manic, understanding of how government should function, not how it does function, but how it should fund that is not native to conservatism. Even more progressive conservatism predates a bold water right. Variety that we were in the remnant of here too. It is an idea of what government is capable of. The conservatives. Understand is flawed fundamentally at root and leads you down cognitive called a sex that produce unintended consequences that result in govern not functioning being dysfunctional, producing a variety of unintended consequences. That government cannot even addressed that civil society must address it's a misapprehension that, I think is it is. It is a fundamental distinction between what what a conservative
is and what a progressive it I mean I want I want to make. I think it's it's it's important to issue, one proviso for what you're saying, which is that the phrase statecraft his soul craft actually comes from. George will was a book that George will wrote in nineteen eighty three, which was his essential attack on libertarianism. It was the idea that whatever whatever government does, is that as a As far as an expression of America's communitarianism, collective ideas at had is a moral act in one fell. or another, and You therefore want government to do things that that strengthen and abide by a proper morals, rather than rather than improper morals, and it's a problematic book. It's not a successful books, they craft the sole graphed, because it is very vague, but but
You you can certainly say that you know what what government does has a moral frame. One of the reasons that we oppose things look it's very simple. They were spend three and a half million dollars. There are two reasons to oppose it or three one is it's too much money and we can for it. The second and more important one is. It's not going to work with this whole idea that David expresses here, which is that the intention is to read dignify The lower middle and lower classes of the United States through government large ass is knocking. Work the definition of man. This is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting same result, and we have now had all ninety years of new deal style spending and policy that has done nothing. Two in noble or
more a wise words save you know the save the american people. Morally, that is not, as it turns out that, maybe that's a mistake that government attempts to do such things, because the unintended consequence As of this kind of spending are vast and gigantic, and because their unintended- and they are so almost unknowable- we don't really know what's gonna happen, but we have enough experience to know that allow it, isn't gonna, be good and sulphur David among other people, to say this is important because it sounds good, it feels good and it says I care about you. That is really a. We have to go back there and then learn this lesson all over again. Really you know, I mean fine, if that's if here
three, just as a bad, an endless loop and a constant cycle of the same things over and here again, the eternal return as in need each. It then fine, but you know I serve, expect better from people who live through an themselves, were exponent of a different opinion not to fall prey to the fantasy that this kind of thing is gonna. Have these positive consequences about Maghreb of consequence, that that's that that fantasy and the glossy trying to give on it is cover for the Biden administration. I think and again this sound cynical, but I think the progressives that are that had been focused so much on the number of his nose said. Not the policy number first, how big big, bigger bigger is best they're doing that this is about or in flexing in showing that they can control a party that they, as the ape said eventually wanna take over, and I think what what's disappointing to me about the person and boxes Collins's. It they're doing the one thing that I think conservatives have a habit
good, inconsistent record of doing, which is reminding the kind of utopian feel good. This is of good moral policy types that, even if your intentions are the consequences might not be, and that is because you have to look at the tragic side of human nature, not just the optimistic when you have to assume that some people are gonna behave to grab power, be selfish. You don't manipulate the system in a way that is just, unfortunately, part of who we are ass: human beings in the government, by codified in throwing a lot of money at certain interest groups encourages that at a scale that is very difficult for the individual, who only has his or her individual freedom to combat and that, of course, arguments about the welfare state. There there's all kinds of social policy programmes where we can see, as you said, job that has played out over decades but I think in this case there are giving moral cover to the Biden argument. I dont think the progressive really care about that part of it.
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one subscription this is their best offer anywhere in its only available to US customers for limited time plus free shipping. Every order get fifteen dollars off at neutral dot, com swelled and beauty are a farewell dot. Com promo code common, Terry Ebby, now, I made that analogy to the two Jeanette walls, his parents and the glass castle, saying you know, give us a million dollars and maybe we can stop dumpster diving I note that, for example, in persons, peace and I Abreks has mentioned the sauce on others- have too that the unambiguous The popular thing, among you know, say, unorthodox conservatives are concerned who believe in more state action than others, as well. As liberals analysis. This idea that the trial tax credit, the giant expansion of the tribe tax credit, which was part of the Corona VI
Emergency bill should be made permanent. That's like three thousand dollars a cat or something with a witness another suspension for kids under five or some like that, and that You read these things and it says you know this is The pole, four million children are forty million children. Are fifty billion children out of poverty? It has done so it did so. In the last year, there were pulled out of poverty because of the child care too, scratted and the reason I bring up this genetic, All the analogy is again what bill of goods we being sold here are the reasons that you don't just give people this child tax, credit and say. Ok here it is, is that it's not gonna pull them out of poverty, that doesnt work. that way chances are that money will be spent and a lot of people are gonna spend it. Foolishly and recklessly, and with no purpose that will do
them any good. It's like winning and the lottery or something like that. It's like you know Suddenly you get this kind of windfall. Do you invested to pay down bills due to its unclear? What you do that, but we have enough- experience of human nature to know that the idea that it will be applied properly to lift the children whom it is directed out of a straight laced power. The conditions is not really the way this goes, but we're supposed now to believe the human nature is. splendid and that were simply just supposed to again expect that there will be a different result when history tells us otherwise. This is why having Brooks his argument is ultimately this attempted trying to ennoble vanity, because if the idea is just to praise the intention, then you don't care about the results
right. It's like also great you you it's important that people be known as caring, regardless of of the detriment that that their attempts to care inflict on other people. That doesn't mean that's, that's it. sort of. Like you know, it's it. It's a limousine liberal. You now approach to things. You know it's like you You know that, but let it be known that I'm throwing money at these problems at that and that's it and that's a good thing that that's that's good for the Americans well and requires a noble independence which you right out something in the american way, conservative or mainstream liberal. That was ever something that one touted as a benefit. It was but should be a temper, very safety net. Now it's ennobling as a permanent thing and the way we're talking about us here, a sort of reflective of the of the demo
paradigm! This is not a NATO list. You be I, it is a tax credit. You have to pay taxes to be eligible for this issue do not get a refund at the end of the year. You have to pay it back. The IRS is going to come and collect this money. When you file next year, it's going to come as a big surprise to a lot of people We should note back in July. I dont know whether this is just a pinky pole result or not, but morning consult and political found when they asked whether this child tax credits should be made permanent, just thirty five percent, so that definitely are probably should another. Fifty two percent said probably
or definitely not. People are not saying give us free money forever, but you know this that the fact that he even makes tries to make this argument brings up the idea that I think a lot of the old should analyses and basic understandings and objections to a lot of feel. Good policies have really just fallen by the wayside that these things are not discussed. Anybody else, Gent Saki, said this week that tax rate businesses won't pass tat x rays on to customers in the form of higher prices. What you know this is this is another sort of thing like we're there is no understanding of you know the history of a bit of that happening. You know automatically. You know this is its. Is that we're we're at this place? Were, I guess all the basic objections have to be re, articulate
Pretty much I mean that the arguments never end and the excuses never never end and the bad faith arguing never end, and then it turns out that enough people make bad faith arguments and then structure the bad faith arguments in a way to caress them and try to make them can form with some observable reality. That is modern monetary theory, which says that you know twenty billion dollars and dead isn't debt. That spending is spending that that the now that you can spend three and a half million dollars in your actually spending nothing like that is an and people. Genuinely argue this. You know that it's that term. You know that bastardize or much bastardize Orwell quote which is that in some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them, and so you know that's that
the partially, where reliving Eminem reminded talk about a weird anecdote to pop into your head, so forty year ago, thirty, seven thirty, eight years ago, when I'm like twenty three twenty four twenty five, I'm working in the washing times. I write and an attack on. We are the world the song. We are the world. Ok you're a monster. How dare you? While I do that? Because you know where the world was it was. It was an effort to support. like send money to victims of the ethiopian famine, and I said this is. Foolish misguided efforts, because the ethiopian famine is a man made famine is politicize. It is a famine that has been used by the dictatorship in Ethiopia Roll a civil war to control a population to ameliorate them it so that the government consult can consolidate power if you give money
to it you are actually a your money is not gonna get anywhere. We wanted to go so you are have there's an opportunity, cost and beer, covering up this fact and therefore allowing allowing them he was in ethiopia- to evade moral possibility for there. You know thereby Internal genocide almost and I was invited onto cross fire in this in the early years of Crossfire Pappy, Canada and Tom Braden do Canada on the right and Braden on the left. So I go on to talk about this and Braden says: what's the sore and I eat up later, they they so I die. I lay this out, as I had much more united dated, might fingertips about how much money, what where the there was food sitting on docks. That was rotting because it already been delivered, but they were fusing to ship it out tab in out from the capital, and all of that- and I finish little peroration, which was like full of facts and Braden, looked at me and said he was a
querulous old man at this point in said, mister pot horrid. What's wrong with helping people. I mean that so in the end, when you get there onto it. You're like look, this is gonna, foster dependency and it's actually spending it's gonna increase the debt of the dead and the national debt that passes on to our children. This and then the other thing, and then the repast is. What's wrong with helping people and the answer is well you're, not helping people, but you think you so you so this is for you, it's actually not for the people, it's for you Will you say it's the vanity right right want? The other anecdote is that we didn't. We haven't done, and we rarely do this until we had kind of structural failure or long term social spending on these sorts of issues, but I was reminded John, when you were discussing this at
the anecdote. I recall from that first wave of checks at every bit. It got during the pandemic, which I you know even we said you'd because of the force closures of my shut down and people losing their jobs. Kimberly argue against that. But there is a will. There is a deep dive into crime in Philadelphia and I want to say it was probably come, but it was one of these, like big long stories about cry, I'm doing the pandemic. There was a little fact thrown in there that I haven't seen reported elsewhere, and that was the very high number of people who use those checks to buy guns were happy to tell you. This was great. I got this money and I went out and then I could afford several guns which they then used in the commission of crime, and I thought her never cross me. Find cuz? I'm not going to go, rob a bank but like, of course it would. You have money, free money, you're, not necessarily going to go, use it to enroll your kid in an enrichment program, you're going to do what you've learned to do to survive and that's not always good for
You made an important point by saying that you know we supported as a moat. Most people dead the idea that covered presented a unique emergency in the we know a moment at dire moment in the world economy. In the unemployment rate, one opted out of thirty percent twenty seven, some some insane number at a given point. Me idea was just open the spigot whatever you can- and you know, I think one of the cleverest things it was done. What was the pope with Apparel Protection ACT which effectively privatized unemployment? that is to say that their say that money was given to businesses so that businesses could keep, would not people off they could they could have continuity of employment and and at this was a much more efficient way for that money to be delivered rather than going to real from government and two hands where people may not make might not have the modality to collect it.
The whole point about that was that it was an emergency emergence is happen rarely they are not there there unanticipated apple and you're, not supposed to anticipate them. Don't know what they're gonna happen and then you need to tailor specific measures to solve the problem that there, because it may be different. The next time And here we have a trial tax credit that was another way of opening the spigot, particularly as you say Christine, because of the nature of the employment and unemployment problem and the problem with what to do with kids in about kids, when schools were closed now that it's, by definition, not supposed to be permanent, its it is an emergency and you spend certain types of moral understandings about dependency and not only is it not ennobling to be so. Courted by government in that way, it is, it is Morally, a debilitating
it removes agency from adults. It makes them. It makes them feel powerless over that. You know that they can change their own circumstances. Are they come to rely on an external force to keep them going rather than have the pride and the dignity in supporting themselves and making do for for their own. And that's you know that that's just the the world, as we have come to know it, and- and we we had- as I say, almost ninety years of experience with that, some of the deleterious consequences of that kind of direct government support and yet it doesn't matter because there are people who are just morally committed. the idea that we should all live as vassals of the state. Let me just finish up here with our final sponsor Express Vp N, you, your browser? There can be no more, I know you have, but a lemon
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That's it. I'm gonna people go to this. Calendar of younger Virginia West Virginia I would like you yet those ok to early Is it a hardly anything this? Does it read what is required It is a remote. They related to exercise, says now. You know you're driving a car on a road and trees. Our over you and their changing color you have to Tell him you're beholding s of your you're you're. You're seeing riots of orange and yellow and read and said you know what a glorious thing nature is to grant. This sounds like a new interest of mine. this is amazing to me. You're, like you, ve, never gone driving in the fault of sea. To see the following. I have I just I didn't I didn't literally it's the term leaving. I didn't know. Ok, ok,
so apparently you're not going leafing, not an and I'm not either Christine. Are you going going, leaving you you're, saying that you're saying that in the below the Mason Dixon, It is too early to its night, but they're not quite changing. Yet it's it's a little too early here. Ok, now now leave peeping from you know. What's going on in central New Jersey in re, leaves and color that very tippy Thompson. The canopy are just starting to talk right now, so there's no real hamburger. So using a lot of technical lingo there. I think we have a secret leader utility top of the canopy wrecked, an absolute scientific, yeah. Ok, Apparently, no one's doing anything was weakened. Do I gather that nothing fun doing I kinda weird ok. Well, for the first time in several months, I have actually written a newbie review, which you can re it'll be
to re later today, of at free beacon, dot com of the of the new bizarre. Supernatural superhero supervillain version of the odd couple call Then there will be carnage. I don't think that it's going to be of all that much interested many commentary, podcast listeners, but You can bet it wheels were teenage son, so thank you for yes, sir. You, your beer, you're you're you're, very welcome its it's not good, but if you want to see a meal Simon Comedy in the guise of a law we about us about about a demon and a man sharing the same body. The theme being can two creatures, one from outer space and one for me share body without driving each other crazy. Like the opening of the odd couple, this movies is for you,
so given the fact that everybody looks very puzzled on our honoured on our zoom here, at the possibility of even thinking By doing anything this weekend, aside from throwing people around like Christine's gonna. Do it and make it a studio. I will love. Did you all a very happy and contented weekend it? So I won't be back on Monday for aid procedure. Now, I'm John but words keep.
Transcript generated on 2021-10-15.